/siberia/ - Off-topic

>>829717
>unlikely to have discovered metallurgy, since you need fire for that
They have volcanoes and shit down there.

>And intelligent aquatic aliens are unlikely to have discovered metallurgy, since you need fire for that

Octopi use tools and thermite allows you do do metallurgy under water.

earth is also an ocean planet but our only intelligent species is terrestrial. any planet with life in it would probably be extremely diverse.

>>829725
>but our only intelligent species is terrestrial.
Wrong

>>829726
their brain is all wrinkly and gross though, so i'd rather be me

>>829720
>>829718
hate to be a meat proxy NPC, but AI said it don't work like that!!! Supposedly you need oxygen too because water dissipates heat too well and shit. i don't know shit abt chemistry, so I don't know who to trust on this

OP it probably means that aquatic life cant develop complex organization

i mean just eating cooked food alone is a huge reason we developed society. Fire being available everywhere and not only in non renewable volcanoes limits the possibilities of development

>>829760
I think it's arrogant and a little crazy to jump to this conclusion with a sample of just one species developing civilization, while we're not even totally certain on why and how we got there. I think we need to get some gigantic telescopes in orbit and try to detect interstellar civilizations before we jump to conclusions.

>>829767
The principles of our evolution are not planet specific. Marxism is all about being a universal study of societal evolution, not only to us humans.

Unless "aquatic" meant something fundemrntally different on a seperate planet, those same limiting factors would apply

>>829760
Fire isn't the only way to cook food.
There are geothermal vents that could be used to cook.
Regardless, the only reason humans needed to learn how to cook food is because it saved a lot of digestion time. Many animals adapt and evolve around this restriction. It doesn't stand to reason that if you feed, say, a bird cooked meat, it's brain would increase in size.
Humans merely evolved around tool use to overcome natural pitfalls.

>>829775

aquatic life near geothermal vents is bajillions of years older than humans developing firekeeping, yet no animal apart from us cooks food.

Despite how longstanding a geothermal vent could be, its simply not conducive to evolving civilization, as civlizations begin with that nomadic phase. It was our nomadic cooking that pushed us to eveolve social organization

It is our external tool and fire use that creates complex social organziation, as being able to digest or hunt with our base biology doesnt encourage social organizing.

>>829777
>aquatic life near geothermal vents is bajillions of years older than humans developing firekeeping, yet no animal apart from us cooks food.
Fair.

>It was our nomadic cooking that pushed us to eveolve social organization
Many animals hunt socially.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00265-026-03770-0
Many animals groom each other.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982225004506
Some animals even speak Chinese
https://ls.berkeley.edu/news/uc-berkeley-and-project-ceti-study-shows-sperm-whales-communicate-ways-similar-humans

>It is our external tool and fire use that creates complex social organziation, as being able to digest or hunt with our base biology doesnt encourage social organizing.
I think we see similar patterns in enough differeny species to conclude that it was something other than just being social animals and using tools that makes a human a human. It could be the right material circumstances and a bit of luck, perhaps the opposable thumb making wider arrays of tool use capable.

>>829778

but we arent talking about any social organization whatsoever, obviously animals can organize socially and have benefits for doing so, we are talking about organziation complex enough to evolve into civilizations, with political economies, sapience, and the "evolution" of the species externalized outside of simply biology. People are generally pretty biologically similar to those of thousands of years ago, so its the social organization and economics that have evolved.

Water isnt good for tool use, cooking, or agriculture on the primitive scale, making it a barrier for higher conciousness and social organization

mining, metallurgy, farming, structure building etc is simply not viable underwater.

we evolved on land not by chance, but because land had all the things needed to evolve

>>829782
>>829777
You're a bit foolish to draw conclusions from a dataset of exactly one (1) civilization. We need to send huge telescopes in space and look out there to get any sort of theory that isn't complete garbage tbh

>>829717
They would be primitive communist because they would never develop agriculture either. They would be hunter-gatherers forever, but even hunter-gatherer might be too far because they also likely wouldn't be able to gather or store anything.

>>829791

you dont need a dataset when you know the fundemental laws of development. Grasp the mechanics well enough and you can know without data. Any such civilizations would need conditions that would redefine what it even means to be aquatic in contradiction to terrestrial

Air breathing gang 4 lyfe uygha

>>829793
You can't deduce the fundamental laws of civilization development from mechanics and shit otherwise we could predict the weather from our understanding of atoms and we can't even predict the weather because it's too complex. We need more samples or it's just idealist human particularism with muh Goldilocks and shit

The vast majority of known species are insects

Quarren were revolutionary

Mon calamari reformists and revisionists