help me out here /lgbt/. I was hanging out at the local anarchist book club the other day and, because it has a high concentration of trans people, there was a discussion about trans issues. since I don't really care I was just listening
one of the people there, who is a trans man, was talking about how they're a lesbian. it's at this point that I feel like an immense boomer, because in my head lesbian = women fucking women. can someone please enlighten me how this is supposed to work? does gender stop existing when SEX is involved? or is it just calling a spade a spade?
>>3946>spoilerwow that's very essentialist of you anon, how dare you?
>>3947the conclusion I'm coming to is that within queer spaces there are no fixed categories. there are no brakes on the pomo train
>I can’t wait for “male lesbian” to dropit's going to come full circle eventually
>>3944>I feel like an immense boomer, because in my head lesbian = women fucking womenStill is that definition in my head. No matter what nu-definitions come along, see: chevron flag.
>>3946So what I get is these trans men have hung around lesbians for so long that when they begin transitioning there's an hesitancy on their part to break clean with lesbians? Ditto with bisexual lesbians.
I'm starting to see why (some) lesbians do complain, you're the sinkhole of the queer community permanently open to whomsoever wants to take your identity, I've seen a bit of this with ace people and with how many want to be ace despite they tolerating, wanting or even craving sex. Though not to the extent it affects lesbians.
>>3997Why are you homo-fascists smelling up this site.
Please read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essentialism Geez, so many people in this thread are being assholes about it. You've gotta keep up with queer vocabulary from all eras if you want to be an effective ally/member of the community. It's the same as with leftist action.
When you're eighty years old, kids will tell you that it's praxis for hypergender people to be in solidarity with organic robotkin, you're not gonna understand a single fucking word of that sentence, and it'll be your job to not only learn, but put aside your preconceptions and get in touch with what modern communities need out of their liberation, and put their needs on the same level as your own, never lesser just because they sound weird.
Male lesbians are a thing, because people are trying to express a complex internal truth with English words and that's how it translates out, even if it sounds contradictory.
They may mean a lot of different things by it - that they're a man but they want to be in a romantic situation with a woman that is more stereotypically lesbian-coded, that they don't view themselves as being entirely a man and their romantic side is feminine and female-attracted, that they found community with lesbians in the past and know that they'll have their back so they wear it like a badge of honor, etc etc etc.
If it's frustrating that it could be any one of a thousand explanations and the words "male lesbians" simply don't do the whole thing justice, blame language or the inherent complexity of humans, not the male lesbian himself for not being easy enough to categorize. I would think that would go without saying but apparently not.
>>3944Non-trans "allies" being the first to police trans people is so fucking classic. You don't get good boy points for enforcing a strict gender binary that's "inclusive" of trans people.
Here's the reality: every trans person (forgetting intersex people since they don't fit anywhere) has life experiences as both genders, and has their natal sex opposite their gender. They can make their bodies artificially intersex, but they can never become the other sex fully. And they can never become a person who hasn't experienced living as the gender and sex opposite their current one. So if a female is bumping coochies with another female, and wants to express to others that that is what they're into and what sex with them will be like, lesbian is an okay label. Even if the female has a deep voice, a fat clit, a beard, and dresses like a guy. Trans people simply cannot fit into any binary labels easily. So we have "allies" on the left screeching about lesbian trans men, and opponents on the right who screech about trans people tricking straights. It's lose-lose. Please stfu and let us at least have some peace from the left
>>3944already touched upon on
>>2429
< Queer label discourse is so stupid why do people put so much importance on labels, especially the fact they don’t mean anything. Plenty of cis people use the trans label, a lot of bi women call themselves lesbians, many straight men also sleep with guys like labels unironically mean nothing. I saw this discourse about whether lesbianism includes people who aren't women or people who are attracted to men, like 😭 okay, why are people even spending their life energy arguing this stuff, like online people talk a lot of shit they don't stand on in real life and they can argue all day about that online but what really matters it what occurs IRL.>>4000its what happens when people think ideas literally turn reality around
>>4022>>2765>lesbianism = non-men attracted to non-menwhen the pomo goes so far as to completely eradicate the existence of women. instead we have men and non-men. it's progressive you see
>many straight men also sleep with guysthose men are lying to themselves. it's always some variant of
>i-it's not gay if the balls don't touch/if we don't kiss/if I only give and don't receive (unless it's oral in which case it's the opposite)when in fact it's hella gay
>>3944I've actually had some problems with this. I tell people I'm a lesbian now and then a couple transmascs asked me out so like I said, I respect you are non-binary and you can use the label, but I am into not attracted to people on testosterone with facial hair etc.. And they were fine about it obviously. I think maybe I just don't like lesbian culture in general the same way I don't like gay culture.
>>4013>When you're eighty years old, kids will tell you that it's praxis for hypergender people to be in solidarity with organic robotkin, you're not gonna understand a single fucking word of that sentence, and it'll be your job to not only learn, but put aside your preconceptions and get in touch with what modern communities need out of their liberation, and put their needs on the same level as your own, never lesser just because they sound weird.This but unironically. If you are a communist you must be able to understand and engage with normal people and not drag behind them.
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