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File: 1784629706551-9-0.mp4 (13.85 MB, 720x1280, 12345154.mp4)

File: 1784629706551-2-1.mp4 (16.69 MB, 720x1280, 23423462345.mp4)

 

Thoughts?

meow.meow.

Give me a tldr, I am not watching this braindead uyghur garbage as a matter of principle.

>>807127
Typical routine of chudslopers OWNING THE LIBS by asking whether Trump is a fascist to clueless midwits.

Y’know, like in those 2010s “SJWs wrecked” YouTube comps where they ask basic questions to morons and trying to paint said morons as representatives of the whole left (or at least what chuds think is the left).

Tbh the chud is kinda right.
Trump isn’t a fascist. It’s an empty slur throwing around.

Kinda like how the right refers to radlibs as “communists/socialists”

>>807132
Notice how the footage is edited

I bet they probably came across some people who did define fascism at least in a somewhat comprehensive way but chose to leave it out

>>807134
>Trump isn’t a fascist
He very clearly is, at this point I dont know how could you make an argument otherwise.

>>807141
You dont even know what facism means

>>807124
My thoughts are: every interviewed person in the second clip is hot as fuck and I would have sex with them if they were interested.

File: 1784648942348-2.jpg (15.23 KB, 330x384, Socrates-MLG-meme-9.jpg)

>>807124
This is a brilliant display of the Socratic dialectic and hopefully it gives motivation for people to think about what they believe and why.
>>807132
It's literally just a guy asking questions.
The error is on the side of those making positive judgements.
>>807141
What is fascism?

The clown girl is so cool

someone really ought to do event training where they explain that if you encounter one of these people, you should repeat their questions back to them in a confident tone that makes clear you're turning the question on the interviewer, then "why?" them to death if they answer.

>>807124
Including the woman who took a "fascism class" but can't define fascism is unfair. This is precisely what you'd pick up if you actually did take such a class and then tried to remember it (the conclusion will, inevitably be, "a fucking mess") and she doesn't say Trump is a fascist, she says we did not discuss that.

It's like this little bonus frame just to make it easy to illustrate that the video creator is acting in bad faith.

>>807134
if it's an empty slur, then Trump is a fascist, just like he's a faggot.

>>807141
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism
whichever one of these best applies to Trump

>>807182
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

>>807182
If Socrates could remove the people argumenting against him correctly from the theater (editing them out of the video) he would've creamed his pants

>>807198
>>807182
>What is fascism?
>whichever one of these best applies to Trump
Umbert Eco's is the one I would consider most accurate in catching the core of fascism so thats what I am going with. Any of the marxist ones would work as well, big problem with those is that they are biased towards the most well known succesfull 20th century fasist movements (did for example Romanian fascists had lot of support from finance capital? idk the point being they were indisputably fascist regardless).

>>807179
Feel free to provide what you would consider fascism.

>>807182
In an authentic "Socratic dialectic" you are supposed to make a statement in the form of a question and the other party just keeps agreeing with you.

>Socrates-MLG-meme-9.jpg

>>807199
I'm not sure why you assume that the average person is rational.
If the people just admitted to their ignorance, they would be liberated from their pride. There's nothing wrong with not knowing - Socrates himself claimed to know nothing; the issue is pretending to know.
>>807202
Wouldn't the best definition of fascism be that as outlined by ᴉuᴉlossnW and Gentile? They invented the term and described it in "The Doctrine of Fascism" (1932). They also invented the term "totalitarian" to describe themselves. Making "fascist" an adjective rather than a noun is the problem, since "fascist" becomes a synonym of "bad person", which is obviously incorrect, but this is how politics has become theological in the post-war era.

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File: 1784653887393-2-1.png (278.29 KB, 300x606, ClipboardImage.png)

>>807124
>Thoughts?
The clussy with her titties out and captain camel toe are hot. Damn that's a fat rabbit.

>>807202
>Any of the marxist ones would work as well, big problem with those is that they are biased towards the most well known succesfull 20th century fasist movements
the problem is that there is not a single fascism and most people who have heard about fascism can intuitively recognize it but fail hard at defining it because there's not a single *thing* that defines fascism. at any point i think the most salient characteristics is palingenesis, the myth of national rebirth, obsession with racial metaphysics and social hierarchy, glorification of violence as a means to achieve rejuvenation, i think that would cover most bases.

>>807134
I feel like the best way to consider if trump is a facist or not would be compare him to actual facists like ᴉuᴉlossnW and hitler.

>>807124
prove to me that these aren't paid actors. you can't. prove to me that, if these aren't paid actors, that these morons aren't some small percentage of the actual number of people who were interviewed and who gave informed and concise answers to the question (not shown). you can't.

you could do this same thing with magatards and it'd probably be a higher number of retards in the aggregate who couldn't be able to explain the difference between communism and socialism.

so yeah, that's what I think. also yes, the clown girl et all are hot and I would have sex with them, to echo the sentiment of posters before me.

>>807215
>if these aren't paid actors,
They are sex workers.

>>807210
>ᴉuᴉlossnW and Gentile did lie a lot about their ideas
But wouldn't that just make them hypocrites?
Gentile published "The Theory of Mind as Pure Act" (1922), which clearly echoes into The Doctrine of Fascism, in how life is conceived of as an activity, and not any passivity. The spirit is obtusely inserted as the totality of man, in how personality manifests in the state. This theory is like the most vulgar Hegelianism, but is clearly continuous of an original idea in Gentile. The origins of Fascism is recounted in "The Manifesto of Fascist Intellectuals" (1925) which sees it begin in 1919, following World War One (1914-18), where it acts as a rebellion against individualism - where Fascism by contrast is seen as "self-denial". And rather than venerating the past, Gentile sees "renewal" as the aim. The turn toward revision with collaboration with Hitler can be seen in the "Manifesto of Race" (1938), which is a movement from idealism to materialism. We read in Emil Ludwig's "Talks with ᴉuᴉlossnW" (1932) that Benito rejected racialism, but in 1938, he accepts the doctrine of race. So, we might say that there is the theory of Fascism, before and after the Rome-Berlin Axis (1936).

>Manifesto of Fascist Intellectuals (1925):

http://bibliotecafascista.blogspot.com/2012/03/manifesto-of-fascist-intellectuals-1925.html?m=1
>Doctrine of Fascism (1932):
http://bibliotecafascista.blogspot.com/2012/03/doctrine-of-fascism-1932.html?m=1
>Manifesto of Race (1938):
http://bibliotecafascista.blogspot.com/2012/03/manifesto-of-race-1938.html?m=1

>>807215
Schizo.

>>807141
>>807179
What did fascists do that liberals didn't do 1st?

>>807218
The mistake you are doing here is trying to understand an anti-intellectual movement through its intellectual history. Like imagine you went to some demented MAGA boomer or a neo-nazi skinhead and start talking to them about Gentile. Whatever theory fascism has is completely unrelated to reality of it as either a political movement, or ideology, or psychological structure.

>>807269
What are you asking exactly? Are you trying to argue you see no meaningful difference between a liberal democracy and a fascist dictatorship? Or on ideological level between values of liberalism and fascism?
If your point is just "they both did bad things therefore they both the same", please use your brain.

>>807208
clown fetish uyghas confuse me, some of them are downright creepy and have mental health issues, much like furries and weebs

>>807311
I just like titties.

>>807311
Most mentally ill people have vanilla sexual preferences.
Furries, weebs and clowns are at best “socially ill”. They’re not all sick in the head.

>>807269
nothing

>>807269
What did fascists do that commies didn't do?

>>807300
>The mistake you are doing here is trying to understand an anti-intellectual movement through its intellectual history.
The mistake you and most exponents of "Ur-Fascism" are making is to sublimate a historical counter-insurrectionist political ideology tailor-made to combat communist internationalism into an immortal bogeyman archetype. Just because the word Fascism still sounds scary 100 years later doesn't mean it magically crystallizes all Mankind's history of oppression and exploitation. It's cheap and intellectually lazy and the prevalence of that kind of thinking on the "left" presents a major obstacle to class consciousness.

>>807300
All of the above. Why should the left be so scared of fascists when liberals will send a death squad to your front door too? Well to hear the left talk liberals are just fascists in waiting so why even make the distinction. Everyone is either a commie or a fascist.

There was Bordiga who said fascists are better organized than liberals and did a better job centralizing the state and crushing labor. Okay, so if you're good at fighting commies, you're a fascist then? But he also thought every capitalist power after WWII became fascist. I remember when the left scoffed at liberals calling Trump a fascist, were they right?

>>807325
I don't think commies promogulated anywhere near the zoological race hatred that fascists did (which derived from liberal enlightenment scientific racism), although not all fascists were as racist as the Nazis ofc. Commies also didn't tend to suck up to the nationalist bourgeoisie or the monarchy or ideas of tradition.

>>807338
>commies promogulated anywhere near the zoological race hatred
Just don't ask Western communists about whites and Chinese about Uighurs.
>liberal enlightenment scientific racism
Oxymoron
>Commies also didn't tend to suck up to the nationalist bourgeoisie
Russia
>or the monarchy
North Korea
>or ideas of tradition
You are literally atheistic Christcucks

File: 1784686540069-7.png (218.74 KB, 850x400, IMG_7239.png)

Forgot picrel

>>807124
>radlibs talking about trump
america is an irredeemable shithole country built on genocide and slavery, trump is liberals' fall guy, and I literally don't care whether the USA academically qualifies as heckin "fascist" or not.

>>807343
>Just don't ask Western communists about whites
i'm a western communist and whites are fine. Jews are fine. blacks are fine. race is fake and gay bullshit. individuals should be held accountable for their reactionary positions.
>and Chinese about Uighurs.
the US government funded ETIM terrorists. instead of drone striking uyghur homes like america would in a similar situation, china built reeducation camps. now the US government that helps israel bomb palestine pretends to care about uyghur muslims. weird huh?

>>807349
>instead of drone striking uyghur homes like america would in a similar situation, china built reeducation camps
Well, Hitler, if I'm not mistaken, didn't kill faggots and their ilk either, but sent them to camps. Is that better?

>>807207
>Making "fascist" an adjective rather than a noun is the problem, since "fascist" becomes a synonym of "bad person", which is obviously incorrect, but this is how politics has become theological in the post-war era.

This.
“Fascist” has become like “communist” in the west. Just an indignatory remark used for “political methods I don’t like”.

>>807343
All true. Communism originated from atheistic Eurpoean Jews who used Christian aesthetics for appeasement

>>807350
there's a difference between being gay, and being a CIA funded terrorist.

there's a difference, similarly, between a reeducation camp, and a death camp.

often people try to compare very different things by ignoring key variables so they can say two things are the same when they aren't. It's deceptive both to themselves and their interlocutors.

>>807366
Engels wasn't Jewish. Marx's parents converted to protestantism and Marx himself was raised protestant. You can only say he was ethnically Jewish.

>used Christian aesthetics for appeasement


Did they really though? Communism is very harsh on religion in general.

>>807350
>Well, Hitler, if I'm not mistaken, didn't kill faggots and their ilk either, but sent them to camps

camps where they were enslaved and worked to death? I wouldn't call that not killing.

>>807404
> Did they really though? Communism is very harsh on religion in general.

Weren’t they only harsh on religion as a political practice rather than as personal practice?
While communist leaders were agnostic leaning towards atheism, the population was more inclined to religion.

Also, Marx wasn’t the only ethnic Jewish figure involved in the advancement of communism.

>>807402
Facts.
>>807337
Wrong.
Liberals are not like fascists. Communists share more similarities to fascism than liberalism does.
Especially in the early phases.

>>807402
>there's a difference between being uyghur, and being a KPD funded terrorist.

>there's a difference, similarly, between a concentration camp, and a death camp.

>>807404
>Communism is very harsh on religion in general.
Communism sees other religions as competitors.

>>807421 whatever that means

>>807300
>Whatever theory fascism has is completely unrelated to reality of it as either a political movement, or ideology, or psychological structure.
Sure, but you do realise that 99% of Marxists have never read Marx, too? If we entirely disregard theory, politics is debased to the disposition of individuals, which is not politics at all, but is gossip. So again, trying to make "fascist" a synonym for "bad person" is not politics. There are good and bad people on every side of a debate.

>>807512
>you can't debase politics to the disposition of individuals
>therefore you must center individual peoples' dispositions in your political analysis
?

>>807512
Political divides in the present day are, descriptively, based almost entirely on the disposition of individuals, and those who self-identify as fascists are all-but-universally those with unpleasant dispositions. Given the fact of their self-identification and the very strong correlation, what would you prefer referring to such people as?

"There are good and bad people on every side of a debate" ignores the problem of distribution. It is sophistry bordering on madness to go "actually, there was one nice Nazi, so we can't say whether Nazis are good or bad."

p.s. as has already been mentioned, Godwin himself doesn't think Godwin's law applies to calling Trump a fascist.

>>807632
>Political divides in the present day are, descriptively, based almost entirely on the disposition of individuals
But this is not politics, as I have said. Being a "good" and "bad" person is not the real split in society, is it?
>those who self-identify as fascists
Who actually self-identifies as a fascist except an autist who has read the theory? The term "fascist" is a description given by others.
>unpleasant dispositions.
There are unpleasant people, no matter one's politics.
>what would you prefer referring to such people as?
If someone says they are a fascist, why ought I deny it? And I'm sure there are plenty of pleasant fascists to be around, but so what?
>It is sophistry bordering on madness
No, it is simply a matter of fact.
>we can't say whether Nazis are good or bad
But what is a "nazi"? I have said that it must have theoretical grounds, while you say that being a nazi means being "unpleasant". Who is the sophist, again?

>>807632
>>807635
Just to quickly conclude; you are allowed to dislike bigoted people who have dispositional and cultural affections which are contrary to you, but the denotation of "Fascist" is simply naive when applied so generally. It is better to simply call whoever a "bad person", since that can be defined. The OP proves that the word is a Lacan "signifier", by simply referring to itself, and so it loses its content.

So, "is Trump a [bad person]"?
Yes… And so on.

Fascism is when corporatism with a totalitarian government and an obsession with traditions and the nation

File: 1784755953036-2.png (621.12 KB, 828x627, ClipboardImage.png)


>>807635
>If someone says they are a fascist, why ought I deny it?
This runs entirely at odds with the idea that one must have theoretical grounds to call oneself a fascist or nazi. What do you do when someone calls themselves a fascist, but is clearly unfamiliar with the basic tenets of fascism (however you may define it) and is, in fact, just expressing that they're a nasty person with stupid prejudices?

I have not, in fact, said that being a nazi means being unpleasant. My point runs quite the other way to how you frame it: not that those who are unpleasant tend to identify as fascists (though they do, as a rule, tend to identify as being on the right) but that those who self-identify as fascists or nazis tend to be unpleasant, while those who identify as (say) Post-Keynesians tend to be quite pleasant but boring.

Almost nobody who identifies with any given ideology (save Post-Keynesians) actually reads theory. Neoliberals just like the vibe of 90s Hong Kong, Fascists just like the vibe of the Nazis or the generalised blurred together crueltyslop of everything from ᴉuᴉlossnW to Pinochet, Socdems just like dead electoralists, Communists just like the USSR, "Multipolarists" just like using foreign governments for escapism, and so on. Insofar as they read a scattering of theory, it comes after they begin to identify with the ideology.
(And yes, I do draw the logical conclusion here: In a strict sense, nobody has any politics at all. It is all identity, all ersatz religion, completely decoupled from serious notions of real world change. But so what?)

>>807654
I like Communism even though I don't like USSR vibes tho. That's where you're wrong.

>>807766
I am being glib for illustrative purposes.
Tell me what vibes you like: I promise not to use them for vulgar psychoanalysis.

>>807766
>Tell me what vibes you like: I promise not to use them for vulgar psychoanalysis.
Call it a kink but I like Human Community vibes, the kind where my efforts benefit myself and the community equally without any extraction of surplus value.

File: 1784817890129-0.jpeg (30.23 KB, 596x335, images.jpeg)

>>807654
>What do you do when someone calls themselves a fascist, but is clearly unfamiliar with the basic tenets of fascism
Excellent question - it applies in the same case as the Marxist who has never read Marx. To analyse this, we must look at fellowship in general. So, churches have (i) Scripture (e.g. Theory). Scripture has an (ii) "official" hermeneutic (e.g. Dogma), and an (iii) "unofficial" one (e.g. Heresy). In each case, scripture is appealed to, and so theory is the grounding. In the matter of Faith, one has "initiation" (e.g. Baptism, Eucharist, etc.) which is given by the acceptance of scripture, however implicit. A Church without a doctrine makes no sense. When one is Faithful in his Church, he may not even read scripture, yet he must be confirmed in it. Now, a Church cannot be merely theoretical, but also practical, and so the legacy of the Catholic Church has a difference from the words of Christ, say. Upon this, heretics start their own church to fulfill the "true" Faith (e.g. "not real communism", etc.) and so practice again appeals to theory, which seeks to align itself with less contradiction upon it. In any case, followers depend upon doctrine, which is my point. So, if someone calls themself a Marxist, but have a false idea of what Marx wrote, are they a true believer in the faith? We must remember that Fascist revision also exists, such as Strasserism, which sought to be a true National Socialism. ᴉuᴉlossnW also praises the Republic of Salo as "true" Fascism (while ᴉuᴉlossnW similarly regarded both Roosevelt and Stalin as Fascists - indeed, Keynes praised Hitler's economic policy in 1936). So, when one asks whether another is a "Fascist", it is probably good to ask "which kind?" the same as Marxists/Christians.
>just expressing that they're a nasty person with stupid prejudices
Well, there was a recent schism I saw between white nationalists and Hitlerians, since Hitler wanted to kill whites such as Slavs, and so Hitler was not pro-white. The nihilistic, transgressive sorts don't have theory like this, they just have vibes entirely determined by taboo. This is why you get the school shooter types who are everything at once - but this is not politics, still; it is the identity of a misanthrope. Hitler would kill these people.
>Almost nobody who identifies with any given ideology (save Post-Keynesians) actually reads theory
Right, the same way nobody read the Bible for over a milennia except priests. If Faith is based in ignorance, can it really be justified? That is the larger question. Is there such a thing as "true" and "false" Faith? An atheist who reads the Bible can be more familiar with the text yet be less willing to believe. If I have to explain Fascism to Fascists, where is the logic in this kind of absurdity?
>Fascists just like the vibe of the Nazis
But we are again dealing with self-identity. The point of OP is to see how identifying others must be justified by an understanding of the terms we use. A self-described Fascist has their reasons, but what of the accuser? As I see it, "Fascist" is simply a synonym for "bad person", and so is incorrect. It's like how Marxoids on this site call everything they don't like "idealism" or "liberal". This is a false use of language, since words mean things.
>nobody has any politics at all
You mean that "most" people don't. I am not swayed by vibes - I could enjoy Nazi or Communist things without being swallowed by irrationality, and so once I am free from the post-war taboo, I am at liberty to discuss truth.
>It is all identity
If all is identity then you are just positing a war of all against all, like the intersectionalists who want a race war. All identity is individual. You see how this type of discourse is not political, but is post-political gossip? One's race, sexual orientation or gender identity are not political categories; they are attributes of civil society.


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