Sage is probably so embarrassed that he's going to change his name and trip now
He will continue samefagging as anonymous to "support" himself.
Can you please keep your e-celeb bullshit in the e-celeb containment thread?
HAZ YOU E CELEB FAGGOT GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEE
HAZ YOU E CELEB FAGGOT GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEE
HAZ YOU E CELEB FAGGOT GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEE
HAZ YOU E CELEB FAGGOT GET OUT OF MY BOARD REEEE
It seems like, Rei is going on his stream
He's a fucking irish scot.
Why is Duave cancer
Again it was LITERALLY explained so many times that anglo isnt about race or country or identity. watch his fucking stream
Sure I know. I just object to exceptionalism of the little anglo (scot, australian whatever).
Why has the left not had any new ideas since 1968
That's very offensive.
>I've never done Zoom before
How is this actually possible considering the last year?ddrDDR
terminally online gamers who only use discord, teamspeak, and RaidCall©,anarchismAnarchism
I don't have any friends, family or responsibilities so I've been perpetually high while doing nothing for years. That's how.
So no work, no school or college? Even unemployment counselling is via Zoom where I live.ddrDDR
Yeah that sucks man. Hope you'll be okayddrDDR
The Anglo thing was never about white people or Anglo people, it was about their thinking, which they exported everhwhere. Wow, why is he still going for this?ddrDDR
If you're including social relations, like relations of capital, as part of the base as in "material conditions", there is no way nations are material conditions. As Stalin formulated it:
>A nation is a historically constituted, stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, and psychological make-up manifested in a common culture.
This isn't the reactionary essentialist view, but there is a Marxist view of nations as actually existing entities.ddrDDR
So neurons and electrons in my brain are not part of the material world???ddrDDR
>"race is a reality"
if thats the case then anglos shouldn't be regarded as evil for their actions they should be celebrated for allowing the other races to sorta livetankieTankie
'Anglo' is an anti-semitic dog whistle.
There I said it.
You're just lazy.The only thing that anglo means is simply a metaphysical and civilizational period beginning sometime in the 17th century up to the current year, which people are still mentally and dogmatically bogged down by.
Anglo is not idpol, he doesn't think that anglos are too over-represented in society and there needs to be "affirmative action" for non anglos, that's completely beside the point. Nobody is using "anglo" in a racial manner and Haz never used it in a racial manner. Only trolls like you try to use it in a racial manner in order to derail the thread, in bad faith.Fuck you, anglo
>>4239>The only thing that anglo means is simply a metaphysical and civilizational period beginning sometime in the 17th century up to the current year, which people are still mentally and dogmatically bogged down by.
this didn't explain shitanarchismAnarchism
Haz, and everyone else here, if you really wanna have a laugh at Anglo "formal logic" cucks, watch the first opening statement in this debate made by a libertarian (starting at 50 seconds):https://youtu.be/nme-7S_u1WUddrDDR
I believe in individualism to an extent.
Even in caveman days.
One caveman made a spear chucker, while other cavemen were fighting with sticks and stones, so the spear chucking cavemen over powered the caveman that didn't have a spear chucker.
All because of one caveman.
The difference is that the whole tribe benefited from that not just the caveman that created the spear chucker.
And that's communism. I think.
It's their way of thinking, not being able to think outside of an individualist box, absolutely incapable of any dialectical thinking. read hegel
Lol of course he looks like that.
So what is the purpose of Infrared? What do they want practically to achieve? Since we already live in socialism, there is no point to do anything.
idk, maybe stop being little fags and help build socialism
But didn't you know, socialism already exist?! We won! We live in socialism!
Man I really disagree with Haz there. Subjugation of labor under capital and value production isn't cultural at all, Rei shouldn't have used the term "a boss lording over me" that's vague as fuck.ddrDDR
>>4248>help build socialism
you gonna go on his stream again my man? I really liked the earlier conversation you had
Nah, next time okay? If he's having me on. He's like steaming every second day. I just had a four hour meeting.ddrDDR
where is my free shit then?>>4250
No, seriously: I don't understand what are the practical objectives of Infrared. I have no clue what they want.
>rei: yeeeeeeah…. I agree…
you're killing me man, very subtleanarchismAnarchism
classic angloid excuse
create the e celeb revolutionary vanguard
damn, now I feel kind sorry for Sage. he's losing it.
he has never been sane
>guys, is spamming and shitposting direct action???
no but shouting incoherent schizo insults apparently is
sage is an autist, but haz is a retard. strikes are direct action.
Every time it's like haz has never met a troll before. Imagine not just banning someone for spam.
To be fair, live streaming is becoming the new television, and we should know that television and movies can be pretty influential.
You also don't need to pay ten monthly subscription services to watch shit, just have an internet connection and pull shit up.
Haz should do a video/segment introducing new Marxists to the philosophical grounding (dialectics, relation to Hegel, etc.) behind Marx and Engel's work.
haz doesn't think capitalism is a system? why does marx use that exact phrase in capital then
Well lets cut him some slack bros, hes a newfag. eventually he will get used to it and learn how to ingore bait/spam/troll
strikes are direct action
Lysenko was brilliant
yeez, sage…. who knew a single eceleb could spin you out of control to the point of losing it.
go to sleep alcoholic theorylet
Direct action is when you directly interrupt the machinations of capital with some kind of physical act. Therefore, strikes are direct action
Wow, Haz says, leftypolers are smart people! I think he is cool
>>4278>implying strikes directly interrupt the machinations of capital with some kind of physical act
Sage has learnt nothing from the past 4 decades
Have you done spamming haz's chat now with shit takes? Moved back to spamming on leftypol with shit takes?
>everything is emotional
>emotions compel people to fight for things like marxism
this is leftypol's new darling. lmao
strikes are very effective when most of the countries wealth comes from factories.
Thats not the case anymore.
Most of the countrys wealth comes from finance.
Atleast in the US.
Exactly. even lenin critiqued labor unions because of this. fucking world war 1 was a war between industrial vs finance capital (finance won). sage is incapable of coming to this conclusion because of his ego
kek, eugenics-kun invited on stream
So the question is how do we attack finance.
Finance happens through servers, attack the servers and you attack finance.
Attacking the transportation of goods is also a way of attacking finance.
Piracy would be an effective way of doing so.
Also attacking ports.
But doing any of that is far more risky than striking.
Looks like your typical SyFy© look tbhanarchismAnarchism
Correct, which is why striking isn't as effective as piracy even.>But doing any of that is far more risky than striking.
Thats the point. If sage is too much of a pussy to even show his face and voice on stream, then he can't be expected to achieve anything. He doesn't like risk, he just trolls on an imageboard.
this guy is illiterate, I am done
>>4291>mispronouncing a word makes one illiterate
Not an argument. Also does that mean zizek is mentally disabled?
>nobody ever heard of the ZAD
the fat burger gets the wall.
The guest on Infared #1 was talking about TAZ
no, but žižek's first language isn't english. and yes, mispronouncing common words is a sign that the speaker has room for improvement. haz tries to psss himself off as someone who is well read on philosophy, history and theory. when asked about what he thinks of bonapartism he said "I think it gets overlooked and that's bad because people should know who bonaparte actually was" or something like that, he mumbled through the last part quickly and started talking about something else. that's a cop out.
he also said "jordan peterson is metaphysical" and "jordan peterson is a vulgar metaphysicist". jordan peterson is an idiot, and no-self respecting person would mention him as a serious contributor to anything. he's one of the gang of retards who say dumb shit but are paraded around because their dumb shit perpetuates and justifies the ruling ideology.
clearly haz is someone who knows enough leftism to grift and is using /leftypol/ to jumpstart his channel. this is how I know there aren't that many oldfags around, because this is just another batko, another muke.
he fucking comments on threads, judging who's right and who's wrong, responding to arguments. if he has something to say, he can write it like the rest of us, not make 9 hour streams talking shit. a real bookworm that one.
About how txt files on the net are good propaganda iirc
>>4297>he also said "jordan peterson is metaphysical" and "jordan peterson is a vulgar metaphysicist".
yes, because it takes peterson too seriously, when peterson is an idiot with literally nothing of value to say.
>>4297>but žižek's first language isn't english
so? haz's first language was not english either>wahh he analyzed peterson instead of dismissing him as an idiot like I lazily do, therefore he is a grifter
lol. also you have not made any refutation against his analysis of peterson.
>>4297>clearly haz is someone who knows enough leftism to grift and is using /leftypol/ to jumpstart his channel.
Seems immediately obvious after i checked it out for ten mins just and he was trying to persuade ppl to keep watching whilte defending vaush.
you guys know why Haz has respect for peterson, alex jones and vaush? no, of course not. you just jump to your own conclusions instead of actually listening to his argument
>>4288>Attacking the transportation of goods is also a way of attacking finance.
Transportation of goods isn't finance. Attacking transportation and production damages finance because transportation and production are more important than finance.>>4290>striking isn't as effective as piracy
This is the dumbest shit.
I just heard his argument justifying people like himself and vaush. I do not buy it in the slightest. Just another yanke trying to justify 'being famous' (read: getting there face on a screen) such is the yanke pathology.
Haz is bipolar, autistic, schizophrenic, retarded and has dementia
Oh, and why on earth would anyone get on stream with this guy when he is constnatly yelling? What an uncouth fellow. With communication skills like this I am not so surprised he has to talk at a camera only.
Haz resurrected anti-ANGLO gang
somehow I doubt that
Hey Haz, when you debate vaush you need to try not to get this triggered, he winds people up and proclaims victory when they get mad, this was Caleb's downfall just letting you know
Big TRUE, you shouldn't lose your cool when debating people in the future.
why does it matter if they’re direct or indirect action
>>4303>you guys know why Haz has respect for peterson
It is because ARIEL, THE HEROINE, IS QUITE FEMININE, BUT SHE ALSO HAS A STRONG SPIRIT OF INDEPENDENCE. FOR THIS REASON, SHE IS HER FATHER’S FAVOURITE, ALTHOUGH SHE ALSO CAUSES HIM THE MOST TROUBLE. HER FATHER TRITON IS THE KING, REPRESENTING THE KNOWN, CULTURE AND ORDER (WITH A HINT OF THE OPPRESSIVE RULE-GIVER AND TYRANT). BECAUSE ORDER IS ALWAYS OPPOSED BY CHAOS, TRITON HAS AN ADVERSARY, URSULA, A TENTACLED OCTOPUS—A SERPENT, A GORGON, A HYDRA. THUS, URSULA IS IN THE SAME ARCHETYPAL CATEGORY AS THE DRAGON/QUEEN MALEFICENT IN SLEEPING BEAUTY (OR THE JEALOUS OLDER QUEEN IN SNOW WHITE, LADY TREMAINE IN CINDERELLA, THE RED QUEEN IN ALICE IN WONDERLAND, CRUELLA DE VIL IN 101 DALMATIONS, MISS MEDUSA IN THE RESCUERS AND MOTHER GOTHEL IN TANGLED). ARIEL WANTS TO KINDLE A ROMANCE WITH PRINCE ERIC, WHOM SHE PREVIOUSLY RESCUED FROM A SHIPWRECK. URSULA TRICKS ARIEL INTO GIVING UP HER VOICE SO THAT SHE CAN HAVE THREE DAYS AS A HUMAN BEING. URSULA KNOWS FULL WELL, HOWEVER, THAT A VOICELESS ARIEL WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ESTABLISH A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRINCE. WITHOUT HER CAPACITY TO SPEAK—WITHOUT THE LOGOS; WITHOUT THE DIVINE WORD—SHE WILL REMAIN UNDERWATER, UNCONSCIOUS, FOREVER. WHEN ARIEL FAILS TO FORM A UNION WITH PRINCE ERIC, URSULA STEALS HER SOUL, AND PLACES IT IN HER LARGE COLLECTION OF SHRIVELLED AND WARPED SEMI-BEINGS, WELL-PROTECTED BY HER FEMININE GRACES. WHEN KING TRITON SHOWS UP TO DEMAND THE RETURN OF HIS DAUGHTER, URSULA MAKES HIM A TERRIBLE OFFER: HE CAN TAKE ARIEL’S PLACE. OF COURSE, THE ELIMINATION OF THE WISE KING (WHO REPRESENTS, TO SAY IT AGAIN, THE BENEVOLENT SIDE OF THE PATRIARCHY) HAS BEEN URSULA’S NEFARIOUS PLAN ALL ALONG. ARIEL IS RELEASED, BUT TRITON IS NOW REDUCED TO A PATHETIC SHADOW OF HIS FORMER SELF. MORE IMPORTANTLY, URSULA NOW HAS TRITON’S MAGIC TRIDENT, THE SOURCE OF HIS GODLIKE POWER. FORTUNATELY FOR EVERYONE CONCERNED (EXCEPT URSULA), PRINCE ERIC RETURNS, DISTRACTING THE EVIL QUEEN OF THE UNDERWORLD WITH A HARPOON. THIS OPENS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ARIEL TO ATTACK URSULA, WHO GROWS, IN RESPONSE, TO MONSTROUS PROPORTIONS—IN THE SAME MANNER AS MALEFICENT, SLEEPING BEAUTY’S EVIL QUEEN. URSULA CREATES A HUGE STORM, AND RAISES A WHOLE NAVY OF SUNKEN SHIPS FROM THE OCEAN FLOOR. AS SHE PREPARES TO KILL ARIEL, ERIC COMMANDEERS A WRECKED SHIP, AND RAMS HER WITH ITS BROKEN BOWSPRIT. TRITON AND THE OTHER CAPTURED SOULS ARE RELEASED. THE REJUVENATED TRITON THEN TRANSFORMS HIS DAUGHTER INTO A HUMAN BEING, SO SHE CAN REMAIN WITH ERIC. FOR A WOMAN TO BECOME COMPLETE, SUCH STORIES CLAIM, SHE MUST FORM A RELATIONSHIP WITH MASCULINE CONSCIOUSNESS AND STAND UP TO THE TERRIBLE WORLD (WHICH SOMETIMES MANIFESTS ITSELF, PRIMARILY, IN THE FORM OF HER TOO-PRESENT MOTHER). AN ACTUAL MAN CAN HELP HER DO THAT, TO SOME DEGREE, BUT IT IS BETTER FOR EVERYONE CONCERNED WHEN NO ONE IS TOO DEPENDENT. ONE DAY, WHEN I WAS A KID, I WAS OUT PLAYING SOFTBALL WITH SOME FRIENDS.
the problem with debating Vaush is that people try to outrace him in the “facts and logic” department instead of asking simple questions that stump him and make him angry. this is why Sargon is the only person who beat him so far. his debate with Vaush is a good resource.
is this from that Molyneux video?….
haz what do you think about people who call capital a "feedback loop" in the sense that an air conditioner is a feedback loop? that's the cybernetic understanding of capitalism you're talking about right?
It's an excerpt from Peterson's book 12 Rules for Life.
Infrared have a weird take on Sakai that's similar to Maupin's "synthetic left" theory. Sakai was in a Japanese concentration camp and has remained pretty low profile and has only done a few interviews since writing the jargon filled book "Settlers" but still Sakai isn't a fed, just a mediocre writer.
What is Haz's or infrared's thoughts on Marxist-Leninism-Maoism?
>>4318>a conservatard beat vaush
I understand you hate vaush, but don't go saying retarded shit in order to kowtow to conservatives. You might as well say dick cheney won against vaush as well.
dick cheney would annihilate vaush in a debate.
you’re a hysterical retard
Haz I've been poking fun but I can't wait for you to destroy Vaush
>striking, thereby impeding production and halting the accumulation of capital by depriving the bourgeois of its ability to harvest surplus value is not direct action but streaming your angry rants to a few dozen NEETs is praxis
>Peterson's mishmash of reactionary positions and his 'motte and bailey' debate strategy cements him as a modern metaphysical philosopher
Really activates the old almonds
>>4304>striking isn't as effective as piracy>This is the dumbest shit.
Well if the point is to hurt porky's bottomline which one do you think would affect him more?
Some walmart employees striking who are replaced by other proles right away
sinking a cargo ship
Thing about Vaush is that he refuses to debate anyone that is smart. He has made a living debating far-right gtifters and little yanke kids from the ddepths of the internet.
He (and this streaming guy) are just poseur bobos.>>4324>You might as well say dick cheney won against vaush as well.>thinks a man who has admitedly even by his detractors held his own in the high echlons for decades would loose a debate with some manboy gamer.anarcho-nihilismAnarcho-Nihilism
o no going now on 4chan
Haz confirmed not against private property in the long-term, kek
What did he say exactly?
>>4317>THUS, URSULA IS IN THE SAME ARCHETYPAL CATEGORY AS THE DRAGON/QUEEN MALEFICENT IN SLEEPING BEAUTY (OR THE JEALOUS OLDER QUEEN IN SNOW WHITE, LADY TREMAINE IN CINDERELLA, THE RED QUEEN IN ALICE IN WONDERLAND, CRUELLA DE VIL IN 101 DALMATIONS, MISS MEDUSA IN THE RESCUERS AND MOTHER GOTHEL IN TANGLED).
Wow this guy is really familiar with the Disney animated canon.
A fascist asked him if he was the type of communist who was against private property and "privitisation" and he said basically "no, i believe in socialism with Chinese characteristics" - don't Dengoids claim non-private-property communism will come after SWCC though?
No, some poltard asked if he was a "commie who wants global abolition of property so gubmint owns everything" and he says he doesn't know what he means by that and just clarifies he supports SWCC
What's the difference? He said private property though
Did you noticed, that Haz is streaming since 6 HOURS straight without eating, drinking or going to the toilet…
he didn't even get up
The energy of this guy. Seriously impressive. I get on a zoom talk for 1 hour and need 10 hours to recover. This nigga is 7 hours streaming responding to retards and doesn't bat an eye.
Man, if that's true, then he really is unstoppable!
he's autistically gone through the gauntlet, and even had a namefag shit up his stream.
Socialism done left sounds like a fine stepping stoneanarchismAnarchism
just shill them and support them on social media if you have. right now they just want to get enough attention so that they can start living rent free in everyone's heads. just share their most controversial points and arguments that will make peoples heads explode.
abolition of private property was always a Lockean error in Marxist thought. capitalist private property is not "the first negation of individual private property, as founded on the labour of the proprietor. " and that's not observable by any account of history. labor alienation in fact predates capitalist private property, not the other way around like Marx is saying.
Fuck you, I almost forgot about Sargon. Why do you have to remind me about that shitstain when we have Vaush?
Does anyone have an archive of the last thread? I wasn't able to reply to any of the responses to my posts due to being out.
>>4347>hyper masculine demeanor
If this is what "hyper masculine" is, then I guess what we define as "normal masculinity" is "ultrahyper masculinity".
ITT leftypol abandons the actually existing workers movement for a streamer because I trigger them that hard.
Absolute kek. Well done you lads who have not been taken in by this grift, kudos, you have made the grade, we will make fine revolutionary soldiers out of you yet.
For the rest of you crypto vaushites, weak minded, clearly more retarded then Haz himself to be taken in by this grift, I would say please stay away from the communist movement but eh, let’s be real none of you have ever lifted a finger and none of you ever will. So, please, just keep doing what you are doing and try not to get in the way too much.
>piracy is more effective then striking
Ancap dengoids up in here wanna talk shit lmao
I have dominated Haz mentally until he has rejected the workers movement hahahah
>>4358>people who represent him
Well, if he’s a worker, that isn’t Haz :)
>>4354>hyper masculinity is when you skip leg day
Know who skips leg day? Narcissists who want to look big, but don’t actually know where strength comes from (legs, back, core, for the most part, arms can’t lift what legs and core can’t hold up, life isn’t a bench press) which is a pretty good microcosm of Haz, he doesn’t know where the workers strength comes from, I.e their ability to organise in order to excite mass collective actions that actively disrupt capital. :):):):):)
>>4361>Know who skips leg day? Narcissists
Shut the fuck up namafag
>>4362>I don’t like namefags but I gobble the fresh faeces of YouTube streamers
Can’t make this shit up 110 keks an hour so it is
>>4358>he's such a capcuck he won't even shill people who represent him without being paid
first off, I don't watch streamers because I'm not a braindead child. second, a fucking two-bit theorylet could never represent me.
You're an absolute embarrassment to the board, and you have zero self awareness. I know you will never realize that you being so desperate to have the last word is completely off-putting to everyone around you, so you will continue sperging out for eternity until you are banned, so I hope mods do this soon so you don't end up posting another 60 seethe posts in this thread.
Don't bother asking any questions about direct action or other autism, I'm not going to answer you.
>>4364>a fucking two-bit theorylet
Get on his stream faggot.
You mean, you can’t answer me, all you can do is seethe
>>4365>debate me bro debate me bro >I will not answer your questions
Hahahahaha>puh…puh…please ban him mods
Ahaha >can’t>handle>the >truth
Noooo don’t organise yourselves into effective units for disrupting capital and making a better life for yourselves nooooooooo just listen to me stream about how Alex Jones and Jordan Peterson and Vaush are actually smart guys noooooo
>millions of organised workers around the world in India, in chile
>the entire history of the labour movement
>the battle of Blair of mountain
>the MAS party, which specially builds power through associations of trade, community unions and the social movement, organised so deep and so strong it can overturn a CIA coup
Haha I don’t believe in that made up shit
>some guy who screams the name of tripfags in leftypol
Omg soooooo true based soy face into oblivion
Sage is becoming our very own lolcow
The workers blocking roads in India good, or bad?
>strike? What is this Anglo shit?
>meanwhile all over the third world trade unionists fight and die for the right to organise.
So the CIA and right wing death squads do they target middle class first world streamers in comfy houses or do they target third world trade union leaders??
Wonder which could be more important to the labour movement.
Imagine being SUCH a soy nerd you would abandon this in order to live vicariously through a streamer. Truly bizzare the modern world is
Very bad. How will the workers get mcdonalds now?
Indeed, like, how are those farmers supposed to get to GameStop if all the roads are blocked? Didn’t they think of this?
>>4378>I am so incorrect and will just keep doubling down rather than admit strikes are direct action
>>4381>muh muh moron >y..y..you’re just an Anglo >but also the third world workers movement is entirely irrelevant all that matters is pampered first world streamers
It ain’t me who is in a dogmatic box kek
Why because I dominated a streamer mentally, no, and am forever based on leftypol
And yet here I am, and you’re still triggered and I’m still laughing
Tbh, if the choice is Sage, or some e-celeb who's main claim to fame is being effectively what he criticizes, I'll take Sage. At least Sage is just one namefag, as opposed to some youtube channel which decided to barge in here one day.
he was invited by the chat multiple times.
sage was BTFOd and he is incapable of taking the L. This is the default when talking with sage.
no self awareness whatsoever.
Lmao, more people voting than are online here. This is just a proxy war now. Also notice how sage isn't talking lol.
>>4386>make a poll to prove your point>get outvoted
Still, still not lovin police, still rock my khakis with a cuff and a crease
Sage, go on stream, ur already doxed. IT WOULD BE JOKESbrocialismBrocialism
>>4391>make a poll>lose in the first 5 minutes >furiously set up proxies
lmao you got btfo by that poll
>>4396>>4396>all the yes votes in the last 5 minutes
ahahah you lot are actually pathetico
Instead of being able to answer the statement: strikes are direct action, you make a poll, lose it, then rig it.
Oh man it feels good to gangsta
lmao like all the 20 votes for "no" that were in the 5 minutes while you weren't talking here
I literally don't care how you define it.
no matter how hard you retards proxy on some poll
How is this even a dichotomy?
Do you think haz is against striking?
>The transformation of scattered private property, arising from individual labour, into capitalist private property is, naturally, a process, incomparably more protracted, arduous, and difficult, than the transformation of capitalistic private property, already practically resting on socialised production, into socialised property.
Marx agrees with Haz.
Its not about defining it its about the FACT that organised labour has always been the main weapon of the proletariat, and the strike is the ultimate weapon of organised labour. The strike DIRECTLY intervenes in capital accumulation as opposed to say, a petition, which merely ASKS.
Haz is a complete brainlet, he has chosen quite honestly the worst possible hill he could die on. Obviously striking is direct action, obviously striking is a more potent weapon for the global workers movement than streaming. Its not even a debate, there shouldn't even be a question.
This has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
rigged polls don't change the fact that strikes are direct action
hahaha you revealed yourself as samefagging lol
I'm not sage kek, rent free
I already voted leave me alone
not sage either strikes are direct action
cope more streamlet
13 minutes ago there were 46 unique IPs, now 6 new people using the same language as sage, but that totally aren't sage, have come to be autistic about striking being direct action.
Nothing suspicious here.
He was winning until you rigged it
how did I rig itrent free
He was rigging it until I rigged it.
>>4390>he was invited by the chat multiple times.
the chat isn't the board
This is so bad it's almost funny.>>4422
It pretty much is.
Not wanting to dox yourself on some degenerate image board is perfectly reasonable.
He could just mask his voice a bit if he's so fucking concerned.
Go to all that effort for a guy who can't admit the objective fact that strikes are direct action and who thinks his stream is more important than the labour movement and yet claims to be a communist. Are you out of your mind?
Not sage, rent free strikes are direct action
>>4426>Go to all that effort for a guy
Sage has posted around 80 posts in the past 24 hours about this (not counting his samefagging)
Haha these capture it so perfectly, on point.
>>4404>Do you think haz is against striking?
he said he was. he said it's useless and a waste of time because most people in the US hate their jobs and don't want to improve it. that's his argument, not mine.
he's talking about alienation, but doesn't know it because he's a theorylet. just because there's alienation doesn't mean the workers are unable to strike or organise. alienation just gets worse as capitalism grows. if people hate their jobs now, wait a bit longer because it will only get worse. and if alienation precludes organising, we're fucked.
luckily, haz is wrong and it doesn't. alienation (hating your job) is the thing that makes you organise, strike and disrupt. alienation is part of the class struggle.
The funny part is he probably isn't actually anti strike, or at least, wasn't until Sage challenged him, he's just doubling down further and further and further because he can't admit to a mistake. >>4433
I am a unionised service industry worker. If you knew anything about the labour movement you'd know there is a lot of union activity in the US in this area. You don't though, just desperately googling things to further double down in order to sniff youtuber farts.
>>4435>he's just doubling down further and further and further because he can't admit to a mistake.
that's quite pathetic, tbh, especially for someone who claims to read philosophy. there is nothing wrong with being wrong, that's how we learn. but, if he's trying to build an audience in the master debater youtube milieu then I can see why he'd do that. it's all about teams and building your fame off of "defeating others epic style". it's anti-intellectual and lame.
>>4434>caleb maupin retweeted >We celebrate the life of our comrade, fellow labor activist, and one of the founders of Salt of the Earth Labor College in Tuscon, Arizona. Anita Torrez, presente!
looks like he can't team up with Haz
Yeh it really is, Sage has literally said he doesn't even think Haz is that bad, just that this error is an important one and he finds it funny Haz won't back down in this way, leading to all this drama. I liked Haz at first but this whole thing is very off putting, makes it look like he can't accept being wrong.
>>4433>24% of the us economy is finance and like 4% is industry.>Strikers have 0 leverage.
holy shit. do you not think service workers are a part of the production process? do you get your groceries from a farm, or from a grocery store, stacked by a clerk, driven by a truck driver, from a warehouse packed by a warehouse worker, driven there by another truck from another warehouse closer to the farm. same applies for industrially made products and everything else. the final price you pay for something includes payment for the service labour that brings it to you, which means their surplus is also being stolen.
hazbots just keep proving they're theorylets.
>muh direct action
take the L
It is Haz who needs to take the L champ and his fans who are throwing huge sections of the proletariat under the bus to own Sage epic style, but in fact they are owning themselves epic style and the longer it goes on the worse it gets
is this now the sage thread?
and derailing the entire fucking board , even a couple of the moderators are obsessed with this loon beyond all reason
sage is fucking annoying, but he is our retard. haz is an outsider who says he was invited. probably by some newfags who haven't been here for past ecelebs.
I think sage's union shit is annoying like a broken record and I like baiting him as much as the next guy, but in this case, objectively, sage is right. the fact that haz can't admit this shows how petty he is.>>4443
this. jannies sucking this guy's dick is sad.
>>4445>haz is an outsider who says he was invited. probably by some newfags who haven't been here for past ecelebs.
Actually I believe it was one of the jannies who brought him here during one of his livestreams
Direct action:>By contrast, electoral politics, diplomacy, negotiation, arbitration are not usually described as direct action […] The aim of direct action is to either obstruct another political agent or political organization from performing some practice to which the activists object, or to solve perceived problems which traditional societal institutions (governments, religious organizations or established trade unions) are not addressing to the satisfaction of the direct action participants.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_action
even fucking worse. it's desperation to drive any traffic to this site, even if it is a bunch of pre-cliqued retards that will destroy the site with their shitty takes
Add Ismail to that group.
>>4445>probably by some newfags who haven't been here for past ecelebs.
I know for a fact that Infrared's biggest shills are oldfags, because I know many of them personally and I am one myself. Some of these oldfags even went on his stream. You're fucking deluded my nigger.
Listen, I understand this isn't intended as racist at all, but you have to understand that if you're an outsider looking in, constantly complaining about "those dirty fucking anglos" is a bad look and if you don't know the context, you're going to assume it's some racist or nationalist shit. like, if I screencapped most of this shit and sent it to my liberal friends their first thought would be that it's some racist shit
That sounds awful, we need to work harder to protect the fragile anglo.
doesn't have leverage>stacked by a clerk
doesn't have leverage>driven by a truck driver, from a warehouse packed by a warehouse worker, driven there by another truck from another warehouse closer to the farm
Those have leverage but can be replaced by tech.
this thread is now sage schizo posting with himself.
then it's amazing how after all these years you've learned so little that you're impressed by haz.
>>4454>>grocery store>doesn't have leverage>>stacked by a clerk>doesn't have leverage
yet those were the jobs deemed essential around the world and we were told if those people stopped working society would collapse.
the fact is, if the stores around you ran out of food, you wouldn't know where you'd get your next meal from. you'd probably eat your neighbour.
MORE LIKE HAZ-NOBRAIN
nah, I'd go back to the farm and eat my family.
Why do you think people are impressed? Every oldfag that has debated haz has generally shown support but strong disagreements. Haz knows what he's saying and his positions aren't far off from any other principled marxist. What exactly is your problem with him?
Not even strong disagreements, that was generous on my part. Mild disagreement. Mostly about his choice of words. If your disagreement is about which words "should be used", then that's kinda retarded.
Or you're just a seething anglo who got triggered by someone with an entirely different philosophical tradition having a different definition than you, and can't let it go. Your anglo-autism is causing you to miss out on a great chance to learn something new and escape the anglo box you've been stuck in for so long.
I couldn't follow what the fuck they were about at first, but the way I approach something new is not to try to pick it apart and hold it up to my anglo scrutiny, but to do my very best to try to understand where they're coming from. Someone having watched a few fragments of their streams, or one or two videos shouldn't be making such harsh judgements already. These guys aren't just random retards who decided to start streaming, they've been a theory group for years and have spent a decade studying these subjects. At least give them a chance.
Yeah, it is a poor choice of words. It does have a reason for being chosen. Maybe there should be a word filter for it.
maybe because "every oldfag that has debated haz" is a theorylet. Haz has said everything is emotional and that people fight for marxism because of feelings. he also said strikes aren't direct action when they clearly are and his hazbots have been in here arguing that service workers can't strike, despite them doing so around the world and achieving results. this tells me they'll deny reality or facts that don't suit them, in favour of "winning", which is for people who watch epic own compilations from debates.>>4463>you're just a seething anglo
I'm slavic.>Someone having watched a few fragments of their streams, or one or two videos shouldn't be making such harsh judgements already. These guys aren't just random retards who decided to start streaming, they've been a theory group for years and have spent a decade studying these subjects.>spent a decade studying these subjects
And the format they use to disseminate their brilliant ideas? Nine hour long livestreams. hahahah
If they want to be taken seriously, they should WRITE like everyone else, not expect people to consume literal days worth of shit material in hopes of swallowing a morsel of wisdom. as it stands, they're just streamers, but instead of video games they browse leftist imageboards, responding to comments without submitting their responses to scrutiny.
you understand that haz looks like he is right because of the format. he responds to comments on an imageboard, but no one can respond to him, he moves onto a next topic and before your brain has had a chance to think about the last thing, he's already onto the next thing. your brain just accepts what he said, because it is easier and allows you to follow along what he's saying, much like you do in a lecture. so how about you give me cliff notes?
Give me five different claims, statements, and/or analyses that you thought were quite poignant, or original, or said something old in a new way. what did haz say that impressed you so much?
>>4465>Give me five different claims, statements, and/or analyses that you thought were quite poignant, or original, or said something old in a new way. what did haz say that impressed you so much?
Literally nobody can fucking say, the only things I've heard out of this haz personality cult is basic marxism but reworded and redefined in the most retarded way possible. They're all worshipping this guy but nobody can say what the fuck he has actually said.
That’s why they like him so much, it makes them feel smart to listen to a bunch of blow hard word salad with some theory jargon thrown in. It’s why the opening thread had the word “heterodox” in it and they kept repeating it, probably a word they heard on some other YouTube stream so they regurgitate it because it sounds smart but they really don’t know what the fuck it means. >talk a bunch of nonsense >throw in some theory terms >in this moment I am euphoric >brainlets that what to feel smart latch on
It is literally Jordan Peterson style pseud shit with some vaush thrown in, but shouted
>>4454>all these jobs don’t have leverage >a streamer has leverage though
This is vomit inducing
>>4466>basic marxism but reworded and redefined in the most retarded way possible
not even, they claim service workers aren't proletarians, using bourgeois economic categories (service industry, manufacturing) instead of marxist categories like productive and unproductive labour.
you know they haven't read Marx, because if they had they wouldn't be saying shit like "service workers have no leverage" or that they're not proletarians. from the man himself:>Only the narrow-minded bourgeois, who regards the capitalist form of production as its absolute form, hence as the sole natural form of production, can confuse the question of what are productive labour and productive workers from the standpoint of capital with the question of what productive labour is in general, and can therefore be satisfied with the tautological answer that all that labour is productive which produces, which results in a product, or any kind of use value, which has any result at all.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1864/economic/ch02b.htm
lol imagine being BTFO beyond the grave by your idol. how will hazbots ever recover?
My body is steel. I trained for years to be able to poop in complete silence.>>4403
Noo. You are wrong, here is why, I do philosophy. You see, in the words of Heidegger, the Führer-state as we have it is the consummation of historical development: the realisation of the people in the Führer
, my fellow leftists.>>4421
>>4470>My body is steel. I trained for years to be able to poop in complete silence.
I want the real Haz to read this out loudly on his next stream and confirm it with a blank look.
>>4465>they're just streamers, but instead of video games they browse leftist imageboards, responding to comments without submitting their responses to scrutiny.
No, that's a tiny fraction of what they do, and they do it because it worked, they've grown a lot. And they invite EVERYONE who shits on them to come on stream and have a debate.>If they want to be taken seriously, they should WRITE like everyone else
Pic related>you understand that haz looks like he is right because of the format. he responds to comments on an imageboard, but no one can respond to him
You've really shown yourself to be a complete fraud. Every stream they've browsed leftypol they've also had people from leftypol on their stream to debate their points, which you'd obviously know if you had watched anything at all, or even browsed the threads where this was discussed. You clearly know absolutely nothing about them, but you have these harsh judgements. Why are you so obsessed with this?>Give me five different claims, statements, and/or analyses that you thought were quite poignant<The socialist part of the dialectic has become dominant.<Analytical philosophy inhibits dialectical thinking<Land reform being critical / the whole Dasein thing<The necessity for psychoanalysis in understanding modern society.<The anglo curse is real
It's a common thing in the age of Twitter that people aren't fully reading the articles they post, instead they only skim for gotchas. You take it to the next level by posting a simple graph without reading it fully.
If you bother to actually read the graph, you will see that "Industrials" is only one category of industry, used if a company doesn't fit into a more specific one, like chemicals or motor vehicles.
>>4472>The socialist part of the dialectic has become dominant.
This means absolutely nothing practically>Analytical philosophy inhibits dialectical thinking
Who cares, what does this mean practically?>Land reform being critical / the whole Dasein thing
Define land reform, I mean yeah, land reform of some form is kind of a fucking given>The necessity for psychoanalysis in understanding modern society.
How does this help us achieve socialism? What the fuck does this mean?
How light we get that I wonder? Maybe… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_direct_action_groups
the list of direct action groups which was used against me yesterday, which included :https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landless_Workers%27_Movement
You guys beat yourselves out so hard
Jesus, Sage. Give it a rest. You are becoming a laughing stock.
Anglos really do live rent free in everyone's mind, don't they
>>4476>please stop hitting me it hurts
>>4474>what does it really mean *practically*, give me a hard definition I can take into my anglo box, you must be able to communicate these ideas perfectly to find them interesting or wanting to learn more
Pure fucking anglo.
This video is quite good if you really want something condensed that shows where they're coming from.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbu-AAlqDJg&t
>>4472><The socialist part of the dialectic has become dominant.
that means nothing 0/5><Analytical philosophy inhibits dialectical thinking
doesn't say much, other than that marxism and analytical philosophy are incompatible… no shit 0/5><Land reform being critical / the whole Dasein thing
it's a babby reads first philosopher and agrees with everything episode, 0/5><The necessity for psychoanalysis in understanding modern society.
Žižek and Mark Fisher have said this too, but it counts, so 1/5><The anglo curse is real
gave up too soon, still 1/5
This is such a fucking shallow get out, either define what you fucking mean or go jerk off in a corner you dumb cocksucker
No, I'm not here to defend Infrared's positions, I'm here to expose you as someone who only shits on them out of pure anglo seethe, and not out of any actual critique of their positions, which you have proven to do nothing to understand.
you should call more people anglo over and over,I'm sure it will make them understand they are "anglo".
Of course not being able to express your reasoning is eastern enlightment,we anglo are too behind to understand.
Maybe you should stop seething about theory you have done nothing to understand. Is Marxism bad theory if I can't explain it properly?
If you understand it, then it shouldn't be hard for you to summarise it, as that is how you show understanding.
I *don't* understand it. This branch of theory is brand new to me, which is why I joined a reading group for material related to this.
>>4483>I'm here to expose you
Oh no, you gonna get exposed by the Heideggerian Socialist NEET gang, son! Game over man, game over.
>>4487>I *don't* understand it.
and yet you said… >>4479>This video is quite good if you really want something condensed that shows where they're coming from.
So summarise for us where they're coming from.
>>4487>I don’t understand it but I know it’s correct enough to toss out the historical workers movement
What the fuck is wrong with you people seriously
You really don't seem to get it, I'm not here to explain or defend anything, I'm here to stop your seething and get you to do some actual research yourself if you're interested in rebutting their positions.>>4490>but I know it’s correct enough to toss out the historical workers movement
This is a very strange strawman. Do you mind clarifying?
>>4491>do some actual research>watch this 30 minute video>actual research
GIMME WORDS ON A PAGE NIGGA
Then this guy >>4472
says Haz doesn't write anything because people wouldn't understand him. What a fucking joke.
Fine, don't research then, don't watch their videos, I don't fucking care, just don't seethe all over the place please.
>>4491>You really don't seem to get it, I'm not here to explain or defend anything
so you've been beat out thoroughly and now you are vigorously back pedalling and pretending you aren't a Haz been kek. Hazbots are jumping ship already its only been a couple days
The burden of proof is on you, the I can Haz cheeseburgers brain
I don't know what you're talking about, I never claimed to understand it. If you think backpedaling is joining a reading group, you must be retarded.>>4495
Proof of what, exactly? What my claim has been in this is only that you haven't done anything to understand it, not that I understand it. I could have watched 5 minutes of their stream and my positions here would be equally justified.
Wow the infrasimps really are a bunch of retards, at first I was like, meh. Then I was like, lol, now I'm like, can you please fuck off and stop shitting up this board. This is cult like behaviour, in the face of all facts and reality you still shill this retard, with people even saying that they don't understand but agree anyway, what on earth? Know what I think? Lockdown got people lonely and isolated, they are looking for any kind of relationship, and this guy is less far off than the other streamers they watch, he might actually respond to them in chat, so they feel special being part of the club, and he shouts about stuff, and they feel like shouting most of the time but never can really do it because they are weak, and so they flock around this show of strength, even though its just that, a show, based on weak foundations because Haz skips leg day
so further proof is a mod clique and thats why this thread gets to be outside of the internet general. Shit mod takes and tasts get preference because they are mods.
Sage is literally right about everything. We need a cultural revolution on this board to get rid of internet brained pretentious soy boys
Sage has mentally dominated Haz it is clear
>>4497>with people even saying that they don't understand but agree anyway, what on earth?
Where did I say I agree? You're talking out of your fucking ass, but this perfectly fits with the way the Anglo seethers generally act. To them infrared is personal, they must either like the person or dislike the person, which is also why they only think about haz, but never respond to anything anyone else has said. They see his cringe behaviour when he acts like a gorilla, which I agree is cringe, and latch onto that and dismiss it all because they don't want to be associated with cringe.
I think infrared say a lot if things that make intuitive sense to me, they identify many problems within the Western left, and the responses within these threads have just confirmed how unable the Western left is to deal with new things that don't immediately fit in their autism box.
Most mods seethe about infrared too, actually. Come on matrix and ask them.
>>4500>where did I say I agree>immediately proceeds to bring up Haz talking points
Everybody can see through this. Everybody.
I don't understand the seethers. Just walk away from the screen. Like nigga close your eyes.
What does this mean? I've admitted to not understanding it, so of course I don't agree or disagree. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I agree on certain things that I do understand, for instance the extreme dogmatism and hand wringing of the Western left when confronted with something new, as presented ITT.
Aaaand back to sage making the thread about his pet peeve. Make your own thread about unionism.
Move along now, anglo.
So you have noted that direct action is based and strikes are direct action. Cool. If we can admit this now, I will indeed move along. >>4507>m…m…make your own thread
chat shit get hit bitch, and he chatted shit, and now hes getting hit
I have noted that this is the anglo opinion.
Go on his youtube channel and whine at him in the comments there.
Haz is a middle class American. He is a defacto anglo lmao >>4511
this is the Haz thread is it not? The one where the thread maker called me out? I see, so a thread can be made at my expense, but I'm not allowed to respond. Got it, not seems clear to me now.
Anglo is a state of mind.
No, you have made two threads about infrared about direct action. Make a thread about direct action.
This is like when fascists pretend not to be fascists. Pathetic.
Lmao, really grasping at straws here.
Indeed, which one might get into by being in Anglo society, so, middle class America. >>4514
I haven't made any threads at all. Here is you denying observable reality again, for those that want to observe, scroll to the OP, where you will see clearly it was not me who made this thread. Sorry I disagreed with your waifu, will you stop crying if I give you some icecream and a hug?
I never said you made a thread you illiterate fuck, I said you turned infrared threads into threads about direct autism.
This is not a thread for direct autism, make a thread for direct autism.
I'm a total simp, I never denied that. I'm extremely enthusiastic about learning this shit.
Your family or background or genetics is not destiny. That's rightoid ideology.
here you are again, denying observable reality again, here is your post, directly copied and pasted "No, you have made two threads about infrared about direct action. Make a thread about direct action."
>This is not a thread for direct autism, make a thread for direct autism.
I am commenting on Haz's position. Lmao what a cuck. >>4522
so haz should stop banging on about Anglos then shouldn't he. I was talking about class position, not race or ethnicity like he is lmao. Radlib idpol is what hes bringing i'll stick to class and class struggle
You have made about 150 posts about it, which derails the threads entirely. Please make a thread for it, and I'm sure those who are interested will come respond to you there.>>4525
Learning Lacan, Heidegger, Zizek etc.
Stick to class then, but being poor is not an achievement, it is not as simple as that.
>>4524>not race or ethnicity like he is lmao
He's not, he has been very explicit about this. It has to do with analytic philosophy, the British Empire and a bunch of other things.
>Haz: Strikes are not direct action
>Hazbens: NO STOP YOU'RE BEING DOGMATIC
Haz argues that strikes at the scale necessary to make change in modern society can not be called direct action because they happen at the level of institution, and are thus indirect action.
Whether you agree or not, fuck sage for derailing the threads with this pedantic shit. Pure fucking autism.
sage is based and you people deserve to be hounded on your horseshit
>>4526>Learning Lacan, Heidegger, Zizek etc.
I CAN HAZ HEIDEGGER?
Who would have thought that /leftypol/ would fall for twitter-tier takes given in the vaush format. I thought /usapol/ got left in the bunker
something something liberals
Do you have any actual critique of their takes or are you just here to seethe?
Nah I really just don't like the format, I'm not going to watch a 6 hour livestream I've got a job
this thread is full of retards screaming at a namefag autistically sperging out about shit no one gives a fuck about, what do you think?
How does it derail the thread? It is on topic, Haz Haz a position I disagree with, so I am talking about it. No I will not be quiet and go away just because it causes you cognitive dissonance >>4527
Nobody said being poor was an achievement, all I’m saying is strikes and other direct action are a fundamental part of the class struggle. >>4528
So explain exactly how saying strikes are direct action is something to do with analytic philosophy and the British empire then. >>4530
Haz may argue this, I’ve just posted 2 different trade unionists who disagree, on top of posting many of my own arguments. Nobody has actually answered my response: scale and institutional organisation don’t stop them being direct action, because direct action is something which directly intervene in the processes of capitalism, namely, the commodity form, the wage system, rentierism and debt collection. On top of that, as Wade Rathke points out, a strike or direct action on almost any scale requires organising, some actions as he points out are spontaneous, but very few. Answer this: what makes a strike of 100 hotel workers direct action, but a strike of 32,000 teachers not direct action? Where do you draw the line? 150 workers? 1000 workers? Maybe you think it’s lower 50 workers (the staff of a large popular restaurant for example)>derailing
Talking about what Haz believes in the Haz thread is not derailing. >>4531
Thanks, and yes they do. >>4532
That ain’t me kek rent free
Why is this even a thread? Don't we have a containment thread for this kind of internet shit?
Groups consciously doing things for their benefit requires coordination. You don't have coordination without institutional elements. To decry anything with these elements as haram means you are only left with two options for getting change:
a) being a spectator hoping for superheroes doing it for you (Potterism-Marvelism)
b) joining mobs entirely following their spontaneous whims (like football hooligans).
I sure wish sage had actual things to do instead of repeating the same trivialities over and over.
>>4542>To decry anything with these elements as haram
What are you referring to here?
It's a way for leftypol to interact with tyler1~~~~infrared streams without a youtube account. It also contains the discussion that would otherwise slide /IG/ since the thread is more like a chat.
kinda, I'm not getting on a yt stream chat.
>>4545>communist theory group of 12 people is the same as one guy's gaming stream.
Gulag yourself, comrade.
>>4547>communist theory group<that hasn't written any theory
I'm a one man Marxist-Leninst state, come at me bro
>>4548<that hasn't written any theory
You don't know that at all, but that's not what I meant either, I meant they study theory together. You have to appreciate the fact that they managed to get this many people together to read the same shit and develop a somewhat unified line of thought that they manage to put into video format.
I'm watching the stream and it's fascinating that beyond all the curse words how politely Haz was handling the Sage Question. First he asked his mods to start deleting Sage's spam, but allow him to ask questions in good faith. Then he asks the mods to give Sage a 5 minute timeout, because he's still acting crazy.
Adult vs. child, basically.
Can we do activism, listen to youtube streamers and mind our business at the same time?
This is such a fucking non-issue
Can we talk about how flunker wants them to check out their site? I feel they have bigger problems right now.
It's like you just fell into an open sewer and immediately try to come on to a lady after getting out, while dripping wet.
lmao dollars is desperate.
>>4549>You don't know that at all
That's what this anon said >>4472
He literally claims Haz hasn't written anything because people wouldn't understand it.
Sage, I do agree that strikes, unions, etc are good and maybe in your life you did a lot of good but it isn't direct action.
Can you not read? It says he won't release the things he has written.
Strikes will only give you a lil bit more pay, or better working conditions. It's not enough to change the political economy.
Sage can no longer respond to this thread because a mod, who simps for Haz, has banned him spuriously, because he can't handle Sages advanced dialectic and the mental domination of Haz, his waifu
this is why Sage was banned
Oops, you forgot you previously used your trip on this IP. Samefagging is hard to do.
Most of the IPs jumping in to defend sage and talk about his issues were fresh IPs only used in this thread, and he has been caught samefagging before.
Any further derail about unionization and direct action in this thread will be banned and deleted, and special attention will be paid to sage and his antics.
>>4567>Just because you're annoyed with a tripfag
This is beyond annoyance. There were moments on the live stream where 9/10 comments were made by Sage in the chat, and he turned this thread into being about him.
sage, because Sage
>>4465>you understand that haz looks like he is right because of the format. he responds to comments on an imageboard, but no one can respond to him,
He will literally have anyone on who messages him for a zoom link, you're wrong.
And he answers everything in the chat.
people think direct action = good and indirect action = bad lmaooo
and they’re projecting it onto haz
If anyone wants to debate Haz, you can dm him on twitter. Otherwise, quit fagging out.
The mods are samefagging and deleted all posts against Haz, I was banned for telling the truth
This post won’t be removed and the user won’t be banned but I was banned for talking about this topic, curious
No he doesn’t he cherry picks and ignores anything that beats him out
fiction:>The mods are samefagging and deleted all posts against Haz
reality: sage, a tripfag, derail the thread constantly and thus he was banned. every other post critiquing Infrared is still up.
fiction:>I was banned for telling the truth
reality: you were banned because derailing this thread and the live stream itself. You were inviting again and again to have a zoom session with Haz and a live debate, but you are a complete coward.>>4576
fiction:>I was banned for talking about this topic
reality: you were banned for derailing and spamming the thread.>>4577
fiction:>[Haz] doesn’t [answer everything] he cherry picks and ignores anything that beats him out
reality: Sage's "arguments" in that live chat included: "I bet you never had a girlfriend, Haz"
Reminder that Sage is going down the tripfag rabbithole right before our eyes. The kid is clearly insane and should leave the internet for his own sake, unless he wants to end up like Rebel.
The mod who banned me agrees with Haz about the topic that I am no longer allowed to talk about. Weird isn’t it
It isn’t derailing to talk about the subject at hand
Take all whining about mods to >>>/meta/
dubious claim:>The mod who banned me agrees with Haz
reality: it doesn't matter if that mode agrees with Haz or not, because you are being banned for derailing, tripfagging up, and spamming the thread. Not everything is about you in this world.
sage, for the love of god. What are you doing? Don't you feel embarrassed? I do, I feel second hand embarrassment by the way you are acting.
Talking about the subject at hand is not derailing
Don’t care lol that’s on you I feel great
also ban fucking tripfags
Nobody give this faggot anymore attention.
This whole thread should be in IG anyway but it isn’t why is this? Mods have favourites I see
Anyway so can someone give me a quick run down on infrareds deal, I'm not going to watch days worth of livestream
How is your pets thread now mods? Guess it would have been easier to admit that censored are censored action
Pseuds shouting at leftypol comments
I decided without asking permission to create a Reddit for these guys. Since Haz said last stream will be the last time responding to posts on here unless chat demanded him too.
Post memes, screenshots, discussions, etc here. This also means after this thread dies we should calm down and keep discussion contained in /IG/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ShowInfrared/
Lol sorry, clicked the wrong post. Ban is lifted.
>>4557>It says he won't release the things he has written.
How do you know he has written them? Because he says he has? Wanna buy a bridge while you wait?
Did I say I know he has written them? WHY WONT IT READ?
lol what is your point faggot? how do you know the geocentric model is true? does it matter?
>>4597>he hasn't written anything>he has written it, by won't release it
the result is the fucking same: 0 theory from him or his little "theory group"
He's just another angry shouty yanke trying to live there pathology of being famous. nothing to see.
What is the point of writing theory to not release it?
It's worse than those trot groups who make newspapers for their 10 members to read.
Maybe it's because their theory isn't complete?
Maybe it's because they're not ready to release it?
So you are saying that they will release it?
>>4602>What is the point of writing theory to not release it?
ingroup working over before going public w it?
>>4602>What is the point of writing theory to not release it?
apparently hazbots think that means Haz is smarter than everyone else and holds some promethean knowledge inaccessible to mere mortals and the path to understanding it lies in watching his 9 hour streams where he just screams at posts on the internet. but don't worry, this is actually the new academia, youtube university, the thunderdome of debates where only the most epic survive.
They said they eventually will, yes.
lmao such a burgerfaggot mischaracterization
Fair. Not sure why people are even bringing it up then.>>4608
I though infrared was burger?
>>4609>I though infrared was burger?
They are from all over the world.
How does infrared being "burger" stop you from making a burger mischaracterization?
alright, characterise him properly then
wasn't me and I thought you were saying that burgers were attacking them
Why should I have to? I'm not the one who is fagging out and making mischaracterizations. If you have a problem with him, then fucking appear on his stream or message him.
haz said he would some day interpreted as: hasn't written shit
>>4615>Why should I have to?
Because you're saying my characterisation is wrong. If it was, then you wouldn't have a problem with coming up with an alternative. but seeing as you can only seethe and say "no" it makes me think I'm close to the mark.>If you have a problem with him, then fucking appear on his stream or message him.
I will do it as soon as I see some sort of claim from him. As it stands, there's literally nothing to debate, he's a guy who comments on internet posts.
>>4617>>4617>I will do it as soon as I see some sort of claim from him. As it stands, there's literally nothing to debate, he's a guy who comments on internet posts.
Have you even clicked on their channel? Why do you decide to come in here and shit all over the place if you have not spent any time at all on the subject?
because it makes me feel real smart and smug. please don't address my baseless assertions otherwise you're a debatebro ok?
>>4618>Have you even clicked on their channel?
Yes, I have… 8 hour long streams and 30-45min videos, am I supposed to watch all of it and try to identify his arguments? Why should I do that? Is it up to me to read every work by every author on the planet, or should the "theorist" make his work accessible?
Did you watch anything, like just one thing?read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book
he didn't start replying to internet comments until the youtube comments asked him to. he had no intention of doing the shit he does today when he started this channel.
I did. Watch the one a few nights ago, when he was arguing with sage. two things I remember>everything is emotional, people fight for marxism because of feelings>people hate their jobs, therefore they will not strike, wish to unionise or democratically control their workplace
before we continue, do you think that is a fair characterisation of those two positions?
Importantly why do you want theory from somebody completely divorced from our respective movements? Why do you want theory from some random yankee child who plays video games? What makes his unreleased theory of more value than hundreds of thousands of others doubtlessly more qualified?
>>4622>e had no intention of doing the shit he does today when he started this channel.
And yet he gets baited into autistically screeching at things online? Why do you all idolize this looser?
>>4624>completely divorced from our respective movements?
What do you mean?>Why do you want theory from some random yankee child who plays video games?
Why are you so mad?>What makes his unreleased theory of more value than hundreds of thousands of others doubtlessly more qualified?
Who said it is?>>4625>baited
They know this is how to get subscribers from leftypol.
loaded question. why do you let me do anal to your wife every night before she swallows my cum?
>>4626>They know this is how to get subscribers from leftypol.
Yey. A half dozen of the more naive leftypol zoomers. What a coup..>>4626>What do you mean?
I mean he isn't imerssed in leftists projects, activism, academia, anything. He's just some random yankee screaming into a screen and declaring himself the Top Communist despite having contributed exactly nothing.
Btw. It's very obvious you are either this faggot or one of his friends. You are so bad at this.
unlike me. I'm a nonrandom yankee screaming at the screen declaring myself the top communist.
>>4628>Yey. A half dozen of the more naive leftypol zoomers. What a coup..
Like 100 subscribers from leftypol and 70 watching during stream. Pretty nice for such a small channel. And some of our more famous posters like DDR-anon and Ginjeet were on their stream debating/discussing with them.>Btw. It's very obvious you are either this faggot or one of his friends. You are so bad at this.
Lol, some next level paranoia.
>>4626>00 subscribers from leftypol
Doubt. Most of them are probably his faggy steam friends.>>Lol, some next level paranoia.
Yes. Because you are here just defending some rando amerifat for absolutely no reason. right.
They had like 20 people watching their streams before leftypol, now it's 70-80. Cope seethe and cum.
If you have issues with these points, go ask him what he means or ask him to elaborate.
and that's my point, if he had his arguments written down there would be no need to ask him on his live stream, but we'd have a reference. this way it is always possible to deflect, like you did now.
I'm not the guy you were talking to, but I have never seen any other youtuber held up to this scrutiny, and Infrared answer every question asked in their chat
>>4635>any other youtuber
he is not any other youtuber according to hazbots, he is part of a "twelve person theory group that has been doing research for over ten years"
I got that from here:>>4463>These guys aren't just random retards who decided to start streaming, they've been a theory group for years and have spent a decade studying these subjects.
Well Haz said he's been a communist for over ten years, when Infrared started might have been later.
The thing is they aren't just bluffing, what they're trying to do is create a platform for 21st century Marxist-Leninist. /leftypol/ found them early and many anons are thus directly engaging with them.
First off all, Haz is an entertaining person. He isn't just a boring nerd, he will use vulgarities and call you names. That's a large reason for their appeal, second is the fact they make some provoking statements that forces you to think about how are political economy is today, and not just dogmatically adopt positions because you read them in a book that was written 100 years ago.
>>4217>irish scot = anglo
get out anon. :^C
who the fuck is haz? what is this bullshit about anglos????
anglo = liberalanarchismAnarchism
>>4575>The mods are samefagging
sure sage sure
YES about HoW 9/11/ was a InsiDe Job, 100% related lel
>>4638>they make some provoking statements that forces you to think about how are political economy is today
tell me three of these provoking statements>not just dogmatically adopt positions because you read them in a book that was written 100 years ago
that ain't me, I actually read contemporary theory (like endnotes, for example).
"We already live in socialism" is one which freaked this board out.
>>4645>"We already live in socialism"
literally burger tier
Haz been and all his zoomer followers should be put in Sages supermax gulag
What do you think of his argumentation for this position?
Not that guy but I think what Haz calls socialism is more aptly described as the managerial, post war state. If management and central banks are socialism, then that leads you to a more reactionary "burn it all down" position not towards seizing that structure for social use, since that structure is shit to begin with and is designed to serve capital not society.
Reminder to use the reddit to leave criticisms of Infrareds theoretical positon so they can clarify it next stream. https://www.reddit.com/r/ShowInfrared/
That last tweet is literally nonsense. What the fuck is an "idle guarantee of truth"? We can debate different theories of knowledge and what constitutes truth, but just writing shit without defining terms is stupid.>Truth is the conclusion, not premise of living reality.
In this moment, I am euphoric.
I think his argument is more along the lines of "socialism for the rich", as a way to advocate "socialism for the poor".
That's just a rehashing of marx's takes on epistemology.
Haz hates nerds, despite himself being a giga nerd. curious.
I haven't seen much, so kind of talking out of my ass. I think it means "socialism is a vacuous word. it is intelligible between marxists, sure but everyone outside of the marxist sphere understand socialism as another thing. might as well embrace that definition seeing as how we're going to be talking to that people, and weaponizing the word".
>>4579>You were inviting again and again to have a zoom session with Haz and a live debate, but you are a complete coward.
That's fucking cringe. Who the fuck challenges some chat rando to a live debate? What does either party gain from such a thing?
The major problem with western leftists is their inability to listen and learn from the most advanced section of the proletariat, those in the global south/third world. Rando MLs who sit around crafting their own theory and MTWs are just as bad as socdems and anarchists
>>4660>What does either party gain from such a thing?
Ironing out their differences and learning something? That's what every debate they've had has been.
Pretty sure Infrared would agree with this.
Well if you start trying to argue in chat the guy streaming has the advantage since he's speaking, when joining zoom and have an ability to speak you can better represent your position.
“Socialism for the rich” is simply rich people being class conscious.
Western leftists have to engage with totally different material conditions than leftists in the third world. You can't apply western leftist theory on the third world, the same way you can't apply leftist theory from the third world on western conditions!
Isn't this the "we should rebrand as super capitalists" but unironically meme?
how can one man be so based?
entertainment and education. ??? why do you ask so obvious questions. >>4661
That is literally infrared's point.
no, it's "listen to the proles and adopt their language". At least what I understand.
>>4662>Ironing out their differences and learning something? That's what every debate they've had has been.
No, that's a discussion or a dialogue, not a debate. Internet youtube debates have practically never resulted in this, and being so autistic so as to challenge some other chat autist to a debate, with the accusation that he's a coward if he doesn't accept, is something I thought was lost to the days of 2014 "debate me" faggots. Apparently though there are those who keep that tradition alive. Fucking imageboard "debates" are more conducive then stream debates, because at least you can plan out fully what you are going to say and attach information relevant to it, and you're not held to some false social standard of respecting what is being said out of a need to defend your now public persona.
and "proles" here is problematic for a bunch of reasons. if you want a tl;dr, whenever the question of "who is a prole" is brought up, there is inevitably someone who believes unless you live in a barrel, you aren't a prole but "muh PMC".>>4672
just watch any of the "debates". they're all really good and not "debate me bro shapiro" garbage.
I mean every zoom call has been a discussion/dialog.
>>4673>just watch any of the "debates". they're all really good and not "debate me bro shapiro" garbage.
No, because I'm not terminally online, and likely nothing is actually being truly discussed outside of what amounts to an impotent round of patty cake or an attempt to garner agreement by presentation. Every day that goes by, the more I hate every aspect of politics as done through social media. The idea of subscribing to some channel as if you were pushing it forward as you would an actual movement is fucking alien to me. I don't get why any leftist here would use any of it.
why is haz an angloid
owning your internet enemies with facts n logic
>>4666>asked to define a term he used<spergs out
a real academic
haz is a schizo anglo
nooo don't you understand deffinitions are completelly idle angloid ilussions
"idle guarantee of meaning" sounds like some jordan peterson shit.
Also, I'm sure you must be familiar with their theory but just in case: https://gplpcp.wordpress.com/
Try making a reddit post, last stream he said he wouldn't spend so much time on /leftypol/ threads from now on. https://www.reddit.com/r/ShowInfrared
>>4675>No, because I'm not terminally online
Okay that's fine, but why do you spend your precious few moments online shitting on something you refuse to try to understand?
He said he was familiar with shining path, he just didn't know that one general.
>I have this epic theoretical work guys I just haven't published it yet
Mark my words. Haz is going to be the Yanderedev of radical theory.>>4685>Try making a reddit post
lol Hazfags trying to control the conversation. Too bad you can't delete posts here…
>>4688>lol Hazfags trying to control the conversation. Too bad you can't delete posts here…
The reddit isn't censored, you're free to post screenshots or start a discussion thread on reddit. For all that it's worth make a hate thread, the thing is next stream they will unlikely comb through this thread while almost certainly go through the reddit posts.
>>4687>he just didn't know that one general.
Haz thought, that Sendero Luminoso is the name of the "general" :D
Eh I don't remember exactly what he said. Maybe.
>>4688>you can’t delete
Yes you can. Try it some time!
>>4666>seeth seeth seeth
why does he speak like a 12 year old /pol/ user crossposting on /his/? He thinks this will attract people to him?
Next time share their stream on some esoteric board on 8kun >:D
why are you inviting them to come piss on us?
Join his stream and give him a 20 min TL;DR to him and his audience.
You know Sage dropped his tripfag for this flag and is still absolutely butthurt by this thread being spammed with one liners like
>haz is schizo
>haz is pseud
>haz is anglo
>>4666>circlejerks on twitter with his one follower>over a term he invented, but never explained
oh no no no they're like kids on a playground. like when a kid calls you some insult you don't understand, then parades triumphantly because telepathy isn't a thing and high fives the other 8yos.
BS. he is as yank as they come.
>>4686>shitting on something you refuse to try to understand?
No, I already get it, it's the debate I have no need to watch. What there is to "get" is as worthless as any of the other aspects of the left that Haz criticizes, and his retarded position on trying to make Marxist Leninism mainstream, while also convolutedly adding to its ideological background with Deleuze and Heidegger, is something I could imagine only being done by someone who wants to appear like they are doing something, while doing as little as possible.
He’s been banned by the mods for dunking on Haz so no, it’s not him
Caleb Maupin supports the trade union struggle as primary. Haz IS the synthetic left
>>4706>Caleb Maupin supports the trade union struggle as primary
Haz claims streaming is a more relevant praxis than union organising for 21st century socialists
he claimed that streaming > direct action
only fucking Sage is so dense to still claim that union work / strikes are direct action. How sour you must be, holy fucking shit. Get over it already, dude, you've been BTFO.
>>4709>only fucking Sage is so dense to still claim that union work / strikes are direct action
Strikes are direct action. Read a fucking book, illiterate mongoloid. And it's not a strawman if you CONFIRMED IT RETARD.
>>4626>>completely divorced from our respective movements>What do you mean?
What that user means is probably unions and to a lesser extent parties (inb4 getting banned for talking about unions and parties on a "radical" imageboard). Before you sperg out about Keir Starmer or whatever, please be aware that people from other places than the UK or USA are also posting here. From what I gathered I guess
Haz is a NEET with parents rich enough to finance his life. The political views people have are almost always fundamentally anchored by their position in life and only nudged somewhat by theorizing and reading. (Individuals who let themselves be thrown around by the books they read have a screwed intuition about the power of arguments in winning over somebody.) I don't need to know exactly which company people work at, but I want to be sure that the people I interact with are working class. We on the left could avoid a lot of wrecking behavior by narcissists if we simply had some standards of not allowing kids of landlords etc. into our groups.>>4638>Well Haz said he's been a communist for over ten years, when Infrared started might have been later. >The thing is they aren't just bluffing
You either don't know this or you are talking about yourself in the third person.>>4655>That last tweet is literally nonsense. What the fuck is an "idle guarantee of truth"?
I guess wanting timeless facts when facts change all the time (note that this is not the same as saying everything is subjective opinion; e.g. what is the fastest available means of transportation depends on the time and place). >>4657
is probably right.>>4704
Yeah. Haz is terrible at communicating common tropes of Marxism to people who are already familiar with them and agree with them. Don't spend ten minutes with an article I wrote, watch ten hours of me being a sperg on stream (and install proprietary spyware to interact with me, but that's a given).
This is atrocious. How is somebody with a full-time job supposed to engage with this?>>4709>only fucking Sage is so dense to still claim that union work / strikes are direct action
No, that is very common. Far more common than stating the opposite. English Wikipedia says: "Nonviolent direct action may include sit-ins, strikes, street blockades…" Both German and Spanish Wikipedia list the strike (Streik, huelga) as an example of direct action as well. Wikipedia saying it shouldn't matter much, so here's more.
Émile Pouget wrote in L’action directe that the general strike is the highest form of direct action:<Et ce sera l’Action directe portée à son maximum : la Grève Générale !
Direct Action by Voltairine De Cleyre:<Every person who ever in his life had a difference with anyone to settle, and went straight to the other persons involved to settle it, either by a peaceable plan or otherwise, was a direct actionist. Examples of such action are strikes…http://www.spunk.org/library/writers/decleyre/sp001334.html
Rudolf Rocker also put strikes forward as an example of direct action.
This Haz guy is just Angry Muke.
>>4710>institutionalized [i.e. mediated] struggle is direct [i.e. non-mediated] struggle
>>4711>We on the left could avoid a lot of wrecking behavior by narcissists if we simply had some standards of not allowing kids of landlords etc. into our groups.
True, and yet, kids of petit-bourgs are often the most motivated and idealistic, they've had the chance to be educated due to their background and they overall often don't have the same fatalistic outlook as their more 'authentically' working class counterparts since life hasn't been as cruel to them personally. So it's a trade off yknow?
>>4711>From what I gathered I guess Haz is a NEET with parents rich enough to finance his life.
He's privileged but he's not a NEET. He studies law.>but I want to be sure that the people I interact with are working class.
This is honestly silly. Many famous communists were petty bourg or straight up bourg - Marx, Engels, Lenin, Castro, Che etc.
You guess? Infrared is selling themselves as a serious theory group, we shouldn't be guessing what they mean. >wanting timeless facts when facts change all the time
That's a tautology, if you say facts change all the time then it is impossible to have "timeless facts", therefore that's just stating the obvious and not a new contribution. >>4657
is probably right
How is he probably right? He said "rehashing of marx", which is something you say to sound smart, knowing that no one will challenge it because doing so would be admitting you don't know. And if it's rehashing of Marx, why invent terminology no one knows? And in what way is it a rehashing of Marx?
>>4715>He studies law.
lawyers aren't proles, they're class enemies. another reason to hate haz, cool.
>>4711>>The thing is they aren't just bluffing>You either don't know this or you are talking about yourself in the third person.
Just basing that of the streams I've seen where anons from this site entered their Zoom.
Marx studied law :^)
The difference between Haz and Marx, is that Haz isn't Marx.
The skills and experience you gain as a law student could benefit you in other careers – such as politics
>>4716>Infrared is selling themselves as a serious theory group, we shouldn't be guessing what they mean.
Should be obvious from my post that I don't consider them to be that.>And in what way is it a rehashing of Marx?
Pro-capitalist writers tend to describe capitalism like a plane that is flying, and that has always been flying, and that will never come down. They attribute behaviors specific to the social relations as being due to never-changing aspects of human psychology. For Marxists, a big pile of mainstream common-sense assumptions are either wrong or have an expiration date. I agree that it's not particularly exciting news if you already have even a tiny bit of familiarity with Marx and that Infrared are bad communicators.
>>4716>How is he probably right? He said "rehashing of marx", which is something you say to sound smart, knowing that no one will challenge it because doing so would be admitting you don't know. And if it's rehashing of Marx, why invent terminology no one knows? And in what way is it a rehashing of Marx?
All this seethe. If you don't know just ask. wtf.
It's marx's epistemological take. I don't see him "inventing" terminology. Are people not allowed to say marxist things without literally copy pasting marx like scripture?
>>4724>If you don't know just ask. wtf.>It's marx's epistemological take.
I asked, you idiot.>in what way is it a rehashing of Marx?
Tell me, oh master marxist, what is Marx's epistemological stance and how is it reflected in the term "idle guarantee of truth"?>>4723>I agree that it's not particularly exciting news if you already have even a tiny bit of familiarity with Marx and that Infrared are bad communicators.
A new kid on the block can't just start spewing shit and assume we know they know what they're talking about. The new kid has to show us they have an understanding of the material, before they start "teaching". If you apply to be a professor, the uni will expect you to show some kind of proof that you know that which you want to teach. But with this guy, we're just supposed to accept he isn't talking nonsense, because he said he has studied it.
I also studied nuclear chemistry, come watch my stream as I DESTROY scientists by browsing arxiv.org, commenting on abstracts.
>>4725>"idle guarantee of truth"
*or "idle guarantee of meaning", in true JBP fashion he uses words with different meanings interchangeably.
Most people who think Infrared is retarded wouldn't have seen the poll anyway because they ignore the threads about it.
You know what self-selection bias is, which already puts you in the elite around these parts, but you are making another error. That isn't the object of the poll, consider both could be true at the same time.
>>4725>If you apply to be a professor, the uni will expect you to show some kind of proof that you know that which you want to teach. But with this guy, we're just supposed to accept he isn't talking nonsense, because he said he has studied it.
If you need an external proof to decide whether something is nonsense then I don't know how you manage to converse with other people. Someone who's not autistic always presupposes the other is making sense, then tries to understand that sense. And if you're into theory your threshold for giving up should be very high. That's how people can read the writings of their enemies, understand their ideology, and then attack it.>>4726
You can't read for shit if you can't understand why he switches the words in those dumb tweets. He uses the notion of "truth" in the first instance because he's talking about facts. In the second instance he's responding to anon's question about meaning, so he uses the notion of "meaning". And it's clear he's trying to piss off the same idiots in the second instance. Haz is obnoxious but you're just retarded.
your humorless response sucked my happyness away. I'm going to sleep now.>>4725
"there is no idle, self-subsisting, and air-tight guarantee of truth"
He's saying that there is no stand alone and static objective knowledge. Haz is criticizing science/logical positivist bros that think that we know "objective static truth" that can be ascertained with empirical evidence. Marx argues against the same here:>The main defect of all hitherto-existing materialism — that of Feuerbach included — is that the Object [as in Object in the Subject-Object], actuality, sensuousness (sensory experience), are conceived only in the form of the object [actual material objects], or of contemplation [contemplation of objects], but not as human sensuous [aka sensory] activity, practice [Praxis], not subjectively.
And> Feuerbach speaks in particular of the perception of natural science; he mentions secrets which are disclosed only to the eye of the physicist and chemist; but where would natural science be without industry and commerce?
These "secrets" are the "facts" that are demanded. Marx is saying that the sensous activity is part of the activity of revolutionizing thought and technology.
I'm really tired, but as you can see, many of the words are similar and the message is in the same vein.
"Truth is rather forever suspended in the work and the process that give rise to its very enunciation. Truth is the conclusion, not the premise of living reality".
Here's marx:>Feuerbach wants sensuous objects [phenomenal objects], differentiated from thought-objects, but he does not conceive human activity itself as objective activity. In "The Essence of Christianity", he therefore regards the theoretical attitude as the only genuinely human attitude, while practice [Praxis] is conceived and defined only in its dirty-Jewish form of appearance ["the down and dirty form of appearence"]. Hence he does not grasp the significance of ‘revolutionary’, of ‘practical-critical’, activity.>The coincidence of the changing of circumstances and of human activity or self-change can be conceived and rationally understood only as revolutionary practice.
Does Infrared have any texts or transcripts which could make it easier to follow what's said because the livestreams don't lend themselves to perusal.
>>4730>He's saying that there is no stand alone and static objective knowledge. Haz is criticizing science/logical positivist bros that think that we know "objective static truth" that can be ascertained with empirical evidence.
This is nothing new. He's not adding anything to the debate, he's just repeating old arguments in a new way. That's all i wanted someone to say. Then that begs the obvious question, why should we listen to Haz when we can just go to the original arguments, since they were written down and can be accessed whenever (a concept that infrared fails to grasp).
If Infrared's schtick is reviving old debates with new terminology for the youtube gamer crowd, that's fine, have at it. But the hazbots in the thread have been defending them as scholars (law student, spent decades learning theory, etc.) and synthesisers of new theory. So that's why I haven't been attacking the content of the arguments, but their form.
>>4732>he's just repeating old arguments in a new way
Old arguments that are still relevant?
>This shitty thread is the only active one
I fuckin hate you people
>>4732>This is nothing new.
Then why did you make me type that out…
I was responding to the question saying he was talking out of his ass, and that he was Jordan Peterson or something. I said it was just a rehash of Marx's argument. I got called out, so I responded with relevant passages comparing the content.
You're playing a disingenuous game here. Haz was responding to his haters, pointing out their mistakes by saying "yo, your shit's fucked because muh facts is retarded".
Then it was said "oh, he's just inventing stuff now"
To which I responded "no, he's just saying marxist stuff, specifically from marx"
To which it was responded "muh pseud, you're bluffing, you don't know what you're talking about"
Then I responded "here are some relevant passages".
Then (You) responded: "no actually haz can't argue with marxism because that's nothing new".
Clearly this same old tired stuff needs to be repeated if anglo "marxists" still refuse to get it. From what I've seen Infrared didn't want to take this path, but people were calling them schizos, so here we are.
And they're right in bringing up Heidegger because the main project of Heidegger is an attack on this autism.
It's just Sage and his 20 butt budies on his discord server raiding this thread. Don't expect consistency from them.
I'm still left wondering where Heidegger fits into this, since many of the takes I've seen Haz say are just standard marxism.
>>4733>Old arguments that are still relevant?
Against whom? Who is making these positivist claims, against which Haz has to argue? This is how academic argumentation works.>someone makes a claim<if you disagree, you write their argument in a way that shows you understand it<then you argue against it
Marx didn't just start writing, he started off with a critique of political economy. You can't just write arguments like an old man screaming at the sky.>>4735
You're right, I moved the goalpost. Yes, you explained it. What they wrote though is convoluted and one must know what they're trying to say to understand.
I actually agree with their overall
argument, I don't like the way they make it. This bit "Truth is the conclusion, not the premise of living reality" is still stupid and it reeks of 2deep4me, it isn't saying anything.
But Heidegger is just a stepping stone, and to stay with Heidegger for too long would be a mistake, since he's just the imprint, the shadow, the imitation, the Luigi to the Super-Mario of my thought, that is: Hitler. You see, only by fusing Lacan with Hitler can you be a ready Marxist in the 21st century.
Give me money on Patreon, so my team can hire professional memers to spread the news to children in various gaming communities.
Heidegger is useful because he very succinctly discusses these issues, especially in the first division of Being and Time. When Haz clumsily talks about "feelings" or whatever, he probably has Heidegger's notion of "attunement" or "mood" (Stimmung) in mind. Heidegger's point is that we're always already in the world, there's already meaning, we already care about things, and there's no escaping that. Subjects, objects, reality… these are secondary and require a kind of forgetting or abstracting away, which is also necessarily incomplete. Heidegger's beef with past Western philosophy (like Descartes) is that it treats these secondary abstractions as fundamental.https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/heidegger/#Div1
>>4740>Heidegger = Hitler
I had a Jewish philosophy professor who translated Heidegger’s Black Notebooks into our native language (so was perfectly aware of his nazi shit) while still teaching Heidegger because he knew he was indispensable for modern thought.
Are you anti-deutsch, or a radlib antifa by chance? Because sure as hell that's the intellectual level you operate on.
I guess Haz's point in considering Heidegger is that socialism is already an objective reality and we need to embrace it?
The fact that you are not self-aware enough to notice that you haven't made a critique of Haz's statement but simply gave up on trying to understand it is very funny.
You are so eager to denigrate who you perceive to be an opponent that you mistake clear satire for sincerity. I wonder which is the corresponding "intellectual level" to this kind of behavior.
I don't think Heidegger has much to do with this "we live in socialism" thing, I think that's just straight up Marx.
I don't think he mistook anything. Clearly your satire has a point, otherwise you wouldn't post it here.
I literally said I understood it and that I agree with it, just don't see the point of saying something that has already been said, just in a convoluted way. But you know what? I'm just chatting shit, I'll never watch the stream because I can't afford to spend a day watching a guy browse the Internet. If they release some written works, I'll read them.
Marx said we live in socialism?
Marx never really defined socialism and only gestured at what he thought communism meant, and honestly it doesn’t matter if we “live in socialism” or not. I think I get the gist of what that guy Haz might mean, even if I’m not totally familiar with his shit. He probably means that corporations have changed the way we relate to capital, so that capital has become instantiated in these big public institutions that transcend traditional capital ownership. They’re literally “public”, even within capitalist frameworks their considered to be public entities that are not quite owned by individuals, but merely pay interest to individuals for their capital. Shareholders don’t truly own the company, they hold a financial asset that entitles them to distributions at the discretion of the board, and for the most part investors don’t control the board. A 5% stake in a company is considered significant by the SEC, most shareholders are very small and when they aren’t they’re just other financial institutions. Bezos only owns ~10% of Amazon or so.
Which is to say that we live in a partially public capitalism, one that actually socialized a lot of property but “socialized” merely means that the property is a kind of engine of value production that is not privately owned. You can buy seats on the engine, and it’ll give you some money for your investment, but it basically has a legal obligation to work in your interest, and the regulator can actually determine if the corporation’s managers are fulfilling their obligation.
You realize Marx is dead, right?
Also based >>4709
there is so much to read. meanwhile, my org is reading babby shit and history of socialism.
History of socialism is more important than anything else
I'm more fowards thinking. I dream of a world where we can switch to renewable resources, such as your stupidity.
don't backtrack your satire's criticism, coward.
he isn't backtracking, but btfoing the other guy. can't you read?
that’s why they have short videos
your opinion has been noted
Oops, yep. quoted the wrong post.>>4759
they have also stated that they have essays already written that they plan on releasing when they have a more stable following.
This is getting even funnier because you are now claiming to understand a sentence that you regard as meaningless.
ITT: pseuds on /leftypol/ who've never given more than a cursory glance at theory are impressed by a wannabe eceleb's first cursory glance at theory. If this isn't emblematic of why the western left is in the precarious position it finds itself then we are doomed to repeat this shit until the bourgeois turns the earth into a cinder
This is textbook gaslighting lol.
>>4766>You have to engage in academic debates with retards to prove they're retards
Anon, you deserve a higher barrier than this
>>4767>to prove they're retards
Where did you prove anything?
what do you disagree with them?
They are not retards though, multiple anons from this site went on their stream and ""debated"" or rather laid out their disagreements. All these dialogues ended up being fruitful and only highlighted a difference in perspective, they have a solid theoretical foundation.
Honestly I feel like you distancing yourself from them by calling them retards on an anonymous imageboard is just your way of feeling good about yourself and give you some kind of feeling of superiority, which honestly is kinda sad.
They're not retards at all, Haz just chimps out when he visits /leftypol/, which is frankly an understandable reaction.
Real talk: I haven't watched their stream nor bothered to catalog my misgivings in the last few threads because it just hasn't been that important to me. Just going off this current thread, I find the assertion that "strikes aren't direct action" is such an unfathomably dumb opinion to warrant outright out of hand dismissal. You don't have to believe me but I've been in strikes that cost multi billion organizations billions of dollars, and I've been on committees that worked with reformist democrats/republicans that have demonstrably improved the material conditions of workers and especially people trapped in the industrial prison complex through literacy and trade training programs, not to mention a successful non discrimination of felons campaign. As such, my threshold for which randos on the internet I should give a fuck about and which opinions I think are actually in fact good is pretty high. There hasn't been any single indication in the last five days of threads about these streamers to pique my interest enough for them to get more out of me than dismissive shitposts
>>4772>haven't watched their stream nor bothered to catalog my misgivings
Okay, maybe what he meant by "strikes are not direct action" mean something different than what you expect? He never said strikes are useless. You shouldn't try to double down on the fact that you never even actually see them express their own words just based on your own predilections. You should know that a good amount of stuff you hear about them on leftypol are distorted by both retards like Sage who just want attention or fans don't encapsulate their messages effectively. The sheer fact that Infrared has tore a hole through leftypol is maybe a sign that you should be open-minded and check them out. Give people the benefit of the doubt.
I think their reasoning for saying that strikes aren't direct action is because of how they define direct action more specifically 'direct'.
They actually engage with people who disagree with them, you could probably get them to respond this by posting a youtube comment, tweet, or whatever.
Haz clearly said that strikes are good
his definition of direct action just excludes strikes and as a continental anarchist I have to say that my defibition of direct action never included strikes so idk
haz wouldn't be popular on this site if you blind haters didn't keep embarrassing yourselves.
>a handful of shills and a thread
there has been three threads and this one alone has nearly 600 replies how many people do you think there are on """leftypol"""
3 threads that reached bump limit mind you also before that /IG/ went to shit when they first found this board. They've grown atleast a 100+ subscribers by just streaming and reading /leftypol/ posts, it seems like the people here do find them engaging or entertaining at the least.
What school of leftism do you guys subscribe to that suggests workers collectively withholding their labor doesn't meet the threshold for direct action?
I don't get what the fuck is going on here. It's like 60% anti-marxism, 30% incomprehensible philosophy, and 10% regurgitated basic marxism but redefined really poorly.
These people are screaming that we're being dogmatic and close minded, but you can't expect to come in, be a bunch of really aggressive contrarian assholes, and expect us to take you seriously in the slightest.
>threshold for direct action
Anglo, there's the problem. You are still operating with the paradigm of direct action. The whole point is that direct action as a concept is pretty wrong to be begin with. Haz didn't say strikes aren't direct action because it doesn't meet a ""threshold"", like as if we should care about an imaginary quantitative measure for directness. It's just not direct, doesn't mean it's any more or less useless.
>>4784>more "words don't mean nuffin"
is this all you retards have
that's not anything related to what I fucking said what is wrong with people on this site caricaturizing opposing views before they even know what others are saying
in fact, it's NEVER about "words mean nuffin" but actually the OPPOSITE, words actually meaning something concrete rather than an abstract descriptor. Is utilizing your brain to think too tiresome for you or something?
Fuck off radlib. You do not know what gaslighting is. Don’t throw around and degrade terms you dont understand. Gaslighting is serious long term abuse not when you are wrong about a streamer being cool Jesus Christ.
We found them and we asked them to browse, not the other way around. Has detested this place because of the retarded posts. Can't people who like infrared's shit just be left to enjoy one nice streamer for once? You have vaush or hasan or whomever. Give this a week or two and it will die down. Imagine gatekeeping fun, like seriously.
This turned into a rant that you didn't deserve. Sorry. >>4787
Stop gaslighting your shit opinions, sage.
>>4777>bunkerchanite being an idiot
At this point, bunkerchan is actively breeding counter revolutionary retards. Although, given the amount of bunkrchanites left, it is either dollars, bexgina, or one of the million bots that spam CP there.
Infrared is decently based, but they shouldn't focus too much on the moronic drama here because it derails their other good points that they could instead discuss.
This place isn't so good for actual theory discussion and will waste time.
Also this is a reminder the collective has more than one person in it, so the Haz blame is quite unwarranted.
>>4773>You shouldn't try to double down on the fact that you never even actually see them express their own words just based on your own predilections.
if there was only a way to make words permanent and shareable…
>>4793>Can you summarize its arguments, or at least a particular argument? I'm a bit busy to watch a half-hour video.
Ismail btfo'd the hazbots lol
Quote from there:>Direct action here refers to action on the shop floor using the power of workers in their position as the life-blood of social production. This includes strikes…
Esperanto Wikipedia also mentions strikes as an example of direct action (Ekzemploj de neviolenta rekta ago (ankaŭ konata kiel neperforta rezisto aŭ ĝentila rezisto) povas inkludi sidstrikojn, strikojn…), as does Italian Wikipedia (scioperi).
I think it's pretty cowardly of Haz to not even release excerpts of his writings with the argument that "I know what you guys are going to do with it". What kind of argument is that, do other writers not face the same scrutiny? Is Haz some sacred cow going to deliver us the book of revelations that can not be published unless it's backed up by an army of simps in the four digits to defend it against detractors?
In the end, writing down your thoughts in a coherent manner would be the best way to show it to your detractors, the fact that he doesn't do it despite his demeanour of him having "studied theory for a decade" with 15 other people shows that there is probably something wrong with it, but he restricts himself to a format where he can deflect by calling people cucks and pussies into a webcam.
>>4787>Gaslighting is serious long term abuse
You've been spamming Infrared threads and their livestream chats for like 4 days now with shit like "I bet you don't even have a gf." No, I'm not saying that this causes "trauma for Haz," or whatever, I'm just saying that you are actually attempting to gaslight but you're even bad at that. What a pathetic little creature you are.
The analytical dapper planter costume nerd guy Infrared was criticizing just got canceled and fired by the eternal Anglo publication for offending his editor.https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/02/how-the-media-cracks-down-on-critics-of-israel>>4793
Infrared, invite based Ismail onto the stream.
This mfer was like "Lenin isn't a true Socialis. He was autoritarian!!!"
What a retard. I don't feel sympathy for him one bit
They probably dunked on him because of his dissection of Žižek, right?
ngl he is strangely attractive
This post is interesting as it demonstrates language skills which as is known is impossible for the anglo. Dictionary definitions are however not relevant for serious discussions.>>4781>threshold for direct action
Is direct action your god?
It's not direct action as it goes beyond direct action not the other way around.
Even Chapos were dunking on him for reformism, but the uniform choice admittedly is quite cool
They are done browsing leftypol, they'll only respond to specific posts if someone from the chat asks them to.
This MF and Thought Slime are like the walking representations of what's wrong with modern "socialists".sandinistaSandinista
last chance to make a reddit post to have Infrared react to upcoming stream.
If you want to start some drama, now is your chance. https://www.reddit.com/r/ShowInfrared/
>>4801>Infrared, invite based Ismail onto the stream.<Can you summarize its arguments, or at least a particular argument? I'm a bit busy to watch a half-hour video.
Ismail confirmed anglo.
great! now that you have your own subreddit, you can fuck off to where you belong.
This article is wild.>“If Washington D.C. crumbled to the ground, the last thing that would remain is our support for Israel,”> if there was no Israel, the United States “would have to invent an Israel”
They can't keep getting away with it.>The subject line of Mulholland’s was “private and confidential.” I reprint it in full here
real gangsta shit
The guardian is really a disgusting gang.
How does it go beyond direct action
Based I Hope nathan goes away forever. One of the worst tumors not he so called American """left""". Im gonna email his website sponcers later.brocialismBrocialism
When's then next stream?
2 hours and 40 minutes left
because we know everything
infrared isn't just haz, there's 12 of them, they're in this thread
Maybe some of them have been, but they just mentioned when they would stream in a youtube comment.
All 12 too scared to name themselves and get mentally dominated by me, Sage. Kek
That is not a problem because you are kindly supplying the comedy for the both of us.
>>4825>All 12 too scared to name themselves and get mentally dominated by me, Sage. Kek
Why are tripfags so mental?
The appeal of chans has always been the anonyminity, the fact you are taking every argument for only itself and not the entity making the argument. fuck off both you and the haz infared faggot.
Did someone tweet him the reading group thread? >>/edu/4943https://leftypol.org/edu/res/4943.html
no, but someone should
1 minute in the stream and Sage posts 90% of chat comments.
HOW. PATHETIC. THIS. DUDE. IS.
lmao I cant wait for Haz to start shitting on him
No arguments from Haz at all i see, post screens of the whole thing my guy, people can judge
HAZ, HEAR ME, IT IS I, SAGE. I HEREBY LAY DOWN THE GAUNTLENT, COME DEBATE ME BRO, TEXT FORMAT, ME VERSUS YOU, THE SUBJECT: ARE STRIKES DIRECT ACTION? they are no I won't come on your stream, I have a life, you can post on here just fine, or any other text based medium of your choice, that provides anonymity b there, or be dominated mentally, again.
He said this so you first and now you cant stop repeating it. the phrase has triggered you so hardanarcho-capitalismAnarcho-Capitalism
No. kek. >>4836
simply stating the facts.
>>4837>be sage>work in a farmer's union in bumfuck scotland>living on haz's time>literally shit everything up for entire length of stream>6 hours>its now 3am, have work in 3 hours
it's doubtful you're anything but a limpwristed larper somewhere in CanadaanarchismAnarchism
>>4838>>living on haz's time
What does mean?anarcho-nihilismAnarcho-Nihilism
>>4839>living on haz's timezone**
still a retarded sentence but whateveranarchismAnarchism
he won't come debate me though, what a bitch. Utterly dominated, mentally and physically because Haz doesn't squat
bruh, just get in the zoom call if you are so confident
You've been invited to the zoom session like 45 times by now, you little coward. You don't even need to join the stream with your Gollum face, only your voice. But you are such a chicken you won't.
He is a bit slow to move on from trolls but remember they are just starting out.
GET IN THE ZOOM LOOOSERbrocialismBrocialism
its not going to happen. He could easily come here and post, he spends hours at a time reading the threads.
Then just shut up please.
You can come to their stream with audio-only, without image.
Every good story arc has a good payoff.
I'm enjoying this eceleb arc so far, and I'm really hoping it doesn't peter out.
give us a good finale pl0xanarchismAnarchism
just use your anime voice you stupid weeb
It's 2021. And you live in the UK where you don't get killed for being a leftist.
Grow some balls or kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP
my voice is regularly broadcast. So no. >>4852
If people recognise your voice its a dox kek. >>4851
get Haz to come here and debate me and I will humiliate him even more than I already have and it will be glorious. Neutral environment, all he has to do is make a tripcode. >>4854
No but I lose my job as a leftist.
meh anybody who has been paying attention knows the details, bottom line, I aint doxxing myself, and Haz could easily debate me here, in a text based format, point by point, source by source, nothing skimmed over, nothing left out, neutral enviroment where nobody loses anything (apart from Haz, losing the argument )
>browsing /pol/ on streams
>getting porn ads
high IQ move
Haz: "people on /pol/ like us better than on /leftypol/"https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/307665940
>>4857>Haz could easily debate me here, in a text based format, point by point, source by source, nothing skimmed over, nothing left out, neutral environment where nobody loses anything (apart from Haz, losing the argument )
No, they cannot. Because people like this are not interested in discourse, they are interested in getting there face on a screen.
why? I want get on with the lesson instead of debunk jewish conspiracies for the 100th time.
A lot of what Haz is saying is like "I'm the artist I don't have to explain my artwork lmao"
dude forget about the algorithm. Haz already said he doesn't want to use the algorithm to get popular and would rather grow organically like he did here.
yeah, fuck /pol/ they are too many for us to maintain hegemony.
you can grow organically on /pol/ too
Damn he's really bad at this, we're already 1 hour into the stream and he's still not talking about dialectics. The "disclaimer" will probably go on for another 10 minutes.
You have to be haz's #2
biggest fan then, because he welcomes /pol/ trolls.
This is, as a wrestler would say, a work.
English is just old German mixed with Latin and France and bit of Danish, what's he talking about.
>>4867>learning from gamers
Read a book you pseud>>4872>Psued yank infared doesn't understand internets.
just do it when it's not an educational stream like it was last time.
The English language shit is something where Haz is very on point though. It's been a long time since I read a dialectical approach to language, the last one I remember was Stalin.ddrDDR
The platform operates in a specific way. "Organic" spreading is a joke and only going to hinder the propagation of his ideas.
Kiam vi lernos esperanton leftypol?>>4883
They do not believe this 'organic' meme. I do not believe nobody, not even the american can be this stupid.
Goddamn, it's like attending a university lecture except a 100 times more boring.syndicalismSyndicalism
Debate me bro, pussy
the only pussy here is you, who is to much of a coward to come on on a debate stream merely with his voice, lmao
Then he couldn't spam or pretend to be multiple people.
gentleginjeet about to come on
Ginjeet, bro, don't show your real name in Zoom…
I have a real life, no dox. Debate me, strikes are direct action, objective material reality.
Feel free to make an argument any time
>>4895>i dont want to show my face i have a life
a life doing what, attention seeking with a tripcode on an anonymous imageboard? making up stories about how much of a working class hero you are? nice life you have there alcoholic.anarcho-capitalismAnarcho-Capitalism
>>4895>I have a life
He insists for the fifth evening in a row, hanging out on /leftypol/ all day and harassing some streamer
This discussion is unbelievably boring and I don't understand how your mind has degenerated to this point.
>goes through /pol/ thread
>half of it is just /leftypol/ anons trying to get /pol/ to engage
>the other half just wines about trannies and Jews
<d00d, these people like me more than /lefypol/!
It is a perceptual problem (and maybe a spam problem), if you engage you are more likely to see negative comments.
His unibrow is too powerful, I must back downanarchismAnarchism
Kneel of course! Only someone with incredible powers could physically touch a tulpa!spurdoSpurdo
>drinking wine out of the bottle
lmao sage was larping on a burner account, actually a schizo
Sage is just being bullied now
what the fuck? where can i see this?
FILTHY INSURRECTIONIST IS SAGE
sage, c'mon you can still redeem yourself. Just ask if you can join Zoom and conduct yourself as a normal person.
Maybe they have a fucking spine and refuse to use spyware?
There's plenty of fully functional alternatives to Zoom, including Jisti Meet, Jami, and XMPP. It's fucking embarrassing to see lefty groups using corporate spyware when other options exist.
>>4914>not an argument
read hegel. you are a loser who sells his info to his ISP/CIA agent
This guy is a retard
The Chinese guy? Why?
LMAO you mean cyber-Hegel? You know, that you can use the internet, without selling your personal data? Do you even know Snowden?
>>4920>He's a braindead Sakaiist who believes, that Taiwan (his home country) is a "white supremacist" society :D
Is he referring to America though? He lived/lives there. Also, Taiwan is a supremacist society, at the least the fucking Hocklo Chauvinist DDP. There is a reason Taiwanese aboriginals vote KMT.
>>4921>He lived/lives there
He lives in the US?? I've thought that he lives in Taiwan! What is he doing in the US, why doesn't he go back to China? What a cuck!
>>4922>go back to China
/pol/ tier take
I saw him on Luna Oi!'s stream, and he still speaks English with a heavy accent, seems like he moved there recently. Also, Taiwan may be China but not the PRC. What's the difference between burgerland and one of its proxies?
>>4923>/pol/ tier take
It isn't. If I would move to a foreign country, then because I expect something better than my home country. I wouldn't go to the US, just to feel shit and alienated. Just stay in China, if you think China is better.
get on our chad level, glass cuck
>>4924>Also, Taiwan may be China but not the PRC. What's the difference between burgerland and one of its proxies?
Dengoids can never make a decision about Taiwan: Taiwan is part of China, but at the same time it's a US proxy.
>>4928>Not choosing the superior bottle of glass
Why does this dumb-ass thread have 700+ posts? Did leftypol turn into bunkershit?
Because people like you keep coming back to seethe.
It's my first post in this thread. It seems like you guys care more about streamers than discussing substantial stuff
Why should those two be mutually exclusive?
I don't know. I just wish other threads got more action, but every time there is internet drama, people flock to it instead.
It is the guys watchers. Uneducated americans+twitch makes it so easier to form personality cult these days.
Ginjeet brought up a lot of interesting points, explained dialectical synthesis through example and drank and smoked on stream. Thank you Gentleginjeet you were sick.
Let me TLDR why sage thinks strikes are direct action: sage runs a "tenant union", so he basically knocks on doors and says "fuck the landlord lets not pay rent". That's his fucking union lmao. First of all good for you, you have reached an adam smith ricardo level of consciousness. But not just that, its also basic self-interest. but for Marxists, unions mean a different thing. for us fucking Marxists, unlike sage, we grab the neck of capital and strangle it at the point of production. But sage's labor union shit "No matter how small and local we do our part" anglo individualist meme feel like they are work. its not radical resistance. it doesn't touch basic social ontology. rent strikes wont achieve anything
Because these guys aren't complete morons and actually based, and since we (leftypol) found them early, we are basically dialecticaly influencing the direction of their channel. We are shaping them up to defeat breadtube.
>>4937>for us fucking Marxists, unlike sage, we grab the neck of capital and strangle it at the point of production.
Imaging "grabbing the neck of capital" through live ranting on Youtube lol
Why does the arbitrary classification of something as "direct action" matter? Is this what you guys have been posting 700 posts about?
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