/siberia/ - Off-topic

Is your mother being a prostitute no different than them working as a store clerk?

>>816661
No theres no difference everyone sells their body to survive in capitalism.

>>816661
She probably would've brought in more money as a prostitute.

Morally coerced sex is rape.
Aside from that they are labor deserters. Instead of helping contribute to the socially necessary labor (food production) they instead have sex or masterbate for money.
They are both the commodity and the lumpen bourgoise at the same time.
Their interests are not inline with that if the proletariat.

>>816662
>There's no difference
So if your mother was a prostitute, it would be fine?
>>816663
Is that all?

>>816664
>Instead of helping contribute to the socially necessary labor (food production) they instead have sex or masterbate for money.
By that logic everybody who doesn't produce anything of immediate necessity for life is a "labour deserter". Drawing any line here would always be arbitrary. Just as an example, what foods are important enough that production should be considered "socially necessary?" Which ones are frivolous luxuries? Is a farmworker more "in line with the proletariat" if they work on a potato farm than if they work on a banana plantation? What about a worker in a candy factory?
>They are both the commodity and the lumpen bourgoise at the same time.
"Lumpen" is a nebulous category that doesn't really tell you much about a person's actual class position. A worker in an illegal meth lab (at least a well organized, large scale one) most likely has a pretty similar relationship to their employer when compared to a worker in a legal pharmaceutical factory. The make a product, their employer sells it, they are paid a fraction of its value with the difference going to their employer as surplus value. This is a worker-capitalist relationship. Lumpen really only constitutes a distinct class if you're talking about people who exist outside of the relations of wage slavery and surplus extraction. It would apply to petty thieves and swindlers, the chronically unemployed, etc. I don't think it should apply to somebody who is in practice a proletarian just because their profession or industry is outlawed by the bourgeois state. As far as prostitution goes, I fail to see how the relationship between a prostitute and a pimp is functionally different than any other set of capitalist relations, except for the fact that the illegality and nature of the sex trade makes it much more dangerous for the prostitute. There's also of course the question of places where prostitution is legal. If there is a brothel operating like any other company in such a place, then there is pretty much nothing separating the sex workers there from any other workers in terms of class interests. Self-employed prostitutes (successful OF models for example) are obviously another matter, but again what distinguishes them is that they're self employed, not that they're prostitutes.

it's the difference between selling your body in its totality vs selling your abstract ability to work (labor power)
the first is effectively (temporary) slavery the second is wage work

>>816665
Yes? I dont mind.

>>816668
>Selling body in its totality
So construction work is slavery and also many ptostitutes dont allow anal or for your to touch their breasts.

>>816665
>So if your mother was a prostitute, it would be fine?
The work may be more degrading, but it doesn't take a genius to see that all work exists on a gradient of degrading and dignified, which in turn is largely socially constructed. I think the real question is about class relations, not how shitty the work is.

>>816667
>One where the dudes doing all the work ain't getting fistes
But prostitutes provided theres no pimp allrrady get 100% of the profits of their labor and fisting also costs extra increasing profits for the prostitute.

>>816670
>touch their breasts.

Wait, I get why they refuse anal (ew) or kissing, but why touching breasts?

Sex haunts people that believe in ghosts

>>816660
You're a rapist
>how is different from labor
It is not. Sex work must be abolished because it is work.

>>816675
>You're a rapist
It was consensual not my fault capitalism exists and you're too stupid to do anyother line of work

>>816676
I'm not a chudcel who pays for sex doebeit

>>816660
Would you work as a prostitute, OP? If solicited by somebody who you would not have sex with because of mutual attraction, would you do it for money? What if the gender of the person was one you are not attracted to?
If you would not, please explain why.

>>816677
>Noo you can't have sex with women because you just can't okay!!!!
Im doing charity work by fucking these ugly bitches tho.

>>816669
>i dont mind
You wouldn't mind your mother being a prostitute?
>>816671
Why is it more degrading?

>>816680
>You wouldn't mind your mother being a prostitute?
No.

>>816676
>not my fault i literally took advantage of someone in a position of poverty
people like you are why the world is ending you know

>>816685
Not my fault the dumb bitch is utterly worthless aside from her body.

>>816685
People like me are the reason these dumb useless bitches are even alive.

>>816660
what isn't wrong with transactional sex? probably the fact that it includes sex retard? and no workers do not sell their bodies they sell their labor (except those who sell their body).

>>816693
>sex
So physical labor

>>816695
You know im right.

>>816696
>using a person you see as less than human to masturbate
If I were you I would be an hero

>>816698
I dont see them as such its just what they are not my fault or problem tbh

>>816696
ur a pussy irl who stutters ordering pizza nga

>>816700
Hope she hears this bro lmao

>>816702
reddit response

>>816704
Says the guy seething about sex work

Be vegan and use fleshlight and 2D porn

>>816685
>i literally took advantage of someone in a position of poverty
maybe if you're talking warzone or sexspots in the third world and even then…contrary to believe many that enter into prostitution come from relatively stable families or have degrees.

but i don't really believe the degree here means all prostitutes in the west went to yale, could be any degree really, even ones in social studies or art

Sex works produces no value. It produces no material wealth and is usually coerced by extreme poverty.

>>816665
This is a moralist argument that helps no one.

>>816660
Last line is incredibly rapey and goes entirely against all communist thought, not to mention human empathy.

We have this thread every two months. Prostitution is coercion and coercion is rape. Ipso facto. Under communism, women WILL be scientists and Johns WILL be left to deathgrip to hentai.
All these failed men Johns trying to wrap their desire to rape prostitutes within a flag of ~empowering sex workers~ is disgusting. Sex work will be abolished.

>>816786
>Prostitution is coercion and coercion is rape.
All labor is coercion under capitalism

>>816803
Duh

>>816807
So why so much seething about prostitution from liberals here?

>>816810
No one should be coerced ever. None of it is okay. People should not be forced to work at Walmart or as prostitutes.
We have a moral responsibility to make other people’s lives better when we can, and avoid exploiting people when we can. Not hiring a prostitute is incredibly easy and could make someone’s life better. What is the point of risking hurting someone when you could just not do that?

>>816812
>Not hiring a prostitute is incredibly easy and could make someone’s life better
Being out of a job is making their life better?

>>816810
Moralism

>>816816
If you actually care about the prostitutes financial situation, why don’t you just give them money, help them unionize or petition for their rights?
You don’t.

Zero difference between modern dating and buying sex. Why bither with the dinner dates, paying fir her hair, paying for her nails, tking her out to the bars, tking her shopping, when you cn skip the middle mn and just pay cash? This is what women wanted. High value men pay for sex all the time.

my view on this subject is that it is probably possible to introduce various worker's rights that ensure a certain degree of dignity, safety, and quality of life to the women (and men) in question who would undertake this sort of work. for instance, things like:

• mandatory STD checks for workers and clientele (i.e. you want to just walk into a brothel; be prepared to prove that you're STD clean or be subject to potential fines/civil penalties if that is not true; workers would have to do the same to maintain their employment)
  
• CCTV on premises, clientele must sign a waiver that indicates their consent to being monitored for the sake of ensuring the model's safety
  
• on-site security staff who can deal with any undesirables and belligerents
  
• a progressively hands-off experience for those 'passers-by' who only want a short term engagement (you'll get your service but it may not be as thorough or as involved as you'd like, because the models would have to consent to you as a client as well; you may end up attracting no one, or you may only end up receiving bids for basic-level service) i.e. you'd have to become a regular and develop a rapport with models who can and will grade you as a client based on as many factors as you might grade them.
  
• the model always reserves the right to refuse or deny service
  
  

it's obviously not fool proof and who knows exactly how profitable it'd be versus the cost of operation but it could work given the right environment and in the right location with the right sort of people who wouldn't fuck things up for everyone by trying to bend the fucking rules. and really, it's "the world's oldest profession" for a reason; it's gonna happen, and if I were some government official, I'd want to ensure that it happens in as safe, profitable, and dignified manner as possible within my city walls. hell, I'd probably give them my patronage and love them all and treat them like my personal rent-a-harem.

Christian morality, that's the problem with it.

>>816660
In the future Global USSR (all of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR are shown in the Map I posted), there will be People’s Brothels staffed by the People’s Prostitutes (all are consenting adults), who will be Liberated Socialist Women who genuinely enjoy sex work, and like all other Women in the future Global USSR the People’s Prostitutes will all have extremely Short Hair (no longer then a chin-length Bob cut or preferably a Pixie cut) and wear Mao suits, so that they reject the aesthetics of Bourgeois Femininity (ie. Long Hair, Dresses/Skirts, Makeup/Lipstick, etc. which promote being a Weak, Dependent, Controlled “Object” that is dominated by Men) and the Reactionary Patriarchal Gender Binary and embrace the aesthetics of Proletarian Masculinity (Short Hair and Mao suits, which promote being a Strong, Independent/Autonomous, Liberated “Subject” that is equal to Men) in order to become Liberated Socialist Women who happen to choose to work as People’s Prostitutes at the People’s Brothels, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️ 💇‍♀️👩‍🦲!

>>816834
Yeshua was completely cool with prostitutes. This is something else.