/lgbt/ - LGBT

I think they kinda rushed the ending & still left many questions unanswered in mind.
Like abstracting (i guess its a 'symbolic' suicide) ,which is just accepted as a permanent state, is never really thought on by any characters if it can be reverted or cured in a way, and so on.
What really did happen between the blue AI and Caine, we also still do not know the motives of Kinger & Stratch..

Lastly, I do wonder if they can really continue "living with joy" as they show us at the end when their spent time converges to infinity. It also seems that the abstracted are in constant cycle of suffering, Jax, Ribbit & other ones will continue to suffer.

>>9156
>her
did we watch the same episode? where do they ever refer to Jax as a she?

>>9156
beautiful lady😍🥰s caring about snca (SHOCKING)

>>9179
>beautiful lady
what if im referring to a trans guy?
not quite woke are you leftypol…

>>9170
it was pretty obviously implied and goose confirmed it later for all the people still too dumb to get it

>>9181
that just a bunch of out-of-text cope

wish they would be able to make another one, feels like the whole thing could easily get a season two.

Also, is Dobby the dog alive now but also isolated? aint that kinda fucked up?

>>9183
Actually that's only one out-of-text point. It is still very explicit in the episode.

>>9185
the only thing you that supports your case is the choice of music in one scene, which I thought was weird and presumably applies to Pomni because Jax is a boy and is referred to as such throughout the entire damn show. unless you want to suggest being emotionally stunted is an inherently female trait

>>9156
This ending sucked, it went from a 10/10 show to cringe/10

>>9186
What is your alternative explanation for what Jax meant by his "secret he told his mom", and she made a joke out of it but then ended up trying to comfort him, and then Ribbit puts a girl ribbon on his ear. Like what's the alternate theory here.

>>9186
That wouldn't really work applied to Pomni because of the "she is just one minute old" line song, implying the "she" in this context is new.
>>9189
Plus the pretty blunt I Saw The TV Glow reference with the lamp.

Havent watched the finale but it seems its about Jax so Im not interested. I only care about Pomni tbh

>>9191
She's involved, sharing a good chunk of the screen time.

>>9192
But as a supporting character Im assuming, since the character arc is about Jax, no?

>>9193
Yeah, though a primary supporting character, if that makes sense.

Unironically salty that they made Jax trans. Another prime femboy twink taken by the trans hivemind.

>>9189
>secret he told his mom
it could be literally anything. him being a poorfag and his mom being a porky? let's look at what the text says
>distant, later absent father
>Jax aspires to be as much of a man as his father
>when he fails he copes by being violent
>abused by his mother because she couldn't cope with the breakup (women, am I right fellas?)
now in the trans theory's defense, being poor isn't some deep personal thing. but we could easily take some other taboo thing. what if Jax is a zoophile? ooh yeah, he has a frog fetish! that fits so well. or a herpophile in general. he could also be a diaperfag. or literally anything, as already stated
>Ribbit puts a girl ribbon on his ear
women have never put a "he's mine" marker on you before? she clearly wants his BHC
also given the source material, I really expected Jax to suffer a fate similar to Ted's

>>9198
Didn't the creator confirm that she's trans?

>>9198
Still doesn't explain the Isn't She Lovely by Stevie Wonder. Like any generic romance song could've been sufficient if they were going for that.

>>9200
I feel like this sorta thing shows a flaw in death of the author. Like even if Goose had decided not to explicitly confirm it, the logistics of production itself is implying canon somewhat here. The author isn't the sole source of out-of-text canon, and weather this is even out-of-text is muddy.

Like a more air-tight version of death of the author would be "death of all meta-text and context of production."

>zoophile, frog fetish, herpophile, diaperfag, etc…
How would any of those serve toward halting her mom's comparisons of her to her father?

>>9189
>and then Ribbit puts a girl ribbon on his ear.
Erm, it's actually a bowtie.
But like, I am a male, but I believe many males would be embarrassed or would got nervous if theyre forced to wear what they'd classify as female attire (I guess a state of social conscinousness gives the outfit the quality wherein once it had none), like a maid outfit w makeup. Especially when it is by someone Jax seemingly holds very dear, I think Jax might just get blushed as well if Ribbit was headpatting him instead of putting the bowtie.

Honestly, I kinda do not care if Jax desired to be in a female body, regardless of whatever it is, the guy just abstracted and probably suffering, lost in a sheer magnitude thoughts of eternally being subjected to be apart from Ribbit and never getting to apologize.

>>9199
we're discussing the text, anon

>>9200
>Still doesn't explain the Isn't She Lovely by Stevie Wonder
yeah that's the one big discrepancy. it felt extremely out of place when I first watched the episode. like "is this referring to Pomni? why is Jax on screen?". so the writing is bad I guess. or you could call me media illiterate, but see below

the problem is that all we can see about these characters is what they look and sound like. like all chaste media, the characters are sexless. therefore there is no tension between sex and gender. it's all gender. doubly so for TADC because even in-universe the characters are sexless. you couldn't put a finer point on the issue than Ribbit putting a literal bow on Jax, turning a "he" into a "she". gender is revealed to be wholly metaphysical

there is media that does transness far better. Technobabylon for example, an adventure game in a biopunk setting, reveals quite late in the game, in a throwaway manner, that one of its main characters is trans. the other character in the scene remarks that "the gengineers did a good job" on them. this has to be pointed out explicitly, because without doing so said character is just cis. doubly so in a setting where changing a person's sex is trivial compared to say splicing human and tree DNA, which is a major plot point in the story

>>9205
>yeah that's the one big discrepancy. it felt extremely out of place when I first watched the episode. like "is this referring to Pomni? why is Jax on screen?". so the writing is bad I guess. or you could call me media illiterate
Well it's load bearing. Like the fact that it doesn't make sense to interpret it as referring to Pomni is the point.
>metaphysical
I mean psychology isn't metaphysical, but yeah they are all effectively just AIs like Caine due to being brain scans.
If they do green light a season 2 I wonder if they'll explore how their sexlessness plays into this.
>Technobabylon
Looks interesting, I'll check it out.

Gotta say it's pretty wild (and possibly a little disturbing) how the moment it's revealed Jax is trans everybody immediately forgets and forgives what a giant piece of shit she was throughout the entire show. I get the point is that this behaviour was a manifestation of their repressed gender dysphoria and associated trauma, but most people would agree that this doesn't excuse shitty, cruel, abusive behaviour.

>>9225
such blatant transphobia mods ban xim

>>9225
To be fair fans were already being soft on Jax pre-reveal.

>>9225
It's a fictional character dawg
>oh my god why are people so soft on walter white

>>9225
Doesn't mean she should die dumbass.

Anyways, saw this comic, honestly truke, fuck Gooseworx, transphobic cunt

>>9200
>It's not because they're money hungry, they just want to achieve something really special

Uhuh, sure bitch, I'm sure your job acting as an intellectual property middleman isn't about money either

>idk does anyone else feel like making jax a repressoid then immediately killing her is kind of fucked up?

I'm not Trans or queer so debate this amongst yourselves but isn't it also fucked up for a Cisgender man to voice a Trans Woman? Im not criticizing Michael Kovach because I genuinely dont know the answer but I originally didn't believe Jax was Trans until Gooseworx made that one Bluesky post because of this. I always assumed that a Cisgender person voicing a Transgender person was no different from a White person voicing a Black person, am I right or wrong because I dont really know?

>>9236
you don't have to sound trans to be trans

all the Fans(tm) mad that they didnt waste more time on secondary or even tertiary(!) characters is so funny

>>9163
>they didnt explain every single aspect le lore!!!!!!!!!
lol

>What really did happen between the blue AI and Caine
did you watch the show with your eyes closed you fucking tard

>>9186
>>9201
>>9201
>im too retarded to pick up on obvious context clues
>im going to pretend the intention of the author with her own fucking work is irrelevant because uhhh ermmmm le death of le author!!
cinemasins, tvtropes and fandom culture have been an absolute blight on art

>>9200 (me)
>>9201 (me)
>>9239
You have vastly misread why I even bring up death of the author in the first place. I'm saying it's death of the author is not only a dumb analysis cliche, but also doesn't even work when taken seriously because of how media is made.

>>9234
She didn't even die tho, like it's likely that the only thing that stopped her from de-abstracting was the flash bangs, and even in her abstacted form she's clearly still sentient. She's probably going to get de-abstracted in season 2.

>>9236
>I always assumed that a Cisgender person voicing a Transgender person was no different from a White person voicing a Black person
It's no different in the sense that it's normal and happens all the time? Women voice male characters, especially children constantly in media.
Anyway given that Jax is not an mid or post-transition transwoman why would their voice be notably different or more 'fem' anyway? Should they have hired a voice actor who is themselves a boymoder/repressor lol?

>>9239
death of the author has been a thing since forever, anon. let's not pretend you all weren't mocking J. K. Rowling for making shit up about her books, even decades after the fact

>>9241
fine, sorry!

>>9244
>death of the author has been a thing since forever
four decades isnt "forever". idgaf about how Valid you are for whatever insipid interpretations you come up with, not every interpretation is correct. its good to connect with a work and think about it critically (important keyword!), doesnt mean most people arent retarded anyway

>let's not pretend you all weren't mocking J. K. Rowling for making shit up about her books, even decades after the fact
the books themselves are retarded, the constant post scriptums were even more so

Could you imagine dealing with 500 of these comments a day as a professional in your field?

>>9243
That makes sense, thanks for your feedback

>>9246
What did she expect making a work for liberal children? I think the way she is lashing out at the fans and the work itself is distasteful

>>9249
>What did she expect making a work for liberal children?
She made a show for general audiences. I would say maybe she could've sprinkled a swear word or two here and there to bump it up to PG-13, but she did, but added the mechanic where it's diagetically censored, so idk.

>>9249
>I think the way she is lashing out at the fans is distasteful
lol you sound like a faggot. the best authors hate their fans

>and the work itself
where?

>>9251
she made it with the adult swim audience in mind actually

>>9255
Yeah I could definitely see this in the Adult Swim / Toonami lineup, I still think the show is appropriate for general audiences though.

>>9249
Artists should lash out at their fans more tbh instead of the parasocial shit they typically do. I think the show is a bit shit in general but I can’t fault anyone for that

>>9257
I will take this to heart, thanks.

>>9246
this shits depressing af shes completely resigned and just wants retards to stop bombarding her with braindead qs

You forgive Jax for his shitty behaviour because he has repressed body dysmorphia. I forgive him because I want to fuck his brains out. We are not the same.

>>9285
>forgive
sir this is a fictional character

>>9285
I forgive him for both reasons

>>9287
He may be fictional but these ropes I'm blasting sure aren't.

she was repressing it for the entire series, and when you take her abstraction as the suicide metaphor it was intended to be, the sequence where pomni gets to talk to her and hold her one last time is blatant, explicit wish fulfillment. everyone, *everyone* who has lost someone wants what pomni got, a chance to see her again, to share all the things you need them to know and to truly understand who they were, why they did the things they did, why they REALLY chose to end things
you will never stop wanting answers to those questions.

but in real life you don't get that. ever. jax died without anyone ever knowing she was trans. nobody but ragatha ever knew about ribbit, or how much her loss changed jax.

it's tragic. it hurts. it's supposed to.

>>>9239
Yea..
>>they didnt explain every single aspect le lore!!!!!!!!!
The only major relic we observed regarding the state of digital circus from the finale was that the characters in it were brain scans, which was also hinted in the previous episode. And anything but this revelation was, which had the most of the screentime, about Jax's past & the abstractions of his previous friends.

Of course, the truth of a system can be subjected and tested based on many various made-up criterions, and just like how we humans widely assume that the truth of an object released from a height compared to center of mass is to fall due to gravity (in every time in the future), the basis of its truth lies on our silent assumption of handling our observations in nature to be absolute and everlasting. If we think about it, if we were presented the idea that they were not neural scans but like AI with randomized backgrounds, there would be no completely reliable method to justify (or falsify) it. And we would just accept it as in the process of storytelling.

It is seemingly RIGHT that we might not accept any knowledge as absolute, and the storytelling in itself is nothing but a pure observation, the rest is for our assumption and judgement. But it is also important to note that bringing the course of story to Goosework's short ideas posted in social media that seem unthought-out is dull for many observants, including me I guess. I'd rather see them in the finale of the series rather than exploring "why" Jax "acts like that/as a meanie" , also for my appetite the made-up past for him was not vèry interesting, also nowhere it is written that one does need to have a "traumatic experience" to be a mean gúy like Jax, I was simply not pleased that the major part of the finale was devoted to "justify", or simply putting his bevahiour to a logical system appealing to general morality.

But at the end, guess we all have our own aestetic sense, it is just ok if you were alright with the ending.

>>9322
Feels like if a company in the 1990's went to the effort of making an AI twice and failed that would chew up quite a bit of their budget. I assumed that's what did them in. Feels like goose is just stating the obvious there.

>>9323
It's hard to imagine how they could get as far into development of sapient AI (including the brain scans) and not find a way to spin that into a sellable product though, or at least more investment

>>9323
I think the annoying part is just that they seemed to shelve or brush off a bunch of potentially more interesting questions about the Circus, Caine, or C&A to focus on Jax. What irritated me about the whole thing is how Jax doesn't really stand out as an especially important character or get much more development than others before the last episode (or maybe episode 6). It felt to me like her being trans didn't deserve to be some kind of major revelation worthy of being the big twist in the finale or whatever. It really felt like they just gave a quick, anti-climactic answer to the questions that had been building over the course of the show to focus on Goose's self-insert, then immediately kill her off and expect everybody to be satisfied with that. It would be like if Star Wars wrapped up everything with Darth Vader and the Empire in the first half of Return of the Jedi, and then Princess Leia turned to the camera and said "actually I'm a lesbian" and the rest of the movie was about that. I think it would have been better if Jax's gender identity were revealed in episode 6 during the argument with Pomni, then at least they could have explored that for a few episodes while also building to a more interesting explanation of the Circus itself.

daaaaaamnn why did the show focus only on aspects that were pertinent to the author's intended narrative instead of pandering to the matpat fnaf dark souls crowd?? they didnt focus on MY favorite side character either!!!

>>9331
Focusing on Jax is fine, but if that was the direction they wanted to go then it should have been the focus from the start. Instead they suddenly decided that Jax was the main character 2/3 of the way through and lazily tied up all the plot threads laid down in the earlier episodes to focus on that. It's a pacing issue really.

>>9255
>the best authors sperg out on twitter
Retarded contrarian

>>9257
I personally wish they'd fuck off. Artists are insufferable people

Not hating on Goose, but "What happens next" (the web comic) is far better in regards to speaking to trans zoomers, and I wish people would talk about that more often; on a surface level it would seem to be on the kind level of maturity (the tumblr aesthetic and pop-culture references don't help) but it's actually pretty realistic regarding its themes rather than replacing "suicide" with "abstraction" for example.

That was kind of a chatGPT answer but basically, it's a lose-lose situation regardless because it's always going to feel unnatural.

>>9257
>>9338
It goes both ways. Artists and fans are mutually toxic people who fail to realize that fiction is just meant for gratification for things that are impossible in meatspace.

>>9357
>on a surface level it would seem to be on the kind level of maturity (the tumblr aesthetic and pop-culture references don't help)

Mature works use pop culture references as well

>>9180
Leftypol is just Hebegynophilic just like their right wing counterparts