Dmitri back with new commentary on war
Dmitri Trenin
@DmitriTrenin
Carnegie Moscow Center’s Director.
>Implications of what’s happening in #Ukraine will be wide-ranging.End of post-Soviet era for RUS.Lost lands to be gathered again.RUS world to take form of geopolitical unit. At home:Conservatism to prevail,vestiges of liberalism/globalism to be purged.Much more reliance on China.https://twitter.com/DmitriTrenin/status/1497478604694958086?s=20&t=58WyEtKkYOTQy7IjcfZA7whttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Trenin>>530148Serbs bombed Kosovo civs
Ukrops shelled Donbass civs for 8 years
In fact there's a documentary about it on RT America right now.
>>530167Why didn't these tough guys join the army? They sure can bully one unarmed captive.
Meanwhile the boys who surrendered on Snake Island are getting snacks and water.
>>530166The word does directly invoke the holocaust
>>530164He goes on:
>In fact it's kind of striking; right at the same time the Western intellectuals were praising themselves for their magnificent humanitarianism, much worse atrocities were going on right across the border, in Turkey. That's inside NATO, not at the borders of NATO… "how can we allow this on the borders of NATO,"… but how about inside NATO where Turkey was carrying, had driven probably several million Kurds out of their homes, destroyed about 3500 villages laid waste the whole place, every conceivable form of torture and massacre you can imagine, killed nobody knows how many people, we don't count our victims, tens of thousands of people, how they were able to do that? The reason is because they were getting 80% of their arms from Clinton and as the atrocities increased, the arms flow increased. In fact in one single year, 1997, Clinton sent more arms to Turkey than the entire Cold War period combined! Up until the counter-insurgency.
>DM: Let me just read something that you said in an interview around the time of the bombing. You said that “the term “genocide” as applied to Kosovo is an insult to the victims of Hitler. In fact, it’s revisionist to an extreme.” What did you mean by that?
>NC: First of all let me just fix the timing. The things I’ve been quoting are from the late nineties.
>DM: Before Kosovo.
>NC: Yeah. Now, they needed some event to justify this massive self-adulation, OK? Along came Kosovo fortunately and so now they had to stop genocide. What was the genocide in Kosovo? We know from the Western documentation what it was. In the year prior to the bombing, according to Western sources about two thousand people were killed, the killings were distributed, a lot of them were coming in fact according to British government, which was the most hawkish element of the Alliance, up until January 1999 a majority of killings came from the KLA guerillas who were coming in as they said, you know, to try to incite a harsh Serbian response, which they got, in order to appeal to Western humanitarians to bomb. We know from the Western records that nothing changed between January and March, in fact up until March 20 they indicate nothing. March 20th they indicate an increase in KLA attacks. But, it was ugly but by international standards it was almost invisible unfortunately and it was very distributed. If the British are correct, the majority was coming from the KLA guerillas.
>DM: And as it later turned out the KLA was also receiving financial and military support.
>NC: They were being supported by CIA in those months. And to call that genocide, is really to insult the victims of the holocaust, you know, if that’s genocide than the whole world is covered with genocide.https://chomsky.info/20060425/>>530170This is what happened in the Nagorno war two years ago. Azerbaijannies didn't release any casualty number until afterward.
There were also a ton more videos of casualties, soldiers getting shelled, drone footage of tanks getting ATGMed and just evidence in general.
Of course, the MSM was ignoring it instead of manufcaturing a massive atrocity panic like now.
>>530186Kek they're waiting for the fuel trucks to move up.
>>530184He definitely glows.
>just happens to be driving along filming in his nice car>gets all friendly with the soldiers, what's up bros, asks them what's up, where they headedFaggot should be shot as a spy
>>530197>tfw you have a comedian running the armed forces the jokes
literally write themselves
>>530193He's fighting for optics and PR
Think of the Nielsen ratings!
>>530215>>530216The duality of man
They might both be propaganda but the westoid one is more cringe
>>530219I told you bro
I warned you fam
Biden orders $600mn in aid to UkraineThe package would include $350mn in military assistance
https://www.rt.com/russia/550679-biden-600mn-aid-ukraine/keep fighting, ukrain bros
we love the spectacle here in the west, we need that sweet anti-russia propaganda material
>>530224He's asked about his name, some other stuff (idk maybe his unit?" and then at last his address.
However my Russian is super rudimentary, so I understand maybe 15% lel.
>>530227I dare them to kick russia out of swiff so dedolarization will rise
May the patrolman dollar be the future
>>530228Straight up disinfo account.
How do you guys fall for this type of shit and buy it
You say you are aware of all propaganda then believe this
>>530236Meanwhile in Kiev
The Russians are being surprisingly merciful and gentlr considering what the Kievan regime has been doing to the Donetsk region over the last 8 years
>>530178whats the point of critically supporting Russia?
whats the benefit or use?
>>530287>VDV>Lvovi can make up fake slav words too, you know…
bzvd
vdrnke
zmrlzina
>>530295*has power
>>530286incelicide
>>530293Cultural genocide is the stupidest phrase, I've heard
I'm committing territorial genocide right now of the poop from my guts
>>530264Aaaaaa look at their old-man shoes
These are the men cucking the greatest geopolitical alliance to ever exist on the face of the earth
>>5303441) russians are a minority in the Donbas
2) it has not been non-stop and you know this
>>530235Germany and Italy have been convinced according to latest news.
Only Hungary remains opposed rn.
>>530338you are the (((saboteur)))
no, you are the (((saboteur)))
>>530338>Scientists Baffled By Country's Incredible Ability To Fuck Up Every Time>constant friendly fire>civilian casualtiesHave the Russians actually did
anything bad.
>>530349>1) russians are a minority in the DonbasFake.
<Modern Donbas is a predominately Russophone region. According to the 2001 census, Russian is the main language of 74.9% of residents in Donetsk Oblast and 68.8% in Luhansk Oblast.There's no different ukrainian and russian "ethnicities" only two languages. What's written on your ID literally doesn't matter. Like 95% voted to leave Ukraine
>2) it has not been non-stop and you know thisOkay, they had hiatuses for some weeks during 8 years.
>>530385I'm sorry but they are not correct in this.
I haven't seen germany leaders agree on swift yetz just rumors
Germany and Hungary remain hold outs still
>>530356Do it fucking do it and watch as de dolarization happens
Fucking do it
>>530187if they had been willing to negotiate about that a month ago instead of scoffing and declaring any talk of it a "non-starter", this war might have been avoided, and it would be called "diplomacy".
But no, these fuckers led Ukraine off a cliff so they could score points on Russia.
>>530393Hungary condemned what Russia has done
Hungary relationship with china is closer i believe than their relationship is with Russia
+ They are a NATO country at end of day. Orban rocks the boat but he may fall in line at end. I'm sure Putin or Russians are in his ear tho hold him down so he doesn't agree.
https://hungarytoday.hu/orban-russia-attack-condems-aggression/I also see this from a day ago
>Orban Requests Increase In Russian Gas Imports During Meeting With Putinhttps://www.rferl.org/amp/hungary-orban-putin-russia-gas/31681502.html >>530428The kke it's literally the biggest communis party of Europe.
Cope.
>>530430Why would a russian simp for russian intervention?
This is about putin sticking it up to nato. Only reason for simping. It's not even critical support it's just a based thing to do
>>530377>>530379this shit is giving me brain damage bruh
all these leftists suddenly becoming blood thirsty war hawks acting as if this wasn't the fault of the USA to fucking begin with
and they
never criticize USA's expansionism but the moment Russia chimps out they're all over that shit
>>530428KKE is a great party with good understanding of geopolitics and they are not small
You are a retard
>>530438>t.germans are sticking it up the entente>>530441I am indeed irritated because I am taking this position seriously. So was anon ostensibly which I pointed out so he could not slink away into "irony" he is wrong plain and simple.
>>530446Read combat liberlalism by mao and the part where he calls ad hominem attacks a form of liberal, retard.
>>530474fuck material interests
embrace humanism
return to monke
>>530484they are building a pipeline to refuel themselves
>>530474proles should drop humanism in favor of collective material interest
>>530411>>530187>>530482Well Washington was going no no no we can't kick Russia out of swift even though we really want to because our European allies are opposed
Now that the euros are coming aboard
probably because it'll free them from US dollar hegemony the burgers blink
>>530436>>my personal prole interest< This is not how class politics work. It might be in your own personal prole interest to break a strike, but it's not your class interest.
You're actually a liberal, because you're putting your personal interest first, disguising under class politics because you're a prole - in fact, this is exactly identity politics.
>>530559Dumb take. Reddit supported palestine like crazy and shitted all over Palestine
As did all these social media people. It's not racial. This conflict impacts many economies
>>530574Shitted all over Israel*
I need sleep
>>530590I made a typo. Let me rewrite
Reddit and twitter people enormously supported palestine in their conflict against Israel
This isn't racial
>>530600So the list so far:
>draft>conscription of all males in the 18-60 years range>letting out criminals and arming themwhat's next? Orphans from orphanages? Babushkas?
>>530621They are about the lose their whole nation, it's desperate times.
It's easy to judge and scoff at it but they are severely overpowered and no Europe countries are going to come help with soldiers
>>530633They are.
What Russia says doesn't mean shit, they will be taking the capital within the next 12-24 hours.
I guarantee you were one of those saying nothing is going to happen and you play catch up the whole way denying the next increase in conflict every time
>>530647I hope he has the balls to purge them.
Critical support for Emperor Putlertine
>>530600This really is blackpilled in thinking that might makes right
Like russia launched the war, but they are also winning and ukraine trying to fight back in these ways
Only makes me feel them as the guilty party because they're not surrendering peacefully and trying to minimize the bloodshed
Whatever is at stake can't be more than the cost of human life
>>530679ok, so the list so far:
>draft>conscription of all males in the 18-60 years range>forced conscription of people fleeing a warzone>letting out criminals and arming themcorrect?
>>530625>They are about the lose their whole nationAnd who gives a shit? Worthless brainwashing of the working class to make them think some flag and a line in the sand matters
Russia, Ukraine
The common man will continue to get exploited while the rich will enjoy when this is all over
>>530219Based take. Too late though. Should've read Lenin.
>>530224Fuck…. they're little kids. Incredibly sad. Remember this is 100% NATOs fault.
>>530726The west also felt the same regarding Shanghai
Makes ya think
>>530749Second sino japanese war
Chiang decided lol I'm gonna fight in Shanghai and that's gonna peer pressure the warlords to help and the west to support
And while the warlords did kinda unite under chiang the west.
The west got emotional and we gotta help china since the Japanese are committing war crimes(which they were) and then they proceeded to do basically nothing
>>530757American troops also had a nickname for him: General cash my check
And now America is showering aid on the Ukrainian government like tossing bread to pigeons.
>>530174The best outcome at this point, as it has been for the past 8 years, is for Ukraine to play ball with Russia and implement the accords. Ukraine is fighting a pointless battle, arming civilians, etc. Russia needs to overtake Ukraine as quickly as possible to avoid as much deaths as possible. There's no way Russia is leaving soon. What don't you get? Ukraine needs to surrender. It fucked up for 8 years, now its finding out. It's absolutely horrible but they keep fucking up and even more people will die. This is NATOs fault, making Ukraine fight this pointless battle.
What don't you get, please explain.
>>530776They are even bombing their own capital
>>530769 what are you talking about?
>>530778You are not giving any proof at all just typing your own made up sentence
Back up your claim rt shill
>>530783Nothing in video says what you said rt shill
Provide your evidence. All you did was post a video then make your random claim in a sentence
>>530764There simply is no answer.
The universe does not set itself up to make answers for people. Sometimes situations are more complex and difficult than any person in a situation can manage.
>>530789Back up your claim. Post evidence
Typing shit up means nothing.
>>530793You are the one who can't back up what you are saying shill.
Posting a random video then giving it your own title that now becomes fact isn't evidence
>>530662>This really is blackpilled in thinking that might makes right
>Like russia launched the war, but they are also winning and ukraine trying to fight back in these ways
>Only makes me feel them as the guilty party because they're not surrendering peacefully and trying to minimize the bloodshed
>Whatever is at stake can't be more than the cost of human life>>530683>This. You surrender before making your civilians fight, especially when Russia isn't even asking for THAT much.Exactly. The Ukraine government should be skinned alive. This is absolutely disgusting. Who fucking CARES about muh country. Russia doesn't even want to absorb its territories, just accept modest UN approved, previously Ukraine approved, agreements. Just fucking do it, what the fuck.
A coup is the most valiant and patriotic thing any Ukraine civilian can do. Of course, I don't demand it of them, I wish they took the arms and used them to escape Ukraine safely. I demand it of the military.
>>530812This is nothing. A random infographic of a truck
This may work on twitter people, not here. Provide evidence for your claims of truck in video
>>530825You haven't done anything, you posted a random infographic.
This doesn't work here.
>>530840I don't support Ukraine at all. I asking you to back up what you post
Posting a random video then writing up your own title of it isn't evidence. This isn't a difficult ask
>>530781>>530776i am not even the anon you were responding to, and i was able to dig this up
>>530817>>530817https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tts-hyYruyEhere is the original ukrainian propaganda video, go look into comments and translate. you will find people informing uploader of the ukrainian license plates and then ukrops responding to them with death threats
the source for the text is somewhere in this thread i believe:
https://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=2464i was able to figure all this out on my own; why aren't you?
>>530855This is all I wanted just to have evidence of it. Thank you!
Instead the guy just argued in circles over it
>>530860Zelenski: it means you are a low level Pole. You aren't special and you are slave nation.
Zelensky: it means you are a mid-tier Russian. You are above the Pole on the civilizational ladder but you are not royalty.
Zelenskyy: you are royal Ukranian master race. For you onlyy the skyy is the lymitte.
Hypothetical übermensch not yet found in nature: Zyylyynskyyy
>>530893I was actually looking for this link I wanted to read and lost. I found it with the search function. It was a lucky find.
https://eventsinukraine.substack.com/p/the-end-of-the-war-or-a-new-escalation?utm_source=urlHaven't read it though.
I was also looking for this one a few threads back and someone shared it. It's a quick read. Interesting, starts out not so good, gets better later.
https://nonzero.substack.com/p/why-biden-didnt-negotiate-seriously?utm_source=url >>530898the e-boys have entered the invasion
>>530907gays are allowed in ruskie military? how do they not get bullied or bet up
>>530907>danya_XXXXXXLWell, with that bulge I have to believe it. God Russian male youth is so cute. Shame they age like milk.
>>530908>He says that ministers he has talked to say “you Ukrainians have only a few hours left. There is no point in helping you now”.That is a baffling response. Ukraine must lay down its arms. German foreign ministers being cold as fuck, but it's the most humane option.
>>5309620_0
are we really different from gay people? flamboyant straight men are real?
The North Atlantic Treaty Organization, commonly known by its acronym “NATO,” has been in existence for nearly three-quarters of a century. Embracing the notion that day-to-day security is key, NATO’s stated purpose is “to guarantee the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.”
Putin enjoyed the Trump years because the puppet he installed in the White House didn’t seem to like NATO any more than he did. At the 2017 summit in Brussels, Donald Trump infamously refused to express a firm commitment to the Article 5 principle of mutual defense. For good measure, Trump also shoved Dusko Marković in a rush to jump to the front for pictures. It’s no coincidence that Marković happened to be the Prime Minister of Montenegro, NATO’s brand-new member.
Now that President Joe Biden is in office, Trump is no longer able to help Putin destabilize NATO. In addition, not only is NATO standing strong in solidarity against Putin’s unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, but Putin’s own actions are undermining his failing anti-NATO campaign.
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/putin-is-operating-without-his-puppet/44161/>>530428<Tens of thousands of militantsDude KKE is the most based party in Europe.
Their only big problem is boomer tier leadership sadly.
>>531033honestly can't tell anymore
people said putin wouldn't do it
us shared their intel with china like idiots
ukraine president is staying in there for some bravado reason
clown world shit happening, i don't think anybody is being competent or sane right now
>>530708You got a reasonable position (Russia is a capitalist and wannabe imperialist nation) and then turned it into the most Reddit shit possible with that opening.
I know that we love bait here but since I know you're a reasonable anon let's keep the level high ITT.
>>531039True. But in this case the chances of a ww3 are slim.
Now if the china decides to invade taiwan using this perfect opportunity then we are totally fucked
>>530996Russia can turn Kiev and maybe all of Ukraine to rubble with everyone inside but that's what NATO wants. Russia wants regime change so that Ukraine can be a buffer between them and NATO, the US and the rest of NATO behind them see Ukraine and everyone in there as expendable nothings to grind against Russia.
Ukraine is basically just throwing bodies at a war they cannot win by drafting 300k reservists and
decreeing that no male 18-60 can leave the country as well as starting forced conscription.The NATOcucks are hoping for a PR win for US foreign policy, and aren't afraid of sacrificing every single Ukranian if serving their masters overseas demands it.
But since western media is mostly on NATOs control it's being reported as "le evil Russians being barbaric and warlike". So Russia can only get stalled so long before NATO gathers enough support to intervene with some pretext like "stopping the systematic extermination of Ukanians" or something along the lines.
>>531011Horrific event, with a deluge of information. Very important because it sets the stage for the new multipolar era. Paying attention because this affects every single human around the world.
I only wish western leftists had better takes on this and unequivocally placed blame on NATO.
>>531061Ukraine is not a third world country.
That's gonna turn into one with enough time and missiles? That's another thing.
>>531046>Russia can turn Kiev and maybe all of Ukraine to rubble with everyone inside but that's what NATO wants. How nice of them.
> Russia wants regime change Oh that's okay then.
>Ukraine is basically just throwing bodiesWhere have I heard this before?
>But since western media is mostly on NATOs control it's being reported as "le evil Russians being barbaric and warlike" One really has to pull mental gymnastics in order to make an invading force appear warlike!
>>531043Why do you think this would be the perfect opportunity
Also isn't Taiwan already theirs? Am I confusing it with HK
>>531050Totally agree.
This is a historic event of a tremendous importance. And the sole reason of the war is nato with its attempts to control ukraine.
>>531074> Bombing of socialist yugoslavia by fucking nato is based and prodemocratic.WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN
WHERE WAS TITO
>>531076I was jocking. It is not a perfect opportunity. Well, it is a perfect opportunity for a ww3 surely, but nothing more.
No, taiwan de-facto is not a part of china.
>>531059You're either ignorant of the facts that led to this, a supporter of Nazis, or a fed (and probably a Nazi too).
Which one is it?
>>531050> multipolar what does this mean, i hear you guys keep saying it
>because this affects every single human around the world. in what way does the rest of affect us
>>531048>I'm interested mainly in how propaganda and public opinion are intertwined trough internet. Probably the first war where everyone has a smartphone and state actors really competent at web propagandasame, the ghost of kyviv shit is a good example of this
internet would be really annoying is what i have gathered
>>530856>>530871A based comment and the true communist perspective
Fuck anglos
>>531102;_;
would nato have not bombed if they were not market socialists
i need to read up
>>531108>>531115Lol. Somehow i find myself standing on the same side with rightist again and again.
Maybe because they are at least not averting themselves from reality completely sometimes.
>>531132>>531134for once i wish for a hyper strong socialist military force to exist
we have to be the change we wish to see in this world
>>531138is multipolar the best option when there are only socialist states left?
i think so
>>531105>what does [multipolarity] mean<Multipolarity is a distribution of power in which more than two nation-states have nearly equal amounts of military, cultural, and economic influence. We've lived in a primarily unipolar world since the 60s.
Wikipedia is usually lib as fuck, but you can read more on the concept here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_(international_relations) It basically means "how many big players are there". It has reprecussions on what powers can do without consequences, who has claim to what, etc.
>>531069>Where have I heard this before?https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-24-22-intl/h_4309a4916d57670f85519210a07fb2c9[…]
>In a declaration signed late Thursday, Zelensky said that "in order to ensure the defense of the state, maintaining combat and mobilization readiness of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other military formations," a broad-based mobilization was ordered, including in the capital, Kyiv and all Ukraine's major cities.>The mobilization also instructed "the Security Service of Ukraine to take counterintelligence measures during the general mobilization."<It ordered the "conscription of conscripts, reservists for military service, their delivery to military units and institutions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" and other state security services.<At the same time, Ukraine has banned all-male citizens 18-60 years old from leaving the country, according to the State Border Guard Service.
>The statement said that following the introduction of martial law in Ukraine, a temporary restriction had been imposed. >"In particular, it is forbidden for men aged 18-60, Ukraine citizens, to leave the borders of Ukraine," the statement said. "This regulation will remain in effect for the period of the legal regime of martial law. We ask the citizens to take this information into consideration."Unfortunately the US(through their puppet government) is willing to sacrifice everyone there for transatlantic PR.
>>531162I would, especially if such a power would be an English or Latin languages speaking one.
(Italian French Spanish Portuguese)
>>531162bruh i already imagine to immigrate to china and theire not even at the full blown stage as USSR
no idea what the threads would be like tho,
>>531166True
>collapse of the USSR truly the greatest geopolitical disastertruest words ever spoken
>>531074>yugoslavia are dirty revisionists except when NATO is bombing them! i am a western leftist!kill yourself
The Serbian rump state wasn't Yugoslavia and wasn't socialist. Even the late SFRJ wasn't really Yugoslavia, Milosevic hijacked the federal government and its institutions and the vast majority of people didn't support him.
Here's part of Wikipedia's article about the """JNA""" operation against Vukovar.
>The JNA's lack of infantry support was due to a disastrously low level of mobilisation in the preceding months. Many reservists – who were drawn from all the Yugoslav republics, including Croatia – refused to report for duty, and many serving soldiers deserted rather than fight.[81] Serbia was never formally at war and no general mobilisation was carried out.[82] An estimated 150,000 Serbs went abroad to avoid conscription, and many others deserted or went into hiding.[83] Only 13 percent of conscripts reported for duty.[84] Another 40,000 staged rebellions in towns across Serbia; the Serbian newspaper Vreme commented in July 1991 that the situation was one of "total military disintegration".>Morale on the battlefield was poor. JNA commanders resorted to firing on their own positions to motivate their men to fight. When the commander of a JNA unit at Vukovar demanded to know who was willing to fight and who wanted to go home, the unit split in two. One conscript, unable to decide which side to take, shot himself on the spot.[86] A JNA officer who served at Vukovar later described how his men refused to obey orders on several occasions, "abandoning combat vehicles, discarding weapons, gathering on some flat ground, sitting and singing Give Peace a Chance by John Lennon." In late October, an entire infantry battalion from Novi Sad in Serbia abandoned an attack on Borovo Naselje and fled. Another group of reservists threw away their weapons and went back to Serbia on foot across a nearby bridge.[87] A tank driver, Vladimir Živković, drove his vehicle from the front line at Vukovar to the Yugoslav parliament in Belgrade, where he parked on the steps in front of the building. He was arrested and declared insane by the authorities. His treatment enraged his colleagues, who protested by taking over a local radio station at gunpoint and issuing a declaration that "we are not traitors, but we do not want to be aggressors." Unique IPs: 123