[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / edu / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / wiki / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]

/meta/ - Ruthless criticism of all that exists (in leftypol.org)

Discussions, querries, feedback and complaints about the site and its administration.
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Join our Matrix Chat <=> IRC: #leftypol on Rizon


File: 1714404912289.png (186.62 KB, 537x571, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.32786

why tf isn't LGBT its own board but instead an obscure thread in this board's /b/ equivalent (because apparently queer folk existing isn't political enough to be on the main board despite the fact there are several country exclusive main boards there)? It's how the right-wing infested board gives us better representation a space to be among our own but the supposedly leftist one doesn't

 No.32789

File: 1714405463612.png (3.41 MB, 1848x1702, 1714175442949.png)

Easier to keep /pol/s and thinktanks out when it's just one thread, + it's about active enough to stay a general. Besides, unlike 4chan it's not a containment measure: queerness tends to naturally come up in other discussions and that's permitted as needed to explore these relations, it's not all relegated to just that thread.

Like most of us are some form of queer, the general is just specifically about that first and foremost.

 No.32807

File: 1714411695657.png (899.93 KB, 1280x720, cat hole.png)

>>32786
>apparently queer folk existing isn't political enough to be on the main board
This has to be fucking bait. The fucking GALL to say that merely existing is political and to take away people's agency to live their lives by demanding they be partisan to identity politics.

>the fact there are several country exclusive main boards there

>an obscure thread in this board's /b/ equivalent
<This site? A board. The boards? Boards. The general threads? Boards.
Yeah you're definitely a tourist from reddit or fbi.gov
Also
>Imagine comparing Geo-politics encompassing socio-economics to identity politics.
You're that retard from last-week that kept getting caught by the word-filters, aren't you? Did your ban expire or did you hop onto a different VPN IP?

>how the right-wing infested board gives us better representation a space to be among our own

<wHy ArEn'T tHe MoDz SeGrEgAtInG pEoPlE!?
Yeah this is totes a good faith OP and not liberal-bait!

See >>32805

 No.32822

its inevitably going to end up as an imitation of 4chins /lgbt/, NO THANKS

 No.32825

>>32822
What do you mean? Don't you wanna see mtfs talk about how much they hate themselves to a bunch of other low self-esteem mtfs and use outdated sexology literature that paints trans people as potential predators/gay men

 No.32829

>>32786 (you asked this in the moderation thread before, the comment about "country exclusive boards" makes me suspect you posted this on a different site too.)
lgbt topics can be posted on the main boards. the current lgbt general thread is not obscure, it's one of the more-live general threads on the site.
a dead board that /lgbt/ topics are moved to (like how living homestuck threads get redirected to he dead-dead-dead /hobby/ ) would be a disaster. that would be the real equivelant of locking lgbt topics away in an obscure corner that nobody cares about.
you don't want a dedicated board for a topic unless you're sure that it'll draw in more people.

 No.32830

how would a /lgbt/ board be better? at least /siberia/ users will see the thread currently. sure it would make more sense to have a thread on the main board, but that would also make it the go-to spam target for inter/pol/ers.

 No.32831

As a gay person, NO /LGBT/ board.

The /LGBT/ thread is a hangout thread. Yeah, I push queer Marxist theory there from time to time, but there's not enough volume to merit a board. You will kill the little momentum it has.

Bring more queer leftists and then maybe I'll reconsider my opinion.

Also, you can post queer Marxist theory on /leftypol/.
AND ALL QUEERPHOBIA IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED AND PROMPTLY BANNED

don't AstroTurf / crack consensus, wrecker behavior.

 No.32832

>>32829
You're absolutely correct but
>living homestuck threads get redirected to he dead-dead-dead /hobby/
LOL no Homestuck thread is living. They get sent to /hobby/ after people stop properly responding, and peope do use /hobby/, it's just not as fast as the main boards.

 No.32835

>>32831
Explain "queer marxist theory" to me sexuality lacks a nature of class and you can basically find lgbt types of all political views in some corner of the world, it seems more a topic of psychology and biology.

 No.32837

>>32835
I can't be bothered to explain it right now, so I'll do a half assed job. Hopefully somebody picks up the slack.

I'll rephrase your question, not to mock you but to encourage you to think differently.
>to me sexuality lacks a nature of class and you can basically find women of all political views in some corner of the world, it seems more a topic of psychology and biology.
Does that mean that classed oppression of women doesn't exist? Or that because rich women exist then misogyny/patriarchy is no longer a relevant social issue? Just like Obama doesn't cure anti black racism, neither does Hillary cure the patriarchical social norms.

While the biology and psychology of women play a large role in the challenges they face (notice how I'm declassing women here on purpose), these challenges exist in relation to the broader society, including in how women relate to the process of production.

Women are frequently cast aside, not taken seriously, rejected in the workplace. Further, because of (cis) women's unique lifestyle choice of bearing children or not, they are also put in a myriad of positions that are detrimental to their social standing, like being treated as delicate, or not considered for leadership positions due to potentially missing work. Further, biological features inherent in many women makes them vulnerable to physical abuse.

Without getting too much into it as another author in the queer Marxist literature already wrote a good book about it (the origin of family etc by Xirself, Engels), patriarchical society was borne from the class relations in which our current society exists, and as such, many of those relations either remain de jure, or at the level of society's ideology.

Queer Marxist theory investigates the presupposed ways in which gender norms, family values, etc are reproduced in society, and gives us an analytic framework with which to pry away at bourgeoise notions of gender norms, including sexual orientation, gendered bodies and gendered medical views, transness vs cisness, and how these aspects of our social existence are intricately related to racism, colonialism, capitalism, the imposition of capitalism around the world, and our historically contingent understanding of sexuality.

You misunderstand Marxism when you merely apply it to class. Marxism isn't about classes. Marxism is about holistic analysis of processes of classed society. By studying things in a vacuum, instead of in relation to the things by which it is mediated by, you remove one of the most powerful aspects of Marxist analysis and you fall back into a liberal mode of analysis.

The liberation of queernes itself is none other than the liberation of humanity of the shackles of class society. At the nucleus of queerphobia lies the imposition of gender norms, and with that as well lies the imposition of class society. Essentially, queer Marxist then, is the next step in understanding the deep rooted mechanism of domination of class society.

 No.32839

File: 1714504072730.png (158.05 KB, 1265x440, idpol is bourgiousie.png)

>>32837
NTA but
>Women are frequently cast aside, not taken seriously, rejected in the workplace.
When? Where? Under what circumstances? In the USA this hasn't been relevant since the mid-80s, workplace discriminations based on sex is illegal, especially now. This lack of 'patriarchy' is even more visible in Europe.
>Just like Obama doesn't cure anti black racism, neither does Hillary cure the patriarchical social norms.
<le dems!
You're starting to trip the glowie alarms m8.
>classed oppression of women doesn't exist?
Note the importance of the term "CLASSED" its oppression of women as a part of the greater working class. While issues that are particular to women exist, the material origin of these issues are a result of class oppression. Do you genuinely think Hillary Clinton has ANY issues because she's a woman? Or Psaki? Or any other upper-class woman? It's entirely a proletarian problem. And as we saw with the USSR, these issues were resolved by the socialist revolution and the elimination of material issues.

Also to associate Women's issues as being a Queer issue is liberalism; only liberal ideology lumps ethnicity/race, sex and sexuality all together when they are entirely separate aspects of identity.

>Marxism is about holistic analysis of processes of classed society. By studying things in a vacuum, instead of in relation to the things by which it is mediated by, you remove one of the most powerful aspects of Marxist analysis and you fall back into a liberal mode of analysis.

Absolutely incorrect. Notably because not ONCE do you mention a core part of Marxism's "holistic" approach - Dialectical Materialism.

Identity politics essentializes identity without regards to the material relations underpinning it. At best, it assimilates identities within the realm of discourse and media (not economic autonomy and security!); at worst it incites intra-class conflicts. As socialists, we fight for the free determination of all individuals and their full emancipation from oppressive power structures. The rights of individuals to liberty is inherent to this.

It is for this reason that identity struggles can only be considered as a particular manifestation of class struggle and only in context of a proletarian member of said identity. This is because identity politics as such are the neoliberal recuperation of particular class struggles at the expense of the whole class struggle, and hence counter-revolutionary. Being against identity politics does not mean that oppression based on personal characteristics does not exist, but rather that fighting for the emancipation of individual identities without a class character ultimately amounts to fighting for token individual emancipation whilst excluding others, rather than emancipating the group as a whole.

Instead, we advocate for the political organization of communities on the grounds of class analysis, class solidarity, to achieve political gains and protection now, with the ultimate goal of full emancipation of all the working class. Intersectionality, in the meantime is a liberal theory about systems of oppressions and how they overlap. For example, it's different being gay and black, than those things separately, which gets misconstrued as meaning solidarity between gays and blacks, when they're 2 separate aspects of identity.

Most idpol discourse is basically nationalism but replace nation with the identity group. That's why the intersectional thing works so well to divide people. You get people thinking in terms of "only people like me" and then feed them as many differences as you can so they will cordon themselves off as much as possible.

TL;DR: Creating an /LGBT/ board is identity politics and directly contradicts socialism; the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of CLASS struggle

See the following
>I am a woman and a human: a Marxist feminist critique of intersectionality theory - Eve Mitchell
https://libcom.org/library/i-am-woman-human-marxist-feminist-critique-intersectionality-theory-eve-mitchell
>It's A Class Struggle Goddammit! - Fred Hampton
>Intersectionality: A Marxist Critique by Barbara Foley
https://multiracialunity.org/2018/09/26/intersectionality-a-marxist-critique/
>Privilege politics is reformism
http://libcom.org/library/privilege-politics-reformism

PS
>Xirself, Engels
Bait used to be believable.

 No.32844

I don't want an /lgbt/ board. have you ever seen how shitty 4chan's /lgbt/ board is? that shit needs to be contained to its own thread

t. gay tran-knee faggot

 No.32845

File: 1714521137941.jpg (15.65 KB, 480x480, pardon nigga.jpg)

>>32844
>t. gay tran-knee faggot
Is that how you self-describe yourself?

 No.32846

>>32845
slur reclaiming is valid

 No.32847

>>32846
>Anarchist-Marxist-Leninist-Maoist
why the fuck did my name get set to this lmao

MODS

 No.32855

>>32845
Self-loathing transgender people who can't get past their institutionalized hatred are like that.

 No.32858

Already discussed: >>31347
I will also reiterate that the /lgbt/ general had no interest in this when asked.

This is starting to stink of being an astroturf. For fuck's sake don't let our dogshit moderation fall for it.

 No.32868

>>32845
>>32855
>le self-hate
queers have called themselves faggots for decades so trans people calling themselves tr*nnies shouldnt be surprising

 No.32871

>>32845
>>32855
>wahhh you can't reclaim the T word
"Tr-nny" is on its own a harmless and even cute word. It gets its power from being abused by bigots. The power can be taken away by reclaiming and embracing it, like with most slurs.

 No.32872

>>32871
>>32868
These are correct. Uncritical support.

 No.32878

>>32871
>wahhh you can't reclaim the T word
I said no such thing, I was just kinda shocked they used it about themselves. The term actually was a term trans people used for themselves in the past, but was co-opted by the right-wing during the stormfront era.
>he power can be taken away by reclaiming and embracing it, like with most slurs.
I agree, but not all trans people do, so I just avoid using it.


Unique IPs: 10

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / edu / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / wiki / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]