What the fuck was up with communist parties back then associating being gay with the petit-bourgeoisie? What exactly about fucking a dude is petit-bourgeois?
63 posts and 10 image replies omitted.>>1375>communist parties back then associating being gay with the petit-bourgeoisie?Not going to waste an hour reading the entire thread, but lots of Marxist-Leninist parties are still like this today.
The Greek communist party (KKE) is still very anti-LGBT, in Britain there's two ML parties, one which is still very anti-LGBT (CPGB-ML) and one which accepts LGB but not T (CPB).
Why isn't this thread on
>>>/LGBT/ ?
>>1405also it ignores that gay people want to adopt but are often prevented from doing so due to discrimination. So I really don't get the argument that "oooooh you're not doing your party of reproducing the work force" when so many straights abandon their kids and then LGBT aren't allowed to adopt for not being "normal"
t. was raised by lesbians
>>1464Dumb argument to make tbh. They're communist but their intellectual capacity is absolute garbage. Just see the KKE and the dumb shit they publish. Unfortunately, due to living in the blackest reaction, communist parties in the west are absolute garbage.
I don't understand how people can read Marxist theory and come out not understanding the fundamental notions of it. Instead it feels like they memorized terms and apply their morality on top.
CPGB-ML and CPB as mentioned too. But also the so-called anti-campists on this board. Apparently 0 reading. We're so lost in the west, and I don't see a way out.
>>1476see also the "new soviet man" archetype that was pushed a lot
also the soviet woman archetype who was increasingly depicted as a baby oven
>>1375I don't really have any stake in the argument about gays being bourgeois
As a whole though, as a group, we're very alienated (despite / because of all the awesome kinky hookups, hedonism, international travel, etc that we're "enjoying")
https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/gay-loneliness/I find str8s tend to project this fantasy onto LGBT people being completely liberated when that's not actually the case
>>1476The Soviet union was a backwater largely peasant uneducated society. I don't know why Marxists pretend this doesn't have an influence on the ideology present in various parts of society. As if by establishing a communist state, it eliminated all social ills instantly and everyone suddenly became a Marxist scholar, a historian, and a scientist.
It's no surprise that people like Haz and the schizos at ACP, or the CPGB-ML exists. Or that the rather well read but poorly socialized first worlder semi-autistic shut ins that haven't done a second of praxis in their lives that lurk around here have absolute dog shit takes. It's almost as if Marx wrote about this somewhere.
>>1401>The communist understanding of sexuality has, since the counter-revolutions in Europe in 1989 and the dissolution of the USSR, been conveniently buried and forgotten.What a retarded sentence.
How the fuck can you come to the conclusion that homophobia is a cornerstone of communism? It's about as ridiculous as arguing that phrenology is a cornerstone of biology. Just because a lot of people were engaging in it at one time doesn't mean it's an essential aspect of the movement. Science is constantly changing and adapting to new information and ways of thinking.
Cockshott uses this statement to poorly launder (what he thinks is) a more "palatable" homophobia that has "nuanced" "dialectical" positions. Oh gay men are bad but lesbians are fine. How convenient for a straight old boomer. Impressive, very nice, now let's see your search history.
>>1476They should have just gulaged the conservatives as the obvious counter-revolutionaries they would prove to be.
When china had racist riots they just shot the conservatards and that was settled. Either re-educate or shoot.
>A majority of Clevelanders surveyed seem to agree is that it is a city of couples. A high percentage of those interviewed by The ADVOCATE were, themselves, currently involved in primary relationships of one to 16 years in duration.
>"There seems to be a tendency in Cleveland for people to couple up instead of remaining single," David Feltham notes. "It's that kind of town. But as a result, everybody is into their own little social group and un-willing to let other people in. It is very cliquish in Cleveland."https://reddit.com/r/rsforgays/comments/1ki25p6/advocate_archives_cleveland_ohio_edition_1979/Saw these profiles from the Advocate of gay men living in Cleveland around 1979, some of them poor and proletarian.
Interesting that nearly all of them are monogamous, very different to what was happening in Los Angeles, NYC, SF at the time.
>>1506The party was also filled with people who weren't really good Marxists plus they simply couldn't escape their historically contingent moment. If centuries later people like cockshott can't do it either, with mountains and mountains of research into the topic of homosexuality in a huge variety of fields, there was not a lot of hope for the burgeoning soviet republic. Even then, people forget how homophobic the entire west was. The DDR was groundbreaking in this regard. Everywhere else in the west was absolutely horrible.
>>1509>>1507Just mathematically it doesn't make sense that gays are bourgeois. Plus there have been many studies that confirm that incidence of homosexuality is pretty uniform independent of time and place, not to mention that people seemingly have a set sexuality since very very early in life, which wouldn't make sense with the class component angle.
>>1485its complicated
the soviet union made a lot of leaps in reforming rights in favor of women, and industrialization freed a lot of them from patriarchal peasant life, but under stalin these developments were curbed a bit
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