prejudice against Muslims or that you want regime change somewhere?
I personally subscribe to the idea that we shouldn't hold back when discussing the negative aspects of religion, whether it's Christianity, Islam, or any other religion, especially in academia. However, I also recognize that these discussions can have political consequences, particularly when conservatives use criticisms of religious teachings to justify prejudice, discrimination, or hostility toward religious minorities.
That being said, I don't think the potential for these criticisms to be weaponized should automatically discourage us from critically examining the theological contents of a religion, especially when certain teachings have historically been used to justify oppressive social and political practices. Otherwise, we risk applying different standards of scrutiny depending on which religion we're discussing.
As a leftist, I don't really like it when other leftists focus exclusively on Western imperialism, NATO, and European colonialism when discussing the negative aspects of non-Western societies and religious traditions. While these historical and political forces have undoubtedly influenced how religion has developed and been practiced, I don't think it's academically sound to attribute every problematic theological teaching or social practice to Western influence. Doing so can inadvertently strip non-Western societies of their own historical agency, as though their religious and political institutions were incapable of developing oppressive practices independently of European colonialism.
I know that Western liberals and leftists often use phrases like "All religions are like this," "Christianity does that too," or "It's not exclusive to Islam" when responding to criticisms of Islamic theology. And while I don't necessarily disagree with those statements, I think they sometimes miss the point of the criticism being made. Just because Christianity has similar teachings or a history of comparable religious behavior doesn't mean those found within Islam should be exempt from scrutiny. If anything, shouldn't that be an argument for holding both religions to the same standard rather than using one to deflect criticism of the other?
I don't think it's particularly controversial in left-wing spaces to criticize Biblical passages concerning slavery, the treatment of women, homosexuality, or divinely sanctioned violence. Yet, when discussing similar subjects within Islamic theology, I've noticed that some people become more concerned about the political implications of the criticism itself rather than engaging with its actual substance.
Again, I'm not suggesting that Muslims universally interpret their religious texts in the same way, nor am I arguing that Islamic theology is inherently more oppressive than Christian or Jewish theology. However, there's a difference between acknowledging that complexity and being unwilling to critically examine the theological foundations themselves. We should be able to discuss whether particular Quranic passages, hadiths, or actions attributed to Muhammad are morally defensible without automatically treating such discussions as attacks against Muslims especially in Academic spaces.
To be frank with you, I'm someone originally from the Global South who attended ESL classes during my youth, and pretty much all my homies are first-generation immigrants (e.g., Jews, Arab Muslims, Arab Christians, Turks, and Kurds). Our conversations about religion, politics, and culture aren't always what Western progressives would consider politically correct. We're pretty comfortable criticizing each other's cultural traditions, including our own, and we don't necessarily interpret those criticisms as personal attacks against our identities. That said, this doesn't mean prejudices don't exist within our communities or that everyone from these backgrounds approaches these conversations the same way. However, I sometimes get the impression that Western progressives still remain uncomfortable with these discussions than the people who actually grew up within the religious and cultural backgrounds being criticized.
What are your thoughts?
Thoughts?
>I sometimes get the impression that Western progressives still remain uncomfortable with these discussions than the people who actually grew up within the religious and cultural backgrounds being criticized.
Yes, because they're condescending racists.
If you think you have to talk to adults like children, you think you must be better than them. I have the opposite view, but I am not ever too impolite, either. As long as you are able to be funny, you can break the ice. I think a lot of it is tone.
Islam is a very problematic religion, like other abhramic religions, I think is fair to criticize something when it bad, and I agree that many islamist used the excuse of "is racism if you criticize our religon" to avoid fair and right criticism
Yeah Islam is dogshit, and while Christianity is slop too Islam seems to be worse, but the current Salafi wave is a result of the US & Gulf countries funding Wahhabi mosques and military groups to combat socialism and nationalism. Islam doesn’t have to be the way it is today
>>2947404I'm the same as you, thirdie and ex-Muslim although English is my first language.
"All religions are like this" is right. There's nothing intrinsic to the text that determines how much of a religion to ignore, if you insist on following everything you're going to pick up some real dogshit. You can criticize the exact details but it must be with a view to reducing religiosity in general.
Also, there is no elegant solution to being accused of racism whenever white or Israeli people or military or police action is involved. Muslims in the west are either somewhat progressive or somewhat conservative, you simply don't get the absolute psychos you do elsewhere except for egal-wearing expats, so it's not even a good direction to attack.
>2026
>still "critiquing" religion instead of accepting it as a superstructure
holy liberalism
>>2947452If you arranged religiosity vs material formation there are some patterns, but in not destitute countries it actually seems quite random.
>>2947431Salafism is the Evangelism of muslims, a big right wing psyop
Mecca should be a museum. After tearing down the ugly saudi shit
>>2947404I think there are similarities to antisemitism but also important differences.
I think most of the big middle Eastern oil powers are firmly on their way to assimilation into the imperial core at this point. But there's never going to be a Muslim Israel with the same cultural monopoly on Islam as Israel has on Judaism. So I don't think the kneejerk defense of Islam is quite as dangerous as the kneejerk defense of Judaism.
Analyzing imperialism is confusing right now because we are in a transitionary period where the USA is a declining power and many upstart capitalist nations are eager to steal the throne.
“religious minorities”
Muh nokka Islam is the worlds second largest religion and the fastest growing one
You leftists truly are brain fried
>>2947404Sadiq Jalal al-Azm might be worth looking into, although I don't know if his work touched on Islamic theology as such. Syrian Marxist.
>Al-Azm was at the center of a political controversy in December 1969 when he was arrested in absentia with his publisher by the Lebanese government; he had fled to Syria only to later return to Beirut to turn himself in, where he was jailed in early January 1970. He was charged for writing a book that aimed at provoking feuds among the religious sects of Lebanon. This was after publication in book form of various essays that previously appeared in journals, magazines and periodicals. Together, they comprised the 1969 book, Naqd al-Fikr al-Dini (Critique of Religious Thought) (Dar al-Taliah, Beirut). In it, Al-Azm's rebuke of political and religious leaders and the media who supported them for exploiting their populations' religious sentiments was relentless and made him enemies. He applied a Marxist-materialist critique to religion, not to discredit people's religious commitments, but to expose how "Arab regimes found in religion a crutch they could use to calm down the Arab public and cover-up for their incompetence and failure laid bare by the defeat, by adopting religious and spiritual explanations for the Israeli victory…."[8][…]
>Historian Albert Hourani characterizes Al-'Azm's writing as "a total rejection of religious thought."[10] Al-Azm was a critic of Edward Said's Orientalism, claiming that it essentialises 'the West' in the same manner that Said criticises imperial powers and their scholars of essentialising 'the East'. In a 1981 essay, Al-Azm wrote of Said: "the stylist and polemicist in Edward Said very often runs away with the systematic thinker … we find Said … tracing the origins of Orientalism all the way back to Homer, Aeschylus, Euripides and Dante. In other words, Orientalism is not really a thoroughly modern phenomenon, as we thought earlier, but is the natural product of an ancient and almost irresistible European bent of mind to misrepresent the realities of other cultures, peoples and their languages. … Here the author seems to be saying that the 'European mind', from Homer to Karl Marx and A.H.R.Gibb, is inherently bent on distorting all human realities other than its own."[citation needed]