Not posting this in that dogshit meta board so the mods can ignore it and the userbase can not have a chance to discuss
If mods auto-remove this after leaving up a fucking race science thread they will have shown where their loyalties lie
At this point /leftypol/ has been turned into an even shittier version of siberia and siberia is indistinguishable from any other pathetic incel hole amongst the internet’s various chans
We went from threads where people wrote essays worth of discussion with each other to faggots spewing one liners and memes
This needs to end; this thread is for the few remaining communists to discuss if we can and how we can retake our forum
Agreed.
The quality has gone down so much and allowing people who openly promote nazi traditionalism, with flag and all, or just people who solely post single sentence replied, kills the board.
I think its just a fact that most of the people who actually know their shit left because the board is increasingly just terminally online debate addicts, nazis, ziggers and other low effort posters who would rather spend time spamming "based china" "based deng" "based putin" "subhuman ukrops" than writing an analysis about why they think what they think (and if you tell them this they will just post quote mined out of context bs that can be disproven within seconds without them adding any of their own thoughts). The fact that no fresh blood is coming in combined with bad moderation of retarded anti-socialist positions (which just lets them dominate) combined with the slow erosion of people who know what they are doing leads to the state we are in.
Those who actually read a book once in their lives won't find further deepening discussion on this site because those that want to engage in it are few and far between and drowned out by those who just want to treat this board as a twitter page in which they cannot be blocked, a place to shout at people they think are their enemy in some online culture war.
>>37780Its gotten worse.
>>37783>ban incelpostingIsn't si/b/eria supposed to be containment for incels
how did they break out
>>37785No it was just a random board
And the problem isn’t the incels per se
It’s that Siberia has functionally allowed non-socialists and “funny” anti-communists (not in the bs stalinist sense of critical of MLs, but the actual sense of being overt reactionaries) to gather and build a mini-community on the site
>>37786The point is that with a good mod team all the
>wahh I want sexothreads get insta banned on /leftypol/ or at least quickly moved to si/b/eria so then the people voicing such sentiments don't contaminate the main board. So far the division has worked pretty well.
>>37787I mean it was like that in the 8chan days except we didn't even have a containment board /pol/ was a click away and loved to brigade so every thread would be never ending arguments.
>>37783Moronic.
Simply create an incel general so they dont make 10 different threads about the same thing. No, sex and relationship general is not an incel general, its topic is way too broad and past effort to collapse everything related into it contributes to the current problem. Incels are part of this community, this is like the one leftist space where they can talk, banning them will just push them into right-wing websites.
Also make a porn board, to keep siberia at least a little clean.
Exercise quality control for discussion on /leftypol/, if someone is doing nothing but insulting people, ban them.
And most importantly, more transparency for why someone is banned on part of the mod team, right now people keep getting banned or threads anchored or deleted utterly arbitrarely, based on whims of individual mods. Like look at the log
https://leftypol.org/log.php?board=leftypol, the bans lack any explanation beyond one word buzzwords like "chud" or "idpol", have mods write a short one sentence description of what the poster did and why it warrants banning.
>>37794So I want to note that despite accusing me of derailing my thread it was actually this anon who wished to start an argument by implying here:
>>37784That he wanted mod action against people who disagreed with him wrt nationalism and third worldism.
Curious as to his argument, I replied with Trotsky, whereupon he revealed himself with this post:
>>37792As someone not sincerely interested in debate but just wanting to shut out all dissenting opinions because anti campists can't actually argue so they want to ban everyone instead.
This is definitive proof of the intellectual feebleness of anticampists.
>>37790> I mean it was like that in the 8chan days except we didn't even have a containment board /pol/ was a click away and loved to brigade so every thread would be never ending arguments.Lmao fuck off
Stop pretending this is or should be old leftypol
The original board was a bastion in a sea of reaction
Right now this is a pristine lake letting fascist pollution seep in
“Le trolls always existed XD” is how 4chin reacted to stormfags too
>>37790>with a good mod team Even when taking this ridiculous premise of leftypol.org being able to recruit a good set of mods, an even bigger problem is the fact that they don't even use the site. We frequently have 12h, 20h gaps where not a single mod even checks the website. Within that period of time a nazi has the capacity of writing hundreds of posts, bait threads, sliding shit, repelling any genuine newcomer that just concludes "oh this is just some neonazi front chan" and never returns. AND WHEN THE MODS DO COME BACK, they merely bumplock half, treat the rest as "good faith", don't check other thread reply-chains, and then just go back to Twitter or whateverthefuck. But to reinforce the first point - we've gotten to this point because
the mods actively promote this environment. The present state of things on leftypol.org is not by chance. They mold it to be this shitposty, they maintain a biased political stance against their own rules because they're majority revisionists, the prioritize quantity > quality and thus /siberia/ is 4/b/+4/r9k/+4/hc/+4/pol/, let geopol clog /leftypol/ and do nothing to make something out of /edu/ and raise the quality of dialogue because this way it gives the illusion that the site "is still alive" by metrics alone. They will not chage, they have heard these criticisms for at least two years, they go on deaf ears and the problem gets noticeably worse every single season.
In fact nukechan.net was created with a reasonable set of rules and democratic moderation specifically due to this becoming a noticeable problem already in 2023. It enforces
socialist discourse, not ""leftism" + reactionaries". It has a more focused set of boards, rules and guidlines; here are some relevant ones:
https://nukechan.net/rules.html>2. Non-socialist content is tolerated, so long as it is sincere and dialectical, or otherwise valued. Extremely inflammatory topics (e.g. rationalising child abuse) or disruptive proselytising may not be tolerated.>3. No exploitative spamming, ads, flooding, botposting or abusing site infrastructure without permission from the tech team.>1. No pornography, gore or shock images. There are other sites for those.>1. Don't treat this site like one you arrived from. Lurk before posting.>3. Put thought into a thread before you create it, as it may exist for a long time. Make the first image relevant and distinctive as it will be most visible in the catalog view.I recommend you contribute positively to the network effect and come write a reply to something interesting once or at least every other day. We don't have to wither as a community here because of the dogshit moderation, there are options open for a path forward.
>>37778The mods are overwhelmed by the volume of posting or just doing nothing on purpose. You see so many posts that don't get removed for hours, if ever.
>muh ziggersThat word immediately shows you to be a bad faith actor who shouldn't be allowed to post either. What do you mean by "zigger"? How do you differentiate yourself from Ukrainian anticommunists and other NED useful idiots that openly and proudly use talking points such as "asiatic hordes", "evropa is racially superior", "soviet imperialism", "chinese bugmen"? How do you communicate this difference to other people? Because when most people use the word, it just means "opposition to US color revolution and open intent of genocide and enslavement in multiple countries of more than 1 billion people in total". Gee, I wonder why communists would be against that.
Also, yes, virtually all people here are weird SJWs, some more than others. No one communist has truly been free of liberalism yet, leaders like Lenin, Mao, Stalin all had quite problematic liberal influences that resulted in big problems down the line, like the existence of Israel in the modern day. What we can do is recognize these influences and work to counteract them.
>>37809Another example of the derailment I mean from Z posters
>Why don’t you want to accept just hating America and the West!?!?Because faggots like you quickly pivot to ranting about how queers and migration are a westoid ploy and ackshaully workers in the imperial core are disorganized due to heckin wokeness and the only way to resolve this contradiction and return to organized class struggle is by collaborating with fascists and idk becoming fascists lolololololol
Groypers weren’t influential here until ziggers and the entire nationalist peanut gallery were
>>37812>The z symbol, which was used by supporters of the russian side in the ukrainian war as a symbol of identity, predates a variation that was created for said symbol as a slur for people who support the russian side in the ukraine warSay it aint so!
Next you're gonna claim black people existed before they invented the n word.
>>37810Answer the question. I personally oppose anticommunists like picrel 1 in that post, so I am a zigger by the majority definition. Is that what YOU mean by that word?
>>37811Have you ever looked at what kinds of posts people make in /ukr/? Not this, that's for sure. People there are still very critical of the Russian state. What you have is a strawman.
>>37824Didn’t say ban nationalism outright, I’m not partial to just blanket banning outlooks
More, it’s worth drawing a line when it’s getting too much and when overtly reactionary idealist shit is being promoted bc “Dur murica bad”
The ultras aren’t much better since they essentially promote racism and national chauvinism for westerners, but they only returned to the dynamic very recently after a very long absence here
>>37784>>37829>>37824>>37782TOR is only part of the problem.
>>37821Idk man. NTA but Methinks nostalgia is blinding you.
You're getting older and it's time to grow out of "isolated" forum sites.
>>37827Methinks discrimination should also include misandry and anti whitey and cishetphobia
>>37800Literacy was less a century ago
>>37803>>37806Again, imageboards were always shit holes. Your pining I er the good old days is what fuels shit posting.
Most imageboard users are by default socially defective people who are still waiting to have their "big day out"
>>37786it worked for /isg/
>>37784many forms of nationalism are so inseperable from leftist traditions that its not possible to "evaluate" that while remaining a non-sectarian site
>>37781agreed
>>37783i do think the board improved when cyclical threads were ended and enforcement of thread relevance became more lax. some new shitty threads that would have been deleted before too but overall i think its an improvement
>>37835Why?
You think discrimination is only against women, cishet folk and ethnic minorites?
I'm a black man and I don't like people romanticising me as a person just because of my ethnotacial status.
I don't like how LeftyPol sympathises the ghettofab lumpen shit that's infested my contemporary ethnic culture since the 1990s.
I also don't like how because I'm a cishet male I'm automatically labelled as an oppressor.
I thought LeftyPol was supposed to be above spooks?
I thought they were focused on class, not race nor gender.
But once again, having to deal with incels, simps, and SJWs tells me that LeftyPol is just a mix of 4chan and Reddit.
>>37778Imageboards at their heart was about social defects who cannot and will not leave behind the childhood social neglect.
It doesn't matter what political or religious belief you have.
Hell, race , gender nor nationality matter either
It's all about people still trying to have the romantic teenage life they never got to have.
It's especially telling with the genpol on here.
>>37827Just giving hour or day bans for bullshit is enough to get it to tone down, the mods had a decent system going for dealing with reactionaries, the problem is that the dereliction of duty.
The system works if mods ban perma for reactoids and temp for others; the problem is they’re doing nothing at all
>>37843Case in point.
You're only showing that you don't really care about class war. You only want an inverted patriarchy.
Merely bashing cishet folk, men, and whites isn't productive to leftist causes.
Especially since you guys base your ideology on cishet white males.
>>37840Because equating anti-white racism with racism against poc (for lack of a better term), cishetphobia with queerphobia and misandry with misogyny is a favorite of actual reactionaries so if you banned it you would get rid of a lot of them.
It's also dumb because it is an idealist way to approach the issue of chauvinism, as if the problem is one of a kind of thought or speech which is equally bad on a moralistic level regardless of what the social reality it is referring to is. A gay or trans person can be as virulently anti-cishet as they want but that will not change the fact that cishet people are not in actual danger because they are cishet. That's not the case for gay and trans people. I will be called a radlib just for saying this, which is a mark of exactly how far this place has degenerated.
>>37847>>37846>>37848Once again you guys are proving my point that you guys care more about idpol than class.
Also, for context, children are the most vulnerable demographic of all, even more than disabled.
Yet, you guys are against student autonomy and homeschooling
>>37844>r/communism>253K members, 19 online>Top post of the week: 4 commentsDead subreddit. If reddit is so much more usable, why even bother having an imageboard? Also there is a Hexbear, is leftypol is just too edgy for you, another dying place.
I like imageboards, and I like to be able to post what I want without some mods looking over my shoulder, putting his stamp on what I can or cant post. If someone is doing nothing but spam slurs, sure, ban then, but there should be a free speech, there are lot of people who consider retarded to be a slur, hell, speaking of reddit, r/socialism I remember had this entire struggle session over whether calling people stupid is ableist.
>>37849One thing is a place being so sanitized and lockstep that you cannot even intelligently disagree on sensitive issues or are forced to follow a certain line. Another is acting like it's some crucial cultural thing that actual Nazis be tolerated and people be allowed to fling slurs left and right. Imageboards are imageboards and I am not under the illusion I'm gonna change that by posting in a leftypol meta thread, nor do I burst into tears whenever I see "wrongthink" or a slur. But it's still stupid, what exactly is added to a forum by that level of tolerance? We're Communists and not liberals, we're not supposed to believe in free speech.
>>37850>you guys care more about idpol than classPic related but for racial minorities and women too. Idpol has become a next to useless term, some of you idiots think it just means racial and sexual minorities being positively acknowledged at all.
>you guys are against student autonomy and homeschoolingIdk about you but I actually read Marx so I am against the family.
>>37848>Because equating anti-white racism with racism against poc (for lack of a better term), cishetphobia with queerphobia and misandry with misogyny is a favorite of actual reactionaries so if you banned it you would get rid of a lot of them.
>It's also dumb because it is an idealist way to approach the issue of chauvinism, as if the problem is one of a kind of thought or speech which is equally bad on a moralistic level regardless of what the social reality it is referring to is. A gay or trans person can be as virulently anti-cishet as they want but that will not change the fact that cishet people are not in actual danger because they are cishet. That's not the case for gay and trans people. I will be called a radlib just for saying this, which is a mark of exactly how far this place has degenerated.You're acting just like the reactionaries you hate by dismissing misandry, cishetohonia and anti white racism as "exaggeration".
They do exist and just because reactionaries use them as baiting points doesn't make them less real.
Also, hate to tell you this but queers, ethnic minorities, and women are not all mutual allies.
Look at how hatred/contempt for Indians and Pakistan is are allowed on here.
Look at how conservative/lib women are hated upon.
Y'all defend young exuberant slim women but will spit on older less pretty less docile women
A lot of posts even encourage getting camwhores to attract potential leftists.
You guys also hate on femboys and bisexuals for being "traitors".
>>37852Public schooling is worse.
Have any of you been to inner city schools at all?
Also homeschooling can be controlled by regulating which adults are allowed to breed.
>>37851Mods ban you for any slight irritation.
They ban you for making a cynical post while allowing others to make more vitriolic posts
Also, the fellow users always wanna shut down others opinions and wine about "glowies" "echo chambers" "boomers" "zoomers" etc despite acting just like the straw men they hate.
>>37859if it was done for quality than all the hazzie posts would be gone lol
>>37850homeschooling is just a nice euphemism for child abuse by christian fundies
>>37855>Also, hate to tell you this but queers, ethnic minorities, and women are not all mutual alliesWe're derailing the thread at this point but this is exactly as relevant as hazoid claims about the working class being anti-immigrant. Even if it were true, and it's certainly exaggerated by reactionaries, so what? They're not mutual allies so fuck them? Chauvinism isn't Communist period.
Also I am bisexual and I was dealing with biphobia before your anime ass meme identity was even a thing so do not tell me about what I do or why lol. If you wanna dress up as astolfo then I could not have less of an issue with it but jesus christ, listen to yourself.
>Look at how conservative women are hated upon.Good, they should be. Fuck house uighers and pickme queer people too. If you are reactionary idgaf what minority you're from.
>A lot of posts even encourage getting camwhores to attract potential leftistsEither you are spending too much time on siberia or this happened once and you're still mad about it. You don't even see a lot of pro "sex work" shit on this board (thankfully), let alone encouraging people to cam
>>37862I asked for a char limit for OP's but instead all they did was add an upper-limit to posts, wiping out news posts as a thing.
What i learned was, don't bother, if they make any changes they'll make it worse.
>>37865if someone is making racist sexist lgbtphobic etc. slurs you can bet theyre probably a reactionary. what's the chance theyre actually a principled leftist who just happens to also say those things? no, theyre either a cringe basement dweller who thinks saying transphobic shit is a part of his culture because he has none, or a pol tourist to begin with
you know what people outside of leftypol think? that its a bunch of cringe 4channers who are racist. because thats what it looks like when they come here. this is a very well known website, but people dont come because this place sucks
>>37872>>37871>>37870>>37868Alt righers are only half of the problem. The other half are the simps and idpol folks. And they often are intersectional in beliefs
>>37861>>37863>Also I am bisexual and I was dealing with biphobia before your anime ass meme identity was even a thing so do not tell me about what I do or why lol. If you wanna dress up as astolfo then I could not have less of an issue with it but jesus christ, listen to yourself.What "anime ass meme" are you referring to?
And what is your beef?
>Either you are spending too much time on siberia or this happened once and you're still mad about it. You don't even see a lot of pro "sex work" shit on this board (thankfully), let alone encouraging people to camI wish this pro sex work sentiment was only on Siberia.
It's spread here too.>>2095089
>>37780It's worse now as other people said at least you had effort posts among the shit posts and nazi's and despite mods like Che being an autist he actually would stop that shit.
>>37783I agree with this. Actually just kill Siberia and the other boards at this point they get like a dozen posts a week. If the Siberia posters shit up the main board they can just catch a perma and be done with it.
>>37863>Even if it were true, and it's certainly exaggerated by reactionaries, so what? They're not mutual allies so fuck them? Chauvinism isn't Communist period. So you understand that hating upon cishet folks, men, and whites for not being "mutual allies" is also chauvinistic?
Also, I read a bit of Haz posts and he seems to me like a sycophant no different from those Hispanic white supremacists.
>>37780All the other replies here disagreeing with you are telling of how coping people are on here.
They don't understand that theyre getting older and they need to move in to more mature ways of discussing their alleged leftist philosophy.
>>37879I'm not referring to femboys.
I'm talking about against bisexual males. As in plain looking ones. Not the femboys or hunky beauty types.
>>37876I am not pro chauvinism against cishet people, men or whites. But it's willful ignorance of how bigotries like queerphobia, misogyny and anti poc (again, don't like the term but ykwim) racism operate to say that they are functionally equal.
>>37880Well you mentioned both
>>37877Yeah we've started having rules founded in the assumption that primary rules aren't enforcable.
It may be time to reasses the structure of the site, maybe develop an activitypub-enabled imageboard software so moderation can scale.
>>37868Haz/ACP shit is banned by special ordinance, see
>>>/meta/37647. Report such things and refer to ordinance 1.
>>37861Most Christian fundamentalists don't even homeschool their kids. And ironically public schooling is far more rife with child abuse. Bullying and corporal punishment were rampant and still are in alot of places.
Leftists talk about welfare of the children but they still wanna sell out to public schooling and wanna coddle bullies and abusive teachers.
>>37882Ok fair point.
>>37885I did. And he's wrong.
Less people were literate a century ago.
Literacy is now used as a term to refer to people who conform to liberal academic opinions.
Also, irony is, literacy doesnt make one leftist
In fact, a lot of our academic institutions promoted sexism, racism, and cishet supremacy.
>>37886This is why I don't like getting head.
Just rub one out between the thighs instead.
>>37888I reported the Indian thread consistently and the mods didn’t do a fucking thing
People were even making meta threads about it
Sort your shit
So I woke up this morning and now i have to read through a thread of 900+ posts and see whats bannable.
There's been alot of groyper crossposting since the elon/h1b meltdown.
On the other hand, I kind of feel some of you deserve the blame. For one, that whole thread had tons of soyjaks straight out of halfchan/sharty and literally no one reported them. I know, because I was looking at the reports. Maybe another mod dismissed them before I got to it, but I don't think so.
As we all know posting non leftypol OC 'jaks is banned. So please use the fucking report button.
Secondly, I feel like alot of you have gotten soft, when /leftypol/ was on 8chan there would be fascist crossposting posting their I Q memes and anti semitic schizo graphs all the time. They would be refuted pretty promptly.
You have to decide if you guys want to debate rightoids (including libertarians/fascists) or they should just be banned on sight. As per rule 7:
>7) Reactionism and liberalism, or any other kind of non-leftist positions are not banned in itself, as we will endeavour to allow and encourage people of other political philosophies to explore leftism through /leftypol/ so long as they follow the rules contained herein. However, non-leftist users are ultimately to be considered ‘guests’ and thus will be removed if they prove a nuisance or disrupt the normal functioning of the site. Low-effort raiders will be banned.Opening posts with liberalism or reactionary topics will be treated with far more scrutiny to prevent them filling the catalog.
If we want to change that thats fine, we can go full reddit hugbox.
Keep in mind low effort shit is still bannable so I will be doing something about that soon.
>>37877Well good thing I want to kill all the generals too due to them this site is just a half a dozen generals in a trench coat. As for your other point chalk that up to mods actually clapping people.
>>37881You're aware that your IP is tagged on the backend of this site right? We wouldn't have to even talk about banning tor nodes if it's primary use wasn't just ban evasion.
>>37894>just report the 500+ posts one by one browhy do I need to do that when it is literally the first thread on the overboard
>>37898>I'm outgood, and stay out
>>37894>Secondly, I feel like alot of you have gotten soft, when /leftypol/ was on 8chan there would be fascist crossposting posting their I Q memes and anti semitic schizo graphs all the time. They would be refuted pretty promptly. VGH
Remember what they took from vs.
fr tho the board was better then because people would seriously discuss things. >>37894>Secondly, I feel like alot of you have gotten soft, when /leftypol/ was on 8chan there would be fascist crossposting posting their I Q memes and anti semitic schizo graphs all the time. They would be refuted pretty promptly. You have to decide if you guys want to debate rightoids (including libertarians/fascists) or they should just be banned on sight. As per rule 7:
The nazi posts and reactionary posts along with dumbass magacom posts aren't even in good faith so saying we might need to change the rule when it already breaks rule 7 is the problem. Also we would have raids on 8chan but they actually got dealt with and we could go back to normal discusions. It's not the case when the posters just get to keep shitting up threads.
>>37894You don’t think there’s a serious fucking problem when multiple threads are dominated by rightoids?
>NO JUST OUT DEBATE THEMNot possible when they are the numerical majority
Nobody is saying enforce some ML consensus, but if obvious rightoids are dominating a thread maybe it’s time to make judicious use of the ban function, yeah?
>>37894>Secondly, I feel like alot of you have gotten soft, when /leftypol/ was on 8chan there would be fascist crossposting posting their I Q memes and anti semitic schizo graphs all the time. They would be refuted pretty promptly. Based and true.
The current state of the userbase is because mods were overbearing for a very long time, /leftypol/es nowadays just want to wait for the invisible hand of moderation to smite their foes rather than btfoing them and convincing the lurkers while at it.
Also the .onion is down please fix.
>>37914Not a janny but:
- don't engage with righoid posts: the thrill of debate is the bait
- report and the interact with posts below it to make it less visible to debate addicts
>>37898If i wanted to be in a shithole dominated by nazis and liberals I would just start posting on twitter.
I want a place to discuss communism with communists, not be attacked by retards because I don't hate trans people hard enough.
>>37917>Dude just use facts and logic to debate le browns are subhuman that eat cats and shit in the street, don’t you care about converting polfaggots bro!?No
Just ban those cunts
You can’t debate malicious nonsense, you ignore and silence it, if rightoids are dominating the board it’s not because le freeze peach and le debate must BTFO them, it’s because they’ve become a numerical majority and the mods can and should use their ability to purge discussions and the board to fix it
This isn’t a rightoid to communist conversion board
>>37921Don't deb8 them just point out their retardation.
Engaging in deb8 to try to convince the poltards themselves is useless as you say.
>>37923>Don't deb8 them just point out their retardation.If they are the numerical majority "pointing out their retardation" is not going to work.
Left wing politics irl has been "pointing it out" for years and years. It doesn't work. They just overwhelm you by posting at the same pace per person. If just pointing it out worked then why is reddit, twitter and every other places infested with them?
Listen fucko, back in the early days Leftypol may have served a dual purpose of being a communist holdout in a sea of reactionary gaymergayed shit, and in doing so converted some people, but that is not the case anymore. These people are not confused 16 year olds who crawl out of their own board and engage in good faith discussions to try and understand why we are communists. That happened back then, and poltards who just came to shit up the board were instantly banned. The people on this board now are a group in and of themselves who found this website a free and accomodating place for their reactionary bullshit, who found a moderation team unwilling to ban them, who have made this board into a place to circlejerk over their reactionary idiocy with each other, and have formed a large enough group that their low effort insistent posting and baiting just drowns out anything else.
Nazis in the past would be banned if they started to bad faith interpret everything, if they started to purposefully argue using solely fallacious bs, when they started shouting nothing but insults, but that isnt happening anymore. You can spend half an hour writing detailed, sourced arguments only for these retards to go
>muh degeneracy>nuh uh all sources you post I don't believe i only believe things that affirm what I already believe>you're just a white yankee anglo first worldist reeee>oh so you support genociding je- i mean russians?!Pointing out how they are wrong does not work, and it did not work in the past. What did it do in the past? Since more people seeking information were around back then, the thread served as a public podium for actual communists to address questions for all to see, so both other communists could use said arguments more easily and so curious people would be able to read them.This is shown by how we used to screencap a lot more threads and posts back then to re-use as standard replies. Now only once every blue moon some post gets screencapped. It was like a collective Q&A stream, with the "streamer" being the actual communists on the board, and the audience being both other communists and curious people. And the mods did their job in banning people unwilling to learn or accept the communist line, who merely were there for "debate", but not actual "debate", just shouting matches. God I wish these retards that dominate the board these days would engage in actual debate.
You think, and that also goes to the mod that replied and wasn't a mod back then, that leftypol always just functioned by "telling people to fuck off". No, it did not. It worked by maintaining a strict line on which opinions are within the "official collection of lines" and which were forbidden. Outright pro-idpol communists were banned on sight. Tradcoms or as they call themselves now "Magacoms" were banned on sight. Nazis were banned on sight. They were only tolerated to temporarily take the mic, to post for a while, so long as they were in the subservient position of the conversation, willing audience for the actual board members to explain to them how shit worked. As soon as they overstayed their welcome and started to just push their views that didn't allign within the official lines of the board, they were banned.
The board served as a place to push a specific worldview, a worldview limited in scope and enforced by the moderation team, it was never an open forum. We specifically split/couped from bunkerchan because of this, because _space, for all the friend he was to me, wanted to give tradcoms and nazis their own dedicated board on the website.
This board was never an open space for discussion and you're delusional if you think it ever was. Just like a party, this board is an instrument in service of a goal, the promotion of our ideals. And just like a party, it was limited in which lines were and which lines weren't allowed to dominate the board, which is especially important due to being a chanboard and approval by users (both posting and lurking) not being measured or visible in any way, and thus being susceptible to tactics such as consensus breaking or board sliding.
So tell me, both you, and the current mods, what is the purpose of this board? What are the official lines that are enforced by the mods?
Is magacom allowed?
Is dengism allowed?
Is third worldist idpol allowed?
Is 'support russia in their noble struggle against ukraines genocide' allowed?
Because I think it is time you start to think once more about why this website exists in the first place, what you try to achieve with this, and to make this clear to the board. Because whether or not this or that group stays and keeps using the board depends on this. And which groups you attract depends on this too.
>>37937>aversion to making hugboxeswhy would you want to make yourself uncomfortable?
it isn't that people don't want hugboxes, it is that social media discovered that bait and "debate" generate more engagement. it is like if tobacco companies put crack in their cigarettes. would it suck for the consumers? yes. would it generate a stronger chemical addiction and thus more revenue and captive consumers? also yes
>>37936This board has always enforced "a party line", starting at the time with
>Any form of communism or anti-capitalism, so long as it is not>explicitly pro-femininist in the flavour of the day where it was used as a bludgeon to attack other communists for not being "woke enough" even though the term woke wasnt even a thing yet>explicitily pro-intersectionality>some flavour of right wing idpol, including white supremacy, misogyny, chauvinism, or something else>some flavour of essentialismThis was the "party line", on the basis of which it was founded over ten years ago, on the basis of which it was moderated, on the basis of which it attracted new users. This is undeniable.
Whether or not che's decision to ban support for rojava, which I didnt support at the time, is a different and good discussion to have, as discussion about which line the board must have, (and more broadly, if an open forum for people within that line is a sufficient basis for existance of the site), is what this thread is about. But it is simply undeniable that every forum, ever, in the history of the internet, had an official line of allowed opinions.
>>37920it all started with the
bunkerchan wojak script
>>37934>Is magacom allowed?You are extremely online if you worry about such idiocies.
>Is dengism allowed?China is literally winning as we speak, so we definitely should demonize it instead of celebrating it.
>Is third worldist idpol allowed?You'd call Lenin's texts on the labor aristocrats in the West idpol.
>Is 'support russia in their noble struggle against ukraines genocide' allowed?Whatever hurts NATO is unironically good for communism and humanity as a whole.
Your concerns seem so removed from reality and seem to indicate that you want us to maintain some kind of safe space or information bubble tailored for a stereotypical American leftist. As others have pointed out there are dozens of sites like that.
>>37943If that ban is stupid, then why isn't a ban on nativist social democracy?
Why isn't a ban on identity politics?
I don't think it is very relevant right now if banning support for rojava specifically was stupid then, what is important now is admitting that there *is* a party line, whether consciously or unconsciously, and it is enforced, like in the past like now. It is undeniable that there is a line, because some opinions are always allowed and some opions are not allowed.
I am allowed to say "kill all ceos every ceo should be filled with liquid gold no mercy no re-education"
But I am not allowed to say "the jews control the world kill the jews".
There is a line. You cannot deny this. The question is now, for the mods and us as users by informing them in this thread, what that line ought to be.
And once the mods can make it clear what the line is, moderation can be made better, quality can improve. And people can objectively decide whether or not they wish to keep posting here, or go somewhere else, based on the line.
Because as you can clearly see by this thread, a lot of people just don't want to post on this board in the condition it is now in, because of another group of posters, and vice versa, and they are all under the assumption that this is just "a flaw in moderation which will be fixed because the mods are on my side". We don't know what side the mods are on, because the mods don't know it themselves.
And to the mods, please keep in mind, you're doing this for free, you put in a ton of work trying to keep the shitheap that is this sites codebase up and running. You spend money keeping a server up. You spend lots of time cleaning up gore, child porn and less disgusting but still annoying nazi spam. Fundamentally, keeping this site alive because of sunk cost fallacy, is not a good reason. Trying to keep everyone "on board" when clearly there are 2 or more clearly opposing wishes for a fundamental different conception of what this site ought to be, is also pointless. People are unhappy with the state the site is in, and most users still left are just here because they have been posting for years, hoping it will some day get better, but it won't get better if you keep trying to run this site in a noncommittal way, you just surrender yourself and your time and your energy and your happiness to people who you don't even like.
So make it clear among yourselves what this site ought to be according to you, and then make it clear to the users, so we all know what is what.
>>37946>You are extremely online if you worry about such idiocies.This entire site is extremely online and there are plenty of posters here who support it.
>China is literally winning as we speak, so we definitely should demonize it instead of celebrating it.Just say you're a dengist
>You'd call Lenin's texts on the labor aristocrats in the West idpol.Absurd statement which is just emblematic of the bad faith default engagement of users of this board
.
>Your concerns seem so removed from reality and seem to indicate that you want us to maintain some kind of safe space or information bubble tailored for a stereotypical American leftist.Same stuff. Immediate attempts at name calling.
>As others have pointed out there are dozens of sites like that.Such as? I haven't seen people reference it. I did see people reference going to reddit if they wanted to debate nazis.
Seeing the response from the mod
>>37894 made me realize that
>>37805 didn't miss. Based analysis/foresight
Also quite tragicomical that his effort-post was glossed over for porn and one-liner shitposting about IDpol for dozens of posts
>>37934This. If lines aren't drawn and the fat isn't cut the board will just keep dying. When we split from bunkerchan to leftypol we had around 5000 ips a week we are down to like 1200-1500. People left because the board became full of the most cynical contrarian posters and that's been tolerated to the point we are now where we have out in about fascist allowed to dominate threads.
>>37946Speaking of cynical posters
>>37778>If mods auto-remove this after leaving up a fucking race science thread they will have shown where their loyalties lie Did I miss something?
In any way, USSR had racial studies of its own, it did use the term "race", highlighting that pretending that racial differences do not exist only fuels the racism. Basically, if you abandon scientific racial studies you give it away to nazi scum to have a free reign over it - a disaster.
Soviet anthropologists have noted many times that while races exist this does not mean that some are superior than others whatsoever - races are just an objective biological reality to be scientifically studied like any other.
>>37955>reddit"leftist" communities on reddit are run by the us state department and specifically run by a small clique of feds to make them unproductive. The reddit administration regularly replaces whole sets of admins on big subreddits or outright ban subreddits that provide actual countermessaging. There are no actual communist subreddits and the nature of the site means they arent allowed to exist.
>reseteraA video game forum?
>hexbearI want a communist board not a "leftist" board. "leftism" doesn't actually exist.
The point is, leftypol right now does not make it clear what it is. Is *says* it will ban bad faith nazis, but it doesn't actually. It *says* this:
>An important part of /leftypol/’s unique character is our opposition to identity politics. We believe that conflicts between genders, races, sexualities, and so on are distractions from the wider class struggle that are intentionally fanned by the ruling class. This does not mean that oppression based on personal characteristics does not exist, but that it should be approached from an egalitarian perspective which is not personally accusatory and does not assign ‘victim’ and ‘oppressor’ groups. The rights of individuals to live according to their own wishes is a fundamental part of leftism.But people saying shit along the lines of "fucking white people" or "fucking third worldist jealous boohoo" arent banned.
So this is a call to the mods to set a clear line. What is the line. Because the line in the rules and minifesto of the site simply are not enforced. And if the line is to allow such things, then so be it, at least we know and we can plot our own path as individual posters from thereon out towards other places, perhaps (but unlikely) those you posted.
>>37944???
debate between radically opposed views is literally useless. in the past some sites were built around the debates that are actually useful, that's why I put debate in quotation marks, because I don't consider social media debates worthy of the word. for example, two coworkers discussing which javascript framework to use for their next project is a debate because it is going to have good faith arguments made by people that are knowledgeable on the subject, and it will produce actionable conclusions. a nazi arguing with a social democrat on reddit about "which political system is better" is the opposite. the more opposed the views, the less it can be considered a debate
the regular public wants hugboxes because they feel good and produce average to good outcomes for them. social media prefers these fake debates because they hook people, it is a way of hacking the brain of your audience so to speak, into an endless cycle of "anti-content". I call it that because it is the opposite of content, and the annihilate on contact. this is, nowadays you can kill any useful content just by not curating it
>>37963 (me)
>>37961Oops greentexted my response.
>>37958>Did I miss something?Check the H1B thread in the catalog. Basically Musk came out in support for work visas for indian techbros and pol had a meltdown having felt that based tesla hitler betrayed them, so they raided that thread qith racist posts.
Nothing that would warrant OP declaring this a crisis imo. Just regular poltard shit.
>>37971ratt, if you want to have a good faith conversation about this then we can talk in the matrix about site governance instead of dragging this dirty laundry all over the first page of /leftypol/ where the users will have to be subjected to it instead of normal content.
Mods are slowly working their way through that h1b thread and a ton of the soyjak/pol crossposters have already been banned.
>>37972>Ban posters that defend China & SMO? That was totally worth a thread.Maybe if you read what I wrote instead of strawmanning it this would be a better discussion.
The mods need to make the line clear, because they don't even enforce their own rules. So they have to tell us what views arent and are allowed, clearly, and act on that.
That is seperate from my personal opinion that Dengists is not a form a communism, or that defending russia is a non-marxist position that ought not be tolerated. Let alone people outright spewing race essentialism like is allowed to be done now so long as the poster are some colour different than pink.
If the mods say, "yes, we are going to allow all of the above", and they actually enact it, at least it will be clear, and I can stop hoping the rules as they stand now will be enforced and i can stop hoping for a discussionboard with people whom I consider communists.
>>37973>if you want to have a good faith conversation about this then we can talk in the matrix about site governance instead of dragging this dirty laundry all over the first page of /leftypol/ where the users will have to be subjected to it instead of normal content.What dirty laundry? All that was brought up was the reason for the split with leftypol and someone else brought up che banned pro rojava posting. Both public knowledge.
I think this discussion is fine publically, especially given I am not a moderator anymore and effectively just an eceleb shamelessly namefagging at this point.
>>37975>>37976I think we've been more than fair considering most of the bans are short term and only obvious sharty-shit and outright /pol/ racism.
there's nothing wrong with discussing immigration and I also don't believe in banning people based on my personal politics but rather trying to have an objective state of rules which are voted on by all mods.
However you can't deny that thread devolved into outright racism at times with crossposters linking american renaissance and posting 4chan pajeet documentaries.
thats the sort of thing we should really all agree isn't good material.
>>37978If so you seem chill, but my experience with the more active mods is that they're pretty zealous in deleting anything that deviates too much from your average DSA member.
Tbqh I find any discussion on immigration fucking stupid as a communist. It's always either "immigration is good because it's good for the economy" or "immigration is bad because it's bad for the economy". There's no communist stance on bourgeois policy, lol.
>>37980thank you based xi poster for your wisdom
>>37982dear god no
Retards don't get that it's impossible to have large scale industry with an international division of labor that inherently tends to break down regional barriers while at the same time demanding to live in seclusion where everyone is the same race/ethnicity.
>>37966>>37958The irony of invoking science, which refutes (not just disputes but outright refutes) biological race as having any verifiable existence, in order to indulge in racism. Welcome to leftypol, where every Wikipedia-scrolling mouthbreather is a scientist.
>>37974>"someone else brought up che banned pro rojava posting."That was me and this isn't dirty laundry this is shit anyone that's been here long enough knows. This is a cop out half measure to sweep issues many people have been bringing up under the rug and wish it away. Funny how when the bunkerchan split happened many of the leftypol mods were fine with posting about it on the front page without taking it to Matrix.
Taking this to meta is a fucking insult and it's obvious that trying to have a dialog with mods about this is a waste of time.
>>37998What's your issue exactly? Is OP angry at rojava posters, at Russia supporters, China supporters, all of the above?
Idk, I'm in favor of baiting to get homophobic, racist, or otherwise replies and banning people. I can't spend basically anytime here anymore except for drive by posting, reading news, and reading major events threads.
>>37996Sorry if it's "idpol" and makes you feel attacked or whatever but there are in fact sections of the proletariat that experience unique forms of oppression that other sections of the proletariat do not because of things like racism, patriarchy and homophobia that arise from class but are not totally synonymous with class. Pretending like that isn't the case to mollify the feelings of straight white male proles and collapsing literally any kind of discussion of these issues into the same "liberal idpol" category is fucking dishonest and it's reactionary. Identity related bigotry exists and it makes the lives of sections of the proletariat materially worse. You can address those bigotries in ways which are not liberal but nobody in the anti-idpol crowd ever seems to have any interest in doing that. There is no recognition that Marxist feminism and liberal feminism or Communist gay lib and liberal gay lib might be substantively different. Mention any of these sectional issues as if they are worth discussing as more than a footnote and you must just be a tumblr radlib who thinks class struggle is irrelevant.
And it goes along with a really blinkered view of the history and present of socialist organizing. Most Communist parties historically have been a lot closer to the "idpol" (broadly defined in the dishonest way you people do) position on women and race than not. And in other cases it's the opposite, Communist parties were uniquely horrible on gay rights until the 90s almost overwhelmingly and in some cases even into the 2000s or today. If just saying "hey maybe struggle for gay rights can go along with the class struggle even if it only finds its ultimate fulfillment in the end of class society" is liberal then how are we supposed to critically discuss that history and make sure it doesn't happen again? And it's disconnected from the present of socialist organizing because if you join almost any irl Communist org from any tendency, ironically including anti-idpol ones, it's going to have a massively disproportionate amount of people from the groups we're talking about. So the idea that if someone treats a specifically black or women's or gay or trans issue as if it is worth addressing that they must be some lib who is not doing anything is just bullshit.
>>38004racism sexism homophobia is idpol
defending yourself or your friends or other groups is NOT idpol
>>37949>"a flaw in moderation which will be fixed because the mods are on my side"I think the exact opposite. I think they are letting the board go to shit on purpose to purge Marxists-Leninists because too many MLs got tired of being trolled by radlib ultras with jannies behind them that they started responding to everythings with "Stalin did nothing wrong" because when you take the time to explain with quotes from Marx or Lenin they plug their ears and run away. It is exactly as bad as trying to appeal to mods on a non-political forum where the status quo is predominantly upheld and expecting them to understand theory.
They pretty much completely stopped responding to feedback after crashing the site.
Oh and just to be clear the split is about campism and minority rights, and their analysis is completely wrong. They are hiding behind anti-campism to pretend their analysis doesn't start with idealism, as if human rights come from having the correct ideas fall out of the sky instead of being dependent on a certain level of material development and the social relations that come from that. The absolute worse are the race baiters who try to pretend like national self determination is advocating "brown capitalism" and they should be permabanned.
hopefully im wrong and those jannies just quit and arent coming back
>>37974>That is seperate from my personal opinionI agree there should be a line. China and Russia might be edge cases but people should not be allowed to call the Palestinian resistance class collaborating fascists.
>>37934As I said before, the problem with this is with administration. There are mods who mistakenly think advocating for the right of nations to self determination is reactionary/bourgeois nationalism and have banned for it before. We can't have a united front of non-sectarian "lines" if the administration is lacking in even the basics and completely undermines it. I honestly think its because they are being overly cautious because they are closer to the type of people
>>37941 who would previously be banned for idpol. They don't really understand or have a hard hitting dialectical and materialist analysis on minorities that demands support for them by universalizing their problems back into the class war, like wrapping up gay/women issues into universal free healthcare or how immigrant rights benefits all workers by creating a wage floor and instead just want to police language and make people feel safe even if they are liberal and wrong.
>>37904You mean "anyone over the age of ten"
>>37994I always thought communism was leftist
>>38004nah youre stupid af and a boogie who just wants to alleviate the "evils" of capitalism. theres more in common between literally any single immiserated proletarian than a prole and middle classer that happen to share race sex w/e
>le historical communist position on women and raceoh you mean communists denouncing feminism and black power as interclassist opportunists even a century ago? really showed me!
>>38004like i repeatedly get called a fed for calling out obvious lib bullshit like this LMFAO
>If just saying "hey maybe struggle for gay rights can go along with the class struggle even if it only finds its ultimate fulfillment in the end of class society" is liberal lol sure if you can benefit from voting then you clearly are not proletarian rofl, stop obfuscating reality by pissing your pants
the whole point of rights is rewarding model citizens of bourgeois society moron
>>38035Where did I even halfway imply that I see some commonality of interests between a petit bourgeoisie woman and a proletarian woman? You are proving my point about anti-idpol posters dishonestly equating any discussion or activism around these issues with the liberal version of that discussion/activism.
>communists denouncing feminism and black powerThe vast majority of Communist parties supported black power, including the CPUSA at its height. It was DeLeonists who saw black power and white power as synonymous and they are not even Marxists. And Marx and Engels themselves were feminists lol, read what they wrote on the woman question or read The Origin of the Family.
>>37894>Secondly, I feel like alot of you have gotten soft, when /leftypol/ was on 8chan there would be fascist crossposting posting their I Q memes and anti semitic schizo graphs all the time. They would be refuted pretty promptly. HAHAHA THANK GOD WE HAVE SOME OTHER VETERANS HERE WHO REMEMBER WHAT IT USED TO BE LIKE.
BASED OLDFAG MOD.
ALL HAIL CYBERBARBARIAN FOR REMEMBERING WHAT 8CHAN LEFTYPOL WAS LIKE.
comrade rat is a RAT and should be disposed of like the Redditor plant that he is. Everyone who's been with /leftypol/ from the start knows that people screaming for a hugbox and all dissenters to be banned are the ones who are least able to defend their positions. Just look at this shit:
>>37934>Is magacom allowed? Is dengism allowed? Is third worldist idpol allowed? Is 'support russia in their noble struggle against ukraines genocide' allowed?This Uyghur LITERALLY WANTS TO BAN EVERY OPINION HE DISAGREES WITH AND IS MAD THAT OTHER MODS ARE HOLDING THE LINE AGAINST HIS AUTISM. KILL THIS UYGHUR FOR HAVING THE AUDACITY TO SUGGEST THIS SHIT.
>>37894>Secondly, I feel like alot of you have gotten soft, when /leftypol/ was on 8chan there would be fascist crossposting posting their I Q memes and anti semitic schizo graphs all the time. They would be refuted pretty promptly. As annoying as fascists are if this means less zealous moderation then I'm all for it.
>>38038The whole point of activism as a term is remaining outside the class struggle.
>>38049I never supported interclassism even once. Read this post again
>>38004My whole fucking point is that there are forms of feminism, gay lib and racial minority politics that are not interclassist but that that is not recognized by anti-idpol types. No matter how anyone talks about these issues you accuse anyone who wants them to be more than an irrelevant footnote of being interclassist liberals who love elections and bourgeoise democracy.
>>38051its not hairsplitting when we have people like you praising organization in the abstract instead of speaking about strictly proletarian organizing
>>38052no there are not. all proletarians have the same needs and interests, irrespective of race, gender, geographical location, etc, while diff sections of bourgeois society have different interests because of their different forms of property and reserves which leads them to compete against one another along different lines. insofar as proletarians compete against one another and divide themselves along arbitrary lines, they do so at their own expense as a class
>>38073>abolishing class society isnt in the interest of all proletarians, see some like a different soda brand or movie or whateveryou are very smart
<implying im a stalinist or whatever ideology market shit you personally dislikeimbecile
>>38079>see some like a different soda brand or movie or whateverA trans prole not having access to HRT or a gay prole not having access to PrEP is literally the difference between life or death, no different than a diabetic prole not having access to insulin. Saying it is the equivalent of liking a different brand of soda is homophobia/transphobia plain and simple.
And nobody in this entire thread has said that abolishing class society isn't in the interest of all proletarians lol. You are repeatedly doing what I said that anti-idpol posters do, which is dishonestly misrepresent any Communist who takes minority issues seriously as a liberal reformist.
>>38085im just pointing out that the specific issues you are talking about are used to divide the working class because of the popularity of a universal free healthcare program which would solve all those things but you would rather take the bait and put them front and center just to lose on misguided principles instead.
race gender orientation etc are real but mediated through class dynamics, to address minority oppression you have to have solutions that address the root cause
>>38088I didn't say put them front and center you fucking brainlet retard, can you stop strawmanning for one goddamn second?
>race gender orientation etc are real but mediated through class dynamicsQuote me saying anything else. I specifically said that homophobia, patriarchy and transphobia do not exist apart from class but that didn't stop you from you from strawmanning me as some resist lib a dozen more times after that.
>to address minority oppression you have to have solutions that address the root causeWhich is why you incorporate these things into the class struggle. Patriarchy, homophobia, racism and transphobia cannot be solved under capitalism, which is why bourgeoise anti-racism, LGBT activism and feminism are wrong (besides interclassism and other issues ofc). What can definitely happen since we've seen it happen a ton of fucking times is that a socialist revolution can adopt a reactionary line on these sectional issues after it wins. You prevent that by not treating the physical survival of a specific section of the proletariat as as irrelevant as the difference between coke and pepsi now, under capitalism.
>>38089Still no explanation of why it's liberalism for the Communist party to focus on issues that are not universal. You're a dogmatist fucking retard, you memorized a position you cannot explain in your own words and you just parrot it.
>>38091Then what the fuck have you been calling me a lib for for half the thread? I said a million goddamn times that I am not supporting voting, liberal activism, elctoralism, reformism, or interclassism. What I am arguing against is the idea that sectional issues like racism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia are irrelevant and that anyone expecting the Communist party to address them at all is a lib. What you will end up with if you take that approach, whether you mean to or not, is tailism and a reactionary line on these sectional issues after the revolution (assuming you get that far). Your response was 50 fucking strawmen, saying that being trans is just as significant as a choice between brands, and some retarded claim you can't even explain or defend that the party can only address universal issues. Fucking neck yourself.
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