/lgbt/ - LGBT

haha xd programmers be like le thigh highs and le trans amirite reddit? LOL femboys anime fallout new vegas LMAO

>Every transwoman I've ever met
this is code for "i checked some profiles on x dot com (formerly twitter)"

>>7490
Also the transwomen posters here vs. the cis gay ones.

>Every transwoman I've ever met is into the most masculine and male-coded interests out there.
WoT is the most girly game in the world :3

guns are literally the only masc interest i have uygha

The shit about hobbies is just misogyny. The reason a lot of hobbies are 'male coded' is because sexism in those hobbies and patriarchal standards of femininity keep women out. You're reinforcing this. As for 'unfeminine demeanor', this is just vibes and you being transphobic. This isn't really true for most trans people IRL.

>>7489
<(1/3)

1. Because it's acceptable for effeminate (!) cis gay man to be inundated into female social circles and thus socialized to that effect, the same is true for trans women who grow up as effeminate (!) men or boys. Their interests will reflect a general societal prescription on what counts as a female hobby because they are around people who are subjugated by this limitation. None of these hobbies, however, are feminine in themselves. None of these hobbies you mention require a cock to be engaged with, and you will certainly find some cis women and effeminate homosexuals who are fans of all of the things you mentioned. I say this not to dismiss your assertion on this account, but to establish something I will talk about later.


   
   

1a. Choices of leisure time are not intrinsically related to natal sex in the same way that general behavior might be. There is a good case here for a “tradition of dead generations”.

2a. A strong correlation hasn’t been found between cross-sex behaviour in early childhood and transsexuality, and trans women themselves make up a minority of those in whom this behaviour is found (Graham, Philip. “Transgender children and young people”)

2b. Cross-sex behaviour in early childhood does appear to be associated strongly with adult homosexuality, at least in industrialized nations, but it isn’t exactly consensus whether the “average gay man” is as effeminate as you claim (Bailey and Zucker. Childhood Sex-Typed Behavior). Studies of effeminate behaviour in adult homosexuals are fairly conflicting. You can go as high as ~89% from Bailey and Zucker’s ’95 report on randomly sampled gay men in the US, or ~33% in a study of 1123 Brazilian homosexuals by Ramos et al. Regardless, even if the rate is disputed, it is true that people who are homosexual have higher rates of cross-sex behaviour than heterosexuals do.

2c. Trans women are not collectively an analogue or derivative of gay men, and include both androphilic and gynephilic individuals. Because trans women are natally male, their sexuality reflects the general sexual preferences of their assigned gender. Trans women are mostly gynephilic, and trans men are mostly androphilic, and one might expect the the inverse to be true in a rate similar to cis homosexuals (Graham, Philip. Ibid.) 


2d. Because trans women are not analogous to gay men, and because cross-sex behaviour has a strong correlation to sexuality, it’s a bit banal to say trans women are less effeminate in general than gay men. A mass of people who are mostly gynephilic in an equivalent proportion to cisgender men will inevitably be. (I might add, at least for now!). I’m not so sure, however, that it can be said that homosexuals are *on average* more effeminate than transsexuals. Because…



2e. … Femininity in men, as opposed to masculinity in women, is an extremely strong phenotypic indicator of homosexuality, it is more likely that any gay man you knowingly come across or see in media will be feminine, while masculine homosexuals fly under the radar.

>>7504
<(2/2)

<But why is this the case? And let’s be charitable and forget about the average gay man thing.
>Why are trans women so often not feminine and not into feminine hobbies?



3b. I’d say the simplest answer is that they may be very much feminine and into traditionally feminine hobbies – in fact, near everyone is into interests overrepresented by one sex or another (read 3e) – but that it’s discounted on account of the fact that the people in question are not ones you personally find particularly attractive or phenotypically feminine. But let’s set this aside for now.



3c. Appearance and behaviour is phenotypic, and plays a strong role in forming social groups. In selecting for friendship, people will generally seek out those who are similar in appearance, demeanour, and interest, and attractiveness. One’s closest social circles are most likely to include or be exclusively members of one’s natal sex for most people.



3d. Both of the major social sexes have a prudential concern not to let outsiders into their gendered social circles unless they meet the conditions to be an outlier. As such, homosexual men are sometimes accepted into close female social circles because they share some phenotypic qualities. A trans woman who is passing, effeminate, and heterosexual would naturally fit into such a group. A trans woman who is passing, effeminate, and homosexual might most likely also be accepted into such a group, whereas her less phneotypically effeminate counterpart might not be. 


3e. Vocational interests and hobbies are often distinguished by expressivity and instrumentality. The former is related to sociality and people, the latter to goal attainment and things. Women are expectedly overrepresented in the former, men in the latter. It’s debated whether this is by account of intrinsic differences of sex, and I expect that not to be the case. It’s noted that cis womens’ interests in traditionally feminine hobbies are negatively correlated to time spent with her female peers at a young age, and that her interest in traditionally masculine hobbies increases when spending time with a cohort of peers of both sexes. (McHale et al. Development of Gendered Interests)



3f. Because androphiles are more likely to be effeminate in childhood, and because effeminacy is a phenotypic quality that is ruthlessly policed out of male social circles, I expect that they are more likely to be adopted into female social groups earlier in life. The same must also hold true for effeminate gynephiles, and anecdotally, some trans women I personally know come to mind.



3g. Because women have a greater tendency to be drawn to interests related to sociality, it means that natally male transplants in their close social circles may be more often incorporated into group activities, and more likely to have their effeminacy enforced. This would hold true for both androphiles and gynephiles.



3h. Trans women who are denied access to these social groups on account of their phenotypic qualities will have gained less of a knack of social convention and they are left, in their stead, to be drawn to more instrumental vocations and hobbies. Moreover, a specific kind of behaviour would not be enforced by their female peers because no such peers would exist to enforce it.

>>7505
<(3/3)

I’m going to be a little less charitable here in this picture of your question

>Why are transbians such behaviourhons, why can’t they be into le pink and le painting flowers



4a. My assumption is that gynephilic trans women may simply be unwanted in female social circles at midshit ages (I’m speaking 16-18) because of overt phenotypic differences, and may be unwanted at youngshit ages or passing because of fears of predation. Unfortunate generalization maybe, and perhaps purely speculation – there isn’t much data on this unfortunately – but I think some concept of “group exclusion therefore lack of behavioural enforcement” makes sense. 


4b. Why can’t trans women be into “Guns, mechas, engineering, combat sports”? Why must we ghettoize our interests and indulge in vain self-denial and artifice to try and convince ourselves that there’s some kind of woman organ, a cluster of girl neurons, a female soul hiding somewhere in our brain? Why must we contribute to the many millennia long project of sexually ghettoizing humanity?



Men and women should be encouraged to participate in all the interests dominated by either and it should be the role of any project of emancipation to reduce whatever potential behavioural differences exist, that are posed by natal sex, to a rational minimum.



Stop falling for idpol. In the positivist reddit soy Engelsian-matriarchy communist utopia of the future, every member of society, whether she is male or female, will be capital M, Men, and we will be all the better for it. 


>>7506
fucked up a bit in formatting my overly saccharine effort slop but oh well

>>7506
>4b. Why can’t trans women be into “Guns, mechas, engineering, combat sports”? Why must we ghettoize our interests and indulge in vain self-denial and artifice to try and convince ourselves that there’s some kind of woman organ, a cluster of girl neurons, a female soul hiding somewhere in our brain? Why must we contribute to the many millennia long project of sexually ghettoizing humanity?



>Men and women should be encouraged to participate in all the interests dominated by either and it should be the role of any project of emancipation to reduce whatever potential behavioural differences exist, that are posed by natal sex, to a rational minimum.
Based

>>7506
This is literally the wisest quote I've seen so far on Leftypol

It's tgirls acting cute and rapeable so that they can fucking feel feminine or whatever because society says that and we live in a society batman

>>7504
>None of these hobbies you mention require a cock to be engaged with
The only real male hobby is hawg crankin.

>>7551
True. My dad's a boomer working in sales and he says there are three topics he can talk about with any one of his customers: Sports, women and cars

>>7551
hog status??

I dont blame them. Most of the hobbies that society has arbituarily deemed to be for women are the most boring hobbies imaginable. Knitting and baking is lame as shit. Im sure far more cis women would be into guns, mechs, and combat sports if it was societally acceptable for them to do so

>>7567
>baking
I've known women who were into baking and tried to make new things every week or so, but learning a few basic recipes and making a cake or some cookies once in a while is pretty great too. I don't believe anyone would genuinely dislike making food, when usually you also get to eat it.

>>7489
Feminity is spook and so are transgenders. Transgenders arent real. They are a capitalist pathololgy like so called "personality" and "individual". Also, transphobia and transmisogyny are not real.

>Anyone ever notice how unfeminine
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-reaffirm-famed-ancient-viking-warrior-was-biologically-female-180971541/

>>7506
>Why must we ghettoize our interests
using the nazi genocide segregation term to talk about being forced to play with pink colored toys is crazy wtf
>some kind of woman organ, a cluster of girl neurons, a female soul hiding somewhere in our brain
A liberal reductionist view of SOCIAL RELATIONS. Marxian sociology is focused on revealing the historical political economy which forms the material base, underneath the idealist superstructure of gender ideologies of "culture" (a German word that describes plants btw). Our socialization is in response to economic needs and desires for survival, and to thrive once our basic needs are met:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_axe#Analysis
>A hand axe is a prehistoric stone tool with two faces that is the longest-used tool in human history
<The hand axe helped establish that early humans were capable of constructing relatively sophisticated tools that also reflected a sense of aesthetics.
and the unnamed female version probably found somewhere in here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_work
Liberals attribute things like "wanting to cook or make medicine" or "wanting to build tools" to organs and eugenicist bio-determinism, ignoring our evolutionary need for healthcare or labor saving devices and our socially reinforced need to reach for more abstract desires. Its no wonder Harry Potter is TERF slop, they think the need for ease and comfort through our willpower is found in genetics, and not dialectical struggle.
>positivist reddit soy Engelsian-matriarchy communist utopia
riiight, ok /u/GhislaineMaxwell

>>7489
Honestly glowanon, it's for a couple of reasons.
I think a big part of is that gay kids tend to "realize" it at an earlier age so avoid boy-activities more than trans girls may have. Most of the transgirls I've met are exclusively t4t and they didn't even go through an "I'm just gay phase"
A lot of tgirls are just more into the "body" in general and that makes them more interested in sports and using their bodies in functional ways. Gay men that are fit tend to do so for the look and the rest of us hate our bodies (the adonis factor)

>>7504
beat me to it with a bunch of sciencey words

ywnbaw

>>7611

legitimate question, why do mods keep you around? i can't post some memes because they're "racist" but you just go around being an overall subhuman and posting gore and are free to go.

>>7612

hell, a lot of us think you're not even old enough to be here.

>>7506
gigabasado

>>7612
>>7614
it's because of LOG (Leftypol-Occupying Glowies)

>>7612
Mods need to bring back Glowing rapefiend! no srsly, cool it with the glowanon bashing

>>7489
Trans culture is pretty different from LGBT culture at large. It’s feminine in its own way, I think.

>>7623

why

>>7612
Because mods are transphobic.

>>7649

internalized? or normal?

Isn't it also more common for Trans Women to be bisexual too than cis women? Statistically speaking 18.9% of Trans Women are bisexual compared to 5% of Women as a whole, and from my personal every Trans Women I know is bi and two of them are literally dating each other.

>>7489
Every fucking normalfag meme on the vein of OP's feels like this.

>>7506
>4b. Why can’t trans women be into “Guns, mechas, engineering, combat sports”? Why must we ghettoize our interests and indulge in vain self-denial and artifice to try and convince ourselves that there’s some kind of woman organ, a cluster of girl neurons, a female soul hiding somewhere in our brain? Why must we contribute to the many millennia long project of sexually ghettoizing humanity?



Everyone intuits another person's gender with social markers. If you want to destroy gender o algo, why transition?

>>7573
>https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-reaffirm-famed-ancient-viking-warrior-was-biologically-female-180971541/

We wuz vikings and shit

>A liberal reductionist view of SOCIAL RELATIONS. Marxian sociology is focused on revealing the historical political economy which forms the material base, underneath the idealist superstructure of gender ideologies of "culture" (a German word that describes plants btw). Our socialization is in response to economic needs and desires for survival, and to thrive once our basic needs are met

Capital breaks down culture and social conditions. Holy fucking shit you progressoids are actual bourgeois shills larping as Marxists.

boys will be boys

>>7571
based gender abolitionist?!

cissoids when cis woman does male-dominated hobby/jobs:
>oh my god she's such a brave woman for standing her ground in a male-dominated environment i wish her the best we need to highlight her and tell everyone how great of a WOMAN she is for doing this all on her own
>let's literally build a statue for her she's one of the only few women doing this if not the first ever!! so brave!
>i literally want to marry her she has the same interests as me i want a [insert thing here]-girl as a wife and i want to fuck her and talk to her about [insert thing here] all day long
cissoids when trans woman does male-dominated hobby/job:
>she's literally a man he has manly man interests and a penis and she is a man
>real women suck my cock instead of having such manly hobbies and she won't ever suck my cock because he is ugly and i am not gay totally no not gay i would never fuck a transhumanist
meanwhile at trans womans workplace:
>ladies and gentlemen…
>no wait we don't have any ladies around
>gentlemen, welcome to this manly group of manly men where we meet to talk about this man thing.
>man, we have such a low womens quota.
<iwnbaw iwnbaw iwnbaw i want to kms

literally what do cissoid women have to deal with in a fucking "male-dominated" job/hobby except men being weird and wanting to fuck them? why is it played up as such a great achievement by leftlibs and feminists?
why the fuck are there prizes? you literally get free trophies in local chess tournaments as a woman because there just aren't that many around and women either have a seperate leaderboard or the best woman just gets a trophy for being the best woman? i know a cis woman that stopped playing chess when she was a child because she just wasn't interested in the game anymore, she keeps on joining tournaments to this day just to claim her free prize and make people think she's such a great chess player. she finds this whole thing so absurd.

do you think trans women don't get sexualized?
do you think trans women don't get harassed?
do you think trans women get taken seriously at all?

>>8316
>cissoids when cis woman does male-dominated hobby/jobs
the concept of pickme is a thing though

>>8316
trvke

>>7559
Cranked

>>7489
when you stop seeing being trans as simply being about gender none of this persists as a problem. i would much rather mtfs have interests in stem as there are many high paying and constructive jobs in that area that could be used to help build a trans-national movement. this tendency to dismiss such skills as "malebrained" has been a disaster for transsexual people. any cultural renaissance should make sure to work against all such prejudices. we should also be much more skeptical of any attempt to celebrate things like prostitution or other general lumpen activities on the basis of seeing such depths of material and spiritual destitution as somehow more "valid". we should always remember that the reason why many hsts go into prostitution has nothing to do w them being "fembrained" but rather the structural cancellation of their future

autistic transbians with concrete skills should be held in higher regard with respect to their productive virtues. with that said, i don't like the "programming socks" culture because it expresses the social reality of many mtfs going into stem in a very superficial and overly ironic fashion. id prefer something like nyx land's gender accelerationist mythologization in contrast, which already gestures us towards recognizing important energetic and physiological realities. speaking of which, it should be underlined that the reason so many trans people adopt such interests goes well beyond natal sex, and this is another instance in which gender ideology serves as a means to dissimulate transsexual reality. there are two major factors over and above sex and gender that are at play with regards to this phenomenon:
<1) the propensity of trans people (both mtf and ftm) towards high functioning autism. this leads to systematizing strategy as a compensatory strategy for the autist's frequent failure to filter out excessive local information. with such a strategy, certain fields and professions, especially those in stem, become more preferable than others. note that a correspondent of mine has highlighted the fact that "gender" dysphoria could involve prediction errors generated by non-congruent bodily schema. one the one hand, this may interact with the autist's inability to efficiently signal certain signals, making them less able to filter out such sexual prediction errors in contrast to neurotypicals. on the other hand, perhaps systematizing may serve as a compensatory mechanism for dealing with such dissonances in general
<2) the fact that the transsexual condition, insofar as transitioning involves a movement out of the body's usual homeostatic mechanisms, is intrinsically a movement towards death. this lack of risk-aversion is important for stem fields which require much more independent tinkering compared to other professions. indeed one of the reasons for the gender gap in computer science may be due to differences in the degree the different genders tend to engage in tinkering https://www.cs.ubc.ca/~meghana/resources/sigcse_2015_krieger.pdf. this may well be due to culturally conditioned factors. a brief glance of the literature would seem to indicate that testosterone plays no role in risk-aversion. at any rate what i am highlighting here is a difference in existential predicament faced by transsexuals compared to the rest of the population

ive wanted to try and develop a bit of a cultural vanguard force for setting things straight but it would be a difficult endeavour. we need to both reform assimilationists who hate on transbian phenotypes under the pretence that wide cultural acceptance is something that is probable or particularly desirable given our current mode of production as well as the reddit babytrans culture which is largely controlled by totalistic upvote-downvote signals pressed by the lowest common denominator (making it difficult to push something particularly new or subtle). i think the former might be easier to reach first given the spaces they use. the latter might have to be reached materially, uniting the various communes spread throughout the americas under a general inclusive principle following the mythos of fleshcraft

look up "autogynephilia"

mechas are queer actually and not really macho.

>adopt feminine hobbies
<u r cosplaying as a wahman
>adopt masculine hobbies
<ugh, so unfeminine
We live in a society

Is fixing my socks by sewing on scraps of other worn through socks fembrained?

>>8354
>"gender" dysphoria could involve prediction errors generated by non-congruent bodily schema
>this may interact with the autist's inability to efficiently signal certain signals, making them less able to filter out such sexual prediction errors in contrast to neurotypicals
I've had a similar thought years ago. Gender is nothing more than social programming for the sexes, therefore transhumanists differentiate by picking up the wrong signals, even moreso in the age of mass media.

>>7489
This thread just made me think that we should abolish gender and just go back to sex differentiation only because what is or isn't feminine is subjective af

A lot of the cis lesbians I know have "masculine" interests, even some straight cis women. You're just a misogynist

> muh feminine and masculine demeanours and hobbies
> le girls cant be into guns and mechas and blah blah
you can go where they still sell off 14 year old girls into marriage if youre this triggered by conventional gender roles being ignored

based on my appearance and interests, do i qualify as one of these hyper-masculine, male-coded trans women? im sorry if this post is deemed attention seeking, but ive noticed the prevalence of this genre of person. i dont think video games, anime, or computer science is the issue. i truly believe that the culprit for the insufferable nature of this kind of person is their clothing style: thigh-highs, science fiction t-shirts, and presenting with a femboy aesthetic in general. i think 60% of passing is just dressing like a normal person.

i havent read the entire thread yet, but i think another issue is hyper sexuality. using terms like "gock" so recklessly is graphic and gross, and it obviously inhibits passing. the worse part is that it gives conservatives and right wingers in general ammunition against trans people as disturbed perverts and nymphomaniac gooners.

to be fair, i think this confused, terminally online femboy that is transgender in name only demographic only exists on twitter, discord, and image boards, but in those specific communities, they are rampant.

anyways, despite my judgment of them, do i fall into the aforementioned demographic? i like to garden. read theory, and write. i used to play video games (before i transitioned), but i havent done so at all in the past 5 years. the only anime ive ever watched is sailor moon, when i was like 12 or so.

Your self-loathing will cannibalize you.

>>8416
You look like a woman. Your fashion sense or interests do not affect your passability in the slightest, everybody who looks at you is going to see a woman no matter what.

>>8416 Hey, I actually really appreciated how honest and self-reflective your post was. A lot of people just vent about that 'terminally online femboy-trans' stereotype without owning any of their own tastes, but you laid out your actual hobbies pretty clearly.
From what you described — gardening, reading theory, writing, Sailor Moon as a kid, and dropping video games years ago — you honestly don't sound like you fit that hyper online, thigh-highs + sci-fi shirt + constant hornyposting archetype at all. You seem more grounded and introspective than the Discord/twitter noise you were describing.
I agree with you that clothing choices and oversharing the hypersexual stuff do a lot of damage to how people perceive the broader group. 'Passing' (socially, at least) is heavily influenced by just blending in like a normal woman instead of leaning into the obvious male-brained nerd/fetish aesthetic.
Curious though — what kind of theory do you like reading these days? And what sort of writing do you do? Philosophy/politics stuff, fiction, essays?mind if we continue on Discord? Disc is Maxilosaurus

Is being into metal and punk considered male brained?

>>8424
No. Fuck hell no. Men have no hobbies and interests others than porn and video games. If they do those are not men but trccns. Even so, there are trccn coded games like

>>8364
Tsmt. Mecha and gundams are trccn hobbies

>>8424
dont give a fuck about what gender should be doing what, its a mind opp promoted by liberals who need in groups and out groups.

just do what feels right and looks fun, let the haters sniff your farts as you breeze past.