AMERILARDS SEETHING EDITION
>>24773>Does this mean that American interference in Afghanistan was actually a good thing after all?Absolutely not.
> At least, that's what the media is painting it.All of American media, even the screeching liberal one is right now to the right of Biden. The American elite is on pure copium right now and can't even take a single L for their empire project.
>>24776>But aren't the Taliban an inherently reactionary terrorist group?Yes but so is the current Afghan government.
>Isn't liberal capitalism more progress than reactionary theocracy? You have been propagandized into believing that the former Afghan government used to be the beacon of liberal democracy and secularism there. This couldn't be further from the truth, also the Taliban controlled half of the country throughout all this time anyway.
>>24776>I'm still surprised that I saw no mention of Biden pulling out of Afghan until nowWe've been talking about it for months, you've just been under a rock.
You don't have a proper understanding of class struggle. We are socialists, interested solely in the liberation of the working class and the establishment of socialism. Soviet interference in other countries wasn't justified because it was "more progressive", but because it directly facilitated the spread of proletarian dictatorship. Nothing else matters.
The question of Afghanistan is simply "which government is more suitable for the growth of proletarian power?". We can't know that the Taliban are going to be better yet, but it would be very difficult for them to match the repression of a US backed puppet state.
>>24777>>24778So the United States failed multiple coups and regime changes and is now pulling out of Afghanistan. Is this it, the waning of the empire? What else is there? The Syrian wars? The dialectics are truly in motion, aren't they?
>>24781I would consider "proletarian dictatorship" as more progressive. But I understand. And yes, I've really been under a rock sadly. The pandemic combined with extensive college work has turned me into a slave with no free time.
>>24779The humiliation of Kabul shows that the US was
driven from Afghanistan, that it did not leave willingly. It is clear to everyone that Biden did not bow America out of the region on its own terms, the military fled from the ruins of its own project.
>>24779He didn't end it though. From the time Obama got elected, everyone was assuming they'd pull out the troops and the government would keep teetering onward. Not the moment they start pulling out, the Taliban fucking blitzes the country in two weeks and precipitates another Saigon.
20 years ""progress"" gone in a fucking puff of smoke.
>>24779A reporter on aussie news summed it up best.
The damage control plan for the yanks was to leave and have the afghan government teeter back and forth for a year or so until the majority of the public stopped paying attention and then the Tali’s would take over.
Instead the Taliban does the Tet offensive on PCP and takes the entire place in 10 days
>>24779I dunno. Biden's people seem to be reckoning that most people don't give a shit – and besides, football season is starting soon. I think people will argue about it online for a few days, and then forget about it. It's not like the public was paying attention to Afghanistan in the past decade anyways. There were only a few thousand troops based there for years and years.
Most of the people freaking out about it seem to be D.C. think-tankers and journalist dweebs who are like "how could this have gone so wrong!?!?" I dunno guys, read your own reporting about it…
>>24787There are a lot of differences. Some similarities. One similarity I think is how anticlimactic it really was on ground. The NVA tanks rolled into Saigon, and aside from the dramatic images of people getting on boats and clinging to helicopters, life on the street pretty much returned to normal within a day. Markets reopened, and the only real difference is that you started seeing street merchants selling new flags and portraits of Ho Chi Minh. They didn't just flip the communist switch. Even today, the economies haven't been fully integrated (apparently).
But that's one difference in the U.S. – the loss in Vietnam was seen as a blow in this ideological conflict and the right held onto that grudge death-grip style. For non-Burgers, there's a thing here in the U.S. called the "POW/MIA" symbol and flag which arose after the Vietnam War alleging that Vietnam still held American prisoners after the war ended, but backstabbing liberals and the media were covering it up. It's like a stabbed-in-the-back myth. One of the Rambo movies from the 1980s is about Rambo going back to Vietnam on a mission to free the POWs but he's stymied by "corrupt Washington bureaucrats" too (the enemy within!). Crazy shit.
Another difference… Republican presidents presided over the withdrawal (Nixon/Ford), but this is a Democrat doing it. At the Obama "surge" peak in 2011, the U.S. had around 100,000 troops in Afghanistan. In Vietnam, it was 550,000. And way more bloodier combat. The U.S. lost 10,000 aircraft in Vietnam. In Afghanistan, it's probably in the hundreds?
>>24779It's crocodile tears from the press (including people who were responsible for the invasion in the first place) and the usual partisan "oppose everything the other party does" shit.
This is definitely a positive for him in the long-run, everyone will remember "Biden got us out of Afghanistan" and not care about the details.
>>24796He referred to those white devil cuntass american posters. Read again, anon.
Focus more.
Thoughts on this? It was posted a lot before the Bunkerchan split.
https://libya360.wordpress.com/2019/03/18/2020-and-the-end-of-the-american-empire/
>One of the visions stirred up by this political fascism described by Galtung are ones referring to “exceptionalism” and the notion of the struggle “between good and evil” to which all imperial war ideology would be reduced. The messianism of the United States in this last stage would lead the country to suicidal wars, at a great cost for the world and for the American population and economy itself. Fascism would have, at its base, a personality cult of a leader and a powerful state.>The growing evidence of decline would lead the empire to desperate wars, in what Galtung calls a “flight forward”, in order to conquer the Eurasian region, which is geostrategically dominant in the world. The end of the agreements with Iran, the distance with respect to Turkey and India, the manifest rivalry with China and the failure of the agreements with North Korea, point to the fact that the United States seeks to extend its interests in the Eurasian region to the field of war, in order, through a stroke of audacity, to regain control of a world region that would secure its global dominance for a hundred more years.>>24806US, Canada, UK
The Russian Embassy will meet with the Taliban.
Other embassy will probably do the same as Russia
>>24815if the only conclusion you end up is "they're idiots who are acting against their own interests",you should maybe think you're the one wrong,but no,pol can't do that.
bunch of faggots.
>>24815>/pol/>/pol/>/pol/o b s e s s e d
b
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>>24776Here's the Communist (Maoist) Party of Afghanistan's view of the situation, they think both sides are compradors, the IRA having more bourgeois characteristics and the Taliban having more feudal characteristics, but both are feudal-bourgeois compradors dependent on global-imperialism.
Reminder that the good guys lost 30 years ago, the Taliban and the Islamic Republic are both bastards but at least America is gone.
https://twitter.com/neememes/status/1424138165099671557 >>24832Holy shit.
How bad was life under these people between 1995-2001 seriously???
Some interesting info on who might potentially recognize the Taliban government. About China though, the only source suggesting they might recognize them is an article by The Economist. After reading it, it doesn't seem too convincing tbh. It's really all just speculation and propagandizing, the only comment by a Chinese official they cite is this one, by their foreign minister, on a meeting with a Taliban official:
>"We hope the Afghan Taliban will make a clean break with all terrorist organizations including the ETIM and resolutely and effectively combat them to remove obstacles, play a positive role and create enabling conditions for security, stability, development and cooperation in the region,"What might happen is if they cut all ties with the ETIM they could potentially recognize them, only time will tell. Probably a lot of countries consistently opposed to American geopolitical interests will recognize the new government eventually. Here's the wiki article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Emirate_of_Afghanistan#2021%E2%80%93presentAnd the article from The Economist about China
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/china-preparing-to-recognize-taliban-if-kabul-falls-says-report/articleshow/85292773.cms>>24853Is that unexpected?
>>24852Do you need some Marxist philosophical rigor to understand this? They are a rural people with a literacy rate in the 30-40 range. They were attacked for decades by a world superpower. They resorted to violence and anyone who can protect them.
>>24854>he said they aren't reactionaryreading comprehension
>>24850you are the soyjak for denying that this is the case for moralistic reasons. its a not a value judgement of afghans who rightfully liberated themselves to say that they are objectively reactionary, they are largely salafists and their more ideologically involved figures would probably enthusiastically agree that they are reactionary
you have a baby brain
>>24860Barely anyone is saying this
THOUGH, stop derailing the thread.
>>24833I don't think these are just average citizens that lived through the previous Taliban rule and would now rather die than wear a burqa or grow a full beard again. Nor are they probably composed of every openly homosexual man and e-thot in Kabul, because I don't think that so many random civilians would volunteer to trap themselves at the airport and hope that they could get a lift from the Americans when they already have problems getting their own fat asses off the country.
Most of these are probably people that collaborated with the occupation and they therefore think that they have a decent chance that burgers might also take their vassals with them. Above all that they probably did some shit that they know will end up hanging into the Kabul city centre lamp-post. Like imagine if you were translating for some enhanced interrogation sessions at Pul-e-Charkhi prison until about a month ago and now Taliban have set all those fuckers free and now the same people you helped to torture are roaming the streets of Kabul armed and dangerous and looking for your sorry ass and If your really unlucky your whole extended family too.
>>24862seethe, westoid
>>24861everyone who is so confused about all of the 'support' for the most evil people in history, the taliban
>>24836Najibullah tried to leave but couldn't
Ghani was allowed to leave
>>24869>the 444444You mean tag no 444444 or…
>me?>>24876Oh thanks for the filtereds! Gotta smoke them all next morning!
>>24874exactly the problem with the incessant 'opposition'
>>24877then please continue to make post after post about how they are bad in a totally not moralizing way
>>24879it was sarcasm. sigh.
>>24880Oh. Because when I post sometimes I use the 44444 username though in the past.
>>24881>ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh muh sarcasmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!22222222222211111111111112No it isn't anon
>>24884>Stand around the airport until the last flight inevitably leaves?Probably, in the name of "securing troops and vulnerable Afghans"
>vulnerableTo "anti-American ideals" and whatever king burger peddles to them
Some info on the Iranian-Saudi rivalry's relation to Afghanistan"
>The rivalry has contributed to the ongoing instability in Afghanistan. Afghanistan shares historical ties with Iran, but is strategically important to Saudi Arabia. After the Cold War, Saudi policy shifted from fighting the spread of communism to containing Iranian influence in South and Central Asia.[149]
>Saudi Arabia was one of three countries to officially recognize the Sunni Taliban government in 1996, along with its allies Pakistan and the United Arab Emirates. During the Afghan Civil War, Iran and Saudi Arabia supported opposing militant factions. Iran assisted the Shia Hezb-e Wahdat, while Saudi Arabia provided financial support to the Wahhabist Ittihad-e Islami.[392]
>In 2001, the invasion of Afghanistan and the removal of the Taliban in the wake of the September 11 attacks benefited Iran, which had previously been on the brink of war with the group. The regime change removed Iran's primary threat along its eastern borders, and the removal of Saddam Hussein two years later further bolstered its position, allowing it to refocus its efforts on other areas, especially Syria and Yemen.[393] In the ensuing years, Iran sought to expand its influence over Afghanistan. It provided limited support to the Taliban as a potential means of increasing leverage with the Afghan central government and creating a deterrent to conflict with the United States, although the support waned amid growing backlash in Afghanistan against perceived Iranian interference.[394] Iran has also sought to expand soft influence by building pro-Iranian schools, mosques, and media centers, and by maintaining close ties with Afghanistan's Tajik and Hazara populations.[394]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_proxy_conflict>>24802>It just blows me away how it wasn't enough for burgers to try to exterminate the indigenous people of north america, but they have to name their imperialist war machines after themTo be fair, the Pentagon won't name a weapon after a tribe without permission from the tribal leaders.
Pic: Lakota Indians, Lakota helicopter
>>24889that was my question
>>24887no one has to 'support' them (meaningless anyways), but the insistence on treating them like they are Al Qaeda fits the imperialist narrative of 'humanitarian' intervention
About 2 hours ago, the U.N. Security Council had a meeting about the situation. Here are some important speeches, in the order of appearance:
🇦🇫 Afghanistan (04:38) – Urges for the UN to use every means at its disposal to call on the Taliban to: Stop violence, respect human rights and international law. Provide an exit corridor for anyone trying to leave the country. Accept the amnesty offered to them, cease target-killing and revenge attacks. Not destroy public infrastructure and works of art.
Calls for an inclusive, representative transitional government, including minorities and women. Also calls for neighboring countries to open their borders and accept refugees.
🇺🇸 USA (19:36) – Calls Taliban to respect human rights, and not to kill civilians. To allow safe passage of humanitarian aid agents. Everyone who wants to leave must be allowed to. Calls neighbours to accept refugees.
Also (22:55): PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS MADE CLEAR THAT ANY ACTION THAT PUTS U.S. PERSONNEL OR A MISSION AT RISK WILL BE MET WITH A SWIFT AND STRONG MILITARY RESPONSE
🇷🇺 Russia (49:19) – We urge all afghan parties to refrain from hostilities. The international community must help Afghanistan together. The Russia-China-Pakistan troika is onto this, but we believe Iran could play an important role here. We will interact with the Taliban irrespective of their specific actions and the evolving situation. According to our reports, the Taliban have begun seeking to establish public order and have also confirmed security guarantees to civilians and diplomats. For now, our embassy in Kabul continues to operate normally.
🇨🇳 China (56:37) – A political solution is the only way out for Afghanistan. China take's note of what the Taliban has said yesterday: That they pretend to establish an open, inclusive, Islamic government, and to maintain the safety of the citizens and foreign missions in the country. China expects that these commitments to be fulfilled. We hope the Taliban will unite with all parties and ethnic groups to establish a broad and inclusive political structure that suits its national conditions in order to lay the foundations to achieve lasting peace. In the last 20 yeas, terrorist organizations such as ISIS, Al-Qaeda and ETIM have gathered in Afghanistan, posing a security threat to neighboring countries. Afghanistan must never again become a haven for terrorists. We hope that Taliban will make a clear break with terrorist organizations.
The international community should step up its humanitarian aid to Afghanistan and neighboring countries, to alleviate the situation for afghan citizens and immigrants. We learned that some neighboring countries requested to participate in this meeting. It's regrettable that their participation was denied.
The chaos we see now is the result of hasty withdrawal of foreign troops. Relevant countries should earnestly deliver a commitment to support peace, reconciliation and reconstruction in Afghanistan, and play a constructing role.
>>24920>but in a sober and non-provocative wayIf previous threads are anything to go on, being sober is apparently provocative.
>being a leftist isn't just about condemning reactionariesNo, it isn't. But recognizing them as still your opposition is.
You guys think it's possible the Taliban turn into the new Hamas? What I mean by that is that they end up siding thoroughly with the Axis of Resistance rather than Saudi Arabia and company. With Hamas it was a similar situation, originally being part of the Muslim Brotherhood they weren't completely friendly with Iran and were open hostile against the Ba'athist government in Syria, due to the long history of conflict between the MB and the government, even supporting the rebels at the start of the civil war. Though after some pressure from Iran who had become their main aid provider they switched sides in favor of the government, and in 2017 become unaffiliated with the MB.
I think the Taliban has the potential to go through a similar process, after all Hamas are Sunni islamists too, so it's not completely impossible. I also think their Deobandi sect of Sunni Islam is more acceptable of religious minorities, at least in comparison with other Sunni strands like Wahhabism. Also how they seem to be more integrated into international relations and seeking diplomatic recognition, they might be softer than in the past. Probably what would need to happen for this to materialize is their complete unaffiliation and suspension of all ties with al Qaeda, who are definitely hardcore anti-Shia and would never seek an alliance with Iran or other Iranian allies. Between choosing al Qaeda or the stronger and more influential AoR, they might choose the latter as a means to guarantee consistent stability.
>>24941I dunno. Meanwhile…
BREAKING NEWS: Live from Kabul. Taliban official Abdul Hamid Hamasi visited a hospital in Kabul and assured the female doctors to continue their work and said that they will not be harmed.
I'll be back later with further updates on the angry Muslim savages who are marauding across Afghanistan and throwing its people into an eternal nightmare pit of slavery!
>>24915>it was a grift my dude. take the flag off. join usI dont think the left has the answers. It has the critiques but not the answers. It's in a very confused place amidst the confrontation between liberalism vs nationalism at home and liberalism vs backwards countries abroad. Right now the left seems only able to rationalize liberalism as more progressive because the alternative is trump/brexit, Assad, putin, erdogan, and so on.
The left is confused on how to achieve independence when one side is neoliberal and the other reactionary by its own metrics
>>24956>Right now the left seems only able to rationalize liberalism as more progressive because the alternative is trump/brexit, Assad, putin, erdogan, and so on. These are literally all still liberal.
>The left is confused on how to achieve independence when one side is neoliberal and the other reactionary by its own metricsNeither of these are "answers" themselves, because neither actually fundamentally changes the system in the way that matters in the long run.
>>24927holy shit
>>24928i'm not so sure. the fact they can't keep people away from the planes doesn't speak to them having the situation under any kind of control.
i suppose for the press it's one thing, but if i was in the US government i'd rather have to explain why a few people were shot than explain how people managed to crowd the runway and grab onto our plane. the former is just "to keep a bad situation under control", the latter is a confession the situation was completely out of control
>>24960>so you want to pick the winning side instead of the correct side, even though you probably aren't an actual winner, i.e., bourgeoisNo. I just don't want to become a commie only to support liberalism ad infinitum because the revolutionary class never develops and we are just perpetually at war with reaction that over time is less traditional elite and more petit bourgeois. Picrel.
I have no interest in fighting for the democrats against the hinterlands because nobody knows how to organize past divisions of race etc. despite our advanced conditions and liberal unipolarity is threatened by capitalism failing
>>24963>These are literally all still liberal.Trump/brexit, Assad, putin, etc. are still liberal? I get
>Neither of these are "answers" themselves, because neither actually fundamentally changes the system in the way that matters in the long runYes that's true
>>24977Well, to continue your favored Qing China analogy, the hinterlands are the base of the Boxers. It would've been harder for a successful KMT revolution without the initial defeat of the ridiculous Boxers. The populist right base is basically like that, where in a way, the politics of the American hinterlands are unresolved issues stemming from the 1860's war. "White supremacy" is a thing in America, but mainly in places influenced by the culture stemming from the slave plantation economy that was eventually crushed by the Northern bourgeoisie.
In a way, the political legacy of the Confederacy, which today manifests itself most strongly in the GOP, has always been in favor of grotesque inequality as a means for corralling the population. I'm just saying this to say that all of it is entirely unsustainable, and in its current form of melding Trumpist populism with evangelical Christianity is one of the most frustrating ideologies to have to contend with. Going back to your China analogy, imagine being a young Marxist and watching those Boxers fuck everything up while claiming to be the ones who would beat the Qing and foreigners.
>People took up arms to defend themselves against the Taliban and prevent a nightmare like a fundamentalist Islamic state. Still, each time they faced defeat and betrayal of the Afghan government. Their struggle was constantly suppressed and appropriated by governments and short-sighted political parties. Until the latest news, the Taliban have entered Kabul and want to take over Afghanistan.
>In the first place, such a government would deal with intellectuals and the younger generation who don’t share the Taliban’s reactionary views. We fear that our comrades and other Afghan freedom fighters will be slaughtered in front of our eyes, as happened at the beginning of the Islamic regime in Iran. The world watched with open eyes the killing of the oppositions of the Islamic Republic.
>Anarchism in Afghanistan is young, and our forces are small. Yet, we are pursuing different avenues to resist the Taliban’s advance because there is a small revolutionary capacity for a free, autonomous, and democratic society in Afghanistan that must be defended. Unfortunately, global and inhumane plans were predetermined so precisely to block any effective activity.
>Some of our Anarchist comrades in Afghanistan even prepared for illegal immigration, but they still hit roadblocks and could not escape the crisis. Now that everything is over and the Taliban are exactly on the verge of taking power, the danger to the lives of the anarchists has reached its peak.
>Now, our and their latest efforts must coordinate a path for them to leave. This is possible either through financial cooperation so that they can enter neighboring countries either legally or by smuggling them across borders, or through our formal or informal international relations to get them asylum in safe countries, if possible.https://www.anarchistcommunism.org/2021/08/16/afghan-anarchists-need-to-leave-afghanistan-urgently/Donate:
http://asranarshism.com/donation/?fbclid=IwAR1kXxaOsVRn9b3kw02StazkwOP4KjCIH25jbf19RvwKoCeW1GQu0yTqnD8 >>25007>Plenty of far leftists do. They do it in proportion to nationalism or the far right adopting anti capitalism and anti war, then accuse anyone who doesn't do it of being red brown Michael Tracey Glenn Greenwald types who support settler colonialism and favor anti imperialism because they like Assad Where is the proof? No one on the far-right, or any far-right nationalist for that matter, is adopting anti-capitalism as well.
>It's 'make the nation state great again' versus 'make the bourgeoisie/liberalism progressive again'These are effectively the same things at their underlying base. That is to say, they are both just obfuscations of the material social relation willing to be preserved.
>>24827>Reminder that the good guys lost 30 years ago, the Taliban and the Islamic Republic are both bastards but at least America is gone.The same people you post here
resisted the communist rule in the 80s, side by side with islamist forces. Fuck them, fuck their opportunism.
>>24977>No. I just don't want to become a commie only to support liberalism ad infinitum because the revolutionary class never develops and we are just perpetually at war with reaction that over time is less traditional elite and more petit bourgeois. Picrel."Communist" isn't organization, its a fucking political and economic position, with the proper conception being that based in Marx. I'm a communist because communism is the only way forward, and because Marx was entirely correct in his analysis. Everyone else could be liberal shills, and I would still be a communist. At no point is any communist supporting liberalism regardless, particularly in our current context.
>I have no interest in fighting for the democrats against the hinterlands because nobody knows how to organize past divisions of race etc. despite our advanced conditions and liberal unipolarity is threatened by capitalism failing Who the fuck here is fighting for the democrats? And our whole argument is to organize past divisions.
>Trump/brexit, Assad, putin, etc. are still liberal? I get Yes, they are. How are they not? They literally operate in and defend a liberal framework, both politically and economically.
>>25002>>25000Reminder that when empires collapse the last thing that usually collapses is the veneer of invincibility, because rot had set in ages ago and had eaten the innards away leaving nothing but a husk behind. They don't really go on life support. When the collapse comes it doesn't come in an instant, but it still does come relatively quickly, maybe a few decades at most. We might already be living through the dying of America and have done so for years now. The truth of it might only become apparent afterwards when it has already happened.
When the time finally comes for burger empire historians will probably look at the august 15th 2021 as one of the milestones of burger decay if not one of the tipping points that sent the final endgame into motion.
>>24815Unironically a based take
America (and by extension) the west is a degenerate society by every metric
Mark my words in 20 years Burgers will be launching nuclear warheads at China because China doesnt accept giving porn to children like the degenerate West is now advocating
>>24790>what's tear gasI guess is cheaper one minute flight of an apache than 20 tear gas canisters.
LMAO.
>>24762Of course, it could.
picrel
>>24811Probably infight between ultras and MLs.
>>24928do we have footage of this?
does anyone know what season/episode of snowpiercer they shoot people boarding the train?
>>250691) Confiscate all previous governments papers about it
2) Scope it out
3) Take on previous governments contracts if possible
4) Beg for investment
5) do some more begging
6) Finally china builds a lithium mine
7)???
8) Profit
9) Use the money for a nuclear program and nuke Israel
>>25072One common argument I hear from the western left is that imperialism changed, where basically there is no progressive bourgeoisie opposed to imperialism just a bunch of contending classes some of which the socialists make 'campist' alliances with.
I also notice this same left says liberals are a lesser evil and the bourgeoisie is still progressive as it globalizes and sort of expands democracy past the western nation-state.
>>25074>bourgeoisie is still progressive as it globalizesthis can be a take
>and sort of expands democracynot this. 'democracy' in any form currently existing within or under the watch of an imperialist power is not democracy, there is simply no voting that matters when the entire system is controlled by one class.
The previous point, that 'capitalism doing things is ever drawing it closer to its own destruction' is of course true. We can see this as large companies like amazon lay logistical groundwork, but to aknowledge that capitalists are moving things along in favorable ways does not mean that they are moving them along in the most favorable way and that they should just be left to do their own thing because surely one day they will defeat themselves, even if they in fact would, because that history would not have been the most favorable history.
>>25088Woke imperialism will be a thing, but it will just mean the same old Atlantic liberal imperialism tailored to contrast itself with a generalized illiberal threat seen across developing and middle income countries as well as dying parts of the western nation-state.
It will also be based on soft power and multilateral diplomacy, not war.
>>25093I think this is overexaggerating the impact of ideology on the imperial administration. The main reason the puppet regime failed is because it was completely ruled by money. The US tried to solve a lot of its problems and get some darn stability by throwing cash around, and it resulted in shit we saw with Taliban troops chilling in mini-palaces built for high ranking Afghan officials. Barely any of the money funneled into the national government made its way down to the grunts and clerks.
It's important to remember this as the years go by, just like with Vietnam there will be a new Dolchstosslegende for why the US lost. Will it be the gays? The blacks? The ethnic US troops? Beijing paid Biden off? Who knows, we'll see.
>>25075You're forgetting one very important metric for measuring the scale of this defeat: cost.
America sold its future for this stupid fucking war. It may not happen in 3 short years like in the USSR's case but losing a war in Afganistan has a tendency to collapse nations.
>>24927So what's the plan anyway. Somehow not get peeled and die from cold/lack of oxygen when the plane gets higher?
Also , are these people like… US collaborators? How come they are allowed anywhere near the plane to begin with. Do they not fear attacks?
>>25098Maybe it is, but foundational to our imperial ideology is the idea it represents universal human development. Its inability to make this create a national government out of Afghanistan is a disaster, particularly when you remember that the last handful of decades have been a frenzy of global capitalist development and growth of liberal unipolarity.
The middle east these last two decades have proven liberalism is failing at answering democratic and developmental questions outside of conditions where there was a progressive national bourgeoisie that reformed the country into modernity, like the West.
We hoped an advanced kind of liberalism would essentially let us skip that phase of development with an international order and idea of shared capitalist growth. This paired with post-national ideology at home, similarly hoping that liberalism would stitch together and reform what the nation-state couldn't.
The opposite is happening. Our destruction of Arab nationalism paved the way to islamism, not liberalism. Our destruction of the Eastern bloc paved the way for new ethnic squabbles, not liberalism. Finally, our post-national development in the west paved the way not for the dissolution of the history the nation-state couldn't get past and integrate into one universal humanity, it paved the way for the opposite.
Finally, liberalism becoming the sole ideological alternative following 1991 meant *more*, not less, post ideological cultural conflicts. Those conflicts gripped the middle east and eastern europe, and in the 2010s spread to western Europe and America.
All of this is explained by material conditions and social classes, because capitalism is no longer progressive and neither is liberalism. They are incapable of dissolving history, and in the absence of the revolutionary class promised by the communists, that history just continues to get worse. Barbarism.
>>25106On one side
>Organized high-spirited militia with support on both cities and countrysideOn the other
>Army and airforce that either defected or fled to neighbor countriesI'm sure that's the current situation in the US of A.
>>25065So he was negotiating peaceful transition, but better break the deals by simply leaving the country?
lel
>>25134I guess they waited to see how much money they could gather before leaving.
Anyway, all the people leaving is probably those full of $$$. Without U.S. direct connections, their money is worthless, and that's probably the reason they would stick to the chassis of a CH-130 before staying there.
>>25148Yeah, of course is cope. talibans are not the angels in the heaven coming to save afghanistan
The U.S. only wanted to have their poppy fields, now the talibans do the poppy production, the US didn't have a reason to stay.
>>25153Well, blinken said recently that the Russian and Chinese intel agencies are pulling that weird idea of the U.S. losing their hegemon.
I have never seen Russian nor Chinese intel agencies claiming that openly, like the CIA claimed once in the 00s that Russia would collapse and balkanize. Maybe the media, but media is not intel per se.
So if blinken is highlighting this, maybe some high-level libs are aware.
>>25154I know US presence in Afghanistan lasted so long, it's legally allowed to post on imageboards, but did you read what Taliban like before US invaded? Being "sure" that what will follow is
less executions is absolute cope.
>>25163>at least the Taliban winning means that the influence of the imperialist superpower will collapse in the regionThey're planning on integrating with capitalism. A few years and the US will be back, or its corporations will. There's trillions in rare earth metals and other valuable mineral resources under Afghanistan.
And besides, you say that like China and Russia aren't imperialist superpowers.
>>25154>There's trillions in rare earth metals and other valuable mineral resources under Afghanistan.According to US military, anyway. A piece of information that gets rolled out each time the discussion of pulling out of Afghanistan comes up.
https://www.mining.com/1-trillion-motherlode-of-lithium-and-gold-discovered-in-afghanistan/>June 16, 2010>A recently unearthed 2007 United States Geological Service survey appears to have discovered nearly $1 trillion in mineral deposits in Afghanistan>In 2004, American geologists, sent to Afghanistan as part of a broader reconstruction effort, stumbled across an intriguing series of old charts and data at the library of the Afghan Geological Survey in Kabul that hinted at major mineral deposits in the country.>They soon learned that the data had been collected by Soviet mining experts during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s, but cast aside when the Soviets withdrew in 1989.A whole trillion dollaridoos worth of deposits! That's been known for 30 years, and nobody bothered with.
>>25167There have been reports in the media for years about how unreliable the Afghan National Army has been. Exploitative and abusive commanders, high turnover rate in lower ranks, outright desertion, theft, embezzlement, and in constant need of American resources in order to defeat the Tabliban in combat, especially the intervention of the US Airforce.
I think the Americans knew it was going to be bad. They've been pleading for some kind of deal for the past few years and the Taliban have been telling them to go pound sand. They'd have to know that the second they were gone the ANA would just collapse. They'd made an utter cock of it. That's why they just ducked out in the middle of the night.
>>25168>Now, Afghanistan elders say the Taliban will take away their daughters and forcefully marry them and turn them into slaves. "Since the Taliban took over, we feel depressed. At home, we can’t speak loudly, can’t listen to music and can’t send women to the Friday market.
<They are asking about family members. The [Taliban] sub-commander said you should not keep girls over the age of 18; it’s sinful, they must get married," Haji Rozi Baig, an Afghan elder, was quoted as saying by the Financial Times.https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/taliban-issue-rules-in-captured-afghan-districts-for-women-men-101625289058314.html<July 13
>Taliban have issued new laws and regulations in recently captured districts in Afghanistan's northeastern province of Takhar ordering women to not leave home alone and men to grow their beards among other diktats, reports have said.
>Ariana News cited civil society activists in Takhar as saying that the Taliban have also have set dowry regulations for girls. “They urged women in a statement to not leave without a relative (Moharam) and also urged men to have beards,” Merajuddin Sharifi, a civil society activist in Takhar, was quoted as saying by Ariana News. Sharifi also said the “Taliban insist on trials without evidence.”Based "Anti-Imperialism" at work.
>>25180I've been saying this and I will say it again, very few people here will be like "Taliban fuck yeah" instead we're happy because even when they Talibs are awful at least their idiocy and reactionary shit will only affect afgha instead of the whole region.
And again, the people seems to support them, what you gonna do? force them to be like you? good luck!
>>25179Japan industrialized and exploited Manchukuo better in 13 years than US did Afghanistan in 20.
>The whole imperial adventure was to set up a liberal puppet state to facilitate its exploitation by resource-hungry corporations.And this is absolute horseshit. Geological surveys came AFTER the invasion.
>>25180Pure CIA media leaving aside the facts. Like if the Afghan population wasn't already this conservative before.
One of the reasons they took back the country is that the people indeed behave like that, or else they would support the puppet regime.
Those "warnings" are just pure formalizing things.
>>25185Pure liberal cope. Next step you will say the only way to deal with them is by dropping a nuke.
>>25046Based. Fuck Angloid media
It’s funny how the synthetic leftists + Glowfags defend the BBC (literal British imperial state propaganda agency)
>>25202>so many are desperately trying to the fleeing the airport? lmao, those are the ones keeping alive ghani, of course, they will run like cockroaches.
>during the wareveryone runs away from bombs.
Keep coing. I won't buy more liberal propaganda about muh abuses from taliban, when the US is showing they abuse the population to the same or worst degree.
>>448877>>25204treating "the population" as one homogeneous mass is a silly idea, doubly so in a country with a massive urban-rural divide.
if you're living in Kabul, the most prosperous and cosmopolitan city in the country, you're probably going to have a worse time under the Taliban than under the US. Imagine if one day everyone in LA was suddenly forced to live in conformance with the social norms of a 1940s flyover state.
at least
>>25205 has the benefit of being internally consistent and partially true. (yeah, if you were working with the US you'd probably want to get the fuck out. especially if you're one of the ones America offered to get out, then turned around and started going "well actually, we need space on the jet for the McDonalds deep fryer… sorry")
>>25206I know, but that stupidity of believing the population now will be doomed, is pure liberal cope. The same liberals for years telling that they would give freedums to Afghans, while they bombed indiscriminately, while they lied about the casualities and the success.
Image believing you would place ISIL in the middle of Argentina and they would succeed to conquer in ten days the whole country. Nonsense. The people there in Afghanistan support the taliban. The only thing the western liberals can do is show them the benefits of leaving the strict religious beliefs, but then again, they would love to pay taxes to instead of having better things, to keep the bombing on innocents (+whatever "lucky" target they actually can hit)
>>25202Listen fellow commie, you have been deceived by woke CIA propaganda, we must stand with the Chadiban. The people there like it, if they didn't they would be fighting harder. No, it's their culture and so it's a good thing. For now, critical support. Who knows, the Chadiban may surprise you with how tolerant they can be at times.
Also, very unbased and liberal of you , comrade. Surely the USA is bad, yes? Then Taliban good, yes? Glad we agree.
Now hold still I need to get a screenshot of this thread to Vaush's fbi.gov to show them how based and redpilled we are. Smile!
>>25209Listen fellow commie, you have been deceived by woke CIA propaganda, we must stand with the Nazis. The people there like it, if they didn't they wouldn't have elected them. No, it's their culture and so it's a good thing. For now, critical support. Who knows, the Nazis may surprise you with how tolerant they can be at times.
Also, very unbased and liberal of you , comrade. Surely the USA is bad, yes? Then Nazi good, yes? Glad we agree.
>>25211Ghani didn't pay his soliders in the last few months.
There have been numerous reports showing the army just takes bribes from the Taliban or sells them their weapons and then desert to the Taliban or just take their profit and go back to their lives.
The afghan army before america announcing its departure, was so bad that 50% of its officers and personnel would desert within a year
They also had these things called "ghost armies". Commanders lied about how many soliders they had and the government paid them more money than they needed to supply their troops. When the fight came to them, they surrendered and took their money with them.
>>25215The us doesn't care about Afghanistan. It cares about the money it can extract from the war. The money that should have gone to the Afghanistan army and local development was probably just laundered to the rich instead.
And there's definitely plenty of ghost soldiers there as well.
>>25216genuinely think someone could write an excellent comedy film about the UK/US experience in Afghanistan.
from handing over weapons to guys who'll hand them right over to your enemy, to throwing loads of money at the most flagrantly corrupt bastards you could find, to all of the incidents of "well some guy who knew for definite said that there was a taliban bloke at this wedding, so we carped bombed the wedding and uh, turns out he probably wasn't taliban but now all of the families of the wedding-goers are…" moments.
a bunch of guys from the society that put a man on the moon and built gigantic global surveillance networks just constantly being outsmarted and clowned on by "illiterate goat herders"
>>25218this talking point comes up a lot but it's worth noting that they
did fight the Taliban. The Afghan army took something like 70,000 casualties (more than the US in Vietnam) from a population about the size of Canada's.
>>25229Well, if they
really opposed the Taliban they would have
fought harder and
won. Which they didn't.
What does that say? Exactly. The Afghans support the Taliban.
Stop projecting your western values upon these noble savages, you colonizer.
>>25075People talk about ideology and the "failure" of liberalism as exposed by the Afghanistan war. And it's like, yeah, sure. But if there were some losers, who were the winners? The Afghan war might not have been so bad for pharma companies and the military-industrial firms. It kept a lot of contractors in business, that's for sure. They have names like Lockheed Martin, DynCorp, Black & Veatch, Academi (formerly Blackwater), and the oil companies that ship the fuel on which the Army runs. You see some U.S. elite freaks saying, oh no, the Taliban have seized all of that equipment that the U.S. supplied to the ANA… which was bought from these private companies which profited mightily from the war. So those companies didn't really "lose."
Plus, the U.S. pivot to the Pacific now, and they need to scale back the Army a bit and focus on the Navy.
>>25161Countdown to that clip of Taliban in bumper cars showing up in an Adam Curtis film.
>>25223Pretty much. The money spigot and contractors propping up the army pulled out. I think the "war" inside Afghanistan was really over money with different tribal chieftains parasitically leeching off U.S. aid and having their local people (poor peasants) becoming part of the ANA or ANP (Afghan National Police). Local, corrupt warlords with their dudes who the U.S. would hire, train and equip. But it's just like a grift. The tribal leaders are leeching off the U.S. military / USAID / contractors, who are leeching off the U.S. empire, and there's a whole economy constructed around this grift – which has also distorted the country's development – organized in a vertical fashion with people at different levels of the pyramid sucking from the flow of money.
The reason why the transfer of power is so peaceful is because there's nothing left to fight over. Mommy pulled the milk bottle out of baby's mouth. Also, there isn't really a change in the class character of the Afghan government happening. It's the still the same tribal chieftains and feudal landlords running it as before. Instead, you have a change in administration, from one group of chieftains to another – to one that was posturing as an anti-imperialist force, but is now going to have to rule a country full of those poor peasants without an empire to rally them against. How will that work out? We'll find out sooner or later.
>>25234No, the ones who won are the people of Afghanistan by reclaiming their land from the foreign invaders. Now that the US is no longer oppressing the Afghan people, they can truly return to their customs and
show the world their values. God willing the Afghans will find security in an economic partnership with China, perhaps through their mineral
and opium resources and show the world what happens when the US, rescinds it's influence.
>>25234The Taliban was also making money this whole time… from the United States. It's not like the lines between that local tribal dude or neighborhood mafia who is leeching off the U.S. empire and the Taliban are clear cut. Probably something like 1/3 of the guys in the army and the police were "Taliban" all along. Or two different extended families would fight each other over who gets to be the leader of a town, and over whose illiterate cousins get to fill up the ranks of the local police force. Or they'd take the money and guns and then just run off with them.
My only other take is that it's a good thing that the U.S. is leaving. Liberalism, democracy, blah blah blah, it's a bunch of horseshit. It's as phony and full of crap in Afghanistan as it is in America.
>>25236>No, the ones who won are the people of Afghanistan by reclaiming their land from the foreign invadersThey are the ones who lost the most.
>they can truly return to their customs and show the world their valuesThe barbaric actions and beliefs of the Taliban do not represent the people of Afghanistan. They are in the same vain as the rest of the alt right filth that wish to return to the "good old days" that never existed.
>>25238>The Taliban was also making money this whole timeMost definitely.
>>25239And the Taliban got an upgrade. They've got equipment and modern office space in Kabul and high-speed internet which means they can probably run the country, maybe, or at least for awhile until they screw it up because their own corruption gets the best of them, and the peasants revolt against them. But they're probably not any worse than the people they're replacing. Oh, they're "returning to tradition" or whatever? But what has actually changed in terms of class rule… like compare what's happening now compared to the transition to the socialist PDPA government in the 1970s and its collapse at the hands of these feudal warlords armed by the United States? That's a change in a regime's class character.
And then people say, "democracy" and "liberalism" are finished! It's kaput!!! What did those words even mean to begin with? Didn't the Afghan "president" just jump on a plane with suitcases full of cash? But they couldn't fit all the suitcases on the plane so they left some on the tarmac? It's a joke. It's a fraud. It's a bamboozle!
>>25079>all national liberation is goodNobody is saying that
from literally the same text the other anon quoted
Glowie backed group is alleged to have begun surrender, too.
https://nitter.net/i/status/1427416944286724096#mA lot of loot the Talibs seem to have snagged.
>>25258How should one feel about
any situation they have no control over?
>>25262Thanks for helping me with english.
>(in this case true)So, why are we pretending that Talibans are reactionaries and are baaaad, if they were fighting american puppets for more than 30 years, and have finally achieved victory with all of Afghanistan hailing them as liberators?
Man, american propaganda runs deep. Any time there's an anti-american sentiment, and rightoids and lefties in unison claim that "b-but they are worse", it turns out that antiamericanism is a consistently valid communist opinion that gives less than ~1% false procs. I just don't know how to put it. Whenever USA does anything overseas, to achieve the best communist/national liberation result, you have to support the opposite of what USA does.
>>25264The answer is quite literally propaganda
US would drop cluster bombs with yellow on them. Looking like air dropped aid packages and children would hurry to find them
US had loads of hated CIA trained death swuads around Afghanistan that would anger the population by taking away men in the night
They renamed men aged 18-40 as "militants" with no proof that they actually were
The fact the taliban can sweep Afghanistan in a few weeks should tell everyone that the Taliban, after 20 years of guerilla warfare (guerillas can only survive off a supportive population providing food, shelter and arms) that the Taliban right now are national liberstors
And for all the Western propagandists talk of "the poor women and girls" there is little thought of how executing the men in death squad raids or drone strikes has had on a partiarchal society where men are the breadwinners and when you're killing young fathers the children are forced into prostitution or onto a Cia run heroin farm (same thing)
The fact the entire regime and puppet state the US built for 20 years collapsed like a house of cards when the army outnumbered the Taliban 6 to one, had an airforce and outgunned them
Whatever you think about the taliban its a great day to see the defeat of US empire and soy cucks like Anthony Blinken look like hes about to cry on Tv or the UK defence minister who did cry on Tv
>>24776The thing is Liberal Capitalism is more of a threat because its more capable right now.
Reactionary Theocracy is less powerful at the moment, how much power do they really have outside of a single or few undeveloped countries atm?
>>25270ShitLib understanding of what has happened
Your whining about "females" doesnt extend to the girls that died from opening US cluster bombs, the girls that died from random drone strikes on their wedding day, or the girls that wete forced into prostitution as a result of the breadwinner in their family being arbitrarily murdered by US death squads
https://theintercept.com/2020/12/18/afghanistan-cia-militia-01-strike-force/https://www.thenation.com/article/world/cia-death-squads-afghanistan/https://www.democracynow.org/2020/12/18/cia_death_squads_afghanistanAgain…Theres a reason the Taliban were able to walk through every single city in Afghanistan virtually unopposed or in most cases helped by Taliban sympathisers in the army
And its because the general population of Afghanistan views the Taliban as a better option. So cry as much as you like you soy cuck and save your crocodile tears for the next Cia false flag you'll eat up and use to justify supporting invading Iran/Russia/China/Venezuela et al.
>>25277The child sex slaves? If so, yes that is what I was referring to.
There will no doubt be child sex slaves under the Taliban regime as well
>>25278<There will no doubt be child sex slaves under the Taliban regime as wellNo there wont. The Taliban banned the practice which exploded after 2001 (American invasion)
One if the main reasons the Taliban came to power in 90s was their hatred of pedophillia
>Perhaps the most deplorable tragedy, one that has actually grown more rampant since 2001, is the practice of bacha bazi — sexual companionship between powerful men and their adolescent boy conscripts. <The Taliban had a deep aversion towards bacha bazi, outlawing the practice when they instituted strict nationwide sharia law. According to some accounts, including the hallmark Times of London article "Kandahar Comes out of the Closet" in 2002, one of the original provocations for the Taliban’s rise to power in the early 1990s was their outrage over pedophilia. Once they came to power, bacha bazi became taboo, and the men who still engaged in the practice did so in secret. And the degenerates the Americans brought to power brought back this practice
<When the former mujahideen commanders ascended to power in 2001 after the Taliban’s ouster, they brought with them a rekindled culture of bacha bazi. Today, many of these empowered warlords serve in important positions, as governors, line ministers, police chiefs, and military commanders. https://web.archive.org/web/20141224053841if_/https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/10/28/bacha-bazi-an-afghan-tragedy/American and british troops routinely walked in on boys chained to beds and were ordered not say anything. This is the degenerate regime the Taliban pulled down and is baste
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI >>25278https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/10/28/bacha-bazi-an-afghan-tragedy/>The Taliban had a deep aversion towards bacha bazi, outlawing the practice when they instituted strict nationwide sharia law. According to some accounts, including the hallmark Times of London article “Kandahar Comes out of the Closet” in 2002, one of the original provocations for the Taliban’s rise to power in the early 1990s was their outrage over pedophilia. Once they came to power, bacha bazi became taboo, and the men who still engaged in the practice did so in secret.<When the former mujahideen commanders ascended to power in 2001 after the Taliban’s ouster, they brought with them a rekindled culture of bacha bazi. Today, many of these empowered warlords serve in important positions, as governors, line ministers, police chiefs, and military commanders.<Since its post-2001 revival, bacha bazi has evolved, and its practice varies across Afghanistan. According to military experts I talked to in Afghanistan, the lawlessness that followed the deposing of the Taliban’s in rural Pashtunistan and northern Afghanistan gave rise to violent expressions of pedophilia. Boys were raped, kidnapped, and trafficked as sexual predators regained their positions of regional power. As rule of law mechanisms and general order returned to the Afghan countryside, bacha bazi became a normalized, structured practice in many areas.https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/04/afghanistan-taliban-girls-schools/>When the Taliban came to power in the 1990s, they imposed a very extremist patriarchal rule and banned female education all over the country. Additionally, women were not allowed to work and could not leave their homes without a close male relative. But in fact, misogynist policies were already shaped before the Taliban were created. After the mujahideen overran Kabul and toppled the last communist government in 1992, hostility toward women in urban areas increased. Also, the whole issue has always been exploited by both local governments and foreign powers that invaded the country. <Since the Americans signed a peace deal with the Taliban in late February, it has become clear that, sooner or later, the insurgent group would somehow return to power in some form, at the very least in some sort of power-sharing arrangement with the government in Kabul. In fact, large parts of Afghanistan are already under the Taliban’s control. But especially in urban areas like Kabul and elsewhere, many Afghans still fear a regression toward the dark days of the Taliban regime. Especially when it comes to female education, some observers and activists believe that the Taliban would ban any kind of education for girls and young women again. Both the Kabul government and the American negotiators made clear that such a regression would not take place, while the Taliban leadership preferred to stay vague and underlined the importance of Islamic norms in the context of women’s work and girls’ education. “We are not against female education or work. But we have Islamic norms. This is still not the West,” Sher Mohammad Abbas Stanikzai, the head of the Taliban office in Qatar, previously said in an interview. <The case of the girls school in Badikhel, however, shows that things are much more complex. “This is not surprising. The Taliban were never able to have a clear position to even convince their own men about the validity of un-Islamic orders like closing girls schools,” said Orzala Nemat, a political ethnographer and head of the Afghanistan Research and Evaluation Unit, an independent research organization based in Kabul. She described how even during Taliban ruling in the late 1990s, local officers made arrangements with local communities to keep the schools open. “This whole rule is one among a number of rules perhaps imposed on Taliban leadership by those who aimed to destroy the foundations of a progressive thinking in the country.”< From 2002, the U.S. government reportedly invested around $1 billion to build schools, staff classrooms, and flood provinces with textbooks. But most of the money went into the gaping pockets of warlords and corrupt government officials, leaving entire schools empty and decaying. By 2015, at least 1,100 schools listed as active in 2011 by the Afghan Education Ministry were not at all operational. Later, these places became famous as “ghost schools.” Also, girls were often overcounted by officials to accumulate more U.S. aid money. The failure of the United States in Afghanistan was probably best, and most disturbingly, epitomized by the very existence of what are now known as ghost schools, where no female students actually exist.Take your ignorance and social chauvinism and shove it up your ass. The US hasn’t been doing jack for the Afghan People.
>>25284>>25285Okay so you say the Taliban went harder on sexual slavery of boys? I have heard that the Taliban is abducting young girls and women to be "brides" what is the truth with this?
You mention that much funding for female schools was diverted to corruption, it's not surprsing. But the American occupation regime explicitly allowed girls to attend schools? Will it not be worse under the Taliban?
>>25294anyone wanna see how bad youtube has gotten, do a search for 'afghanistan'. it's just nothing but wall to wall corporate media. cnn, abc, nbc, fox, cnn, etc etc, endlessly.
One thing you won't see: youtubers!
You're not allowed to see regular people and independent channels talking about Afghanistan, just corporate US/Nato propaganda outlets. The only way you'd ever find youtubers is if you already knew of them and searched for specific ones.
I know it's been bad for a while, but damn. the brainwashing is relentless these days.
>>25298That's all you're gonna see. Corp news whilst interviewing the select few collaborators of US imperialism who only ever collaborated with US because the US dangled a green card in front of their face
None of the people that welcomed the Taliban into their cities will get a look in
>>25289>last two days>kinoEven 4chan faggots love footage of Soviet retreat from Afghanistan to make music videos of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjdn2JYZhD8What was going on the last week was pure fucking circus.
>>25287The Taliban have worked out that if you let girls go to school, you control what they learn.
They're not going to ban girls from attending school, it's just that all the assigned reading is gong to be theocratic patriarchal propaganda.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/unicef-says-some-taliban-support-education-afghan-girls-2021-08-17/GENEVA, Aug 17 (Reuters) - The chief of field operations of the U.N. children's agency expressed cautious optimism about working with Taliban officials following their seizure of power in Afghanistan, citing their early expressions of support for girls' education.
The U.N. children's agency (UNICEF) is still delivering aid to most parts of the country and has held initial meetings with new Taliban representatives in recently seized cities like Kandahar, Herat and Jalalabad.
"We have ongoing discussions, we are quite optimistic based on those discussions," UNICEF's chief of field operations in Afghanistan, Mustapha Ben Messaoud, told a U.N. briefing, adding that 11 out of 13 field offices were currently operational.
"We have not a single issue with the Taliban in those field offices."
>>25313Were they learning critical race theory under the puppet government?
>Reutersew
>>25258Taliban seems to not be as insane as it used to be.
It was inevitable, anyway. At least now the cycle of violence has largely ended.
>>25307So when is he going to shoot
(stab?) up a mosque?
>>25314I mean, they’re probably not wrong though
Genuinely what the fuck do you think the Taliban will be teaching girls in school?
The whole “molding worldviews via educational system” is one of those key features of modernity, odds are the Taliban will try doing what the Saudis did, have a theocratic dystopia with modern tech and foreign funding
without the historical context of "there is no non-islamist non-reactionary force in afghanistan, and maybe just maybe this has to do with decades of imperialism," all criticism of the Taliban by westerners feeds into the imperialist narrative of humanitarian intervention. Criticize them in context pls <3
>>25338the US is chock full of cartoon villains
>>25323>Taliban seems to not be as insane as it used to be. I suspect the US killed the entire Old Guard and the people now in charge are considerably younger.
We will see the rise of Wahhabi Tech Bros pushing Jihadicoin, mark my words
>>25354ahistorical liberal moralism. this was a necessary development unless you don't want AF to have its own government
>>25270>the US being barbaric and disgusting does not take away from thatit literally does, because the US created the Taliban and this whole situation. the only way towards social progress is to let AF work itself out
>>25354ShitLib doesn't understand the waves of history and just wants his ready made utopia to order part #4000394
<The same must be said of the revolutionary character of national movements in general. The unquestionably revolutionary character of the vast majority of national movements is as relative and peculiar as is the possible revolutionary character of certain particular national movements. The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement.<The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such "desperate" democrats and "Socialists," "revolutionaries" and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a reactionary struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism; whereas the struggle that the British "Labour" Government is waging to preserve Egypt's dependent position is for the same reason a reactionary struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are "for" socialism. There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a revolutionary step.
<Lenin was right in saying that the national movement of the oppressed countries should be appraised not from the point of view of formal democracy, but from the point of view of the actual results, as shown by the general balance sheet of the struggle against imperialism, that is to say, "not in isolation, but on a world scale" (see Vol. XIX, p. 257).https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/foundations-leninism/ch06.htm >>25275t. liberal excuses for interventions
Suck a dick, moron.
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