No.11465[Last 50 Posts]
Well it's another day of /pol/fags raiding. Given the increased attention our board has gotten I figured I should write up a critique of /pol/; both the "arguments" it makes on here as well as its ideology in general. Maybe some /pol/lyps read it and take it to heart, most likely they wont. This is just an open post anyone can comment on. I'm slightly hungover, so forgive me if this comes across as a bit incoherent.
/pol/'s ideological problem
/pol/ is ostensibly a "fascist" board. Though its far removed from the fascism of yesteryear. Whereas Italian Fascism at least had an intellectual and philosophical component to justify itself, whereas it could elaborate on some basic tenets (even though it would contradict all of them at some point) Nazism had no such thing: just an incoherent conspiracy.
What both Fascism in its Italian and Nazi forms had—that /pol/ certainly lacks—is collective discipline. Most of the early blackshirts were veterans of WWI. The success and organizational power of the fascist movement could be attributed to the work of these veterans who, to their credit, actually were fairly efficient at what they do.
>What was the base of classical fascism?
<Veterans and the economically devastated middle class.
>What is the base of modern fascism?
<An economically devastated middle-class.
All /pol/ is home to is the socially maladroit children of middle income earners. Well, and Boomers screaming at the world as the last synapses in their brain burn out. Of course there may be a few exceptions here and there (and its obvious /pol/ anons like to LARP as the exception to the rule) but for the most part the same people are attracted to /pol/: The children who sat alone on the playground. The incel seething at some happy couple in a coffee shop. The kind of person who thinks they're one life coach grifter away from finding real happiness.
Everything /pol/ does is directed by their class position as the children of middle income earners, as asocial loners with serious self-esteem issues. If they do have a career, its likely as a contractor or some white collar worker that is isolated from or in direct confrontation with other workers. Either way, it leads to /pol/ being collectively impotent.
Comrade Stalin once taught that Anarchism is a strain of liberalism, in that it sought the total liberation of the individual. I believe that Fascism, by contrast, promises the total tyranny of the individual: a way for maladjusted individuals to exercise violence upon others to satisfy their libidinal urges. Every Fascist wants to be a king in their own right, what this usually means is that where Fascists attempt to organize in the modern day, their orgs fall apart due to infighting and backstabbing.
/pol/ can tout campaigns such as placing "Its Okay To Be White" posters on college campuses, but at the end of the day these are individual actions and can only affect individual change. The Fascist violence of today is individual violence: its the fascist murdering groups of school children. Its the fascist gunning down peaceful churchgoers. The only "change" /pol/ can manifest is individual psychos throwing deadly temper tantrums and rallying more people against itself.
>inb4 "but we memed Trump into the White House"
No. The Republican Party did. Oh sure, the enthusiasm you guys showed for Trump helped, but if he'd done anything but run Republican he would've fallen on his face. You were accessories to his victory, not the deciding factor.
Which brings me to my final point: you've all been useful stooges for right-wing parties. What was your overall strategy? Well, to use the only power left to you (voting and whining) to put people who say the right things in office, then you act shocked that they pursue an agenda that's compromised by the status quo. Nevermind that you don't have any infrastructure outside of mainstream right-wing political parties. Nevermind that you have no policies other than impotent rage at everything around you. You approach politics like a kite approaches the wind: you let it blow you around and pray you go in the "right" direction.
/pol/'s tired arguments
If any board encounters /pol/ they usually trot out the same arguments again and again.
<"Are you afraid of debating us? Why do you ban us? Why do you not let us discuss race theory? It's because you can't respond to it, isn't it?"
I'll be perfectly frank: /pol/ is a cancer. That cancer is what killed 4chan.
Wherever "discussion" that leaves the door open to White Nationalists happens, they flock to it like a moth to a flame. Usually because they're despised and insta-banned everywhere else. The idea that /pol/ was a "containment" board is laughable. It was a fucking lighthouse for fascists, and soon began to leak into other boards. It was /pol/, not moot and not reddit, that killed 4chan. As your board grew, you began leaking onto other boards: /v/, /co/, /tv/, and so on.
You weren't changing peoples minds. You were pushing the oldfags out with your excessive faggotry. It was always "uyghuruyghuruyghuruyghur", constantly, and while the chans had always been known for edgie humor, at least /b/ could change things up now and again. Your entire board's culture is dedicated to seething about all the sex blacks and Jews are taking away from you. You'll constantly shit up /v/ by bitching about "woke devs", you'll shit on /tv/ shows for having some interracial couple (and for being unable to get the image of a black man pounding a white woman out of your head.) You made 4chan, as a whole, a far less entertaining place.
You're cancer. The internet is better off without you.
<"Lefties oppose Capitalism. Yet they do things international firms like. Curious."
Whenever /pol/ tries to claim that the far-right are the real anti-establishment heroes, they'll always trot out some example of Leftists being opposed to harsh-immigration laws and Rightists being in favor of them, with big firms usually siding with the Left. Somehow this is supposed to imply that Leftists are the footsoldiers of Capitalism. Let's consider the following points, however:
>Leftist support for immigration devolves to not brutalizing immigrant laborers with the long arm of the state.
>The Right never offers an immigration proposal that would punish firms that hire foreign/illegal labor, only punish the laborers.
>Corporate support for immigration amounts to profit-seeking at worst, lip-service at best.
The fact is large corporations support immigration because it allows them to pay a lower wage. You're not a revolutionary for recognizing that. However instead of taking the common sense position that the corporations themselves should be punished for driving wages down, you always seem to wind up on the side of brutalizing the immigrants.
And do you know what? Megacorps love our current immigration policy perfectly well! Harsh penalties for "illegal" immigration means you can hire people at a sub-minimum wage, avoid paying them benefits, and at any time you can use the threat of police violence to keep your workers in line! You'll suffer none of the consequences if it turns out you utilize an entirely immigrant-based workforce, instead you're rewarded for it with additional profits.
All the Left wants is for our fellow workers to be treated as human beings, rather than as subjects of a totalitarian regime.
<"Generic Holocaust Denialism, FBI Crime Stats, Bell Curve Nonsense."
There's a saying that /pol/ would be wise to learn: "It takes ten minutes to debunk a ten-second lie."
You can throw all the graphs, stats, and empirical evidence you want out there, /pol/, but the fact remains that all of these things can be faked (and quite often /pol/ shares completely manufactured quotes) or misinterpreted. Shit, if you're as autistic as most of us here, it could be easy enough to convince people the earth is hollow.
That "normies" can't respond to your evidence isn't because of the power of the evidence itself. Its because literally no one things about race and racism as much as /pol/. Normal people don't spend their day meticulously combing through "Justice for Germans" and hearing "both sides." To expect that of them is ridiculous. You can create the appearance of having an empirical ideology while being as far from correct as possible. When you have a view beforehand and look for evidence afterwards, you can remarkably find a lot of it.
<"What about an alliance?"
An Alliance between fucking what? Boards? The fact is the jannies just clean up the shit around here, they don't direct us. Much as yours don't direct you. Any "Alliance" would just be a degree of courtesy between individuals on here, and it'd be just as politically impotent as either of our boards.
The only "Alliance" with actual political power between far-left and far-right would be an alliance between parties: which you largely don't have and we largely want nothing to do with.
I mean, who on the Left would actually want to ally with you guys? The CPUSA? Yeah no, we have older comrades who remember your lot shooting union workers for the "crime" of wanting a higher wage. The PSL? While we have our differences, they aren't going to throw their lot in with the fucking Nazis. Trots? Shit, I'd like to think they're better than that.
An Alliance to do what? You expect us to march side by side at protests? Us carrying the red flag of Socialism and you carrying the Swastika? What'll happen the next time some cop inevitably guns down a black person and you start howling "uyghur had it coming!"?
No alliance with Fascists.
TL;DR
/pol/ is a cancer on everything it touches and mistakes annoyance for wit.
No.11466
QUICK someone post gore or something to derail the thread so I feel better about my beliefs that /pol/ indoctrinated me with because I'm a young impressionable loser.naziNazi
No.11469
>>11467they do read,but90% of it is either larp,romanticized western history or ""philosophy"",the other 10% is inciting manifesto.
No.11472
>>11470Based old screencap.
No.11473
>>11467All a reading list like that could accomplish is giving someone a really schizophrenic political education.
Also I'm not seeing much from Italian fascists in that list. Where's the doctrine of Fascism?
Honestly, the Nazis were the more incompetent fascist movement, so I'm at least glad to see they continue to be an albatross around /pol/'s neck.
No.11475
>>11473Whoever came up with it seems really gay for Rothbard.
No.11476
>>11473What happened to the leftypol reading list?
No.11483
>>11479We really need to revive the reading sticky.
No.11486
>>11484I like how the chart doesn't include guenon's criticisms on christianity
nazbolNazbol No.11487
>>11483Second this. Jannies you know what to do
No.11488
>>11485Metropolis is not leftist, beyond the superficial glance in its themes it's fundamentally fascist, which is probably also why it was literally Hitler's favorite movie. I say this as someone who got cucked by watching it, expecting a dope socialist movie.
No.11490
>>11489Kill yourself class collaborationist
No.11492
>>11490less angry, more scarry.
No.11493
>>11488Yeah I don't know how you can watch metropolis the whole way through and not see the inherent class collaboration message there. I think at one point Goebbels unsuccessfully approached Fritz Lang to try and get him to produce a film like the Battleship Potemkin but glorifying the Nazi cause
No.11494
>>11488Didn’t Lang leave the country after Goebbels tried to recruit him to do propaganda for the NSDAP?
No.11495
>>11493Battleship Potemkin is honestly still great and everyone should watch it. It completely changed how I look at movies.
No.11496
>>11495It's one of the best anon…still one of the best. Damn Eisenstein was a visionary
No.11497
>>11495Absolutely, I have a large interest in everything having to do with the 1917/18-1939 period and Soviet films from that time were among the best works to come out of the period.
No.11499
>>11498Don't be mad I posted some papa joe, anon. It's just some humour
No.11500
>>11496>>11497I kind of want to make a thread in /hobby/ or something about BP and its parallels with
Shin Godzilla No.11502
>>11478I would post some more, but it's always "unknown file extension". Dammit
No.11504
>>11502check if they're saved as .heic/.webp (even if the filename is .png/jpg, open it in paint and try "save as" and that sometimes reveals that the filename is a lie.)
No.11505
>>11494Some of the worst propaganda are made by people who don't realize they're making propaganda. Whether the director himself was a card-carrying nazi or not isn't really relevant.
No.11506
>>11504They are saved as webp. I don't know how to change it desu
No.11507
>>11467am I out of touch or is this a crypto-leftist chart?
No.11508
>>11507>Hayek, Rothbard, Rand, Niall Ferguson, Bell Curve, Lectures on the Holocaust, Debating the Holocaust, Hobbes, Mises, etc.No it's not crypto leftist.
No.11509
>>11508The leftist books on that list are probably for 'debunking' purposes. Although some are admittedly strange, like Battle Cry Of Freedom (ACW book written by a fairly leftleaning author) and Homage to Catalonia.
No.11511
Good effortpost OP but you forgot to mention how much stormfags astroturfed 4chan and /pol/ around 2012-2015.
No.11513
>>11511I figured it was irrelevant, /pol/ and stormfront are practically one in the same at this point. All /pol/ did was essentially act as a beacon for these faggots to kill off 4chan.
No.11514
based CPUSA AnonsocialismSocialism
No.11515
>>11465Interesting. Wondered why this board is so dead.
>/pol/ is fascistThat's an oversimplification.
>that leaves the door open to White Nationalists happens, they flock to it like a moth to a flameWhen a poor man asks for alms, and all shut him out but one, what will that poor man do?
>their class position as the children of middle income earners, as asocial loners with serious self-esteem issuesProbably, but it isn't much different from the people here.
>a way for maladjusted individuals to exercise violence upon others to satisfy their libidinal urgesIt all comes back to sex with lefties doesn't it? When everything is a penis, this says more about them than /pol/.
>You weren't changing peoples mindsThey changed mine. It seems unfathomable to some that one may go from typical commie or just far left beliefs in general over to the generalized majority of /pol/.
>Generic Holocaust Denialism, FBI Crime Stats, Bell Curve Nonsense.I appreciate how this paragraph offers nothing to the contrary, only suggesting that /pol/ is erroneous because you said so.
>It takes ten minutes to debunk a ten-second lieYour ten second lie is defeated with a meme. It takes lefties ten minutes to debunk a ten-second meme because they're incompetent.
>Its because literally no one things about race and racism as much as /pol/Not sure. May be true. It's certainly an issue worthy of being broadcast and taught in schools and universities constantly.
>mistakes annoyance for witProjection.
Enlighten me lefties. What makes you come here? I came here out of curiosity. No activity on the rest of the threads, and this one said /pol/ so I went 'aha! this should be interesting'
No.11516
>>11513>killed 4chanI see this regularly. /pol/ is more active than almost all other boards, and certainly more active than here. What do you mean they killed 4chan?
No.11518
>>11517No. Do you have anything else?
No.11519
>>11516At least a third of those are bots
No.11520
>>11517What makes you say that?
No.11521
>>11520 meant for>>209467
No.11523
>>11515You typed so many words just to say “no u.”
No.11524
>>11515>Enlighten me lefties. What makes you come here?Only non redditized leftoid space. Only arguments on /pol/ worth entertaining are hereditary "race-realist" ones but that era of /pol/ is over. It's a boomer place full of nonsequitor "I'm a retarded based chad, you're an ugly cuck" meme spam.
No.11525
>>11515>That's an oversimplification. yeh you're also a bunch of boomer libs
>When a poor man but you're all rich kids
>It all comes back to sex with lefties doesn't it? When everything is a penis, this says more about them than /pol/.http://understandingworldreligions.com/classic%20works/Goodrick-%20Clarke%20Occult%20Roots%20of%20Nazism.pdf Press f3, type "sexo-racist gnosis"
>They changed mine.(((they))) yes indeed
>>11468What makes me come here? Memes and news
No.11526
>>209504
Good, maybe finally I'll stop wasting time online if I don't.
No.11528
>>11522???
>>11523You didn't read it. If you did, you should try reading again, but slowly.
>>11524>only non redditized leftoid spaceThat's fair. Disagree with the rest
>but you're all rich kidsSo /pol/ is rich, middle class, and poor at the same time? Odd. I was using a metaphor though.
>(((they)))Yes, the jews have shown me the light of the israeli lobby…
>memes and newsFair enough I guess.
That link just takes me to a whole book. The search pulls up a bunch of assertions of a sexo-racist gnosis, without delving into any sort of meaning. If it's hidden deep in the book, I do not have time to read it at the moment.
No.11529
>>11527>>209508Why are those threads the only threads you visit? Twitter screencaps, is coffee good for you, and other sorts of spam means someone cares enough to go do that. Whether it's favorable or not, I would call it alive.
No.11530
>>11528I reread it. Again, you might as well have written no u.
No.11531
>>11515>It all comes back to sex with lefties doesn't it? When everything is a penis, this says more about them than /pol/.<N-no uAnon, you can't go less then a single thread on /pol/ without something being mentioned relating to sex in some way, and its dishonest to state differently. Look on this catalog, and count the number of threads relating to sex. Now go to /pol/, and count the number there. I count about 11 or 12 on the catalog, 5 about sex directly and about 6 regarding woman and sex, with your regular porn spam inbetween.
No.11532
>>11529>Why are those threads the only threads you visit? Twitter screencaps, is coffee good for you, and other sorts of spam means someone cares enough to go do that. Whether it's favorable or not, I would call it alive.<Turning your imageboard into the imageboard equivalent of twitter is "alive"I'd rather go back to having discussions with the schizos of 8/pol/ or the neets on /fascist/ then use 4/pol/. If just having pph is what is considered "alive", then you may as well call boomer Facebook groups "alive".
No.11533
>>11529answer my posts you glowing polyp bitch
No.11534
>>11531You're convinced spam threads form the consensus of ideas? Why?
>>11530I'm sorry for your reading ability.
>>11532Cemeteries are typically quiet.
No.11535
>>11534>I’m sorry for your reading abilityI’m sorry for your parents.
No.11536
>>11533I did. forgot the post number
>>11528 No.11537
>>11535You're not though. Why do you go on the internet just to tell lies
No.11538
>>11516killed the spirit of 4chan and shat up the site with underage newfags and boomers who repeat the same stupid shit
No.11539
>>11537I genuinely am, though. They’re probably trash, but they deserve better than you.
No.11540
>>11528>So /pol/ is rich, middle class, and poor at the same time? no rich and middle class
>Yes, the jews have shown me the light of the israeli lobby…(((they))) being various intelligence agencies, zionist outlets and other far right and media influences, I gave you an article,
>>11468comment on it. It contains proof your entire "movement" glows to high heaven, and it always has.
No.11541
>>11534>You're convinced spam threads form the consensus of ideas? Why?Beucase "spam" is practically the status quo.
>Cemeteries are typically quietI'd rather have an imageboard with a moderate pph in which discussion can happen without the thread hitting the limit after about an hour then one in which threads either fill up rapidly with low effort posts or get slid off entirely.
No.11542
>>209508
<you will never be with a woman.anarcha-feminismAnarcha-Feminism
No.11543
>>209644
You will never be a real man
No.11544
>>209628
Thanks, don't know why you felt the need to clarify though, are you not one?
No.11545
>>11538Yeah, killed the spirit makes more sense. I agree mostly, spirit is still there albeit heavily damaged. Lot of trash to sift through, but I would argue someone cares enough about its existence to post trash in the first place. That whole annoyance v wit thing in the OP.
>>11540>rich and middle classMy point was you can't honestly believe the general population there is from a particular class and not all of them.
>comment on itI can promise you I'll read it. I can not promise you I will read the 4 hours of reading material you guys just gave me before I have to go.
>movementThere is no movement.
>>11541>status quoFair, as I said, there's trash to sift through. Think about who would put trash there and why, coupled with the activity.
>I'd rather have an imageboard with a moderate pphAlso fair.
>>11539Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries
No.11546
This is literally all projection, you're a midvit masquerading as an intellectual. Lmao then you strawman everything with your completely brainwashed idiotic take.
Fact is these "fascists" are growing all over the western world, truth is these "fascists" are only suffering a temporary setback due to censorship. All over the western world left wing parties are dying. You've let your major parties become kidnapped by corrupt oligarchs, yet you're so thickheaded that all you can think about is Trump. You're losing Europe and libtards won in the USA, now they will continue fucking USA up even more, do even more unjust wars waste even more and it will all be associated with the left.
Hell the american left even failed with force the vote because most are corrupt globalist mouthpieces, he renegged on literally every single progressive promise, you're not getting healthcare, you're not getting a minimum wage, you're not getting student debt forgiveness. Biden is even building border walls.
You live in a fantasy land of delusions you concocted for yourself, truth is the social conservative right/third wave movements will continue to grow. They will do so because libtards are the real racists, because they are completely hypocritical and will continue to drive people into their arms. This will only escalate and censorship can only slow it down.
Hell even your delusional take on the kohlface meme displays your utter lack of originality and understanding of chan culture, it's literally a joke right wingers on kohlchan made themselves, it doesn't reflect reality, we all know the surveys which display right wingers have more sex, are less mentally ill and are more attractive, there is absolutely no reason not to assume the same is true of right wing contra left wing channers. Also make your own OC or atleast shoop out the "kohlface" from the meme, jesus christ does none of you know how to use even paint?
Also chopping your dick off and changing gender just not to stay a virgin is pretty sad tbh desu.
No.11547
>>11465Holy shit get a life tldr
No.11551
>>11548>ohh let me post one of few exceptions and what is one of the most isolated countries in the world.Ignore you know most of Europe, pretty much all other anglo countries except Canada(although right is growing there too) etc etc…
No.11553
>>11549You will never be white
No.11554
>>11546How’d your latest rally go? Has one even been successful since charlotttesville or has it just been flop after flop, with some Q boomers thrown in for comedy effect?
No.11555
>>11551by 2070 it will be the only habitable country in the world.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11556
>>11551>all Anglo countries You mean all those countries which are in terminal decline? Wonder if these things could be related…
No.11560
>>11467Why is Goldwater on there. He’s Jewish and the other books are like Holocaust denial shit.
No.11561
>>11560>48 laws of power>animal farm>1984>The Prince>The Communist Manifesto>How to win friends and influence people>holocaust denialwut
No.11562
>>11561I was exaggerating. It’s just a little uncanny to see someone recommend did 6 million really die and Goldwater. Also Rothbard too. If ur gonna be against Jews go all out don’t have ur favorite Jews.
No.11563
>>11551>all other anglo countries except Canada(although right is growing there too) The right is growing amongst the elderly and Anglo countries are getting increasingly old. That's literally it. Go check who elected Trump. Go check the UK elections. Pretty sure Corbyn won every working group in 2017, right up to the 65s and still lost, that's how utterly undead the UK is.
There is no hope for the right in these countries. OAP's aren't gonna storm the halls of government on their mobility scooters. The only thing it can accomplish is winning the ballot box, which achieves at best a preservation of the status quo. Deciding the window dressing of the slow economic, demographic and ecological decline of the west.
No.11564
>>209897
Are you sure that YOU aren't the retarded one instead?
No.11565
After reading the whole thread and having posted on 4chan the last 16 years of my life you people need to stop smelling your own farts, taking the internet seriously, getting turned into lolcows and get a fucking life and a job regardless of how you feel about the system that takes you off either taxpayer dime or your parents' cash.fedFed
No.11566
>>11565We have jobs and lives lurk more
No.11568
>>11566I refuse to believe anyone so up their ass like I've seen in this thread has adequate real life experience to come to the conclusion they're investment here is positive like shitposting or actually holds sway over the realities of others anymore than a troll does.
fedFed No.11569
>>209897
I'm around brown people all day and they're fine.
Maybe you're just the asshole.
No.11570
>>11567I haven't posted anything particularly hostile yet and I've racked up 9 Chinese soyjak memes. I might be rude but holy shit, you people exhume no fun allowed. I don't get the point of this place other than to suck eachother off and get raided every now and then from the looks of it.
fedFed No.11571
>>11525>but you're all rich kidsKek. My parents went bankrupt, after already being poor to begin with. My mom is in a wheelchair from her MS. I was a lefty until 2015. I wore a CCCP t shirt and voted for Trudeau. My favorite genre was hip hop and my parents were explicitly anti racist. It wasn't until he bailed on everything he promised that I found /pol/ and slowly shifted to the right.
Now? I made $24k last month, and I'm set to make even more this month. Whh? I embraced the tenants of fascism.
Arbeit. Macht. Frei.
Keep projecting though, all your shortcomings and failures are your own fault.
No.11572
>>209897
t. Amerimutt
No.11573
>>11571>Now? I made $24k last monthIt wont bring your mums legs back, cope.
No.11574
>>11571>I wore a CCCP t shirt and voted for Trudeauyou weren't a lefty, you were a delusional little shit. why the fuck didn't you vote NDP.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11575
>>11573Very persuasive, I definitely don't want to gas you now.
>>11574Because I didn't want harper to win re election. NDP is throwing your vote away.
No.11577
>>11571Si tu croyais que Macron était un gauchiste, l´idiote fut toi.
No.11578
>>11571>I wore a CCCP t shirt and voted for Trudeaulol, fucking lmfao
No.11580
>>11576'Member when you guys made a small handful of images and came to pol only to get btfo so hard by one aussie posting more fresh content than you had to raid with that this place shut down for a day?
People who have never even been on 4chan 'member.
fedFed No.11581
>>11575>NDP is throwing your vote away.you are the human embodiment why Canada will always be little America and the worst country of the old Commonwealth. when you were a liberal you were a stupid liberal, and when you were a rightoid you were the most american rightoid it is possible to be. shameful, shameful, shameful display.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11582
>>11579I don't speak frog
>>11577Booj? Failson? You'll have to speak in normal English this is my first time on bunkerchan. If you're implying the son of a low income family is bourgeoisie Im at a loss. I grew up in a rented duplex sharing a bedroom with two siblings. Now I own my own business and pay my staff $75/hour.
No.11583
>>11581Canada is a shit country because our population growth is explicitly driven by importing 3rd world street shitters to work at our tim Hortons because we don't want to pay white teenagers more than $10/hour
No.11585
>>11584So you do conflate the middle class with the rich elites just because they own a business?
fedFed No.11586
>>11546>western world >left wing parties Fucking where lol.
No.11587
>>11582What's your business? That pay rate is higher than a lot of junior software developers on the West Coast. Pardon me if i'm skeptical.
No.11588
>>11584Yeah, I started it from the ground up. I was never born into wealth. I saved money, I lost $25k, which was my life savings, the first time I started my own business and had to go back to my old job begging for a part time position. Now I net that much a month.
You can do it too, if you work hard enough.
No.11589
>>11587You don't honestly believe him do you?
No.11591
>>11580<'Member when you guys made a small handful of images and came to pol only to get btfo so hard by one aussie posting more fresh content than you had to raid with that this place shut down for a day?This isn't Bunkerchan
>>11582>claims to have been a commie before becoming fascist (read: went from radlib to racist lib)>doesn't even understand simple class termsUnsurprising.
No.11592
>>11589>>11587I run a commercial mortgage, insurance and corporate tax planing business. I have two part time employees who I pay $75hr because it means they get work done exceptionally well as I'm paying more than 2x what they would get anywhere else.
No.11593
>>11591But it is. You just pissed off the rest of the boards that aren't politics related to the point they had to distance themselves from you. I was here when people begged you fuckers not to draw attention to bunkerchan and began talking about getting rid of you.
fedFed No.11594
>>11585>the middle class with the rich elites just because they own a business>middle classAnon, petit-bourgeoisie are still bourgeoisie in regards to their economic relations, and are bourgeoisie proper in the making. "Middle class" (as defined by liberals like you) is a completely meaningless term that literally every person seems to think they are.
No.11595
>>11594Do you believe this is an argument or a strong hot take that turns to a hill to die on? Please explain why someone who came from nothing then obtained business ownership is the same as a trust fund kid.
fedFed No.11596
>>11592If you're going to play pretend you could at least pretend to not be a parasite
No.11597
>>11592>private sector bureaucrat is reactionaryYour politics make sense but still, no one will believe you without proof.
No.11598
>>11594So basically you have to work for someone else to not be a bourgeoisie? Is it explicitly a function of being an employee?
Literally anyone can start a business.
No.11599
>>11580Big porkies, piglets, both go “oink”, don’t they?
>>11595>What are property relations? No.11600
>>11598>your labor on behalf of another's business is bad and complicit>hiring willing laborers to work for you is bad and complicit0 sum game from what I can tell, just wants reality to change.
fedFed No.11601
>>11596I help people make more money and get taxed less and get financing for expanding their businesses.
>>11597Proof? What do you want? My website? My biz banking statements?
No.11602
>>11598So what book have you read
No.11603
>>11599Why can't you explain yourself in a basic straightforward manner? What might that gell me about you? So far it seems if you own a business that's a bad thing in one huge broad stroke that makes me want to have a stroke.
fedFed No.11604
>>11598I can start a business selling pictures of my asshole, that doesn’t mean I’m gonna be able to make a living off it or it won’t go under after five years or less.
No.11605
>>11601>My biz banking statements?yes.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11606
>>11598>Literally anyone can start a businessProvided they have the capital necessary. You can't just leave that out, idiot.
No.11607
>>11602Is it a meme around here to start throwing books at eachother until someone backs down instead of demonstrating you can explain your beliefs and reasoning in your own words and a convincing manner to other people?
fedFed No.11608
>>11605Sorry I'm not going to post something you can commit fraud in my name with
>>11606Yeah, and anyone can get capital. I lost my life savings trying to start my first business, went back to washing dishes.
No.11610
>>11609The homepage is still bunkerchan.xyz
>>11602Is it a meme around here to start throwing books at eachother until someone backs down instead of demonstrating you can explain your beliefs and reasoning in your own words and a convincing manner to other people?
>>11609>>11606fedFed No.11611
>>11580Nobody raided you fag. You guys literally just did it to yourselves by avenue of halfchan anons fishing for (you)'s, and then you decided to have a meltdown and spam cp and gore. And when that failed to get the response you wanted, you tried falseflagging as anons and screencapping the posts. Even when anons called you faggots out, you would still try and cope by leaving out any of the replies.
>>11593Stop being such a newfag. Bunkerchan split from .org months before the /pol/face meme was even a thing, and the split had nothing to do with the raid, but rather mod drama and Space_.
No.11612
>>11600Define “willing.” These things don’t just exist in the abstract.
No.11613
>>11610>The homepage is still bunkerchan.xyzIt literally isn't, read the url.
No.11614
>>11608i would not purchase insurance from a business which isn't sufficiently skilled at avoiding disaster to redact the doxable info from a bank statement.
(well, maybe i would if i was planning to do some kind of insurance fraud, but i'd have to plan it out first.)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11615
>>11602Im asking for clarification
>>11604Then it wouldn't be a very good business would it?
No.11616
>>11606I technically owned a business at 14 fixing computers. I get that's not the point you're trying to make but I think you are willfully ignorant to the argument you can come from nothing and become a business owner, as is typical with franchises and small-town businesses.
fedFed No.11617
>>11613But it is, anon. Type in bunkerchan.xyz then try to navigate back to this thread without touching the address bar again.
fedFed No.11618
>>11607So do you prefer books with pictures like comics or what
No.11619
>>11608Cool. Entertaining this fairy tale still, do you think that you’re typical of all people who start businesses? Or that it ain’t possible for your biz to go down in 5 years or so?
No.11620
>>11617>Website redirects, so it’s the same placeThe absolute state.
No.11623
me, a freedman: don't feel so bad about being a slave - i mean look at me, i worked hard and was affranchised! now i own 16 slaves of my own! when you grow up you'll see that the system was fine, you just needed to work harder.democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism
No.11624
>>11619A failing business seems like something a prospecting business owner would be well aware of. Do you feel smart?
fedFed No.11625
>>11616The typical business startup fails in the first 90 days.
No.11626
>>11622I guess I'm still here because I'm in denial the attitude behind those angry people that keep coming back to the place they hate are actually like this here.
fedFed No.11627
>>11598If you don't have employees but own your own business as a necessary legal fiction then you're more an artisan than bourgeois or petty bourgeois.
No.11628
>>11619I could also easily edit ANY bank statement to make it look like I was earning 100's of thousands of dollars a month. I could easily use a clients bank statement as well, and larp that I'm making millions. Either way I'm not going to do either from my phone
>>1161480% of businesses fail in a couple of years. The key is to keep working and not just give up because you failed.
Arbeit. Macht. Frei.
No.11629
>>11621You can always go for easy tweets with minimal effort on Twitter but I guess that doesn't make you feel special?
fedFed No.11630
>>11622What book have you read
No.11631
>>11628did you actually quote the posts in the wrong order
are you fucking high
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11634
>>11631This UI fucking blows and keeps kicking that to the top. Sucks for phone posting. I did it too but worse.
fedFed No.11636
>>11634>Sucks for phone posting.use the app
No.11637
>>11631Looks like I did, due to the poor functioning of this website. How come racist incels can make a better image board than the enlightened individuals who come here?
Not high though, I quit that to help me focus.
No.11640
>>11626Given the pervasive arrogance and condescending dismissal of an entire "class", it offers a surprising amount of insight on how boards like /pol/ coalesced in the first place.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11642
>>11634What book have you read
No.11643
>>11635I literally recognized that most businesses fail. My own business had failed, I had to go crying back to beg to wash dishes again to make rent. But once again, Arbeit Macht Frei.
No.11644
>>11622>a site that seeks to combat extremismFuck off newfag, that was d0llars's shilling, not us.
No.11645
>>11640Do you like books or are you more of a podcast kind of guy
No.11646
>>11636I'm just a tourist and I was interested a little but after browsing several threads it just seems like this place TRIES to be antipol and anti idpol but holy shit I don't think I've ever seen anything so far up its own ass and so devoid of humor and fun.
fedFed No.11647
>>11643>>11635Meant to quote both
No.11650
>>11622>combat extremism Do you think we exist to simp for you and not because there were people from /pol/ on 8chan or whenever who didn’t get tired of your shit?
No.11651
>>11630Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink, it's a worthwhile exploration on understanding the principles behind successful leadership strategies.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11652
>>11648>one name brings heat>still keep it as a functional homepage urlAre you responsible for this shit UI because you seem to be getting a little upset about stuff that seems like the technical side of the site.
fedFed No.11653
>>11646Do you prefer dc or marvel, or are you one of those fags reading Chinese picture books
No.11654
>>11649You're embracing defeatism. And you wonder why you are poor and discontent. Its sad really.
No.11656
>>11643>Arbeit Macht Freiexcept it literally doesn't. what you are advocating is not that Arbeit Macht Frei, but that das Kapital Macht Frei
(das Kapital the concept of money-capital, not the book.)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11658
>>11653>implying I readOnly to keep up on local building codes to keep doing what I love.
fedFed No.11661
>>11656Yet I had no capital. I was born poor. My parents owned no property or assets, and lived paycheck to paycheck, going bankrupt from not being able to pay the bills. How did I free myself from that?
>>11659Yes you've posted that 3 times now, does it make you feel better about not being successful?
No.11662
>>11617>>11641Lurk more you fag. Bunkerchan redirects here now because bunkerchan fucking died the day before that shitty article was published. Now we're stuck with the consequences of d0llars's shitty ploy at "rejuvenating" his site.
No.11663
>>11650After reviewing some of the content, I've honestly come to the conclusion that this site is a unironic lefty-pol: one that openly promotes Communistic ideals while serving as an echo chamber for members of the far left.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11669
>>11665>being proud of being functionally illiteratelmfao
No.11670
>>11664>get the app>for a site that has radical activist transhumanists in positions of powerNo thanks man. This place doesn't seem to promote conversations. If I post genuinely seeking one on pol I tend to get at least something but here I've gone through 10 tabs and no actual conversations have even taken off.
fedFed No.11671
>>11668I don't trust Hitler's interpretations of his opponents' societies nor do I trust a communist mass murderer.
fedFed No.11672
>>11667>I'm only poor because no one can do what you did and you only did what you did because you got lucky and this Wikipedia article proves it!I guarantee you I have worked more hours than you have.
No.11673
>>11663You should read more
No.11674
>>11661>Yet I had no capitalYou have-and-had/obtained capital, what you lack is an understanding of what "capital" means, or perhaps of chronology itself.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11677
>>11571I think people really underestimate this effect. I found alt right influence on my life to be overwhelmingly positive. I saved up money. I got out of my parents house. I started working out and eating healthier.
Had to drop the Jewish stuff just for sanity’s sake but I’m still glad I found the nazis on the internet. They made my life better.
No.11678
>>11670That's because /pol/ is willing to engage in an actual conversation based on the merits of your ideas. Nothing's truly taboo, and if you're searching for answers, you'll find a wealth to choose from.
It's been less than an hour and I've already witnessed more vitriol and scorn from leftypol than /pol/. While one may be an absolute clusterfuck of content, this is a typical hivemind that attacks anyone going against it's confirmation bias.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11679
>>11669>being proud of reading a small mountain of trash so you can say 'dude trust me my beliefs are superior just read this series of books on it and it'll start to make sense'. That to me is the glorified equivalent of 'dude just watch 7 hours of YouTube videos and then it'll all make sense'.Something I've noticed in particular so far is that despite a core part of showing you understand your beliefs is to be able to state them in a simple manner that a layman can understand. I've yet to see it.
fedFed No.11680
>>11673Steinbeck and Hemingway are personal favorites, but I'm open to suggestions.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11681
>>11672>When you read self-help books with a side of nazi, but credit the nazi for your successWhat are you, Mike Cernovich?
No.11682
>>11661>Yet I had no capital. I was born poor. My parents owned no property or assets, and lived paycheck to paycheck, going bankrupt from not being able to pay the bills. How did I free myself from that?And? Our analysis of what defines a capitalist isn't an emotional one, you just are or aren't. If a person who is capitalist wants to turn class traitor, thats all fine and great, but that doesn't negate the overall analysis made about capitalism itself.
>>11665>implying keeping an open mind and taking the stance of allowing the most liberties and freedoms we can without infringing upon others' abilities to succeed within the system society decided on isn't basedThis isn't any capitalist society I've ever heard of, or really how most societies operate in from a practical political perspective.
No.11683
>>11676I figure since I'm mildly in favor of society as it stands I'd be getting called whatever the bunkerchan equivalent of glown*gger is.
fedFed No.11684
>>11679>being proud of being functionally illiteratelmbo
No.11686
>>11679>Something I've noticed in particular so far is that despite a core part of showing you understand your beliefs is to be able to state them in a simple manner that a layman can understand. I've yet to see it.You. Are. Not. Smartest. Person. Ever.
You. Need. To. Consult. Past. Work. On. Idea.
Other. Smart. People. Exist. And. Have. Existed.
Read. Book. Faggot.
No.11687
>>11646Yeah man, sorry we have too many words here and don't spam wojaks all the time and yell uyghur transhumanist faggot
>>11679>Something I've noticed in particular so far is that despite a core part of showing you understand your beliefs is to be able to state them in a simple manner that a layman can understand. I've yet to see it.My belief is that you should acquaint your head with the pavement and stop wasting air, illiterate cuck.
No.11688
>>11680>steinbeck>while being this much of a class cucklol better and better
No.11689
>>11682>we define capitalists Objectively>yes we disagree with them>no, that does not mean we are anything less than objective>our feelings have no influence on how we communicate or the paradigms we define things by>that's why to begin an argument we often have to establish definitionsAt least in my experiences it seems to go this way.
fedFed No.11690
>>11679What will we gain from discussing it with you? What can we possibly say that we wouldn’t have heard before? And what could we possibly say that you'd understand?
No.11691
>>11687But anon Ive seen more wojaks posted directly at me in this last half hour under the pretext I'm a boogieman than I've seen all month.
fedFed No.11694
>>11690So you don't really care about convincing other people who don't agree with you or are just curious about what you believe when you can lord superiority over them and not actually say anything to substantiate your stance while still somehow managing to flex?
fedFed No.11696
>>11693>"explain your beliefs please?">They don't>They get mad insteadDo you ever talk about these things in real life or just keep it all on text?
fedFed No.11698
>>11694there are people who don't agree who can ask intelligent questions and are worth discussing the matter with even if you're never going to convince them of your stance. you are not one of those people.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11699
>>11688I don't really understand the class warfare narrative, it comes off as a misguided attempt to cause division among the low/middle/upper middle American demographics, while accomplishing nothing to further anyone's personal wealth or prosperity.
To hell with class warfare, everyone should recognize that they're responsible for their own livelihoods and not beholden to whatever bracket of wealth they were born into.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11700
>>11639I understand this and I still fail to understand what makes it inherently exploitive when the alternative is having no income or expecting it to be a given.
fedFed No.11701
Can someone just reply BBC to the /pol/ fags? I'm about to get groceries so I cantkampucheaKampuchea
No.11702
>>11698I have seen no such conversation between opposing opinions in the first two pages of the board so far.
fedFed No.11703
>>11699Pretty much how I feel. I think people are just angry and when you're on a splinter of a splinter that evolved out of drama there's potential for some big anger.
fedFed No.11704
>>11694We've had literal 500+ debate threads, we even have a thread in the catalog which got up to around 300 post in the last week. It goes nowhere, eventually you end up with either the /pol/yp spamming or anons talking in circles because of a fundamental disagreement on the legitimacy of one crucial component.
No.11706
>>11674So I got capital. How did I do it? I worked hard and saved money. Anyone can do that.
>>11677100%, except the jew part. I deal with jews all day long and they are the most ruthless, scummy and unkind people on the planet. 2nd to only the Chinese.
>>11681Never read any self help books
>>11682Im not a capitalist. I'm a fascist. The only reason I am even in the business that I am in is because it is profitable and I need capital to be able to raise many happy, healthy children and help them overcome this disgusting capitalist, socialist world. The jew world order will erode one day, but if I live in it I am doomed to participate. I would rather emancipate myself than emaciate myself.
No matter which age you live in, hard work will improve your life's circumstances.
No.11707
>>11704Shit sucks but this seems to be what's here on threads in general not just debate ones. It reminds me of high-school debates where people just get hung up on one thing then self destruct and all productivity that could have been gained or a position leveraged just turns into "my shit smells much better than yours and my cock is bigger".
fedFed No.11709
>>11706>Im not a capitalist. I'm a fascist.This leads me to believe you like Evola, no?
No.11710
>>11706>How did I do it? The less you eat, drink and read books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorize, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save-the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor dust will devour-your capital. The less you are, the more you have; the less you express your own life, the greater is your alienated life-the greater is the store of your estranged being
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11711
>>11699>I don't really understand the class warfare narrative, it comes off as a misguided attempt to cause division among the low/middle/upper middle American demographics, while accomplishing nothing to further anyone's personal wealth or prosperity.>To hell with class warfare, everyone should recognize that they're responsible for their own livelihoods and not beholden to whatever bracket of wealth they were born into.You retard, were not talking about your arbitrary liberal definitions of "class" here, we are talking about class as defined by ones relation to production and the mechanisms of capitalism as a whole.
No.11712
>>11708wait they were saying retarded? I thought they were saying "Lets get it started in here"
kampucheaKampuchea No.11713
>>11699How can you read "Grapes of Wrath" and not understand class warfare?
No.11714
>>11711Alright so we're still taking about class just in such a way we can throw shade at the upper middle class just like they're a top 1%'er?
fedFed No.11715
>>11712I think it was an alternate version of the song. "let's get it started" might have been censorship to make the song more appealing. Or maybe the "retarded" version was meant for one of those 2000s parody movies.
punkPunk No.11716
>>11706>Im not a capitalist. I'm a fascist. The only reason I am even in the business that I am in is because it is profitable and I need capital to be able to raise many happy, healthy children and help them overcome this disgusting capitalist, socialist world. The jew world order will erode one day, but if I live in it I am doomed to participate. I would rather emancipate myself than emaciate myself.Anon, you are a capitalist. Being a "fascist" doesn't make you not a capitalist, if anything it just makes you more so. Your system and this system is system doomed to crisis, whatever way you slice it.
>No matter which age you live in, hard work will improve your life's circumstancesWhere did I state I was against hard work? Hard work is fine, and people should be made to work as workers. Including you.
No.11717
>>11677>I started working out and eating healthier. Worth noting that I yell at the young ones here about this etc and was yelling the same thing at the young ones back before the ancient board split between /leftypol/ and /pol/
fwiw I was always communist lefty/pol/ never a Nazi
Also now that you've gotten the basics covered have a read through Stalin's shortcourse
https://archive.org/details/historycpsushortcourseBoth comrade Xi and Mao studied it diligently and they became the most powerful men on earth
No.11718
>>11715>cult of personality >also obsessed with bbcFuckin' cumbrains.
fedFed No.11719
>>11709Never read any, to be frank. The lightning and the Sun is probably the most liberating book I've read.
>>11710You don't have to abstain from enjoyment to be successful. Right now I'm about to head for a walk down the beach followed by beers and Gelato with my wife and our dog. Every morning I work out and once a week or so I even play some vidya.
No.11720
>>11715It is originally "retarded", meaning fucked up, and the radio version is "get it started"
No.11721
>>11706> No matter which age you live in, hard work will improve your life's circumstances.lol
> The only reason I am even in the business that I am in is because it is profitable and I need capitaWhat business are you in, and while a pedantic point money != capital stop using the two interchangeably it makes you look stupid.
accelerationAcceleration No.11722
>>11714>Alright so we're still taking about class just in such a way we can throw shade at the upper middle class just like they're a top 1%'er?No, we are talking about class in a way not defined arbitrarily by the number in a person's account, but by a person's relation to production and the mechanisms of capitalism.
No.11724
>>11708One's relation to production for society has absolutely nothing to do with class, unless you're discussing Communism and not Capitalism.
>>11714That seems to be the case based on this post's lengthy preamble. Disparaging the upper middle class comes off as an envious and fruitless endeavor; every American has the ability to achieve an "upper middle class" income within their lifetimes, but holding them in contempt for the success accomplishes nothing.
The majority of Americans are already within the global 1% of earners, it's something to be humbled by rather than resentful towards. There's nothing wrong with highlighting class inequities, unless you're end-state is to eradicate the system entirely.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11725
>>11721>No matter which age you live in, hard work will improve your life's circumstances.>lolHow can you even argue this? Every commie i know shows up to a 9-5 job, barely works, and comes home to a messy house to order skip the dishes. They are communists because they are fundamentally lazy under achievers.
As mentioned earlier my business is commercial lending, insurance and corporate tax planning.
No.11726
>>11724>One's relation to production for society has absolutely nothing to do with class, unless you're discussing Communism and not Capitalism.Did you know marx footnotes the shit out of Adam Smith? He was talking about capitalism, buddy.
No.11727
>>11724>>11718think you two meant to reply to someone else
punkPunk No.11728
>>11722Now imagine you hold different beliefs and someone just said the last 3 things you've said to us, to you. Does it sound like now the business owner you actually have the means to become if you're dirt poor and have nothing when you were raised up has been conflated with the elites that usually fuck things up through lobbying and abusing how detached a CEO like Bezos is from his workers as compared to a franchise owner or small business owner?
fedFed No.11729
>>11727You're right, my mistake.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11730
>>11694I can’r speak for anyone else, but I’m not.
Empirically speaking, “debates” do not change opinions. At least not of the people debating. There’s better praxis that people can do, although talking about praxis on an imageboard is laughable.
And besides that, who the fuck do you think you are? The resources are available if you want to educate yourself and not just shitpost. Just crack open “Capital.”
No.11731
>>11728Can you repeat this but in english?
No.11732
>>11717I’ll check it out. Also the alt right got me reading books.
What do you think of the national social Democrats from Vietnam? They seem like a really good political party but I’m just not that familiar with what they actually believe.
No.11733
>>11725> Every commie i knowHow do you know they’re commies, anon?
Have you heard of the phrase “my boss makes a dollar…”
No.11734
>>11725Your anecdotes are worthless anon, and we have to first define what you mean by commie since it's clear you have low verbal iq and struggle with proper definitions.
Also it's ironic you are spending your sunday shitposting on a board that doesn't want you here while complaining about lazy workers.
accelerationAcceleration No.11735
>>11733Because they are loud about it. I'm talking about explicit communists who share Stalin memes on Facebook and unironically yell at people to read marx. Not every under achiever is a communist.
No.11736
>>11730I disagree with this take for the very reason it dismisses criticism and ends on a footnote of 'read a book uygha' which is about as spineless as it comes. I believe people who arent truly at their core disagreeable and ignorant remain open to the arguments and positions presented before them then evolve around it even if the arguments and positions are contributed in an environment where the goal is to win, such as a court.
>>11731Imagine you don't have the definition of class you hold in your head right now.
Imagine your only sense of relativity has come from the reality around you.
Imagine now you hear because of the mechanisms of capitalism and production, the gas station owner down the street is just as detached and exploiting of his employees as Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc.
Does it seem like you have been presented a convincing argument or one that amounts to "How dare you seek to elevate yourself"?
fedFed No.11737
>>11725Every fascist I know doesn't have a job and lies online about how they make bank trading shitcoins.
No.11738
>>11730Debates can easily sway opinions if you can provide enough evidence to leave an audience doubting their own beliefs.
Hardcore leftists have changed my perspective on wealth in America through debates. Originally I was a strong proponent of Rand and Objectivism, through compelling argument they proved many of the top 1% manipulate legislation to entrap citizens into a down-spiral of cyclical debt, while enriching themselves through fraudulent methods. Wall Street stands as grand testament to regulatory corruption.
I'm willing to listen to the merits of anyone's argument, as long as they abstain from absolutism and extremism. Unfortunately /pol/ is one of the rare outlets in which politically incorrect ideas can flourish as they would normally be vehemently censored on virtually any other platform.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11739
>>11734>it's clear you have low verbal iq When I'm examining literal communists who espouse communism and marx, its not semantic.
No.11740
>>11737Explain police and your landlord.
fedFed No.11741
>>11740>Doesn’t have a jobDid we stutter?
No.11742
>>11740Fucking lol'd
>>11737Most people don't open espouse fascism because its not socially permitted. You can put a commie flag on your jewbook profile picture and not get banned
No.11743
>>11739So you don't actually know these commies you mentioned, and this is just a larp.
accelerationAcceleration No.11745
>>11740My landlord is a Biden voter. Good point with the cops, but I don't know any.
No.11748
>>11743The specific people I am thinking of are ex co workers who I have on my jewbook, but generally any commie I meet is similar.
No.11749
>>11746And finches too.
fedFed No.11750
>>11738>as long as they abstain from absolutism and extremismt. Liberal who thinks his position is something thats neutral, objective and not something thats inculcated into him since birth by a society meant to reflect the values of the individuals that control it.
No.11751
>>11737Any fascist you've met exclusively online is more than likely a Larp.
I've known 2 self-professed "fascists" in person. They were both health nuts, that held an inflexible contempt for obesity.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11752
>>11751Yeah makes sense. You're a self described fascist I've only met online also larping as a business owner. Only true thing you've posted so far.
No.11753
>debates don't change people's minds
This just means you're shit at debating son I recommend Aristotle's Rhetoric, some Nargarjuna, some Mo (his turn of phrase "It's not that I don't like the sound of the drums" is a mmasterful rhetorical move) and to listen to an audio reading of the first chapter of Marx's Capital to improve your skills in this areastalinStalin
No.11754
>>11752You're thinking of me, for some reason your shitty politics board doesn't have IDs.
No.11755
>>11750Definitely not neutral. Objective within reason. To believe anyone is a collection of societal values is as fatally flawed as Skinner's tabula rasa perspective.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11756
>>11746the based department was overmanned that day
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11757
>he likes ids
No.11758
>>11753I’m reading through capital. The idea of comparing value to the concept of the weight of a sugarloaf was honestly mind blowing for me.
No.11759
>>11753If you think a book written by a man whos never worked in his life and was funded by a rich factory owner is convincing, you are a very highly suggestible person
No.11760
>>11755Sure you’re not, anon, sure you’re not.
No.11761
It sounds like it's pretty reductionist but I'm beginning to see a theme tied to it.fedFed
No.11763
>>11759Don't tell him you know your history. He'll start reflecting and stop posting soon as the sense of false superiority gets crushed.
fedFed No.11764
>>11759He was a journalist and labor organizer but I know you will retroactively decide that's not work, so instead just read a book or Kys.
No.11765
>>11763Get a room, you two
No.11766
>>11724>One's relation to production for society has absolutely nothing to do with class, unless you're discussing Communism and not Capitalism.Where the fuck do you think you are? Yes, we are advocating for communism.
>That seems to be the case based on this post's lengthy preamble. Disparaging the upper middle class comes off as an envious and fruitless endeavor; every American has the ability to achieve an "upper middle class" income within their lifetimes, but holding them in contempt for the success accomplishes nothing. >The majority of Americans are already within the global 1% of earners, it's something to be humbled by rather than resentful towards. There's nothing wrong with highlighting class inequities, unless you're end-state is to eradicate the system entirely.This isn't about income or envy you pseud, its about relations to production. An engineer who makes $100,000 a year is still very much a prole.
No.11767
>>11762>ran a newspaperThat he got funded by his rich friends that he defrauded lol
>organized labour unionSo a jew being jewy and not working but finding a way for others to pay for him to sit around and do nothing
No.11768
>>11764Thanks for filling me in that he was self-employed, anon. Sounds like he has a very honest and unbiased take on agreeing to offer a service and your time in exchange for something through a mutual agreement.
fedFed No.11769
every single person in this thread is being way too abrasive, maybe the americans should go to sleep
No.11771
>>11766>lefty memes>textwalls you're expected to take at face value>probably just an excerpt from a book or WikipediaJesus christ its real…
fedFed No.11772
>>11768I missed that note, anon actually said marx worked but only by implying he was a petite bourgeoisie.
Like pottery
No.11773
>>11771>expected to take at face valueWhy is reading too much to ask on a politics forum?
No.11774
>>11732>What do you think of the national social Democrats from Vietnam? They seem like a really good political party but I’m just not that familiar with what they actually believe.No idea first time I've ever heard of then there's a south east asia general where you can ask the locals if you want a definitive response
No.11776
>>11772Shit I didn't care enough about the discrepancy to realize it but you're right. Good fucking god.
fedFed No.11777
>>11768You don’t have to take Marx’s word for the things he’s written. They’re literally grounded in classical economics and anthropology to an extent as well.
Marx and Engels weren’t just political theorists, they were pioneers of the field of Social Science.
No.11778
>>11766>Where the fuck do you think you are? Yes, we are advocating for communism.First time here, I try to abstain from calling every lefty a Communist off the bat.
>An engineer who makes $100,000 a year is still very much a prole.An industrial wage earners who, possessing neither capital nor production means, earns their living by selling their labor to achieve a satisfactory income to achieve prosperity for their family is the fundamental core of the American Dream.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11779
>>11773Because trickery is required to promote it
fedFed No.11780
>>11768He was keenly aware that his field was contingent on the rest of society, and cared about the vast majority who labored under employment in worse circumstances. The same can't be said for the asspained burgers in this thread who can't read.
>>11772Are all journalists self employed? Also being self employed doesn't mean petit bourgeois, it's an artisan in Marxist terminology.
No.11781
>>11777No they weren't. They have no bearing on sociology nor social psychology.
No.11782
>>11777It seems grounded in ideology and repeatedly fails due to no fault of its own when put to the test.
fedFed No.11783
>>11728>Now imagine you hold different beliefs and someone just said the last 3 things you've said to us, to you. Does it sound like now the business owner you actually have the means to become if you're dirt poor and have nothing when you were raised up has been conflated with the elites that usually fuck things up through lobbying and abusing how detached a CEO like Bezos is from his workers as compared to a franchise owner or small business owner?That's an emotional argument, not an argument based on analyzing the system in its totality. How did CEO's like Bezos even become a possibility? In what way does ownership of production relate to the value created by the worker? You are making points based on trying to make me fell "bad" or "good" regarding a circumstance, but that doesn't change the economic relations themselves and how the workers labour power is exploited to create surplus value for the capitalist.
No.11784
>>11779>reading is kike trickery I wish this was the first time a nazi has made this argument, but it's not
No.11785
>>11784It's almost as bad as being told you're subconsciously biased against certain ethnicity due to "Institutional / Systemic Racism"
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11786
>>11783Are you claiming your arguments are entirely detached from emotion? I think you don't live by your principles or don't care about having effective messaging because it took you all that time to ultimately simply not just agree to disagree but do a mental flip on why everything is perfectly conductive and the argument is in fact strong, I'm just being emotional and so is anyone else who doesn't see eye to eye with your argument.
fedFed No.11787
>>11785Is this supposed to be a gothca?
No.11788
>>11780>Are all journalists self employed? Also being self employed doesn't mean petit bourgeois, it's an artisan in Marxist terminology.Either way he stated his newspaper by literally defrauding his friends. He actively spent his life pursuing NOT working. He was a parasite, like all jews are.
No.11789
>>11787More of an agreement that decrying knowledge as a meaningless pursuit is typically espoused by the worst ideological zealots.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11791
>>11736>Does it seem like you have been presented a convincing argument or one that amounts to "How dare you seek to elevate yourself"?Is his argument true or false? Whether its convincing or makes me feels distressed doesn't matter. Is what he is stating true? How is critiquing the system itself a statement condemning people to destitution? If anything, communists are asking people to elevate themselves, but in a consequential way.
No.11792
>>11789And where did you get the idea that anyone itt fits your strawman?
No.11794
>>11780I really don't want to be that guy posting "cope" so I will instead say I think we disagree on a fundamental level that will leave us in one of those debate thread cycles until one of us gets it through our head we just have very very different principles and beliefs from them.
fedFed No.11795
>>11788How do you defraud someone who agrees with you and voluntarily contributes to your work?
No.11796
>>11791You fail to understand that you redefine class in a way nobody cares about because it has no bearing on their reality then state it in such a way you have identified 'little people' and angry ants as being your enemy because they are driven to participate in society as it stands.
fedFed No.11797
>>11759>>11763>>11767>Ad homs Not a single argument against the theory itself it seems.
No.11798
>>11790>sociologists have not always agreed about its relevanceok. Thanks for letting me know.
No.11799
>>11771>probably just an excerpt from a book or WikipediaNo, its just typed. Can you not read?
No.11800
>>11763O hai explain to me why the USA education system is so garbage?
>>11717 ←- also me
To give you a sense of the calibre of the response I'm expecting since it's my day off work and you amuse me
stalinStalin No.11801
>>11778>An industrial wage earners who, possessing neither capital nor production means, earns their living by selling their labor to achieve a satisfactory income to achieve prosperity for their family is the fundamental core of the American Dream.How is this an argument? Why should I care for the "American" dream?
No.11802
>>11797>say something that comes across as fundamentally retarded from being so far detached from reality and into your personal beliefs doesn't seem reasonable>Explain why but without coming off as a fartsniffer>"heh all adhoms I see"I think I see a theme and it's very disappointing.
fedFed No.11804
>>11793Honestly, you're right. There's no point wasting time on a dead board debating fucking Communism.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.11805
>>11804Sick burn now leave the board
accelerationAcceleration No.11806
>>11797My theory is work sets you free. Your theory is gibs me dat fo free.
It doesn't take an intellectual to figure out who will have the more successful life
No.11807
>>11800There are lots of reasons, but it started out as a way to standardize people, and teach them how to function in factories, since that was where everyone worked. It was a factory to produce factory workers. Not applicable to today. Then there's desegregation and common core, modern problems of which is a whole other story
No.11808
>>11800I think it's garbage because it teaches memorization and jumping through hoops rather than critical thinking, so you wind up with academics that create their own definitions then to actually argue with the broader community at large has to scream about their own meaning of words and beliefs to even get past setting the stage to make an argument.
fedFed No.11809
>hmm, today I am 16 and I want to debate the validity of marxism
No.11810
>>11806"He who does not work will not eat"
>t. some guy tankieTankie No.11811
>>11786>Are you claiming your arguments are entirely detached from emotion? I think you don't live by your principles or don't care about having effective messaging because it took you all that time to ultimately simply not just agree to disagree but do a mental flip on why everything is perfectly conductive and the argument is in fact strong, I'm just being emotional and so is anyone else who doesn't see eye to eye with your argument.Well, you haven't provided any actual concrete argument against Marx in this thread, you've just given hypotheticals like "Oh, but what would you think if you weren't a Marxist?" or "X person lived this life, is it really right to say he's Y?". So yeah, your arguments are emotional.
No.11813
>>11806>My theory is work sets you free. Your theory is gibs me dat fo free.One has to work to build fully automated luxury space communism before we get star trek level free shit for all lad
stalinStalin No.11814
>>11810>When all you aspire for in communism to be able to eat but you starve to death anywayLol whoops.
No.11815
>>11796>You fail to understand that you redefine class in a way nobody cares about because it has no bearing on their reality then state it in such a way you have identified 'little people' and angry ants as being your enemy because they are driven to participate in society as it stands.How does it have no bearing in regards to reality? Its an objective economic relation.
No.11817
>>11811Gee maybe it's because I'm arguing with you and your fundamental ideas that you've deriven from the writing of someone else and now biblethump. I wonder why you don't engage in a manner that even attempts to come across as genuine.
fedFed No.11818
>>11810Paul the apostle. Also John Smith.
No.11819
>>11815I don't think you know what objective is and if you do I think you're so far up your own beliefs with zero regard or consideration to anything contradictory to such an extent how you convey yourself no longer registers in your donkeybrains.
fedFed No.11820
>>11509>>11508What kind of fascist reads Stephen Jay Gould?
No.11821
>>11820The one who wants to debunk it I'm guessing.
No.11823
>>11507>>11508>>11509there’s even Thomas Paine. No way a leftist didn’t make this chart
No.11824
>>11806>My theory is work sets you free.do you ever reflect on the fact that you're using a slogan most commonly associated with concentration camps, which had no intention of letting the people within them go free?
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11825
>>11818And Lenin
tankieTankie No.11826
>>11816Its the most fundamental principal of fascism. The harder you work, the more prosperous you are. The more people that work harder, the more prosperous we all are.
It's the polar opposite of communism which is to make everyone equal. You can only make people equal by bringing everyone down to a common denominator. You can't make everyone run a 9 second 100m. But you can make everyone roll across in a wheelchair.
No.11827
>>11802>say something that comes across as fundamentally retarded from being so far detached from reality and into your personal beliefs doesn't seem reasonable>Explain why but without coming off as a fartsnifferYou didn't do this though, you just agreed with another anon that Marx was a certain way, and thus he's not to be taken seriously. Which would be a laughable assertion for a whole slew of philosophers and economists. Make an actual argument.
No.11828
>>11822>never came to understand what they really mean by DA JOOSLol I'm saving this one
fedFed No.11829
>>11806>Your theory is gibs me dat fo free.Who said this?
No.11830
>>11817>engage with the "arguments" that have been explained hundreds of times already>DEBATE MERead a fucking book already, your anti-intellectualism is legitimately disturbing.
No.11831
>>11826Everyone should dig ditches with spoons, they'll be more prosperous because it's harder to dig a ditch with a spoon than machinery. Working hard == gooder.
No.11832
>>11827Correct. I believe someone with a history of self-employment and writing propagandist pieces is a very poor person to form your modern opinion of the workforce around regardless of which name you'd like to bring to the table that can be accurately described in such a way. Reminder I don't read but Bakunin would be ashamed.
fedFed No.11833
>>11826>Communism is about making people equal Somebody hasn’t read critique of the gotha program.
No.11834
>>11831According to capitalism, the lazier workers are worth more, because they exert less labor.
Therefore, they make the same as someone who works hard.
Clearly, capitalism will set us free.
tankieTankie No.11835
>>11830>people who can't state their beliefs in a simple concise manner are intellectuals>those who are pulling teeth to get someone to do that then engaging are anti-intellectualThis is your brain on social bubble communism.
fedFed No.11836
>>11831Since when does hard work = inefficient work?
No.11837
>>11832your name drop makes no sense. bakunin was a fucking aristocrat.
> Reminder I don't read yea we figured
accelerationAcceleration No.11838
>>11826>Its the most fundamental principal of fascism. The harder you work, the more prosperous you are. The more people that work harder, the more prosperous we all are.But that's not how any fascist economy worked at all. In fact, most fascist economies had wages for workers reduce overall while major business were provided state subsidy.
>It's the polar opposite of communism which is to make everyone equal. You can only make people equal by bringing everyone down to a common denominator. You can't make everyone run a 9 second 100m. But you can make everyone roll across in a wheelchair.Communism isn't about making people equal, and Marx decries the concept of egalitarianism inn Critique of the Gotha Program, as well as Engels in his letters. Can you even name me a single socialist state which mandated people be made "equal" in all things?
No.11840
>>11837>Bakunin would be ashamedIt's almost as if stroking some sad sadists' egos brought them out of the woodwork with the whole not reading thing.
fedFed No.11841
>>11832>If I attack the author it’ll destroy their ideas without me having to understand what those ideas wereMarx didn’t pull his critique of capital out of the air. It’s based fundamentally upon assessing the classical economics of Ricardo and Smith, with a little bit of Aristotle as well. As for the dialectical method that he used, it was an inversion of the one made by Hegel.
No.11842
>>11837Do you believe your interpretation to be objective and free of emotion too?
fedFed No.11843
>>11832>Correct. I believe someone with a history of self-employment and writing propagandist pieces is a very poor person to form your modern opinion of the workforce around regardless of which name you'd like to bring to the table that can be accurately described in such a way. Reminder I don't read but Bakunin would be ashamed.But you didn't actually argue against the economic analysis itself, you just character attacked Marx (not even accurately I might add). A large number of economists at the time survived on other forms of income besides employment like inheritance, its not an argument.
No.11844
>>11838"Most fascist economies"
But Hitler Germany was the most prosperous nation i the world that took the entire British empire, Soviet empire and American empire to stop it. If wages dropped by dollar values tripled what does that imply about standards of living? Virtually everyone in nazi Germany OWNED a home
No.11845
>>11839tankie flag delivers the good webms as usual
accelerationAcceleration No.11846
>>11844>Nazis conveniently forgetting about all their allies and thinking that the Reich went at it alone. Can I see some citations for your statistics?
No.11848
>>11841I disagree with his interpretation of how a system that he personally felt exploited by is inherently and in an organized, widespread, oppressive manner exploiting all within the system short of those with capital. I believe capitalism is a strong enough system and meritocracy that you have the opportunity to leave behind more in life than you began with and offer a better run to your progenies.
Still not quite sure what you believe beyond work bad, employers bad, trust government to allocate it right because 'the workers' are going to have an elected body that is less equal than the rest as every instance of it in practice demonstrates. It also seems like Communism is weak and vulnerable to outside subversion since it often falls to no fault of its own.
Regardless though, you convey yourself in a manner that alienates the average Joe and worker that wants to keep their head down and lead a good life. It's like you kneecap yourself before the race.
fedFed No.11849
>>118441. wages stagnated under the Nazis
2. Germany has never been a nation with high home ownership rates.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11850
>>11835>"heh you must be able to explain difficult concepts in five words for my simple mind to understand, while I constantly barrage you with generic anti-communist arguments that have been answered already elsewhere, which I would find out if I bothered to read a book."Eat tidepods.
No.11851
>>11844Wake up retard, Germany was in decline since 1933. They were rationing food since 1938. British and french were already limiting both grain and machinery exports, and Germany was HUNGRY. They took over France, and french agrarian production collapsed to 20% of pre-war production, because Britain stopped supplying machinery. The only time nazis lifted rationing was after 1942 harvests they stole from Ukraine.
No.11852
>>11841Now when someone else gives their opinion and starts namedropping seemingly to pull an academic flex what makes them less convincing than you other than you believing they not only believe the wrong thing but fundamentally misunderstand things your preferred authors have defined?
fedFed No.11854
>>11844>But Hitler Germany was the most prosperous nation i the world Lol no. Literally had to stave off starvation by requesting grain imports from the Soviets.
>that took the entire British empire, Soviet empire and American empire to stop it. With the entirety of the Axis on its side, which allowed it to outnumber the Soviets in the vast majority of battles during the offensive into the USSR. Declaring war on the USSR while in the middle of war against Britain and France isn't exactly a badge of honor either anon.
>Virtually everyone in nazi Germany OWNED a homeSo did everyone in the USSR after industrialization and reconstruction you fag.
No.11855
Is online fash still a thing? The MAGA magic is gone. We're in covid world now, and the fash aren't going to stop what is essentially a fascist lockdown, because fascists always suck up to power.
No.11856
>>11850Anon, it's basic knowledge a sign of intelligence and grasping concepts is the ability to state their beliefs in a concise and easy to understand manner. I'm beginning to really lean into the farthuffing being prevalent around here from seeing many conversations on this board thrown into a brick wall seemingly deliberately introduced to try to shut down conversation.
fedFed No.11857
>>11848>meritocracy this term was coined by a man who believed it was a bad thing that would lead to a society (much like the one we live in, funnily enough) lead by a gang of self-appointed meritocrats who would define "merit" in line with their own narrow educational preferences and who would be insatiably greedy and selfish, since they were told that they owed their position not to their father or to luck, but to their own overabundance of merit. (and as an equal and opposite opposing force, the suffering of those at the bottom is also justifiable. they are, after all, by definition people with no merit!)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11858
>wants to """"debate"""" communism
>hostile
>doesnt even know essential history
>doesnt even know essential philosophical figures or movements tankieTankie
No.11859
>>11857While that is true, to the layman and average person who isn't politically invested what does that matter when to them you're saying you shouldn't earn from the merit of your actions and effort while also arguing in favor of communism? What have you done to yourself through how you conveyed yourself?
fedFed No.11861
>>11848We’re not an org. If you wanna know how communists do praxis, it’s by going outside and actually organizing action.
No.11862
>>11860>pragmatism is when you sperg out for 200 posts and refusing to read long blocks of text You killed 4chan.
tankieTankie No.11863
>>11860There's nothing more ideological than the
'common sense' of the masses. At least smart fascists read Nietzsche.
accelerationAcceleration No.11864
>>11856We’re not interested in wasting energy with a debatefag who won’t even bother to do a cliffnotes reading on the opposition.
No.11865
>>11859Not the person you're responding to but this specter or abstraction of "the average person" is a ridiculous mirage. Either argue for something or not, don't pretend play like your the arbiter of what a normie is.
If you want to argue the present system is meritorious, or that a different system that is actually meritorious is desirable, argue as such. You are here, so you are not "average" and we don't expect "average" people to show up and autistically argue in this thread for hours.
No.11866
>>11848>I disagree with his interpretation of how a system that he personally felt exploited by is inherently and in an organized, widespread, oppressive manner exploiting all within the system short of those with capital.But it does, purely by the numbers.
>Still not quite sure what you believe beyond work bad, employers bad, trust government to allocate it right because 'the workers' are going to have an elected body that is less equal than the rest as every instance of it in practice demonstrates.Who said work bad? You keep making this assertion. And why have employers when you can just have computer based central planning? And again, socialism isn't about equality, I don't understand where you get this idea. Its not about everyone being the same in "hierarchy".
>It also seems like Communism is weak and vulnerable to outside subversion since it often falls to no fault of its own.Revolutionary governments were fine when they were as voracious and aggressive as their opposition, and only faltered when they came to believe that there was time to wait.
No.11867
>>11859>you're saying you shouldn't earn from the merit of your actions and effort1. Look at China and the amount of private businesses they have, heck, they even allowed billionaires. How's that "shouldn't earn from the merit of your actions"?
2. Capitalists are parasites, landlords are parasites, stock market players are parasites. Go to average Joe and ask him what he thinks of those people, try to persuade him that capitalist or landlord work as hard as Joe does and get laughed right in your face
No.11868
>>11861Where do I get my bricks at the local BLM protest so we can stick it to the man while blacks take the flak?
>>11862No, I post like this here because I thought I would get discussion unlike 4chan where you piss into the sea of piss and have a giggle.
>>11863Notice how I did not mention it but you did. Beyond that, I don't think common sense is an argument to make when I can instead ask you what practical purpose your ideology presents to people who seek to live by their own merits and stick to their own lane? Why might that tie into the system remaining vastly ideological rather than practiced?
fedFed No.11869
>>11571> I wore a CCCP t shirt and voted for Trudeau.Thanks anon I actually laughed out loud.
No.11871
>>11867Go to average Joe with a career. You'll get mad at what they have and fail to realize your system seeks to tear down the little people who have built themselves up in order to stick it to the rich and powerful. Give them one instance of the new people not ultimately treating those they promised utopia to winding up treating those people as a disposable casualty of the state.
fedFed No.11872
>>11856That's a lot of words to say you're simply retarded. Take a nice trip down an open elevator shaft.
No.11873
>>11859it is often better to convince people to hate their smug meritocrat overlords and see appeals to "meritocracy" for what they are than it is to convince them of the merits of communism.
(not as part of any ingenious long-term communist scheme to overthrow the meritocracy, but instead because of the relative position of the two ideas - there are already plenty of communists for the level of organization they are at, what communists need is not recruitment but structure - meanwhile, far too few people know about the history and structure of the meritocracy.)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11874
If you want to know about fascist economics, you're living in them. That's what neoliberalism is, fascist economics, and China claiming that it's socialist because they use the word "People's" a lot doesn't make it anything other than the same shit in most of the world - workers in barracks and power in the hands of an oligarchy. It won't be long until the political system matches the economic system.
No.11875
>>11868>No, I post like this here because I thought I would get discussion unlike 4chan where you piss into the sea of piss and have a giggle.Yeah.. This board is pretty fast as far as spin offs go, but still much slower than 4chan.
Seriously, people will have month long debates with pages of text and sources and pdf sources.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htmThis is a pretty short introductory text on what most people refer to when we say communism.
Please note: there is nothing about ethnic struggle or cultural marxism or any of that crap
tankieTankie No.11876
>>11866>Why have the human dynamic to forming contracts when you can be micromanaged by the government's DeepMind?I just keep finding more to disagree with on a humanities level.
fedFed No.11877
>>11860I'm saying your pragmatism is nothing more than ideology, which is perfectly summed up in scales covering your eyes statements like:
> people who seek to live by their own merits and stick to their own laneas if such a thing is possible
accelerationAcceleration No.11878
>>11875All memes aside I did a fair amount of reading in my 20s and I forgot most of it but what I recall overall was that it was a system that waves an agreeable banner while offering the state a massive amount of power to micromanage the lives of the little people. With people tending to be pretty shitty, giving them more power to micromanage seems to be the root of the downfall over and over again. The board may also be quite slow because population is very low.
fedFed No.11879
>>11868You don’t. You make molotovs at home. Or better yet, bring a shield or water bottles for yourself and others. If you have extra goggles or gas masks or protective gear, hand those out to your fellow protesters. Bring a first aid kit and know how to use it.
No.11880
>>11877I don't think I'm purely ideology when you're the one insisting the pragmatism of others and what they feel to be practical down to the very definitions of class defined to them over their lifespan participating in class and then accusing people who don't see eye to eye with your arguments which are pure of emotional influence and implied bias as being emotional. I'm sorry.
fedFed No.11881
>>11868>Notice how I did not mention it but you did. Beyond that, I don't think common sense is an argument to make when I can instead ask you what practical purpose your ideology presents to people who seek to live by their own merits and stick to their own lane? Why might that tie into the system remaining vastly ideological rather than practiced?You practically mentioned it in all your arguments by constantly referring to how our points may be received. The point of superseding capitalism is that it is the only consequential option available, as any other option is inevitable crisis and the maintaining of the contradictions of the system until either its breakdown results in revolution or the mutual ruin of the classes. The rate of profit is not an infinitely propped up thing, it will continue to fall. And if that's not a good enough reason, then at the very least people can act to reclaim the time taken from them by the mechanisms of the system.
No.11882
>>11877like hideo kojima made an entire game recently ruthlessly mocking and humbling any clown that believes tey are truly independent. Or you know pick any film or art movement in the 20th century and you'll see the same critique show up again and again. Your pragmatism is the sewer run off of a capitalist system ardently propped up by its most feckless neophytes.
>>11880What happened to forming 'concise and simple' arguments, because this is meaningless.
accelerationAcceleration No.11883
>>11878>communism is when the government does stuff>muh human nature>communism always fails>the free market will decide bestYeah, you read ancap literature, amazing, we are all very impressed. Surely nobody has ever considered these ingenious arguments before.
No.11884
>>11879What do I achieve by participating in something whose mere presence makes bystanders board up windows and leave, after which the community itself enters economic stagnation from the volatility driving away businesses and scumbag businesses that ultimately don't feel the pain while the community and homegrown establishments rot?
fedFed No.11885
>>11884If I was racist I guess at least I get to make BLM look like they're destroying towns I guess.
fedFed No.11886
>>11871<me telling you that no, we do not want to exproriate average Joe's wealth, quite the opposite really>you telling me that I should go to the average Joe and tell him that I want to exproriate his wealthHow often did your mother dropped you head-first onto the ground?
No.11887
>>11884Can you provide documentation of instances where this happening?
No.11888
>>11882>getting into my semantics with me but engaging in good faith makes you look badYou forgot to post a chud.
fedFed No.11890
>>11876>I just keep finding more to disagree with on a humanities level.Why would I want continual periods of crisis and collapse when you could have stability and sustainability? What good are "contracts" (which doesn't even describe the actual relations of the economy) when they result in the decomposition of the dynamic you talk about?
No.11891
>>11889Not documentation, catamite.
No.11892
>>11886>me telling you to how you convey yourself to someone who doesn't share the same opinions as you matters<you implying no such thing is happening at all and if it were to it is not even worth paying mind to or questioningWere you born with your head up your ass or was it a nurture and nature thing?
fedFed No.11893
>>11891>lawyers that focus on bailing out protestors didn't happen>the vast majority of BLM protests were peaceful though the ones people traveled afar to turn to flames>bricks show up before riots kick offGood thing none of this is readily available right?
fedFed No.11894
>>11892So, you do agree that average Joe hates your fascist guts? My claim is that average Joe is my ally, and I specifically stated that I WILL NOT expropriate average Joe's wealth, only porky's.
No.11895
>>11888To recap
> when cornered you become needlessly wordy and anxious> your pragmatism is propaganda and made fun of by nearly every art movement in historyPlease finish high school before trying to debate anyone again
accelerationAcceleration No.11896
>>11889>Portland. Seattle.Literally still major economic hubs. The actual places economically suffering aren't anywhere near such places, its in the dried up hinterlands with abandoned strip malls and food deserts.
No.11897
>>11890What the former sounds like is communism as proven by it in practice while stability and individual merit comes hand in hand from capitalism. Yeah, people will exploit the system. I challenge you to find one people won't. This system however, has become the gold standard for stability and the means to elevate your state of being.
fedFed No.11898
>>11893Can you document the major economic depression caused by the (very based) riots, you illiterate corpse?
No.11899
>>11897>by it in practice while stability and individual merit comes hand in hand from capitalismCompare China and USA. Seethe.
No.11900
>>11897Do you speak russian?
No.11901
>>11895Are you projecting? When you guys get cornered you start throwing out adhoms while simultaneously shunning other people for their own. From the get-go I've been engaging in good faith though while feigning inferiority and also mentioning I've been on 4chan a long time. Look at all the egos it brought out of the woodwork whose opinions are truly objective.
fedFed No.11902
>>11898Can you draw an inference whendozems of thousands of jobs leave a city and have no intent to come back despite it being an economic hub? I'm leaning towards yes but you will pretend not to be because instead of concede on anything basic you're invincible and infallible.
fedFed No.11903
>>11902> whendozems of thousands of jobs leave a city and have no intent to come back despite it being an economic hub?Again, documentation please.
So many businesses around where I lived also closed down, but that’s because of the pandemic.
No.11904
>>11900And I'm not Russian so the government doesn't take 85%+ of my wages.
>>11899But I'm not Chinese so I don't live in a system where I can't even say mean things about my government online lest they strip my opportunity and human rights away in an irl shadowban.
fedFed No.11905
>>11897>What the former sounds like is communism as proven by it in practice while stability and individual merit comes hand in hand from capitalism. Yeah, people will exploit the system. I challenge you to find one people won't. This system however, has become the gold standard for stability and the means to elevate your state of being.This system literally runs into crisis every decade, with said crises decreasing in their distance from one another as time moves forward. In what way was individual merit not rewarded in the USSR as well? You keep talking about "elevation", but "elevation" in what context? As a worker in society elevating his community and himself, or as someone ripping into his own community to stay afloat?
No.11906
>>11903Are you telling me there are no press releases from major establishments such as Target that announced withdrawal expressly because of how the riots were handled and have no intent to move back in?
A tangent but did you know small first generation business owners are not only the largest portion of uninsured businesses, but that insurance doesn't cover civil unrest?
fedFed No.11907
>>11725>As mentioned earlier my business is commercial lending, insurance and corporate tax planningfucking lmao @ the concept of you doing work. Send another email you lazy fucking parasite, or better yet go get a real job
No.11908
>>11904А я говорю по-русски. Go ask the Russians how they feel about capitalism and, regarding the ones who lived through it, how they felt about the Union.
No.11909
>>11905Is the USSR still around? How about the other soviet iteration? Cambodians? The closest thing to communism still functioning today is the last widely known tyrannical and isolationist regime with poor technology in relation to the rest of the modern world.
fedFed No.11910
>>11901>Are you projecting? When you guys get cornered you start throwing out adhoms while simultaneously shunning other people for their own. From the get-go I've been engaging in good faith though while feigning inferiority and also mentioning I've been on 4chan a long time. Look at all the egos it brought out of the woodwork whose opinions are truly objective.You did none of this. You literally refused to actually address the arguments put forward, and instead offered up hypotheticals about the reception of certain points by working people. And you brought up ad homs way before anyone here did.
No.11911
>>11908Putin said "The heartless do not miss the soviet union. The brainless wish to see it again".
fedFed No.11912
>>11910mfw this is good-faith posting to a pol user
accelerationAcceleration No.11914
>>11906I’m asking you to find them for me. To do the actual work of confirming your assertions.
As for those businesses? Fuck’em. They’d otherwise either get bought out/outcompeted by bigger ones or become the bigger ones themselves. At least the former’ll proletarianize.
No.11915
>>11910I tried to tell you where communication breakdown like what happens in debate threads might be occurring especially if you ever actually tried expressing your beliefs to someone irl. I think I understand why I see a lot of 'you can't talk about your beliefs irl' throughout the board because people who are that socially maladapted and possibly actually autistic really shouldn't and it can't go anywhere good.
fedFed No.11916
>>11911>"ask the Russians">quotes one rich man from RussiaSounds about the level of intellectual rigor from a moronic insurance leech. Once again you should go get a real job, you ignorant and lazy little niglet
No.11917
>>11911Putin, the guy who buddies up with oil oligarchs and has a palace in Crimea. Sure he doesn’t miss the union.
Burgercide when?
No.11918
>>11906>Are you telling me there are no press releases from major establishments such as Target that announced withdrawal expressly because of how the riots were handled and have no intent to move back in?Then they'll just get replaced by a company who seizes the opportunity to establish themselves in the area, and obtain the unrealized profits in what is an economic hud.
>A tangent but did you know small first generation business owners are not only the largest portion of uninsured businesses, but that insurance doesn't cover civil unrest?And? By the merits of your system, they should be readily replaced by other competitive small business owners with capital. Always be ready to work, right?
No.11919
>>11913Guess its better than it used to he.
>>11914You're setting arbitrary guidelines to argue within when we've already established we have such a massive difference in our fundamental beliefs that we will never see eye to eye. Why do you think I might just stand stand ground instead of moving into your semantics game?
fedFed No.11920
>>11919> when we've already established we have such a massive difference in our fundamental beliefs that we will never see eye to eye.And yet you persist. You don’t have any actual evidence, do you?
No.11921
>>11904>But I'm not Chinese so I don't live in a system where I can't even say mean things about my government online lest they strip my opportunity and human rights away in an irl shadowban.China has highspeed rails, 60% of all world's highspeed rail. Obama in 2010 has tried to build some, and NONE was built yet. Trump tried to reimport LD screen production back to America, where is it? Same will happen to semiconductors. China will build her own space station by 2022, it already sent up there the core module.
No.11922
>>11909>Is the USSR still around? How about the other soviet iteration? It not being around doesn't change the escalating crises of capitalism. In my view, the USSR's issue was that it didn't go nearly far enough in centralizing production once prior forms of algorithm had run their course.
>DPRK>Tyrannical Lol. Sometimes I wish the DPRK were the "monstrous" regime liberals make it out to be.
No.11924
>>11915This is an imageboard anon, grow a thicker skin. No one going to try and convince people in this style outside, because this "style" isn't about being convincing, its about being frank about ones views. I'm not here to sell you something or flavor my words in a certain way, I'm here to state my views and pursue what I see as the truth.
No.11925
Let me take a step back. I don't post on pol and I don't particularly care about politics but in my brief brushes with people from this board they have promised more good faith conversation than is had on 4chan, or they're posting some really stupid inflammatory shit.
I'm trying to genuinely engage in conversation strictly from my viewpoint of really not caring about ideology of politics so much as how they work in practice and around me. I'm seeing a common theme where people here 'sniff their own farts' in the sense what might be a rather radical take to the wider populace is pushed and normalized through whataboutisms that despite not liking common sense arguments when made against you or even alluded to (suspicious), you will turn right around and make them in your own favor. Those are flimsy principles to be ignored because theyre so far into ideology they will literally and not figuratively have any impact on a stable society short of it becoming destabilized.
I don't care about you asking me to invest 40 hours into what you believe for it all to click.
I don't care you flaunt your big wrinkly brain with namedrops.
I don't care you promise me a unicorn.
I don't care you call me names because that's a good way to agree to disagree.
But I wanted to pick your brains for your beliefs and it seems like soon as you got a hint of your words being able to imply other beliefs you hold things got really nasty. If I learned anything from this it's that this was not the promised land instead of another idpol heavy subreddit minus the upvotes.fedFed
No.11926
>>11924I frankly believe these beliefs people espouse regarding a system that regularly fails are retarded, to be frank.
fedFed No.11927
>>11919>Guess its better than it used to he.The USSR literally didn't have an income tax around the time of Brezhnev, it didn't need one.
No.11928
>>11923In west bengal the communist party brought land reform and electricity. When anti sikh riots broke out in 1984, armed cadres protected sikh neighborhoods and prevented any sectarian violence from breaking out.
No.11929
>>11926>I frankly believe these beliefs people espouse regarding a system that regularly fails are retarded, to be frank.And yet, you're a fascist.
No.11930
>>11926are you talking about capitalism?
No.11931
>>11929Tell me what else I am. Describe your boogieman.
fedFed No.11932
>>11925Don't wanna seem inflammatory but this place is just like every other chan, sorry man. That's what you get.
Generally the better way to go about it is to state your own arguments then have people argue against them, rather than ask them for a model of the world. People on the internet are too lazy for that shit and if they weren't you would read the theory you want to know about, even if you vehemently disagree with it by googling "Marxist theory" or going to Marxists.org.
No.11933
>>11930No, the one that blames capitalism for its faults and casually ignores the inner corruption and malpractice.
fedFed No.11934
>>11932I'm normally a giant fucking cunt but I'm really trying to put myself out there to get other people to put themselves out there. No worries fren.
fedFed No.11935
>>11933>the problem is the people not the system!!This is peak liberal thinking. If you don't change the economic system but only remove the businessmen you don't like, other assholes will simply take their place. The very nature of capital and the commodity fetishism it brings will always creates exploiters and exploited.
No.11936
>>11925>you will turn right around and make them in your own favor.Where?
>Those are flimsy principles to be ignored because theyre so far into ideology they will literally and not figuratively have any impact on a stable society short of it becoming destabilized.Stop talking as if you're making a documentary you pretentious uyghur.
>idpol heavy subreddit minus the upvotes.Where was the idpol you fag?
No.11937
>>11932Plus what people seem to miss or get angry at when they realized it is that I'm looking for what THEY believe from Marx and all their other life experiences. What made them this way? What thoughts keep them this way?
fedFed No.11938
>>11936Use ctrl+f dude Jesus Christ.
fedFed No.11940
>>11931>Tell me what else I am. Describe your boogieman.Was it not you who was describing himself as a fascist earlier?
No.11942
>>11935I'd say the same for you because you seem to believe a system where the government has more power under the premise of it in fact bringing power to the worker is going to work out as it has been demonstrably repeatedly.
fedFed No.11943
>>11939Then stop storing me in your head. You say I'm a fascist when I'm about as far from it as it gets and just not sharing your same beliefs.
fedFed No.11944
>>11943Okay simply look at how well communist movements have done, the state of Kerela in India is the most prosperous state while being ruled by communists.
Health Indicators
Kerala
India
Birth rate (per 1,000 population)
14.60
22.80
Death rate (per 1,000 population)
6.60
7.40
Infant mortality rate (per 1,000 population)
12.0[22]
44.00
Maternal mortality ratio (per lakh live births) * 2009
40
301
Total Fertility rate (per woman)
1.70
2.90
Couple Protection rate (%)
62.30
52
Life expectancy at birth (Male)
71.40
62.60
Life expectancy at birth (Female)
76.30
64.20
Life expectancy at birth (Average)
74.00
63.50
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model No.11945
>>11465>Whenever /pol/ tries to claim that the far-right are the real anti-establishment heroes, they'll always trot out some example of Leftists being opposed to harsh-immigration laws No it's way more than that. You guys are the left wing of capital, and the western left is fundamentally fishhooking in its ideology now that globalization caused a confrontation between liberalism and populism
You guys want to on the one hand say populism and nationalism is petty bourgeois, so it reproduces capitalism.
But you reproduce it and liberalism as progressive again so long it is universalizing and leading to the conditions for class struggle or the left.
You do this so long as there is a middle class that obstructs class consciousness, which imperialism creates anyway.
Thus the race class synthesis in the settler colonial thesis. The issue isn't the reproduction of capitalism, ira basically who does so as part of the bourgeois democratic revolution still being progressive
But does this not conclude with rationalizing imperialism as progressive like Marx did?
This all seems to be why leninists and anarchists are in crisis while demsocs and such grow.
So how can you blame people who are populists because they have no stake in the reproduction of capitalism the left and liberals want? How can you call that reactionary when there is no revolutionary alternative?
ssnpSSNP No.11946
>>11938No anon, fucking where? In what way was this discussion anything like an idpol filled subreddit? 90% of this discussion has been primarily about the definition of class and the system itself, not identity.
No.11947
>>11941Remember this post 20 years from now. Think about how you're gonna feel then, right now.
fedFed No.11948
>>11937> I'm looking for what THEY believe from Marx and all their other life experiences. What made them this way? What thoughts keep them this way?God, what fucking liberal brain bullshit is this? You think that this is because of our feelings and experiences?
We recognize our downward mobility, the instability and dysfunction of our political and economic system and its general active hostility to people. Our economy is a case study of the red queen effect.
No.11949
>>11925"common sense" arguments are tedious and boring. if you wanted to actually talk about how things work in practice you'd be in an entirely different thread talking about china or cybersocialism or the fact that sphere starmer has now consumed all of hounslow.
your attempts to engage in conversation have fallen short largely because they don't raise anything of any particular interest to the userbase here. you haven't raised any interesting theoretical questions, historical moments, or anything that's particularly pleasing to explain, and people have responded with a level of disinterest as a result.
it is as though you've come into a statisticians convention just to argue about how you think the monty hall problem is bullshit because it runs counter to common sense. for about 5 minutes the statisticians will have fun trying to explain to you how counter-intuitively, it isn't bullshit, that they've done simulations and everything, and that statistics is a wonderful and fascinating field - and when you say that you're still not convinced they'll get bored and start telling you that the next time they flip a fair coin they're going to try and ping your eye out with it. except, of course, this is an imageboard so your eyes will be targeted not only for your own uninteresting questions, but even if you merely remind people of other uninteresting questioners in the past. people do not come to imageboards or to conventions to be bored. (well, maybe statisticians do.)
and as an outsider you will no doubt think "well of course you'd write this extended insult towards me, you're one of the people here who just wants to circlejerk", but let me let you in on a secret: i use this flag in part to tempt posters who i will find boring into revealing themselves before i make the mistake of talking to them in good faith. and as you can perhaps also tell, explaining to you why you have had such bad luck is something that interests me far more than many of the other things you have raised.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11950
>>11934>>11937Well I can't speak for everyone, but as a Marxist, I mainly came to this theory over a long process of 'radicalization'. First I was an unconscious liberal social democrat techie type with a Electrical Engineering degree. But I was highly conscious of systemic and environmental issues, as well as frustrated with planned obsolence.
Over time that led me to a position of understanding that capitalism demands constant expansion, constant production of "exchange values", in order to be maintained. As that is the case, this has major environmental implications. Through Jevon's paradox, improvements in efficiency cannot necessarily lead to diminishments in total emissions.
Thus we need to theorize a system, and advocate for a system, which demands a transcendence to the permanent closed loop of investment to yield profits, of constant growth. Or if there is growth as society demands, growth within ecological limits.
There are many approaches to this, some Marxist, many not. And not every Marxist places ecology in the greatest of esteems as I do.
No.11951
>>11944>parliamentary system of representative democracyLol
fedFed No.11952
>>11949I knew you were too smart to be a socdem. Now I can be less embarassex about you being one of my favorite posters on this board.
No.11953
>>11949Do you see any irony in your words, one who is objective and free of emotions, O paradigm of pure judgement?
fedFed No.11955
>>11954It’s a shame they didn’t last in West Bengal.
No.11956
>>11946The cult of personality either follows the same definitions unique to the platform or they are treated in a hostile manner.
fedFed No.11957
>>11954>communist party relevance >/= communismIs this the cope?
fedFed No.11958
>>11956That… is not idpol
No.11959
>>11945I demand a commie response
ssnpSSNP No.11960
>>11942Do you think governments have less power under capitalism or something? The government IS capitalism, it wouldn't even exist without them. >bringing power to the worker is going to work out as it has been demonstrably repeatedly.
To begin with, in every socialist state workers undoubtedly had more power than in their previous states, especially in Russia and China.
No.11961
>>11958Feel free to give your own interpretation to refuse conceding or even the slightest acknowledgement this place isn't free of clique rhetoric. The beautiful thing is people outside this triple digit visitors worth of traffic board care as much as I do.
fedFed No.11962
>>11960Yes, I do. I think under communism leadership has proven itself to have the freedom to singlehandedly destroy their own nations repeatedly and instances of success are not only a stretch to qualify as communism but a safe haven from acknowledging a shit system that repeatedly shits itself and blames the dog.
fedFed No.11963
>>11957The communist parties are literally governing the state.
No.11964
>>11961>Saying that this bard has an internal culture and can sometimes be insular is the same as idpol. Go to /edu/ if you wanna learn something.
No.11965
>>11963Capitalism is still keeping it all afloat. What's your point? "Look at the hats, I favor them"?
fedFed No.11966
>>11964>insular>wrongthink is established>definitions have their own meaning detached from the wider pool at largeUhhhj
fedFed No.11967
>>11965Did we just get a reverse “not real communism?”
No.11968
>>11953i have never pretended to be free of emotions. on the contrary my post is about an emotion: boredom.
(this without even having to read into whether some desiccated calculating machine of pure reason would write an extended tangent of mixed metaphors mainly as a vehicle for a few half jokes.)
the only irony, as i see it, is that you managed to reply to my good faith explanation with the kind of reply that justifies not giving you a good faith explanation. fortunately
>>11952 had a much better reply :)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.11969
>>11965by that measure Venezuela's failure is only due to capitalism.
No.11970
>>11967If thats the cope, yes. A communist party running a society that functions through capitalism sure isn't real communism. It might be if the current status quo loses an election though.
fedFed No.11971
>>11600>bad and complicit>>11925>good faith conversationThen quit needling people over semantics and injecting your own emotional reactions to technical terms. In communist discourse Bourgeoisie means someone who owns the means of production. Figure out what those variables mean in your own words and substitute it in whenever you hear it instead of jerking back to your feelings about that group. We aren't trying to over ride or change the universal definition of class, its just a pointer for the relationship to the means of production. The reason we aren't using your definition is because thats not what we are talking about.
No.11972
>>11969I'm the uninformed one anon, but that sounds very reductionist. Should we instead talk about communism collapsing to no fault of its own but purely capitalist pressure from those damn capital hoarding capitalists?
fedFed No.11973
>>11971Anon, I have now gone through every page of this board and regardless of how I presented an opposing viewpoint from the current state of the catalog and threads I went through, it would have made no difference.
fedFed No.11974
>>11956>The cult of personality either follows the same definitions unique to the platform or they are treated in a hostile manner.That's every imageboard. Lurk more.
No.11975
>>11974Lol enjoy being irrelevant.
fedFed No.11976
>>11970Define “running through capitalism.”
Never mind that india’s a federated state, shouldn’t communist controlling the government have ruined Kerala?
A communist named Jyoti Basu from West Bengal damn near became prime minister in 1997. What could’ve been.
No.11977
>>11962>communism leadership has proven itself to have the freedom to singlehandedly destroy their own nations repeatedlyThe USSR suffered 2 colossal wars and still transitioned from semi-feudal state to nuclear superpower. You call that a failure? lmao.
>a shit system that repeatedly shits itself and blames the dog.You keep saying this despite socialism having improved the conditions of people in almost every case. Only occurrence I can think where this didn't happen is the Khmer Rouge.
No.11978
>>11972What? Vuvuzuela was the same a Socialist government atop a capitalist system and even now you refuse to apply the standard you applied to Kerala in this case.
No.11979
>>11975Not an argument. Are you running out of steam? Perhaps you should go take a nap.
No.11980
>>11976Use enough brainpower to pass an 8th grade quiz that asks the same question. I anticipate the mental gymnastics eagerly.
>>11977Yeah I do. Because it fucking failed and never came back and is viewed as a historical mistake and tragedy against those subjected to it. 2 more weeks and capitalism will all break down.
fedFed No.11981
>>11975>Wanting to have mainstream tractionGreat way to ruin an imageboard tbh. Just look at modern halfchan compared to halfchan a decade ago.
No.11985
>>11982>Using specific words to describe specific entities in a technical manner is a cult Can you tell me what is validity and reliability?
No.11986
>>11983A purely objective and not at all emotional argument.
fedFed No.11987
>>11984Again, outside of the topic of capitalism, that's more or less most altchans and imageboards.
No.11988
>>11986>Saying they miss it is an emotional argument not a statement of fact that can be proven or disprovenI shiggy diggy
No.11989
>>11985Validity is how accurate something is and whether it to be true of not. Reliability is what people heres' bullshit filters are not.
fedFed No.11990
>>11986Hey, you were the one who stated "is viewed as a historical mistake and tragedy against those subjected to it."
No.11991
>>11988>They miss it>this is purely logicalRoom temperature
fedFed No.11992
>>11980You’re the one who made the assertion. I’m asking for clarification.
Could it be that you’re just spewing shit reflexively?
No.11993
>>11990A lot of people miss Nazi Germany too.
fedFed No.11994
>>11980>Because it fucking failed and never came back and is viewed as a historical mistake and tragedy against those subjected to it. That doesn't really explain how it failed, considering everything it achieved under those conditions. It's hard to call it a failure.
No.11995
>>11994Does it matter? It failed. Cambodia failed too. China's communism is literally the global powerhouse of capitalist pressure.
fedFed No.11996
>>11993Maybe 5% of Germans at most, not exactly a lot.
No.11997
>>11991Whether or not it’s logical for them to miss it (according to a burger piece of shit) can be debated.
What’s an objective statement of fact is that they do miss it, and don’t consider it a travesty per your words.
No.11998
>>11996They still miss it though. Is it a retarded argument? Yeah. Good thing that isn't mutually exclusive for the same principle which luckily you can nitpick something else over to avoid acknowledging.
fedFed No.12000
>>11993Do they though? More then 75% percent?
No.12001
>>11997A burger? The only instance of people missing Nazi Germany I personally know is that documentary where two old people threw on a marching song and sung along with it.
fedFed No.12002
>>12001We’re talking about the union, bitch.
No.12003
>>11995If your criteria for a failed state is that it doesn't exist anymore then 99% of the mightiest states in history have failed since they all ceased to exist. And impoverished, ruined states today can count as successes since they still exist.
No.12004
>>210793
I don't know man, what's the arbitrary % of Russians that miss communism? Should be equal.fedFed
No.12005
>>12003Yes, they have. If they could not maintain their state and no longer exist their success was momentary and their failure eternal.
fedFed No.12006
>>11998>Say a lot of people miss Nazi Germany >Person responds by stating that not a lot miss it <W-well, its a retarded argument anywayYou were the first one to bring up peoples view of said states anons
No.12007
>>11998Certainly but let's drill down a little further why do these two respective populations miss there's systems?
stalinStalin No.12008
>>11998Wat? But that doesn't help you at all, even pol pot must be having that amount of support. But a huge portion of Russians miss the USSR a majority.
No.12009
>>12004About 75% according to the last poll.
No.12010
>>12006Incorrect. Other anon began to base the whole of his argument upon an ambiguous amount of Russians saying they miss the USSR. I'm just making the same argument with a new coat of paint.
fedFed No.12012
>>1200975% of those polled that answered or 75% of all Russians that were expected to give an answer? Why might even people who miss nazi Germany say 'no, Nazi bad if interviewed?
fedFed No.12013
>>12011>people miss something>therefore it was goodGod damn I have to spoonfeed it to you.
fedFed No.12014
>>12010>Incorrect. Other anon began to base the whole of his argument upon an ambiguous amount of Russians saying they miss the USSR. I'm just making the same argument with a new coat of paint.No, you were actually the one to bring this up to begin with by stating "is viewed as a historical mistake and tragedy against those subjected to it", after which I responded by showing that most "subjected" to it don't see it as a mistake.
No.12015
>>12014>some Russians polled missed itI got owned and epicly refuted.
fedFed No.12016
>>12013No, that they don’t consider what came before a bad thing.
No.12017
>>12015Who’s arguing based on emotion now?
No.12019
>>12016What stops me from pulling out any poll of any subject I wish and letting my confirmation be ride it off into the sunset? Clearly nothing, but why might you still not want to do that?
fedFed No.12020
>>11999>i think the right-wing populism is like imperialism and capitalism turning on itselfI think so too. But I think liberals represent imperialism here, not us
How come that means we are reactionary but viet cong were based natlib struggle
ssnpSSNP No.12021
>>12017I guess I am despite your argument revolving around how people who got polled about something you feel strongly about feel when I'm trying to express why the logic behind it is really not smart.
fedFed No.12022
>>12013If most of them had suffered greatly under socialism I doubt this high percentage of Russians (
more than half) would have this opinion that the Soviet era wasn't bad.
No.12023
>>12012>75% of those polled that answered Of course its 75% of those polled, you can only get an answer from those you poll. That's how polls work, you use a certain sample size and you ask them to fill out your poll.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/24/75-of-russians-say-soviet-era-was-greatest-time-in-countrys-history-poll-a69735 No.12024
>>12022>more than half>a fucking poll>missing the point beside that this hardI hope you're only pretending, holy fuck.
fedFed No.12025
>>12019I got a day off work so me
you might be able to get away with it for the rest if the week until saturday if I sort out my shiftsstalinStalin No.12026
>>12023There's more than one of you so I doubt you understand fundamentally why your argument relying upon how people felt about something in some random poll can be used to accurately judge history.
fedFed No.12027
>>12024You idiot, people are not going to look back fondly on a regime that mistreats them, it's as simple as that.
No.12028
>>12019>>12021>>12024Anon, what do you not understand that you were the first to claim that most viewed it as a historical mistake and a tragedy? Just take the L lol.
No.12029
>>12019Ok, put it out? Put out contradictory data and that can be used for conversation?
For example, only 28% of russians want to return to the same path the union was following. Which isn’t necessarily an argument because there was serious problems with how the union was run in the 1980s, but that does not in itself constitute a problem with communismTM.
Anyways, we should all do a Cockshott and work towards a new socialism.
No.12030
>>12020Not the guy you're responding to, who's we? Are you Syrian, Jordan, Lebanese, etc?
No.12031
>>12005That communism is gone doesn't mean it's never coming back, as capitalism is not going to be eternal. Take republics for example, before the 19th century they had been an utter failure. Would you call them failures now?
No.12034
>>12026>why your argument relying upon how people felt about something in some random poll can be used to accurately judge history.See
>>12028. Also, the majority of polls fluctuate between 65% and 75%.
No.12035
>>12029>waaaah why aren't you playing by my arbitrary rules>waaaah humor me humor meLol no way fag
fedFed No.12036
>>12032But the fucking 90% of Germans do not look back fondly at Nazis /Pol/ is simply the exception to the rule!
No.12038
>>12020I suppose I don't see much of a real difference – in material terms – between Trump and a U.S. government led by Democrats. It's the same regime. The CPC's standing committee doesn't see a practical difference, just differences in tactics.
No.12040
>>12036This is the part where if I resort to your tactics I go find a poll that favors any stupid shit I say and despite it being common sense most people don't enjoy living under systems that abuse them this poll says the group of people they interviewed in fact miss it, regardless of if they experienced it or have any historical literacy regarding it and are some 20 year old in a shithole country that because of the lingering power structures of communism sees their country as ruled by corruption.
fedFed No.12041
>>12037>look at the pollJesus christ. No wonder you people spam cope.
fedFed No.12042
>>12021>I guess I am despite your argument revolving around how people who got polled about something you feel strongly about feel when I'm trying to express why the logic behind it is really not smart.This is your argument:
>Because it fucking failed and never came back and is viewed as a historical mistake and tragedy against those subjected to it.If most of the people who were "subjected to" socialism are saying that it wasn't bad and a lot of them actually say they miss those times, then your baseless "argument" is fucking wrong. How fucking retarded must you be to think your pathetic excuse of an argument is not based on feelings too? And worse, it's based on
your feelings, not those of the people you claim to know the opinion of.
No.12043
>>12040Ok then, find a fucking poll where a majority of Germans miss the Reich and it has a good amount of respondents.
No.12044
>>12042The issue arises when you conflate a poll to mean the whole of a society (or 75%) is with you despite pollings you disagree with over any particular subject being a dime a dozen both in and outside of your favor depending on how you prime the Google search.
fedFed No.12045
>>12040Just take the L son, it's not your fault. The USA's education system has failed you just as it fails all who enter its maw
stalinStalin No.12046
>>12043What additional social complications would arise from putting your name on a list of nazi sympathizers? The EU will go after 90 year old people to let em rot in jail.
fedFed No.12047
>>12040>>12041Anon, take the fucking L. You said the people subjected to socialism saw it as a tragedy and a mistake, polling shows the vast majority don't see it that way. You can debate why they see it that way, but they very much don't see it as either of the things you mentioned.
No.12048
>>12046>Anonymous polling collects your nameBrainlet alert
No.12049
>>12045>a fucking poll>leaning that hard into it>being so desperateI think I'm starting to like the cope meme
fedFed No.12050
>>12041Why don't you try to have at least one coherent thought per post anon. We can't read your mind.
>>12040>despite it being common senseLike arguing with a child.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question No.12051
>>12046Germany literally had a close to Neo-Nazi party the NDP you Idiot, which they let run and which got at most 2% of the vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany#Election_results_and_current_representation No.12052
>>12044>despite pollings you disagree with over any particular subject being a dime a dozen both in and outside of your favor depending on how you prime the Google search.If that were true, you could find a Russian poll that showed that the average ex-Soviet citizen "viewed socialism as a historical mistake and tragedy against themselves" right this instant. Go and find one, and then we'll take your "argument" seriously.
No.12053
>>12050I see an adhom but do you know what you call the latter half?
>>12048>hey do you miss nazi Germany?>people should feel zero anxiety or wariness giving an honest 'yes' when that in itself lands you in courtfedFed No.12056
>>12030I'm from pol
>>12038>It's the same regime. The CPC's standing committee doesn't see a practical difference, just differences in tacticsReally? Can rightoid nationalist populists join the anti imperialist bloc of nations?
ssnpSSNP No.12057
Why are reactionaries obsessed with aesthetics?thinkThink
No.12058
>>12052But anon, I'd never base my actual argument around a poll and how people feel about something that caused multiple famines the bread lines just couldn't keep people alive through.
A random ass poll from a year ago on how nostalgic boomers feel about the good ol times is comedy.
fedFed No.12060
>>12057When you don't have much you need to start clutching at straws.
fedFed No.12061
>>12053>I see an adhom It's not ad-hominem. I'm not saying you're begging the question because you're a childish dimwit. I'm saying you're begging the question AND you're a childish dimwit.
>but do you know what you call the latter half?Latter half of what?
Once again:
>>12040> We can't read your mind. No.12062
>>12057Because there's nothing of substance otherwise. Although even then most of it was stolen either from leftists or traditional architecture/artwork
No.12063
>>12054>No, you represent its "true face," without any blinders or masksHow can we be its true face while being part of the nation state that capital is supposed to ultimately supersede? This commie shit is confusing af
ssnpSSNP No.12064
>>12058But boomers even in America are correct, the 1960's were a golden age although unsustainable and discriminatory. Their instincts are correct and the majority of boomers were white.
No.12065
>>12061You can't draw an inference because you're probably actually autistic. If youre lucky anyways.
fedFed No.12066
>>12063I'm not sure what you believe. I don't know what right-wing populism is. All I hear from them is that America should dominate the world and crush competitors. But that's also what Joe Biden says. What's the difference?
No.12067
>>12058>But anon, I'd never base my actual argument around a poll and how people feel about something that caused multiple famines the bread lines just couldn't keep people alive through.Is English not your first language Mr. FBI man?
No.12068
>>12064I've learned a lot from you anon and none of it has made me particularly encouraged that leftypol is up to anything good when they're like a cult but an angry one.
fedFed No.12069
>>12063>How can we be its true face while being part of the nation state that capital is supposed to ultimately supersede? This commie shit is confusing afYou misunderstand the initial point then. The point is that liberals will speak around their intended goals and obfuscate the actual capital relations at play. You on the other hand will just say it blatantly, without any masking.
No.12070
>>12058>But anon, I'd never base my actual argument around a poll and how people feel about something that caused multiple famines the bread lines just couldn't keep people alive through.Ahh, and this is where we get to the classic part where you admit to base your twisted opinion on the Soviet Union on
>muh hololdomor>muh bread linesIf they were so bad and caused by the socialist system then why have so many former Soviet citizens stated multiple times before and after the fall of the Soviet Union that they were alright or better back then?
No.12071
>>12067>I can't interpret a basic sentence that fits in a tweet>that means you're stupidSometimes it's better to not post at all than make yourself sound retarded. Find me a poll that says otherwise and I'll believe you.
fedFed No.12072
>>12070What part of that was an answer and refutation and what part was acknowledgement and deflection?
fedFed No.12073
>>12065>You can't draw an inference because you're probably actually autistic. If youre lucky anyways.Well can you help an autist out? Latter half of what? I know writing a complete sentence without grammatical errors is a challenge for you.
No.12074
>>12063Go threaten the liberals deep interests on a structural level in a real way and observe how they start talking and behaving
You'll see it
stalinStalin No.12075
>>12068My point is that people are smarter then what you think, the nostalgia for 1960's America and the USSR is mostly a rational judgement. Do you think millennials are going to be nostalgic?
No.12076
>>12071>Sometimes it's better to not post at all than make yourself sound retarded. You know it, yet you keep doing it.
>I can't interpret a basic sentence that fits in a tweet>that means you're stupidYour syntax and grammar are completely fucked guy.
No.12077
>>12073You're beyond help anon. I tried to explain a bit of what I think is happening and even one of the locals said hundreds of debate threads all end in what sounds like semantics. This is your shithole, you stay here and away from greener pastures and keep on doing you.
fedFed No.12079
>>12076Grasping at straws and mad cuz bad.
fedFed No.12080
>>12058We don’t base our arguments around a poll. We base it on objective achievements with a healthy dose of historical context.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2430906/ No.12081
>>12078I really hope you're pretending to be retarded.
fedFed No.12082
>>12058>I'd never base my actual argument around a poll and how people feel about something This all started here
>>11980. Did you or did you not state this?
No.12083
>>12080It seems like everything came down to a poll then it got bandwagon'd onto because nobody else could come up with any other original bait.
fedFed No.12084
>>12080You are not here to engage in good faith at all
No.12087
>>12082Yeah I did. I also asked questions about the pol when I shouldn't have entertained it because at its base level the emotions free objective argument came down to how a percentage of the local population feel about their golden days.
fedFed No.12088
>>12084I put a scientific study up, dude. One that’s pretty modest as well.
No.12089
>>12085Anon I'm not gone. If you want to feel like you have influence or sway you should probably get a life and do something meaningful with the capital it presents you.
fedFed No.12090
>>12088srry didn't mean to tag you I meant to tag the fed flag
No.12091
>>12088>I put a scientific study up, dude. One that’s pretty modest as well.He doesn't want scientific study, he wants common sense. Give him some common sense anon.
>>12040>This is the part where if I resort to your tactics I go find a poll that favors any stupid shit I say and despite it being common sense No.12093
>>12089>Anon I'm not gone. If you want to feel like you have influence or sway you should probably get a life and do something meaningful with the capital it presents you.The lack of self-awareness is astounding.
freudFreud No.12094
>>12091>where ifYou sure your reading comprehension is alright?
fedFed No.12096
>>12094>>12095>?Exactly. I think this is a chatbot or he just started learning English and is overly confident.
No.12099
>>12096I mean languages are hard. I should know, I speak 4.
No.12100
>>12093>visit leftypol once>people expect you to download an app for a working UI>people here take the internet so serious one aussie shut the board down for a day>be today>see article on v about this place>'hey those are the people who radicalized Tarrant'>find way to bunkerchan.xyz>scroll catalog>troll some threads>get informed by local about how debate threads go>slowly witness the quality of the board>witness the infighting>witness the dog piling>witness the ostracization of different opinions in such a different manner than I've seen on brief glances through polLol ok
fedFed No.12101
>>12096Holy shit you're retarded if you're not ESL.
fedFed No.12103
>>12098You mean you have something to extrapolate a desired take out of then apply it where structural integrity is needed?
fedFed No.12104
>>12103>You mean you have something to extrapolate a desired take out of then apply it where structural integrity is needed?Chatbot.
No.12105
>>12103Why don't you resd the study and tell us exactly why it's bullshit?
This is what we call a dialogue…
No.12106
>>12102I don't know the exact % of transhumanists that off themselves but I get the feeling this place if they're truly synonymous with it raises that high score
fedFed No.12107
>>12100r/Stupidpol is the place for you
No.12108
>>12068There is no one angrier in this thread than you lmao.
>>12071You can't write coherently when you're this angry. You've written several posts that barely make sense. To avoid confusion and ambiguity, you should phrase your ideas correctly and use proper punctuation. But of course you don't care if people understand you or not because when they don't, you have an excuse to try to make fun of them, because that's all you have. Truly pathetic
>>12072At first you claimed that the USSR was seen as a tragedy and blah blah blah. By whom? By that 75% of "nostalgic boomers" you say are not thinking rationally even though they lived in the Soviet Union and you didn't? Or by the blatant liars who made that shit up?
Just admit you don't have proof and we do, and move on.
No.12109
>>12100>people here take the internet so serious one aussie shut the board down for a dayImagine believing this myth. Literally just one fag tooting his own horn, and everyone on /pol/ just believed him.
>hey those are the people who radicalized TarrantThat was 8/pol/, not us.
No.12110
>>12106>I don't know the exact % of transhumanists that off themselves but I get the feeling this place if they're truly synonymous with it raises that high scoreHah. He's already resorting to "you will never be a woman" posting. Like clockwork. At least you tried anon/chatbot.
No.12111
>>12105Nah. If I hadn't made it through the catalog I might have but ultimately I'm gonna guess it's exactly as I described. People post something like that to Substantiate their views here then it gets into a game of throwing them back and forth while insisting its all that is needed to build an argument and dismantle the opposition. People on pol don't even go this far
fedFed No.12112
>>12103Pretty modest confirmation of socialist countries having better quality of life compared to capitalist countries of similar development. You could even make an argument that only capitalism allows for the development for better health outcomes. You know, if you weren’t a pseud.
No.12114
>>12112Why would I make the argument when it's dreaded "common sense"? I get the feeling hating common sense while simultaneously trying to make bad arguments through personalized common sense stances has something to do with intuition making you understand common sense is what they lack.
fedFed No.12115
>>12112but anon, you failed to consider vuvuzela stalin iphone holodomor common sense human nature 100 billion dead from starvation. Checkmate!!
No.12116
>>12115Friendly reminder a quick ctrl f on any of that reveals who started throwing it around as a position to leverage their argument from.
fedFed No.12117
>>12114I feel like if you tried to tackle shorter sentences first it would help you learn to write a coherent sentence.
No.12118
>>12117I'm sorry anon, you need to surpass my 5 year old niece in English comprehension. She can read tweets just fine.
fedFed No.12119
>>12116Unfortunately for you, everyone else has closed this thread for good. Nobody will be doing any investigative work on this shit show LOL
No.12120
>>12119>implying I care about some other audienceHoly fuck the projection on a board that probably has less than 500 concurrent users
fedFed No.12121
>>12111>People on pol don't even go this farHaving a discussion in which people argue their points by posting the relevant information?
No.12122
>>12120But you do care. You just said anyone could see who started it, making your shirt flinging somehow justified
No.12123
>>12121No, conversations where people talk at rather than with eachother and begin to flail about over why their sources are best sources even if it's a poll.
fedFed No.12124
>>12116>>12120>>12123Either way you haven't even addressed the scientific studies.
No.12125
>>12122No, I don't. You misunderstand me posting something antagonistic in a polite tone as sharing the same investment in this splinter of a splinter.
fedFed No.12126
>>11844Per-capita GDP in Hitler's Germany compared to the U.K. and U.S. would've been equivalent to South Africa or Iran today.
No.12127
>>12125And you're not making sense again
I bet you're used to spamming a thread to bump limit because you merely don't understand what they're saying
No.12128
>>12124Nor do I intend to feed into an endless loop of fartsniffing and whatsboutisms. Good thing you already got me though right? Remember, I don't read anything.
fedFed No.12129
>>12127I am very sorry you seem to be literally autistic anon.
fedFed No.12130
>>12114Why does the US have the worst healthcare outcomes in the developed word despite having one of, if not the highest levels of healthcare spending?
No.12131
>>12128You're worse then the fascists here at least they outright dismiss any disagreeing source as jewish,
No.12132
>>12130Probably partially because of the DEA and the cost of operation gradually inflating things to the point you can fly to south Korea, get world class surgery then fly back for less than the cost of the same work in America. I fail to see where this extrapolation was intended to go.
fedFed No.12133
why is rittenhouse, a kid protecting someone else's shitty gas station, considered a hero?
Are reactionaries really that allergic to theory?
No.12134
>>12123>No, conversations where people talk at rather than with eachother That's called defending your views anon. You're not going to talk "with" someone when trying to show what you see as issues in their analysis of things, especially when they then defend that analysis.
>begin to flail about over why their sources are best sources even if it's a poll.Holy shit anon, you started this. You were the one to make a certain claim, anons refuted it, then you tried to say that polls can't prove anything in regards to the topic, even though its the only thing that could be used in regards to the topic (Russian opinion of socialism).
No.12135
>>12131They seem to do it a lot less frequently and entirely unironically than happens here, sadly.
fedFed No.12136
>>12134Once again agree to disagree. I believe talking at people gives them a solid indication your omly interested in yourself and likely disagreeable. Listening to eachother offers the opportunity to build up rather than treat it like a debate because the only thing you've got going for you is being undefeated low traffic debate champion.
fedFed No.12137
>>12135What? anyway I guess this convo is over.
No.12138
>>12135What did he mean by this?
No.12139
>>12136What did he intend to convey by this?
No.12140
>>12137They seem to genuinely shrug off and gasligjt people less often. An appreciation for honesty and being genuine that seems absent here might be it. I really hope for your sake the trolling and baiting here is all from pol but from the dates it doesn't look like the toxicity rolled in recently.
fedFed No.12141
>>12132That having high levels of development and money for that matter doesn’t automatically mean good outcomes and that basic forms of “socialist” public policy like those pertaining to healthcare, literacy, education and what not are relatively low cost with major effects.
No.12142
>>12138People can pick up on when you're a willfully ignorant cunt easier than you can put forward the facade of giving a damn about an opposing viewpoint to better deliver your own.
fedFed No.12143
>>11986>>11991>>12021>>12044oh wow you are actually retarded
do you really not know how to evaluate polls for accuracy or do you think polls are a jewish trick and people just pay for results they want?
No.12145
>>12140Lurk more faggot.
Do you really think that because you're shit worldview isn't tolerated makes us dishonest?
Make a thread about a topic, and I guarantee you'll get quite a few retards trying to engage you in good faith.
No.12146
>>12140Apparently the debate standard on /pol/ is so low, that posting material evidence is now "gaslighting" which is a meaningless buzzword.
No.12147
>>12143>what % of Russians were polled?>are you misconstruing the results?Met with radio silence. Show me a poll that you're not retarded.
fedFed No.12148
>>12147Do you know what scientific polling is anon?
No.12149
>>12145No. I think your shit worldview that is so shit it only thrives in low population corners of the internet that jerk eachother off and immediately off puts anyone from the outside that looks in.
fedFed No.12150
>>12148Yes anon. Tell me how that one is.
fedFed No.12151
>>12146But anon, I don't post on pol. Describe your boogieman to me and show me on the doll where he touched you. Was it in your head?
fedFed No.12152
>>12150>Yes anon. Tell me how that one is.I don't think you do if you're asking about percentage of the population polled. Here, let me educate you:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/howcan-a-poll-of-only-100/How can a poll of only 1,004 Americans represent 260 million people with only a 3 percent margin of error? No.12153
>>12149>No. I think your shit worldview that is so shit it only thrives in low population corners of the internet that jerk eachother off and immediately off puts anyone from the outside that looks in.this is a given, this is an imageboard after all
However, when I look at /SIG/ on 4/pol/ all I see is trad wallpapers and muh jooos.
There is no reading, no theory, and it really is a stretch to call /pol/ a board for politics.
No.12154
>>12100>>'hey those are the people who radicalized Tarrant'No, we were practically the only board on 8ch who actively opposed the right wing ideas of the rest of the site.
>>people here take the internet so serious one aussie shut the board down for a dayThe site never went down during the raid, at most they turned CloudFlare DDoS protection on so that you had to solve some captchas to access the site every 10 minutes or so. The normal threads were mostly fine and most of the raid posts were contained in a couple of threads, the gore spam threads that were created were immediately deleted. The "aussie who shut the board down", who no doubt took the internet more seriously than all of us combined, was an assblasted /pol/oid making retarded false flag posts so that he could screenshot them and post on /pol/ as proof of his epic victory against those damn gommie drannies who made fun of me with a wojak edit, as shown here
>>12109If you want to see for yourself:
https://archive.vn/A9QAq#926235http://archive.md/WAj2B#925897Lemme remind you that this all happened because /pol/cels, who think an internet culture war and aesthetics are what matter the most in the world, were offended by a single fucking picture made in MS Paint, and you believed their version of the events instead of seeing through their bullshit as anyone smarter than them would.
No.12155
>>12147>what % of Russians were polled?Do you know how sample sizes work? Did you ever take a fucking statistic class? The size of the sample matters less then ensuring random selection and repeated testing.
No.12156
>>12152>find poll that takes a portion of the populace>insist it represent them all accuratelyBut let's get meta and back to something I've even seen mentioned about lefties and polls
>relying on a poll in the absence of concrete evidence>using a poll about a long past regime that killed millions of people and had bread line famines to insist the system was a good onefedFed No.12157
>>12151>i don't post on pol?
No.12158
>>12155Bandwagon aboard. Not like that hasn't backfired.
fedFed No.12159
>>12152I just did the math for you on that figure they gave in the Scientific American headline.
That's 0.000384615384615%
>>12156>find poll that takes a portion of the populace>insist it represent them all accuratelySo you literally don't know what scientific polling is.
No.12160
>>12157I come from /an/ and /diy/. This board is deader than the mecha one and this is a good day for it I imagine. Each time you guys accuse me of being le boogieman I really don't know of you're that retarded or just trying to bait that hard.
fedFed No.12161
>>12156>>12149The poster is either trolling or braindead.
No.12162
>>12156>relying on a poll in the absence of concrete evidenceWe were debating what former citizens of The USSR's opinion of The USSR is. What would be your methodology for getting concrete evidence of their opinion if polling is a non-starter for you?
No.12164
>>12160so you're just a generic cuckservative
No.12165
>>12159I do, but you're trying to make it out as I don't because I doubt the validity of an opinion poll from a highly corrupt nation and regardless of that I doubt the validity of the poll contributing to the argument communism was good regardless of all other details because some people miss it.
fedFed No.12166
>>12164Show me on the doll where the internet nazi hurt you.
fedFed No.12167
>>12165>I do, but you're trying to make it out as I don'tNo dude, you really don't. Read this article:
>>12152 No.12168
>>12156>relying on a poll in the absence of concrete evidence>using a poll about a long past regime that killed millions of people and had bread line famines to insist the system was a good oneDo we have to go back to you original post? This was about your statement on people views, not anything else.
No.12169
>>12123In any case, you have 0 sources.
What do we have? Other than those polls you say mean nothing (without anynthing to back up that claim than your own mental gymnastics), we have scientific studies, statistics and history.
You are the only one here who's talking "at" others instead of "with", you refuse to engage in an honest discussion because you're mad about having been proven wrong early on.
No.12170
>>12165Why would the corrupt nation in question, Putin's Russia, want to fake an opinion poll like this?
You'd think he'd fake it the opposite way, right?
No.12171
>>12147they do a poll every couple years on several questions
look for yourself
https://www.levada.ru/en/tag/the-ussr/https://www.levada.ru/en/2019/08/07/the-soviet-union/>This survey was carried out May 24–29, 2019 with a representative sample of all Russian urban and rural residents. The sample comprised 1616 people age 18 or older from 137 localities in 50 regions of the Russian Federation. The survey was conducted as a personal interview in respondents’ homes. The answer distribution is presented as percentages of the number of participants along with data from previous surveys.
>The statistical error of these studies for a selection of 1600 people (with a probability of 0.95) does not exceed:
>3.4% for indicators around 50%>2.9% for indicators around 25%/75%>2.0% for indicators around 10%/90%>1.5% for indicators around 5%/95%
>In May 2019, the Levada Center repeated it’s list of assessments (14 in total) from the project “the Soviet person.” The respondents could choose an answer from the survey card if they corresponded with their ideas about the No.12172
>>12162Perhaps you were. I was debating an opinion poll does not erase famine, mismanagement, systemic oppression or collapse.
fedFed No.12173
>>12166yeah, you type in prayer like mottos.
Definitely a zionist.
No.12174
>>12166He called you a cuckservative, not a Nazi. Pocket your victim mentality for a second.
No.12176
>>12136And once again, you didn't address this:
>>12134> You were the one to make a certain claim, anons refuted it, then you tried to say that polls can't prove anything in regards to the topic, even though its the only thing that could be used in regards to the topic (Russian opinion of socialism). No.12177
>>12175It shows the people under neocon/neolib rule prefer the good ole days of bread lines and commie blocks
No.12179
>>12172>Perhaps you were. I was debating an opinion poll does not erase famine, mismanagement, systemic oppression or collapse.No you said the poll was incorrect. You said that those percentages of the population don't hold that opinion because
YOUR "common sense" would indicate they hold a different opinion on a society they lived in based on your understanding of how life was like in that society based on your supposed superior understanding of what life was like there and how people would feel about it.
No.12180
>>12178>i don't post on /pol/>references /pol/ screenshots kys
No.12181
>>12176I sure didn't because much like your opinion theirs doesn't matter in any pragmatic way that has a tangible effect on reality and that's how it stays until we're all dead.
fedFed No.12182
>>12172>>12175>Trying to misrepresent the initial argument to try and worm your way out of what was statedYou said something, people provided evidence on the contrary. This was never about "Russians miss communism, therefore its good". It was a response to your initial point on people seeing it as a mistake and tragedy.
No.12183
heres the latest one
https://www.levada.ru/2020/03/24/struktura-i-vosproizvodstvo-pamyati-o-sovetskom-soyuze/anon says
>>12009>>12009>75% according to the last pollWhich is probably quoting moscow times
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/24/75-of-russians-say-soviet-era-was-greatest-time-in-countrys-history-poll-a69735if you scroll down in the poll you see
<THERE IS AN OPINION THAT "THE SOVIET ERA WAS THE BEST TIME IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, WITH A HIGH LEVEL OF WELFARE AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR ORDINARY CITIZENS." >To what extent do you personally agree or disagree with this judgment? (one answer)
>February 2020>Definitely agree37>Rather agree38>Rather disagree13>Definitely disagreefive>I am at a loss to answer637 + 38 = 75
>>12012
>75% of those polled that answered or 75% of all Russians that were expected to give an answer? Why might even people who miss nazi Germany say 'no, Nazi bad if interviewed?
>The poll held on 20 - 26 February 2020 on a representative nationwide sample of urban and rural population capacity 1614 people at the age of 18 years and older in 137 populated points, 50 subjects of the Russian Federation. The research is carried out at the respondent's home using the personal interview method . The distribution of answers is given as a percentage of the total number of respondents, along with data from previous polls.your move
No.12184
>>12180Maybe if you fucking faggots kept to the appropriate boards people like me wouldn't have any chip on our shoulder for off-topic invaders that post absolute garbage like you.
fedFed No.12185
underage b&
No.12186
>>12175>Russians miss communism so communism good.And other communist state nations. Communism must be doing something right.
No.12187
>>12184I reject your narrative
Refer to the OP, it explains everything (aside from stormfront)
No.12188
>>12178>when this board exists because it couldn't handle bants on 4chan or 8chanThis board originates from 8chan, not halfchan. And this specific site didn't come into existence because of "bants", but because 8chan fucking died and got replaced by FedKun.
No.12189
>>12179>No you said the poll was incorrect. You said that those percentages of the population don't hold that opinion because YOUR "common sense" would indicate they hold a different opinion on a society they lived in based on your understanding of how life was like in that society based on your supposed superior understanding of what life was like there and how people would feel about it.You're giving me your brain worms. Apologies for repeating myself.
>>12181>I sure didn't because much like your opinion theirs doesn't matter in any pragmatic way that has a tangible effect on reality and that's how it stays until we're all dead.So now you're conceding the poll is accurate, but you're saying it doesn't matter.
No.12190
>>12179Yes anon, I began to argue its incorrect in the sense it is not as objective and infallible as you make it out to be because I moved with the goalposts away from the poll having no tangible effect on reality or meaningful argument to make that will ever see itself empowered and made real.
fedFed No.12191
>>12178>>when this board exists because it couldn't handle bants on 4chan or 8chanThis is like saying /pol/ exists because it can't handle bants in real life.
The answer to both is censorship forcing movement. Most mods and jannies on /pol/ ban communist theory.
No.12192
>>12189Yeah sure. I'll concede the poll is accurate. You won't concede the poll doesn't matter and is a poor hill to die on. You get your ego stroked, I get to know you're other there ineffectual and unwilling to adjust your rhetoric to become more effective.
fedFed No.12193
>>12190What is a common synonym for "vote"?
No.12194
>>12184/pol/ is for Politically Incorrect. Stalin and /pol/ Pot are on topic. Hell, Stalin purged the Jews before Hitler could.
No.12195
>>12191>pol can't handle banks in real lifeA literal cope for your home board being born of not even being able to handle these pussies ' that can't banter irl's own weak bants.
fedFed No.12197
>>12195Nice reading comprehension bro
No.12199
ITT: One anon tries to avoid taking the L for a single point he made, rather then admit he was wrong in that assertion and move to another argument.
No.12201
>>12196>grasping at straws this hardAs the meme says, I just wanted to play videogames. You spergs just want to shit up every board regardless of if they're the people you hate most that actually care about the topic this board cares about most. Go figure you radicalized people who just want your low effort shit gone.
fedFed No.12203
>calls sources gaslighting
>proceeds to attempt at gaslighting
>only gas lights himself
sad. many such cases.
No.12206
>>12201This sentence makes no sense. Work on your bots sentence structure.
No.12209
Can't tell if sophisticated bot or typical intransigence and smug ignorance of cuckservative burgers. Anyways this thread is fucking insane and is somehow still going on hours later.
No.12210
>>12206Engineer here. Noted. Will have it run overnight to adapt.
fedFed No.12213
>Anons sentence structure is moving closer towards "Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like? " -tier arrangement
Drunk or bot?
No.12214
>>12211Show me on the doll where the boogieman invaded you.
fedFed No.12215
>>12208Go digging in a mass grave.
fedFed No.12216
>>12211>the phrase "go back to /pol/" has more mentions then leftypol in any contextoh lawdy!
No.12217
>>12214I just wanted to watch cartoons. :^)
No.12218
>>12214>boogieman invaded youTo the bot runner, try and remove the term invaded. X invaded you can give it away depending on context.
No.12219
>>12217My first exposure was on gif. I was in some of those secret pol discords posted on 8ch so I pieced one and one together.
fedFed No.12220
>>12217I just wanted to discuss chess without /pol/yps shitting up threads about jews
No.12222
>>12218Bot? What bot? People think bots are real? That's crazy.
fedFed No.12223
>>12207>Leftists radicalizing a guy to shoot up a mosque Sounds totally legit
No.12224
>>12218I think it is trying to spell bourgeoisie
fedFed No.12225
>>12181>much like your opinion theirs doesn't matter in any pragmatic way that has a tangible effect on reality and that's how it stays until we're all dead.Ok, so now you're admitting that your assertion that "socialism is seen as a historical mistake and a tragedy" is wrong, yes? Because, using this logic, there's absolutely no way to prove that what people think about it one way or another is objective or reflects reality. The only way you could prove such a thing would be by asking the people who experienced socialism.
Therefore, you can no longer use the claim that "socialism is seen as a historical mistake and a tragedy" as "proof" that "socialism bad".
Unless, of course, you're not basing your claim on what ex-Soviets think, but on what imperialist sources have fabricated. If so, that's a whole another problem.
No.12226
>>12223Sadly. The endgoal was to get more pol posters to rise up and do some dumb shit which would hopefully end in censorship from news picking up on the notorious gunman 4chan. The end result was the gayest manifesto that came off as a mom rapping about veggies to try and get her kids to eat it up. Schizo threads are still routinely posted with stale links that weave a narrative.
fedFed No.12227
>>12225Only read the first sentence. Sure I meant whatever you think I meant with no errors or deliberate misinterpretations.
fedFed No.12228
>>12226Show me on the doll where the commie touched you. Everything will be fine.
No.12229
>>12226Can you respond to
>>12141 please?
No.12230
>>12226>its ur fault a racist cracker committed a mini genocide Take pride in your work, glowie
No.12231
>>12226>Sadly. The endgoal was to get more pol posters to rise up and do some dumb shit which would hopefully end in censorship from news picking up on the notorious gunman 4chan. The end result was the gayest manifesto that came off as a mom rapping about veggies to try and get her kids to eat it up. Schizo threads are still routinely posted with stale links that weave a narrative.rent free.
No.12232
>>12229I wasn't sure what to draw from it and I really don't have enough hands on with it to form an opinion, I just know our Healthcare industry is one of the most busted in the entire world.
>>12230But anon, I advocated infiltrating those groups to feed info to the glowies.
fedFed No.12233
>>12231>Rent free>all these people accusing me of being their boogiemanLOL
fedFed No.12234
>>12232you will feed info to the glowies while they commit the crime anyways. just like with the kiwi and the guy in austria
No.12235
>>12233>all these people accusing me of being their boogiemanWhere?
No.12236
>>12234I will regardless. I know I've made a difference because I put one of you pedophiles in my local county jail for being the one incidence of violence during a BLM rally here.
fedFed No.12237
>>12235I guess IDs do have their merit. Take a scroll through.
fedFed No.12238
>>121844chan was better moderated when there were commies and not just liberals and fascists in the mod team.
Also read the OP and stop believing /pol/.
>>12178/pol/ literally banned communists forcing them to migrate to other site. You're a fucking retarded newfag.
No.12239
>>12226>Posts regularly on 8/pol/ >Posts manifesto on 8/pol/ >Celebrated by 8/pol/ >Never uses /leftypol/ >But apparently it was all /leftypol/ acting in regards to 4chanWhat?
No.12240
>>12232So you can say it’s common sense that capitalist countries have the potential for higher development that leads to higher quality of life indicators, but nobody knows why the country whose healthcare system has the most money flowing through it has the worst health outcomes compared to its other developed peers.
No.12241
>>12236Very cool, but I didn't ask.
You like Biden?
No.12242
>>12238>pol literally banned communistsWhat Based reality do you come from and how did you get here?
fedFed No.12244
>>12242Seriously, next time you "see one", ask them about LTV. They're just false flags for fun.
No.12245
>>12241I don't like presidential candidates and I don't trust any of those Fulkerson. Bush Sr was okay and Trump was funny. I really don't like Biden because I feel like we elected Grandpa Warhawk.
fedFed No.12246
>>12243Schadenfreude at actual criminals is its own enrichment.
fedFed No.12247
>>12245>I don't trust any of those Fulkersonwut.
No.12250
>>12244I bet he thinks every israeli flag is actually a jew
No.12251
>>12242/pol/ jannies will delete threads or prevent them from bumping. Sometimes they'll ban as well, but that's usually after the thread is deleted.
No.12253
>>12247Recalibrating logarithms and backtracking the problem.
fedFed No.12255
>>12236> put one of you pedophiles in my local county jail for being the one incidence of violence during a BLM rally hereIs this supposed to make us respect you?
No.12256
>>12252I fucking hate these things but this is one of the few I actually have saved.
fedFed No.12257
>>12248>Astroturfing 8/pol/I would honestly be impressed, because 8/pol/ was schizo central. Any "astroturfing" would be noise on top of noise on top of glow operations.
No.12258
>>12255No. It's supposed to make you mad and remind you that opsec brings guilt by association.
fedFed No.12259
>>12257That's precisely what it was. Producing noise to drown out reason and exacerbate the schizos is part of ROLCON.
fedFed No.12261
>>12259>Producing noise to drown out reason and exacerbate the schizos is part of ROLCON.And how would /leftypol/ have time to do this when we were dealing with our own issues at the time in regards to the mods and board policy?
No.12262
>>12260You literally spammed them across non-pol boards. If you didn't want people who have no mind or attention for you or your bullsjit to get pissed at you and begin trying to infiltrate and fuck you over for the hell of it then post where you belong.
fedFed No.12263
>>12254Honestly its just the same as when you go twice forward in a pickup truck.
fedFed No.12264
>>12261It's the fuckjng internet and a random board. Sometimes it's really best just not to reply, anon.
fedFed No.12265
>>12261Well they don't exactly tell you what you are supposed to hoard during a plague.
fedFed No.12266
I suck cockfedFed
No.12267
I Left The Microwave On For 70 Years Last Night girl had so much silicon in her you could run doom on her tittiesfedFed
No.12269
>>12262>You literally spammed them across non-pol boards. If you didn't want people who have no mind or attention for you or your bullsjit to get pissed at you and begin trying to infiltrate and fuck you over for the hell of it then post where you belong.We didn't spam shit. Why would we be spamming stuff on halfchan? /qa/ and /s4s/ uyghurs fishing (you)'s is not the same as doing stuff.
No.12270
>>12258>opsecI don’t think you know what that word means, anon. Especially if you imply it brings guilt by association.
No.12273
>>12269You spammed it to such an extent to distance the other boards from the damage leftypol had singlehandedly invoked with one failed raid the site's url completely changed.
fedFed No.12275
>>12270Bad opsec means a pool full of people who are compiant.
fedFed No.12276
>>12258>opsecI actually live near Santa Monica, if you want any restaurant recommendations for tomorrow night. It would be too late to book one now.
fedFed No.12278
>>12275Who are what now? How does bad opsec make people compliant? How does bad opsec make them obey something or another?
No.12279
>>12276Be sure to tell my phone provider all about how you did that.
fedFed No.12280
>>12273>You spammed it to such an extent to distance the other boards from the damage leftypol had singlehandedly invoked with one failed raid the site's url completely changed.But it didn't, and we didn't spam or raid anything. Bunkerchan and .org were already seperate as well, and the redirect happened yesterday.
No.12281
>>12279Tell them yourself. Linguistic forensics.
fedFed No.12282
>>12278The sensation of pushing crows through narrow slots is exquisite.
fedFed No.12283
>>12281Lol don't do that to him he can't read.
fedFed No.12284
>>12278Depending on the crime if you're a compliant bystander you are legally culpable and your asshole is also capable of being buttered up by being cohesive when dealing with the feds which I am not, I just think it's the most appropriate one.
fedFed No.12285
>>12281Tell it to my ass. You can eat it and also suck my dick.
fedFed No.12286
>>12283I prefer parakeets.
fedFed No.12289
The bots are conversing.
No.12290
>>12201bruh if you're claiming that you don't post (or spend a significant amount of time) on /pol/, stop acting like you know more about it than us. You can't seriously believe all that shit about "/pol/ is right again" when they're the ones obviously shitting up every other board, right? These pictures are years old, the reason why everyone hates that board is that they've been trying to infect the whole site for years and they've succeeded, and you didn't even notice, now you're starting to believe them.
https://archive.is/DadgHhttps://desuarchive.org/q/thread/284599/http://web.archive.org/web/20210320044847/https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/125003.htmlLike other people said, next time you see one of "us" trying to start shit in a non-politics board, ask them about LTV.
>>12242It was worse back then, but yes, if you're a genuine communist who's really advocating for communism or criticizing fascism/conservatism from a leftist perspective, they'll censor you and possibly also ban you. Obvious shitposts made by obvious /pol/cels pretending to be communist stereotypes just so others can attack a strawman don't get that treatment. Besides, the origin of /leftypol/ was mostly /lit/, so you're double-wrong.
>>12215>I have no proofGood to know.
No.12291
>>12289I told you I'd let them adapt.
fedFed No.12292
>>12290They targeted gamers. Gamers. They targeted gamers. Gamers. We're a group of people who will sit for hours, days, even weeks on end performing some of the hardest, most mentally demanding tasks. Over, and over, and over all for nothing more than a little digital token saying we did.
We'll punish our selfs doing things others would consider torture, because we think it's fun.We'll spend most if not all of our free time min maxing the stats of a fictional character all to draw out a single extra point of damage per second.
Many of us have made careers out of doing just these things: slogging through the grind, all day, the same quests over and over, hundreds of times to the point where we know evety little detail such that some have attained such gamer nirvana that they can literally play these games blindfolded.
Do these people have any idea how many controllers have been smashed, systems over heated, disks and carts destroyed 8n frustration? All to latter be referred to as bragging rights?
These people honestly think this is a battle they can win? They take our media? We're already building a new one without them. They take our devs? Gamers aren't shy about throwing their money else where, or even making the games our selves. They think calling us racist, mysoginistic, rape apologists is going to change us? We've been called worse things by prepubescent 10 year olds with a shitty head set. They picked a fight against a group that's already grown desensitized to their strategies and methods. Who enjoy the battle of attrition they've threatened us with. Who take it as a challange when they tell us we no longer matter. Our obsession with proving we can after being told we can't is so deeply ingrained from years of dealing with big brothers/sisters and friends laughing at how pathetic we used to be that proving you people wrong has become a very real need; a honed reflex.
Gamers are competative, hard core, by nature. We love a challange. The worst thing you did in all of this was to challange us. You're not special, you're not original, you're not the first; this is just another boss fight.
fedFed No.12293
>>12290A broken clock is right twice a day and it seems to apply to here too. Generally I only get my dose of politics from C-Span so very seldom and very situational.
fedFed No.12294
>>12284> your asshole is also capable of being buttered up by being cohesive when dealing with the feds“Cohesive?” I genuinely don’t understand
>which I am not, I just think it's the most appropriate one.That’s a suspiciously specific denial. It would make a lot of sense, though.
No.12295
>>12277Doug Funnie = Short for Funkenstein
Skeeter Valentine = Originally Valenstein
Patty Mayonaise = Originally Mayo
Everyone character on that show is a crypto Jew.
No.12298
>>12284What does being a compliant bystander have to do with opsec? Do you think they’re in on it, anon?
Is that what the glowie flag is about? You wanting so hard to be a cop?
No.12299
>>12295Sorry turned off my flag for a second.
>>12288Whole show takes place on an """"operating system""""". Only one non-kiked OS.
fedFed No.12300
>>12290You're talking to bots anon.
No.12303
>>12300Alright, imma go archive this thread now, then. I hadn't had this much fun since the October raid.
No.12304
>>12302its openly christian
fedFed No.12305
>be me
>call it a day and go to sleep
>wake up
>a thread with 30 replies, now has over 800 replies
Leftypol took some bait again, innit?
No.12306
>>12304>its openly christianThen how come they have so many episodes about Jews and Jewish history?
fedFed No.12308
>>12306Woah your right. Thats really weird. I think you are on to something.
No.12311
>fascist raid
>it’s just 2 or 3 /pol/yps revealing how fucking stupid they are
Wow this was boring
No.12312
>>11465(T-NatSoc poster btw for anyone who cares, didnt want to misrepresent)
>Well it's another day of /pol/fags raiding. Given the increased attention our board has gotten I figured I should write up a critique of /pol/; both the "arguments" it makes on here as well as its ideology in general. Maybe some /pol/lyps read it and take it to heart, most likely they wont. This is just an open post anyone can comment on. I'm slightly hungover, so forgive me if this comes across as a bit incoherent.Will give it a read anon
>/pol/ is ostensibly a "fascist" board. Though its far removed from the fascism of yesteryear. Whereas Italian Fascism at least had an intellectual and philosophical component to justify itself, whereas it could elaborate on some basic tenets (even though it would contradict all of them at some point) Nazism had no such thing: just an incoherent conspiracy.If i may ask anon
Have you ever actually read any NatSoc literature?
I dont mean this necessairily as a "jab" its just that I have a hard time anyone who has read Germany Tommorow or even White Power by GLR would come away believing it was simply a "conspiracy theory"
The ideology preports to be a "world philosophy" which gives fundimental tenants to both personal and political life
Even if your initial position is that it fundimentally FAILS to provide as such it may help to read NatSoc literature to better critique it
I for the record originally read Marxist and leftist literature for much the same reason
>All /pol/ is home to is the socially maladroit children of middle income earners. Well, and Boomers screaming at the world as the last synapses in their brain burn out. Of course there may be a few exceptions here and there (and its obvious /pol/ anons like to LARP as the exception to the rule) but for the most part the same people are attracted to /pol/: The children who sat alone on the playground. The incel seething at some happy couple in a coffee shop. The kind of person who thinks they're one life coach grifter away from finding real happiness.Anon, keeping in mind that you are self admitedly inebriated, may i ask what exactly is the fundimental difference between this and the "/pol/fag" types who call you
>"transhumanists"and ignore your arugmentation on the basis of your supposed character??
I for one know nothing about you
For all i know your a drug addicted child predator with down syndrome
Yet I (a pathetic and brainless reactionary CHUD!!!!) am capable of engaging your ideas without commenting on my assumptions of your character.
I would hope to Christ infinitely more wise and intelligent (and superior no doubt) theorists of lefty /pol/ would, AT THE LEAST be capable of attaining at least the minor grace of virtue my poor psuedo intellectual capabilities grant me
>Everything /pol/ does is directed by their class position as the children of middle income earners, as asocial loners with serious self-esteem issues. If they do have a career, its likely as a contractor or some white collar worker that is isolated from or in direct confrontation with other workers. Either way, it leads to /pol/ being collectively impotent.If such is the case then why bother mentioning it?
I mean if their arguments trully our manifestations of their class positions and nothing more it should be easy enough to undermine said positions on their own merits.
Something i might add would make your argument the stronger.
>Comrade Stalin once taught that Anarchism is a strain of liberalism, in that it sought the total liberation of the individual. I believe that Fascism, by contrast, promises the total tyranny of the individual: a way for maladjusted individuals to exercise violence upon others to satisfy their libidinal urges.…
Anon i've read through a paragraphs worth of diaologue at this point
where exactly do the
>"Critiques"Begin???
>/pol/ can tout campaigns such as placing "Its Okay To Be White" posters on college campuses, but at the end of the day these are individual actions and can only affect individual change. The Fascist violence of today is individual violence: its the fascist murdering groups of school children. Its the fascist gunning down peaceful churchgoers. The only "change" /pol/ can manifest is individual psychos throwing deadly temper tantrums and rallying more people against itself.Out of curiouslity how would you factor in the riot at the capital into all this?
>No. The Republican Party did. Oh sure, the enthusiasm you guys showed for Trump helped, but if he'd done anything but run Republican he would've fallen on his face. You were accessories to his victory, not the deciding factor.Republican party seems as though they'd have been much happier both before 2015 and currently with a candiate OTHER then donald trump being selected
largely because were one?
They'd probably be in controll of the presidency and both houses of congress right now
>Which brings me to my final point: you've all been useful stooges for right-wing parties. Wait hold the fuck up
Where the fuck is the ideological critique??
lol.
>What was your overall strategy?Destabilization of the political order, moving the overton closer to explicitly ethno-nationalistic politics through promotion
Given the fact that 40% population now thinks elections are bullshit and the most watched cable news show in america just talked about replacement theory life on the air i'd say its going pretty well
>Nevermind that you don't have any infrastructure outside of mainstream right-wing political parties. Nevermind that you have no policies other than impotent rage at everything around you. You approach politics like a kite approaches the wind: you let it blow you around and pray you go in the "right" direction.This sounds like alot of cope for a dude whos watched the "left" become defined as explicit Reganism with a D after its name in his life time
(apologies if that came as snide but given the fact there apparently is NOT actual argument to this post i dont think it was tottally undeserved)
>I'll be perfectly frank: /pol/ is a cancer. That cancer is what killed 4chan.>Wherever "discussion" that leaves the door open to White Nationalists happens, they flock to it like a moth to a flame. Usually because they're despised and insta-banned everywhere else.>You weren't changing peoples minds. You were pushing the oldfags out with your excessive faggotry.If thats the case anon why not just mock us into oblivion??
If we trully have NO arguments why not just bully the right off the platform like the right bullied feminist types???
Memes are easy enough to come up with.
The only issue to be had beyond them is argumentation, which if you fail at makes it harder to further your opinion on a public space.
>Your entire board's culture is dedicated to seething about all the sex blacks and Jews are taking away from you. Exactly how often do you think we think about sex anon??
Most /pol/ocks report porn threads and sage the shit out of any discussion regarding sex as quickly as possible.
No one talks about black guys fucking white girls but literal shills who everyone immidiatelly calls a faggot.
Who the fuck are you even characturing at this point??
>The fact is large corporations support immigration because it allows them to pay a lower wage. You're not a revolutionary for recognizing that. However instead of taking the common sense position that the corporations themselves should be punished for driving wages down, you always seem to wind up on the side of brutalizing the immigrants.>And do you know what? Megacorps love our current immigration policy perfectly well! Harsh penalties for "illegal" immigration means you can hire people at a sub-minimum wage, avoid paying them benefits, and at any time you can use the threat of police violence to keep your workers in line! Anon i dont know who exactly on the "far right" you think your critiquing
But i can honestly say that in my ideal state anyone who invaded the nation, or aided in the invasion of the nation (such as a business owner seeking cheap labo) would be publicly lynched, their corpse adorning the borders of the nation themselves.
>All the Left wants is for our fellow workers to be treated as human beings, rather than as subjects of a totalitarian regime.As you were indoctrinated to want to do on the basis of the liberal morality propagated by the very same capitalists you claim to oppose.
>There's a saying that /pol/ would be wise to learn: "It takes ten minutes to debunk a ten-second lie."Similar to the lie
"Profit is theft" anon??
>>You can throw all the graphs, stats, and empirical evidence you want out there, /pol/, but the fact remains that all of these things can be faked (and quite often /pol/ shares completely manufactured quotes) or misinterpreted.Oh no shit anon.
But that goes for everything doesn't it?
the holocaust
the moon landing
The fucking shape of the earth
We can go down all manner of shizoid holes in the persuit of our bias if we wish but it cannot and will not ammount to an objective argument unto itself unless universally applied
Be as skeptical of what the FBI and learning institutions say as you want, but be prepared to either apply that standard universally or be called out as an idiot to stupid to realize his own inconsistancy.
In any event however?
You wont have "debunked" anything
You will just have denied it
Purely on the basis of your own standards of evidence i might add.
>That "normies" can't respond to your evidence isn't because of the power of the evidence itself. Its because literally no one things about race and racism as much as /pol/. Normal people don't spend their day meticulously combing through "Justice for Germans" and hearing "both sides." To expect that of them is ridiculous. You can create the appearance of having an empirical ideology while being as far from correct as possible.Sounds like alot fuckin cope for a guy whos entire argument is based around being suspicious of of that which he is told selectively.
As for normies people are indoctrinated to believe what they believe from childhood
It is only men of at least meagerly differenitated intelligence who ever question anything they are told.
If you are not one as such that is your business
But i someone doubt writing "critiques" of other ideologies is then the ideal line of work for you
>No alliance with Fascists.Never would expect as such from you anon
The only people who would commit to such are utiliterian
And if you were utiliterian
You wouldn't be a fuckin Marxist
(IE someone who sees wage labor as inherently wrong as "exploitation")
No.12313
Why yes anon, I have read heidegger, how could you tell?tankieTankie
No.12314
>>12311I wish the shitty foreign policy article got a bunch of neocons to raid here instead arguing with retards from pol gets boring fast
No.12317
>>12312This isn’t a rebuttal and I apologize, but this genuinely reads like a 13/14 year old write this, topped off with the cringy images. Proceed
No.12318
>>12312Do…do you even know what utilitarianism means in the political sense. Have you even read Mill?
No.12319
>>11571>Whh? I embraced the tenants of fascism.>Arbeit. Macht. Frei.This is parody right? Did The Nazis ever use this slogan anywhere besides the camps?
>>11575>Very persuasive, I definitely don't want to gas you now.Literally shaking RN.
No.12322
>>12315Oh of that anon
I have no doubt
>>12316Your Perogative
>>12317Sorry about that anon,
It is late and I didn't grow up in education was really provided lol
Written english is more less akin to a second language to me, one i had to teach myself.
>>12318Yes and yes
But Marxism as an ideology isn't one which is truly coherent in that regard.
It gets around this as it isn't truly at its core an advocation for an action on the basis of benefit but rather a statement on what it sees as the inevitable conclusions of a system
Still in so far as material interest is considered to be the "end" of human action it makes no sense to oppose actions on the basis of their "alienation" to the given "worker"
No.12323
>>12320>Have you? No offense, but it is hard for a Kraut like me to even imagine this. Most NatSoc literature is in german and written in a very specific context only suited for germany around that time period.I have
though i would challenge the assertion that National Socialism only makes sense in a single context as i would argue it necessairily reaches beyond that context as it represents the next meaningful step in the progress of western philosophy.
Its like saying democracy can only be understood in the historical context of ancient greece and any modern implication is, on that basis alone, unfounded.
No.12325
>>12318can you pseuds even order a pizza without namedropping? can you have a discussion without using obscure field-specific definitions of words even though you clearly know what he meant by utilitarian? being insufferable doesn't make you look smart, it just looks like you're trying too hard. like, have you even read carnegie? do you see how stupid that sounds?
No.12326
>>12325>can you have a discussion without using obscure field-specific definitions Its a basic moral philosophy thats discussed in any undergrad intro to philosophy class.
No.12327
>>12323>it represents the next meaningful step in the progress of western philosophy. lol, motherfucker what? Its a conspiracy based around some idea of a "super race" that's brought low by Semites which are simultaneously the strongest and weakest "race" out there. Nazism has contributed absolutely nothing to the western philosophical canon, its just some fucking Austrian incel seething about Jews. The entirety of its philosophy and morals devolve down to "Everything would be perfect if the kikes were gone."
Its a pathetic ideology. I can at least give Italian Fascists credit for trying to create something new.
No.12328
>>12322Is this the west virginian shitkicker?
No.12329
>>12324>Utilitarianism is an ethical philosophy about creating the most happiness, not "working towards a goal by any means". Anon i stand by premise
And whether you believe i have or not, i have, in so far as anything an anonymous person on an image board says means anything, read mill.
Marxism misunderstands and infact misreprsents the human condition.
If you saught to increase human happiness including your own you would attempt to implement an ideology which understood human phycology and its evolutioanry base and integrated as such into the doctrine of its an idelogy.
Such as National Socialism infact does.
>>12327>lol, motherfucker what? Its a conspiracy based around some idea of a "super race" that's brought low by Semites which are simultaneously the strongest and weakest "race" out there. Anon not to be terse
But this litterally the equivilant of
>"Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff government does the more socialist it is"tier understanding of the ideology.
>"REEEEEEEEEeeeeeeee">>>"reeeeeeeeeeeeee"Anon is this really the best you fucking got??
This pathetic screaming of unsophistcated emotion into the void???
I could expect as much from a lib anon
But not a Marxist
Marxists (at least in so far as i've talked with them) ALWAYS at the LEAST have an ARGUMENT for their views.
You are the first self proclaimed i've seen in a long time who litterally doesn't.
>>12328Guitly as charged.
No.12330
>>12326it's also a common word in the english standard vocabulary. the fact somebody else redefined it within a specific field doesn't change its standard english definition. the context in which it was used made it clear that he was using the standard english word and if you honestly couldn't tell then you should be more concerned about passing grade nine english than any kind of undergrad program. stop trying to impress people on the internet with your feigned misunderstandings, it's a fruitless endeavor that disrupts threads without adding anything meaningful to the conversation.
No.12331
>>12329Go to sleep.
Btw, in a communist country, you’d likely have been able to get a decent education or at least taught to read and write so that you could better engage with ideas and communicate your own.
No.12332
>>12329If you want to claim that National Socialism represents a "meaningful step" in western philosophy, you better have the fucking balls to prove that statement.
All one can look at, if they were to examine the material "achievements" of Nazism, is a Europe that was devastated by war, an economy that was run by slave labor, and a "super race" that lost a war against people it considered "subhuman."
I might be riding the waves of some fucking lager, but I can at least recognize bullshit when I see it. The entire political philosophy of Nazism rests on unchallenged assumptions (that "decadence" is a measurable thing that destroys civilizations) and a host of bullshit.
No.12333
>>12331>Go to sleep. Perhaps should
>Btw, in a communist country, you’d likely have been able to get a decent education or at least taught to read and write so that you could better engage with ideas and communicate your own.kek
Touche
Though the same could be said for a NatSoc country anon,
Though i will admit, i would absolutely rather have been born in the DPRK then the US.
>>12332>If you want to claim that National Socialism represents a "meaningful step" in western philosophy, you better have the fucking balls to prove that statement.Sure anon,
And i will
Assuming the thread is still up come morning i will respond IN DEPTH,
you have my word.
No.12334
>>12329>Marxism misunderstands and infact misreprsents the human condition.[citations needed]
>>12330Weirdly enough in philosophical discussion, words have different meanings. With people spending there lives debating over the definition of something.
>the fact somebody else redefined it within a specific field doesn't change its standard english definition.That somebody else created one of the most influential moral philosophy in history. He didn't "change the definition", it was used as an extension.
No.12335
>>12333I eagerly await your response. G'night Nazi. I hope you can be re-educated.
No.12336
I hope this one doesn't get stuck in a Nazbol pahse
No.12337
>>12335I don't think he can at this point. This would be his fifth thread, and he's pretty much just putting all of his prior arguments on loop and hitting repeat. You can see it in the recent ones:
>>205232>>176932 No.12338
>>12305Woke up after a full night of rest and a mild hangover. It's even funnier now than before.
fedFed No.12339
>>12329Based as fuck shitposter
fedFed No.12340
>>12334Nah dude. It was cringe and I'm gonna post here a lot more often. You guys get mad as fuck.
fedFed No.12341
>>11945Reply to this commies
ssnpSSNP No.12342
>>12323>Its like saying democracy can only be understood in the historical context of ancient greece and any modern implication is, on that basis alone, unfounded.That would be another discussion and the case can be made that the Athenian concept of democracy isn't being used anywhere in the modern world.
My point however is that National Socialism was loosely based on the concept of prussian state socialism coined by Oswald Spengler. And this ideology was specifically designed to reject "english Liberalism" and "french Anarchism", and to be only suitable to the german people. To appropriate an ideology that pretty much openly doesn't care about the conditions of other countries except germany, for a non-german is frankly quite stupid.
No.12343
>>12341Tbh I don't understand what you typed out. You used a lot of big words incoherently in oder to sound witty. Make it coherent, then I'll try to reply
No.12344
>>12343How can I help
ssnpSSNP No.12345
>>12344You can't help stupid especially when it's facetious to avoid conceding. I was drunk as fuck yesterday but even through that I figured out them allegedly being so up their own ass they can't concede on anything down the the very standard definitions of words because without those semantics they have nothing. Fart-sniffers, man.
fedFed No.12346
>>12344>>11945>You guys are the left wing of capital, and the western left is fundamentally fishhooking in its ideology now that globalization caused a confrontation between liberalism and populismWhat do you mean by fishhooking? Also why do you assume that populism makes a distinct political movement. Liberal intellegentsia thinks they do, but there is hardly any evidence.
>But you reproduce it and liberalism as progressive again so long it is universalizing and leading to the conditions for class struggle or the leftWhat did he mean by this?
>Thus the race class synthesis in the settler colonial thesisDid the sentence got cut off?
>The issue isn't the reproduction of capitalism, ira basically who does so as part of the bourgeois democratic revolution still being progressive What connection are you trying to make?
I think this makes your core argument. I will reply to the last part later if I get it
>>12345Ok? Cool story bro
No.12347
>>12346uyghur you're the one writing paragraphs of your personal belief and sniffing your own ass when none of it has any impact on reality especially because you retards filtered yourself out by constantly bickering over basic definitions with eachother. How the fuck are you going to effectively message to anyone else?
fedFed No.12348
>>12347>by constantly bickering over basic definitionsOnly anglos care about definitions. Sniff
No.12349
>>12348Seems like there must be a lot of Aryan anglos here because when you aren't busy fearing your boogieman you're busy accusing eachother of being one over their lack of playing by special snowflake definitions you learn from a book about communism or freshman philosophy which is where most fartsniffers up their own ass land.
fedFed No.12351
>>12350You're the guy in the other thread too aren't you? You respond in short quips and came out swinging with "I'm not mad, but you're so mad in gonna go out of my way to interact with you when you outright said youre a shitposter".
Be honest, how fat are you and what was your last job?
fedFed No.12352
>>12351Nah. I'm that guy
>>12305I just think you're fun to troll. You seem desperate and kinda permanently online. You reek of projection
No.12353
>>12352>permanently online>is the first one back>accuses me of being another anon that made you made in the past>"I'm trolling u">"I'm not mad ur mad">projectionHoly cope. How fat are you, what was your last job, do you ever talk about politics in real life or can you not because you're too retarded to talk to actual people and retreat online?
fedFed No.12354
>>12353I weigh two metric tons
My last job was a walrus masturbator
I stand on street corners with a megaphone shouting about the labor theory of value while blasting the Internationale from a boom box
No.12355
>>12354Damn that's pretty Based. Sucks reality doesn't match delusional commie fantasies.
fedFed No.12358
>>12357Seven proxies.
fedFed No.12359
>>12356Nope. I nailed anon. He does nothing and has nothing going on like most people who argue about communism being practical and effective online all day.
fedFed No.12361
>>12356The ex-walrus masturbator here, I was making fun of glowflag anon. I figured that saying a person weighs literally two metric tons would signal that I was mocking him.
No.12362
>>12361He takes it literally, makes a screencap, posts it on 4chan and claims victory. You can't reason with these people
Btw why did you quit with the ex-walrus masturbator job?
No.12363
>>12361I've been accused of projection over a dozen times my first hour baiting this morning. Funny thing about projection is the people who like to chuck it around casually are usually very well entrenched in their own.
How fat are you?
>>12362I did cap my ban from leftypol and no I'm not going to post it on pol. A new folder in the bans folder.
>>12360Thanks man it's a note from your playbook!
fedFed No.12364
>>12362I taught the walrus how to jerk himself off into the bottle and was fired for slacking on the job.
No.12365
>>12364The Bourgeoisie at it again
No.12367
>>12366Every post I understand why the cope meme comes from here more and more yet seems to have been appropriated by your boogiemen.
fedFed No.12369
>>12368?
Pass 8th grade english.
fedFed No.12371
>>12370pass 7th grade english
fedFed No.12372
>>12371This guy can’t even place a period or comma in the appropriate spaces, yet he lectures us about passing english.
No.12373
I'm admittedly just skimming the thread right now, but so far all the /pol/ responses I've seen are just various /pol/yps whining "Nuh-uh, our ideology is super serious!" and "Actually you guys are weak/unemployed/lazy!"
Which, again, just reinforces that Fascism as it presently exists is just militant liberalism. Everything devolves down to individual attitude, individual thought processes, and individual experiences.
Furthermore, when called out that the sum total of their ideology is essentially just "Austrian Incel seethes about Jews and conjures stories about a super race" they'll rush to claim there's more to it than that, that it's deeper than that, but never actually prove its anything more than that.
The whole of Nazi ideology is based around claims of their being some "Aryan super race" which conveniently manages to lose two world wars against "subhumans" and find themselves subjugated, allegedly, by semites. Nothing in Fascism's base claims are proven, just assumed and rewritten whenever it suits the fascist.
No.12374
>>12372This guy starts pretending to be retarded when he has nothing better to respond with.
fedFed No.12375
>>12373What did you think about the native poster's description of debate threads and how they usually shut down? I made my central point to argue over that redefining words and then adhering to those definitions within a niche community neutered your ability to argue outside of that bubble.
fedFed No.12376
>>12373I'd like to add that Fascism as a whole is based around obfuscation and filibustering the point.
What is Marxism when reduced to its most simple form? That distinct classes exist. That these classes are in conflict with one another. That Capitalism has reduced these classes to an "ownership" class (the bourgeoisie) and a "laboring" class (the proletariat). The Marxist sides with the proletariat because he believes that once the proletariat defeats the bourgeoisie, class society can be eliminated.
What is Nazism reduced to its most simplified form? There's a race of superhumans known as Aryans. Germans are the purest descendants of that superhuman warrior race. Yet in spite of being the "best warriors" it's enslaved first by "weak, sniveling, conniving Jews" and then defeated in battle (twice!) by people that are "subhuman." The Jews simultaneously run the banks and big finance, but also the revolutionary movements opposing the banks and big finance (all this in spite of the fact that Hitler never killed a single ultra-rich Jewish banker). Oh, and "degeneracy" is a thing that somehow "weakens society" by making people vaguely effeminate; in spite of there never having been a historical civilization on the planet that fell due to an overabundance of fembois.
Did I miss anything?
>>12375Didn't see the post, but debates on the internet usually become shitflinging contests of two faggots who aren't discussing anything, but feel obligated to keep posting "to get the last word in."
I made my thread to critique /pol/, I've yet to see any substantial defense of them.
No.12377
>>12376Let me actually take the trollerskates off. You seem cool.
Could it be possible people take pol at face value and far, far, FAR especially when comparing this place directly to them, too seriously when it's just a bunch of banter and people venting over being upset they're stuck in the very same power structure ran by the very same people?
fedFed No.12378
>>12377>It’s just a joke, bro, we don’t actually want to gas all the jews and joggers if we had our druthers. And you say you’ve never been on /pol/
No.12379
>>12378I said I never read either. You should probably stop believing what drunken shitpost you read of mine to bait out people who have gigantic egos and see a soft target.
fedFed No.12381
>>12380Based uyghur laser anon
fedFed No.12382
>>12377So your argument from what I understand is that /pol/ itself isn't serious, it's more or less a form of venting that people are taking too seriously. Feel free to correct my if I'm misunderstanding you.
While I agree that /pol/ has no small amount of people venting (its kind of a rubber band for how insufferably woke the mainstream is) it can become an addiction. I've seen how it affects people. I believe it was the Christchurch shooter that covered his rifle in /pol/ tier memes, yeah? Plus, the Q-Anon insanity started on /pol/ as well, and you only need a brief peak at /r/QAnonCasualties to see the overall negative effect its had on people's lives.
While my OP is that /pol/ itself is impotent when it comes to affecting large scale political change, I don't believe it's incapable of causing harm. If anything, its had a lot of deadly consequences.
I'd compare it to a drug addiction. Sure, if someone takes bump of cocaine now and again, at a party or the like, it isn't too terrible. But to do it day-after-day, month-after-month, it consumes you. Your original personality shrivels, and you emerge this hateful little creature.
/pol/'s constant hysteria is addicting enough on its own, it draws people in time after time, and I believe it can warp someone into a monster. I think that kind of mentality should be challenged, if not for the safety of other people, then for the sanity of the /pol/fags themselves.
No.12383
>>217646>>217627>>12380That's cool and all, but what's the point of posting that in this thread?
No.12384
>>12382>So your argument from what I understand is that /pol/ itself isn't serious, it's more or less a form of venting that people are taking too seriously. Feel free to correct my if I'm misunderstanding you.That is indeed my argument. Oldfags understand you meme or you get meme'd and I believe we see a large quantity of people getting meme'd by taking what amounts to /b/ with politics way too seriously.
>While I agree that /pol/ has no small amount of people venting (its kind of a rubber band for how insufferably woke the mainstream is) it can become an addiction. I've seen how it affects people. I believe it was the Christchurch shooter that covered his rifle in /pol/ tier memes, yeah? Plus, the Q-Anon insanity started on /pol/ as well, and you only need a brief peak at /r/QAnonCasualties to see the overall negative effect its had on people's lives.I agree but I also believe this place radicalized people as does Facebook and Twitter. We can't stop people from assembling in their preferred communities but we shouldn't fear the entirety of the community because some mentally ill people will fly off the handle. What they're introduced to can exacerbate it and at that point I personally believe the argument moves towards liability and if we should shut down any platform deemed dangerous as well as how that door being opened might be abused.
It also plays upon you either meme or get meme'd. Imagine being a shitposter that started the Q hype. You have hundreds of thousands of retards and boomers worshipping your shitposts.
>While my OP is that /pol/ itself is impotent when it comes to affecting large scale political change, I don't believe it's incapable of causing harm. If anything, its had a lot of deadly consequences.I wholly agree but when we apply this to pol, we're also offering the opportunity to apply it to communities at large online. I distrust authority pretty strongly despite the fed fag because I don't think the powers that be wield it to protect us.
>I'd compare it to a drug addiction. Sure, if someone takes bump of cocaine now and again, at a party or the like, it isn't too terrible. But to do it day-after-day, month-after-month, it consumes you. Your original personality shrivels, and you emerge this hateful little creature./pol/'s constant hysteria is addicting enough on its own, it draws people in time after time, and I believe it can warp someone into a monster. I think that kind of mentality should be challenged, if not for the safety of other people, then for the sanity of the /pol/fags themselves.
Is this a pol thing or an arguing with people online thing that can be observed across the internet?
fedFed No.12385
>>12384You are an interesting fellow. Interesting indeed
No.12386
>>12346>What do you mean by fishhooking? The western left uses ultraleft critiques of the 20th century to rationalize liberalism in the 21st as it has a confrontation with the populism of the nation-state under globalization
For example it will falsify any working class angle to this populism using theories about the labor aristocracy, then turn around and use race-class synthesis to suggest we need democratic revolution as a precondition for an eventual socialist one
>Also why do you assume that populism makes a distinct political movement. Liberal intellegentsia thinks they do, but there is hardly any evidence.Mostly because I think current populism resembles past forms in the 19th and 20th century stretching from the KMT to William Jennings Bryan to Bolivarians and Narodniks to the peasant socialist SRs
>What did he mean by this?The left doesn't have a problem with reproducing capitalism so long as it is in some way democratizing under the theory that capitalism needs to exhaust itself of this trend before a sense of exploitation and class consciousness sets in. We need to dissolve the nation state in order to reveal the antagonism between international capital and labor, which means liberalism is currently still progressive
So the issue with populism isn't that it reproduces capitalism, but the wrong kind
>What connection are you trying to make?So long as globalization is in crisis due to the rot of the nation state, the left will default to supporting liberalism as still progressive, even in an imperialist state that just achieved post communist unipolarity
ssnpSSNP No.12387
>>11465>where Fascists attempt to organize in the modern day, their orgs fall apart due to infighting and backstabbing.oh my god the irony
do you seriously think posting shit on the internet and patting eachother on the back is going to fucking do anything? the funniest thing that both of you do is simply participate and then go and vent when you inevitably see the problems that come with this failed experiment of greed and hubris which we call a functioning society. 4chan's /pol/ is impotent. Every /pol/ board on the fucking internet is impotent.
THAT INCLUDES THIS ONE, YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!
"Nazis" on the internet only do as much as skinheads: they pick off the weakest people in a society and ensure they stand out so when it comes time to cull the reactionaries, they'll be in plain sight. What you fail to realize is that you've been pulled into the same fucking trap. You stand out. You are a weird faggot and whether or not you actually pass on your beliefs is irrelevant because you will remain a "weird faggot" just like your beloved lolcow Nazi incels who you can't stop slobbering over.
The truth that no one is willing to face is that your beloved fringe cultural icons are in it for money. Your actions on the internet have no real-world effect, and you are simply lying to yourselves as an escape from a life which you think is monotonous. You don't actually bring up any grievances other than social ones at any time. BOTH of you don't. The mental illness prevalent in a dying society is not a problem in of itself which can be fixed, it is a symptom. It is only natural that people would be disgusted by it, whether that means they have a general dislike towards people who chase their own doom through frivolous, meaningless and short-lived "pleasure" or people who want to kill or upend millions because they believe it will be some sort of saving grace for something long dead.
Calling strangers comrades on the internet will never gain you support from the people you need to convince to help you overthrow the current government and install a communist regime. Just like screaming about and at black people on the internet won't make them go up in fucking smoke and usher in some nonsense "ethnostate" that wouldn't exist outside of Amish people in the fucking dakotas due to constant, non-stop mixture for centuries and no cultural tradition being passed on.
Most of you either haven't grown up or quite simply can't. You are all being successfully contained on the fringes of society because you believe that simply talking with people in your extremely limited social circles is some huge contribution working to accomplish a bigger goal which you have no real foresight of. What you must realize is that anarchy is a state, not a political ideology, and it is simply chaos acting as a buffer to allow a naturally selective hierarchy to take place. There are many ways in which you can accomplish this, but you have to get rid of this premonition that it will all go smoothly. And that sure as hell won't come from just talking to strangers on the internet.
Find five people you can trust, figure out how to fend for yourself in any given situation. If you are young, understand that whatever purpose you are trying to find is not going to be here, it is with those who surround you. The internet is a tool used to manipulate people, not organically bring them together, so don't be so naïve in thinking you will find your brothers in arms anywhere on the web. GET OUT OF HERE!
No.12388
>>12386>For example it will falsify any working class angle to this populism using theories about the labor aristocracyI don't that's necessarily true. The western left is pretty hostile to the concept of a Labour Aristocracy, simply because that would mean they would have to accept that they are useless. What I do however see is that this so called "populism" is laughed at, because it doesn't really mark a shift in power. In essence you have right-populism that is a revitalizing of old domestic industrial capital and left-populists that try to reestablish a sort keynesian social democratic concensus like in the post-war years.
>then turn around and use race-class synthesis to suggest we need democratic revolution as a precondition for an eventual socialist oneCan you give specific examples. I don't think I have seen this one
>Mostly because I think current populism resembles past forms in the 19th and 20th century stretching from the KMT to William Jennings Bryan to Bolivarians and Narodniks to the peasant socialist SRsI can see your point. But in the end these movements can still be categorised as Socialist/Nationalist etc rather than populist. Populism seems to be more a style than a coherent ideology. I doubt there will be a movement in the future that will run under the banner of populism. We live in unstable times, and unhappiness with the status quo and "globalization" is a natural consequence of the contradictions of capitalist society. Populist sentiments are popular, but they are only able to channel broad unrest into some vague boogeyman. They can't last long, because a coherent movement like Marxism, or Fascism will form sooner of later
>The left doesn't have a problem with reproducing capitalism so long as it is in some way democratizing under the theory that capitalism needs to exhaust itself of this trend before a sense of exploitation and class consciousness sets inI guess thats true for some currents. Left-Accelerationist for example. But Social Democracy doesn't think so, and Leninists don't think so as well. They are either content with Keynesian Capitalism or are actively struggling for Revolution. Those that are actively advocating for exhausting the capacities are rare imo.
>We need to dissolve the nation state in order to reveal the antagonism between international capital and labor, which means liberalism is currently still progressive I wouldn't call it progressive anymore, but destructive. Liberalism in principle also isn't against Nation states since they were the reason for them in the first place. They just aren't neede anymore in the age of global capital.
>So the issue with populism isn't that it reproduces capitalism, but the wrong kind Yes, certainly. Both Left- and Right-Populism advocate for states of capitalism that are not only hindering to reveal the antagonism of labor and capital(idk about right-populism though, since their form of capitalism might actually be better in showing the contradiction), but are also not possible to reproduce currently.
Unless you show me how Populism would be better in laying bare the contradictions.
>So long as globalization is in crisis due to the rot of the nation state, the left will default to supporting liberalism as still progressive, even in an imperialist state that just achieved post communist unipolarityThe western left is plagued by identity politics. Anarchism is pretty much openly Liberal and Leninism is in a stalemate. I personally don't think Populist movements are any coherent movement. Most of them pander to big tent Socialist, Liberal, Reactionary blocs in the end. I don't really understand why you advocate for "populism" though. Do you think it will be better in showing the contradictions between capital and labor?
No.12389
>>12332>>12332>If you want to claim that National Socialism represents a "meaningful step" in western philosophy, you better have the fucking balls to prove that statement.One of the oldest questions in western philosophy, seemingly answered at some points and at others left unknown, is as to what exactly a human being is "meant to do" in his life.
The question as to what is objectively "good" and "bad".
To answer this question in the modern context, one might begin by asking what exactly a human being "is" on its most basic level.
And to this end one may in turn ask where exactly the being originated from, as its origin may shed light on its nature and in turn its purpose.
In the case of the human being the origin is now, for the first in human history, actually known.
It comes in the form of the fathers sperm meeting the mothers egg, the genes within mixing and mutating, resulting in a third cell.
All that a human being is, comes from the genetic material of this third cell.
From its limbs, to its sex organ to its brain and the consiousness which rises there in.
Ergo we can say that a human being is objectively first and foremost a genetic organism
And as such?
We can say that whether a human life has purpose or not is determined upon the basis of the function of its genes as it is defined objectively on this basis.
In the case of genes the function of genes is reproduction, and as such the reproduction of one genes is the fullfiment of ones purpose and the preservation of ones self to the fullest possible degree.
All that which aids the procreation of ones genes can be objectively understood to be "good"
and all that which hinders it objectively understood on this basis to be "Bad"
The understanding of this and implemenation as political and personal philosophy being National Socialism.
>>12334>>Marxism misunderstands and infact misreprsents the human condition.>[citations needed]Marxism works off the enlightenment era assumption that man is first and foremost a rational unmoored self interested ego, completely independent from and equal to his fellow in all meaningful regards without inherent morality or purpose.
The entire basis of class consiousness is predicate upon this assumption.
As human beings are in reality biological organisms motivated largely by their evolutionary drives (which their cultures and hierachies are infact a manifestation of)
Marx misunderstands humanity and as such misunderstands both how they will act and how they OUGHT to act given their biological and inherently tribalistic nature.
We are not pleasure seeking egos interested foremost in our own "material interest"
We are infact genes who manifested consiousnesses for the sake of their preservation, both in our own person and in others, and this explains often enough why parents sacrifice for their children and why soldiers sacrifice for their "nation."
All of this is a result of the long arm of evolutionary phycology
And while it isn't really Marx's FAULT that he didnt know about evolutionary phycology (he wrote right around the same time Darwin was formulating the initial theory)
It does mean Marx was wrong, largely as a result of the time he wrote in, in his conceptualization of human nature.
Not in the way liberterian autists argue mind you,
as they to argue on the same enlightenment era egoist frame work in an even MORE explicit and unrepentant manner,
But rather in a way regarding the biological nature of man and the inherent impulses and infact purpose which manfiest there in.
No.12390
>>12387Awful lot of whining. I post on here for fun and I’m a member of a party that’s over a hundred years old. You’d have a point if I ever tried to argue that leftypol is the nexus for a revolutionary movement, which I didn’t.
No.12391
>>12389Since you actually earnestly tried to respond I’ll type up a response after work tonight.
No.12392
>>12388>The western left is pretty hostile to the concept of a Labour Aristocracy, simply because that would mean they would have to accept that they are uselessThey've adopted not only that theory, but the settler colonial one as well
They don't accept they, the middle class, are useless because they are interested in institutions
The left is more concerned with rurals than the middle class, the labor aristocracy and settler colonialism is used to explain the gap between the latter suburban and urban types and the former.
>What I do however see is that this so called "populism" is laughed at, because it doesn't really mark a shift in power. In essence you have right-populism that is a revitalizing of old domestic industrial capital and left-populists that try to reestablish a sort keynesian social democratic concensus like in the post-war yearsPretty much, but it shouldn't be laughed at. It's challenging what the western left isn't able to
I think its anti imperialist
>>12388>Can you give specific examples. I don't think I have seen this oneArguments over the electoral reform or surrogate democratic party reveal that position. You see it in the left and liberals after 2016, a belief that unless we vote blue colonialism will not be held at bay
>>12388>Do you think it will be better in showing the contradictions between capital and laborI dont know if it's better at it but it's the closest thing to a force showing it
But it's more accurately a division over globalization, not capital.
ssnpSSNP No.12393
>>12389Okay, back. Gonna be kind of brief because I've got some vidya gaems with buddy to get to. Your argument seems built on the naturalism fallacy (I.E. Nature = "Good") but let's not forget humans are nature's paradox. As the only form of intelligent life that we're aware of, we've taken ourselves out of nature and all the biological imperatives that come with it. You can say that our goal is to carry on our genes, but the truth is we have free will and can voluntarily choose not to.
But even accepting that logic for a minute, by its very nature it destroys Nazism. The iron law of nature is not, as some "Darwinists" misstate, the survival of "the fittest." Rather all evolutionary biology is rooted in
adaptation. The creature that survives is the one most able to adapt to its environment. To, in essence, diversify itself. Throughout life, from tiny flowers to mighty dinosaurs, everything ends up changing. When a species stops changing, it becomes an evolutionary dead end.
Look at Nazism; if it were really obsessed with passing on genes to the next generation, then it wouldn't have its obsession with "racial purity." After all, even if the whitest scandinavian had a child with the darkest african, the child would still inherit genes from
both of its parents, even if darker skin is the dominant gene. However, Nazism
doesn't care about that. Instead it ascribes "cleanliness" and "dirtyness" to certain races and peoples. It tries its damnedest to preserve its supposed "racial purity" by ruthlessly calling diversity.
But its another evolutionary truth that homogeneity in genetics ultimately leads to sterility, just look at what happened to the Aristocrats of Europe with their obsession with "blood purity!"
Rather than enhancing the fertility of German society, Nazism sterilized it. "Degenerate" art was banned. "Dirty" races were exterminated. The end result of all of that was an ultimately sterile society; one that could produce no art, no great works, and ultimately had its genes "dirtied" by foreign soldiers when they lost the war.
Nazism isn't a philosophy based around life. Its impotent. Sterile. Much like Hitler himself. Its violently obsessed with purity which is a betrayal of biological reality. It's, if anything, a philosophy of death.
But you know what
is a philosophy that would allow mankind to continue to pass on their genes? Marxism-Leninism. That's the only political philosophy on the planet that sees man as more than a commodity, that opens itself to the world, to life itself, and embraces it.
No.12394
>>12393>>12393> Your argument seems built on the naturalism fallacy (I.E. Nature = "Good")Common misconception and infact a forgivably understable one.
National Socialism is based around the understanding of the function of biological organsisms being the origin of their morality; not their nature.
There are a great deal of things a human being may be predisposed to do by virtue of his genes or enviroment (such as excessive alhohal use, self harm or homosexuality) which are none the less objectivelly immoral as they undermine the survival and reproduction of ones genes.
Just because you are morn with a mental ilnnes that predisposes you to serial murder does not serial murder in your case is moral (in so far as you are capable of consious action)
>but let's not forget humans are nature's paradox. As the only form of intelligent life that we're aware of, we've taken ourselves out of nature and all the biological imperatives that come with it.I'm honestly curious if you actually believe this how in the hell you think Marxist Socialism is ever going to arise??
As Marxist Socialism is, after all, first and foremost predicated upon the appeal to material conditions of the working class.
If the material conditions of the working class (which are necessairily biological in character given that the material the workers are made of is bio-matter, responding to stimulous over time) are not objectively important how would you be able to say that Marxist Socialism was the inevitably product of a capitalist economy?
Just through argumentation (Which will necessairily by your frame work be inherntly baseless) and emotional appeal given in hopes of calling workers to the banner of your cause???
Granted i have put the words of this response in your mouth to some extent,
But IF that is the fundimental basis of world view it seems pretty inherently idealistic my dude.
No real scientific study of history to speak of.
>You can say that our goal is to carry on our genes, but the truth is we have free will and can voluntarily choose not to.Yes anon we have free will
We can also choose to blow our brains out, throw ourselves from tall buildings and cover ourselves in gassoline light on fire.
If you accept free will (as Marx very arguably didnt given his largely determinist philosophy) the only real question is what we OUGHT to do.
If we cannot answer that question all answers are equally valid
Their would be no quantifyable or objective way in which your view would be superior to even the most brainless "Racist" Liberterian Alt-Right Incel.
>But even accepting that logic for a minute, by its very nature it destroys Nazism. The iron law of nature is not, as some "Darwinists" misstate, the survival of "the fittest." Rather all evolutionary biology is rooted in adaptation.You know its funny anon,
and I dont want to sound TO dismissive saying it,
But that is literally the exact argument my creationist parents made to me when I went through my "le epic edgy athiest" phase around 12.
Anyway, moving on.
>The creature that survives is the one most able to adapt to its environment. To, in essence, diversify itself. Throughout life, from tiny flowers to mighty dinosaurs, everything ends up changing. When a species stops changing, it becomes an evolutionary dead end.Anon i am sincerely curious who actually taught you this?
Without trying to sound like TO much of a dick,
you are aware single celled organisms are still a thing correct??
Crocodiles as basically the same genetic form as they were 200,000,000 years ago, and out lived by 10s of millions many other animals (including the dinasaurs) who much more thoroughly adapted to changes in their enviroment.
You are to some extent right one point, namely the implied point of the common understanding of evolution being an autistic upward trajectory towards an "ubernmenc" or apex preditor or some shit.
This is really just based more then anything on a misunderstanding of what is meant by "Fittest;" which is usually believed to refer to the some superior phisical quality on the part of the organism.
In reality what "Survival of the Fittest" means is survival of that which is "Most well fit" to the conditions of the world as it exists.
Humans for instance, adapaptable and consiouss as they are could all die out tommorow in result of nuclear war.
The cockroach however, despite having existed in the same form far longer then humans and also being far less phisisically superior by most human estimation would none the less have been proven to objectively superior to humanity as a species given its continued survival in our absesne.
>Look at Nazism; if it were really obsessed with passing on genes to the next generation, then it wouldn't have its obsession with "racial purity." After all, even if the whitest scandinavian had a child with the darkest african, the child would still inherit genes from both of its parents, even if darker skin is the dominant gene. Yes but if both parent share some genes then the more genetic material of both gets passed on to the next generation, which causes those who breed within in race to be more evolutionary succesful then those who breed without as more of their genetic material is passed on
(Before it is brought up, incest is also immoral under National Socialism as the act causes genetic mutations which in turn alter the gene pool and also produce children which are incapable of survival via defect)
>However, Nazism doesn't care about that. Instead it ascribes "cleanliness" and "dirtyness" to certain races and peoples. It tries its damnedest to preserve its supposed "racial purity" by ruthlessly calling diversity.Anon,
Have you ever actually read any major work written by a National Socialist?
>Rather than enhancing the fertility of German society, Nazism sterilized it.How So?
>"Degenerate" art was banned. Which cause the genetic sterilization of society how?
Litterally the same point of western liberals used to make of the USSR my dude.
>"Dirty" races were exterminated.Fairly objectively untrue given that the term "holocaust survivor" is a thing, its farely clear they didnt actually EXTERMINATE any race.
But again,
How does this relate to genetic reproduction?
>The end result of all of that was an ultimately sterile society;Their birth rates litterally and quantifyably shot up…
> one that could produce no artAnon you are aware that the third riech litterally comissioned aritsts and skuplters correct??
>no great worksSuppose it depends on what one considers "great" but i find the restoration of the Germany economy under hitler (which if you disagree with i'd be happy enough to debate in its own right) fairly considerable
>and ultimately had its genes "dirtied" by foreign soldiers when they lost the war.To your credit,
At least you have ONE point which is directly related to your thesis lol.
To your point,
This is litterally the same thing as saying that given the fact that China, Vietnam and most "Marxist" nations the world over now whore their own populations out as slave labor in sweat shops to multi-billion dollar corporations that some how Marixsm; which is doctrinally opposed to these things, somehow supports them "subconsiously."
You can say the third riech failed just like the USSR failed; both reduced to pitiful losses and the destruction of what they held dear.
But the rape of women and children in berlin no more discredits National Socialism then Sweat Shops of the "peoples republic of China" discredit socialism.
The degree to which Marxism allows private property and wage labor is the degree to which it by definition is not Marxist socialism
And the degree to which a state fails to value the genetic procreation of its people is the the degree to which it is not National Socialist.
>Nazism isn't a philosophy based around life. Its impotent. Sterile. Much like Hitler himself. Its violently obsessed with purity which is a betrayal of biological reality. It's, if anything, a philosophy of death.Anon if the justification you have for this position is merely the end of WWII then socialism is, inherently, an ideology of wage labor and slavery to international mega corporations
As represented in the current state of east asia and Russia itself today.
>But you know what is a philosophy that would allow mankind to continue to pass on their genes? Marxism-Leninism. That's the only political philosophy on the planet that sees man as more than a commodity, that opens itself to the world, to life itself, and embraces it.Marixms-Lenninism doctrinally and definitionally sees human beings as nothing more then material agents of history.
If you think the ideology is about "carring" for people who need to read Marx's critiques of the Utopian Socialists.
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