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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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 No.296564[Last 50 Posts]

Dump all the seemingly pointless, dubious, and frivolous questions that don't deserve their own shitty threads.

Got a question that's probably been asked a million times before? You're in the right landfill, buddy. Post it here.

Threads that otherwise might go in here will eventually find themselves become merged to this thread.


Guess that it's then, requesting The Neuroscience of Intelligence as we speak. Having a braindead fascist in my head just makes me a liability.



Thoughts on this? I think it's garbage but I can't debunk it all myself


Anyone have the image of a woman wearing a DDR hat and uniform with big breasts next to a photo of Erich Honecker?


Leftypol, how do I farm you's



So i’ve been looking into the WEF’s plans for the world and it’s incredibly ambitious and overwhelming, so i ask. How much influence do these guys even have? Are the right wingers right to be afraid or are they just attacking a dumb yearly convention by porky?


File: 1708793669904-0.png (Spoiler Image, 1000.61 KB, 725x1024, Nadine Jensen.png)

File: 1708793669904-1.jpg (Spoiler Image, 151.92 KB, 698x1024, PASSK60.JPG)

I got u fam, and have another for your troubles


Quick question. How did Karl Marx define the concept of "production"


Other question, what do you guys think of the TPRF (Tendency of the rate of profit to fall), is there data about the concept for each country or the entire world?, good sources to learn about the subject?


It's important to get that the WEF is marketing this stuff. There's a base for it - it's not just rich guys "operating in secret", and they can recruit people eager to join the Fourth Reich. These people are centered around German interests and have really emphasized Eurocentrism in their approach to the "Reset", and they're representing a collection of interests who actually like that vision. It's not a small group.

The real power has nothing to do with marketing or which talking head is selling the program, but much of what they're proposing is the global plan - and the followers of this want to defend their stake in it, hence "stakeholder capitalism" as a way to sell the idea. They're not going to get shit unless they lick boot, because that's how Nazis operate. You can see a sort of competing camp around the British core and British liberalism, and they're "losing" - but in the main, these people all see themselves in the same thing, and share a hatred of the world and nations. It's not a singular "big club" but WEF would like to sell that image, while the liberals like selling the idea of chaos and opium. None of these people are really going to attack each other, but they'll get people attacking each other for lumps of horseflesh. That's the world they've wanted, and to drag everyone else into it.

Right now the Chinese have a lot of weight to decide how the world goes, whether to back a horse or keep the honkies at each others' throats. But they too are in hock to something bigger.


is there a thread about the disscussion of syndicalism and/or cooperativism?



Very nice 🙂


<But they too are in hock to something bigger.


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Does anyone know what this image is of?


I have write ten page paper on a non-american city of my choice anons except I haven't even picked a city yet so far I was thinking Chongqing cuz of the cool mountain infrastructure or one of the so called ghost cities to write a 10 page debunk of that whole propaganda point. Some other options I was thinking of were Raqqa,Jakarta and Mogadishu


FUCK I misclicked new reply before finishing, anyways If any anons have any suggestions on a city they think is cool that'd be great.


Appalachian Trail marker.


Having dumbass thoughts is normal. Unironically the manga "I want to hit women" is good at showing just how common the reactionary miasma is, and just how utterly banal it is. Recognize this pretense, don't be yet another hitlercore hipster.


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Complete noob to leftism here, saw this braindead reactionary "meme" that basically says 99% of people are le NPC cattle who only care about their immediate comfort and removing that comfort forces them to become "radicalized" bla bla bla. What I don't understand is how fashoids genuinely see themselves as "revolutionaries" fighting against teh "System", but I thought fascism and capitalism were two sides of the same coin, so why would they seemingly want to destroy their capitalist governments?


Opinions on anarchists?


>but I thought fascism and capitalism were two sides of the same coin,

Fascism is a particular expression of capitalism, much like social democracy. Fascism is what you get when placating the working class fails to forestall revolution.

> so why would they seemingly want to destroy their capitalist governments?

They don't. They just want capitalism that works "for the right people." Like, for them capitalism isn't producing all the things that make them miserable, it's the presence of undesirables infecting their culture, or greedy individuals overexploiting resources, or crooked politicians oppressing them, or whatever. So they want capitalism, but without the things which capitalism inherently produces, which they imagine will come about by replacing the Jews (or Transes or Jesuits or whatever) at the top with Their Guy™.


File: 1709248232995.jpg (229.15 KB, 1170x992, 20240103_015231.jpg)

check attached, it's pretty succinct


an extention of individualistic, bourgeois right given a faux revolutionary coat of paint through empty calls for an unripe and immaterial revolt. No amount of "theory" (moreso propaganda) or laborist mottos can change the fact that it is in entirety something that can only exist in idea, and even within that realm it fails to "justify" itself.
This is the only substantial critique one can make of anarchism, the rest is simply aestheticism and outside the point of critiquing it.


>Fascism is what you get when placating the working class fails to forestall revolution.
Eh, not quite. Keep in mind that in fascist Italy workers were given more rights than the liberal kingdom before it, as well as the women. Syndicates were given autonomy (though their revolutionary character was non existent), workers were allowed to organize around them and press the corporations for minor concessions, women were granted the same worker rights that had only been enjoyed by men before WWI, etc etc. Fascism is not necessarily a brutal dictatorship that murders workers and nothing else. To survive it needs a base, so fascism of yesteryear sought to fill the hole left by the liberal establishment and advance development and living standards within the confines of a certain capitalism. Though granted it was the petit bourgeoisie that gained most from fascism, the workers were also enticed to build a steady foundation for the new form of the bourgeois dictatorship.
>They don't. They just want capitalism that works "for the right people."
Again, it's an ehhh. There are genuine believers in fascist thought and ideology that propagate and expand on the ideology. Even the leaders were convinced of fascism and a third path beyond liberalism and communism and saw their modest reforms as a way toward that third path. We need not forget that fascist intellectuals were brought over from revisionist and chauvinist tendencies within the social democratic parties of the second international, so they shared the view of a constructive, gradual revolution toward socialism (or fascism in this case) through the common compromise of labor and capital. Many didn't care for capitalism and I'd say that's a genuine feeling, but that doesn't mean that long-term (much like social democracy of today) they don't serve the whims of capital. It's, really complicated lol.


social anarchists are cool af and do good praxis with some good theory. anyone else who calls themselves "anarchist" is usually just some solipsistic rich kid larper who think anarchy is when there a special boy and no one tells them what do.


/pol/yps literally think they are just better ppl than le normies. Also there crybaby bitches so seeing a random black dude is enough to make them think "le west has fallen". fashoids aren't coherent and never will be especially the /pol/ variety. to them getting mad on twitter abt childrens media is a genuine revolt against the modern world cuz their sheltered af in general.



why bourgeois and individualistic


"Anarchist doctrines are the expression of the following thesis: centralised power is evil; and they assume that the entire question of the liberation of the oppressed class can be resolved by getting rid of it. But for the anarchist, class is only an accessory concept. He wishes to liberate the individual, the person, and thereby conforms with the programme of the liberal and bourgeois revolution. He only reproaches the latter for having installed a new form of power, failing to see that this is merely the necessary consequence of the fact that it didn't have as its content and motive-force the liberation of the person or the citizen, but the achieving of dominion of a new social class over the means of production. Anarchism, libertarianism – is nothing other than classical revolutionary bourgeois liberalism plus something else (which they call local autonomy, administrative State, and entry of the working class into the constitutional powers). When such petty-bourgeois peccadilloes are grafted on to it, bourgeois liberalism, which in its time was a real and serious matter, becomes just an illusion with which to castrate the workers’ revolution.
[…] Those who substitute “people” for class, by prioritising the proletarian class above the party, believe they are rendering it a supreme homage whilst in fact they are declassing it, drowning it in “popular” confusion, and sacrificing it on the altar of counter-revolution."


Can I just discard Hegel? Is Hegelian philosophy necessary because it is important to understand Marx's starting point, or is it integral to Marxism? Frankly I find dialectics to be bizarre harebrained conjecture. Like I understand dialectical materialism to be a method of empirically studying history and society, but I do not understand why the ontology of a mush-mouthed German has to be central to it


you really needn't read Hegel. It's not required material, really. If you want to, you can, but Marx's deconstruction and critique of Hegel and the Hegelians is leagues more useful to your political education than some idealist philosopher.
Read the German Ideology to get a proper grasp at diamat and histmat, in that work as the preface of the "Communist Review" says: 'Marx brought Hegel's dialectic down from the heavens to the earth'. It's a pleasant read and not too heavy.


If one of the main features of Marxist and socialist thought is that it can and should be constantly rethought, corrected and updated for the times, then why is there such a concept as "revisionism" on the left? Isn't "revising" supposed to be a good thing? Calling something revisionist just seems to be code for "I don't like your idea so I'm just gonna call it revisionist", like a magical word signifying "le bad" instead of an actual critique or counter-argument.


Even more revisionist thinking!


I agree that the term itself is dumb but it describes a real phenomena of what you could call 'selling out" where say a socdem party will be like " ackshually we don't need revolution just vooot guys" could be called textbook revisinism where they have directly "revised" marxist theory by selectively ignoring the parts of marxist theory that just so happen to be the most radical. I think a better term would be "recuperated" or "reformist" since your right abt the one of main features of commie though being its ability to adapt and change to new material circumstances. Revisinism is like alotta pieces of jargon in the sense that it started out as describing and hyperspecific process but has been thrown around so much thats its lost all meaning. It's similar to how both the terms "SJW" and "tankie" started out as socialists mocking a very specific tendency within the broader movement but are now meaningless catch all terms almost exclusively used by liberals and reactionaries.


Did the US supply both sides with weapons and intelligence during the iran-iraq war? I swg I remember reading that the US would give both sides intelligence, but with ddg and google so enshittified I can't find shit on it.


Where did neoliberalism originate and how did it come to dominate the world?


PDF related is a good source on this topic.


It's a stupid term. Doesn't mean all "interpretations" of marxism are correct, though.


there's that fbi.gov server "international socialist library" or whatever that's officially headed by guys who support mussolini i think
whats up with that?


neoliberalism actually doesnt exist
the word was invented by some people (they were white) who thought they were being clever but they were just academics or something try reading wikipedia


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Has anyone used XuetangX? It's a Chinese equivalent to Coursera. A major disappointment on my end is that they have no English courses on Marxism.





I am the master baiter, not you. Go back to plebbit.


communism is inevitable.

socialism may have "lost" in the 20th century, but we WILL try it again until it is worldwide, capitalism is unacceptable and unsustainable


Since /leftypol/ is your fishing ground it means you play on easy mode therefore you ain't master of shit.


Who said I only do it here?


I don't want to retry MLism, I want to try something different


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>I'm not trying to initiate or convince anyone of an ideological position, I'm asking a genuine question. Why would you defend an ideology that has failed every time it has been tried?


>Why would you defend an ideology that has failed every time it has been tried?
Depending on your definition of socialism (it's a broad movement), there are places like Chiapas where it has stayed strong and fought against liberal encroachment for decades. On a scale of hundreds of thousands of citizens, and territory larger than many conventional countries.


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>>hundreds of different type of Socialism
How do you not know this?
There were many dozens of types even a century ago.


>why socialism
Because capitalism doesn't work


well yes but clearly state socialism doesnt either
isnt there some kind of way we can find a more moderate socialist alternative that is non capitalist but also non planned


that moment when you realize only libertarian socialism works


Is it possible to go backwards in the teleology? Like can humanity "revert" back to feudalism?


Absolutely. This may happen due to natural or man made catastrophies like war. Plenty civilizations have collapsed and the areas governed became more primitive.


does anyone know if its true that the chinese embassy will send you theory books if you hit them up? I saw some posts where ppl allegedly got a copy of the governance of china from the embassy for free but was wondering if any anons here tried doing so or knew of some sort of precedent to this practice. either that or its a hoax and im actively being duped.


What do you have to lose by just trying it yourself? You're already on a government watch list by posting here.


What the fuck is the Spectacle?


The image of the thing rather than the thing itself, basically a simulation you're intended to live through vicariously as a substitute and replacement for the real social thing or activity.


>The image of the thing rather than the thing itself
You're thinking of simulacrum, probably.
>wtf is the Spectacle?
“autocratic reign of the market economy which had acceded to an irresponsible sovereignty, and the totality of new techniques of government which accompanied this reign.” French autistic shit.
I'd say; the all encompassing capitalist culture/reality which through every part of our lives are mediated.


Is philosophy a intellectual contrarianism or contrarian intellectualism?


It is in the first instance and most of all a very queer endeavor.


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Religion for faggots too pussy to say that god gave them some kind of divine inspiration. Although they aren't very far off from claiming divine inspiration from god.


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Well, I get my inspo from the Devil himself.
I'll still shoot the bastard in the cock when I see them for what happened last Thursday. Fucking descendant of a whore.
Fuck, this isn't my medication, these are brain AAAAAAIDS pills.
Don't lay with Lucifer. It's not for beginners.


Is "economy" a material object or an abstract Idea of how the world Works? Is economy not materialistic but idealist?


Yes, a concept, an abstraction.
The economy is (supposed to be) productive activity. There are traditionally three sectors: 1) extraction (pulling shit out of the ground), 2) manufacturing (processing of that shit) and 3) service (basically everything else).
Economics is the science of the allocation of scarce resources.
All the cool kids are not doing economics but political economy.


You sound like a bourgeois economist. Economy is (any) society's reproduction scheme, which is broken down into production and distribution.
>Economics is the science of the allocation of scarce resources.
Wrong. Economics is the study of societal reproduction and augmentation.


If I was a bourgeois economist could I do this *backflips*
I was searching for the most basic definitions here. Of course there are concepts overlayed on concepts overlayed on concepts.
>Economics is the study of societal reproduction and augmentation.
>reproduction scheme
This is already political economy. I specifically endorsed political economy.


why are there no french threads? Or japanese threads, or indian threads, or russian threads? Like, where are the french people, the japanese, the russians. I see there is brasilian, a latin america, german, britain, italy and chinese, but where are the other countries?


open the catalog, retard


/ukraine/, /subcontinent/ are right here


yes, the glorious nation of Ukraine conquered ruZZia already, they even conquered the thread on leftypol


i did not see any french or japanese speaking threads, or any thread where they speak those languages


there are many countries out there with different languages, yet i don't see they represented in their own distinct threads, so again i ask, is anyone here Japanese, or French?


It's simply a question of there being enough speakers to populate such threads.


any resources for new users? everything seems so confusing rn


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I wonder if there are any Japanese image/text boards for Communism.
There's /kyousan/ on 5ch but its just autistic netouyo fighting a few libs who support the J"""C"""P.


Do you mean for the site or for communism?



Today is the anniversary of Comrade Marx's passing.

Today is also Dr. Einstein's birthday.

Today is also White Day.

Today is also another ordinary day.Wishing you a wonderful day.






Is Cockshott actually worth reading/taking seriously?

I've seen both other Marxist economists and bourgeois economists rag on his methods/arguments


Im reading one of michael hudson's book and in one segment he writes:

Fascism emerges when other parties demur from reforms that the popula-
tion wants and is ready for. That is how Trotsky explained Hitler’s Nation-
al Socialists seizing the initiative in the post-1929 economic collapse. Al-
though Germany’s Communist Party had a million members under arms
in 1930, Stalin directed its leaders not to fight against the Nazis but to form
a common front with them. The party suffered a large exodus of members,
and soon was wiped out.

is it true that stalin directed the leaders of the german communist party to form of common front with them?


Does he cite any sources for this in the book?


Where did slavoj zizek go? Did he die? I don't see him anymore anywhere. Was he not the "new thing" of left hegelianism or something?


eh, his method is neo-ricardian "lmao let's put market in a black box", but TANS is pretty interesting book/idea. It at least tries to engage with "calculation problem" at terms of those who introduced "the problem" btfo'ing it on mathematical side, where most marxists just say that entire idea is non-applicable.

Read it, but read it critically, because it has little to do with marxist method.


can someone answer my question please, still confused on where to start


got rejected unanimously by everyone on the radical left as he revealed how much he loved nato and liberalism


we used to have a recommended reading list but I dunno where it went
the manifesto, and critique of the gotha programe are usually recommended as short and easy reading basis for communism
for the site, well this is an imageboard, anyone can post anonymously, but you can just lurk thread relevant to your interest


File: 1710564432014.jpg (59.84 KB, 600x520, Brezhnev-on-the-phone.jpg)

How did this photo came to be? Or is it fake?


I was looking for information about "Utopian socialists" after te 19 century. It seems that Utopia is a subject created in all periods of time and civilizations, but from the "Marxists.org" archive i could not find a modern aproach to the idea of an new utopian socialist society, at least that is more original then the perspectives of 20 and 19 century people. Is "Utopian socialism" ded?


it's real. brezhnev was fond of swimming. one day while swimming he got a phone call. there was a landline near the pool. He got out of the pool to answer the phone. He is in his 70s I believe in this picture, he doesn't look unusual for a man in his 70s. I have seen many elderly people and they often just look like this.


>Is "Utopian socialism" ded?
Basically, yes. The scientific socialism of Marx and Engels killed the utopian socialists.




i've gotta be honest, I still don't really understand how marxism is scientific


We Marxoids are more popular than them, therefore, we're more scientific. Tell me, when was the last time you see anyone identify themselves with the philosophy of Owenism? Didn't think so.


Isn't like, Robert owens considered the main founder of the cooperativist movement? He is still quite important, not as much as marx. Also Marx said good things about owens


claiming philosophy as a subset of religion is an obvious troll move. It's clearly the other way around. religion is a subcategory of philosophy. Philosophy is much more general than religion and encompasses the presuppositions of both religion and science


It's not scientific in the modern sense of the word. It's scientific in the 19th century "wissenschaft" sense of the word. People who try to conflate the two are confusing what are essentially different definitions used by the same word.


math is a subset of phil too


Yeah he said good things about Utopian socialists, but repudiated the utopian parts of their ideology. That's how a constructive critique works. You plant seeds in the gardens which others grew, while clearing out the weeds.


(good) philosophy is just abstractly applied math, and the rest is effectively a subset of religion


Nope. math is applied philosophy. It is a highly useful subset of philosophy, but its fundamental axioms are philosophical constructs, nonetheless. It is out of necessity. Humans begin philosophizing about nature and reality in history long before they arrive at useful mathematical constructions which form the foundation of counting, arithmetic, geometry, algebra, etc.


So does that mean Popper was right to say that Marxism isn't falsifiable?


I don't know. I don't find the question of Marxism's falsifiability that interesting. It's very useful for constructing repeatable experiments. Marxism isn't about being a falsifiable science, it's about improving the lives of the working class by getting them to apply political principles in action, now, rather than later. There is a sense of urgency to Marxism.


Would it be correct to say that all the socialist movements that don't have any resemblance with marx are utopian socialists or not even socialists at all?


I don't know. I may have over-emphasized Marx's "killing" of utopian socialism. It might be more accurate to say that political practice made it less relevant and Marx more relevant. It's a bit idealist of me to attribute the death of a type of philsophy to one man writing. Really it's more that the utopian ideas were put into practice throughout the 19th century, and the cruel realities of capitalist backlash made them irrelevant. Utopian socialism was built on a lot of idealist presuppositions, like capitalists becoming kinder and gentler, like society evolving in a direction to treat workers better without violence. I think the closest thing I've seen to utopian socialism in modern time was the "venus project" from Jacque Fresco in Florida, who died a few years back at the age of 100-something.


It is useful to compare these with an analogy to a field of science such as medicine - a surgeon may choose to be a surgeon out of any reason from personal greed for wealth to pure altruism, but insofar as they study and perform surgery they do so on objective, non-moral grounds.


Thanks for the awnser man


this is my take, maybe it's a brainlet take, but it's how I've always thought of it.



he was right about that but wrong that it matters at all. popper and similar retarded philosophers of science just dogmatically believe that logical positivism is the only legitemate scientific methodology to the exclusion of all others, and they never convincingly justify their position. in most ways, science is just a synonym for methodology. positivism has an important role in experimental methodology but it cant convincingly apply anything beyond that, and theres no reason it should be expected to. darwin and freud didnt work in positivism and no serious person denies their scientific contributions, but the same people will consider marxist economics & historical materialism "unscientific" on the grounds of it being non-positivist simply because they dont like the implications of marxism


Thanks! Makes sense.


What is "Epistemological anarchism"? Is it relevant? Is it good?


in line with what i said here >>1797468, epistemological anarchism doesnt only claim that different methodologies are useful in different contexts, but more controversially claims that there are not and cant be universally applicable/effective methods of acquiring knowledge. i dont have any strong opinion on its being good or bad, but i think it is easily compatible with marxism and historical materialism in the sense that knowledge & the context it emerges from/the way it is structured is not transhistorical. that said, i dont think marxism itself necessitates or implies epistemological anarchy, only that they arent in contradiction. there are certainly other epistemological frameworks just as compatible with marxism.


Ok, thanks for the awnser again


Can someone explain relative surplus value?. I asked this in the capital thread on /edu/ but I don't think anyone goes on there anymore.


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mm yes quite dialectical



Absolute surplus value is the surplus value generated by increasing the length of the Working day, thus increasing the surplus labour time.

Relative surplus value is the surplus value generated by cutting wages or reducing the cost of living, thus reducing workers’ Necessary labour time in proportion to the surplus value extracted.


Oh I didn't realize it was that simple. Not to hate on the big M but I wish he had worded some of his concepts a little better…


this is a very common criticism of Marx and partly I agree and another part of me just wonders if it sounds more sensible in the original German


how did the US got to the moon first?
they had nazi technology and nazi scientists or something like that?


I got literally zero replies on the China general so I'd figure I would try posting this here as well:

Does anyone know any good books about the city of Tianjin or just northeast china in general?


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hi i'm new here

what's the difference between liberalism and leftism?

and why are people on the political left called "liberals" if they're not actually leftists and not actually liberals (they're neoliberals)


Have you tried reading a book?



Well that's why you suck


leftist=we want socialism
liberal=we don't want socialism


liberalism = the state should do some things
leftism = the state should do more things


File: 1711195126564.jpg (113.63 KB, 512x664, 1705828225728.jpg)

Liberalism in contemporary Marxist terms usually refers to an ideological position that will, in practice, defend capitalism over communism under any circumstances.
Leftism is a broader term that, in the common sense definition, either mean socially progressive (e.g. in defense of minority groups), or in defense of heavy market regulation/social welfare, or both. In Marxist terms, however, it can either mean the revolutionary political field (communists and anarchists), or pejoratively to self-proclaimed revolutionaries that cling to idealism as a frame of political analysis.



File: 1711214503631-0.jpg (295.42 KB, 903x1283, class_id_chart.jpg)

File: 1711214503631-1.png (21.38 KB, 918x375, bourgeois flowchart.png)

Is it bourgeois to…

>have more than $50,000 in savings, even if you saved it over 10 years working a working class job

>bought a few stocks (less than 1k worth)
>have a retirement plan
>have no student loan debt because you found a decent job through a room mate when you were young
>have more free time than the average person
>not need to borrow money from your parents like most people from your generation
>not need to move back in with your parents like most people from your generation
>have parents that actually borrow from you because you're wealthier than them and they're impoverished due to taking out bad sub prime mortgages in the 00s


>what's the difference between liberalism and leftism?
liberalism is capitalist.
"leftism" supposedly is anti-capitalist (it's really a vague catchall term for socialists, communists, and anarchists).
> why are people on the political left called "liberals" if they're not actually leftists and not actually liberals (they're neoliberals)
this is a thing in america mostly


File: 1711214864106.png (166.29 KB, 425x495, adam smith2.png)

>the lib drops adam smith
he didn't read smith in the first place


>hey maybe imperial core NATO countries should stop bombing muslim countries back to the stone age as it causes the common people in those countries to rally around fundamentalist right wing leaders rather than progressing in their secular proletarian class consciousness
so fucking tired of this. been hearing this since 2001.


File: 1711263277800.png (280.36 KB, 768x512, ClipboardImage.png)

>Abrahamism is a triple headed Hydra with Islam being the most Feudal.
you have confused superstructure for base. Those countries remained feudal in the modern era because they are in a less developed part of the world, not because their religion made them more feudal. China was still feudal in 1910 but nobody blames indigenous Chinese religion for that.


I don't know any books personally, but looking at the citations list on wikipedia for the page for the city of Tianjin might be an OK start.
I know I know, but a city is relatively uncontroversial on its own so you might find decent sources


So, i was in university and tried to explain the class system to a worker. I did not had much time to go in details, and the guy did not stop talking about how "He doesn't feel that there is exploitation", how "one person wealth doesn't bother him, nor the existence of the billionaires", and that he is just a good worker, and gets good pay. Them, he tried to teach me about meritocracy and etc, about moralism and god. How do you introduce socialism and marxism to someone like that? I want the workers to have class conscience of the capitalist system and to form a workers syndicate, but i don't know how to start them to recomend books that 100% they will not bother to read


I think the key thing is that you should not make up things that didn't happen in order to be an epic troll on the internet, especially if everybody can see what you are doing because you are too autistic to tell a realistic story.


Saying that i am lying does not help. Anyway, It doesnt matter anyhow, is not like i can convince university libs to adopt marxism leninism


I just found it funny that people can really believe there is no such thing as exploitation in capitalism


And what was that worker that does not read working at in the university?


I mean, he is not going to read Karl marx man. he is not going to read Lenin, or i guess, nothing socialist in any way


i could just show some infographs about world inequality, about the enviromental disaster that will kill most of the world population, or something like that, but then i would just sound like a liberal democrat or just soc/dem


>How do you introduce socialism and marxism to someone like that?
you don't


How does leftypol explain massacres against striking workers in the Soviet Union?
>The Novocherkassk massacre (Russian: Новочеркасский расстрел, romanized: Novocherkasskiy rasstrel) was a massacre which was committed by the Soviet army and KGB against unarmed civilians who were rallying on 2 June 1962 in the Soviet city of Novocherkassk



Red Plenty brings up Novocherkassk as well. it's a tragedy. it's also a lesson in proper pricing. avoid subsidies and don't change prices too fast


>source: Top Secret KGB Report




Can dictatorship of proletariat exist under capitalism?


File: 1711587784357.png (319.38 KB, 567x569, as.png)

Reading one of Michael Hudson's book and towards the end he talks about obsolescence function and how the tendency of more advanced energy sources and technological efficiency not only replaces labor but renders them obsolete in the same way horse labor is obsolete.
Does that mean the old model of Marxian model of the reserve army of the unemployed is outdated? Modern labor is too 'skilled' even for manual labors so they're left to their own devices as welfare recipients rather than be a potential demand for low wage labor for capitalists who dont have any use for them.


the DotP is just a form of government, the relations of society is a very different thing. Socialism is essentially just that, the DotP resolving the various contradictions of capitalism until Communism can be reached. Until communism is reached, capitalist elements will remain.



>“If Korea’s birth rate remains low, the country will face extinction,”

>“This is a matter of the country’s survival,”

>“Korea is facing an unprecedented crisis,”

>“The issue is the intense competitive pressure that young Korean women and men are both under, whether that’s in education, in the labour market, or in the housing market,” Lee added.

>“They grew up doing nothing but study, watching their mothers struggle to get them into after-school academies and their fathers struggle to make enough money. The result is they feel less attachment to the concept of family — they don’t want the same life for themselves or their children.”

Is neoliberalism just a death cult?


Proles are expendable and interchangeable as far as the wealthy are concerned. It doesn't matter what happens to South Korea because the wealthy will be able to afford whatever the want/need even as the rest of the country collapses in on itself.


Why do people choose to procreate in such a hyperbusineness environment like that?

Youre just continuing the cycle.


File: 1711614841889.png (160.23 KB, 305x300, mfw8.png)

>occupied korea is so depressing it's self-imploding from demographic collapse


u commie retards often think this way but in reality the status rarely transcends national borders why do u think the bourgeoisie would stoop to paying proles for having children if they could retain their privileges for free u moron?


also the solution to the demographic problem is very easy (tax lavish consumption heavily and consumption in general push for state funded facilities that offload parents and make children form mutual relationships that aren't based on monetary incentives) but it'll never work in an individualistic liberal purgatory though the only way remains importing people from faraway countries that neoliberalism hasn't fucked over yet but the proles don't like that


I need data about the "Tendency of the rate of profit to fall", is there any scientific indication for this phenomenon?


What is the single most important principle that defines communism?


What do you mean by scientific? You mean empirical?


I mean like, data, like graphs and stuff, to prove it, by some ecnomics institute, idk. Even a book about the subject would help honestly


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First of all, I'm American, so my concerns and opinions in this thread are coming from an American perspective, so European countries for example may not experience some issues I'm discussing. Also when I'm using the term "immigrant" that is implied to refer to impoverished immigrants from third world nations, so I'm not referring to British or German immigrants.

I'm no expert on leftist theory, or even a leftist at all for that matter, but I wanted the Socialist/Communist opinions on this practice that I find self-contradictory. I only have a cursory knowledge on leftist theory, but I thought that Socialists and/ Communists advocate for better working conditions, higher wages, etc…
I know that not all Socialists or Communists are pro-immigration, but the ones who do advocate for it seem to be betraying the working class, and they seem like hypocrites to me. I can understand the Socialists and Communists who oppose immigration and they seem to be ideologically consistent with my knowledge of leftist theory, but those who advocate for increased immigration make no sense to me at all.
Increased immigration from countries with lower living standards means that the laborers have less negotiating power. Strikes are made less effective because this larger pool of applicants allows the "Capitalist pigs" that you guys seem to hate to ignore the demands of strikers. They can also get away with paying the immigrants who replaced the strikers less money, and these immigrants who hail from more impoverished countries are accustomed to inferior working conditions and generally do not complain about the fact that they are being exploited. Some of these laborers are also illegal, so if they ever raise any complaints about the working conditions, the boss always has the threat of reporting their illegality to the government.
From how I see it, EVERYONE loses from mass migration except the assholes up top.
The "native" workers lose bargaining power and their strikes are much less effective.
The new immigrant workers aren't aware that they are being exploited because they have grown accustomed to poor working conditions after living in their third-world nations for years. "Even though the conditions we're working in aren't ideal, it sure beats sweatshop labor", they reason, or so I think.
The only one who wins here is the rich asshole who now doesn't have to spend nearly as much on his workers, doesn't have to care about improving their working situations because they have less bargaining power, doesn't have to increase their wages, because he can get away with hiring impoverished immigrants who will be more readily accepting to his greedy ways.
From this logic, it would make more sense for the anti-capitalist leftists to oppose mass immigration, and while there do exist Nativist leftists who oppose mass immigration, the whole concept of a leftist who advocates for workers rights and simultaneously wants more immigration seems ridiculous and contradictory.
Pic unrelated I just didn't have any saved that would add to this topic.


>The theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property
>Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of thing
>One of the most vital principles of communism, a princi­ple which distinguishes it from all reactionary socialism, is its empiric view, based on a knowledge of man’s nature, that differences of brain and of intellectual capacity do not imply any differences whatsoever in the nature of the stomach and of physical needs; therefore the false tenet, based upon existing circumstances, “to each according to his abilities”, must be changed, insofar as it relates to enjoyment in its narrower sense, into the tenet, “to each according to his needs”; in other words, a different form of activity, of labour, does not justify inequality, confers no privileges in respect of possession and enjoyment
>Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriation.
>In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labour, and with it also the antithesis between mental and physical labour, has vanished, after labour has become not only a livelihood but life’s prime want, after the pro­ductive forces have also increased with the all-round development of the individual, and all the springs of co­ operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs!


File: 1711862843168.png (139.99 KB, 1086x355, ClipboardImage.png)

how does one fill in the variables in this equation cockshott created for measuring TRPF while taking into account contervailing tendencies?


I want to shitalk Milei out of existance. I want to show facts and news so i can burry him to the ground with facts and logic. I want to behead ancaps, specially the ones that support Milei, so that they become spineless social-dem after the trauma i will do to them.

I know i could just google the news about him, but there is so much information that i am losing because i don't speak spanish, and because most useful information is lost in the sea of fake news and liberal-capitalist propaganda machine. Are there any good articles, new information not much know in western media about Argentina today?


What makes the majority of the online left so obsessed with defending places like Neoliberal Russia, Islamic Iran or Dengist China? They would die on a hill defending competing forms of capitalism abroad that had destroyed the left in those respective countries.
Has the bourgeoisie finally convinced the proletarian that capitalism is a phenomenon that happens overseas and they have to pick their favourite "lesser evil" to "critically support"? That capitalism isn't a social relation that takes place everyday in their own countries and effects them personally?
It's insane how brainwashed some people are, they're mindless cheerleaders appropriating revolutionary aesthetics. It sometimes feel like I'm the only principled leftist online. How can I feel solidarity for a group that supports the reactionary oppressive forces which are cannibalising me and my community in the name of "lesser evilism"? The condescension makes me almost choke. I have no doubt the leftists in countries like Russia, China and Iran feel the same way as I do.
Please don't take this as an attack, I'm truly interested in discussing this topic with utmost civility.(Low Effort B8)


They upset monopoly capital. They are overthrowing capitalism


You are being cannibalized by Iran, Russia, and China?


Unfortunately over the past few years the dominant strain of thinking among the anglophone online 'left' has become uncritical 'critical' support of bourgeois dictatorships in competition with america wherein they cover for their own total lack of organisation and struggle against capitalism by demanding from the proletariat of the global south to shut up and take it up the ass from their national bourgeoisie in the name of 'multipolarity' at which point they will surely get off their asses. Pseudo-communists with no revolutionary program, no marxist analysis, just weakness, contempt and a desire to 'win' vicariously by relishing in the coercive violence of bourgeois dictatorships they don't happen to live in.


The ultimate sectarian.
Is very hard to fight the radlibs, stay here in leftypol for a litle while, you will understand our geopolítical views. Be patient, read the facts. Dont consume only western propaganda


>a bourgeois country fighting for their share of the capital cake is "upsetting le monopoly" therefore "communists" have to support them


How does saying you like china or dont like china effect your organizing? You say they are distracting from their lack of effective organizing by praising china, but aren't you doing the same by blaming your lack of effective organization on china and its fans?


You're wasting the proletariat's efforts on non-issues instead of actual organizing. It isn't that hard.


But you are wasting them just as much whining about china.


Telling allegedly communist organizations to work on actually organizing the working class as one instead of geopolitical bullshit isn't that, lmao.


A lot of "the left" doesn't actually have a goal, they're just a cool kids club. Their goal is being communist instead of enacting communism, so to speak. This isn't unique to today or being online, many real communist parties have failed because of this tendency. Critique of the Gotha Program is partly about it. It's just how it is.


Because the orthodoxy hasn't evolved beyond the 20th century and lives in a past where paradise wasn't lost. The United States needs to lose but in the desperation to create the conditions for such a loss, many on the left forget they have been colonized by the capitalism they so readily oppose.


Communists keep winning, impressive! >>1816936


File: 1712616707955.jpg (90.97 KB, 786x960, camatte.jpg)

because everybody implicitly knows communism lost
it's either historical reenactment larping or desperately clinging to any contemporary movement that *might* make things better in some way


history is dialectical. communism won, then lost and will probably win and lose again. and so on, until capitalism is no more.


So communism actually existed anywhere? Where? From what year to what year?


Gosh OP I had no idea that Langley was in the Global South


i guess there is the third option of being a complete retard who doesn't understand anything


>average leftynaz/pol/ sees rare newfriend with standard ML communist party program worldview come and make thread asking why this is such a dwindling dumpsterfire with shit takes and zero energy xitter (competing state agency bot farms) copy-paste "discourse"
>"you are…uhm… séhtarianne"

OP just keep going IRL, there is nothing to be found online.
Except for ebooks, bookmark marxists.org, library genesis, etc. That's it. You will do fine with the rest of the communists that actual do things in reality, engaging in workers struggles and assembling the revolutionary vanguard.

Much better than the western petty bourg undesirables that clasp on to communities like these and dominate 90% of its discourse (because they don't organize, don't mobilize, are pampered by imperial core bribes and satisfied by them; are guided exclusively towards "social" media "activity" online in which they fester and proactively expel revolutionary proletarian contribution in exchange for labor aristocrat and bourgeois ideological currents which of course win out because anglo anti-Marxist settlers-colonialist NEETs misogynists proliferate this culture ("chan culture")).


prehistory - 200.000 to 10.000 BC
russia - 1918-1921
cambodia - 1975 to 1979


>engaging in workers struggles and assembling the revolutionary vanguard
nice larp


i wish the majority of this board didn't have a stick up their ass


Thanks guppy


I think part of it is a desire to "win" as a reaction to defeat at trying to do something socialist at home + the process of negative polarization contra liberal jingos who defeated them. Like here in the U.S., the belly of the beast, Bernie Sanders was just a lukewarm social democrat and people can debate all that, but it wouldn't shock me if a lot of people here who push multipolarism and pro-Z stuff on the internet (not to say those are a lot of people) were just Bernie fans a few years ago. I know some of them were.

There is a persuasive argument for multipolarism though in a demented accelerationist sense. Like it creates openings where revolution is more possible. It's basically when Lenin said that there are periods of unity in the imperialist camp, but then they are moments where the new alliances and powers develop and then inter-imperialist competition breaks out again, and it's inevitable because capitalism CANNOT do away with competition whether between individuals, companies, or countries. But I don't think Lenin saw that as, like, a *demand* to agitate for. Or rooting for Imperial Germany to prevail. It more changes the strategy of revolution. "It is not the business of socialists to help the younger and stronger robber (Germany) to rob the older and overgorged robber. Socialists must take advantage of the struggle between the robbers to overthrow them all." That inter-imperialist rivalry can also lead to catastrophic wars and be really ugly as the different ruling regimes try to smash all alternatives at home is also left out. Like, what are you going to do? Overthrow the bourgeoisie from behind their backs while they're not looking? No, they're going to throw you in prison or draft you into the army. The USSR, however imperfect or self-interested, also at least represented global labor. This is just all capitalist.


I wonder who is killing Palestinians right now.


Israel, the huge benefactor of McChina's capitalist internationalism since they overthrew socialism half a century ago.
Oh, I think you wanted me to single out only the the western end of capitalist imperialism responsible for Israel's existence right? I'm so sorry…


>longest period of communism was 4 years in cambodia.
Damn, well at least they lasted longer than catalonia.



i'm a leftist from the global south, and sympathizing with BRICS isn't the great sin you make it out to be, if you understand that they're still capitalist states and ultimately not on our side. If there's someone who believes Putin is going to found USSR 2.0, that's an ignorance problem.

truth is, everyone who is a leftist outside the west is so fed up with USA world police. and those countries are doing something against it.


I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you, but should we really throw the baby out with the bathwater?

'social' media has given the international proletariat an unprecedented opportunity for communication and organising. But it seems like this opportunity is being wasted. I like the example of how Lenin struggled to get his writing outside of his cell that he had to come up with so many elaborate ways to do it, and in the end his movement won. While we have it so much easier yet we still can't effectively organise, even on a local level it is usually very limited in scope.


>If there's someone who believes Putin is going to found USSR 2.0, that's an ignorance problem.
More like a strawman problem becayse no one says that.


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>neoliberal russia
because we're propagandised with "fascist putler communism" all the time.
>islamic iran
because we don't want wars for oil. the us has no credibility on middle east conflicts
>dengist china
proved that you can have economic and industrial development while raising people out of poverty and the standard of living
>blah blah u dum
shut the fuck up libtard and die in a hole.


Also by your logic the UN or the Red Cross is socialist for funding charity and humanitarian aid. Socialism has no meaning to you because you do not care for it or the end of imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism (of which relations you clearly ignore, being mired in idealism).
China, as a result of their rightist peaceful coexistence foreign policy, funds bourgeois governments against proletarian revolutionary movements. This is because a temporary class war in those countries would hurt the social-imperialist return on investments of China.
See China-Duterte relations, China-Myanmar relations, China-Modhi relations, China-Pinochet relations.


Holy shit, China sends Israel weapons??!


File: 1712620327704.png (756.66 KB, 806x911, ClipboardImage.png)


you think people don't believe that?



File: 1712620625145.png (29.16 KB, 1802x231, ClipboardImage.png)

Lol, just scroll up and you can read the doubters again.


petite-bourgeois origins and academia wankering i would say. most left-leaning bourgeois academia is either chavista and/or structuralist (they are two faces of the same degenerated coin, but thats another issue) and that ideological perspective oozes within mainstream left-wing politics
the dead weight on their heads like a nightmare, one could say, and have little to no compromise or interest in analyzing their own material conditions and organizing irl


China will not "give everything cuba needs"
Cuba is not a beggar nation, is a technology, growing economy, that have one of the best human conditions on south america in the world, relying on economic relations to BRICS.


>proved that you can have economic and industrial development while raising people out of poverty and the standard of living
<Socialism is when good things
Glory to Otto Von Bismarck and Scandinavian "socialism"! The two most authentic socialists of the world!


File: 1712620861115.png (1.24 MB, 976x549, ClipboardImage.png)

But Putin is actually keeping Cuba afloat. They'd bwe in famine if not for the millions of tons of grain he gifted them.


My country was invaded by the US. Don't preach to me about America bad, because however much hatred you hold for it, it is insurmountable to mine. Still I'm able to recognize that a capitalist economic bloc like BRICS does nothing to further the cause of progressive movements inside those countries, in fact it does the opposite by strengthening the national bourgeoisie. It replaces class consciousness with nationalism and anti-capitalism with anti-americanism, as if the US is in any way exceptional aside from its favourable geographic position. We are now seeing many BRICS countries already practicing imperialism, most notably China and its ever growing foreign capital investments, often to the direct determinant of the workers movements such as the case in the Philippines and Nepal.
>critical support meme
We all know that 99% of Tankies who use that term actually mean "critical" as in crucial and essential.

Imagine if Lenin was content with Tsarist Russia because west bad. Have these people read a single book page by Lenin?


File: 1712621160345.png (276.19 KB, 656x679, ClipboardImage.png)

I am actually the more hardcore Marxist because I recognize Engels, Lenin, Mao, Trotsky, Stalin, Castro, Fidel all as revisionists.


>you don't understand comrade, they're justified in beheading commies because CNN said they're bad.
Uphold Marxism-Contrarianism


one of us had to say it. thanks comrade
t. also a third worlder


File: 1712621195026.png (362.39 KB, 606x436, (you).png)


same, ironically


Nah, Trotsky was cooking.


>We are now seeing many BRICS countries already practicing imperialism, most notably China and its ever growing foreign capital investments, often to the direct determinant of the workers movements such as the case in the Philippines and Nepal.

Cool, you fall for the "Brics" imperialism. Cool


Kind of stinks of revisioning if you ask me. Anytime a guynstarts writing about marxism at all he is in danger of revisioning. Ok maybe a little light commentary, but you better not be trying to inject any original thoughts in you fucking revisionists.


its a bourgeois block, you daft, obtuse moron
imagine supporting the etente or the axis during ww1 and justifying yourself as one being "more socialist" than the other. textbook chauvinism


>It replaces class consciousness with nationalism and anti-capitalism with anti-americanism
What country constantly couped left-wing governments around the globe the last 80 years?


File: 1712621818550.png (45.9 KB, 250x350, 165.png)


>uhmm bro you don't understand you have to support your US-backed neoliberal regime because it is ostensibly anti-west otherwise you will get coup'ed
Nice circle logic


Most South american and african countries prefer trading with BRICS because China will invest in infraestructure and real development. For the first time in history the east has become richer then the west. Industrialization and less dependencies from the west are essential to national independence. Brics works for the development of both sides of the agreement, not one sided relations of imperialism from the west. Show any country that has more then 5-10% of debt to China. The chinese "debt trap" is a lie by the liberal media. Cope and seethe


fun fact: did you know that some of these dictatorial pro-american governments, like fulgencio batistas dictatorship were supported by the ussr? or that some of these coups, like the one in argentina, had the green light from moscow?
i guess class struggle is more than just countries invading countries. next time paraguay gets in a war with brazil, we have to support the paraguayan bourgeois because paraguay never invaded anything. never mind the working class, what matters are countries


I'm for Lenin.


Do you think “bourgeois” is a synonym for “evil”?


Mask-off moment, HAHAHAHA
Just wanted to wait until you cry about the USSR.


>For the first time in history the east has become richer then the west.
Im not sure thats true


File: 1712622175698.png (976.2 KB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

>US-backed neoliberal regime
>ostensibly anti-west


>next time paraguay gets in a war with brazil, we have to support the paraguayan bourgeois because paraguay never invaded anything. never mind the working class, what matters are countries

What are you even talking about at this point. I am starting to doubt you are from the third world after all.


Well BRICS gdp surpassedvthe g8


no. class struggle, ever heard of it?
mask off about what? i critically support the soviet model. your logic is baseless


How do you do fellow people from the third-world.
Did you know communism bad?
#debunked #victimsofcommunismfoundation


Is it class struggle to get mad at the global south for getting better developed?


Of course he’s not, if there’s one thing that unites the imperial periphery it’s their hatred of the rapacious Anglo-American imperialism complex. Yet mister “totally from the global south” wants us to believe that akshully the third world loves America and liberalism


File: 1712622546339.png (13.23 KB, 700x400, MENA_map.png)

>death to amerikkka or something
>World Bank and IMF gibs? Don't mind if I do :)))


File: 1712622629343.jpg (46.9 KB, 500x500, elon-shivon-twins.jpg)

As a third worlder from a BRICS nation I think America good akshually.


>class struggle
Move past the 1940’s any time kid


>if someone criticizes me and i run out of arguments it means theyre lying reactionaries
children like you are why people think socialists are retards
the brics is a geopolitical block of national bourgeois, what does it had to do with development? our countries are shitholes because of them, not because of "the global north". in fact, china wants to turn my country into a massive pig farm. WOW much technological advance


I am from Brasil, and i can, without a doubt, confirm that there are only 2 types of people. BRICS CHADS and "We need to sell Brasil to USA, they will do neoliberal stuff and send man to die for Israel, that is so cool!".


Funny because Morocco is the oldest US ally.


>not because of "the global north"
Holy fucking shit, HAHAHAHA


you and lula can fuck off and die. social democracts breeds fascists like bolsonaro


>our countries are shitholes because of them, not because of "the global north". in fact, china wants to turn my country into a massive pig farm. WOW much technological advance



I'm so sorry you have to deal with radlib theorylit we*toids, comrade. Uncritical support for your crusade against them.


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america and BRICS are not the same. Washington is barbarism and will always be the bigger evil. and nothing can convince me otherwise.


>"Humanity has two choices, either national bourgeoisie blocs or barbarism" - Fredick Ankle


"muh BRICS imperialism" is literally Gobbelsian propaganda from the West, accusing others of what they themself are guilty of.
The "debt trap" is the behaviour conducted by Western neoliberal agents like the IMF, demanding endless austerity and privatization that results in economic and political capture by the Western economic interests - the big "multinational" corporations - that allow only low-productivity resource extraction and the most basic of manufacturing, suppressing further development of more value-added goods. BRICS funding allows the third world a way past this blockade, which is why the West pushes this message to try and cut off none-neoliberal alternatives.


did you know the fathers of argentine capitalism are the much hated by chauvinist retards brits? they didnt "depredate" our country, they actually developed means of production
the usa is not to blame unilaterally for our woes, the national bourgeois are fully complicit with their plans and destroying the proletariats welfare. in fact, the social democrat national bourgeois have been complicit with the chinese bourgeois interests. neither block has the southams proletariats interests in mind


Agreed. Very well said


Did you know that the US is actually the most progressive force in history?




What is your country anon?


LMAO im an ancap because i dont kiss brics ass
fuck off and die, menshevik pig


>did you know the fathers of argentine capitalism are the much hated by chauvinist retards brits? they didnt "depredate" our country, they actually developed means of production
the usa is not to blame unilaterally for our woes, the national bourgeois are fully complicit with their plans and destroying the proletariats welfare. in fact, the social democrat national bourgeois have been complicit with the chinese bourgeois interests. neither block has the southams proletariats interests in mind

Oh, you are an ancap Argentine. Got it. That explains a lot

Needed to delete my comment


I never knew "the third world" was a country. Til.


Agree, let's support the British Empire, they were progressive compared to the savages.


Its most proud achievements are creating civilization and making the American empire experience imperial overreach in the 21st century


Why does anyone support China? They don't even support the global socialist revolution, outlined by Engels.


Didn't you know, OP is from the country thirdworld™ thats where all the brown people™ come from.


Oh… lmao. Now why I know why you hate china. So whose country is more revisionist and capitalist roader, your's or China?


Both are neoliberal shitholes. Nothing against my Chinese comrades.


the british bourgeois supported the criollo bourgeois fight against spanish feudalism. i cant believe i have to point out this, capitalism is more progressive than precapitalism
one of argentinas biggest trade partner is china and weve been wallowing in misery and improductivity for decades. all thanks to the chavista myth of "america bad everything else good"
do you think the usa is omnipotent or something? china has no interest in developing this country and never had. at best it just wants a part of the profits


>create civikization
I can't read. I'm used to the antichina vietanon. So uhh Iraq? Never seen an iraqi on here before.


Down with Milei, long live the argentine people, hope they all come to Brasil.


>>1817102 (me)
Honestly if there is a real criticism of BRICS, it's that it doesn't do enough as a bloc - sure the individual countries do quite a bit, but that's as individual countries, not as the BRICS bloc. BRICS is basically just a grabbag of "the big ones who aren't Western", there is no unifying ideology there.



I should reply with a greentext muttjak whenever a we*toid opens their stupid theorylet mouth.


>anglo anti-Marxist settlers-colonialist NEETs misogynists
lol get a load of this fag


<*criticize brics and china*


The unifying idelogoy is gettin out from us dollar hegemony and sanctions regimes.


Nah, you just support the British Empire instead.


cant wait to publicly hang him and every bourgeois in plaza de mayo


>did you know the fathers of argentine capitalism are the much hated by chauvinist retards brits? they didnt "depredate" our country, they actually developed means of production
>the usa is not to blame unilaterally for our woes, the national bourgeois are fully complicit with their plans and destroying the proletariats welfare. in fact, the social democrat national bourgeois have been complicit with the chinese bourgeois interests. neither block has the southams proletariats interests in mind

You are someone who say stuff like this


I will be honest, i am tired, i will not reply anymore, Goodbye


>the british bourgeois supported the criollo bourgeois fight against spanish feudalism. i cant believe i have to point out this, capitalism is more progressive than precapitalism
Agree, colonialism good.


File: 1712624432564.jpg (96.74 KB, 552x500, 8m2ts1.jpg)

9/11 third worlders agree.


two hundred years happened since the british completed their task, dense moron
and if we are a shithole then the corrupt, greedy, depraved national bourgeois are to blame, not "le ebil empire". if anything the argentine bourgeois (succdem or liberal, doesnt matter) guarantee the profits of international capital, be it chinese, american or european
the brits never colonized argentina what are you even talking about


>the brits never colonized argentina what are you even talking about

but muh lvinas…


cant believe even the trotkyist fags jumped on the nationalist wagon. its fucking shameful. two stupid useless rocks are not worth a single drop of workingmens blood


File: 1712624663550.png (2.22 MB, 1024x1224, ClipboardImage.png)

Uhm colonialism good ashkually.


yes le evil empire. the argentinian national bourgeois serve US interests, just like every country in Lat Am


>the british never colonized argentina
>ok they did but it doesn't matter FORGET ABOUT IT
>two stupid useless rocks
it's a NATO military base in south america


File: 1712624944375.jpg (126.08 KB, 977x965, -.jpg)

I got my Kleicha in one hand, an IED in the other and I'm ready to own some radlib capitalism apologists


If you disagree with Generalplan Ost then you're a Slavic chauvinist against progressive forces (most of Germany was industrialized while the USSR was still in the progress of industrialization in the 1930s).


shut the fuck up. dont even talk about this. dont open your mouth about topics you have no idea about


File: 1712625130822.png (426.1 KB, 1000x600, R(1).png)

'Member that time England confiscated all of Venezuela's gold? I bet those Venezuelans wish they had more trustworthy countries to bank with.


Latest articles coming up from last year but it seems five years running, guaudo is no longer the legitimate president and they still didn't give it back.



Argentina was and is still under the influence of the Western finance sector. The imperialist-finance organs siphons some 2.2 trillion every year from the Third world to the pockets of the Western ultrabougie. No shit much if the third world, Argentina included, is still shitholes, under such pressures, how could they be anything else?
Chinese trade and investment is what's been keeping them afloat. Milei is an abject reminder of what full-throated America gets you.
This but unironically. The west has made the game clear quite clear: their success depends on our impoverishment. They will lie, cheat, steal, murder to defend their ill gotten gains, and if we don't follow we're the next target. It's us or them.


>I am from Brasil … "We need to sell Brasil to USA, they will do neoliberal stuff and send man to die for Israel, that is so cool!".


Can anyone find a copy of this article, Tales of Economic Warfare, for me on this for free, this law universityfaggotry is all pay walled.
<al Attar, Mohsen and Alexander Reay. 2021. Tales of Economic Warfare: The Plunder of Venezuela. Indian Journal of International Economic Law 13: 1–26.


You dont know how much retarded the right wing people are in Brazil. I tried to be polite


>you HAVE to choose between your national bourgeois or some arbitrarily defined "foreign bourgeoisie"
Very communist.



its tiring to debate someone so dense. you dont even know the material conditions of my country and still you pretend to lecture me on them. *CLASS STRUGGLE*, ever heard of it?
china DOESNT keep us afloat
the national bourgeois are an ENEMY, and they FUCK OVER US regardless of their allegiance and deals towards china or the usa
>quoting the forefathers to avoid taking an analytical, dialectical stance on current problems and current societies
hello kautsky!


>It sometimes feel like I'm the only principled leftist online
What is with fucking "DAE real socialism?!" attitude? There is no shortage of places for you to hem and haw about real socialism including right here, stop acting like a persecuted little manbaby.
>How can I feel solidarity for a group that supports the reactionary oppressive forces which are cannibalising me and my community in the name of "lesser evilism"?
Explain how Russia, China and Iran are cannibalizing your country "comrade".


I was joking. Notice the "/s"


File: 1712631701234.jpg (142.42 KB, 989x1272, 30.jpg)

>Russian and Chinese companies own the biggest share of our oil after Washington failed to fully capitalize on its shock therapy
>Iranian theocracy propping up the US-installed neoliberal regime and reactionary death squads
Two more massacres of brown leftists and multipolarity is achieved


From another third world leftist:
Você é um retardado ultraesquerdista do caralho, como jamais vai ter nenhum poder nas mãos nem ter que lidar com as condições materiais do mesmo, suas ideias nunca serão postas à crítica da realidade, então são perfeitas… e inúteis.


Saw someone make the point recently which hadn't occurred to me that many Chinese investments in the world are much easier to nationalize compared to, ah, Western financial services. I'm not sure those Chinese companies would like that very much though!!!


File: 1712632694557.png (92.31 KB, 1200x800, ClipboardImage.png)

<Milei waiting for his overthrow


la aplicacion de tus "ideas" choca y colapsa contra la realidad todo el tiempo. de hecho promueven la existencia del capitalismo y la destruccion del bienestar de la clase obrera apoyando a burgueses socialdemocratas
el proletariado de la region se esta haciendo fascista y pro-yankee por culpa de la burguesia nacional progresista pro-china, no porque los yankees son dioses omnipotentes


Good for them


>china is making countries in south america pro-US
lol wtf
se mata retardado


china no, tarado
>este tipo pro-china me caga de hambre
>entonces me banco cualquiera que se oponga a el
no es tan dificil de entender. la socialdemocracia alineada con china es lo que pavimenta el fascismo proyanqui
de todas formas china no tomo represalia alguna contra bolsonaro ni milei ni bukele ni tantisimos otros reaccionarios mas


that takes me back, these days it's all
>nuuuu don't take that belt and road deal. belt and road is a chicom conspiracy to rule the world with devlopment loans with better terms




Neither Washington or Beijing mfs when the artillery brutally dismembering them came from Salt Lake City.


>US installs puppet neoliberal regime in war
>Neolib does standard neolib opression things
>"Why would China do this??!?!1"
Lol, lmao.


Sadly people here have believe that multipolarity is socialism in of itself and not just a step from the current imperial order towards a socialist order.
Most likely it is because they intimately believe that revolution is impossible, which leads them to these positions.


You don’t get it, muh china bad


Who are you quoting?


File: 1712663985455.png (612.69 KB, 1080x733, nq06apwji4n71.png)

>kills the most americans since vietnam
>cripples american imperialism literally and figuratively
<"thank you for your service, now open your legs for more capitalist penetration (it's red this time!!111)"


>(Low Effort B8)
The idiot who put that there can easily check my IP to see that this is a real issue that concerns me.
What an absolute shithole this place is. Your idpol libtard brains can't comprehend a brown person going off script.


western, chauvinist petite-bourgeois who larp as stalin-era commissars, comrade. these mensheviks in disguise have no idea about what theyre talking about


>a bourgeois country fighting for their share of the capital cake is "upsetting le monopoly" therefore "communists" have to support them
Communist China is a qualitatively proletarian country which fights monopoly capital and capitalists in order to redistribute the value of the capitalist system to the proletariat.

Communists ABSOLUTELY MUST 💯 support Communist China. Not supporting Communist China means supporting capitalism.


File: 1712707255112.png (1.55 MB, 1920x1080, Die Hard Lukashenko.png)

>"critically support"
Do you understand what this term means? Your entire argument relies on a strawman based on people online supporting countries that are the primary opposition against globalized Western hegemony. Do you think your Iraqi communist groups would be EVER able to even EXIST if the USA didn't have Iran, Russia and China to think about? At this point you and your group are barely on their RADAR because of that, they keep tabs on you, but otherwise you're not seen as a threat. Moreover their imperialist actions done against BRICs nations further accelerates people's frustrations, which is the opportunity of communist/leftist groups to take advantage of and appeal to. The point isn't "Muh god emperors Putin and Deng are unassailable communists!" and nobody here ever claims that except in satirical jest. Nobody claims that Iran or Russia or China are perfect communist states or some shit, but what we do recognize is that idealism is not an option at the moment. In the days of the USSR, you could pick and choose who you allied with, because at the end of the day there was a genuine socialist alternative in Eurasia that was self-sufficient and could protect itself.

Your criticisms about China are also hilarious, what are they supposed to do, just plunge into a nuclear war? Attempt a conventional one and then get nuked? What is it you are suggesting people do? Join an org? Most orgs are laughable radlib nonsense. Go to those countries? Okay, how? Many people here aren't living in the global south or aren't living there right now, and to go there you need money, resources, contacts. Not to mention the sheer arrogance of someone from another country coming over to join in on a grass-roots movement. Why do you think Rojava caught increasing amounts of flak over time?

Your principled communism isn't worth squat unless those principles appeal to the greater human population. You mock with "Socialism is when good things" and completely forget that socialism is a PEOPLE'S movement. The People do not care about your stupid motherfucking principles, they never did. Do you think the Red Army was made up of people fighting for Marxist ideology? Fuck no, they were fighting for Land, Peace, Bread. They were fighting for the right to live in homes that weren't 2x2 meter barrack sections, to be able to eat bread and not worry about starving every 5 years, to be able to get medicine, for them and their children to live better and more happily. That's why the USSR was able to industrialize in 10 years instead of 100, that's why the USSR managed to continuing raising production of tanks and tractors when the Germans captured Ukraine, that's why the USSR became a super-power, because the first generations of Soviet people worked, fought, bled and died to ensure a better future, and even after the fall of the USSR, even after the 1990s and the rise of oligarchs, Russia's people today live a hell of a lot better than their ancestors a century ago. That's what the working class cares about, especially in non-Firstoid countries, and not whether Marx like this or that aspect of social development.
We live in what Stalin predicted as a time of the Blackest Reaction, the communist movement is splintered, plagued by liberalism and lacks supportive infrastructure and mass-appeal. It cannot afford to pick and choose allies at this time, there is a greater threat - Western Hegemony, and fighting it means that the enemy of your enemy is your friend. This is the same situation as when communist groups came to power a century ago, and is likely the scenario that will happen decades from now.

>Glory to Otto Von Bismarck

Except that's not what Bismarck did you historical ignoramus, nor is this at all dialectical, his actions were part of Germany's industrialization and development which according to Marx was what would lead to conditions that subsequently would lead to a Revolution. By this same metric of derogation you may as well talk shit about the French Revolution, because to your "bourg" = "baaad" even though that's not how dialectical materialism works, which you'd know if you actually read Marx as a "principled communist/leftist/etc."

>fulgencio batistas dictatorship were supported by the ussr

No they fucking didn't. I have yet to find any actual sources to this claim. It reeks of Sectarian anti-sovietism.

Lazy fucking shite so I'll give it a lazy fucking response, "something something, supporting national bourgeois in a fight against foreign bourgeois" t.somecommunistleader

But seriously has everyone forgotten how China became communist under Mao and kicked out the Japanese? They had to ally with Kai Shek in all but official terms to fight off an imperialist threat that would crush the communist movement and without such an alliance the communist movement would be stuck to the same role as other countries were Communists decided to be "principled" and were crushed by foreign imperialism who then proceeded to create puppets out of the national bourgeoisie. Do you think when Lenin fought the Russian Civil War, the Bolsheviks weren't fighting alongside the Left SR's and Menshiviks and any number of petty ethno-nationalists against the Right SRs, White Guard and foreign intervention? The fact of the matter is that under the current global circumstances, communist groups lack the strength, cohesion and structure to strike out on their own.
>Muh Kautsky lol
Kautsky is not some unassailable prophet, but his words in that text remain quite important today; there's a reason the term "History repeats itself" exists.


Where can i get a list of all the USA attempt coups, human rights violations, war crimes, etc. On the internet?

Also, i wanted to prove 3 things to a certain friend, with data and facts:
1) global inequality, the people of the world are not "lazy", i need to explain in a easy this concept
2) People in Latin America are not "lazy and dumb", and why "personal experience" is not a good source at all.
3) USA is not productive, people there don't live good lifes, almost everyone that i met in this website says living in the US is a semi-nazi hellhole, etc. I want to prove those facts.

Idk, i remember that before there was a wikipedia list showing that basically all war crimes commited in the history of humanity came from the US, i can't find it no more. F


File: 1712791831641.pdf (2.63 MB, 197x255, UhOhWhatsThis.pdf)

The attached PDF may be helpful. I haven't done a scan of it yet (it was just posted it another thread), but open it offline if you're concerned about IP trackers.
>global inequality, the people of the world are not "lazy", i need to explain in a easy this concept
I mean, seriously ask him to think about his own question, the realities of it are pretty dumb. I think he is confusing "lazy" for not wanting to contribute to meaningless capitalist slob behind a cubicle. Is he as lazy when he is doing things he is passionate about? And for things that he is not intrinsically passionate about but still does them, is every single one of those things only motivated by money? Or can there be another incentive besides financial gain, the more likely case. In addition, for facts and data part, I would look into Universal Basic Income, and the results. Kurzgezat on youtube made a video about it, might want to send him that.
>People in Latin America are not "lazy and dumb", and why "personal experience" is not a good source at all.
Quiz him on the social classes he experienced growing up, and ask him to elaborate. I have a feeling the lazy and dumb elements of society he describes might be elements of Capitalism opposed upon them from abject poverty and whatnot. Either way, the argument sounds sketch, I'd definitely need more details.
>USA is not productive, people there don't live good lifes, almost everyone that i met in this website says living in the US is a semi-nazi hellhole, etc. I want to prove those facts.
Productive in what, GDP? It has one of the largest GDP's among the nations of the world. What does he mean by "good life"? A wealthy one? Productive? I think bro's confused, and in his confusion, he's looking for answers and is attaching them to non-materialistic, emotional responses. He refuses to dig deeper and investigate the root of the problems caused by Capitalism, and for that you must be there for him. I must recommend you to the wiki, there you'll find more resources


Ok, i will think of what you wrote carefuly. In productive, i mean, not that the US worker is lazy, no, but for him, everything is about "culture". He thinks people in the US are "honest" because the govnerment is good in erradicating crime, there is "no corruption", people are much more "free" from "govnerment intervention to innovate", etc. He has gone to the USA several times in bussiness trips, and always talks how much stuff he can buy because they live so much better and are so much better then anyone else. Also he talks how in the US there is no homeless people, since if "you are homeless in the US the police will put you in jail and you will die from cold in there."
I mean, my point is that, in question of manufacturing industrial products, the US is much more of a importer then a exporter. All about the trade deficit. They can only afford cheap prices of goods because of world inequality and exploration of the global south. It has nothing to do with some "USA economic miracle" or something. I find it funny how delusional he is in thinking the USA economy has never been better.


>USA attempt coups, human rights violations, war crimes, etc.
I would recommend the works of William Blum, he specialized in all this. Take a look at this from his website as well:


I will read those later, thanks!


Don't have a full list but here's some stuff, also check the >>>/edu/ Debunk thread, there's a list I posted there about anti-communist myths

Here's some pdfs not already posted


Also I suggest reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman, also quite important and see the CIA thread for more.

Addendum - the Jakarta Method



>Do you understand what this term means?
Shill for capitalism while being a self-righteous faggot about it too?


Good suggestions, thanks everyone


Under socialism how do we deal with a majority of jobs that aren't made for profits like caretakers, nurses or cashiers and still keeping wages of everyone high? I genuinely have no idea how that would work.


What do you mean? All economic production would be divided among the workers, not only those directly involved in production.


File: 1712845565689.png (150.98 KB, 537x585, both sides.png)

>Screech about muh stupid state capitalist leftypol
<Be explained in detail why they're an idealist and an idiot and what is the reality of the socialist movement in the global sphere.
>Reply with a bad faither strawman reply to a single rhetorical question out of the entire reply
Pathetic, so much for being a Principled Communist.


Being a principled communist is shilling for capitalists, islamists, and nationalists because you don't think working class revolution will ultimately happen?

Sounds like MLoids are opportunists with a purely aesthetic ideology tbh, more and more every day


File: 1712864738914.png (266.89 KB, 932x471, point and laugh.png)

>If you're not being a retarded ideologue and understand geopolitics and their impact on real-politik decisions of communist movements then you're "unprincipled"
Damn, guess you better toss out your computer and start attacking all the proletarians for not being class conscious because you said so, anything less would be 'unprincipled'! See I can create strawmen too, only I'm doing so to mock you, not argue in bad faith.
>Muh ML!
Go back fashoid.


See the USSR's method


Is it necessary, to rename Maoism-Third-Worldism into Maoism-Global-Southism?



What's your plan to deal with the immediate brain drain that happens after the revolution? not every doctor, engineer or technician is gonna be on board with your project.

Although one could argue this is not a problem anymore since a lot more people today pursue higher education than in say 1917.




I'm looking for an ancient 4chan screencap (like 10 years old), where some anon does a "today I will remind them" with an overview of how stormfront astroturfed on 4chan. I've been digging through my folders but I can't find it.


You should be more worried about the ones who remain harboring reactionary tendencies than those who leave. For them maybe a cultural revolution style movement is necessary. Even with an exodus of professional classes, developed countries would still have more left than say Russia or China.


Arguing with my friend about censorship in the Soviet Union. What was that one author that basicallg outright said the white army should have won, aggressively criticized the government, and was in fact praised by Stalin and honored with some sort of award? Someone posted about him.


Amadeo Bordiga


What do marxists think of the Meidner (is that how you spell it) Plan in Sweden


File: 1713461497939.png (1 MB, 1010x1604, sholokhov.png)

That anon would be me, I'm surprised someone remembered. As for the author, it's actually 2 authors. Bulgakov and Sholohov, the latter is more notable in terms of reward, but Stalin publically defended Bulgakov and enjoyed his works according to memoirs or his sons.


Can a economy keep on "growing" forever, be it in a capitalist or socialist/communist economy? What conditions are necessary for a stable growth of value, real value, not speculation, to keep on expanding for an unlimited amount of time?


Economic growth is limited by material resources and labour capabilities. The Earth is not an infinite resources, which is why re-using and recycling materials is something to be done on an industrial level and objects should be long-lasting so as to not waste the materials they are made of.
>What conditions are necessary for a stable growth of value, real value
Depends on what is in question, the real value of a car, or a building, or a person etc. is all different and some things have limited value, while other things, such as many people have theoretically infinite value if cultivated. I think Cockshott discusses this in one of his books, but I'm a bit too lazy RN to look up which one.


>Economic growth is limited by material resources and labour capabilities. The Earth is not an infinite resources

Is there ways to artificially increase those?


Matter cannot be destroyed or created by any scientific means we know of at the moment. Theoretically one can convert energy into material mass (a la Star Trek replicators) but it's pure speculation at this point.


In the question of material resource extraction, comes to mind the exploration of the natural resources of other planets.
Talking about labor capabilities, artificially creating human life and "Transhumanism" is one option.

Since we are not even CLOSE to getting those in the near future, i believe we should expect a colapse of the consumer based economy of neoliberalism and all the consequences of post ecology colapse to come in the near future with full force.


Also, i am sure that there is much more to GDP growth then the production of industrial goods, which require as you said lots of resources and personnel.


File: 1713487591214.png (177.73 KB, 413x569, IMG_5801.png)

Basically, what's the praxis of Maoist Third Worldists?
They frequently claim to be the true revolutionaries, but in my experience they mostly come off as self-loathing westerners with a near noble savage view of people living outside Europe and the Anglosphere, who consistently tell socialists in the Imperial core for either give up and do nothing, give random third world guerrillas like $20 a month, or commit random terrorist attacks in our own country

And I always encounter these people either online and therefore doing nothing, or maybe LARPing on a campus and therefore doing nothing

It all comes off as the most radical of bohemian do nothing lifestylism and endless whining and navel gazing


>what's the praxis of Maoist Third Worldists?
Arguing online.


Waste everyone's time defending some bourgeois country on the opposite side of the planet just because it has a lower GDP than the "first world" and/or the population isn't white.


>Pretending to ask a question but really just going to have a little bitching session about 'Maoist Third Worldists'
This is what /siberia/ should be for tbh.


>who consistently tell socialists in the Imperial core for either give up and do nothing

Whenever those "socialists" do something, they are:
1)"elected" in capitalist democracy, wich makes them become reformists that doesn't do anything regardless to creating the DotP
2) Bookclubs
3) Nostalgia centers
4) Syndicates and trade unions that achieve the same goals as any other syndicate or trade union.
5) Illegal organizations that try to do something but get caught by FBI and CIA infiltrated glowies.

Whenever those "socialist" movements are mentioned in Leftypol, they are discarded as simply reformists/social-democrat instead of actually doing Marxist Leninist thought. So is not the "Maoist third worldists" that hold those views. Is just that there is no worker movement in the imperial core.


Also, we can have the debate again that not a single time a communist revolution was successful in the "imperial core". I would love this was not the case, but it did not happen a single time.
Maybe the most close to a successful revolution in a ""industrial"" country was the Cuba revolution, as i saw some people arguing for that, but even then, i don't think small Latin American country comes to mind when talking about "Imperial core"


>4) Syndicates and trade unions that achieve the same goals as any other syndicate or trade union.
One of these is not like the others.


>there is no worker movement in the imperial core
As long as the proletarian exists there will be a proletarian movement, retard.


The only DotP in history was the USSR. A bunch of other revolutions around the same time happened but never got very far. Mao's wasn't a marxist revolution and neither was Cuba.


What i wanted to write was:
>4) Socialist/communist syndicates and trade unions that achieve the same goals as any other syndicate or trade union, but with more red colors. They could have any ideology, this union would achieve basically the same goals as any other.

>As long as the proletarian exists there will be a proletarian movement, retard.

"There will be", doesn't mean that it exists right here right now in the imperial core or has the organization/power to change anything. There is no such thing as a revolutionary Marxist-Leninist workers movement in the US, France, Germany, UK, etc, that is close to get into power any time soon. This should be obvious, and it pains to me to repeat this again and again.


>The Russian Empire wasn't part of the imperial core.


No G7 country is remotely close to the conditions of Russia in 1917.


>Mao's wasn't a marxist revolution and neither was Cuba


>There is no such thing as a revolutionary Marxist-Leninist workers movement
That's because MLs aren't revolutionary.

Castro didn't "become" a marxist until much later so that means Cuba's program never was. Moreover Mao and his bunch were not Marxists at all. As Trotsky's wife put it well: the Maoist regime was as remote from communism as Franco's Spain.


>As Trotsky's wife put it well […]
No I think Ramón Mercader put it best: ⛏️


I'm already aware you morons only know "theory" from memes.


Mao Zedong was a bourgeois nationalist who was more interested in "the fatherland" than the proletariat. The current state of China and maoists should be of no surprise then.


>Basically, what's the praxis of Maoist Third Worldists?
>And I always encounter these people either online and therefore doing nothing, or maybe LARPing on a campus and therefore doing nothing
>It all comes off as the most radical of bohemian do nothing lifestylism and endless whining and navel gazing

Thank you OP for clarifying that " Maoist Third Worldists" are hypocrites, LARPers, "do nothing lazy bohemian lifestyle whiners".
A very well founded case based on real theory and practice, totally not a personal sectarian grudge. You are the "real one" doing "something".


Very original


OP isn't wrong, but this extends to most 'marxists' both irl and online.


and doing the tired old "real marxism has never been tried" shit every day is original?
i'm not going to take a post claiming mao wasn't a marxist seriously, you should just be mocked for it


The way you perceive those groups depends heavily on your own personal experience, and a argument born from it will not be as solid as it could be.


Well at least that's a sincerely held belief and not a lame quip about how your dear leader was so insecure he needed to murder everyone who had different ideas to him


>communism hasn't been achieved so let's call anything communism, fuck analysis
You're an utter joke.

Love Mao all you want (he was perhaps the greatest liberal democrat of the 20th century after all) but don't pretend he overthrew capitalism. 😂


The average leftoid group can only waste proletarians' time discussing incessant pointless trifles, handing them cretinous newspapers or pamphlets from a like-minded sect of dunces while they're at it, too. Maybe become part of the bourgeois electoralist machine too by trying to accrue votes.

Organizing with the proletariat to unify their separate struggles never once crosses their minds.


Ok and what would you do differently? And why are you not already doing it?


<Organizing with the proletariat to unify their separate struggles never once crosses their minds.
Reading is hard!


That's just a vague mission statement, not an actual plan


Do communist work within proletarian organizations and strikes that aims to unify scattered worker initiatives in a centralized, coordinated manner. If this is vague to you then you're more retarded than I thought.


File: 1713493820987.png (245.92 KB, 1136x386, something.png)

>Muh Maoists
>Muh MLs
>Muh Trotskyism
>Muh Marxists

This thread stinks from sectarism. But i don't mind it, i prefer this thread existing anyway, even though:

f) are low effort sectarian bait rather than good faith discussion
 e.g. “Tankie/Anarkiddie hate thread” or “Why does this theorist suck so much?”

At least is something.


Watch mods delete the thread even though the replies at least have some substance.


I would be pretty sad if that was the case


Well why don't you go and do that then instead of bitching about everyone else?


A socialist revolution does not talk about interclassist blocs of 'joint dictatorship'. Mao himself denied that the CPC wanted a DotP at first for China.
Mao never had a coherent single definition of socialism. It's not as if definitions change after decades, either. The definition of socialism is the same as it was in 1848 when the Manifesto was published.
You braindead morons don't even know about the figures you dickride incessantly.


Has any Marxist theorist addressed how most right wingers are clearly biologically defective? I don't think any education or change in material conditions can rewire their brain. I know due to history of eugenics this question is uncomfortable, but one cannot ignore how utterly deranged the average anti-communist is.


did Lenin really liked Trotsky more than Stalin?
cause it makes no sense, like, Trot has just too many dissonances with his vision


File: 1713587278997.png (488.02 KB, 778x477, ClipboardImage.png)

liberalism is only leftist going by the wack-Overton Window of the USA

No. For those who will inevitably cite “Lenin’s Testament”
Lenin’s Testament is a questionable piece of work written at a time when Lenin was no longer in a fit state of mind and when it was becoming obvious that a successor for Lenin was going to be needed. Trotsky at that time showed his true colors and struck out as the opposition, going against Lenin’s ideas, but instead of fighting with Lenin who was all but dead, he instead focused on twisting Lenin’s words for his own purposes against his opponents, and using the authority of Lenin’s words to try and discredit them.

Lenin’s testament shows that Lenin did not KNOW that Stalin would be his successor but that it was likely regardless of his flaws. In fact the falling out with Stalin right before Lenin's death was because Stalin had given Lenin's wife a rebuke while discussing communist policy and she complained to Lenin about it who obviously took offense on her behalf.



thank you! that was really helpful


Is there any critique of utilitarianism from a socialist perspective? I vaguely remember reading something about it on this website


So what's up with this Simon Sebag Montefiore guy? Wrote "The Court of the Red Tsar", spread the "Stalin had a child bride" thing, is beloved by all of liberal society, what's going on with him?
Does he just make shit up? What's the dirt on him?


bro had his name in the Epstein flight logs, you do the math


File: 1713677435973.png (896.56 KB, 803x788, jeremy.PNG)

He's a hack. An unscholarly hack who writes pop history books for rich people. Should never be treated as a serious historian.
I tried his Stalin bio when I was researching the Beria case. He doesn't source most of the things he says about Beria, and when he does he relies on anecdotal evidence and dubious accusations. And even the few times he mentions "archival documents" he doesn't source said documents. He simply says "Oh but there are archives that prove this and that" You CAN'T fucking say the evidence proves x thing and not cite said evidence. You cease to be a historian when you do shit like this. And of course to top it off, the man accusing others of mass rape was friends with Jeffrey Epstein.


bro accused stalin of being a pedo while literally being on the epstein flight logs lol, if anything bringing this up is a good thing and helps discredit boof ass anti communist hysterics


File: 1713680164919.jpeg (102.15 KB, 750x609, Montefiore Epstein.jpeg)

The fact that he's on Epstein's List should say enough. He's a fucking anti-communist and his sources are trash.


One gorillion years ago Jeremy Bentham came up with a thought experiment: Suppose we want to make people happy. There are many factors to consider: The intensity of how good or bad it is, whether it happens sooner or later, how long its duration is, how likely it is that it happens blahblah. Almost all these numbers are wild guesses. Marx made a few short dismissive comments about Bentham's "calculus".

Since then Marxists "know" it is right and proper to be dismissive of utilitarianism without either reading Bentham or any of the more recent things. Also, some SanFran dorks are into utilitarianism ("efficient altruism") including some recently arrested finance innovator. Guilt by vibes. It's trendy among the online left to call utilitarianism a pro-capitalist ideology (or "neoliberal ideology" if you want to say the same thing but are too much of a coward).

But it is easy to argue for an almost total leveling of income and wealth with utilitarian arguments.


>But it is easy to argue for an almost total leveling of income and wealth with utilitarian arguments.
That isn't the lofty mission and goal of Communism.


>But it is easy to argue for an almost total leveling of income and wealth with utilitarian arguments.
Which is simply impossible under a capitalism system.


Was a goal of many communists pre-Marx and still is.
That was the point of the statement.


the fact that something can be used to assemble an argument for communism does not, in itself, mean it's not worthy of ridicule or not primarily found in service of capitalism. (one can argue for communism based on the acts of the Biblical Jesus, but that doesn't redeem the church…)

then i am not a communist!


What is the raison d'etre of the stock market beyond actual capital investments these days? Are futures just a way for the bourgeoise to gamble so that the enormous amounts of dollars printed have somewhere to escape?


What question are you asking? The raison detre is to make money.


Clearly not, since futures have an expected profit of 0%. In fact, the profit is effectively negative because of the opportunity cost of not investing that money into actual capital which would produce a positive profit albeit meagre.


File: 1713762822824.png (643.54 KB, 899x592, amazon.png)

To me, governments are just corporations that get to make their own laws and money.

Corporations are just governments that are primarily focused on employment and profit making.

Government and corporations are both just abstract subclasses of organization. Organizations can take an infinite number of forms and yet in practice, as a species, we stick to a few stereotypical template types. Why is this?


if you serve bourgeois society you are held to no standard of evidence. If you are a socialist you are expected to be an expert in every single field simultaneously.



>Love Mao all you want (he was perhaps the greatest liberal democrat of the 20th century after all) but don't pretend he overthrew capitalism
Apparently attempting to dissolute your own ML State for a classless, moneyless society directly controlled by the proletariet masses is now considered neoliberal capitalist egalitarianism because of thirdworldism


File: 1713768589370.png (89.81 KB, 470x268, ClipboardImage.png)

>governments are just corporations that get to make their own laws and money.
Not quite lol


Ignoring the philosophical drivel at the end, indeed, the state is itself the largest capitalist that enforces and reproduces bourgeois social relations, and each bourgeois state is in competition with other bourgeois states just like bourgeois firms.


Is it unhinged to argue that some people are genetically reactionary?


Yes. I mean in theory politics is partly based on genetics but if you start skull measuring you're just gonna look psychotic


lmfao absolutely


im not a fascist because of my class position i actually have the reactionary gene


>in theory politics is partly based on genetics
uygha wdymmmm


I strongly suspect that the bourgeoise are to a large extent selected by genetic traits for anti social behaviour, and as such they should be understood as a parasitic sub-species of human.
Does it not bother you how class consciousness seems to rub off some people like water off a leaf? I am struggling to come up with alternative explanations for why some people are so pathologically resistant to Marxist thinking.


>they should be understood as a parasitic sub-species of human
love moralist whining in my 'marxist' analysis


When Stalin said "the blackest reaction", what does "black" mean here? I've heard this quote a million times, but never thought to question what black meant. I guess I just interpreted as "deep"
or entrenched but maybe it means something else?


Are you not english first language? "Black" or "dark" has been a way of saying "bad", "scary", etc for a long time. For all i know that was just artistic license from whoever translated the quote, though I wouldnt be surprised if thats a common feature in many languages


I wish socialism worked better than capitalism since my values and principles align almost one to one with socialists, but seeing what happened in practice across the world, it is kind of hard to support it. Even Salvador Allende, the democratically elected leader, had skeletons in his closet. In practice, I guess I have to support social democracy since it's the closest system to socialism without being socialism, and has a functioning base on which it can be focused on providing and leveling everything even for everyone with high equality and high quality of life. If communism worked better than capitalism, then I would 100% support it, but seeing the mixed results just deters me.


File: 1714075565568.png (383.42 KB, 825x729, ClipboardImage.png)

This is what youtube proposes to me after listening to this based song:

"Stalin" - Swedish Communist Song

How do we fight against the algorithm? Maybe mostly not for us but for others.


Same, i keep watching communist music but my only recomendations are fascist larping music


>>1835661 (me)
In youtube


recommendations are also based on the views of people in and around your geographic location


Makes sense, i should use a VPN to avoid those problems in the future.


Where the hell would you set it to?
Even invidious instances are mostly techlord clickbait sponsored shit


He meant that it would be enforced by the Sudanese.
Parasite is an ecological niche, where is the moralizing?



yt recs are unhinged even on a freshly installed windows computer under a new ip. i just completely ignore them and hid the column with an adblocker


What material conditions lead to the AH empire exploding into a billion different nations? In the case of Czechia the different level of industry makes sense, but what about the other ones?


They took the "yougoslavia 1000 states" focus tree path. It happened because no player wanted austria hungary, so dividing them into small groups would make it easier to conquer/exploit them and their mineral resources.

Also, ww1, the result was the complete destruction of austria hungary in small states in accordance with the treaty:
https://www.theworldwar.org/learn/peace/treaties-signed#:~:text=The Treaty of Saint-Germain,well as part of Poland.
Having concluded terms of peace with Germany, the Allies turned their attention to the remaining former Central Powers. The Treaty of Saint-Germain, signed on September 10, 1919, formally dissolved the Austro-Hungarian Empire and forced the new Republic of Austria to accept the independence of over 60 percent of its former territory. This territory included the new nations of Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, as well as part of Poland.

Bulgaria signed the Treaty of Neuilly a couple of months later, losing territory to the new Yugoslavia and all access to the Aegean Sea. Hungary, now an independent state following its separation from Austria less than a month before the Armistice, lost two-thirds of its former territory and 58 percent of its population in the Treaty of Trianon, signed on June 4, 1920.


Thoughts on Charles Péguy?


Is materialist religion possible?


My faith in socialism has been completely, shot, destroyed, kaput. I thought it wouldn't happen again, but my worldview has been completely dismantled and changed. Now the only reason to go to this website is because it disagrees with me slightly less than /pol/ and there's no liberal version of 4chan.


People who see the image as egotistical and "braindead" have never been around American midwest working class factory workers. I'm not saying 90%, but the majority of them really do lack critical thought, in my experience. It does make sense when you consider their developmental environment was nothing but cable television, mainstream internet, and American public education. I really struggle to believe they can be rehabilitated.


erm tengo pregunta
Does timekeeping under a socialist system make sense? Obviously better measures of productivity exist, like measuring in bushels for harvesting or number of colors painted for fine artists. Wait, is it *liberal* to track productivity? I am going to kill myself.
Think of jobs that have a time component though, for example a daycare where an adult always needs to be present. Is self-reported time tracking enough? Anyway, looking for shit that talks about productivity tracking in socialist economies. Please help me, it will prevent my suicide.


>no response to my question
I hate leftists


There is no one "socialist system". Socialism is an engineering project so to speak. If you've ever seen any engineering project, you'll see that they're vastly different even when they're following highly thought out and precise engineering techniques and principles.


I always use channel blocker on everything that is mildly liberal


>My faith in socialism has been completely, shot, destroyed, kaput. I thought it wouldn't happen again, but my worldview has been completely dismantled and changed. Now the only reason to go to this website is because it disagrees with me slightly less than /pol/ and there's no liberal version of 4chan.
new copypasta dropped
>Does timekeeping under a socialist system make sense?
yes. r we talkin bout le communist utopia or socialism? either way prob bob. its a real useful tool for meetin up w/ friends or schedulin events. its true its was born outta the need to schedule trade or what not in ancihent eghypt, bu i figure we can keep the cool stuff from the days, like the wheel for example, or fire.
>Wait, is it *liberal* to track productivity?
>I am going to kill myself.
>Think of jobs that have a time component though, for example a daycare where an adult always needs to be present. Is self-reported time tracking enough?
no, i've worked a number of odd jobs across my life, from daycare to beach lifeguard, and the last thing u wanna do on these jobs is keep track of time urself. i'd try to look at my watch as little as possible, it helps time fly. my point is we cant rly on humans for shit like this, especialyl when we can use technology that'll be far less wrong then humans, such as le watch.
>Anyway, looking for shit that talks about productivity tracking in socialist economies. Please help me, it will prevent my suicide.
good luck ill do google an b bck
u mad lil bro



actually it is even stupider of a statement since you are invoking appeals to authority around empirical science when even those fields of science have strict definitions and criteria for determining what something is and specific principles and techniques for building their designs. like you wouldn't say there is many different ways to apply the laws of physics or something


What the actual fuck are you even talking about?
Engineering projects aren't just made by applying "the laws of physics", you silly rabbit.

To construct a bridge, for example, you need to:
- abide by the law, which requires an understanding of the law
- survey the area
- do design and civil engineering plans
- do a cost analysis and get financing
- hire construction workers
- coordinate workers, ensure quality is maintained, safety standards etc
- coordinate acquiring supplies etc and payments
Not only that, engineering projects must constantly reckon with the conditions that are handed down to the people doing the project. A project planned for Some City, Japan, can't simply be copy pasted for Another City, Germany.

In this way, socialism is like an engineering project because it requires reckoning with what one has to work with, and building socialism with that, rather than simply imposing some system.

This is just scratching the surface. Please re-think your post in the light of me saying "engineering projects", and not "doing theoretical physics exercises in class".


was strasser just a racist social democrat?



Not even that racist compared to Hitler or worse


Talking of which who here knows about the Herero and Nama genocides of 1904 to 1908?

80% and 50% of the population respectively.


what is and is not socialist is not open to interpretation, it is beholden to universal standards and necessities. also there is no such thing as unique regional differences in the construction of socialism, that's just laundering in revisionism

that being said, sure perhaps I am > posting and making too many assumptions about what you are saying that were not actually present in your reply so I apologize for that


Judaism seems to claim some form of divine Israelite ownership over the promised 'Land of Israel', a region approximately where Palestine is.
Explain how Judaism does not imply a form of Zionism. Can unconditional anti-Zionism and Judaism be reconciled without just ignoring obvious critical statements in their religious texts?


>there is no such thing as unique regional differences in the construction of socialism
what an absolutely fucking retarded thing to say, downright drooling moron tier


Good state in the US to move to with lax gun laws? Why do liberals have to be so cucked, I just want to live in a big progressive city with my arsenal of assault rifles.


>what is and is not socialist is not open to interpretation, it is beholden to universal standards and necessities
>also there is no such thing as unique regional differences in the construction of socialism
Thank you for your reply. I find these two claims two be outrageous. Particularly the second one is not only shocking, but it also makes me doubt you're serious.


What is the root cause that drives the transition from one mode of production to a more advanced one?


material condition : technological and/or social innovation, historic circumstance
see how the world works by cockshott to get a good overview


material condition : technological and/or social innovation, historic circumstance
see how the world works by cockshott to get a good overview


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File: 1715107285190-1.jpg (117.54 KB, 1024x841, original.jpg)

I'm sure we've all heard about Michelle Obama being a man

But what about Macrons wife?

Why do the right do Transvestigations?

What's more…is there anything to these allegations seeing as Obama admitted to homosexual fantasies and Candace Owens staked her career on Macrons wife being transgender?


Please dont spam these sexual idpol threads or at least keep it in /siberia/.


>is there anything to these allegations
no you fucking idiot lol


File: 1715113186354.png (269.87 KB, 640x640, ClipboardImage.png)

Rightoids are retarded so they have to blame everything on minorities
>Is there anything to these allegations
C'mon man lol



Who was Mikhail Kalinin


Is Zionism a form of white supremacism? And if not, is it really any functionally different?


File: 1715133365271-1.pdf (490.87 KB, 164x255, Israel and Zionism.pdf)

It's just a form of racism and colonial project. I compare it to Nazism.


An Old Bolshevik revolutionary and government officer, officially the USSR's head of state, but more of a symbolic thing. Also known for being mistaken for Trotsky.


>Is Zionism a form of white supremacism?
It's based on supremacy, but it isn't white supremacy.
>is it functionally different
It's also more specific than supremacy. It's about establishing a 'Jewish homeland' in the Land of Israel. It's obviously functionally different and situationally different, but there are clear similarities and similar behaviors.


That the advanced one is more capable, and able to generally out-compete the prior mode of production.


It's an ethno state that supposes that jewish people are superior to another race of people and therefore has the right to material goods that already belong to someone. It's not white supremacy but has the same logic behind it. Gaza is probably the largest concentration camp in the world right now so it has a lot in common with Nazi ideology.


Who have the biggest dick between Brigitte and Michelle?


>is there anything to these allegations
>There are no photos of your mom pregnant
>Therefore, your mom is a man
See the flaw here?


Why is this thread still here?


File: 1715224924394.png (244.05 KB, 3261x864, ClipboardImage.png)

That guy Wolf from FT, replies to my emails. This is the second time. I wonder if he has an intern doing it or noone actually talks to him so he gets pleased trying to ridicule me.

He is really anxious for years now. Anxious about the economy, populism, democracy, Trump, China, Putin…You name it. Long gone are the times that capitalists felt safe.

Also posting this here since it is the landfill.


btw, I did know until now, but apparently his mother is Jewish and lost like 30 family members in the holocaust so I sense my shitmail hit him close.


because it's useful for decluttering the board


idk what the others are talking about, Israel is literally doing forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jews. It's not just Jewish Supremacy or whatever. Race is part of it.


Yes it is, Palestinians are closer to the original Jews who had tanned skin like the rest of the Middle East. Therefore all European diasporic 'Jews' should be considered more white than Jewish.


File: 1715260151936.png (62.05 KB, 2202x100, ClipboardImage.png)

Lately I see a lot of retards or shills saying that billionaires are communists and thats why everything goes to shit. How do I respond to something so idiotic?


This is silly.
Whilst they are very close it is still imprecise to call it White supremacy exactly.
Not everything has to be about or downstream from you, Americans.


Is America a legitimate state or are we just left over invaders from an Empire that we've now replaced?


America should balkanize


>Is America a legitimate state
dpndz wht u mean by this. ig in its origin of the term, nationalism and stateism is largely tied to an ethnic group and a squat of land they declare their own. this idea's even older than Bismarck and ww1 an shit- Nations like "England" ([Anglo]land), "Scotland" (scots), "Ireland", "Desutschland", etc. by these definitions, fuck nah is it a state.
>or are we just left over invaders from an Empire that we've now replaced?
even this i hve questions about. u may think that America is simply a land of the English since the thirteen colonies and allat, bu buerland got members from all sorts of ex-Empires livin in its borders- from the French in Lousiana, Spanish in da Southwest, Chinese an shit in California, blacks forcibly brought ova here from slave-tradin African empires, etc.


with a snarky greentext
>Communism is when thing I don't like


Does anyone have the book that describes Kruschev meeting Hoxha in Albania and discussing gun control?


>Sergei Witte

According to a book I am reading, the prize, Sergei Witte helped Russian empire achieve tremendous industrialization in the late 1890s to early 1900s. But leftypol told me that only after the revolution there was actually industrialization.

Who is in the wrong here?


The early industrial development of tsarist Russia is something the soviets openly accepted and talked about in their history books. Saying Tsarist Russia was industrializing is not wrong, it just doesn't show the whole picture:
1. The cost of this development was paid for with the semi-colonial status of Russia. Up until the revolution, Western shareholders owned huge chunks of the Russian economy.
2. Tsarist industrial development was almost completely destroyed by World War I and the civil war that followed. The devastation of the wars brought it back to a level comparable to the 19th century. Agriculture was also in ruins. The Soviets had to rebuild the economy before they could even discuss industrialization, it was one of the reasons for the NEP.



alright, thanks!


>a legitimate state
Who decides what is legitimate?

This is a vital question in general. Who decides what legitimate and why should one care.
As for 'state', it's not a word with a single definition, but a common one is whoever has the monopoly on legitimized violence (e.g. police have authority to wrestle you to the ground if the state says they are justified, you can't do the same) and by most definitions, the US is a state.


Who watches the watchers and other questions the mental infirm ask themselves


Not really.


I thought everyone did.


I was under the impression that ultra-orthodox Jews don't nominally get along with Zionists because they're supposed to return to Palestine after the moschiach.


Didn't the Nazis end up picking a lot of views from the Zionists? E.g. degenerate art. Nazism then is really just German Zionism.


Is the other way around. Modern Zionism was influenced by German nationalist Blut und Boden shit and the Zionists collaborated with the Nazis in the lead up to the war.


File: 1716041176843.png (246.91 KB, 736x707, 1716038414918453.png)

Is this true?




File: 1716046129204.png (22.26 KB, 1800x1341, socialism diagram.png)

here's some OC that I just made that should hopefully clear things up


>ussr was not socialism
yes nothing is ever socialism, socialism can not exist in reality ! now back to work prole !


this capitalist country is socialism actually, stop asking for more prole
am i funny yet XD


File: 1716163113212.jpg (87.63 KB, 720x624, 4ca.jpg)

What socialist model improved the material living standards of workers the most when you exclude Chinese and Soviet. Is it Hungarian or Yugoslavian?



did kurt cobain kill himself ?


What do the right wing thinks of the spanish civil war


>What do the right wing thinks of the spanish civil war
The church did nothing wrong.
10000000 dead nuns! :'(


Also, does Libya Gaddafi counts ?



That is private property so no.
Worker coops are not socialism because they're still driven by profit. Nationalization is more "socialist" than that because that takes profits away from the owners and moves it to the public. This is why Marx was against coops. This is libarchist bullshit.


>neoliberalism actually doesnt exist
Fellas is this true?
What the fuck even is neoliberalism?


>>1841618 The majority of more traditional sects of judaism tend to subscribe to the idea that returning to canaan is forbidden so long as the messiah hasn't come

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