/siberia/ - Off-topic

one of the fundamental tasks of political management is finding a way to disengage them from politics or force them to engage exclusively on other issues. you can make an intellectual case for basically any mode of economic organisation (and competing cases can be strengthened through debate, in theory.) while social conservatism is just low-openness personality flaws suited only to the pursuit of stagnation and oppression.

There will always be people who are social conservatives relative to the times though

>>804675
Conservatism is a relative thing.
What is considered conservative in this century would be considered liberal in any previous century

>>804725
yeah but you can always judge people relative to society as a whole / by direction of travel. (this is one reason measuring and judging someone's openness-to-experience is helpful, because while the most liberal victorians would on average still be conservative by modern standards, they would be unusually open-minded for their time and place.)

>>804725
If we go by centuries yes but LGBT acceptance is notably worse now than it was 10 years ago

>>804728
Progressives pushed too hard too fast. And messed with the bread & circus ie the media and culture that normies consume and started blatantly including queer stuff in media and culture.
They basically ended up activating tons of sleeper reactionaries as in people who still held bigoted beliefs but had no reason really to act upon them before.

very uncool

>>804731
Obviously some liberal types are just idpol demons that just make everyone hate "the left", but I really think it's mostly that people have been radicalised into hating queers by deranged social media filth

>>804731
tbh i don't buy this, most of the stuff you see people getting ragebaited isn't real for any practical sense. i think the reason for the reaction is twofold

1. right-wing ragebait is much more accessible and entertaining these days. as a purely illustrative example: 4chan's /v/ is not a board for people who play games, but a board for people who get mad about games. they will say they spend more time being mad than playing games because games have got worse, but this isn't credible - if it was true and playing games was really their preference they'd be over on /vr/. no, the problem is that getting mad is more appealing than playing games and not being mad.
   
2. 5 as a result the market for things that make you mad is much bigger. here's what some random nobody on twitter said! here's what an indian with chatGPT straight up invented whole cloth!
   
3. the market for entertainers-as-politicians has expanded in tandem with this, appealing to the same demography as right-wing ragebait, hence Trump, Farage, etc.
   
   

this also underpins the obvious shift from elections being valence contests (e.g. will Bush or Gore be more competent as president?) to "smart vs dumb" contests. (Trump has never won college educated voters, while Bush won them in 2000. The single strongest predictor of voting Reform is having a low education level, and so on.) smarter/more educated people still treat politics as this serious ideological thing, while for dumber/less educated people it's basically entertainment. The anti-LGBT backlash thus isn't ideological or in response to any real issue, but is instead pushed because it entertains the prejudices of those who back it.

a side example to this: japan has a far-right anti-immigration party in parliament despite having negligible immigration rates, while UK labour is polling dismally despite cutting immigration dramatically. this is hard to explain if you adopt the "there was too much immigration, it's a real issue" framework but trivial to explain if you go "people are voting for a vibe, not policy outcomes."

less autistically:
>>804743

>>804753
p.s. i wrote "1, 1.5, 2." and the board automatically made it "1-2-3", that's why my "twofold" explanation has 3 points.

to further develop on this: contra the theory that the dumber end of Bush voters were manipulated by Fox news into backing him, i would argue that they would back the most right-wing candidate likely to win, and that was Bush at the time. similarly they watched the most right-wing-slop news easily available, which was Fox. then as the internet has developed and come into its own, Fox has been outcompeted by stronger stuff. similarly, college educated people have become substantially more liberal and even become outright socialists and communists, again in part because of the increased accessibility of information. (of course i would say they make use of higher-quality information. a documented phenomenon is that liberals read "respectable" right-wing news sites like the Wall Street Journal more than right-wingers do, because right-wingers generally do not read, they like audiovisual content. they want to be entertained and have their prejudices pandered to, not to think. meanwhile liberals and leftists love nothing more than pondering, that's what entertains them. that's what i'm doing right now!)

>>804675
>people are still doing the social vs fiscal conservative distinction even though it serves capital
>people are not fully thinking through the implication that liberal imperialists are the lesser evil when in reality they have made the entire third world associate first world "social liberalism" with the same bombs, coups, and sanctions that the "social conservatives" do.

ugh just shoot me

>>804731
>Progressives pushed too hard too fast.
wrong, they just failed to fight for the working class and anti-war crowd, which is why LGBT acceptance got associated with Obama drone striking Muslims, and Trump got to run as a peace dove even though evangelikkkal bush started the GWOT.
>>804725
>What is considered conservative in this century would be considered liberal in any previous century
I wonder what the Ancient Greeks got up to in their army tents

>>804675
Final solution would be medical intervention. Abort them before they are born.

>>804675
One Piece memes were infamously used by the Soros x CIA genZ brainrot coups in places like Nepal and probably Indonesia right now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Nepalese_Gen_Z_protests

conservative boomer W, I assume

Fucking WHERE in the West?
Don't tell me you're dumb enough to think that any country where OnlyFans, prostitution, and weed is legal can be "socially conservative".

>>804763

1. you are an idiot if you think (say) Obama's drone strikes or token interventionism in Libya and Syria are comparable to Trump kidnapping the fucking president of Venezuela and bombing Iran on a whim / at the open behest of Israel. Clearly, there's a correlation between "not socially liberal" and "openly sociopathic"
   
2. OP didn't say anything about fiscal conservatism or imply they were making use of that dichotomy.
   
3. The idea that such a banal distinction "serves capital" particularly on an irrelevant entertainment imageboard is asinine.
   
   

>>804778
Social conservatism is always riven with hypocrisies and is better understood as a disposition than as anything else.

>>804727
>>804679
It's very funny to frame peoples aversion to wages suppression via immigration, violent criminals, unpleasant and/or barbaric cultural practices as "low openness". These kinds of word games don't work anymore. They only work in a social environment where anyone who even slightly pushes back against them in polite society is ostracised, which doesn't happen anymore.

>>804764
>wrong, they just failed to fight for the working class and anti-war crowd
Most delusional talking point of all time award. Actually LGBT, well mostly T really, completely sabotaged itself by openly associating with leftist/communist bullshit. Gays did the same mistake in the 1970s/1980s with even more disastrous results.
If you want to do LGBT advocacy correctly you have to be as milquetoast and normie-compatible as possible outside of the specific thing you advocate for, here gay/trans acceptance. If you start behaving like a spaz political agitators for seemingly unrelated topics, especially the ones that goes against the interests of wathever state/national bourgeoisie you're living in, like meddling with geopol or social democracy people will associate you with political subvertion and rationaly throw the baby with the bathwater.
Do you think the CPC wouldnt crack ultra hard on LGBT in China if the average Chinese homosexual pushed for pro-uyghur stuff + anti-MLism? Obviously they would
I would say in general these unnatural merging of LGBT stuff with hard-left stuff always ends up mutually debasing: The far left stuff get derided as Gay which will make it unnapealing to normal men and the Gay stuff will get denounced as political terrorism.
LGBT acceptance was also it's highest during Obama's second term, which was the peak of girldboss LGBTQ israeli drone operator culture.
>>804778
While absolute ideals exist it is ultimately relative. Conservatives are fine with weed, adultery, feminism, immigration when it's "based", zionism and whoring yourself but not with trans or social democracy therefore this is what social conservatism is.

>>804728
How true is this? LGBT are still sympathized and their detractors get major humiliation.