Whats so bad about prostitution? Hows it any different from any othe form of labor? Whys it wrong to buy sex? Hows it any different from buying fast food? Not the buyers fault capitalism exists. Prostitutes should be thankful because without their customers theyd starve to death.
Is your mother being a prostitute no different than them working as a store clerk?
>>816661No theres no difference everyone sells their body to survive in capitalism.
>>816661She probably would've brought in more money as a prostitute.
Morally coerced sex is rape.
Aside from that they are labor deserters. Instead of helping contribute to the socially necessary labor (food production) they instead have sex or masterbate for money.
They are both the commodity and the lumpen bourgoise at the same time.
Their interests are not inline with that if the proletariat.
>>816662>There's no differenceSo if your mother was a prostitute, it would be fine?
>>816663Is that all?
>>816664>Instead of helping contribute to the socially necessary labor (food production) they instead have sex or masterbate for money.By that logic everybody who doesn't produce anything of immediate necessity for life is a "labour deserter". Drawing any line here would always be arbitrary. Just as an example, what foods are important enough that production should be considered "socially necessary?" Which ones are frivolous luxuries? Is a farmworker more "in line with the proletariat" if they work on a potato farm than if they work on a banana plantation? What about a worker in a candy factory?
>They are both the commodity and the lumpen bourgoise at the same time."Lumpen" is a nebulous category that doesn't really tell you much about a person's actual class position. A worker in an illegal meth lab (at least a well organized, large scale one) most likely has a pretty similar relationship to their employer when compared to a worker in a legal pharmaceutical factory. The make a product, their employer sells it, they are paid a fraction of its value with the difference going to their employer as surplus value. This is a worker-capitalist relationship. Lumpen really only constitutes a distinct class if you're talking about people who exist outside of the relations of wage slavery and surplus extraction. It would apply to petty thieves and swindlers, the chronically unemployed, etc. I don't think it should apply to somebody who is in practice a proletarian just because their profession or industry is outlawed by the bourgeois state. As far as prostitution goes, I fail to see how the relationship between a prostitute and a pimp is functionally different than any other set of capitalist relations, except for the fact that the illegality and nature of the sex trade makes it much more dangerous for the prostitute. There's also of course the question of places where prostitution is legal. If there is a brothel operating like any other company in such a place, then there is pretty much nothing separating the sex workers there from any other workers in terms of class interests. Self-employed prostitutes (successful OF models for example) are obviously another matter, but again what distinguishes them is that they're self employed, not that they're prostitutes.
it's the difference between selling your body in its totality vs selling your abstract ability to work (labor power)
the first is effectively (temporary) slavery the second is wage work
>>816665Yes? I dont mind.
>>816668>Selling body in its totalitySo construction work is slavery and also many ptostitutes dont allow anal or for your to touch their breasts.
>>816665>So if your mother was a prostitute, it would be fine?The work may be more degrading, but it doesn't take a genius to see that all work exists on a gradient of degrading and dignified, which in turn is largely socially constructed. I think the real question is about class relations, not how shitty the work is.
>>816667>One where the dudes doing all the work ain't getting fistesBut prostitutes provided theres no pimp allrrady get 100% of the profits of their labor and fisting also costs extra increasing profits for the prostitute.
>>816670>touch their breasts.Wait, I get why they refuse anal (ew) or kissing, but why touching breasts?
Sex haunts people that believe in ghosts
>>816660You're a rapist
>how is different from labor It is not. Sex work must be abolished because it is work.
>>816675>You're a rapistIt was consensual not my fault capitalism exists and you're too stupid to do anyother line of work
>>816676I'm not a chudcel who pays for sex doebeit
>>816660Would you work as a prostitute, OP? If solicited by somebody who you would not have sex with because of mutual attraction, would you do it for money? What if the gender of the person was one you are not attracted to?
If you would not, please explain why.
>>816677>Noo you can't have sex with women because you just can't okay!!!!Im doing charity work by fucking these ugly bitches tho.
>>816669>i dont mindYou wouldn't mind your mother being a prostitute?
>>816671Why is it more degrading?
>>816680>You wouldn't mind your mother being a prostitute?No.
>>816676>not my fault i literally took advantage of someone in a position of povertypeople like you are why the world is ending you know
>>816685Not my fault the dumb bitch is utterly worthless aside from her body.
>>816685People like me are the reason these dumb useless bitches are even alive.
>>816693
>sex
So physical labor
>>816695You know im right.
>>816696>using a person you see as less than human to masturbateIf I were you I would be an hero
>>816698I dont see them as such its just what they are not my fault or problem tbh
>>816696ur a pussy irl who stutters ordering pizza nga
>>816700Hope she hears this bro lmao
>>816704Says the guy seething about sex work
Be vegan and use fleshlight and 2D porn
>>816685>i literally took advantage of someone in a position of povertymaybe if you're talking warzone or sexspots in the third world and even then…contrary to believe many that enter into prostitution come from relatively stable families or have degrees.
but i don't really believe the degree here means all prostitutes in the west went to yale, could be any degree really, even ones in social studies or art
Sex works produces no value. It produces no material wealth and is usually coerced by extreme poverty.
>>816665This is a moralist argument that helps no one.
>>816660Last line is incredibly rapey and goes entirely against all communist thought, not to mention human empathy.
We have this thread every two months. Prostitution is coercion and coercion is rape. Ipso facto. Under communism, women WILL be scientists and Johns WILL be left to deathgrip to hentai.
All these failed men Johns trying to wrap their desire to rape prostitutes within a flag of ~empowering sex workers~ is disgusting. Sex work will be abolished.
>>816786>Prostitution is coercion and coercion is rape. All labor is coercion under capitalism
>>816807So why so much seething about prostitution from liberals here?
>>816810No one should be coerced ever. None of it is okay. People should not be forced to work at Walmart or as prostitutes.
We have a moral responsibility to make other people’s lives better when we can, and avoid exploiting people when we can. Not hiring a prostitute is incredibly easy and could make someone’s life better. What is the point of risking hurting someone when you could just not do that?
>>816812>Not hiring a prostitute is incredibly easy and could make someone’s life betterBeing out of a job is making their life better?
>>816816If you actually care about the prostitutes financial situation, why don’t you just give them money, help them unionize or petition for their rights?
You don’t.
my view on this subject is that it is probably possible to introduce various worker's rights that ensure a certain degree of dignity, safety, and quality of life to the women (and men) in question who would undertake this sort of work. for instance, things like:
- mandatory STD checks for workers and clientele (i.e. you want to just walk into a brothel; be prepared to prove that you're STD clean or be subject to potential fines/civil penalties if that is not true; workers would have to do the same to maintain their employment)
- CCTV on premises, clientele must sign a waiver that indicates their consent to being monitored for the sake of ensuring the model's safety
- on-site security staff who can deal with any undesirables and belligerents
- a progressively hands-off experience for those 'passers-by' who only want a short term engagement (you'll get your service but it may not be as thorough or as involved as you'd like, because the models would have to consent to you as a client as well; you may end up attracting no one, or you may only end up receiving bids for basic-level service) i.e. you'd have to become a regular and develop a rapport with models who can and will grade you as a client based on as many factors as you might grade them.
- the model always reserves the right to refuse or deny service
it's obviously not fool proof and who knows exactly how profitable it'd be versus the cost of operation but it could work given the right environment and in the right location with the right sort of people who wouldn't fuck things up for everyone by trying to bend the fucking rules. and really, it's "the world's oldest profession" for a reason; it's gonna happen, and if I were some government official, I'd want to ensure that it happens in as safe, profitable, and dignified manner as possible within my city walls. hell, I'd probably give them my patronage and love them all and treat them like my personal rent-a-harem.
Christian morality, that's the problem with it.
>>816660In the future Global USSR (all of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR are shown in the Map I posted), there will be People’s Brothels staffed by the People’s Prostitutes (all are consenting adults), who will be Liberated Socialist Women who genuinely enjoy sex work, and like all other Women in the future Global USSR the People’s Prostitutes will all have extremely Short Hair (no longer then a chin-length Bob cut or preferably a Pixie cut) and wear Mao suits, so that they reject the aesthetics of Bourgeois Femininity (ie. Long Hair, Dresses/Skirts, Makeup/Lipstick, etc. which promote being a Weak, Dependent, Controlled “Object” that is dominated by Men) and the Reactionary Patriarchal Gender Binary and embrace the aesthetics of Proletarian Masculinity (Short Hair and Mao suits, which promote being a Strong, Independent/Autonomous, Liberated “Subject” that is equal to Men) in order to become Liberated Socialist Women who happen to choose to work as People’s Prostitutes at the People’s Brothels, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️ 💇♀️👩🦲!
>>816834Yeshua was completely cool with prostitutes. This is something else.
>>816822I dont but the alternative for not using prostitution is the protitutes starving and again you dont fo any of this either.
>>816852>the alternative for not using prostitution is the protitutes starvingNo it is not, that's just one option among various income sources. If prostitution isn't possible, prostitutes find something else to do, legally or not.
>>816853>If prostitution isn't possible, prostitutes find something else to do, legally or not.So then whats the problem with buying prostitution? They're doing it voluntarily.
>>816853>among various income sourcesAh so now you can pull yourself by your bootstraps I see.
If you're poor just get a job tier.
>>816871>voluntarilyUnder the threat of starvation
Implying
>>816660>Whats so bad about prostitution?Its a more literal version of rape-based economics. Leads to large amounts of human trafficking, sexual abuse, physical abuse, and murder. Its also entirely class-based; all prostitutes are workers who must work with their bodies as much as anyone else. They are also some of the most exploited workers on the planet.
> Hows it any different from any othe form of labor?Most jobs dont require you to be literally raped every time you do the job. so their thats.
>Whys it wrong to buy sex? Apart from the same reason money is evil to begin with, the rape part. Its called exchange rape, Ie rape occurring as the result of bargaining. The thing to remember, for all sex, if its not explicitly consensual its rape, and paying for sex means its a form of sexual coercion and therefore rape. so the moment you pay for it, its rape.
> Hows it any different from buying fast food? Most people dont cum on their chicken nuggets. Most.
> Not the buyers fault capitalism exists.It is if they are actively participating in it.
>Prostitutes should be thankful because without their customers theyd starve to death."workers should be thankfull for the capitalists, otherwise they would starve"
Ya, you're going up against the wall.
>>816661my mom is too ugly for that
>>816664>Their interests are not inline with that if the proletariat.They have always been, and historically they have acted as such. You're moralizing and christian brained.
>>816826
leftist males will virtue signal about how woke they are and how much they respect women but when it fails to get them any pussy theyll revert to the same old incel "REEEEEEE RAPE SHOULD BE LEGAL" rhetoric
like atp 90% of leftism is just virtue signaling
>>816890Theres Nothing wrong with rape
>>816910Explain why, you pervert
>>816925ok hetmoid, nobody is gonna fuck you if you've that mentality
Leftists cannot refute this so they resort to ad hominem attacks. No reasonable person would equate paying for a voluntary service with rape. Sex work is no less involuntary than conventional wage slavery. Leftists just don’t want to breakup women’s monopoly on sex because it benefits men.
>>816678Prostitutes that selectively choose clients exist. I’ve personally known a few that will outright deny men they don’t find attractive, or charge them extra. If heterosexual male prostitution was viable, I’d probably dabble in it. Imagine getting paid to larp as someone’s boyfriend for a bit. I’d gladly fuck a past prime woman in their 50s for money. It actually would seem fun to give them that experience.
>>816826Regular women are long term investors in men, while prostitutes are day traders. Functionally their stated goals are identical, but they differ in their approach.
>>816890I'd vote for the left if they actually helped people get jobs and free healthcare. This is just concern trolling horny losers at this point.
>>817014It's all concern trolling and constipated sniping for "social oppression".
It's a troll question to get humoids to fight. Everyone knows the answer that prostitution is good and money solves a human problem.
Every online discussion about prostitution eventually devolves into people ignoring that the fact vast majority of sex workers are being actively trafficked and exploited by criminal firms to talk about like a dozen self employed OF models that actually make decent money that doesn't immediately go towards there legal pimp. Interestingly both people who don't like prostitutes themselves in general for moralist reasons and people trying to find moral reasons to justify johning both do this.
>>817025What about farming practices? I think that's the bigger problem.
People that consume animal derivatives are bad.
>>817026I mean tbh regardless If your vegan or not shit like monoculture or the beef industry in general is absurdly unsustainable and I'd agree that massive problems with the supply chain for food is a bigger problem.
>>817025It's a minor symptom issue and a whataboutism itself. Just get people jobs, free healthcare and the support to run their families properly.
Leave the prozzies alone unless you want to regulate the economy for their safety and can remove the pimps and male beneficiaries from bothering them.
You can all go back to arguing.
>>817031Do you support the replacement of prostitution with digital content and VR then?
>>817134It's hidden misandry, all of it.
>>817134I’ll also go out and say that sexual slavery is rarer than people think, and Western feminists and law enforcement agencies greatly exaggerate it for their benefit.
>>817134>ideal conditions very subjective
>>817032/thread
>>817033I'd support giving it a try at the very least. Idk how effective it would be at getting people to switch over though.
>>817134>Ideal conditionsdon't care see
>>817242 >>817025>vast majority of sex workers are being actively trafficked Prove it.
>>817242And how would you go around doing it? Would it be banning all labour?
>>817025Bullshit that doesn't happen in most countries. Like 99% of prostitutes here in Brazil are independent. Maybe Europe with all that cringe shit in Amsterdam (?) or something is different, idk.
Americans too have something weird going on with prostitutes, probably because they're scared of them because its illegal in their country.
>>817576>we should abolish all forced labor>so we should abolish all labor?No we should have WORKERS RIGHTS and punishment for traffickers and exploitative businesses god damnit, stop ragebaiting me
I would ban prostitution on my country because it's all normie shit, there are almost no prostitutes that engage in fetishes and shit, it's all normie garbage for incels.
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