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File: 1789203032498-8.jpeg (481.96 KB, 1024x2048, IMG_5015.jpeg)

 

In the early 1930s, German Social Democrats and Communists seized upon the homosexual orientation of some Nazi leaders, especially Ernst Röhm, with the aim of discrediting the entire National Socialist movement. In Western Europe as well as the Soviet Union, there was a general tendency among socialists in the 1930s to identify homosexuality with Nazism. Antifascist leftists created the impression that homosexuality was widespread in Nazi organizations. Such socialist theorists as Wilhelm Reich tended to view homosexuality sociologically and psychologically as a typical rightist, nationalist, and above all fascist aberration. Leftist aversion to homosexuality was not only an expression of political opportunism. Prejudices against homosexuality were part and parcel of socialist thinking and became even more deep-rooted among leftists as a consequence of the ideological and moral confrontation with National Socialism. Against the presumed immortality and perversion of the Nazis, the antifascists stressed their own rationality and purity.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8666756/

File: 1789204045621-0.jpg (58.69 KB, 400x210, Homosexual.jpg)

Very good post.
Homosexuality was of course criminalised by Stalin in the 1930s, the same as in the Liberal West - a notorious case of castration against Alan Turing showed the sexual paranoia of Enlightened Europeans of that time, who of course themselves practiced homosexuality behind closed doors. It was the public face of homosexuality which was most disturbing to people. Homosexual advocacy began in the late 19th century, and in the early 20th century, sexologists like Hirschfeld, Kinsey and Freud viewed homosexuality amorally - citing people like the ancient Greeks as a good counter-example. The expansion of the act of "sodomy" to the identity of "homosexuality" is uniquely modern:
<Karl Heinrich Ulrichs (28 August 1825 – 14 July 1895) was a German lawyer, jurist, journalist, sexologist, and proponent of Living Latin. He is today regarded as a pioneer of sexology[1] and the modern gay rights movement. Ulrichs has been described as the "first gay man in world history", and separately as "probably the most famous proponent of Living Latin."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Heinrich_Ulrichs
The term "homosexuality" was coined in 1868-9:
<The first known public appearance of the term homosexual in print is found in an 1869 German pamphlet […] The pamphlet was written by Karl-Maria Kertbeny, but published anonymously. It advocated the repeal of Prussia's sodomy laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_homosexuality
Before this was also Bentham's advocacy for repealing sodomy laws.
All in all, Germany seems like the epicentre of modern homosexuality.

>>822910
You had to cherrypick a bunch of random people who I’ve never heard of and names I can’t even right to make your point, the Nazis gassed gay people, in the 20s the Soviet Union was the only country where homosexuality wasn’t criminal, the DDR legalised homosexuality before the FRG, the only place in the Philippines where gay people can marry the people they love and cherish is the CPP controlled areas.

Stop the bait, it’s not funny or interesting, the whole world has moved on, it’s time you do as well.

>>822913
Why are you so averse to subtlety?
OP is presenting a political paradox which must be contemplated.

File: 1789204834309-2.gif (2.81 MB, 200x200, absurd mishima.gif)

https://www.reddit.com/r/literature/comments/1ly1h24/yukio_mishimas_gender_and_his_path_to_suicide/

>>822915
Mishima wrote on open treatise on the virtues of misogyny.
He was not dysphoric in his gender, but was dysmorohic, being a sickly child who didn't qualify for the army in WW2. His grandmother domineered him into a homosexual lifestyle (with many gay men having a reflexive fear and adoration of the mother figure), and as a Hellenist, he glorified the male form. He was always suicidal because he was obsessed with death from an early age. He was a nihilist.

>>822910
tldr, a non neglectible part of my ennemy's leadership is gay therefore I must mock them for it and become anti gay myself isn't a winning strategy.

>>822916
>Mishima wrote on open treatise on the virtues of misogyny.
>He was not dysphoric in his gender, but was dysmorohic, being a sickly child who didn't qualify for the army in WW2. His grandmother domineered him into a homosexual lifestyle (with many gay men having a reflexive fear and adoration of the mother figure), and as a Hellenist, he glorified the male form. He was always suicidal because he was obsessed with death from an early age. He was a nihilist.
He was probably the first manifesto-suicide reactionary if you read his biography. If you read the Reddit link in the OP, he held an exhibition of the katana that was used to behead him the following day and his boyfriend celebrated his death when he saw it on TV. It's something he wanted to do for a long time and he created a political party to do it so I wonder how political he even was to be honest. Was he a rightoid or was he just being an asshole all along?

Evola and Mishima would write letters to each other and the former wrote on gender magic. One of Evola's influences on gender, Weininger also committed suicide at a young age.

I'm just pointing out the extreme horseshoe and madness >>>/siberia/821238 >>>/siberia/821240

>>822917
>tldr, a non neglectible part of my ennemy's leadership is gay therefore I must mock them for it and become anti gay myself isn't a winning strategy.
Politics attracts psychopaths so there's probably a filter somewhere in there that's triggering the noticers.

File: 1789205965789-2.jpg (147.6 KB, 1080x657, 8p3hvd.jpg)

>>822918
Well, possibly the first manifesto-fag, but the post-war nihilism immediately resulted in figures like Howard Unruh to be the first mass shooter in US history, indiscriminately murdering members of the public - the most famous early case is Charles Whitman in 1966, who was also ex-military, indiscriminately sniping people. Mishima's death was in 1970, so it was momentous of a certain Zeitgeist. The school shootings began with Columbine, who were Social Darwinists a la Neo-Nazism. It seems to be a far-right phenemonon, this sublime suicide; the wish to be martyred, like the heroes who go to Valhalla. No one has been able to redeem modernity; even Nietzsche succumbed. But of course, Nietzsche was also a resentful incel, so maybe there's a through-line. We know the "pinkpill" often affects lonely, autistic incels all the same; on the far-left and far-right.

>>822923
>Well, possibly the first manifesto-fag, but the post-war nihilism immediately resulted in figures like Howard Unruh to be the first mass shooter in US history, indiscriminately murdering members of the public - the most famous early case is Charles Whitman in 1966, who was also ex-military, indiscriminately sniping people. Mishima's death was in 1970, so it was momentous of a certain Zeitgeist. The school shootings began with Columbine, who were Social Darwinists a la Neo-Nazism. It seems to be a far-right phenemonon, this sublime suicide; the wish to be martyred, like the heroes who go to Valhalla. No one has been able to redeem modernity; even Nietzsche succumbed. But of course, Nietzsche was also a resentful incel, so maybe there's a through-line. We know the "pinkpill" often affects lonely, autistic incels all the same; on the far-left and far-right.
I honestly think that Mishima may have been literally mad. Not mentally ill, just mad. I just don't think that his case was a historical context kind of thing. He never actually joined any of the wars so he couldn't hhaave gotten PTSD. >>>/lgbt/10576 . The other guys yes, they had conditions that attracted them to this kind of stuff, so it's an interaction between the mad and the ill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukio_Mishima_bibliography

It might be worth creating a long term thread on deconstructing Evola and Traditionalism if anyone is interested.

>>822919
You give too much credit to repliers if you think they're psychopaths in damage control. Seems like basic kneejerk reaction against accusation of homophobia from people who can't read past a couple lines, let alone between the lines.

>>822923
Elliott Rodger was mad too. ER joined a face rating site and wanted to be rated and then ignored all the girls who rated him 8 and 9 and focused on trolling the ones who didn't. Even if he got the top pornstar to fuck with him, he would not be able to feel the love behind it and he didn't get to find it out before he died. The guy had a broken brain.

>>822913
>random people who I’ve never heard of
You’ve never heard of Engels, Castro, Gorky, Adorno, Mosley, Röhm, Jünger, and Evola? I highly doubt that.
>in the 20s the Soviet Union was the only country where homosexuality wasn’t criminal
Objectively a lie.

>>822926
>You give too much credit to repliers if you think they're psychopaths in damage control. Seems like basic kneejerk reaction against accusation of homophobia from people who can't read past a couple lines, let alone between the lines.
I'm not calling the repliers psychopaths. I'm just saying you're likely to find crazies at the top and that could mix in with your own biases.

>>822925
>He never actually joined any of the wars so he couldn't hhaave gotten PTSD.
PTSD is when war

>>822930
Oh. Ok

>>822923
>Well, possibly the first manifesto-fag, but the post-war nihilism immediately resulted in figures like Howard Unruh to be the first mass shooter in US history, indiscriminately murdering members of the public - the most famous early case is Charles Whitman in 1966, who was also ex-military, indiscriminately sniping people. Mishima's death was in 1970, so it was momentous of a certain Zeitgeist. The school shootings began with Columbine, who were Social Darwinists a la Neo-Nazism. It seems to be a far-right phenemonon, this sublime suicide; the wish to be martyred, like the heroes who go to Valhalla. No one has been able to redeem modernity; even Nietzsche succumbed. But of course, Nietzsche was also a resentful incel, so maybe there's a through-line. We know the "pinkpill" often affects lonely, autistic incels all the same; on the far-left and far-right.
I don't really like the anachronistic use of the words like incel and blackpill. Incel was invented as an identity by Alana back in 1997 and the blackpill was invented in the male blogosphere in 2010 to distract young men from women and to get them into politics. Misuse just turns it into gendered idpol.

>>822931
>PTSD is when war
If you're speculating that something else happened to him instead?

>>822925
>>822928
I don't see it as purely irrational.
Every human being has a self-destructive drive which is part of their living flame. Mishima was a fan of Georges Bataille, for example. There is a modern fascist named Patrick Salykov who is into all this, and there is nothing "mad" or ill about him; he strives for excellence. This is the "vitalist" worldview. Watch this short clip in vidrel (1:20-2:15):
This is also why I think so many Fascist types are anti-social; most often involving themselves in crime. They crave war and real conflict.
>>822933
Nietzsche was involuntarily celibate though (although, some see that he contracted syphilis from gay sex, but this is purely speculative). The more basic point is that there is a sexual frustration or repression which is combined with these types of people.

>>822925
>>822928
>>822935
There is also this Fascist channel which sees vitalism, or the philosophy of life, as the basis of all further inquiry. We begin with the instincts and move from there. It is a fantasy of total realisation.

>>822935
>I don't see it as purely irrational.
He didn't reason his desires himself, so it's irrational. The fact that you can speculate on what influenced it doesn't make it less so because if you interacted with him in person, it would be difficult for him to explain the reasoning behind motives to you. Just because you can rationalize it as an outsider doesn't actually mean that he was rational.

>Nietzsche was involuntarily celibate though (although, some see that he contracted syphilis from gay sex, but this is purely speculative). The more basic point is that there is a sexual frustration or repression which is combined with these types of people.
Incel blackpillers are an overlap of two identities so they never got to actually learn to date. Nietzsche wasn't there to read about the blackpill or self-identify as an incel. Incels use the word to describe and understand their world and it's dynamics. Nietzsche wasn't one of those.

>>822936
>There is also this Fascist channel which sees vitalism, or the philosophy of life, as the basis of all further inquiry. We begin with the instincts and move from there. It is a fantasy of total realisation.
If a fascist rationalizes your behavior, would those reasons be the reasons behind your motives or is there room for discussion?

>>822938
In his novel "Temple of Golden Pavillion" he describes a boring, degenerate world where all mystery has been taken away - the protagonist's only friend is an enigmatic cripple who womanises using poetry. His resolve in the end is to burn down his temple as an act of suicide - but as he feels doom, he suddenly escapes, being burned in the process, but alive. This is the act of his affirmation, an inducement of conflict and transgression. The reasoning comes after, but it is encoded into praxis; a means to stir the waters of life, to not allow stagnation. The Satanic poet Charles Baudelaire would drink poison as a way to give spice to life. In all this is a rationale; to exceed.
>incels didn't exist before the term was coined
What would you call Nietzsche, then?
He was barred from a longing romance and became bitter toward women as a result.
>If a fascist rationalizes your behavior
It's not my behaviour.
I am saying that there is coherence to the extremist, even if it is not annunciated. Most Fascists are practical, not theoretical people.

>>822939
>In his novel "Temple of Golden Pavillion" he describes a boring, degenerate world where all mystery has been taken away - the protagonist's only friend is an enigmatic cripple who womanises using poetry. His resolve in the end is to burn down his temple as an act of suicide - but as he feels doom, he suddenly escapes, being burned in the process, but alive. This is the act of his affirmation, an inducement of conflict and transgression. The reasoning comes after, but it is encoded into praxis; a means to stir the waters of life, to not allow stagnation. The Satanic poet Charles Baudelaire would drink poison as a way to give spice to life. In all this is a rationale; to exceed.
This reads like it was written by someone who read Evola. Don't you agree? These feelings do not feel like they originate in him.

>What would you call Nietzsche, then?
>He was barred from a longing romance and became bitter toward women as a result.
He's an undesired man and romantically unsuccessful. You don't have to create newspeak for this problem.

>It's not my behaviour.
>I am saying that there is coherence to the extremist, even if it is not annunciated. Most Fascists are practical, not theoretical people.
I meant "your" as people in general. Mishima' militia was made of 100 practical men led by 10 insiders and two madmen at the top.

>>822939
>In his novel "Temple of Golden Pavillion" he describes a boring, degenerate world where all mystery has been taken away - the protagonist's only friend is an enigmatic cripple who womanises using poetry. His resolve in the end is to burn down his temple as an act of suicide - but as he feels doom, he suddenly escapes, being burned in the process, but alive. This is the act of his affirmation, an inducement of conflict and transgression. The reasoning comes after, but it is encoded into praxis; a means to stir the waters of life, to not allow stagnation. The Satanic poet Charles Baudelaire would drink poison as a way to give spice to life. In all this is a rationale; to exceed.
<This reads like it was written by someone who read Evola. Don't you agree? These feelings do not feel like they originate in him.
I think you guys need to read Evola and deconstruct him. You're not going to pick up on his code or understand the other side fully without that. He's recommended reading in some places but that's another discussion.

>>822942
>>822944
I just wouldn't call Mishima "mad".
Madness implies an allergy to reason.
Or worse, it implies the medicalisation of disposition.

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File: 1789210508681-5-2.jpg (81.02 KB, 966x842, mishima-fin.jpg)

>>822949
>Or worse, it implies the medicalisation of disposition
I wouldn't call mentally ill people, even schizophrenics mad because you can completely separate their condition from their person. They have a condition.

>>822949
>I just wouldn't call Mishima "mad".
>Madness implies an allergy to reason.
He was very rational and practical in doing what he felt he needed to do. His feelings and the way he related to the world, metaphor and aesthetics are completely alien to the average person. He did not at any point reflect and contemplate that and what it would imply about him.

>>In his novel "Temple of Golden Pavillion" he describes a boring, degenerate world where all mystery has been taken away - the protagonist's only friend is an enigmatic cripple who womanises using poetry. His resolve in the end is to burn down his temple as an act of suicide - but as he feels doom, he suddenly escapes, being burned in the process, but alive. This is the act of his affirmation, an inducement of conflict and transgression. The reasoning comes after, but it is encoded into praxis; a means to stir the waters of life, to not allow stagnation. The Satanic poet Charles Baudelaire would drink poison as a way to give spice to life. In all this is a rationale; to exceed.
This is some phoenix type Evola magic. In the end, the writer took over some complex and committed seppuku with real swords. He met a like minded suicidal guy along the way in real life (not internet) and they died together for his reactionary manifesto.

Am I the only one seeing that this is mad? This is not some, "I have muh X condition". It's literal madness.

File: 1789213634754-5.png (100.35 KB, 706x674, IMG_2506.png)

Is it just me, or is all that walls of text just pseudo-intellectual nonsense?

>>822959(me)
P.S. How many of you are shitalian?

File: 1789215567541-3.webp (18.65 KB, 327x330, Pinky_brain-2735645654.webp)

>>822960
>P.S. How many of you are shitalian?
I went there for holiday when I was a kid but I don't remember anything.

>>822959
>Is it just me, or is all that walls of text just pseudo-intellectual nonsense?
I think Evola was a load of pseudo intellectual aesthetic nonsense for people with a specific madness to pick up but we'll never challenge that.

I wish we had ways of identifying mad "Hitler" figures before they end up in power.

>>822962
>I wish we had ways of identifying mad "Hitler" figures before they end up in power.
Absence of autism and presence of eyes

>>822968
>Absence of autism and presence of eyes
Germany is the home of autismus


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