[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo / 420 ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/siberia/ - Off-topic

"No chin, no right to speak."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Check out our new store at shop.leftypol.org!


 

Why does anyone believe in god/gods, taking into account that there's no sign of intelligent design anywhere we've looked? Life is just random chance, the laws that rule the universe are arbitrary and meaningless, it's all chaos. So why invent this mystical thingy that helps explain nothing about our reality and creates more questions instead?

because they are fucking retarded lol

Social indoctrination. It's not that deep, people are just brought up to be religious. In 200 years it will seem ridiculous that anyone even was religious.

>>819140
>In 200 years it will seem ridiculous that anyone even was religious.
One of those things that's been being said for more than 200 years.

i dont think they necessarily believe in god. most of them probably just wish god or heaven was real

>>819136
Humans have a religious drive, it's a human universal, probably related to group cohesion or fighting through bad times, or maybe something about pattern recognition, seeing faces in nature, feeling like one thing is connected to another, etc. The one hunter-gathering group claimed to be agnostic (the Piraha) still believe in invisible men who come from other layers of reality (the sky).

>>819170
>The one hunter-gathering group claimed to be agnostic (the Piraha) still believe in invisible men who come from other layers of reality (the sky
That's not the same as religion at all though.

>>819173
drop the cope pipe

File: 1787952289353-6.jpg (37.38 KB, 640x726, 1611093870251-b.jpg)

>>819181
But I'm right, and I need that pipe, I have actual problems that aren't semantics based.

File: 1787952660171-7.jpeg (79.4 KB, 1080x360, IMG_4105.jpeg)

>there's no sign of intelligent design anywhere we've looked
Who "we"? Also, this is largely an Abrahamic concept.

>>819136
>Why does anyone believe in god/gods
How can you be over the age of 15 and not know this?

>>819136
the evolutionary origins of ritual

>>819136
Are kids born Atheists?

Cognitive scientists say human minds may come pre-wired for theism (agency detection, purpose-seeking, afterlife intuitions). But do those instincts actually make kids believers in gods? And what happens to kids raised without religion at all?

00:00 Setting up the question: Theistic Babies?
2:32 Cognitive Defaults for Theism?
13:56 Cultural and Social Inputs for Theism
20:33 What about kids raised in nonreligious families?

>>819136
Animism: The first religion?

Anthropologists in the late 19th and early 20th centuries hypothesized that animism was the earliest religion. But later scholars have called this theory into question. What is animism? And how should we categorize it?

>>819136
Do Dreams Explain the Origin of Religion?

Do dreams explain the origins of religion? From biblical visions to Tibetan dream yoga, anthropologists, psychologists, and neuroscientists have long debated how our nightly visions shape gods, spirits, and sacred traditions.

Akhenaten: The First Monotheist? | Atenism

Akhenaten was an Egyptian Pharaoh back in the 1300s BCE who upended the religious landscape of ancient Egypt. Within years of ascending the throne, he turned away from traditional Egyptian polytheism to the worship of a single god: The Aten. Was this an early form of monotheism?

How did Yahweh Become God ? The Origins of Monotheism

The rise of Monotheism has transformed the world and the helm of that transformation is the ancient Near East deity Yahweh. But, how did Yahweh, once only a god among gods, become simple God for billions of people? This episode explores the early rise of Yahwist monotheism in the Ancient Near East rom shifts in familial land relations, the rise of Imperial Assyrian Theology, monolatrous Yahwistic political concentration, the compression and mutation of the Bronze Age four-tiered Canaanite pantheon to Israelite Royal Theology, analysis of exilic-period Yahwistic theonyms on dozens of cuneiform tablets and even if monotheism emerges in Deutero-Isaiah or simply elaborate monotheistic rhetoric! This week's episode is going to an hour long exploration of the path from Canaanite polytheism to the first flickers of Yahwistic Monotheism before the Apocalyptic explosion.

How We Got Monotheism

Was monotheism passed down from Pharaoh Akhenaten of Ancient Egypt? Who was the ancient goddess Asherah? How did exposure to other empires shape the Hebrew Bible?

The Lost Pantheon of Yahweh - Polytheistic Roots of the Abrahamic Religions

Today, billions of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Baháʼís, and others worship the God of Abraham — but where did this idea of one universal God actually come from? This video explores the ancient Near Eastern origins of Yahweh, tracing how the deity worshipped by Israel and Judah emerged from the older polytheistic world of Canaan. We begin in the Bronze and Iron Age Levant, where Canaanite peoples worshipped a divine council led by El and Asherah, alongside gods such as Baal, Shapash, Mot, and others. From there, we follow the rise of Yahweh, a southern storm deity whose cult gradually merged with that of El. Over centuries, political centralization, royal reforms, competition with Baal worship, and the crisis of the Babylonian Exile transformed Israelite religion from polytheism into monolatry, and finally into true monotheism. The video also examines the roles of King Josiah, the Deuteronomists, Isaiah, Cyrus the Great, Persian influence, Zoroastrianism, the Second Temple, and later Abrahamic religions. This is the story of how one regional god became the single God of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and much of the modern world.

The Complete 5,000-Year History Of The World's Religions In 47 Minutes

How did mankind transition from worshiping the elements to the organized religions that dominate our world today? This comprehensive documentary explores the 5,000-year history of human faith, tracing the origins of Hinduism and Buddhism in the East to the Abrahamic traditions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in the West. We examine the sacred texts, the lives of the great prophets, and the cultural shifts that allowed these beliefs to spread across continents. From ancient stone circles to modern humanism, discover the enduring power of the human spirit’s search for meaning.

How did something come out of nothing. If there is no things, how will you get the things to make something?

>>819229
>how did something come out of nothing
<it musta been gaaaaaaaaaaaawd who always existed
>well why can't stuff simply have always existed
<cuzzzzzz stuff needs to be made by intelligence o algo
>why does stuff need to be made by intelligence

>>819231
"yeah let's use quotes to vaguepost the point I'm trying to make"
I had a little bit of a stroke reading this. What point are you trying to make the last quote?

>>819231
Who says second-to-last quote? Stuff relies on other stuff to exist to exist. The creation of our universe must've been created by something.

>>819234
there was no time before time so not really

>>819141
It's been trending towards that direction I think. Everywhere's getting more secular, even religious people are less religious than before. This goes for all religions around the globe.

>>819242
nonreligiosity is increasing, but that does not mean a lack of supernatural beliefs. People have plenty of crank supernatural beliefs, just not associated with any one particular organized religion. People are homebrewing their own beliefs.

File: 1787971327478-2.gif (747.14 KB, 250x200, gatinho fedora.gif)

>>819234
>Stuff relies on other stuff to exist to exist.

It is literally impossible to know this. You just made a claim with no evidence to back it up. It could very well be the case that stuff just exists for no reason.

>(therefore) The creation of our universe must've been created by something.


This is circular logic. If something needs to create something for it to exist, then we arrive at the very same question: how did something come out of nowhere?. This hypothesis creates more questions instead of answering the mystery of existence.

>>819249
This will never go away I think. People hypothesize about what they don't know/understand and will believe whatever explanatuon they've found satisfiable enough. Doesn't need to be supernatural, as it could be pseudoscience, misinformation, hoax, mandela effect etc

>>819253
The future world religion is gonna be a UFO cult, assuming we keep exploring space.

File: 1787987449220-6.jpeg (39.08 KB, 588x330, images.jpeg)

>>819136
If you are familar with your Feuerbach/Marx, you understand that God is not an "invention" a la Plato's Noble Lie, but is an expression of our alienation in the form of an external representative. It abstracts from our essence and so perpetuates itself objectively in the world. In the realm of capitalism, God typically disperses into other superstitions like "value" or "the market". The "invisible hand" is religious language. Put most simply, God reveals the secret of our social institutions, which is why religion only appears with the extent of civilisation. The uncivilised do not have religion, even if they have basic superstitions.
>>819170
Superstition is absolutely separate from religion, which is actually why the early Catholics persecuted superstitions as folk belief systems.
>>819241
Right, so time comes from the uncreated and eternal.
That is a basic deduction.
>>819250
>Impossible to know
What? It is self-evident knowledge; an axiom. A=A.
Stuff needs stuff.

>>819255
Ehhhh UFO cult or not the basic premice of this argument is to conceal an acceptance of god beyond our most basic understanding.

>>819255
>>819269
The perniciousness of the UFO cult is that it appeals to something which is able to save us from ourselves. For more, read Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End". UFOs are a class concept of superiority.

>>819268
>If you are familar with your Feuerbach/Marx, you understand that God is not an "invention" a la Plato's Noble Lie, but is an expression of our alienation in the form of an external representative.
those aren't mutually exclusive

>>819276
Yes they are; one supposes that ideas move the world, while the other supposes that the world moves ideas. If you tried to convert savages to Christianity, there is no frame of reference, so ideas are historical.

>>819277
>not an invention
>but an expression of alienation
a person can invent an expression of alienation

>>819278
Howso?
If you are referring to particular theology, notice that the peasants don't actually read their holy books, but believe what suits them. You can say that Islam is different from Christianity in particular, but if you translated the Arabic to English, doesn't it all fit together quite well? Even the head coverings were common with Western women before the 20th century. Theological conferences like Vatican II respond to the world; the world does not respond to theology.

>>819279
people invented god to express their alienation from a cold and uncaring universe

>>819279
i don't get why you're adding all the extra stuff to the conversation. maybe i am just a dumb monkey

>>819280
I don't really believe that - at least in general.
I think that the fantasy of an afterlife is historically particular to a certain period of civilisation. We see in the Epic of Gilgamesh (2000 BCE) not a single hope for an afterlife. Homer (800 BCE) denies any idea of Heaven. Hesiod (700 BCE) speaks of the "Isle of the Blessed" as a sort of Heaven. It is only really with Plato (380 BCE) that we see a full belief in both Heaven and Hell. So, ideas develop, but they develop alongside material circumstances, not just as a dynamic of the mind. We see that religious faith is highest in the least well-off, and so the fantasy of revenge (e.g. Hell) and reward (e.g. Heaven) is attributed by Nietzsche to be symptom of "slave morality". Slaves are the most alienated and so are most religious - but its a matter of cause and effect. Wouldn't you say that as people become richer, they become less dependent on the fantasy of Heaven? If this is the case, then it is the world which moves ideas, not the other way round.
>>819281
We are all dumb monkeys.

>>819268
<Impossible to know
>What? It is self-evident knowledge; an axiom. A=A. Stuff needs stuff.

Claiming that "stuff needs stuff to exist" is a metaphysical assertion, not a self-evident logical tautology like A = A. Just because your intuition tells you that it's self-evident doesn't mean that it is. This isn't like saying that "a cat is a cat", it's a completely different beast.

Additionally, saying that "a creator, that just exists for no reason, is required for things to exist" is even more wild than saying that "things just exist for no reason". You're just adding a mystical middle man without explaining why.

>>819372
The alternative of things coming from things is things coming from no-thing. No-thing has no qualities or determinations, so cannot be anything, hence it is no-thing; a lack of any-thing. Can no-thing exist? No, since existence is based on some-thing having existence. So, it is impossible to propose no-thing having precedence to some-thing. If there is some-thing, it must come from some-thing, even from itself.

If you can't follow the intrinsic logic, then you are just stubborn.

>>819374
You just abandoned your original claim that "stuff needs other stuff in order to exist". When you say that "stuff can come from itself" then you're admitting that "something does not require an external cause to exist", which agrees with my point that "existence does not inherently require a prior creator".

>>819372
>Claiming that "stuff needs stuff to exist" is a metaphysical assertion, not a self-evident logical tautology like A = A.
Natural theology is argument for the existence of a god from how things are in the world (rather than being based on miracles, what it says in religious books ,and so on., which is the scope of "revealed " theology. )
. Specifically, natural theologians ask what causes change (.It's not just that stuff needs stuff to exist .) We know change happens, we can observe it. They claim that ultimately there must be a "prime mover" behind all changes, which is itself unchanging. Otherwise, there's an unending series of change agents, which doesn't start anywhere, which is the same as saying there's no cause of the changes we can observe.
Inb4 it's all flux and dialectics
but what causes the flux?
I know the answer.anons don't care. Fair enoigh, you don't need theology or gods to discern dialectics in the human society (or anything else.)


Unique IPs: 22

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo / 420 ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]