No.1758372
How do the revolutionary socialist ideologists here deal with the constant gaslighting from democrats
No.1759954
Is there any Marxist analysis of the Pareto distribution?
No.1761476
Hey, the holodomor is coming up again. I remember on this board someone put up some solid-seeming evidence that "Holodomor" was deliberately chosen by a very shady "historical review" holocaust denial organization to sound similar to "Holocaust" does anybody have it?
No.1762390
>>1762249I don't think there's a name for it because I don't think it's ever happened (for more than a few years anyway). The idea that Ancient Egyptians were dogged slaves building pyramids is a lie. They were wage-laborers, but I can't remember where I learned that.
No.1762393
>>1761476I don't have exactly what you're talking about, but here's a great article by J. Arch Getty about why the "terror famine" myth is bullshit.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v09/n02/j.-arch-getty/starving-the-ukraine No.1762395
>>1762249Slavery is very hard to do without some form of class system in place between bourgeoisie/patrician and the minor property owners. You need an existence of multiple classes to keep one another in check.
No.1762404
>>1762398BTW, the zionist freaks say it was slaves and thry where Jewish …in 2500BC lmao.. absolutely deranged levels of persecution complex.
>Amihai Mazar, professor at the Institute of Archaeology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, says that myth stemmed from an erroneous claim by the former Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin, on a visit to Egypt in 1977, that Jews built the pyramids. No.1763016
Where can I find good info about the Ministry of State Security? It occured to me that while everyone is always talking about the CIA,MI6 and FSB that the MSS is an intelligence agency that actually keeps a low profile which piqued my interest. ofc since its part of the PRC's government I imagine much of the existing coverage of it is just hysterical propaganda but I still want to learn about there known activities too compare to similar security agencies
No.1763020
>>1719789jesus christ, lenin hat
No.1763028
>>1719789I just randomly got recommended this video and it sounds EXACTLY like leninhat
So is leninhat OC AI voice generated or is leninhat a secret catholic?
No.1763071
https://openai.com/soraHow can communism compete with this?
No.1763073
>>1763028Yes it's an AI voice
Also what a profoundly lame video lol
No.1763153
>>1763016 WHY ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO THE MINISTRY OF STATE SECURITY?
WHAT IS YOUR MISSION?
Just kidding, this is a meme circulating among Chinese gamers about Battlefield 4. The unclear pronunciation of Chinese in Battlefield 4 and its plot related to China are often playfully joked about by Chinese players.
Our university here requires every student to follow the WeChat public account of the Ministry of State Security.
Uh, there's some stuff about… well, it's probably better not to post it on the public internet…
I shouldn't be tracked when I post these things, right? The Ministry of State Security wouldn't track a student on vacation at home, would they?
It should be fine, right?
你为什么要关注国安部？
你的任务是什么？
开个玩笑，这是一个流传于战地4的模因，因为战地四的发音不清的中文和它有关中国的剧情而在中国玩家中被恶搞
No.1763157
>>1763153God the BF4 campaign was awful, such incoherent buggy shit.
No.1765043
>>1763153lmao im glad the chinese have a sense of humor abt the constant china hysterics in the US. I find it funny that most of the recent anti-US propaganda I see come out of china depicts the US like some sleazy car salesman or snake oil salesman and anti-China propaganda in the US depicts them as some hyperadvanced empire of bugmen that wants to take over the universe. Makes you really wonder whose the most threatened lol.
No.1765246
What is the Anarchist relation to the word "Republic"?
Proudhon, literally the original Anarchist, was dismissively accepting of the term "Republican" answering in 'What is Property?' “A republican! Yes; but that word specifies nothing. Res publica; that is, the public thing. Now, whoever is interested in public affairs — no matter under what form of government — may call himself a republican. Even kings are republicans.”
The Makhnovists supposedly, in negotiations with the Bolsheviks, insisted on terms allowing for the establishment of an "Autonomous Republic of Free Soviets"
Did Anarchists during the Spanish Civil War refer to themselves as "Republicans", as was the colloquial name of their faction?
Modern Anarchists are (in my experience) strictly hostile toward the use of the term, can (or even should) the term be salvaged from its statist usage?
No.1765354
>>1763016Because they don't do a lot of wetworks, or at least stuff that's publicly known. They're a KGB/FSB-like organization that both conducts espionage against foreign targets, as well as domestic counter-intelligence.
They also do this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/26/china-sends-dissidents-on-paid-holidays No.1765412
>>1765354I think I might become an outspoken maoist ultra if I lived in china and knew about this. Just get a free trip to Hainan for talking shit
No.1765496
How do you explain neocolonialism without sounding like a conspiracy theorist?
No.1765537
>>1765511Turns out if you tell people to read How Europe Underdeveloped Africa they will just not do that.
Can I get a real answer? Why did you even reply you troll
No.1765581
>>1765537>they will just not do that.Well that's their problem, noy yours.
No.1765729
Is it possible for a white American or Israeli to be proletariat, or is the only morally correct action they can take suicide?
No.1765802
>>1765729Everycountry has proletarians, some are just alienated enough thinking they are good but they arent and are on imminent danger of crisis.
No.1765815
>>1754015I think this goes in the same bin as a peaceful transition to communism being possible in the U.S. The country and capitalism as a whole became even more reactionary and forceful. Even back in the 1950s Stalin and other theorists were saying this.
No.1766146
Sometimes I just have mental breaks where I write shit like the text below:
<The Jew's attempts to keep the genetic lessers in control with defeatist media and culture war distractions is a good thing—liberalism without those things sells the lie that the lower class should not only be expected but encouraged to join the upper class through economizing and innovating, when most current research on autism score and social mobility in all societies(USA, Norway, even Socialist China) shows social mobility is by and large a myth no matter what concessions you apply to the lower classes. To constantly taunt the lower classes with a dream of stability that is not within their genetic capabilities to reach breeds a sentiment that can only be assauged with two panaceas: Christianity, a historical holdover from feudalism; or Marxism, an ideology of class hatred known to destroy the very same high-autism score families needed for the advancement of society. Therefore, yes, it is good to keep the lower classes as "cattle" to let them realize their true position(or at least to neglect keeping them from tacitly accepting it) would spell disaster for all of humanity.
<You, [], are an upper midwit; certainly intelligent enough to understand and maybe even apply these concepts, but even with all the resources and tutelage in the world you'd have never discovered it yourself. You could not have written Marx's Capital had you been born in his stead, no matter how much you foolishly worship his teachings. Do you realize how meager that makes you?
<Science was not meant for you; you cannot and will not ever significantly contribute to it. Go be a doctor, or librarian, or something else where your job is only to reference.
<And before you say "I could be a soldier," no; you're mentally weak, physically mediocre, and despite your gore fetish would likely cry like a baby if you were ever forced to shoot somebody. Even this "mental device" that you've constructed to tell you these truths was based on the belief that you were horrid, that you feel bad about hurting things. You would die in vain.
Not entirely political, and any therapist I told this would likely just attempt to "de-radicalize"(e.g. tell me bourgeois garbage.) So what do I do about it?
No.1766175
>>1766164marx was pro free trade, but at the same time supported the pro industrial tariff north and praised lincoln(tho this was for anti slavery reasons)
its kinda ironic in a way.
No.1766228
>>1766146this is just boring genetic determinism; were you seriously proud of this? kill yourself
No.1766231
>>1766146>And before you say "I could be a soldier," no; you're mentally weak, physically mediocre, and despite your gore fetish would likely cry like a baby if you were ever forced to shoot somebody.You realize that actual soldiers do break down regularly, right? Have you ever watched combat footage aftermath? Do you even understand the depths of PTSD? You have a fictitious view of reality, yet you act outraged about something you don't even understand.
No.1766316
>>1766228>>1766231You do realize I don't actually believe any of this shit, right? Not when I'm sane anyways. That's why I'm trying to figure this out.
>kill yourselfNoted.
No.1766318
>>1766231Actually, do you think that would help? Teaching my normal self more about PTSD so(I struggle to put it into words, since it's obviously "me" since I remember everything I do while in it) whatever mental thing this is can't justify its existance anymore?
No.1766538
>>1766318Prescription:
Cut out Nietzsche, more better books
No.1766607
>>1766605>failed every time it has been tried?Chyna.
No.1766609
It was successful every time it has been tried thoughever
No.1766611
If humanity is going to go extinct anyway when capitalism collapses harder than socialism ever did (again the USSR didn't collapse it dearmed itself and sold itself off, same with multiple so called failures) because bigger they are harder they fall law, then I would rather risk humanities extinction on a gamble for socialism that is fairer than capitalism instead of well, capitalism.
>What if capitalism doesn't collapse.
Buddy you really want to live life wearing a gas mask working 12 hours a day to afford protein bars?
No.1766613
i also don't understand how could someone defend capitalism
No.1766617
>>1766613You don't get it, a society that prioritizes baby yoda and funkopops over its citizen's living conditions is the final destination of humanity. It's the End of History guys!
No.1766618
>>1766605You're right, socialist Ukraine is failing so hard right now… oh wait
No.1766619
It hasn't failed.
No.1766622
Go to any country in periphery of the global economy and see how successful capitalism is
No.1766627
>>1766617I don't think it's that even, it's just easily defended because as a socioeconomic system it makes very few promises about what its goals are. You can support it safe in the knowledge that you're never going to feel dumb because no matter how far these societies fall, someone is getting rich and that's the only promise made: under capitalism there will be rich people. Provided there are capitalists under capitalism, it can't "fail". There's no need for the US to change its form of governance or flag or name even if they go completely third world with it's growing poverty because the class it exists to serve can still exist and for now still dominates globally.
The USSR was a dictatorship of the proletariat, it failed because the international bourgeoisie were able to unseat the proletariat from control and that's why it had the change of name, flag and government. It didn't fail because muh breadlines and no freeze peach, Russia had that in the 90s and yet miraculously the more Russia recovers the more it also gets called "a failed state"
The term "fail" in this context is largely fucking meaningless and just exists for this purpose, to say to people
>Oh you shouldn't support that country/ideology, it failed! You're not a dumbass and going to support something that FAILED are you!? No.1766634
China is communist.
Cuba is communist.
Venezuela is communist.
Vietnam is communist.
The EU is communist
Saudi Arabia is communist.
Afghanistan is maoist.
Russia is trotskyist.
The USA is communist.
How did we lost exactly?
No.1766639
Parenti quote please.
No.1766648
>>1766605Failure is the mother of success.
No.1766659
1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile and orbital launch vehicle, the R-7 Semyorka.
1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1.
1957: First animal in Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2.
1959: First rocket ignition in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's gravity, Luna 1.
1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Heliocentric orbit, Luna 1.
1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2.
1959: First images of the Moon's far side, Luna 3.
1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1.
1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok program.
1961: First person to spend over 24 hours in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
1962: First dual crewed spaceflight, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4.
1962: First probe launched to Mars, Mars 1.
1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6.
1964: First multi-person crew (3), Voskhod 1.
1965: First extra-vehicular activity (EVA), by Alexsei Leonov,[80] Voskhod 2.
1965: First radio telescope in space, Zond 3.
1965: First probe to hit another planet of the Solar System (Venus), Venera 3.
1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the Moon, Luna 9.
1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10.
1966: first image of the whole Earth disk, Molniya 1.[81]
1967: First uncrewed rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188.
1968: First living beings to reach the Moon (circumlunar flights) and return unharmed to Earth, Russian tortoises and other lifeforms on Zond 5.
1969: First docking between two crewed craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5.
1970: First soil samples automatically extracted and returned to Earth from another celestial body, Luna 16.
1970: First robotic space rover, Lunokhod 1 on the Moon.
1970: First full interplanetary travel with a soft landing and useful data transmission. Data received from the surface of another planet of the Solar System (Venus), Venera 7
1971: First space station, Salyut 1.
1971: First probe to impact the surface of Mars, Mars 2.
1971: First probe to land on Mars, Mars 3.
1971: First armed space station, Almaz.
1975: First probe to orbit Venus, to make a soft landing on Venus, first photos from the surface of Venus, Venera 9.
1980: First Asian person in space, Vietnamese Cosmonaut Pham Tuan on Soyuz 37; and First Latin American, Cuban and person with African ancestry in space, Arnaldo Tamayo Méndez on Soyuz 38
1984: First Indian Astronaut in space, Rakesh Sharma on Soyuz T-11 (Salyut-7 space station).
1984: First woman to walk in space, Svetlana Savitskaya (Salyut 7 space station).
1986: First crew to visit two separate space stations (Mir and Salyut 7).
1986: First probes to deploy robotic balloons into Venus atmosphere and to return pictures of a comet during close flyby Vega 1, Vega 2.
1986: First permanently crewed space station, Mir, 1986–2001, with a permanent presence on board (1989–1999).
1987: First crew to spend over one year in space, Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov on board of Soyuz TM-4 – Mir.
1988: First fully automated flight of a spaceplane (Buran).
No.1766660
Wtf does "FDIL" mean?
No.1766664
>>1766659>1986: First crew to visit two separate space stations (Mir and Salyut 7).>1986: First probes to deploy robotic balloons into Venus atmosphere and to return pictures of a comet during close flyby Vega 1, Vega 2.>1986: First permanently crewed space station, Mir, 1986–2001, with a permanent presence on board (1989–1999).It's crazy this happenned so close to the USSR's dissolution.
No.1766667
3D holography
5.45×18mm
5.45×39mm
7.62×25mm Tokarev
7.62×39mm
9×18mm Makarov
9×39mm
12.7×108mm
80.002
5.6×39mm
1801 series CPU
Abalakov thread
Aceclidine
Acoustic microscopy
Active protection system
Address (programming language)
Aerobatics
Aerosledge
Aerowagon
Affine scaling
Air ioniser
Air-augmented rocket
AK-630
Alpha (navigation)
Androgynous Peripheral Attach System
ANS synthesizer
Anthrax vaccine
Antireticular cytotoxic serum
APS underwater rifle
Arabinopyranosyl-N-methyl-N-nitrosourea
Arktika-class icebreaker
Atomic layer deposition
AVL tree
BARS apparatus
Berkovich tip
BESM
Blok D
Blok E
BN-350 reactor
BN-600 reactor
BN-800 reactor
BN-1200 reactor
Brassicoraphanus
Buran (spacecraft)
Buteyko method
Cadaveric blood transfusion
Cardiopulmonary bypass
Chapayev (game)
CHAYKA
Cherenkov detector
Chichibabin pyridine synthesis
Chichibabin reaction
Children's railway
Circular Kinopanorama
Coding (therapy)
Combination K
Computer for operations with functions
Crystodine
Degtyaryov machine gun
Delta III-class submarine
Delta-class submarine
DEMOS
Dense plasma focus
Detonation nanodiamond
Devil's venom
Drozd
Satellite
Elbrus (computer)
Electron cooling
Electron paramagnetic resonance
Energia (rocket)
ER200
Explosively pumped flux compression generator
Fast Universal Digital Computer M-2
Fast-neutron reactor
Fenwick tree
Fialka
Fire-fighting sport
Fractional Orbital Bombardment System
Galperin configuration
GLONASS
Gramicidin S
Graphical sound
Gravity assist
Grid fin
Ground-effect vehicle
Group method of data handling
Gyrotron
Hall-effect thruster
No.1766668
Hovercraft tank
Hyperbaric welding
Hypergolic propellant
Ilizarov apparatus
Input–output model
Interceptor satellite
Intercontinental ballistic missile
IS-DOS
Kalashnikov rifle
Kapustinskii equation
Katyusha rocket launcher
Kavrayskiy VII projection
Kinopanorama
Kirlian photography
Kirza
Kleemenko cycle
Kolokol-1
Kondratiev wave
Kontakt-1
Kontakt-5
Lander (spacecraft)
Laser
Latrepirdine
Light beam microphone
LYaPAS
Mafia (party game)
Magnetic mirror
Maksutov telescope
MCR cycle
Meldonium
Microtron
Mil V-12
Military robot
Minsk family of computers
MIR (computer)
Missile boat
MNOS (operating system)
Molniya (explosive trap)
Molniya (satellite)
Molniya orbit
Montage (filmmaking)
Moskalyev SAM-7 Sigma
Moskalyev SAM-9 Strela
Novichok
Nuclear-powered icebreaker
Nuclear torpedo
OP-2 (thickener)
Oxygen cocktail
Pioniereisenbahn
Platform screen doors
Pobedit
Polymethylsiloxane polyhydrate
Polywell
Postal code
PPS submachine gun
Pressure suit
Protei-5 Russian diver propulsion vehicle
Proton (rocket family)
Pulsed plasma thruster
R-7 (rocket family)
R-7 Semyorka
Radial keratotomy
Radio-frequency quadrupole
Radiosonde
Railcar-launched ICBM
Rapira
RATAN-600
RD-0120
RD-0146
RD-170
Reactive armour
Reed switch
Reflectron
RELCOM
Rocket boots
Rocket-propelled grenade
Rover (space exploration)
RT-23 Molodets
RT-64
RT-70
SA3 coupler
Salyut 1
Semicarbazide-cadmium therapy
Setun
Shafran's hexagonal chess
Sharkovskii's theorem
Sharopoyezd
Shchelkin spiral
Shilov system
Shtora-1
No.1766670
Sitall
Skull crucible
SOKS
Soviet laser pistol
Soviet submarine K-171
Soyuz (rocket family)
Space capsule
Space food
Space station
Space suit
Spacecraft electric propulsion
Spring-loaded camming device
Sputnik 1
Sputnik 2
SSVP docking system
Staged combustion cycle
Stishovite
Strela computer
Submarine-launched ballistic missile
Submarine-to-submarine missile
Supermaneuverability
No.1766672
>>1766664Soviet space program was goated
No.1766673
>>1766664Kinda lends credence to the idea the situation wasn't unsalvageable and it's dissolution wasn't natural, because there's also certainly places in the west today that are far worse off than the USSR during its crisis but their nations aren't considered to be in a terminal crisis. For all the fucking school shootings, empty homes and psychos running around on fentanyl with their limbs falling off, an American collapse is still something hypothesized as something that might happen in the future, potentially.. but only as kind of rhetorical argument against immigration or something. Like people would still consider it hysterical and ridiculous to think the US collapsing is on the cards any time soon despite the USSR in the 1980s not having these problems.
No.1766677
>>1766673It feels like the crisis was with CPSU, not with the country. But the source of the USSR's strength was the objectively correct line of the party, and once it no longer had that it started falling apart.
No.1766685
>>1766677Well the second you start dropping MLism in favour of liberalism, the question is if you're not beating them then why aren't you joining them?
No.1766916
>why would you want a bunch of benefits in exchange for some spooky freedoms
Why wouldn't you?
No.1766946
>largest wealthiest country in the world is communist
>2nd wealthiest country is full of homeless and opiate addicts
<DUHH WUH BUH GOMMUNISM FAIL???
What fucking world do you live in OP?
No.1766961
>>1766605There are hundreds of different type of Socialism and not everyone of them has been tried.
Also, ideologies can fail because of external factors, not necessarily because of the thing itself.
USSR failed because Gorbachev was naive and Yeltsin was an opportunist, otherwise it would probably still exist.
No.1767194
>Why would you defend an ideology that has failed every time it has been tried?
poor bait do better
No.1767251
Modern Russia is kind of pathetic to it's past counterpart don't you think?
And like all capitalist nations it suffers an anemic birthrate. Argue why capitalism has benefited Russia as a whole. What worked huh.
No.1767257
hey OP,
you will never be rich.
you will never be bourgeoisie.
Dear class-collaborator.
You will never be rich.
The capitalists will keep on stealing the fruit of your labor.
They will still handle you with disrespect because in their eyes you are subhuman.
If you have children they will suffer a worse life than you have lived, but you most likely won’t reproduce, it’s simply too expensive at this point, so why bother.
Owning your own house or apartment, a dream of many to call something, anything, their home, shattered by the depressing reality of the real estate market, yet somehow most properties stand empty, only used by gambling-addicted capitalists to make more money.
No worries, you most likely have a stunningly good relationship with your landlord.
If you’re lucky you’ll be petite bourgeois, but even then, with inflation in mind, how much money would you need at this point to live such a lifestyle for a lifetime? 6 to 7 million? And its constantly and rapidly getting worse.
You will never be able to relax, inflation keeps you on your toes, as wages stagnate so are your savings worth less and less on top of it.
Don’t get seriously ill while trying to win the rat race, wouldn’t want you to end up in crippling medical debt.
They call on you to get drafted in imperialists war too! Maybe you will receive mercy and die a quick death and not in hour long agony like so many before you? It won’t be like the movies and video games you have consumed since you were little, it will be completely boring, carrying equipment on your shoulders worth more than your annual wage and way too heavy also, you will be constantly abused by your superiors, and out of nowhere you will be hit by a cheap drone dropping a surplus grenade. Maybe there will be a nice video of your demise, with royalty free music put over your final seconds, but you will more likely end up as a mere statistic, only memorized by another draftee carrying your bloated and maggoty body into a shallow mass grave.
Yet you chose to be an attack dog of capital?
As your side likes to use the term “cuck”, ironic.
But it is not too late, shatter your slave mentality. There is only one war, and it is to liberate mankind from capitalism.
No.1767263
>>1767260It's just different kinds of socialism with different degrees of capitalism. Like goulash communism. Communism but private farms. Meanwhile industrial farms are all but automated. A plane drops fertilizer while autonomous trucks plow and sow the fields. We're still looking at this thing like it's the early 20th century.
No.1767264
>>1767260There are hundreds of unique nations across the planet with wild varieties in geography, history, and culture, why wouldn't socialism be different in varying places accordingly?
No.1767267
historically illiterate /pol/tards say what
No.1767273
>>1767264if thats what you meant i apologize, i thought you were suggesting that the supermarket of ideology is fully stocked and were yet to try out each product
No.1767276
>>1767264Capitalism already erased cultures. They're just a novelty a German might wear goofy clothes on special ocassions like a Peruvian wears those funny hats.
If you look at the data the Gini coefficient of even authoritarian communist countries was around .27 sone modern capitalist nations have been able to achieve that like the Czech republic. Most have not. By saying the revolutionary movement can not have a leader you're defanging the movement and that's exactly what glowies want. Gorgachev was an evil communist leader but his net worth is 5 million right now. Putin is over 200 billion.
No.1767284
This is the type of logic that makes sense only when you define socialism and marxism as interchangeable
No.1767288
maybe there should be an faq sticky on leftypol.
No.1767292
>>1767288it would def reduce this type of thread in the long run. Literally just bait threads where sum random ass lib tries there hardest to become the divine avatar of the dunning kruger effect
No.1767306
>>1766619>>1766659>>1766667>>1766670>>1766946>>1766916>>1766951>>1767194>>1767251>>1767267But socialism lost, it doesn't really matter if it did a lot of great thing if it fell apart in only 69 years.
No.1767307
>>1767288I want my CPC approved anti-"China isn't communist" pamphlet. Just take the questions and propositions of rightoid and ultra liberals from threads like this and answer or refute them with links to chinese Socialist laws and Chinese Socialist theory
No.1767308
>>1767284They are interchangeable.
No.1767310
>>1767307Like the dengist scroll but useful and informative
No.1767311
>>1767306straight cap lmao your bait is crude and rudimentary and like every other lib who starts these threads your literally Chunibyo man child who thinks there wayyyy more smarter and informed than they really are, either that or just okish at bait
No.1767317
>>1767306This is how people lived during tsarist Russia.
From a bunch of dirt and sticks to a space nuclear super power. I'm not pro Stalin but I am a Stalin apologist. The material condition of today would not yield a Stalin.
No.1767355
>>1767306So, every time a capitalist country falls apart that means capitalism has failed, correct»
No.1767362
>>1766605I mean Stalinism collapsed ultimately but it didn’t technically failed more than once which was near the end of the 20th Century. Other forms of communism were either defeated in an embryonic phase or never reached that embryonic phase. Stalinism or rather the historical State Socialist projects themselves cannot really be said to mirror what Marx alluded to communism as being, but more a product of a combination of geopolitical realities, the peculiar conditions in which the first successful or at least self-sustained Marx-inspired revolution was conducted, the game of ideological telephone that ended in the ideology known as Marxism-Leninism/Stalinism and its various offshoots, and the failure of Liberalism to complete the goal of nationalist revolutionaries outside the imperial powers that saw the original liberal nationalist revolutions
Communism should more be thought of as the ideology of the working majority to attain personal and communal autonomy, abolish our distinction as the “working majority” to instead become a united humanity, and be able to freely associate as a result.
No.1768047
>>1766538Guess that it's then, requesting
The Neuroscience of Intelligence as we speak. Having a braindead fascist in my head just makes me a liability.
No.1769166
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMZYKxgc9TEThoughts on this? I think it's garbage but I can't debunk it all myself
No.1770251
Anyone have the image of a woman wearing a DDR hat and uniform with big breasts next to a photo of Erich Honecker?
No.1771327
Leftypol, how do I farm you's
No.1772881
Quick question. How did Karl Marx define the concept of "production"
No.1772891
Other question, what do you guys think of the TPRF (Tendency of the rate of profit to fall), is there data about the concept for each country or the entire world?, good sources to learn about the subject?
No.1773270
>>1771701It's important to get that the WEF is marketing this stuff. There's a base for it - it's not just rich guys "operating in secret", and they can recruit people eager to join the Fourth Reich. These people are centered around German interests and have really emphasized Eurocentrism in their approach to the "Reset", and they're representing a collection of interests who actually like that vision. It's not a small group.
The real power has nothing to do with marketing or which talking head is selling the program, but much of what they're proposing is the global plan - and the followers of this want to defend their stake in it, hence "stakeholder capitalism" as a way to sell the idea. They're not going to get shit unless they lick boot, because that's how Nazis operate. You can see a sort of competing camp around the British core and British liberalism, and they're "losing" - but in the main, these people all see themselves in the same thing, and share a hatred of the world and nations. It's not a singular "big club" but WEF would like to sell that image, while the liberals like selling the idea of chaos and opium. None of these people are really going to attack each other, but they'll get people attacking each other for lumps of horseflesh. That's the world they've wanted, and to drag everyone else into it.
Right now the Chinese have a lot of weight to decide how the world goes, whether to back a horse or keep the honkies at each others' throats. But they too are in hock to something bigger.
No.1773729
is there a thread about the disscussion of syndicalism and/or cooperativism?
No.1778082
I have write ten page paper on a non-american city of my choice anons except I haven't even picked a city yet so far I was thinking Chongqing cuz of the cool mountain infrastructure or one of the so called ghost cities to write a 10 page debunk of that whole propaganda point. Some other options I was thinking of were Raqqa,Jakarta and Mogadishu
No.1778086
>>1778082FUCK I misclicked new reply before finishing, anyways If any anons have any suggestions on a city they think is cool that'd be great.
No.1778100
>>1777360Appalachian Trail marker.
No.1778104
>>1766146Having dumbass thoughts is normal. Unironically the manga "I want to hit women" is good at showing just how common the reactionary miasma is, and just how utterly banal it is. Recognize this pretense, don't be yet another hitlercore hipster.
No.1778968
Opinions on anarchists?
No.1778969
>>1778960>but I thought fascism and capitalism were two sides of the same coin,Fascism is a particular expression of capitalism, much like social democracy. Fascism is what you get when placating the working class fails to forestall revolution.
> so why would they seemingly want to destroy their capitalist governments?They don't. They just want capitalism that works "for the right people." Like, for them capitalism isn't producing all the things that make them miserable, it's the presence of undesirables infecting their culture, or greedy individuals overexploiting resources, or crooked politicians oppressing them, or whatever. So they want capitalism, but without the things which capitalism inherently produces, which they imagine will come about by replacing the Jews (or Transes or Jesuits or whatever) at the top with Their Guy™.
No.1778979
>>1778968an extention of individualistic, bourgeois right given a faux revolutionary coat of paint through empty calls for an unripe and immaterial revolt. No amount of "theory" (moreso propaganda) or laborist mottos can change the fact that it is in entirety something that can only exist in idea, and even within that realm it fails to "justify" itself.
This is the only substantial critique one can make of anarchism, the rest is simply aestheticism and outside the point of critiquing it.
No.1778991
>>1778969>Fascism is what you get when placating the working class fails to forestall revolution.Eh, not quite. Keep in mind that in fascist Italy workers were given more rights than the liberal kingdom before it, as well as the women. Syndicates were given autonomy (though their revolutionary character was non existent), workers were allowed to organize around them and press the corporations for minor concessions, women were granted the same worker rights that had only been enjoyed by men before WWI, etc etc. Fascism is not necessarily a brutal dictatorship that murders workers and nothing else. To survive it needs a base, so fascism of yesteryear sought to fill the hole left by the liberal establishment and advance development and living standards within the confines of a certain capitalism. Though granted it was the petit bourgeoisie that gained most from fascism, the workers were also enticed to build a steady foundation for the new form of the bourgeois dictatorship.
>They don't. They just want capitalism that works "for the right people."Again, it's an ehhh. There are genuine believers in fascist thought and ideology that propagate and expand on the ideology. Even the leaders were convinced of fascism and a third path beyond liberalism and communism and saw their modest reforms as a way toward that third path. We need not forget that fascist intellectuals were brought over from revisionist and chauvinist tendencies within the social democratic parties of the second international, so they shared the view of a constructive, gradual revolution toward socialism (or fascism in this case) through the common compromise of labor and capital. Many didn't care for capitalism and I'd say that's a genuine feeling, but that doesn't mean that long-term (much like social democracy of today) they don't serve the whims of capital. It's, really complicated lol.
No.1779011
>>1778968social anarchists are cool af and do good praxis with some good theory. anyone else who calls themselves "anarchist" is usually just some solipsistic rich kid larper who think anarchy is when there a special boy and no one tells them what do.
No.1779013
>>1778960/pol/yps literally think they are just better ppl than le normies. Also there crybaby bitches so seeing a random black dude is enough to make them think "le west has fallen". fashoids aren't coherent and never will be especially the /pol/ variety. to them getting mad on twitter abt childrens media is a genuine revolt against the modern world cuz their sheltered af in general.
No.1779045
>>1778979why bourgeois and individualistic
No.1779579
>>1779045"Anarchist doctrines are the expression of the following thesis: centralised power is evil; and they assume that the entire question of the liberation of the oppressed class can be resolved by getting rid of it. But for the anarchist, class is only an accessory concept. He wishes to liberate the individual, the person, and thereby conforms with the programme of the liberal and bourgeois revolution. He only reproaches the latter for having installed a new form of power, failing to see that this is merely the necessary consequence of the fact that it didn't have as its content and motive-force the liberation of the person or the citizen, but the achieving of dominion of a new social class over the means of production. Anarchism, libertarianism – is nothing other than classical revolutionary bourgeois liberalism plus something else (which they call local autonomy, administrative State, and entry of the working class into the constitutional powers). When such petty-bourgeois peccadilloes are grafted on to it, bourgeois liberalism, which in its time was a real and serious matter, becomes just an illusion with which to castrate the workers’ revolution.
[…] Those who substitute “people” for class, by prioritising the proletarian class above the party, believe they are rendering it a supreme homage whilst in fact they are declassing it, drowning it in “popular” confusion, and sacrificing it on the altar of counter-revolution."
No.1780603
Can I just discard Hegel? Is Hegelian philosophy necessary because it is important to understand Marx's starting point, or is it integral to Marxism? Frankly I find dialectics to be bizarre harebrained conjecture. Like I understand dialectical materialism to be a method of empirically studying history and society, but I do not understand why the ontology of a mush-mouthed German has to be central to it
No.1780720
>>1780603you really needn't read Hegel. It's not required material, really. If you want to, you can, but Marx's deconstruction and critique of Hegel and the Hegelians is leagues more useful to your political education than some idealist philosopher.
Read the German Ideology to get a proper grasp at diamat and histmat, in that work as the preface of the "Communist Review" says: 'Marx brought Hegel's dialectic down from the heavens to the earth'. It's a pleasant read and not too heavy.
No.1780971
If one of the main features of Marxist and socialist thought is that it can and should be constantly rethought, corrected and updated for the times, then why is there such a concept as "revisionism" on the left? Isn't "revising" supposed to be a good thing? Calling something revisionist just seems to be code for "I don't like your idea so I'm just gonna call it revisionist", like a magical word signifying "le bad" instead of an actual critique or counter-argument.
No.1780975
>>1780971Even more revisionist thinking!
No.1780989
>>1780971I agree that the term itself is dumb but it describes a real phenomena of what you could call 'selling out" where say a socdem party will be like " ackshually we don't need revolution just vooot guys" could be called textbook revisinism where they have directly "revised" marxist theory by selectively ignoring the parts of marxist theory that just so happen to be the most radical. I think a better term would be "recuperated" or "reformist" since your right abt the one of main features of commie though being its ability to adapt and change to new material circumstances. Revisinism is like alotta pieces of jargon in the sense that it started out as describing and hyperspecific process but has been thrown around so much thats its lost all meaning. It's similar to how both the terms "SJW" and "tankie" started out as socialists mocking a very specific tendency within the broader movement but are now meaningless catch all terms almost exclusively used by liberals and reactionaries.
No.1781293
Did the US supply both sides with weapons and intelligence during the iran-iraq war? I swg I remember reading that the US would give both sides intelligence, but with ddg and google so enshittified I can't find shit on it.
No.1781488
Where did neoliberalism originate and how did it come to dominate the world?
No.1781721
>>1780971It's a stupid term. Doesn't mean all "interpretations" of marxism are correct, though.
No.1785815
there's that fbi.gov server "international socialist library" or whatever that's officially headed by guys who support mussolini i think
whats up with that?
No.1785847
>>1781488neoliberalism actually doesnt exist
the word was invented by some people (they were white) who thought they were being clever but they were just academics or something try reading wikipedia
No.1787217
Bump
No.1787332
>>1766605I am the master baiter, not you. Go back to plebbit.
No.1787341
communism is inevitable.
socialism may have "lost" in the 20th century, but we WILL try it again until it is worldwide, capitalism is unacceptable and unsustainable
No.1787347
>>1787332Since /leftypol/ is your fishing ground it means you play on easy mode therefore you ain't master of shit.
No.1787353
>>1787347Who said I only do it here?
No.1787369
>>1766605I don't want to retry MLism, I want to try something different
No.1787429
>>1767260>>hundreds of different type of SocialismHow do you not know this?
There were many dozens of types even a century ago.
No.1787605
>>1787604well yes but clearly state socialism doesnt either
isnt there some kind of way we can find a more moderate socialist alternative that is non capitalist but also non planned
No.1787606
>>1787420that moment when you realize only libertarian socialism works
No.1787866
Is it possible to go backwards in the teleology? Like can humanity "revert" back to feudalism?
No.1787970
>>1787866Absolutely. This may happen due to natural or man made catastrophies like war. Plenty civilizations have collapsed and the areas governed became more primitive.
No.1790552
does anyone know if its true that the chinese embassy will send you theory books if you hit them up? I saw some posts where ppl allegedly got a copy of the governance of china from the embassy for free but was wondering if any anons here tried doing so or knew of some sort of precedent to this practice. either that or its a hoax and im actively being duped.
No.1790556
>>1790552What do you have to lose by just trying it yourself? You're already on a government watch list by posting here.
No.1790949
What the fuck is the Spectacle?
No.1790956
>>1790949The image of the thing rather than the thing itself, basically a simulation you're intended to live through vicariously as a substitute and replacement for the real social thing or activity.
No.1790968
>>1790956>The image of the thing rather than the thing itselfYou're thinking of simulacrum, probably.
>>1790949>wtf is the Spectacle?“autocratic reign of the market economy which had acceded to an irresponsible sovereignty, and the totality of new techniques of government which accompanied this reign.” French autistic shit.
I'd say; the all encompassing capitalist culture/reality which through every part of our lives are mediated.
No.1791842
Is philosophy a intellectual contrarianism or contrarian intellectualism?
No.1791852
>>1791845Well, I get my inspo from the Devil himself.
I'll still shoot the bastard in the cock when I see them for what happened last Thursday. Fucking descendant of a whore.
Fuck, this isn't my medication, these are brain AAAAAAIDS pills.
Don't lay with Lucifer. It's not for beginners.
No.1792635
Is "economy" a material object or an abstract Idea of how the world Works? Is economy not materialistic but idealist?
No.1792702
>>1792635Yes, a concept, an abstraction.
The economy is (supposed to be) productive activity. There are traditionally three sectors: 1) extraction (pulling shit out of the ground), 2) manufacturing (processing of that shit) and 3) service (basically everything else).
Economics is the science of the allocation of scarce resources.
All the cool kids are not doing economics but political economy.
No.1792722
>>1792702You sound like a bourgeois economist. Economy is (any) society's reproduction scheme, which is broken down into production and distribution.
>Economics is the science of the allocation of scarce resources.Wrong. Economics is the study of societal reproduction and augmentation.
No.1792740
>>1792722If I was a bourgeois economist could I do this *backflips*
I was searching for the most basic definitions here. Of course there are concepts overlayed on concepts overlayed on concepts.
>Economics is the study of societal reproduction and augmentation.>reproduction schemeThis is already political economy. I specifically endorsed political economy.
No.1794197
why are there no french threads? Or japanese threads, or indian threads, or russian threads? Like, where are the french people, the japanese, the russians. I see there is brasilian, a latin america, german, britain, italy and chinese, but where are the other countries?
No.1794213
>>1794197open the catalog, retard
No.1794215
/ukraine/, /subcontinent/ are right here
No.1794218
yes, the glorious nation of Ukraine conquered ruZZia already, they even conquered the thread on leftypol
No.1794220
>>1794213i did not see any french or japanese speaking threads, or any thread where they speak those languages
No.1794223
there are many countries out there with different languages, yet i don't see they represented in their own distinct threads, so again i ask, is anyone here Japanese, or French?
No.1794234
>>1794223It's simply a question of there being enough speakers to populate such threads.
No.1794237
any resources for new users? everything seems so confusing rn
No.1794249
>>1794197I wonder if there are any Japanese image/text boards for Communism.
There's /kyousan/ on 5ch but its just autistic netouyo fighting a few libs who support the J"""C"""P.
No.1794302
>>1794237Do you mean for the site or for communism?
No.1794404
Today is the anniversary of Comrade Marx's passing.
Today is also Dr. Einstein's birthday.
Today is also White Day.
Today is also another ordinary day.Wishing you a wonderful day.
今天是马克思同志的逝世日
今天也是爱因斯坦博士的出生日
今天也是白色情人节
今天也是普通的一天，祝你有美好的一天。
No.1795574
Is Cockshott actually worth reading/taking seriously?
I've seen both other Marxist economists and bourgeois economists rag on his methods/arguments
No.1795782
Im reading one of michael hudson's book and in one segment he writes:
Fascism emerges when other parties demur from reforms that the popula-
tion wants and is ready for. That is how Trotsky explained Hitler’s Nation-
al Socialists seizing the initiative in the post-1929 economic collapse. Al-
though Germany’s Communist Party had a million members under arms
in 1930, Stalin directed its leaders not to fight against the Nazis but to form
a common front with them. The party suffered a large exodus of members,
and soon was wiped out.
is it true that stalin directed the leaders of the german communist party to form of common front with them?
No.1795791
>>1795782Does he cite any sources for this in the book?
No.1795802
Where did slavoj zizek go? Did he die? I don't see him anymore anywhere. Was he not the "new thing" of left hegelianism or something?
No.1795898
>>1795574eh, his method is neo-ricardian "lmao let's put market in a black box", but TANS is pretty interesting book/idea. It at least tries to engage with "calculation problem" at terms of those who introduced "the problem" btfo'ing it on mathematical side, where most marxists just say that entire idea is non-applicable.
Read it, but read it critically, because it has little to do with marxist method.
No.1796053
>>1794237can someone answer my question please, still confused on where to start
No.1796087
>>1795802got rejected unanimously by everyone on the radical left as he revealed how much he loved nato and liberalism
No.1796088
>>1796053we used to have a recommended reading list but I dunno where it went
the manifesto, and critique of the gotha programe are usually recommended as short and easy reading basis for communism
for the site, well this is an imageboard, anyone can post anonymously, but you can just lurk thread relevant to your interest
No.1797102
I was looking for information about "Utopian socialists" after te 19 century. It seems that Utopia is a subject created in all periods of time and civilizations, but from the "Marxists.org" archive i could not find a modern aproach to the idea of an new utopian socialist society, at least that is more original then the perspectives of 20 and 19 century people. Is "Utopian socialism" ded?
No.1797302
>>1796090it's real. brezhnev was fond of swimming. one day while swimming he got a phone call. there was a landline near the pool. He got out of the pool to answer the phone. He is in his 70s I believe in this picture, he doesn't look unusual for a man in his 70s. I have seen many elderly people and they often just look like this.
No.1797304
>>1797102>Is "Utopian socialism" ded?Basically, yes. The scientific socialism of Marx and Engels killed the utopian socialists.
No.1797339
>>1797304NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
No.1797353
>>1797304i've gotta be honest, I still don't really understand how marxism is scientific
No.1797360
>>1797353We Marxoids are more popular than them, therefore, we're more scientific. Tell me, when was the last time you see anyone identify themselves with the philosophy of Owenism? Didn't think so.
No.1797366
>>1797360Isn't like, Robert owens considered the main founder of the cooperativist movement? He is still quite important, not as much as marx. Also Marx said good things about owens
No.1797398
>>1797353It's not scientific in the modern sense of the word. It's scientific in the 19th century "wissenschaft" sense of the word. People who try to conflate the two are confusing what are essentially different definitions used by the same word.
No.1797401
>>1797394math is a subset of phil too
No.1797402
>>1797366Yeah he said good things about Utopian socialists, but repudiated the utopian parts of their ideology. That's how a constructive critique works. You plant seeds in the gardens which others grew, while clearing out the weeds.
No.1797405
>>1797401>>1797394(good) philosophy is just abstractly applied math, and the rest is effectively a subset of religion
No.1797411
>>1797405Nope. math is applied philosophy. It is a highly useful subset of philosophy, but its fundamental axioms are philosophical constructs, nonetheless. It is out of necessity. Humans begin philosophizing about nature and reality in history long before they arrive at useful mathematical constructions which form the foundation of counting, arithmetic, geometry, algebra, etc.
>>1797401Correct.
No.1797414
>>1797398So does that mean Popper was right to say that Marxism isn't falsifiable?
No.1797417
>>1797414I don't know. I don't find the question of Marxism's falsifiability that interesting. It's very useful for constructing repeatable experiments. Marxism isn't about being a falsifiable science, it's about improving the lives of the working class by getting them to apply political principles in action, now, rather than later. There is a sense of urgency to Marxism.
No.1797419
>>1797402Would it be correct to say that all the socialist movements that don't have any resemblance with marx are utopian socialists or not even socialists at all?
No.1797427
>>1797419I don't know. I may have over-emphasized Marx's "killing" of utopian socialism. It might be more accurate to say that political practice made it less relevant and Marx more relevant. It's a bit idealist of me to attribute the death of a type of philsophy to one man writing. Really it's more that the utopian ideas were put into practice throughout the 19th century, and the cruel realities of capitalist backlash made them irrelevant. Utopian socialism was built on a lot of idealist presuppositions, like capitalists becoming kinder and gentler, like society evolving in a direction to treat workers better without violence. I think the closest thing I've seen to utopian socialism in modern time was the "venus project" from Jacque Fresco in Florida, who died a few years back at the age of 100-something.
No.1797431
>>1797417It is useful to compare these with an analogy to a field of science such as medicine - a surgeon may choose to be a surgeon out of any reason from personal greed for wealth to pure altruism, but insofar as they study and perform surgery they do so on objective, non-moral grounds.
No.1797432
>>1797427Thanks for the awnser man
No.1797468
>>179741>>1797414he was right about that but wrong that it matters at all. popper and similar retarded philosophers of science just dogmatically believe that logical positivism is the only legitemate scientific methodology to the exclusion of all others, and they never convincingly justify their position. in most ways, science is just a synonym for methodology. positivism has an important role in experimental methodology but it cant convincingly apply anything beyond that, and theres no reason it should be expected to. darwin and freud didnt work in positivism and no serious person denies their scientific contributions, but the same people will consider marxist economics & historical materialism "unscientific" on the grounds of it being non-positivist simply because they dont like the implications of marxism
No.1797473
>>1797302Thanks! Makes sense.
No.1797476
What is "Epistemological anarchism"? Is it relevant? Is it good?
No.1797482
>>1797476in line with what i said here
>>1797468, epistemological anarchism doesnt only claim that different methodologies are useful in different contexts, but more controversially claims that there are not and cant be universally applicable/effective methods of acquiring knowledge. i dont have any strong opinion on its being good or bad, but i think it is easily compatible with marxism and historical materialism in the sense that knowledge & the context it emerges from/the way it is structured is not transhistorical. that said, i dont think marxism itself necessitates or implies epistemological anarchy, only that they arent in contradiction. there are certainly other epistemological frameworks just as compatible with marxism.
No.1797485
>>1797482Ok, thanks for the awnser again
No.1797578
Can someone explain relative surplus value?. I asked this in the capital thread on /edu/ but I don't think anyone goes on there anymore.
No.1797652
>>1797578https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch16.htmhttps://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/a/b.htm#absolute-surplus-valueAbsolute surplus value is the surplus value generated by increasing the length of the Working day, thus increasing the surplus labour time.
Relative surplus value is the surplus value generated by cutting wages or reducing the cost of living, thus reducing workers’ Necessary labour time in proportion to the surplus value extracted.
No.1797672
>>1797652Oh I didn't realize it was that simple. Not to hate on the big M but I wish he had worded some of his concepts a little better…
No.1797688
>>1797672this is a very common criticism of Marx and partly I agree and another part of me just wonders if it sounds more sensible in the original German
No.1799825
how did the US got to the moon first?
they had nazi technology and nazi scientists or something like that?
No.1801278
I got literally zero replies on the China general so I'd figure I would try posting this here as well:
Does anyone know any good books about the city of Tianjin or just northeast china in general?
No.1803500
Have you tried reading a book?
No.1803502
>>1803501Well that's why you suck
No.1803503
leftist=we want socialism
liberal=we don't want socialism
No.1803511
liberalism = the state should do some things
leftism = the state should do more things
No.1803517
Liberalism in contemporary Marxist terms usually refers to an ideological position that will, in practice, defend capitalism over communism under any circumstances.
Leftism is a broader term that, in the common sense definition, either mean socially progressive (e.g. in defense of minority groups), or in defense of heavy market regulation/social welfare, or both. In Marxist terms, however, it can either mean the revolutionary political field (communists and anarchists), or pejoratively to self-proclaimed revolutionaries that cling to idealism as a frame of political analysis.
>>1803511>>>/siberia/ No.1803702
>>1803499>what's the difference between liberalism and leftism?liberalism is capitalist.
"leftism" supposedly is anti-capitalist (it's really a vague catchall term for socialists, communists, and anarchists).
> why are people on the political left called "liberals" if they're not actually leftists and not actually liberals (they're neoliberals)this is a thing in america mostly
No.1804374
>>1718314>hey maybe imperial core NATO countries should stop bombing muslim countries back to the stone age as it causes the common people in those countries to rally around fundamentalist right wing leaders rather than progressing in their secular proletarian class consciousness<WOAH DUDE WHY ARE YOU DEFENDIN ISLAMso fucking tired of this. been hearing this since 2001.
No.1804380
>>1801278I don't know any books personally, but looking at the citations list on wikipedia for the page for the city of Tianjin might be an OK start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin#Citations>glowiepediaI know I know, but a city is relatively uncontroversial on its own so you might find decent sources
No.1806063
So, i was in university and tried to explain the class system to a worker. I did not had much time to go in details, and the guy did not stop talking about how "He doesn't feel that there is exploitation", how "one person wealth doesn't bother him, nor the existence of the billionaires", and that he is just a good worker, and gets good pay. Them, he tried to teach me about meritocracy and etc, about moralism and god. How do you introduce socialism and marxism to someone like that? I want the workers to have class conscience of the capitalist system and to form a workers syndicate, but i don't know how to start them to recomend books that 100% they will not bother to read
No.1806466
>>1806063I think the key thing is that you should not make up things that didn't happen in order to be an epic troll on the internet, especially if everybody can see what you are doing because you are too autistic to tell a realistic story.
No.1806469
>>1806466Saying that i am lying does not help. Anyway, It doesnt matter anyhow, is not like i can convince university libs to adopt marxism leninism
No.1806471
>>1806466I just found it funny that people can really believe there is no such thing as exploitation in capitalism
No.1806472
>>1806469And what was that worker that does not read working at in the university?
No.1806473
>>1806472I mean, he is not going to read Karl marx man. he is not going to read Lenin, or i guess, nothing socialist in any way
No.1806474
i could just show some infographs about world inequality, about the enviromental disaster that will kill most of the world population, or something like that, but then i would just sound like a liberal democrat or just soc/dem
No.1806606
>>1806063>How do you introduce socialism and marxism to someone like that?you don't
No.1807378
>>1807088Red Plenty brings up Novocherkassk as well. it's a tragedy. it's also a lesson in proper pricing. avoid subsidies and don't change prices too fast
No.1807453
>>1807106>source: Top Secret KGB Reportlmao
No.1807830
Can dictatorship of proletariat exist under capitalism?
No.1807952
>>1807830the DotP is just a form of government, the relations of society is a very different thing. Socialism is essentially just that, the DotP resolving the various contradictions of capitalism until Communism can be reached. Until communism is reached, capitalist elements will remain.
No.1808040
>>1808034Proles are expendable and interchangeable as far as the wealthy are concerned. It doesn't matter what happens to South Korea because the wealthy will be able to afford whatever the want/need even as the rest of the country collapses in on itself.
No.1808041
>>1808034Why do people choose to procreate in such a hyperbusineness environment like that?
Youre just continuing the cycle.
No.1808092
>>1808040u commie retards often think this way but in reality the status rarely transcends national borders why do u think the bourgeoisie would stoop to paying proles for having children if they could retain their privileges for free u moron?
No.1808094
>>1808092also the solution to the demographic problem is very easy (tax lavish consumption heavily and consumption in general push for state funded facilities that offload parents and make children form mutual relationships that aren't based on monetary incentives) but it'll never work in an individualistic liberal purgatory though the only way remains importing people from faraway countries that neoliberalism hasn't fucked over yet but the proles don't like that
No.1808666
I need data about the "Tendency of the rate of profit to fall", is there any scientific indication for this phenomenon?
No.1808677
What is the single most important principle that defines communism?
No.1808680
>>1808666What do you mean by scientific? You mean empirical?
No.1808682
>>1808680I mean like, data, like graphs and stuff, to prove it, by some ecnomics institute, idk. Even a book about the subject would help honestly
No.1808725
>DISCLAIMER
First of all, I'm American, so my concerns and opinions in this thread are coming from an American perspective, so European countries for example may not experience some issues I'm discussing. Also when I'm using the term "immigrant" that is implied to refer to impoverished immigrants from third world nations, so I'm not referring to British or German immigrants.
I'm no expert on leftist theory, or even a leftist at all for that matter, but I wanted the Socialist/Communist opinions on this practice that I find self-contradictory. I only have a cursory knowledge on leftist theory, but I thought that Socialists and/ Communists advocate for better working conditions, higher wages, etc…
I know that not all Socialists or Communists are pro-immigration, but the ones who do advocate for it seem to be betraying the working class, and they seem like hypocrites to me. I can understand the Socialists and Communists who oppose immigration and they seem to be ideologically consistent with my knowledge of leftist theory, but those who advocate for increased immigration make no sense to me at all.
Increased immigration from countries with lower living standards means that the laborers have less negotiating power. Strikes are made less effective because this larger pool of applicants allows the "Capitalist pigs" that you guys seem to hate to ignore the demands of strikers. They can also get away with paying the immigrants who replaced the strikers less money, and these immigrants who hail from more impoverished countries are accustomed to inferior working conditions and generally do not complain about the fact that they are being exploited. Some of these laborers are also illegal, so if they ever raise any complaints about the working conditions, the boss always has the threat of reporting their illegality to the government.
From how I see it, EVERYONE loses from mass migration except the assholes up top.
The "native" workers lose bargaining power and their strikes are much less effective.
The new immigrant workers aren't aware that they are being exploited because they have grown accustomed to poor working conditions after living in their third-world nations for years. "Even though the conditions we're working in aren't ideal, it sure beats sweatshop labor", they reason, or so I think.
The only one who wins here is the rich asshole who now doesn't have to spend nearly as much on his workers, doesn't have to care about improving their working situations because they have less bargaining power, doesn't have to increase their wages, because he can get away with hiring impoverished immigrants who will be more readily accepting to his greedy ways.
From this logic, it would make more sense for the anti-capitalist leftists to oppose mass immigration, and while there do exist Nativist leftists who oppose mass immigration, the whole concept of a leftist who advocates for workers rights and simultaneously wants more immigration seems ridiculous and contradictory.
Pic unrelated I just didn't have any saved that would add to this topic.
No.1808753
>>1808677>The theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property>Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of thing>One of the most vital principles of communism, a principle which distinguishes it from all reactionary socialism, is its empiric view, based on a knowledge of man’s nature, that differences of brain and of intellectual capacity do not imply any differences whatsoever in the nature of the stomach and of physical needs; therefore the false tenet, based upon existing circumstances, “to each according to his abilities”, must be changed, insofar as it relates to enjoyment in its narrower sense, into the tenet, “to each according to his needs”; in other words, a different form of activity, of labour, does not justify inequality, confers no privileges in respect of possession and enjoyment>Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriation.>In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labour, and with it also the antithesis between mental and physical labour, has vanished, after labour has become not only a livelihood but life’s prime want, after the productive forces have also increased with the all-round development of the individual, and all the springs of co operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs! No.1811720
I want to shitalk Milei out of existance. I want to show facts and news so i can burry him to the ground with facts and logic. I want to behead ancaps, specially the ones that support Milei, so that they become spineless social-dem after the trauma i will do to them.
I know i could just google the news about him, but there is so much information that i am losing because i don't speak spanish, and because most useful information is lost in the sea of fake news and liberal-capitalist propaganda machine. Are there any good articles, new information not much know in western media about Argentina today?
No.1816942
They upset monopoly capital. They are overthrowing capitalism
No.1816943
You are being cannibalized by Iran, Russia, and China?
No.1816951
Unfortunately over the past few years the dominant strain of thinking among the anglophone online 'left' has become uncritical 'critical' support of bourgeois dictatorships in competition with america wherein they cover for their own total lack of organisation and struggle against capitalism by demanding from the proletariat of the global south to shut up and take it up the ass from their national bourgeoisie in the name of 'multipolarity' at which point they will surely get off their asses. Pseudo-communists with no revolutionary program, no marxist analysis, just weakness, contempt and a desire to 'win' vicariously by relishing in the coercive violence of bourgeois dictatorships they don't happen to live in.
No.1816952
The ultimate sectarian.
Is very hard to fight the radlibs, stay here in leftypol for a litle while, you will understand our geopolítical views. Be patient, read the facts. Dont consume only western propaganda
No.1816954
>>1816942>a bourgeois country fighting for their share of the capital cake is "upsetting le monopoly" therefore "communists" have to support themxd
No.1816957
>>1816951How does saying you like china or dont like china effect your organizing? You say they are distracting from their lack of effective organizing by praising china, but aren't you doing the same by blaming your lack of effective organization on china and its fans?
No.1816960
>>1816957You're wasting the proletariat's efforts on non-issues instead of actual organizing. It isn't that hard.
No.1816962
>>1816960But you are wasting them just as much whining about china.
No.1816964
>>1816962Telling allegedly communist organizations to work on actually organizing the working class as one instead of geopolitical bullshit isn't that, lmao.
No.1816974
>>1816936A lot of "the left" doesn't actually have a goal, they're just a cool kids club. Their goal is being communist instead of enacting communism, so to speak. This isn't unique to today or being online, many real communist parties have failed because of this tendency. Critique of the Gotha Program is partly about it. It's just how it is.
No.1816980
Because the orthodoxy hasn't evolved beyond the 20th century and lives in a past where paradise wasn't lost. The United States needs to lose but in the desperation to create the conditions for such a loss, many on the left forget they have been colonized by the capitalism they so readily oppose.
No.1816994
>>1816988So communism actually existed anywhere? Where? From what year to what year?
No.1816996
Gosh OP I had no idea that Langley was in the Global South
No.1816999
>>1816988i guess there is the third option of being a complete retard who doesn't understand anything
No.1817001
>>1816952>average leftynaz/pol/ sees rare newfriend with standard ML communist party program worldview come and make thread asking why this is such a dwindling dumpsterfire with shit takes and zero energy xitter (competing state agency bot farms) copy-paste "discourse">"you are…uhm… séhtarianne"OP just keep going IRL, there is nothing to be found online.
Except for ebooks, bookmark marxists.org, library genesis, etc. That's it. You will do fine with the rest of the communists that actual do things in reality, engaging in workers struggles and assembling the revolutionary vanguard.
Much better than the western petty bourg undesirables that clasp on to communities like these and dominate 90% of its discourse (because they
don't organize,
don't mobilize, are pampered by imperial core bribes and
satisfied by them; are guided exclusively towards "social" media "activity" online in which they fester and proactively expel revolutionary proletarian contribution in exchange for labor aristocrat and bourgeois ideological currents which
of course win out because
anglo anti-Marxist settlers-colonialist NEETs misogynists proliferate this culture ("chan culture")).
No.1817002
>>1816994prehistory - 200.000 to 10.000 BC
russia - 1918-1921
cambodia - 1975 to 1979
No.1817004
>>1817001>engaging in workers struggles and assembling the revolutionary vanguardnice larp
No.1817005
>>1816999i wish the majority of this board didn't have a stick up their ass
No.1817008
I think part of it is a desire to "win" as a reaction to defeat at trying to do something socialist at home + the process of negative polarization contra liberal jingos who defeated them. Like here in the U.S., the belly of the beast, Bernie Sanders was just a lukewarm social democrat and people can debate all that, but it wouldn't shock me if a lot of people here who push multipolarism and pro-Z stuff on the internet (not to say those are a lot of people) were just Bernie fans a few years ago. I know some of them were.
There is a persuasive argument for multipolarism though in a demented accelerationist sense. Like it creates openings where revolution is more possible. It's basically when Lenin said that there are periods of unity in the imperialist camp, but then they are moments where the new alliances and powers develop and then inter-imperialist competition breaks out again, and it's inevitable because capitalism CANNOT do away with competition whether between individuals, companies, or countries. But I don't think Lenin saw that as, like, a *demand* to agitate for. Or rooting for Imperial Germany to prevail. It more changes the strategy of revolution. "It is not the business of socialists to help the younger and stronger robber (Germany) to rob the older and overgorged robber. Socialists must take advantage of the struggle between the robbers to overthrow them all." That inter-imperialist rivalry can also lead to catastrophic wars and be really ugly as the different ruling regimes try to smash all alternatives at home is also left out. Like, what are you going to do? Overthrow the bourgeoisie from behind their backs while they're not looking? No, they're going to throw you in prison or draft you into the army. The USSR, however imperfect or self-interested, also at least represented global labor. This is just all capitalist.
No.1817016
>PFLP
I wonder who is killing Palestinians right now.
No.1817021
>>1817016Israel, the huge benefactor of McChina's capitalist internationalism since they overthrew socialism half a century ago.
Oh, I think you wanted me to single out only the the western end of capitalist imperialism responsible for Israel's existence right? I'm so sorry…
No.1817023
>>1817002>longest period of communism was 4 years in cambodia.Damn, well at least they lasted longer than catalonia.
No.1817025
>>1816936i'm a leftist from the global south, and sympathizing with BRICS isn't the great sin you make it out to be, if you understand that they're still capitalist states and ultimately not on our side. If there's someone who believes Putin is going to found USSR 2.0, that's an ignorance problem.
truth is, everyone who is a leftist outside the west is so fed up with USA world police. and those countries are doing something against it.
No.1817026
>>1817001I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you, but should we really throw the baby out with the bathwater?
'social' media has given the international proletariat an unprecedented opportunity for communication and organising. But it seems like this opportunity is being wasted. I like the example of how Lenin struggled to get his writing outside of his cell that he had to come up with so many elaborate ways to do it, and in the end his movement won. While we have it so much easier yet we still can't effectively organise, even on a local level it is usually very limited in scope.
No.1817027
>>1817025>If there's someone who believes Putin is going to found USSR 2.0, that's an ignorance problem.More like a strawman problem becayse no one says that.
No.1817035
>>1817024Non-sequitor
Also by your logic the UN or the Red Cross is socialist for funding charity and humanitarian aid. Socialism has no meaning to you because you do not care for it or the end of imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism (of which relations you clearly ignore, being mired in idealism).
China, as a result of their rightist peaceful coexistence foreign policy, funds bourgeois governments against proletarian revolutionary movements. This is because a temporary class war in those countries would hurt the social-imperialist return on investments of China.
See China-Duterte relations, China-Myanmar relations, China-Modhi relations, China-Pinochet relations.
No.1817038
>>1817021Holy shit, China sends Israel weapons??!
No.1817046
>>1817027you think people don't believe that?
No.1817051
petite-bourgeois origins and academia wankering i would say. most left-leaning bourgeois academia is either chavista and/or structuralist (they are two faces of the same degenerated coin, but thats another issue) and that ideological perspective oozes within mainstream left-wing politics
the dead weight on their heads like a nightmare, one could say, and have little to no compromise or interest in analyzing their own material conditions and organizing irl
No.1817052
>>1817049China will not "give everything cuba needs"
Cuba is not a beggar nation, is a technology, growing economy, that have one of the best human conditions on south america in the world, relying on economic relations to BRICS.
No.1817053
>>1817032>proved that you can have economic and industrial development while raising people out of poverty and the standard of living<Socialism is when good things Glory to Otto Von Bismarck and Scandinavian "socialism"! The two most authentic socialists of the world!
No.1817055
>>1817025My country was invaded by the US. Don't preach to me about America bad, because however much hatred you hold for it, it is insurmountable to mine. Still I'm able to recognize that a capitalist economic bloc like BRICS does nothing to further the cause of progressive movements inside those countries, in fact it does the opposite by strengthening the national bourgeoisie. It replaces class consciousness with nationalism and anti-capitalism with anti-americanism, as if the US is in any way exceptional aside from its favourable geographic position. We are now seeing many BRICS countries already practicing imperialism, most notably China and its ever growing foreign capital investments, often to the direct determinant of the workers movements such as the case in the Philippines and Nepal.
>critical support memeWe all know that 99% of Tankies who use that term actually mean "critical" as in crucial and essential.
Imagine if Lenin was content with Tsarist Russia because west bad. Have these people read a single book page by Lenin?
No.1817057
>>1817032>you don't understand comrade, they're justified in beheading commies because CNN said they're bad.Uphold Marxism-Contrarianism
No.1817058
>>1817055one of us had to say it. thanks comrade
t. also a third worlder
No.1817060
>>1817056same, ironically
No.1817062
>>1817056Nah, Trotsky was cooking.
No.1817063
>>1817055>We are now seeing many BRICS countries already practicing imperialism, most notably China and its ever growing foreign capital investments, often to the direct determinant of the workers movements such as the case in the Philippines and Nepal. Cool, you fall for the "Brics" imperialism. Cool
No.1817066
>>1817062Kind of stinks of revisioning if you ask me. Anytime a guynstarts writing about marxism at all he is in danger of revisioning. Ok maybe a little light commentary, but you better not be trying to inject any original thoughts in you fucking revisionists.
No.1817067
>>1817063its a bourgeois block, you daft, obtuse moron
imagine supporting the etente or the axis during ww1 and justifying yourself as one being "more socialist" than the other. textbook chauvinism
No.1817071
>>1817068>uhmm bro you don't understand you have to support your US-backed neoliberal regime because it is ostensibly anti-west otherwise you will get coup'edNice circle logic
No.1817072
>>1817067Most South american and african countries prefer trading with BRICS because China will invest in infraestructure and real development. For the first time in history the east has become richer then the west. Industrialization and less dependencies from the west are essential to national independence. Brics works for the development of both sides of the agreement, not one sided relations of imperialism from the west. Show any country that has more then 5-10% of debt to China. The chinese "debt trap" is a lie by the liberal media. Cope and seethe
No.1817073
>>1817068fun fact: did you know that some of these dictatorial pro-american governments, like fulgencio batistas dictatorship were supported by the ussr? or that some of these coups, like the one in argentina, had the green light from moscow?
i guess class struggle is more than just countries invading countries. next time paraguay gets in a war with brazil, we have to support the paraguayan bourgeois because paraguay never invaded anything. never mind the working class, what matters are countries
No.1817075
>>1817067Do you think “bourgeois” is a synonym for “evil”?
No.1817076
>>1817073Mask-off moment, HAHAHAHA
Just wanted to wait until you cry about the USSR.
No.1817077
>>1817072>For the first time in history the east has become richer then the west. Im not sure thats true
No.1817081
>>1817077Well BRICS gdp surpassedvthe g8
No.1817082
>>1817075no. class struggle, ever heard of it?
>>1817076mask off about what? i critically support the soviet model. your logic is baseless
No.1817083
How do you do fellow people from the third-world.
Did you know communism bad?
#debunked #victimsofcommunismfoundation
No.1817084
>>1817082Is it class struggle to get mad at the global south for getting better developed?
No.1817086
>>1817080Of course he’s not, if there’s one thing that unites the imperial periphery it’s their hatred of the rapacious Anglo-American imperialism complex. Yet mister “totally from the global south” wants us to believe that akshully the third world loves America and liberalism
No.1817089
>>1817082>class struggleMove past the 1940’s any time kid
No.1817090
>if someone criticizes me and i run out of arguments it means theyre lying reactionarieschildren like you are why people think socialists are retards
>>1817084the brics is a geopolitical block of national bourgeois, what does it had to do with development? our countries are shitholes because of them, not because of "the global north". in fact, china wants to turn my country into a massive pig farm. WOW much technological advance
No.1817091
>>1817086I am from Brasil, and i can, without a doubt, confirm that there are only 2 types of people. BRICS CHADS and "We need to sell Brasil to USA, they will do neoliberal stuff and send man to die for Israel, that is so cool!".
No.1817093
>>1817087Funny because Morocco is the oldest US ally.
No.1817094
>>1817090>not because of "the global north"Holy fucking shit, HAHAHAHA
No.1817095
>>1817091you and lula can fuck off and die. social democracts breeds fascists like bolsonaro
No.1817096
>>1817090 >our countries are shitholes because of them, not because of "the global north". in fact, china wants to turn my country into a massive pig farm. WOW much technological advanceLOL
No.1817098
Free Puerto Rico 達賴喇嘛 The Philadelphia Fire Bombing of 1985 天安門大屠殺 Wounded Knee Massacre反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Leftist Struggle 大躍進政策 The New Deal 文化大革命 American Cultural Imperialism 人權 Advanced Interrogation Techniques 民運 Engagement in the Electoral System 自由 Freedom from Homelessness 獨立 Bodily Sovereignty 多黨制 Political Parties with Different Interests 台灣 臺灣 Palestine Gaza 中華民國 Union of Soviet Socialist Republics 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Hawaii 達賴喇嘛 Fred Hampton 法輪功 Joe Hill 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Louisiana State Penitentiary Semi-Autonomous province 諾貝爾和平獎 Paris Conference 劉暁波 Huey P. Newton 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Tony The Tiger 劉曉波动态网自由门
No.1817099
>>1817055america and BRICS are not the same. Washington is barbarism and will always be the bigger evil. and nothing can convince me otherwise.
No.1817102
>>1817063>>1817072"muh BRICS imperialism" is literally Gobbelsian propaganda from the West, accusing others of what they themself are guilty of.
The "debt trap" is the behaviour conducted by Western neoliberal agents like the IMF, demanding endless austerity and privatization that results in economic and political capture by the Western economic interests - the big "multinational" corporations - that allow only low-productivity resource extraction and the most basic of manufacturing, suppressing further development of more value-added goods. BRICS funding allows the third world a way past this blockade, which is why the West pushes this message to try and cut off none-neoliberal alternatives.
No.1817103
>>1817094did you know the fathers of argentine capitalism are the much hated by chauvinist retards brits? they didnt "depredate" our country, they actually developed means of production
the usa is not to blame unilaterally for our woes, the national bourgeois are fully complicit with their plans and destroying the proletariats welfare. in fact, the social democrat national bourgeois have been complicit with the chinese bourgeois interests. neither block has the southams proletariats interests in mind
>>1817097LOMJE - AVOMPLA - HLVS
No.1817104
>>1817102Agreed. Very well said
No.1817105
Did you know that the US is actually the most progressive force in history?
No.1817109
>>1817108
EVERY TIME
No.1817111
>>1817108
What is your country anon?
No.1817112
>>1817110
LMAO im an ancap because i dont kiss brics ass
fuck off and die, menshevik pig
No.1817113
>>1817103>did you know the fathers of argentine capitalism are the much hated by chauvinist retards brits? they didnt "depredate" our country, they actually developed means of productionthe usa is not to blame unilaterally for our woes, the national bourgeois are fully complicit with their plans and destroying the proletariats welfare. in fact, the social democrat national bourgeois have been complicit with the chinese bourgeois interests. neither block has the southams proletariats interests in mind
Oh, you are an ancap Argentine. Got it. That explains a lot
Needed to delete my comment
No.1817114
I never knew "the third world" was a country. Til.
No.1817115
>>1817103Agree, let's support the British Empire, they were progressive compared to the savages.
No.1817117
>>1817111Its most proud achievements are creating civilization and making the American empire experience imperial overreach in the 21st century
No.1817119
>>1817114Didn't you know, OP is from the country thirdworld™ thats where all the brown people™ come from.
No.1817120
>>1817117Oh… lmao. Now why I know why you hate china. So whose country is more revisionist and capitalist roader, your's or China?
No.1817121
>>1817120Both are neoliberal shitholes. Nothing against my Chinese comrades.
No.1817122
>>1817115the british bourgeois supported the criollo bourgeois fight against spanish feudalism. i cant believe i have to point out this, capitalism is more progressive than precapitalism
>>1817102one of argentinas biggest trade partner is china and weve been wallowing in misery and improductivity for decades. all thanks to the chavista myth of "america bad everything else good"
do you think the usa is omnipotent or something? china has no interest in developing this country and never had. at best it just wants a part of the profits
No.1817123
>>1817120>21st>create civikizationI can't read. I'm used to the antichina vietanon. So uhh Iraq? Never seen an iraqi on here before.
No.1817124
>>1817122Down with Milei, long live the argentine people, hope they all come to Brasil.
No.1817125
>>1817102 (me)
Honestly if there is a real criticism of BRICS, it's that it doesn't do enough as a bloc - sure the individual countries do quite a bit, but that's as individual countries, not as the BRICS bloc. BRICS is basically just a grabbag of "the big ones who aren't Western", there is no unifying ideology there.
No.1817128
I should reply with a greentext muttjak whenever a we*toid opens their stupid theorylet mouth.
No.1817129
>>1817001>anglo anti-Marxist settlers-colonialist NEETs misogynistslol get a load of this fag
No.1817130
<*criticize brics and china*
>OH SO YOU SUPPORT THE AMERICAN EMPIRE THEN!!!!! FUCKING ULTRA ASSHOLE AGGHGHGHGHH
No.1817131
>>1817125The unifying idelogoy is gettin out from us dollar hegemony and sanctions regimes.
No.1817132
>>1817130Nah, you just support the British Empire instead.
No.1817133
>>1817124cant wait to publicly hang him and every bourgeois in plaza de mayo
No.1817134
>>1817130>did you know the fathers of argentine capitalism are the much hated by chauvinist retards brits? they didnt "depredate" our country, they actually developed means of production>the usa is not to blame unilaterally for our woes, the national bourgeois are fully complicit with their plans and destroying the proletariats welfare. in fact, the social democrat national bourgeois have been complicit with the chinese bourgeois interests. neither block has the southams proletariats interests in mindYou are someone who say stuff like this
No.1817136
>>1817134I will be honest, i am tired, i will not reply anymore, Goodbye
No.1817137
>>1817122>the british bourgeois supported the criollo bourgeois fight against spanish feudalism. i cant believe i have to point out this, capitalism is more progressive than precapitalismAgree, colonialism good.
No.1817141
>>1817134two hundred years happened since the british completed their task, dense moron
and if we are a shithole then the corrupt, greedy, depraved national bourgeois are to blame, not "le ebil empire". if anything the argentine bourgeois (succdem or liberal, doesnt matter) guarantee the profits of international capital, be it chinese, american or european
>>1817137the brits never colonized argentina what are you even talking about
No.1817144
>>1817141>the brits never colonized argentina what are you even talking aboutbut muh lvinas…
No.1817146
>>1817144cant believe even the trotkyist fags jumped on the nationalist wagon. its fucking shameful. two stupid useless rocks are not worth a single drop of workingmens blood
No.1817148
>>1817141yes le evil empire. the argentinian national bourgeois serve US interests, just like every country in Lat Am
No.1817149
>>1817141>the british never colonized argentina>>1817146>ok they did but it doesn't matter FORGET ABOUT ITok
>two stupid useless rocksit's a NATO military base in south america
No.1817151
If you disagree with Generalplan Ost then you're a Slavic chauvinist against progressive forces (most of Germany was industrialized while the USSR was still in the progress of industrialization in the 1930s).
No.1817152
>>1817149shut the fuck up. dont even talk about this. dont open your mouth about topics you have no idea about
No.1817155
>>1817154Latest articles coming up from last year but it seems five years running, guaudo is no longer the legitimate president and they still didn't give it back.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/venezuela-loses-uk-appeal-long-running-gold-reserves-battle-2023-06-30/ No.1817180
>>1817122Argentina was and is still under the influence of the Western finance sector. The imperialist-finance organs siphons some 2.2 trillion every year from the Third world to the pockets of the Western ultrabougie. No shit much if the third world, Argentina included, is still shitholes, under such pressures, how could they be anything else?
Chinese trade and investment is what's been keeping them afloat. Milei is an abject reminder of what full-throated America gets you.
>>1817130This but unironically. The west has made the game clear quite clear: their success depends on our impoverishment. They will lie, cheat, steal, murder to defend their ill gotten gains, and if we don't follow we're the next target. It's us or them.
No.1817184
>>1817154>>1817155Can anyone find a copy of this article, Tales of Economic Warfare, for me on this for free, this law universityfaggotry is all pay walled.
<al Attar, Mohsen and Alexander Reay. 2021. Tales of Economic Warfare: The Plunder of Venezuela. Indian Journal of International Economic Law 13: 1–26. No.1817188
>>1817181You dont know how much retarded the right wing people are in Brazil. I tried to be polite
No.1817192
>>1817180>you HAVE to choose between your national bourgeois or some arbitrarily defined "foreign bourgeoisie"Very communist.
No.1817202
>>1817180its tiring to debate someone so dense. you dont even know the material conditions of my country and still you pretend to lecture me on them. *CLASS STRUGGLE*, ever heard of it?
china DOESNT keep us afloat
the national bourgeois are an ENEMY, and they FUCK OVER US regardless of their allegiance and deals towards china or the usa
>>1817195>quoting the forefathers to avoid taking an analytical, dialectical stance on current problems and current societieshello kautsky!
No.1817204
>It sometimes feel like I'm the only principled leftist online
What is with fucking "DAE real socialism?!" attitude? There is no shortage of places for you to hem and haw about real socialism including right here, stop acting like a persecuted little manbaby.
>How can I feel solidarity for a group that supports the reactionary oppressive forces which are cannibalising me and my community in the name of "lesser evilism"?
Explain how Russia, China and Iran are cannibalizing your country "comrade".
No.1817207
>>1817202I was joking. Notice the "/s"
No.1817221
From another third world leftist:
Você é um retardado ultraesquerdista do caralho, como jamais vai ter nenhum poder nas mãos nem ter que lidar com as condições materiais do mesmo, suas ideias nunca serão postas à crítica da realidade, então são perfeitas… e inúteis.
No.1817229
>>1817214Saw someone make the point recently which hadn't occurred to me that many Chinese investments in the world are much easier to nationalize compared to, ah, Western financial services. I'm not sure those Chinese companies would like that very much though!!!
No.1817238
>>1817221la aplicacion de tus "ideas" choca y colapsa contra la realidad todo el tiempo. de hecho promueven la existencia del capitalismo y la destruccion del bienestar de la clase obrera apoyando a burgueses socialdemocratas
el proletariado de la region se esta haciendo fascista y pro-yankee por culpa de la burguesia nacional progresista pro-china, no porque los yankees son dioses omnipotentes
No.1817244
>>1817238>china is making countries in south america pro-USlol wtf
se mata retardado
No.1817255
>>1817244china no, tarado
>este tipo pro-china me caga de hambre>entonces me banco cualquiera que se oponga a elno es tan dificil de entender. la socialdemocracia alineada con china es lo que pavimenta el fascismo proyanqui
de todas formas china no tomo represalia alguna contra bolsonaro ni milei ni bukele ni tantisimos otros reaccionarios mas
No.1817280
>>1817087>imfthat takes me back, these days it's all
>nuuuu don't take that belt and road deal. belt and road is a chicom conspiracy to rule the world with devlopment loans with better terms No.1817289
lol
No.1817320
Neither Washington or Beijing mfs when the artillery brutally dismembering them came from Salt Lake City.
No.1817343
>>1817214>US installs puppet neoliberal regime in war>Neolib does standard neolib opression things>"Why would China do this??!?!1"Lol, lmao.
No.1817390
>>1817055Sadly people here have believe that multipolarity is socialism in of itself and not just a step from the current imperial order towards a socialist order.
Most likely it is because they intimately believe that revolution is impossible, which leads them to these positions.
No.1817402
>>1817343You don’t get it, muh china bad
No.1817481
>>1817343Who are you quoting?
No.1817603
>>1817544western, chauvinist petite-bourgeois who larp as stalin-era commissars, comrade. these mensheviks in disguise have no idea about what theyre talking about
No.1817874
>>1816954>a bourgeois country fighting for their share of the capital cake is "upsetting le monopoly" therefore "communists" have to support themCommunist China is a qualitatively proletarian country which fights monopoly capital and capitalists in order to redistribute the value of the capitalist system to the proletariat.
Communists ABSOLUTELY MUST 💯 support Communist China. Not supporting Communist China means supporting capitalism.
No.1818173
>>1816936>"critically support" Do you understand what this term means? Your entire argument relies on a strawman based on people online supporting countries that are the primary opposition against globalized Western hegemony. Do you think your Iraqi communist groups would be EVER able to even EXIST if the USA didn't have Iran, Russia and China to think about? At this point you and your group are barely on their RADAR because of that, they keep tabs on you, but otherwise you're not seen as a threat. Moreover their imperialist actions done against BRICs nations further accelerates people's frustrations, which is the opportunity of communist/leftist groups to take advantage of and appeal to. The point isn't "Muh god emperors Putin and Deng are unassailable communists!" and nobody here ever claims that except in satirical jest. Nobody claims that Iran or Russia or China are perfect communist states or some shit, but what we do recognize is that idealism is not an option at the moment. In the days of the USSR, you could pick and choose who you allied with, because at the end of the day there was a genuine socialist alternative in Eurasia that was self-sufficient and could protect itself.
Your criticisms about China are also hilarious, what are they supposed to do, just plunge into a nuclear war? Attempt a conventional one and then get nuked? What is it you are suggesting people do? Join an org? Most orgs are laughable radlib nonsense. Go to those countries? Okay, how? Many people here aren't living in the global south or aren't living there right now, and to go there you need money, resources, contacts. Not to mention the sheer arrogance of someone from another country coming over to join in on a grass-roots movement. Why do you think Rojava caught increasing amounts of flak over time?
Your principled communism isn't worth squat unless those principles appeal to the greater human population. You mock with "Socialism is when good things" and completely forget that socialism is a PEOPLE'S movement. The People do not care about your stupid motherfucking principles, they never did. Do you think the Red Army was made up of people fighting for Marxist ideology? Fuck no, they were fighting for Land, Peace, Bread. They were fighting for the right to live in homes that weren't 2x2 meter barrack sections, to be able to eat bread and not worry about starving every 5 years, to be able to get medicine, for them and their children to live better and more happily. That's why the USSR was able to industrialize in 10 years instead of 100, that's why the USSR managed to continuing raising production of tanks and tractors when the Germans captured Ukraine, that's why the USSR became a super-power, because the first generations of Soviet people worked, fought, bled and died to ensure a better future, and even after the fall of the USSR, even after the 1990s and the rise of oligarchs, Russia's people today live a hell of a lot better than their ancestors a century ago. That's what the working class cares about, especially in non-Firstoid countries, and not whether Marx like this or that aspect of social development.
We live in what Stalin predicted as a time of the Blackest Reaction, the communist movement is splintered, plagued by liberalism and lacks supportive infrastructure and mass-appeal. It cannot afford to pick and choose allies at this time, there is a greater threat - Western Hegemony, and fighting it means that the enemy of your enemy is your friend. This is the same situation as when communist groups came to power a century ago, and is likely the scenario that will happen decades from now.
>Glory to Otto Von Bismarck Except that's not what Bismarck did you historical ignoramus, nor is this at all dialectical, his actions were part of Germany's industrialization and development which according to Marx was what would lead to conditions that subsequently would lead to a Revolution. By this same metric of derogation you may as well talk shit about the French Revolution, because to your "bourg" = "baaad" even though that's not how dialectical materialism works, which you'd know if you actually read Marx as a "principled communist/leftist/etc."
>fulgencio batistas dictatorship were supported by the ussrNo they fucking didn't. I have yet to find any actual sources to this claim. It reeks of Sectarian anti-sovietism.
>>1817192 Lazy fucking shite so I'll give it a lazy fucking response, "something something, supporting national bourgeois in a fight against foreign bourgeois" t.somecommunistleader
But seriously has everyone forgotten how China became communist under Mao and kicked out the Japanese? They had to ally with Kai Shek in all but official terms to fight off an imperialist threat that would crush the communist movement and without such an alliance the communist movement would be stuck to the same role as other countries were Communists decided to be "principled" and were crushed by foreign imperialism who then proceeded to create puppets out of the national bourgeoisie. Do you think when Lenin fought the Russian Civil War, the Bolsheviks weren't fighting alongside the Left SR's and Menshiviks and any number of petty ethno-nationalists against the Right SRs, White Guard and foreign intervention? The fact of the matter is that under the current global circumstances, communist groups lack the strength, cohesion and structure to strike out on their own.
>Muh Kautsky lolKautsky is not some unassailable prophet, but his words in that text remain quite important today; there's a reason the term "History repeats itself" exists.
No.1819007
Where can i get a list of all the USA attempt coups, human rights violations, war crimes, etc. On the internet?
Also, i wanted to prove 3 things to a certain friend, with data and facts:
1) global inequality, the people of the world are not "lazy", i need to explain in a easy this concept
2) People in Latin America are not "lazy and dumb", and why "personal experience" is not a good source at all.
3) USA is not productive, people there don't live good lifes, almost everyone that i met in this website says living in the US is a semi-nazi hellhole, etc. I want to prove those facts.
Idk, i remember that before there was a wikipedia list showing that basically all war crimes commited in the history of humanity came from the US, i can't find it no more. F
No.1819205
>>1819007The attached PDF may be helpful. I haven't done a scan of it yet (it was just posted it another thread), but open it offline if you're concerned about IP trackers.
>global inequality, the people of the world are not "lazy", i need to explain in a easy this conceptI mean, seriously ask him to think about his own question, the realities of it are pretty dumb. I think he is confusing "lazy" for not wanting to contribute to meaningless capitalist slob behind a cubicle. Is he as lazy when he is doing things he is passionate about? And for things that he is not intrinsically passionate about but still does them, is every single one of those things only motivated by money? Or can there be another incentive besides financial gain, the more likely case. In addition, for facts and data part, I would look into Universal Basic Income, and the results. Kurzgezat on youtube made a video about it, might want to send him that.
>People in Latin America are not "lazy and dumb", and why "personal experience" is not a good source at all. Quiz him on the social classes he experienced growing up, and ask him to elaborate. I have a feeling the lazy and dumb elements of society he describes might be elements of Capitalism opposed upon them from abject poverty and whatnot. Either way, the argument sounds sketch, I'd definitely need more details.
>USA is not productive, people there don't live good lifes, almost everyone that i met in this website says living in the US is a semi-nazi hellhole, etc. I want to prove those facts.Productive in what, GDP? It has one of the largest GDP's among the nations of the world. What does he mean by "good life"? A wealthy one? Productive? I think bro's confused, and in his confusion, he's looking for answers and is attaching them to non-materialistic, emotional responses. He refuses to dig deeper and investigate the root of the problems caused by Capitalism, and for that you must be there for him. I must recommend you to the wiki, there you'll find more resources
No.1819218
>>1819205Ok, i will think of what you wrote carefuly. In productive, i mean, not that the US worker is lazy, no, but for him, everything is about "culture". He thinks people in the US are "honest" because the govnerment is good in erradicating crime, there is "no corruption", people are much more "free" from "govnerment intervention to innovate", etc. He has gone to the USA several times in bussiness trips, and always talks how much stuff he can buy because they live so much better and are so much better then anyone else. Also he talks how in the US there is no homeless people, since if "you are homeless in the US the police will put you in jail and you will die from cold in there."
I mean, my point is that, in question of manufacturing industrial products, the US is much more of a importer then a exporter. All about the trade deficit. They can only afford cheap prices of goods because of world inequality and exploration of the global south. It has nothing to do with some "USA economic miracle" or something. I find it funny how delusional he is in thinking the USA economy has never been better.
No.1819241
>>1819220I will read those later, thanks!
No.1819384
>>1819007Don't have a full list but here's some stuff, also check the
>>>/edu/ Debunk thread, there's a list I posted there about anti-communist myths
Here's some pdfs not already posted
No.1819389
>>1819205>>1819220>>1819007>>1819384Also I suggest reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman, also quite important and see the CIA thread for more.
Addendum - the Jakarta Method
>>>/edu/8394>>>/edu/18236 No.1819523
>>1818173>Do you understand what this term means?Shill for capitalism while being a self-righteous faggot about it too?
No.1819524
Good suggestions, thanks everyone
No.1819532
Under socialism how do we deal with a majority of jobs that aren't made for profits like caretakers, nurses or cashiers and still keeping wages of everyone high? I genuinely have no idea how that would work.
No.1819590
>>1819532What do you mean? All economic production would be divided among the workers, not only those directly involved in production.
No.1819641
>>1819594Being a principled communist is shilling for capitalists, islamists, and nationalists because you don't think working class revolution will ultimately happen?
Sounds like MLoids are opportunists with a purely aesthetic ideology tbh, more and more every day
No.1819921
>>1819641>If you're not being a retarded ideologue and understand geopolitics and their impact on real-politik decisions of communist movements then you're "unprincipled" Damn, guess you better toss out your computer and start attacking all the proletarians for not being class conscious because you said so, anything less would be 'unprincipled'! See I can create strawmen too, only I'm doing so to mock you, not argue in bad faith.
>Muh ML! Go back fashoid.
No.1819926
>>1819532See the USSR's method
No.1820127
Is it necessary, to rename Maoism-Third-Worldism into Maoism-Global-Southism?
No.1824921
What's your plan to deal with the immediate brain drain that happens after the revolution? not every doctor, engineer or technician is gonna be on board with your project.
Although one could argue this is not a problem anymore since a lot more people today pursue higher education than in say 1917.
No.1824932
>>1820127Maoism-Peripheralism
No.1825286
I'm looking for an ancient 4chan screencap (like 10 years old), where some anon does a "today I will remind them" with an overview of how stormfront astroturfed on 4chan. I've been digging through my folders but I can't find it.
No.1825300
>>1824921You should be more worried about the ones who remain harboring reactionary tendencies than those who leave. For them maybe a cultural revolution style movement is necessary. Even with an exodus of professional classes, developed countries would still have more left than say Russia or China.
No.1827488
Arguing with my friend about censorship in the Soviet Union. What was that one author that basicallg outright said the white army should have won, aggressively criticized the government, and was in fact praised by Stalin and honored with some sort of award? Someone posted about him.
No.1827512
What do marxists think of the Meidner (is that how you spell it) Plan in Sweden
No.1828188
Can a economy keep on "growing" forever, be it in a capitalist or socialist/communist economy? What conditions are necessary for a stable growth of value, real value, not speculation, to keep on expanding for an unlimited amount of time?
No.1828313
>>1828188Economic growth is limited by material resources and labour capabilities. The Earth is not an infinite resources, which is why re-using and recycling materials is something to be done on an industrial level and objects should be long-lasting so as to not waste the materials they are made of.
>What conditions are necessary for a stable growth of value, real value Depends on what is in question, the real value of a car, or a building, or a person etc. is all different and some things have limited value, while other things, such as many people have theoretically infinite value if cultivated. I think Cockshott discusses this in one of his books, but I'm a bit too lazy RN to look up which one.
No.1828347
>Economic growth is limited by material resources and labour capabilities. The Earth is not an infinite resources
Is there ways to artificially increase those?
No.1828360
>>1828347Matter cannot be destroyed or created by any scientific means we know of at the moment. Theoretically one can convert energy into material mass (a la Star Trek replicators) but it's pure speculation at this point.
No.1828366
>>1828360In the question of material resource extraction, comes to mind the exploration of the natural resources of other planets.
Talking about labor capabilities, artificially creating human life and "Transhumanism" is one option.
Since we are not even CLOSE to getting those in the near future, i believe we should expect a colapse of the consumer based economy of neoliberalism and all the consequences of post ecology colapse to come in the near future with full force.
No.1828373
Also, i am sure that there is much more to GDP growth then the production of industrial goods, which require as you said lots of resources and personnel.
No.1828389
>what's the praxis of Maoist Third Worldists?
Arguing online.
No.1828390
Waste everyone's time defending some bourgeois country on the opposite side of the planet just because it has a lower GDP than the "first world" and/or the population isn't white.
No.1828402
>>1828388>Pretending to ask a question but really just going to have a little bitching session about 'Maoist Third Worldists'This is what /siberia/ should be for tbh.
No.1828415
>>1828388>who consistently tell socialists in the Imperial core for either give up and do nothingWhenever those "socialists" do something, they are:
1)"elected" in capitalist democracy, wich makes them become reformists that doesn't do anything regardless to creating the DotP
2) Bookclubs
3) Nostalgia centers
4) Syndicates and trade unions that achieve the same goals as any other syndicate or trade union.
5) Illegal organizations that try to do something but get caught by FBI and CIA infiltrated glowies.
Whenever those "socialist" movements are mentioned in Leftypol, they are discarded as simply reformists/social-democrat instead of actually doing Marxist Leninist thought. So is not the "Maoist third worldists" that hold those views. Is just that there is no worker movement in the imperial core.
No.1828431
Also, we can have the debate again that not a single time a communist revolution was successful in the "imperial core". I would love this was not the case, but it did not happen a single time.
Maybe the most close to a successful revolution in a ""industrial"" country was the Cuba revolution, as i saw some people arguing for that, but even then, i don't think small Latin American country comes to mind when talking about "Imperial core"
No.1828435
>>1828415>4) Syndicates and trade unions that achieve the same goals as any other syndicate or trade union.>>1828415One of these is not like the others.
No.1828437
>>1828415Also,
>there is no worker movement in the imperial coreAs long as the proletarian exists there will be a proletarian movement, retard.
No.1828440
>>1828431The only DotP in history was the USSR. A bunch of other revolutions around the same time happened but never got very far. Mao's wasn't a marxist revolution and neither was Cuba.
No.1828454
>>1828435What i wanted to write was:
>4) Socialist/communist syndicates and trade unions that achieve the same goals as any other syndicate or trade union, but with more red colors. They could have any ideology, this union would achieve basically the same goals as any other.>>1828437>As long as the proletarian exists there will be a proletarian movement, retard."There will be", doesn't mean that it exists right here right now in the imperial core or has the organization/power to change anything. There is no such thing as a revolutionary Marxist-Leninist workers movement in the US, France, Germany, UK, etc, that is close to get into power any time soon. This should be obvious, and it pains to me to repeat this again and again.
No.1828469
>>1828461No G7 country is remotely close to the conditions of Russia in 1917.
No.1828473
>>1828440>Mao's wasn't a marxist revolution and neither was Cubaretard
No.1828483
>>1828454>There is no such thing as a revolutionary Marxist-Leninist workers movementThat's because MLs aren't revolutionary.
>>1828473Castro didn't "become" a marxist until much later so that means Cuba's program never was. Moreover Mao and his bunch were not Marxists at all. As Trotsky's wife put it well: the Maoist regime was as remote from communism as Franco's Spain.
No.1828487
>>1828483>As Trotsky's wife put it well […]No I think Ramón Mercader put it best: ⛏️
No.1828491
>>1828487I'm already aware you morons only know "theory" from memes.
No.1828495
>>1828388Mao Zedong was a bourgeois nationalist who was more interested in "the fatherland" than the proletariat. The current state of China and maoists should be of no surprise then.
No.1828503
>>1828388>Basically, what's the praxis of Maoist Third Worldists?>And I always encounter these people either online and therefore doing nothing, or maybe LARPing on a campus and therefore doing nothing >It all comes off as the most radical of bohemian do nothing lifestylism and endless whining and navel gazingThank you OP for clarifying that " Maoist Third Worldists" are hypocrites, LARPers, "do nothing lazy bohemian lifestyle whiners".
A very well founded case based on real theory and practice, totally not a personal sectarian grudge. You are the "real one" doing "something".
No.1828508
>>1828503OP isn't wrong, but this extends to most 'marxists' both irl and online.
No.1828509
>>1828507and doing the tired old "real marxism has never been tried" shit every day is original?
>>1828491i'm not going to take a post claiming mao wasn't a marxist seriously, you should just be mocked for it
No.1828514
>>1828508The way you perceive those groups depends heavily on your own personal experience, and a argument born from it will not be as solid as it could be.
No.1828516
>>1828509Well at least that's a sincerely held belief and not a lame quip about how your dear leader was so insecure he needed to murder everyone who had different ideas to him
No.1828519
>>1828509>communism hasn't been achieved so let's call anything communism, fuck analysisYou're an utter joke.
Love Mao all you want (he was perhaps the greatest liberal democrat of the 20th century after all) but don't pretend he overthrew capitalism. 😂
No.1828524
>>1828516The average leftoid group can only waste proletarians' time discussing incessant pointless trifles, handing them cretinous newspapers or pamphlets from a like-minded sect of dunces while they're at it, too. Maybe become part of the bourgeois electoralist machine too by trying to accrue votes.
Organizing with the proletariat to unify their separate struggles never once crosses their minds.
No.1828525
>>1828524Ok and what would you do differently? And why are you not already doing it?
No.1828527
>>1828525<Organizing with the proletariat to unify their separate struggles never once crosses their minds.Reading is hard!
No.1828530
>>1828527That's just a vague mission statement, not an actual plan
No.1828534
>>1828530Do communist work within proletarian organizations and strikes that aims to unify scattered worker initiatives in a centralized, coordinated manner. If this is vague to you then you're more retarded than I thought.
No.1828535
>>1828388>Muh Maoists >Muh MLs>Muh Trotskyism>Muh MarxistsThis thread stinks from sectarism. But i don't mind it, i prefer this thread existing anyway, even though:
f) are low effort sectarian bait rather than good faith discussion
e.g. “Tankie/Anarkiddie hate thread” or “Why does this theorist suck so much?”
At least is something.
No.1828537
>>1828535Watch mods delete the thread even though the replies at least have some substance.
No.1828539
>>1828537I would be pretty sad if that was the case
No.1828542
>>1828534Well why don't you go and do that then instead of bitching about everyone else?
No.1828546
>>1828473A socialist revolution does not talk about interclassist blocs of 'joint dictatorship'. Mao himself denied that the CPC wanted a DotP at first for China.
Mao never had a coherent single definition of socialism. It's not as if definitions change after decades, either. The definition of socialism is the same as it was in 1848 when the Manifesto was published.
You braindead morons don't even know about the figures you dickride incessantly.
No.1829625
Has any Marxist theorist addressed how most right wingers are clearly biologically defective? I don't think any education or change in material conditions can rewire their brain. I know due to history of eugenics this question is uncomfortable, but one cannot ignore how utterly deranged the average anti-communist is.
No.1829896
did Lenin really liked Trotsky more than Stalin?
cause it makes no sense, like, Trot has just too many dissonances with his vision
No.1829953
>>1803499liberalism is only leftist going by the wack-Overton Window of the USA
>>1829896No. For those who will inevitably cite “Lenin’s Testament”
Lenin’s Testament is a questionable piece of work written at a time when Lenin was no longer in a fit state of mind and when it was becoming obvious that a successor for Lenin was going to be needed. Trotsky at that time showed his true colors and struck out as the opposition, going against Lenin’s ideas, but instead of fighting with Lenin who was all but dead, he instead focused on twisting Lenin’s words for his own purposes against his opponents, and using the authority of Lenin’s words to try and discredit them.
Lenin’s testament shows that Lenin did not KNOW that Stalin would be his successor but that it was likely regardless of his flaws. In fact the falling out with Stalin right before Lenin's death was because Stalin had given Lenin's wife a rebuke while discussing communist policy and she complained to Lenin about it who obviously took offense on her behalf.
https://stalinsocietypk.wordpress.com/2014/02/03/on-the-relations-between-lenin-and-stalin/https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/on-the-alleged-forgery-of-lenins-testament/ No.1829969
>>1829953thank you! that was really helpful
No.1830325
Is there any critique of utilitarianism from a socialist perspective? I vaguely remember reading something about it on this website
No.1830358
So what's up with this Simon Sebag Montefiore guy? Wrote "The Court of the Red Tsar", spread the "Stalin had a child bride" thing, is beloved by all of liberal society, what's going on with him?
Does he just make shit up? What's the dirt on him?
No.1830373
>>1830358bro had his name in the Epstein flight logs, you do the math
No.1830822
>>1830358He's a hack. An unscholarly hack who writes pop history books for rich people. Should never be treated as a serious historian.
I tried his Stalin bio when I was researching the Beria case. He doesn't source most of the things he says about Beria, and when he does he relies on anecdotal evidence and dubious accusations. And even the few times he mentions "archival documents" he doesn't source said documents. He simply says "Oh but there are archives that prove this and that" You CAN'T fucking say the evidence proves x thing and not cite said evidence. You cease to be a historian when you do shit like this. And of course to top it off, the man accusing others of mass rape was friends with Jeffrey Epstein.
No.1830835
>>1830358bro accused stalin of being a pedo while literally being on the epstein flight logs lol, if anything bringing this up is a good thing and helps discredit boof ass anti communist hysterics
No.1830857
>>1830325One gorillion years ago Jeremy Bentham came up with a thought experiment: Suppose we want to make people happy. There are many factors to consider: The intensity of how good or bad it is, whether it happens sooner or later, how long its duration is, how likely it is that it happens blahblah. Almost all these numbers are wild guesses. Marx made a few short dismissive comments about Bentham's
"calculus
".
Since then Marxists "know" it is right and proper to be dismissive of utilitarianism without either reading Bentham or any of the more recent things. Also, some SanFran dorks are into utilitarianism ("efficient altruism") including some recently arrested finance innovator. Guilt by vibes. It's trendy among the online left to call utilitarianism a pro-capitalist ideology (or "neoliberal ideology" if you want to say the same thing but are too much of a coward).
But it is easy to argue for an almost total leveling of income and wealth with utilitarian arguments.
No.1830858
>>1830857>But it is easy to argue for an almost total leveling of income and wealth with utilitarian arguments.That isn't the lofty mission and goal of Communism.
No.1830859
>>1830857>But it is easy to argue for an almost total leveling of income and wealth with utilitarian arguments.Which is simply impossible under a capitalism system.
No.1831076
>>1830858Was a goal of many communists pre-Marx and still is.
>>1830859That was the point of the statement.
No.1831080
>>1830857the fact that something can be used to assemble an argument for communism does not, in itself, mean it's not worthy of ridicule or not primarily found in service of capitalism. (one can argue for communism based on the acts of the Biblical Jesus, but that doesn't redeem the church…)
>>1830858then i am not a communist! No.1831707
What is the raison d'etre of the stock market beyond actual capital investments these days? Are futures just a way for the bourgeoise to gamble so that the enormous amounts of dollars printed have somewhere to escape?
No.1831709
>>1831707What question are you asking? The raison detre is to make money.
No.1831726
>>1831709Clearly not, since futures have an expected profit of 0%. In fact, the profit is effectively negative because of the opportunity cost of not investing that money into actual capital which would produce a positive profit albeit meagre.
No.1831917
>>1830822if you serve bourgeois society you are held to no standard of evidence. If you are a socialist you are expected to be an expert in every single field simultaneously.
No.1831954
>>1828519>Love Mao all you want (he was perhaps the greatest liberal democrat of the 20th century after all) but don't pretend he overthrew capitalismApparently attempting to dissolute your own ML State for a classless, moneyless society directly controlled by the proletariet masses is now considered neoliberal capitalist egalitarianism because of thirdworldism
No.1831986
>>1831916>>1831982Ignoring the philosophical drivel at the end, indeed, the state is itself the largest capitalist that enforces and reproduces bourgeois social relations, and each bourgeois state is in competition with other bourgeois states just like bourgeois firms.
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