Am I the only one worried that the right-wing is already taking advantage of the fact that the left has become a vacuum of intellect, and is now re-embracing intellectualism on its own terms?
I’ve seen multiple IG pages recently that talk about the literacy crisis in America; however, a good number of these pages/accounts are made by right-wingers/reactionaries. They use very blatant dogwhistles like “classical education”, “great books”, “virtue of the Ancients”, “glory of Western Civilization”, etc. etc. They talk about getting kids (read: they’re kids, the kids of right-wing elites) to study Plato, Xenophon, Aristotle, Cicero, Augustine, Aquinas, etc., learn Latin and Ancient Greek at young ages, and pump their heads full of political philosophy. Yeah it’s indoctrination but still.
My assumption here is that the right-wing in America is trying to regroup and reorganize now that MAGA is clearly crashing and burning beyond repair. A lot of the rhetoric they use makes me think this stuff is coming from either the Heritage Foundation, Claremont Institute, or both.
But I think the deeper issue here is that the left has no way of effectively countering this, assuming this is true. Especially in the past five years or so the American left has almost entirely dismissed intellect and intellectualism in favour of appeals to emotion and petty in-fighting over covid masking, whose identity makes them the most marginalized, and whether or not going to the gym is “fascist”. Hell, someone just posted a screenshot from Reddit arguing that narcissists and psychopaths should be seen as “oppressed”. Why? What’s our antidote to the right when the right uses literacy and philosophy and such as a means of implementing fascism (or fascism-lite)? The American left seems to be taking the view that intellect is either 1. oppressive (because it inevitably creates a culture whereby smart people are upheld over stupid people) and/or 2. useless, because ethics are allegedly already embedded within human genetics and therefore all we need is intuition (Kropotkin’s Mutual Aid book is often invoked here). Why?
So what should we be doing in response?
getting people to read POLITZER'S "ELEMENTARY PRINCIPLES OF PHILOSPHY" should solve it methinks
>>2932284rightoids and intellectualism are just incompatible full stop
>>2932302They will put up the façade of intellectualism though.
>IG pages recently that talk about the literacy crisis in America; however, a good number of these pages/accounts are made by right-wingers/reactionaries.
They're on instagram, of course they're right wing.
All the leftists concerned with the subject that might've used instagram in the past are either writing articles, made a personal website or moved to a Pixelfed instance.
imagine you are a prolecattle, a right wing chud comes and tells you to read all these classical books, many books, old, weird ancient stuff
now a leftist comes and says: "just read marx bro"
who do you think the prolecattle will follow?
>>2932309prolecattle will go back to scrolling instagram
>>2932309You have to prove that Marx “solved” philosophy though, which leftists don’t do a very good job of showing.
>>2932309Plato is way easier to read than Marx though.
>>2932319>saying “don’t commit incest because the baby might be deformed” is ableist and eugenicist as fuck, you shitlord!Average anarkid.
>>2932309You can’t properly understand Marx with light understanding Hegel, the British economists like Ricardo, and Proudhon.
>>2932314>intellectual rightIf it wasn't Heidegger, Hobbes, Nietzsche and Plato, this would be an oxymoron.
>>2932322To be fair, I’ve seen a tweet saying exactly this.
>>2932303that's been the case for decades
>>2932284the left wing is not a vacuum of intellect. rightoids don't read the classics, they don't read poetry, they don't read literature, they don't read philosophy, they don't raise their kids to do these things and they aren't going to start doing that. Left wing people will do these things at a much higher rate. Even when there are exceptions on the right they invariably wade into these topics to look for blunt instruments wielded in bad faith for their already decided upon notions. They don't dominate this space and they never will, they mostly just try to define that space to be entirely what they think is good and claim everything else doesn't count. Just today I saw a thread on /pol/ where they defend hitler's art vs contemporary artists, and it's like looking at a building development sketch and they think that's better because it accurately represents an image of a building while art that creates and IMPRESSION of something is beyond them, they can't understand the intention or have that evoked from looking at it and have no interest in that in any case.
You are creating a problem entirely out of whole cloth, the space of being well read and versed in culture and history is a space already dominated by the left wing. It's mostly still to this day a field of battle between the left and liberals, the right wing are anti-intellectual and outside of this space. It's like saying a carnivorous ape that bursts through the window and kills everyone else has taken over academia, but there's no academia just a dumb animal and wreckage.
>>2932284>Yeah it’s indoctrination but still.Well they want a cultivate a supposedly superior and aristocratic type of person.
>But I think the deeper issue here is that the left has no way of effectively countering this, assuming this is true.Well first let's look at the contradictions of what they're doing and try to analyze it. I think one of the dangers of this for them is they just get up their own asses too much, get too obsessed with their own abstractions.
>So what should we be doing in response?Idk build fusion reactors or something. I saw some of these trad guys react with some alarm to Mamdani (I know, but still) giving out tens of thousands of free opera tickets. Like that's what conservatives should be doing…? But they're not. They can't really do that and might be disturbed because it's like nyghas are now going to the opera, oh my God. Mommy I'm scared. Because it'd no longer be a superior status thing. See that's another contradiction here because they view what they're doing as cultivating an elite which can put everyone else in their place, while an interesting thing about socialists historically is they often were interested in the classics but they wanted to open that up to the masses as a way of educating people to better think through problems and being better equipped to do stuff. This is why building libraries was so important. You know in Tsarist Russia it was difficult to actually get access to a library and Lenin satirized that while writing with admiration for the New York public library system. This is a very Enlightened sort of idea.
>>2932284So much of this problem stems from the past 50 years of the left embracing postmodernism. PoMo doesn’t tell you the truth, it makes you question what you’ve been told is truth but it doesn’t replace it with anything in return. And it gives you no method for deciphering what is true and what isn’t.
I think a good example of this is when comrades think they can “debunk” something simply by pointing out what power structures it serves, rather than debunking the statement or school of thought or whatever itself. Saying “XYZ is ableist/sexist/racist/colonial/queerphobic” is a good start but not enough; you need to show how the epistemology or methodology is wrong, how the conclusions are wrong, how the “facts” are wrong, and so on. You’re not really finding truth, you’re just moving from one convention to another.
I received a classical education and it's what primed me for marx and communism. Right wingers in America will never embrace intellectualism in any real way because it directly undermines the sort of faith based stupidity that large sections of the conservative coalition rely on and desire.
>>2932384I’d add to this and say that if it’s so easy for them to debunk Marxism why do they want Marxist-oriented literature banned?
>>2932385My flippant, off the cuff answer would be because they can't. Honestly though any time I've read a supposed debunking of Marx or Marxism it's never been Marx or Marxism that they're "debunking," but always some mud pie level shit.
>>2932284>My assumption here is that the right-wing in America is trying to regroup and reorganize now that MAGA is clearly crashing and burning beyond repair.i've seen commentary on social media around right wing coded classical education for like 4 years now and i'm sure it's existed in some way for the past decade when this whole chud shit exploded
just saying it's not new
>>2932404What kinds of tropes have you seen regarding right-coded education, specifically?
>>2932332Gobineau is my favorite kind of right wing schizo. Never satisfied and always picking fights with people.
Blacked.com is more influential to the modern right then any conservative philosopher.
>>2932366This. How can you go to an event, any event, hosted by just about any left party and somehow claim that the left is less educated than the right? If anything, leftists like me like to mock the contemporary right for being too dumb to understand its own intellectuals from a century ago, people like Thomas Carlyle etc. Now it seems that a small section of the right is trying to recover that intellectual tradition, but there's still an enormous chasm between namedropping for "the West" and actually doing the fucking reading.
>>2932413unironically this
>>2932404>just saying it's not newIt has existed for decades, right? Like a lot of classics programs are filled with nerdy homeschooled kids from rich conservative families who sent them there to become Gaius Julius Caesar. At least I've heard that from people who teach.
It’s so much easier to convince and argue with someone who’s read the classics than someone who hasn’t. They think they can “see both sides” and the legitimately consider all the arguments. It’s easy when you know how to convince them. Yall need to touch grass and talk to more people.
>>2932284>So what should we be doing in response?Start teaching kids phonics instead of whatever bs that one chick made up (unless I got psyopped I dunno), stop cutting advanced classes and testing standards, enforce discipline in class, stop pretending economics is fake.
>>2932284The problem isn't that the right is getting smarter (they're retarded), but that the left is getting dumber.
Imagine a debate between Penny Pink-Hair from the infoshop and Right-Wing Roger who's fresh out of Hillsdale College. Penny will argue by appealing to the "lived experience of the oppressed", "trauma", and possibly some vague idea of intersectionality even though she has a very poor grasp of what that concept even is. Roger, meanwhile, will appeal to Plato, Aristotle, John Locke, and de Tocqueville. Penny won't appeal to Marx, Proudhon, Fanon, or Deleuze because she is a retard who thinks "lived experience" defies all philosophy. This, my friend, is the real problem regarding the left and intellectualism.
Sorry but everyone relevant ont he left is still a nebbish theoricel and and everyone relevant on the right is still a defiant businessman or a retarded ex-marine.
I don't understand what these post, completely divorced from reality, achieves.
And everyone i saw talking about the litteracy crisis for the last 25 years have been leftists/liberals.
The the only "intellectual right" figures that exist in 2026 is like, Peter Thiel and Alex Karp. Nick Land too i guess but i don't think morphing into catturd-2 five second into being a MAGAtard is a great proof of OPs claim.
>They use very blatant dogwhistles like “classical education”, “great books”, “virtue of the Ancients”, “glory of Western Civilization”, etc. etc. They talk about getting kids (read: they’re kids, the kids of right-wing elites) to study Plato, Xenophon, Aristotle, Cicero, Augustine, Aquinas, etc., learn Latin and Ancient Greek at young ages, and pump their heads full of political philosophy. Yeah it’s indoctrination but still.
I don't understand – these are all good things to learn.
>So what should we be doing in response?
To what? You're making no coherent points.
I want people to educate themselves; you don't, apparently.
>>2932559we can sum up this discussion as follows:
>reactoids in their retarded idealism think they can revive 'the good old times' where only the upper strata was able to get a 'classical education' by reading classic >>2932690So what?
We can learn a lot from the ancients.
>>2932695is this some kind of contrived joke or are you having a hard time with reading comprehension?
Okay, convince me (a Marxist) to read Plato and Aristotle. Why should I care?
>>2932701OP says 'these people are reading books, what should we do'?
I respond "so what?"
You respond 'people are reading books'
I respond "so what?"
>>2932708Marx on Aristotle:
<the great thinker […] Aristotle […] The brilliancy of Aristotle’s geniushttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm<Aristotle, the greatest thinker of antiquityhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm >>2932718okay, you have a hard time with reading comprehension. so what.
>>2932721What is miscomprehended?
Neither you or OP make any points except 'people are reading".
> They use very blatant dogwhistles like “classical education”, “great books”, “virtue of the Ancients”, “glory of Western Civilization”, etc. etc
it's all aestheticization. no one is actually reading in the burgerreich, except for millennial women, who read stuff about knotting. you people are also like "read uygha read" yet i guarantee only like 15% of users here have actually read a single theory book. most people here read curated excerpts and it shows,and that's way more than anyone updating instagram meme pages.
>>2932708Because history is cool
No one will ever read again, what’s the point when tv and movies and videogames and youtube shorts exist?
>>2932734Elites will still read.
>>2932731>except for millennial women, who read stuff about knotting.Okay I just went down this rabbit hole and now I fully support foid genocide.
>>2933136Very un-alpha of you.
cherrypicking history for shit to validate your ideological biases is not intellectualism, it's being a fucking idiot, it's worse than being ignorant, they would actually be smarter if they were illiterate.
>>2933152Total ignorance is way better than having a small amount of knowledge, everyone should pick exactly one subject in school and exclusively study it
>>2932708Because you need to start with the Greeks, moron.
>>2933042Did the ancient Greeks say anything about being ruled by boomers who spend all their time watching snuff footage of Chinese industrial accidents and wild animal attacks while going senile
Because that would be really helpful
>>2933204They would probably say that's fine and you should respect your elders
>>2933205>>2933204Although they might be troubled by the fact that Trump doesn't have any slaves, how can a man with no property rule effectively?
>>2933204they would tell you some lame platitude that "the system's not perfect but it's better to have peace than to violently revolt" and then they'd rip off Buddhism for the millionth fucking time
Lmao no, rightwingers genuinely retards
>>2932708It’s brain food. You can’t understand the importance of learning?
>>2933136reading smut > watching porn
>>2933865and yet OP claims the left doesn't have any intellectuals
>>2932507>appealing to dead white males is superior to appealing to the people who actually live out the oppression due to oppressive systemsFuck off
rightoids won't even read evola they are a joke
>>2934080>blah blah blah appeals to emotion outweigh actual philosophy regarding profound questions and conceptsYou, comrade, are the one who needs to fuck right off.
Rightoids aren't reading classics and pondering philosophy, they're rotting their brains to Asmongold streams and sharty memes
>>2934155There seems to be a growing trend of right-wingers embracing the classics though. That’s what my original post is about.
>>2934185>There seems to be a growing trend of right-wingers embracing the classics though.No? They've been doing this LARP forever, I bet 1/100 poltards who do the greek statue larp shit have ever actually read anything from the greeks/etc
>>2934187Again, they’re serious this time. I don’t see why it’s so hard to accept the fact that the right is attempting to take advantage of the lack of intellectualism in the contemporary left.
>>2934190Because they're fucking idiots that don't like reading
>>2934190I don't understand your concern. If they read they may actually becomes commies even if they start reading rightoid slop because the biggest reason for being a rightoid is having an underdeveloped brain from refusing to use it at all.
Reading forces you to use your brain, once they develop their brains enough they'll read their own theory and go "this is bullshit, dafuq".
There's also that most rightoids just assume that right wing books say intelligent stuff that validates their opinions. They will at times tell other people to read books they've never read because of this assumption. If they actually read the stuff they tell other people to read, they'll feel deeply embarrased.
>>2934080Holy shit imagine wanting credit for being a flaming retard.
>>2934190> I don’t see why it’s so hard to accept the fact that the right is attempting to take advantage of the lack of intellectualism in the contemporary left.maybe because this is not happening at all and you just keep repeating this statement over and over again in the face of evidence to the contrary. almost as if you're some kind of… troll?
>they're serious this timebased on what? a twitter screencap that pretends to care about education like the millions of other pseudo-intellectual statements by right wingers that we've all be pointing out to you? you are a fucking idiot. every post by you in this thread has been pure mushbrain nonsense.
>>2932284I have never been less worried about something in my entire life.
>>2932284>the left has become a vacuum of intellectsource: your rightoid ass concern trolling
also pretending that communism is the movement of educated academics lol or that marx and engels didnt spend their whole lives denouncing philosophy and academics for all their bullshit
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1890/letters/90_08_21.htm
>Long posts by TOR users are prohibitedthe absolute state of this moribund shithole holy shit, at least the whole letter is relevant here
>>2934284>pretending that communism is the movement of educated academics lol or that marx and engels didnt spend their whole lives denouncing philosophy and academics for all their bullshitThey're not pretending, there are still plenty of people who think universities are innately infested with communists and Marxists and whatever identity groups currently have everyone's attention.
>>2932284<Naming a bunch of philosophers makes you smart>narcissists and psychopaths should be seen as “oppressed”. Isn't that pretty common knowledge that it's a mental disorder to be treated? It's a different from how a narcissist or anti-social treats someone personally
>>2934284So why do Marxists place a great deal on educating the masses then?
>>2934609They don't emphasis giving then an ivory tower education, you know this
>>2934720What’s wrong with an ivory tower education? I thought we wanted educational institutions to be open to all?
>>2932284>the right-wing is already taking advantage of the fact that the left has become a vacuum of intellect,This is what the right always does: exploit the current weaknesses of the left and play it up.
This is exactly why Trump won in 2024: he played up the “Bidenflation” stuff at a time when liberals and leftists didn’t want to talk about the economy. Liberals kept denying Biden was doing anything wrong while leftists were too obsessed with Palestine to care about any other issue. The real October Surprise was Hurricane Helene and the aftermath, whereby southern Appalachia was completely devastated and tens of thousands of poor hillbillies lost everything. Meanwhile, Harris was partying with Beyoncé in Atlanta and comrades (who should theoretically be the loudest voices of the working poor) were too involved in their keffiyeh parades to care. Trump and the GOP latched on to that and for that reason they were able to gain enough votes to win.
>>2932309>>2932384>>2932385>>2932388They would argue all they need to do to debunk Marx and Marxism is debunk materialism, since Marxism’s conclusions ultimately rest on materialist metaphysics.
>>2934549
How much of this have you read. Be honest.
>>2934760you mean liberals. The democrats and Harris are not socialists and never were. You only think that because that's what the right-wing media ecosystem has been saying for the past 50 years.
>>2934760 (Me)
Wanted to add (and concur with OP) that you’re seeing accounts like Pens and Poison and The War on Beauty which are run by right-wing women who talk about the decline of culture from an academic perspective. Sure, their conclusions are bullshit, but at least they’re putting in brain work. This kind of stuff is no doubt what the right will rebrand itself as in the upcoming years once Trump and MAGA are officially gone: “we’re the party of sophistication, we want to restore the glory of the West, wokeness is causing cultural decline, we will get rid of woke stuff and replace it with the Great Books and classical art”.
Hate to say it, but the left really needs to think of how they’re going to counter this.
>>2934775Comrades did nothing to help Hurricane Helene victims. I don’t recall them doing anything, which is exactly what enabled Trump to exploit Appalachian grievances.
>>2934778Where are you getting that information from buddy?
And who exactly do you mean by "Comrades"? Because the Democrats aren't comrades at all. Both parties ultimately serve billionaires. Trump won't actually do anything to help said rednecks, they just keep on saying the same crap that they always fall for.
>>2934776We are going to counter this by saying they are full of shit, Culture wars are irrelevant. There is only the class war.
>>2934776These accounts are grifters doing it for the money. Social Media and the internet is not an accurate reflection of reality. They are only louder and more obnoxious thanks to the money they get from billionaires.
>>2934776What gets me most about that fucking waronbeauty lady is what the fuck kind of authority does she have talking about modern aesthetics are shite, when she dresses like absolute dogshit?
>Weird ass lace choker, low cropped dress/top so low it's not even in frame>Leopard print.>Worn out M65 jacket looking thing>Jeans and T shirt>Mannish looking button up.Then all her videos are like:
>oh wow look how much more aesthetic things were 100 years agoDon't even have to go back that far to a time where people would say she looks like a cheap prostitute or a bum.
>>2934783She’s a billionaire fossil fuel heiress.
>>2934781>egoist taking about “class war”I thought you guys didn’t give a shit about classes or any groups or collectives for that matter?
>>2934791She also seethes about sample-based music but is a Kanye fan. I guess she’s in denial about the fact Ye only got big due to producing bears made from soul samples.
> classical education”, “great books”, “virtue of the Ancients”, “glory of Western Civilization”, etc. etc. They talk about getting kids (read: they’re kids, the kids of right-wing elites) to study Plato, Xenophon, Aristotle, Cicero, Augustine, Aquinas, etc., learn Latin and Ancient Greek at young ages, and pump their heads full of political philosophy. Yeah it’s indoctrination but still.
1000% times better then the shit we have to read in public school currently
>>2936148Watch out: people ITT will call you an elitist and insist Marx is all you need.
>>2936219And what? You'd rather have the youth of today read slop, or nothing at all for that matter?
>>2936359yes I'd rather have the kids read work by non-slavers, or nothing at all. fuck the greeks
>>2936366idk have you tried reading it? it's mostly arguments for aristocratic elite rule, there's a reason why conservatives love it so much
>>2936368Does reading and revering a text mean you're forced to agree with all of its conclusions?
Or should leftists do to the Greeks what Evangelicals are currently doing to all the books they deem "immoral" for public consumption?
>>2936148I wish OP's initial claim was actually true because it would be a pleasure to see right-wingers do something, ANYTHING, that at the end of the day doesn't turn into a venal disgust response, misanthropy, performative cruelty or screeching about video games.
>>2936368Also, Marx had a PhD in Greek, did he not?
>>2936380
Do you have a source to back up your outlandish claims?
>>2936380
>BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP
>>2936140That's fucking ridiculous.
>>2936380People typical obsessed over being anti-pedo/loli always turn out to be pedos themselves.
Most child molestation is done by someone the child already knows and trusts, like a family member or a coach or a priest.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/07/why-are-right-wing-conspiracies-so-obsessed-with-pedophilia/>>2933136I'm so happy someone actually fell for my carefully laid out trap
>>2933136lol get a grip my man
>>2936392Yeah, the religious LARP is a strange phenomenon of recent years. Going to church with her skirt halfway up her ass to do her little photoshoot. I guess good on them for trolling the church. They must be really desperate for attendance these days.
https://stpiusvchapel.org/dress-code/>Dresses or skirts at least knee-length when one is seated are appropriate.https://www.catholic.com/qa/modesty-norms-for-mass-clothing>For women, low-cut tops should be avoided, particularly those that expose a woman décolletage region, including her pectoral region. In addition, skirts worn at Mass should be knee-length, as with guidelines at Catholic schools, including because they tend to move upward when a woman sits. One could also recommend the avoidance of dresses that expose a woman’s back, although wearing a shawl can overcome that issue. Ditto, with a dress that exposes a woman’s shoulders, although some may debate that requirement. And form-fitting clothing, as with men, should be avoided. >>2937168Trotsky's writings on Freemasonry (medieval guild LARP) as an enclave for the morally baffled petit-bourgeoisie in their own time struck a chord with me when I read it after seeing this stuff. Catholic tradlarp is attractive to a more affluent social strata.
>>2932319If anything interbreeding with other races was actually way MORE common among aristocrats and elites throughout history. Most people were peasants who never left their home region. How would they ever encounter a foreign race? The only commoners likely to do that would be merchants or other people living in cosmopolitan urban centres. Nobles were the ones marrying their kids off to foreign kings and princesses thousands of kilometers away.
>>2937247Pretty much. Byzantine princesses were marrying German Kings and Korean aristocracy literally had brides from India lol.
>>2937159So this is all we need and everything else can be discarded?
>>2936219Also: I don’t feel sorry for liberals, free market fundamentalist libertarians, and even leftists who complain about “neocons” or the “Straussian cabal” when leftist academics have every opportunity to beat these people at their own game and refuse to do so. What’s stopping Judith Butler from strategically placing her former students into positions of power in Washington and/or the Ivory tower? Instead, Butler’s former students go right back to Oakland where they set up soup kitchens; how many radikewl queer SOUP KITCHENS does Oakland fucking need? Either we get our shit together or we have no room to bitch and moan about this stuff.
Although, as it becomes more and more apparent that the DSA is the future of the Democrats (for better or worse), you know they’re going to start demanding intellectual advisors and mentors like queer theorists, Marxist economists, “Graeberian” anthropologists (especially this), and so on.
>>2937501>What’s stopping Judith Butler from strategically placing her former students into positions of power in Washington and/or the Ivory tower?Integrity
>>2937501We aren't Machiavellians and don't seek to take power from the top-down but from the bottom-up. We don't want to infiltrate elite institutions but to abolish them.
>>2937501>you know they’re going to start demanding intellectual advisors and mentors like queer theorists, Marxist economists, “Graeberian” anthropologists (especially this), and so on.Why would Democrats want policy advice from anarchist anthropologists? What's their goal with that?
>>2937517Judith donated to KKKamala HariSS so she has no integrity to have to worry about anyways.
>>2932314some of these are worthwhile, alot are just written by nobles trying to justify their continued existence in a bourgeois world. Neo reactionnaires are a nothingburger imo, the biggest threat to the human race is the technocratic bourgeoisie that wants to exterminate or turn us into soylent to squeeze 1% more profit margins
>>2937501>What’s stopping Judith Butler from strategically placing her former students into positions of power in Washington and/or the Ivory tower?Is this even a question? Neocons serve power and empire. Butler doesn’t.
>>2938034She literally voted for killer Kamala, doofus.
>>2937501>how many radikewl queer SOUP KITCHENS does Oakland fucking need?Arrogantly spoken like someone who has never lived in a place where the vast majority of residents are lower income and/or marginalized.
>>2937159I can tell a joke too.
the vocal minority who decides the threads on the front page of /leftypol/ has been "anti-intellectual" for a while now to the extent that after 10 years of browsing whatever iteration of this board was currently standing it's rarely worth visiting
however this is not really true of the broader "left." if anything a lot of the people who've stuck around in this new wave of socialist interest globally have become more grounded & mature, and less uncritical social media addicts. there is a much clearer line between left-liberals and socialists than there was just a few years ago, let alone a decade ago
>>2938310The goal of the left isn’t charity work.
>>2937517>bourgeois intellectuals>having integrity>everButler is a CIA asset, idiot.
“The American right” has no consistency anymore.
For instance, on the right it’s now trendy to be anti-Zionist/pro-Palestine, yet these same people will openly support politicians who are pro-Israel like Trump, Bukele, or various European rightists who admire Israel’s nationalism and militarism. Or, on the same token they’ll denounce the Gaza war yet at the same time they’ll say Islamophobic shit like “Islam is destroying Europe” (basically, “I want brown Muslims to live, I just don’t want them living in MY country”). Or, they’ll convert to Catholicism but then support ICE mass-deporting mostly Catholic immigrants from Catholic-majority countries like Mexico and Honduras. Or, they’ll claim to be hardcore free market capitalists but support Trump’s tariffs (which are as anti-free market as you can get). Or, they’ll be proponents of “small government” yet support Trump’s “big government” populist policies.
Neocons were evil, but at least they had ideological consistency in spite of being somewhat eclectic themselves. Right-wing libertarians like the Ron Paul cultists from 15 years ago had consistency. The American right as it exists today is a massive clusterfuck of everything left over from the neocons, right-wing libertarians, and MAGA-Trumpists. Hell, they can’t even decide if they’re Catholics or Evangelicals theologically speaking.
>>2937517What integrity? Butler has consistently shown herself to be a liberal. She's never been a Marxist (given that her methodology comes directly from Derrida and Foucault) and I highly doubt she claims anarchism. She has no excuse to not find ways to get her former students positions in Washington.
>>2937688>>2937694Graeber's work could potentially be extremely useful to the DSA when it comes to domestic policies regarding the creations of localized economies. I'm old enough to remember how everyone was trying to apply Graeber's methods to their cities and towns post-Occupy and create things like co-ops, credit unions, collective housing, etc. DSA would revive this but push it further as part of their program or something.
>>2938034>Butler doesn’t.She works for an elite institution (UC Berkeley). She IS the "empire".
>>2938310Yeah, I know. The left is stuck in a 1968 timewarp whereby their naively believe they can do what the Panthers did and use shit like free food as a way of winning over potential converts to socialism. The problem is, the left becomes entirely immersed in what's essentially no different from church charity. No one is becoming a radical socialist simply because radical socialists are the ones feeding them.
First as tragedy, then as farce.
Can we stop using the word “theory” to describe Marxist (even the word Marxism shouldn’t be used imo) and anarchist thought? Nothing in social or political “sciences” is a theory. You can’t make predictions using this “theory”. The so called theory is just observations of human affairs which are very useful, but lack the precision of natural sciences.
That said, I think one reason there’s a vacuum of intellectualism is because pretty much everything has already been said. It’s quite difficult if not often impossible to have new ideas. What can be said besides “read Marx, read Chomsky, read literally anything”? The way I see it intellectuals nowadays need to explain or interpret the immediate reality and offer possibilities of action. More of a strategist than a philosopher.
>intellect is either 1. oppressive (because it inevitably creates a culture whereby smart people are upheld over stupid people) and/or 2. useless, because ethics are allegedly already embedded within human genetics and therefore all we need is intuition
These are both right-wing positions. No. 2 is false and No. 1 is true but it's not a bad thing.
>>2938566>No one is becoming a radical socialist simply because radical socialists are the ones feeding them.True until governmental breakdown where people either join or starve, the only instance where people actually become radicals and believers (also the reason the church got mass support back in the day), as long as they have the choice to keep their head down and stay alive, that's what most people do.
>>2938667I think both are false tbh. 1. That’s the case because most people receive a very poor education, not because they are stupid and 2. Although our morality is embedded in our being, history has shown that humans can fit into both libertarian and fascist societies. The role of intellectuals is to be a beacon of light
>>2938636Wait til you find out that Marx called his own sociology a "science".
>>2938688Please define both "science" and "scientific" to me.
>>2938686Scientific in that sense means “rigorous”, not scientific in the sense of natural sciences. Look it up, the German word has a different connotation
>>2938689It is not a field of science, but it is both related to and exhibits the principles of science.
>>2938690Right, so you aren't allowed to use the word "theory" to describe theoretical topics, but you can use the term "scientific" to describe non-scientific things. Got it. As an example, if I use rigour to explain the lore of Star Wars, would my diatribe be "scientific"? Obviously not.
>>2938693Just explain what "science" means for the class.
>>2938697>a system of knowledge covering general truths If I write a lore book about Star Wars, is this a scientific document?
>>2938698That’s a fictional book with little to no basis in reality
>>2938702Your definition has nothing to say about fiction versus reality
But let's accept those terms:
If I write a book about myself in systematic deal, is this science?
The point of this exercise is to show that your cognitive dissonance causes intense contradiction, since you must either (i) meaninglessly white-knight for some 19th century German, or (ii) revert your position on the use of the term "theory". Just admit Marx wasn't being "scientific" and this controversy is over.
>>2938709>Your definition has nothing to say about fiction versus realityYou cut off my statement
<with little to no basis in reality>If I write a book about myself in systematic deal, is this science?That really depends.
>since you must either (i) meaninglessly white-knight for some 19th century German, or (ii) revert your position on the use of the term "theory". Just admit Marx wasn't being "scientific" and this controversy is over.There is no controversy. You’re just being dumb.
>>2938709I’m not the guy who replied to you but there’s no contradiction. Marxism isn’t either scientific or theoretical. You can make a rigorous analysis of anything. How rigorous it is, unless scientific as in natural sciences, is highly subjective
>>2938713>dependsDepends on what?
You're avoiding the question.
>dumbYou're the one who thinks "science" is when lots of words.
But if not, tell me exactly what is scientific in Marx's work.
Marx conducted no experiments, and all predictions have failed.
>>2938715Oh I’m in your side then. I don’t believe Marxism is science. I think I misunderstood what you said (again I’m not that guy)
>>2938714>Marxism isn’t either scientific or theoretical.Marx–sm is an ideology. It is entirely theoretical.
You are confused.
>>2938714>Marxism isn’t either scientific or theoreticalScientific socialism is very much both
>How rigorous it is, unless scientific as in natural sciencesIt very much is
>>2938715>Depends on what?Many different factors currently not elaborated on
>You're the one who thinks "science" is when lots of words.Do not project unto me just because you could not comprehend the multiple definitions given to you.
>But if not, tell me exactly what is scientific in Marx's workIt is entirely materialistic and has zero contradictions/ works in tandem with scientific knowledge.
>Marx conducted no experimentsAnd this is why multiple examples of the definition of science has been provided, along with me explicitly calling it scientific, not science.
>>2938716They are calling it unscientific. If you agree with that, then you must be a liberal
>>2938719>It is entirely materialistic and has zero contradictionsIts a bunch of words. That is Marx's work.
Attributing "science" to words is your confusion.
>works in tandem with scientific knowledge.No it doesn't. Marx and Engels' predictions all failed.
Communism is farther away today than 100 years ago.
>>2938722>Its a bunch of wordsTo you.
>Attributing "science" to words is your confusion.I’ve repeatedly been utilizing the word “scientific”. Keep your delusions to yourself.
>No it doesn't.<Source: my ass>Communism is farther away today than 100 years agoNow you’re just coping hard theorylet
>>2938720I do beleive its unscientific. Just become some observations offer insight into human society, doesnt make it scientific.
Whats the difference between scientific and science anyway?
>>2938724So Marxism is not science, but it is scientific?
Marxism is compatible with science, but cannot make predictions?
And acknowledging that "scientific socialism" failed is "cope"?
I think things speak for themselves, don't they?
I hope you are able to think rationally one day.
>>2938727NTA but im curious: do you speak german? are you able to read Das Kapital in german?
>>2938726>I do beleive its unscientific. Then you are a fool
>Just become some observations offer insight into human society, doesnt make it scientificIt does not just offer mere insights. You would know that if you actually read anything. It provide a deeper material understanding of sociological and economical progression of human society throughout history, a rigorous analysis and critique of idealist and utopian philosophies/ideologies that lack material implementation, an analysis on the science of logic and it’s importance, etc
>Whats the difference between scientific and science anywayScience is all the definitions I had previously provided that you didn’t read. Scientific is exhibiting the methods of or relating to science.
>>2938727>So Marxism is not science, but it is scientific?Yesh
>Marxism is compatible with science, but cannot make predictions?>but cannot make predictions?The first part is correct. As for the second part, I have said no such thing.
>And acknowledging that "scientific socialism" failed is "cope"?You have neither a source nor an explanation for that. You came here under the false pretenses of an honest argument with the conclusion already in your head, didn’t you liberal?
>I think things speak for themselves, don't they?You have certainly proven yourself to be quite the failure of a conversationalist, yes I agree.
>I hope you are able to think rationally one day.You should look in the mirror more often.
>>2938732>Scientific is exhibiting the methods of or relating to science.And what are these methods? You have to explain yourself.
What is the scientific method employed in Marx's writings?
>As for the second part, I have said no such thingHave Marx's predictions come true? No – so I can make the claim for you.
>You have neither a source nor an explanation for that.The USSR is no longer around.
Or was the USSR "not real communism"?
>>2938734please answer my question: do you speak german?
>>2938738No – so, returning to the topic, you say:
>Scientific is exhibiting the methods of or relating to science.So then, what are these scientific methods. Explain for us all.
>>2938734>And what are these methods? You have to explain yourself.>What is the scientific method employed in Marx's writings?I feel no need to waste my time on these questions. For the first, you are either jerking around or born literally yesterday. For the second, I have already stated it is not a science.
>Have Marx's predictions come true? NoProve it
>The USSR is no longer around.Okay?
>Or was the USSR "not real communism"You tell me
>>2938740Why so hesitant all of a sudden?
Please explain the methods which make a thing scientific.
What makes Marx's work "scientific", as you endlessly repeat?
>>2938742>Why so hesitant all of a sudden?There is no hesitation.
>Please explain the methods which make a thing scientificI will not. We will move forward instead to my questions.
>What makes Marx's work "scientific", as you endlessly repeat?That has already been explained. Move forward, liberal.
>>2938739i already stated that i am a different anon. i simply was curious whether you'd be able to read Marx in german. i mean, it is obvious you didn't read Marx at all, but its nice to know there is even less of a point to discuss the topic at hand with you.
>>2938744>I will notBecause you're a coward who can't admit they're wrong.
What is scientific methodology and how does Marx use it?
Pull up your dictionary again. Teach us.
As I said all those posts ago:
>>2938709<Just admit Marx wasn't being "scientific" and this controversy is over.But now you have only dug deeper into your pride.
>>2938745You're irrelevant.
Stop replying to me with non-sequitirs.
>>2938748>Because you're a coward who can't admit they're wrongNo, because you’re clearly wasting my time at this point.
>What is scientific methodology and how does Marx use it?I have already stated it is not a science. This question is irrelevant.
>Pull up your dictionary again. Teach us.I will not.
>But now you have only dug deeper into your prideLook. In. A. Mirror.
>>2938750>you’re clearly wasting my timeI'm not making you reply to me. Just stop posting.
>it is not a science.It's not a science, but it's "scientific", as you have repeated.
You defined "scientific" as pertaining to scientific method.
I ask you what this method is and you immediately shut down.
You're a coward.
>>2938750Just accept you are running away bro lol. You could win the debate if you presented Marx's scientific method
>>2938757>Just accept you are running away bro lol. You could win the debate if you presented Marx's scientific methodI just told you it’s not a science. I don’t have to do that. You however do have to actually point out your exact criticisms with his theory.
>>2938753>>2938757>be burgerstani lumpen>never read a single book in their life>never learned a single foreign language>have not the slightest bit of knowledge about the history of science>keep educating other peopleactual retards
>>2938763
Now we just went into impractical territory
>>2938762Since you're smarter than us, teach us.
What exactly are we misunderstanding?
>>2938766We might as well explain that to a rock at this point. A rock would at least be more receptive.
>>2938770You're really smart and we're really dumb.
Explain to us the error in our reasoning, so we may learn, please.
I humbly request your teaching.
>>2938772>You're really smart and we're really dumbThat is correct
>Explain to us the error in our reasoningThis implies you have sufficient reasoning to have your faults explained to you. You do not.
>I humbly request your teachingYour request has been denied.
>>2938762Im not American
Ive read plenty of books but I accept my limited knowledge
I speak 3 languages: English, Spanish, Japanese
You dont either
I will express my opinion wih my limited knowledge
>>2938776You are like, the smartest person I've ever talked to.
One of the smartest people in the world, probably.
It's a shame you won't teach us, but you're better than us, so know better in any case. Oh well. I hope one day I can be worthy of your wisdom, but today's not the day. Wonderful talking to your majesty, in any case. Take care.
>>2938779>I will express my opinion wih my limited knowledgeyou are free to do so. why should anyone bother engaging with you in an argument though? discussing opinions is pretty stupid and dare i saw - unscientific?
>>2938780>Wonderful talking to your majestyI do not promote royalty and other monarchist traditions of any sort. Refrain from such slander.
>>2938781>discussing opinions is pretty stupid and dare i saw - unscientific?You are not getting your 20h discussion.
>>2938782Apologies.
You deserve a better audience than myself.
I cannot satisfy your immense genius, in any case.
>>2938784Correct, now scram peasant
>>2933862the real starting point of philosophy is actually whether to kill yourself or keep going. once you decide to keep going, the rest flows from there.
>>2932708>Okay, convince me (a Marxist) to read Plato and Aristotle. Why should I care?i guess because marx himself started with the classics, and was quite the admirer or aristotle, as he relates very early on in volume 1 of capital
>>2937501Neocons have no power. It’s not 2004 anymore.
>>2937501Nobody loses their soul from working in a soup kitchen.
Work in Washington for 10 minutes abd your sense of ethics will completely vanish.
>>2938946>”blah blah blah the goal isn’t to take power”Meanwhile, Mamdani took power in NYC and has been doing incredible things for the city in less than a year of being elected.
The idea that socialists “go bad” when taking up positions of power in a capitalist state keeps being debunked time and time again.
>>2939050Mamdani can fire Jessica Tisch and stop gaslighting his supporters
>>2934783She also has an ugly haircut.
>>2939057>Mamdani can fire Jessica Tisch and stop gaslighting his supportersit's not gaslighting because he never promised it. his supporters are just fucking stupid and fell for succdems
>>2934776>why doesn't The Left (tm) have a giant culture industry worth billions of dollars to pump out slop like these Literally-Who Right Wing accounts I'm pretending to talk casually about when I'm paid to be advertising themkys
>>2939114Well, why don't they? If the left is so smart and understands capitalism so well where are its billionaires? I guess there was that Chinese guy.
>>2939078She's making the same types of critiques that the Frankfurt School were making in the mid 20th century.
>>2932284>Especially in the past five years or so the American left has almost entirely dismissed intellect and intellectualism in favour of appeals to emotion and petty in-fighting over covid masking, whose identity makes them the most marginalized, and whether or not going to the gym is “fascist”. Perhaps if you weren't such a "vacuum of intellect" you wouldn't believe in far-right strawmen like these.
>>2939173To become a billionaire you have to trample massively and outstandishly on your fellow workers which obviously cause in left leaning individuals a cognitive dissonance very few can endure.
>>2939111>>2939112This. Mamdani isn't "Palestine First", he's NYC First.
>>2939112i don't really like this argument, people looking for secret zionism in zohran are missing the forest for the trees, when clearly the problem on the palestine issue for him is not insufficient ideological dedication but rather the stupid fucking strategy of expecting a single guy holding a mayor's office to institute socialism in one city with no way for the dsa to discipline him or support this goal after electing him and praising this guy as the second coming of lenin for months
>>2939221Every leftist needs to be Palestine First. There is no socialism when Palestine remains in chains.
>>2939865That sounds awful.
>>2932284>they're encouraging kids to read and get educatedlol
>>2940100I think they're encouraging them to major in psych.
>>2932312why do people pretend philosophy is a math problem and not a context sensitive tool you use in an evolving situation
>>2939221>Mamdani is not a leftist, he's an american chauvinist We know bro
>>2940323>leftist means “Palestine first”Right
>>2940100They are. They want kids to read reactionary books like Plato.
>>2940698On what basis should we allow the right to control education and the humanities?
>>2940884It's better for anybody to read anything.
Sorry Grug, but defending selective illiteracy is stupid.
>>2940906You do realize the right is simply going to use political philosophy to brainwash kids against the left, right?
>>2937501Butler doesn’t have the backing of a mega billionaire like Peter Thiel.
>>2940698>>2940906This “classical education” stuff is being spearheaded by the Claremont Institute, which is heavily funded by Peter Thiel. You honestly trust them?
>>2941138I don't really care what they do. If they read the classics, that's ok, if they don't, they'll just keep being retarded and talking about vvestern civ or whatever
>>2940993>brainwashYou can't be brainwashed by reading books.
Only a person who wants to be conned falls for a con.
>>2941138>Peter Thiel wants people to read.Good. We both agree – I suppose you disagree. Or do you, Grug?
>>2938190>libs in picsI don't follow
>>2941137Yeah she gets her funding from the CIA directly.
>>2937501>soup kitchensFirst we eat, then we fight, retard.
>>2932284Prove Claremont is behind this.
>>2941469First we eat, then we leave because we're not hungry anymore
>>2942002Starving people don’t fight.
>>2942017I mean they do, just not very effectively
>>2941469Queer theory soup kitchens are no different from the soup kitchens run by Evangelical churches, FYI.
>>2942017They can eat when they prove that they deserve to. During a period of civil war food will be scarce, those not in the Party must prove themselves and carry their own weight before they can gain access to our rations
>>2942017Explain Gaza then.
>>2942165Imagine thinking READING two seminal works of political philosophy requires gulag.
Can someone explain to me why leftists are supposed to detest the classics?
>>2942627Ask yourself what a greek aristocrat raping young boys on his slave plantation over 2000 years ago has in common with a modern laborer.
>>2942632What if that text is a defining writing of western civilization?
>>2942632Sounds like the elite today
>>2942902and (you) aint one of them
>>2932284>the left has become a vacuum of intellectfalse premise, irrelevant time wasting question
>>2943016there isn't anything to be learned from reading le greeks in 2026. i will literally gain more knowledge insight and practical information from reading leftypol and 4chan than from reading ilikeboysies
>>2943020Heh, suit yourself. But why discourage others from reading them?
>>2941137Queer Theory is the philosophy of HR departments. All the radikewl speak we used in anarchist slaves 15 years ago has been fully co-opted by the capitalist system. Nothing revolutionary about pronoun circles or being non-binary.
>>2938034Her ideas are fully integrated into the ruling class nexus.
>>2943029>picIsn't it obvious?
>>2943051>anarchist slaves*spaces
Duck autocorrect
>>2943051imagine thinking this. in order to keep the proles divided there MUST be people who are viewed as freaks by the greater population. the circus needs clowns
>>2943068It’s better for capitalists to integrate marginalized folks into the corporate world than it is to keep them as lumpen, idiot.
>>2937501Hardcore truth nuke.
>>2937517>>2938310Both of you are slaves.
>>2937501This actually reminds me of how Bill Kristol (who is a total slimeball) said in The Power of Nightmares how he and his fellow neocons/Straussbros all had PhDs in political science or philosophy but couldn’t get jobs in academia, because even in the 1970s academia had an aversion to conservatives, so they instead went to Washington where they engaged in all sorts of political fuckery. Had the neocons like Kristol, Wolfowitz, etc. been given jobs in the universities maybe America would have been spared some of the worst foreign and domestic policies of the past 50 years.
It actually makes me think that the main reason you see so many right-wing podcast bros and tradwife influencers is for the exact same reason. The internet is the only place where they have any platform, so they monopolize the discourse online. If these people were allowed into the Ivory Tower and given a platform their toxicity would be limited to whatever institution they teach for and — more importantly — their bullshit would be subject to peer review before anyone else consumes it. So some right-wing woman writing an academic journal article arguing against feminism or abortion rights would get her article handed back to her covered in blood and told to use better arguments, better philosophy, better statistics, etc. Really makes you think.
>>2937517Butler isn’t someone I would ever associate with integrity.
>>2943749the problem with this premise is that if an idea is incorrect it can not stand up to rigorous review or criticism no matter how well you state it
>>2937501>teaching Plato is not a conspiracyThe ENTIRE text describes a conspiracy by elites.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ajps.12630 >>2943819And? Doesn’t that prove the point about right-wingers being forced to come to term with his retarded their ideas are if their ideas were allowed to be talked about in academia?
>>2943749This makes no sense when you realize that Hillsdale College, Grove City College, Franciscan U, Norte Dame, CUA, GMU, Auburn U, and nearly every college and university in Texas exist.
>>2943926nobody talks about them because they are easily proven to be incorrect
>>2943974Incorrect ideas still deserve a platform so others will understand why they’re incorrect. We still read Marx and Engels’ polemics against their opps, for instance.
>>2944067academics isn't about giving people a platform
>>2944069There’s plenty of leftist academics who spew out bullshit who still get a platform in academia. You have a very oversimplified view.
>>2943974What do you mean by “proven to be incorrect”. Name some of these “incorrect” ideas.
>>2932302>rightoids and intellectualism are just incompatible full stopWe cannot afford to be this dismissive and arrogant in our thinking. Obviously there are highly sophisticated and smart people on the right as well. Unless you want to explain away the right's recent successes mainly by asserting they are dumb and ignorant? Because then that reflects on the leftist agenda VERY badly: for all the brains and political theory, a leftist being bested by a pigeon shitting on the chess board isn't exactly a flattering image of our capabilities, wouldn't you say? Though, there might be some truth to that; leftists in general tend to be too smart for their own good, which is why the great conundrum for the left is that, until the ordinary people are smart enough, they will never understand the Big Ideas of the left, and if they are not brought under the power of these Big Ideas, they will never be smart enough. Too many times leftists dismiss the simple ideas, which just so happens to be to the average person the most emotionally impactful ones. And at the hands of a smart right-wing intellectual who can masterfully handle the simple ideas, will almost always outplay a left-wing intellectual who overlooks those simple ideas and instead focuses solely on the Big Ideas.
>>2932284>Especially in the past five years or so the American left has almost entirely dismissed intellect and intellectualism in favour of appeals to emotion and petty in-fighting over covid masking, whose identity makes them the most marginalized, and whether or not going to the gym is “fascist”. Hell, someone just posted a screenshot from Reddit arguing that narcissists and psychopaths should be seen as “oppressed”. Why? What’s our antidote to the right when the right uses literacy and philosophy and such as a means of implementing fascism (or fascism-lite)?All of those issues are a symptom of the left-wing movement turning anomic and weak. One of the corner stones of 20th century leftist thought in terms of practical political theory, has been the Leninist vanguard, the "professional revolutionary". In the 21st century leftist movement that has been scrapped in the name of opposing elitism. That has been a grave mistake, because now the primary measuring stick of value is the retarded evaluation mode of "other-directedness", where essentially all notions of right and wrong are derived from what other people around us hold as right or wrong. This wouldn't be as much of an issue were it not for the fact that we're living in the Internet age, where insanity can fester and grow in isolated social enclaves where people reaffirm and enable each other's delusions. That's how you get to a point where going to the gym is seen as fascist: weak and delusional people leveling social power to their advantage until they are powerful enough to signal to others - and thereby determine for majority of people around them - what is right and wrong, regardless of any objective values or facts. Truth has always been something that only the strong can handle. That's why elitism, hierarchy, and vanguardism has to re-enter back to the limelight of leftist thought. Otherwise you get swarmed by the liberal hive-mind who co-opt and muddy the waters of what true leftism is all about: authority, intellect, bravery, and sacrifice.
>So what should we be doing in response?- Cultivate and mold yourself into something greater. 2. re-learn the language of the laypeople (ie. dumbing down the Big Ideas and learning the art of rhetoric in order to make those ideas appealing; right-wing elites co-opting Cicero is no excuse to dismiss Cicero altogether). 3. organize; nothing of value was ever achieved alone. If right-wingers urge people to read Plato, then you go right ahead and organize a reading group or a book club where you read Plato, and you tell them how the right-wing ideology is actually antithetical to Platonism, and that Plato was in fact the first true progressive, the archetypal leftist. From there on out you keep cultivating yourselves and your character, chiseling away all the gross metaphorical tumours and excess fat that currently plagues the liberalized left, until you have in your hands a vanguard, the best of the best, a truly professional revolutionary party. That's how literally every other leftist movement of any value from time immemorial was build.
>>2944069Plenty of wrong ideas are openly discussed in the universities. How do you come to the conclusion that they’re wrong to begin with?
>>2944469Nothing but truthpills right here.
>>2944465Am I wrong for laughing hysterically at this?
>evangelicals: “don’t read Plato, he’s occult/satanic.”
>vulgar Marxists: “don’t read Plato, he’s reactionary/idealist.”
Really makes you think.
>>2943063>Isn't it obvious?only if you do the reading
>>2944469>they're successful because they're smartno it's because they're brutal, fast, and have resources.
>>2944844>no it's because they're brutal, fast, and have resources.While all of that might be true, given the context, that sounds like an excuse meant to justify one's idleness and ineptitude. Because you still have to know how to use those resources and be those things at the right time. Moreover, none of those necessarily turns into popular support, or even into a plan or an idea of what to do with all of that brutality, speed and resources. A billionaire, for instance, *could* (and of course they do, and have done) make a swift, widespread corporate capture of media and then spend tremendous amounts of money to churn out propaganda, but if the propaganda is just slop that nobody buys, then throwing more money at the problem isn't going to fix it. In order to achieve your main objectives, you still need to be cognizant enough of the world around, be smart enough to frame it in a way that serves your political interests (ie. theorize), know how to manipulate people, and give them what they want - or, at the very least, give off the appearance of it. Even you must admit that it takes special type of skills and brains to produce content that will appeal to people and gain their support, especially if that support is going to end up hurting the people down the line. The historical point we've arrived at since the 50's wasn't concocted overnight by a merciless, barbarous, blitzkrieg war with an infinite money supply to back it up, even if you'd like to think that. It has been a gradual, sophisticated and patient process, which couldn't have been made possible without the silent, manufactured consent/paralyzation of the people. As Plato (in paraphrase) has said, "if you want to deceive, then you must proceed with the lie in small steps, instead of by leaps and bounds".
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