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File: 1618069330911.jpg (26.79 KB, 676x491, Putnam Studies.jpg)

 No.9054

I am writing this to address an absolutely gigantic blindspot of the Left, which I have seen Far-right groups,
Ethnonationalists,Nazbols and other assorted Fascists seize upon.This is the question of how diversity effects
trust in a society.

Since the Left has not addressed the issue, the right has utilized it convert many thousand's of people and bolster
their arguments, since they are free to say that ethnically homogenous societies have much more trust as compared to
Diverse societies and thus ethnonationalism is justified.The Far-right has also brow beaten Civic nationalists in this
field.

Now Let's see the evidence against the fact that diversity reduces social trust.

>The most Important study In this Issue In the Putnam one, let's see what it contains

Putnam (2007) is easily the most often cited paper to show that diversity negatively impacts communities. Putnam shows that participants from more diverse regions reported lower levels of social capital, the degree to which neighbors interact with and trust one another, even after controlling for individual and regional differences in social and economic variables.
>What is often ignored in second-hand accounts of this paper is that the multivariate effect, the impact of diversity after controlling for all these confounding variables, was statistically significant but minuscule. Local ethnic diversity independently accounted for less than 1% of the variation in trust.Before controlling for confounding variables, the relationship between an area’s level of trust and ethnic diversity looked strong and negative.
>Moreover, it wasn’t the strongest effect measured. At the individual level, the best predictors were, in order, a participant’s age, whether they owned a home, their level of education, and whether they were Black. The strongest regional predictors, in order, were census tract poverty rate, crime rate, ethnic diversity, and population density.
>Going from an area with zero diversity to an area with maximum diversity would be predicted to lower trust by .14 points on a 4 point scale. (Diversity has a minimum of .25) By contrast, going from maximum to minimum poverty increase trust by .66 points.

 No.9055

>>9054
From this we can see that diversity in culture language and race reduces trust but not by much.But what about a society where the ONLY difference is looks i.e different race and everyone speaks the same
language and has the same culture i.e civic nationalism or being cucked as far-righters call It. The results are completely favourable.

ACCENT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN RACE IN GUIDING CHILDRENS PREFERENCES
https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/soco.2009.27.4.623

 No.9056

File: 1618069489661.png (118.83 KB, 592x479, 007383.jpg.png)

>>9055
==THE DIFFERENCE IN TRUST BETWEEN A 100% WHITE NEIGHBOURHOOD AND A 1% WHITE NEIGHBOURHOOD WHERE NEIGHBOURS TALK WITH EACH OTHER
I.E SHARE THE SAME LANGUAGE AND CULTURE IS 0.08 OUT OF 3 THAT IS ONLY A 2.6% CHANGE IN TRUST FROM 100% TO 1%.==
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-9248.2007.00717.x

 No.9057

>>9054
>>9056
P.S you might ask why is this important? It is beacuse Leftist's has no counter to Right-wingers arguaments that diversity is a hinderance
not a strength. I have seen countless times that a rightoid swiftly rolls over Leftists and makes a smooth arguament for ethnostates
while convincing and Radicalising people.
==IF YOU THINK WE CAN ESCAPE REFUTING THIS ARGUAMENT LOOK AT THIS THREAD OVER 31K UPVOTES IN
AN OSTENIBLY LEFTIST SUBREDDIT AND THE LEFTISTS HAVE NO ANSWER==
.https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/mnfkvg/that_explains_why_they_promote_diversity_so_much/

 No.9058

>>9057
>>9056
>>9055
some more studies backing our cause.
>Finally, Kikergaard (2017) analyzed data on 3,100 US counties while looking at how ethnic diversity related to a county socioeconomic status. This analysis found that the relationship between ethnic diversity and SES goes away after controlling for cognitive ability.
https://rpubs.com/EmilOWK/racial_homogeneity_study_2017

>Alesina and Ferrara (2002) looked at the relationship between racial diversity, ethnic diversity, and income inequality, with trust. Income inequality and racial diversity each correlated weakly at -.1 with trust, while ethnic diversity correlated even more weakly at -.03.

https://scholar.harvard.edu/alesina/publications/who-trusts-others

>Guest et al. (2008) looked at 3 measures of social capital. While diversity had a statistically significant effect in a multivariate model, it explained less than 1% variation in various measures of social capital.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0042098007087333

>Lipford and Yandle (2009) find that a 10% increase in diversity RAISES volunteerism by 1 per 100 people. A 10% increase in people with a college degree increases volunteerism by 5-6 people per 100.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053535708001741

 No.9059

>>9058
So please If you're a Leftist and reading this, spread this Information make memes to counter the right.Make other Leftists aware of this,just spread this information via whatever medium so the next time a rightoid sings the praises of homogenuity you can debunk them.
If you have a plebbit account with more than 15 karma please post it on stupidpol also to evidencepill them since they had a struggle sesssion about it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/mnuapr/that_explains_why_they_promote_diversity_so_much/

 No.9060

From https://www.businessinsider.com/immigration-myths-open-us-borders-debunked-2018-8?op=1#myth-3-they-will-undermine-social-cohesion-3
It looked like a distinctly inconvenient truth, when the famous sociologist Robert Putnam conducted a study in 2000 which revealed that diversity undermines cohesion in communities. Specifically, he found that it makes people less trustful of each other and less inclined to form friendships or do voluntary work. Basically, as Putnam concluded on the basis of a staggering 30,000 interviews, it makes them "pull in like a turtle."

Shocked, he put off releasing his findings for years. When they were finally published in 2007, the effect was — predictably — akin to dropping a bombshell. Hailed as one of the most influential sociological studies of the century, Putnam's research was cited in countless newspapers and reports, and up until this very day he's the go­to source for politicians who doubt the benefits of a multicultural society.

There's only one problem. Putnam's findings were debunked years ago.

A later retrospective analysis of 90 studies found no correlation whatsoever between diversity and social cohesion. Not only that, as sociologists Maria Abascal at Princeton University and Delia Baldassarri at New York University discovered, Putnam had made a critical error. He hadn't taken account of the fact that African Americans and Latinos report lower levels of trust, regardless of where they live. When you adjust for this, Putnam's shocking discovery crumbles to dust.

So, if diversity isn't to blame for the lack of cohesion in modern­ day society, what is? The answer is simple: poverty, unemployment, and discrimination. "It is not the diversity of a community that undermines trust," conclude Abascaland Baldassarri, "but rather the disadvantages that people in diverse communities face."

More on that from https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-diversity-create-distrust/

 No.9061

>>9059
>>9060
Also can someone make memes in order to disseminate this Info easily. Like in the style of a rightoid redpill meme

 No.9062

>>9060
But my point is that most Leftists don't know this as evidenced by the r/ABD thread that's why I'm asking Y'all to disseminate this.

 No.9063

I think this is great and I’m glad you’re trying to make this a thing. But I also think it’s kinda irrelrvant at this current juncture.

The rightoids who want to spread their race and culture brainworms don’t care, but more importantly, they aren’t in power. Libs are our enemy, and they don’t care much about immigrants.

 No.9064

>>9063
Look at that thread with 31K upvotes, are you not aware that this talking point is a rightid one we must counter.

 No.9065

>>9063
Also can someone make a redpill meme out of the data.

 No.9066

>>9064
It’s reddit and stupidpol, moreover. They aren’t politically important.

 No.9067

>>9054
I personally don't worship at the idol of diversity. There are, fittingly enough, diverse kinds of diversity. Thinking of it as a universal good in all instances is an ideological quirk with little to speak for it in the realms of fact or even common sense.

There is a certain transaction cost in terms of cognitive friction requisite for individuals from given backgrounds to communicate and cooperate. When you visit an unfamiliar foreign country, we summarize this friction cost as "culture shock." It's harder to operate within a cultural system unfamiliar to your own. Now, in a culturally diverse society, the friction is increased for all participants, because nobody can be expected to know how to transact in all cultures with equal finesse. So instead what you get is people self-segregating into pockets of the society that require the least effort for them to operate in. The more transactional friction cost needed for two people to interact successfully, the less likely they are. So cultural diversity is socially fracturing.

Yet there are other kinds of diversity, diversity of thought, perspective, culinary influence, and so on, which are a net positive. A culture of yes-men who all have the same ideas and agree on the same things without debate is one that will tend to innovate less.

All in all diversity is the value of the bourgeois liberal elite, who have the sophisticated educations, mobility and exposure to a "diverse" upper class from around the world, rather than diverse uneducated poor people. So it seems like it should work for everybody because it works for them.

Diversity also obscures class relations. There's nothing diverse about the class system most people fall in one bucket and only a privileged few in the other.

 No.9068

>>9063
Do you have any idea what's the level of the european discourse on immigration ?

 No.9069

>>9054
Also I might add that "diversity initiatives" that seek to hire people on a non-color-blind basis inherently recognize race as a differentiating category and assume that there is something essentially different about a black woman hire rather than a white male hire. So pro-diversity "positive discrimination" practices do not get out from under racism but perpetuate it with a different framing.

 No.9070

>>9067
>>9069
But what I'm trying to do is defeat rightoids, since they can use this field where they have full control of the narrative to bring people to their side.

 No.9071

>>9067
Yeah, fuck off.

 No.9072

>>9070
If you want to "defeat" rightoids then you will have to accept that the USA is one of the most diverse countries on the entire planet. This diversity is constantly used a wedge to explain why public health care is unattainable with excuses like "it's because RACISTS don't want to pay for a non-white's healthcare" when the insurance industry itself is never mentioned. Likewise, they highlight diversity as a possible way to depress workers organizing when in extremely homogeneous parts of the US, like Appalachia or something, are having hard times organizing in the current climate regardless of how diverse their communities are.

The culprit is, as it has been for the past 40 years, the culture of deference and obsequiousness to neoliberal ideology and the hellish idea that your suffering in the economy is due to personal responsibility.

 No.9073

>>9072
No I want to defeat rightoids in the Information war on the diversity question which is of supreme importance, that's why I'm saying spread the word. And asking someone to make a redpill chart.

 No.9074

>>9065
I'll try to do it, opening my laptop rn because I am on phone. The first time I try this

 No.9075

>>9074
Thank you, please just put the sources also It's because I don't have photoshop on my computer.

 No.9076

>>9054
>>9058
>>9060
good posts. It's shocking how often anti-black, anti-immigrant, and anti-third-world talking points like this are parroted by "normal" people. This argument is everywhere on 4chan and it's even believed on the supposedly "leftist" stupidpol, where leftism is good for western white people, but bad if you extend it to Mexicans and trans people.
Anti-diversity talking points are nationalistic by nature, and diversity is one of the most commonly used words by the right, right up there with bigot (used ironically) and slurs. Empiricist and materialist counterpoints to these talking points are very important to countering right-wing propaganda. Diversity might not seem important to us, who don't give a shit about things like it, but it takes up a huge amount of space in the right-wing psyche. So much so that you can tell a former right-winger if they have a negative gut reaction to the word.

 No.9077

>trust into neighbours as a measured unit
this is what retarded people seize upon
retarded shit
if you ever thought about ending it, do yourself the favor and follow through

 No.9078

>>9076
Yeah Breadtube and the Left has done great work in pushing back against rightoid talking points like Vuvuzuela100million etc. Infact I see a huge amount of contention on reddit about the Holodmor but nothing against this rightoid talking point.
>>9077
How else will you measure the effects of diversity?

 No.9079

>>9078
>>9076
>>9071
Also If someone could post like not a comment but a post on this to r/stupidpol I would be happy since they had a struggle session about this today.I have reddit but my account doesn't have enough karma.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/mnfkvg/that_explains_why_they_promote_diversity_so_much/

 No.9080

>>9071
Not an argument, silly bitch.

 No.9081


 No.9082

>>9075
Working on it

 No.9083

>>9070
Defeating rightiods means working within reality not with make-believe. You can't fight fire with fire, illusions with illusions. Use water–use the facts and but present them in a way that goes against their aims. Diversity is a lie and a spook, but this does not mean everyone should be white and Christian or whatever bullshit the right cooks up. But trying to hold up an ideology that is contrary to reality is not a solution.

 No.9084

>>9078
> How else will you measure the effects of diversity?
you don’t. why does it matter how much you trust your neighbors in the first place? I don’t trust my neighbors. I’ll be polite them and give them common courtesy, but I don’t fucking trust them at all. because trusting someone is not the same thing as getting along with them or even working with someone. there are also different elements of trust to begin with. what do I trust them to do exactly, and in what situation? this is the problem with trying to use raw analytics for trying to measure social movements.
social movement is only worked out dialectically.

 No.9085

>>9078
(cont.) if you want to WORK OUT the affects of dialectics, you actually need to observe and record social situations between individuals where diversity manifests itself. not by surveying someone’s allegiance to an abstraction like “trust” that is very vague and doesn’t establish itself as something consistent in day to day reality at all.

 No.9086

>>9085
*the affects of diversity
not dialectics lol

 No.9087

>>9083
Also, it's beneficial to penetrate into the liberal class's true motives for pushing diversity as the end all be all. Like I said, it obfuscates class relations. It divides people. It gives people more reason to be conscious of what they don't have in common. It is the perfect ideology of the ruling class, divisive yet innocuous, cynically exploited but on the surface level virtuous and socially conscious.

 No.9088

>>9083
What? diversity is real diversity in language and culture hurts worker solidarity to an extent. Race as long as both culture and language are the same doesn't matter contrary to what rightoids claim.
>>9085
>>9084
>>9086
Ask the sociologists not me.This is simply using the right's logic to combat the right.

Also could someone evidencepill r/stupidpol about this.They had a struggle session thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/mnuapr/that_explains_why_they_promote_diversity_so_much/

 No.9089

File: 1618074764164.jpg (207.7 KB, 950x638, sometimes naive.jpg)

>>9063
>The rightoids who want to spread their race and culture brainworms don’t care, but more importantly, they aren’t in power.

 No.9090

>>9089
Yes but we need to address this, so the right can't dictate the narrative, in the r/ABD Sub when this stuff was 31K the mods had no response it was a shitshow.
.https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/mnfkvg/that_explains_why_they_promote_diversity_so_much/

 No.9091

>>9090
Just look at the shitshow of a thread it's absolutely horrible.

 No.9092

>>9054
Bump

 No.9093

>>9082
Fuck, sorry OP but I can't do it. I don't have the photoshop skill to do a redpill chart. I just tried. Its all pixelated and shitty. Sorry OP

 No.9094

>>9093
Or maybe a simple text document with the sources?

 No.9095

>>9094
That isn't what he asked for retard. He specifically said what he wanted

 No.9096

>>9095
It's me and I would be Okay with a text meme.

 No.9097

>>9096
I can show you how it looks in a sec. then you can see my problem with it

 No.9098


 No.9099

>>9088
Culture and language are also socially propagated phenomena and people who look different can be assimilated.

 No.9100

Diversity under capitalism and imperialism is exploited by capitalists to divide workers. Creating lower social trust is a deliberate tactic for social control that maintains the capitalist order.

Diversity under socialism wouldn’t have this problem, and in fact socialism needs to use the opposite tactic, promoting solidarity and trust preserves the socialist order.

Imperialism and the US seeks to Balkanize other nations on racial lines, keeping the the populace fighting each other instead of the imperialists. Similarly, it seeks to Balkanize its own population.

 No.9101

>>9059
>make memes to counter the right.
Some already exist like picture relatedsocialismSocialism

 No.9102

Great thread, OP. When this thread becomes inactive I will make sure to archive it.

 No.9103

>>163133
And they say leftist memes are “mucho texto”

 No.9104

>>163133
t.

 No.9105

>>163133
A reckless exaggeration, I'm white as a sheet. Update your meme to reflect reality immediately

 No.9106

>>9059
mfw stupidpol is to the left of ABoringDystopia

 No.9107

>>9088
probably a retarded question but i saw someone in the thread claiming that one of the factors leading to the collapse of the USSR was the animosity between the numerous ethnic groups that lived in it. how true is this if at all

 No.9108

>>9107
Er somewhat, the USSR started off 80% Russian but by the end was 50%.But most of the collapse was caused by the Baltics and the Caucuses republics. All the other ethnic minority republics voted to stay.

 No.9109

>>9097
Can you post the meme? Please
>>9105
>>9102
>>9106
Talking about that could any of you evidencepill stupidpol by making a post with this information, since they deal with that very often.

 No.9110

>>9109
Stupidpol had a better response to it than the pathetic ABD mod crying about the messenger. Stupidpol just outright debunked the study in some of the top comments.
Stop shitting yourself over a dead reddit thread.

 No.9111

>>9106
Never been to "ABoringDystopia" but the name sounds like it'd be full of reactionaries who think a dystopian capitalist shithole is supposed to be cool.

 No.9112

>>9110
Yes but they didn't have any data to back it up, and I just wanted to add data so that the next time rightoids whip out an article, It can be debunked using studies. Also my main point is that posting it on stupidpol will cause the information to spread among Leftists.
>>9111
It's a shitty clone of r/LSC but both are Leftist.

 No.9113

>>9088
It hurts worker solidarity to the extent that people let it hurt worker solidarity.

Again and again in my historical readings, "diversity" is a factor in the failure of Leftist projects.

Or rather, what injured, impeded, or imploded these projects and initiatives wasn't that it was full of diverse groups from disparate races, cultures, and religions, but that, depending on the case, there were interested parties that benefited from racial or ethnic conflict, sections of the proletariat that hadn't cast off their illusory connection to "their" country or delusions of patriotism, particularism which prevented different groups with likeminded objectives from uniting in solidarity, or qualities within portions of these groups which prevented collaboration on other integral projects.

Examples:

Chicago Steel Strike of 1910: the strike fails in part because of the lack of participation of black workers. Racism was a factor particularly on the union side as some refused to admit or solicit black workers, but on the other side were interested parties in the black community that would have had their influential positions threatened by unions giving black workers further agency, particularly among the preachers and ministers of the black religious communities.

Second International: A major contributing factor in its collapse was WW1 and many workers abandoning the international to throw their lives away dying in an imperialist war.

In the 1960s inspired by groups like the Black Panthers, other identity groups formed such as those for Asians and Hispanics in the Western United States. Each pursued their own interests, accomplished little or nothing, and then became little more than advocacy groups for privileged portions of those populations. Sometimes these groups were dedicated to identities which encompassed reactionary views and mores, such as the strong current of sexual chauvinism and machismo in Chicano culture which put them at odds with other groups whose interests otherwise aligned.

Again and again the pattern if divisions causing strife plays out, but again and again it isn't the differences or diversity of these groups per se, so much as these differences were able to be exploited by interested parties, and for every instance of "diversity" causing division you can find examples of extremely diverse groups of people coming together to overcome these imaginary divisions in order to succeed, such as the 1912 Lawrence Textile Strike.

 No.9114

>>9112
I was actually going to just link you the comment that BTFOs the article but of course now it's vanished.
Look up the issues with the original study itself, apparently black and latino workers just have lower trust wherever they are no matter the makeup of the workplace, and this was not accounted for when compared to a totally white workplace, lowering the average.

 No.9115

>>9114
My point is that we can't let the right control the narrative, that's why I'm bugging people to post an explanation on stupidpol so Leftist's know and it spreads.

 No.9116

>>9113
Yeah I think modern Idpol is a cause of a lot of rifts when diversity is present.

 No.9117

>>9116
I think so, yeah. Nothing says "solidarity" and "equality" quite like a racially waited "progressive stack" amirite?

 No.9118

>>9115
I posted a comment with data

 No.9119

>>9118
Thanks but I was talking about posts.

 No.9120

Bump

 No.9121

>>9063
Liberals (classical liberals in simple English) are rightoids but not far-right.


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