No.1840[Last 50 Posts]
This thread is for the discussion of infrared and their heterodox view of Marxism-Leninism.
Infrared is a collective group, with Haz being the leader(? or atleast the one in control of their youtube/twitter/etc.)
From my observation they draw a lot of influences from Martin Heidegger, Aleksandr Dugin, Alexandre Kojève, Jacques Lacan, Nick Land, Slavoj Zizek and so on and so on.
>What's this guys deal?-Anglo man bad
-Marxism is NOT a western ideology
-Merkel is a based anti-imperialist
-socialism is when china does stuff
-we already live in socialism
-socialism is actually like feudalism
-O N T O L O G I C A L
Youtube Channel -
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl63ZOm_bepvwoKjw24rogATwitter -
https://twitter.com/ShowInfrared No.1841
no, just another fucking schizo fandom like with rafiq.
No.1842
Can andybody:
<nail down a concrete position/policy that defines their ideology
<explain what exactly the appeal is (other than novelty/memes)
No.1843
>>1842Marxist-Hazist thought is not to be understood nor studied but lived.
No.1844
>>1842>nail down a concrete position/policy that defines their ideologyEurasian-marxism, maupianism, Bookchinism
<explain what exactly the appeal is (other than novelty/memes)he noticed us idklol
No.1845
>>1843Unironically this hahahahaha.
From what I understand, the idea is that there is a worker "geist" that must be channeled for real change. Marxism is just the ordering of that geist, it shouldn't be applied to the geist.
For example if we take a WSWS article I was laughing at in another thread:
>What the workers do, what those of you in the audience decide to do, is the critical issue. The [burger trotksyists] can advance and fight for a revolutionary socialist program. But that program must be taken up by the working class. From what I understand, this exemplifies the failure of western marxists to "get" the marxist project. This is like the most vulgar form of imposition of marxist dogma to the masses. Infrared's criticism is that basically all western socialists do this to some degree.
No.1846
Is this a sex cult? I have done zero investigation.
No.1848
>Dugin
>Hidenigger
Dugin is a fed, both are spooky idealists
No.1850
This belongs in /IG/, why the fuck does every random youtuber deserve a thread? Let alone one that has like <500 subs.
TBH they come off like a bunch of schizos trying to drag Dengism halfway to communization theory
No.1851
>>1850all interner/trash/ belongs in
>>>/b/ tbh
but at the same time you'll probably get lots of porn
No.1852
>>1850>why the fuck does every random youtuber deserve a thread?C'mon, Haz is promoting this board. I think its OK.
No.1853
>>1848Don't forget
>Nick Land>Ayn Rand No.1854
>>1852didn't he literally say fuck leftypol though, that its retarded and hes never coming here again?
Besides im not gonna suck off some youtuber just because he lurks or even if he streams the site to his dozens of viewers
No.1855
>>1854His streams and reactions to this board are comedy gold, it's much better than him name-dropping /leftypol/. He already developed personal feuds with some users here.
ddrDDR No.1858
>>1850>>1857The mods seemed okay with it, and everytime they stream it seems to derail the whole /IG/ thread. Just hide the thread if you don't care, this thread is to try to grapple with these new schizo insights.
No.1859
>>1840>Heidegger, Dugin, Kojève, Lacan, Land, ZizekIt's like they took every idealist hack meme philosopher they could name off the top of their heads the and mashed them together into a frankensteinian bastardization of Marxism. Sounds like just another bunch of gross dorks in capes larping on the internet.
No.1861
>>1855>His streams and reactions to this board are comedy goldAgree! He brought so much fun into this place, he turned shitposting into a multimedial spectacle!
No.1863
>>1860They would just call each other retards for an hour or three.
No.1864
>>1862I'm not sure who actually controls that account tbh, which janny from here if any
No.1865
>>1841why do anti-Rafiq fags always resort to the blandest ad hominem? you fucks never engage with anything he actually says, just dismiss it as “schizo”. probably because you don’t understand basic continental philosophy vocabulary.
No.1866
What if the real Communist movement was the friends we made along the way?
No.1867
>>1865because I'm jaded by his brain meltingly stupid ecology shit and it turned me off him completely
No.1868
>>1867that's because retards use it to argue for their right wing interpretation of global warming because they don't understand it. nothing he says is even remotely insane if you actually read it.
No.1869
>>1862This is not an ideological endorsement (far from it) but rather a shout-out to a really small channel which seems to "stimulate" a significant part of leftypol's community (which can be seen as a good development for this site's activity), just like when I retweet Jason or Caleb.
No.1870
>Anon: do you like cockshott?
>Haz: no
No.1871
>>1840>-Anglo man bad -Marxism is NOT a western ideology -Merkel is a based anti-imperialist -socialism is when china does stuff -we already live in socialism -socialism is actually like feudalism -O N T O L O G I C A LIs this eurocommunism combined with dengism? kek
No.1872
>>1870Makes sense because he's anti anglo and probably sees Cockshott as a left-positivist or something
No.1873
>>1872I think it's more his Heideggerianism that pushes him to reject Cockshott's empirically focused Marxism.
No.1874
>>1870Even the best have some flaws
sandinistaSandinista No.1876
>>1869I see no problem, I just wanted to share this tweet. (And I also don't agree with Infrared's ideology)
No.1877
>>1840their episodes with cockydooody and fan wennan are good
No.1878
>>1872Cockshott is a positivist. it's as clear as day in everything he says about French and German philosophy.
No.1881
>>1880holy shit first pic made me kek
No.1882
>>1878Cockshott is something slightly more nuanced than a positivist, might make an effortpost explaining his stance later
No.1883
>>188050% Based
30% schizo
20% BDE
100% Unstoppable
sandinistaSandinista No.1885
>>1884hes the lefts version of a lolcow, but unlike Jason who sortof knows hes a meme this guy is schizo enough to think hes smart
No.1889
>>1887>>1880Is this guy gonna become the schizo/ML/dengist-eurocom version of Vaush/Destiny?
BTW the whole destiny/vaush inspired MS paint bullshit is lazy, if you want a diagram do it in a slideshow presentation thats premade.
I'm not spending my precious remaining time on this earth watching some dude make stick figures. have some production values and brevity you hacks
No.1891
>>1887'anglo' has seriously gone too far as a meme
No.1892
>>1857and also send /IG/ to /b/
No.1893
>>1862jannies being absolute retards as usual
No.1894
he called eugenics-kun a retard so he's based as far as I'm concerned.
No.1895
>>1887we live in a autism box
No.1898
>>1896>your ideology hasn't accomplished anything (allegedly, I guess he doesn't know about the history of class struggle in the west?)>all you do is read books and get too attached to dogma>therefore, you should listen to my brand new ideology that definitely hasn't accomplished anything yet by my own criterion>also if you disagree with me you're an idiot who doesn't understand the readingThis is an open and shut case of projection tbqh.
>You have a duty and obligation to give people the benefit of the doubt.>Who do I give the benefit of the doubt?>Libertarians>Nazbols>Dugin>Nick LandAnd yet they don't give the benefit of the doubt to anybody who is mildly skeptical of them from an actually left wing perspective. What about these guys is actually left wing other than choosing to label themselves ML?
Has he commented on historical materialism? It sounds like he doesn't agree with it, since he's diagnosing the left's problem in the west as dogmatic ideology rather than anything material like atomization or precarity getting in the way of workers' power.
No.1899
>>1896>>1898>therefore, you should listen to my brand new ideology that definitely hasn't accomplished anything yet by my own criterion>also if you disagree with me you're an idiot who doesn't understand the reading>This is an open and shut case of projection tbqh.basically. He's right to say western MLs haven't accomplished anything but then he proposes his brand new meme ideology. thats why he has to say "in the west", like the west is the entire world. The reason ML became popular is because it succeeded in overthrowing capitalism in Russia and China and like 45% of the planet at one point.
This guy should come back when he organizes a party that does the same, until then his meme ideology is even more disconnected from the material reality of workers movement than the dogmatic MLs he criticizes because at least at
some point historically ML actually worked as opposed to his bongrip abstract contemplations.
No.1900
>>1899IDK maybe he does shit IRL but so far it looks like he's less useful than my local DSA chapter.
No.1901
>>1897No matter what you think of them ideologically, in terms of style and condensed autism Haz and his collaborators are the closest /leftypol/ will ever have to a YouTube content creator molded after their collective image. Even the people who hate him on here do not really hate him I think because he's objectively funny (intentionally or not) while having completely edgy exotic fringe beliefs.
Yet despite all that, he does actually seems to get renown guests on? He interviewed Fan Wennan who had an article written about him in the New York Times, and also did a livestream with Katya Kazbek, contributor on Supamodu. All while being under 500 subs.
ddrDDR No.1902
>>1901>He interviewed Fan Wennan who had an article written about him in the New York Times, and also did a livestream with Katya Kazbek, contributor on Supamodu. All while being under 500 subs.that…is strange and suspicious
No.1903
>>1901no idea who those people are
No.1904
>>1901>Haz and his collaborators are the closest /leftypol/ will ever have to a YouTube content creator molded after their collective image.A) We're a lot more coherent than these guys on a bad day.
B) There are multiple youtube content creators who post here, and have been for years.
No.1905
OK, I know what the problem with Haz is: He calls himself a marxist. I actually think he is a smart guy, but what he is doing, is creating a new philosophy/ideology. THere is nothing wrong with that and it is totally Ok to take elements from previous ideologies. But don't call yourself a marxist. What he is doing is like, calling yourself a Christian, but taking huge influence from Hinduism. Or calling yourself a Virgin, although you are in praxis a chad.
No.1907
>>1904I feel like other than the memes theres some quasi schizos
and maybe a janny who unironically like this guy but are too embarrassed to admit it. Possibly haz himself actually is behind some of the schizoposts here or a lurker
No.1908
>>1906>Oh fuck off. We are way better than this garbage.Haz isn't molded after our collective image, more like molded after the collective image of all our schizoposters combined
No.1909
>>1905Schizo sincretism with ML characteristics.
No.1910
>>1907I REALLY like his fucking energy tbh.
sandinistaSandinista No.1911
>>1910really? I think he comes off as an asshole. Vaush energy but more unhinged
and less theorylet tbf No.1912
>>1909>Schizo sincretism with ML characteristics.Basically, yes. But we must consider, that ALL ideologies are syncretisms. So is Marxism, which is founded on Hegel's dialectics and Feuerbach's materialism.
No.1913
>>1902They claim to have been connecting/networking for a while before they went public with their YouTube channel. I can't really deny that it feels very internationalist, there is a Mexican guy, some European guys, at least two Chinese and one Russian guy etc. - that their spokesman/leader turned out to be such a autistic unit makes it even more interesting.
ddrDDR No.1915
>>1913is haz a burger? cant place the accent
No.1916
>>1905This is a pretty good point tbh. He's deviated so far from Marx (and has basically no sign of Lenin at all) that it's comical to call himself an ML.
>>1907I think it's more that people are fascinated/intrigued. He carries himself as if what he says should be really compelling, and it's hard to parse what he's saying at times. It's an intoxicating mix. But if you actually sit down and try to understand it, it's kind of nonsensical.
>>1911Vaush does stick to a train of thought better which is kind of sad.
>>1915That or Canadian.
No.1917
>>1915If he is he's a traitor to his kind considering his pathological crusade against Anglos.
ddrDDR No.1918
>>1913>their spokesman/leader turned out to be such a autistic unitI have the feeling, that they all are quite autistic. I believe, Haz is the ideological mastermind behind Infrared, he created the ideology of "Infraredism" and the other guys are more or less his disciples.
No.1919
>>1916Yeah I have no idea why people compare his shtick to Vaush or Destiny. Destiny and Vaush are typical brainlet positivist "logical fallacy" debate bros who would Google something if they heard it for the first time then read out the first result as a proper response. Within their own logical self-imposed edifice Vaush probably feels coherent when he goes to sleep at night. Haz on the other hand comes over as very scatterbrained and eclectic.
ddrDDR No.1920
>>1910Same, the energy is a huge appeal, also the fact that they're a collective and not just Haz (although he seems to be the one taking the lead with this channel)
>>1915He is from america, but his roots are in some muslim country. I think Lebanon, but I could be wrong.
No.1921
>>1905Let me also add this: It makes from a dialectial perspective totally sense. He took marxism, but he modified it in such a heavy way, it is no longer marxism. The is the dialectical jump from quantity to quality. His "marxism" is a completely new beast.
No.1922
>>1919what exactly is wrong with positivism and why does it get such a bad rap?
Literally every hard science basically assumes vulgar positivism and it seems to get results since science and technology keep advancing. Isn't that proof of its correctness or at least usefulness?
No.1925
>>1923>inventedim waiting for him to drop the evola pill
No.1928
>>1922While there are ideological trenches, I think stuff like theoretical physics and astrophysics does not fall into the category of vulgar positivism. Law is an example that is completely positivist, and hilariously it's even self-aware of it (legal positivism is a subject taught at law school). Most bourgeois social science are positivist, vulgar economics is positivist.
ddrDDR No.1930
>>1915He lives in Michigan if I recall correctly.
No.1931
>>1915you can tell by his frequent typos that he is an esl, and is projecting his inability to master the chad anglo language on his viewers.
No.1933
>>1928How is for example, biology, chemistry, computer science, mathematics, physics (except theoretical physics) not vulgar positivist? Sure you can try to apply hegelianism or something to evolution but imo thats more like an analogy and not really needed to explain it
No.1934
>>1931>you can tell by his frequent typos that he is an eslPretty sure he's just retarded.
No.1935
>>1932Damn that trailer looks kinda good, but
>warner bros.I have no trust in this movie.
No.1936
>>1934ESLs usually have an accent this guy just sounds generic burger
No.1937
>>1932He's a complete retard and a revisionist.
No.1940
I kinda wish we had other members like Henry or Grayson on more. He's been streaming a lot lately and being very online.
No.1942
Haha didn’t even watch that video last night lol, haz my bro, my guy, fella, calling people a bitch on the internet fucking gay as hell fam lmao bitch you’re doing alright just cut the Dugin and turn it down a notch or 2 ay buddy
No.1943
>>1942>Haz, [just cut the Dugin]He made it explicitly clear that he's not a Dugin fan, but he shared a single (that is one [1]) video interview with Dugin he agreed with 100%, having to do with the USA not being "boss" ("bauws") anymore.
>>1938That's just Deleuze, picture related! (One of the things I disagree on with Infrared, btw, who seem to prioritize Deleuze & Guattari over Lacan & Freud.)
>>1933>How is for example, biology, chemistry, computer science, mathematics, physics (except theoretical physics) not vulgar positivist?You mention a series of sciences (and arguably
not a "science" – math), but you are missing the point entirely. By themselves (to talk in the abstract, in a vacuum) literally NOTHING is "positivist," for "positivism" is a PHILOSOPHICAL position (specifically: a position in the philosophy of science), not something that "naturally" emanates from these disciplines. (In other words: you don't know what you are talking about.)
>>1922>what exactly is wrong with positivism and why does it get such a bad rap?Start a different thread for this and I'll answer. Here we are kinda off topic / rambling.
>>1918>I have the feeling, that they all are quite autistic.t. autist
>>1916>if you actually sit down and try to understand it, it's kind of nonsensical.I watched like 20 hours of content from them and it does seem to me that it's a unified system of thought, although I'll give it to you that it's hard to detect this from random clips and so on, which is kinda their fault. (Their "what is Infrared" video is like 2 hours long, lol.)
>>1910Haz energy is epic.
>>1906Like it or not, Infrared actually created a network and the infrastructure to put out content in this unified format. This should be commended as an achievement.
Do I agree with 100% of their points? Absolutely not? Does this hinder me from seeing their value? NOPE.
>>1905>the gatekeeper of Marxism appeared>>1904>[leftypol is] a lot more coherent than these guys on a bad day.LOL, really?!
>>1899>This guy should come back when he organizes a party<NOOOOO! YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ORGANIZE A YOUTUBE CHANNEL BEFORE YOU HAVE A PARTY!!!!!!!!!>>1898>Has he commented on historical materialism? It sounds like he doesn't agree with it, since he's diagnosing the left's problem in the west as dogmatic ideology rather than anything material like atomization or precarity getting in the way of workers' power.I agree to a certain degree, but I'm pretty sure that InfraRed seems these (most visibly) ideological problems as rooted in material reality too.
>>1893no, you
>>1885>Infrared is lolcowYou either don't understand what Infrared is or what a lolcow is.
>>1878>Cockshott is a positivist.OBVIOUSLY not the case. He made a video where he explained "muh Science" via Badiou's "The Concept of Model". You have no idea what you are talking about.
>>18731. empiricism =/= positivism
2. using empirical data =/= empiricism
You have no idea what you are talking about.
>>1862based
>>1860yes
>>1859t. never read a book in his life
>>1840Most dishonest/baity OP imaginable.
lenin_capLenin Cap No.1945
>>1943>Infrared actually created a network and the infrastructure to put out content in this unified formatwhat fucking infrastructure? they literally just make videos and upload them youtube like anyone else
No.1946
>>1945>>1944>leninhat schizo <ONLY ONE USER CAN USE A CERTAIN FLAG TO POST UNDER(you)
>>1945>what fucking infrastructure?I'm not sure if you're aware of this fact, but getting 3 people to form a single group (whatever that may be)
is fucking hard. Now I look at Infrared videos and I see that they have like 8-12(?) different ethnicities and countrymen etc. on their stream, and I'm like "GOD DAMN, this must have took a lot of work!" In all honesty: I'm fugen jealous, dude. Imagine if VAUSH's channel started like so. Wouldn't you agree that this buildup would have been a fucking guarantee against Vaush pushing pro-anglo(/CIA) narratives 24/7 and him having a more nuanced view on international issues?
Infrared already achieved this, for fuck's sake. This is what DEFINES their potential.
>upload them youtube like anyone elseYou are missing the entire point. Yes, asshole, ANYONE can upload to Youtube, however, having an internationalist platform that is multi-ethnic DOES IN FACT give you the kind of communist strength that lacks with other channels.
What other channels? Well name any of these "breadtube" idiots, from Vaush, through Muke, to Shaun, and you'll see that one of their main problems is that they lack a POV that is outside their CNN/BBC.com comfort zone.
Yes, I'd definitely posit the following: however pre-developed, Infrared holds more potential than the above mentioned, only due to the fact that they are waaaaaay more international.
lenin_capLenin Cap No.1948
>>1943yeh but he called leftypol trash though, which means we should all jump on every one of his streams and harrass him, thus bringing his fan base here, he would probably be /ourguy/ considering his retardo hot takes and nazbol flirtations
No.1949
>>1890That didn't happen lol.
No.1951
>>1948>yeh but he called leftypol trash though<a user that first contacted a fucking shit-weaving forum called it "shit"brilliant analysis, dearest tripfag (10/10)
>which meansIt doesn't mean SHIT, and you know it.
>bringing his fan base hereThey have like 400 subs. What are you even talking about, schzio?
>>1949no shit
>>1950based
lenin_capLenin Cap No.1953
>>1951Attention is good. You have no mind for publicity. You are the one that likes his streams, so probably have an affinity with his fan base.
>he has like 400 subs so that is like as many people as visit this entire site, or half as much as BC had at peak. That is a few extra people. What is your issue?
No.1954
>>1953>What is your issue?Blowing this out of proportion?
lenin_capLenin Cap No.1955
>>1911he has anger issues but he actually gets mad at people who say retarded shit. Vaush just gets mad if you say anything anti-Democrat.
No.1956
>>1943>OBVIOUSLY not the case. He made a video where he explained "muh Science" via Badiou's "The Concept of Model". You have no idea what you are talking about.link? also just because he made a video explaining it it doesn’t mean he has a correct interpretation of it or an anti positivist view, just like his “critique” of Althusser.
No.1957
>>1956>link?sorry, you'll have to look up his vids one-by-one. (I'm not gonna do this for you.) However, here is his latest book (How the World Works) with his direct reference to Badiou's "The Concept of Model".
He literally mentions it here, and he literally has a separate vid where he shills it.
Q.E.D.: Cockshott is not a fugen positivist.
No.1958
Thanks for the maximally uninformative clips, OP.
>>1850>This belongs in /IG/, why the fuck does every random youtuber deserve a thread?>>1857>petition jannies to bumplock this thread or merge it into /IG/I agree with this.
No.1959
>>1864Who controls the /leftypol/ twitter account?
No.1961
>>1943Local contrarian support dumb shit again
No.1962
>>1954What you are? I just want to troll some sperg into giving us more users
No.1964
>>1963Shame on you for lowering the standing of this community in using official channels to promote this utter garbage.
No.1967
They actually seem to be based and breadpilled.
No.1968
>>1967they don't like cybernetics kind of a downer for me
No.1969
>>1896How are these ideas any different from those of the DSA? This view of "western" anti-imperialist Marxists as dogmatic is something you would expect from the types of college socialists advocating sending SAM missile launchers to Syrian rebels.
Shitting on Marxism-Leninism makes no sense, especially when you acknowledge the good China has done. How can you alledge that the left is dogmatic and then turn to Asians hanging up portraits of Mao Zedong? There are still large pictures of Stalin in China, it isn't some fusion of Heidegger and Kautsky
No.1970
>>1969>Shitting on Marxism-Leninism makes no sense, especially when you acknowledge the good China has done.They also claim to
be MLs.
No.1972
>>1969there's a difference between criticizing the mentality of other marxist-leninists (he is one) and trying to create crucifixion and witch-hunts over sexism like the DSA tries to do to prevent people from ever entertaining people to the left of them. Haz clearly doesn't give a fuck about engaging (or other people engaging) with people that don't share his views.
No.1973
>>1896I'd probably agree with him about a lot of things but his energy is too manic for me. Feels like I'm being trapped in the corner of a room at a party and can't get out. Maybe I'm just getting old. But I realize people can blow hot and that gets a reaction.
I listened to what he said though complaining about western MLs "making excuses" for not carrying out a successful revolution because we live in the "imperial core." Well, yes? Is revolution the product of subjective factors or objective historical forces? Or is it both? If you lived in the U.S. in the 20th century, the country was apart from a brief detour in the 1930s always "on the rise" in the world. If you were an American, who would tear that up for a socialist revolution?
Not many, unless they were excluded from it, which is why ML groups in their heyday were disproportionately black and immigrant. But the system has also made reforms at various stages. And for everyone else, there was the "American Dream" which meant that if you bought into this ideology and worked hard, you could build some wealth to pass down to your kids, buy a house and so on, and that gives you a stake in your society and its future. I think to believe you can just "will" a revolution into being without regard for objective conditions leads to ultra-leftist and commandist errors. That said, the relative decline of the U.S. in the world does appear to be creating a crisis for the American ideology.
No.1974
>>1899he's an ML. he's not shilling some brand new meme ideology. where are you getting this idea from?
No.1975
>>1899>The reason ML became popular is because it succeeded in overthrowing capitalism in Russia and China and like 45% of the planet at one point.Living off past successes is the logic of the bourgeois capitalist.
>>1961>too small for porky to target>too fast growing to crush>too big for porky to resistChoose no more than two
>>1974A fwe MLs really are just there for the jackboots.
No.1976
what do they mean by "we already live in socialism"?
these lads seem interesting and im very into that schizoid energy
No.1977
>>1976From what I took this is more of a provocation targeted at dogmatists. I think what they want to describe is the difference between capitalism of free competition in the 19th century and state monopoly capitalism in the imperialist stage, but it's all very scatterbrained as you say.
ddrDDR No.1978
>>1977hmm interesting
i get that youd want to make a distinction between """real""" capitalism and current capitalism, but it seems nonsensical to call that socialism
ill look into them more
No.1979
>>1977ignore these clowns and just read hudson instead
No.1980
>>1978Socialism in one bourgeoisie
No.1981
>>1980socialism in one person is the only way forward
No.1982
>>1981brb redistributing surplus in the loo
No.1983
after watching some of their youtube videos im honestly starting to really like some of their positions. dogmatism and this obsession with abstract ephemeral concepts we see from many corners on the left is awful if we ever want to achieve anything and their focus on the material and the lived experience of people in an international concept seems much more fruitful than calling everything you dont like revisionist.
No.1984
>>1983they are already ahead of 80% of this board by their views on philosophy alone
No.1985
>>1983>>1984samefag
probably infrared himself
No.1986
>>1984more accurate their knowledge about philosophy i guess, havent seen many leftists talking about dasein
although im not entirely sure if its a genuine insight or just mental masturbation since i havent read many of the works they reference
>>1985no to both
No.1987
>>1986>havent seen many leftists talking about daseinWhy would they? It's idealist nonsense
No.1988
>>1987this is exactly the kind of dogmatism im glad to see challenged
No.1989
>>1987How the fuck is it idealist? It literally refers to a framing of the human subject as something that is NOT an ideal. As something "being there," that actually operates in the world and becomes a subjectivity through existing, acting, participating. Have your contentions with Heidegger all you want, but don't just use words because the feel good in your genitals!
No.1990
>>1988>Dogmatism is when you reject IdealismYou do you. But don't challenge some Dogmatism here. You just put emphasis on something that isn't vital to Socialism
No.1991
>>1990>materialism is when you pretend idealism doesn't exist and doesn't govern action in the here and nowIf you can't work within multiple paradigms on their own terms without pledging fealty to one of them, it is you who are the pseud.
No.1992
>>1991>If you can't work within multiple paradigms on their own terms without pledging fealty to one of them, it is you who are the pseudNothing wrong with that. It just isn't Communist. And this leads to the Bastardization of Marxist Theory like Infrared does. Challenging Marxist Conceptions within a Framework that still is Marxist is good, but "Heidegerian Marxism" is nothing of that Sort
No.1993
>>1992>It just isn't CommunistI fail to see the problem here, but I'm not a totalist.
No.1994
>>1992It's not as if this is the world's newest synthesis though. Do you have any criticisms of the people who have attempted the Heidegger-Marx analysis previously?
No.1997
>>1996Because it's arrogant and porky.
No.1998
>>1995>Y'all pick ONE word and damned well stick with itOh, you're a casual? Don't worry. One day you will learn how all of these words are connected
No.1999
>>1998>my religion owns the word GodNot one narrative in your movement isn't directly adapted from evangelical Christianity.
No.2000
>>1840>Martin Heidegger, Aleksandr Dugin, Alexandre Kojève, Jacques Lacan, Nick Land, Slavoj Zizek Oh, they're a bunch of fascists pretending to be communists.
Discarded.
lenin_capLenin Cap No.2001
>>2000Do they actually take cues from Dugin? I always thought it was a meme because they take from Heidegger.
No.2002
>>2000>>2001All they said was they read their works because they aren't afraid of reading the bad evil stuff by the bad evil people.
No.2003
>>2002You can read who you want. I've read Mein Kampf (boring). But don't try to frame them as communists or proletarian theorists.
lenin_capLenin Cap No.2004
>>2003Where did anyone frame them as communist or proletarian theorists?
No.2007
>>2006>>Martin Heidegger<NOOO HE WAS A NAZI FOR A SHORT TIME EVEN THOUGH HE DENOUNCED IT LATER it was not "a short time", we have the black notebooks now, there's no reason to deny it. he was a committed nazi and then they lost the war.
No.2008
>>2007The black notebooks show a deeply indoctrinated man, so indoctrinated that he documented a bunch of pitiful attempts to reconcile his philosophy with his ideology in his notebooks. This isn't Carl Schmitt we're talking about here. That said, he only ever implicitly denounced nazism and never apologized.
Heidegger's pre-nazi and post war work has been taken by many leftist thinkers over the years (Kojeve, Marcuse, Jameson (ish)) and they revealed that, ironically, Heidegger may be more useful to leftists than to rightists. If you have an issue with these guys, it should be that they're MLs who almost exclusively reference the influences of the new left and its descendents!
No.2009
proposal
filter infrared to infrafed
No.2010
>>2006Yeah they're all fash or anti-communist (except maybe Lacan) sorry to spoil your fun.
lenin_capLenin Cap No.2011
>>2005>>2006>>2007>>2008Not to mention Heidegger's philosophy is perfectly compatible with the Nazis and was a significant part of the milieu that shaped the fascist turn in Germany at the start of the 20th century. Read Losurdo.
https://www.amazon.com/Heidegger-Ideology-War-Community-Death/dp/1573929107 No.2012
>>1999Huh? Are you trippin son?
No.2013
>>2011Based Losurdo does it again
lenin_capLenin Cap No.2015
For some reason they make their live streams unlisted so you can only find them in the playlist for them.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAJIhnd1mbiD4JdPj7DndVRj3UPN8PzQZ>>2009They seem more schizo than glowie though.
>>2001>>2002They've explicitly said they take ideas from at least Dugin and Land in their recent streams.
>>2010Doesn't Lacan consider homosexuality a perversion and non-traditional families to undermine muh western civilization? Here's an excerpt from an intro to Lacan I'm reading (more context is posted here >>>/b/10661 in the "anorectal violence" thread)
<More and more single women are deliberately having children, ostensibly rejecting the importance of triangulation (for example, the introduction of a third term in the mother-child dyad, an outside, a symbolic Other; or the institution of the paternal metaphor); and more and more lesbian couples are raising children, seemingly eschewing or downplaying the importance of the father. Combined with the de facto increase in the divorce rate and the consequent increase in the number of children being raised solely by their mothers, and with the growing antiauthoritarian attitude toward children among men (no doubt at least in part encouraged by certain modern-day feminist discourses), the paternal function seems to be in danger of extinction in certain social milieus.<Lacan does not claim that the paternal or father function—the instatement of a father figure in a role of authority beyond the mother—is the nec plus ultra of family structure. His discourse is not that of "family values," pitting Dan Quayle against Murphy Brown. Lacan does not assert that the father should be propped up in our society. Rather, he issues a warning: to reject the father's role, to undermine the father's current symbolic function, will lead to no good; its consequences are likely to be worse than those of the father function itself, increasing the incidence of psychosis. This is one of the things Lacan had in mind when, in 1971, he entitled Seminar XIX ". . . ou pire" (". . . or Worse"), one of the possible elided words being père ("father"). If we view the father as the lesser of two evils, to reject the father is to opt for the worse.<Lacan's challenge to discourses that encourage the elimination of the paternal function would run something like this: "Can something like the paternal metaphor—providing the fundamental link between signifier and signified, between language and meaning—be instated without the father as symbolic function? If so, how? If not, is there some other way to introduce an outside—that is, to triangulate the mother-child relationship and stave off psychosis? How can this be done without relying on the symbolic order and its ability to intercede in the imaginary, the world of rivalry and war? Doesn't one sex have to play the part of symbolic representative?"<Unless some other way of achieving the same effect is found—Lacan's work would seem to suggest—the practices that stem from such discourses run the risk of increasing the incidence of psychosis.Is Lacan some kind of arch-conservative, or is this guy wildly misrepresenting him?
No.2016
>>2015>They seem more schizo than glowie though.yes but that isn't low hanging fruit in pun form
No.2017
>>2016>yes but that isn't low hanging fruit in pun formThere's probably some kind of joke to be made about schizophrenics seeing things that aren't there and infrared light being outside the visible spectrum. Even without making that joke, their tagline from the about section on their channel says "Marxist-Leninist analysis beyond the visible spectrum" which is exactly how schizos see themselves.
No.2018
>>2017true but thats not really a pun. its more a witty retort.
No.2022
>>2019Aren't they westerners themselves? Or are they LARPing as Third worlders?
No.2023
>>2022Some are westerners, some are from elsewhere.
No.2024
>>2021Don't forget your ceremonial meth pipe
No.2025
Join the stream he is reacting to this thread
https://youtu.be/TxHGVmPhcBUHe will be addressing to all your criticisms
No.2026
>>2011So is Hegel, are we throwing out dialectics now?
No.2030
I posted this in another thread, in defense of Infrared.
Infrared is important, not because he is right or wrong. It is the anti-dogmatism of the (schizo if you want) proposals that they are offering, the unique reading that is not offered here, plus the good dose of lols. I don't give a shit if you "believe" them or not. I'm tired of sterility, both in theory and in praxis.
If your org's primary praxis has been selling newspapers for the last 50 years, fuck you.
If you were taught "idealism is when you close your eyes and wish for something, and you open them it's there", fuck your org too.
If you were taught "dialectical materialism is when you do experiments like science", fuck your shitty theory.
If you subscribe to the thought: "waste no time on Hegel, instead, let's jack off to these linear programming problems that will never be useful for you because the left is dead, also fuck trans amirite", fuck you and I hope your dick explodes.
If you thing "postmodernist theory is bad", you're being included in this shit.
If you have ANY criticism on others views but you haven't ever done anything IRL, shut the fuck up and pay attention.
Here's something special: whatever your take on Marx, marxism, praxis, or the left is, it is entirely insufficient and probably an embarrassment. Take your head out of your ass. This isn't a game to see who is smarter, or who can quote Marx the hardest.
We're here to learn, to shitpost, to have fun, and to change the world.
Nothing less than that.
No.2031
Be nice to Haz. They plan on taking on Breadtube and Vaush and all those radlibs. He's not your enemy.ddrDDR
No.2032
>>2031he should go debate vaush then
it would be very funny
No.2033
>>2032Vaush would never debate such a small tankie channel.
No.2034
>>2030good post, dogmatist retards and larpers do more to harm the left than any CIA agent
No.2035
>>2033I mean he did Hakim
No.2036
>>2033That's why he needs to grow. He says they have a master plan to grow really fast.
ddrDDR No.2037
I am now fully committed Marxist-Hazist! This is the anti-anglo ideology we need to transform the Zeitgeist of a world constrained by a dying Us/Anglo empire.
I would die for this man ideals, I have barely noticed the Truth and gone blind from it but now I can truly See.
Like the Apostle Paul.
No.2040
>>2038based crypto commie
No.2041
>>2038UNFATHOMABLY BASED
sandinistaSandinista No.2042
>>2039You do realize that continental philosophy has nothing to do with Anglos?
ddrDDR No.2043
He just came out in support of Jimmy Dore's #forcethevote.ddrDDR
No.2045
Who the fuck is "Markuuse" does he mean MarcuseddrDDR
No.2047
>he likes the CPUSA even though they have shitty politics
This guy's political takes are all very, very good.ddrDDR
No.2048
>>2046>>2047He used the CPUSA as an example of how corrupt American politics are. He doesn't like them at all
No.2049
>>2046>>2047i dont know if youre being intellectually dishonest or are just not very intelligent but he said absolutely nothing positive about them
No.2050
>>2048What? He said the US already has a communist party, of which he said that they have shitty politics but still command a lot of the old infrastructure rooted in unions and the theory that was developed within the last 100 years. I'll let Haz correct me if he reads this
ddrDDR No.2051
>>2049What this anon said
>>2050I mean maybe he thinks the CPUSA is bad, but if that's his position he is terrible at making that clear.
No.2053
>>2052Are we rising for real?
sandinistaSandinista No.2055
>yall come at this from an anglo, axiomatic point of view
<you can't be autistic AND schizophrenic. it's literally impossible.
No.2057
Based views on LGBT too.ddrDDR
No.2058
>>2050>still command a lot of the old infrastructure rooted in unionsHe too believes the Democratic Party is a Leninist party? Neat
>>2056>Marx said children should work>sex work is work>therefore Jim Waktins is a commie No.2059
i am the 100% heterosexual strawman
No.2061
>>2051yeah this guy is not very good at articulating himself. he does have a lot of very good points though.
No.2062
>>2061That's just because you're an anglo and you think logically and axiomatically. If you abandon coherent thought, the possibilities are endless.
No.2063
>>2062an attempt at being funny was made, i see
No.2064
>>2063anglo-saxon humour is no laughing matter
No.2065
>Revolution isn't the be-all end-all. You have to see the right time for revolution and be ready for it.
>Intersectionality is bad because you are just treating "marginalized people" as those categories and using them.
As critical as I am of these guys, this is very based.anarcho-communismAnarcho-Communism
No.2066
>>2065>>Revolution isn't the be-all end-all. You have to see the right time for revolution and be ready for it.Maoist strategy fits this pretty well.
No.2067
>>2062Anglo humour sucks really badly
No.2069
>>2065Yeah this take is based AF
>>2068<BookchinThe jokes write themselves
sandinistaSandinista No.2070
really excited to hear the alfred debate
No.2071
>>2030>We're here to learn, to shitpost, to have fun, and to change the worldBruh, Infrared takes himself way to serious, as that your hypothesis might be true. If I have fun, by calling him a schizo, he would verbally harass me, because he has no chill
No.2072
>>2047Since when did you become such a Cheerleader? Normally your posts are somewhat nuanced
No.2074
>>2073The million categories is anglo brain rot and sexuality is much more fluid than that. The idea of clear categories is invented by western modernity etc
No.2075
>>2074Oh, yeah seems reasonable. What is he suggesting? Abandoning the Concept altogether and not caring anymore? Would be my proposal atleast
No.2076
>I HATE THIS GREEN FONT
>IT'S SO PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE AND THEY'RE TALKING OUT THEIR ASS
No.2077
>>2072Because I like them even though I disagree with a lot of their stuff. I'm interested to see where they go, that's all.
ddrDDR No.2078
>>2064You have forced me to kek instead.
>>2069Should we start calling dogmatists bookchins? How about the occasional kiddies on /pol/ who just took their cuckonomics 101 final and think they know the meaning of life?
>>2076<YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE FONT COLORS AND ANAL VENTRILOQUISM BUCKO? No.2079
Do these niggas support modern China? What do they see in it?
No.2080
>>2079I honestly cannot discern any actual politics from this stream. It is a mish-mash of barely understood concepts and badly mangled and somewhat correct criticisms which are applied to no real end. It is talking for its own sake, but with a bunch of philosophically and academically abstracted marxism.
No.2081
Okay here is some criticism: I think people like Lacan and Heidegger are worth reading but they're just on another level than Nick Land or Dugin. The former are actually well-accepted and reviewed contributions to philosophy, Land is a bit of a crackpot and Dugin is Russia's more well-read Alex Jones. I think it's a mistake to elevate them to that level.ddrDDR
No.2082
>>2075seemed that way to me. honestly the complete dissolution of the concept of gender (not sex, obviously) is preferrable to the bullshit we have no in the west
No.2083
>>2080I'm not going to claim that they don't have an actual ideology, but they for sure are failing to communicate one. The "schizo" moniker is actually extremely accurate because of the disorganized way they are talking about these subjects and not really connecting them together, but behaving as if what they are saying is of profound importance.
No.2084
haz youre propably gonna read this, heres some advice to you. stop engaging with bad faith discussion, bait and trolling. its just gonna make you look like a hot headed idiot and turn people away. focus on getting your points across.
No.2085
>>2083it doesn't help that they refer to all kinds of other media elsewhere that nobody will bother to look up because why-the-fuck-would-they
they might've studied marx for a trillion years for all I care but they've obviously not organized a single fucking thing irl in their lives. you should have a simple bullet-point list of your beliefs and ideas you can reiterate at any given time if you just don't want to do the whole shebang.
No.2087
>>2085>it doesn't help that they refer to all kinds of other media elsewhere that nobody will bother to look up because why-the-fuck-would-theyIt's more than that though. They are incorporating ideas from a bunch of eclectic sources but making it unclear what the source is or what version of the idea is, so even if you are as knowledgeable as they are it's literally impossible to follow because they're not providing the necessary context.
No.2088
>>2087it is amazing how it manages to be both the apex of the dumbest parts of the academic left while also failing at even the most basic aspects of the academic part of the academic left
No.2090
>>2088I mean that's pretty much academia these days isn't it?
No.2091
>>2090Well, true, but there isn't really an academic left within current academia anymore so a bit of a moot point
No.2092
>>2082What we have in the West is gender neoliberalism.
>>2083He needs to:
<A1. write<A2. get an editorOR
<B1. write<B2. post here<B3. defend<B4. edit<B5. goto B2Philosophy in denial on television in denial is just not going to work out well.
No.2095
>using a black person in a reaction image is blackface
Oh no, Haz took the woke turn.
No.2096
>>2093Imagine thinking the CPUSA needs millions of dollars to survive lmao
I don't think they even have like associated unions anymore, all they really do is a bit of like food drives and shit and print out posters
No.2097
>>2096Well, after Soviet sponsoring for communist parties dried up after 1991, they all did shrink significantly.
ddrDDR No.2098
>>2096And tell people to vote democrat.
No.2099
NOTICE ME HAZ
No.2100
>>2097I mean you could argue that was because communism generally seemed defeated
even if you still believed in communism it wouldn't be unreasonable to leave because it'd be expected there would be a crackdown
>>2098true
No.2101
>>2092>What we have in the West is gender neoliberalism.yeah and it fucking sucks
No.2102
Wow he actually went through the fucking thread. Maybe he's really an autist not a schizo because as Haz (peace be upon him) as told us, it's impossible to be both.
No.2103
>>2095pic
>>2101Don't worry, you too can develop your gender capital and become a gender entrepreneur, and if you work your gender hard enough, you can gender retire early with massive gender gains.
No.2104
my man is extrapolating a critique of his incoherence into me not liking mixing peas and mashed potatoes together
No.2105
>Why is a mishmash significant?
Because the idea of having a political program is to crystallize the concepts into something structural that can be applied in a political context as a functional program, not a bunch of random neat points you can tell people on a livestream.
What's your actual program, Haz?
No.2106
I want to see a debate between Haz and Man in the wall (or Jason Unruhe)
No.2108
>Nick Land is one of the most clear and concise writers I've ever read.
Now I really want to know what he considers an example of the opposite.
No.2109
Isn't the whole "Dugin is very influential" very much a meme furthered by Russiagating liberals? Liberals love to overplay Dugin's influence and think he's got Putin's ear when he's in fact pretty isolated.ddrDDR
No.2111
>>2108nick land has written other works than fanged noumena ya know
No.2112
I like how he makes a point about anti-academicism but he always brings up all kinds of books and writings without talking about what he thinks of these works or what points he wants to make by bringing them up, basically always presuming an academic context within his own dialog. just say what you like about Land or Dungin or whoever rather than just say "read (x)", its literally a meme as old as Bookchin
No.2113
>communicating a political program is being put in a box
>everything is connected a priori
Ok this is legit schizo hours.
Yes everything is connected, Haz. But they're not all connected directly and equally. They are connected in roundabout ways by all the ideas between them. A functional ideology is based on making specific connections and separations that allow you to prioritize certain parts of the whole and as a result make real changes to the whole.
No.2114
would it be a stretch to say Infrared is like The Grayzone but in podcast form?
No.2115
Western Marxist: everything needs to be defined by putting everything in a box because humans are totally robots
No.2116
Has anyone this webm of Socialism with chinese characteristics? Where this chinese acedemic is talking about the "huge ideological box"?
No.2117
I really wanna know in what regards he is banned from academia
did he get caught trying to put his arm up the snack machine for a free snickers
No.2118
>>2105Still trying to break into bourgeois politics when they have reserved the right to reject you for their own reasons? That's like asking them to hand you a revolution, pretty please. I get the sense that vanguards just want to get elected, cash out, and go grill.
>>2117Failing to capitalize Black is grounds for permanent exile.
No.2119
>agrees with dsa
>agrees with cpusa
GOMMIE GOPTER RIDEanarcho-capitalismAnarcho-Capitalism
No.2120
>>2093CPUSA seems full of neo-Browderites but without any of the infrastructure that made their "Popular Front" strategy work during the Great Depression. They have no good reason to be peddling that shit now imo.
No.2125
>english accent
>goes full dixie
close enough lol
No.2127
>ideologies aren't created in a lab
>for instance nationalism
This is like… the worst possible example of how ideology is organic.
No.2128
PLEASE LEFTYPOL! HELP INFRARED MAKE A READING LIST
No.2131
Haz, what are your thoughts about Cirno?
No.2134
>>2128Fuck dat. The very first goal of anyone partaking in discourse should be writing your own damn footnotes.
Seriously this guy needs to get off youtube and write, if only to straighten and clear his mind.
No.2135
>>2120okay, thoughts on the CR-CPUSA? (even though you're all not maoist)
No.2136
>>2129haz this post's image is actually a PDF
if you click it, it will download the entire book for you
No.2137
Based, taking down "direct action", always hated this term thrown around as a shield in Anglo leftist discourse.ddrDDR
No.2138
thank you for having the patience to engage with these retards Haz. I've been trying to tell these retards about pseudo-activity for years (from Zizek) but I get called an armchair for it.
No.2142
RE: "Vanguard"; I wonder how much correspondence CPUSA has had with CCP via IMCWP.
No.2143
Can you ask Ezra what's up with the "CCP" acronym the West started to use collectively for the Communist Party of China? I feel like they cooked that up and used it overnight. Like, there is no media outlet in the West that would use "CPC" anymore.
No.2144
>>2142I think its ultimately pretty funny to have a hangup with the idea of a vanguard when the entire point was that by just throwing out not even sources but authors he is neglecting to actually make his own points
No.2145
>people can't relate to their communities to create direct action
my man that is literally what atomization is describing
No.2147
>>2144>by just throwing out not even sources but authors he is neglecting to actually make his own pointsAlmost like it's about intellectual masturbation to these guys and they want to make a big deal about how much and who they've read and if you disagree with them they flex their reading list.
No.2148
>just one more post anarchismAnarchism
No.2149
>>2146lots of people don't like hinterlands because of the flowery, "poetic" language alone
No.2151
>>2146It's like a handful of people at most who like Hinterlands here.
No.2152
>>2150He already is.
We all are.
No.2154
MS PAINT TIME
No.2155
"I'll release my books when I release them"
LAZY GOMMIE GETS THE GOPTER RIDE BIRSTanarcho-capitalismAnarcho-Capitalism
No.2159
I would totally read his books tbh if they are even half entertaining as his streams.
No.2160
>>2159he should honestly start a blog like his friend cockydooody
No.2161
>>2159I hope they're novels with Rei and Neon as the antagonists.
No.2162
>>2137Absolutely fucking retarded a strike is direct action it’s the only action that gets results
No.2163
>>2159I guarantee he has not written anything longer than like 20 pages
No.2167
>>2165He's right, you know.
No.2174
>>2141we must embrace maulist-leninism
No.2175
The true Leninist was Count Dooku tbh.
No.2176
>>2175Dooku is Blanquist tbh
No.2178
what hentai tags do you like
No.2179
<what are the mechanisms
broadly it is the relations people have to their own society, like wage-labor, communal relations, culture, ect.
No.2180
>>2160>I have several blogs; you just can't find themLink your blog(s), coward
No.2181
>>2162Strikes in the US were made effective by free and independent trade unions. Those haven't really existed since 1947.
No.2182
>>2165>>2180>I have written a bunch of books and have several blogs, but they're too difficult for you, I promise.He keeps telling people to put their money where their mouth is and debate him but he won't even publish his books or tell people about his blogs? What happened to anonymity being cowardice?
No.2183
Why wouldn't he reveal at least one blog if he's confident in his ideas?
Is he afraid that written-out thoughts can actually be critiqued holistically and don't have the excuse of being a stream of consciousness like a livestream?
No.2184
Haz, what do you think about Rei?
No.2185
youre stuck here now
No.2187
Haz is kind of hot tbh.
No.2189
are there any programmers in infrared? just curiousaccelerationAcceleration
No.2190
Does Haz smoke hash?
No.2191
What is the best way to describe Infrared if I wanted to introduce them to my grandparents?
No.2195
Why do these Infrared guys never want to debate the people who challenge them in chat?
No.2196
Honestly I'd have more respect for these infrared guys if they made some proper music.
No.2199
I wonder if Haz has any writings about videogames
No.2201
Debate time. Let's see if they have the mettleddrDDR
No.2202
>first person to come and debate haz
oh boy
No.2203
>>2201Is it you DDR anon?
No.2207
btw stop shitposting, let's keep this focused.ddrDDR
No.2208
>I'm muting you
very debate much professional
No.2209
>>2203fucking no way I'm this high-pitched creature, I have a deep manly voice, bitches.
ddrDDR No.2211
>>2208this is already a shitshow
No.2212
mickey mouse vs shadow
No.2214
>>2209Then why don't you debate him like you promised you little pussy?
No.2215
>>2205Who gave you permission to post my waifu?
tankieTankie No.2217
>the eternal victim anarchismAnarchism
No.2218
People give Haz a hard time for him being emotional and unhinged, but he actually only gets mad at retards and people who insult him. He's never aggressive towards people who are friendly or neutral towards himddrDDR
No.2219
We are brutal and violent towards him guys ;_;
Please stop, we are hurting Haz.
No.2220
>calling me a schizo is LITERALLY VIOLENCE
dis nigga trigga'd
No.2222
APOLOGIZE LEFTYPOL
No.2223
>>2214I would but the question I had for them was already answered. Do you have an idea on what we could debate?
ddrDDR No.2224
>>2219A thousand years of suffering on Duginists.
tankieTankie No.2229
>>2223The value of Heidegger thought in Marxism, idk, it depends on what your disagreements are with him.
No.2230
DDR-anon go on Infrared; haz wants you
No.2232
>>2230Yeah DDR anon, please debate him, he wants to be your bro.
No.2235
>you must apologize for calling me a bitch and then we'll be civil
absolute baby
No.2236
>>2229nobody on this board has a clue about Heidegger or his ideas lol. the only people who dismiss him attack his character or just dismiss him for not being a based communist.
accelerationAcceleration No.2239
lmao is that communizer person trying to lure him on his Discord?ddrDDR
No.2244
Haz, I don't think it's the MLs on this board who are the majority of your detractors. Most of the shit flying your way comes probably from other tendencies.ddrDDR
No.2247
>>2246It's obviously a symbiotic relationship /leftypol/ has with these guys.
ddrDDR No.2248
>>2247this is so stupid I have finally come on board
haz should form an alliance with /leftypol/ or something, we can link him on our homepage
No.2249
I like this. It feels like a radio show.
No.2250
of the post-68ers who're still alive, Badiou still seems to fashion himself a communist
No.2252
We officially support Haz and Infrared in their struggle against Anglo -Empiricism.
No.2253
>>2252Seconded
sandinistaSandinista No.2254
>>2247He should just embrace it.
No.2259
>>2255Yeah, it's a rather nice discussion
and the voice of the "debater" is cute tbh No.2261
>>2259Debater is incredibly based and coherent and Haz needs somebody like that to reel in his directionless thrashing.
No.2262
>>2261although its amazing for content, haz's erratic behavior is really not doing any good for them
No.2263
>>2255>>2259its fundamentally wrong in that the adoption of measures of central planning and stuff isn't an adoption of socialism but is rather an inevitability of capitalism because of the inevitable consolidation of capital with a falling rate of profit - it is definitively new left dialog completely dancing around the actual material point of the structure of society and instead opting for this kind of cultural and social analysis
all that said
>>2261 is right, the debater has Haz be at least somewhat fucking coherent. its like the first time he has made an actual political point or had a real discussion this stream.
No.2264
>>2263>its fundamentally wrong in that the adoption of measures of central planning and stuff isn't an adoption of socialism but is rather an inevitability of capitalism because of the inevitable consolidation of capital with a falling rate of profit - it is definitively new left dialog completely dancing around the actual material point of the structure of society and instead opting for this kind of cultural and social analysis Fucking exactly. It's literally just monopoly capitalism. Perhaps the confusion is the whole "state capitalism" discourse equivocating any kind of monopolization whether private or state-owned.
No.2265
Just tuned in. Is this a leftypoler I hear here?
No.2266
>>2265yes and no?
s/he is on the cytube organizing movie nights I think.
No.2267
>>2265yeah, he's a leftypoler. his name's Haz.
accelerationAcceleration No.2268
>A lot of leftypol MLs are closet leftcoms
leftypol MLs completely BTFO!
No.2271
>>2252Debater: "I think a lot of /leftypol/ MLs are closet leftcoms in the sense that for them, everything is program, program, program"
No.2272
>>2266Use two *s on each side to spoiler.
>>2267I guess Haz is a leftypoler now lol
No.2273
>>2272haz is honorary /leftypol/
he survived the trial by fire
No.2274
>>2270Of course to the schizophrenic ramblings of the man who proclaims we already magically lives in socialism while simultaneously proclaiming that the definitions of working and capitalist class are out of date….some how? Would say we are the leftcoms.
No.2275
>>2274No it's not Haz who said that but the person debating him.
No.2276
really constructive conversation thus far
No.2278
>>2274/leftypol/ definitely has strong leftcom influences. All that bordiga posting rubbed off.
No.2280
>>2277>man, that is really being enamored with aesthetics lelYeah meanwhile the CPUSA has been a fed party fronting for the democrats for decades. And wasn't he just complaining about US being too caught up in aesthetics?
No.2281
>>2280any "aesthetic" angle can be turned against you because it is inherently not anchored in real meaning
your victories and triumphs on behalf of the proletariat is what you should champion yourself by
No.2282
HAZ IS FINALLY MAKING SENSE
WE NEED A COMMIE FORCE THE VOTE
YES
No.2284
>wisdom of socialism
oh no he's back on the bullshit
No.2285
somebody tell the guest, he should stop slurping and making these sounds with his mouth
No.2286
>>2285nah. little speech ticks like that are kinda cute imho.
No.2288
>>2283Please please, debate him, I'm sure this would be an extremely interesting conversation.
No.2289
>>2277It's interesting how he's enamored with CPUSA as a brand—which I totally sympathize with, when it's usually the Browder-era of the party (1930s-1940s) that most people are typically drawn to. This is made more apparent with organizations like DSA having reconstituted that "fausitan bargain" (bad) as the debater mentioned or, "Commuinism is 20th Century Americanism" in all but name.
No.2290
Reaganism was the first type of american socialism????
No.2291
>>2285Yep like
>>2286 said it's really cute.
No.2292
>>2290In an aesthetical sense, but it's still really contentious to say the least.
No.2293
>>2275You must have missed the last few streams
No.2294
>>2289also the entire idea that neoliberalism is a form of socialism is very funny, if anything it is more the incorporation of the psychological elements of fascism into the liberal ideological framework.
>>2292"aesthetical" seems to be the only level they think on a lot of the time
No.2297
>>2280The real fed posting are people who say the CPUSA are full of feds and some how that means you shouldn't join.
No.2298
>>2296I mean, that is basically what socialism in one country is.
No.2299
>>2278This is stupid, last we checked we were mostly marxist leninist . Some one make a strawpoll.
No.2300
What if someone posted Haz on /pol/?brocialismBrocialism
No.2302
>>2294>"aesthetical" seems to be the only level they think on a lot of the timeYeah, while I can understand why one would focus on that, I'm really tired of this kind of leftist analysis it's too prevalent compared to the concrete analysis of the current relationship of production like someone such as Michael Roberts do but it's true that not only it requires a firm grasp on central Marxist concepts but it is far less "sexy" and on the surface "boring".
No.2303
>>2292I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on FDR and the Federal Art Project.
No.2304
Image of the future
No.2305
Eudeomonia knows more about leftism than me, and I'm more knowledgeable than a lot.
Power to you comrade.
No.2306
>>2300Please no, right now his streams are comfy, it would no longer be the case with retarded nazbols.
No.2307
>>2305They had a debate with Socialism Done Left that was also really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEd7ret127g No.2308
>>2302well there are good analysis of the cultural and aesthetical aspects of capitalism through people like Fisher which are far more correct and enlightening than this
No.2309
>>2300for the love of god nobody do this
No.2311
>>2307Yep the stream was great, Euda argued very well
No.2312
when i first found out about these guys 2 days ago through this thread i was very sceptical but this was extremely insightful.
No.2313
Main points from Haz as of now:
-The Eff is superior cause it has a superior way of building the socialist collectivity and this has to be adapted and brought to the West
-Land reform can be important
These are the main takeaways i took from them now, surely interesting.sandinistaSandinista
No.2314
>>2313There is also someone about Heidegger being the key to update Marx in the West but i'm too small brain for that.
sandinistaSandinista No.2315
>>2313Any reading recommendations on the EFF?
No.2318
>>2317Hey, the EFF does great work.
No.2319
>>2317the EFF is literally just pretty by-the-book MLs with Sankarist leanings
No.2320
It'd be obscenely based if someone cuts eudemonia's segment and posts here.
No.2321
Damn, I feel I'm so behind theoretically. But I feel on an instinctual level what they talk about to be very true, dogmatic leftist are the real 'conservatives'.
No.2322
>>2320Plenty of meme material
anarchismAnarchism No.2323
>>2314he said something about westeners not having any real objective connection to socialism and heidegger, specifically dasein is a useful tool for giving that connection
sadly im also too small brained to understand that, gonna have to add another book to my reading list i guess
No.2324
>>2323>westeners not having any real objective connectionHe could have stopped there and been mostly correct.
No.2326
So this dude is leftypol's resident lolcow?
No.2327
>>2321you honestly aren't missing much from the new left. really just think about liberalism as incorporating all of the psychological aspects of fascism into their ideology and you've basically gotten all of their theoretical contributions to leftism.
>>2325probably because you are deeply retarded. the new left and stirner are like exact opposites, they are very spooked.
>>2326yes
No.2328
>>2323>westeners not having any real objective connection to socialismWhat if easterners are not having a real objective connection to socialism?
No.2329
>>2323start with Hubert Drayfus' lectures. he uses plenty of everyday examples so everything he says is extremely easy to understand.
just read the pages he tells you to before each lecture
No.2330
>>2325If anything he's spooking it worse, lol
No.2331
>>2209You’re my favorite poster
left_communismLeft Communism No.2333
>>2331Also, I’m not the reactionary leftcom flag poster, nor am I a leftcom it is just a flag
socialismSocialism No.2334
>>2331I agree even though I have my disagreement with GDR anon, I must admit his posts and responses are always well thought out and argued, he is one of the few who actually quotes authors instead of making shit up.
No.2336
>>2334I like GDR anons posts. I believe there's at least one more anon that frequently uses it.
No.2338
>>2292It's not aesthetic, it's material if you're working within their internal logic. The hoax is that the aesthetics were entrenched in capitalism and a freer market, when in truth there was a remarkably high degree of continuous (the most important word) government sustenance of a ever increasing debt load due to sudden tax cuts. They realized, coupled with increased militarism, that debt would be meaningless to them at the point from which they were beginning and that they'd be able to control its implications in a global system, in fact using it to its advantage of one of many things to become made into security. In a way, has money not become illusory at that point? To some extent abolished?
No.2339
>>2319Yeah, and that's why they're based
sandinistaSandinista No.2340
>>2313Re watching their "What Infrared is all about" i found another interesting point:
-The Western marxists act in relation with the system as pure negation without (mostly) bringing any constructive/positive/peculiar element in their political discourse. They lack the pars costruens to say.
(At the end of the day is the same point Caleb says with his "city builder" stuff only said in a more academic sounding way, and maybe that's why they're huge fan of Caleb, or at least why Haz is).
Also that's why they look to the EFF as something to study and appreciate.
sandinistaSandinista No.2341
If people new to this thread are wondering what is being discussed here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHGVmPhcBU No.2345
>>2344Is this an ontological question?
No.2347
>>2343eudaimonia is chill af. like nigga, just make a youtube channel.
No.2348
>>2347Dunno. He seems like a nice dude. His whole point about "you are about a positive vision, but why are you so angry at trolls?" misses the mark. You can't separate these two. Being passionate about something isn't reduceable to "love". Take Lenin or Marx or whomever and they clearly had passionate hatred for idiots while having a passionate love or support for the cause of the proletariat.
Also, his
>the essence of alienation is our inability to loveis just hippy dippy BS.
No.2349
>>2347In any case, Infrared should be acknowledged for the fact that they are bringing in new voices otherwise would remain hidden.
No.2350
>>2348No, the essence of alienation is the process by which capitalism makes people objects defined by their productive capacity
socialismSocialism No.2351
>>2349I get a lot of lols from him being angry. I also don't think he's actually angry. It's more passion + frustration. I don't know. I get it all the time here arguing with retards. I don't get angry, I just get really worked up.
>>2348True.
>>2350picrel.
No.2352
>>2268>>2271kinda weird statement ITT, considering most ML posters here (at least judging by the flags – DDR, Lenin hat, Sandinista) seem to support Infrared. Dunno who these "leftypol MLs" are supposed to be.
No.2353
>>2350>the essence is a processSo it's not an essence then.
No.2354
>>2352>leftypol MLs A construct in his head when made a persona. When I referred to it I meant discrete posts I see here that may have corresponded to his frustration. They are anons, not flag posters. In truth, these were mostly posts trolling him but I do think people on leftypol can be very cut and dry about how they approach concepts regardless of tendency. I think he was bummed because he thought he wasn’t being accepted by MLS.
To be clear, I was not looking to accurately represent my beliefs so much as find common ground. They have good things to say and I wanted to hear more about them.
socialismSocialism No.2356
>>1875He's really handsome actually lol
No.2360
Okay I'm finally listening to the stream, and out of all the posts, mine "triggered him the most." Fucking nailed him lol. Hey, this is fun.
No.2362
>>2360It's kinda lame that you get enjoyment from trolling people who are trying to do honest work.
No.2364
>>2363Haz does have a point tho: you like attacking them from this anonymous forum? Have the balls and join their stream. Oh, what's that? You prefer to be a random troll? Okay, big boy. You sure "attacked" them.
No.2366
>>2364Sure, that sounds like it could be insightful. Maybe I'll call in. Maybe we can talk about the CPUSA. I'm listening to the stream and agree with what he's saying about them.
No.2368
What the fuck has this guy even done besides be a really obnoxious contrarian? I don't understand why you faggots are worshipping him, the more I listen to him the more I'm confused as to why the fuck leftypol is obsessed with him.
No.2369
>>2364It's literally just contrarian philosophical diarrhea, the only reason leftypol think infrared are saying anything is because it's really
ANGRY and
confident contrarian philosophical diarrhea. Y'all are just falling for the speech-check.
No.2370
>>2369And falling for your post that tries to discredit them is failing a confidence-check.
Whip your genitals out and tell me what exactly you disagree with them.
No.2371
>>1901>the closest /leftypol/ will ever have to a YouTube contentYou mean the closest /leftypol/'s namefags will ever have in terms of youtube content
sendero_luminosoSendero Luminoso No.2372
>>2371which namefags. extremely vague accusation.
we have like 1 namefag, sage, who's functionally retarded. rampant anorectal violence guy sticks to his topic, so their youtube would be about that.
shay is deleuzean schizo analysis with /x/ characteristics. these guys are not that.
which namefag were you thinking about? or where you being a massive cunt?
No.2373
>>2370>Whip your genitals out and tell me what exactly you disagree with them.I would if they actually fucking said anything. What have these people actually fucking said or done that isn't just contrarian philosophical word salad?
>anglo bad>westerner bad>uhhh ackshually we already live in socialismwhat the
FUCK have they actually said of value
No.2374
>>2368>What the fuck has this guy even done besides be a really obnoxious contrarian?You are describing yourself.
>I don't understand why you faggots are worshipping himLiking someone =/= worshipping someone.
> I'm confused as to why the fuck leftypol is obsessed with him.The ones obsessed with him are the trolls.
>>2373Maybe watch a few of their videos to find out?
No.2376
>>2374>Maybe watch a few of their videos to find out?NO.Fucking tell me. If you actually think they're saying something of value, then clearly you should be able to tell me what it is.
No.2377
>>2368Eh, for me, boredom. What else do I have going on?
>>2367Actually, I'd be curious to see his reaction to this video series from the CPC for party members called "Don't Forget Your Original Heart, Keep Your Mission in Mind" (meaning communism ofc) and I find it fascinating because they'll show rescue workers and firefighters pulling people out of wreckage. Like, what is going to inspire a person to go beyond their limitations and save someone's life by pulling them from a burning building? It's a very different message from what I see from western socialists.
http://chuxin.people.cn/GB/428819/index.htmlAlso, about the CPUSA being the "good ol' communist party," I think there's something to be said for longevity too, the fact that the old folks in the party are still doing it after all these years. Machiavelli thought legitimacy comes in part from existence and longevity, and if that has any relevance for communists, it's that one of the political projects we clearly need is to just exist in the first place… as in have a socialist state which has gained traditions and past glories. Just the existence of the USSR in the 50s and 60s, whatever anyone thinks about it, created a space for revolution in the third world. Does this make "the party" the modern "Prince?" Or maybe another lesson we should learn from this is the success of the Catholic Church as an institution which has survived for millennia.
No.2379
>>2372I was thinking more like an amalgamation, a Frankenstein's monster of bits and pieces of all of them, but Sage, Eugene, King Lear, and Shay were what initially came to mind. You have Eugene and Lear's chaotic racing thoughts (schizo shit), Shay's interest in Deleuze, and Sage's dumb aggressive reply style that he does time to time.
sendero_luminosoSendero Luminoso No.2380
>>2378It wasn't enough to feel smug. The other anon needed to first promote infrared to "world star e-celebs that bump shoulders with Rihana", to then look down upon them.
>>2379Sage is retarded and can only think in terms of tenant unions. Eugene is retarded and can only think in terms of eugenics, plus make 90 page rants about things that should only take 1 or 2 sentences to say. King Lear has a boner for gays and China and is frankly retarded. Shay is based but has no interest in Deleuze, I was describing them, not their theoretical interests.
Basically every single namefag you mention except Shay is single minded and 100% retarded. I'll take this opportunity to mention that I never read their retarded posts. These guys are much more based just on principle of not being 100% retarded.
No.2382
>>2380Both Eugene and Lear are both terminal pseuds who will claim they have read what you're discussing, but will quickly reveal they've read none of it when grilled about it. At least Howard Scott made an actual effort to read Marx.
No.2383
>>2360Let me guess, you posted that smug tea drinking react pic. I felt a little confused about him being angry at that post, he picked it apart piece by piece, but he should've read the whole post in its entirety.
>>2376They are actually pretty wel read on theory, they have like 12 members in their collective from different backgrounds. Haz has BDE. I haven't really found a criticism that stuck, they're chill and I can appreciate the angle they're coming from.
No.2384
>>2368nothing, he is just fun to trigger. man is a retarded new-left type.
No.2385
>>2383>I can appreciate the angle they're coming from.lel Lacan had a theory of human psychological development which was so evidently wrong his own students btfo'd him on it, the new left is largely nothing but a complete failure, and this is the tradition they hail from.
No.2386
>>2385>Lacan had a theory of human psychological development which was so evidently wrong his own students btfo'd him on itBig if true.
No.2387
>>2386OK so basically it was a theory of early human development which posited that a certain stage of development was a "mirror" phase where the only way the child comes to learn they exist is to see reflections of themselves (not metaphorically, but literally).
Of course this doesn't work for blind or otherwise visually impaired people so he was basically implying blind people were incapable of undergoing human development, which his students brought up and summarily btfo'd him on.
the only reason charlatans like him have been able to get so far is the cargo cult culture the western left has in regards to its own captured and castrated "leftist" academia. its why haz complaining and talking about academia generally is rich, his ideology is borne completely out of a castrated "left" academia.
No.2388
>>2387>a "mirror" phase where the only way the child comes to learn they exist is to see reflections of themselves (not metaphorically, but literally)I know for a fact that this is a parody of Lacan. But keep debunking strawmen – that will make you look so much smarter.
No.2389
>>2369this, he's basically the schizo and more far left version of Vaush.
No.2390
>>2388my man his entire assertion for the mirror stage was based on a psychological study of various animals including humans in regards to self recognition in a very literal mirror, his entire theory was built around actual literal seeing yourself in a mirror.
No.2391
>>2228too bad shes banned from twitter
No.2392
>>2390The case of an infant seeing itself in a mirror is used as an
exemplary case of self-recognition; Lacan posits that all children pass through this stage of
self-recognition, as reflected (primarily) in the mother as primary caregiver. Clearly, for blind infants, this would occur in some other register within what Lacan calls the perception-consciousness system.
Similarly, Freud (to the best of my knowledge) does not explicitly describe the dreams of blind people in The Interpretation of Dreams; this omission does not imply that blind people are lacking the unconscious drive for wish-fulfillment, etc.
Sage because pseud pretending to be an expert.
Picrel is obv. pedagogic demonstration, not "how it literally happens to every kid."
No.2393
>>2377>Machiavelli thought legitimacy comes in part from existence and longevityto be real with you I'm pretty sure he just said that to be more acceptable by the monarchy that just overthrew his beloved and relatively short-lived Republic.
No.2394
>>2392is that the cope he came up with after he got btfo'd by his own students? the entire work was based foremost on Henry Wallon's experiments on self-recognition in mirrors and was by all means initially based in self-recognition of that sort. anything beyond this most literal of interpretation is a post-owning cope, even Dylan Evans, a pretty big proponent of Lacan, admits that the mirror stage was only really abstracted away from literal mirrors over time mostly by later academics.
No.2395
>>2394So, wait, you
admit that the theory doesn't even originate in Lacan and that he actually reworked it with his Sausserian turn? Your critique is completely displaced. In any case, relying on Dylan, who abandoned Lacanian theory completely, to explain Lacan is like relying on David Horowitz to explain Marx. You can do that, just don't expect people will take it as a good faith argument.
Lacan's mirror stage
is about the symbolic whether you'd like to admit it or not, and as such applies to any infant capable of developing language. (Yes, mute, blind, and deaf language too which all have signifiers.)
No.2396
Lacan retracted his theory at some point that the mirror stage had anything to do with the psychological development he was describing. I don't think he's wrong about the connection between language and psychology in infancy, which is the real point.accelerationAcceleration
No.2397
>>2395His "theory" originates in a scientific study whose own author would disavow Lacan's findings by it, the man was regarded as such a quack that he was kicked out of the fucking
International Psychoanalytic Association, a collection of schitzos themselves.
Lacan may have coped his theory into something else after he got flak for being a retard, but it was still founded on a fundamentally incorrect basis. You never saw Marx. and co. trot out this kind of drivel. Tthis isn't to say that everything lacan worked on was garbage or that everything influenced by him is, but it should be suspect at least, and taking his work uncritically (as Haz does, it seems) is a path to ruination.
No.2398
>>2397>quack>schitzos>coped>flak>retard>garbage>ruinationI see the ThingUnderstander just logged in.
No.2399
Though, I will say, Lacan really does fit as a philosophical basis for Haz. A lot of empty signals and half-codified concepts strung together only really kept as a single peace through the work of others. Impossible to really "understand" as much as extrapolate occasionally useful concepts from, like his other idol in Nick Land. Its all that these new left types amount to: tearing asunder the texts of schizophrenics and ignoring all of the bad and failed parts of it to try and exemplify the few useful parts of them while not realizing that by definition all of those failed and reactionary elements informed the very few useful conclusions, and consequently failing to counter their reactionary manifestations in their own theory.
This is why the CPUSA is "good" to Haz because its old, because they've allowed so much reactionary infiltration into their brains that things that are old are inherently good. Its amazing that he can shit on AOC and the like for being incompetent simps for the Democrats when the CPUSA tells everyone to vote for the latest blue-tinged Hitlerite the DNC rolls out year after year after year without failure. Have you ever really "seen" DC?
>It's not a city. It’s an endless maze of low barriers and security zones, a place infinitely cordoned off from itself. Every street is lined with low ugly business-park blocks that modestly announce themselves as the headquarters of some kind of terrible global evil: the International Directorate for Diarrhoea and Diarrhoea-Causing Pathogens, the Alliance for Tearing Small Holes In Mosquito Nets, the US State Department, the IMF. Evil without grandeur… Imagine seventy square miles in which the Nazis won the war.
This is the shit the CPUSA works with and endorses on a regular basis. And we're supposed to support the CPUSA. Because its old.
No.2400
>>2399Haz literally said the CPUSA has bad politics.
accelerationAcceleration No.2401
>>2399He never said we should support the CPUSA.
>things I don't understand are meaningless"okay"
>people I dislike are all schizos"okay"
No.2402
>>2400Bad politics, bad optics, bad everything, and we're still supposed to support them. Because they have an aesthetic of being an "establishment". You are not contrary to my point, you are making it for me.
>>2401He quite literally did.
No.2403
>>2402RE: CPUSA, tfw he never answered my question
>>2135 No.2405
>>2403well for what its worth I'll answer it. all of the various cold war leftover parties are all useless in the same uniform way in that they have not and really have never captured any degree of a popular mass movement within their party. The CPUSA categorically failed to ever incorporate things like the agitation for rights during the civil rights and as a consequence the Black Panthers picked up where they completely failed to, and led their own local success. it doesn't matter if a party is new or old, all are equally useless without a mass-movement behind it. haz is just obsessed with the aesthetics of it all.
No.2406
>>2402>we're still supposed to support themI don't think it's uncritically support the CPUSA so much as joining, participating and trying to develop their politics. You enjoy the continuity of the party's history, and seek to get it to a place where its politics aren't shit
No.2407
>>2406but the history is just fucking aesthetics and the politics are shit
No.2408
>>2407all western parties politics are shit
No.2410
>>2408yes
so why join any of them? the entire point of a party is organizing a mass movement which doesn't even exist yet? I swear all the fucking western MLs want the aesthetics of the party without putting in the work that a party needs to be effective to begin with. you can't make a party and the people will come to you, the party is the culmination of organizing via other means finally bringing together all manner of different parts of the proletariat under one banner.
>>2409no they are equally as shit, if not possibly more so. all parties are failures because they have no mass movement to them.
No.2411
>>2409second file should be named us maoist *groups, sorry
No.2412
parties are for drinking
no more confessionalism, found organizations around achieving specific goals. until those organizations are sufficiently large and powerful and numerous that they need an independent co-ordinating body or "political wing" there is absolutely no need for parties - except, as i said, for drinking.democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism
No.2413
>>2410because it’s better than building one from scratch. if you’re going to represent any party it might as well be the CPUSA.
No.2414
>>2410CPUSA are actually are trying to organize by other means, though; they reestablished the YCL just last year. There's been renewed interest in tenant unions and unemployed councils since even before the pandemic began as well.
No.2415
>>2413>because it’s better than building one from scratchin such a scenario both parties would both be equally useless because they both don't have any mass movement to them
try again
No.2416
>>2414they can get back to me if and when they actually succeed, but they have still fundamentally gotten it all ass-backwards. that they were virtually a party organized by a bunch of ideologically-involved college students rather than defined by a mass-movement of the proletariat being the basis for their creation likely means their foundational aspects are totally unresponsive to the modern proletariat and will have to be totally reworked to suit their interests - virtually the equivalent of making an entirely new party, but with an obstructionist administration likely blocking their path and every step. and mind, this is only
if they succeed to get a mass movement behind them.
No.2417
>>2416You sound like an opportunist.
No.2418
>>2417what fucking opportunity am I even exploiting? the total ineptitude of the left in the US more generally? and towards what end?
just because people say or do things that don't jive with the orthodoxy doesn't make them some kind of saboteur. its not like I'm trying to sell a fucking party-supplement in pill form here.
No.2419
>>2412Would rather drink with CPUSA boomers than DSA zoomers
No.2420
>>2419i want to drink with the "punk" "anarchists" who have no coherent political theory (much like parties, only they're wordier about it and i'm going to be the wordy boring cunt at this party) but can tell me where to get drugs.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.2421
>>2415that’s a lot of ifs, not facts. try again.
No.2422
>>2418yeah you’re just concern trolling. none of what your saying is news.
No.2423
>>2418Opportunism is waiting until the "real" work is done before joining a party, affinity group, whatever you want to call it. Like breadtube "socialists" arguing for entryist attempts at pushing the Democrats left, it's the path of least resistance for these bougie fucks.
No.2424
>>2421I see no mass movement behind the CPUSA nor do I have the gall to say any party I would make would have either. they are categorically true, as far as I can see.
>>2423then every opportunist would be the ones in the fucking parties doing literally nothing and waiting for the proles to come to them. I organize and do things independent of parties because all the parties have seemed to breed has been failure. I don't want all my work co-opted into fucking "vote for Hillary" retards whose only work is fucking paperwork. Should that change, maybe I will consider joining and organizing with them.
No.2425
>>2424>Should that change, maybe I will consider joining and organizing with them.To be clear, I'm with you here; see
>>2120. but I still agree with Haz that it's a "brand" worth saving. That can't be done without joining and seeing what's up. If not then you could always (loosely) affiliate with Marxist Center at some point.
No.2426
>>2420>I’m going to be the wordy boring cunt at this partyFair enough
No.2427
>>2245“Either you get killed in the cradle by imageboards or you rise to become a kiwifarms thread.”
–Hegel
>>2397>the man was regarded as such a quack that he was kicked out of the fucking International Psychoanalytic Association, a collection of schitzos themselvesLacan got into trouble for doing some very short sessions, like two minutes with a patient and then kthnxbye. Even Freudians have standards.
No.2428
>>2425if you really want to save the brand you'd be better off doing a reverse takeover at a future date tbh.
why buy up a heavily indebted company when you can start a new one, make loadsemone, then phoenix company the fuck out of the old one.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism No.2431
>>2370>Whip your genitals out and tell me what exactly you disagree with them.But we don't disagree with them. They haven't said hardly anything that you could even disagree with. They are mostly making a bunch of disconnected references to various concepts. It's like if you wrote some kind of theoretical work trying together these philosophical ideas with communism, but then you went on youtube and read off just your citations. The problem people are having is that we can barely find any substance to agree or disagree with.
>>2430The only reason people started "trolling" him is because he specifically came here after someone in his chat told him about us. He'd come up occasionally in the /IG/ thread as a new content creator to discuss, but it was him actually coming here and streaming the website that kicked off this interaction. We're not mid 2000's /b/, searching for somebody to troll epically.
No.2432
>>2412>parties are for drinkingBased. If I can't drink, it's not my revolution.
>>2417Opportunism scores wins and fuck your evangelical religion.
No.2433
>>2420DELIVER
THE
GOOD
S DRUGS
No.2434
>>2399The CPUSA indeed does have bad politics but that is a ridiculous strawman. Posting a flowery quote from Sam Kriss and then claim "this is what the CPUSA supports" is a cheap shot. Their "support" for the Democratic Party amounted to no explicit endorsement but rather a "don't vote for Trump" slogan and while I think this is wrong I doubt you can't find many criticisms of the American system and DC within the CPUSA's material.
Haz probably overestimates this but brand, aesthetic and tradition do play a role somewhat. The CPUSA isn't a big machine, it's malleable, and we can make it ours if we help organizing and reconstituting them instead of the constant splitting into sects. At least the CPUSA, from what I've seen, allows for open discussion in a democratic centralist tradition, while the PSL for example seems to stifle it.
ddrDDR No.2435
>>2434that they collaborate at all with the system of DC at a period of time where it is provable that all of the candidates will actively work to fuck over the proles is madness in and of itself. stopping trump would have been the same as stopping obama - they share the same politics and it would delay the radicalization of the right as much either way. the presidential politics is all performative bullshit, the underlying drive for radical action of late are the rapidly decaying conditions of the US empire. declare the presidents cowards and the US a failed state and get towards actually organizing against it, as opposed to a fucking bake sale for hillary or whatever they have been doing.
No.2436
>>2356Nah, he's average. Not bad but nothing extraordinary
No.2437
>>2383Yes and I thought it was funny when he expanded the image while shouting YOU MOTHERFUCKER, YOU CALL YOURSELF A MARXIST-LENINIST YOU SON OF A BITCH at this horribly smug picture of Jiang Zemin. Good stuff.
>>2434I voted for Biden. Trying to be the chad low-information voter, and always making it home in time for the big game.
No.2438
>>2381kek, does he not know terry?
No.2439
>>2380This. Haz is everything I don't like about Eugene and Lear. A bunch of retards that vastly overestimate just how big brain they are and how important their input that they treat everyone else like shit.
No.2440
Eudamonia has agreed to direct a sort of book club to help us get into this new line of thought.
Come on Matrix if you want to join
https://matrix.to/#/#IBC:matrix.org?via=matrix.org No.2441
>>2430who am i trolling? im just reminding /leftypol/ that it is silly to care this much about what some fucking rando youtuber is saying and it is absolutely pathetic to actually put time and thought into considering their politics and propositions
im not saying theres inherently something wrong with someone posting videos about what theyre thinking about or talking about stuff but this Face Center Frame Doing Asinine Diagrams shit is just edgy breadtube. its standard social media narcissism geared towards a different audience. do something else, read a book. at least when youre shitposting on here and getting to invested in it youre not jacking off some glorified tiktokers ego
No.2442
>>2441Based. What part of "the revolution will not be televised" is /leftypol/ so in denial about?
No.2443
Just realized can't say CHAZ without Haz, now what?sandinistaSandinista
No.2446
>>2445Nothing in Infrared's post implies what you think it implies. Stay mad Neon.
No.2447
>>2446What do you mean? You think you know better about marxism, than Merkel and VW CEOs?
No.2450
>>2445Cope dilate and have sex
sandinistaSandinista No.2451
>>2447>You think you know better about marxism, than Merkel and VW CEOs?Again, nothing in Infrared's post implies that Merkel knows anything about Marxism.
No.2452
>>2432If by "wins" you mean "diminishing returns" then sure.
No.2454
>>2432>fuck your evangelical religion.What the fuck are you talking about?
No.2456
>>2453Neon, what made you turn into some sort of left-com (?)? I remember your videos on your old channel being Marxist-Leninist, pro-Caleb Maupin, pro-China.
No.2458
>>2456I feel he's just shitposting
No.2459
>>2445>19th century Germany was non-industrial peripheryNope? Pretty much the opposite, actually?
>Marx was a jewNo, Marx was catholic/atheist and both Marx and Engels were upper class bourgeois, far from being "outsiders". Engels owned a factory in England ffs.
That being said, Marxism is neither a "western" nor an "eastern" ideology. It's about getting rid of class society.
ddrDDR No.2460
>>2459This is not DDR poster by way, I'm busy this evening, don't be an imposter, sucks …
Pic related for proof, have a nice stream everyone ITT nonetheless :)
ddrDDR No.2461
>>2452>I can only one strategyThat's why hybrid warfare has been B-ing you TFO for the past 50 years.
>>2450>implying xe's not doing all three at once>>2459>>19th century Germany was non-industrial peripheryWhat did he mean by this?
No.2462
>>2181that doesn't make direct action not effective and the world is bigger than the US and even then, strikes have made wins in the US since then
No.2464
>>2461If by "hybrid warfare" you mean "regurgitating century-old reformist arguments" then sure.
No.2465
>>2463Who is Camp and can you recommend one of their books
No.2466
>/leftypol/ split, and all the libs went to .org
If he doesn't like .org he's gonna hate bunkerchan.
No.2467
>>2464If by "reformism" you mean "not losing at revolution" then sure.
No.2468
>>2462They certainly have, and what unionization attempts exist should be supported. However, in the US at least, that still doesn't distract from the fact that calling for a strike (or any direct action, really) has become the universal cry of impotent people online.
No.2470
>>2468That again, doesn't change the actual effectiveness of a correctly organised strike, or other form of direct action. This is because online people actually just straight up do not understand what a union is, and what organisation actually is. Organising is building structures to execute tasks. NOT getting a bunch of people to go on a march etc, which is mobilisation.
No.2472
>>2467If settling for a Carnation Revolution-style social democratic coup will shut you up then so be it.
Still a lot Ls to be found there.
No.2474
>>2472check'd
>>2473>check stream<he is seething at one of my postslmao
No.2477
>>2476he also says he isn't new left because his favored new left theorist got attacked by other new leftists lmao
as if Trotsky instantly stopped being a part of the ideological heritage of Lenin when he critiqued and broke away from Stalin
No.2479
>>2476Haz claims to hate anglos, yet he speaks anglo language. Curious.
No.2481
>>2478Why did you post that in this thread?
No.2482
>Communism is political and a tradition
>by implication socialism isn't
What does socialism mean to Haz then? No hate, seriously what do you mean Haz?
No.2483
>>2481wanted to see haz's reaction desu
anarchismAnarchism No.2484
This is based lol
>>2480Wrong
No.2487
unironically I was drawn to Marxism as an intellectual thing, not an emotional one. If I was emotional about my politics, I would still be a Napoleon-loving liberal lmao
No.2489
lmao fiat currency emerged out of the gold standard during very early modernism, literally as early as fucking the American Civil War. How the fuck is fiat currency postmodern?
No.2492
Fuck hes going crazy
No.2493
>>2491That is still a definition.
No.2494
This guy uses a lot of chan lingo where did he shitpost?
>>2448>>2486Ginjeet needs to change his descriptions to link leftypol.org.
No.2495
>>2494>This guy uses a lot of chan lingo where did he shitpost?I'm pretty sure he is a creature of twitter
No.2496
>>2489>LTV is driveluh oh
anarchismAnarchism No.2497
>>2496lel did he say that?
No.2499
>>2495based and butthurt are twitter terms now? I hate it.
No.2500
>>2499it has been a general internet thing for like… probably since 2016 at the very least.
No.2501
>>2499Based went extremely mainstream. Butthurt is also pretty mainstream now. Internet culture is still downstream from imageboards and other niche communities like SomethingAwful, in spite of Haz's belief that everything is downstream from youtubers and Jordan Peterson.
No.2502
>>2499>>2500>>2501also mind that screencaps have been circulating around social media for a while now, I've seen even /leftypol/ screencaps thrown around other spaces.
No.2503
>>2502>I've seen even /leftypol/ screencaps thrown around other spaces.Yet Haz believes that our posts are inconsequential lol. The advantage of anonymity is that it's hard to get get deplatformed for saying things that challenge the status quo.
No.2504
>>2497he said the LTV can't be empirically proven iirc
No.2505
>>2504It can be though lol. Every time a strike happens it's an experiment proving LTV.
No.2506
God what a schizophrenic
No.2507
>>2504what a fucking retard lmao, materialist theory itself is based off of observable reality of the capitalist system. its fuckin the most basic empirically proven thing.
No.2508
>I don't believe things that are old are inherently good
<just as a thought experiment though, don't you think old things are inherently good?
No.2509
Hey Haz just because someone acknowledges empiricism or anglo thinking as useful doesn't make them a slave to those ideas any more than your use of non-anglo ideas make you a slave to those ideas.
No.2510
Has is a balding man, that means he's gonna Arab Lenin
No.2511
We gotta get the CPUSA Anon in here
No.2515
>>2513Xi
please fund me with tendies and type 56s
No.2517
>>2513Is the CPC is legally incorporated or are you just using the term corporation liberally ?
No.2519
Haz, what are your thoughts on Post Colonial theory?
No.2520
senpie Infrared notice me
No.2522
Haz doesn't give a shit about the core idea of marxism: The interests of the working class! That's why he is such a shill for neoliberal politicians and institutions. Just because something is friendly towards China, he believes this is in the interest of the working class!
No.2523
Can Haz explain why China opposes the new peoples army waging literal revolution against there state and have a working class and peasant base?
>>2522 No.2524
>>2521Honestly when i started browsing discord, i came into contact with a huge variety of far-right, mentally ill white assholes, and it almost got to the point where i was self-hating because of my skin color, but what saved me from being anti-white was actually just reminding myself that white people don't exist, and even if such a category did exist, it doesn't benefit people like me.
punkPunk No.2526
Infrared called me autistic even though strikes are a form of direct action
No.2527
I want a 2 hour critique of communization by Haz
No.2528
>>2520You are my Senpai
My only Senpai
You give me dokis
In shades of grey
You'll never notice me
But I still love you
Please don’t take my Senpai away ♥
No.2529
>>2527I think he'd just find a way to argue with himself.
No.2531
Oh i wish i was in the land of kittens,
Femboys, tight clothes barely fittin'
Stick it out, stick it out, stick it out for dick-see land.
In dixie land where loads get busted,
For the feeling and taste of dicks i lusted,
Stick it out, stick it out, stick it out, for dixieland.
I wish i was in dixie, oh yeah, oh yeah!
In dixie land i'll spread my ass,
For throbbing dicks in dixie.
Butts, mouths, cum down south in dixie
Butts, mouths, cum down south in dixie
No.2532
>>2526ask him the definition of 'direct action', kek
No.2533
>>2525 tfw you've never seen such an aesthetic perfection IRL
No.2534
>>2523Well, they do not oppose it, in fact, they have been accused to furthering their cause in the past. The reason they're not enthusiastic about a Maoist party is because they consider China a "revisionist state-capitalist regime" and want to overthrow the government as they give interviews in Radio Free Asia. Why would they have friendly relations with them?
The sister party of the CPC is the PKP-1930, not the CPP. So yeah.
ddrDDR No.2535
Haz, a strike directly intervenes in the process of capital
No.2536
>I won't give you a definition because it's anglo and just more words. You need to look at how people use the word and context.
That's fair, but it's also kind of a cop out, Haz. The use of the word and context still mean things, and that's what people are asking you for - your interpretation of these things. People are trying to engage with you but you're getting caught up in the anglo lens they use and not elaborating on what they actually are looking for. That's why people are saying you're schizo or not saying anything meaningful.
No.2537
my man wants to abandon language altogether
No.2538
Haz, a strike is organised direct action in the most important base of people. The workers join to gather and take an action, what is this but direct action?
No.2540
HAHA Haz believes words and definitions have no meaning, yet he is using language. Curious.
No.2541
>>2487My too, and if I was emotional about my politics, I would be a disciple of Khorne.
tankieTankie No.2542
>>2527what about infrared makes you retards so obsessed with communization? I literally haven’t seen communization mentioned on this board since like 2018.
No.2543
>>2541I won't deny that emotion plays a part of political impulse, but I've generally tried to deny it as my main motivator, otherwise I'd just be stuck in retarded southern reactionary ideology
No.2544
>>2475just listen to Hubert Drayfus
No.2545
>>2541If you don't cry when listening to old communist songs that sing of unity, friendship, and brojobs, you're doing it wrong.
No.2547
>>2546truly I've been completely destroyed, befuddled, obscured, and made into an MSpaint stickman
No.2548
>>2546FUCK how did I miss that they were live.
Positivist marxists are liberal marxists, prove me wrong. Hint:
you can't. No.2549
Thoughts on Sorel?
No.2551
Haz, china could easily fund maoist groups covertly, like the CIA did but the opposite
No.2552
>>2550Criticism isn't outright rejection of its ideas however, it is embracing that it is not the totality of beliefs contained within society. Not even the base necessarily, because it is affected by the processes of the superstructure as well.
No.2553
>Haz hates Trotskyists
>Trotskyists are big in the UK
Now it all makes sense
No.2556
>>2552the issue is that the descendants of empiricism and rationalism, the positivists, mostly reject dialectics and believe all truth is reducible to formalisms instead. even some aborted Kantians take this angle if they didn’t read Kant critically enough, like Nick Land.
No.2557
>>2528>>2520SENPAI INFRARED NOTICE ME
FUCK ANGLOS OWO OWO OWO OWO OWO
>>2530NO YOU Sue White.
No.2558
Haz, did you guys ever read some Baudrillard? What do you think about him?
No.2559
>>2557>SENPAI INFRARED NOTICE MESENPAI INFRARED NOTICED ME
FUCK I GOT THE POST WRONG OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
No.2560
>>2556and? just because some vaguely philosophically related concepts and ideas which are sorta adjacent to Marxism reject ideas like dialectics doesn't mean that marxism must also in turn because of a vague philosophical relation. hell, 99% of marxists don't engage in real philosophy.
No.2562
You've seen those Prolekult documentaries? What do you think about them?
No.2563
Why are the haters so vocal here but too shy to come on stream and talk to Haz?
No.2564
>he is going on other threads now
obsessed
No.2565
Now that Haz is done replying to you attention whores, come watch a movie with us
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/MovieNightWe have been watching some Chinese movies the past week, and we have a lot more lined up.
Tonight at 6pm EST / 11pm UTC
Red Sorghum (1988) - Zhang Yimou
>Young Jiu'er (Gong Li) is sent by her parents to marry an old leper who owns a distillery. As she is being carried over the sorghum fields, bandits attack and she is rescued by a laborer (Wen Jiang), with whom she has a son – the narrator. After the old leper dies, Jiu'er takes control of the distillery and invites the workers into a collective arrangement. But as the Sino-Japanese War peaks, barbarous Japanese troops storm onto the property determined to destroy the sorghum fields. No.2566
Language is contextual. Words and their meanings change as time goes on, alot of people here expect that language remains the same at all points in time forever.
No.2567
>>2566thanks for saying things we've already known since we were like 8
No.2568
Who was the autist who kept pushing him to read your insane wall of text in a thread all the way down the catalog?
No.2569
haz the gulags weren't built from scratch they were appropriated from Tsarist Russia
No.2571
>>2565>Now that Haz is done replying to you attention whores, come watch a movie with usSTOP BEING MEAN TO MY SENPIE
No.2572
>>2560yeah that’s another problem. many western marxists still take empiricist positive angles in their arguments showing they don’t know what dialectical materialism even is.
No.2573
>>2565Find a night to stream Pulgasari (1985); then I'll join
No.2574
>>2570Of fucking course. There are actual effort post on this website instead you link him this retarded rant saying mentally insane shit like "communism is the society of the gulag". Fuck you for your autism
No.2576
>>2571I'm not talking about Haz. I'm talking about you people saying NOTICE ME SENPAI. Haz is cool. I was lukewarm on him but he got a lot better especially after eudaimania talked to him.
>>2573Come post a link and I'll add it.
>>2575problem?
No.2577
>>2573Or do a Pasolini night; Trilogy of Life
No.2578
>>2572many "Western" marxists generally don't know shit because the left in a lot of these countries are only emerging out of a longtime destruction of the left in their countries and are like, under a decade old. people never get their shit right on the first attempt, nor will your prattling really help. they can only learn by trying and failing themselves, and itterating with our guidance.
No.2580
>>2579Movie nights don't have to be about any specific topic. It's for entertainment and culture. We have /r/lectures for informative shit (although we've only used it like once). It would be cool in Infrared would allow embedding and we could have people restream their livestreams there.
No.2581
>>2576>Haz is done replying to you attention whoresAH SHIT MY NIGGA I'M SORRY I THOUGHT YOU SHIT ON MY SENPAI
No.2583
>>2574Cannot handle the truth
No.2584
So can anyone explain to me why there is a thread dedicated to this instead of this being art of /IG/?
No.2585
>>2584Jannies are trying to spur a beef between us and infrared to mutually boost us.
No.2586
>>2463(I’m replying to you directly on here since youtube decided to automatically remove my comments)
As a German, why are you opposed to eurasianism? Creating links with Russia and China is in Germany’s interest, plus this is objectively contributing to the weakening of US global hegemony by creating a new multipolar imperialist world-order.
It’s important to remember that the more the imperialists are divided between themselves, the more likely is the chance of socialism arising. Each world war led to the expansion of socialism. Moreover, an imperialist can and will support a socialist country if it means weakening their rival’s interest, we shouldn’t have any remorse about asking for the support of an imperialist world power to gives us support, as long as it empowers socialism in the long term.
This happened in Ukraine for instance, where Russia supported the Donetsk People's Republic as well as the Luhansk People's Republic against the fascists in Ukraine, despite Russia being led by an oligarch's cock-sleeve.
Another more controversial case among Marxist-Leninist is when the US supported the quasi-socialist state of Rojava in Syria to maintain its imperialist presence in the region, showing that even the US, the most ruthless imperialist warmonger, is capable of supporting a socialist state just to further its strategic interests.
Today the People's Republic of China (which I consider to be state-capitalist) supports the DPRK and Cuba against the US, their role as defender of socialist countries cannot be understated, even if you disagree with their bizarre "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" policy.
It's not about "campism" or whatever buzzword you prefer, it's about creating fractures inside the current global capitalist world order to weaken its power over the extra long-term. Global liberalism depends on political stability, capitalist property rights and social-relations, human capital supremacy, free movement of capital and people, international cooperation as well as the flow of information. To destroy capitalism, you must first weaken the foundations of liberalism to ensure that the capitalists can't form a united front against socialism, and believe me, they will do when a socialist country will actually start to threaten their power.
For the moment, the capitalist countries are too much integrated with each other for revolution to be possible, as like I mentioned before they would not only form a united front to crush socialism, the working class in a revolutionary country would have to fight its entire army apparatus to establish socialism. This task is made significantly easier when the army is disorganized and weakened by a rival imperialist power during a war.
Unfortunately, socialism is not around the corner, the world is just way to inter-connected for a single isolated socialist country to survive (unless you want to become like the DPRK or Cuba). Sad but this is the truth.
Eurasianism in the Russian and post-soviet context represents a way to fight Western imperialist hegemony while furthering the people's need for social reforms. Putin is not really an Eurasianist, he is a Russian nationalist, he supports private monopolies and reactionary Russian imperial myths. Eurasianism is not only the fruit of Dugin's idea, but the manifestation of multiple movements across the post-soviet zone to counter the influence of global capitalist hegemony.
Then there is this new implicit “greater-eurasianism” which is still in an embryonic stage and represent the economic and political convergence of Europe, Russia and China toward a form of proto-socialist state-capitalist model. In order to maintain its supremacy, it’s absolutely essential for the US to stop this convergence by fomenting fractures between these countries so they can’t unite.
This is explicitly said by American geopolitical analysts and it’s also the guiding US foreign policy since WW2. I still don’t understand why brainlets deny it or continue to think America’s actions are guided by neoconservatives’ ideas while these are merely the justifications of the superstructure to meet the needs of the base’s imperialistic interests.
Geopolitics is harsh, it's sterile, sociopathic and devoid of humanity. But they are essential if you want to keep up in this world. You can't think in an ideological manner anymore, idealism in international relation is over, embrace realism. No revolution will survive without having an understanding of modern international relations theory.
Now to reply directly to your accusations:
>Caleb and the Grayzone are puppets of foreign governments. Caleb is obviously funded by the Russian state, the Grayzone has better ways to disguise their sponsors.I wouldn't even care if this was true, their work (especially the Grayzone) has been essential in fighting the current zeitgeist regarding China and other non-liberal nations.
>Hakim was spouting nonsense, when he praised the RAF and I just felt the need, to call him out for this.Sounds like you're just a triggered West-Germanoid.
>Wait, you are in defence of Pol Pot??No and I don't care about having this debate.
And no, I’m not Red Dundonian, I’m another guy.
tankieTankie No.2587
>>2586The levels of based are off the chart
sandinistaSandinista No.2588
Is there nobody from /leftypol/ who wants to call in and talk to these guys?
No.2589
>>2588They are going to stream like every day. There will be time for that. Also we're trying to organize a reading group to actually get people educated on the shit they're talking about.
>>2440 No.2590
>>2586I will not reply to everything, but this is my main point:
>As a German, why are you opposed to eurasianism?I'm not per se opposed to eurasianism, but I'm not convinced that it is inherently better than atlanticism.
>Creating links with Russia and China is in Germany’s interestIs it? Before Merkel, we had a staunch eurasianist chancellor - Gerhard Schröder - and he did a great job at destroying the welfare state and creating "the best low-income sector in Europe". Now he lives in Russia and is Putin's BFF.
>this is objectively contributing to the weakening of US global hegemony by creating a new multipolar imperialist world-order.Wow, and how will this bring me a decent wage and affordable housing?
I don't give a shit, if this world is becoming multipolar. At this point just want to survive. I distrust China the same way I distrust Russia and the US. All this theorizing about "breaking the imperialist order" is fun and games, but in the end I have to pay my bills. Would it objectively help the global anti-imperialist movement, if my country would be suddenly nuked? Maybe. But I personally wouldn't benefit from it. This is certain.
No.2591
This thread is full, make a new one.
No.2592
>>2591Nah, I don't think we should clutter the catalog with Infrared threads. They left their mark, we can discuss them in /IG/. They said they're gonna make a discord at 500 subs, and are active on twitter. I think it's better to discuss the theory and the thinkers they are influenced by.
No.2594
>>2592IG will be flooded every stream. Just make a thread.
No.2595
>>2594Only if he opens this site on stream again
No.2596
Why is this board being over-run by an army of parasocial streamer simps?
No.2597
>>2596cause of covid lockdowns
No.2598
>>2595Plenty of people here will watch their stream regardless.
>>2596Could it be that Infrared have something interesting to say?
No.2601
>>2595>>2594Make
him make a fucking AMA thread or whatever faggoty ass bullshit if he wants to browse the website.
No.2603
>>2490based and anti-anglo pilled
No.2605
NEW THREAD
>>70323
>>70323
>>70323
>>70323
NEW THREAD
No.2606
Haz, what is the material reason the Anglos are so cancer
Unique IPs: 1