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/lgbt/ - LGBT

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>I’m transitioning/I transitioned in order to treat my Gender Dysphoria, which is a concrete and discrete mental condition that can be empirically verified and not at all a fictitious mental illness invented by cissexist doctors in the 1970s in order to pathologize transsexuality and restrict access to sex change procedures
>I’m neurologically intersex, which is a concrete and discrete neurological state that can be empirically verified, which I claim to be despite never having had my brain imaged, and which for some reason means that I have to take cross-sex hormones
When are transsexuals gonna stop inventing pseudo-scientific justifications for transitioning and instead admit that they transition simply because they want to?

= Sources =
>Gender Dysphoria is a fictitious mental illness invented by cissexist doctors in the 1970s in order to pathologize transsexuality and restrict access to sex change procedures
Julia Serano, “Pathological Science: Debunking Sexological and Sociological Models of Transgenderism”, in Whipping Girl, pp. 115–160
https://archive.is/20230320121520/https://transwrites.world/have-we-got-it-wrong-on-dysphoria-abigail-thorn-discusses-trans-healthcare/
https://blog.apaonline.org/2023/07/26/gender-dysphoria-and-why-wanting-is-enough/
>Claims that transsexuals are “neurologically intersex” are pseudo-scientific
https://youtu.be/ZymYiwoRoC0, 48:28–54:00
= Further reading =
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/opinion/sunday/vaginoplasty-transgender-medicine.html. Archived at https://archive.is/20260303044922/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/opinion/sunday/vaginoplasty-transgender-medicine.html
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/freedom-of-sex-a-liberal-response.html. Archived at https://archive.is/20240317212124/https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/freedom-of-sex-a-liberal-response.html

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>>8772
you're doing this but for the socially constructed nature of illness instead of gender roles.

>>8774
I haven’t made any prescriptive statements at all. Your reading comprehension could use some work.
To be clear, I endorse transsexuals’ freedom to transition. (One would think that my linking of ALC’s essays on this would make it clear, but then one would be naïf for expecting people on the internet to, y’know, read.) I just wish that they would be honest about why they do it.

The whole issue is sidestepped if we stopped thinking like fascists and embraced the right for people to freely express themselves on the libertarian principle, it doesn't hurt anyone to call and present themselves women, going into women's toilets doesn't automatically make you a rapist or pervert, it literally doesn't matter if you think trans are real women or not

>>8776
Exactly! This is my view also.

>>8775
my point is that your approach itself is flawed. the basic behavioral pattern is a general part of the human condition and particularly generalizable to many mental health/developmental conditions in particular. because of that, it is your singling out of transsexuals that raises the analogy to the image, not the "btw i'm obviously transphobic" part at the very end.

most people are not honest about most of the things they do. indeed, most people are not so much dishonest about their feelings and actions as they are completely ignorant of them, desperately grasping for the narrative that best explains why they feel the way they do.

just as it is manifestly unreasonable to expect transgender people to dismantle gender roles all by themselves, it is unreasonable to put any particular responsibility on them for living "honestly" (or, if you accept my framing, "awarely" or "consciously") above and beyond that applied to everyone else.

>>8776
while i would generally endorse the libertarian principle you run into problems when it comes to, say, public healthcare providers. you either have to accept that they'll stop covering the practical/medical elements of transitioning, or get quite utopian about the sorts of things the state will pay for you to have done just because you want it to happen.

which is also true, incidentally, for neurodivergence in general. for all the flaws of the current medicalization fetish, there exists a world where attempts to prevent it successfully strip away useful interventions while leaving the basic "dishonest" or "ignorant" structure in place.

>>8778
>"btw i'm obviously transphobic" part at the very end.
What?
>while i would generally endorse the libertarian principle you run into problems when it comes to, say, public healthcare providers. you either have to accept that they'll stop covering the practical/medical elements of transitioning, or get quite utopian about the sorts of things the state will pay for you to have done just because you want it to happen.
Serano briefly discusses this at the end of the essay I’ve referenced in >>8773.

>>8779
>"btw i'm obviously transphobic" part at the very end.
i refer there to the image in >>8774
e.g. i was analogizing your point to the "it's totally your responsibility as a trans woman to deconstruct gender roles" part, not the "trans women shouldn't transition!!! it's for feminism and not because i hate transhumanists" part.

as concerns the discussion in the essay you mention, it explicitly mentions how a cis woman can (theoretically - not really in practice) get breast augmentation by showing "significant psychological distress", which i would argue underscores my point even if she faces (again - theoretically) less gatekeeping. why focus on the transsexual's "pseudo-scientific" endorsement of the diagnosis of gender dysphoria, but stay quiet on the cis woman playing basically the same game?

i don't mean to sound so demanding when i pose the question again. i am not trying to "win" an argument. as it happens, in reading i was hit by a strangely clear vision of a world in which the "because i want to" narrative wins out, but the status quo mostly endures: you'd just move gender dysphoria from a classification like "Gender Dysphoria" or "Gender Incongruence" to a note more like "Z41.1 - Encounter for Cosmetic Surgery", which the healthcare bureaucracies of the world would just roll with as normal. (we can assume here this could eliminate the basically pointless GIC gatekeeping and ease access to private care, but the UK would continue to ration care with general practitioners and waiting lists because that's how the NHS functions at its core.)

>>8780
Wrong essay.

Idealistic uyghur, read PubMed

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>>8776
Great! Now we're considered a degenerate idpol invented by Jews to destroy white civilization, not mentally ill people who deserve sympathy.
All these memes about "I identify as an attack helicopter" and the like are YOUR fault.

>>8786
that poll is the result of the british press and establishment completely and utterly losing their minds and launching an all-channels hate campaign, not anything trans people actually did. you might as well show a chart showing the number of people who think jeremy corbyn is an antisemite.

>>8784
Which article(s) on PubMed might I read that would convince me that
>Gender Dysphoria is a concrete and discrete condition that can be empirically verified and not at all a fictitious mental illness invented by cissexist doctors in the 1970s in order to pathologize transsexuality and restrict access to sex change procedures
>“Neurologically intersex” refers to a concrete and discrete neurological state that can be empirically verified, and also that people can discover that they are through introspection alone
?

>>8789
you could play this game with basically all mental illnesses and, indeed, with "sex" itself. the very concept of "intersex" is a holding category for awkward edge-cases made up by cissexist doctors.

>>8789
If you don't want to just Google it and open the "images" tab, then I can't help you.

File: 1779968512216.jpeg (127.66 KB, 1080x878, IMG_8938.jpeg)

>>8788
Yeah, so the degenerates for whom being trans means changing your pronouns to (oy/they) on Twitter haven't harmed transsexuals in any way and haven't turned transsexuality into a degenerate idpol subculture of porn-addicted emo-goths in the eyes of normies?

>>8772
>>8776
IMO the real contradiction here is the separation of the workers from the means of production which makes capitalism fundamentally incompatible with cyborgs and transhumanism.

>>8793
this is the common mistake of people in a niche community imagining that normies can distinguish their particular weirdoes from one another. "if it wasn't for those DEGENERATE furries, normies would love us!" - yeah, good luck with that. **furries have only gotten more "degenerate" and yet, their social position has actually upticked quite a lot since the 2010s.*

"muh neopronouns trenders" aren't even the right niche, either. if you look at the insane people who make up TERFism, they've picked up on the existence of autogynephiles and use that term as a slur, they have almost nothing to say about theyfabs. and they're obsessive transhumanist watchers!

p.s. "normies" don't really exist anymore. the mindset that there's a big set of "normal people" out there making these judgements is the same fallacy that centrists make when they decide to eat shit and lose to the right. society is polarized between several groups of complete freaks. anti-trans views correlate with basically every other kind of reactionary view (which are themselves correlated with: being old, being poorly educated, and being male - except in britain.), which is not what you would find if there was a big crowd of reasonable, moderate people who were fine with transsexualism but draw the line at pronouns with an "x" in them.


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