/lgbt/ - LGBT

Can't you use testosterone gel to stop your dick from atrophying or something?

>>5933
yes, but that only stops atrophying. My balls would still shrink, my cum would still turn clear, my orgasms would still become weird, etc.

>>5934
wigga do you want to stay a child or some shit

>>5934
>my cum would still turn clear
I've met a few trans women that had normal looking cum, not sure what their routine was.
>my orgasms would still become weird
Weird, but better.

someone said that the way dick atrophy works is "use it or lose it"
meaning that if you keep using it it probably won't

most trans porn actresses i've seen have fairly normal penises

>>5940
Yeah just research DIY HRT instead of relying on retarded doctors who only care about profit, you'll be fine

>>5934
Is that really such a big deal? especially compared to a masculinized body

>>5942
Its a big deal to me, I dont want to have to feel dysphoric about my genitals for the rest of my life.
>>5940
From what ive seen, most of them have horrifically tiny balls and barely cum at all, it just makes me more terrified of starting hrt.
>>5941
I did research diy hrt. Its what ive been planning to do, but ball shrinkage is still irreversible so i cant bring myself to do it. I just have to kill myself

>>5943
>ball-shrinkage
autism

>>5943
>dysphoric
Why do you want to stop masculinization if you don't want to be a woman? You know there's things you take just to stop hair loss and stuff right?

>>5945
I dont want to be a woman, and i dont want to be a man. Something is deeply wrong with me and it can never be fixed. Stopping hair loss isnt enough when theres so many other things masculinization will do to me that will utterly ruin my body.

>>5946
Would have probably been good to open with the fact that you're nonbinary. I'm sure you can find other nb people to ask about getting the body you want. Some specialists might be able to help too but that's always gonna be a toss up.

>>5941

oh i don't mind, if my dick fell off the next day i'd be perfectly fine with it.

i might freeze some sperm tho.

>>5947
> nonbinary
Why has everyone forgotten about gnc?

>>5947
I dont think im nonbinary either. Closest to what i want to be is a femboy, but it seems impossible to be a femboy forever without doing hrt, so im still screwed.

>>5949
>Why has everyone forgotten about gnc?
They literally said they don't want to be male or female, that's called nonbinary.
>>5950
>I dont think im nonbinary either. Closest to what i want to be is a femboy
…okay fine, GNC it is.

I don't think being a femboy with smaller testicles is as bad as you think. They don't even shrink that much. Look into it some more.

>>5951
it seems to vary wildly between people for how much it shrinks, but since its irreversible i cant just try it out and then decide to quit if it ever shrinks too much for my comfort. Also I dont think anyone would let me top them if my balls were embarrasingly small

Op are you me, fuck

>>5961
Nice to know im not the only one who feels this way, but unfortunately it seems both of us are screwed

>>5946
Gonna level with you chief, I don't think "masculinization" in the sense of somehow becoming more manly as you age is a thing, apart from maybe going bald. Testosterone actually decreases with age you know. Aging isn't going to change your bone structure or anything like that. It can change your metabolism and cause wrinkles, but this happens to women too. "Twinkdeath" is literally just aging, which would still happen if you were on HRT.

>>6004
I know it cant change my current bone structure, but i heard it would prevent my bone structure and body as a whole from growing more masculine in the future.
I dont want to end up with massively broad shoulders and the extremely masculine frame that my dad has.

>>6013
>but i heard it would prevent my bone structure and body as a whole from growing more masculine in the future
That's what I'm saying Anon, that doesn't happen. Once you're through puberty your basic body shape is set for life. The idea that people become more masculine in the future, "twinkdeath" etc is essentially a socially constructed illusion. It's because female/feminine beauty standards are more closely associated with youth, whereas male beauty standards are more accommodating for aging. Apart from baldness, there isn't really anything about aging that will make you look more masculine as such. Wrinkles and weight gain are normal problems that affect women just as much.

>>6038
But then how come i see so many trans people lamenting that they didnt start hrt at 18 or 19? And also seeing trans people say the body fully masculinizes at 25 so its best to start before then? Is that all just false?

>>6122
Because the long stretch where you could have HRT but didn't often feels senseless when you do get it and your body fully embraces it.

And, yeah, bones do solidify a little past ~21-25, but, like, people have gone on it at age 65 and haven't regretted a thing.

"Masculinization" is only deemed so because of the way our cultural perspectives of gendered beauty exclude women for arbitrarily having masculine traits, even if we're all the same hairless monkey species and our beauty standards are centered around fertility markers.

>>5950
Sorry, Anon, you just have to pay the ball troll's ball toll.
How do you think the greeks did it?

>>6124

you're not helping uygha

>>6125
Yeah, but they lived cool as shit lives is my point.
[Unless you were a slave, women, etc.]

Would you prefer to live 80 years but look like ass, or live up to 40 and have a harem? With my new tape, now you can…

>>6123
>And, yeah, bones do solidify a little past ~21-25,
how much do they solidify? how noticeable is it? Will it make me shoulders appear broader, or my ribcage larger?
>>6124
The greeks werent into femboys, they were just into children. Its not comparable
>>6126
If i would live a short life either way, why wouldnt i just live out the last few years of my youth with my balls intact, and just kill myself when i hit twink death. Still, i have no idea what point you are trying to make

>>6124
>How do you think the greeks did it?
For the Greeks homosexuality (or rather bottoming) was more like a temporary stage in your life. You got buggered by an older man when you were in your late teens and early 20s, then you got to bugger guys like that when you were older. Somebody remaining a bottom and trying to appear feminine after the "appropriate" age for such things would have been frowned upon.

>>6130
I'm sure there were guys that still bottomed past their early twenties but they were still handsome.
They weren't feminine in looks nor demeanor.

>>6129
>The greeks werent into femboys, they were just into children. Its not comparable

No. They were into young adult males with cute looks.

>>6129
>The greeks werent into femboys, they were just into children
are you implying those into """femboys""" arent pedos too. its literally just some anime porn shit, not some fucking gender

>>6146
Femboy just means feminine boy. Theres nothing inherently sexual about it. you just watch too much porn and its poisoned your brain. gender noncomformity isnt a feitsh

>>6143
nta but while there were grown men who bottomed, they were universally looked down upon in ancient greece

>>6004
>>6038
>>6123
you are wrong, you do keep masculinizing over time which is why 50 year olds cant really pass while an 18yo has a better chance
your face, ribcage, etc all masculinize, you do not magically stop being affected by sex hormones somewhere between age 18 and 20
>>5950
get this through your head: you will NEVER be a femboy
femboys in porn are just shotas, femboys in real life are quirky afab women on tiktok, you are not either
also you can preserve your dick on hrt, just need to diy, your balls do not really shrink and become tiny, so pick what you want already because the clock will never stop ticking
i think a good way to think about this is asking yourself what you want to look like in old age

>>6152
>you will NEVER be a femboy
god forbid a man want to be gender nonconforming
>also you can preserve your dick on hrt, just need to diy
how? Its not like the estrogen they give at the doctor is gonna be any different from diying. I was gonna diy either way but still
> your balls do not really shrink and become tiny
They do though? ive seen so many trans women say that it happens and that its also irreversible too.
>i think a good way to think about this is asking yourself what you want to look like in old age
I dont want to be old. Imagining myself as an old man or an old woman both make me want to blow my brains out. Being an old man would be slightly worse, but still either way i would rather be dead in both outcomes

There is nothing wrong with being masculine. You are a man. If you think an aged man's body is "disgusting" you hate your own body and need to fix that because it's a huge mental issue.
>>5946
Just stop wanting to be some nonexistent third thing then, it's all in your head. Why can't you just accept what you are?

>>6154
shut up gincel

>>6153
oh shit its you? i think we talked on that other board and i asked if you were the one who posted another thread about shrunken balls because i didn't realize it was here lol

if your the "visual balls" guy tbh i think you are screwed cause like all the options do something to balls or erections. i was gonna recommend like fin or dut or low dose AA but they all can cause complications you would have to compromise somewhere.

you could always just stay really fit with diet and cardio and do skincare and stay out of the sun maybe see how you respond to things like fin or dut or herbals or even aas maybe you wont get side effects and it can save your body by slowing things a bit in case you change your mind about what is important later. i did a sorta vegan anorexia daily overdose on spearmint tea and idk how much is genetics effort or luck but im thankful for it even tho i fucked it up in the last stretch getting a bit dadbodded pushing me over the edge. probably gonna have to pray for genetics and luck tbh a lot of my relatives are masced tf out idk how i managed

>how? Its not like the estrogen they give at the doctor is gonna be any different from diying. I was gonna diy either way but still
doctors usually give you aas and diy is often mono e which means its "use it or lose it" but also ymmv and i am un/misinformed about aas

idk you could just try it and stop if you hate it and 99% of it would reverse if you dont wait months/years afiak. people even say the breast tissue basically goes away if you are fast about it and you dont get shrinkage till 6 months to a year

like you might change your mind if you get on it but i dont know you and you know you the best and i dont wanna be pushy or a groomer or whatever and you said its important to you and i cant tell from through the internet if thats repper cope or real.

and im seeing in the other thread if thats you also dont want breasts either and a lot of people say that until they get them but they also want shrinkage so who knows

i want to help have you seen this article
https://transfemscience.org/articles/nonbinary-transfem-overview/#testosterone-suppression-with-high-doses-of-progestogens

i personally dont consider things with side effects but maybe you could find a non-binary specific doctor and try to get them to prescribe you low-dose bicalutamide and raloxifene? if your luck that would suppress some t and according to AI bica at low dose doesnt shrink balls and ralox prevents breast growth but theres nasty side effects. just suppressing T all the way would give you bone problems but ralox is actually a estrogen replacement for menopausal women with high breast cancer risk so they dont get weak bones. it just might give you hot flashes and other stuff. id be worried with partial suppression you might get rebound increase in T but you could try it sense you are kinda backed in a corner and want to trade migraines and brain fog for keeping you chonky walnuts

>>6156
*from the link i just got around to reading because it told me that is bad advice

>Some potentially major advantages of high-dose bicalutamide monotherapy are that in contrast to marked or full suppression of testosterone levels, bicalutamide monotherapy largely preserves sexual desire and erectile function and likely does not result in infertility.

https://transfemscience.org/articles/nonbinary-transfem-overview/#testosterone-blockade-with-antiandrogens

>Another option is only partial demasculinization, which can be achieved essentially by using lower dosages of the medications discussed above (e.g., cyproterone acetate, bicalutamide). If desired, 5α-reductase inhibitors can be added in this context to more substantially decrease scalp hair loss and body hair growth. Note that if testosterone is more fully suppressed or blocked however, there is likely to be little or no benefit with 5α-reductase inhibitors.

>Yet another possibility could be to incorporate low-dose nandrolone decanoate, an androgen receptor agonist and anabolic–androgenic steroid (AAS) with much less masculinizing/androgenic effect in skin and hair follicles (Aly, 2020). This AAS will help to suppress and replace testosterone levels. Nandrolone decanoate might also have the benefit of helping to maintain sexual desire and function.

https://transfemscience.org/articles/nonbinary-transfem-overview/#other-options-for-testosterone-suppression

>However, if a SERM is combined with, say, bicalutamide alone, the situation may become even worse. This is because bicalutamide itself produces considerable increases in testosterone levels similarly to SERMs. In elderly men with prostate cancer, bicalutamide monotherapy induces a 1.5- to 2.0-fold rise in testosterone levels, increasing them from about 300–400 ng/dL to about 500–600 ng/dL (an absolute change of about 150–250 ng/dL) (Wiki). In healthy younger men, bicalutamide may increase testosterone levels into the upper end of the normal male range (potentially into the range of around 900–1,200 ng/dL) (Wiki).

>As bicalutamide is a competitive antagonist of the androgen receptor, its efficacy is fundamentally both dose-dependent and dependent on testosterone levels. Consequently, in combination with a SERM, it is possible that testosterone levels will become too high for bicalutamide to block. Moreover, endogenous androgens and estrogens are together responsible for maintaining normal homeostatic negative feedback on the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis (HPG axis) in people assigned male at birth. It seems logical that with little to suppress the axis, gonadal production and hence circulating levels of testosterone and estradiol may simply continue to rise until they overwhelm bicalutamide and/or the SERM it is combined with and restore negative feedback on the HPG axis. For these reasons, it is possible that the combination of bicalutamide and a SERM alone might not be a practical option for non-conventional feminizing hormone therapy.

>With all of that said however, the combination of bicalutamide and tamoxifen has been assessed in various studies in men with prostate cancer (PubMed), and increases in testosterone levels have, rather surprisingly, not been a problem in these studies. In terms of the findings, bicalutamide and tamoxifen together do, as expected, increase total testosterone levels. However, the rise in total testosterone levels is not much different from that which occurs with bicalutamide alone. Moreover, free testosterone levels are either increased to a certain degree or are not actually raised at all (Boccardo et al., 2005; Saltzstein et al., 2005; Fradet et al., 2007). This is thought to be due to the fact that SERMs have potent estrogenic effects in the liver and result in increased production of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), consequently reducing the fraction of free and hence bioactive testosterone in the circulation. This serves to offset the biological influence of the increase in total testosterone levels.

https://transfemscience.org/articles/nonbinary-transfem-overview/#selective-estrogen-receptor-modulators-and-testosterone-elevation

havent read about that one DYOR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamoxifen

>There are a few things to be aware of about breast development. One is that it happens slowly and is not something that becomes substantial overnight. Another is that will not continue to progress if hormones are withdrawn. And finally, it seems to be at least partially reversible if medications are discontinued within a certain amount of time (e.g., one year) (Mancino, Young, & Bland, 2018; Kanakis et al., 2019). However, a study found that bicalutamide monotherapy-induced gynecomastia outcome was worse if tamoxifen was introduced within a month of symptom onset rather than used from the start of therapy (Serretta et al. 2012). In any case, for the preceding reasons, a given individual could self-monitor their breast development, and, if it becomes too much for their liking, alter their medication regimen as desired in order to prevent further or reverse existing breast growth. Hence, breast development may not be something that should be feared excessively.

https://transfemscience.org/articles/nonbinary-transfem-overview/#degree-onset-and-reversibility-of-breast-development

aaaaccckkkkkkkk

>>6156
yea i am that guy. Ive tried staying fit with cardio and doing skincare but i was never able to keep doing it consistently on the daily and just gave up. I do starve myself though so maybe that helps a bit. But still I think masculinization would catch up to me eventually.
>doctors usually give you aas and diy is often mono e which means its "use it or lose it" but also ymmv and i am un/misinformed about aas
id be planning to do bica which doesnt have as many of the side effects other aas tend to have.
>you dont get shrinkage till 6 months to a year
Really? not even a little bit? I suppose I could try out hrt then if thats the case, but still i dont know what im going to do later down the line. Maybe I could just switch between being on and off estrogen once every few months but I doubt it would work
>and im seeing in the other thread if thats you also dont want breasts either
tbh breasts arent that big of a deal to me. The only reason i dont want them is because others might not view me as a twink anymore if they see breasts. If it werent for the way others would perceive me then I wouldnt mind growing boobs.
>low-dose bicalutamide and raloxifene?
That actually sounds really good. If the side effects of raloxifene are really that bad though, would doing this but with estrogen still work? Id still prefer no boobs but its something i could ultimately live with if ralox turns out to be too much for me.

>>6157
Thank you for these, ill have to read through these articles all fully later. Thank you so much for the long detailed replies, its made me feel much less hopeless.

no self-respecting trans woman or gay man would want to be some fucking twitter femboy

>>6129
>how noticeable is it?
All I know is that they do. Whatever shape they have becomes harder to change.

Will they broaden? I don't know, ask your endocrinologist, I don't know the levels of testosterone on your bloodstream, I'm sorry to say.

>The greeks werent into femboys, they were just into children. Its not comparable
You know, for a good moment I existed in a world where pedophilia didn't exist. Thank you for bringing me back down to earth.

Even then, not all Greek. #NotAllGreeks.

>Still, i have no idea what point you are trying to make
Point is, if you wanna live longer and feel nice about your body for longer, take the L, deal with some ball shrinkage, live long and prosper.

If you still have a complex about the ball thing, then read into it, I'm not your mother.
I'm pretty sure there's got to be some treatment on God's green earth that at least minimizes shrinkage.

And, if you aren't interested in that because it's not optimal, well, what are we doing here?

>>6152
>you do keep masculinizing over time which is why 50 year olds cant really pass
That's simply not true. I've seen photos of older transwomen in their 40s and 50s who pass perfectly fine. It's just that you have to expect to look like a woman in her 40s and 50s rather than a teenage anime girl. Shit I'd even categorize some of the ones I've seen as certified MILFs.
>your face, ribcage, etc all masculinize
What does this even mean? Are your bones breaking and reforming? How can your ribcage of all things "masculinize"? To the extent that this is possible it might have something to do with the distribution of fat or other soft tissue, but this is something HRT can address.
>you do not magically stop being affected by sex hormones somewhere between age 18 and 20
No but you don't experience permanent immutable changes past puberty as a result of simply having testosterone. Again, T is actually much higher in young men than in older ones. It makes no sense then that it would cause people to become more masculine as they age.

Whether somebody can pass or not has more to do with things like genetics than the age at which they transition. I'm 6'3, the child of muscular Slavic peasants, broad shouldered etc. There is absolutely no way I ever would have passed if I were to transition at any age, unless maybe it was so young that I had avoided male puberty altogether. I only experienced "twinkdeath" to the extent that I gained weight and deliberately grew facial hair. On the flip side I'm dating a guy who's 5'6 with a slight frame, who would probably be able to transition and pass at any age because no amount of T is going to change his tiny twink skeleton. Chill out comrade, the clock isn't ticking in the way you think it is.

>>6531
shut the fuck up you daft idiot, you have no idea what you're talking about, stop pretending to
you cannot fucking logic your way into understanding biology, get the fuck out of this thread and never post again, every single post you've made is rife with misinformation that will only end up making people's lives worse because you're some fucking 30 year old gay man who'd rather transhumanists stay men that you're attracted to
fucking kill yourself, scum

>>6532
Does testosterone change the shape of your bones after puberty? Yes or no? If it doesn't then I don't see how any sort of permanent "masculinization" could be a thing. If it does then I'd like to see the scientific evidence for this. Nobody has even specified what "masculinization" means exactly. Does it refer to changing bone structure? Face shape? Muscle and fat distribution? Hair growth or loss, wrinkles, weight gain? It's all very nebulous. Also, does this apply in the opposite direction? Would you tell a pre-HRT trans man over 30 that they'll be stuck with a feminine body forever because they feminize with age?
>because you're some fucking 30 year old gay man who'd rather transhumanists stay men that you're attracted to
I'm bisexual actually and attracted to cis and transwomen as well as men. I don't see how I'm making anybody's lives worse (least of all trans people's) by telling them they can successfully transition at any age and shouldn't just give up if they haven't done it before puberty.

>>6532
>>6534
Case in point: the Wachowskis. Lilly doesn't pass, Lana does. This is despite the fact that they are almost the same sage and both transitioned well into adulthood. One got lucky to be born with more feminine facial features and the other did not. This would have still been the case if Lilly had transitioned at 18.

>>6534
>>6535
uygha you are a bisexual chaser, stfu, go ruin people's lives on some other website
like i tell you the earth is round and you respond
<but what does "round" really mean? i'm not sure i understand
then don't talk about it, just shut up, be quiet, and don't talk
let the actual trans people give advice
puberty does not fully end till like your early 30s, and even then women don't start looking a bit more like men till menopause, which is where your misconception about older mtfs passing just fine comes from
not to mention all the socialization you miss out on that makes older trans women act like fucking freaks half the time, i dont wish that on anyone, you dgaf because you just wanna fuck them
also it's not my fucking job to go quote a bunch of studies because you won't stop mansplaining to everyone in the thread about a topic that you're completely uneducated on
also lana doesn't really pass honestly, it's just that post menopausal women also get masculinized somewhat
stop telling some vulnerable early/mid twenties guy that he just won't masculinize at all because "puberty is done"
just fuck off, please, you're so fucking stupid, i wish death upon every retarded moid chaser like you

>>6537
Sounds like you're just bitter than you're a hon and you want to convince everybody else that they'll be hons too so they shouldn't bother.

>>6538
keep coping and telling 20 year olds they should wait 30 years to transition buddy

oh cool its another one of Those threads

>>6552
That has zero correlation to literally anything in this entire thread you retard

>>6153
>>you will NEVER be a femboy
Can you try aiming to be something that isn't some anime porn shit? Like, Idk, a woman?

>>6534
>>6535
Hilarious, some retarded chaser with /tttt/ brainrot.

>>5929
microdose estrogen and take blockers and ralox

>>6556
>microdose E and block T
You are a massive moron. This will lead you to have low levels of both hormones which is very bad for your body, no matter your sex.

>>6557
source?

>>6558
Lol, you don't even know what the shit you're suggesting even does.
https://pghrt.diy/#S10.SS1
DHT blockers are closer to what OP wants but they aren't magic either and obviously less effective than simply transitioning to a woman.

>>6559
the thing you linked literally says bica does the job with no problems

>>6561
It says that antiandrogens suck compared to just taking E but if you absolutely need/want to take them, take bicalutamide.
Sometimes I forget idiots here are functionally illiterate.

>>6564
Now try scrolling down. Also put 2 and 2 together and realize that microdosing hormones in general is pretty useless and downright stupid in combination with blockers.

>>6562
it wouldn't be so bad if everyone wasn't so confidently wrong too

>>6562
>It says that antiandrogens suck compared to just taking E
moron that didn't read the OP