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File: 1783552362664-1.webp (8.71 KB, 180x302, 180-2153261499.webp)

 

Was Jesus Christ a real person or was he made up? Serious question.

im pretty sure there is actual documentation of him existing. idk thoe i might be wrong

It's difficult to pinpoint if the man himself was real

To get this point across: there is barely any archaeological evidence that corroborates with Jesus in particular

Now Pontius Pilate, another character in the New Testament, did exist and he can be corroborated with the Pilate Stone but as far as Jesus goes, it's moreso trusting the Bible on what it has to say about him than anything else.

>>803513
There isn't really much to go off of to be frank if actually look into this stuff

File: 1783557801917-2.webp (24.24 KB, 370x284, IMG_8429.webp)

I think he was a real man who was killed for being a socialist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_for_the_historicity_of_Jesus i havent read any of it but its probably interesting

Now yes there is some documentation extrabiblically that may support his existence and that is, basically, Tacitus

However he's basically a source of a source.. of a source, so, yeeeeah

Ultimately we just can't know, to be fair

(Unless you were there in person)

File: 1783558276092-2.png (Spoiler Image,2.85 MB, 1062x1514, proof_of_jesus.png)

>>803525
i was there in person. this is my proof

>>803522
No, he was a schizoid mamzer who managed to piss off both the Jews and the Romans. Rest in piss.

>>803527
He was probably crazy but he was a socialist and a force for good, that is why they killed him, don’t play into the meme of leftist hating religion

>>803529
>don’t play into the meme of leftists being against one of the largest forms of oppression in history
youre either a lib, a fed or just retarded. sorry Thomas

>>803529
>socialist
Incorrect. You need capitalism for socialism to exist. Socialism is not "sharing is caring".

>>803537
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894/early-christianity/index.htm

>If, therefore, Prof. Anton Menger wonders in his Right to the Full Product of Labour why, with the enormous concentration of landownership under the Roman emperors and the boundless sufferings of the working class of the time, which was composed almost exclusively of slaves, “socialism did not follow the overthrow of the Roman Empire in the West,” it is because he cannot see that this “socialism” did in fact, as far as it was possible at the time, exist and even became dominant – in Christianity.

>>803513
Jesus was supposedly crucified between 30 and 40 CE. The Second Temple and Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans around 70 CE. The gospels were first written by Greek-speaking well-educated aristocratic Early Christians after 70 CE. Christian tradition attributes these gospels to the apostles of Jesus: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, four of his twelve followers. But secular scholars of Early Christianity have no strong evidence that this was the case. The archeological evidence points to the gospels being written after Titus destroyed Jerusalem. The first non-Christian writers to talk about Christianity were Tacitus (Roman) and Josephus (a Jew adopted by Titus Flavius who wrote "Anitquities of the Jews"). Tacitus and Josephus were both writing after 70 CE and have very little to say about Christianity, but Tacitus mentions Christians causing trouble in the Roman empire, and Josephus mentions Jesus who was crucified.

Now if Jesus was a real historical person, his name would have been Yeshua, not Jesus. He would have spoken Aramaic, not Hebrew or Latin. If he were really a traveling preacher and carpenter from Galilee he would have been seen as a bit of a rural bumpkin by the people in Jerusalem where he was crucified. It is unlikely he or his 12 followers were literate, which explains the gospels being passed down as oral tradition until they were written decades later. He was he would have been one of several Messiah claimants at the time. It was not uncommon for Jewish men to claim to be the Messiah. What makes Jesus unique is that he was not a military messiah. most messiahs claimants preached against Roman occupation, and many even took up arms. There was a Rebellion led by Judas of Galilee when the Historical Jesus (if he existed) would have still been a child. So it was not uncommon at all. Another thing that is unique is that his message was surprisingly less hostile to Roman occupation than others at the time. This is why he is depicted sometimes as having been killed by "The Jews" rather than the Romans. However, make no mistake, the gospels describe a guy who is tortured by the Romans, executed by order of Pontius Pilate, and merely jeered at and rejected by the Jewish people of Jerusalem, and the Pharisee leadership there, rather than "The Jews" in general. See, Jesus would have been see as Jewish by other Jews, rather than creating a new religion. There was several competing versions of Judaism at the time: Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, and Essenes. Zealots were the most anti-Roman, and Essenes were the most hermit and rural. The dead sea scrolls probably come from Essene cave hermits.

The consensus among secular scholars is that there was a historical Jesus, but there is no evidence for the supernatural claims. The idea is he was an apocalyptic preacher preaching against the sinfulness of the people of Jerusalem, and declaring that the city would be destroyed within their lifetimes. He did this very loudly on passover, which is a holy day, which triggered his arrest, got him brought before the governor, tortured, and crucified. This got passed down as an oral tradition, exaggerated, and eventually made into a religion.

Some hypothesize Christianity was created by the Flavians as a pacifistic and pro-Roman version of Judaism, to better control rebellions in the region. But if that is true, it backfired massively, since it took over the empire eventually.

>>803522
where do people get this stuff. the most socialistic verses in the new testament don't come from Jesus himself but from the book of Acts. Jesus cast the moneylenders out of the temple, but that was more about profaning a holy place. He did not preach armed rebellion, but preached turning the other cheek, loving your persecutor, etc. Do socialist turn the other cheek and love their persecutors? No, they take up armed rebellion. The sicarii rebels and zealots actually fought Roman occupation.

>>803523
the key sources, both non-christian (tacitus, josephus) and christian (the gospels) all come from after the year 70 when conveniently jerusalem was already destroyed by the romans, making jesus's prophecy of the destruction of jerusalem a retrofitted prophecy

>>803538
I disagree with marx here. there is far more militant socialism in the slave rebellions of spartacus and eunus than there is in the (much later) pacifistic sharing of christians


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