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File: 1778355844349.png (195.29 KB, 594x618, HH3D6dTWQAIrJaE.png)

 

Why are Stalinists like this?

File: 1778355968553.png (1.65 MB, 1430x2048, stalin spoonfool.png)


He's right on the last post. Stalin's retarded decisions wasnt some mad despot plotting, it was politburo consensus.

>>781032
Stalin literally killed like half the politburo

Do they know how signatures work?
You sign off on a document that is handed to you.

The executions were ordered by the politburo, he signed them because his job was *gasp* general secretary

>>781039
>The executions were ordered by the politburo
The politburo ordered to have themselves all killed?

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>>781021
If you would please consult the graph:

its hard to defend the murder of all the old bolsheviks isnt it

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>>781055
it's hard to not repeat trite myths innit

>>781066
They all died before stalin had the the chance to kill them lol

>>781034
Read Road to Terror by Getty. There was never a point in which the purges targeted a majority. It was always, every step of the way, a majority agreeing to repress a minority, even if what was in the minority changed over time.

This shit isn't even worth debating.

>>781072
Does your brain make a sloshing sound when you walk around?

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>>781072
Yeah because theres nothing stalinoids can say to defend the killings of so many marxists for no other reason than to satiate a paranoid lunatics lust for power

>>781071
>There was never a point in which the purges targeted a majority.
Uhh ofcourse, and? What was the politburo going to vote to have themselves all shot?

>>781076
Maybe you should read the post I was replying to before you comment.

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>>781074
>>781075
>Come back and seriously debate my bad faith shit-stirring O-or you're a brainlet that can't defend muh gorillions!
<doesn't even begin to address the images posted or any of the arguments made by others ITT.
Projecting hard I see. Go back to /pol/ liberal, your bait sucks.

>>781081
How does stalin killing them slowly one by one instead of them all at once dispute what the poster said?

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>>781083
NTA but take your meds you actual schizo.

>>781082
>>Come back and seriously debate my bad faith shit-stirring O-or you're a brainlet that can't defend muh gorillions
Funny how nobody even mentioned any muh gorillions dead and were instead only talking about the multitute of marxists that stalin ended up killing. And you have literally no cope or excuses for people like bukharins deaths, so you desperately try to strawman.

stalin was a lamb compared with lenin

>>781089
How so?

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>>781085
>N-nobody mentioned
Fuck off with this hair-splitting nonsense.
>the marxists stalin ended up killing
<a vague unspecific claim
<proceeds to ignore the posts demonstrating this to be untrue
>No cope
I don't cope because I'm not an idealogue like you. Bukharin was tried and executed by the Troika, that Stalin had no authority over, you absolute ignoramus.

Nobody is strawmanning, that's not what that even means, you're just spewing buzzwords you read on reddit without understand what they mean.

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>>781085
>>781092
Actually, you know what. while you may be a cretin of titanic proportions, I would rather other people not read your shit and think it correct somehow.

Here, a post I wrote on Bukharin back in the old days when this place was still bunkerchan:

Bukharin wasn't purged for no reason, he had his own clique and was in the works with Trotskyites. At first he was simply dismissed from the party but when later readmissioned in 1933 back, he continued and still planned to bring back capitalist relations in the Soviet Union using imperialist powers to undermine the union. Stalin did not allow prosecution of his comrades without a legitimate reason to do so, don't play into the anti-soviet and Trotskyite nonsense. There were some things overdone during the purge by Yezhov (and NKVD) but Bukharin was not one of them, so was not Tukhachevsky.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bukharin/works/1938/trial/1.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bukharin/works/1938/trial/index.htm

https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/trotskyvol2_appendix.pdf - page 18 is the letter of Serov (nkvd )regarding the Bukharin case.
More so, Bukharin was rehabilitated not once and not twice but multiple times for his views which he himself has acknowledged and for which he was accepted back.
Now the "conspiracy" is not a baseless accusation made by the "Stalinist" opportunists in order to justify execution of the old bolshevik member, even during Lenin he wanted to make a deal with SRs against Bolsheviks way after, in 1956 the document has a review of Bukharin's case:
“I must admit that we had direct contact with the “Left” Socialist-Revolutionaries which was based on a platform of the violent overthrow of the Soviet government, headed by LENIN, STALIN and SVERDLOV, to be followed by the arrests of LENIN, STALIN and SVERDLOV and the creation of a new government of the “Left” Communists and “Left” SRs.”(Arch. case number 967582, vol. 5, l.d. 122)
The question of BUKHARIN’s collusion with the “Left” SRs was under investigation even before the arrest of BUKHARIN, during which the latter categorically denied that he had ever had any criminal ties with the “Left” SRs. Atthe confrontation with the arrested ASTROV which took place on January 13, 1937 at the Central Committee of the CPSU(b), BUKHARIN answered a question of J.V. STALIN’s thus:
“What's the point of my lying about the Brest peace? Once the Left SRs came and said, “Let us form a cabinet. We will arrest of LENIN and form a cabinet.” Afterwards I told this to Ilyich. “Give me your word that you will not mention this to anyone,” Ilyich said. Then, when I was fighting alongside you against TROTSKY, I cited this as an example: Look, this is what factional struggle leads to. At that time it was a bombshell.”
But Bukharin lied here because it makes no sense that he told that to Lenin and Lenin didn't use it against SRs after the revolts and kept quiet about it. Therefore the conclusion is that Lenin didn't know about the collusion and that Bukharin was simply trying to create the follower of Lenin persona and that they were so close that Lenin forgave him even when he plotted to arrest them and get rid of revolution.
But should Bukharin be read and studied, yes we should understand him as an ally and one which has always played in between, as did Trotsky. What Soviet experiment also showed in 90s is that the conflict and tension is always present to revert back. The forces of reaction did what Bukharin and other rightists tried to do, we must keep this in mind as a lesson but be pragmatic but also be wary and never keep our guard down.
Additional resource: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1937/03/03.htm
Russian readings and sources:
https://remi-meisner.livejournal.com/214842.html(blog post of a very well read modern Russian Marxist)
http://old.memo.ru/history/1937/feb_mart_1937/index.htm
http://istmat.info/node/46740

>>781092
>Troika, that Stalin had no authority over
LMAO
Yeah he didnt have any power at all over the nkvd he just chose and fired its leaders as he pleased

>>781094
how can you believe those fabricated testimonies obtained trough torture? How fucking convenient that every single person executed was secretely a trotsykist or nazi spy and how fucking convenient that every single person executed happened to be a threat to stalins power or his allies or were just personally disliked by stalin and his clique were all secretely bought out and working for the cia/mossad/nazis/trotsky

>>781021
>Allied with the krauts
street shitting jeet deserved it #HEILSTALIN

>>781083
Anon took issue with the post saying "it was politburo consensus" you retard. It was pollitburo consensus each time.

>>781097
>how fucking convenient that every single person executed happened to be a threat to stalins power or his allies or were just personally disliked by stalin and his clique
The great purges were not in the 1920s, they were in the 1930s, way after these groups lost their power and Stalin was the undisputed leader of the Party. Also, many of those executed were not at all disliked by Stalin. Stalin even argued in favor of re-instating people like Yenukidze, Bukharin was a friend of Stalin through the 1920s.

>>781101
Yeah most of them were just potential and imagined threats not actual threats yet they got killed anyway tons of people got killed for no reason too and were just added to the list fill a quota.

>>781105
>potential and imagined threats
The Bloc of Rights and Trotksyites was real tho.

>>781106
Yeah they use to but They had all been completely dealt with by the the time stalin started his purges it was all just chasing ghosts.

>>781107
If they were in fact organized opposition in the 1930s far after they claimed to dropped factionalism why should Stalin assume there was no underground oppositional activity by 1934? Even though Nikolayev claimed to have been operating as part of a group of Zinovievite oppositionists.

>>781109
>Stalin assume there was no underground oppositional activity by 1934?
Well if there was it was completely irrelevant and had no support anywhere.
Trotskyists were all either long dead or fled the ussr and the rightistists had been completely removed from any positions of power.
>Even though Nikolayev claimed to have been operating as part of a group of Zinovievite oppositionists.
The whole assasination was nothing more than a psy-op killing kirov gets the oppositon absolutely nothing out of all the people the opposition could've targeted they dont choose fucking stalin? And there were no nkvd guards guarding kirov either at the time of the assasination. And stalin immediately uses kirovs death to start straight up killing anyone anyone who didnt support him?
Literally the most convenient chain of events ever.

File: 1778373731081-0.png (765.11 KB, 856x1360, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1778373731081-2.pdf (2.41 MB, 197x255, losurdo stalin.pdf)

>>781096
>>781097
>I provide an argument
<more non-argument and hand-wringing.
I expected no better, and was still disappointed.

>The nkvd he just chose and fired its leaders as he pleased

As literally any SERIOUS historian on the Purges can tell you, Stalin was as much at risk at prosecution as anyone else.

>fabricated testimonies obtained trough torture

Where is your proof? I provided my sources, including primary ones, where are yours? What evidence of torture do you have?
Here's some more pics, links and files rel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBY_aDd5knE
https://archive.is/YSOMw

>convenient that every single person executed was secretely a trotsykist or nazi spy

Another vague non-argument that implies that because the vague possibility of innocent people being caught up in things means that all the executed were Victims of Communism *cough* I mean, victims of Stalin!
>a threat to stalins power
Ah yes, the power that he attempted to Step down from 4 separate times. The 5th Column was provably real and provably heavily impacted, demonstrated by the fact that German spy networks and diversions lacked information or connections to sabotage Soviet war efforts properly. The same applied to Britain and France and any other enemy countries.

<"Communism under Stalin has produced the most valiant fighting army in Europe. Communism under Stalin has provided us with examples of patriotism equal to the finest annals of history. Communism under Stalin has won the applause and admiration of all the Western nations. Communism under Stalin has produced the best generals in this war. I was always impressed by Lincoln's answer when Grant was charged with taking too much drink. Persecution of Christianity? Not so. There is no religious persecution. The church doors are open. And there is complete freedom to practice religion, just as there is complete freedom to reject it. Racial persecution? Not at all. Jews live like other men. There are many races in the Soviet Union and not even a color bar. Political purges? Of course. But it is now clear that the men who were shot down would have betrayed Russia to her German enemy."

  • Opportunity to Win War in 1942; A SECOND FRONT IN EUROPE TO AID RUSSIA By LORD BEAVERBROOK, Britain's Lease-Lend Coordinator in Washington, Delivered before the Bureau of Advertising of the American Newspaper Publishers Association, April 23, 1942
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1942/1942-04-23b.html

TL;DR: read a book you liberal faggot.

>>781123
>As literally any SERIOUS historian on the Purges can tell you, Stalin was as much at risk at prosecution as anyone else.
And yet he wasnt and never did suffer any threat how convenient that nigh everyone who opposed him did.
>Where is your proof? I provided my sources, including primary ones, where are yours?
Yeah directly from the soviet state secreteriat of propaganda lmao
https://www.marxists.org/archive/khrushchev/1956/02/24.htm
You can read all his terrible deeds straight from primary source too
>Another vague non-argument that implies that because the vague possibility of innocent people being caught up in things means that all the executed were Victims of Communism *cough* I mean, victims of Stalin!
Most were innocents look at what happened 3 seconds after his death his actions in killing so many people and innocents ended up creating an opposition to him that didnt exist before an then took power after his death.
>Ah yes, the power that he attempted to Step down from 4 separate times
Thats like mark antony offering the crown to ceaser how are stalinoids this easily fooled by propaganda lmao.
>5th Column was provably real and provably heavily impacted
The 5th column was never real and only innocents were impacted.
>TL;DR: read a book you liberal faggot
You should read something thats not propaganda in order for you to cope about your great leader and his idelogy and country all being dead due to his actions. And stalin was literally a liberal aswell as a zionist.

>>781123
>literally ANY serious historian
<posts losurdo
whats next, grover furr?

>>781127
>and yet *baseless speculation with no actual fact*

>soviet state secreteriat of propaganda

<Khruschev's 1956 secret speech that was literally debunked as a political hit piece after Stalin's death
<A hit piece that doesn't actually specify anything and without a single document of proof just says "Stalin did le bad things", just like you are now.
LOL, LMAO even.
>Most were innocents
No they were not. I provided sources, you provided an opinion piece.
>mark antony offering the crown to ceaser
  1. It's Caesar, you absolute illiterate ape
  2. That's not even close to the same thing on any level. Not to mention again, Stalin wanted to step down 4 times, including when he was old and completely tired, either he had absolute power and therefore this was unnecessary or he was not in fact as all powerful as you claim.
>the 5th column was never real
<only innocents were impacted
Yeah okay at this point I know you're baiting. The very existence of the OUN UPA and White Guard movement in Canada makes you laughable.
>read something thats not propaganda
Getty and Naumov are both non-communists you absolute retarded faggot. Michael Parenti has criticisms of the USSR as does Remi-Meisner. You're not even reaching for straws, you're just outright being retarded.

> his idelogy and country all being dead due to his actions. And stalin was literally a liberal aswell as a zionist

Great talk. Now go back to school, your writing is elementary school level at best.

https://www.idcommunism.com/2016/08/the-remorse-of-dissident-alexander.html

>>781129
Not an argument.

>>781132
>and yet *baseless speculation with no actual fact*
Thats all accusations of tratitorship by stalib during the purges are
>I provided sources, you provided an opinion piece.
You dont have sources other propaganda from the state or opinion pieces agreeing with the propaganda
>That's not even close to the same thing on any level. Not to mention again, Stalin wanted to step down 4 times, including when he was old and completely tired
It was all theaterics and used to test the loyalty of the party members anyone who wanted to accept would be shot.
>Getty and Naumov are both non-communists you absolute retarded faggot. Michael Parenti has criticisms of the USSR as does Remi-Meisner.
How does that make them not retarded?
>Now go back to school
You first. go look at the map and try to find the soviet union on it.
>OUN UPA and White Guard movement in Canada
Yeah in fucking canada not the ussr and the purges primary targets and victims were all communists

>>781114
>nothing more than a psy-op
Source: Alexander Orlov

>>781134
Its all just way too fucking convenient for stalin and the opposition gained nothibg from his death.

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>>781136
>Its all just way too fucking convenient for stalin
That a staunch ally popular in the former Zinovievite stronghold of Leningrad was eliminated?
>the opposition gained nothibg from his death
Because they got smashed. Is that really evidence? Was the Gunpower Plot a psyop because it led to the conspirators getting executed?
Like really, just read Road to Terror with a LITTLE BIT of charity towards the Soviet Union and I think you will have a much less silly understanding of this topic.

>>781137
>That a staunch ally popular in the former Zinovievite stronghold of Leningrad was eliminated?
No the fact that nobody except stalin benefited from kirovs death except stalin.
>Because they got smashed. Is that really evidence? Was the Gunpower Plot a psyop because it led to the conspirators getting executed?
It just doesnt make any sense why after surrendering to the government the rightists woulf all decide to collectively commit suicide by just deciding to kill kirov which gets them nothing instead of killing stalin.
The killer was clearly a lone wolf actor who stalin then blamed the murder on rightists as an excuse to finally get an excuse to eliminate them all

>>781034
No. Stalin never waged war on half the politburo, he would be dead before Trotsky if he did this.
He skillfully used factions A and B against C. Then faction A and the remnants of C against B. And finally A would be a lone and concede by themselves.

You hate him because he was good at the game.

The Stalinists obviously were anticommunist and in order to hide this fact they pretended to be fanatical and acted violent and psychotic to distract from their scamming and exploitation. The far right is also like this, all the yapping about genociding minorities and overturning the world order to distract the fact that they are just cucks for the ruling class.

>>781186
moralist retard rightists where stupid retards and thus deserved it who cares wether they killed kirov not implying staliniods are much better

>>781099
Is nobody paying attention to the fact that he's a filthy fucking shitskin jeet uyghur? He's LITERALLY Indian. He's evil. Stalin did the right thing. HEIL HITLER. HEIL STALIN. HEIL MAO.

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>>781199
>muh not reel socializm!
Put on the rainbow-capitalist flag and don't pretend you're anything but a liberal.

>>781228
Go to the Gulag with your liberal pals.


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