Cockshott &amp; the T

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File: 1772574584595-0.png (792.09 KB, 1808x1248, trans-gender_gap.png)

File: 1772574584595-1.webp (36.6 KB, 1080x1086, droptheg.webp)

File: 1772574584595-2.png (39.8 KB, 685x466, ClipboardImage.png)

Cockshott & the T Anonymous 03-03-26 21:49:46 No.7078

You know that Cockshott article?
Cockshott, P. (2020). Class, Demography, and Gay Politics in the West. World Review of Political Economy, 11(1).
and his writings on gays being more likely to have petty bourgeois class interests due to household income disparities?

I don't wholly agree with him, and there are several critiques of his paper to be made – e. g. his neglect of finer stratification within the 'LGBT movement', his making no attempt to account for confounding variables (which research into the economics of gender and sexuality is fraught with), his bold acceptance of income as a proxy of class – but it seems to me that his analysis can be extrapolated well to cover some aspects of transhumanistdom (which he seems to completely gloss over in his work).

If we apply his analysis to transhumanists, we will find that they rank below all other gender groups in come; moreover, in the case of transsexuals, they incur additional medical costs throughout their lives while being very commonly cut off from traditional familial economic support. Therefore, they are expected to be less likely to espouse petty bourgeois class interests, transgender women especially so. We see exactly that in the high rates of radicalization among them; we also see that lesbians are the most eager allies to transhumanists among cis people, which aligns with Cockshott's identification of them as the more progressive of the LG. This analysis can also be leveraged to explain the lower political mobilization of transgender men vs. women, the neoliberal co-optation of transgenderism vs. transsexualism etc., but that's stepping into the territory of lacking data and/or unquantifiable metrics.

I suppose that makes transhumanists the proletarians of gender….. or perhaps the lumpen

please tell me if this is silly or if i happened to misunderstand Cockshott

Anonymous 03-03-26 22:53:36 No.7079

i fucked up the edit on the third image because i'm retarded
swap trans and cis

Anonymous 03-03-26 23:10:46 No.7080

>>7078
>petty bourgeois class interests due to household income
what about having employees and control over the means of production?

also relevant:
https://artandlaborpodcast.com/podcast/208-the-trans-bourgeoisie/

Anonymous 03-03-26 23:37:44 No.7081

>>7080
yeah, like i said in the post, one of the criticisms to be made is that Cockshott uses income as a proxy for class (see Section 2.1 of his article). also note that members of the petty bourgeoisie (according to the standard definition) may or may sell their own labor / own means of production. i don't intend to critique the article in question however (as has already been done by more capable scholars), just to remark that its analysis extrapolates surprisingly well to phenomena Cockshott appears to be ignorant of

thanks for the link, i'll try to listen through that soon
torposting bc my vpn is banned

Anonymous 03-03-26 23:47:53 No.7082

>>7078
As a working class gay anon I'll admit that nearly of the petty bourgeois lgbtsqiaa2s+ anons in the world I've met were your run-of-the-mill, regular gay men.

I do think at level of Jungian or Reichian psychoanalysis can fill in the socio-cultural gaps that Cockshott leaves out. From my anecdotal account porky transhumanists are as likely to get cut off as prole transhumanists

Gay man os the easiest to pass as normie imo. Just the same as any other bachelor economically. Work, spend, die.

Anonymous 04-03-26 00:49:41 No.7085

Cockshott isn't worth taking seriously on this. He joined the Alba party instead of any socialist org.

That may seem benign if you're unfamiliar with Scottish politics but it's a damning indictment of his judgement. Alba is basically the Scottish national party (e.g. socdems) with only three policy differences

Soft climate change denial
Anti-transgenderism and a general social conservative vibe
Trying to rehabilitate the reputation of the disgraced Alex Salmond and undermine the SNP for prosecuting him for allegations of sex offences

Because nobody actually wanted that platform, Alba has never had a single elected representative (they all defected from other parties) and is currently deeply in debt, having spent as much money as the Scottish Greens at the last Scottish election (£200,000ish) where the Greens got 7 seats and they got none, while all their MPs/MSPs have either lost their seats or quit the party.

This is to point to the conclusion that he's starting with bigotry and then justifying it ex-post facto, which is the only model that can explain him joining Alba. No sensible analysis-lead approach would support doing that, even as a TERFy socdem Scottish nationalist.

Glownonymous 04-03-26 01:11:53 No.7086

File: 1772586712715.jpeg (95.28 KB, 1170x630, boymode-groyper-in-nick-f….jpeg)

Dickblast not being able to separate class from strata is a major L. Also
>lesbos tolerate trans folx better than transes themselves
Amusing

Tomdatinker 04-03-26 04:33:00 No.7087

>31% of Cis-Straight-Men don't like trans people compared to 18% of Cis-Straight-Women
Okay I was just scrolling the overboard and I just gotta stop to ask, Why are us cishetmoids so Transphobic? Like obviously Transphobia is just a reactionary distraction by the ruling class to divide the working class just like every other Phobia and Ism but wouldn't this apply to Women as well? Because 31 to 18 is a big gap so why are Cishetfoids less hateful than us Cishetmoids? What is the material explanation?

op 04-03-26 06:44:57 No.7090

>>7085
while agree that he's not worth taking seriously on transhumanists (if you read the article you'll see he doesn't even mention them) and whatever he calls the 'LGBT movement', his materialist explanation of the gender pay gap appears sound to me. In my opinion, even an ill-conceived analysis can be made use of by applying its redeemable parts.
>>7087
The one proposed by Cockshott (wage gap advantage => closer to 'propertied classes' in interests), or that cisheterosexual men benefit highly from the present patriarchal and heteronormative social order, which is why it is in their interest to preserve it and why their group norms/structures feed its preservation (pretty much the same as Cockshott, but not tied to one quantifiable metric),.

I also recognize that all of the phenomena I've spoken of can seemingly be explained with traditionally posited social factors (patriarchy, LGBT solidarity, transmisogyny etc.) and their interaction (or intersection, if you will…), but an explanation from income inequality has the benefit of (a) not requiring any of the additional sociological machinery, and (b) being grounded in a quantifiable and projectable metric.

op 04-03-26 07:20:01 No.7091

~~>>7088~~
~~>>7089~~
The scientific evidence suggests that such gender differences are not hormonal or somehow innate, but socially conditioned. To name a few arguments against such analyses: patriarchal social structures are not universal in human societies, women appear to engage in about as much social aggression as men but go about it differently (more indirectly), gender differences in aggression arise well before the onset of puberty and after the beginning of socialization.

I think we ought to recognize and dismantle the social conditioning that gives rise to these differences rather than acting and judging based off sentiment

Anonymous 04-03-26 12:51:49 No.7095

>>7078
>incur additional medical costs throughout their lives

wholly unnecessary costs
>sign up for a lifetime of surgeries and supplements
<complain about the costs

Anonymous 04-03-26 13:12:40 No.7097

>>7095
Estrogen is a cheap generic medication also given to menopausal cis women and most people simply can't afford surgery. The vast bulk of any additional medical expenses incurred are price gouging.

op 04-03-26 13:48:38 No.7098

>>7095
Where in this thread did you see such complaints? This is a discussion about economic reality. You considering some consumption 'unnecessary' and ascribing moral value to it is immaterial.

It seems that you read (or scrolled?) past the actual economic analysis to leave a reply expressing your personal distaste for transhumanists.

S 04-03-26 18:45:26 No.7099

>>7097
Surgery is extremely expensive and necessary for transitioning adults. This is unironically a reason I think trans people are tied to socialism, because most of us won't be able to get all the surgeries we need. A peasant can get oestrogen but she will never be able to get surgery. The question is if the socialism that trans are pushed towards is proletarian or bourgeois.

Anonymous 04-03-26 20:20:29 No.7100

What kind of OP is this?
This seems completely irrelevant

op 04-03-26 21:31:29 No.7104

believe it or not, minorities exist, have their own interests, and take up positions within the class struggle depending on the economic basis of their existence. if you have issues with Cockshott's analysis, you can read the article and voice them – i do too. gender antagonism is a class antagonism, this is only extrapolating the analysis of man-woman gender antagonism to encompass other sexual groups as well

are you upset that there is a post about lgbt people on the /lgbt/ board?

Cassandra Nova 05-03-26 00:58:36 No.7105

>>7078
Yet another graphic proving I am completely right

Glowing Cassandra Nova 08-03-26 17:22:51 No.7194

>>7087
It's probably genetical

Hetmoids can't help themselves but being hateful bigoted antisocial violent subhumans, hetmoids aren't only the most transphobic but also homophobic, racist, xenophobic and any vile antisocial belief you can hold really

It's probably something to do with lack of prefrontal cortex development, hetmoids shift closer to reptilian brain than mammal ones, I'd dare to say over 80% of hetero males are functional sociopaths

Prof. Palinka 10-03-26 16:21:45 No.7244

>>7194
Problem? 90% of all men are hetmoids!

Unique IPs: 18