No.353583[Last 50 Posts]
Thread dedicated to the discussion of Australian politics and events.
Come one come all to watch this island off the coast of Asia slowly slide into a workers paradise or a live-action version of Mad Max.
Previous thread:
>>>/leftypol_archive/19690 No.353593
This is a shim to identify me here as the Socialist Alliance anon from last thread.
No.353605
>>353559
Oh shit there you go, this was 2015.
No.353608
>>353587>you peoplePretty racist thing to say about those aboriginal teenagers.
No.353611
>>353607Armstrong and Bramble are actually the ones who converted me to real leftism - I was an ALP stooge until I read that book.
Richard Broome was one of my lecturers - nice guy.
No.353614
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-WGjqOCxDIInvaluable resource, lots of oldschool Communist Party music, plus SUA/WWF (merged into Maritime Union Of Australia) music. For bonus points go to youtube and look up Bill Berry, also Roaring Jack/Alistair Hulett.
>>353605Yeah. the party (as a party) has moved on immeasurably since then. Aside from purely internal politics, something about 8+ years of coalition rule will do that to you as well.
No.353627
>>353614Good to hear. What's the gossip about the split you mentioned?
No.353644
Interesting fact: the inventor of the 'collaborative learning space' model of university teaching was a Hegelian Marxist from Melbourne
https://ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/ No.353665
>>353633You said it was public so I figured it wasn't a secret.
No.353673
>>353633More Australian Communist learning:
>Oodgeroo of the Noonuccal tribe, aka Kath Walker, famous Aborginal poet? Highschool English class usually sold as "noble PoC disliker of white privilege". Communist Party member.>Fred Hollows, the eye doctor. You've seen the ads – "Every eye is an eye. When you are doing surgery there, that is just as important as if you were doing eye surgery on the Prime Minister or King." – Hardcore Communist. As in "witnessed singing The Internationale, drunk, with Ho Chi Minh" communist.>Adela Pankhurst, big deal suffragette? Her mother was Emalline Pankhurst? CPA>Henry Lawson, held up as the big Australian national poet alongside Banjo Paterson? Socialist! (before the CPA). Google "Faces in the Street" and "The Army of the Rear" for some serious revolutionary socialism (Bonus round: his Mum, Louisa, was also a feminist and suffragist activist)>Oriel Gray, author of play The Torrents, recently enacted by Celia Pacquola, and a big left-liberal cause celebre poem from the 50s? CPA member.>Summer of the Seventeenth Doll, big deal Australian historical play? Set against the background of CPA activism in Far North Queensland in the Depression. Those communities went on to vote for Fred Paterson, including shit like winning the CWA over to Communist Party support.Australian history is full of a mixture of elision and erasure of these important historical facts about gommunism.
>P.S. look up "Brisbane Soviet" No.353694
>>353665Sorry, I was mostly playing at being a funny bugger on the internet.
In summary, a bunch of the younger comrades leant towards Marxist economics but with anarchist/Bookchin praxid, and a number of the older comrades weren't keen on it and tried to crack down on it too hard. Consequently a lot of the best of the youth left.
Those who left are mostly still very active in anarchist/libertarian municipalist politics, especially in Adelaide, Perth, and in Brisbane around Jono Sri, including with the Anti-Poverty Network which is an awesome organisation. I basically regret that loss and I think it was avoidable. With them, however, went a bunch of the random opportunists, adventurists, cool-kids-trying-to-get-laid, etc and I don't regret that at all.
It was followed about a year later by the resignation of a couple of the youth leaders who had taken the leadership's "Trot" line harder than the actual Trots. With that, after 50+ years of history, a few stupol idiots killed Resistance as a youth fraction that had an illustrious membership including (after leaving) some Chaser contributors and even an AWU Nat Secy and ACTU Vice Pres. The subsequent desertion of the Resistance leadership who had deliberately driven out the youthful green-left "Socialism in the 21st Century" tendency struck me as a much stronger betrayal than the mere development of an anarcho-green tendency within the Alliance. Very suss behaviour, killing a 50 year old socialist youth organisation and then immediately resigning.
No.354099
>>353673>Brisbane SovietYet that's where Alexander Kerensky, the leader of the Russian Provisional Government that Lenin overthrew, ended up living because of his wife.
At a party in Surfers Paradise he said that he believed Stalin's agents were out to kill him. Not long after he moved back to the USA. Don't know if it's all connected.
No.354454
>>354099lol I just looked it up. While I don't see the relevance between Brisbane in the 1910s and the 1940s, it's hilarious to learn that he divorced his Russian wife and married an Australian journalist, Lydia "Nelle" Tritton. She had already married a White Russian officer in 1928 and divorced him in 1936, only to remarry to Kerensky. What the hell kind of weird fetish is this? Had she stayed healthy, would she have let Kerensky and spent the 1950s looking for an exiled SS-Man in Argentina?
No.354569
>>353583damn why did the new aus general have to have such a gay arse pic? can we start over?
No.354580
>>354569what's wrong with it?
No.354589
>>354580too bleeding heart, let's lighten up a bit like the other countries generals
No.354783
>>353594Can't say I am, but I'd like to learn more about them because… Well… Yeah I'm just a lazy gardner.
No.354785
>>353607Looks like a nice diverse selection.
Thanks m8y
No.354883
>>354828It does happen in certain areas of France or the US as well.
No.354949
>>353694>Very suss behaviour, killing a 50 year old socialist youth organisation and then immediately resigning.hhhhhmmmmm interdasting…
No.354953
>>354949looool rekt by glowies
But what if instead of that, xey began telling everyone that the way to achieve socialism was to provide free labor campaigning for ALP??
No.354955
>>354953That'd be pretty lush tbqh
Just imagine…
No.357049
Just sent a massive shitpost to the Spectator. Hoping they will read it.
Original:
https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/05/generation-z-stalins-little-helpers/Yes we are Stalin's Little Helpers and it is an absolutely good thing
Response (informal) to “Generation Z: Stalin’s little helpers” by Alexandra Marshall–
To Flat White and to Alexandra Marshall in particular,
This response is directed towards your previous online article “Generation Z: Stalin’s little helpers” from the 11th of May 2021. The two objectives (not parts) of this response are to further affirm i) your theory that we are Stalin’s little helpers and ii) to legally induce a general philosophical fear within you (Alexandra Marshall) in particular – I want you to think about it each night, before going to sleep, for the rest of your life. It will be a relatively informal response, because Burkeanism deserves only nuclear weapons and even this rag of a response is an excessive charity for your class. The response, in two parts will in turn 1) consist of informal commentaries on each paragraph 2) a final semi-formal response, the charity for you.
1 Informal commentary
The title: “Generation Z: Stalin’s little helpers”. Yes. Absolutely yes. I’ve read Robert Service’s 2004 biography on Joseph Stalin with the goal of emulating his life. My ultimate goal will be to turn Australia into the second communist great power of the 21st century in alliance with the People’s Republic of China, annex New Zealand, annex Vanuatu, annex New Caledonia and turn our massive uranium stockpiles into nuclear missiles, which which to nuke Indonesia and kill each and every Indonesian. Beyond that, I would very much like to fire those 100000s of thousands of missiles onto the United States, NATO countries, Chile, Spain, Russia (for failing the initial project) and a whole host of other countries. But yes, we absolutely are Stalin’s little helpers and we don’t see the problem for us, rather than for you.
“Their antics have turned…”: That’s the idea. The problem was that Stalin was too lax and libertarian, hence allowing cripples like Khrushchev to sneak into the party. The Soviet Union did not end in 1991, it ended in 1953. Stalin was a libertarian – we are not. One day, either you will actively have our ideology in your head or you will not exist. The Dictatorship of the Proletariat was not enough, what is needed is the Totalitarianism of the Proletariat.
“While pretending to fight against oppression in public…”: It would very good for the Spectator’s press equipment to be totally, physically smashed, wrecked, destroyed – not every used and reappropriated for our own ends, tainted as it is. You have vocal chords is also rather too excessive.
“Many people put this behaviour down to bad parenting, but it probably has more to do with years of indoctrination within the school system, which has focused on turning children into Marxist activists instead of intelligent young people.": That’s the funniest cunt-shit I’ve heard. It’s fucking funny how studying HSC economics post-recession made me into a full blown tankie now. But I suppose you might be correct. HSC modern history had a whole unit on Joseph Stalin and his cult of personality. Initially, I personally condemned Stalin as “inefficient” and “irrational” in accordance with my previous economistic creed. However, the 2010s, the continued wars, the Christchurch shootings, I realised he was completely efficient and rational – in relation to the existence of Burkeans. “Only their ideas matter and only their words deserve protection.” Correct.
“It is the standard Marxist response…”: If you ask me, the state is not total enough. Next.
“Children raised by the state lose the essential framework of social responsibility to their family and instead serve the interests of politicians and political movements above their loved ones. ”: That’s the idea, the point. Yes.
“Democracies were originally founded by the coalition of influential families who held more power than the state”: Okay. It would’ve been very nice to list the particular families, the year – the House of Hanover and the Glorious Revolution? But I would differ. Cromwellism is where its at.
“With the family structure in decline, they turned their attention to dismantling equality under the law…” Irrelevant, incoherent, unworthy.
“Instead, collectivist movements reduce individuals to a single attribute and then assign guilt based upon the actions of any individual within the history of that collective. ” Awesome.
“Political systems evolve in the same way as biological ecosystems. ” Politics is politics, biology is biology.
“What Gen Z call ‘Social Justice’ is really just another name for the persecution of innocent people by criminals. ”: Yes, it’s the point. Formal innocence unfortunately protects people who from our viewpoint, do not deserve to be protected.
“Greta Thunburg:” In my opinion, she should die as well. She doesn’t go far enough.
“Hitler and Mao employed identical tactics during their regimes. ”: That only speaks to the latter’s strength.
“We became Red Guards – we all shared the belief that we would die to protect Chairman Mao”: As much as the Chinese are useful as a means, they are disgusting in this regard in that they feel the need to apologise for past victories.
“Despite the terror and fear she both inflicted and suffered at the hands of the murderous revolution…” Again, I fucking hate Chinks for not revelling in the Cultural Revolution. Dengists are slavish in feeling the need to apologise for it.
“Lenin and Stalin perfected the cult of childhood Communism, manipulating Russian society with the fantasy of innocence ”: Awesome, glorious.
“The idea was to create a grassroots community feel ”: Awesome, glorious.
“It is worth pointing out that most of humanity’s worst ideas were enabled through the argument of ‘consensus’ even though consensus has no basis in truth or fact.” It doesn’t need to. Induction does not need formal deductive truth and fact. That’s the whole point of Popperism.
“The one truth which remains constant is that you have to start with children in order to create a generation of adults prepared to kill their friends and family in the name of a political leader ”: An astounding and useful insight.
“In time, this will escalate to a ‘Lord of the Flies’ scenario.”: Yes, from which the strongest and most capable shall emerge.
“We have already seen the youth of Extinction Rebellion, Antifa, and Black Lives Matter send death threats to their peers.” Which is unfortunate, because idle death threats instead of physically carrying them out without warning is worthless.
“If you think none of this matters because ‘it’s just social media’ remember that in a few short years, these kids will be the individuals running the world’s major corporations and sitting in the houses of Parliament. When a generation is allowed to engage in this sort of degenerate behaviour, it entrenches in their psyche and manifests into something much darker in their adult years. It is how you end up with governments led by irrational toddlers who use their power to murder millions in pursuit of the Socialist Utopia. ”: Informally, I would agree with you, that this all matters. And how awesome it will be to run said corporation and run Parliament for the sake of dissolving it like Cromwell. As for “murder”: I do not believe in natural law, the 10 Commandments nor international law. I am a positivist at heart. Murder requires laws prohibiting it. I intend to kill billions and it will be perfectly legal and not murder because I will write the law defining murder. Beyond the legal question, it might even be moral and ethical to do so.
2) Final semi-formal response: “Yes we are Stalin’s Little Helpers and it is good.”
Syllogistically:
Major Premise: Good comes from particular age groups believing in totalitarian ideologies.
Plato’s Form of the Good is what transforms the philosopher into the philosopher-king – Lenin and Stalin, beginning as young intellectuals, became the leaders of the Soviet Union, “philosopher into philosopher-kings”. What transformed Lenin and Stalin into those leaders was their belief in Marxism-Leninism – thus Marxism-Leninism is the same as Plato’s form of the good.1
Kant’s Categorical Imperative in its first formulation, “Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law”2, can tell us good actions from bad actions. I personally can will that my whole generation become one of Joseph Stalins, believers in Marxism-Leninism. I say it myself.
“Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do. On the one hand the standard of right and wrong, on the other the chain of causes and effects, are fastened to their throne. They govern us in all we do, in all we say, in all we think.…”3 Marxism-Leninism is the true heir to Jeremy Bentham’s utilitarianism. The Katyn Massacres were a necessary and a good balancing of pain and pleasure, for Vasily Blokhin’s mass execution of Polish officers, ensured that to this day, Poland is incapable of attacking its neighbours.
From each of these examples, we induce the rule: “Good comes from particular age groups believing in totalitarian ideologies”.
Minor premise: We millennials are that age group who believe in Stalinism. (You’re basically admitting it yourself.)
Conclusion: Yes, millennials are Stalin’s Little Helper’s and it is good.
Yours sincerely.
P.S.: I am being completely unironic when I say I want to conquer the world and kill billions of people for Stalinism and that this is a good thing. Australia should build up a 100000 thermonuclear missiles and kill with them to implement Stalinism.
1 Reeve, Plato ; revised by C.D.C. (1992). Republic ([2nd ed.]. ed.). Indianapolis, Ind.: Hackett Publ. Co, (508e2–3) .
2 Kant, Immanuel (1993) [1785]. Groundwork of the Metaphysic of Morals. Translated by Ellington, James W. (3rd ed.). Hackett.
3Bentham, Jeremy. 1780. "Of The Principle of Utility." Pp. 1–6 in An Introduction to the Principles of Morals and Legislation. London: T. Payne and Sons
stalinStalin No.357063
>>357049incredible. i wish to see this vision of australia vengeful with my own eyes someday. keep it up stalin
No.357066
>>357049This is what would happen if somebody tried to build communism by using anti-communist propaganda from the cold war as a blue print.
No.357124
>>357049Omega based
eurekaEureka No.358570
>>357049this is too based for the /aus/ general
No.358819
>>357049Unfathomably based. Uncritical support to Stalin mustache anon for absolute oriental Stalinist despot of Australia.
jucheJuche No.358875
>>357049Now THAT'S a shitpost
eurekaEureka No.358968
I love how COVID has finally instilled some sort of class awareness in Australians.
Of course, the "left" in australia is just liberals who are just "gib UBI pls" cucks, so it's mostly the right doing all the talking about the various ways in which the government and corporations are in bed together fucking over the australian people and robbing them blind.
None the less, it is a great opportunity for socialists, people are very receptive right now, and highly critical of the ruling class.
No.359148
>>357049Make this man a mod
No.359158
Should Australian socialists support Labor in elections to stop LibNat hegemony or should we spoiler for green/Communist/Marxist microparties to kill off the NeoLibs as quickly as possible?eurekaEureka
No.359173
>>359158Dunno if it passed you by, comrade, but we've got a preferential voting system in Australia.
This literally means that Australian socialists can vote for parties in order of preference. And if you've got a socialist organisation that does electoralism, from local council (ACP) to national registration (Socialist Alliance, SEP), that organisation can hand out how-to-vote cards in order of preference.
I think it is relatively uncontentious that individual Australian socialist voters, and Parties putting together how-to-votes, should preference Labor in elections over the LNP.
Probably an order like:
>Socialists you're a part of>Other socialist parties>random microparties if they'd be valuable or left-aligned>Greens UNLESS [Greens are likely to win AND Labor's local candidate is better because of left politics or left Union affiliation] ; this almost never happens at the federal level>Labor>Random non-fascist microparties that are still a bit rightwing, like Shooters Farmers Fishers and Katter's Australia Party (remember: Katter is a longterm pro-union man and almost always votes the union perspective on class-war votes and labour legislation, even if he's a fuckwit in other respects)>Liberal/National>Fascist microparties like Liberal Democrats>One Nation and anything worse No.359214
>>359158but Scovid is doing so much damage, lmao
No.359257
>>359158Wasn't this the cause of the split in the CPA?
>>359173That's only if your favourite candidate is likely to win or has no chance. In the middle, we have the spoiler effect. Here is a video explaining this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtKAScORevQIf a third party candidate, like the Greens, gets more first preference votes than the Labor candidate, they could be handing the election to the LNP. This is because when the Labor candidate is eliminated, if Labor voters rank LNP ahead of Greens, LNP will probably win. So in that election, you are better ranking Labor #1 and Greens #2 even if you actually want Greens to win.
No.359270
>>359257>This is because when the Labor candidate is eliminated, if Labor voters rank LNP ahead of Greens, LNP will probably win.Low energy.
Scovid will beat your sleepy anthony
No.359273
>>359257Did you perhaps miss the composite logical expression I attached specifically to the Greens case in the logical flow diagram?
At any rate, this is highly fucking unlikely in the actual reality of Australian politics. It is CERTAINLY not the case for the original statement of "Green/Communist/Marxist" parties – in Australia, literally the only party left of Labor that will be in this position in the foreseeable future is the Greens.
And to be honest, any time there's a big bloc of LNP voters that are likely to be preferencing Greens highly, that in itself is enough of an indication of bizarre political fracture in a leftward direction that the kind of socialists who don't want Labor to get up will either be overjoyed about ("Lib voters are swinging Green! Woohoo!") or cynically unconcerned about ("they're all just capitalists, all politicians are as bad as eachother unless you vote MY specific kind of Trot-Leftcom into power!")
No.359284
>>359158Are you asking me if in the 2PP I'll preference ALP or LNP? It'll be LNP tbh but with any luck my electorate might swing to the Greens, if only for spoiler value.
Either way, Morrison will be back for 3 more years.
No.359287
>>359284>LNP tbhALP even*
No.359288
>>359257Also cyka blyat what are you playing at? That fucking Center for Election science channel is funded by Open Philanthropy Project which is just a dark money outfit with a primary funder who is literally Dustin Moskovitz, Zuckercuck's Facebook co-founder (the guy in Social Network who got cucked by Justin Timberlake's Napster guy).
You might as well be showing us some Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk endorsed propaganda
No.359502
>>357049>The title: “Generation Z: Stalin’s little helpers”. Yes. Absolutely yes. I’ve read Robert Service’s 2004 biography on Joseph Stalin with the goal of emulating his life. My ultimate goal will be to turn Australia into the second communist great power of the 21st century in alliance with the People’s Republic of China, annex New Zealand, annex Vanuatu, annex New Caledonia and turn our massive uranium stockpiles into nuclear missiles, which which to nuke Indonesia and kill each and every Indonesian. Beyond that, I would very much like to fire those 100000s of thousands of missiles onto the United States, NATO countries, Chile, Spain, Russia (for failing the initial project) and a whole host of other countries. But yes, we absolutely are Stalin’s little helpers and we don’t see the problem for us, rather than for you.OMEGA BASED
eurekaEureka No.359799
>>359273You're thinking in terms of who you like and ranking them from top to bottom. This is what most people are taught to do because it does what it's supposed to in most situations. In SOME situations that can be harmful.
When Greens are eliminated, you can bet that most preferences go to Labor, but not always the other way around. If a large chunk of Labor voters preference another candidate over Greens, then it may be better to vote Labor over Greens regardless of who you think is better.
This is another explanation of the problem.
https://electowiki.org/wiki/Favorite_betrayal_criterion#Instant-runoff_voting>>359288Irrelevant, the video is factually correct.
No.361202
>>359799Yes, a weakness exists in this voting system.
Knowing this information, do you have any concrete proposal for how to vote?
No.361258
>>360982they're in the books :(
No.361495
>>361202Perhaps you should draw a penis on your ballot or write in Pol Pot
No.363675
>>361495PRAXDIKS
:DD 8===D
No.363726
>>361495If I didn't live in a coalition stronghold & the seat was actually contested I'd vote pref labor. The only other parties I'd vote for in any capacity are katters or fishers and shooters.
Because I do live in a rural nationals fiefdom I'm probably going to write in Pol Pot or Josef Fritzl.
jucheJuche No.365620
>step 1: Housing Booble bursts.
>step 2: All those disgusting new-suburbs with the same house copy-pasted 1000 times on a grid get abandoned halfway through construction.
>step 3: /auspol/-Lumpen-Greens-Anarchist-PostLeft coalition turn one into a small town sized squat.
>????eurekaEureka
No.365623
>>365620I'm not living with you weirdos
No.365624
https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/rashays-face-mask-arrest-rami-ykmour/
>Footage Is Going Viral Of Cops Arresting The Founder Of Rashays Over A Face Mask DisputeBased petty bourgeois vs copper bourgeois infighting
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.365641
>>365624hahahaha holy shit they have the whole station there because someone doesnt have a mask on? what if there's a genuine emergency somewhere else? fucking retards lmao I hope they die
No.365645
>>365620>step 3: /auspol/-Lumpen-Greens-Anarchist-PostLeft coalition turn one into a small town sized squatIt would collapse into factions the moment the first person arrived. The greens would be the first to cuck out. The anarchists would be so-so, half would cuck out with the greens but the other half would probably be decent. The Post-Leftists would get fed up with any rules or responsibilities and end up being kicked out or starting their own town with blackjack and hookers.
The trots would would try to coopt the entire project and the ACP/CPA would have a single house with the CPA-ML living in their basement.
eurekaEureka No.365646
>>365624>rashaysIs this a Sydney thing I'm too Melbourne to understand?
No.365670
>>365646Good pasta, good wine (strangely enough owner is a Lebo Muslim). Unfortunately, got white vs red wine confused once before.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.365679
>>365671Yeah, that's accurate if we include the CPA-ML climbing the nearest high point to hang a Eureka flag and then slink back into the darkness.
No.365688
It would be pretty funny if the CPA-ML actually turned out not to be bullshitting.
Like it turns out most of the generals in the Defence force are actually clandenstine CPA-ML members they begin the revolution when ScoMo asks them to die in Taiwan for the burgers.eurekaEureka
No.365777
>>365671Meanwhile, in the chaos:
> Extinction Rebellion start gluing onto random houses. If they're unlucky it'll be on the CPA-ML house, where they whereby get shot.> Permaculturalists and communalists have a great time gardening all over the squat. Shame it'll all be burned down by the post-left gang when they have their town wide doof. No.365796
>>353594Yeah it's pretty dope. Imo it's the best way to build dual power in Aus as the climate crises grows. I'm writing a piece describing the problems with industrial agriculture, the solution of suburban food forests and what we need to do to make it reality
No.365803
>>353594>>365796>>365777Retard here.
What is the difference between Permaculture as a theory and just generic post-left / AnPrim / Teddite "Lol lets burn down the factories and replant the forests!".?
eurekaEureka No.365805
>>365688>if the CPA-ML actually turned out not to be bullshitting.Bullshitting about what
No.365827
Ok so apparently the libs literally told a bald faced lie that anyone not retarded would know would be debunked anyway just…because?
They claimed that they have 'worked out a new deal with Phizer' to secure '20 million doses' and then literally hours later Phizers spokesman came out and said there has been NO recent communication in regards to that between the gov and them at all and the '20 million doses' is what the libs negotiated like months ago.eurekaEureka
No.365836
>>365827The Fake News MSM has gone along with it
No.365837
>>365794>>357049I haven't seen a response on their site yet. Thinking about snail priority mailing a written copy, but have to consider anonymity.
stalinStalin No.365857
>>365827not sure what the benefit is other than giving false hope
maybe they will trick some smool businesses into remaining open. lool their savings will be drained by the misleading advice
No.365858
>>365803>What is the difference between Permaculture as a theory and just generic post-left / AnPrim / Teddite "Lol lets burn down the factories and replant the forests!".?Because permaculture isn't anti-technology?
anarcho-primitivismAnarcho-Primitivism No.365862
>>365837Lol dude that's a lot of dedication for a gag, I hope you put as much effort into other projects
anarcho-primitivismAnarcho-Primitivism No.365886
>>365827They do this all the time. People who pay attention know it, some care, some don't. People who don't pay attention think Morrison is great, which is why he'll win again.
No.365888
>>365624We need a few American cops on the force.
No.365902
Do you guys see Indonesia as a credible military threat?
No.365937
>>365886yes, the vaccines have been "a few weeks away" ever since the beginning of th pandemic, haha
realistically, many of the smool businesses would been better off shutting down permanently at the first wave
No.365983
>>365777>Permaculturalists and communalists have a great time gardening all over the squatwholesome tbqh
No.366131
Does anyone here take COVID seriously?
No.366829
>>365902From the 1965 killings, the treatment of East Timor and the West Papua problem, you are deluded if eventually, the Javan menace will not become an American-servant threat. Indonesia is ten times more threatening than China by distance and history.
stalinStalin No.366970
>>365803As a theory, Permaculture doesn't have any strong anti-technology elements in it. The original writings in the 1970s do have a bit of a doom-and-gloom, "peak oil is coming, we need to start preparing for the collapse" mindset (hence the original meme referencing Mad Max) arising from the 1970s oil crisis, the ousting of Whitlam, and all the other turbulent shit from the 70s. Then again, we've got our own worries with the climate crisis etc. and so it's not like that's all gone away. A big obsession in permaculture is limiting energy usage from fossil fuel sources, and it's kind of a legacy of that era (and not a bad one to have).
The main points of permaculture can be summed up as:
> Fair shares: Build your food production systems to be as self-sustaining as possible> People care: Build your food production system to sustain a network of mutual aid with other people> Earth Care: Build your food production system to improve the environment you're farming, not destroy itSo as to minimise the need for industrial-scale farming practices like exhausting the soil and then dumping tons of fertiliser on it, or using insecticides that kill all the predator bugs along with the things eating your crops, so you now need to keep using pesticides. A lot of it is about trying to minimise the effort required by mimicking natural processes, and there's much less backbreaking labour than if you're doing some medieval style farming.
So for a large sized communal farm, permaculture proposes techniques for retaining more water, using natural waste (leaf mulch, animal shit) as fertiliser, keeping animals in such a way that it helps increase the fertility of the soil (pigs rooting around to aerate the soil in fallow seasons), and so on. Permaculture generally prefers not to do full-scale soil tilling
For a small scale home system, this means keeping your own veggie garden, maintaining a compost heap, maybe plant a few trees or a planter box of strawberries on your apartment windowsill and give the excess fruit away to your neighbours (to build connections and community for mutual aid).
Permaculture has the distinction of being picked up at large scale in Cuba, after the USSR collapse left them without a good source of industrial products (petroleum, nitrate fertiliser), and it seems to have worked pretty well. What is undeniable is that intensive farming seems to be able to produce about 10 times the food per unit of land, at a cost of about 3-5 times the labour hours, with drastically lower energy inputs. This is great because it's still a relative saving (i.e., double output per unit land), you can repurpose the land to other uses, and all you have to trade-off for it is a fairly enjoyable type of labour that tends to bring people together, provide a common purpose, avoid unemployment, etc.
In some areas of the enviro left there's a bit of contention about permaculture but I completely understand it. Some people in permaculture had a history of acting like the SAlt of enviro-farming, "we have the One True Way and everyone else is not inspired by the divine light of Bill Mollison", and there's definitely another fringe of people who love to talk a big an-prim game on their way back from a trip to Bunnings with their community gardening group. I prefer to see permaculture as one part of a broader ecosystem of agro-ecological method and practice, all of which has much useful information for us, both in terms of building viable mutual aid networks here today, and how to run the food economy After The Revolution (tm).
No.367000
>>366131Yes. Government should have
1. Built dedicated quarantine facilities
2. Made efforts to ensure all Australians could return home.
3. Ensured access to an excessive amount of vaccines of varying types - if everything turned out well and we had spares we could have donated the rest to developing countries.
Instead they refused to build quarantine facilities, put caps on people coming home (unless you're going overseas on business lol) and were tightasses when it came to securing vaccines.
No.367674
>>366970Why do people rag on it so much?
It seems wholesome and well intention, even a bit quixotic in the Bookchin sort of way.
bro I just want to help create a cosy community garden that doesn't get overrun with oldies
No.367676
>>366970You seem to know a bit about this.
Could you give some commended readings please?
I wonder if this'd work in Aboriginal communities too.
No.367837
>>367674As I alluded to before, a lot of permaculture people have historically been quite fanatically self-righteous, and actually I think very similarly to the way some Bookchinites got a bad rep (for the record I quite like Bookchin). I should say that I think Bookchin has huge overlap with Permaculture and I'd highly recommend Social Ecology and Ecology of Freedom as complimentary works to permaculture.
There's also a factor where a lot of permaculture… er, culture is rooted in the 1970s boomer assumptions of the world. It's not uncommon, even today, to hear shit on forums like "I got into permaculture years ago, and kids these days don't know how to economise. If you don't have a water source near to your homestead, just use the river that runs through your property" and so on. Land was cheap then. There's also a tendency for people to spout off (erroneously) about the theory of permaculture when they haven't so much as planted a herb garden, but again this is no different to other arguments about theory without praxis. Finally, like a lot of the environment movement there's a lot of people who are kind of wacky tree-wizards who'll tell you about a dream they had 30 years ago, plus regular old XR-type radlibs, and so on – all taken together I understand where the bad rap came from, but at the end of the day that's just what happens when you live as a social animal around other people.
Still, for our purposes, who cares, there's still a lot that can be applied from apartment windowsills to post-revolutionary arcological farms.
>>367676The classic readings are:
>Permaculture One - Mollison and Holmgren>Permaculture Two - Mollison>Permaculture Designers Manual - Mollison>Gaia's Garden [Permaculture for urban and suburban gardens; very good book]Plus:
>The One-Straw Revolution - Masanobu FukuokaA Japanese farmer doing similar stuff around the same time, kind of got integrated into the permie canon
>The Power of DuckGuess what this one's about
Bonus round: while Bruce Pascoe's "Dark Emu" and Bill Gammage's "The Biggest Estate on Earth" are relatively new books that got bulk press for supposedly being the first to say that Aboriginal people used ecological/agricultural techniques, actually there's a bunch of mentions in the original 1970s Permaculture I and II talking about how this was well known, and how we should use these techniques as they're (obviously) well suited to Australian conditions.
No.369133
>>367837I think You hit the nail on the head, you have to take out the production techniques from perma culture but leave the weird cultist shit.
No.369143
>>353587Anti-dengoid eshay praxis
No.369152
>>369150BUT ANON LOOK HOW KEWL SINGAPORE LOOKS ITS CYBERPUNK JUST LIKE THE MOOVIES!!!!11!!!!
eurekaEureka No.369163
>>369127What is even more ironic is that they are pointing to Singapore which has everything they accuse Australia of in far worse levels, they have one of the lowest fertility rates in the world and rely heavily on immigration and foreign labour - with close to 50% of their population having been born overseas.
This is your brain on nationalism.
No.369179
>>369127Well that's just sad.
eurekaEureka No.369195
>>367837Thanks for the sources.
And yeah, it seems so many things are take the techniques, dispense with the culture.
No.369196
>>369157Why can't the LNP. like just all of them, fucking get COVID and die or something.
Christ.
No.369348
>>369345>Could someone point me towards some theories about what is to be done in Australia?Go back to Ingerland.
No.369364
>>369348and then what?
anarcho-primitivismAnarcho-Primitivism No.369366
>>369364You'll figure it out. Why didn't you "and then what?" Before you moved to the desert with your pasty skin?
No.369371
>>369345My best guess is that climate change is going to hit some fairly populated areas pretty hard.
Sydney is the obvious example with water shortages.
Things are looking rough for the South-West of WA, water shortages again.
The north coast is going to have wild heatwaves.
Remote communities are potentially going to stop being supported if water problems grow intense enough.
Our agriculture sector is potentially going to be impacted hard as well. Heatwaves in grazing areas might impact livestock a lot. We saw heatwaves kill a ton of fruit bats a couple years ago, so why not cattle? This will obviously lead to issues.
Our reliance on exporting fossil fuels might be a big problem when the rest of the world adopts more renewables.
etc.
This will all lead to a general unsteadiness in Australia. I think we should be building dual power by setting up community based systems which are resilient against climate change (permaculture, renewable energy, small scale industry, etc.). Then, if revolution ever happened, we'd have systems already in place.
I'm writing about this in essay form on my blog if anyone is interested:
https://greenanarchodoomerism.wordpress.com>>369366I was born here tho, and I never moved to the desert.
anarcho-primitivismAnarcho-Primitivism No.369414
>>369371Your essay on the crisis being here is good but I think you should be a little more critical of XR's tactics and ideology - below is a good essay that touches on the tactics of theatrics as well as the questionable methodology that "proves" non-violence as being politically better than violent tactics.
https://www.orchestratedpulse.com/2016/06/you-call-this-an-uprising/ >"Activists should of course focus on strategies to disrupt the social order. But not all disruption is created equal. Winning attention is not the same thing as winning and media spectacle does not make movements. “Changing the conversation,” absent some wider change in the balance of forces in civil society is a sterile accomplishment. It seems appropriate that the Englers include an entire chapter on how activists can claim victory when they don’t achieve their stated goals."(just control+G and type in "Nonviolence works?" for a criticism of Erica Chenoweth)
No.369420
>>369414Also in relation to climate change heightening political tensions, I agree. I have a feeling that it would force more people into the cities and force the cities further apart as well.
No.369569
>>367837I've been thinking about getting into gardening recently and this sparked my interest. But god damn you can tell there is a cult by how expensive those books are.
No.374069
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glgCA9WmqkINew Ecological blackpill just dropped.
eurekaEureka No.374216
>Der-Boomer uncle watching Sky.
>"THE SOLOMON ISLANDS IS BETRAYING AUSTRALIA THEIR GREATEST ALLY BY CHOOSING TO ACCEPT CHINESE MADE VACCINES INSTEAD THE BURGERINO ONES WE OFFERED TO DONATE!!!!!!"
What…What sort of ideology even is this???eurekaEureka
No.374425
>>374396why are you so desperate to turn Australia into the United Kingdom when you could just move here and enjoy the fruits of your preferred policy pathway being put into practice poorly.
No.374428
>>374425>6 people died today in the UK as of last update.As i said less then a percentage of the population.
6 more people probably also died of Pneumonia brought on by common cold or complications from a second cause in the UK today as well.
Let people take the scienceTM jooce if they want.
ENCOURAGE people to isolate if they think their at risk. And to do basic health and safety shit (Wash Hands etc)
We have had 112 cases (yesterday) and only 1 death from this entire outbreak and we've basically impovrished most of my states working population because of it.
eurekaEureka No.374444
>>374069please fuck off cunt
No.374455
>>374428>We have had 112 cases (yesterday) and only 1 death from this entire outbreak this is precisely what demonstrates that the Australian strategy has worked better than the British one: Britain not only
still impoverished the population, but also got 128,000 people killed and all but guaranteed that things are still going to be fucked in 2025. using the lack of deaths to argue against preventative measures is like arguing that jumping out of a plane without a parachute is a good idea because most people who've done it
with one were fine.
No.374533
>>369371>I think we should be building dual power by setting up community based systems which are resilient against climate change (permaculture, renewable energy, small scale industry, etc.). Then, if revolution ever happened, we'd have systems already in place.Totally agreed. This is basically what the ACP is
trying to do with CUDL. Being new kids on the block, of course, not much has been developed thus far but in Melbourne there is a comrade trying to get CUDL to do more gardening/enviro stuff and I know at least person in the ACP cell there who is doing a PHD or something in some form of environmental science. Of course, being the "youth split", the ACP also lacks alot of experience and have basically started from scratch, all the resources from their split with the CPA staying with the CPA.
>>369345 is correct though. The radicals here are too splintered. From personal experience though, it seems like there's some level of cooperation between good (ie. active and not overzealous) anarchists and the ACP. An aspect to this is mutual dislike for the various trot parties and the stagnant CPA/CPA-ML. Hopefully this new generation can get their wits together.
Also the ALP/Greens are fucking hopeless.
>defend GonlazoMeme lords. Can be safely ignored imo. Surprisingly, the best maoists in Australia are actually with the CPP
eurekaEureka No.374573
>>374533>the best maoists in Australia are actually with the CPPdamn, respect
No.374814
>>374533>CUDL to do more gardening/enviro stuffDo they get involved in existing gardening/enviro groups? There are already quite a lot in Australia.
No.374967
>>369414It's something I'm very critical of, I tried to make that apparent in my essay but I guess that wasn't the case.
For example, I say:
>I think it unreasonable to expect that we can force the restructuring our entire economy when we could not put an end to sexism and racism through the same tactic of nonviolent civil disobedience.Is this not explicitly critical of XR's tactics and ideology?
>>374533> This is basically what the ACP is trying to do with CUDL.I'm v curious about the CUDL. How well do they connect to people who don't identify with communism? That's something XR has had a lot of success with, that imo, should be copied by radical leftists.
anarcho-primitivismAnarcho-Primitivism No.375168
>>374814>Do they get involved in existing gardening/enviro groupsIf you have any input or even want to help CUDL in that regard, I doubt you'd be outright turned down or ignored.
But afaik, people who volunteer with CUDL usually do that sort of thing
outside of CUDL. Regardless, new group with very limited resources. We'll see how they develop.
>>374967>I'm v curious about the CUDL. How well do they connect to people who don't identify with communism?There was this vietnam vet (I think), the most anti-communist bloke you could find, volunteered consistently and served the people under the hammer and sickle alongside ACP members. Most kitchens (yes, I know, "muh soup tankies") there is generally an ACP member or CUDL volunteer having a chat with a patron and most people approaching to ask questions come in good faith and are generally receptive.
I don't know how many people would be willing to follow the directives of the party, but CUDL seems to be able to connect decent enough.
In regards to connecting with non-ML organizations and campaigns… In general, the strategy being employed (at least in Melbourne) is one whereby CUDL (ACP too to a degree) acts as a "force multiplier" of sorts, assisting other groups to build rapport, show sincerity in their beliefs and display the willingness to action of their membership. Say, for instance, their involvement with organizing this year's IMARC blockade or their membership assisting medic crews at protests/actions.
At the moment, I think CUDL has the potential to act as a sort of duct tape for fragmented radicals sick of sectarian hoo ha (SAlt). By this I mean that CUDL, though being an organ of the ACP, isn't averse to coordinating with non-communists if it means doing some good deed. They're not going to refuse someone on a stupid sectarian basis but they're not going to allow wreckers.(They're also not going to stand by as people bad mouth the party but I mean come on, that's universal.) They get people out doing generally non-dangerous non-illegal action while retaining the radical, revolutionary edge. Some sort of common direction, neutral ground even, is what the left in Aus needs to get itself on it's fucking feet and I think CUDL can provide that. I could be wrong, horribly so, but we'll see. Regardless, CUDL has a long way to go.
The main weakness of the ACP/CUDL is, as I've stated before, the low amount of resources and lack of experienced members. Lacking well developed and highly disciplined cadre to fall back on means that cohesion and consistency of action suffers. Lacking resources (cash money) also means limits in what can realistically be done. I'm confident this will be resolved in time but I can't say if it will be resolved fast enough.
Relevant article:
https://www.auscp.org.au/militant-monthly/2020/12/5/come-on-sunday-thats-when-the-communists-come
>That's something XR has had a lot of success withFrom where I'm standing, XR looks to a bunch of adventurists in it more to "stick it to the man" by performing stunts that alienate a large section of the working class and only foster more adventurist tendencies as impressionable radicals all flock to have their "revolutionary moment." XR may be only as "popular" as it is
precisely because they lack effectiveness and are thus tolerated to a degree. In short, they are in the process of being recuperated by capitalism. Most people who have a clue only touch whatever XR does with a 10m pole.
Maybe if CUDL wanted to be a breeding ground for liberals, it'd try emulate XR. I get what you mean though and I think the main approach CUDL has for getting support is best summed up by saying "actions speak louder than words". For real though, all lefty nibbas need to step up our game.
eurekaEureka No.375256
Comrades, I want to try living somewhere else. There's nothing wrong with where I am in Australia, I'm just up for some mild adventure and something new. If you got to pick anywhere in Australia to live, where would you go?
I know it can be hard to move right now with border closures, but let's just assume you can move because they do open the borders from time to time.
>>375168>>375211Where is the most promising CUDL group to join?
No.376196
>>375256Sydney then Melbourne probably.
eurekaEureka No.376960
>>376908
>>376950
fuck off, /pol/eurekaEureka
No.379271
>>375168> acts as a "force multiplier" of sorts, assisting other groups to build rapport, show sincerity in their beliefs and display the willingness to action of their membership.Fuck, so exactly what a dude in our local AUWU is doing. Helping be a "multiplier" at union events and actions.
He's even started using his own 3d printer to make little key-chains to sell to general members of the public to help fund stuff like stalls and charity donations.
No.379274
>>375256>If you got to pick anywhere in Australia to live, where would you go?Tasmania.
Lots of work to be done there.
No.379375
Does anyone whose not mentally retarded unironically buy the "LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT IN A DECADE!!!" Bullshit?
People i work with think the government is just outright lying at this point because basically everyone knows at least two people who are out of work cuz of covid or its secondary effectseurekaEureka
No.379387
>>379375Some family members do :\
Now they think it's "great" that underemployed can get two or three jobs to equate to full time.
No.379616
>>375168>In general, the strategy being employed (at least in Melbourne) is one whereby CUDL (ACP too to a degree) acts as a "force multiplier" of sorts, assisting other groups to build rapport, show sincerity in their beliefs and display the willingness to action of their membership. Say, for instance, their involvement with organizing this year's IMARC blockade or their membership assisting medic crews at protests/actions. Very interesting, this doesn't really exist in Perth, and is something I've been trying to conceptualize, so it's nice to see that this kind of org exists.
>The main weakness of the ACP/CUDL is, as I've stated before, the low amount of resources and lack of experienced members.This is something that I think XR has to offer, community draw has a lot of potential. Here in Perth local groups are slowly developing, and I'm wanting to help make XR focus less on the whole 3.5% of the population meme and more on what the CUDL are up to.
>From where I'm standing, XR looks to a bunch of adventurists in it more to "stick it to the man" by performing stunts that alienate a large section of the working class and only foster more adventurist tendencies as impressionable radicals all flock to have their "revolutionary moment."I can only comment on what's going here in Perth. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I do have a few points of disagreement. Ultimately all radical groups alienate a significant section of the working class, we're in a pretty stagnant position in Aus. No group in Aus is growing significantly, as far as I'm aware anyway. Plus in my experience people who get disrupted by XR either sympathize and engineer yuppies tend to support us (I know quite a few engineers and they mostly seem to be begrudgingly working for the mines). Idk how XR has marketed themselves over east, but here i don't think that issue exists.
>XR may be only as "popular" as it is precisely because they lack effectiveness and are thus tolerated to a degree. In short, they are in the process of being recuperated by capitalism. I mean this can be applied to every group lol. Even something like CUDL can be recuperated by capitalism, plenty of communist parties have done so.
> I get what you mean though and I think the main approach CUDL has for getting support is best summed up by saying "actions speak louder than words". For real though, all lefty nibbas need to step up our game.I definitely agree, direct action is the best way forward. I am skeptical though of how effective direct action will be overcoming the various negative associations people have with communist aesthetics.
anarcho-primitivismAnarcho-Primitivism No.379619
>>379271Has anyone written anything about this kind of organizing? I'd be keen to set something up of similar form in Perth
anarcho-primitivismAnarcho-Primitivism No.379632
>>379387how do they think that's great?
No.381097
>>379375Well for me I've always assumed the unemployment rate isn't necessarily untrue but that all the jobs people are getting are piss poor in pay and hours.
No.381120
>>379271>Fuck, so exactly what a dude in our local AUWU is doing. Helping be a "multiplier" at union events and actions. AUWU and UWU are pretty based ngl.
Main issue with this sort of thing though is when it's done on an individual basis with little effort to then "unify" the worker's movement.
(also make note of trade union economism etc etc)
>>379616>I mean this can be applied to every group lol. Even something like CUDL can be recuperated by capitalism, plenty of communist parties have done so. My point was moreso that from what I've been told, the leadership of XR is hopelessly liberal and actively weeds out radicals. This, of course, makes trying to
>help make XR focus less on the whole 3.5% of the population meme and more on what the CUDL are up tofar harder. Even if it is achieved, without a cohesive revolutionary anti-capitalist line, the threat of recuperation is ever higher.
If XR is better over where you are, could ya give some tips in regards to how you go about interacting with them (for lack of a better term)? I'd like to see an effective XR over here but people have tried and failed to break through the liberalism.
>I am skeptical though of how effective direct action will be overcoming the various negative associations people have with communist aesthetics.We'll see hey. I assume that if it is seen to be too much of an issue/hurdle for organizing, it will be brought up at the next party congress. I don't see ACP/CUDL rebranding too much in the near future.
eurekaEureka No.381349
>>381120>Main issue with this sort of thing though is when it's done on an individual basis with little effort to then "unify" the worker's movement. (also make note of trade union economism etc etc)
For sure there are issues.
But it's being my observation that it's a) Scalable relative to local conditions, b) Accessible with a low entry of "scary activism", and c) Can ultimately be unified from local outward (like postcode > council/town > region > state > federated > unified).
Plus most people and groups can do it. It's very "Sea before the mountain" kind of thinking, but allows access which I feel it key locally.
No.382921
>NOOO NOOO NOOO #SCOVID #GUILTYGLADYS YOU NEED TO LOCK US DOWN! YOU NEED TO SEAL US INSIDE OUR HOMES!
>WE NEED TO STAY INSIDE FOR YEARS AND YEARS JUST TWO MORE YEARS TO FLATTEN THE CURVE GUYS!!!!
>HEY I JUST TOOK FOUR VACCINES IN ONE DAY NOW IM SUPER VACCINATED! THANK YOU MEDICAL SUPERHEROES!eurekaEureka
No.382978
any locomotive autists here? I want to know about australia's railways and trains in the late 1800s. any resources would be appreciated
No.383055
>>379375>>379375I do because one immigration has stopped and most importantly because I know the government abuses statistics by not counting unemployed people who aren’t looking for work.
No.383057
>>382921stop being a fuckhead
No.383070
>>382978wtfjesse.jpeg
eurekaEureka No.383321
>>382978Fuck it, I can't remember how to crosspost.
Anyway, there'sa thread over in /hobby/ for trains and rail enjoyers.
No.383442
>>382978You might be well served trying to cozy up to leftwing members of the Railway, Tram and Bus Union (RTBU) if you know any in your local area.
An older comrade of mine was a public servant (CPSU) when he retired but he was a railway worker as a young man in the 1980s and I can regualrly sit down over a beer, ask him to tell me about trains, and stand up 20 beers later without having heard 1% of his stories and the shit he knows about trains.
No.384594
>>382978What part of Australia? Each colony literally had their own system that was incompatible with the others.
No.384769
>>383321thanks, i posted there
>>383442hmm i don't know anyone but i was thinking about asking around at the ipswich railway museum
>>384594this is interesting and retarded. id want to mostly know about NSW and VIC
No.384836
>>384594> Each colony literally had their own system that was incompatible with the others.JUST
pretty much why we can't get any decent rail infrastructure off the ground.
No.385489
>>381120>The leadership of XR is hopelessly liberal and actively weeds out radicals.Hopelessly liberal? Yes
Actively weeds out radicals? Not where I am at least, for a time SAlt were involved (before they left on their own accord), and Socialist Alliance are big allies in terms of hands and a space to meet at (they don't propagandize much tho). Most radicals leave though as it's quite hard engaging with liberal boomer takes (like the police are our friends, there's actually a chance the government will capitulate, etc.).
>Even if it is achieved, without a cohesive revolutionary anti-capitalist line, the threat of recuperation is ever higher. Yeah that's a big reason I'm critiquing XR internally. I've managed to get a handful of good activists on board and I see a lot of potential with XR's local groups. We'll see if it goes anywhere, but in any case I definitely see committed members of XRWA becoming disenfranchised with its liberal theory of change.
>could ya give some tips in regards to how you go about interacting with them (for lack of a better term)? I'd like to see an effective XR over here but people have tried and failed to break through the liberalism.There isn't a quick fix unfortunately, ya just got to build positive relationships by helping out and by being a decent human being. From there you'll have opportunities to discuss things and if you're well reasoned, people will slowly turn. Like Socialist Alliance has made good relationships with XR here by helping out, but they've not deviated from their radical stance. What's important is creating reach in the community, and then there will be opportunity to educate and agitate. Idk your specific situation so I can't give much advice, but I'm sure there's a way.
>I assume that if it is seen to be too much of an issue/hurdle for organizing, it will be brought up at the next party congress. I don't see ACP/CUDL rebranding too much in the near future.Why can't ya just brand whatever group you organise with and just associate with the ACP/CUDL? Why do you need permission from the party to experiment with your praxis? Diversity of tactics will help find more effective tactics faster than party congress's passing down orders.
anarcho-primitivismAnarcho-Primitivism No.385524
>>385489>Why can't ya just brand whatever group you organise with and just associate with the ACP/CUDL? I thought you were talking about totally rebranding the party itself. I get ya though.
I might look more into XR here in Vic, good luck with it all out west.
eurekaEureka No.385529
>Why can't ya just brand whatever group you organise with and just associate with the ACP/CUDL? Why do you need permission from the party to experiment with your praxis? Diversity of tactics will help find more effective tactics faster than party congress's passing down orders.
I'm a different anon but my experience with my own party activity is that 'diversity of tactics' sounds great but all of the Australian far-left organisations are basically tiny and poor. Even a smallish activity like a literature and propaganda stall/Food Not Bombs/CUDL/Serve the People/APN takes half a dozen people if you want to have it happen with any regularity and sustainability. Most socialist org branches outside maybe Melb and Sydney aren't a lot bigger than this to begin with, and if people split off things are more likely to fall apart than result in a thousand flowers blooming.
In 'soil' with only enough 'nutrients' for one or two flowers at a time, you're incentivised to collectively work out the best flowers and then invest in them. As long as the party congress is genuinely democratic (and SAlt/SAlli/Solidarity/CPA/ACP/Socialist Party are all small enough that realistically the entire party can meet in a single room, so democracy isn't the problem at that level of personal relationships), having that tactical unity and concentration of force can often be a much better bet than every three-person student clique in the party's youth just going off and doing their own thing at random.
No.385964
My mother's got The Cough and it woke me up in the middle of the night. If she dies India will have to be wiped from existence as a reactionary nation.stalinStalin
No.389207
>>382921Are you the retard who thought anarchism was materialism? Fucking hilarious if so
No.393874
>>393869If History had just turned out slightly different (aka the Australian population not being PsyOp'd into thinking he was a better choice for PM then Chifley) then he would be thought of as an abysmal failure.
He literally sold iron to make guns and bullets to Japan because it made his friends money and when Bri'Ian asked him why he did it when they inevitably declared war he was just like "WAIT WHAT I WASN'T MEANT TO BE DOING THAT??? I DONT AGREE WITH THAT SIR!"
He also failed in the only serious diplomatic affair he ever actually had to handle and caused a fucking war to happen (Suez crisis)
eurekaEureka No.393886
>>387124I got the JJ and now I'm getting the Pfizer. People were like "it's still not approved here". uygha as if I gave a fuck. Getting my third jab a few weeks from now.
GIGA VAXXED.
No.395388
>>393869acp should open up a CUDL next to the centre
No.397251
>>375256What’s the coldest major city in Australia? I’ve heard a lot of people say Melbourne or Hobart, but I’ve never seen any scientific evidence on the subject. Whatever that city is is my choice
gorroGorro No.397284
>>397251>but I’ve never seen any scientific evidence on the subject.well dude, just open a historical temperature record. it's not hard.
probably hobart because le down on la map means more antarctic
No.397364
>>397251How hard is it to do a google search on historical average yearly temperatures?
Anyway, the answer is Hobart which is far south enough that they regularly experience the southern lights, followed by Melb which barely dips into negative celsius temperatures sometimes in winter.
As to where is going to be the safest place to be in coming chaotic climate change nobody can really say as so many black swans are emerging & climate studies so hopelessly optimistic and fudged that nobody really knows which direction things are going to go. Until recently people gambled on Canada & Siberia serving as breadbaskets for the world but surprise surprise, while idiot NGO's and lefty groups were focusing on muh floods & rising seas - which in reality is a miniscule threat compared to the more serious shit we're about to go through, climate instability is far, far worse than anybody could have imagined to the point they're experiencing temps in the upper 40c & almost 50c range in both countries.
The reality is nowhere is truly safe. Tasmania broadly is probably the best place to be, followed by vic, although there are so many potential wild cards and what if's that it's not really possible to plan out effectively as individuals where the best spot to be is.
For me the big issue is whether I should remain in rural areas or move to either melb/hobart. It's a question of whether we're going to experience a faster outright collapse into madmax salvage punk world or whether the system can pull together and we're trending towards cyberpunk techno-dystopia (at least for the duration of our lifetimes).
I'm trying to hedge for both but as a rural povo it ain't easy.
jucheJuche No.397375
>>397364I just like cold weather, I’m not a climate doomer
gorroGorro No.397378
>>385964Nah my friend, the Indians are cool. The Yankee virus originated in the US & thus responsibility for the pandemic lay entirely on the American species.
We must demand full reperations for every cent of economic damage from the Yankee goblins, with generous interest. If they refuse to pay, everything north of the Mexican border must be carpet nuked with cobalt salted 200MT thermonuclear weapons with particular focus on fresh water deposits & agricultural land.
jucheJuche No.397685
>>397674lmao he is from Queensland
No.397693
>>397674>One of his classmates from high school, Jack, says Tor lacked social skills and "didn't know how to talk to people correctly … didn't really understand how people work."What's up with autismos turning into fascists lmao
No.397772
>>397251>>397364Don't move to Tasmania, it's already too expensive for locals.
t.local
No.397774
>>397678Looks interesting, but no idea where to get a copy :\
No.397800
>>397774have you tried b-ok.global? there's also booko if you want to get a physical copy
No.397903
>>397841Hardcore covid deniers are useful idiots for capital & in some cases outright CIA assets, being said I get the feeling more and more people turning up are workers shitscared of being reduced to poverty by our retarded comprador CIA occupation force masquerading as the "Australian federal government".
However real a danger covid is, siding with the police state against people who are terrified for legitimate, concrete material reasons (however mislead they are on the reality of the virus specifically) is terrible optics. The correct position for communists is to absolute reject & oppose repression and critically support the protests until the government provides a guaranteed income, universal for the duration of the pandemic, a rent moratorium along with federally funded bailout for landouts (fuck landlords but fuck making proles pay that shit off) & a solid program for guaranteed job security afterwards.
If the "federal government" cannot guarantee that NOBODY will fall through the cracks as a result of their ineptitude, resistance, however misguided, is entirely justified.
jucheJuche No.397970
>>397841>>397903They were not expecting the protests to be this big. Expect more protests because this has inspired them
and it will make the covid situation worse forcing longer lockdowns.It's not a march for covid-denialism. It's a march for freedom. If leftists want to join in, do so with masks and social distancing. You don't need to buy into the conspiracy theories to support protesting against lockdowns.
No.397997
>>397970its naive to think this wasn't an asio supported protest
No.398001
>>397903Fuck it, let's start an argument: are anti-covid protests (directly or indirectly) praxis?
>useful case study for protest tactics>anti-lib arguments>'le BLM was better behaved'>voluntary eugenics No.398078
>>397800It was there :D
Thank you m8y
No.398092
>>397970>>397903The people's anti-lockdown march
eurekaEureka No.398107
Whats the story behind AUSCP and CPA split?
No.398131
>>398107here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianSocialism/comments/dk3jbx/can_someone_explain_the_cpaacp_split_for_me/>TL;DR: youth faction of the CPA ran a Sydney soup kitchen that was blocked by many old heads in the CPA. An incident happened when these two forces confronted each other (both sides say they were assaulted). For the AUSCP, this was the straw that broke the camels back, so they spilt. For people who remain in the CPA, this was a rouge faction who flouted democratic centralism inevitably breaking off from the party.I'm sure there are some acp-anons floating around here that can give their own insight.
No.398221
>>398001>useful case study for protest tacticsWhat we have learnt from this protest is wear a mask and don't post about it on social fucking media. In the past, the cops only arrested organisers and shit-stirers. This time around they will arrest almost everyone. The police minister says they expect 3500 people to be charged.
The cops are going through social media like they did for the Capitol Hill Riot. The reason they didn't use these tools against BLM or other protests is because this is the first protest in recent times in Australia that directly threatens the legitimacy of the state.
Anti-covid protests are praxis in that we should egg them on because it's a fight between our enemies and we want them to hurt each other as much as possible. It's bad optics and stupid for leftists to associate with anti-covid protests though.
>>397982That photo was just good timing.
https://twitter.com/Makksproduction/status/1418850032212660225?s=20accelerationAcceleration No.400542
>>398221lol at the plain clothes coppers getting people to back away
every time
No.402798
>W.W.F estimates 75% in Australian Koala population, 25% reduction in their viable habitat JUST WITHIN LAST THREE YEARS SINCE THE START OF THE 2019 BUSHFIRE SEASON.
>Australian government has lobbied the UN to postpone (see: kill) a motion to declare the great barrier reef to be critically in danger due to climate change.
>Retardo bizarro hippy NazBol rally in Sydney and Melbourne being handled so poorly by police has emboldened schizos, will probably cause more mass spreading events.
<ASX GREEN LINE STILL UP!eurekaEureka
No.402800
>>402798*
>75% drop in koala populationeurekaEureka No.406342
>>406331to quote a normalfag: Labor don't have anyone to run against him.
How come western politicians suck at their job? Obama was great at being a president, I hate him but he was someone a normalfag could find likable and not demented or shrivelled.
No.406986
>>406342>How come western politicians suck at their job? Because they come exactly as that, politicians.
No one wants to vote for pollies, so they vote for pollies who pretend to be Fair Dinkum.
No.407254
>>406342>How come western politicians suck at their job?It makes them easier to get rid of, hence more vulnerable and easier to control.
No.408731
>>406342Degeneracy of the bourgeoisie, exhaustion of their class energy. The strata which normally throw up political leaders are EXHAUSTED. For the really capable ones, the money's better in finance. For the really creative ones, they can use their status to go into the culture industry – but look, they're damn near exhausted there, consider the infinite Marvel-Starwars-Netflix treadmill where nobody is making any new culture either, they're just turning the handle endlessly. The same phenomenon repeats itself at every level, in Australia, America, the UK (Boris Johnson ffs). The bourgeoisie is exhausted, out of ideas, done with doing.
Trotsky writes about Kerensky, the bourgeois Russian leader post-February revolution, in his History of the Russian Revolution (I'm not a Trot but it's a good writeup):
>A good deal has been written to the effect that subsequent misfortunes, including the advent of the Bolsheviks, might have been avoided if instead of Kerensky a man of clear head and strong character had stood at the helm of the government. It is indubitable that Kerensky possessed neither of these attributes. But the question is, why did certain well defined social classes find themselves obliged to lift up just this man, Kerensky, upon their shoulders? … If Kerensky had possessed clear thoughts and a strong will, he would have been completely unfit for his historic rôle. No.408888
We're all going to die in two years time! My last words will be: "fuck china for giving the world covid!"
No.408892
>>408888Cringe GET.
I hope you die of COVID.
No.408896
>>408888bow before the red dragon kangaroouyghur
No.408900
>>408888>fuck china for giving the world covidI'll just say "FUCK TRUMP FOR DESTROYING AMERICA THROUGHT COVID", "FUCK MODI FOR IGNORING COVID"
Had Li Wenliang been free they would suffer no problems tbh. No.408984
Hopefully all the small businesses get destroyed
No.410095
This Delta is a Modi virus not a Chinese virus.
No.410261
>>408984But then we'll just have fuckin oligarchs :\
No.410467
>>410261We already have fuckin' oligarchs. They're called the Federal government.
eurekaEureka No.410553
>>402798>Retardo bizarro hippy NazBol rally in Sydney and MelbourneWhat the fuck are you talking about? Go back to high school.
No.410559
>>408900>Had Li Wenliang been free they would suffer no problems tbh.Can't tell if bait but this guy literally had no consequence on anything. Posting (technically false) information 12 hours earlier than when the news had started to report it wouldn't have done shit. "Li Wenliang = whistleblower" is laughable CIA-tier propaganda.
No.410563
>>410459gdy
me
but only contract
No.410564
>>410553It sounds like a chatbot that was trained on 4chan buzzwords malfunctioning.
eurekaEureka No.411632
>>410563I work for Kmart while studying part time
No.411794
How do you get a job in Australia?
>>411714Yes, the Whirlpool forums, where everybody makes $250k/year.
No.411893
>>411794fucken beats me. i just graduated with a high gpa and good experience, but im getting kicked back everywhere
No.411922
>>411893Are you a white male? That might be your problem.
No.412100
>>411893>>411922It appears you will have to become transhumanist
No.412765
>>353583Ironic hearing a juchetard accuse others of LARP. The labor party and the institutionalised union movement attached to it were never socialist or revolutionary nor ever claimed to be. They made some progress in the class struggle very early on (such as the 8 hour day, which btw has been very much exaggerated – in fact it only covered a few narrow skilled or artisinal trades, and most ordinary wage labourers were still working for 10 hours a day or more for years afterwards), but as soon as labor got into power (1904) they introduced shit like compulsory arbitration, limiting the right to strike, and turning the unions from organs of class struggle into mediators of class collaboration. So it doesn't convince me when you say 'white nationalism is good actually, because laborites in 1890 were white nationalists'. Because laborites in 1890 were also liberal class collaborationists. And to reduce all the history of the different socialist and left-wing movements into just the large unions and the labor party is an insult to the actual communists and socialists that existed in those times. Also, recognising the adverse affects of immigration on wages etc does not have anything to do with being nationalist or 'pro-white'.
read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book No.412772
>>412428
>G*ugh Wh*tlam
why censored? blackpill me on him
No.412776
>>412765well said, the juchetard needs to brush up on his history and reevaluate his dogshit analysis
No.412790
>>412428
whinging pom alert: you say this, but your immigration categories are the shittest i.e. most strongly skill based in the anglosphere. it's unironically easier to get into NZ than to Australia if you don't have any actual skills. (NZ uses their immigration system as a subsidy for their unis, so if you got memed into doing something like a History degree you can always just do your masters there to make up the points you lost for not being a world leading mathematician or farmer with 5+ years of experience. Canada seemingly just lets everyone in. Britain's system seems similarly structured to Australia's, but with far more job categories for essentially unskilled humanities graduates.)
No.412889
>>412765>>412776Where was I defending the labor party or claiming they were anything other than neolibs? I said pretty clearly that I'm going to waste my vote. If I did live in a marginal urban seat I'd probably prefer them, yes, although that is not out of sympathy of respect for them but for three reasons, one being their policy on China is less suicidal, two their pandemic response will likely be more competent and the final reason being their policy on the environment and particularly the Murray darling basin is better than outright CIA backed mafia rule which currently poses a near existential threat.
>So it doesn't convince me when you say 'white nationalism is good actually, because laborites in 1890 were white nationalists'Never said this or anything remotely similar. You're just making stuff up.
>And to reduce all the history of the different socialist and left-wing movements into just the large unions and the labor party is an insult to the actual communists and socialists that existed in those times.Where did I do this? Can you show me where I supposedly claimed that the labor party ever represented socialism?
>Also, recognising the adverse affects of immigration on wages etc does not have anything to do with being nationalist or 'pro-white'.Nationalism =/= White nationalism and is in fact an antithesis of it in Australia. If we seriously want to combat white nationalism we need to construct a strong national identity separated from race, distinct from & not linked to angloism or Yankee-worship. I've been pretty clear about this in other threads, so again you're just making shit up for god knows what reason.
tl;dr -
You're either a troll or some dishonest drama-seeking retard. Either self-criticize & suck my Hwasong in repentance or deport yourself to Yankeestan so a human being with a functional brain can take your place.
Edit: Repost because relevant response pic
jucheJuche No.412893
>>412889>Nationalism =/= White nationalismBased, anybody who is opposed to "nationalism" and "national identity" by default is retarded
No.412904
>>412889Think there was some shit imitating you who got their posts baleted m8
tankieTankie No.412920
>>412893>Based, anybody who is opposed to "nationalism" and "national identity" by default is retardedThey're just not thinking and stuck in a weird ultra-leftist mentality.
Lack of common groundedness & glue holding a people together will inevitability lead to rising of tribalism or Indian style communalism, whether it is around race/ethnicity, religion, consumer identity or whatever else.
If you want to avoid people chimping out over how un-melanated or melanated their genitals are then you have to be able to present a stronger, more unifying & more materially grounded form of common identity which solidarity can form around.
>>412904Success breeds jealousy. If this is the case then bookanon is preemptively forgiven. Let none say that I am not a merciful despot.
jucheJuche No.415764
>>412889not you. someone else. this is why being a tripfag, with an ubiquitous identifier no less, is retarded - you think everyone is talking about you. such is the folly of the tripfag who wants to feel special on an anonymous platform.
No.417660
>>417637Scovid will beat Sleepy Anthony
I wonder how long they can keep the bubble going. However, the longer they delay the bursting the more devastating it will be
No.417722
>>412779could this be it for tassie?
No.419575
We made it into TYBNA's headline!
>>413140Australia: 7,000 Toll transport workers threaten industrial action>Toll’s proposed EA would see all new drivers employed on part-time rates just above the award minimum—more than 10 percent below the current agreement—with reduced overtime entitlements and employer superannuation contributions of no more than 10 percent.https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/31/toll-j31.htmlcouncil_communismCouncil Communism No.420762
>>353594I would like to get into it , but I live in a rented house and the lease is expiring in a few months.
No.422307
>>365796>the solution of suburban food forests and what we need to do to make it realityHow's this going? I wanna get the ACP/CUDL to put some effort that sorta shit.
eurekaEureka No.426063
>>417637FUCKING CHRIST.
Do these people literally wake up each day and think "How can we make LJ Hooker and Ray White more money?"
How is "giving a grant" to someone when that person is immediately expected to effectively give the money to porkies not just a bailout?
eurekaEureka No.426212
>>426040well
that fucking suck
Time to #squataustralia
No.428746
==Australians who live overseas will no longer be granted an automatic exemption from the ongoing international travel ban, meaning they will have to submit a "compelling reason" to return to their home.==
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-06/covid-rules-australians-overseas-visit-home-change-exemption/100356366How the fuck is this legal?
No.428786
>>428746just don't be overseas retard
No.428843
>>425470Well my wife and I are in the same union, so, I conclude, yes.
No.428847
>>428746based anti expat aktion
No.428925
>>428746I know it sounds bourgeois as fuck to say this - but all I want in my life is to travel. The obsessive desire to put as many barriers as possible on people leaving the country has been a soul rending experience.
No.428948
>>428925>I know it sounds bourgeois as fuck to say thisIt does indeed.
No.429011
>>428746Ahem. This is a reminder that under International law, every nation has the right to prevent its citizens leaving.
>>428925As I say to everyone who wants to go overseas holiday, you can travel within Australia! Yay!
No.430137
fug :DD
No.430678
>>429042Can't travel interstate, so we can't do that mate.
No.430702
>>428948No it doesn't, what the fuck are you talking about
No.430717
Are you guys going to fill out the census? Any lefty strategy to filling it out?
No.431031
>>430717Answer it as if you're a total normie. You have nothing to gain by showing your power level to the govt.
Was on the fence about the religious thing (schizo esoteric Stalinist spiritual but not religious) but those pretentious new-atheist urbanite hipster-looking faggots in that "answer no religion" video making the rounds pissed me off so I'm going to describe myself as Anglican or Catholic just to spite them.
jucheJuche No.433753
>>430717>>431031Say you're Muslim to make the right uneasy.
No.433863
>>433753Also a good choice, yes.
jucheJuche No.435755
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbXX6goVq0EPretty interesting series of discussions, I still don't know who Robbie Barwick is or what the "Australian Citizens Party" is but this guy seems like your pretty standard anti-corruption crowd. You don't have to be a dengist to be anti-war. I think this issue is pressing for us particularly because in the midst of a (now mishandled) pandemic, when companies are sucking up millions via JobKeeper with impunity (
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/10/centrelink-orders-jobkeeper-recipients-to-pay-back-32m-while-profitable-businesses-allowed-to-keep-funds), the govt. sees fit to bump up military spending ("$44.6 billion…That’s an increase on 2020–21 of 6.1% in nominal terms and 4.1% in real terms."
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/defence-budget-climbs-to-44-6-billion/). As the 2022 elections come around the corner we can expect the usual spike in political consciousness, there is a possibility of an opportunistic tack into aggressive cold-war politics. We seem to be posing ourselves as the vanguard of a war against China, all it takes is a flash, a misstep, and an ambiguous event (like the Gulf of Tonkin) to get things truly started. It's looking like Interesting times ahead.
No.436273
>>430702To say "all I want in my life is to travel" is a very bourgeois sort of a goal. For a start, it is individualist hedonism, the idea of a life of personal enjoyment and travel. Like if you say "all I want in my life is to live on a private yacht with cocaine and supermodels".
Secondly, it also requires the kind of life where you have the money to spend on constant travel. While it is true that some strata of well-off Australian proletarians have become accustomed to affording travel in the last few decades, if only to Bali, it's still quite an expensive game if "all you want in life" is to travel.
Finally, if you're just constantly travelling for personal pleasure, not only is it very carbon intensive (international flights, cruise ships), and liable to rely upon exploited labour (SE asia, poorer bits of Europe) to generate a lot of the comfort of travel, but it also pretty well precludes you from getting involved with things as an activist.
It's different if you want to travel to see some interesting places, or to learn something about the world, or meet new people, or to engage in struggle (like an old IWW organiser or Bolshevik or whatever). Obviously there's also occupational travel like as a merchant seaman, or just plain poor travelling (I'm not saying that it's bourgeois to be a refugee on a boat).
I'm not against travel for any of those reasons. I am just saying that "all I want in my life is to travel" is a bourgeois sort of a goal, and very popular among young poshos, North Shore princesses who ~jUsT wAnT tO tRaVeL~, gap-year-in-Europe-before-Sydney-Uni kids, et hoc genus.
No.436380
>>435755>I still don't know who Robbie Barwick is or what the "Australian Citizens Party" isThey're followers of Lyndon LaRouche, an American conspiracy theorist and Presidential candidate. Coincidentally, leftypol has been discussing him.
>>420522>>410194 No.436471
if I don't get a job soon I'm unironically going to start dabbling in heroin
No.436500
>>436471noo your too sexy haha
No.437958
> The Australian law of business structures including companies, when summarised, is at least 15 A4 pages for a mere overview, a summary of a summary.
Imagine being a fool like me who thought he could "save the world" by studying law.read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book
No.438052
>>436273> For a start, it is individualist hedonism, the idea of a life of personal enjoyment and travel.So I should self flagellate instead?
> it also requires the kind of life where you have the money to spend on constant travel.I'd like to work while I travel to fund myself, not sure why you didn't think of this.
>carbon intensive There are methods to reduce this, i.e. not flying everywhere.
>exploited labour Ah ok I'll not spend my money in those countries then, that will be better for them.
>precludes you from getting involved with things as an activist.WAKE ME UP WHEN THERE IS A LEFT WING MOVEMENT IN THIS COUNTRY WORTH JOINING
>I am just saying that "all I want in my life is to travel" is a bourgeois sort of a goal, and very popular among young poshos, North Shore princesses who ~jUsT wAnT tO tRaVeL~, gap-year-in-Europe-before-Sydney-Uni kids, et hoc genus.And there is the crux of this - you assume I just want to be an instagram whore who splashes money on frivilous things in poor countries. You clearly haven't spent much time actually travelling.
No.438217
Radelaide cunt here checking out leftpol,
>>353583am I right in assuming your all university marxists, sex workers and NEETs?
piratePirate No.438516
>>438505i keep on seeing someone in a suit and tie on the FB posts, must be maupin-pilled
No.438547
>>438217I am university educated but graduated a long time ago. I am opposed to sex work. I have a job.
No.438551
>>438217>am I right in assuming your all university marxists, sex workers and NEETs?Yes I am all 3
No.438630
>>438551You say that ironically, but it's actually true.
No.438643
>>438551No. I am a high income anti-capitalist. These losers need to realise the 20th century is over.
>>438505Whats the long game? Helping the needy is excellent but does it need to be under a heckin hammer and sickle? Where will you go? Are these the same tone deaf children that showed up at anzac day with soviet flags? Who are you going to convince except other extremely online loser children
No.438722
>>438217>university marxistsNope, povo family, couldn't afford to go to uni
>sex workersnope, married + sex industry is degenerate, legit sympathy for prole prostituted people but onlyfans sex industry labour aristocrats get the wall.
>NEETSremote rural minimum wage household, not much better but there aren't a whole lot of jobs out in woop woop.
>>438649<Not sure if radlib or turd positionist For all their screeching about muh red browns and nazbols and evil tankies, most urbanite pety bourg student "Marxists" are really just preaching a kind of vulgar third positionism. I'd rather deal with an outright well read & well intentioned antifascist third poz who knows what he is talking about & has compatible short-medium term politics (ie not fixated on muh racial politics mindrot, pro-economic protectionism & populism, anti-interventionism/anti-imperialism) than some weird uni of Melbourne BPD chick with neon hair & 7 figure income parents screeching rebranded third poz, Americentric Sakaist racialist garbage about how poor rural white people & Christfags are responsible for all of our problems and without a shred of irony calling xirs vulgar, confused idealism "diama/materialism".
No.440301
Is there gonna be a federal election this year?
No.440311
>>440301its looking like next year - I'm guessing they're going to push it all the way back to September
Here's Anthony Green's analysis from June?:
https://antonygreen.com.au/when-can-the-next-federal-election-be-held/ No.440873
>>438217>universityYear 9 dropout here
>sex workers and NEETs?Nope. Full time sanding and painting metals.
eurekaEureka No.440875
>>438643>Whats the long game?The idea as far as I understand it is to build dual power in the long run and in the short term, to get lefties in general out and doing something that isn't protesting and that exposes them to the very people that they claim to support, the worst off under capitalist society.
eurekaEureka No.440894
>>366970A lot of Permaculture is bullshit hippy "muh balance" stuff though.
Food forests are basically nonsense since forests don't natually exist in harmony with eachother and never prioritise food production but cellulose. You could never streamline Permaculture as well into large scale food production.
http://fafdl.org/blog/2017/05/16/permaculture-and-the-edible-forest-garden-a-critical-analysis/Great projects for small scale, home gardens though. Way better doing permaculture than stupid ass gardens and lawns people have now.
No.440909
>>440311They won't go past May, otherwise we'd need an election for both the house and the senate on different dates.
No.440913
>>438722>onlyfans sex industry labour aristocrats get the wallgood god what dumb takes
No.442600
>victoria to decriminalise sex work
Labor fucks up again
No.442833
>>440311Will ACP get off their arse in time to actually run in this election?
No.442921
>>438217Nah, wrong. I've been working since I was 17, and while I did STEM at Uni I actually wasn't a Marxist until after I graduated and started working fulltime. Parents were povo and I grew up in housing commission and on and off the dole (Dad got laid off a stable job under Keating and took half a decade to get back into stable work). At 30, I'm a union delegate fighting management in small-fry day-by-day bullshit fights in the trenches.
>You could never streamline Permaculture as well into large scale food production.Yeah I dunno man, Cuba seems to have done a good enough job.
Definitely, permaculture in temperate climates won't produce the fantasy of the food forest, but that's not all permaculture is. Like anything, you've gotta be materialist and dialectical in your analysis. I've seen actual food forest gardening in north Queensland work well, but most of the Permaculture II sourcebook is just "permaculture in other climates" with a bunch of ideas.
'Muh balance' stuff is inevitable from people who have only half understood dialectical materialist ecology. But you could uncharitably attack Marx's call for the return of manure to the soil as 'muh balance' garbage too, and that'd be underrating Marx as ecologist.
No.442929
>>365827So the shanks case today shows literally, politicians can just fucking lie and parliamentary privilege means calling them out on it is basically a fucking crime.
No.442937
Man, Australia is just so depressing when it comes to politics. Population that literally only gives a single fuck about housing prices, the most propagandistic media in the western world, crazy levels of authoritarian bullshit that even the UK Tories refuse to float, politicians that all sound like fucking tired, lazy school teachers talking down to children.
Living in Eurofag land now, it really is fucking crazy how stagnant Australia is, I know when I return to Australia in 2025 or whenever my Visa ends, everything will be exactly the fucking same just with even more bullshit authortiarian nanny-state garbage.
What the fuck is it with Australian's and their safety-fetishism as well? Don't Australian's see how this results in Australia becoming a fucking sterile boring nanny-state?
No.442940
>>442937My personal view on the safety culture is that at some point (Whitlam and onwards), capitalism realise that it needed to take safety seriously to legitimate itself. It was presented with two options: let the unions and workers determine how to manage safety at work in a democratic bottom-up manner, or, implement safety rules as a top-down absolutism. Realising that democracy and bottom-up control was non-feasible, Australia's capitalist class decided that the best way forward was an iron cage of total paternalistic safetyism. Once implemented, the safetyism leaked out into the rest of our society, and here we are.
No.442952
>>442940This is probably the correct take and makes a lot of sense as to the Government taking the role away from the Unions to keep workplaces safe, and it's so fucking tedious. It's actually crazy that you can't even buy like, Nerf Blaster toys because of literal automatic firearm laws, or ride a bike without a helmet, or have a beer in the park without threat of fine and all your internet history is completely open to be read by basically any Government department and affiliate, hell according to statistics, Australian police literally bug peoples phones and read their private shit more than any other country in the developed world, and this is a country of only 20 million people.
Paternalistic is really the right word as well. When they did the lockout laws shit, they literally talked about "protecting our children", even though lockout laws only ever affected full tax paying, voting, adults.
>"you wanna make sure you’ve got a government in action that’s really thinking about what we can do to keep kids as safe as possible and also send the right message.”Fucking mask off completely to how the average politician sees the average citizen.
No.442958
>>442952https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iszk8qm0Xx0>We started out a colony, do they think we're a colony yet?[spoiler]p.s. yes they do[/spoiler]
No.443001
>>442929>Shanks caseAustardia has no human rights!
No.443020
>>442921Tip for being a good delegate please
I just want to help, but I feel so weak…
No.443026
>>442940>>442952How would we remove said suffocating to-down safety without that immediately being hijacked?
No.443035
>>443020Comr8, there's a lot I can say but fuck all that's master-key magisterial advice. We're snookered, we've got fuck all power legally, we've got fuck-all power industrially, and we can't strike (both legally anywhere and actually in most workplaces outside the MUA waterfront and some CFMEU construction sites).
One piece of advice is to work out how to collaborate with the boss for a win-win deal. This is OBVIOUS class collaborationism. However, never forget your Lenin. When weak, negotiate; when strong, attack. We're weak at the moment, so negotiation is one of our best tools.
One thing I've found so far is that good (as in friendly, nice, humanistic) managers tend to read their law and policy most effectively. Despite being managers, these are often people who can reasonably be bargained with. Conversely, the managers who try to fuck people hardest for external (as in sociopathic and personality conflict reasons) tend to be the ones least familiar with the actual letter of the law, Fair Work precdent, and internal company policy where it exists.This means they'll often be the ones easiest to scare down when you can show them that they have made up their own story while ignoring the rules.
I could talk about insights on this all day, so if you're still interested in anything please let me know.
>>443026The change between the pre-2011 WHS law and the current one is actually a pretty good one (things like WHS reps being legally indemnified from having to do anything, so that the boss can't say "haha hah you're an elected WHS rep, here is 15 hours worth of work per day to keep you busy, that'll learn you, you bolshy fucker"). Further than that it comes down to the basic fact that you can't overhaul capitalism without making more fundamental changes. There are no easy answers, sadly.
No.444183
ausump
No.444343
The Libs 'expanding the lockdown and tightening restrictions' but in reality all that means is upping the fines given to proles and making the whole state follow the obviously not working (due to them being to lenient) restrictions is basically following in Macrons footsteps of trying to turn Covid into some sort of poor tax
No.444349
>>444343>wow another person traveled interstate despite lockdownswhy does it keep happening
every week
No.444356
>>444349I think it's some strange sense of entitlement that some people have thinking they can bypass lockdowns because they want to get laid etc.
As someone who's been cock-blocked by Corona, I can tell you, it's a shit feeling to have, but its no excuse for people to break quarantine/lockdown for the sake of cooming.
No.445609
>>443035>I could talk about insights on this all day, so if you're still interested in anything please let me know.I guess I'm interested to hear your (obviously anonymised) personal experiences.
I've been getting on the "good side" of a few local managers for exactly those reasons, we are just not currently in a position to gain much by taking action.
But then at a recent meeting, I was called a collaborator and that I shouldn't be doing it :\
No.445610
>>444356>As someone who's been cock-blocked by Corona, I can tell you, it's a shit feeling to have, but its no excuse for people to break quarantine/lockdown for the sake of cooming.You can coom in me comrade
No.445789
>burgers, brits both leave afghanistan.
>Kabul fucking surrounded.
>Our men are still the last ones out to save our heckin collaboratorinos!!!!
ADF
Buck status :
Broken.
No.446009
>>445964Literal trash to distract the masses from the ACTUAL Fascists that run the country. A handful of online spergs getting caught up in some ASIO honeypot is utterly meaningless.
No.446034
>>445964>Two (2/22) proles>rest are petites>leader is unemployed wankjobRope is any day now, fellow aesthites.
No.447613
>>445964idk why the media is suddenly so obsessed with internet neo Nazis when they've been a thing for at least 6+ years
No.447748
>>353583which communist party should i join? there seems to be some confusion currently vetween the CPA and ACP and honestly im lost
No.448851
>>447748Join both, then quit the one that you find shit.
No.448977
>>444376I don't like him but the one thing I can't fault Albanese for is being authentically working class in his origins and taste. His mouth is fucked up because no childhood dental work, so his speech is fucked up, and I genuinely believe that he sits down to a meal of meat and literally two boiled/steamed veg every night. Look at that meat, that is Coles butcher on special at best. The only thing missing in that picture is the goonbag holding the rest of his wine.
>>447748Anything but SAlt or SEP megatrots.
No.449002
>>448977cunt do you know anything about PR? or do you think we don't know anything about PR? you must be a glowie or some poor ALP intern doing the rounds on imageboards
No.449134
>>449002Sure, and I'm saying that Albo isn't good at PR. If he was good at PR he wouldn't sound like a mong gargling marbles through teeth he stole off a pom.
No.449210
>>449134Delusional glowie. You thought I didn't know that his social media is carefully curated by pixie cut lesbians each being paid 120k/year.
No.449306
Another adealide anon, genuinely shocked at how many of us are in this thread.
No.449952
>>449330
I'm the guy who made the original Albo poverty food and teeth comments. Like you, I was talking from experience. I've had enough discount and food bank rissoles and pure-tomato-paste-on-pasta to last me a lifetime. My teeth are healthy enough (thanks fluoride!) but they're absolutely fucked cosmetically and I saw a dentist for the first time after I was 18. As I grew up, people sometimes ask me why I didn't get braces, as if it was an eccentric decision I'd made for obscure personal reasons.
It's plausible that paranoid anon's theory about Albo only posting the food pic on the advice of "pixie cut lesbians" (as if that matters), but his teeth are pure proletarian
No.450032
>>449952>WAOW HE HAS FUCKED UP TEETH HE'S JUST LIKE ME!!!and yet, still no plans to integrate dental into medicare care. curious.
No.450096
>>450032I said I didn't like him and I'm not an ALP member. What more you want? I just think the "hello fellow humans" criticism of him for povo anglo food was a shit meme. He's not Joe Biden, he's not Bill Shorten, he's not even Bob Hawke. He's a class-collaborationist sellout labour aristocrat now, but he had to climb there using the greasy ladder of a party that was custom-built to enable this kind of climbing. Now knock it off with the Aimee Terese gimmick.
No.450178
>>450096>I said I didn't like him and I'm not an ALP member. What more you want?and I should just take that at face value? right before you go and slobber all over his knob? lmao get a grip retard and have some respect for the people you're trying to psyop.
>He's a class-collaborationist sellout labour aristocrat now, but he had to climb there using the greasy ladder of a party that was custom-built to enable this kind of climbing.Some nice damage control, but he's more than just a labour aristocrat.
>Now knock it off with the Aimee Terese gimmick.I don't know who the fuck this is and I certainly don't care either. kys.
No.450193
>>450178>Some nice damage control, but he's more than just a labour aristocrat.Yeah, he's a Labor aristocrat
*ba dum tss*
No.453954
I love how the second that Covid briefly turned Labour into a valuable commodity again and Nationals Kulaks realised that Mitch and Richard wanted to be paid 20$ an hour to pick grapes they turned into open borders NeoLiberals who want us to be "Big Australia" and have a massive underclass of 80 million slave labourers.
The Labor shills on all the nominally 'left-wing' Australian internet spaces like r/Australia aren't much better.
I tried to make the case to someone that this is clear proof that there is a genuine economic rational for restricting economic migration and that Labor would GAIN not LOSE support by coming out against NeoLiberal migration policy. and they unironically used the Taco truck argument but for "If we have immigrants where would we get foreign food???" and then pointed out that without chinese NeoNEPmen the housing market would collapse so we "sorta just have keep doing it at this point"
No.453965
>>453954migration is okay though
just has to be at an okay level
and skilled migrants need to be paid more
No.454077
>>447748ACP is ML but a bit more stringent with their recruitment, CPA is filled with dengists. take your pick.
No.454091
Has anyone ever actually met anyone from the ACP(ML) or seen any presence of them in public?
No.454276
>>454254Perhaps you could spread a rumour on Boomerbook that the CPA accountants are secretly the communist party
No.456925
So, Australia's approach to Covid-19 is basically unraveling isn't it? The national approach, initially led by the states but eventually with the feds coming along kicking and screaming, has been to lockdown to stop the spread and maintain "covid zero".
But now NSW has clearly lost control as the one state government that didn't care about coivd zero, barely trying, now insisting the only way out is vaccination.
In the past month or two the attitude from the other states is to maintain covid zero. Now with repeated leaks out of NSW it seems that public sentiment is shifting. Compliance with lockdowns is at the lowest its ever been. I'm not just talking about protesters, but also just people not taking it as seriously generally.
Call me crazy but I think by the end of the year, even if this magic 80% target isn't reached, people will still stop listening to these rules entirely.
No.456940
>>456925I would argue that it would be in the Libs electoral interest to push for vaccinations but it seems like they're doing everything to avoid doing anything. Most importantly, if they wanted lockdowns to work, then they would have to pay people to stay inside. But they aren't doing that of course, so now there seems to be a vicious divide being formed between those who comply and those that don't. It should be said that there are many factors kicking those that don't comply along the garden trail - reactionary media, grifters popping up like wack-a-mole on social media, and a wholesale capitalisation of people in despair. Look at some of the scenes of the various protests, for example. There were no concrete demands made ("we are coming together to remind the govt. that man-made legal fictions are meant to serve the people. Not enslave them." was one of their "aims" of the protest
talk about post-modernism) - the entire protest was a mix between a social media event and an outlet to express anger. The 'Stalinist' police were being bashed to the tune of that baby-boomer darling Twisted Sister. It will be interesting to see what will happen in the next year or so. Morrison is doing nothing and encouraging amnesia as much as he can, and Albo doesn't do anything too drastic lest he screw the pooch like Shorten did.
>>456922whoever came up with "cold war over hot meals" needs a raise
No.456991
>>456940I'm probably going to get shit on for this, but I actually have no empathy for the protestors. I certainly have empathy for everyone doing it tough financially, but that wasn't the demand, it was "open up". People are fed up with Covid and it was really just a big tantrum by people who spend too much time online, with their thoughts bouncing around the echo chamber until they explode.
It really doesn't help that Covid is the ultimate stress test of trust in "experts" and institutions. Its obvious that no one in government really, truly, knows what to do. Neither does the media. Jack, the guy screaming about 5G on the street corner knows as much as these idiots. Its pretty dystopian.
No.457030
>>456925 >>456991 Austardia is on its way to joining USA and EU as failing nations which cannot control the spread of the disease. Gladbags Bin Chicken is a Trojan horse who wrecked the whole nation and also Nyuh Zulland.
Even at these early stages, underfunded healthcare system already under strain. Long term damage will be done to the healthcare system. Fewer locals will want to become medical workers and there will be greater dependence on desperate foreign workers.
No.457039
>>457030> greater dependence on desperate foreign workers.While simultaneously trying to stop brain drain through the most blunt means possible.
No.457068
>>456922>But she has rejected that, saying her intention is to reduce violence and anti-social behaviour.Socialism is anti-social now.
>rice.jpgTHE CHINESE ARE BRAINWASHING OUR KIDS
No.457071
>>457068there's the Maupin-pilled motherfucker
No.457077
>>456922Doing some more digging on the Lois Boswell dipshit.
>“This MayDay poster, we got given it as a wedding present, so that’s 28 years ago,” says Lois.https://citymag.indaily.com.au/habits/home/sydney-siders-sturt-street/She has also been a Labor candidate. A "leftist" that hates the USSR, hmmmmmm, Trot perhaps? Or just plain sucdem?
<Oh shittl;dr someone who was living with her and her husband was murdered inside their home.
https://indaily.com.au/news/local/2019/09/25/a-great-life-tragically-lost-public-service-veteran-pays-tribute-to-stabbing-victim/ No.457087
>>457077>A "leftist" that hates the USSR, hmmmmmm, Trot perhaps? Or just plain sucdem?jfc I'm basically sucdem and even I can tell you Labor is just capitalist liberalism in practice. Progressive liberal at best and not even that half the time. A Trot mad at communists? Are you kidding me?
>tl;dr someone who was living with her and her husband was murdered inside their home.oh shi
No.457090
>>457062I need to spend less time on the internet, I was absolutely seething at that virtue signaling about "muh USSR bad"
No.457102
>>456922>doesn't own a Tiger rice cooker with random flowers on it or a Zojirushi that has like a thousand buttons.Disgracing your ancestors, Casey.
>>457058The Chifley Memorial People's Bank has a nice ring to it. Nice fuck you to conservatives and no Labor-type could knock it with that name.
No.458032
Has anyone here under 40 in Victoria had any luck with getting a pfizer booking? At the end of my rope with the bureaucratic nonsense.
No.458204
>>458032According to the Fake News MSM it is available to everyone in that age group
I wonder if the proposed "living with the virus"/ free spread policy will result in so-called worker shortages like in Burgerland and Bongland after many workers become crippled or dead. Will they refuse to raise wages and just seethe to the Fake News MSM about a worker shortage?
No.458279
>>458032Completely unsurprising that the Austardia computer booking system would be a complete mess.
No.458652
This video is Labor shilling LibCringe as always but the comments are sorta interesting.
The amount of people with horror stories of tradies just outright admitting to them that all these new developments are built shit and will basically suffer the fate of the Sampoong department store and pancake if they ever flood or if we by chance have an earthquake is concerning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmWlSfswRzI No.458666
>>458032I haven't bothered to try to get one for myself yet and probably wont bother unless it gets mandated in my LGA for work.
My mother in her late 50s booked for her phizer shot and went to the clinic.
<"Sorry all out…we dont know why the site said we were open for bookings!" No.458699
>>457030>>457039Yeah, we're pretty fucked eh?
No.460169
Was initially opposed to the truckers’ strike planned this week, but seems less reactionary and retarded then I previously thought.
Looks to be supported by the TWU, and looks to be a strike centred on real demands rather than the lunatic anti-lockdown faction’s ‘pseudo’ demands.
https://www.twu.com.au/companies/toll/toll-protected-action/Thoughts?
No.460239
>>460169For the comfy smug liberals lurking and scoffing at the industrial action let me explain what lack of worker protections mean for you in your bubble; lack of worker protections for truck drivers means more sleep deprived truck drivers on methamphetamines sharing the road w/ you
On a seperate note a reality check on the 'Rona
https://theconversation.com/covid-cases-are-rising-in-highly-vaccinated-israel-but-it-doesnt-mean-australia-should-give-up-and-live-with-the-virus-166404The politics and world affairs commentary on The Conversation damages its credibility I know but it tends to be good on the hard sciences
No.461417
>>460169Yes the truck drivers strike should be supported.
I think they will probably end up cucking out for a tiny raise
Anyhoo you should hoard any essential goods which may run out later, whether due to the strike, disruptions to shipping or workers getting sick.
No.461422
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/gps-and-chemists-deliver-most-of-nsw-s-six-million-jabs-20210824-p58lh0.html
>A major hospital at the epicentre of Sydney’s outbreak has been forced into “emergency operations”, reducing the number of COVID-19 cases arriving by ambulance for 24 hours and transferring several critical patients to other hospitals.
>Greens NSW health spokesperson Cate Faehrmann said it was concerning western Sydney’s largest hospital was unable to cope with its caseload even though the state “might not be anywhere near the peak of this outbreak”.Health system already struggling under these numbers which are much less than other countries and nowhere near th peak
No.461609
>>461440Incredibly based. Let NSW join the US as the 51st state.
No.462877
oi m8 just cooked some spiders on the barby
No.462948
>>458167Do you ever notice how the state-funded networks are the only ones airing progressive-lib and proto-socialist messages?
Do you think the government is trying to tell us something, like morse-code blinking?
No.463005
>>462948>Do you think the government is trying to tell us something, like morse-code blinking?cunt no. they're just giving themselves the veneer of progressiveness to subdue any attempts at real progression
No.463020
>>462931Nothing different. Regardless of laws, they're spying on you. Remember Snowden?
Use Tor as much as possible. There's no excuse to use leftypol outside of Tor.
No.463021
>>463020I know full well that I'm talking to glowies when I post on this site but I'm not a pussy
No.463026
>>463021Where do you live? You tell the glowies where you live, but not your comrades?
No.463031
Absolute state of Eww south wales.
No.463033
>>463025glowie
>>463026stay away from me
No.463057
https://www.crikey.com.au/2021/08/25/getting-in-early-post-masks-its-hypocrisy-bubblin-crood/rumours of an election called October this year(!). How fucked, guess they want people jolly with the sportsball finals and hang Christmas over peoples heads.
No.463069
>>463057How good's democracy?
No.463142
>>463057Scovid knows the pandemic will go badly
Regardless, he will easily beat Sleepy Anthony
No.463146
>>463142doubtful, he barely won last time, even if he wins this time around it would be close. Might even be a hung parliament if Albo doesn't screw the pooch
No.463205
>>463069representative democracy? shit
No.464069
speaking with labor zealots makes me fucking murderous bros
No.464080
>>464069what happened? More islands for refugees? ""Pragmatic"" blairism? scum-licking Hawke/Keating?
No.464082
One of my old friends lives in Tasmania because she doesnt want to be a victim of the "human nature" that will lead us to WW3. Is it just a urban legend that there are no poisonous alligators, snakes or giant spiders on this island?
No.464086
>>464082there are Jack Jumper ants, white tailed spiders, funnel webs, red backs, and three types of (dangerous) snake species: tiger, white-lipped and lowland copperhead snakes
No.464095
>>464080>""Pragmatic"" blairism? scum-licking Hawke/Keating?THIS. holy FUCK.
<labor did all those shitty things because they're just being pragmatic bro I wouldn't expect an ML to understand what being pragmatic means bro at what point will these people sober up and realise that this "pragmatism" is a disguise for their cowardly capitulation, or rather, that their actions are perfectly in line with the ethos of a bourgeois party. also, cunt, leninism is very pragmatic, actually pragmatic. I wouldn't expect someone who gets all their theory from instagram memes to understand that anyway.
No.464097
>>464095what do you mean bro its got "labor" in the name bro party of unions bro forget about it being historically collaborationist bro
I could handle ALP careerists believing this but the problem is that many unionists (and unions like the ACTU, not even gonna call the SDA a union) and leftists believe this as well.
No.464104
>>464097>I could handle ALP careerists believing thisyeah… this is them. I find it just as if not more revolting than other people believing it since you know the reason they run with the pragmatic narrative is because they're simply opportunists. I can tell deep down they know I'm right but they're not going to let the truth stand in the way of their fruitful career LARPing as a working class hero.
No.464262
>>464082good luck to her surviving on Tasmania when they rely on Australia for most of their food, medicine, technology. Australia will get nuked in ww3 and Tasmania will descend into Lord of the Flies.
No.464280
>>464262>Tasmania will descend into Lord of the Flies.based
No.464540
>>460169> lunatic anti-lockdownWhat? Changed your views on lockdown have you?
No.464656
>>464095>b-but if the labor party doesn't adopt liberal policies they can't win>i-it doesn't matter they're now what the liberal party was 20 years ago, that's still better then the 2021 liberal party!Fucking retards
No.464942
>>464086>Jumper antsonly dangerous if your allergic
>white tailed spidersnot dangerous
>funnel websNot dangerous, only Sydney funnel webs are
>red backsbarely dangerous, maybe if you were in palliative care or born an hour ago
>tiger, white-lipped and lowland copperhead snakeswhite-lipped aren't dangerous but the other two are
No.465596
>NSW HEALTH SERVICES PLEADING WITH PEOPLE 'NOT TO CALL AMBULANCES, NOT TO GO THE HOSPITAL OR A MEDICAL CENTRE - UNLESS IT'S A TRUE LIFE OR DEATH SITUATION
HERE WE GO. COLLAPSE POINT REACHED
No.465765
>>465596They're getting shit on for this, but I know from first hand experience that dipshits abuse ambulances for things like ingrown toenails and headaches. Some then abuse hospital staff for not giving them a ride home after.
No.466028
>>465969>What has the IWW been up to lately?Irrelevancy.
No.466029
>>464280Who will seize the shit machine?
No.467047
whats the best leftist group in Australia
we have
>socialist alternative (trotskyites)
>Communist party Australia (pro AES)
>CPA - ML (maoist)
>Australian Communist Party (they do the community stuff
Socialist Alliance (australian DSA)
No.467368
>>467047There are tons of orgs in Australia, but AFAIK these are the only ones that actually do anything:
<Australian Communist Party<Socialist Alternative (ewwwww)<Socialist AllianceI'd go to whatever is most active in your area (or go to everything), which is probably ACP.
No.467389
>>467368No ACP in my state unfortunately. Only PCA plus the other two socialist groups. What song you like about PCA?
No.468400
I Just got sent a bunch of texts by Craig kelly asking me to voot UAP lmao
No.471451
ACP anon, what is the party line on dengoid China?
No.471458
>>471440Austardia has no human rights!
No.471463
>>471440I need you to provide a source for the attached image, for research purposes.
No.471466
>>471456Finally, I see the correct and really fucking obvious take on China that gets drowned out by all or nothing retards on this board.
No.471480
>>471456<ACP denounces China for not being socialist enough>Finally, I see the correct and really fucking obvious take on China>that gets drowned out by all or nothing retards on this board.>all or nothing retards on this board.>all or nothing retardskek god damn you're fucking stupid
No.471490
>>471456thanks m8 ill join up after lockdown
No.471677
GUESS WHICH PARTY IS BUYING TELEVISION ADS AGAIN?
i dont watch tv but my damn roommates do and those United Australia Party 'muh covid freedoms' ads have started
No.471680
>>468400I'd report them to spam watch services. Could be fun.
No.471685
>>471680he wouldn't be the first, apparently it's totally legal
No.471849
>>471677Oh shit yeah, but this time I'm not seeing any of Clive's fat face. How much cash do these guys have to piss away on campaigning before an election has been called? Especially after they blew $50 on the last one.
No.472868
What's going on in Aussieland? Is the outbreak really too strong for a zero-infection policy to hold? The liberal burger media is parading it as a victory for vaccines and especially for the normalization of death.
Are you really saying uncle to Chinachads already?
No.472912
>>472868>Victory for Vaccines.We already know the vaccines don't prevent you from transmitting the virus and that they seem to basically stop working after 6-8 months (which makes it much less like an actual standard vaccine and more a flu season booster shot). When you say this to Lib's (In the US sense) they just shove their fingers in their ears and repeat "WE NEED THE VACCINES TO GET #BACKTONORMAL, WE NEED THE VACCINES TO GET #BACKTONORMAL, WE NEED THE VACCINES TO GET #BACKTONORMAL" And are almost as annoying as rightoid anti-vaxxers
>Is the outbreak really too strong for a zero-infection policy to hold?No.
Several of our states very successfully crushed pretty large outbreaks down to 0 even without mass vaccination. The issue has been that NSW which is our biggest and at the moment most rightoid state let the virus run rampant and eventually infect everywhere else again. The "Zero-Infections was never the goal" is a cope by Liberals to explain why they failed so badly.
>What's going on in Aussieland?The hilarious thing is just how much the LibNat's are fucking themselves no matter what they do, The actual party rank and file of the LibNat's are small business tyrants, Oligarchs and Land Barons, But that is an unworkable voting base for elections, so they need to rely on poorly educated right-wing proles and lumpen to vote for their nominally 'liberal' party.
So when the lockdowns hit this was their conundrum.
<We have to physically do SOMETHING to stop Coof spreading because just letting it kill a bunch of people will be seen as gross malpractice.<But locking down will effectively alienate our entire base of business owners and right-wingers.It's for this reason i think the best hope for a Labor gov will be if this shit isn't over by new years and we go to election still under restrictions and the LibNat voots get split between O.N and UAP causing all three to eat shit.
No.472997
>>472868New South Wale's government fucked up really badly. We could have maintained a covid zero policy until we reached a higher vaccination rate (which admittedly would have been much slower without the threat of covid being in your neighbourhood) but the NSW government didn't want to shut down businesses so they let it go wild.
The second largest state, Victoria, has been trying to get back to zero after it leaked from NSW but despite best efforts they just can't stop delta once its gotten this bad. We're now aiming to reach "80% vaccination of eligible adults" nation wide (something like 64% of the total population) before we back off on the heavy restrictions we have in place. Those restrictions vary by state.
Unfortunately this doesn't mean we'll open our borders again any time soon.
No.473014
>>472868we've said uncle to the seppos more than anything by the looks of it, but even if they were to collapse in the next 10 years and China ends up numba 1 then we'd still end up with Pauline/Butterfield vs Hill/Jordies ticket.
No.473177
>>472868Previous "waves" were among overseas travelers returning home. Easier to contain since most were fairly well off. Evidently they rarely socialize with the very poor working class people who never traveled overseas.
due to housing crisis large proportion of Austards live many families in one home. Many people are couch surfers - no single home. Hardly any attention given to this in the Fake News MSM
Austardia was lucky the first time. Fake News MSM said Bin Chicken was a genius and the gold standard. She believed she was a genius who could make the virus go away by doing nothing, causing it to spread into the poorer sections of community, where containment would be much more difficult.
Health system is also severely underfunded so realistically a zero covid strategy was the only one which could avoid long term damage. Its already struggling under these numbers which are much less than other nations
No.474670
>>474182This is the only good idea that our government's had in a long time. Don't like it? Make your own Australia!
No.475112
>>474182Austardia has no human rights and must be liberated by carpet bombing!
No.475225
>>474182Different countries erect different barriers to democratic rights and the efforts of "third" or "minor" political parties to appear on election ballots.
In the state of Tennessee in the United States, below is the directive from the Secretary of State's office on how a third party(the Democratic and Republican parties being the first two with no signature and petitioning requirements) can appear on the ballot with a candidate under the name of the party. It is a clever, little undemocratic ruse requiring a percentage of a statewide election :
"….Because there were a total of 2,243,294 votes cast for governor in 2018, at least 56,083 registered voters of the State of Tennessee must sign the petition to form a statewide recognized minor party. (56,083 is 2.5% of 2,243,294, which was the total number of votes cast for governor in November of 2018.)"
Anyone who has ever done serious petitioning understands that to get 56,083 "good" signatures requires getting 2X or 3X the number of required signatures, in this case at best slightly more than 112,000 signatures.
And both the Democratic and Republican parties may review the petitions and challenge the validity of signatures, which they routinely do with a vengeance.
The requirement used to be 5%(!) until two small parties, the pseudo-left Green Party of Tennessee and the right-wing libertarian Constitional Party, went to federal court in 2012 and were placed on the ballot. The federal judge admonished the state to be more reasonable. The state legislature made only one change, cutting the requirement in half.
To appear as an "independent" requires only 25 signatures plus the requirement to have nine people as "electors", one from each of the state's congressional districts.
Finally, petitioning can take place for only 90 days(3 months) prior to the election
Good luck to our brothers and sister in Australia. I will follow and promote your efforts with keen interest because your struggle is our struggle.
No.475277
>>475112I agree with carpet bombing but for different reason…
No.475324
>>474182A lot of cope there, the alliance with the US is depressingly popular and has even grown from a “low” point of 63% in 2007.
Likewise it’s kind of revealing of their irrelevance that requiring a party to have 1500 members to contest a federal election is enough worry them so badly
No.475376
>>475324Paternalistic Marxists, always claiming to know the true interests of the masses
No.475455
Austardia is just more open about being an authoritarian dictatorship than many the other capitalist nations.
No.475460
>>475455every time you say "austardia" it gets more and more funny mate I'm clutching my sides over here
No.475518
>>474182Could we all just become members of all the left wing parties to keep them all afloat?
No.478035
>>475518Nah, it'd end in a cluster fuck
No.478215
>>478139a mix of reactionaries, conservatives, small and big business owners and new-age hippies. People who are by-and-large alienated by both state and federal government. Fuelled by boredom, financial precarity (we aren't paying these cunts to stay indoors), and constant "open up" propaganda a certain restlessness spawns. The result of this is an outburst of anger, so they call themselves "ANZACS" and want to behead those they don't like, they end up bashing cops and getting pepper sprayed and arrested.
No.478224
>>478217
Multiplied by many millions that's thousands of preventable deaths. How the fuck can you call yourself a communist if you literally value the 'normal functioning' of capitalist society more than the lives of thousands of people?
No.478235
>>478225
Your source is based off a 'prediction', not the actual stats themselves. Despite the 99% survival rate, this is only assuming proper treatment. Because treatment is not so easily granted under usual circumstances, the survival rate is lower than 99% in reality. When accounting for the 3rd world, which is an example of how things can look if conditions go awry (which they are poised to, within NA if things continue along this trajectory), the death ratio of Covid 19 is about 1 in 50 people.
By contrast, the flu is around 1 in 1750 people; an order of magnitude of difference. And unlike Covid there is no caveat of 'needing proper treatment'–you can easily just endure the flu naturally and no harm will come to you. The same cannot be said for Covid, which, again, requires specific intervention in order to reflect the so-called (misleading) '99% survival rate'.
No.478250
>>478139Are you suggesting there's a coherent ideology behind most protests?
Fact: fascists and communists will protest side-by-side when a common interest arises. (For one example, environmental issues.)
That's why you'll see many hippie libs and 'American Libertarians' and neo-liberal business owners and anarchists side-by-side. And guess what, lots of people from those same groups also would be against those protests. You don't even need a coherent ideology to get mad or believe in something.
No.481195
>>478250There is some commonality with all the protests. The leaders of the protests always have red ensigns. What does this mean to them?
No.481196
>>481195Right, the leaders is a different question (and a good one).
>red ensignI didn't know so I looked it up. Picrel makes sense.
No.481197
https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/australia-surveillance-bill/>Data disruption warrant: gives the police the ability to "disrupt data" by modifying, copying, adding, or deleting it.What in Allah's holy name are you doing Australia?
No.481199
>>481198>Surveillance capitalism is schizoGo away Australian nationalist
No.481201
>>481200So, this is what its like for countries like China, Cuba, Russia, Iran, etc to have US pundits talk about your country when they have no fucking idea what they're talking about.
No.481202
>>481200>Australia is communistholy based
No.481204
>>481203well… its something. Bandt is probably the most left leader of any party in the public eye that we've had for a while. It's clear he wants to establish a social-democracy (
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/09/australia-greens-green-new-deal-gnd-elections). But at the same time what will this translate into? It will largely be campaigning for inner-city seats will no real connection to the working class. One fault of ALP is that when they use their union base for campaigning, they usually dismantle it after they get in power. Now, of course, they don't have the same connection to the unions like the ALP does - but they have
some degree of union members. If they want their dreams to be a reality then they would seek to lay down roots among this base and then strengthen it. But this won't happen. Instead they'll fight over the votes of middle-class educated women and Trades Hall kids wearing t-shirts saying "this is what a worker looks like."
No.481205
>>481193
>the death ratio of Covid 19 is about 1 in 50 people.
source
No.481206
>>481193>>481205Take it to the general, nerds.
No.481207
>>481206not until he sources me
No.481208
>>481197the feds already had these powers they just requested the NSA or CIA do it through the five eyes agreement, this just formalizes power that they've had for awhile.
No.481209
>>481203They have no plan to take over CONTROL of big companies. This is just sucdem crap.
No.481210
>My election predictions.
<If COVID is more or less resolved and most importantly lockdowns have ended.
Lib's will call an election as soon as humanly possible and will ride the wave of 'WE SAVED AUSTRALIA FROM COVID WERE #BACKTONORMAL' To another majority. Albanese gets rolled lmao. and replaced with probably an even more empty suit.
>We stay in lockdown, Covid continues until Christmas.
Libs try to hold off the election as long as possible, When it is called. Enough delusional proles and lumpenproles spoil their ballot by writing in 'END LOCKDOWNS NOW' or whatever that Labor gets either a bare majority or for maximum lol's a 49% Minority.
We then have to spend some amount of time listening to Labor shills cope and seeth and explain "Ok i know that Labor promised not to do this but *wall of text*". There's probably a spill at some point anyway and Albanese gets rolled anyway lmao and then everyone remembers "OH YEAH…THESE GUYS FUCKING SUCK AS WELL!"
And then at the election after this one Labor collapses again with 'TRUE BLUE TRADIES WHO DREAM OF OWNING AN ITALIAN RESTUARANT' and Students going back to vooting libs and greens respectively.
No.481211
>>481210>If COVID is more or less resolved and most importantly lockdowns have ended.Ain't gonna be over, like the US 30% of the country won't get vaccinated & the virus will continue to spread among vaccinated pops, causing permanent neuro & organ damage in many of them all the while until vaccine resistance strains pop up.
There is no return to normal, not going to happen in our lifetimes. Govt can't come out with this because we're a kulak mafia state & short term profits gotta come first + normies whose entire value system is based on consumption of luxury goods + consumer experiences can't cope with this.
Even if we did come out with a sterilizing vaccine though even muh 1 in 50 death toll is pure cope, epidemologists have been saying since day one the majority of deaths among infected will occur years after initial infection due to a full 1/3 of people getting infected receiving permanent organ/neuro damage equivalent to a decades-long pack a day smokers & early-stage dementia. This damages compounds on subsequent infections along with permanent damage to the immune system, and there is no evidence that current vaccines drastically eliminate the risk of permanent organ/neuro damage.
This pandemic is legitimately apocalyptic, just not in the short term. Porkies can't deal with this though, so they're coping the same way they do with chaotic climate change, ie "Fuck the proles" and "Technology will save us!".
Normies won't care though, even in the us where like 100 million people aren't vaccinated, hospitals are being overwhelmed & even vaccinated people are dropping dead because of this, reality has been so carefully constructed like a bubble that the majority have absolutely no idea or are retreating into full schizophrenic fantasy land to cope.
Media control of reality is even tighter here and the majority, ie "silent Australians" live in an infantile fantasy world from which they refuse to be woken. Even as their lungs and chest cavities are filling with infected fluid and they're drowning alive they will reject reality and keep voting largely for muh sensible economic managers.
Labor has a higher chance of winning than it has for a while esp given Murdoch & Nine Fairfax have been tossing them bones. I suspect we'll see more positive coverage of Labor from the MSM as we get closer to election date as Murdoch & co have lost faith in the coalition, they aren't going to allow Labor any significant majority though, it's going to be a bare majority at best and they will be expected to throw continual concessions at the worst elements of the elites to retain power. Trinket social reforms & some bare bones enviro stuff will be allowed, but any significant will be rejected & any even moderate high energy moves will result in the media being thrown against them as an attack dog & painted as Neo-Stalinist chinese puppets.
so tl;dr, it's very possible Labor will win but it'll be a poison chalice victory designed to get porky out of the current predicament while providing a future scapegoat for all of our national problems (ie the coming economic collapse) which will ensure effective one party rule after.
No.481212
>Hot take.
I think a lot of petite-bougie / (genuine) Labour-Aristo seething and coping around the lockdowns has come from the fact that their little fucking cottage industry AUTHENTIC greek restaurant or whatever dumb shit they did was viewed as 'non-essential'.
meanwhile? the Semi-Retarded guys packing shelves at Coles and Woolies? and Hamid-Ganesh Ansupetapetalun whose whole job is making sure you dont steal fucking fuel and being worried that an Ice head is gonna jump through the window one night and slit his throat?. Yeah those guys are essential for the running of a modern economy.
We know that a cause of alienation under capitalism is the feeling that ones labour is being expended in non-productive formats. So being told that your Labour is honestly 'not-essential' to the continued running of society, While the the same people you looked down on either in disgust or pity are the only people that still have a fucking job. it feels bad.
No.481213
>>481212>I think a lot of petite-bougie / (genuine) Labour-Aristo seething and coping around the lockdowns has come from the fact that their little fucking cottage industry AUTHENTIC greek restaurant or whatever dumb shit they did was viewed as 'non-essential'.The whole essential vs non-essential thing definitely hit hard as it is a glaring contradiction vs the secular protestant cosmically wealth as morality/hard work makes you rich understanding of the world & PB types struggle to reconcile this.
It's not the primary basis, although you're correct that opposition primarily comes from PB & labour aristocrat types, ie muh small business owners who are getting wrecked & white collar office types who have been thrown into financial precariousness and now risk impoverishment.
That's one part of it, and another part is I think that the entire value system of Australians has been built around degenerate consumption of consumer goods/consumer experiences. If the only thing you live for is to consume one product/experience after the other, and suddenly you're cut off from that artificial consumer hedonism, it's going to throw you into a personal crisis.
To a lesser degree lack of socialization may play a role but frankly, social Alienation was at an all time high to begin with, most people have no connection to community, neighbors, etc and a significant portion of the country were already suffering the effects of us prior to the pandemic. Media & govt are certainly pushing this as the primary justification for people's misery but frankly I think it's bullshit, people are miserable because their lives were shallow/empty and devoid of meaning or purpose for a very long time before this, and now their opium of consumption & Hollywood Mindrot indoctrinated permanently embarrassed millionaire cope (I'll get rich one day as a result of x magical event because I'm one of the good guy and a protaganist and the good guys always win, etc) has been taken away.
No.481214
>>481213>The whole essential vs non-essential thing definitely hit hard as it is a glaring contradiction vs the secular protestant cosmically wealth as morality/hard work makes you rich understanding of the world & PB types struggle to reconcile this.Exactly.
"I went to Uni and Business college for 7 years. And right after i started my dream business COVID hits, Now im in debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars and im gonna lose my location…"
"WTF THIS PRICK WHO DIDN'T EVEN FINISH YEAR 10 AND HAS WORKED AT COLES FOR 10 YEARS IS MAKING MORE MONEY THEN ME??? BUH BUH BUT THAT ISNT FAIR!!!!"
>That's one part of it, and another part is I think that the entire value system of Australians has been built around degenerate consumption of consumer goods/consumer experiences. If the only thing you live for is to consume one product/experience after the other, and suddenly you're cut off from that artificial consumer hedonism, it's going to throw you into a personal crisis.I can attest to this.
My father is a 'temporary embarrassed millionaire' type as you described who works as a council tradie (but always prattles on how he's gonna get into either real-estate or open a restaurant when X, Y, Z Magical event happens or when the Libs improve the economy.
He didn't realise until that his entire social-life outside of work which mainly revolved around going to the pub or to the dogs and the relationships he formed in that social-life were pretty much entirely reliant on the ability for those places for him to consume products and experiences to stay open.
Now he hasn't talked to much less seen any of his supposed friends in months and all he does when he's not working is cook, drink goon wine and sleep.
>Media & govt are certainly pushing this as the primary justification for people's misery but frankly I think it's bullshit, people are miserable because their lives were shallow/empty and devoid of meaning or purpose for a very long time before thisThis.
Im going getting so fucking sick of
<"We need to get back to normal"We were unhappy when it was normal. 'normal' blatantly wasn't working. our lives were becoming consistently WORSE in fact even when it was 'normal' all that covid did was send the pedal to the floor.
>and now their opium of consumption & Hollywood Mindrot indoctrinated permanently embarrassed millionaire cope (I'll get rich one day as a result of x magical event because I'm one of the good guy and a protaganist and the good guys always win, etc) has been taken away.Class mobility is gone. the ladder has been completely pulled up.
The petite bougie mindset that in reality boiled down to 'If you are willing to treat everyone and everything that occurs to you in life as a cold calculated business transaction, and you claw your way towards that ladder, kicking everyone else aside, then you MAY get your lease for a shitty 'Burger Bar' in Sydney frequented by other bougies and fucked up Labour aristos' has completely fucking COLLAPSED in the face of Covid.
>Normies won't care though, even in the us where like 100 million people aren't vaccinated, hospitals are being overwhelmed & even vaccinated people are dropping dead because of this, reality has been so carefully constructed like a bubble that the majority have absolutely no idea or are retreating into full schizophrenic fantasy land to cope.>Media control of reality is even tighter here and the majority, ie "silent Australians" live in an infantile fantasy world from which they refuse to be woken. Even as their lungs and chest cavities are filling with infected fluid and they're drowning alive they will reject reality and keep voting largely for muh sensible economic managers.Lol this as well.
Everyone fancies themselves a conspiracy-theorist now.
Labour-Aristos and Petite-Bougies pretending they didn't just realise their entire morality and mindset was based on lies basically fall into believing the jewish conspiracy reformatted #645
And Libs who unironically believe we can just elect Labor and everything will be fine.
No.481215
>>481212100%
I think the ones the most mad are the construction workers and the related developers who have spent the last 20 years thinking they shit gold - turns out its only profitable if you import meatsacks to spend their money here.
No.481216
>>481211>epidemologists have been saying since day one the majority of deaths among infected will occur years after initial infection due to a full 1/3 of people getting infected receiving permanent organ/neuro damage equivalent to a decades-long pack a day smokers & early-stage dementia. For real? Is there anything good to read for this?
No.481217
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNvKShhPK1Y
>End of the video.>Their big idea to stop logging companies destroying the country is to get companies to sponsor advertising campaigns to stop other companies from doing it.This is the sheer level of delusion that libs have coped themselves up onto.
Like
<"Why of course! the giant conglomerates will try to stop logging if we just spam their brand twitter account enough! Then everything will be good!" No.481218
>>481212More like 100% correct take.
No.481220
>>481219The unions have aus post by the balls tbf
No.481222
>>481217clearly he doesnt like this idea, you are being as uncharitable as possible. he just thinks there isnt.much time to save them and that the most likely short term solution to save the koalas is a huge branded mcsanctuary because the libs and nats have shown utter contempt or outright aggression to koala habitat
No.481223
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-02/perth-man-arrested-afp-video-impersonating-commissioner/100343078
>A Perth man has been charged as part of an investigation into a video which claimed to show the Australian Federal Police (AFP) Commissioner calling for the federal government to be overthrown.
>Authorities said their operation started about two weeks ago when the video began circulating online, which falsely claimed to show Commissioner Reece Kershaw calling people to join the AFP in the cause.lol would something like that actually work?
No.481226
>>481224Gough was really tip-toeing around the CIA and they still shafted him. 70s was really the last chance for true independence, we might as well be annexed at this point. Still, good on Fernandes for fighting for this info, he's still sus, but I guess a limited hangout at least has some info.
No.481228
>>481223This sovereign citizen shit is really creeping up in Australia. I think they are more popular in Australia than the US now.
We shouldn't be too critical of them because they are useless idiots in undermining the legitimacy of the state.
No.481230
>>481227now THAT'S what I call a pep talk!
No.481231
>>481228I've had the displeasure of engaging with some of these people - they are legitimately mentally ill. I mean, maybe some aren't? But the ones I've met are genuinely crazy in a medical sense.
No.481232
>>481231Tell me a story, boss.
No.481234
>>481232I can't go into specifics because I don't want to be identified from my job. But I've worked in customer support and answered a number of letters (never emails) from people like this.
One guy signed his letter with a bloody thumb print, another sticky taped gold buillons to the letter as an offering (bribe?).
One was asking (I don't why he was asking us) where he can find an Australian embassy in Australia for people who don't recognise the legitimacy of the current Australian government (because its a corporation).
A bunch of them do weird capitalisation in their sentences and use things like stop or * like its a telegram. A lot of them talk like they're stuck in the the 1920s or something with overly formal archaic speech.
A few have threatened my colleagues and I with violence if we don't give them what they want too.
No.481236
>>481228>>481234Seems currently that SovCits are freaking out pver the Abolition of Certificates of Title.
https://www.registrargeneral.nsw.gov.au/property-and-conveyancing/eConveyancing/abolition-of-certificates-of-title>On 11 October 2021, new changes to the land titles system in NSW will be introduced that will transition NSW away from paper-based processes.
>The Real Property Amendment (Certificates of Title) Act 2021 makes several changes to legislation, importantly allowing for the cancellation of certificates of title (CTs) and progressing NSW to 100% electronic lodgment of land transactions.
>There are two significant changes from 11 October 2021:
>the cancellation of CTs and the control of the right to deal (CoRD) framework; and>all land dealings must be lodged electronically. This is referred to as ‘100% eConveyancing’.They fully believe that their right to owning property will be abolished and they're shit scared of eConveyancing. Connect this with Australia and each State/Territory being listed as a company on ABN (there is a reason for this and it's a pretty simple search) boomer sovcits are freaking out.
No.481237
>>481236Well that's the thing with these people, they don't have any grasp of how legislation works - the irony is that obviously its all 'spooks' - its just words not a magic spell - yet they also seem to think that things like the magna carta and the constitution are magic.
No.481238
>>481236It increases the chances of fraud and Austard governments' computer systems have usually been poorly setup
No.481239
>>481238I agree, but that is very different to "my property is being stolen/taken away"
No.481240
>>481236Unironically, the Torrens Register is one of the few things blockchain technology could improve.
>>481238Isn't the register already electronic? The piece of paper given to landowners means nothing, what's in the register is all that matters.
No.481242
does anyone here have a a book or articles regarding China's economic relationship with Australia? Australians fucking hate China for some reason and I want to expose the chuavanism in it.
No.481243
>>481242People here genuinely dont understand Bashic Egonomischs and if you explained to them that entire regions of the country's economy are built upon the sale of minerals and shit to CHYNA, And that we are shooting ourselves in the legs by volunteering to be the front-line of the cold war for burgers because our poli's have some sort of submission complex where they like to try and prove how 'true and brave' we are to burgers they couldn't give you any answer.
But really poor economic education is only one half of the problem, I'd say that some 'chauvinism' is involved. Not outright "*Does sieg heil* LETS KILL ALL THOSE FUCKING GOOKS" But more…boomer delusions and…literal joke stereotype's that we take as legitimate.
For example a conversation i had with my Salt of the Earth, True blue aussie battler, Council tradesman father went like this.
>*Him telling me how Xi personally ordered the COVID-HIV-AIDS-SARS bioweapon released from the 'Wuhan germ warfare lab'*>"The world needs to punish china for this Anon"<"Like what? Sanction them lol? It would destroy our entre economy!">"No i mean invade them! us and the Americans!"<"We would kill literally tens if not hundreds of millions of people and result in a nuke being dropped on our fucking heads r-tard">"*Tch* Come on Anon lets be serious, The chinese army can't do anything…It's all in the name after all…All their equipment? "MADE. IN. CHINA." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA YOU JUST SEND IN THE SAS AND THE NAVY SEALS AND WE WOULD BE IN BEIJING LIKE THAT!!!!" No.481244
>Guy I know that lives in Strathfield who just told me that the council (Liberals) has rezoned a demolished petrol station from being 'contaminated for at least 100 years with lead' to being 'safe to build on' So they can throw down more fucking duplexes in the middle of the main street.
I hate these fucking duplexes more then anything else,
They decided to tear down a fucking school where i live to throw like a dozen of them up as a contained mini-suburb within my neighbourhood.
But their literally the only buildings in my entire shitty little neighbourhood south of wollongong that are built in the 'Australian dream' style. making them loo out of place as fuck.
No.481246
>>481245Bizarre.
He never mentioned that this shit made a video about it.
No.481247
>>481242I'll give you a "QRD" but I assume you're not Australian so apologies if I'm telling you things you already know - at the very least maybe someone browsing will pick up some new information.
Australia was settled as separate British colonies, kind of like the 13 colonies in what became the USA.
During the middle of the 19th century gold was discovered in Victoria and other parts of the country, leading to the gold rush which saw Melbourne become the richest city in the world.
During this gold rush many Chinese miners came (much the same as in the Californian gold rush). This saw the rise of similar anti-Chinese sentiment as in California. Interestingly this is very much part of the working class tradition as there was a view that Chinese workers would work for less so they were a threat to the white working class. (pic 1)
At the turn of the 19th century there was a push to federate the colonies to create a single country - this came into effect on 1 January 1901.
One of the first pieces legislation passed after federating was the 'Immigration Restriction Act'. This act is often called the 'White Australia Policy' and was in effect until 1975. The official government policy - with bipartisan support - was that Australia was to be an 'Anglo-Celtic' nation - i.e. British and Irish only. Even mainland Europeans were deemed too exotic for this new nation. Some Chinese Australians stayed and are still here today, but most left around this time due to the discrimination they faced. This was the era of the 'yellow peril'. (pic 2)
Famously, when the League of Nations met after WW1 to discuss the new world order, Australia lobbied hard to not allow Japan's resolution regarding racial equality to pass. During WW2 Japan bombed the Australian mainland, feeding into fears that the Asian hordes were going to over run Australia - particularly given Australia's small population (less than ten million). Ironically we were allied with China in the war. (pic 3)
Because of this, after WW2 Australia adopted a policy of 'populate or perish', encouraging high birth rates and immigration. The government attempted to take more British migrants but given the UK has just lost many people in the war they weren't that keen on people leaving. Australia then tried to get people from the Baltic countries - 'beautiful balts' - because they were deemed white enough. At one point a boat with many Jewish refugees arrived and the media attack the government hard on this (pic 4). Ultimately the government accepted many mainland European refugees - Italians, Greeks, Yugoslavian - this shaped Australia quite dramatically and shifted attitudes on race - for example, Melbourne has the largest Greek population outside Athens.
During the 1960s small numbers of Asians began to be accepted into the country on the 'Colombo plan' which sought to bring Asian students to Australian universities in the hopes of dissuading them of communism. By the 1970s the White Australia Policy was increasingly untenable and the Whitlam Government formally abolished it in 1975.
With regards to your specific point on economics - in the 19th century Australia developed a strong 'labourist' flavour with many workers coming to Australia for the gold rush or for the booming agricultural sector ("Australia rides on the sheeps back"). There was a view during this time that Asian 'coolies' would work for less pay in harder conditions. The colony of Queensland was the first jurisdiction in the world with a labour/socialist government (albeit for a few days) and following federation Australia became the first country with such a government (see the following link for Lenin's dunk on them www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/13.htm).
The conservative political parties, which would eventually settle into the Liberal Party several decades later, and the Labour party reached a bipartisan consensus to make Australia a 'white country' on this basis. A famous piece written about this is the 'Australian Settlement' by Paul Kelly - its worth a read for some context but its far from academic.
Ultimately the White Australia Policy collapsed due to the erosion it saw after WW2 shifting attitudes, and increasing international pressure. Keep in mind that Australia and Japan signed a trade agreement in 1957 and became Australia's largest export market in 1966 (see
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Foreign_Affairs_Defence_and_Trade/Completed_inquiries/1999-02/japan/report/c05).
Australia also recognised Beijing in 1972, actually beating Nixon to the punch. Mind you, the government that did this was coup'd by the US in 1975 so make of that what you will.
You may be asking what Japan has to do with China - understand that Australians are racist morons, particularly the generations that lived through the period I've described. My grandparents and to a lesser extent my parents honestly couldn't tell you the difference between these countries, in their minds all of Asia is China. This 'yellow peril' fear didn't go away just because the White Australia Policy was ended.
During the late 70s Australia took in many Vietnamese refugees which started a new phase of racism. In the 1990s the 'One Nation Party' was formed, led by Pauline Hanson who famously expressed fears in her maiden speech to parliament that 'Australia is being swamped by Asians'.
Today around 6% of Australians are Chinese, 2% Vietnamese and 2% Filipino. Other East/South East Asian countries don't even make the top 10 of the countries most common ancestries.
I know I haven't given much in the way of specific resources - it's been a while since I studied all of this so my citations are lacking - but I can recommend this book, specifically the part about 'White Australia' -
https://www.academia.edu/26030759/The_Labor_Party_A_Marxist_Analysis No.481248
>>481243>JUST SEND IN THE SAS AND THE NAVY SEALS AND WE WOULD BE IN BEIJING LIKE THATThey should totally do it.
No.481250
>>481249Yes, Australia isn't that different to South Africa or Rhodesia, the main difference is that we overtook the Aboriginal population very quickly while whites remained a minority in the African colonies.
No.481251
>>481242>>481247>>481249Oh, this is also a documentary if you're interested in Australian immigration history - its not 'leftist' but has some interesting factual bits and pieces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X20748_iOD8 No.481253
>>481250Australia isn't like rhodesia. The country is not racist today. Its so unracist that immigrants almost outnumber natural born australians and minorities are becoming the majority of white cities.
No.481254
>>481253Ease up with the fake news Pauline
No.481255
>>481254yeah it was fake but so is australia being like a apartheid country. Abos can live in the cities if they want.
No.481256
>>481247>Today around 6% of Australians are Chinese, 2% Vietnamese and 2% Filipino. Other East/South East Asian countries don't even make the top 10 of the countries most common ancestries.Everybody in Australia knows those figures are lies. When you count people on permanent visas, it's at least 20% Chinese, 15% Indian etc.
No.481258
i'm still mad at you for not being chauvinist enough frankly
>Between 26 January 1949 and 30 November 1973, British subjects were able to apply for registration as an Australian citizen after one year's residence in Australia as an immigrant, and there was no requirement to attend a citizenship ceremony.
but no more, now it's all "no sorry we're not interested in the essentially unskilled, no it won't help if you wave your passport about a bit, sir please you're making a scene."
No.481259
>>481256The census is for all residents, temporary and permanent. You've been living in western Sydney too long if you think its representative of the majority of this country.
No.481260
>>481257Literally every country has this. Doesn't mean every non white is treated like crap.
No.481261
>>481260if every country did that then Nauru would go back to being one of the richest nations on the planet.
No.481262
>>481261I thought the only reason Nauru has Australian asylum prisoners because they couldn't make any money to be made from Phosphate mining as they had already mined it all, and had to basically accept Australia's request as to not go under economically?
No.481263
>>481260>Literally every country has thisI can't tell if you're retarded or just trying to get (you)s
No.481264
>>481262there was a period from about the 60s to the 80s or 90s where they were getting pretty good money from Phosphate mining which combined with a small population made Nauru pretty rich per head, but it was never very well invested (and probably wasn't fairly distributed either) so once they started running out of phosphate they had to rely more and more on their investment fund. That quickly went broke since more or less every fast-talker in the south pacific took them for a ride.
between going broke an Howard having the idea of filling it with refugees, they went for being a tax haven and money laundering centre. (iirc a lot of oligarch wealth leaving Russia went via banks that were notionally in Nauru.)
No.481265
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-15/allied-naval-united-states-biden-australia-nuclear-submarines/100465628So. Australia is now so transparently a vassel of the U.S we are now owning and operating their most sensitive tech and paying them to do so.
No.481266
>>481265When do I get to vote in the US elections? I've been saying this for some time and still no answer.
No.481267
As an asian it's nice seeing more asians here, growing up there was literally no asians in my town and none in my school, in hs the only asians were international students
Now we have an asian grocery store in town which is nice
>>481256Nice dude
No.481269
The relatively benign environment we have enjoyed in many decades in our region is behind us. We have entered, no doubt a new era, with new challenges for Australia and for our partners and friends and countries right across our region.
This challenge will require more of us in Australia and all of us who share a common vision about peace and stability and security in our region, so all nations can enjoy the fellowship of our region, the trade and the opportunities for our peoples, so they can realise what they want for their countries, just as we want for our country. That’s what we seek. That’s what Australians and our friends have always sought.
Today, I announce a new partnership, a new agreement that I describe as a forever partnership a forever partnership for a new time between the oldest and most trusted of friends, a forever partnership that will enable Australia to protect our national security interests, to keep Australians safe. And to work with our partners across the region to achieve the stability and security of our region.
This forever partnership that we have announced today is the single greatest initiative to achieve these goals since the Anzus alliance itself.
It is the single largest step we have been able to take to advance our defence capabilities in this country, not just at this point but for the future. It has been some time in the making, it is true to say.
These types of forever partnerships don’t happen overnight. It has been the product of great patience, of great determination, of a deep relationship forged between our nations and, indeed, the personal-level working relationships that we have been able to forge between leaders, between ministers, between our systems over an even longer period of time, led, of course, by the chief of the defence force and the secretary of defence, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the many missions they have been involved in around the world but particularly in these countries, particularly in these countries.
It is a forever partnership that has been diligently pursued by my government to enhance cooperation, to deepen our integration, to position Australia in the best and strongest way possible and to contribute to the stability and security of our region that will benefit all in our region, no exceptions.
As our first major initiative, it is, as we have announced today, for Australia to achieve a nuclear-powered submarine fleet. Not a nuclear-armed, a nuclear-powered. And to commence that build here in Australia in Adelaide within the decade.
Nuclear submarines have clear advantages. Greater endurance, they’re faster, they have greater power, greater stealth, more carrying capacity. These make nuclear submarines the desired substantial capability enhancement that Australia has needed. It helps us to build regional resilience as part of this first initiative. It is the first time this technology has ever been made available to Australia. And indeed one other country has only been given access to this technology back in the late ‘50s, the United Kingdom from the United States.
This is a one-off, as the president in Washington has made very clear. This is a very special arrangement. And a very important one for Australia.
Australia was not in a position, at the time we took the decision back in 2016, to build and operate a nuclear-powered submarine. That wasn’t on the table. It wasn’t on the table for a range of reasons, so the decision we have made to not continue with the attack class submarine and to go down this path is not a change of mind, it’s a change of need. The goal has remained the same.
And Australians would expect me as prime minister to ensure that we have the best possible capability to keep them safe. And to be unhindered in pursuing that as best as I possibly can. And that is what I have done.
The developments that have occurred since 2016 do now make a nuclear-powered submarine fleet a feasible option for Australia, which is what I first tasked the secretary of defence to inquire into.
We now have the support and expertise of the United States and the United Kingdom. Next-generation nuclear-powered submarines will use reactors that do not need refuelling during the life of the boat.
A civil nuclear power capability here in Australia is not required to pursue this new capability.
But there have also been game-changing developments in the strategic circumstances of our region*, which continue to accelerate at a pace even not envisaged as little as five years ago.
Contractual gates were build into the attack class project, necessarily. Those gates were there for a reason. Decisions have to be made before you proceed through those gates, and so, as we were looking towards that next gate, we have decided not to enter through it as part of the attack class program but instead now to pursue this path which gives us a far greater capability to meet the strategic needs.
I stress again, this is about propulsion. This is not about acquiring nuclear weapons.
Australia has no interest in that. No plans for it, no policy for it, no contemplation of it. It’s not on our agenda.
And we will continue to meet all of our obligations under the treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, as our partners in this exercise will also do.
This is not the only thing we have to do. Our investment in defence will only increase in the future. The lift will only go up, it won’t come back down. We will have to do more. We have invested more as a government. We have increased our defence spending as a share of our economy to over 2% ahead of time, and we will have to keep pressing forward.
Not just to meet these significant commitments we’re entering into to develop this nuclear submarine capability, but the many other capabilities that will be necessary.
To ensure we keep Australians safe and we have a stable and secure region for the future. Today I’m announcing in addition to the acquisitions announced as part of the 2024 structure plan, that we will be enhancing our long range strike capability including hawk and tomahawk cruise missiles and extended missile range for the our capabilities. And others can speak further to those.
These capabilities will be counted with our planned life of type extension of Australia’s Collins class submarine fleet. Which remains I stress one of the most capable conventional submarines in the world and will enhance our ability to deter and respond to potential security challenges during the transition to a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines.
No.481270
>>481269Morrison has officially lost his fucking mind.
No.481275
>>481272I don’t share prime minister Keating’s view, and I prefer to be in the company of John Curtin and Robert Menzies when it comes this issue and John Howard…
This has come from both sides of politics on both sides of the Pacific and this has always been a project that has gone well beyond any partisan issues I think in either country, and that is welcomed.
Everyone’s entitled to their view of these issues. The former Labor* prime minister is entitled to his views and be respected for those views but those are not views my government shares. My government shares the view that is grounded in the decision of Curtin and Menzies which has always understood that our relationship with the United States is a forever relationship**.
It is a relationship that has served our peace and security interests for a very, very long time and will forever into the future. What I’m excited about with this relationship is it brings together the third partner in what has been the most long standing relationships for Australia, with the United Kingdom. There is also a very unique relationship there and this formalises that to a whole new level when it comes to defence and security and diplomatic relations. I welcome that and I think most Australians will but one of the reasons the three of us come together is we respect democracy and we respect freedom and the diverse views that are there.
No.481277
Is this AUKUS thing a 3 eyes? What happened to the other two eyes?
No.481280
>>481279oh wait the UK isn't in the quad I'm fucking retarded
No.481282
>>481277NZ is only a defacto member because they aren't cucked enough to fellate the US on every demand a Canada isn't particularly relevant in the China encirclement game
No.481283
>>481282>Canada isn't particularly relevant in the China encirclement gameThe Two Michaels?
No.481284
>>481283Canada will of course be involved but the current focus of the US is beefing up the Quad. I imagine Canada and Australia will eventually be folded into IRBM and potentially ICBM tech which will be a necessity as the US is seemingly pushing its closest allies into para-nuclear capabilities.
Their aggressive actions toward Russia over the past decade have hinted very strongly that the US's principle aim is to undermine nuclear parity and develop an acceptable cost first strike capability.
No.481285
the farQUAD is so last year
Its now the AUKUS!
No.481286
Why do Australians seem to hate China so vigorously? What did China do to earn their ire?
No.481287
>>481286Are you talking about the ASIAN INVASION?
My guesses:
>major economic player>current biggest enemy of USA, who we are traditionally allied with>le domino theory of communism>chinese investors purchasing lots of land/property>lots of chinese immigrants in cities, think of hispanics in USA>they (leased?) ports in Darwin for 99 years lol, not sure if it was overruled yet>racism No.481289
>>4812861. History of yellow peril mentality and general racism
2. Murdoch media whipping up bullshit hysteria about things like cyber attacks, university students being spies, chinese investors driving up property prices and "foreign interference"
3. An arch-conservative government that believes that China is actually communist and that communism is worse than nazism (see
https://twitter.com/senator_cfw/status/1241322434717831170?lang=en for example of one of their own going full retard)
No.481290
>>481287>>481289Interesting. When all is said and done, has China actually done something purposefully which Australians have a right to be mad about? Or is it all driven by geopolitics/media propaganda/racism?
No.481291
>>481290Hmm afaik china put tariffs on some of our exports in response to australia pushing the whole covid origin thing and uighur pressure
No.481292
>>481290The Chinese government has certainly been quite bold in some their statements which hasn't sat well with Australians that are already riled up about China, but in short - no, they haven't.
Basically, Australia started blocking Chinese companies (such as Huawei) and increasing tariffs on Chinese imports. By all accounts we're being a patsy for US foreign policy, stirring up shit to keep them happy. Given that China has made Australia very rich through our mineral and coal exports, this is an astounding decision. Every time China has tried to resolve this diplomatically, Australia has accused China of 'bullying' Australia.
You can find some level headed writings on this here:
https://johnmenadue.com/category/foreign-affairs/china/ No.481293
>>481292 How do the tariffs Australia has placed on Chinese goods compare to the ones placed on Australia by China?
No.481294
>>481293China has put restrictions in place on beef, barley, wine and coal.
Australia has put restrictions in place on herbicides, paper, aluminium, glass, steel, electrical cables and a bunch of random shit used in construction and mining.
Note that countries such as the US have swooped in and have made a lot of money in the Chinese market on goods Australia has been locked out of exporting to China.
No.481295
>>481294Thanks for that anon, regarding the economic damage are these tariffs comparable or is one much bigger than the other?
I ask as I see a lot of percentage figures and the like being thrown around however I don’t know that much about their impact and at one point a country can be seen to be bullying another one.
No.481299
>>481298I hope you dont think anyone in this thread supports the Australian government.
No.481301
>>481296Awww the special kid thinks he's dementia joe's pal how sweet
No.481303
>>481300>>481302please go to /music/ to post gusic
No.481305
>>481286>Why do Australians seem to hate China so vigorouslyBecause China is le communist and the US is locking horns with them???
No.481306
>>481305Because they're unaustralian cucks
Any real Australian has a permanent grudge against the USA over the septics firing on our dockworkers in WWII our vassalisation and what they did to Whitlam and Assange
We demand Florida and all other alligator containing USA clay as reparations
No.481307
>>481306b-but american is white!
No.481308
>Sky news is on at work (half of my workmates have it blaring in the break-room all-day because 'it's the only one that gives a different opinion')
<"THE FRENCH (WHOSE EVER NEEDED THEM IN A FIGHT ANYWAY) WOULD HAVE S Q U E E Z E D THE AUSTRALIAN TAXPAYER FOR ALL THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN AS POOR A PRODUCT AS POSSIBLE!"
<"MEANWHILE AMERICA? OUR GREATEST ALLY? WE CAN BE ASSURED THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE GETTING THE BEST SUBS MONEY CAN BUY AT THE FAIREST COST POSSIBLE!!!1111!!!"
No.481309
>Biden dosen't even bother saying / remembering ScoMo's name.
Absolute state lmao.
No.481311
USA talking down to its client state
>>499049
No.481312
>>481311At least he's honest.
No.481316
>>481314Shanks is anti China hysteria and was critical of the sub rorting already taking place pre-nuclear.
No.481317
>>481316>The video where he calls ScoMo 'ScoMAO' and even shops his face onto the helmsman's body.*Vomits*
That Pakistani guy that he livestreams with seems like a power level or two above him though.
That guy should just make his own videos instead of being a background character on a NeoLib's Parasocial relationship simulator.
No.481318
>>481317I never said he was a communist, just that he's more on board with Keating and Rudd than Morrison.
No.481319
Australia as a nation has the roots in its Identity as a Third/Fourth world periphery of the British empire whose purpose was to explicitly remove rebellious populations from the UK's own internal/Fourth world periphery's of places like Ireland and to a lesser extent the other Celtic nations and use them for what amounted to mass agricultural slave labour in (literally) the global south, In order to compensate the British burghers (Capitalists making their money primarily from private agriculture) for the loss of America which had previously served a similar purpose.
From this we can extrapolate that uprisings such as the Castle-Hill rebellion, Bathurst rebellion and Phenomena such as the Bushrangers up until Eureka weren't 'PATRIOTS SAYING NO TO THE BIG GUBERMINT' like how the Libs have desperately tried to paint it in the last few years, Or Lumpen-proletarianism but were basically slave uprisings and slave escapes.
After Eureka Australia more or less remained a Third-World periphery of the British Empire with its population mainly transforming into Urban proletariat and paid proletariat agricultural workers. Until 'ownership' More or less transferred to America after the events of the Whitlam Prime-Ministership.
Obviously we could also consider ourselves 'second world' (semi-peripheral) in the present tense as we do have the capability to perform imperialism onto other third world nations, which we do act on. But i believe as the US empire crumbles and the 'real' third world (as of this point in time) continues to develop, the US will likely become more brutal towards their 'five-eyes allies'
No.481321
>>481319apparently this was once a common line of communist analysis for australia/nz's economy as a colonized part of the british (and perhaps later American?) empire, i think as late as the 1960s and maybe even 1970s, before it became more popular to self-flagellate for being first world.
perhaps also due to Vietnam, where both joined America on the bad side.unfortunately i don't remember the Australian analysis so well - the NZ one had an interesting little revival in the 1980s when there were some who thought it would head in the same sort of direction as Argentina, always caught in a crisis because they had to import fuel and manufactured goods to produce their agricultural exports, but as the value of agricultural products fell while the value of fuel and manufactures stayed steady they'd face constant crises and devaluation because they kept having to pay more for the same result each time, despite having less money to do so year-on-year.
No.481322
>>481319My family migrated to Australia to mine gold - they came by choice, not as prisoners. They saw an opportunity to have a better life working on the land than in the slums of the UK.
How does that fit into this analysis?
No.481324
>Sub-deal with US effectively cancels Aus-EU trade deal negotiations as France says negotiating with Australia 'Now Unthinkable' Will Veto any vote put to the EU parliament.
Lmao Based Biden.
Tricks us into spending even more useless fiat on the military equivalent of a guy with a small dick buying a big car.
Forgetting ScoMo's name.
And now fucking up a NeoLiberal trade deal in the process.
No.481326
>>481319Seems interesting, how do the Aboriginals fit into this? (Not Australian btw)
No.481327
>>481260every country has immigrant concentration camps, it's true
No.481331
>>481330useful idiot - he's trying to launch a political career off harassing international students
No.481332
>>481330>>481331Literally who tho
No.481335
>>481334<googles name>Drew Pavlou is an Australian human rights activist and former university senator from the University of Queensland best known for his criticism of the Chinese government and Chinese Communist Partyyep, he's cringe
No.481338
>>481331More about him harassing int. students?
No.481340
>>481329I mean, Australian workers are so cowed gotta start small.
No.481341
>>481340Tradies are not my comrades. Best to stick with the underclass of migrant labourers getting fucked by the gig economy.
No.481344
>>481339>separatist movement>that seeks to free East Timor from the Indonesian capitalist oligarchy back thenAbsolutely
No.481345
>Any real Australian has a permanent grudge against the USA over the septics firing on our dockworkers in WWII our vassalisation and what they did to Whitlam
The Australian people are responsible for what happened to Whitlam - they decisively voted the labor party and Whitlam out in the election that took place right after the dismissal
No.481346
>>481336Is there any hope for the SDA kicking out it’s right wing leadership ?
No.481349
>>50188
Being the victim of an abuse of reserve powers of the GG seem like an advantage if anything.
The Australian people consistently voted for the liberals for nearly 25 years prior to Whitlam and that economy was tanking (thought this was not all of his fault) with inflation tripling while unemployment rose.
No.481350
>>481348One can hope, I mean it does represent one of the youngest demographics
No.481351
>>481350That's not represented in their senior leadership, it just makes it easier for them to take advantage of young workers.
No.481352
>>481345The Belarusians voted for Lukashenko decisively. Does that mean you are saying we should support Lukashenko also?
Unique IPs: 40