No.10669
i should've done a blood test for my endo last month and i still havent, it's joever
No.10670
>>10669ive been like 4 years hrt without a single blood test
No.10672
>>10669>>10670Are you two both ladymen?
No.10673
>>10672i'm a trans woman so nah
No.10674
>>10667 true
>>10668damn, he wasn't kidding when he said i'm gay
No.10677
>>10674stop posting this cringey rip-off of the onion cartoon
No.10678
>>10674Why can't conservatives just relax? Like, who cares that there are gay people? Don't they have anything better to do with their life?
No.10680
>>10679The guy labeled BIG HOMO made me chuckle.
No.10681
>>10678Theyre addicted to indignation
No.10682
cis bi girl im arranging a hookup with said "woman or trans woman"
is this a bad sign or is she just a little awkward
No.10684
>>10682She ia probably just trying to make it clear she is fine with trans women.
No.10685
Tell roommate I'm gonna make some music with my synthesizer (using headphones)
She says "cool, I want to listen to a vinyl" *starts playing it distractingly loud*
I'm so blindsided by how rude this was that I honestly think she's just being autistic and doesn't realize it. How do I confront her about this?
No.10686
I had unprotected sex with a passing trans girl last week. Does this give me at least some lgbt cred?
No.10688
>>10686Yeah, a little bit, but not for the reason you think. Trans women are sought out by straight men, not gay men. But, in the west, being in the proximity of naked pensises and trans women are thought of as "gay" or non-straight. So overcoming that tiny bit of cis-hetero-male gender demand gives you a bit of queer cred. A bit more than painting your nails as a man, more than getting fingered by a cis woman, and just a hair less than being pegged by a cis woman.
No.10689
>>10667gay sex sounds good on paper but in practice it has never worked
No.10690
I can't help but feel like trans people shouldn't get phalloplasty and vaginoplasty or whatever it's called. By shouldn't I don't mean morally, of course people can do whatever they want with their bodies. I mean more like "in an ideal world, it wouldn't be necessary".
I want to believe that penises can be womanly and vaginas can be manly. Plus the complications are so big. I can't help but feel like we, as a society, need to embrace transness in order for people to feel comfortable with their genitals despite the association with a specific gender.
This might be a problematic belief. What does leftypol think?
No.10691
>>10690I don't think it's problematic, just kind of misguided, but if you don't know what having dysphoria is like it's not surprising if you don't get that it doesn't really have anything to do with superstructural beliefs about gender.
No.10692
polyamorists are kinda like the kulaks of being a faggot if you think about it
No.10693
>>10692pull yourself up by your bootstraps, bussy does not come to lazy communist bums. the free sexual market will fix it
No.10694
>>10692Sex is not a resource or scarce (neither is "amore")
No.10695
>>10690we don't do it to pass, we do it because we have genital dysphoria. this is strongly tied to gender for some people, but most of the time it's because they feel uncomfortable with their genitals in themselves. that being said, i mostly agree with you on the second part of the post. i personally don't feel dysphoric about my genitals, and i don't like the way some people center changing them as the cornerstone of transition
No.10697
>>10693communism is the real movement that abolishes the séx-form. under communism having séx will result in mandatory reeducation at a people's labor camp
>>10695I don't think it's very controversial within trans circles that genitals can be gendered in a certain way, except maybe for like, people extremely early into transition who haven't learned that you can just not get bottom surgery if you don't want it. there's a reason why "girldick" is the meme that won't die.
>i personally don't feel dysphoric about my genitalspic related
No.10700
>>10697>>i personally don't feel dysphoric about my genitals>pic relatedWell, biological sex is the gendering of the body, soooooo no, I wouldn't
:-P >>10699Lmao
No.10701
🏳️🌈 The Supreme Court of the Russian Federation called the use of feminitives one of the signs of participation in the "international LGBT movement"
"The participants of the movement are united by the presence of certain mores, customs and traditions (for example, gay parades), a similar lifestyle (in particular, the peculiarities of choosing sexual partners), common interests and needs, a specific language (the use of potential feminitive words such as leader, director, author, psychologist)."
The text of the decision, which was previously not publicly available, was published by "Free News": the document was attached to one of the administrative cases.
No.10705
>>10696The world is now filled with straggots who love jerking off to the same tired ass "femboy" garbage and most of them are very homophobic too.
No.10707
>>10696catholic priests say hi
No.10709
>>10705do any of you ever think about how "femboys" quickly becoming a relatively popular meme in the culture of younger generations, including predominately straight people, is a direct offshoot of the transmisogynistic hysteria backlash that happened towards the end of the 2010s and that it's no mere coincidence that "femboy fascists" and nazis wearing maid dresses is also a thing (not that this means every individual femboy is a fascist or something, obviously).
No.10711
>>10704kinda based, but i'm not entirely sure
No.10713
>>10704Correct. Also denying you're a twink or at least not acknowledging you're a twink is a necessary condition for being a twink.
So called twinks that lean into twinkiness are a usual sign of "evil twinks" which are not True Twinks.
Evil twinks are actually in the same family of demons as Incubi (incubus) and succubi (succubus), but they target gay men. Evil twinks tend to be way more verse or even top than regular twinks. Please note that a twink top doesn't indicate that they're actually a sexual energy sucking demon.
Video related, an evil twink that has risen to fame.
No.10714
>>10704i get what you mean, i roll my eyes when people call themselves twinks or femboys lol
No.10715
how do i find a butch lesbian gf as a trans girl?
No.10717
>>10716some of the only cis dudes I've talked to who seemed like they should otherwise be massive piece of shit transphobes but were actually chill are juicers. morphological freedom should be for everyone.
No.10719
>>10718
I'm using "morphological freedom" in a different sense to basically just mean being able to change your body in whatever ways you see fit. there's an interesting overlap between juicers and trans people where both for different reasons run up against the control logic of the the medical-pharmaceutical industry under capitalism, where the Hippocratic Oath is interpreted in an almost Kantian sense to mean that medical intervention can only ever be done if it's basically determined to be the lesser evil. this is why historically trans people have had to deal with varying degrees of gatekeeping, because it's not enough if someone wants to change their body, they also need to want to change it for the right reasons.
it also has only gotten worse because of how litigious amerikan culture is. doctors are more likely to tell someone they should just exercise more or some shit and ignore their patients because the more a doctor/hospital is involved in treating a patient, the more legal culpability they have for what happens to the patient. they have expensive legal teams on retainer to deal with lawsuits but it's still a risk and capitalists are very risk-adverse. it also didn't used to be the case that a doctor was just some random employee who gets assigned to you if you go to a hospital. people used to have a personal relationship with their doctor and would go to the same one for many years, so it's not just that doctors had perverse incentives against actually treating their patients, but they also knew on an individual basis what a person's medical history was, how their body functions when it's healthy, how the patient acts (less excuse to claim someone is just making shit up), etc.
>the author, nyx
oh she's literally me
No.10720
>>10718
>like how the number 1 represents the phallic and the 0 is the wombic, which is why it was barred for so much of western history
truly pressing matters
>how so many programmers today are trans women
twitter zoomies and their confirmation bias. lets ignore all the trans people who are homeless or who dont live in amerikkka
No.10723
>>10722FUCKEN GENDER NORMS!!
I'M NOT LIFTING WEIGHTS, MOTHERFUCKERS!!! No.10724
>>10723Fuck you. I will double the weights I lift to cancel you out.
No.10725
>>10722that's just looks maxxing
No.10726
im pretty sure im bisexual but im one of the stereotypically boring ones (except for my wild fetishes ig) but i hate calling myself bi because it feels like im doing it for "queer cred". am i terminally online?
No.10728
>>10726No its true.
Bisexuals are hated by the queers.
Its like being a unitarian universalist; just pick a lane
No.10729
>>10726>feels like im doing it for "queer cred". Who cares. Speak your truth, sister! No but really, don't think about that shit and identify as whatever you want or not. Why would you even want queer cred lol, I guess you hang out with a bunch of queer people because otherwise it is something I can't imagine why you'd want. By the mere fact of hanging around the queers, that already gives you queer cred, not kidding. Seriously nobody thinks of "queer cred".
>am i terminally online?Yes, but not for anything related to this.
No.10730
>>10722does this mean weight lifting the first diy transition
No.10731
>>10726I'm in a similar situation. I jack off to anime and furry boys (yes, even masculine ones) but I've never felt
physically attracted to men IRL. I don't know if I'm a coward or just not actually into it.
No.10734
>>10726>but i hate calling myself bi because it feels like im doing it for "queer cred". am i terminally online?The B is in the letters for a reason.
No.10736
>>10735Nvm, 0 is a number, and not also a concept.
Still makes no sense since the usage of 0 wasn't needed at first so that's why early number systems didn't include it.
No.10739
>>10738
imagine how embarrassing to get a stiffy just as the sargeant is fondling your pennis
No.10740
>>10738
when it's penis inspection day but you forgot to study
No.10741
>>10738
this is what republicans want in our public schools
No.10742
>>10739He's fondling the balls, probably looking for lumps that could indicate testicular cancer. If you have balls you should ask your homies to check yours.
No.10743
>>495503I don't see any idpol. Could you point it out?
>>10742>>10738They're not even flinching. Are my balls just more delicate? If he fondled mine like that, I'd definitely react in pain. These guys seem to have dead balls.
No.10744
>>10743He seems pretty gentle to me, and probably has plenty of experience in fondling balls of all kinds.
No.10745
>>10743>I'd definitely react in painyou'd fail the penis inspection test
No.10746
>>10731>physically attracted But otherwise? Most wouldn't make this distinction in these matters.
>I don't know if I'm a coward or just not actually into it.It's important to ask the right questions. In the first case what I imagine is not what is generally known as cowardice but something like your unconscious (as attraction is a not a conscious act) making calculations like "how will this affect my social standing" which is weird to think about.
I ignore the second case because there is no reality to being into someone or something.
No.10747
Some days I really love being gay.
No.10749
>>10666>LGBTQ general 10>not LGBTQIA+not fully representative
>>10748>They were taking selfies in front of the all gender bathroom.wtf lol? have they never seen one of those in a restaurant before? conservatives are so retarded
No.10753
>>10749everything else is included in the 'q'
No.10755
>>10754it stands for 'queer' which means any type of nonhetero sexuality
No.10756
>>10752she made up all that garbage to make fun of pseuds then claimed it was serious after going insane. many such cases
No.10758
>>10752that's not quite what's going on in the phenomenon I was describing and I definitely didn't get the distinction across very well in g/acc. I have a whole theory about it after having a few years to think about it more and read more stuff that I haven't really elaborated on anywhere yet.
>>10756that's not the full story, but not wrong either
No.10759
>>10758>Nothing male makes it out of the near futureYour words, not mine.
No.10760
>>10709Femboy fascism is homoeroticism which is queerphobic as it appropriates the veneer of queerness. Like how the conservatism of capital is precisely in its vehicle for the commodification of sex, and why porn can never be feminist.
Homoeroticism is the opposite of homosexuality, where homosexuality represents love while to me homoeroticism is the "surplus enjoyment" of a violent heterosexuality.
Theres extra valuable theory on it here:
>>496044>>496096 No.10761
>>10760>homosexuality represents loveAnon, you're conflating heterosexuality with homoromanticism. Homosexuality usually implies both sexual and romantic attraction unless you're asexual or aromantic. Homoeroticism is a completely different subject matter altogether: it usually denotes some homosexual subtext without homosexuality necessarily being present. Therefore it isn't really about sex or sexually-attractive images at all. I think your word definitions are all over the place and you need to read a dictionary.
>porn can never be feminist>porno is le badHere we go again. Progressives are just as puritan as conservatives are, I hate culture war.
No.10762
>>10757Is that really musks daughter?
No.10763
>>10761Its important to dissociate the form from the content of homoeroticism
The uncritical person will say that its just gay, but its not, its literally hyper-heterosexuality. Thats why all homoerotics are homophobic. Thats why most femboys are fascists. Follow the evidence.
Again, the form or *quality* (that is, its "concrete" or discursive manifestation) is different from its content or *quantity* (the substance of the thing).
>Progressives are just as puritan as conservatives areWell youre the one defending an industry based on sex trafficking
Also, there is a defense of "sex videos" as against porn. But again, its about CAPITAL, not bodies. Your kneejerk perversions are uncritical.
What would "porn" look like if there was no profit involved? Think about that and you start to see the structure of today's culture.
No.10764
>>10763I was claiming the exact opposite. Homoeroticism isn't gay and isn't even about sex. There is no homoeroticism in femboys.
No.10765
>>10764Well i completely disagree.
There is homoeroticism in femboys and thats what makes it not gay, is my point.
No.10766
>>10765For example, all the stuff guys do in frat houses is not gay. Its not gay to shower with your teammates. Its not gay to be the guy in the barracks to dress up as a lady. But its homoerotic.
In fact, the more "gay" you act, the more straight you are. Like how its always the macho guys who rape other guys in prison.
Ive heard lots of stories before of bullies in high school making victims suck their dicks and so on.
To the normie this is gay, but to a critical perspective, all this is truly the height of stable heterosexuality, but explodes in a "surplus enjoyment" as i cite.
No.10767
>>10766What *is* gay however is kissing. Two men kissing sends most hetero men crazy. They find it much more disgusting than dick sucking or ass sex.
And why? Because it is a sign of love; of true affection.
So what breaks the logic of homoeroticism is the act of gay love, making homoeroticism in its limits something which barrs love.
Ive heard anecdotes before about boys sucking eachothers dicks as teenagers, but if a boy wanted to kiss the other they would be called a faggot - because they were; they were gay, while dick sucking is not strictly gay in this context.
Its the same for women, that sucking a dick is casual, but a woman will only kiss someone she actually likes.
So its that hard split which characterises my theory, between lust and love, we might say.
No.10768
>>10763Also, I forgot to say that I think there are more queer fascists nowadays because some fascists are embracing some progressive values instead of femboys being reactionary. It's the slow retvrn to fascist futurism if anything. It's still fascism, not Novatorean anarcho-futurism, so it stinks.
No.10769
>>10768No i disagree
I think fascism is fundamentally homophobic, *because* its homoerotic. It can only have surplus enjoyment of male fraternity, not anything authentic. There will never be an openly gay fascist, like there are no openly gay athletes.
No.10770
>>10766Again, I think it's just a coping mechanism. You must understand that heterosexists have a pathological fear of being gay so it's more of an artificial psychological barrier they have, a fixation so to speak. So what you just described is neither heterosexual nor homosexual, it's just repressed heterosexuals (and closeted homosexuals) desperately trying to expand the heteronormative boundaries they put on themselves. It's like Chistians who think that if you're not moving your pelvis it isn't sex. Just bending the arbitrary rules they were forced to hold sacred, either by their parents or peers.
No.10772
>>10767>They find it much more disgusting than dick sucking or ass sex.Now you're just making shit up.
No.10773
>>10769>There will never be an openly gay fascistYes. Because they'll get stoned in the circles they hang out in.
It's not because fascism is incompatible with homosexuality that gay fascists are in the closet. Rather, gay fascism is hated by other fascists themselves, they are treated by other fascists like how anti-fascists treat fascists.
So basically, gay fascism is so hated by fascists it can almost be considered fully seperate from fascism. But it's more precise to say that gay fascists themselves are seperate from other fascists since even when they are tolerated they are viewed as "useful idiots" who will get gassed the moment the neo-Nazis come to power.
No.10774
>>10770I dont think its artificial, its just a supplement to what being heterosexual is. All heterosexual males are homophobic, because gay love is disgusting to them. Its not something "cultural", its part of nature's design. Thats why homophobia has always existed.
When you get closeted gays overperforming their repression you get the worst homophobia, because to be as straight as possible is to be as homophobic as possible (which we see in fascism, that also languishes in homoeroticism)
We see too that often the most brutal cops are black, because they are proving themselves to the system by being the most of what a cop is.
I dont mean to say youre completely wrong tho, but i would like some elaboration.
>>10771Literally who?
>>10772No, its true. Two men kissing is the most disgusting act to straight men.
No.10775
>>10773>So basically, gay fascism is so hated by fascists it can almost be considered fully seperate from fascism. But it's more precise to say that gay fascists themselves are seperate from other fascists since even when they are tolerated they are viewed as "useful idiots" who will get gassed the moment the neo-Nazis come to power.So we basically agree, there can never be political representation of "gay fascism", because its an oxymoron
No.10778
>>10767This point about gay kissing is the ultimate proof imo. Straight men have no problem with anal sex (i.e like in prison) because it can be viewed from a post-ironic or hierarchical lens; sincere homosexual affection however is like poison to them
No.10779
>>10777It does not bother me at all, does that mean… I'm gay??
No.10780
>>10779Idk. Tell me about urself.
No.10782
>>10709Thinking in terms of "communities" is rarted. I always see people talking about the "femboy community" having an "X problem" as if the "trans community" fucking doesn't.
No.10783
>>10777i have this reaction towards anyone kissing near me irl tbh
No.10784
>>10782Its different problems though
No.10785
>>10750im repressor on hrt gang
getting into dresses and makeup very slowly tho
No.10786
>>10750i am post-repression
Or you could say i have passed through the five stages of grief
It only took a mental breakdown and the destruction of my family ties
No.10787
I AM NOT VALID!
No.10789
>>10788ur posting hate in the lgbt thread, clearly u r the one mad here
No.10790
>>10789I thought love is love
Chaser love is still love
No.10791
>>10788Fetishization may lead to the softening of the heart and to human rights as a consequence. But then again, fascists deny human rights to pretty much everyone.
And so do Marxists and posties, huehuehue. No.10792
>>10791Soften your heart, harden your cock
No.10794
>>10791>Fetishization may lead to the softening of the heart and to human rights as a consequenceguys that watch porn are known for being feminists
No.10795
>>10777Does not mean they don't have the same exact reaction towards a dude doing a deepthroat, that proves literally nothing.
>heterosexual menmfs essentializing cishets again. It's called "heteronormative," not "heterosexual."
>>10697Joakim Phoenix is the reincarnation of Giles Deleuze, change my mind.
>>10782>Thinking in terms of "communities" is rartedBlame liberal intersectionalists. The moment when you assign "essential" qualities to a group of people is the moment you become retarded. Yes, this applies to the Old Left too ("counter-revolutionary" and "bourgeois" are common buzzwords that are thrown around ad nausium).
No.10796
>>10794>guys that watch porn are known for being feministsI said "may." Please, don't make unfunny sarcastic jokes ever again.
No.10797
>>10784lots of white trans that are racist as fuck and think they get a free pass for being queer around
No.10798
>>10794everyone masturbates to porn
No.10799
>>10704same with "femboy" or "daddy" lol, calling someone else that is fine but calling yourself one is embarrassing
No.10800
>>10799"mommy" too, to be fair and egalitarian :^)
No.10801
>>10796 (me)
Also, I'm not exactly sure how you can fap to femboys and hate them guts at the same time unless you have some hatefuck fetish or are repressing your feelings (like with the BBC meme getting posted all the time on 4chinlet). Porn will not make you a feminist but it may make you more tolerant of queer people. Because you have to be.
No.10802
>>10788>>10791I see this word thrown around a lot, being fetishized is just being seen as nothing more than an object to satisfy someone else's sexual desires. Many times the meaning gets stretched too closely into feminist "AGP" discourse.
No.10804
>>10799Not a femboy but I disagree. If you really look like a femboy then why not state the obvious? And if you're not allowed to call yourself a femboy then why claim that you're "male" or "female," even if your AMAB or AFAB? If something is trivial or obvious then I see no reason not to acknowledging it. Especially if you're trying to be
Astolfo a femboy.
No.10805
>>10803ELON MUSK IS THE FATHER OF THE GAMERGATE MASCOT???
No.10807
>>10805>GAMERGATE MASCOT?????
No.10808
>>10782As if the "hetero" community exist. Or the society community. Like be real. The queer community are far from being "a community". They are very atomized and interwoven in hetero/normative society.
>>10798I don't. I masturbate to artistic nudity
(ripped onlyfans content and shitty webcam footage) No.10809
>>10802There was a meme that heterosexuality is a breeding fetish. So I assume liking femboys is a girldick fetish? I honestly have no idea.
No.10810
>>10769This anon is more correct.
>>10768Fascism isn't inherently homophobic like it isn't inherently racist or antisemitic.
No.10812
>>10786So are you still repressing or trooned and regretting it?
My family is the only thing I have so I can't really troon its basically a death sentence.
No.10813
>>10808That's the point I'm making. Most people approach sexuality and gender like any given identity is part of a conglomerate hivemind.
No.10814
>>10808>As if the "hetero" community exist. Or the society communityThat's because society is a SPOOK. BLAM!
>The queer community are far from being "a community". They are very atomized and interwoven in hetero/normative society.I was saying the same thing before too.
>artistic nudityI came even while reading this. The time has come. And so have I.
No.10815
>>10810>Fascism isn't inherently homophobic like it isn't inherently racist or antisemitic.Ha! Good one.
Think about what youre saying.
No.10816
>>10815I mean, he's right. Fascism is basically totalitarian ultranationalism. Earlier fascists were futurists before ᴉuᴉlossnW kicked them the fuck out.
That doesn't mean that 99.99% of them aren't homophobic. Quite the opposite.
No.10817
>>10813the problem people often encounter is that they are noticing a type of annoying person. we get so trapped in politicizing things that we forget oh sometimes people are just fucking annoying. it weirdly helps you be at peace with someones whole thing when you can be like oh its not some part of their identity… theyre just annoying
moving between several different kinds of queer groups and finding the exact same annoying personalities in each one really helped me realize that like oh some people are just like that and identity doesnt really affect it
No.10818
>>10812I guess you never stop repressing, but i have decided that i am going to live as a man and thats it. But obviously some part of me hopes for an impossible turnaround, but i know it wont happen.
My family never supported me so i never supported myself and after years of doubt and craziness i decided to give up. Its better this way.
No.10819
>>10816>Fascism is basically totalitarian ultranationalismWhich is inherently racist, homophobic and antisemitic. Get out of theory land for a second and see what every nationalist believes.
No.10820
>>10812Not trans but if you have conservative parents while having a progressive or post-leftist worldview then you need to RUN!! RUN, MY FRIEND, RUN!! SAVE YOURSELF FROM THE PAIN!! BEING A CISHET WON'T EVEN HELP YOU, THEY SPARE NOONE!!
No.10821
>>10812>My family is the only thing I havewhats the point when you have to live like this?
No.10822
>>10820IDK I'm sure boomers could agree with the bullshit nihilism of post-left
No.10823
>>10819>That doesn't mean that 99.99% of them aren't homophobic. Quite the opposite.<proceeds to ignore these two sentencesImageboard discussions be like.
No.10824
>>10823Arguably Israel is fascist and (somewhat) pro-LGBT
No.10825
>>10824they just arent homophobic towards anyone whos part of the ethnostate
No.10826
>>10825Well yeah but if you hate both gay and straight Palestinians equally it's not really homophobic
No.10827
>>10822>IDK I'm sure boomers could agree with the bullshit nihilism of post-leftNo. Boomers are moralistic and clinging to fixed ideas like patriotism/nationalism, law and religion. What you'll get is a tirade like that of Marx or the guy Stirner was responding to in The Philosophical Reactionaries.
Obviously secular humanists will blame nihilism for everything, nihilism is their favorite boogeyman and the thing they understand the least. Not to mention that post-leftism generally leads to a pro-LGBT position anyway so it makes no difference to a conservative whether you are a postie or a liberal.
No.10828
>>10678>Don't they have anything better to do with their life?No, they are petite bourgeois so their political expression amounts to critique of minorities
No.10829
>>10682>cis bi girl im arranging a hookup with said "woman or trans woman">is this a bad sign or is she just a little awkwardits pretty obvious shes transphobic
No.10830
>>10824>Arguably Israel is fascist and (somewhat) pro-LGBTLet's stop pretending it's possible to be "pro-LGBT" if you are fascist, since LGBT people are first and foremost proletarian, and Israel is not pro-proletarian, so that means they are actually anti-LGBT, just as they are anti-human
No.10831
>>10682>said "woman or trans woman"was this a question or what
No.10832
>>10830incredible framework you got there man, super useful. going to guess youre the poster going "its impossible for a fascist to not be racist"
No.10833
>>10828>they are petite bourgeoisAmazing class analysis, comrade.
<inb4 calling me a petit bourgeois as well No.10834
>>10830Any identity is going to be "first and foremost proletarian", lol.
No.10835
>>10830Israel tolerates gay Israelis, the fact they hate everyone of other ethnicities/nationalities is besides the point
No.10836
>>10830I guess we need to distinguish what pro-LGBT means. Israel and Hillary Clinton are both pro-LGBT in the liberal sense, but are anti-LGBT emancipation in a Marxist sense.
No.10837
>>10819Are you ignoring how Portuguese fascism was not racist?
No.10838
>>10819 (sorry to double post)
If you think of fascism as merely a cultural imposition, meaning racism and homophobia/misogyny, or as the other anon said, simply ultra nationalism, then I think that analysis is really poor. What distinguishes revolutionary patriotism with fascism? French or Mexican revolutionaries in the 1900s vs Nazis, Italian fascists? Were the Mexican revolutionaries that hated the Chinese fascism?
I think if we're to have a useful description of fascism, it's to be way more concrete than merely something that is magically inherently racist, antisemitic, or whatever. What are the concrete conditions that arise and perpetuate fascism? Something way more deep than merely cultural perception.
No.10839
>>10838>simply ultra nationalismFirstly, I said "totalitarian ultranationalism," which implies the merging of the state with the bourgeois class and an open terror on the working class, with secret police, mass executions and so on. Secondly, ultranationalism is not just nationalism, let alone patriotism. Ultranationalism's other name is "national chauvinism."
No.10840
>>10820>>10821I just focus myself job and then drink myself senseless when I'm not on the clock, it's not healthy but it beats sleeping under and overpass or being locked in the mental hospital. I envy you zoomer queers, I really do. But when my family found out I got molested I got a beating so bad I didn't go to school for a week, I don't want to find out what happens if they find out I want to be a woman. Sometimes you just have to accept you don't get to be happy, and it's fine.
No.10841
>>10839Isn't totalitarianism an invented word by that colonialist disgusting pig Hannah Arendt?
Also, didn't Losurdo have a definition of fascism as "colonialism turned inward"? That seems more appropriate and goes in line with national chauvinism. Authoritarianism has always been a feature of capitalism, I don't see it being particularly unique under fascism.
No.10843
>>10839 (me)
I'd also say that fascism is characterized by militarism, imperialism and a perpetual state of a permanent war, even a cult of war. Fascism is inherently opposed to the class analysis and left-Hegellianism, positing the Nation as the historical subject. Fascism is right-Hegellianism on crack, cocaine, meth and other illegal substances.
No.10844
>>10841>totalitarianism is made-upGreat. We're arguing over words again. Never change, Leftypol.
I would claim America has its own elements of totalitarianism, with surveillance capitalism and its own Gestapo (FBI and CIA). And the American government does love to crack down on protesters and worker strikes, too.
No.10845
>>10843 (me)
Wait, did I just basically say "cocaine" two times?
No.10846
>>10844Can you name a capitalist government that isn't totalitarian?
No.10847
Saw a gif the other day of a guy beating a "femboy" cosplayer face on fbi.gov and a screenshoot of "femboy" nazi on twitter complaining that his mother bashed him for being gay, dont know if it sad or funny when those mfs interact with hardcore homophobes irl that don't care if its "not gay".
No.10849
>>10845Crack usually refers to freebase cocaine and has different chemical properties, useful for being smoked rather than inhaled.
>>10848-__-
Be serious lol
>Stateless in Somalia, and Loving Ithttps://mises.org/library/stateless-somalia-and-loving-itClassic
No.10850
>>10842I came out like 7 years ago to my mother who i told not to tell anyone. Ofc she tells my asshole dad. She tries to make herself the victim of *my* mental illness. I move to my grandmothers and write a short diary. My grandmother reads it and tells my mother (there were private sexual fantasies in it). I lose all trust with my family. You can tell my parents dont trust me around my younger siblings and think im a pedo or something. Soon i become homeless and my family abandon me.
I get hooked up with a hostel and spiral into psychosis. I get moved out of there into another shelter after.
Later i get my own place. Im going through stages of repression just to cope being around my mother who sometimes visits but i can tell she hates my company. She wont take any responsibility for the pain she's caused me, for rejecting who i am as a human being. Time goes on and i still go in and out of repression just to cope. I have some suicide attempts which fail.
I have a complete emotional breakdown.
I start coping with religion and become christian. I "forgive" my parents and feelings of dysphoria start to go away for a time.
Soon i stop lying to myself and figure out religion is nonsense.
Realise its too late to start hrt and become a woman. I would just be a hon, or boymoder with tits if i started.
Time goes by and im here now, accepting my fate.
There are more details obviously but thats the outline. Im past acceptance.
No.10851
>>10850It's never too late, how old are you?
No.10852
>>10851It is too late
Im 25
Im not into hugboxing and all that crap
I missed my chance
No.10853
>>10850Babes, you've done great for yourself so far. You've survived through horrible shit. It's time to slowly build a life for yourself of stability and independence. You can do it. And your "it's too late" is nonsense. Your framing is one of shame and self-hatred. Stop trying to be trans for others and be trans for yourself.
You can do it. It will take a lot of time and consistent effort but you'll be so fucking glad you did.
No.10854
>>10846One can say that we live in a crypto-totalitarian world in a sense that the methods of punishment and control became more subtle than in the Nazi Germany or the fascist Italy to the point where the people don't think of their government as totalitarian. This is the genius of the late-stage capitalism because it managed to make the first-world proles believe that they're freer than in non-"democratic" states. But this is also what scares me since it leaves us radicals completely powerless before the omnipresent state machinery.
Maybe Ted was right…
No.10855
>>10852Lmaooo one of my best friends came out at 26. She was a fat, very hairy, thick thick hair, self-loathing gamer guy. Shy and frustrated. Now she's a completely different person. Such a joy to be around.
Your judgement is clouded by your shit situation and ignorant youth.
No.10856
>>10854Can you name a government before the Nazis, during modernity, that wasn't totalitarian?
>maybe Ted was right Maybe you need to read more theory :P
No.10857
>>10852I mean look, sure, you probably won't look as good as if you transitioned at like 14 but you're still pretty young and there's still plenty of time to become girl-like, I'm not an expert - besides if you already hate your male body then isn't it an improvement regardless?
No.10859
>>10854>crypto-totalitarian>punishment and control were at their worst in all of human history in Italy and Germany>late-stage capitalism>Maybe Ted was rightThis post seems carefully crafted to piss off anyone who actually reads, lmfao.
No.10860
>>10852>25 is too oldinternet brain rot
No.10861
>>497064
not clicking on your faggy link, how about posting an actual description dickhead
No.10862
>>10861it's a polandball thing
No.10863
>>10824>Arguably Israel is fascist and (somewhat) pro-LGBTIsrael is pro-Israeli. Bombs and bullets kill LGBT+ Palestinians just as much as their straight counterparts.
No.10864
>>10859>This post seems carefully crafted to piss off anyone who actually reads, lmfaoMy layers of contrarianism are beyond your comprehension.
No.10865
>>10864Contrarianism to whom? Not to be rude, and I'm not that anon, but your post suggests you're not familiar with leftist theory and are thus repeating liberal ideology. You're contrarian to leftists, perhaps, but not contrarian to the dominant ideology.
No.10866
>>10865I do not support liberalism just because I use words that sound "unleftist," that's not a proper criticism.
No.10867
>>10866Words don't just "sound" unleftist. They relate to concepts that are antithetical to leftism. My criticism of using words created by Hannah Arendt aren't as important as me pointing out how these words are meaningless, which you seemed to not realize or not care about. Totalitarianism as a concept was invented to lump Nazis and communists together while conveniently sparing all liberal countries from any criticism. As I briefly pointed out, by even Arendt's criteria or your own (regarding secret police and repression), evidently there's never been a state that's not been totalitarian!
Which, again, shows you're not familiar with leftist theory since this observation is a pretty basic one. Again, I'm not trying to be rude. We're on an anonymous imageboard. There's no point in posturing.
No.10868
>>10867>by even Arendt's criteria or your own (regarding secret police and repression), evidently there's never been a state that's not been totalitarian!That's kinda my point though! The US government simply pretends to not be totalitarian while it's just as privacy-violating and oppressive to its own people as the Nazi Germany.
My remark about Ted was due to the state becoming even more pervasive with the creation of the information technology and the CIA is actively infiltrating and dismantling far-leftist circles. Sometimes you just want to say "Screw it!" and just destroy everything out of the hopelessness of it all.
No.10869
>>10868 (me)
Although I'm not sure the US is mass-executing leftists… yet.
No.10870
>>10868I see what you mean. For me personally, the totalitarian label is rendered useless, since it applies to all states from antiquity till today. But it's true that contemporary states are quickly advancing the technology, methodology, and extend of their control apparatus. As others have noted, it seems that capitalism has a fractal of systems of control, with the control being delegated even to the controlled subjects themselves to great effect.
No.10871
>scrolled femboys on reddit for 20 minutes
It's over, innit?
No.10873
>>10872I am paranoid, what other fucking word was I supposed to use to describe my feelings? You're just pedantic.
No.10874
>>10873Pervasive? I dunno
Don't have a cow, man
No.10875
>>10874YOU'RE BEING
FUCKING
PEDANTIC
No.10876
>>10875So what
I'm still right, you're wrong
touch gr/ass
No.10877
>>10876>/leftypol/'s autistics can't into hyperbolesNO U
No.10878
>>10877This ain't leftypol either, faggot/straggot
No.10879
>>10878It is related to /leftypol/, retard/smartass.
No.10880
>>10879But what's the point of calling someone "leftypol [x]" derisively? Like there is any congruence in the "users" of the "site".
No.10881
>be me yesterday
>sucking dick of this really hot twink
>enjoying it, like it's my raison d'être
>suddenly get bored
>guy is still there
<now what
Hate it when that happens. On a positive side note, I knew he had to go in a couple of minutes so I just sent him on his way on time.
No.10882
>>10881>now whatGo faster.
No.10883
>>10880>But what's the point of calling someone "leftypol [x]" derisively?That didn't happen. I assume many people here also sit on the main board however. Even I visit it from time to time.
No.10885
>>10884Why would you be on this site if you don't ever interact with the main board? Are you a rightoid?
No.10886
>>10885You expect me to dignify that with a response, you left-leaning parasite?
No.10887
>>10886>leftists are parasitesCope, Randoid. The bourgeoisie are the real parasites.
No.10889
>>10888Then you're just a retard.
No.10890
>>10889Actually I am very smart and it is in fact you that is deficient
No.10891
>>10890>Actually I am very smart and it is in fact you that is deficientInternet argument moment.
No.10892
>>10852Peyton Manning was approaching 30 before they started their transition and they are doing alright now.
No.10894
them/they/theym/Thyme
No.10895
>>10812>>10852I just tried to kill myself a few days ago and really just wish I'd not lived, like I want to die more than ever, and I've been staring down being homeless again with absolutely nowhere to go because I have no one. my family are all conservative assholes and I fantasize about killing them for everything they've done to me, I've fucked things up with everyone who has ever given a shit about me, and I've been spiraling deeper and deeper into insanity.
I still wouldn't have it any other way. not having transitioned is an impossible concept to me. do whatever you want, experience has taught me that repressors never change or listen to anyone, but take it from some random anon with a similarly shitty life: anything but repression.
No.10896
>>10892Girl, you mean Chelsea Manning surely. Lmao. Peyton Manning is some NFL superstar.
>>10895I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. I'm sorry to ask so bluntly too, but what are your steps in order to gain security both housing and economic security?
Is there anything you can do to help yourself? Are you employed?
I don't want to impose but I want from the bottom or my heart for you to get better and feel better.
No.10897
>>10895Don't you have a job? I hope your situation improves…
No.10899
>>10898kill twitter users, behead twitter users, roundhouse kick a twitter user into the concrete, and so on
No.10900
>>10898this isn't related but I must be going insane. wasn't this woman involved in a biotech-related vc scam like 6 years ago? with these other 2 women
No.10901
>>10898i was in a fbi.gov server where she apparently called another user the n word in voicechat
No.10902
>>10898im ngl I laughed at this. peak twitter user brainrot
No.10903
>>10898What point is this even trying to make? I mean how does B follow from A here?
No.10905
>>10904well, probably the person originally making the accusation was making it up, but that's like the main memory i have of this person who i used to be in a fbi.gov with
it was one of those right-wingers pretending to be "schizo" type fbi.govs too
No.10906
>>10898I feel like this is a joke but ig you can't be sure these day
No.10908
>>10840I mean if you are an adult, cant you just move away, into a city? Like Jesus, why would you even tolerate presence of family like that.
No.10909
>>10908$100K+ jobs don't grow on trees.
No.10910
>>10909The grow in Computer Science departments.
No.10911
Guys.
Is liking traps gay?
No.10912
>>10911As a gay guy, no, but it depends on what you like about them, there may be specific ways of liking traps which are (closeted/latently) gay.
I think liking traps might also be distinctly bi.
In certain contexts liking traps could be bi, gay or straight, even lesbian.
No.10913
>>10912>In certain contexts liking traps could be bi, gay or straight, even lesbianThat's not even wrong but functionally useless.
No.10918
>>10914They're guys, and that's good.
Guys, if they're interested in makeup or cute dresses or whatever, should go into it regardless of their gender.
No.10919
>>10918I wear makeup as a man. If you want it to look masculine/male gender confirming, you have to make it subtle.
I also recommend doing all the skin care routines. Plus taking some supplements by pills, but I'm gatekeeping that info for now :)
No.10920
these generals always sucked ass. /siberia/ is an incel shithole, not a gathering place for lgbt people
No.10924
>>10920its almost like identity has almost no 1:1 correlative bearing on personality
No.10926
is he flirting with me or is he just extra friendly
No.10927
>>10923I love that article. Hahahaha
>>10926Probably just being friendly. Try touching his arm for just a second. If he responds in kind then yes otherwise no.
No.10928
>>10926also, it's not uncommon for gays to use flirting as a way to make friends in hetero spaces. Meaning they might be extra friendly to signal they are also gay and should feel comfortable with you.
Also, who doesn't flirt with anyone new they meet, regardless of gender or interest hehehe
No.10929
>>10927>>10928He definitely looked for me to talk. He would put his hand on me and hold it. He didn't mind when I gently grabbed his behind when we were dancing haha he even leaned kinda into it.
No.10930
>>10920excuse you sweaty but it's possible to be both LGBT and an incel
No.10932
tbh ever since ive known it was nyx posting with the anarcho-nihilist flag, ive lost a lot of respect for her
No.10934
>>10932I mean, you haven't read her blog or The Blackpaper? There's nothing she said that changed. She holds the same exact opinions.
No.10935
>>10934I just thought she'd be more mysterious or discrete
No.10937
>>10929You have your answer then. That's cute. Where did you go yesterday?
No.10938
>>10935>I just thought she'd be more mysterious or discreteNah, her essentialism was pretty obvious. She's a smart person but she really should drop this moralistic worldview.
No.10940
>>10938Sounds interesting. Why not just do a data drop instead of a passive-aggressive performative conversation?
No.10941
>>10940I'm not passive-aggressive, I hold no grudge against Nyx.
No.10942
>am nyot passive-aggwessive
>abloo bloo
>bleeh
No.10943
I found out about nyx partially against my will, and their blog is meh, but black gray flag poster is good on my book. I've never seen them post essentialist nonsense and in fact agreed the other day with my statement that not a single "real" woman/man has existed in the history of humanity.
No.10944
Why is everyone calling n1x Nyx?
No.10946
>>10942Don't be so childish.
>>10943I'm not saying she doesn't have based takes but she still seems to have that "straight/masc bad, queer/femme good" dichotomy that's widespread in the modern feminist discourse. That's no post-genderism.
No.10947
>>10946Ah. I see. It's common in queer spaces to shun masculinity. One of my comrades got cancelled in a communist org because he was "too masc", I shit you not. The nicest, least harmful motherfucker you've ever met. But he was buff and went to the gym.
No.10948
What I really need right now is for some big dicked ladyboy to shove her fat she-cock right down my throat.
No.10949
>>10948Get on Grindr then boy
No.10950
>>10949Nah fuck that I ain't no homo
No.10951
>>10950>Nah fuck that I ain't no homoWhat are you, a heteronormatard? GET INTO THE FUCKEN GRINDR.
No.10952
>>10950Deepthroating grindr ladyboys doesn't make you gay.
No.10953
>>10950There's trans women on grindr and straight men who look for them.
No.10954
>>10952Why would one even care about being straight if not because of internalized heteronormativity? It doesn't matter, nobody will ever know, it's your private life.
No.10955
>>10954Well fair enough. I have no use for any penises as I have no use for most vaginas. The anon was saying he wants to suck "she-cock" but was worried about being "homo."
No.10956
>>10955>The anon was saying he wants to suck "she-cock" but was worried about being "homo."The anon is spooked. The condition of being straight is not something one actively chooses. It's something we are born into, whether it's genetics, conservative environment or the heterosexual hegemony (it's rather unclear which of them has more or less influence). Actively reinforcing straightness is a sign of heteronormativity and/or reactionarism which should be otherwise absent or a simple defense mechanism (maybe the anon is trying to cope with conservative societal expectations?).
No.10957
>>10956 (me)
>heteronormativity and/or reactionarismI meant "heteronormative reactionarism." Because heteronormativity can be a psychological issue rather than an ideological one. Actively reinforcing straightness is heteronormativity even if it's just a defense mechanism.
No.10958
>>10957 (me)
So basically, psychological heteronormativity is a fear of breaking societal expectations of one's sexuality and ideological heteronormativity is a reactionary opposition to any non-straight sexuality. There. So a straight person can be heteronormative because of the fear of their parents or an awkward feeling of biting a "forbidden fruit" or doing something that feels weird. Or they can be heteronormative because they actually genuinely believe in that they're ought to not be queer, which obviously leads to queermisia.
No.10959
>>10958 (me)
You know, maybe cishets are repressed bisexuals. The best we can do is help them accept their sexual desires for what they are. In that regard cishets are not that different from queers, they're also afraid of social pressure and bullying. Queer liberation is straight liberation, too.
ONE STRUGGLE. No.10960
>Ja so sagen wir auch in deutschland
>Ein bisschen Bi schadet nie
>I am a tomatoooo
No.10962
this shitty thread feels a lot like twitter except it isnt even funny at times
No.10965
>>10963nice, someone saved my stupid ass translation. this is from his early career btw, that many germans consider funny as opposed to his current conservatoid freeze peach grift.
i think there are two great camps of german comedy: descriptive comedy about the absurdity of real events (or made up realistic events) and ideological comedy that performatively engages with an idea, thereby not only deriving humor from its immediate absurdity, but also affirming it in its mere consideration.
this is not to say that all exploration of reactionary thought is reactionary in itself, yet that this particular type of absurdist humor may be used propagandisticly. in the joke we see several instances of this:
>indifference to diet>scientific facts trumped by appeals to common sense>voluntary unhealthiness of most of the population>generalizations about the sexes>treating animals as undeserving of compassion>comparing heightened states of consciousness with the experience of chickensall of these points appear wrong by a varying degree, while still existing as commonly held opinions and being presented in an argument for them. i think you can see the essential similarities to his 'consider turning off the heating in your child's room when they talk about climate change' joke.
No.10966
>>10962>this shitty thread feels a lot like twitter except it isnt even funny at timesYou're giving Twitter too much credit. And it's so 2016 to compare things to Twitter, all the radlibs have moved to Mastodon, we need to harass the Mastodon userbase instead. Pretty sure Xitter is basically moderate /pol/ now. Kinda like Truth Social.
No.10968
>>10967but she actually does have a receding hariline…
does this person think black people actually look like monkeys?
No.10969
>>10967Is she implying that black people actually resemble monkeys but it is rude to point it out? Because if so then that's fucking insane
No.10970
>>10968Maybe she's in denial and thinks her hair is literally perfect.
No.10971
>>10969There's a lot of white liberals who do unironically think all the same things as /pol/ but consider it rude to say in mixed company.
No.10972
>>10968>>10969>do black people actually resemble monkeys?I mean kinda, which was about the only physical basis for racist pseudo-science. Selection bias aside, there are generally more black people with an elongated skull shape resembling that of an ape, not that it impacts anything beyond appearance. The vast majority of the world population looks ugly according to burger socialization in one way or another.
Just clearing that up, otherwise
>>10967 is incomprehensible to me.
No.10973
>>10972I don't think monkeys resemble humans of any ethnicity my guy
No.10974
>>10971It's more like they want a gold star for not saying it like in:
>>10967>I could be saying uyghurs look like a bunch of smelly apes right now but I'm NOT No.10975
Luv
No.10976
>>10973Touche. I guess associating an elongated skull with apes is also angloid brainrot.
No.10977
>>10976I mean I've seen people comparing them to white people because of the thin lips but that's also an absurd comparison imo. Not to sound like a democrat voter but there's only one species of human, we're all pretty much the same organism genetically speaking
No.10979
>>10967stop looking at shxitter
No.10980
>>10978how the fuck am i supposed to read that map?
No.10981
>>10967Racist trans person, of course…
No.10984
>>10983you have to go back
No.10986
channer gays aren't beating the nazi allegations huh
No.10987
>>10982comparing your enemies to primates as if all humans arent primates anyways is creationist cope
No.10988
>>10982This is probably some pseudo whignat bullshit but if its true that would possibly explain why so many cultures around the world deliberately elongated the cranial structure of their ruling classes. (I.e with Huns and Mayans). Possible atavistic genetic memory stemming from the days when we were still Great Apes roaming the savannah?
No.10989
>>10988Shieet actually meant for
>>10972 No.10990
>>10988i once came across some phrenological article online that talked about how longer skulls are actually a "white" trait
mfers need to get their story straight
No.10991
>>10988>>10990The basis for cranial shaping is probably a lot simpler. It permanently and obviously marks you as a member of a caste. Ruling classes have always tried to stand out from the rabble. Making yourself look uncanny is pretty normal, whether it's skull shaping or wearing elaborate costumes.
Also, humans tend to get neurotic about controlling things so they don't feel like scared creatures in a big indifferent world. It's relatively easy to shape a baby's skull because it's soft, and once a culture starts doing it they're unlikely to stop since someone with a modified skull is going to want to do it to their own kids so they don't feel weird for being different. Many traditions follow this logic, including but not limited to body modifications.
No.10992
>>10987Well, if they portray blacks as monkeys because they're "less evolved" it's not a creationist cope. But if they say that humans aren't animals or primates it is.
It's funny how the Nazis are more accepting of the Darwinian theory of evolution than Christians.
No.10993
>>10947You know, maybe Nyx Land is Karl Marx. A genuinely smart and well-read person who has some weird berserk buttons, whether it's anarchists or straight men.
>Cisheterosexual males are petty bourgeois counter-revolutionary Fichtean idealist sexually perverted morbidly obese lumpenproletariat with Russian Ugro-Finnic characteristics. No.10994
>>10993 (me)
Please understand that Marx Land was born at a time period when hating on Russian cishet manarchists was considered normal.
No.10996
>>10995tell her privately, idk. be nice about it
No.10997
>>10995mind your business and let people have fun. you are describing totally benign behavior.
No.10998
>>10996YOUR ASS ISNT FAT. GOOD DAY
No.11000
>>10998i mean yeah, basically that
it's benign and the person who brought it up has no standing being annoyed, but might as well tell the girl to eat some more, cuz she's not as thicc as the internet simpbox is making her out to be. Help a bitch out, coddling is for people you don't like
No.11001
Can anyone tell me how to find comrades to hook up with, when there's 0 left scene in my city? Men who aren't communist, or at the very least pro-union and otherwise culturally left are super unappealing as they have no backbone or sense of self-preservation, much less any goodwill towards people different from themselves. also i keep being attracted to gay guys help
No.11003
>>11001I dunno, change gender?
No.11005
>>11001I feel you. Depends on where you live. Will sound silly but I think social media might be the way, like insta or twitter idk. You can also change an apolitical person over time if they're either empathetic to oppressed groups or curious and intellectually honest
No.11006
>>11001>Can anyone tell me how to find comrades to hook up with, when there's 0 left scene in my city?Depending on where you are, there might be very small numbers. Try to find any kind of community or group that's at least sort of adjacent to left wing politics. You might be able to find such a place through people you meet in an org or union.
>spoilerI can't blame you I mean look at them lol.
No.11007
>>11005>>11006thanks for the answers, I'll try left-adjacent things, we def have some of tht here tho i'm not really hooked in. There's lots of leftish p-bourg cultural stuff, like some music scene and punkish stuff but it's so diffuse
To the second anon: there's 0 orgs here, idk about unions but my workplace is like notoriously un-unionized, and they're following as hard as possible a union prevention playbook. They employ like >3k ppl locally tho. Hopefully we'll unionize eventually, the younger generation coming in seems to have a higher % of leftiness
No.11008
>>10997>let people have funholy reddit
No.11009
How are the gays doing tonight?
myself: saw a weird post on /hm/ last night that sent my spiraling haha
No.11010
>>11009ok, I'm seeing my boyf in a week
No.11011
>>11009I've been sexless for a while but happy. I don't want to seek out sex. I don't want to seek out partners or dating. I want kisses and cuddles with friends or whomever will have them. I kissed a straight male friend today. Why can't this be more common?
No.11012
>>10704>you shouldnt be able to self identify as a twink,Very patriarchical to make a person's identity subject to the desires of non-femme men. Patriarchy is when only males have an active, instrumental role in mediating sexuality with passive females (or twinks? I believe that term comes from 'Twinkie', as in the pale sweet dessert which men want to "pump full of cream"). The term husband is adjacent to 'animal husbandry' for the same reason, that it gives men all power and hegemony over the subjects of their gaze 👀
>same level of presumption as calling oneself an "entrepreneur."That's just the French word for "undertaking". Normal lower class people are actually taking risks to start a business, a rich nepo baby not so much
>>10791>Fetishization may lead to the softening of the heart and to human rights as a consequence"We need to transform people into commodity objects to liberate them from capitalist process of objectification" Dengists are like;
>>10966<post #500500 🫢
No.11013
>>11012>We need to transform people into commodity objectsI didn't say this, this is a stupid claim. And sexual attraction isn't commodification, it will happen whether capitalism is in place or not. I'm saying that those homomisists who encounter femboys will inevitably come into an internal conflict with their bigotry.
That doesn't mean that femboys should be turned into a product. I'm simply saying that it may lead the bigot to self-reflection.
No.11014
>>11013>femboys should be turned into a productWhere can I buy one?
Asking for myself.
No.11015
What does it mean when I fuck a guy and the inside of his asshole feels like a bag of peas against my dick?
No.11016
>>11015Frozen or normal peas?
No.11018
>>11017Could be rectal polyps maybe? Could be that your sexual partner wasn't clean? Who is this person to you?
No.11019
>>11018idk he was just some old guy i met on a bus.
No.11020
>>11019I'm going to guess polyps.
Anyone on PrEP? I feel like I don't have enough sex to warrant it, but maybe I should have some just in case?
No.11021
>>10995ive known some people like this who also love judging others but the moment they get any flack will call their simps to boost their self-esteem
>>11000>Help a bitch out, coddling is for people you don't likepreach
No.11022
>>11012>muh words affect realitylibs are yawn inducing
No.11023
>>11022i dont think that was ever said at any point in that post
taking the bait, however: it completely depends on context
No.11024
>>10992How would "white people" (extremely socially contingent category btw) be "more evolved"? Their only real achievement relative to the rest of humanity was in discovering capitalism first, which didn't really require any biological advantage. It's vulgar Darwinism.
No.11025
>>10696I love how I can come here and find all time classic images like this
No.11026
>>11024Oh now that it's against white people being vulgar is a problem suddenly.
You massive queer poofter.
Sorry lost my cool.
No.11028
>>11027most minorities seem to believe that class collaborationism with the richest amongst them will lead them to victory as it has in the past. but if class collaborationism won't work for white cishets, i don't see it working for minorities anymore either. just because it was necessary for rich gays to throw their money at funding charities for AIDS research or funding homeless shelter programs, doesn't mean it is anymore. the rich minorities have moved on and i think blaire white is a good example of how far rich people can go from anything resembling what every other member of the minority group believes.
No.11029
>>11028they also forget it was never a movement of bourgeois, conservative reformists only, it was radicals out there agitating and organizing and building community and engaging in previously impossible discourse, and that got the people in power and with money more engaged, and inevitably the people with resources at hand had a more immediate impact in things that money can fix… Even if reform is possible it shouldn't be the goal itself, the goal should be "power to the oppressed at any cost", and if that sparks reforms by conservatives, then good.
No.11030
>>11027b-but… dialectics tho? Hear me out. Our society atomizes individuals in order to facilitate oppression and exploitation. We can't just immediately form a (real, material) universal international proletarian bond; us coming together on the basis of various shared experiences and hardships is the first step that allows us to, afterwards, re-form, on the basis of a new, more scientific understanding of our own difficulties, as a whole proletarian community or identity.
No.11031
>>11030its cute you think atomization is something that happens because someone willed it
>le dialecticsstop using this word for anything
No.11032
>>11031huh?? did you mistake "our society" for a first and last name? Social dynamics can be resisted, if that's what you're trying to say thought. Just because atomization is the outcome of capitalist systems (and also intentional anti-communal policies if we be fully accurate), doesn't mean we can't resist atomization. That's like, the whole entirety of all liberatory politics.
And no I'll always use the word dialectic, fuckass. Now give me some gay love while you self-crit comrade
No.11033
my estrogenized boyclitty is stinging 😖
No.11034
>>11029>power to the oppressed at any costWhy are some people oppressed?
>Because of power structureSo you wish the change them, right?
>No, I want to change who hold the stick. That will solve oppression. No.11035
>>11034ok nice self-dialogue plato, but I'm going to answer your questions still because of my narcissistic needs
>Why are some people oppressed? Class society
>So you wish the change them [class society], right? Yes. Overthrow bourgeois rule by building the capacity for the working class to actually rule via robust democracy and mass political involvement, phase out capitalism and all of its social relations, usher in classless society.
No.11036
Has anyone used Lex? I made an account and there's some neat ppl on there. Some clowns too. It's only like 15 people tops tho in my area, I could probably meet them all in a few months if any are still online.
No.11038
>>110301. Dialectics are idealist.
2. Class is not an identity. It has the same problems with ostracism and essentialism when it becomes an identity ("eVeRyOnE WhO dIsAgReEs wITh mE iS a pEtIt BoUrGeOiS rEaCtIoNaRy REEEEEEEEEEEE!!").
No.11040
>>11036Downloaded it. It was mostly women (both cis and trans). I deleted it quickly after.
No.11041
>>11030>>11038>>11039It's absurd to me that anyone even uses the word "dialectics" today. At best it is used by pseuds to express something banal like "things change over time" or "things are part of a movement" which then begets the question "in what way?" and we could have simply jumped to the answer to this question in the first place which would have contained real knowledge of the matter.
No.11042
>>11039Dialectics are literally borrowed from Hegellianism and operate on Platonic ideals. And if you use it to analyse ideology instead of material conditions you're no dialectical materialist either.
No.11043
>>11042On that note 'dialectical materialism' is pure rubbish, complete bullshit to pretend that there is some magical predetermined method that can be readily applied to any object to obtain correct results without thoroughly investigating it. You cannot trace out anything from such abstractions.
It's ironic because what Marx criticized as upside down in Hegel's thinking is the same thing that morons will attribute to Marx and praise as his great advance over bourgeois idealism. No wonder so many are interested in defending philosophy and see Marx as a philosopher.
No.11044
>>11043Your passage is a critique of a Left Hegelian book critic. What differentiates Dialectical Materialism from purely speculative philosophy apart from subject matter is the fundamentally scientific approach. You couldn't have someone like Althusser evaluate Lenin's contributions to Dialectical and Historical Materialism based on the successes and failures of the Russian revolution otherwise.
No.11045
>>11044Dialectical materialism is not considered a scientific method and is not and was not accepted as a method of research by the scientific community, not even analytic philosophers. There's analytical Marxism that bases itself purely on histmat and sociology.
No.11047
I feel I could explain dialectics by the example of the "living object" (i.e. the queers), as it were
But I fear it may give the game away
Also, of course, I am lazy
No.11048
>>11047For me, in simple terms, Marxist dialectics is the epistemology (or way of viewing how knowledge is created and what knowledge is) that for one, it takes as a premise that things don't exist by themselves (in a vacuum or otherwise) and instead exist in relation to each other (also known as over-determination), and that systems tend to develop from "motors" that come from within the system, rather than from outside the system or out of thin air, and these "motors" are usually two or more things that are necessary for this system to exist, but these things exist in contraposition to each other. In the dynamic of these two or more things interacting with each other they both "drive" the system "forward" (like a motor of the system), but also in each iteration necessarily evolve (and usually as a direct result of the dynamic between the things, like a predator and prey evolving together). All of this analysis and way of thinking is also then applied to knowledge itself, as the "virtual" system that humans create as social beings (meaning that human knowledge is the product of humans and exists only virtually as a social phenomenon). Furthermore, this system of knowledge, as it is a product of society, is heavily dependent on the general culture that society has, meaning that knowledge isn't really ever "objective" as it is always mediated by a specific society in a specific historical time (in other words, humans in a specific culture are the medium of knowledge). In other words, knowledge is an element of society, it doesn't exist outside society. Even taking a step further, a specific society is the virtual system of specific real human actions. Thus so, these specific actions (like shoveling clay, or typing at a computer) are the motor of the virtual system/society of which knowledge is a part of, in other words, peoples actions re-create society every second, like a motor. The society of which culture, laws, etc are a part of then end up determining real human actions (like going to church or going to a protest). These concrete actions also end up affecting society, the thing that motivated them in the first place. And as such we found yet another "motor" of the system of society, one component being society determining human behavior, and the other being human activity determining society.
This is an example of how things are overdetermined, meaning that not only are things determined by other things, they are also determined by how they determine other things, in a loop, so to speak.
But, it's easy to think of these words in a snapshot. Remember that systems are in movement, and these overdeterminations or these motors are an inherent part of the system (they are the system itself). When we talk about evolution, about the predator eating the prey, we talk about many generations of the same dynamic repeating itself over and over with other constraints (or motors) also influencing the dynamic like access to food for the prey, or other predators. After many of these iterations, then we can appreciate differences between species A in year 0 vs evolved species B in year 300,000. There is no point at which an organism of species A had offspring of species B. In a similar manner, society, knowledge, and everything thus far mentioned, don't usually have sudden changes, even though it might appear so sometimes.
Change in society happens every single second, and ever so often does the fruit of the change bear it's head in the form of what appears to be some sort of societal turning point, but is in reality something that had been brewing for long before.
No.11049
>>11048Mixed up the analogies a bit, but hope that helps someone :)
No.11050
>>11038>>11042>>11043>>11045>t. rosa lichtensteinHave you updated your schizo site yet?
No.11051
>>11050No idea whom you're talking about.
No.11053
>>11050>everyone i dont like is the same personsome of those posts arent even making the same point you fucking retard
No.11054
>>11053>some of those posts arent even making the same pointThey are but you still have leeway in saying they're different people.
Either way, doesn't matter.
No.11055
>>11050I have no idea who you are even talking about and I'm only one of those quotes, too.
Leftoids for the past century have treated "dialectical materialism" as a mysterious vital force which leftists reflect upon with their inner eye to uncover hidden truths.
The "dialectical method" is complete horseshit. Mystical garbage. Insofar as Marx had a method, it was simply to appropriate the material in detail, to analyze its different forms of development, to trace out their inner connection. You don't get an inch closer to this by starting with empty abstractions like "contradictions".
No.11056
>>11055>I have no idea who you are even talking aboutIs okay, I believe you. Anglos are a hive-mind and inevitably come to the exact same beliefs even with zero interaction or osmosis between each other.
No.11057
>>11056I'm Indian. Do all channers always "argue" like this?
No.11058
>>11048<…the affirmative of religion is virtually a negative; its answer amounts to nothing,, since it solves the most various questions always with the same answer, making all the operations of Nature immediate operations of God…You see this kind of thinking everywhere. Take for example 'material forces', with which marxist wannabes explain absolutely everything, or 'the dialectic', which the more philosophically inclined resort to when they're unable to give any useful answer.
Dialectics is when things become other things, or when two people converse, or when nationalism is good actually, etc.
<God is the idea which supplies the lack of theory. The idea of God is the explanation of the inexplicable, – which explains nothing because it is supposed to explain everything, without distinction. No.11059
>>11057>she thinks im talking about race/inherent shit hereStill Anglo.
No.11061
>>11059Are you 12? Still arguing with fake quotes? Get an actual argument next time.
No.11062
>>11061alright i think you're not a real person at this point. these are ai generated responses designed as a cognitohazard to destroy the brains of leftypolers. you can say whatever you want but this is what i believe.
No.11063
>>11062I made plenty of actual points but leftypol is where brain cells go to die so you faggots can only reply with the same unfunny shit (and then accuse others of being le GPT).
No.11064
>>11045>>11046People who unironically think that a knowledge of 'dialectics' helps you master the world of subjects are just religious fanatics under a different name. A 'dialectic' that determines everything? Yeah man that's just god lmao.
The general notion that everything contains both internal and external contradictions, for example, doesn't allow me to understand why ice cream melts in the sun. You would have to actually examine the nature of ice cream and of sunlight themselves, and their interaction
If you try to impose a preestablished method upon the subject-matter, naturally you will only produce a version of the subject-matter modified by your method, by the apriori principles you have forced the content to conform to. That's why Marx's method wasn't really a coherent 'method' or set of steps, but rather the simple observation that one must study each object in detail, and allow it to 'speak for itself', as it were. It is, if you want, a critique of 'method'.
When Marx talks about 'his dialectical method', he means his mode of presentation. On his letter about Lassalle: '[Lassalle] will discover to his cost that it is one thing for a critique to take a science to the point at which it admits of a dialectical presentation, and quite another to apply an abstract, ready-made system of logic to vague presentiments of just such a system.'
The 'general form of working' refers to the fact that Hegel developed the general forms of thought, through which all content is appropriated. Hegel succumbs to apriorism, despite having condemned it himself, because he sees in all concrete things merely the manifestation of these forms. He stands things on their head, the real objects become mere forms for the logical categories.
>>11044The whole thing as described by MLs, especially trots and maoists, is total bunk and useless philosophical drivel. Insofar as it actually has a content, it is just describing proper scientific inquiry, i.e. appropriation and working-up of the subject-matter itself. No special knowledge of an abstract ‘dialectics’ is required for this.
No.11065
>>11047>>11048Read Althusser, or even Engels. Why people think it's important to merely point out that such-and-such a natural phenomenon can be categorized as a 'contradiction' or a 'unity of opposites' is beyond me. This phrase-mongering can't replace actual scientific investigation of the concrete object, sorry.
You can consider protons and electrons to be two poles of a contradiction. So what? How does that knowledge help you progress in your investigation of these things? People spend way too much time bloviating about shit that has no practical application. And yet we're still told that we need 'the philosophy of dialectical materialism', 'diamat', etc. to reach accurate scientific conclusions.
No.11066
>>11040IME it was mostly trans men
trans girls are less frequent
cis girls are few and far between
No.11067
>>11064>Insofar as it actually has a content, it is just describing proper scientific inquiry, i.e. appropriation and working-up of the subject-matter itself.Ultimately every formalism can be reduced to presentation, such as algebraic expressions in modern Math in relation to the ancient geometric treatises. Presentation alone, while not essential, can significantly enhance the practicality of a science.
While Hegelian philosophy spans all of Hegel's major work, the Logic largely contains what is described as the Hegelian method. This Hegelian method, the achievement with which Marx credits Hegel in elevating philosophy to a science, is functionally equivalent to what is commonly considered as "logic", yet near-exhaustively describes abstract human thought. To deny this is to cling to an outdated mechanistic materialism, that is still all to common in bourgeois philosophy.
No.11068
>>11058I mean, I see what you say all the time, but are you accusing me of doing it now?
Whenever I hear someone say "dialectical materialism" or explain a phenomenon using these words, or say "material conditions", I usually suspect there's some bullshittery going around. As well as " idealist" and other buzzwords by people who just want to fling insults with no substance.
>>11065Perhaps I was overzealous in my examples, but I don't believe I was. I don't think "applying the laws of dialectics" makes sense and even Engels seems to think so in his response to Herr Düring but perhaps contrary to his book.
What I'm proposing is quite modest and reasonable, and I think it can be demonstrated relatively easily. Do you disagree with something in particular?
No.11069
>>11048Ok, I was just gonna say, you know how there is proportionally more queer communists and that it works the other way around too.
No.11070
>>11053Correct, we are two different people.
No.11071
Do any of you girls have a fashion guide? My style is awwfuuul and I don't know anyone who will give me advice…
No.11072
>>11052Hm. I'm not even necessarily against dialectics. I'm simply sceptical of its ability to discover new knowledge and I'm especially sceptical of its metaphysical application since I dislike metaphysics a lot. Like, I'm not even a fan of analytic philosophy either (many of them refuse to analyze subjective experience unlike Stirner or Heidegger) but I don't really have much expertise in it and its claims of scientific rigor impress me since I still respect science very much. Though Wittgenstein seems to have deboonked it.
No.11073
>>11055Maybe Marxists are neo-Daoists or something? With all this yin-yang shit.
No.11074
>>11056>AnglosI'm not an Anglo, that's just a smear.
No.11075
>>11071I would recommend the fashion thread, for starters. Do you have social media, like insta or tiktok? If so, I would look for fashion influencers. Make sure they aren't people that seem to be buying expensive clothing. Some more your budget.
I can't say what you should wear because it really depends on what you want to wear.
>>11072Personally, I feel like I have a way more grounded view of science after getting into Marxism, and I also feel like I can "deduce" more stuff than sometimes even so-called experts in the field.
It really depends which field of course, but the Marxist mode of thinking feels like a scientific supercharged lens. That's just my experience. I realize that many Marxists even in this board are detached semi-schizo morons.
No.11076
>>11073“You’re tense, I’m calm. You apply excessive force; I control that force through fluid motion. That means relaxing the whole body so it can react instantly without resistance — no, without thought. Do you see now? It means becoming like clear water.” — Spike Spiegel
quoted from
https://redsails.org/on-dialectics/I am about as much Daoist as Dadaist or Buddhist or what have you. It's there in trace elements.
Mostly the makeup is about .5% hetero, 1% gay, 2% queer, 2.5% socialist, 94% noxious gas
No.11077
>>10666Where's the guys jerking off porn general? I'm horny af and want to unload watching hot men pleasing themselves
No.11078
>>11041for me its less that things change over time, and more the fact that things (which even may be considered opposite) are interconnected and overlap, yet remain discreet. It's about identity and non-identity (and their necessary interconnection), and abstract vs concrete. There's nothing idealist about it, but yeah the concepts of materialist dialectics are banal. Why can't we use a word to encapsulate multiple closely related banal concepts? The concept I was expressing with the word can also be encapsulated in the expression "the only way out is through", but 'dialectics tho' is shorter.
>>11043>On that note 'dialectical materialism' is pure rubbish, complete bullshit to pretend that there is some magical predetermined method that can be readily applied to any object to obtain correct results without thoroughly investigating itGIRL the method used is investigation, even Hegel knew that there is no universal logic, logic belongs to a specific domain, and this is part of the kernel of materialism in Hegel's dialectics, which Marx took and extrapolated on! It's just fucking science and investigation, but applied to logic because Hegel was a logician and Marx was autistic! BTW who is your quote from? Because is that not exactly the critique of idealist dialectics that diamat makes? You can't move from the ideal to the myriad things like Hegel tries to do. You have to actually interact with the world for that. Hence
material dialectics.
No.11079
>>11064why do people get so mad about the fact that dialectical materialism is just proper scientific inquiry, and thats a bad thing? As if most people don't know how to do science properly and don't need to learn; as if science isn't often done improperly, and a proper theory of science isn't needed; as if our understanding of 'proper science' fell out of thin air, and wasn't influenced by the philosophers, socialists, and class struggle! Just say that we're correct, and people who use dialectics to mean some overarching theory they deduce everything from are wrong. It's not lacking content for something to be talking about proper epistemology. That's hugely important and you make the choice to overlook it because you assume it's common knowledge or below you.
>People who unironically think that a knowledge of 'science' helps you master the world of subjects are just religious fanatics under a different name. A 'science' that determines everything? Yeah man that's just god lmao.Why do you conflate these two things: 1) a framework for investigation, a theory of knowledge, what's purpose is to understand the world, and 2) a theory where the ideal determines reality. It's sensible for people to fall under your first sentence, but the second is where the idealism (religious fanaticism) begins! wtf anon? you make me sad
>>11065all knowledge, thought, and language includes abstract conceptual unities. Pointing these out, and pointing out e.g. the limits of the unity of these concepts, or the degree to which a concept is abstracted or concretized, the nature of internal vs external threats to unity of a concept, and so on, are all important. Maybe more in the realm of meta-science, idk. It's helpful because the conceptual unities we are given by language are Ideology applied in science. When we say "here is a proton" that is an ideologically charged statement. It's not wrong for it, or less useful
(and just to bloviate some, this relationship to purity, assuming that everything starts from relatively impure or incorrect foundations but that through investigation (often including practice, experimentation) this can be hammered out more and more - that's a part of any dialectical theory, in this form specifically materialist though. Please put a mental point towards the usefulness of dialectics over bourgeois empiricism. It helps inform a correct scientific attitude :P) but it may help us be fluid in doing science to understand that our idea of where a thing starts and stops, or that it is 'fundamental', may be wrong. It's just a correct scientific attitude. Anyways when we do science we deal with the movement between reality as it exists and our knowledge of it (which is always mediated, and which is the realm of logic, aka why dialectics is relevant to science at all).
>>11071nah just own it, that's whats in rn. Bee urself
>>11077died
No.11080
>>11079Oh I like this guy, this guy's dangerous.
No.11081
virgins should be included in the LGBT umbrella
We're as sexually non-normative as any gay.
I want to have SЁX but I want it to be consensual and equitable and mutally enjoyable. I don't want to pay for it.
Which makes me basically a sexual deviant according to modern societal standards.
No.11083
>>11082Why did you post a picture of an underage child in response to my reply?
Are you some kind of pedophile or something?
No.11085
>>11084I'm not afraid.
Are you?
Let's meet up. And we'll discuss your pedophilia
In a civilized manner
No.11086
>>11085Yeah I live at 10 Downing Street, London, UK
No.11087
>>11086D ang, that's like, really far away
Ah fuck it
How bout this:
GO FUCK YLURSEEEEEAHLF
No.11088
>>11083>sees depiction of a minor>mind immediately goes to sexual abusei*cel moment
No.11089
>>11079also, the maybe one specific injunction by Marx as far as science goes is to concretize. It's not good science (or for Marx, really science at all) to simply take statistics and turn them into general rules or patterns. Science, for Marx, happens when we bring these into the fullness of all their dimensions; their implications, their interactions, their component parts that make the pattern hold (or break), their context, and so on. From there we can use our knowledge to make meaningful interventions in reality. This is absolutely relevant today when bourgeois, empiricist pop science is so widely published and has a stranglehold on what the average person thinks science is. There is still a struggle between good science and crap science, and Marx has been treated as a dead dog, absolutely on political grounds and undeservedly. Diamat will remain relevant so long as there is class struggle in the production of knowledge.
No.11090
>>11089Oh that reminds me, to the guy who said Diamat is bunk but Histomat isn't I have only this to say:
Diamat - Histomat - Kelomat
No.11091
How do I get two lesbians to use me as a walking dildo?
No.11093
>>11092>youre a fascist if you are a male>youre literally hitler if you are white maleI hate idpol so much its unreal.
No.11094
>>11092>she is upset some rabid transphobe's book getting beanedthe fucking moonie book? the unification church book?
No.11096
>>11094Sailor (((Moon))) ? 🤔 😳
No.11097
>>11079Can someone plz create a new one, only porn in siberia is straight*id, and furry shit
No.11099
>>11092Wtf. Transgenderism? Kadokawa? Sailor moon?
Is it worth it knowing the context of this drama.
No.11100
>>11079>diedSadge.
>>11097There's femboydom general still but its half-dead sadly.
No.11101
>>11081You're tangentially "queer" only in the sense that you have intense gender dysphoria of not fulfilling your perceived role as a man (having sex and being desired by women), and maybe due to your intensely alienated experience being so significant that it makes you feel as if you're being actively hounded, discredited, and disparaged like queer people actually are. Your lack of sex isn't the issue, of course.
But your "condition" makes you more susceptible to liberal or fascist ideology, since at it's core it is borne from it. For one, your social isolation makes you have completely detached perception of society, you essentially live in a fantastical world like fascists imagine Jews controlling stop signs or some shit. You've essentially made a contradictory but holistic world view that is centered around your individual experience, and particularly, around your individual grievances. Again, like many fascists/"far right" people.
Also, the central part of your "queerness", your gender dysphoria, is primarily centered around not adhering to the (perceived) gender expectation from society as well as the (perceived) gender endowment from society. In other words, your gender dysphoria centers around resentment for not being given what (you perceive) you're "rightfully" owed as man, as well as your high valuation of "traditional" (fantastical) gender norms.
The resolution of your gender dysphoria lies, of course, in the realization of "what you're owed", a life of a "True Traditional Man" with all the endowments it implies, which also implies the supremacy and primacy of the male gender.
Put yet another way, the resolution of your gender dysphoria lies in you no longer being emasculated, and castrated, instead you are given your right to wield a penis which you will use to exercise your right to dominate/own women, which will grant you value in society.
Ultimately, sure it's a queer experience, but one deeply rooted in the desire to conform more into exaggerated reactionary gender norms, which is contrasted to the usual queer people we know and love, who's main issue is diverging from gender norms.
No.11103
>>11101Isn't it the same for trans? Just with the other reactionary gender roles.
No.11105
>>11103Not quite, because trans people are generally expected to not be trans. They are imposed the role of being cis gendered and they are forced to rebel against it. Incels, on the other hand, do the opposite of rebelling against their (perceived) gender norms, they try to embody them as much as possible and the failure to do so causes dysphoria.
Note that merely fulfilling a gender norm isn't reactionary by itself, so even if trans people were 110% accepted in society, they would merely be fulfilling a gender norm, aka not be deviating from any gender norm. Traditionally, trans people are trying to fulfill the baseline gender norms expected of the opposite gender, and in doing so, are transgressing gender norms.
Near everyone experiences some level of queernes where they feel they fail to fully embody the gender expected of them. Which is why queer liberation benefits everyone.
Incel's problem lies with this same gender dysphoria but dialed up to an extreme level, their own self-perceived failure to fulfill an exaggerated, misogynist, male chauvinistic gender norm, which is largely a product of isolation, poor socialization, reactionary gender norms, among other social ills. They aren't rebelling against any gender norms.
This is also why, as gay men can be intensely misogynistic and macho. The failure to embody the masculine gender makes them want to compensate by internalizing reactionary gender norms, including homophobia.
There's also something to be said about how, as gay men are more accepted in society but having grown up in conservative environments, they also tend to adopt heteronormative lifestyles like marriage and child-rearing, as well as have negative views towards other queer people, particularly trans women.
No.11106
>>11078Culture wars are idealist because they prioritize the superstructure over the base and identity, like morality, is an opportunist spook, they are both intertwined. The point of Marxism is to abolish all classes and bourgeois identities, not reinforce them. Every other Marxism is vulgar and spooked. I kinda understand leftcoms in that regard except for them opposing self-liberation which includes resisting predators too (Nazis, homomisists, rapists, whatever). With violence, not with posts on Fedi. The material implication of the categories that were forced upon you by the social order (what you call """identities""") is being a target of reactionary violence, that's something marginalized groups cannot avoid regardless of how they identify, identity does not matter, not fitting into the category of "normal" does.
No.11107
>>10666As a gay guy, is it bad I outright avoid having any contact with straight males let alone try and have a friendship with them?
I don't feel comfortable among them, I couldn't ever be my true self near them, they also tend to be incredibly dumb, shallow and low I.Q speaking only of football, women, beer, gym and other crap I just cringe at, I almost never share any hobbies with straight males either except gaming which is my favorite and I also kind of have an addiction, it's almost impossible to have a constructive conversation with a straight male due to them being dumb and speaking using slangs, on top of that they're almost always right-wing
My friends have always been women of every sexuality and gay guys, am I just prejudiced? Is it bad to simply avoid straight moids?
No.11108
>>11107As a straight guy, is it bad I outright avoid having any contact with gay males let alone try and have a friendship with them?
I don't feel comfortable among them, I couldn't ever be my true self near them, they also tend to be incredibly dumb, shallow and low I.Q speaking only of sex, men, femboys, fashion and other crap I just cringe at, I almost never share any hobbies with gay males either except gaming which is my favorite and I also kind of have an addiction, it's almost impossible to have a constructive conversation with a gay male due to them being dumb and speaking using slangs, on top of that they're almost always left-wing
My friends have always been women of every sexuality and straight guys, am I just prejudiced? Is it bad to simply avoid gay moids?
No.11109
>>11108Stop trolling me, it was a genuine question
No.11110
>>11109People will never stop trolling you, you are so homosexual and trollable
No.11111
>>11110>you are so homosexualIndeed I am, to the point straight m*ids actually irk me
No.11112
>>11107I don't think it's particularly bad. Most of my gay friends only hang around women and queer people. I sometimes feel like the odd one out in that most of my friends are not queer, despite being gay.
I think owning your sexuality and being "your true self", as you say, around straight people can be an empowering activity that makes you gain confidence in yourself and your sexuality. For me, being comfortable being gay has always been in the context of these bro types you describe, talking about inane moronic shit and having absolute moronic takes on anything. Many of my closest friends are already married, some even have children, most of them have become more conservative as they aged.
My gay friends kind of admire how comfortable I feel around straightoids, while I admire my gay friends who seem to be kings of the gay world, turning heads wherever they go, meanwhile I feel many times out of place. On top of that, I don't have many (cis) women friends. I feel like I don't really relate to them much. (I wish I had more though.)
So, no, I don't think it's a huge issue, but IMO, confronting that uncomfortableness of not wanting to show your true colors in front of the straightoids is ultimately a positive thing for your life.
No.11113
>>11109>Stop trolling me, it was a genuine questionI'm not trolling you, it was a genuine answer.
No.11114
>>11112I don't really feel like straight m*ids would add anything positive or constructive to my life so I just outright avoid and ignore them, the worst of all is that I'm not a steoreotypical gay as I'm not "flamboyant" or whatever, so these fucking people will approach me at school and work regardless, I usually just respond with monowords so they get the message but still, it's kind of a problem because queers won't notice I'm also queer and ppl on general will just think I'm a misanthropic asshole or something so I end up quite lonely, I literally don't have true friends outside the internet
No.11115
>>11113Fuck off back to jerking off to 12 years old japanese cartoons, straight*d
No.11116
>>11115>doesn't understand ironyOof.
No.11117
>>11116 (me)
Listen. Both straights and gays are just socially constructed categories, they do not reflect actual persons. What I wanted to say is that your rant is just the reverse of the chinlet logic that's just as distant from reality as their genocidal delusions. The people who you're talking about are reactionary NPCs, I don't think you should hang out with these people, regardless of if they're straight or not. Try to find people you like, regardless of sexuality. Avoid the obvious reactionary football hooligans and zealotted traditionalists who shame anyone who doesn't torture themselves in the gym. I'm sure there are many straightoids here, you just don't know it. Try to find people who share your actual interests instead of going into pubs or wherever you find these people. And yeah, you don't have to connect with your schoolmates (I didn't). But you can try, maybe there are some. In general, people can be unbearable even if they're accepting.
No.11118
>>11117>straightoids hereYou mean here in the gen? Why?
No.11119
>>11118>Why do straights want to sympathize with and understand queers?I don't even know, anon. I don't even know.
No.11120
>>11117Everyone is bisexual and if they deny this they cope.
/thread
No.11121
>>11114It seems your aversion to straight men is a net negative to your life. I've derived a lot of good things from my friendship with straight men, including meeting other gay men. I don't like grindr and anon hookups, and I'm also usually not read as gay, so it can be a bit of a challenge to meet new gay people. Fortunately, I can meet them through straight friends. For example, a male friend is dating a woman (who happens to be bi) who's a "fag hag", so she hooked me up with what became my current gay friend group, who's also my main group I hang out with.
I don't understand how you can write with so much cognitive dissonance where you acknowledge avoiding straight men is making your life worse and more solitary. You have a psychological block, a trauma regarding it. Maybe talk to a psych about it?
No.11122
>>11121>>11121I said by avoiding straight moids like the plague people in general (including girls and fellow queers) will just interpret me as a misanthropic jerk so it's difficult for me to make friends outside of the internet, doesn't help the fact I'm kinda bulky and have full beard so people might even be intimidated to approach me
>>11120Anything slightly related to femininity massively turns me off, even twinks, so no, I'm super gay
No.11123
>>11119>He fell for the straight moid ally memeAnon, I…
No.11124
>>11120True, but the margin can be very slim.
>>11122>Anything slightly related to femininity massively turns me off, even twinks, so no, I'm super gaySame. How do you feel about muscular women and butch tomboys?
No.11125
>>11124Aesthetically I think Karlach's bodyshape from Baldur's Gate 3 is the most attractive to women in general, still, I don't feel attracted to it
No.11126
>>11125Agreed again.
Also yeah, the appreciation is more aesthetic than lust over the female form. For the butch I'm just impressed what they manage to pull off (e.g. Sonny133)
No.11127
>>11126Another thing that massively pisses me off on straight moids, they can't even phanton the idea of pointing what they actually find aesthetically pleasing/attractive on fellow guys over fear of the "gay" tag, they can barely touch each other over their snowflake masculinity, they're so pathetic and cringeworthy I almost pity them
No.11128
>>11092This woman is miserable, her whole feed is dedicated to crying about Trans shit 24/7. I wouldn't pay her attention, but she is close friends with better legends which is concerning
No.11129
>>11127Always been a lack of confidence, so I can't get upset about it. I am thinking of gymbunnies completing each other or even feeling comparing body parts. This is, of course, in the precise sense. As a social trend it should absolutely be resisted, though it is less bad than it used to be.
On the topic though: refusing to wash once asshole, because it would be "gay", is still the worst though. The things straight women have to content with. Yuck!
No.11130
>>11129Imagine having you asshole full of crusty shit and pieces of tp over fear of being called gay lmfao
Straight moids are a sad case really
No.11131
>>11129>>11130I refuse to believe this is a real thing.
No.11132
>>11131For what it's worth I haven't experienced it myself, obviously. Several het women have confirmed it independently from each other, however…
Considering the treatment gay men/gay porn (masc) used to get for merely existing, I really don't think it's that far fetched.
No.11133
>>11097>>11098Meaaan, I don't have porn in my ssd :(
No.11134
>>11130>Straight moids are a sad case reallyStraightist on a drive-by here. Is this today's op or something? I've been seeing snippets of your conversations while doomscrolling the /overboard/ and it all seems so performative. No offense ofc.
No.11135
>>11134Don't transmute your own insecurities into an (incorrect) assessment of another posters. It's blatant and "cringe". We all got our own demons to face, and you certainly are in no position to judge a gay men for theirs.
No.11136
>>11135>>11135>"cringe"The scare quotes are killing me. I'm saying that there seems to be a lot of talk of straight moid hate, just today, that seems inorganic. There's another thread on it. No problem with gay men here ftr.
No.11137
>>11136Unfortunately not, as you're still posting.
No.11138
>>11120Agreed.
>>11123>He fell for the straight moid ally memeI'm what people consider a "straight moid ally" myself. Though I kinda don't really care about my sexuality anymore, I've decided to have sex with whomever I like.
No.11139
>>11106>they pwiowitize the supewstwuctuwe uvw the base You are looking at things upside down and putting the cart before the horse. There is a fine (or not so fine) line between saying you think in an ideal world these categories don't matter and going 'lalala can't hear you' and pretend they don't exist.
There seems to be a theme of self-defense going on. Have you never heard that the best defense is a good offense? Before you become a target, organize (on the basis of whatever) against a reactionary danger. In any case it's just what people do, so taking a stand for or against it is pretty irrelevant.
No.11140
>>11101I already wield my penis multiple times a week, I just want basic companionship and stuff I guess.
And that point about wanting to be validated by the reactionary superstructure applies to gays as well doesn't it, like in the west it's already the case that you can be a totally valid queer as long as you're reactionary in the other right places.
No.11141
>>11139It's not really that I have issues with the identities of minorities. I have issues with how you seem to want to make identities fixed and to reinforce them. You want fraternity. I don't want fraternity, I want companionship.
Like, where does your plan lead? To human nationalism? Well, great, I'll be hunted down for committing treason then.
No.11142
>>11139sure, but dont pretend wanting bourgeois reform makes you a communist because you want gay rights or whatever. call it for what it is
No.11143
>>11106>The point of Marxism is to abolish all classes and bourgeois identities, not reinforce them.marxism is just analysis, youre talking about the revolution, and that only abolishes capitalism and classes and
consequently of all forms of oppression resulting from class society. hence the result of it is the free and full development of all individuals in communist society
No.11144
>>11141Do I really look like a guy with a plan?
It's not like I don't sympathize with the standpoint of total opposition. They used to call me Totalopposition, actually, in my younger years.
>you seem to want to make identities fixed and to reinforce themI don't.
Nowhere in that post did I make any prescriptions.
My position is indeed that the only way out is through, while yours seemingly is to just close your eyes to the whole sordid business.
No.11147
>>11146those thighs are so thick, thats crazy
No.11148
>>11127>they can't even phanton the idea of pointing what they actually find aesthetically pleasing/attractive on fellow guys over fear of the "gay" tag, they can barely touch each other over their snowflake masculinity,Get better straight friends. I have, and I swear to God, have kissed several men of my straight male friends.
No.11150
>>11149Leftists who go out of their way to pander to reactionaries are just retarded, or wolves in sheep's clothing. The only thing I would work on in that department is language, keep things simple, don't invent a bunch of esoteric terms designed for the deep recesses of Twitter/Tumblr and expect normies to understand them.
No.11151
>>11149>we must integrate identity strugglesLOL, no
keep the retarded shitjaks on twitter thx
No.11152
>>11149>>11151ftr both sides are retarded in your unfunny "meme"
No.11153
>>11150>Leftists who go out of their way to pander to reactionaries are just retarded,youre 100% right, reactionary meaning anyone who wants bourgeois reforms under capitalism of course lol
No.11154
>>11149What is a class if not a group of people with shared interests stemming from their shared situation? Insofar as two people are part of the same class, they share class interests, interests peculiar to that class. Proletarian interests include the abolition of capitalism and all of the gender relations entailed by it. Bourgeois interests do not. You can't call other reactionaries and then openly collaborate with other classes because you happen to share a sexual orientation, gender, race, etc.
There aren’t conflicting interests within classes. Insofar as you are part of a class, you have the interests of that class. Since queer people do not all have one and the same interest, ‘queer’ is not a class. Liberal reforms against queerphobia not only help proletarian queers but also bourgeois ones thus have nothing to do with communism.
This abstract characteristic of 'oppression' can be found in many different relations, not just the relation of class to class - let alone the specific relation of proletariat to bourgeoisie. Hence it cannot be what class struggle, much less modern communism, is all about.
It really demonstrates how much the wider left have given up on having any sort of political agency, just picking from whatever sides are already present with no interest in questioning why these particular groups are currently the dominant ones or what conditions their activity - whether it's dipshit transphobes or people wanting gay marriage legalized and integrated fully into the capitalist system. They are not interested in asserting any independent, critical position whatsoever. They are ignorant of the fact that communists constitute the leading element of their class and help to drive it forward, improving and educating it - instead, they are content to pander.
No.11155
>>11150OK thanks.
>>11151i made this meme on here as a response to pinkwashing and imperialism. It was the opener for general 3. it was never intended for twitter.
https://leftypol.org/siberia_archive/res/5955.html>>11152people say "unfunny" when they want to sound cool because they know that if they say "not funny" they'll sound offended. Also it wasn't meant to be funny. It was meant to represent a type of conversation I've seen over and over on /leftypol/ over the years.
>>11154thank you for your thoughts
No.11156
>>11155I suggest less memery and more reading (and actually absorbing the text).
No.11157
>>11151NTA but the opening meme of this thread anime 5 year old girl with pigtrails is way more cringe than this shitjak meme which at least has a decent point to make; some of y'all uyghas is catty bitches, and not in the cool way
>>11156i love it when people online are performatively anti-online, like coming to image boards and saying "how dare you post a meme, you need to be reading theory", like who the fuck are you lol
No.11158
>>11157>5 year oldShe's not 5.
No.11160
>>11154>What is a class if not a group of people with shared interests stemming from their shared situation?Odd definition of a class. So it's based on interest of what? Moral? Desire? Makes no sense, tbh. A class is a group of people that serve or embody a specific function in society.
>There aren’t conflicting interests within classes.There absolutely fucking are.
>Since queer people do not all have one and the same interest, ‘queer’ is not a class.By your definition, queer people are a class since they share the interest of queer liberation.
No.11161
>>11149>we must integrate (queer) identity struggles into the class struggle No, you have it backwards. The queer struggle is class struggle. It is one and the same.
No.11162
>>11159oh i accidentally left in a URL fragment on the first link
just scroll up to the top of the page
No.11163
You can always tell when hets do some drive-by posting in this thread.
>>11161This.
No.11164
>>11163Luckily "lived experience" doesn't make you inherently more or less correct on any given matter. :)
No.11165
>>11157Imagine crying at random japanese cartoons instead of the abomination that is modern social-media-fied w*jak.
>i love it when people online are performatively anti-online, like coming to image boards and saying "how dare you post a meme, you need to be reading theory", like who the fuck are you lolYou can only speak in twitter prose and can't argue for shit and then wonder why people ask you to tone down the maymays.
No.11166
>>11161Not true. there are bourgeois queer people and there are proletarian queer people. the biggest class is the proletariat. the proletariat is the umbrella. the proletarian umbrella includes both cishet and queer/trans proles, both white and POC proles. it is the duty of the numerical majority of the proletariat (the cishets) to not alienate and marginalized queer/trans
proletarian comrades. But bourgeois queers/trans will not be comrades in the class struggle because they are not part of the proletariat. Unless they become class traitors like Engels. But that is exceedingly rare. The queer struggle is not inherently the class struggle because there exists bourgeois queer people. The POC struggle is not inherently the class struggle because there exists bourgeois POC. This is why identity struggles among marginalized proletarians must be integrated into the class struggle by the numerical majority of the proletariat who are not members of these marginalized groups. It is the duty of the non-marginalized proletariat to not alienate the marginalized proletariat. It is not the duty of the marginalized proletariat to assimilate.
>>11163no you can't because i'm not het.
No.11168
>>11163Your argument is the classic fallback of anyone who has no substantive criticism - you assert the right of the people being criticized to ignore that criticism. All well and good, but it hardly rebuts the criticism itself. It’s the equivalent of ‘yeah but that’s just my opinion’. A complete non-sequitur, given that the opponent is saying your opinion is wrong.
No.11169
>>11161one more thing…
>>11166^this is the anon you are responding to btw
>>11168^and this is not
so don't preoccupy yourself with confusing them with each other.
No.11170
>>11169I'm an autistic faggot who is actually a marxist but sure.
No.11171
>>11161The queer struggle is to abolish "queerness" as the opposite contained in and presupposed by cis-heteronormativity. It's to sublate or abolish the distinction and recognize the various forms of sex, gender, identity, and so on. This is related to class struggle but not synonymous with it. The categories people have been split into are related to class rule and controlling the masses (in particular encouraging having a lot of children). We can expect a lot of the bias to continue during and after class revolution, but socialism (or at least class consciousness) certainly makes the struggle for queer liberation (like other identity struggles) vastly easier, since the struggle is no longer happening within containment by a class system or false consciousness that finds that oppression useful.
No.11173
>>11160>>11161The only interest of the proletarian is abolishing class society.
It is perfectly possible to be both queer and bourgeois, queer and proletarian, etc. Hence merely being queer does not imply a shared set of interests between proletarian and bourgeois. Therefore, ‘queer’ is not a class.
Well,
>>11166 beat me to it. But I'm iffy on the last sentence. When you abandon communism and class in favor of vague notions of the ‘oppressed’, you end up with a baseless faith in the mystical solidarity of completely different, and often mutually opposed, groups with one another.
These people are nothing more than moralists trying to give their subjective opinions an objective validity by compelling the state to recognize them, which makes it even funnier that they identify these schemes with communism, consisting as it does in the rejection of arbitrary moral criticisms. Moralism finds its home in the petty bourgeoisie, because this is the most impotent class, the class which pines most longingly for a ‘fairness’ that will allow it to maintain its position in the face of capital and the proletariat.
I don't think socialists are duty-bound to identify with the ‘most oppressed’ group they can find. This is an issue that crosses all classes, sexuality and gender don't end when you clock off work. In fact, hanging this on to communism probably makes it much more divisive than it should and ends up being another outgrowth of a dumb culture war.
Queers who fervently rally against assimilationism are on the right track but then many of them come up with dumb bullshit like saying non-queers are your enemy or whatever.
No.11174
>>11172also of note is that their attempt to renew the campaign against her and various other targets came immediately after TroonyToons got facedoxxed, so it's pretty obvious what they're going for
No.11175
>>11171>We can expect a lot of the bias to continue during and after class revolutionNot disagreeing, but sometimes I see people say this as an argument for reform as if the abolishing of sex and gender is possible
at all under capitalism just because it might or might not happen instantly after the DotP (and any good DotP program should encourage this among many other things like atheism, anyway).
No.11176
>>11171>>11175The fact that a natural process gave rise to a social construct does not imply that said construct will remain eternally. Humanity has long moved beyond the primitive economy that marked these early societies. Just like how we don't need tribes as a form of organization anymore.
The progression of society is determined ultimately by the contradiction between the productive forces and the relations of production that fetter them, leading to class upheaval towards a higher form. The abolition of gender is the natural result of the abolition of capitalism.
>>11149This is the inevitable result of basing your worldview not on the objective existence of classes and their interests but on interclassist, allegedly homogeneous formations such as "queer people", "cishet people" and so on.
>>11160"Queer people" are not a class. Classes are determined by relationship to the means of production, not their sexual orientation, including the manner of acquiring and disposing of social wealth. Reproduction is a factor of the reproduction of class relations, but not a determinator of one's class itself.
No.11177
>>11166not exactly disagreeing, but wanted to put in my 2 cents:
1) the majority of the working class is marginalized. The global majority is non-white. Half of the working class is female. There's no non-marginalized majority, there's a non-marginalized minority, and varying degrees of marginalization (and degrees to how necessary this marginalization is economically vs being more or less vestigial or based on alliances of convenience)
2) you didn't say it explicitly here so I will, since others seem to be on some weird shit - Just because there are queer bourgeoisie doesn't mean that queer liberation is not necessary to proletarian liberation. Queer liberation is necessitated because we are an inseparable part of the proletariat. Just because it would potentially have positive effects outside of the class doesn't make it less of a necessary pro-proletarian position.
3) 'queer' or 'lgbt' are alliances of convenience, based on a historical reality of oppression. Otherwise there would be no reason to identify all gender and sexual nonconformity together, as there is naturally a gradient and most people are to some degree imperfectly conforming to gender and sexual norms. Likewise, these norms that many feel compelled to conform to are products of the same relationship that calls for queer oppression - the patriarchy. Our existence undercuts their central myth, that sex determines social roles.
4) because of this, queer issues are feminist issues as well. Queers and women together are a simple majority, rather than a minority. The majority of the proletariat requires the fight against patriarchy.
No.11178
>>11171Yes, it's so important to place these struggles as concomitant but not identical. Patriarchy has been around as long as class society and imposed sexed roles in various ways, but it also has specific functions for the bourgeoisie within capitalism, e.g. the free socially reproductive labor of women, promoting a growing labor force, and allying men with the program of the bourgeoisie in democracies. In the process of abolishing class society we'll be confronting some truly ancient social relationships.
No.11179
>>11175I do think it's possible to abolish traditional sex/gender roles under capitalism, but not really in a good way. All that is solid melts into air. All that is holy becomes profaned. But what that ultimately means is commodification or discarding (often forcefully). It's never really a good thing for anybody. If we abolished gender under capitalism it would be in the form of us being turned into some kind of trans-human husks with no sexual traits to speak of, grown in vats in order to feed the need of a machine god for disposable human labor. Or some slightly less extreme version of that basically. Technically possible but in no way desirable and in the end certainly no more liberated overall.
>>11176>Humanity has long moved beyond the primitive economy that marked these early societies.Yeah but these systems have other uses to the ruling class now, namely divide and conquer and providing some kind of false consciousness to structure their reality. If they abolished them or allowed them to be abolished they would have to come up with a replacement. And that would take non-productive labor, which capital does try to avoid. That's why currently the main ways you see the queer dialectic advance is through production of (profitable) media. That's a tolerable avenue by which capitalism can advance change in this sphere.
No.11180
>>11173>The only interest of the proletarian is abolishing class society.How did this pass all your brain filters? Each proletarian is multi-faceted and has many interests. The vast have no subjective awareness of any objective interest in abolishing class society. Most feel other forms of hardship and oppression in life, and it's out of these lived struggles that eventually a fuller picture of society, and sense of broader solidarity beyond their immediate situation, is born. There are many conflicts even within the proletariat, and this is exploited by the bourgeoisie when they offer one segment concessions at the price of giving up their solidarity with another, more oppressed, segment. Anyways, right now this proletarian is interested in eating some yogurt.
No.11181
Without reading all that it feels like this anon thinks there is a certain number of activist points to allocate and people are pilfering from the pot for "superfluous" stuff. With one being us queers (I'm barely queer but whatever).
How close did I get?
No.11182
>>11181not very. liberal reforms are simply not communist
>>11180>class interest is whatever members of a class like :)wow, very smart
No.11183
>>11182Call it whatever you like.
Dialecticians think in processes, not discrete events / fixed ideas / etc. pp.
No.11184
>>11182who was talking about a class? You mention a proletarian, an individual.
I'm absolutely being petty over a conjugation or spelling error on your part, and it's because this exact mindset - that there is one correct thing for members of the working class to want and its up to enlightened communists to tell them what that is - is so rampant and ruined the last two waves of communist organizing in my country! The real proletariat is an aggregation of many members. Interest is a subjective category, it's not objective. Function is objective. We can say what the proletariat does and how it relates to other classes objectively, but in making a leap to class interests we are inevitably talking about the real interests of real individuals, the aggregate impact of these many real people's interests, and the act of organizing real individuals into a class that acts for itself - which is precisely about solidarity with people who you do not exactly overlap with, but who you share some material interests with and its expedient to unite with! Marxism is all about historicity, I don't get how this strain of western marxism (a marxism that attempts to remain pure and economic) has reproduced itself for so long! Apply marxism to your society's real conditions, do not simplify your society to the most abstract categories of marxist economic analysis! Get serious No.11185
>>11181Honestly, isn't this the case every time? I think you are close, if not right on the money.
Many tributaries feed a strong river. Anon doesn't understand this, she thinks the tributaries take the glory from the river. Such a sad backwardsness.
>>11182>liberal reforms are simply not communistThen shout down everyone who talks about the importance of unionizing, too. Argue with all of the people organizing for anything less than armed revolutionary overthrow. Silo yourself away from the mass struggles of the working class and build your ultra-revolutionist sect. Godspeed to you, I hope your enlightened communist junta brings us a better society.
No.11186
>>11176>"Queer people" are not a class. Wrong.
>Classes are determined by relationship to the means of production, not their sexual orientationYou made that up. Wrong. Classes can mean any social group. There's the priest class for example. Women also form a class. They're not classes with regards to economic production, but they're still classes. You can cope as much as you like about this fact.
No.11187
>>11173Again, classes are not defined by "interests" which is such a nebulous concept to the point that it's meaningless. The proletariat DOES NOT have the "interest" of abolishing itself by and large. If you make the NORMATIVE CLAIM that it is in the proletariat's best interest to abolish itself, then good for you but that is literally just your belief based on nothing but feelings and culturally learned morality.
No.11188
>>11186>>11187>you made up [basic marxism]>[marxism term] doesnt mean [marxist definition] it actually means [layman dictionary and/or arbitrary liberal definition]this is painfully embarrassing lmao
>>11181you smug liberals always bring this shit up when YES, actually most proletarians dont have time to waste on every cause under the sun
the world is dying and you dipshits will still pull the "erm… what about voting AND organizing?" that has never worked because thats how capitalism works. wow, fucking genius
>>11185unionizing dont help people across all classes dumbass, get a better rebuttal
>>11183>Dialecticiansaka not marxists lol
No.11189
>>11187NTA but while the interests of the proletariat are a spook I also distinguish between class interests as the interests of the proletarian species-being and class interests as the interests I might have as being a part of a class. Class interests aren't normative in the second case, they're simply saying that people… uh… want to get paid well? People want to have a nice home to live in? These are banal things, though they may lead to a person desiring to abolish class society… if they are educated in Marxism that is. Because otherwise you abolish the class society… and then what?
No.11190
>>11188Again call it whatever you like
If you take a look at Marx' work you'll find he quite liked using dialectics himself
No.11191
>>11190MLs and especially MLMs have turned dialectics into this mystical quasi-religion thing. Trotsky and his epigones contributed greatly to this cult of ‘the dialectic’ that we see today.
No.11193
>fetishizing 'proletarian', 'interest', 'class struggle' into something completely deranged
>actually thinking the abolition of capitalism is about an individually antagonistic relation of a vaguely defined 'proletariat' and 'bourgeoisie' as identity categories
>refusing to acknowledge any other social contradictions outside of your terms
can we go one day without this shit popping up
No.11195
>>11071r/femalefashionadvice
style is obviously a personal thing
you can find it through fbi.govs or other online communities maybe
some trans fbi.govs might have a fashion channel
No.11196
>>11195oh yeah, and pinterest is good for finding inspo
No.11197
>>11188Applying pure idealized theory unto reality. Very Marxist. 10/10
No.11198
>>11193coming over a day later to add nothing to a discussion thats dead and making up shit nobody is saying at all itt to seem like you 'won' is incredibly pathetic
No.11199
>>11197basic marxism is 'pure idealized theory' (wtf does that even mean)
this shithole definitely gets all their "theory" from youtube videos about pop culture
No.11201
>>11184>that there is one correct thing for members of the working class to want and its up to enlightened communists to tell them what that isyoure reading whatever you want to read bro the exact point is to take action 'as a class' instead of doing so as a mass of disconnected sympathizers. treating these steps as 'wins' is a false illusion that will land you nowhere
No.11202
>>11071>>11195Taking advice from reddit's "fashion "advice" places is a big no-no.
No.11203
>>11180>>11197>>11190>>11187youre just depriving the word class of any content and using it as a synonym for any group. you cant be on a marxist place and getting mad that people are using jargon around that context. that queer people can be bourgeois shows that, in the abstract, economic class and sexuality or gender are completely orthogonal to one another
No.11204
>>11192what's sad about this stupid meme is this is exactly how LGB depicted T until like 5 years ago
No.11205
>>11192As stupid as twitter manchildren are, implying the trans ones are in any way relevant as to be the fucking cause of laws against trans people is hilarious.
No.11206
why does gay sex seem to offend the sensibilities of even "progressive" cis women? I was talking to an older gay man today about bathhouse culture when he was young and the women who were part of our discussion group looked visibly uncomfortable.
No.11207
>>11206gay men are gross but lesbians are hot according to both men and women at large for some reason
No.11208
>>11206probably because it was about sex and also they couldnt join in
No.11209
>>11202their wiki is nice
No.11210
>>11209its going to be easier and faster and a bit less boring to just look at random assembled fits on fucking h&m than wasting your time reading fashion advice from suburban americans with office jobs. all youre going to learn is arbitrary rules that didnt make much sense a decade ago let alone today instead of actually learning about fabrics, construction, silhouette or the most useless subject in fashion thats considered the most important by laymen: colors
No.11211
>>11210where can I learn the important shit that actually helps me? I found a free course by MoMA and some books analyzing fashion more from a political and cultural lens, but that's it.
No.11212
>>11206>>11207it's because heteronormativity makes it so that women are viewed as sex objects and men are viewed as, conversely, sex "subjects" – the man fucks, the woman gets fucked. this is why the idea of men (or people that transphobes perceive to be men) having sex with each other is so deeply repulsive, because it conflicts with the fundamental law that someone who has a dick shall not be in a notably submissive sexual role (but especially not be penetrated), but the opposite doesn't necessarily hold for lesbians as long as it's in the context of them still being sexually available to men. because at the extreme end of a heteronormative worldview, women are incapable of having any kind of agency in their sexuality; this is why the narrative about "lesbian bed death" exists.
pic related: if a piece of yuri art for example has the characters looking at the viewer, that's a dead giveaway that it was made for a male audience, and why the idea of "yuri of absence" exists as the opposition to male-centric yuri.
No.11213
>>11212who cares about target audiences
No.11214
>>11200Thanks I guess.
I aim to go even further beyond of course.
Ad astra per aspera.
No.11215
>>11213read the first paragraph retard
No.11216
>>11215>heteronormativity makes it so that blah blahand im the retard
No.11217
>>11216Aren't you the spook boy haunting this place?
>normalcy is an imposition>I'm gonna run to the ends of the earth to avoid capture by the normalcy-police>call it hetero-, that's an idpol violation>flies off in his/her spaceshipEven by your own standards that seems inconsistent, ja?
you are enamored with putting things in neat, distinct categories, might it perchance be autism, far be it from me to diagnose people over the internet and I am not trying to grandstand here, it's my morbid curiosity speaking herespectre on the spectrum
No.11218
>>11211If you don't have time (totally understandable) then just look at
a lot of show pics of designers - obviously outside the couple of mainstream houses - that have an aesthetic that interests you and figure out what makes each combination of clothes click for you and why. There's a lot of great designers that don't have the fame/money to get their own shows too so you'll have to make do with paying attention at how online retail shops pair their pieces or people on social media do it. Then you can branch out and start pairing stuff yourself. Take it easy when starting out if you don't want to lose money on things that you probably won't like in a couple of months or even weeks.
No.11219
>>11217>whines about normalcy>makes fun of autistsLol.
No.11220
>>11219I didn't. I am way more interested in the manner of thinking. Mass psychology is way more fun than clinical psychology.
No.11221
>>11212Interesting, do you have any pictures of that "yuri of absence"?
No.11222
>>11210Actually good advice.
No.11224
>>11203Sure. Talking about the relationship to the reproduction of society, queer people don't form a coherent class. If we use your criteria for what constitutes a class then it is clear that they form a class, but your criteria sucks.
The reduction of every aspect of society into 2 to 4 discrete classes is incredibly reductive. It is unironically "class reductionism". Instead, you could say that the women proletariat form a class, the queer proletariat form a class and both are classes within the proletariat. They all have a different relationship to the reproduction of society, including the relationship to the real economy.
No.11226
>>11206Well homophobia aside bathhouse culture is unhealthy as fuck
No.11227
>>11226Gay life has always been considered unhealthy. Many aspects of it are unhealthy but so what?
No.11228
>>11227So nothing. But in this context it is "normal" for people outside of the Group to have visceral reactions to the culture, even if it might be a bit bigoted. It's like having a visceral reaction towards poverty. Not necessarily because of heteronormativity as black flag anon said
No.11229
It keeps getting away from me like some ADHD-addled idiot but there is a thread here between the thinking of "anti-queers" and anti-communists. They don't understand the status quo is violence. And in a certain sense both socio-political formations and "queer lifestyle" (I don't know, I don't even care about sex) is a reaction to it.
There is of course (but this is trivial) a very obvious parallel between leftcom-ism and the demand to abolish gender right this instant.
It's commandism but you can't even call it that.
I know cause I've had the same discussion with a liberal friend.
Bottom line, people have too many opinions.
No.11231
>>11229What does leftcom mean to you? It was a thing exclusive to a century ago, now it's just a label used by larpers. I don't get what you're trying to say overall.
No.11232
>>505843
>aspect of gay life
Lmao, seriously? I think defining any one trait, but especially these ones, as inherent to "gay life" is pretty silly.
No.11233
>>11231It means for example to try to skip very necessary steps of development (see Pol Pot and his merry band of retards). Fast forward the movie to the end. It's also connected to the mentality of "we just need to have the perfect theory and then everything will by necessity turn out fantastic". Mechanistic delusion, I think, but then I don't know the classical mechanists too well.
Further I think Debord et. al. can be classified as such. With Adorno (and probably spectacle man, guy drank himself to death) there is also a distinct pessimism there, which I understand.
Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen.
t. Funny Jazz hater man
On that note someone like Mark Fisher exhibits these tendencies but he is called a left axel or something. Well it's all kinda pot-ato po-tato to me.
No.11234
>>11233I don't think I ever heard anyone claim that Pol Pot was a leftcom, that's a new one.
No.11236
>>11233Your understanding of left-communism is completely based on vibes, jesus. Like I said, it's not even a thing anymore.
>>11234It's what happens when you don't actually know the words you use. Very common on leftypol.
No.11237
>>11236Left-deviation was a thing, is a thing, will always be a thing (until fully automated luxury communism but that's really uninteresting).
Sorry to burst your bubble.
No.11238
>>11237Ok ahistorical pseud. Why are you even bringing up that stupid "FALC" shit?
No.11239
>>11233>very necessary steps of developmenttheres no more "very necessary steps of development", the whole world already works under a capitalist mode of production
No.11240
>>11237so you agree youre using terms willy-nilly, kinda embarrasing
leftcom can either mean "person who knows basic marxism" or "self-appointed label closeted leninists use to feel smart" or "anyone who doesnt agree with my ml/mlm vulgar marxism" but it never means the political current specific to the early 20th century
No.11242
>>11240Again, call it whatever you like. Ultragauche, leftcom, leftoid, left deviation, "neither Washington nor [communist "regime"]" (these are not the same but there is enough overlap and in essence I see no reason not to just ignore the lot of it wholesale)
No.11244
>>11243>Dostoyevsky>pic 3 #181>Netochka Nezvanova>Dostoyevsky's attempt to address "The Woman Question" by writing a novel with a strong female protagonist.Russia going anti-feminist now?
No.11245
>>11244Members of the state duma have been proposing to ban abortions for a while now, as well as the church, the only reason those laws aren't passed is because there are still many women in the government who oppose it.
Ironically those same women vote yes on banning LGBT, but when they are threatened themselves they vote against it.
No.11246
Post men jerking off
No.11247
>>11246May I suggest my thread: >>402252 ?
They're jerking their partners off in some of the videos.
(I had alot of videos of femboys jerking themselves off, but I wanted to stick to the whole femboyDOM thing)>>11241Hell yeah brotha/sista
No.11248
>>11247>>11247I was looking for the self-pleasing male general that is now dead, and I'm into manly men
No.11249
>>11248Sometimes, you gotta to be the one to start that thread, and also be a massive contributor.
Maybe make the, "self-pleasing male general", but merge it with just in general guys who moan loudly and passionately during sex.
Could please the "kink" of a desperate anonette.
No.11250
>>11192this is so cringey and melodramatic
the blaming of individuals for gender clinic waiting times and not the actual system reminds me of like people saying the environment can be saved with individual consumption choices
No.11251
>>11243Stop using queer people to further your neocolonial agenda.
No.11252
>>11251stop sucking putler's cock, it's been 2 years and he didn't do shit to weaken empire, on the contrary he has solidified nato
No.11254
>>11252Fake liberal "allies" the moment gays become inconvenient to their neocolonial agenda:
>stop sucking [my enemy's] cockWhat other homophobic/queerphobic slurs are you going to use to defend your neocolonial moral blackmailing of queer people, in the fucking queer thread? 🙄😂
The audacity is hilarious and out of touch.
No.11255
>>11242I just had a mild let's say Eureka moment. So I'll argue with myself here.
While this is still my opinion in essence, here's where context comes in.
So here's how it went down:
I made that post as I was mildly annoyed at the other poster for making such an asinine statement. The statement still holds true for me but may not for someone else. I've already looked at the Frankfurt School and the others mentioned (I'm like so over that) but for someone else it may still be useful to read critically.
Now as for what it means to think dialectically. You have to be a conductor not try to fit things into boxes.
It's not about being correct or not (like a logic gate 1/0) it's about a mode of thinking.
Synthesize, synthesize, synthesize, you are trying to force something which just isn't going to happen, when you just insist "I am right, you are wrong". Think back to the advice "be like water".
>>11251Correct opinion, wrong addressee. Do you think this person is a glowie or just some random idiot. Also just ignore it and it'll go away.
Can you retards stop bickering
Don't @ me
No.11256
>>10907i'm literally a boymoder sneedhon
No.11258
>>11257i'm literally a transfem who has to look like a man to not be judged by the transphobic society, and i also like the aesthetic of cute things.
No.11259
>>11251>>11254Stop pushing
your neocolonialist agenda, campist libtards.
No.11260
>>11255 (me)
The actual point, which has slipped my mind once again, is that there's a lot of bastards in this world that think everyone's a caricature except them.
You think you are free thinker, everyone else is following some program. Oh you said this and that, you must be x, y and z.
On imageboards this takes on truly surreal forms. There is no identity worth speaking of so people go fucking nuts with it. This is also "things turning into their opposite" and a 69th type of liberalism.
No.11261
>>11259Which one, you fucking moron? It is an objective fact that both Russia and western governments are using queer people as political fodder, both domestically and abroad. And here you come promoting it, both the internal Russian propaganda and the external western moral outrage propaganda, your doing both the Russian government and the western governments their jobs for them. You're a useful idiot.
And of course you get triggered when you're called out on it, going so far as to use a homophobic slur in the LGBT thread. You don't actually give a fuck. You just want to be morally superior and crush the enemies of global neoliberal enlightened values. You don't give a shit if hundreds of thousands die at the hand of western hegemony.
You don't actually give a fuck about gay Palestinians trapped in Gaza. You don't reallly care about Russian queer people living in the streets. You don't truly care about queer children murdered down the block.
What you truly care about is for a universalized global uniform neoliberal order. You want a global caste system where your privileges for your narrow socioeconomic stratum is equalized around the world. You want universal access to the fruits of the poor of the world, but only for your specific socioeconomic stratum. This pathological anti-social narcissism and tribalism, so characteristic of colonial nations, particularly so of Americans, is a quasi-religious justification for the global apartheid and your privileged endowment, which you, of course, perceive as meritocratic or your inherent right. Like gods giving the right to rule, you have the right for a privileged life.
And like all of the petit bourgeoisie of the world, you stand on top of the proletariat on a "humble" pulpit from which you lecture your moral demands. You, of course, have been granted intelligence, education, enlightenment, unlike the rest. Arrogant, snobbish, narcissistic, yeah of course you know what the world needs. More of your moral direction. You, better than nobody, can wield the queers and tell them what they need to think. "Condemn Russia! Look, look, they're beating the gays!". Look at your own fucking country, whatever racist shithole you're from. Tell me how things are there with gay people. Tell me there's no homeless. Tell me how your country hasn't been involved in the massacre of people domestically and abroad.
But it's Russia, the big bad enemy we should condemn, they're the ones killing queer people! It's not the US who put Putin in charge. It isn't the US who has the meth-addicted son of the president in the highest position of Ukrainian energy companies. It isn't the US who stoked ethnic divisions in Ukraine. It isn't the US who appointed American citizen feds to top secretary positions in Ukraine, previously responsible for other colonial disasters. It isn't the US who led a coup and appointed a leader in both Russia and Ukraine. It isn't the US who caused one of the biggest humanitarian crisis up to that point in Russia. It isn't the US who blew up key European energy infrastructure causing the biggest ecological disaster in recorded history involving natural gas. It isn't the US who has funded the Ukrainian military with countless amounts of money, which has prolonged the war despite it being a lost cause, and yet they keep hiring poor people from the global south to die for US interest. "It's Russia! Russia is the enemy", or so you say, with a straight face, no, with a face of arrogant lecturing.
"B-b-b-but they started a war", you cry, "if you're gay, you have to be against putler". Same disgusting shit said by Zionist scum, your colonial brethren. You never gave a flying fuck about queer people. You don't give a fuck about queer people in your own country. You only coincidentally give a shit because queer people are convenient cannon fodder for your repugnant opinions.
Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.
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