>>29601>Even harder to assert consensus that FBI destroyed OWS via idpol like that.Comet, what I don't get is why are you so invested in it NOT being idpol? Obviously this shit is going to be hard to prove, because unsurprisingly glowies aren't openly announcing their operations. However we know their MO, we know that the CIA and FBI have done this with American workers movements and invested heavily in Identity Politics ideologues that are often cited or delude large groups of people into sectarian idpol.
You do realize what COINTEL PRO is, right? You realize that FBI informants, agents, assets, etc. have ADMITTED to being involved in strike-breaking, provoking peaceful protests into becoming violent by planting people within groups to incite violence and so have justification for police crackdowns, and paying hitmen to kill leaders? Gloria Steinem didn't even pretend to hide her affiliation with the CIA and its well known that the CIA helped form the entire Ghettofication and racial division that we have today, and encourage it because idpol divides the working class. Have one bad-faith actor planted and causing consensus cracking and others ignorant and angry will pick it up and create division.
>claiming that idpol killed OWS does not violate against this.I… what? Comet are you okay? Nowhere did I say that claiming idpol killed OWS violates this. An anon was banned specifically for a post stating such a view, which is how this entire debate began >>>/leftypol/1668596
>People got shot and beaten in the Vietnam War protests and still nothing changed. Things did change, the CIA switched tactics, subtly and slowly influencing hollywood to depict Vietnam as we see the current genre of films (Apocalypse Now, Platoon, Full Metal Jacket etc.) which is why those films were permitted to be made. They capitalized on the socio-economic need to leave Vietnam and spun it for PR, and in the meantime prioritized in dividing the protest movements. The Vietnam protests were the beginning of what would also kill Occupy, killing leaders, whistleblowers etc. and planting divisive saboteurs. This plus the Reagan era Ghettofication of American cities and funneling of Columbian and Afghan heavy drugs into these poor areas created a horrible environment where criminal gangs thrived without the authority of people like the Black Panthers to curb them.
>This is deeply minor in comparison to that A result of material developments. During Vietnam they had to do a lot more to repress a revolt, which is how COINTEL PRO came to be in the first place. By the time Occupy came around, the CIA was well practiced and dug into every major organization and movement and knew where and what to push to destabilize it.
>BLM was a bigger deal/threat than OWS BLM is the picture of controlled opposition, the leadership of BLM was all rich, bourg black college kids that took all those donations and efforts and used them to pay for big houses and in return promoted identity politics based rhetoric that has made current racial tensions comparable to the 1970s. I posted about this before, but I grew up in "the hood" and shit has changed. People keep segregated by race with no need for police enforcement or so on, because everyone is angry at each other, because the leadership of BLM promoted some pseudo-leftist nonsense and pointed not to the bourgeoisie as the issue but the police and particularly white police, even though the police are a problem because of their function within the capitalist apparatus, and this is reflected in places like Chicago and Detroit, where primarily black police forces are seen to have high brutality rates against black citizens, and the rate of brutality against whites isn't far behind either, but media sensationalism promotes the latter to incite more racial tensions between people, so that while Black people see the image of them being brutalized by white cops, white people see a complete lack of coverage on brutality against them (for context 2 years back my white friend had the police break down his door and fill him with bullets for bullshit reasons. The News didn't even mention him in my area, let alone national TV. 6 fucking police cruisers blockig off a road, a bleeding corpse carted into an ambulance and barely a tweet online about it.)
So when you see shit like this, your idea of what is and isn't reality is twisted. BLM may have been even LARGER than OWS, but it was most certainly not more of deal or a threat.
>still have to cross the bridge to deal with how apathetic the people really are One does not exclude the other as you said, which means dealing with both is necessary. You're talking revolutionary defeatism right now. Besides one is linked with the other; the apathy comes from how useless and pointless pushing back feels to these people.
>Material benefits only go so far, people will not want to change the system unless they have to I mean duh, but that doesn't give us the right to talk shit about them either.
>at least you admit that you have the same Manichean outlook What? Do you even know how the Electoral College works? The "democratic" system in the USA has been broken for a long fucking time.