No.2608[Last 50 Posts]
These guys over at Infrared have been interacting with our threads (/IG/, /INFRARED/) on almost a daily basis, and for that mere fact alone deserve our respect. They contribute to our PPH (post per hour) being higher. The last thread's thread starter was a bunch of slander and trolling attempts, so I'd like to get off on a better footing for this one.
Infrared is:>20 people (as of now)>20 people from ALL AROUND THE WORLD>anti-anglo (aka. anti-whatever that makes the western left incompetent)>pro-Communism with a capital C
Reading group on Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/#IBC:matrix.org?via=matrix.orgTo all the haters and trolls: keep coping. Infra is BASED beyond belief.lenin_capLenin Cap
Their latest stream whoms't first segment covers in detail our last /INFRA/ thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQp1N8ksQDA
Haz fucking BTFO'd idiots big time.
Nobody cares about your obese vaush 2.0 wannabe eceleb faggot. take it to /b/
Haz is fucking /FIT/ bro
really embarrassing how this site shits on vaush fanboys for worshipping that bearded soyboy. and then turns around and fanboys all over this stupid manlet's cock. the hypocrisy is amazing.
Bro im not watching a 6 hour stream, can you TLDR?
This is my main beef with """"INFRARED"""": they claim to be anti-anglo, anti-empiricism, anti-new left, while they make/use
>anglo statemenets/debate tactics
>new left I N T E L L E C T U A L S (like Lacan, Zizek, Deleuze, etc.)
They are basically hypocrites in my mind. This community's fascination with them is completely pathetic, moreover, while you try to portray this leftypol – infrared relationship as "symbiotic" it's actually PARASITICAL. These assholes over at INFRA are using this platform to merely boost their views and shill for the CPUSA.
if browsing this site is any sort of criteria for being "based" then vaush is based too.
>a thread died for this
Jannies please delete this slide thread. it belongs in /ig/
tbf theres no evidence of vaush browsing the site, ive heard it said multiple times but no ones ever linked a video showing it. Seems like an urban legend or something
Marx specifically said that communism is about abolishing the current state of things. Meanwhile, Haz is saying that Marxism isn't about that. He actively promotes state-capitalist enterprises like China. For Marx a "communist state" would be an oxymoron. For Haz?? It's "common sense."
I laugh at anyone who thinks Infrared is "BASED". They are EVERYTHING wrong with the left. Bunch of ML-wannabe larpers. EVEN FUCKING LENIN were to the left of Haz. Read his "State and Rev." book. Lenin clearly said that such a thing as a "communist state" was impossible.
WTF i love the FBI now
WTF i love thedonald.win now
WTF i love /pol/ now
WTF i love bunkerchan now
WTF i love vaush now
are there any other content creators on /IG/ that regularly engage with leftypol?
Therefore, anglo, /INFRA/vision deserves its own thread.
Haz is a retard and a schizo and i have no idea why anyone on this site keeps stanning him, Jannies included. >>2622
whatever janny posted that shit is a fucking retard and half makes me unironically wanna go back to fuckerchan although tbh they'd probably eat up this autism even more
I've already wasted too much of my life by even hearing about this schizo retard with 500 subs and im gonna hide every post i see with his name in it from now on.
Thanks baiting retards, this is the last time im responding to infrared and his retarded schizo fans
This. "the primary stage of socialism" is not real, just some bullshit the dungoids invented in order to shill market liberalism. Whenever you point out that china is just capitalism, they claim that china qualifies as a rudimentary form of socialism because of "state owned enterprises" which is just a way of saying the state controls every single industry. So did nazi germany by the way.
Remember: HAZ is not into chan-lingo. Make sure to make your terms clear: DENGOID
HAZ IS A DENGOID
HAZ IS A DENGOID
HAZ IS A DENGOID
HAZ IS A DENGOID
HAZ IS A DENGOID
HAZ IS A DENGOID
HAZ IS A DENGOID
HAZ IS A DENGOID
>>2622>consoom eceleb influencer streams and get excited for next streams
fuck off libtard
For real, tho. These guys at Infrared is EXACTLY what commie youtube needs, and only fukken (((anglos))) disagree with them or have a problem with them.
So much respect for these guys.
no, everyone here is a standard ML with maybe some leftcoms+anarchists thrown in once in a while
>>2633>we are ML in name
okay, but their whole point is that Marxism and Leninism has been corrupted by anglo ideology.
what does that even mean ? what's anglo ideology ? idpol shit ? how did it get corrupted,and in what way ? all those questions and more that won't get answered.
HAZ, if you READ this, I want you to cover this comment of mine in its entirety, and tell me if I've missed something or if I were wrong in my points, okay, dude?>>2635>what's anglo ideology ?
Anglo ideology, according to Infrared is basically:
1) phrase mongering;
2) axiomatic definition-fetishism OVER dialectical thinking;
3) positivism/empiricism/utilitarianism OVER actual critical thinking of how shit actually are;
4) the complete disavowal of the "abstract," while pretending that the "concrete" can be directly accessed, while in fact Marx's method ALWAYS was to start with the abstract and move to the concrete;
5) cultural hegemony-fueled illusions about the world (what we created is true, therefore what is true is what we created);
6) connected with 5): a kind of LAZY ASS BITCH response to EVERY OTHER WAY OF THINKING, for example, analytical (anglo) vs. "continental" philosophy, where you get to pretend that you """"debunked"""" Lacan or Althusser by reducing their points to a strawman;
7) legalistic thinking, which just mirrors the money form, lol, (and its related concepts like hoomanism and enlightement/liberal values);
8) the RAMPANT eastern-hatred and misunderstandings that is so typical of anglos & burgers, which comes from their global POSITION;
9) the inability to question said POSITION in (8).
Please tell me if I've left out anything.lenin_capLenin Cap
>>2635>what's anglo ideology ? idpol shit ?
"Idpol shit" is just a logical outcome of all that I've said above. An example:>two proles meet in the USA>one is black, one is white>instead of UNITING based on their SHARED CLASS INTERESTS>they start to bitch about who is "more oppressed"
Here's the thing, dude, THE FUCKING POLITICAL POWER DOING THE OPPRESSION? THAT'S ANGLOS!
To think in terms of this, between a black and a white worker, is just to REAFFIRM the SAME FUCKING FAKE-OPPOSITION that your EMPIRE imposes on the rest of the world at home.lenin_capLenin Cap
>>2635>how did it get corrupted,and in what way ?
Imagine for a second that you aren't an (((anglo))) right now, but a Citizen of the Roman Empire in its declining phase. You could ask the same question there: "am I corrupted?"
FOR SURE, BITCH.
As a Roman citizen you 100% take over the socially transmitted idelogies/takes from that Empire. You THINK like the ROMANS DO, bro, while the fucking SAXONS are crumbling your empire, saxons, who you think are fucking "BARBARIANS".
Your US "barbarians" are basically, as of now, THE REST OF THE FUCKING WORLD, DUDE. From your (((anglo))) / (((Roman)))) perspective I'm a fucking BARBARIAN for even having the balls to question your ideological hegemony.
go dielenin_capLenin Cap
>>2636>8) the RAMPANT eastern-hatred and misunderstandings that is so typical of anglos & burgers, which comes from their global POSITION;
* and actual history (that is the Cold War, and its ideological apparatuses, like McCarthyism, and its looming consequences).lenin_capLenin Cap
Why do fucking retards still leak their lobotomized brain soup into the thread fully knowing that Haz will stream tonight doing targeted harassment on your posts? Do you like to be humiliated or something? >hurr durr Chyna is like Nazi Germany durrr
They are milking their lolcow. And rightfully so.
yasss kweeen fuck those nasty westerners l they are no true marxists. third world goatfuckers for tha winnn
(I’m replying to Neon directly on here since youtube decided to automatically remove my comments)
As a German, why are you opposed to eurasianism? Creating links with Russia and China is in Germany’s interest, plus this is objectively contributing to the weakening of US global hegemony by creating a new multipolar imperialist world-order.
It’s important to remember that the more the imperialists are divided between themselves, the more likely is the chance of socialism arising. Each world war led to the expansion of socialism. Moreover, an imperialist can and will support a socialist country if it means weakening their rival’s interest, we shouldn’t have any remorse about asking for the support of an imperialist world power to gives us support, as long as it empowers socialism in the long term.
This happened in Ukraine for instance, where Russia supported the Donetsk People's Republic as well as the Luhansk People's Republic against the fascists in Ukraine, despite Russia being led by an oligarch's cock-sleeve.
Another more controversial case among Marxist-Leninist is when the US supported the quasi-socialist state of Rojava in Syria to maintain its imperialist presence in the region, showing that even the US, the most ruthless imperialist warmonger, is capable of supporting a socialist state just to further its strategic interests.
Today the People's Republic of China (which I consider to be state-capitalist) supports the DPRK and Cuba against the US, their role as defender of socialist countries cannot be understated, even if you disagree with their bizarre "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" policy.
It's not about "campism" or whatever buzzword you prefer, it's about creating fractures inside the current global capitalist world order to weaken its power over the extra long-term. Global liberalism depends on political stability, capitalist property rights and social-relations, human capital supremacy, free movement of capital and people, international cooperation as well as the flow of information. To destroy capitalism, you must first weaken the foundations of liberalism to ensure that the capitalists can't form a united front against socialism, and believe me, they will do when a socialist country will actually start to threaten their power.
For the moment, the capitalist countries are too much integrated with each other for revolution to be possible, as like I mentioned before they would not only form a united front to crush socialism, the working class in a revolutionary country would have to fight its entire army apparatus to establish socialism. This task is made significantly easier when the army is disorganized and weakened by a rival imperialist power during a war.
Unfortunately, socialism is not around the corner, the world is just way to inter-connected for a single isolated socialist country to survive (unless you want to become like the DPRK or Cuba). Sad but this is the truth.
Eurasianism in the Russian and post-soviet context represents a way to fight Western imperialist hegemony while furthering the people's need for social reforms. Putin is not really an Eurasianist, he is a Russian nationalist, he supports private monopolies and reactionary Russian imperial myths. Eurasianism is not only the fruit of Dugin's idea, but the manifestation of multiple movements across the post-soviet zone to counter the influence of global capitalist hegemony.
Then there is this new implicit “greater-eurasianism” which is still in an embryonic stage and represent the economic and political convergence of Europe, Russia and China toward a form of proto-socialist state-capitalist model. In order to maintain its supremacy, it’s absolutely essential for the US to stop this convergence by fomenting fractures between these countries so they can’t unite.
This is explicitly said by American geopolitical analysts and it’s also the guiding US foreign policy since WW2. I still don’t understand why brainlets deny it or continue to think America’s actions are guided by neoconservatives’ ideas while these are merely the justifications of the superstructure to meet the needs of the base’s imperialistic interests.
Geopolitics is harsh, it's sterile, sociopathic and devoid of humanity. But they are essential if you want to keep up in this world. You can't think in an ideological manner anymore, idealism in international relation is over, embrace realism. No revolution will survive without having an understanding of modern international relations theory.
Now to reply directly to your accusations:
>Caleb and the Grayzone are puppets of foreign governments. Caleb is obviously funded by the Russian state, the Grayzone has better ways to disguise their sponsors.
I wouldn't even care if this was true, their work (especially the Grayzone) has been essential in fighting the current zeitgeist regarding China and other non-liberal nations.
>Hakim was spouting nonsense, when he praised the RAF and I just felt the need, to call him out for this.
Sounds like you're just a triggered West-Germanoid.
>Wait, you are in defence of Pol Pot??
No and I don't care about having this debate.
And no, I’m not Red Dundonian, I’m another guy.
<(I reposted this because I want Haz to react to my analysis)tankieTankie
Sorry to burst your bubble, but as it stands right now the "West" has literally no actual Marxist/communist parties and movements. I know this FACT stings like HELL if you are an (((anglo))) but it's true, dog.
(I’m replying to your response >>70210 here, Neon)
>I'm not per se opposed to eurasianism, but I'm not convinced that it is inherently better than atlanticism.
Even if it was “worse” than Atlanticism, the Eurasian economic zone is infinitely weaker than the Atlantic countries. And I don’t get what you mean by Eurasianism being “worse” than Atlanticism, Eurasianism promote social-democracy while Atlanticism promote aggressive liberal neo-colonial shock reforms and debt traps.
>Is it? Before Merkel, we had a staunch eurasianist chancellor - Gerhard Schröder - and he did a great job at destroying the welfare state and creating "the best low-income sector in Europe". Now he lives in Russia and is Putin's BFF.<Schröder sent forces to Kosovo and to Afghanistan as part of NATO operations.<When Schröder left office, Germany had 2,000 troops in Afghanistan, the largest contingent from any nation other than the United States, UK, France, Canada and after two years Afghanistan.<When British planes joined United States forces bombing Iraq without consulting the United Nations Security Council in December 1998, Schröder endorsed the military action unequivocally.<The parliamentary leader of the SPD, Ludwig Stiegler, compared US President George W. Bush to Julius Caesar while Schröder's Minister of Justice, Herta Däubler-Gmelin, likened Bush's foreign policy to that of Adolf Hitler. Schröder's critics accused him of enhancing, and campaigning on, anti-American sentiments in Germany.<Bush stated in his memoirs that Schröder initially promised to support the Iraq war but changed his mind with the upcoming German elections and public opinion strongly against the invasion.>boohoo he used anti-american sentiments to get elected despite still being part of NATO and collaborating with them in Afghanistan, that means he’s definitely eurasianist!1!1!1!<Soon after, however, he cultivated close ties with Yeltsin's successor, President Vladimir Putin, in an attempt to strengthen the "strategic partnership" between Berlin and Moscow, including the opening of a gas pipeline from Russian Dan Marino-Pipelines over the Baltic Sea exclusively between Russia and Germany.<Only a few days after his chancellorship, Schröder joined the board of directors of the Nord Stream joint venture, thus bringing about new speculations about his prior objectivity.>nooooo!!! he openly collaborated with Russia to further his own personal capitalist interest, that definitely means he’s an eurasianist!!!!
You are a fool if you think saying “america bad” while still following their foreign policy is what eursianism is, Schroder was a centrist neoliberal asshole and he was merely being an opportunist.
>Wow, and how will this bring me a decent wage and affordable housing?
Will supporting Atlanticism do that? None of your parties except maybe Die Linke want to do that. And it’s not about being a hardcore eurasianist stan, it’s about recognizing the role that geopolitics and most notably, American hegemony plays in enforcing the current capitalist-world order. Eurasianism, coupled with proletarian internationalism should be the foreign policy choice of a communist party, not its main platform.>urh dhur will organizing bring me a decent wage and affordable housing?
See how retarded you sound?
>I distrust China the same way I distrust Russia and the US.
I don’t even think China is socialist but if you think that you are seriously braindead. Plus, the fact that you used to be an ultra-dengist means you didn’t read actual literature regarding the current state of China or else you wouldn’t be thinking that now. You were a brainlet before, you still are one today, nothing changed, you’re still retarded. You didn’t ascend to a new state of knowledge and understanding, you just changed side because it made you feel good. Which is the only reason you used to support China in the first place and you openly admitted to it before.
>All this theorizing about "breaking the imperialist order" is fun and games, but in the end I have to pay my bills.
Ok cool, me too. So does everyone else. What’s your point? We can’t discuss geopolitics because you have to pay your bills? Fuck you
>Would it objectively help the global anti-imperialist movement, if my country would be suddenly nuked? Maybe. But I personally wouldn't benefit from it. This is certain.
Nobody advocated for Germany to be nuked, we advocated cooperation between the EU, Russia and China. This shows again that you are a brainlet, a theorylet as well as booklet.
Take a look at the pictures I sent, where did they advocate for the nuking of Germany?
Honestly, I’m disappointed by your reply, if you really think what you wrote you should leave politics because it’s obvious you can’t think of ideas and things as something other than the absolute caricature of what they really are.tankieTankie
What times does Haz stream?
Burger time (EST), sadly.
>>2615>anglo statemenets/debate tactics
What does this even mean?>new left I N T E L L E C T U A L S (like Lacan, Zizek, Deleuze, etc.)
New left is when you use new stuff?
>>2652>New left is when you use new stuff?
basically. If you use any intellectual beyond Marx & Lenin you are a New Leftist, aka. hippy
I want a debate between Haz and CockshottsandinistaSandinista
Can't tell if bait.
Speed running the anglo-box.
Where does their thought diverge?
“bunkerchan are nazis” is the stupidest head cannon this bird ever came up
*board ever came up with
500chan has devolved into a dispensable /b/ - /pol/ board (plus some dead boards) like there are hundreds already. There is no need to argue this, a glance at the frontpage suffices.
>>2608>These guys over at Infrared have been interacting with our threads (/IG/, /INFRARED/) on almost a daily basis, and for that mere fact alone deserve our respect.
Attention maybe but respect?>>2613
Vaush is cringe because he is anglo.
Haz is based because he is eastern.
No this is not orientalism, and I won't explain further.
>>2664>Haz is based because he is eastern.
nobody made this argument, tho. Haz is BASED because he has the ballz to fucking dunk on you, dude.
Haz made this argument. He said that his thinking is informed by eastern philosophy and that's why he's based unlike anglos.
he also made clear that he reads "Western" thinkers like Heidegger, Lacan, etc. making your whole angle moot.
It's not a question of what thinkers someone reads (or doesn't with vaush). The argument is about the mode of thinking.
>>2668>The argument is about the mode of thinking.
anglo vs eastern, as Haz has been saying
anglo being based on linear axiomatic modal logic
eastern being based on associative synthesis and broad historical context
>>2670>anglo vs eastern, as Haz has been saying
And how is that wrong, LMAO???????
what? ME philosophy sucked off the greeks so hard its the only reason we still have surviving greek works to this day lmao
philosophy and the like isn't easy enough to break down into such broad categories, and doing it to counter haz's retardation is just enabling his own retardation.
That's how Haz describes it.
No shit. The point is to reflect how absurd it is to argue based on regional categories. Almost like Haz himself is falling victim to the autism box by putting broad and nuanced philosophical traditions into these categories.
The whole argument reeks of projection. If Haz is so against the "anglo" he needs to start by killing the anglo in his head, who obviously lives there rent free.
meanwhile, in reality:>>2636
Care to criticize any points there, BITCH?
oh, well yeah. I am pretty sure we all just know haz is kinda retarded and spooked in a way parallel to 3rd worldists.
The problem with this is not that he's wrong that these faults are bad. (They are.) The problem is he's seeing these faults in everything (by reading them in in an effort to find anglos) and committing some of them himself. He has the anglo ideology within him in his insistence on putting people in the "anglo" box, and the more he tries to repress his own anglo tendencies, the more they are leaking out.
>>2679>The problem with this is not that he's wrong that these faults are bad.
These are NOT so called "faults," you FUCKING BITCH.
THESE ARE PART AND PARCEL OF ANGLO-IDEOLOGY, you fucking moron. Start from this perspective and *magically* you'll arrive at the same conclusion as I did.
>The problem is he's seeing these faults in everything
NEWSFLASH, fucking anglo, you LITERALLY rule the fucking *known*world. You are LITERALLY T H E F U C K I N G R O M A N E M P I R E right now.
>He has the anglo ideology within him
>his insistence on putting people in the "anglo" box
What the fuck is an anglo?
>strikes are not direct action because word salad
>I don’t know who shining path are
>China is based and has no obligation to international socialism because bizness and I’m a Marxist Leninist but gulags are bad and we will have state socialism without locking up people for their views
>supports the CPUSA
>somehow calls others libs in spite of this
>while also calling people bitch on the internet through stream, while also calling other people edgy, while also referring to himself as king kong
Kek, last night he was tested and last night he was found wanting, although in fairness
>said enver Hoxha was a smart guy
>supported Scottish independence
These last two means he is at least sort of okay. Still 100 times better than Vaush. 6.5/10 undeserving of simps
>>2680>These are NOT so called "faults," you FUCKING BITCH. THESE ARE PART AND PARCEL OF ANGLO-IDEOLOGY,
Uh… yeah? He is identifying these traits people have in their ideology and saying hey are faulty ideology. What are we even disagreeing about here?
>NEWSFLASH, fucking anglo, you LITERALLY rule the fucking *known*world. You are LITERALLY T H E F U C K I N G R O M A N E M P I R E right now.
And? Not everything is anglo, clearly. Haz doesn't consider himself or his group (including the audience) anglo. So not literally everything is anglo, yet he calls everything he sees anglo.
As mad as they are let's not """ironically""" simp for the fucking british empire.
and /IG/ belongs on /b/
Should he shop him to the CPUSA for saying retard and bitch on stream? This are both highly problematic words
But where does this word come from?
The more this shit goes on, the more I (and I assume others) agree.>>2688
Caring about retards and bitches is anglo. Have you noticed the infrared crew has no retards and bitches?
>>2682>>strikes are not direct action because word salad
Haz EXPLICITLY said that strikes are an ontological disruption
inside capitalism, you fucking idiot.
>>China is based and has no obligation to international socialism because bizness and I’m a Marxist Leninist but gulags are bad and we will have state socialism without locking up people for their views
I'm glad you pulled out this string of words out of your anus. Too bad nobody hods this view, except your constructed strawman.
>while also calling people bitch
>>said enver Hoxha was a smart guy
How was he not? Have you read a single text of his?
>>supported Scottish independence
>>2624>one thread is "shitting up the catalogue"
Kys yourself, anglo.
"Anglo?" It comes from reality, dude. Check it out sometimes. It's fukken WHACK.
They combined the philosophical divide between the analytic and continental traditions with the meme about the Eternal Anglo (british empire) shitting things up, and are trying to make a serious critique out of it. Which is pretty stupid considering the philosophical divide is autistic to begin with and the muh anglo meme is an ironic parody of /pol/'s muh international jewry meme. Being that some of infrared have third world origins it's possible they don't realize (or care) that the point of the anglo meme is irony and seriously take it to heart.
It has Haz who is clearly autistic and spends time getting mad about the internet so, probably a bitch too. >>2691>it’s an ontological disruption not direct action
Yeh when I said “because word salad” that still definitely stands kek. Even more so. Try harder Haz. >string of words
Everything I said in there is something you said last night Haz. It’s okay, you’re a CPUSA Lib larping as based and red pilled because you say bitch and retard. Sad. Anglos must have been right. >Hoxha
Yes this was a point in his favour as I said. >Scottish Indy
Yes indeed based. I have a balanced view
>>2696>It has Haz who is clearly autistic and spends time getting mad about the internet so, probably a bitch too.
It was brought up last thread that sperging at people online looks weak and Haz disagrees, thinking it makes him look strong and based.
BASED Infra-inbred destroyed
Name one single Chad who does this
I'm not agreeing with it lol. I'm reminding people how Haz sees himself.
Oh fair, the other good one was >direct action is autistic>but being a debate bro on the internet that’s the real shit
ITT is femboys whose girldick perks up when hairy Arab man raises his voice. I mean, I can see the attraction if you are a sub don’t get me wrong.
It's almost as if this so called "West" wasn't able historically to into communism, or some shit.
>>2704>>direct action is autistic
It literally is, dude. Fucking Lenin wrote about this shit. Your "direct action" as it stands now is nothing but peak SPECTACLE-tier shit.
>>but being a debate bro on the internet that’s the real shit
False dichotomy, to begin with. LITERALLY NOBODY THINKS, EXPECT YOU THAT THERE'S A "direct action vs. debate bro" thing going on. You have are now cancelled, brainlet tripfag.
Strikes are direct action, ask literally any trade unionist you fucking internet brained fuck
>nobody thinks there is a direct action v debate bro
Except haz you are a debate bro who maligns direct action kek.
communism is whe eastern thought
And, aside from asking any trade unionist, give me a description of direct action, we will see how it lines up. >inb4 word salad >actually I’m not a Nazi I’m a 4th positionist catholic distributist
communism is when you Marx Lenin Stalin with a side of Lacan Land Freud
So every shitty leftist streamer gets their own simping thread now? How long until we have cyclical Voosh, Hasan and MikeFromPA threads?
Also also also
>direct action is just spectacle bro
>live-streaming though that’s real material change
Lmao bruv keep it coming please baby
>>2708>Strikes are direct action
No, they are not. Actual ECONOMIC STRIKES distrupt the fucking M - C - M' cycle, while your anglo-autistic "direct action" just burns fucking garbage bins.
Are you actually mentally disabled?
As long as it poomps our views I say let the simps simp we can redpill his inevitablely retarded audience
I know how HARD you are trying to popularize this term, dude, but it's NOT going to happen. How sad are you, lmao.
>>2714>it’s not direct action akshually its disrupting the MCM cycle
Kek plz, plz keep going. Is it disrupting this cycle directly or indirectly and uh.. did people have to take action in order to cause this disruption? >burning bins
Nothing to do with strikes mate but please seethe more
Me sage I am the first person to use the term debate bro. Kek I mean I am flattered but no it wasn’t me
>>2716>I know how HARD you are trying to popularize this term
Lmao, the debate bro has been a term since New Atheism became a thing. You are a bit behind on the memes.
So no argument at all then answer the question spastic
Reminder: treat actual tripfagging schizos as they present themselves: as tripfagging schizos.
Just don't engage, which you are totally failing at.
Anglos don't like continental philosophy and psychoanalysis.
Lmao the absolute seethe
They don't care to even try
to understand it, dude.
So I am correct, strikes are direct action because you literally cannot answer the question lmao. It’s cool that Haz says retard and bitch though you defo aren’t just easily duped by service level things kekelemayo
Pretty cool you went through the whole thread to collect all my posts though and click on them. Also feels good to have invented the term debate bro. I am based clearly and red pilled to have invented such a widely used term
there are like 2, maybe 3 nazis posting on there. if that sounds like "full of nazis" to you then you might be sheltered.
there is plenty of retardation in continental philosophy and psychoanalysis. I can't blame Anglos for looking at shit like Carl Jung (the most shilled psychoanalyst in the anglosphere) and Guettari and thinking it's garbage
can I just sleep in the streets instead
The reason that we pay attention to him, or at least me, is because I want to troll and mock that midwit Haz. He is clearly a schizo and a grifter trying to use leftism as a completely narcissistic attention-whoring for his 'Brand". He doesn't actually care about advancing socialism, to him, it's just a brand he can use to get attention and money in this new social media world.
I wish he and his idiotic fantards can just get off the internet and go away.
Imagine not being a grifter in this day and age,
Where is the evidence for any of these accusations?
>muh anglos bad
This whole thread is full of orientalist, eastern-worshipping pathetic cuckolds who hate their own western culture. It's almost as bad as the wapanese japan obsession. And when you point out that their hate of "anglo ideology" is nothing more than idpol, no different from the fascist hate of "kike ideology", they pull these amazing mental gymnastics trying to convince you otherwise.
I'm sure not everyone on this site is a self-hating westerner, though. It's quite sad that idpol of this caliber has now infected this site and even the jannies, or whoever runs that leftypol twitter account, is fully complicit. Can't wait until the next split.
As for this "eceleb/influencer/streamer", he's nothing but a wannabe who copies vaush's exact style of streaming and discussion and pathetically tries to build a follower base on *leftypol* out of all the serious marxist communities on the internet. If you're reading this, you're not original, you're not edgy, you're generic and stale. We were here before you wannabe-revolutionary faggot arrived. And we will be here after you are gone.
This. Haz is nothing but another cancerous debatebro copying vaush's genre. He brings nothing to this imageboard except trash posters, and he's clearly trying to build some kind of cult of personality around himself here. I truly despise him
Reminder that the engine is an anglo invention.
who the fuck is this nerd, some anti-england global south nationalist? why is this idpol allowed here
It's cringy Duginist "Grounded and Landlocked Eurasian culture" versus "Mercantile Atlantean Anglo culture" as far as I can tell. Just read Dugin if you like this shit.
lmao>>2736>The reason that we pay attention to him, or at least me, is because I want to troll and mock that midwit
This is how well adjusted people read your comment:<I have no life and I hate the fact<I need to troll, or otherwise I would have to face my actual conditions, which would be super traumatic for me, so I'll pass
anti-Anglo doesn’t mean anti-England
isn't dugin the weird fascist who wrote a book about russian geopolitics or something?
Yes exactly and his geopolitics are exactly what the anon you've replayed to is saying.farcLas FARC
Thanks for reminding me, that Ginjeet is a insane schizo
thx for the link, comrade
Dugin is the mastermind behind "Eurasianism", which is a euphemism for contemporary russian imperialism. He invented this ideology in order to justify and glorify russia's hegemonic ambitions. People who believe in this idea of "rejecting the atlanticist order" are just as dumb, who believe that the US is spreading "Freedom" and "Democracy".
I love the fact that 15 minutes in the interview Zizek can't contain himself and just starts shitting on anarchism.
The thing is, he's not FUCKING WRONG, dude. Anarchism – historically speaking – was WAAAAAY more "authoritarian" than Marxism.
It's German you fucking moron
>>2755>replace one imperialist with another imperialist = communism
since when did liberals find this site?
Not exactly. He says Heidegger is the gateway from the West to Eastern thought. That's why he shills Heidegger so much.
Of course it is. To quote Lenin:>the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life; (2) the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital”, of a financial oligarchy; (3) the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance; (4) the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves, and (5) the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed.
All these criteria are present in Putin's Russia: high concentration of production and capital, financial oligarchy, export of capital (even in Africa and Latin America! but mostly in former Soviet republics), and Russia actively participates in the 'territorial division of the whole world' - where it can do it. It is also a member of a rival imperialist bloc headed by China. They invaded Georgia and now Crimea to increase their sphere of political influence and tighten their grip on foreign resources. Crimea is mostly Russian already, but the Tatars are a distinct people. Haz is nothing but another one of putin's cock holsters.
You ever think maybe reality isn't so black and white as "abstract issue X you have no control over, support or oppose? And if you get it wrong you're a revisionist"
>>2759> Anything that has significant enough power to challenge Western hegemony = imperialism> Anything that doesn't live up to my Western abstract utopian standard of communism = revisionist
It's not like China and Russia or nation-states in general are "good guys", of course they are always looking out for their own interests. But you trying to impose some imaginary utopian idea of communism instead of dealing with the material reality of nation-states - that's just infantile ultraleftist thought, in defense of Western hegemony. The world isn't your playground anymore, nor is it the playground of the neocon Trots who want to shape it to their image. Stay mad Anglo.
he says the other way around doofus
Well yeah. It's not like there is one universally accepted conception of socialism anyways. I'm not entirely on board with Haz's definition of socialism but I can see the point he's trying to make.
lol you've been debunked by >>2761
before you even made this post. kill yourself roader. you will never be an oligarch
>haz isn't even live
literally butthurt western-marxists
>>2643>Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin is a Russian political analyst and strategist known for his fascist views.>NOOO IF YOU DONT SUPPORT FASCISM TO OWN THE LIBS THEN UR AN ULTRA!!!!!!!!!!
Is this what leftypol has become?
That's because Heidegger himself has elements of eastern philosophy, he rejects the notion of a subject approaching and acting upon the world from the outside, for Heidegger human existence means being already in the world, everything already has a meaning, and subject is only a certain form a human existence takes when this being-in-the-world breaks down. It's like with tools, their primary existence is in their use (Zuhandenheit), they only become dead objects (Vorhandenheit) when they break down. Same way anglo philosophy is thought and language that broke down, so everything has to be analyzed as a dead object and precisely defined.
"Debunked"? Are you some stupid New Atheist Fallacy fedora? I never made any moral or normative claim about China or Russia. I just said you're no longer baws. Go cry about it. You'll never reach "pure communism" or whatever other infantile ultraleftism you want in your lifetime.
goatfuckers like you think you are so smug that you will reach true communism first or whatever. lol nope its not happening. you will be crushed by the feds before you can even say holodomor.
this post doesn’t explain Heidegger’s relationship to western philosophy or “eastern philosophy”. you realize eastern philosophy isn’t considered a distinct thing outside of new age superstition right?
Like how we should support the anti authoritarian Navalny against Fascist Putin.
You're so drunk on obvious glowie propaganda you don't even realize it.
Controversial political opinion: leave Russians to deal with Russian fascism. Fix your own country before you tell others what to do.
Just look up "heidegger tao" if you're interested in this.
>>2779>anti authoritarian Navalny
Nice strawman, /pol/yps nazbol trash. You will never get your anti-american ethnostate in russia, by the way.
I have so much hatred for infrared. I want to find them, and I want to kill them live on steam
>>2783>sharia law>gods law
Can you just drink bleach theist? thanks.
You can't cry about muh racism against you when you literally are racist against western marxists to begin with. Hell you are probably some orientalist self-hating burger anyway.
FIVE HUNDRED FUCKING SUBS
The anti-anglo thing is purely ideological, or rather the incapability to understand dialectical thinking, it has nothing to do with race.
Haz: "This is a partnership [between leftypol.org and Infra]! You can't stop us!"
Lol this guy is a raging lolcow
Or maybe people have an interest in what Infrared has to say?
Anglo actually means "shitty western understanding of marxism leninism". If it were an anglo phenomenon exclusively, it wouldn't be ubiquitous in LATAM. Maybe it has something to do with rejecting Christianity?
You know that is interesting. Everywhere where Marxist theory succeeded and took hold among the masses, the countries have been deeply religious. Whereas Western capitalism is mainly atheistic and secular. Robespierre had a good point about atheistic hedonism being a symbol of decadence.
>cope of the day
>cope of the day
>hold on hold on
>cope of the day
>here we go
>cope of the day
>here we go
>cope of the dayanarchismAnarchism
>strongly disagrees with "revolution is the best way of achieving a socialist society" on leftvalues
Why, Haz? What am I missing?
>>2763>Ok, you know that definitions are just strings of words
They literally are you absolute fucking retard. There is no inherent connection between a specific signified and signifier. Take for example the meaning behind the word socialism (the actual ussr and other aes states, the ideas and especially the desired society of people who call themselves "socialist", the socialist movement, etc.) and the actual word "socialism". This is why you can't obsess over muh dictionary definition. The meaning of a word can't be found out by opening a dictionary or referring some other ultimate authority which somehow creates an unbreakable bond between a word and its meaning. Meaning is actually created through interaction with other meanings. A word on its own without any connection to other words is always totally meaningless. You have to engage with all the ways it arises and is used in the real world.
Andrew Yang gang will lead the revolution in ny
Ask the japanese and vietnamese about China, you retard. Imaging believing, there is THE EAST™
Haz was the one who started this dichotomy argument.
definition just informs use along with context retard. its not wrong to ask for a definition just as it isn't wrong to use materialist dialectics to model what would be the best path forwards in a given context, but you should use neither as an absolute gospel. going the other way and saying "socialism is an experience" is not any less retarded.
Hey haz who do you like more, 9 year old girls or 9 year old goats?
this is a /pol/ tier idpol comment, get out edgelord
Hey Haz, you're a retard and there is no genocide in Palestine. All Palestinians in Israel are full citizens with full civil rights, including freedom of movement and the right to vote. There is no apartheid in Israel.
Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt are apartheid states that refuse after generations to give citizenship to their Palestinian populations. Israel has tried for decades to find a fair solution, and has supported the two-state solution since the beginning (with the sole exception of Netanyahu). Palestine has responded with endless war crimes, atrocities, suicide bombs, hijacked airplanes, and rockets launched at civilian targets (also a war crime). The 1948 war was one in which all the Arab states united in an attempt to exterminate the Jewish people after Europe failed. The Jews have the right to be independent in their native land. All Palestinians in Israel are full citizens and make up 20% of Israel's population.
Furthermore, Palestine's population has increased by 500% since 1948. What kind of a magic genocide makes your population quintuple. Israel gave Gaza total independence in 2005 - Gaza is free Palestine. They have no Israeli occupation, no Jewish leaders, their territory is completely free of Jews (for the first time in 3000 years), just the way Arabs apparently like it.
In exchange for freedom, Gaza has responded with war crime after war crime after war crime. Gaza receives billions of dollars from around the world including USA and Israel. They could use the money for anything they want - and the territory has a lot of needs. They could build infrastructure, schools, hospitals, public transport, parks, gardens, pedestrian-focused mixed-use green urban planning, universities, industries, tech, a water treatment plant, sustainable electricity - literally anything.
Instead, they choose to buy expensive war machines and expensive rockets for the purpose of shooting civilian targets in Israel. Israel is home to both Muslims and Jews, as well as a variety of indigenous groups such as Druze and Bedouins who are persecuted by pan-Arab colonialism elsewhere in the region. Gaza's war crimes target all of these groups. As a result of Hamas's insistence on spending its money on war crimes rather than development, they have produced a blockade, and Israel and Egypt were both forced to close their borders to Gaza. This situation wouldn't exist if the Palestinians in Gaza had elected competent, non-genocidal leadership. Gaza's leadership holds its own population hostage. They use civilian infrastructure to launch missiles into Israel, and they use human shields when Israel is forced to neutralize their war machines.
If Gaza changes its mind and decides that it wants peace, Israel would lift the blockade and open its border overnight. Egypt probably would too. The people of Gaza would be able to travel freely throughout Israel and the West Bank. The situation in Gaza is entirely the fault of Palestine, not Israel. Israel has been sitting at the negotiating table since 1948. Whenever Palestine is ready to stop committing war crimes, they will be able to normalize their relationship with Israel. Palestine is free to make that choice.
There is no systematic effort to kill Palestinians or erase their culture. They are allowed to practice "being Palestinian" freely in Israel; they have total autonomy in Gaza, and ideally they will eventually be given control of the West Bank as well. The vast majority of casualties are the result of war crimes committed by Gaza.
>you don't have to lock people up any more because you can dominate them ideologically
Is Haz "marketplace of ideas" gang? How does ideological domination works in Haz's mind? Pls explain Haz.
I find haz's rhetoric contradicting to who he waves his flag for. Of course, you can give socialism a definition.
The challenge is giving socialism a definition in context to other political nuance.
The definition is predicated on the many variables: >substance: material/metaphysical>quantiy: how many are striking/how many votes>quality: living standards/election more or less fraudulent >relation: twice as many/half>where: India/USSR>when: 2021/post-ww2>position: marching/ sit-in>possesion: armed/their labor>action: direct/very direct >passion: scared/mutilatedanarchismAnarchism
Hey faggots who keep shitting up our board, why not pick up some weights or some shit. There's a reason why Hasanbi gets views, because he's pretty hot and does the same shit that jordan peterson but with a succdem flavor.
>if I'm out for clout why am I heterodox and saying shit that pisses people off?
Because drama gets views. You're intentionally being controversial to get people to engage.
>infrared is going through hell right now defending our unique position
So much for "we're just regular MLs lol, you are the ones being deviant," but hey good on you for being honest about it Haz.
Hate when a profound dialectic happens
>we want to make Marxism-Leninism mainstream
>we want to reduce the barrier to entry
Then why are you talking about philosophers most people never heard of? This is raising the barriers to entry.
Hey Haz, if you have a little time, I'd be willing to chat about socialism, /leftypol/, etc.
I created a throwaway e-mail, you can send me the Zoom invite link on there. [email protected]ddrDDR
oh ok he explained it>we need to start by raising the barrier to entry
This seems kind of dubious though. We'll see how it pans out.
social media is downstream from anonymous forums thoughanarchismAnarchism
We (on the YT chat) are trying to inform Haz of that, just wait a little bit.
>the people getting hurt worse by the coronavirus are the bongs>the burgers are some of the most impoverished people>this is because the elites are disregarding their own people as their reach exceeds their graspBASED>>2831
vaush is downstream from leftypol
he tried to steal the polface meme
.org user in the middle, gorrilas in the back
Yeah I am getting some cigarettes anyway. Will be ready in 10 minddrDDR
I don't have a throwaway Twitter account Haz.ddrDDR
DDR anon, personal message https://twitter.com/ShowInfrared
I can do it for you. And then I will send the zoom invite to the mail you've given.
It's a pain in the arse to create a throwaway account on Twitter, they want like tons of confirmations. Can't he just send a mail? That takes like 10 seconds.ddrDDR
>>2843> the two greatest schizo posters ever reuniting in one call
old BO was right to ban youleft_communismLeft Communism
this its fucking pathetic
great, more activity and its all about giggling over some narcissistic pseud blogger
You seem like a big baby, grow up man.
Haz, what's the Material reason for Anglos beings cancer
Anybody wanting a shout-out?ddrDDR
No thanks, but good luck
make one, lol
like, it takes 2 minutes
When will you go live?
Haz can you have sex with my girlfriend while I watch? I will dm you on twitter if you say yes
What the fuck are you doing jannies? Why are you endorsing e-celeb faggotry? This guy's goons are shitting up every thread they touch. This is why /IG/ was a mistake.
Also you guessed right I live in england. please stretch out her white pussy with your large arab goatcock and take her away from me forever
>>2818>tfw he reads half of your post and calls you retarded
I doubt he's actually read anything at allanarchismAnarchism
If Anglos invented civilization then why did they have to use the innovative works of Arab philosophers and scientists from the Islamic Golden Age? The people that actually made the effort to keep the philosophers of Rome and Greece preserved for everyone. Never let an Anglo tell you that Adam Smith invented modern political economic theory, that credit goes to Ibn Khaldun.
Just history friend
What's your favorite book by Marx, Haz?
How is this different to Samuel P. Huntigton?
HAZ, STOP LOOKING AT THIS FUCKING THREAD AND START INVITING GUESTS OVER AT YOUR TWITTER
HOLY SHIT DUDE
NO HAZ, KEEP READING THE THREAD
WE WILL KEEP POSTING
"On the Jewish Question" is probably the most misrepresented thing by Marx. Also the 18th Brumaire is a fucking AMAZING BOOK
Y O U
A R E
G O A T
F U C K E R
Sent you the zoom link, check your emails.
Can you post here when you sent the mail so I can check itddrDDR
GET DDR ANON ON HIS STREAM ALREADY
the ride never ends
Check your mails please.
Please check your mails, he's waiting for you.
What does this mean? Like a Clash of Civilizations type thing?
>>2878>Like a Clash of Civilizations type thing?
Get on, this is epic
Well I think the fact that the Arabs took classic works from Greek and Roman philosophers, learned from them and expanded upon them, and then Europeans took from the Arabs all of their progress from over 500+ years is a far more collaborationist outlook on civilization than an antagonistic one that I assume Huntington talks about in his book. There was much more collaboration and trade between Europe and the Arab caliphates than war. I'm not too familiar with Clash of Civilization or Huntington himself so I'm just going off of the Wikipedia summary so feel free to correct me.
Haz is terminally online
He unironically said (multiple times) that live streaming is more real and important than direct action.
He thinks that everything is downstream from social media, especially people like Vaush and Jordan Peterson. It's like if you took Peter Coffin's idea about attention economy and organized your entire conception of political economy around that.
>>2885>He thinks that everything is downstream from social media, especially people like Vaush and Jordan Peterson
Does Haz unironically believe, that social media is not rigged?
Have you tried going there my man?
Being rigged doesn't contradict that idea though.
Based DDR poster
Eudaimonia who was on the Infrared stream has agreed to direct a reading group for material related to Infraredist-thought. We'll be going over some short texts by Marx and Engels, then branch out to Lacan, Heidegger, Zizek, Land, Lenin etc.
Get matrix if you want to join.https://matrix.to/#/#IBC:matrix.org?via=matrix.org
Yeah so that was that. What was it about Gentle Ginjeet in the chat? I didn't see the chat.ddrDDR
He wanted to debate Haz, and is going on now.
Ginjeet reminds me of a character straight from the Fallout universe. He will give you to weird quests
How the fuck is even possible for them to grown so fast?
They literally gained 15 subs in 4 hours.sandinistaSandinista
That was a great show. Really enjoyed listening to you.
You were great DDR anon, You're cute too
Posting more content gets you more engagement. It's not that complicated.
Like Ginjeet's energy somewhat, he feels like some kind of fringe streamer talking about the apocalypse in his basement from Hungary who everybody discards as a crazy person but then the apocalypse actually happens and he has warned about it for years.ddrDDR
He's Romanian right?>>2902
Perfect description lmao
respects psychoanalysis though, it is like "proving" you are Anglos by saying you are right-handed just like many Anglos. There is nothing particularly Asian or Leninist about shilling for psychoanalysis. Freud wasn't a Marxist. Freud-worshipping "Marxists" tend to be student wankers in Western Europe. Lenin only had a brief dismissive remark about Freud and the like.>>2655
Anybody espousing this position is effectively anti-communist.>>2773
And what of that can't you get from reading Wittgenstein instead of sucking dead nazi dick?
He's from Hungary, I think.
WTF do you have against computers anon?
same problem I have with glasses
It was a comment about the picture.
Oh I didn't see the cursor earlier. My bad. I agree then.
Isn't this like a kind of twisted materialism?sandinistaSandinista
Gentle Ginjeet was based as fuck.
Ginjeet was based. I started a bit slow and weird but then it really went into a good direction.ddrDDR
thanks for comparing me to fucking burger preppers, dude (kek)
I'm listening to this and zizek talks about a lot of interesting stuff here. Definitely check it out.
Wonder why Haz hasn't gone full MLM? The only thing that seems different is his disagreements with the whole settlers rhetoric.
DDR anon, I just want to say that I've learned more from your posts than from anyone's before. Not joking. I really fucking appreciate you being here, comrade.
As for your performance on Infra: you weren't fanatic/aggressive
enough, dude. Nine out of ten times I KNEW 100% what you were trying to say, but you failed to stick to your point, then you abandoned it for "discussion's" sake, you know what I mean?
HAVE A FUCKING SHAMELESS AGENDA, DUDE, AND STICK TO IT
>>2904>Virtually nobody respects psychoanalysis though
Anglo, you are not respected in this thread.
the channel subs are growing like crazy damn
they can't be stopped, dudeGOOD for them!!!
>>2919>Wonder why Haz hasn't gone full MLM?
Because with his current ideology he gets the same emotional high of MLM but while blaming 'anglos', a group which apparently doesn't involve himself as a relatively-well off American.
I thought that was obviousanarchismAnarchism
>Haz works for the cia
Nah he does it for free
he’s literally right. go pick a person off the street and ask them what they think of Freud. the first thing people learn about him is the Oedipus complex shit
Ich bin kein Anglo du Spast. War Lenin Anglo weil er nicht mit Freud gekokst hat oder was? Has du überhaupt irgendwas zu sagen außer Memegepupse?
Yeah to be able to livestream for hours you have to be somewhat well off compared to the average worker barely above the poverty line. Still I subbed for the theory and the laughs and his takes a pretty in line with MLMs and other leftists who actually do shit in meatspace.
Based Haz shitting on dogmatists
To be fair, Freud also gave away cocaine for birthday gifts too.
It's hard to look past a controversial personality for many people.
That's also true. It's not a problem with Marx though.
QUADS HAVE SPOKENsandinistaSandinista
HAZ is asking this in his live stream right now:Should Haz Stop Browsing Leftypol?https://www.strawpoll.me/42590095/
He should read newsanon threads tbhanarchismAnarchism
>>2935>It's hard to look past a controversial personality for many people.
Unlike how it's for you, an intellectual, who knows how to separate.
So in other words, you have a tidy box
for when and where the character is making theory, and another tidy box
for when and where the character is merely uh… charactering. This neat and clean separation allows you to add epicycles
remove unnecessary character clutter from his magnificent theory. So just because he fabricated stories about how his sessions with his patients went and how the cases actually developed – as one can see from his private correspondence and unpublished material – this doesn't mean that the theory he built on these fabrications is tarnished, because you put the theory in another box.
I'm glad we cleared that up.
And the worst part is that pseuds like Haz and friends will call you a 'reformist downwardly mobile petit bourgeois' for actually working towards material concessions like healthcare instead of sniffing your own farts all day.
do you think I'm trying to debunk freud retard? there is no ulterior motive. I'm just saying psychoanalysis isn't held in high regard by the general public. that's a fact. you can agree or disagree or move on. but none of those options include this greentext shit.
Infrared were totally on the Bernie train in 2016 though.
They also are on the Force the Vote trainsandinistaSandinista
it's retarded day 1 b8 for haz to take tomorrow, I reckonanarchismAnarchism
Yeah and he openly said that some of the infrared members campaigned for Bernie too. But I mean If I was a Burger I could have seen myself do just that in the context of 2016.
That makes it sound like the current angle is a form of coping.
He called Bernie a good guy who let his good personality ruin his political effectiveness and praised Huey Long. So he isn't a ultra-left or Maoist who thinks all reform is inherently fascist.
you mean shit you made up and projected based on arguments you had on /leftypol/
what the fuck are you talking about? take your burger brain shit out of this thread
>>2946>Infrared were totally on the Bernie train in 2016 though.
Was this before Haz realized, that we already live in socialism?
anglos isn't a race
He was asked if Bernie was a socialist in our modern day "socialism for the rich" >sure>yeah he's socialist>BUT WHAT IS SOCIALIST? >word saladanarchismAnarchism
free my nigga ginjeet
There are like 3 white guys in their group though?
I don't give a fuck, this "anglo" meme has run its course. It's idpol, it's right wing, and it's racist.>>2959>anglos isn't a race
Bullshit, as if it wasn't sakai worshipping faggots who think deporting whites is socialism popularized this shit, if you're going to tell me that there isn't a racial tone to it then you're full of shit.
>>2964>I don't give a fuck, this "anglo" meme has run its course. It's idpol, it's right wing, and it's racist.
No it isn't, it signifies a historical phenomenon related to the British empire.
They've been explicit about it not being about race, and they have anglos and other whites in their group, but you're gonna scream RACISM and hope they go away.
he's literally a reactionary axe this shit mods
They even went so far as to say that the anglo menace oppressed anglo-saxons first
before expanding to the rest of the world.
literally incomprehensible nonsense
>>2971>English bourgeoisie oppressed English proletariat before they expanded and colonized much of the world to find more people to oppress
What about this is a difficult concept?
every time I try and figure out what people are talking about when they talk about infrared, I learn new and fascinating things about why I should definitely not get involved. and yes this is identical to Vaush's little fad, and Destiny, and the cumtown people and Chapo and Dore and whichever other crank is trying to grift the internet this week. no I don't give a fuck how based they ostensibly are. yes their revisionism is a problem. no CPUSA is not actually a communist party. CPC neither. read a bookread_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book
See, how hard was it to just use normal human words instead of trying to sound like some degenerate college intellectual?
This is just lazy anglo seething.
Can someone explain why they think we are already living in "socialism"?
I want to try to explain this socialism thing as I understand it.
He basically contrasts it with the idea of neoliberalism, calling it a fake story we're being fed of a competitive free market society where dog eats dog, when in reality our economy is socialized, banks are bailed out and hedge funds are protected. He makes some points about capital today being moved according to social signals (from politicians, deals made with other companies, pentagon, reptilians) rather than simple profit motive. The benefactors of this socialism/socialized economy are obviously the rich, but the idea is that all the working class needs to do now is just seize political power since all the institutions capable of organizing our economy in for a *real* socialism are already in place.
Whether you agree with calling it socialism, I think it's an interesting line of thought, and I *beg* you people not to dismiss them just because you don't understand immediately what they're saying. They are actually quite good at communicating their beliefs at a layman's level when they aren't banging their chests and measuring their theory dicks against smartass leftypol faggots.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=956tf4lXR4w&t
He goes through some length to explain it at the start of this stream (stream starts at around 15 minutes)tankieTankie
Should've probably tagged you too.tankieTankie
None of this is new shit though. Michael hudson has been saying for years "We already have a planned economy, it's just that it's planned on wall street" and there's also stuff like People's Republic of Walmart, etc etc. I don't disagree with the idea, but saying that "actually we already live in socialism" is a fucking retarded way to describe it, and I honestly would expect leftypol to know that these are not new ideas, but for some reason they're treating these e-celeb weirdos like they're some fresh new thinkers, but all they're doing is regurgitating really basic shit in the most overcomplicated way possible.
Nobody is a special snowflake whose ideas are totally original – they synthesize knowledge they've learned from others. Haz is correct: Don't talk shit about people putting themselves out there unless you're willing to step up and do it yourself. If you want to be a player, you have to get in the game.
I was initially skeptical but then I started listening and they're doing cool shit. Fan Wennan is based. Katya Kazbek is based. I don't even agree with them on everything about Jimmy Dore or whoever.
So what? They're not the ones making a big deal out of this termonology, you are. They have a million interesting things to talk about, but seething anglos want to hyper focus on anything that makes infrared look stupid.
No socialist idea has ever been "new"; Bernie's ideas were never supposed to be "new" or "radical" ideas, and neither were Lenin's ideas. They're meant to connect with the American working class on a deeper level; they only seem "new" because of the way they are framed in light of the orthodoxy of official leftist ideologies.
"you can't give criticism unless you also do exactly the same thing" is a really faggy copout and always has been. NOOOO YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE THIS MOVIE UNLESS YOU LITERALLY DIRECT AN ENTIRE FILM YOURSELF!!! Shut the fuck up faggot.>>2985>>2984
Why are you simping so hard for these weirdos
You do realize that the whole anglo meme was supposed to be ironic, right? As a way to mock the aut-right's hyper focus on seeing jews everywhere they look.
That was the Irish meme, newfag. Anglo has specific connotations to the British empire and USA. And yes, it's still mostly a meme. I'm basically Anglo. Now stop seething.
Anglos did nothing wrong. shut down the catholic oppressors.
Making a YouTube video is not the same as directing a movie. I'm sure you have the means to make a video if you had the balls.
You can always watch something else or do something else if you don't want to make your own videos and instead prefer to just sit in this thread complaining that other people are enjoying another group of people putting a platform together to talk about Marxist shit and also invite on leftypol's very own DDR anon, who was really interesting. What they're doing is way more interesting to me (anyways) than most of the threads going on here right now.
Like, do you sit around and complain that other people like Vaush? I've never listened to the guy ever and don't know anything about him. Maybe he's a prick, or maybe he's a smart guy, I don't know. But whatever you think about him, sitting around and complaining about him is not going to make any difference.
Yeah, noting that the centralisation of capital leads to an easier transition to socialism is nothing new. Marx and Engels constantly wrote about it
Are they pro- lockdown gimps?lenin_capLenin Cap
I like infrared.
I have some criticism I'm dying to make, but I don't want to embarrass myself :/
Maybe I'll go on to prod them on their take on dialectical materialism.zapatistaZapatista
but embarrassment is dialectical. this is diamat 101
Holy shit is this the ddr guy? he's fat and hideous just as I expected
show yourself, coward.zapatistaZapatista
The topic should be the documentary Jason did recently.
He looks and acts like a normal stand-up guy, IDK wtf your problem is
idk about weight but his receding hairline is not a good look on him.
shut the fuck up about his looks dude, just an average guy who cares
Nigga, he's handsome. lol. show your face, jealous asshole.>>3004
fuck offfff hahahaha where are all these jealous niggas coming from.zapatistaZapatista
>>2967>Anglos<All white people
Dude we literally don't care about your subhuman cringe, you're 33% of white people at best lolsandinistaSandinista
This meme is something elsesandinistaSandinista
It's not about the anglo race. It's about a mentality. It's ubiquitous in all of the western world except maybe indigenous populations (in my experience, not fetishising them).
I mentioned here that it might have something to do with rejecting religion. That western marxism has something to do with the "christian atheist" mentality. >>2797
One of the things I have issues with is that they try to rehabilitate marxism through heidegger (+ Lacan), but I think that's totally wrong. I think it needs to be rehabilitated through Hegel + Lacan, as Zizek does.
Disclaimer: I'm not big brained.zapatistaZapatista
This is standard marxism btw.
The increase in the contradiction between private property and socialized production keeps increasing and this is the resultsandinistaSandinista
Asking you anons: Do you want me to start publishing clip from Infrared lives on my channel?sandinistaSandinista
To be fair, Haz says that those are not new ideas and that they come from the Marxist-Leninist tradition. I think they come over however as really edgy and cooked up because they use some unorthodox terminology, like saying "we already live in socialism" and all that. They integrate thinkers like Deleuze and Heidegger who are not usually the first stop in any Marxist-Leninist reading group, which confuses people, but as far as I see it, their politics are not antithetical to Marxism-Leninism and are usually correct. You know with most theory YouTubers, they have dogshit politics. Take Cuck Philosophy for example, he doesn't misrepresent the philosophers he's talking about (ironically, except Marx) but you already know he's got dogshit politics because he's some kind of left-com/ultra-radical d00d or whatever. With infrared, they offer the opportunity of integrating modern, overlooked philosophy into a solid political framework along the lines of Marxism-Leninism without selling out/compromising on the issues. That is a synthesis I can support even though I disagree on some of the theoretical shit they are saying but I'm tolerant of that because it doesn't lead them towards political blunders in praxis.
When you watch my discussion with him I tried to push into that direction you are insinuating here, that those phenomena are not new but "I wouldn't call it socialism" because a lot of this stuff is already in Lenin etc.
Watching this clipped debate is pretty horrible though because I talked faster than I expected, swallowing some words.ddrDDR
I personally don't really care, but did you actually have to show your face for the debate? Giving that kind of public information seems more risky then rewarding, especially as an anonymous person.
It's optional, if that's what you're asking.
they were simping for more pics and you fell for their trap
My man, totally appreciate that critique. Yeah, I tend to not insist on my core points for the sake of finding compromise, working IRL in some heterodox left-wing coalitions does that to you
, but I can promise that if I ever do this shit again, especially with people who are out opponents like Vaush, I will not try to find common ground at all. >>3014
Aw, stop. Why not though, we all need someone to love.>>3015
Ginjeet did it, the guy he had on the day before yesterday (forgot the name) did it at least for a moment, so I thought why not. I am not situationed anywhere IRL where "XYZ went on Infrared" would cause me to have problems (it did until last year, but I'm not gonna elaborate on that), and I hope I didn't embarrass myself so yeah.ddrDDR
unironic inspiration and also future husbandozapatistaZapatista
Anyway, will stop flagposting ITT now so we can focus on the topic at hand, how we can use Infrared as a platform to further our interests.
Is that a recent picture because your hairline has gone back quite a bit.
stupid, easily led people, who themselves don't have anything good to say. He gets points though for being the first ever leftist streaming (apart from piker) who doesn't look like shit. (apparently the only good looking american leftists are arabs go figure) >>2816
Haz wouldn't even slam Steve Bannon in jail smh>>2820>I am a marxist leninist but eh, me streaming is better than trade unions
EL EM AY OH kinda annoyed i missed him saying this shit. Sounds like I would have KEKD at how retarded he is. Still people here simp him. Its like they are literally just looking for a daddy to fawn over.
Oh and in general the fact that this word "heterdox" keeps coming like fucking lmao bro "i'm a non conformist marxist" i.e. a special fucking snowflake pseudo marxist. >>2828>he thinks his barrier to entry is high >he thinks you do marxism from an invory tower passing down the message.
NO YOU DON'T. YOU DO IT BY ORGANISING WORKERS IN THEIR WORKPLACES AND COMMUNITIES JESUS LORD HOW DO SO FEW OF YOU "COMMUNISTS" UNDERSTAND THIS. THE AMOUNT OF LENIN, MAO, ETC I SEE QUOTED AND LITERALLY SO FEW OF YOU ACTUALLY GET EVEN THE SMALLEST BIT OF WHAT THEY MEANT. MY GOD.
ORGANISE. I.E. MAKE MAKE THEM INTO EFFECTICE UNITS FOR CARRYING OUT ACTIONS, INSTILLING LEADERSHIP STRUCTURES AND DEMOCRATIC STRUCTURES, DECISION MAKING PROCESSES, BINDING ONES, THROUGH WHICH ACTION. DIRECT. ACTION. IS EXECUTED. YOU CAN CRY ONLINE ALL YOU WANT. YOU NEED TO ORGANISE AND ARMY OF WORKERS, BY WORKERS, FOR WORKERS. GOD FUCKING DAMN.
YES. THE INTERNET IS A GOOD PLACE FOR SPREADING THE WORD. IF THAT WORF IS ANTI STRIKE THAN YOU ARE DOING IT FUCKING WRONG. BUT LETS BE REAL NO ONE FUCKING SINGLE STREAMER GIVES A SINGLE FUCK ABOUT ORGANISING WORKERS OR HAS ANY IDEA OF ACTUALLY DOING. IT IS LITERALLY JUST PSEUDS WANKING THEMSELVES OFF AND ALL LITTLE CUCKS DRINKING UP THE OFF SHOOT. LORD ALMIGHTY JESUS. >>2840>everything i dont like is fascist
yawn i think hes retarded but please. >>2856
it was probably a mod that posted the thread, at least one of them simps him pretty hard. >>2921
literally nobody respects physcobabble though its for pseuds and radlibs >>2929
he is anti direct action >>2933
way more people are into class struggle than muh benis >>2934
This is my main gripe, Haz, do you even have a job? Have you ever had a job? Also word on the street is you said strikes are "too big scale" to be called direct action. Absolutely lmao. Does 1 piece of gold weighing 1g cease to be gold when it when weights 10,000kg? No. Fucking kek. "ontological disruption" lmao you pretentious asshole Haz. >>2973
based. Although More nuance on China needed. >>2983
HAHAHAHA. Who got them twitter posts of libs saying "don't critique Joe Biden and Kamal Harris, obviously they are smart uh, they are in the white house, come back to me when you are in the white house" jesus fuck maybe i was wrong about trolling Haz for poomps, it seems we have brought in literal, actual libs. Fuck.
I better not see you critising literally anybody at all my guy, until you have literally lived their life exactly as they have. >>2992
thats because you are a zoomer who watches youtube streamers and probably twitch as well, ALL OF WHICH is trash. Complete trash. >>3013
You don't look so bad DDR guy. Just SO German. Not that that is a bad thing just Germans have a particular look. how old are you though you look young as hell
Sage are you actually going to keep shit posting like this when you don't even bother to check the stream with his responses to your posts? How full of yourself are you?
Somehow this standard Marxism is enough for brainlets to cancel him
Haz shouldn't react to this thread next time, there aren't really any effortposts critiquing him outside the direct action autism he has addressed at length. It's a semantic debate. Actually deliver some content he can react to, can be memes as well. Or go on his stream, he doesn't bite.
I don't have every night to waste on this assholes streams and would I fuck show my face on /leftypol/, I would probably lose a bunch of friends who are trade unionists etc if it got out, given lots of people here are prone to saying nigger etc and being virulently transphobic. I don't even think he is THAT bad, but he is clearly unable to admit when he has made a huge error of retardation. If he would simply admit "yes, i was wrong, strikes are direct action and direct action is therefore good, infact, the most important thing a communist can do, when done correctly" it would be fine, but he has this online streamer mindset where he just isn't going to back down no matter what cos he has to win muh debate.So instead of saying "oh i didn't think of it like that" he says "yeh its not direct action is ontological disruption"
Has he ever read any book even by any trade unionist about union organising? Fucking doubt it. If he had he wouldn't be continuing to argue its not direct action. Until he admits it, I'm gonna be here, calling him a retard, with nuance, cos some of his takes are okay. >>3029
well you have retained your youth better than me. Although i'm hairy like the arab so i've always looked old. >>3031>he has addressed at length.
doubt it if he is still upholding what he originally said.
Also, no, Haz, I will not come on your stream for reasons discussed above, but why don't you, Haz, post on leftypol, you can't critique me unless you are doing what I am doing, as you have said so many times. :):):):):)
These are actually me btw put a typo in my trip
>>3032>I don't have every night to waste on this assholes streams
No one is asking you to devote "every night", just at least watch the part where he responds to your posts before making new posts? How is this too much to ask?
if anybody has it recorded and time stamped I will gladly watch it and respond
Past few weeks I've seen unironic nazbol shit even holocaust denialpiratePirate
>>2812>All Palestinians in Israel are full citizens
Except the ones in the bantustan
All middle east countries (with possible exception of Iran) are apartheid statespiratePirate
Okay is goddam 6 and a half hours long, at least give a clue please
just scroll through it, he went through the thread from top to bottom, it's not hard to find.
I just want to point out if you have 6 hours in a day to stream you don't have a job
1 hour 25 minutes. But you should watch him reading the whole thread.
Haz goes to law school
By the looks of it you won't need to in 2 decades.
Okay okay OKAy
>strikes aren't direct action because they aren't premised by individual direct action.
Yeh, cos its fucking collective action. How the fuck does it being institutionally lead direct action not make it direct action? It just makes it effective direct action.
was just checking he was a lib talking about baby boiling or some other bourgeios lie, but he didn't know what "sendero luminoso" meant he knew the anglo language version tho kek
>doesn't support the CPUSA
what okay either he is telling outrageous lies or I grossly misheard, pretty sure he was on about how the CPUSA was shit but the only thing worth joining or something though, no i cba to go back through all his videos.
eh, I'm not some anarchist, I know China needs to survive but like, Venezuela and Cuba do a better job than they do at internationalism despite having fuck all resources, if they can do it china can.
>you are a trot/american
Stalin helped out Cuba you melt calm down. And I have Irish roots. Live in Scotland. Don't you dare call me a burger. No i don't believe in permanent revolution, I believe in protracted peoples war.
>it sucks that there was gulags, they shouldn't be celebrated
I literally said this in the post. A disgrace I called them. There was no celebration, just a cold analysis of necessity. Rupert Murdoch is getting locked away, if you don't want this you are not my comrade.
>they had to get the common… …. (long pause)… they had to get the people of the street
Haz literally catches himself before calling normal people common lmao.
who is this guy alex jones? some qanon guy? Yeh, propoganda is good but jesus christ.
>calls me a trot
>you can get hegemony through infowars
literally wheezing with laughter at this. Its calle class WAR haz, not class debate club.
>look i didn't ban anyone on my stream
yes Haz, because its a fucking stream, it doesn't fucking matter in the grand scheme of things, which allows you to be liberal in this way. also
>you can just dominate them ideologically
they own the fuckin entire media, no you can't, unless you take it off them.. i.e. put them in a gulag.
>you can just make them feel bad
>we all have the gorilla energy
kek Mike Cernovich intensifies.
>i don't squat
Absolute bitch confirmed
you are growing infrared haz i'm growing unions, we are not the same
> we are all gorrilas
lmao simps gonna simp
hahahaha now hes just skipping over my arguments. DESTROYED WITH FACTS AND LOGIC
>let me go on record saying live streaming is more impactful than direct action
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I'm not even gonna answer this, you should all know that answer to this, and if not you are internet brained out of your tiny pathetic mind
Go sell some news papers, trot
>only ten people get involved in direct action
>in india right now there are millions of people, actual proletariat not fucking law students, striking.
Haz, you should really come to me with your hat in your hands for this
>you are taking your time to talk about me
Yeh but i'm not sitting there for 6 hours screaming at a thread like you haz you mug
>you have no balls
no I have a life that i wouldn't stain my reputation with this nerd shit kek
Never sold a paper, not in my entire life. I have however organised 2 different workplaces and large amounts of tenants but sure no my youtube is making a huge difference
Haz is based, anglo mindset is hell. Compare Anglican to catholic church. Satanic Anglo must be defeatedbrocialismBrocialism
Wanna rewatch Haz going KING KONG
on that guy on stream? Then here's the link anons:https://youtu.be/eQda56wpevEsandinistaSandinista
all those clicks and not one single argument. Imagine being a leftist and not knowing about collective action
Just bc Zizek is so incoherent it triggers analytic types doesn't make him anti-anglo. He was briefly a neolib political candidate in the 90s, today he would be a tolerable socdem if not for his anglo-compatible geopolitical takes (NATO ish good, Shina ish fashishm durr).>>3012>unorthodox terminology, like saying "we already live in socialism"
That's not unorthodox terminology, that is either sheer idiocy or terminal narcissism. You can't even have a talk between six people if each of them insists on using their own special private language.>Deleuze
One of those star philosophers that strings together words from math and physics he doesn't understand like the "spirit science" guy on YT
>>3061>you can't even have a talk between six people if each of them insists on using their own special private language.
It's not special private language, it conforms to Marxist theory perfectly and is used to invoke a reaction in people, to get them to think about socialism more dialectically.>One of those star philosophers
Come on now.
If he doesn't squat you know he doesn't deadlift.
I bet Haz skips leg day
dude capitalism and schizophrenia is retarded. deterritorialization is retarded and you should feel bad for using it.
>>3062>it conforms to Marxist theory perfectly…
It is neither what communist parties are saying and you know that, nor is it what mainstream talk is like, and you know that as well. It isn't even specialist academic Marxist jargon (which would also be a failure for anybody who wants to communicate with a broad audience). It doesn't even qualify for subculture language, the language of a scene, it is smaller than that. Me and my brother also come up with private words and in-jokes, should I shout these terms into the world and act offended when strangers don't get what I mean? Oh, I guess that means they aren't as intellectual as I am!>…and is used to invoke a reaction in people
And the reaction, whether conservative or progressive or vegetarian or whatever, is this: This youtuber is a retarded attention whore.>>One of those star philosophers>Come on now.
Deleuze was a star philosopher in France and the book "What is Philosophy" which he wrote with Guattari was a best-seller. Depending on where you live and how old you are, this isn't really that obscure knowledge, so my impression is that you are very new to this discourse and you fake having knowledge by talking with an attitude. You are an embarrassment.
Yes, it's perfectly fine to change the meaning of words if you think it communicates something more profound. If you and your brother made up a word that explains the world better than a previous word, do your best to get it to catch on.
Show me where they get offended because it isn't understood. I guarantee you all you'll find is seethe posts like yours being responded to in kind.
He said at the end of the last one he won't be able to stream for a few days because he a paper he has to work on.Ithink he said he might be able to stream wednesday or thurday at the earliest.
how the fucking christ does saying "ackshually we already line in socialism" explain the world better and not just confuse the shit out of, uhh, everybody.
Him and 'actually billionaires are socialist' Maupin should do a double act
Where does Maupin say this? Not defending the guy, just interested in seeing it.
This isn't a fucking new thing, it's being said my a lot of Marxist theorists. We live in a planned economy that is controlled by the bourgeoisie. That is what they're trying to get across.
It would probably be better to say something like proto-socialism when you are advocating socialist politics, rather than to say socialism is the status quo (which people hate).
Yes, maybe it's a bad plan to call it socialism, but that doesn't excuse the anglo-autism of people here.
That's my fucking point. It's not new and this way they're trying to rephrase it is fucking retarded.
>>3081>Elements of socialism exist within capitalism, just as elements of capitalism will exist within socialism.
That seems to be their point, and they argue that the socialist part of the dialectic has become the dominant.
That is the worst name for an article I have ever seen
>>3067>Yes, it's perfectly fine to change the meaning of words if you think it communicates something more profound.
If you want to be understood, what actually makes sense is to come up with new
names for new
concepts. What does not make sense is coming up with new meanings for old words while keeping the new meaning to yourself and then chimping out when people are incredulous. This only makes sense if communication isn't really your goal and you have been completely infantilized by "social media" and impulsively do whatever stupid shit that makes your stupid score go up – likes, subscribers, etc.>>3077>This isn't a fucking new thing, it's being said my a lot of Marxist theorists. We live in a planned economy that is controlled by the bourgeoisie.
That's not socialism. As you know.>>3079>maybe it's a bad plan to call it socialism>maybe
The other poster >>3078
concisely made the point why it is retarded to talk that way
. You have failed so far to make a single argument for talking that way. Your position seems to be that here we have a group of people who say what is old news to many Marxists, and they make the point in such a convoluted manner that they sound retarded and they already get a negative reactions from the people most sympathetic to the position. Banal content, atrocious delivery. Like and subscribe.
It's not convoluted, they explain it quite clearly. The reason you had trouble understanding it is your ass started bleeding as soon as you heard it.
Here's Ezra explaining the "we live in sociaism" thing.https://youtu.be/pbu-AAlqDJg?t=572>>3088
No, maybe it's bad propaganda, but these people just started out, they haven't exactly had to go through the fire of leftypol autism before. What will it take for you to calm your anglo and approach this in good faith?
Zizek speaks here against the """anglo"""" (positivist) view of matter in relation to materialism. https://youtu.be/MkBuJv2WpSE
After rewatching that video i think one thing is clear: They're trying to build a synthesis between Marx and Heidegger that in their vision could work better for the "West". I find this pretty much interesting.
The problem is that such an effort is useless without them drafting at least an analysis of the current material conditions of the Us (or any other country), and with them being kinda hostile towards Cockshott and with mixed feelings about the Prolekult guys (i cite them cause they're the only two groups currently working on policies).
That's my take on them.sandinistaSandinista
They criticize cockshott for being utopian, when they have yet to relate their rhetoric to a current event/nation.
I feel that with enough push and pull they could be made to accept some of Cockshott policies, even if maintaining their philosophical views. We (as people who watch their streams) should do that.sandinistaSandinista
Was planning to address some people specifically, but since so many people still don't understand Infrared's message, I figured everyone should be reading this.
Even those who purport to understand and even be mildly approving of Infrared's vision of socialism don't seem to get it completely. "We live in socialism" is not just a "propaganda tactic", it is a reflection of reality overlooked by dogmatic Marxists. The Anglo mindset is to stick to a rigid definition of socialism popularized in the 19th Century and expect it to be sound in the Digital Age of the 21st Century. It's not that these definitions of socialism are outdated in essence, but the words taken to express them are operating in a bygone framework. In other words, no, Infrared would not fucking look at the demands made in the Manifesto and say "they're wrong because they're outdated!" At the core these things are pointing to a material force that corresponds to socialism, but the substantive demands themselves are not "tenets" of a socialist "doctrine".
This perfectly lines up with why Infrared attacks the Anglo mindset so frequently. Here's a quick and dirty analogy of the Anglo brain rot: The Anglo has an apple. He places it in a box labeled fresh produce. Three months later, he gives the box to his friend as a gift. The friend tastes the apple inside the box, and announces that is obviously rotten. The Anglo flares up with indignation: "What do you mean, it's fresh produce!" If the apple corresponds to the material forces behind socialism, then the Anglo autism box labeled "fresh produce" is your shitty definition of socialism.
Also, Haz does not refer to the "centralization of capital" as "socialism". It is the opposite, he very clearly explains that he is referring to the "decentralization" present in a infinite cyclical process. So no, he is not just referring to the immediately obvious phenomenon of capitalism you can get from a cursory glance at Marx and Lenin's works. The decentralization compared to the state capitalism of the first half of 20th Century is the victory of socialism.
And even if this shit is just a "propaganda tactic", it is actually quite effective; just not to some of you dogmatic Marxists with a preconceived Anglo definitions of things. To an average person, nobody is going to call you a revisionist or Nazbol or whatever the fuck because they don't have an attachment to their preconceived idea of socialism. So, in other words, watch Infrared and grow the fuck up.
How could you address the points made in >>3092
Infrared def has a lot of good insight.
I wouldn't agree that we live in socialism yet, but more like on the fringe and last death throes of imperialism being torn apart by socialism.
People need to realize that socialism is an inevitable objective reality that can't be neatly put into a list of criteria
There is no tendency towards decentralization.>And even if this shit is just a "propaganda tactic", it is actually quite effective; just not to some of you dogmatic Marxists
This is hometown for your band. If you get very loud boos here, the booing will physically push you off the stage elsewhere.
>>3095>The Anglo mindset<The jewish mindset
>The decentralization compared to the state capitalism of the first half of 20th Century is the victory of socialism.
Decentralization is the opposite
of what capital does, that's literally the main takeaway from marxism.
Haz mentioned he doesn't think much of Cockshott, I doubt he's even read him. I think if he actually read some of Cockshott's takes on philosphy, he'd see it as vulgar and "anglo".
I don’t see how anybody can call him utopian when TANS was literally intended as policy proposals for the ussr at the time
>>3095>This perfectly lines up with why Infrared attacks the Anglo mindset so frequently. Here's a quick and dirty analogy of the Anglo brain rot: The Anglo has an apple. He places it in a box labeled fresh produce. Three months later, he gives the box to his friend as a gift. The friend tastes the apple inside the box, and announces that is obviously rotten. The Anglo flares up with indignation: "What do you mean, it's fresh produce!" If the apple corresponds to the material forces behind socialism, then the Anglo autism box labeled "fresh produce" is your shitty definition of socialism.
If you're not defining socialism in concrete terms relative to the mechanisms, or lack thereof, of capitalism, then your definition of socialism is already bankrupt. The mechanisms of capitalism, and thus the contradictions within it that push us towards socialism or ruin, are fundamentally the same as they were in Marx's time. Yes, you can place other developments such as the dominance of finance capital on top of such mechanisms, but the mechanisms themselves remain unchanged. As stated, Socialism is defined relative to these, and thus a proper definition of socialism should encounter no issue. There should be no "rot" so to speak. >And even if this shit is just a "propaganda tactic", it is actually quite effective; just not to some of you dogmatic Marxists with a preconceived Anglo definitions of things. To an average person, nobody is going to call you a revisionist or Nazbol or whatever the fuck because they don't have an attachment to their preconceived idea of socialism. So, in other words, watch Infrared and grow the fuck up
It's not effective at all. Not only is the average person not going to be able to understand the additional ideological background which has been placed in addition
to Marx, but hearing the words "we already live in socialism" when they are most likely opposed to what they currently live in is not going to win you support, and thinking otherwise is nothing else but terminally online stupidity. Saying to a worker who feels trapped within the grind of his job, his very life taken every day from him, that he "already lives in socialism" will not win them to your side, because as I stated earlier, they don't won't understand any of the convoluted ideological background to that statement. There first mental response is probably going to be "This is socialism? Who, this sucks."
as he should. I don’t know why people on this board try to defend Cockshott’s Dawkins-tier takes. actually I do know why but that’s not the point.
Since when is communism about cajoling people into the totes awesome workers' republic? You're assigning the word "socialism" positive connotations it doesn't have, and those positive connotations come about from the same failed campaign Haz complains about with Anglo Marxists - an attempt to cajole and browbeat workers into following you, in a way that is dripping with resentment towards those workers.
This is easier for me because I don't give a shit about socialism or communism or buying into a brand-ideology. If the communist parties can't do shit for me and have no real idea what the fuck they're here to do, why should I want to join them or support them in any way? Very few if any people are swayed by political marketing, because there is no competing with the ruling ideology and how aggressively it has been pushed. All the things that are worth fighting for still are related to this looming eugenics question that no one seems to give a shit about.
But yeah, this IS socialism, and it does suck. If you want something that doesn't suck, don't do the same shit progressives have been pushing for the past century. But you can't, because you can't question eugenics.
The "rigid definition of socialism" didn't exist in the 19th century. Socialism around the time Marx joined the fray was a mishmash of everything from social conservatives to technocrats to a variant of the Jacobins. The doctrinaire definition of socialism is the fruit of positivism and the "religion of science" that afflicted much of philosophy in the 19th century, which attracted a certain sort of person. In the late 19th century, you had variants of socialism that were ominous like the Fabians, and to most normal people, that WAS socialism - a decidedly anti-worker socialism.
The obsession with doctrinaire Marxism is a peculiar positivist view that Marx himself reviled. It sort of got a new lease on life with Lenin, who was ruthless about enforcing the party line just to keep his organization together; but the revolution in Russia succeeded not because they consulted the holy text from the prophet Lenin, but because Lenin was a fairly capable politician and there were enough pragmatic Russians who were determined through sheer force of will to not be dominated by foreigners. Communism in Russia, and in China today, gets its credibility because it offers the only serious front of opposition to the imperial countries, rather than someone buying Communism in the supermarket.
>>3105>Haz […] is completely wrong about Marxist value theory
What does Haz say about value theory and why is it wrong?>Marx did not construct economic models
What do you mean by this? In what way is the entire investigation of political economy not a description of capitalism and hence a model?
Private wealth and ownership does not need to be ownership of capital in the conventional sense. The loci of power in America are not necessarily the richest men on a top ten list*, because their wealth and power were made diffuse by a clever oligarchic arrangement, one that no one else in the world really figured out until Americans did it and imposed it on their allies.
*it should be noted though that the wealth of old money foundations, trusts, networks, and so on is still far more than the "official" richest billionaires list. However, the way in which this property is dispensed changed considerably. The reality is that oligarchic families own more of the world than they've ever owned in the past, and the "wealth" people pretend they own doesn't mean much at all. A lot more ordinary people are deep in debt, and only through mountains of private debt and state charity is the present arrangement even kept half-alive.
My takeaway from Haz is that he's more about philosophy than presenting an economist view, and he's basically chiding leftypol for being economists (among a million other things). That's why people are so triggered over "we're already living in socialism", because many people here have bought into the "socialism" brand and can't seem to get that socialism could turn out to be a bad thing.>>3107
He means nothing. Of course Capital is presenting a model with a number of unique takes that weren't found in earlier political economy. The hilarious thing about those who gripe about the neoclassical economists is that Marx was getting the ball rolling on questioning the law of value, in line with growing criticisms of the whole field of political economy that were not unique to Marx. A lot of Volume I is Marx laying out the implications of the law of value, and not just "the law of value is bad because it's mean". A lot of it could even be taken as a reducto ad absurdum on the LTV; that if labor were the source of value in the economy and the free trade system was built around that premise, then it would produce an unstable world market with regular collapses, and because of that the money that commands labor is suspect from the outset.
To really get this, you need to understand what the neoclassical school was attempting to do with economics, and why it was so necessary to get on the utilitarianism train that was in vogue with liberals. That's what a lot here don't get, that they thought the neoclassical school was disavowing labor because they were afraid of acknowledging labor and created a lie. The reality is that the neoclassical school was ready to move on and crush the workers, could do so, and thus it could be declared that labor was effectively worthless, because where else were the workers going to go?
>>3109>My takeaway from Haz is that he's more about philosophy than presenting an economist view, and he's basically chiding leftypol for being economists
Then into the trash it goes, all infrared fags get out
Haz doesn’t know about collective action lmaoooo
Does anyone have a gif of the infrared logo moving?
Economism without philosophy is fucking useless. Haz is cringe on his "this isn't philosophy, this is post-philosophy". No. It is philosophy and it is fucking crucial.
The retards here DON'T understand marx, and are exactly what Marx was bitching about in his time about so called marxists. Marx's economics are basically bourgeois economics if you divorce it from the underlying philosophy, that of dialectical materialism in it's non-vulgar, non-cockshottist view. And yes you fucking need Hegel to understand it, and no it's not enough. You have to actually live it, not even memeing. Which is kind of what Infrared is saying.
I have a small issue with Haz on this, he's right on a ton of points (although he explains them in the most roundabout way possible), but by his own admission, marxism-leninism can only emerge from "within" the society, it cannot be imposed upon it, and infrared wants to communicate this fact from a top-down fashion, because they believe politics is downstream from online stuff. It's true to a degree, especially right now during covid. They are setting some things in motion which are entirely respectable if you actually understand what they are saying, which eugenics-kun is entirely counter from and also the "pure" economists. They've already shaken up some of the people here and exposed them for what they are (bourgeois marxist economists), but they are missing the other part, the part on educating in a clear and precise way why that is.
Basically, you're a liberal marxist and you can't see it because your head is stuck too far up your ass.
Anglos are so mad they're spamming the thread now. You love to see it.
Whatever. Just don't call yourself a marxist if you repeat the positivist drivel that goes for marxism nowadays.
Why are you bringing up Jews like this?
""Anglo"" has nothing to do with race, but with the origin of positivist and analytical tradition, plus the enormous popularization of scientism and philosophical poverty.
Think Bertrand Russel, Noam Chomsky, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, etc.
It's actually not exclusively an anglo phenomenon which makes it kind of retarded to call it anglo, but I guess it makes some historic sense.
I just want you hazfuckers out of this previously good website
Can you explain how Jordan Peterson is closer to analytic philosophy than Dugnist fart huffing? The man is a fucking Jungian ffs.
I haven't read Dugin, sorry.
Infrared is the best that has happened to leftypol in a long time. It was getting so stale and boring here.
Because this shit sounds incredibly fucked up.>>3119>AHHHHHHHH IF YOU DON'T LITERALLY REJECT MOST OF MARXIST ECONOMICS THEN YOU'RE, UHHH, JORDAN PETERSON???
is this the normal lenin-hat because this is actually embarrassing?
He can't because like all hazbros he has no understanding of philosophy beyond repeating the anglo meme over and over like it makes them right and also somehow able to subsume any legitimate criticize, literally "you're not being dialectical comrade"
I'm 90% sure it's where Haz got the Anglo meme, as Dugin produces a dichotomy in his worldview as a clash of civilizations between Analytic, Mercantile, Atheist, Individualist, Coastal Anglos versus Grounded, Continental, Spiritual, Collectivist Eurasians.
To be fair to this Haz guy you can of course synthesize philosophers so I don't think it's that big of a deal but the similarities in worldviews are palpable and he uses the same general concept, even if by mistake.
That's a fucked up strawman holy shit bro.
>>3104>Since when is communism about cajoling people into the totes awesome workers' republic? You're assigning the word "socialism" positive connotations it doesn't have, and those positive connotations come about from the same failed campaign Haz complains about with Anglo Marxists - an attempt to cajole and browbeat workers into following you, in a way that is dripping with resentment towards those workers.
I'm not cajoling or browbeating, I'm stating the fucking fact that when you tell people that we currently live in socialism without them having all of this ideological background that Haz tries to put forward, you are absolutely going to lose them in terms of offering a suitable solution. This isn't about "resentment", this isn't even about what I personally "want", it's about the adoption of a system which supercedes capitalism out of necessity. We can either do so, or fall into mutual ruin. >This is easier for me because I don't give a shit about socialism or communism or buying into a brand-ideology. If the communist parties can't do shit for me and have no real idea what the fuck they're here to do, why should I want to join them or support them in any way? Very few if any people are swayed by political marketing, because there is no competing with the ruling ideology and how aggressively it has been pushed. All the things that are worth fighting for still are related to this looming eugenics question that no one seems to give a shit about.
Eugene, for once, shut the fuck about eugenics. You can't insert your rhetoric about it into every single discussion or topic. If you're against political marketing, you would be against what Haz is doing, beucase it's all political marketing. And you shouldn't be a socialist because "muh FALC lol", you should be a socialist because it is the only consequential position one can adopt. Anything else is the acceptance of ruin and repeat. >But yeah, this IS socialism, and it does suck. If you want something that doesn't suck, don't do the same shit progressives have been pushing for the past century. But you can't, because you can't question eugenics.
How is this socialism at all? Which "progressives" of the last century? The last century of the 20th century, I which the most progressive force operating was the USSR.
Why would you pack it up? The working class still needs to seize power to use this socialism for the people.
Why? We already live in socialism bro, are you telling me it's not REAL socialism?
bruh. literally what the fuck are you talking about.>>3126
What part of it is cringe? There are many lenin hat posters. >>3127>You must first read every book in existence before you're allowed to listen to infrared
Is this what you really think? I really hope you don't cause that is a very retarded position to hold. >>3128>worldview as a clash of civilizations between …
sounds esoteric and dumb af.
The anglo shit I kind of get it "instinctually" because locally, people around me are prone to superstition. Those that aren't superstitious, replace the superstition with "muh science" which is some variant of hard-core positivism or scientism. In marxists circles, that manifests as hard-core positivist marxism (marxism-leninism as a hard science with almost divine qualities). Here it manifests as pure economism ("waste no time on hegel!").
Anti-"postmodernists" (depends what postmodernists are defined as) usually fall in this camp. >>3132>>3133
Could you explain what Haz means by "we live in socialism"?
There's no "real" socialism, there's just the socialism(s) of the world.>Why?
Because<The working class still needs to seize power to use this socialism for the people.
>>3113>The retards here DON'T understand marx, and are exactly what Marx was bitching about in his time about so called marxists. Marx's economics are basically bourgeois economics if you divorce it from the underlying philosophy, that of dialectical materialism in it's non-vulgar, non-cockshottist view. And yes you fucking need Hegel to understand it, and no it's not enough. You have to actually live it, not even memeing. Which is kind of what Infrared is saying.
What is this A.W.-tier faggotry? To begin with, dialectical materialism is a far later development, with historical materialism being what was actually utilized by Marx and Engels. If you read Hegel, you also know that what Marx uses is nothing like Hegels dialectics. Marx's use of Hegel's dialectics isn't to use to wholesale, but rather to "break it", to use it as a way of modeling general historical trends and the emergence of new forms of production. It is not a practice in actual dialectics.
Capitalism isn't a "system", it's a situation. Based Red Kahina described the situation re: covid world quite well.
Anyway, in Marx's lifetime, he and Engels wrote about the bourgeois socialists, and you have to remember that in Marx's time, the bourgeois socialists were the majority BY FAR. Marx and Engels were specifically warning their readers about the bourgeois socialists, and the bourgeois program was socialist.
It's always funny that people talk about "superceding capitalism" when they can't even describe what replaces it beyond "it's when the workers (which workers?) own the means of production". Socialism would be one of many possible new situations, with its own characteristics and inherent contradictions, and it does not necessarily mean an improvement for the better. Like it or not, we live in an environment that is quite removed from the commodity-form at the base level. It's just that we have this thinking that we live in a marketized "free" society that tells us capitalism is in force, and that's why we can't have nice things. The reality we live in is that we are ruled by people who are very aware of what they are doing and who have set out to win the war against their subjects, and they've been winning pretty hard for the past century.
And I will never shut up about eugenics, because you cannot understand the whole 20th century without understanding the eugenics program and what it means, and that eugenics never stopped for a moment. You can't draw a line from 19th century science to the postwar era without speaking of the eugenics movement, which at a time was so hegemonic that no one could go against it, that eugenics was a force in the Soviet Union (and hence why it became so critical for them to slander Lysenko and make him a Russian Mengele somehow).
As for Haz's marketing, it's pretty clear he's mostly trying to get a left audience that is already tuned in communism and has some familiarity with it, and wants to dig deeper into the theory - i.e. what political theorists generally do. This might be a surprise to you, but the vast majority of people are not as stupid as you seem to think. It's not that this stuff is completely over their head and they're too feeble to get it. If normies do have an opinion on communism, they usually wind up hating the few communists they might have met - because what they see are "Marxoids" who teach this absurd parody of anything Marxism-Leninism was doing. I know I couldn't stand socialists for a while because I associated them with exactly that, when I was pretty normie politically and didn't spend much time reading the theory.
Haz is an anti union propagandist. A strike breaker. Pinkerton Scum.
>>3134>Could you explain what Haz means by "we live in socialism"?
This guy explained it. >>3095
Then there's this videohttps://youtu.be/pbu-AAlqDJg?t=571
Timestamped is Ezra explaining it, then Haz, but the whole video is good.
Spoiler: it isn’t, it’s just a pseud circle jerk and /leftypol/ comes at the end with tissues to clean up
Alright sage, you're just embarrassing yourself now.
Strikes are direct action lmao literally nobody has given any kind of argument to the contrary
Okay whatever. I disagree with them on 500 points, and I'm still capable of not sperging out and actually listen to what they have to say.
So you admit that strikes are direct action
No m8 its consumer adovcacybrocialismBrocialism
I don't care about your autistic definitions.
Enough you >>3146
Hahaha the absolute cope. You know I’m right. You literally just can’t say it. Go on, it’s not hard, just type the words
You're incapable of seeing anything in any other lens than beside your super narrow experience with unions. Your myopia is honestly amazing. If you can't travel, perhaps read.
>doesn’t think we will need gulags
>thinks we already live in socialism (big if true , also america has the biggest gulag system ever created)
>no trade union consciousness
Yup, we got ourselves a librul boys
I have more experience with unions than probably 100% of this board. Now shhh with your ad homs and say the simple words > strikes are direct action
You can do it it’s easy
No I don't think you're right. I don't think "direct action" applies to the scale of strikes necessary for change in modern society. I agree with Haz, these modern strikes are institutionalized.
Now continue seething and spamming the thread.
So it’s institutionally lead direct action. Collective action has it is referred to
Haha you admit it then
Ok and? Why are you incapable of reading basic shit. Maybe I could write it several times in different ways.
You are incapable of seeing things from other perspectives outside your narrow union experience.
Sage is not able to visualize solutions to situations that don't conform to unionizing.
The idiot thinks that unionizing is the only viable praxis for leftism, and can't see past his city borders.
(You) cannot comprehend situations that fall outside the limits of your experience.
It was given the name "dialecical materialism" afterwards, but the ontolgical and epistemological philosophical system as developed from Hegel in the hands of Marx was very much topical and not only relevant in the sphere of "historical materialism". Historical materialism doesn't exist in a vacuum. >Marx's use of Hegel's dialectics isn't to use to wholesale
Assuming you meant that marx thought it could only be used for historical materialism, you are wrong. He even explicitly mentions how he played with it in the first chapter of Capital, not in the context of historical materialism but in the development of the commodity form.> but rather to "break it", to use it as a way of modeling general historical trends and the emergence of new forms of production.
Wrong again. It is a coherent world view that was "mystified in the hands of Hegel". Marx doesn't "break it" whatever that may mean. Modern Hegelian scholars even maintain that Marx's dialectical method is not that distinct from Hegel's.
Just the words friend : strikes are direct action.
>I am incapable of seeing things outside your narrow union perspective >you think unionising is the only praxis
Except I regularly advocate for co-ops, community survival programs etc as a way to build dual power, both of which by the way are direct action. I also do advocate internet propoganda, it is me who is constantly saying we should organise this board for that purpose. Additionally, I am actually involved and have been involved in community survival programs etc, and am actually involved in producing leftist media. I just don’t tell people not to do direct action.
Actually, you are incapable of seeing anything from outside your internet brain you tuber fart hotbox perspective. You will go so far to rim be asshole of some 500 subscriber streamer that you reject basic communist principles just so you don’t have to look silly “stanning” him like the little zoomer consoomer you are
You suck at insults.
Hahaha say the words
What words? Your shit is myopic as fuck. I don't give a fuck what you "advocate" lol. If you can't travel, read.
>>3137>Capitalism isn't a "system", it's a situation. Based Red Kahina described the situation re: covid world quite well.
What a stupid statement. This is like something you might unironcially read in a postmodernist critique of Marxism, but somebody then decided that Marx actually argued in such terms. Capitalism is a system, to try and have us twist our heads around till our necks are broken so we can instead say "Actually, it's a situation because all economies exist only in terms of a certain contextual situation" sounds like an attempt to sound smarter then drone actually is. >Anyway, in Marx's lifetime, he and Engels wrote about the bourgeois socialists, and you have to remember that in Marx's time, the bourgeois socialists were the majority BY FAR. Marx and Engels were specifically warning their readers about the bourgeois socialists, and the bourgeois program was socialist.
I think you are misrepresenting what "bourgeoisie socialism" means here, and what Marx's critiques in terms of this are. Bourgeoisie socialism is not literally socialism or a new state of things, it is a delusion in terms of what capitalism as a system entials and how it's mechanisms operate. The accusation of "bourgeoisie socialism" was one levied mostly at individuals such as Proudhon, whom Marx saw as one of many who wished to simply make the worker into a bourgeoisie, and that when all were bourgeoisie, one could simply participate and enjoy in all that capitalism offers with none of it's contradictions or the flare of up of revolutionary sentiment. For individuals such as Proudhon, all people could simply share as being collective bourgeoisie in their own cooperatively held MoP, accumulating together with no internal issues arising. This "bourgeoisie socialism" as Marx puts it, is nothing more then a false march to a New Jerusalem, a fantasy given to the workers that placates their once negative disposition towards the bourgeoisie, and makes them believe that a bourgeoisie class is not inherently a faulty concept. The other "Bourgeoisie Socialism" Marx discusses isn't socialism at all as well, but rather bourgeoise individuals offering up reforms in the context of the capitalist system in what is nothing more then a justification for both the system and their continued existence, an argument for their "necessity". As he puts it:<Free trade: for the benefit of the working class. Protective duties: for the benefit of the working class. Prison Reform: for the benefit of the working class. This is the last word and the only seriously meant word of bourgeois socialism.<It is summed up in the phrase: the bourgeois is a bourgeois — for the benefit of the working class. >It's always funny that people talk about "superceding capitalism" when they can't even describe what replaces it beyond "it's when the workers (which workers?) own the means of production". Socialism would be one of many possible new situations, with its own characteristics and inherent contradictions, and it does not necessarily mean an improvement for the better. Like it or not, we live in an environment that is quite removed from the commodity-form at the base level. It's just that we have this thinking that we live in a marketized "free" society that tells us capitalism is in force, and that's why we can't have nice things. The reality we live in is that we are ruled by people who are very aware of what they are doing and who have set out to win the war against their subjects, and they've been winning pretty hard for the past century
Bullshit. I have literally never described socialism primarily in terms of workers owning the means of production whenever I discuss this with you, I have always put it in terms of it's mechanisms, or rather it's superceding of the mechanisms which define capitalist production. To move past the use of circuits of capital and commodity production, and engage instead in social production for use. It's "improvement" is that of us avoiding the alternative, which is the inevitable ruin of the classes, or a regression in production to what will wholly result in an eventual return to our current state over time. Socialism is something based in necessity, not a fantastical want of it. You state we are removed from the "commodity form", but this has zero basis outside of personal emotional appeal. Commodity production exists and is as integral to capitalism as it has ever been. >And I will never shut up about eugenics, because you cannot understand the whole 20th century without understanding the eugenics program and what it means, and that eugenics never stopped for a moment. You can't draw a line from 19th century science to the postwar era without speaking of the eugenics movement, which at a time was so hegemonic that no one could go against it, that eugenics was a force in the Soviet Union (and hence why it became so critical for them to slander Lysenko and make him a Russian Mengele somehow).
Both eugenicists and Lysenko were idiots, Lysenko was just a useful one. I'm telling you to shut up because this is always your fallback when you need to shift the dicussion from something you clearly do not understand to a position you feel you have knowledge in, and it's always an attempt to further its propagation as opposed to making a concrete argument backing your previous statements or staying on topic. You are the definition of someone who talks a lot, but understands very little. >As for Haz's marketing, it's pretty clear he's mostly trying to get a left audience that is already tuned in communism and has some familiarity with it, and wants to dig deeper into the theory - i.e. what political theorists generally do. This might be a surprise to you, but the vast majority of people are not as stupid as you seem to think. It's not that this stuff is completely over their head and they're too feeble to get it.
I never assumed people were stupid, but I do know how most will respond to being said such a statement, and that's because I am not terminally online. What a fucking dishonest attempt to throw to the side what I stated. Haz has also stated that his work is based on trying to make Marxist Leninism a mainstream movement again, something which workers are more open and accepting to. Saying a bunch of positions which require one to understand Deleuze and Heideigger first is not how this is done, and this isn't based on a view derived from elitism, but one from being a fucking working person. If you start your platform off of "we already live in socialism", you will not be seeing the results you desire. >If normies do have an opinion on communism, they usually wind up hating the few communists they might have met - because what they see are "Marxoids" who teach this absurd parody of anything Marxism-Leninism was doing. I know I couldn't stand socialists for a while because I associated them with exactly that, when I was pretty normie politically and didn't spend much time reading the theory
Yeah, and used to be immersed in the far-right and rather extreme pro-catholic apologism. Then I actually had people push aside my misconceptions on Marx by being blunt with me in terms of what I was incorrect on, and led me to investigate Marx further. That's part of why I know that "Marxoids", Haz, and you are all derived from the same breed, the group of people who care nothing of actual Marxism, but instead spend their days trying to engage in the laughable integration of their clearly emotionally baked views into Marxism, with varying degrees of failure, while trying to justify it with the slimest of defenses. It's petty fucking opportunism. I despise all of you equally, from CTH to Infrared, and I hope one day Marxism can actually return to actual serious analysis then the farce you all shovel out.
when did this become a namefag-tripfag thread
>>3156>It was given the name "dialecical materialism" afterwards, but the ontolgical and epistemological philosophical system as developed from Hegel in the hands of Marx was very much topical and not only relevant in the sphere of "historical materialism". Historical materialism doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Dialectical materialism a statement on how reality functions, it is way more far reaching then what historical materialism entials, which simply is a materialist view of observable historical trends. Marx's use of dialectics lacks Hegel's foundation for its use, and thus it lacks anything reminiscent of dialectics proper. >Assuming you meant that marx thought it could only be used for historical materialism, you are wrong. He even explicitly mentions how he played with it in the first chapter of Capital, not in the context of historical materialism but in the development of the commodity form.
But not as dialectics proper. His use of dialectics is simply to model what is already observable and can be shown to occur, but in a way divorced completely from Hegel's "logic". >Wrong again. It is a coherent world view that was "mystified in the hands of Hegel". Marx doesn't "break it" whatever that may mean. Modern Hegelian scholars even maintain that Marx's dialectical method is not that distinct from Hegel's.
No, modern Hegalian scholars do not. In fact, we had more then enough Hegalian autists on old leftypol that made this very clear. Marx uses a very specific part of Hegels dialectics, that being the three value, and this is something Hegel himself was critical of. In fact, what could could be seen as the three value involved a more "harmonious" integration as opposed to what Marx uses.
*Yeah, and I used to be immersed in the far-right and rather extreme pro-catholic apologism.
The words: strikes are direct action. I have travelled and I do read. Now say the words.
>>3163>Dialectical materialism a statement on how reality functions,
Not at all.>which simply is a materialist view of observable historical trends
Also not true. Historical materialism deals with how thought develops as well. Not "trends".>Marx's use of dialectics lacks Hegel's foundation for its use, and thus it lacks anything reminiscent of dialectics proper.
Marx, Engels, and Lenin all think you're wrong, but maybe you're on to something. Who knows.>But not as dialectics proper.
What does this mean?>Marx uses a very specific part of Hegels dialectics, that being the three value, and this is something Hegel himself was critical of. In fact, what could could be seen as the three value involved a more "harmonious" integration as opposed to what Marx uses.
What is "the three value"?
>>3162>he says, while sucking the asshole of a streamer
Why do you think tagging all my posts is an argument you humongous retard
If you like streamers you can’t complain about trips and names.
As for the post level, the thing about direct action is a fundamental and important point I will not let go. Once it had been established however I will be happy to leave this para social nightmare.
Also, why isn’t Haz thread in the internet general? Is it cos mods personally like his stuff? Kek. Classic
Because it has filled two entire threads. Every time they streamed IG was flooded.
>>3171>*Posh british voice* I'm so over this infrared para-social business. Why do mods seem to fancy this haz individual? How ludicrous! A true classic! Me, responsible for 10% of posts in this thread? My dear anon, you cannot complain about individuals with names, we are above criticism.
Thanks sage. It's all so clear now.
Yes, I think most people now understand where they're coming from but I would regard this as a hypothesis. The whole idea of decentralization and deterritorialization of capital in the 21st century needs to be proven. I'm extremely sceptical of whether that's truly happening. Especially because they base this theory on people like Deleuze and Baudrillard, who could be the most big-brained philosophers ever, but have a reputation of being not rigid in terms of scientific evidence. Especially late Baudrillard. Is demanding evidence and exemplification inherently Anglo? Let's not be ridiculous.
There is another thing that I disagree with, simply from a PR perspective. No matter how solid your theory is, claiming that we already live in socialism is terrible propaganda.
Especially since you still more or less agree with classical definitions of socialism or socialistic demands. It seems to me that they only seem to want to challenge dogmatists, but then at the same time you can't praise Jimmy Dore as some sort of authentic dasein
if you yourself remain trapped in Anglo university discourse, even as an antithesis. I sincerely hope that Infrared understands this and becomes more programmatic and succinct ("What is Infrared" is a fucking 2h video) as they grow and reach out to more people and not just a bunch of autists on /leftypol/. And hopefully drop that slogan of "we already live in socialism".
>>3100>Haz mentioned he doesn't think much of Cockshott, I doubt he's even read him.
History repeating, first as Muke, now as Haz.>>3102>The mechanisms of capitalism, and thus the contradictions within it that push us towards socialism or ruin, are fundamentally the same as they were in Marx's time. Yes, you can place other developments such as the dominance of finance capital on top of such mechanisms, but the mechanisms themselves remain unchanged. As stated, Socialism is defined relative to these, and thus a proper definition of socialism should encounter no issue. There should be no "rot" so to speak.
This.>It's not effective at all. Not only is the average person not going to be able to understand the additional ideological background which has been placed in addition to Marx, but hearing the words "we already live in socialism" when they are most likely opposed to what they currently live in is not going to win you support, and thinking otherwise is nothing else but terminally online stupidity. Saying to a worker who feels trapped within the grind of his job, his very life taken every day from him, that he "already lives in socialism" will not win them to your side…
And this. And isn't all of this obvious?>>3119
The origin of positivism is France and Peterson is too deep into Jungian BS to be anglo. The term has become useless through usage by thoughtless idiots like Haz who use it when they have no argument, which is practically always.>>3174>The whole idea of decentralization and deterritorialization of capital in the 21st century needs to be proven.
That proof won't happen since this "theory" is absurd.
>>3175>History repeating, first as Muke, now as Haz.
You're a real slimey fuck for comparing No-Book Muke to Haz or anyone from Infrared.
>>3168>Not at all.
It's literally a larger view on the nature of matter itself. I insist you read Lenin or Stalin on this. >Also not true. Historical materialism deals with how thought develops as well. Not "trends".
You are confusing terms here. Materialism by itself already holds the primacy of the material world as opposed to consciousness being what determines reality. Historical materialism deals with how our society develops from our relations of production, what general main modes of production can be observed, and if a tendency in terms of how human society develops and transitions can be seen, and why. This is largely done by mapping out observable historical trends. >Marx, Engels, and Lenin all think you're wrong, but maybe you're on to something. Who knows.
Possibly Lenin might take some issue with my statement, but not Marx and Engels. Hegel was exceedingly less important to Marx, being very aware in his particular use of dialectics (which largely don't even come from Hegel himself), and this is very clear later on. Engels draws some larger conclusions with some allusion to dialectics, but those conclusions are still based on a more "Marxian" dialectic then Hegel's. >What does this mean?
It means that what Marx uses is not only a specific utilization of a specific part of Hegels "dialectics", but something which is used to demonstrate developments as you would a model, as opposed to some dialectic of existence. >What is "the three value"?
"Traditional" view of thesis-antithesis-synthesis. Hegel actually never used this, he at best used "abstract-negative-concrete" in his works, and was very different from t-a-s.
Btw, I'll be busy for a good portion of the day, so any response may take a while to get to. Sorry.
>>3102>It's not effective at all. Not only is the average person not going to be able to understand the additional ideological background which has been placed in addition to Marx, but hearing the words "we already live in socialism" when they are most likely opposed to what they currently live in is not going to win you support, and thinking otherwise is nothing else but terminally online stupidity. Saying to a worker who feels trapped within the grind of his job, his very life taken every day from him, that he "already lives in socialism" will not win them to your side, because as I stated earlier, they don't won't understand any of the convoluted ideological background to that statement. There first mental response is probably going to be "This is socialism? Who, this sucks."
Good insight. It's an obvious contradiction to promote popularizers like Jimmy Dore or Caleb Maupin, but then on the other hand deliberately obfuscate/provoke only to reach a certain … academic audience. Constantly attacking academia and positivist rot is somewhat ironic when literally all of Infrared is very obviously made up of university students or alumni.
>>3173>posts with a trip >ha I don’t believe in that made up shit, trips are narcissistic >starts a Youtube stream where he talks for 6 hours about how cool he is >ommg sooo true
Kek, say the words : strikes are direct action
you ad homing little zoomaconsooma I’m surprised you haven’t pass out from inhaling nothing but farts for a week
Haz is a no book fuck just like Xixezy
Also pretty ironic Haz puts on a posh voice when he’s a law student with no job
I think it's obvious that he did read about what he's talking about. It's pretty easy to be revealed as a pseud if you haven't read what you are talking about (see Muke). The problem is he probably read too much French stuff, never read too much French stuff, that stuff can really end up twisting your synapses.
I mean, is anybody really gonna tell me that reading all those French motherfuckers plus Nick Land plus Dugin is a healthy cocktail?!
Well exactly, it’s just le philosophy and he probably didn’t actually read the books just watched some YouTube or some shit. They have only interpreted the world, the point is to change it, with direct action
This idea that if you read the wrong books you get the wrong mental stats is so retarded. Read it, try to understand it, use what you can and move on.
It is true read when you want, but when you are also a retard you should first stick to the most important stuff, I.e the history of the workers movement and its methods direct action
How hard is it for you to accept that there is something that could be even worse than capitalism that could - and did - form? If you were worried about ruin of the contending classes, it's too late for that. Now the petty bourgeoisie are getting the shaft.
>Commodity production exists and is as integral to capitalism as it has ever been.
(a) So the problem is that we exchanged monetized objects, and if we just had something like money but not really money we'd resolve the problem? That's stupid and goofy thinking. There are definite historical reasons why money arose (and not one of them was that "money is inevitable" or "money is natural", because we can make executive decisions without monetary units as such and have to do so all the time). (b) There was commodity production long before capitalism. The reasons for the extreme fetishization of commodities are more recent than the free trade system, and have everything to do with growing EUGENISM YOU DOLT.
(c) The commodity form doesn't really exist the way it did in the 19th century "acquisition" phase of the free trade system. It's very attractive to believe it still exists if you buy into the petty-managerial or petty-bourgeois myths, but what is the financial reality in which we live? It's derivatives, outrageous levels of speculation and a fictitious economy in the stratosphere, where oligarchs own nearly everything worth owning and rent extraction is stronger than ever. Actually producing a good or service is a secondary concern to those who own and manage the world's wealth, and as I said, the loci of power and wealth in America and the world are basically rich forever regardless of circumstances - they arrange their society in such a way that if the rich ever face risk, they can print infinite money and make the plebs suffer with austerity. Commodities still exist, but they are not the driving force since the 20th century began. The purpose of our society isn't to make shit, but for the owning class to exercise its power in the way it deems fit. For a period in the 19th century, when oligarchs were on the rise and the new wealth of oil men and technocrats could compete with what was then old money, capitalism worked sort of like Marx's description. In the 20th century, those oligarchs became the old money, and merged seamlessly with what is left of the old aristocracy. In the 21st century, old money behaves literally like the nobility of feudal times, complete with endowing vassal with noble privileges (which is what a university degree basically is, among many other things - including the revival of selling noble titles as a fad for a while).
Your drivel is so out of touch with reality, and out of touch with where communism is going. It's going away from this New Left, synthetic left structure that was erected during the 20th century, and you just can't handle it. You can't deprogram yourself. I know the feeling, it takes work to unfuck the vast majority of Anglo-Marxism's history. It's a lot easier for me because I never was invested in Marxism, never got into the fad of calling myself a Marxist or identifying with the socialist brand. But it was still difficult to overcome the cancer of what passes for the left the capitalist world.
Where I'm at right now is seeing more and more communists turn on the ecologists. I never thought the day would come, but the current actions of the oligarchs have made it impossible to pretend that ecology is anything but the old eugenics project coming back yet again.
You're not getting where I come from. I personally don't give a fuck what Marx said, or who is the most authentic Marxist. I give Marx credit, because I believe Marx was a lot smarter than you and most of the fools calling themselves the true Marxists. I can understand not just what Marx wrote, but the context in which he was writing - and you have to remember that all his life, Marx remained distant from mainstream socialism, and the Marxists were never the most powerful "socialist" faction until 1917. You also have to understand that Marx was not unique, and was a product of the new philosophical thinking that prevailed in Europe and especially in Krautland. Talking to you, it's like you treat the works as a holy bible, instead of the reality that Marx was an angry asshole and never really finish Capital or was able to explain what the hell he just wrote. I can't blame Marx too much - he can't make the horse drink water and the revolutionary intelligentsia seemed determined to self-sabotage - but in all likelihood Marx just got it wrong and, as many early Marxists did, fatally misread what was happening and would continue to happen in 1870-1920, and then they completely botched it when fascism rose. You have today so many people who don't GET what fascism was - that fascism really was the future of humanity, just arrived early, and that fascism was what "socialism" wound up becoming.
There are tons of people who read one book and then change their ideology accordingly to that book. I've seen it with all those ideology shoppers.
Aren't you a Maoist sage? Why do you keep defending a concept largely used by anarkiddies and autonomists, you don't need to.
I know you're saying, "but what about the USSR? Were they not the TRUE socialists?" You'd think so, and Moscow really, desperately tried to sell that where it could. At the end of the day, though, you have to ask how it was so easy to turn intelligentsia away from the Soviet Union, and you can't say forever that it was a nasty conspiracy of the CIA. That doesn't explain the rapidity of intellectuals showing their true colors, people who knew full well that the Cold War was based on a pack of lies. Nor can you keep blaming the workers forever, or Earl Browder. The reality is that, even though they repudiate socialism in any historically existing form, the fascist narrative and its faux-revolutionary character wasn't a flash in the pan. It maintained a base in America and the western powers. If you talked about a program of reform, you could be slandered as a "fascist" for suggesting policies like nationalization or collectivization or public virtue. Yet, this let the true fascists monopolize "popular" politics, and that was ruthlessly abused once it had fomented long enough, starting with the neoliberal turn (and neoliberalism really is just fascism with computers). By the 1980s, all discussion was entirely on the terms of fascism - or more accurately, on the terms of the eugenics project, which Hitlerism was created to facilitate. The Soviet Union was founded on a genuine revolution, and there were still a few curmudgeons who believed in the cause of human liberation and defeating class society. But the Russians never really did have an answer to fascism, and they had to cave to that most hated of beasts in the 1980s - ecologism. Gorbachev, for what it was worth, pushed ecologism strongly compared to other Soviet leaders, and… well, look at what happened. By the 1990s, all the currents of actions were in favor of the eugenics movement, and the old eugenics foundations - never really died - made ominous moves and announced more of their agenda, now that the opposition of the USSR was moot. You might say that the Russians simply lost the war, and it's true that a whole lot of them were trying to fight, even as their society was rotting from within. But they did lose, and it was remarkably easy for rot to be exploited in the new eugenist order. It worked in Russia, and it worked especially when in the social experiments America began in the 1960s, that stepped up in the 1990s.
So the USSR can claim to be the inheritors of communism, whatever that was supposed to be - but communism was alone in the world, and it was in a losing battle. There never really was a sense of what the USSR would be doing - the gist of it at the best of times was "do it like in America, but without a bunch of rich parasitic assholes", and at the worst of times it bought into the same kinds of social experiments the Americans were doing. The rest of the world turned to "true socialism", or they were just aligning with the USSR because America was fucking with their politics. The theory of socialism had rotted away, and what was left was this garish construction of the nasty, miserablist elements of the left. For so many people, that IS socialism, and rightoids are not wrong in calling it such. The new fascist movement repudiates any solidaristic politics, except those that are offered by the fascists directly. It's the thinking behind the stupidpol types who dress up their Hitlerism with Marxist aesthetics. (Do they even bother pretending they're Marxists anymore?) No one is actually convinced that they're defending capitalism (usually when someone claims to be defending capitalism, they're morbidly coping with a world that is stacked against them and believing that it's about the money instead of the people). All defenses of capitalism are really defenses of Social Darwinism, explicitly and unapologetically. The cancerous synthetic left types, of course, cave to this platform, because they're afraid to say the name - EUGENICS
- and if they did, they can only muster an argument that eugenics was mean and bad. But eugenics was at the core of everything, and the Social Darwinist dogma that prevailed would be meaningless without a eugenist, genetic, biological base that could become self-perpetuating. The "knowledge economy" libs fetishized for a while is a fallacy, because information and data do not operate as they believe.
>>3189>>3189>Maoists don’t believe in strikes
You really are flailing around blindly
The disagreement wasn't about strikes as such but to view them as "direct action", what a dishonest piece of shit you are after all.
And this gets to the crux of the problem… "what is socialism?" Can you describe a socialist mode of production in detail, what classes or organizations of people exist within it, its actually existing institutions? Can you explain the everyday exchanges that occur in the socialist mode of production, the way past economic orders were understood, and potential economic orders could be hypothesized? A persistent brain rot among socialists is that they have a hundred million different ideas of what socialism actually entails, and no one seems to have a straight record of it. The promise of something new, because capitalism is mean and bad and I don't like it, doesn't automatically serve as an answer. If you hate the free trade system, you are left with the unenviable task of figuring out how the hell else things could be done. The problem with this is that economics as a field, the very concept of money, is rooted in a simple need to appropriate objects, and you can't speak of "economic modes of production" without the miserable business of who is oppressing whom. Saying you're going to abolish capitalism, abolish the rich, abolish everything that makes you feel bad, just leaves you with a non-answer. It's performative, anarchist politics. There's no there there when you're talking about "socialism" or a "new socialist man". The fascist strain of "socialism", though, has a new system which is rapidly establishing, and unlike the communists, they revel in open injustice. Eugenism, for many reasons, is the most expedient option for the fascist political program, and it answers a persistent problem with measuring quality in the free trade system, that basic bitch utilitarianism could never do. The maximization of the utility function became very simple - humans were to be reared like cattle, which is how the liberals always really viewed the masses. Because utility was now conflated with genetics (which it should be remembered is purely dogmatic "science" from the outset, at best only being mildly useful for studying history and eugenism is hostile to historical truth), and because everything could be said to have a GENETIC nature, the utilization of people could be baked right into their blood, at least theologically. Everyone possesses their own body in practice, and everyone is imprisoned by it. It became ideologically necessary for minor distinctions to become the difference between life and death, and it became ideologically necessary to press forevermore on the mass of people so that their behavior could be manipulated. For the past 50 years, no major technological advance has moved forward unless it served the cause of eugenism in some way, which largely meant an almost psychopathic effort put into computing (and the wealth that has been poured into tech companies to make them remotely viable is substantial - not as much wealth as is put towards the greater eugenic project and enforcement of its ideology, but tech was basically funded by the plunder of the USSR).
That is because they only read one book, so they have no frame of reference.
He said direct action is direct autism I said strikes are direct action, because they are, disproving his point. That is also just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how retarded being anti direct action is, but I’m saving all that for later to focus on the key point. Call them ontological disruption if you want, comment on the effectiveness of mass participation in strikes (scale/ institutional nature of strikes) if you want. It doesn’t change the fact that strikes are direct action
at all, and not one non retarded answer has been given to this, just a lot of crying. Now, say the words :
I hope all you anti direct action fags weren’t ever sharing Gilet Jaunes memes and calling the rioters based btw. But we all know you were, pathetic. Literally world politics is a TV show to you, that was just some epic episode you consoomed, you have no idea really what was actually going on.
That is one reason for it, but they also lack the ability to critically review and summarize what they've read. They get seduced by a particular writer's assertiveness and authoritarian prose. Shit on academia all you want, but that's what you actually learn in university, to be critical of what you read. Or at least supposed to learn.
See Muke. Guy read "Capitalist Realism" then got onto the Zero Books (lol) left-com train and doubled down with the terrible value critique in "Writings on the Wall". He was enamoured by the prose and thought what they are saying is profound, so he took on that ideology. His further "career" then consisted of getting friends with Breadtubers, IdPol harpies and schizo-insane Twitter like Maria the Witch, this process then functioned as a gatekeeper to be exposed to anything put out by those evil "tankie NazBol red fascists", hence entrenching his infantile retardation.
Yeah dude maoists believe is sitting around and doing nothing. Name the difference between a western ML and a leftcom.
>>3195>He said direct action is direct autism I said strikes are direct action, because they are, disproving his point.
Haz was critiquing the category
of "direct action" not whatever forms of organization you - apparently randomly - subsume under it. Considering Haz talks a lot about Dasein, he probably loved the Gillet Jaunes. The fact that you can not separate this means you are either dishonest or have a room temperature IQ, because for some fucking weird reason you are dying on a hill as a Maoist to defend an anarchist category.
>>3198>at least we are doing something
You get that impression because MLs are usually where the workers are - unions, enterprise councils, etc. - while MLMs are usually not where the workers are.
See? I can also use dishonest polemics.
El em ay oh, the whole gilet jaunes thing was kicked off by people blocking roads which Haz specifically denounced kek.
>you have a narrow perspective
But then>you are a Maoist how can you defend direct action
Who has the narrow perspective again?
Also >he was critiquing the category, not the forms
Ahahahahsh do pretentious word salad shit with zero actual meaning is what you will lean this all on. Classic. You are dripping with euphoria my man it’s disgusting.
Also how on earth is saying strikes are direct action in any way “random”.
I know you refuse point blank to argue in good faith so you won’t do this, but define direct action, so we can have a reference point to work from and you can’t just squirm around with word games
>>3201>El em ay oh, the whole gilet jaunes thing was kicked off by people blocking roads which Haz specifically denounced kek.
Don't you get tired of lying?! Like, how does it feel to have to lie in every single post. >Ahahahahsh do pretentious word salad shit with zero actual meaning is what you will lean this all on. Classic. You are dripping with euphoria my man it’s disgusting.
Coming from the guy who wrote that strikes are "ontological disruptions". And by the way, yes in many cases roadblocks as anarkiddies employ them in Western countries are often bad, because it prevents people from getting to work, alienating the working class. It's similar with eco-activists who protest coal plants but make zero effort to connect with the union there to care about the jobs that will be lost if the plant shuts down. Maoists do this shit too all the time, appearing as an external force to the workers movement with infantile/ultra-left approaches that often abandon class perspectives. The Gillet Jaunes roadblock worker because it was coming from the striking workers themselves
, not instigated by some Maoist group or anarkiddies syndicate.
It's obsolete to debate whether strikes are direct action or not if you think the category is bullshit. Subsume strikes under direct action, I don't particularly care. What's more important than academic jargon is a look at real world politics, and how the term "direct action" is used, and the reality is that it is almost always used in ways to disrupt correct strategies. Just check out the list of groups that in a literal sense advocate for direct action:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_direct_action_groups
Those are almost all wrecker organizations!
Having no Job is basedbrocialismBrocialism
>>3203>Don't you get tired of lying?!
which part are you saying is a lie? That the Gilet Jaunes was kicked off with a bunch of people blocking roads or that Haz denounced blocking roads? Both of those things are true. >Coming from the guy who wrote that strikes are "ontological disruptions"
what the fuck that wasn't me that was Haz i was fucking quoting somebody quoting him holy fucking shit you are actually completely fucking retarded. >And by the way, yes in many cases roadblocks as anarkiddies employ them in Western countries are often bad, because it prevents people from getting to work, alienating the working class.
Cool yes sometimes direct action is done incorrectly. Doesn't stop strikes from being direct action. Stop answering the question you wish I had asked, and answer the one I did ask you melt. > Maoists do this shit too all the time, appearing as an external force to the workers movement with infantile/ultra-left approaches that often abandon class perspectives.
completely fucking irrelevant to the discussion. This isn't a conversation about various sectarian narratives you just pulled out your ass, its a conversation about whether or not strikes are direct action. >The Gillet Jaunes roadblock worker because it was coming from the striking workers themselves,
so… it was direct action done correctly, and therefore based, because direct action done correctly is based.
Holy fucking shit my man, you have literally in this post just beat yourself out entirely. Nowhere at all have I said "all direct action is good" or some shit or "direct action is never wrong" or "direct action done by activists not the workers themselves" is good. In fact scroll up you will see the phrase "done correctly" on like half my posts. >>3204>It's obsolete to debate whether strikes are direct action or not if you think the category is bullshit.
I don't think the category is bullshit. I think it is extremely clearly defined.
> What's more important than academic jargon is a look at real world politics, and how the term "direct action" is used, and the reality is that it is almost always used in ways to disrupt correct strategies
Except, the gilet jaunes or something.
What are you saying, communists are bad because trots exist?
1) lmao thats hardly an exhaustive list is it 2) it includes the CNT/FAI and Vietnam War protests, as well as the Gilet Jaunes.
absolute kek mate you have roasted yourself so hard here
From News anons latest post: https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/indias-farmers-vow-block-more-roads-weekend-government-refuses-back-down ROAD BLOCKS https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Chile-Cargo-Workers-Threaten-To-Stage-New-Blockages-Nationwide-20210205-0017.html MORE ROAD BLOCKS
anon, looks like striking workers in India and Chile are gonna do some direct action, I think you should tell them to tune in to Haz's next stream before they make a grave mistake
ITT pretentious retards roasted, then self roasted, then taken out the oven to be spritzed with marinade, then placed back in to be slow cooked over night to make them even more tender and juicy
The category of direct action is bullshit because if it doesn't want to be redundant, it can only exist in opposition to "indirect action" which is already creating a narrative those wrecker orgs I linked use to differentiate themselves from "reformist appeals to authority". How is going on strike with a list of demands not also an appeal to authority that can possibly pacify such a rupture? How is voting in a communist candidate into parliament who will stir shit up suddenly "indirect action"? This shit falls flat on its face and now that we clear about that we can move on to real life and correctly assert that whenever a group tried to differentiate themselves from existing movements with the meaningless slogan "direct action" they are 99% left-deviationist radicals.
The fact that you mention the farmer's strike, unbelievable. They are led by parties who you'd call "reformist" (CPI, CPI(M)) with concrete demands that don't call for socialism but rather the preservation of the subsidized, restricted small-holding system established by the INC. Meanwhile, the Naxalite MLMs call for "direct action" to blow up police cars.
And then you also seem to imply that the physical act
of applying force, such as a ROADBLOCK is materially the same as the abstract concept
of direct autism which is exactly what Haz calls the Anglo brain rot. This is your autism box sage.
>>3209>How is going on strike with a list of demands not also an appeal to authority that can possibly pacify such a rupture?
Because you are taking something away from the boss class. You are actively hurting them. Badly. Right in the profits. >How is voting in a communist candidate into parliament who will stir shit up suddenly "indirect action"?
Because it doesn't directly hurt the capitalist class, its just noise. There has never been a parliamentary communist revolution. Communists should be in parliament sure, for agitation and advocation. >This shit falls flat on its face and now that we clear about that blah blah blah blah
Said over and over, retard groups being retarded doesn't change the fundamental nature of what direct action is.
>The fact that you mention the farmer's strike, unbelievable
the strikes are direct action, the blocking of the roads to supplement this is also direct action, which is the point we are making.
> They are led by parties who you'd call "reformist" (CPI, CPI(M)) with concrete demands that don't call for socialism but rather the preservation of the subsidized, restricted small-holding system established by the INC. Meanwhile, the Naxalite MLMs call for "direct action" to blow up police cars.
This doesn't make any difference to whether the strikes themselves are direct action or not.
Can you, like, give me a definition of direct action, seeing as I have asked several times and it is pretty fucking key to what we are talking about.
>And then you also seem to imply that the physical act of applying force, such as a ROADBLOCK is materially the same as the abstract concept
quote me where I said anything like this. Anything at all, you literally just pull shit out your ass.
I notice you stopped dead talking about the Gilet Jaunes funny that.
When you said I was lying, first line of your last post, what exactly was I lying about?
You are completely fucking deranged. You have lost. You have embarrased yourself, and you just keep going. What is wrong with you
you've dropped the "its not a strike its an ontological disruption" you've then dropped the "oh but strikes are institutional and therefore not direct action" also "the scale of strikes mean they are not direct action" all of which are clearly bullshit, you've tried to claim I have a narrow perspective or some weak sauce shit like that, you've tried to claim I'm myopic, you've then tried to claim as a Maoist I'm not allowed to support direct action, now in your last post you are telling me actually, the Naxals and the ones who support direct action. You've tried to say the Gilet Jaunes are based because they did direct action correctly, but also that direct action is bad. You are literally just flailing around like a beetle that has been knocked on its back, saying fucking anything you can think of, without a shred of coherency to any of it. Joke man. Fuck off
>>3210>Communists should be in parliament sure, for agitation and advocation.
Is that direct action? Is the Communists winning the election in Czecheslovakia and starting to construct a dictatorship of the proletariat direct action? As I said you can only define direct action in contradictions to indirect action, and as such it's a completely useless definition. I'm not gonna give you your Anglo autism definition you can go to Wikipedia yourself. >hurr durr it doesn't matter what retarded orgs say
More Anglo autism, abstract concepts can not be dislodged from the real world dude. If "direct action" is used 99% by shitty wreckers then it's probably a shit concept, you might as well say that reformism is good because "the concept of reformism has nothing to do with the orgs doing it", as if Rosa Luxemburg ending up in the Landwehrkanal was some random historical disruption and not the logical outcome of the reformist project.
If you want a proper Leninist term for praxis, say "dual power". Lenin built dual power, that is not the same as direct autism. Also, implying I was shittalking the Yellow Vests. See a therapist
No I was saying the exact opposite
>>3212>Is that direct action?
No, I as a maoist
believe in a diversity of tactics however, . Primarily, organising deep for direct action, like strikes, but that is no reason when you cannot also engage in advocacy and agitation in Parliament.
> As I said you can only define direct action in contradictions to indirect action
No I define direct action as something which directly attacks the fundamental processes of capital, i.e. the wage system, rentierism, debt collection, the commodity form, and the disciplinary apparatus that back these up. As such, getting elected doesn't necessarily do this, now, yes you can use state power to do entrenched institutional direct action, and you should, if you can. That doesn't change strikes being direct action tho lmao.
> I'm not gonna give you your….definition
because you aren't arguing in good faith and you know it would make you look stupid.
> abstract concepts can not be dislodged from the real world dude
exactly why no matter what you say, strikes are direct action. No matter how far you try and abstract and obscure it with your word salads like "ontological disruption" or "instituionalised" it will always remain direct action. > If "direct action" is used 99% by shitty wreckers
but its not its used by all the most based trade unions, like the ones in india for example.
Lets ask a simple question, 1) is blocking roads direct action and 2) has it ever been used in a way which we might call based?
>If you want a proper Leninist term for praxis, say "dual power"
absolute fucking kek I said this in this post >>3157>Except I regularly advocate for co-ops, community survival programs etc as a way to build dual power,
You really are so fucking stupid and pretentious, you have no fucking idea what you are on about, dont know whether you are coming or going tying yourself in knots.
>Also, implying I was shittalking the Yellow Vests. See a therapist
no i didn't say that, i said you were bigging them up, and that they do direct action, which they do. You fucking idiot.
Still haven't had an answer.lenin_capLenin Cap
You know what I enjoy? The fact that sage got mad after haz said that "world gulag" is an edgy and retarded idea. He has no social skills and is a total theorylet. He listened to haz belittle and humiliate him on his latest stream. He probably enjoyed it. Sage is this board's lolcow masochist. He's our reek. And he's too pussy to show his face. You're a weak beta, sage.
Sage got so salty after the stream that he quit this site for 2 days. I havent seen him post at all. And now he shows up after being so degraded on a livestream, pretending hes not mad.
Well let’s see, I baited Haz into showing himself for a lib, and he did, and no of course I won’t show my face on this board kek precisely because I have a real life.
You are the lolcow mate, you’ve contradicted yourself like 10 times directly in the last 2 posts. Also compared to almost anyone on here I’m a top tier Chad, also, an actual worker, not like anybody who engages with youtube streamers, who are universally kiddies
So you’ve got no arguments on the direct action question again then just resorting to personal comments as per lmao
Simple question, do you like the gilet jaunes, and is blocking roads direct action
>>3219>haha i baited>haha im chad
You are the caricature in OP i guarantee it. Now go wipe the grease off your spectacles
The very fact that you call yourself Chad and with a capital C too, tells me that you are nobody. You have no identity if your own, no self esteem, you only look up to a fucking meme as your idol. Thats sad dude. Have sex
So, did the gilet jaunes do direct action?
Okay, but is striking Indian farmers blocking roads good or bad?
I dont care lol, I just want to make fun of you
do you enjoy being bullied by an alpha male
Did you debate Haz and lose or something? I am new to all of this Infrared stuff, but it seems like you have personal beef with them tbh.
So strikes are direct action then
No lol he said strikes aren’t direct action and gave a retard response on his live stream when I posted about it
Well now his simps refuse to admit how retarded this was, hence the endless word salad, it’s fine though, I want him to come here and see all this a shout about it on his stream
Why does it seem like you make it your personal mission to talk shit about him? Just ignore the simps.
1) baiting him so he pumps the stats 2) direct action is the main weapon of the proletariat 3) the guy I’m arguing with is fucking demonstrably retarded. Contradicts himself post to post, 4) it was a slow day at work and then I’ve been working out kek
>>3233>direct action is the main weapon of the proletariat
absolutly retarded take that only works if you define direct action as doing absolutly anything.
But direct action is a specific historic term tied to anarchists and propaganda of the deed
>>3233>direct action is the main weapon of the proletariat
Imagine being this fucking retardedbrocialismBrocialism
>>3233>direct action is the main weapon of the proletariat
Idk about that man.
Strikes and such are the main weapon of the proletariat and strikes are direct action
What other more important weapons do they have?
Strikes= Direct action
Haz simps= tragic
There are still people not agreeing with sage after this series of posts? Really? >Maoists aren't allowed to direct action>You goddam Maoist with you direct action blowing up cars
Whoever he is arguing with is clearly deeply troubled. The fact he switched to "haha I was only trolling" after he was so clearly beaten is also pretty funny.
The problem begins far earlier, if every leftist action is direct action the term is meaningless.
This thread has been destroyed by sage. Just stop replying with or without trip.
But every leftist action isn't direct action. Advocacy is not direct action. Just like mobilisation is not organisation. Petitioning your boss is not direct action, striking is direct action, can you see the difference?
>striking is not direct action
So Haz argues this because strikes "require" organization and coordination right? But at its most basic level a strike is disrupting the production process, which is what makes it direct action. You can coordinate it but wildcat strikes, slowdowns, etc do still happen, and those are obviously direct action. Just because you coordinated the action at a higher level doesn't mean that interrupting production at the ground (material) level stops being direct action.
Thank god. I can't believe it has taken this long for somebody to post this. My faith in leftypol somewhat restored.
I'm not convinced that was the statement Has made. I wouldn't be surprised if sage twisted words to make it sound like that. "direct action" is the phrase that makes 90% of sage's theoretical knowledge.
Could well be just the Infrared guys shilling for themselves in third person.>>3234>But direct action is a specific historic term
People don't stick to the usage you want them to stick to. The way the term is usually used is that it means pretty much everything that isn't one of these four:
1. sitting alone at home
2. having some debate
3. petitioning (counting here also protests with signs if you don't even block traffic)
has said that strikes are carried out by large institutions and they are therefore not direct action. You can look upthread for where i directly quoted him. >I wouldn't be surprised if sage twisted words to make it sound like that>le sage is a meany poo poo :( > "direct action" is the phrase that makes 90% of sage's theoretical knowledge.>sage doesn't know anything :(
hate more bitch it only shows i'm winning. >>3249>Could well be just the Infrared guys shilling for themselves in third person.
likely but also some of my resident haters, you can tell because of the "i wouldn't be surprised mean sage didn't twist his words" etc
I saw Haz make the argument. I don't think I misrepresented him. He was saying that because strikes happen at higher organizational levels and are about "signaling" things they aren't direct action. And I didn't address the "signal" part because it's kind of a separate argument that's more complex. Haz frames prices and markets as signals that are responded to by the capitalists at the top who effectively plan the economy.
I didnt say you were mean. Don't flatter yourself by putting words in my mouth. You're an egocentric retard. >>3251
Sounds like a trash take. I think Ian Wright's take of cybernetic capitalism is much more complete and compelling.
>>3252>Sounds like a trash take. I think Ian Wright's take of cybernetic capitalism is much more complete and compelling.
Or maybe it would be more intelligent to say that all economies are planned economies, that what actually distinguishes capitalism from socialism is whether we're doing capital accumulation, profiting, etc OR producing for use, and these distinctions about planning are nothing more than the consolidation of capitalist planning from a diffuse market of competing firms toward a monopolistic plutocracy/oligarchy where the most significant planning is only done by a few and done very centrally.
Not that this is something new
but just a particular way of phrasing it.
no just a liar and somebody who twists words.
now, say the words: strikes are direct action
So Haz has a concept box "signals" and a concept box "real activity" and he actually believes that you can cut life neatly in two like that?
Strikes are obviously direct action how is this even a conversation
Hard to say exactly because he's not big on clarification.
only wildcat strikes
Seething hateboner for sage x simping fart sniffing of Haz = concentrated autism to the point you will say pretty much anything. Truly a potent combination of narcotics. >>3259
give it up
You realise a wildcat strike is still organised to some degree. Are you going to point me to the critical level of organisation and scale that makes it stop being direct action and start being… idk something else that you are claiming it is?
Ok, I was away from anything related to /leftypol/ for a while, can anyone give me a rundown of what these Infrared guys actually believe? Is it just some retarded blend of Sakaism and Maupinism into idealizing le epic East vs the evil anglo settler west? Because from the surface level its what I am getting.bolshevikBolshevik
As far as I know they like Maupin, hate Sakai.
They just want people to have a different perspective on ML and think that western MLs approach ML with an analytical/axiomatic ("anglo") mindset.
I'm in the same boat as you, but from what I have heard, they are trying to fuse Marxism with Heideggers Thought or something. And the usual Sakaiist/Dengoid Brainrot, but the Heidegger thing is definitely a new approach
>>3264>They just want people to have a different perspective on ML
Ok, so what is that perspective? I am not going to pretend I get the philosophy talk, so what is their objection, western ML's being too idealist or something?>they are trying to fuse Marxism with Heideggers Thought
And what exactly would that Heideggers though be?bolshevikBolshevik
I don't understand the deep philosophy behind it, either, but from what I gather they think that Western MLs are too dogmatic.
Idk man, I said I'm in the same situation as you
>>3262>Ok, I was away from anything related to /leftypol/ for a while, can anyone give me a rundown of what these Infrared guys actually believe?
Are they actually Dengists?
Not Dengists per se, but they view the socialization and concentration of capital among billionaires as constituting a transition to a socialist mode of production a la "socialism for the rich," and their take on China seems to align with the idea that it's sort of running the same economic paradigm but on behalf of the working class because the communist party controls the economy. Don't quote me on that though because I haven't heard them significantly elaborate their position on China. Per their Socialism in the 21st Century video they think Africa is the site of importance for the communist movement now.
>>3254>say the words
wake up. You aren't harry potter. You words mean literally nothing to me. And your beef isn't with me, you fucking paranoid retard.
Hey everyone, get ready for this spell I'm going to cast:strikes are direct action
Ok, now your turn, say:
"My name is Sage and you're watching That's So Raven on the Disney Channel"
Seems like another waste of time, why would someone join them rather than one of the numerous other ML and trotskyst sects?
>>3273> someone join them
you can't join them. They just stream and make videos, also have a twitter, just general eceleb shit. What makes them different though is that they're based.
I honestly don't care about them, but Haz should debate Vaush. Haz has some sort of Anger Issues and seeing him calling Vaush a fat faggot would be very funny
What the fuck is this. Why does this thread have six hundred posts
That's one part of it.
>>3275>seeing him calling Vaush a fat faggot would be very funny
This. I don't like Haz, but in this case he has my critical support.
Don't bring them to this thread. It's utter trash.
Either make a new thread or don't come on leftypol.
Oh no no no. This time, I'm not going to waste my night on this
Damn, their theory sucks, but they have always great music
>Leftypol split drama is made up shit out of boredom
Actually based takebolshevikBolshevik
He hasn't even opened this thread and he is already seething lmao
Sage youre a little bitch if you dont get on zoom right now
sage is a fucking loser
If Sage doesn't debate Haz, he is officially the pussiest of all pussies and should be permabanned.
haz is cia
I love how Haz just fucking shits on An*los
I'm unsure, if Haz's anger is real or not
I want to see him debate King Lear and see the battle of the schizos.
Anyway, he sounds fucking unhinged tbh. Sure, Trade Unions in the west are a bit useless, but Infrared is a retard who needs to log off. He literally thinks that he is doing organizing by screeching into the web. Someone needs to grillpill on Cushvlogs.
Also if Infrared actually reads this, fuck your internet safespace, go out into the streets and organize your hobos. Literally the most useful thing you could do.bolshevikBolshevik
Where is Haz from? Is he a Burger? I somehow think he is from Turkey. Idk why
radical dengist anglo supremacism
I think he's palestinian but im pretty sure he's from Brooklyn
>>3294>I want to see him debate King Lear and see the battle of the schizos
Why? Because he is Anti-Dengoid? Grow up
organizing lumpens is dumb as fuck
>>3294>organize the hobos
this shit is fucking hilarious
Infrared is my favourite live action drama
>>3269>works for the cia>hates MLs>somthing about anglos(?>schizo rambling is actualpraxis guise>self hating first worlder
basically laftypols vaush
Sage is such a beta fucking male
Haz is fucking great
Keep seething anglos
>>3303>basically laftypols vaush
He even talks closer to the mic when he wants to emphasize
this egomaniac is growing too fast bros
how do we stop out board from being overrun with retard slacktivists???anarchismAnarchism
Sage got owned and humiliated.sandinistaSandinista
>Onez in da chad if sadge was dommed xd
Literally Vaushite tactics. >>3298
No, because King Lear has very funni takes on global porky conspiracies about how all geopolitical conflicts are actually fake acts. >>3299>>3300
The current political moment in the west is past the traditional Marxist worker class struggle. Working class is basically dead there, thus the struggle is actually between the exploiters and the downtrodden. The kings (international porky) and the barons (petty boug) fuck about with their own squabbles while leaving the lower classes to starve and die. The moment is more akin to the French Revolution, or the Chinese revolution, ergo the answer is Maoist peoples war, and not the retard adventurist shit, but actually creating a peoples movement.bolshevikBolshevik
Cmon someone in the chat invite him over here the sage rant is getting stalebolshevikBolshevik
yeah we should move away from all the ML dogmatism and finally accept that e celebs are the revolutionary vanguard of the 21st century
Haz status= triggered
uphold haz-vaushists thought
bitch boy get on zoom
quit being a fag and stream
hobos are not a exploited class
My work done, so easy. Haz will remember the name sage and you will all remember strikes are direct action
Somebody tell him, to stop with the earrape
Have you ever interacted with a hobo? Don't get me wrong, we have to do what we can for them, but you're not gonna "organize" them lol
Why are you such an anglo individualist idiot
No you misunderstand it is because I am not a fag that I will never engage with a YouTube streamer except to antagonise them kek
Repeating yourself over and over like a traumatized dunning-kruger won't change anything :^) direct action does nothing, individualism does nothing
Strikes are specially not individualist you fucking idiot
seethe harder anglo
I’m not the one shouting into a microphone that I am broadcasting ahahahaha
this guy is pretty intelligent and I'd love to see him destroy vaush but he's really grating with his being turned up to fucking 11 non stop. He's even approaching vaush levels of annoying with the constant fucking pretentious screaming into the mic
Exploitation doesn't fucking matter at this point. What matters is that people are desperate and can be organized towards a unified movement unified by its desperation. >>3322
Hobos is just the most memetic expression of what I mean. All the first world lower classes - those who have to work 3 different gigs, those who can't afford an ambulance, those who face eviction fears each month - all of them are the fertile base for a populist movement akin to a peasant army of Chinese revolution.bolshevikBolshevik
Think I will go back to reading my book about trade union organising now. That was fun for a minute though. Got him sweating kek
Why is that a bad thing? It's good, it shows that he has balls. you dont
Coward, why don't you join voice chat. You came off as a pathetic seething anonymous cope lord in chat. Haz is actually really respectable when speaking but when you just start shitting in chat you will get shouted at.
>strikes are not direct action
what did he mean by this?
Why can't he accept the widely agreed upon definition?
What sort of ontological autism is this?anarchismAnarchism
Stay behind your little bitch keyboard.
ok go read your furry books
your fedposting on an anonymous imageboard
stop being a dickrider
OOOH SHIT, he commin' over herebolshevikBolshevik
ITT simps mad. Me, oh I am laughing
Based trade unionist
why don't we try to get a debate set up with vaush instead of this guy screaming at random comments non stop
INFRARED DO YOU LIKE FEET
bc they arent the definition (atleast used in europe)
Is violent actions that serve to overthrow the state a strike is not even a real action but an inaction just not working lol if then the real action behind a strike is organising before it
sage, you're just giving this idiot more exposure and more content to feed off of, if you want him to go away then stop engaging.
Tbh he is correct on Trade Unions being a bit shit, in the west at least, but him thinking that his stream is somehow going to solve shit is idiotic.bolshevikBolshevik
I thought about messaging Caleb Maupin if he wants to talk to him
I don’t want him to go away I want him to poomp our stats. Every word he says about me, I like. There is no winning when you are so easily drawn into my little game teehee strikes are direct action
sounds like a good plan to made a small group of lumpens become porkies
Aight i'm gonna dm him on tw
definitions are angloid bs
it's pumping PPH by making the board actively worse, not a good trade. we need longevity now not short-term gain
wow so haz has really never had a job? hes a petit boug babby?
haz is homosex cia nigger
pretty obvious with the "BUT MARX AND ENGELS"
Cmon man, don't be mean, this shit is funbolshevikBolshevik
haz the stream of piss I do every morning does more for workers than your shit stream, Sage is right
HAZ YOU E CELEB FAGGOT GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEE
HAZ YOU E CELEB FAGGOT GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEE
HAZ YOU E CELEB FAGGOT GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEE
HAZ YOU E CELEB FAGGOT GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEE
As if you couldn't tell from him streaming himself yelling at a screen for ten hours a day
ITT haz and simps coping and s3333thing, reddit btfo
the anglo stuff is becoming a huge crutch for Haz as a lazy explanation for everything, that comment about black mirror/adam curtis is just cringe
Well at least we all learned one thing tonight, STRIKES ARE DIRECT ACTION say it with me now
lol haz this is the best lolcow ever
>Internet is reality, streams are doing shit
Literally Vaush but ML. Nigga needs to grillbolshevikBolshevik
pretty fucking useful to listen some terminally online schizo ramblings about angloids and organizing thx jannies
Haz is even more angry than a mole rat on psycho
what the fuck is this conflict about?
maybe thats why he doesn't have a GF
dubs and haz becomes fascist when he inevitably gets banned from youtube
>>3370>the anglo stuff is becoming a huge crutch for Haz as a lazy explanation for everything
'becoming'? That's his whole bit
HAZ DO YOU LIKE FEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>IT'S THE ANGLOS' FAULT PEOPLE CALL ME AN AUTIST
It’s 20 minutes later he’s still talking about me lmfao
need anglo cleanup here
freud is literally used by anglos as an excuse for everything but anglos need freud apparently.
He wasn't though, he was responding to people in this thread not you. Stop being a pussy and join him on voice chat, I think I agree with you but when you only communicate to him through chat you come off as weak.
HAZ FEET DO YOU LIKE THEM
KEK INFRARED JUST ADMITTED HE'S A PETIT BOURG
apparently you don't know what petit bourg means, read marx you dumbfuck
"I am well off"
Haz 2021 well that explains why he doesn't understand about organising your workplace, hes never had one kek
>THESE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD ARE DERAILING EVERYTHING AHHHHHH
just admit you fucking love the drama and having a little clique Haz
Funny thing is though, he will only see this post in like 2 hours if ever.
>Bernie lost cuz internet
Lmao, yea because the DNC is a democratic institution.bolshevikBolshevik
oh he sounds actually upset now i feel bad not
this guy calling anyone autistic is gold
>Muh Jimmy Dore
Ah yes, the irrelevant spectacle that totally means that the sky is falling.
So funny how a single sentence long posts derail him for 5 minutesbolshevikBolshevik
>The A word passbolshevikBolshevik
but if he discusses theory he's doing metaphysical circle jerk. lose-lose.
LMAOOO NO ONE IS POSTING AND HE'S STILL GOING THROUGH EVERY POST
This jobless man who is living off his wealthy parents is clearly who we need to bring socialism into the mainstream.
>this little bitch is trying to act tough when he just uses smith machines
the reason they're easier is because they're less effective you soyboy
Depends on what your goals are. Compound exercises work out more muscle groups but if you want to specifically target a muscle, machines are fine. Sticking to a standard routine isn't going to work anyway if you don't listen to your body, what works for you might not work for others. You should have compound exercises, and there is also the issue if you just want looks, if you want the strength, the health benefits etc.
Calling people pussy or chad for their workout routine
is the most fake shit ever, it's fucking lifting, not Thai boxing or whatever.ddrDDR
use smith machines to finish your workouts but if you're trying to make excuses to just use them, you're a woman
>>3415>Calling people pussy or chad for their workout routine is the most fake shit ever, it's fucking lifting
when you constantly reference going to the gym to act tough you are opening yourself up to criticism
>>3276>Why does this thread have six hundred posts
Bikeshedding.>>3294>go out into the streets and organize your hobos
This is so stupid that if you put it on Twitter you'll get a book deal with Douglas Lain.>>3345>why don't we try to get a debate set up with vaush instead of this guy screaming at random comments non stop
Because Vaush is an Anarcho-Bidenist
and even imageboards have standards.>>3348>a strike is not even a real action but an inaction just not working lol if then the real action behind a strike is organising before it
If a group crosses a road or train tracks, but then stops moving right in the middle of that act and just stays there, would you say this blockade is inaction? Or would you maybe say that the part of the story when they were still moving like obedient citizens was the real action, and the part of them staying in place is not? Sounds like you have autism-box syndrome tbh.
>>3418>Because Vaush is an Anarcho-Bidenist and even imageboards have standards.
I mean haz to scream at vaush you dumb cunt
Somebody record this shit for me I’m drunk by now lmao
he's STILL bragging about going to the gym, this time as though it's an alternative to organising, WHEN HE'S A LITTLE SMITH MACHINE BITCH AHAHAHAHAHAHA
I want you all to know Haz just admitted on stream to literally skipping leg day ahahaha
he doesn't even do his fucking core
Hahhahaha he said he wouldn’t ban me from the chat by here I am timed out… can’t handle to the truth Haz strikes are direct action
Because you were spamming idiot, just talk to him on zoom, even Gentle Ginjeet with his unibrow was less of a pussy than you. DM him on twitter, if you're so concerned about doxing speak in your anime voice.
No one thinks your anime villain ass has the truth.
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