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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Stupid question.

How come elections tend to always be like 49%/51% but not something spectacular like 70%/30%?

It feels to me like its programmed so that one tendency never have too much power.

What gives?

Illusion of opposition

>>2939699
Do you have stats to back that up? Because I have lived long enough to recall various elections and the results went from 47-53 to 82-19

Have you seen the Russian elections ? Or china and north korea ? :^)

>>2939699
It's called managed democracy. Whether the vote totals are manipulated to make it seem more competitive, or if it's an exact science of advertising and PR that splits the electorate into 2 near equal camps, who knows.

Because the ruling class are very adept at deciding what both the Left-leaning and Right-leaning prolecattle should believe. And they distribute those ideas so that both sides are more or less evenly matched. Eg, there's no reason why rightists should oppose high taxes on wealthy elites, especially as rightoids consider them all to be either evil Jews or corrupt NWO. Similarly, there's no reason for leftists to be "soft on crime". No communist country was ever soft on crime and the biggest victims of crime are proletarians.

Nevertheless via propaganda, academia and media, the ruling class makes the proles take up positions that aren't even consistent according to their own beliefs. They do this JUST enough to make sure there's an even split in society.

That even split then makes it easy for them to manipulate elections and make sure whichever govt they currently want gets into power. Remember all parties are controlled by the ruling class, when they currently need Dems in power, they brought Obama, when they currently need Reds in power they brought Trump.

>>2940007
This is the real fucking trvke tbh, you could see /pol/ switch sides on COVID in real time

Elections are a form of theatre, not a way to gain power. The less people who vote, the closer you are to winning.

🎵 Don't vote vote vote it's not our moment, join the People's Guerrila Army 🎵

>>2940007
"soft on crime" and "hard on crime" are reactionary slogans to justify recidivism and locking up poor people en masse

>>2940007
>>2940106
>Its da joos elites controlling everyone's brains!
Maybe there's a simpler explanation; rightoid politics (i.e. you should suck up to pedo billionaires and they should own everything you should have no rights) is not something most would vote for unless it's sprinkled with "populist" policies and slogans and whatever appeals to their psychosexual pathologies. So it's no surprise they end up getting 49%-51% of the vote because they're willing to do and say the minimum to stay in power and get re-elected. Without watering down the program.
E.g see Bolsonaro, Trump, etc.

>>2940112
Being the second anon you quoted; I don't personally think it's really orchestrated or conscious. There is definitely a line-drawing/clustering instinct in electoral politics that explains broadly schizophrenic positions. e.g. NFT/DAO adjacent tech has no business being a libertarian fixation apart from its aesthetics.

>>2940007
There is an element of this but the underlying transmission mechanism in a modern context is individual disposition. Rightoids oppose taxes on billionaires because they're antisocial assholes, leftists are soft on crime because they're bleeding heart dogooders. You can demonstrate this on a single big5 axis: agreeableness.

This is also why moderate(ish) atheist debate bros mostly became trump cultists (they enjoy disagreement and argument) while the other half of new atheism became SJWs and have now drifted to socialism and communism. (They disliked that religion was all fire and brimstone + closed minded)

>>2940132
There's another axis worth considering and that's that more so than being disagreeable, every right wing friend and person I've known is deeply insecure on some level. Sexually, professionally, etc. Their tribalism is also interesting considering they dislike basically everyone; alienated or so-so with their (extended) families, distrustful of their neighbors, don't like women, don't like men, don't like people in general. And it doesn't matter if they live in pasty white suburbia or the sticks, they still don't like or trust people.
That + being disagreeable is spite voting fuel.

Because you have two camps min-maxing.

>>2940007
>muh unified ruling class
>muh communist country bla bla
2010s libertarian ass argument.

>>2940158
Don't hold back. Tell us what you believe.

comparing a vigalante to mentally unwell mass shooter Is like comparing Godzilla to Robert Pattinson- (lizard person)

>>2940007
>No communist country was ever soft on crime and the biggest victims of crime are proletarians.
"soft on crime" is a meme, rehabilitation is the only empirically proven method, muh heckin' performative revengerino doesn't work past 6th grade and is the reason former soviet states were and are crime infested

>>2940207
Wtf the chud was not a vigalante

>>2940201
Tension between small capitalists and big capitalists. It's that simple.

>>2940207
Robert Pattinson is a bat-person though

>>2939699
>How come elections tend to always be like 49%/51% but not something spectacular like 70%/30%?
They don't tend to always, but in many two-party systems it's because of electoral rules, boundaries redrawn, known as gerrymandering, and things like this.
>>>/QTDDTOT/

>>2940007
Wrong. There is no communist revolution that has been made by giving the bourgeois state the power to repress crime and be "tough on crime," because communists and workers can only overthrow the bourgeois state, establish the dictatorship of the proletariat, and organize against the bourgeoisie by doing what is considered a crime by the bourgeois state. Therefore, scientific socialist theory does not tolerate giving the bourgeois state the power to repress crime, whether to judges, prisons, the standing armed army, or the police. All of these elements serve as obstacles to the supremacy of the proletarian class.

As Lenin's own text in his program before the revolution wrote:

<The party of the proletariat cannot rest content with a bourgeois parliamentary democratic republic, which throughout the world preserves and strives to perpetuate the monarchist instruments for the oppression of the masses, namely, the police, the standing army, and the privileged bureaucracy.


<The party fights for a more democratic workers’ and peasants’ republic, in which the police and the standing army will be abolished and replaced by the universally armed people, by a people’s militia; all officials will be not only elective, but also subject to recall at any time upon the demand of a majority of the electors; all officials, without exception, will be paid at a rate not exceeding the average wage of a competent worker; parliamentary representative institutions will be gradually replaced by Soviets of people’s representatives (from various classes and professions, or from various localities), functioning as both legislative and executive bodies.


[…]
<11) Judges and other officials, both civil and military, to be elected by the people with the right to recall any of them at any time by decision of a majority of their electors.

<12) The police and standing army to be replaced by the universally armed people; workers and other employees to receive regular wages from the capitalists for the time devoted to public service in the people’s militia.

[…]
<As a basic condition for the democratisation of our country’s national economy, the Russian Social-Democratic Labour Party demands the abolition of all indirect taxes and the establishment of a progressive tax on incomes and inheritances.

<The high level of development of capitalism already achieved in banking and in the trustified branches of industry, on the one hand, and the economic disruption caused by the imperialist war, everywhere evoking a demand for state and public control of the production and distribution of all staple products, on the other, induce the Party to demand the nationalisation of the banks, syndicates (trusts), etc.


<To safeguard the working class from physical and moral deterioration, and develop its ability to carry on the struggle for emancipation, the Party demands:


<1) An eight-hour working day for all wage-workers, including a break of not less than one hour for meals where work is continuous. In dangerous and unhealthy industries the working day to be reduced to from four to six hours.


<2) A statutory weekly uninterrupted rest period of not less than forty-two hours for all wage-workers of both sexes in all branches of the national economy.


<3) Complete prohibition of overtime work.


<4) Prohibition of night-work (from 8 p.m. to 6 a.m.)in all branches of the national economy except in cases where it is absolutely necessary for technical reasons endorsed by the labour organisations—provided, however, that night-work does not exceed four hours.


<5) Prohibition of the employment of children of school age (under sixteen), restriction of the working day of adolescents (from sixteen to twenty) to four hours, and prohibition of the employment of adolescents on night-work in unhealthy industries and mines.


<6) Prohibition of female labour in all branches of industry injurious to women’s health; prohibition of night work for women; women to be released from work eight weeks before and eight weeks after child-birth without loss of pay and with free medical and medicinal aid.


<7) Establishment of nurseries for infants and young children and rooms for nursing mothers at all factories and other enterprises where women are employed; nursing mothers to be allowed recesses of at least half-hour duration at intervals of not more than three hours; such mothers to receive nursing benefit and their working day to be reduced to six hours.


<8) Full social insurance of workers:


<a) for all forms of wage-labour;


<b) for all forms of disablement, namely, sickness, injury, infirmity, old age, occupational disease, child-birth, widowhood, orphanhood, and also unemployment, etc.


<c) all insurance institutions to be administered entirely by the insured themselves;


<d) the cost of insurance to be borne by the capitalists;


<e) free medical and medicinal aid under the control of self-governing sick benefit societies, the management bodies of which are to be elected by the workers.


<9) The establishment of a labour inspectorate elected by the workers’ organisations and covering all enterprises employing hired labour, as well as domestic servants; women inspectors to be appointed in enterprises where female labour is employed.


<10) Sanitary laws to be enacted for improving hygienic conditions and protecting the life and health of workers in all enterprises where hired labour is employed; questions of hygiene to be handled by the sanitary inspectorate elected by the workers’ organisations.


<11) Housing laws to be enacted and a housing inspectorate elected by the workers’ organisations to be instituted for the purpose of sanitary inspection of dwelling houses. However, only by abolishing private property in land and building cheap and hygienic dwellings can the housing problem be solved.


<12) Industrial courts to be established in all branches of the national economy.


<13) Labour exchanges to be established for the proper organisation of work-finding facilities. These labour ex changes must be proletarian class organisations (organised on a non-parity basis), and must be closely associated with the trade unions and other working-class organisations and financed by the communal self-governing bodies.


<V. I. Lenin, 1917, Materials Relating to the Revision of the Party Programme


https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/reviprog/ch04.htm

In the event that the dictatorship of the proletariat is established in a communist revolution and the supremacy of the proletarian class is consolidated, then counter-revolutionaries, saboteurs, and agents of imperialist capitalism will be punished and combated. This does not involve punishing criminals; people with anti-social behavior will be punished with re-education, with more severe punishments depending on whether they are serving imperialist capitalism against the supremacy of the proletariat in the dictatorship of the proletariat. There will still be relations with communists from other countries that will help these other countries acquire economic sovereignty and be able to have a communist revolution to socialize their economies.

Punishing criminals, I consider too vague and easily co-opted by counter-revolutionary opportunists to depoliticize the masses and ignore the class struggle.

Let's look at the quote from Engels writing about the state:

<As the state arose from the need to keep class antagonisms in check, but also arose in the thick of the fight between the classes, it is normally the state of the most powerful, economically ruling class, which by its means becomes also the politically ruling class, and so acquires new means of holding down and exploiting the oppressed class. The ancient state was, above all, the state of the slave-owners for holding down the slaves, just as the feudal state was the organ of the nobility for holding down the peasant serfs and bondsmen, and the modern representative state is the instrument for exploiting wage-labor by capital. Exceptional periods, however, occur when the warring classes are so nearly equal in forces that the state power, as apparent mediator, acquires for the moment a certain independence in relation to both. This applies to the absolute monarchy of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, which balances the nobility and the bourgeoisie against one another; and to the Bonapartism of the First and particularly of the Second French Empire, which played off the proletariat against the bourgeoisie and the bourgeoisie against the proletariat. The latest achievement in this line, in which ruler and ruled look equally comic, is the new German Empire of the Bismarckian nation; here the capitalists and the workers are balanced against one another and both of them fleeced for the benefit of the decayed Prussian cabbage Junkers.


<Frederick Engels, 1884, Origins of the Family, Private Property, and the State, IX. Barbarism and Civilization


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ch09.htm

The state is not a neutral entity above classes, nor does it reconcile social classes. Therefore, it is intolerable to have any illusion about the state giving the appearance that it is not an instrument of one class oppressing another social class. Punishing criminals means this and is therefore unacceptable. Punishing opportunists, counter-revolutionaries, agents of imperialist capitalism, liberals, reactionaries, apologists for class conciliation, saboteurs, and enemies of the supremacy of the proletarian class is more acceptable. Correcting, re-educating, disciplining, and treating individuals with antisocial behavior, lack of discipline, or confusion due to lack of education is another acceptable response, different from the first case.

I will provide another quote from Marx that addresses the question of the industrial reserve army of labor and the issue of granting the power of repression to the bourgeois state:

<The French socialist workers, in adopting as the aim of their efforts the political and economic expropriation of the capitalist class and the return to community of all the means of production, have decided, as a means of organization and struggle, to enter the elections with the following immediate demands:


<A. Political Section

<1. Abolition of all laws over the press, meetings and associations and above all the law against the International Working Men's Association. Removal of the livret, [6] that administrative control over the working class, and of all the articles of the Code [7] establishing the inferiority of the worker in relation to the boss, and of woman in relation to man;
[…]
<3. Suppression of the public debt;
<4. Abolition of standing armies and the general arming of the people;
<5. The Commune to be master of its administration and its police.

<B. Economic Section


<1. One rest day each week or legal ban on employers imposing work more than six days out of seven. - Legal reduction of the working day to eight hours for adults. - A ban on children under fourteen years working in private workshops; and, between fourteen and sixteen years, reduction of the working day from eight to six hours;

<2. Protective supervision of apprentices by the workers' organizations;
<3. Legal minimum wage, determined each year according to the local price of food, by a workers' statistical commission;
<4. Legal prohibition of bosses employing foreign workers at a wage less than that of French workers;
<5. Equal pay for equal work, for workers of both sexes;
<6. Scientific and professional instruction of all children, with their maintenance the responsibility of society, represented by the state and the Commune;
<7. Responsibility of society for the old and the disabled;
<8. Prohibition of all interference by employers in the administration of workers' friendly societies, provident societies, etc., which are returned to the exclusive control of the workers;
<9. Responsibility of the bosses in the matter of accidents, guaranteed by a security paid by the employer into the workers' funds, and in proportion to the number of workers employed and the danger that the industry presents;
<10. Intervention by the workers in the special regulations of the various workshops; an end to the right usurped by the bosses to impose any penalty on their workers in the form of fines or withholding of wages (decree by the Commune of 27 April 1871);
<11. Annulment of all the contracts that have alienated public property (banks, railways, mines, etc.), and the exploitation of all state-owned workshops to be entrusted to the workers who work there;
<12. Abolition of all indirect taxes and transformation of all direct taxes into a progressive tax on incomes over 3,000 francs. Suppression of all inheritance on a collateral line [8] and of all direct inheritance over 20,000 francs.

<Editorial Notes

[…]
<6. The 'livret' was a certificate which a worker was legally obliged to present when taking up a new job, confirming that his debts and obligations to his previous employer had been discharged. The practice was finally abolished in 1890.
<7. The Code Napoleon, the French law.

<Karl Marx and Jules Guesde, 1880, The Programme of the Parti Ouvrier

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/05/parti-ouvrier.htm

>>2939699
There used to exist elections with stats like this before polarization

>>2939699

>How come elections tend to always be like 49%/51% but not something spectacular like 70%/30%?


In multiparty systems this is not common at all. USA has a "first-past-the-post" election system that results in two parties. These two parties then regulate themselves to compete over the average voter.

>>2940602
Ronald Reagan won his presidency with 59% against 41%.

File: 1793166039955-2.png (54.81 KB, 652x330, ClipboardImage.png)

nah

File: 1793166222317-4.jpg (164.03 KB, 1183x1569, sodameme.jpg)

>>2939980
>Whether the vote totals are manipulated to make it seem more competitive, or if it's an exact science of advertising and PR that splits the electorate into 2 near equal camps, who knows.
Speaking from an Ameriburger perspective, it's both. The former through political machine corruption like gerrymandering, the latter through bourgeois "political science" and marketing. Each candidate is a highly curated product meant to capture a specific cross section of the electorate thought strategically useful. Also the poorest are just discouraged from voting at all since candidates only care about the petty bourgeoisie and the bourgeoisie. They rely on the votes of the petty bourgeoisie and the donations of the bourgeoisie. For presidents especially they spend term 1 doing things the donors like but avoiding things that would piss off their voters, and they spend term 2 doing things the donor like with no regard for the voters. The mostly nonvoting working class are just seen as plebs who are supposed to shut up and take it up the ass and be grateful they don't live in one of the places getting bombed.


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