/LGBTGQIA+/ general thread. NO reactionaries allowed
Thread for discussing LGBTQIA+ liberation. All reactionaries MUST lurk rather than spread their bullshit
Thank you :)
>>2540Firstly it would look like proletarian liberation since as with all subgroups of people they are mostly proletariat. After all we are the most numerous and productive class as Marx said.
But some issues exist which are specific to LGBTQIA+ people therefore they need some additional requirements beyond cishet people:
Widespread education (ceasing of the biological subgroup cultural genocide), social unacceptability of lgbtqia+phobias, unfounded bigotry, calls to political action to remove their rights not allowed. Universal healthcare and no discrimination allowed in healthcare, or any other areas of public life. Ceasing of violence and death being allowed against LGBTQIA+ people for various reasons, worldwide. Ceasing of all discriminations against them for any reason. Some places still require forced sterilization for trans people to change their gender markets, which is a requirement for getting healthcare and living life in areas with higher discrimination. I can't speak for everyone though
https://www.workers.org/lgbtq-oppression/ >>2548"queer" covers it basically
and its fun to call them "queers" and to not get in trouble for it anymore
Can an acronym be longer than 26 letters?
Vote now:
https://strawpoll.com/polls/2ayLWKp5WZ4>>2558porn reinforces a cishet-centered sexual convention
pornographic film as we know it today was created as a response to sexual liberation in the 60s and 70s where there were new advanced contraceptive medicines and the removal of sexual barriers for financial and other freedoms as well as LGBTQ pride
>>2559i dont see why other groups cant just make their own porn studios
u can get an hd camera for like a couple hundred bucks these days
>>2561no point when you can create actual sex
only hets are alienated and repressed enough to need sex to be staged, recorded and replayed over and over again
>>2563>british fascist<unibrow<receded chin<unformed body<england shirt<pedoit all checks out
only thing missing is face tattoos
>>2568>NOOOOOOOOOOOO>/leftypol/ is supposed to hate le gays!>anti-idpol is when you embrace right-wing discrimination, not when you oppose it!Reminder to all that people who defend discriminatory policies within AES countries are being anti-dialectical and forgetting the
historical context in which these policies existed, as well as the nature of history as something which develops. If someone is being a reactionary "socialist," be sure to correct them not on moralistic liberal grounds, but on being bad communists.
>>305431kys hetoid
>>2577das rite
>>2575>statement of fact is simpinglol
It would be cool if there was a practical way of having mods and jannies selected by sortition or something, but that isn't the case unfortunately. Moderation is a necessary evil otherwise the site would be overrun with /pol/ and might-as-well-be-/pol/ shitting up every thread and board.
>>305443>That doesn't matter in this case.Yeah it does. What are you talking about?
>Firstly, I've never went to one. Secondly, I really don't see how that matters - especially at a point in time where a 9 year old could buy a pack of Marlboros without question.Dude, you don't have to go to one to understand that they're adult establishments.
Also the latter thing not only makes no sense, it isn't strictly true - most states had smoking age laws in the '70s as far as I can tell, and attitudes towards cigarettes were also way more lax than they were towards "sodomy," which was broadly illegal.
>This goes hand-in-hand with >>2581 says. I don't consider pedophiles, and by that I mean le "hebephiles" as well, to be either straight or gay. They do not express attraction to assured secondary sex characteristics, so therefore they are not of the same sexuality as one who is straight or gay.This has nothing to do with what I wrote though. Within the culture of that era, fucking underage females' was mostly acceptable if you were a man, fucking underage males'' was not. Your whole "theory" about bathhouses makes literally no sense because of this. It's a figment of your imagination, it doesn't mesh with the history at all or the material conditions surrounding it - it's akin to if someone were to posit a theory that gyms exist because of dogfuckers, it's complete nonsense.
>>2585It represents the total cooption by liberals. But it doesn't matter.
feels (how the flag makes you feel) < reals (everything that affects people in concrete ways)
>>2585Total agreement. Even a lot of gay & trans ppl I know irl who have any opinion on it at all are either indifferent or see it as dumb. Not that nobody genuinely likes it - I'm sure there are people who like it who aren't running a grift… but it seems like it's mostly just tolerated because the flag shit is kind of unimportant so who cares if people fall for this bullshit?
As for me, though, yeah - it undermines the symbolism… rainbows are fundamentally inclusive to begin with, the colors don't represent specific ethnic groups, they represent diversity, harmony, and mutual tolerance. "Rainbow, plus also here's a specific stripe for the black people, and here's a stripe for the trans people, oh let's add a latino stripe" deprives the rainbow itself of symbolic meaning and
looks stupid on top of that.
>>2600>There's a whole community of unironic MAPs on twitter nowI believe that there are people on twitter who will
claim to be unironic MAPs. The first time I ever saw it was people on 4chan claiming to be unironic MAPs, and it was really obvious to me that it was a really clumsy op.
>>2599I'm already transitioning. Thanks for asking.
>>2602Yeah yeah, I'll get to it eventually.
>>2604I can believe that somebody would fall for it, a guy from a college somewhere included, but I don't think there's much actual momentum behind it. The trajectory of the past half century of sexual movements has been towards considering consent as the foremost question wrt sex, which resulted in both AOCs going up and in homosexuality being legalized. Weird fringes have always existed, but there are honestly probably less of them now than there used to be.
>>2605I'm pretty sure it just came from /pol/. Iirc there was a thread
about coining it to discredit gays but I could be misremembering on that detail. The first posts "advocating for it" that I saw absolutely had the classic /pol/ false flag hallmarks, though, where it was very "hello, fellow sexual minorities."
>>2599Shut up. This isn't true. I'm not getting SRS. Why don't you get it? It's scary as fuck.
You think being trans means requiring surgery? Retard.
>>2617So you admit that you're just a man with a fetish then? Well if that's the case please stop associating yourself with the trans movement and trans label, you're making actual trans women look like horny creeps.
>SRS is a dangerous surgeryLiteral /pol/ talking points on display here.
>>2623But I think they're funny!
Also cut your dick off
fapfapfapfapfap >>305519following up to
>>2627here is a a specific and rather simple example of gender norms differing over time
>>2630I got bored once and looked up pornhub (yes, I know, mistake already) solo female tag, most popular world wide, and on the first page is 'big clit' porn which when you look at their profile is very clearly from an intersex person (whether they know it or not).
At some point, you just have to laugh at the binary gymnastics.
I saw people talking about srs im jodt hopin to say that wathever you do do NOT go for a social security/nhs funded surgeon ever. Youre gotta have to pay it fully from your pocket sadly.
Nearly every fucking single botched SRS cases come from these "people". There are obviously other known botchers that arent social medecine eoctors but youll do you reaserches.
Also be sure about what SRS techniques you will get, there are like 6 different ones. But AFAIK the only truly good one is the PPV technique (
https://www.kamolhospital.com/en/service/SRS-PPV/) that have been used on cis women born with no bagina and intersex womens bagina for four decades now, it has stand the trial of time and experience and is the closest to normal vaginas that exist in terms of look, texture, contractions, self cleaning capacity, self lubrication and taste. Do not get some penile invertion SRS or some archaic horrid shit like that that dates back to the fucking 1940 and doesnt look or even function like the real thing.
>>2639and then we'd wake up together and he'd look really happy cause he woke up next to someone. Then id kiss him and tell him good morning then id go into the kitchen and make waffles or pancakes, whatever he likes better (ill ask him the night before, before i put the gag on) and id bring them into bed on like a lil tray and then id untie his arms and legs and then he'd just hug me and eat his breakfast :3
Then id ask what kinda hobbies he had and like hes not having a good life so hed say vidya and then id pull out a thinkpad and show him all the garbage ive made and like he really doesnt know wtf is happening but hes happy to listen
Eventually we'd develop a relationship, spend most of our free time together, sleep in the same bed, get married and live a fufilling life together :DDD
Thank you for listening to my self-fufillment post
>>2646you cant even begin to fathom how lonely i am
like after i written that second post, i was just like only able to hold my pillow, clench it between my arms and legs, and giggle like a little girl for 5 minutes
you ever had gay thoughts, lmao
>>2607lol that dude was such a freak,
a ghost freak>>2650Incredibly delusional. Touch grass now.
It's intersectionality, nothing else. Obviously liberal. You can research who made the original flag and why they did it.
>>2651>Touch grass now.lol
I suspect feds from experience seeing wreckers in action at live events.
>>2658no clue
I'd boil it down to shit luck
>>2666I mean, ugh…I mean, ugh…I mean, ughhh…like ughhh could you ughhh, seriously? Ugh, like, ugh be more, ugh , could you not, just ugh, wtf, ugh. Such a ugh, y'know, like ugh, I mean just ughhhh. Ughhh, typical of a ughhh, you know ughh, it's just so ugggghhhhhh. I am not here for this ughhh. Such a ughh, typical ugghh. I mean uuuggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
>>2666It's just some stripes so you can sew one together at home. It even used more colors at one point but was simplified to 7.
Yes, some people missed the point and bought one, that's not good enough of a reason to discard it as a symbol.
>>2668I don't think you used enough letters. We can't worry about class when you cannot possibly cover every single identity people create for themselves and make communities over. Capitalists have completely poisoned struggles faced by certain identities. Any org that puts class below or
equal to identity is begging for glowies to fracture the group along those lines. But of course you interpret it as hate.
>>2670Nice, instead of asking what I'm talking about to understand more properly you instead make up an accusation that I care about the letters, of which you think there are too many, more than class. But you think this despite not even asking me whether that's true. Care to explain why?
Could it be because you're more intent on personally attacking me than giving a fuck about what I actually wrote? Yeah, people on this site posting blatant homophobia which luckily got deleted by the godly mods is definitely just me being a bit too focused on the alphabet letters than class issues, right?
Fuck off.
>>2670>Any org that puts class below or equal to identity is begging for glowies to fracture the group along those lines. But of course you interpret it as hate.>orgwhat org?
Also no one does that, see picrel 1, this is how any LBGTQIA+ person sees it. Class doesn't nullify the discussion of social issues though, nor does picrel 1 imply that, but still, see picrel 2.
>>2671We're getting too focused on the subject of LGBTQ+ rights I'd say. The economy is going to shit, workers are starting to be made aware of how bad things really are, etc. Capitalism is finally coming to fruition, and we now have the responsibility of lighting the sea of gasoline which we find ourselves knee-deep in. And yet, you want to focus on these relatively petty issues? Issues that'd likely work themselves out under Socialism?
And look, I get it, homophobia is still a thing in some insular communities and families. But the former will be solved through time, and the latter is a personal matter. This is a board for (primarily) political discussion. Focusing our *political* movement on personal matters as if we're a support group does nothing but dilute the purpose of our movement wholesale.
I can understand your disdain for genuine homophobia et. al., I'm not cishet and I can fully understand that. But this idea that we need to devolve into full idpol over the subject matter is simply ridiculous. We all need to, as some hippie who grows marijuana in the Kootenays would say, "chill the fuck out".
>>2674Relatively petty issues that will "most likely work themselves out after socialism" which is not going to come at any point in the near future for vast swaths of the global population?
Why is it either-or? You know many countries are actively taking away legal rights from LGBT people like removing access to healthcare?
You get it? Homophobia is still a thing? You think saying this phrase means "You get it"?
You're simply deeply unaware of the material conditions of LGBT people
It's not JUST homophobia
https://www.hrc.org/resources/understanding-the-transgender-communityIdpol? How is there any idpol? We can't have a SINGLE thread on this entire goddamned site without it being too much? Too much fucking focus? There is ONE thread anon. IN THE FUCKING SIBERIA SECTION
https://www.hrc.org/resources/understanding-the-transgender-community >>2675>Idpol? How is there any idpol? We can't have a SINGLE thread on this entire goddamned site without it being too much? Too much fucking focus? There is ONE thread anon. IN THE FUCKING SIBERIA SECTION
Yeah, I'm aware. My judgement on this matter was probably a bit harsh.
Now, as for everything else, just calm the fuck down. You're putting the cart before the damned horse.
>>2677Not even fucking joking, do you want a hug?
>>2678To be fair, I am still inside of the closet.
>>2585I'm a lil drunk, so bear (lol) with me.
I'm an old school homo activist. Been out of the closest longer than anyone on the board, I'd reckon.
I loathe the progress flag and I completely agree with this sentiment. The rainbow flag was never meant to be all inclusive - it was meant to signify specifically the "gay" movement, which from it start also encompassed the transgender, lesbian, bi, etc. groups. Transgender activism is in a much dire spot than the gay movement, so I completely recognize they need specific representation. As the quote point out: the way to do this, is to hoist a second flag. Preferably side by side. So-li-da-ri-ty.
By the by, I don't know of a single pink worker who doesn't also hate the progress flag. It was literally designed by a silicone valley yuppie, and promoted by unironic Big Capital.
I know Zizek is deeply unpopular on here nowadays, but his critique of the "+" in "LGBT+" is one of his most salient critiques and will out life him ( :( ).
>>2679I'm not going to pretend things are nearly as bad as they were even just 20 years ago, but "homophobia", or really just fear of the other, is structurally ingrained in society. That's also why pink PROLES make less wage overall: they are poised to accept worse conditions, because of their poor treatment on a societal level. The worse a region in is with gay rights, the lower the wages for pink workers. Go check it out.
>>2666Fly both side by side. That really makes some heads spin.
>>2682Not THAT old.
>>2687You
can be a communist and hate those groups, it's just that almost nobody who posts that shit here actually
is. >>2687>>26864chan has been banning more VPNs and IPs, kiwifarms is down, hispachan is down, fbi.gov servers get shut down, and 4/pol/ + reddit + Twitter have waves of fixation of leftypol as some boogeyman. I've tried to figure out where they come from but to little success. They are drive by shitposters.
The Russian nationalist shit you got there is unfounded.
To be frank, they are lies to justify your ultra left colonial position on the Ukraine War. >>2688>You can be a communist and hate those groupsThis is always said so causally, like being an actual, bonafide Communist is as easy as identifying as a Lamarckian or something.
No bitch, being a Communist takes work and effort. It's not something you can wish upon a star.
>>2691We definitely got right wing pro Russian shit, which isn't obvious because the Ukrainian side shit was overwhelming. Both obvious glow ops have thankfully stopped.
Reactionary homophobic shit always rears its ugly head from time to time, but right now its the chillest its ever been. Nazbols, incels, among other reactionary ideolgues still post their shit.
Remain vigilant, be proactive, report often.
>>2689RE Russian nationalists - There's a guy who's been repeatedly banned from the gay porn thread for posting a .ru link of anti-gay propaganda, and the other day a Z flag guy was pushing some anti-gay propaganda in tandem with some weird holocaust denial shit. I don't personally know if these guys are Russian nationalists, but they remind me of back in the day before Crimea (and before /pol/ dominance too iirc) when Tesak came up on 4chan and a few random Russians showed up in the thread trying earnestly to defend the guy. I don't know what the game is, but even here these types don't seem to be socialists. Maybe it's even a false flag, but whatever it is it isn't socialism.
>>2690?
There are absolutely homophobic MLs. I just doubt much of any of the people trying to pass as homophobic MLs on this site are genuine.
>>2694Communism either A) does not care for gay liberation as it is outside of history and therefore there is nothing to say on the matter, or B) recognizes it as self-liberation by proletarians against bourgeois strata and therefore a revolutionary activity. This mumbo jumbo about this or that sexuality being bourgeois always conflates bourgeois culture with that of the proletariat (hence, signifying the commentator is, themself, bourgeois).
Ipso facto: you CAN NOT be a communist and homophobic. It is a contradiction. At best you can be silent on the subject.
>>2699maybe one day, Anon
🍻
>>2701Good thing I'm talking about Communism then, and not some wishy-washy ideology. You're also wrong that people are "fucking dumb". The average prole knows very well how the deck is stacked, and are de facto open to other (the labour movement carried both gay liberation AND black liberation well before the liberal ideal was even formulated). It is in our nature: we are social animals to our core.
This shit about Joe schmo being some hateful, unintelligent being is just bourgeois consciousness creeping up. Sort yourself out.
>>2673>Apparently caring about LGBTQIA+ people at all, or even being one, is by its nature "putting it above class" in the eyes of too many people on this site.If these people think that caring about [social issue]
at all is equated to putting it
above class, what does that say about how much these people care about class?
>>2704>You're also wrong that people are "fucking dumb". The average prole knows very well how the deck is stacked, and are de facto open to other (the labour movement carried both gay liberation AND black liberation well before the liberal ideal was even formulated). The average might, but who said anything about the average?
I'm saying there are some people who hold economically socialist ideas who are also homophobes. It's not the average, but
some of those guys do exist. I never once said anything about Joe Schmo being
that guy - Joe Schmo is fine.
>>2705I think all malice is rooted in some level of stupidity. Smart people are too busy trying to solve problems, or just learn more about the world around them. To stand by and hate, even for the sake of obtaining power for themself to rule over other, is to be too stupid to want to learn more, and too stupid to realize they don't need to rule over others to have their needs met. Malice is the seed of capitalism, may it burn as brightly as it's plant.
>>306019Fuck off glowie.
>>2541In other words, a regular developed socialist state?
No need for IdPol here.
>>2720See the infographs
>>2672Please, just read theory/
>>2727Yeah let's just move entire percentages of the global population to a small island which speaks a language they probably don't speak
>>2729Yeah let's have LGBT people supporting NATO oil imperialism
Great ideas guys
>>2737I usually just proceed with the assumption that's like, a sex district, where public fucking is allowed and people only go there if they consent to seeing people fucking.
Like how there's nudist beaches, but extend that to nearby gyms, laundromats, libraries, ect…
>>2742But that's the thing anon, I'm conflicted to an extreme extent. I want to be this absolute carnal sex pervert, I want to get railed by 20 guys in one night back-to-back, I want to do all that perverted shit. But I know it won't be good for me. It's like… the best way I can compare it is to fucking Sweet from GTA: San Andreas of all things.
Like near the end of the game, he almost tries crack and gets addicted to it. I'm in the same boat, I want to try (and likely get addicted) to all of these perverted things, but I know in the end it won't be good for me.
>>2744>I want to be this absolute carnal sex pervertDon't we all?
t.straight
>>2746They won't tho. Because they are basically nonexistent. Now please stop worrying you homo lol
>>2748I don't know how I am different, my fellow pervert
>>2745Speaking with x in Spanish is nice because it triggers the rightoids. Its also nice when you want to emphasize that something is agender.
It is incredibly common and widespread and not woke at all to use @. Like a cook: cociner@. You'd see them for example in job listings because they want to be explicit that they will hire any gender, not because they are woke. This has been a thing for decades, before gays were even accepted into society.
>>2696That just sounds like "ban what i don't like" because you don't want to deal with any opposition.
> it doesn't matter if they're trueWouldn't it be important if criticism against you was true? Why wouldn't you take the opportunity to self reflect instead of choosing a comforting lie over a harsh truth?
>>2755We will have to move on to other alphabets then.
Also why isn't there a rainbow flag?
>>2764correlates very strongly I should say
Maybe I should hammer this out a bit further but tbh these people to me aren't even human so why bother.
sry for off topic
>>2769horomones increase quality of life and societal acceptance, especially in children that haven't finished puberty
>bro just tell society to treat you like a woman/male instead of an obvious transhumanist and everyone will do solol
>>2773fuk
*transhumanist
tr4an3y
>>2769also it's so funny how trapnsparent this shit is like
"look at this ugly gigahon wtf don't listen to this thing it's probably a pedophile" is such a convincing argument that trans people don't need to try and appear cis or change their appearance with hormones for their own self esteem and self expression
>>2769Nah.
I'm kinda neither here nor there wrt when it's best to start hormones - not my area of expertise. But if you experience dysphoria and you've identified it, and esp. if you're
diagnosed, then you should be taking hrt. Like even if you're late, afaik the current medicine says that it'll improve your quality of life a lil' bit. A trans person who doesn't
want to take hormones is unironically sus. If you identify as a woman but you wanna keep cis male testosterone levels then I'm gonna doubt you even if I don't
say it.
Like, when it comes to the question of dysphoria as a mental health issue, then HRT is essential. All this other shit about "you don't have to experience dysphoria to be trans!!", "you don't have to take HRT to be trans!!" and whatever… like that's fine, you shouldn't necessarily be ridiculed just because you, uh, identify as a gender you don't feel like, but when it comes to people who do experience dysphoria then the question of whether they have access to HRT, whether they go through puberty with gender dysphoria, etc. is actually a question with medical and social significance. I don't necessarily know the answer to the question, but it's still relevant.
>>2539Right? It would've been more convincing if they had just cropped it to this.
Rightoids make memes like tourist restaurants make food. They just add too much cheese for the spectacle of it.
>>2782Gender euphoria is the euphoric feeling of one's sex/appearance matching one's gender… it's not the, uh, feeling of euphoria at
mismatch. That's dumb, anon.
>>2780i have no mouth and i must strawman
t. that anon
>>2771>>2772I feel as if most of the positive effects of hormones in the lives of trans people are more indicative of the environment they are within, as opposed to being the result of the hormones themselves. If it isn't too inhumane for most, we should do tests where some trans people are given hormones and others sugar pills, and see how their lives are doing a few months to years later.
>>2776I only said that trans people don't *have* to take hormones, and it's something that - as a trans person - I've noticed is a very common sentiment. Taking hormones and presenting as a gender besides the one you were assigned at birth are *not* mutually exclusive.
>>2783Exactly, they're related, but they're not mutually inclusive. Trans people don't all have gender dysphoria, and not everyone with gender dysphoria is trans (cis people get gender affirming surgeries too, with greater ease than trans people in fact.).
Like I don't understand how
>>2783 came to such a conclusion. Did they just forget to account for nonbinary people?
>>2785Well how are you contradicting me then?
>>2788What exactly is the point then?
Whether gender
dysphoria makes you feel bad, or gender
euphoria makes you feel good, you still have an incentive to pursue HRT either way because it would result in a better feeling than
not pursuing it. Saying "gender euphoria also exists!" doesn't contradict the medical implications of gender dysphoria - if anything, it
reinforces them.
Dysphoria itself, though, is clearly still a greater mental health issue than, uh, people who don't experience dysphoria but
do experience gender euphoria. Both conditions support treatment, but dysphoria specifically also presents a more pressing issue specifically of people walking around hating their bodies more than they need to. How that should be treated takes priority over how people who don't have that problem are treated…
obviously. What is there to debate about that?
>>2789>Saying "gender euphoria also exists!" doesn't contradict the medical implications of gender dysphoria I'm not sure how you thought it did?
That was a response to "because you, uh, identify as a gender you don't feel like"
Just because someone doesn't have dysphoria doesn't mean they don't "feel like that gender."
You seem to forget that gender euphoria isn't something exclusively rooted in "looking one's gender" because not everyone has a gender with a particular look.
>>2791This isn't a ghetto lmfao.
Being gay isn't revolutionary. It's nice, yeah, we deserve the same rights as anybody else certainly, but gayness isn't inherently leftist.
>>2792Oh don't worry comrade, I could've worded things better to start with.
>>2791I think it's more like a countryside than a ghetto. We get to talk about politics, but aren't constrained to that.
>>2798oh no i forgot to do that actually
but do you realllyyy wanna know what i did
>>2787>I feel as if most of the positive effects of hormones in the lives of trans people are more indicative of the environment they are within, as opposed to being the result of the hormones themselves.Spoken like somebody who has never been on some kind of medication that they needed. It's well understood that hormones and other interventions improve survivability and mental health in general. This isn't the first time anybody thought of testing that.
>>2796The sugar pill thing is standard procedure for scientific testing. You test against a placebo to ensure the effects are actually the medicine and not the placebo effect. That part isn't wrong except the presumption that this hasn't already been tested.
>>2803I know, know KNOW this is a troll, like it's literally impossible that it isn't… but I'm still going to argue with it - puberty is what's important, the number isn't. The vast majority of people complete puberty considerably before 18, the choice of 18 (and previously 21) relates to cultural standards relating to completion of sexual maturity. Sex hormones impact characteristics besides just sex and appearance - they also drive muscle growth, which has implications wrt occupation. Those few who have serious developmental delays or no puberty are a small enough exception that it makes some logistical sense to set 18 as an age of majority. Puberty is crucial to development for the vast majority of people, and if you delayed it for that long then it wouldn't make sense to give access to it at 18
because those people would not be adults. Sexual maturity is the biological truth around which legal adulthood was defined, if by 18 nobody had hit puberty then you could not realistically draw any line there where they would be "responsible enough" to decide on what kind of puberty they should have. The legal implications of adulthood don't stand if you force everyone to be a child.
>>2804Age of consent is 16 most places. Highkey 18 is dumb. There are worse ages of consent - some places in the world set it at like 21, so 18 is fine compared to that. 16 shouldn't be age of
majority, but there's no universe where highschoolers fucking is a bigger risk than highschoolers driving or where people who can do algebra can't be trusted with decisions about their own bodies.
>>2815Demi lova lova Lovato
anything demi, Demihuman, Demigod
>>2815it's when you can only
SEX someone you're romantically attracted to.
>>2820But it's only romantic attraction, not sexual attraction. Think couples who met in multiplayer games and forums, or who have waifus from books with no canon visual depiction.
I don't know the difference between that and just being asexual but something-romantic. Maybe demisexual was a term that cropped up before people considered sexual and romantic as being two different orientations.
I get why people would want to stick with it tho. I'm technically pan but call myself bi since that's the more well known of the two.
>>2820What's a healthy human? apparently its going out and having lots of
SEX with random strangers?
>>2826Products of their time.
Castro actually rescinded this and Cuba AFAIK is the only country to ever officially apologize for discriminating against gays.
>>2828Charles Darwin thought you could talk to the death through seances.
Doesn't mean evolution is false.
Also,
>>2827Kill yourself bourgie. The labour movement has always been decades ahead of liberal social justice and this has not changed.
>>2839Rich of you to talk about reading anything, considering you have the reading comprehension of… well, a /leftypol/ poster.
>>2840>>2842Thank you for still using your brain.
>>2843>accuses that anon of lacking reading comprehension but doesn't explain how.>Doesn't refute the dialectic>Thank you for still using your brain.The Base-Superstructure Dialectic is a pretty good response to most idpol, such as
>>2838, I don't think they misread anything.
>>28461) You got baited by fake quotes; and
2) You are so ignorant of actual history you do not know the labour movement was initially synonymous with anti-racism, and created safe places for queer people. Fuck, every third Bolshevik took it up the bum, and some of the highest ranking lived a life SCARED of their homosexuality until they became active in the real movement. Almost as if labour practice and queer practice go hand in hand, not that you know.
Entirely inline with the bourgeois consciousness this thread is inundated with, like the slander about the proles that is parroted in earnest because you scumbags are all as far removed from actual working schmoes as can be. Including, if not especially, queer proles.
>>28471) You are an idealist denying historical materialism and the situation of these historical movements within history.
2) That's it. Cope harder.
>>2845>mere factsIt was actually an opinion in response to someone else's reply, which while an innocuous opinion on it's own, became idpol in implication.
>>2827>Products of their time.>Castro actually rescinded this and Cuba AFAIK is the only country to ever officially apologize for discriminating against gays.stimulus
>>2838>Also,>>>2827>Kill yourself bourgie. The labour movement has always been decades ahead of liberal social justice and this has not changed.response
What did
>>2827 have to do with "liberal social justice."
>>2584>NO men or chasers allowed!what about the butch transbian in men's clothing and the transbian who used to be a chaser
be careful who you let in because we're not all anime catgirls IRL
>>2824>demisexualan oddly specific label for not being a slut
i don't see how this is on-par with being LGBT given how socially acceptable it is to be demi
it also doesn't explain as a word your sexual orientation with regard to gender. You're gonna be L, G, B, or Straight, regardless of if you only feel sexually attracted to people you're also romantically attracted to
…against the idea that "demi" is relevant or queer
>>2858>not a slutSorry about the exaggeration.
I'm being hyperbolic/jokey, not literal. Not here to slut-shame people who can get off to someone they're not dating/friends with/close to. I'm making the point that demi-sexual is a misnomer because it makes it sound like a sexual orientation when it's not. It's also a misnomer implying that someone is partially. sexual, when it's more like they're conditionally sexual. I dated a demisexual person who obviously felt horny, was only attracted to men (had an actual sexual orientation), had sex with me before we actually dated (we were friends) and even went on to cheat on me. I just don't get the importance of this distinction when it's so banal and hardly queer in the typical sense.
demi people be like:
>I identify as straight and I’m not in any way a prude, but I need to have a deep emotional connection with someone before any sexual feelings appear.But when was it the default to assume everyone must at some point lust after someone they're not emotionally close to?
What's the word for not-demisexual? I'm not saying demisexuality doesn't exist. I just question:
(1) The need for a label
(2) The implication that being nondemisexual is the assumed default
(3) The choice of root "demi" for the label
(4) The implication that not wanting to fuck someone you don't know makes you LGBTQIABC++
>>2629Men used to ear high heels ad makeup, men used to do ballet, men used to write letters to watch other, etc.
Masculinity is truly nothing but aesthetics
>>2862>Depends on internet availabilityWe're not going to have the internet forever, capitalists can only extract so much money from it before deciding it poses more of a threat to capitalism than it's worth. Just look at what they're doing to phones, people don't bother to pick up the phone anymore thanks to spam calls.
We have to be ready for the 'people on bikes carrying USBs in a backpack' era of the internet.
>Can't attach flat things like keys, cards, coins, origami, ect… >>2869what is the difference between demi and pan
Also idc labels but what level of fruity am i?
Like i'm gay for love, i would have sex with a man if my wife's soul transferred into him
what flag can i get
i am extremely devoted to the object of my desire
>>2864The good news is that this won't happen unless there is a wide-scale collapse of the telecom systems; the why is the bad news - the Internets have been their playground from the beginning and have brought them a *lot* of profit and is probably the best counter-insurgency tool.
>>2865Too bad "Q" is associated with rightoid skitzos now.
>>2876i don't see why you need education here
man, woman, non-binary is not really some foreign, elite thing that only westoids can comprehend
you don't even need to be literate for that stuff
>>2877I'm sympathetic, less so in the last couple of years tbh, but people here are not and have not been historically.
I'll agree with them when they talk about elite narratives falling apart right now, and they see what they call trans ideology as part of an elite narrative. I've been saying the western establishment narratives are collapsing globally to people too btw. People here are questioning why other countries don't push SSRIs like the US does too.
I don't have a response when people point out countries that have stricter trans identification protocols yet apparently have better outcomes, like the nordic countries.
Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents? Like gone on record, something I can point to?
A narrative here is that when one kid in a class identifies as trans, the incentives in place mean that suddenly half the school is trans and chaos ensues, like a hysteria.
I don't have kids. If a father without an education says that he has the right to have a serene learning environment for his kids I don't argue. It's near impossible for kids to get an education in their current info environment as it is. I don't accept views like this from educated urban friends fwiw.
>>2876>In good faithI'll try.
I feel like decompressing the way you describe these things might help. You're using a lot of catchy yet cryptic lingo, though I imagine these are how it's been described to ya.
>US trans idpol chaosAre you not in the US? Is there anything going on over there that feels uniquely burger or do you just associate the discourse with the US?
>maximalist trans rights campaignHmm, not sure what maximalist means here.
>that might have been appropriate in the end of historyMad Max shit? There better be motorcycles involved.
>in an urbanized context within the global hegemon, is not welcome here at all. People don't have the education here, they haven't even had educated people among them for decades, all the young emigrate.I imagine more people in your city simply feel apathetic towards it than against it. That may be the media feeding you the idea it's unwelcome. Especially if it's a region known to be uneducated, and therefor likely to take the media at it's word.
>>2878>I'll agree with them when they talk about elite narratives falling apart right now, and they see what they call trans ideology as part of an elite narrative.Who are 'they' in this context?
>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents?Well due to a lot of censorship, and even the big book burning in WW2, trans research has been set back a considerable amount, but yeah there's some. I haven't looked into it much myself though, so i'll have to look into it.
>>2879>>In good faith>I'll try.Appreciate it. I can absolutely see how trans people would be extremely suspicious of supposedly good faith discussion.
>>US trans idpol chaos>Are you not in the US? Is there anything going on over there that feels uniquely burger or do you just associate the discourse with the US?It all feels burger tbh. The anti trans positions and arguments and behaviours now made here are totally informed and constructed from a US social media evangelical perspective. The pro trans positions are from the extremely online idpol sections of the US online culture. Both are out of context here to me tbh, and to people here.
>>maximalist trans rights campaign>Hmm, not sure what maximalist means here.The sports thing for one. I feel like I've been maximally pro trans in my life, but some trans people having a clear physical advantage just never flew with me and it will never fly here. People take women's sport seriously here and the optics just remove the credibility from any pro trans discussions.
People here also wouldn't support giving puberty blockers without some kind of offical statement that this is government medical policy or something. It all seems driven by online culture in the US to them. I kind of agree with that tbh. I had always assumed that there were extremely stringent psychological and environmental assessments carried out before people were given puberty blockers.
>>2879
>>that might have been appropriate in the end of history>Mad Max shit? There better be motorcycles involved.End of history in the geopolitical sense. US hegemony maybe coming to an end. Aren't there a lot of things that don't make sense any more now that history has restarted?
>>in an urbanized context within the global hegemon, is not welcome here at all. People don't have the education here, they haven't even had educated people among them for decades, all the young emigrate.>I imagine more people in your city simply feel apathetic towards it than against it. That may be the media feeding you the idea it's unwelcome. Especially if it's a region known to be uneducated, and therefor likely to take the media at it's word.People certainly aren't apathetic, I'd kind of prefer if they were on this issue. I'd classify it as a feeling of empathy without willingness to change the color and nature of their lives. People here agree that trans people have certainly always existed in small numbers and seem pretty open to equality (from their perspective they have treated the few out trans people in society in a moral way historically), but are not willing to accept explanations for the recent explosion in numbers and how the issue dominates the discourse. Particularly around schools.
>>2880
>>>311011>>I'll agree with them when they talk about elite narratives falling apart right now, and they see what they call trans ideology as part of an elite narrative.>Who are 'they' in this context?Everyday people around here.
>>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents?>Well due to a lot of censorship, and even the big book burning in WW2, trans research has been set back a considerable amount, but yeah there's some. I haven't looked into it much myself though, so i'll have to look into it.People bring up the policies of the nordic countries, which are stricter than the US apparently, as a gotcha. It's all from US religious right wing online talking points. When I ask exactly where and how people get informed on events and politics it's a fucking disaster. They are being fed peterson and shapiro and worse every time they look at a screen.
Hope I'm not sounding like a provocateur or something. These issues are the first thing that people have brought up in conversation with me, out of nowhere. I can't help seeing it as the new wedge issue, pushed as a distraction by both kinds of liberals, with trans people stuck in the middle.
>>2878>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents? Like gone on record, something I can point to?Trans people are an oppressed minority, there is often lacking good medical research, the "Standards of Care" in many advanced countries is woefully out of date. Unironically if you want the most advanced healthcare you have to ignore your local healthcare institutions and do international research online then demand that the doctor give you what you want, and if they refuse, find another doctor
Half the time the doctor literally ends up saying "we're not sure if this is the best but we can do it if you want" because nobody gives a fuck about doing medical research on trans healthcare because trans people are treated like garbage
Stop saying "narrative" and "ideology" it's a TYPE OF PERSON.
>>2885>Strength bracketingInteresting, I've heard of weight bracketing having issues, where wrestlers would self destructive means of weight loss to meet just under their weight bracket, so whatever strength bracketing is, I imagine it'd be better for that, especially in non-fighting sports.
I was also thinking of something like chess's elo, where wins/losses would calculate where someone should bracket, but people can cheese that with intentional match throws.
>>2853The "products of their time" reasoning is hokum, used to justify the current, liberal, and dominant culture as further progressed than whatever came before by function of de facto educating its subjects into being more open minded. My point was exactly that this is ahistoric and, as already pointed out, that the labour movement has always been the spearhead of what later became social justice topics (because liberalism is nothing but capitalist catch-up on social topics, such as anti-racism, queer politics, etc).
And no, that is not an opinion: it is the historic record. Again: sad that you can not discern the two but that is what imageboards do to your brain.
>>2850>>2852Just a petite moron who confuses inane screeching with intellect.
>>2892My post wasn't talour made for your consciousness, as is no post here. Or anywhere. What a bizarre line of reasoning.
Also fuck you, not only did I make that point: liberalism SHOULD be used in bitter contempt. Why would I have anything but contempt for the culture machinations of my oppressors?!
>>2881 here again.
lame as it sounds, I'm here in good faith.
>>2883>>>311011>>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents? Like gone on record, something I can point to?>Trans people are an oppressed minority, there is often lacking good medical research, the "Standards of Care" in many advanced countries is woefully out of date. Unironically if you want the most advanced healthcare you have to ignore your local healthcare institutions and do international research online then demand that the doctor give you what you want, and if they refuse, find another doctor
>Half the time the doctor literally ends up saying "we're not sure if this is the best but we can do it if you want" because nobody gives a fuck about doing medical research on trans healthcare because trans people are treated like garbage
>Stop saying "narrative" and "ideology" it's a TYPE OF PERSON.That can't be the message to parents though. This issue is dominating the discourse ffs. Where are the medical authorities giving official guidance? People barely trust any authority around here after the contradictory shitshow handling of covid, and you want them to accept this for their children based on….what?
>>2884
>>>2881>>End of history in the geopolitical sense. US hegemony maybe coming to an end. Aren't there a lot of things that don't make sense any more now that history has restarted? >Trans people have existed all over the world for all of recorded history, stop pushing this bullshit idea that trans rights are some western US conceptFully agree that trans people have existed throughout history. The trans rights campaign of the last 15 years is absolutely a US concept imo, and has been co-opted by elements of the US establishment for geopolitical ends.
There are many things unique to the US that are not welcome in other countries. The opiate crisis, the massive over prescription of SSRIs, the largest incarcerated population in the world…it goes on. The US tries to push it's ideologies globally and if history had just stayed stopped, it might have worked.
>>2885
>>>2881>>The sports thing for one. I feel like I've been maximally pro trans in my life, but some trans people having a clear physical advantage just never flew with me and it will never fly here. People take women's sport seriously here and the optics just remove the credibility from any pro trans discussions.>Convert to weight or strength class based brackets. Top athletes are already genetic outliers that have biological advantages over the rest of the competition and the general competition. Why is it trans people being singled out? If it was a real issue we'd see trans women winning sports competitions at rates exceeding their small percentage of the population, but we are NOT seeing that. Instead just a few isolated incidents that right wing media picks up on to demonize us.I agree that sport is in itself bullshit, the whole thing is a ridiculous spectacle. I watch a bullshit sport where the officials actively manipulate the game to engineer final minute drama. People here love it and just won't change their entire conception of it without the government coming out and enforcing trans participation in the way the trans community wants it.
Fundamentally, I guess I'm saying that people here are gonna need some authoritative societal organizations to come out and definitively state to parents with children in education what the reality is.
Maybe I should state my ideal world:
Absolutely full rights and equality and protection from discrimination for trans people.
Trans men are men, trans women are women. Trans people whose personal history might confer a perceived athletic advantage will understand that they don't compete until body modification tech has improved.
A government administered system where puberty blockers are only prescribed to children with a long history of dysphoria.
>>2907they don't know enough homosexuals and
overintake of edgy memes and twitter screencaps have ruined their perception of reality
>>2912>It's exhaustingThis is the point of both liberal and rightoid propaganda, however you delineate the two categories.
I call this the schizo glow complex
>>2918Eh, some of the "anti-idpol" is well founded and an intuitive response against class warfare, even if wrapped in language that appears counter-productive. To throw a blanket mark on all of it, is to throw out the proverbial baby (as the mods do frequently).
To be honest I don't know what is to be done at this point. This shit has been going on almost since /leftypol/s inception, and has been increasing in impudence linearly with the distance to /pol/. I'm highly skeptical the recent batch of mods also didn't include a number of reactionaries (going by experience, there), but I guess we will see.
On the other hand, it's not like this fucking thrash heap of a site is worth preserving. Honestly people here might be better off branching off.
>>2921I made a post about how the perception that reactionary positions are supported by the proletariat is a bourgeois misconception, as those are the opinions of an unorganized and not class-conscious mass. But the mods deleted it, so I guess it isn't a /leftypol/ Approved(tm) opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>2916Anon, almost nobody would be left to post.
Let's do it!
>>2924I'm sure there's an inordinately tech-wise furry on here somewhere.
>>2923Lifted (almost) straight from Marx' letters.
>>2912Its not much better when its gay guys either tbh.
I remember That One Thread when a patriot front guy tried to shoot up a parade somewhere in the midwest not too long ago and the article made a typo making the reader think the guy came out as gay irl (he is a straight married guy) and the whole thread was spamming Le Gorky quote and deversing pol tier homophobia.
>>2539How do you guys deal with how our existence is some debate somehow rather than just a thing people learn about then move on with their lives? I swear even on this site where we'd expect communists to be the most advanced proletariat, instead there are tons of people who spread bullshit misinformation about us
Sure class is paramount, but there's something to these marginalized positions where the majority of people don't even understand us. This applies to other groups too clearly but I can't speak for them. I feel there must be some responsibility among ourselves to push for our own rights rather than assume the abolition of class will solve everything. How can it when even those who claim to want to abolish class still believe misinformation bullshit about us?
The "Economically Left but actually reactionary" crowd is malding in the Cuba referendum thread. Funny how they now vocally condemn Cuba from their armchairs like the radlibs they oppose.
>>2922What we need to do is look at that the "anti-idpol left" has been so far and from what I've seen, its mostly produced a bunch of right-opportunists who want to appeal to the lowest and most reactionary common denominator. Instead of working to overcome these beliefs and attitudes, they would have us embrace such beliefs in the name of "appealing to the working class." They would have one think that anybody who what LGBT+ automatically gets a nice job and an apartment in a gentrified neighborhood when they come out, instead of facing ostracism at best.
>>2941It's not bait, misato, you self-centered jerk. Stop abusing your position to push your fragile interpretations with a moderator threat attached.
The first line is a parody for effect. The second line is a legitimate opinion, justified with an explanation. The term literally translates to 'attracted to two sexes'. There is no other reasonable way to interpret it. Furthermore, there is an implication in its current use that it means ANY one of the following:
> 'attracted to both sexes' - I can find dictionary definitions for you to verify this common usage. Explicitly implies the aforementioned false binary.> 'attracted to all sexes' - Implicitly suggests the aforementioned false binary, that 'bi' is all. Should be obsoleted in favor of Pansexual.>'attracted to both male and female' - Reasonable usage, so long as the legacy additive LGBT+ acronym is used instead of a more useful subtractive term (the real crux of the term is "non-hetero, non-cis". Bam, no SS shit, no pedos trying to insert into an acronym, no people feeling a need to list their rare obscure situation because they were excluded, no infighting over kicking a letter out) and that something akin to pansexual or other n>2 term is included.The concept of two sexes is BY SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS AND CHROMOSOME ANALYSIS, obsolete. Intersex people exist. They have existed for millennia. Sex is, at the very least, a spectrum rather than a binary. That's why it is important to obsolete terms that refer to an outdated two-sex paradigm.
But I guess that's not safe for comrades in a thread about sex and sexuality to discuss, right? Because you decided it's "bait". It's a sincere fucking conversation starter, not bait.
And even if it was a major flame or total joke (it isn't), you shouldn't be saying 'no fun allowed' just because you didn't find it funny. Leftypol isn't your safe space. People are allowed to reply to posts you don't like.
>>2943Eh, 'homosexual' doesn't imply the non-existence of nonbinary sexes in the same way 'bisexual'
frequently (but not inherently) does. See above.
>>2949Is this a dogwhistle too? ->
>>2944
>Your posts wording [references] "lgb drop the t" transphobia.It does. Yes. Like I said, it's a parody. I thought it was obvious and ridiculous enough that other people on leftypol wouldn't take it seriously, given the fact that we're here and not somewhere else. I'm happy to take criticism, maybe it was too believable, although I insist people on leftypol shouldn't normalize taking everything so seriously on an edgy albanian humor repository.
>>2966This is /Siberia/ sir
Idpol does not include refutation of bigotry. Pro-lgbtqia+ is not idpol, only anti is. Reread the rules
>>2950>Is this a dogwhistle too?Well
>>2958 decided that it was basically one for rape but to be fair, I do advocate corrective rape for heterosexuals to deconvert them back to their natural homosexual state.
Which I actually don't but it's all the funnier if I did. >>2981>demisexualaka being a normal well-adjusted person who doesn't just sleep with anyone without connecting with them at all
>omnisexualpointless label
>pansexualtechnically more correct than bisexual but feels pointless
also they are all cringe. monosexual gang rise up
>>2987pan sexual is an enhanced bisexual
LGPT soon
the bi erasure will happen, inshallah
>>2990more sexes, more sex?
>>2991Why not both?
>>2992yes a good ol' fashioned pun
>>2991i don't even know what a demisexual is, i thought it was a sapiosexual who only loves people they know
>>3008that's basically been happening the past half century or so
the more modern term is becoming "civil partnerships" and stuff like that
>>3010Not really since a civil union is just a lesser version of marriage. I'm talking no direct equivalent as a single thing just a bunch of little things filed separately. Or is a civil partnership different from a civil union? Anyway I know some time in past radfems pushed for marriage abolition but im not sure if they ever suggested an alternative system for things.
>>3011Sounds like just grandparents or godparents from how you describe that.
I just feel abolishing marriage as a legal status could be an end to idpol. Christfags can reject people from marriage all they want and it wont have any negative impact on someone's life outside of religion and LGBTetc get access to all the rights that are relavent to them and it allows pretty much any family structure and relationship type within reason.
>>3004I remember reading roughly a trillion years ago that if you regularly apply topical testosterone cream directly to the penis
during puberty can increase the size. Who knows how bullshit that is.
You know what I fucking hate? Femboys.
There's like this massively popular, extremely odd, and just downright stupid reactionary belief within the general collective of "gay people et. al." that any sort of critique to something genuinely harmful within the group is to be shunned and ignored.
"Femboys" aren't feminine guys. If I shown you a guy with clear fruity tendencies, who had feminine interests, talked in a light and airy manner, liked to wear makeup and even publicly crossdressed, yet still had body hair and some muscle on his body, that would not be considered a "femboy" by 99% of people. But if I shown you a 15 year old boy with shaggy hair and shooped some black lipstick on him, then there would definitely be "gay" people coming out of the woodwork lusting all over him calling him a "femboy".
"Femboy" is code for "Jailbait" at best, and is active pedophilia in disguise at worst. And I won't fucking stand for it, especially because "muh unrealistic body standards" are being applied to slightly-feminine bottoms like me. Sorry I don't look like a fucking child to you, there's no need to puke on my fucking legs because I didn't shave them.
>>3017See:
>>3016Who cares what you "stand" for. Go care about something better.
>>3020>Care for something betterFuck off. I'm not going to let my identity be used as a shield for fucking pedophiles. If you're not gay or a pedophile, you have no right to speak on the matter, because you're either A) not involved or B) not able to understand the situation on a fundamental level.
>>3018If it's MTF dysphoria, then I'd recommend doing what
>>3019 says to a degree. First is the physical, do some squats, give yourself a nice ass :3 also consider doing pushups because it'll give you quasi-breasts that are mostly muscle but they are a nice benefit even to a lot of gay guys
Second is to distract yourself with hobbies, especially shit like programming.
>>3021I'm gay, and I would have the "right" to care since you're being an edgy idiot that's thinking in liberal terms about politics, creating a storm out of a tea cup and waging a war with an army of one.
When you're older you'll understand.
>>3023damn so agressive
cant we all just get along :)
>>3022Ah now calm down. You'll be fine without HRT, even if you grow a bit of hair. Consider looking into what is considered "bro science", they may be onto something. Eat peanut butter, for example, put seed oils in your diet, eat some soy, etc. That first one, for example, probably is the cause for me (and my mother's) massive tits. My grandfather said eating a lot of peanut butter would give you big tiddies, so my mother ate a lot of peanut butter for that very reason. I just liked peanut butter, and I ate it raw off the spoon. And lo and behold, both my mother, and me - an AMAB, have massive boobs.
>>3023>edgy"Edgy" is just a new slanderous term for anyone that has a hot take that may be a bit on the inflammatory side, but is heartfelt and logically sound. Stop trying to deflect my arguments against something that's a genuine growing problem within our collective.
>>3025do i really not need it…
i have to wait 3 years to get it again
it scares me so much i cant let T ruin my body for that long T~T
>>3027no I cant
i can order it but i wont be able to get it
id rather not explain my situation but i cant get any sent to my home im freaking the fuck out
>>3024Not my intent. I am basically trying to tell our friend here that he's caring about a seriously non-issue, and seemingly wanting to wage a holy culture jihad against "society" for it. This femboy shit is a fad, there's been others before it. The emo crazy of the late oughts didn't make everyone a bisexual pedophile. It's an infantile way to think of sexuality, and entirely reliant on how people act on the internet, rather than real social and sexual interactions in real life **(to put it bluntly, its entirely divorced from reality, aka "unhinged")*. IMO this type of position is reflective of consuming too much virtual reality, "hyper reality" (not necessarily digital), as well as a fundamentally liberal world view.
Of course, I don't mean to offend. I know liberal is used as an insult. I don't doubt our friend is an avowed marxist. I invite him to apply his learnings to the topic of sexuality, sexual emancipation, "masculine" and "feminine" tropes as they relate to the sexes and history, the development of gender more generally, as well as misogyny, and in this specific case the historic view of pedophilia, especially considering the difference in Anglo cultures vs other cultures, both in the present and the past.
>>3025>a genuine growing problem within our collective.Again, thinking like a liberal. There is no gay "collective" and normalizing femboys won't change the sexual preferences of gay people.
Try again.
>>3030i understand lol
i disagree with him as well but im just trying to keep everyone peaceful because thats just who I am haha
>>3031what if
there is no collectives at all
>>3026Look, HRT definitely helps. But throughout all of it, if you really can't get it, the best you can do is mitigate what issues come up and keep a positive attitude.
>>3030Do you really expect a mentally ill, love-starved bottom to have any reasonable judgement? All the things you're typing are like a word soup to me; I'm lost in this passionate anger towards you for even remotely rejecting my thoughts.
All I can hope is forgiveness, even if it likely won't be reciprocated.
>>3034I just wanna be free T~T I should be able to buy my HRT no issues and do what i want
fucking reactionaries
why did it have to be this way
>>3033There's organizations. There's communist organizations. NGOs. Companies. These things do exist. The gay "collective" is made up and an astroturf.
>>3034I don't feel ill towards you, so I can't forgive you. Not sure why you're so worked up. Take care, friend. I think it would be helpful to reconsider some of your positions and your internalized homophobia/misogyny. I didn't understand what you implied with the bottoms stuff, but there's nothing "wrong" with being a bottom. I don't get why you brought it up.
>>3038groups are simply individuals seeking their own goals collectives are dare I say
a spook
>>3038Why does your fucking post make me feel even worse
holy shit
>>3038>>3017Ok so re-reading your comment maybe you implied you're love starved and a bottom?
There's a lot of diversity in the gay world. You are evidently young and inexperienced. There are many bottoms of all types and many types of tops too. Many don't even like penetrante sex. It's a whole world out there. You're the one putting these unfair standards upon yourself, presumably because you think this is how people will like you or you had one tiny uncomfortable experience with someone who commented on your body hair.
Maybe you hang out with himbo twinks that all look exactly the same. Just like the bottom gym bro clique that look like clones. These are "scene" people. They are the most visible, but not the majority of gays. Most gays are just normal people who are gay.
Of course it changes depending on where you live and who you hang out with or where you go out to, but believe me, there's all types of gays out there. And everyone is someone else's type. Be patient and get to know more people.
As you grow older and put effort into socializing, you'll realize that your thoughts about "the gays" were not accurate at all.
>>3041I have no idea why. How do they make you feel? Worse in what way?
>>3044i might be able to get it to a friends house but i need to find who
if that doesnt work out what can i do to reduce my T levels
>>3025>Ah now calm down. You'll be fine without HRT, even if you grow a bit of hair. Consider looking into what is considered "bro science", they may be onto something. Eat peanut butter, for example, put seed oils in your diet, eat some soy, etc. That first one, for example, probably is the cause for me (and my mother's) massive tits. My grandfather said eating a lot of peanut butter would give you big tiddies, so my mother ate a lot of peanut butter for that very reason. I just liked peanut butter, and I ate it raw off the spoon. And lo and behold, both my mother, and me - an AMAB, have massive boobs.Anon if you don't know what you're talking about, why the fuck did you write this post? This is the dumbest shit I've ever read. Coming off HRT sucks and
>>3022 should DIY
since that I am in a very conserative country, I don't really know how to deal with this thing, I feel so opressed in this notion, I am still in the closet, I sometimes feel just so ashamed and that I feel very near from exposing myself and my true intentions and who I really do love. I am a pansexual, I haave a very hard time to confess anything, to have a normal relationship like any normal human being.
at the same moment I just can't support the idpol nature of the LGBTQ+ movement, it feels so liberal, I can't just stand it, and I can't agree with some of it's thesis, it feels so stupid and so liberal thing to particpate in, but the more I feel that I have no option to gain at least the smallest part from my own freedom, I lean to fight for this very small personal freedom by taking their side, not to make it superior to the class cause for sure, because this is the core of my problem with the LGBTQ+ movement.
but god I just want to have a normal love, I want to throw myself in the lap of my beloved, and I want him to soothe me by his gentle kisses!
I feel that my brain is going to explode from this contradiction I feel in myself, and I feel with shame.
>>3062you know what, I was going to say something along the lines of "I don't give a fuck about Henry Pissinger or whoever", but after a look on wikipedia, alright.
>>3063Could you at least not like, lie to me about
>the world is a better place with you in it than without >>3071Weed doesn't grow booba and butt or make your brain have the right hormones or make you feel girly
T. Pothead tran
>>3090:(
I'm not surprised its why I made this thread since leftypol is way more homophobic and transphobic than any communist social media I've ever been on
>>3067Eh, now that I'm feeling "better" I just feel numb. The strangest part is my libido, it's like this weird absent feeling. Being a degenerate piece of shit (See:
>>2802 for elaboration) I'm in several pornographic servers. Pretty much every piece of pornographic content just makes me feel this dull stomach ache; nothing more, nothing less. It's a horrid feeling, it's almost as if my body has cut off an - albeit necrotic - part of my very spirit.
>>3069Schizophrenia is a ""shorthand"" for what I believe to be Schizoaffective Disorder, or BPD with Psychotic Features. The general overarching summary that I can give for my mental ailment is that I'm very paranoid - prone to delusions of persecution or just mere delusions that if correct impose something dreadfully negative altogether, and I have a very unstable mood where my emotions are passionately felt and difficult to control. It's a very problem-causing issue. And no, I'm not getting a fucking therapist.
>>3089I've always thought about going to San Francisco.
>>3094Yeah but it doesn't even arouse me
Also - while I'm on this subject - how do i find bf
t. lives in fucking alberta, leafland
>>3083To a degree, yes, but I'm not talking a perfect approximation just something to compare with other mental processes involving bodily perceptions. Like I can know where any part of my body is in space relatively without looking and so do you likely but some people have a condition where they can't perceive their body position by feel and thus if they close their eyes or get in the dark they lose their balance or trip over themselves. There is phantom limb syndrome where a person feels a body part no longer there and are able to describe feeling something not there sometimes in form of pain. Then there is the rubber hand phenomenon where a person can react to a rubber hand as if it is their hand merely from a little sensory trickery and some VR users start perceiving their avatar as if it's their body temporarily. Then there is body iintegrity disorder where someone perceives part of their body as not being part of them. I think gender dysphoria outside of just gender identity relates to these sort of things. Gender identity on other hand is more a sociological thing.
>>3085>I did mean it in the literal sense. Clearly T is not right for my brain, E is. Not trying to sound argumentative or mean or anything but cant that be described also as not right for your mind? There is no boy brain and girl brain just an adaptable brain. Both males and females have both T and E. Both T and E modulate SERT transport as well and not in opposing ways. The brain does have sex hormone receptors so I'm not saying the brain cant rrespond to different hormones different but that both sexes have these same receptors. That's what I was originally getting at. There isn't really a need for a girl or boy brain to explain gender dysphoria.
>>3086Sort of but not really. It's not that being against idpol is being against minority groups it's that some people try to disguise their reactionary idpol calling it anti idpol. /leftypol/ is full of ex /pol/yps and they drag their shitty imageboard culture on every site they infect.
>>3093Not sure why just paranoia and persecutory delusions make you think you have schizophrenia. Just borderline personality disorder is enough to cause someone to be paranoid and think they are always persecuted. Unless you also hallucinate and have blunted affect and beliefs most people find very strange or something it doesnt sound strongly pointing toward psychotic symptoms. The standard treatment for borderline personality disorder is dialectic behavioural therapy. I would suggest mindfulness meditation however if you did happen to have a psychotic disorder I have seen studies suggesting meditation may in some cases be harmful. Why are you avoidant of therapy?
>>3099T and E affect the whole entire body, quite literally every single cell. Not just the brain
Gender dysphoria has many manifestations. You can simplistically understand it as BDD (body dysmorphic disorder) but gender specific, hating your body for being wrong
>>3102Yeah, I never suggested otherwise.
I know it can be compairable to that too among the other conditions I listed before. I have a decent grasp of some aspects of what it's like since I have body dysmorphia and depersonalization along with unclear feelings about how feminine or masculine id want to look.
>>3112i disagree with them ofc
but not all of us are marxists
or materialists
>>3109It's an inherent reaction (?) to Rainbow-Fascism (In essence, "middle class" - petty bourgeoisie promotion of idpol to distract from class consciousness)
It's irrational, sure, but not inhumane. It's reason is concern that the main objective of a Dictatorship of the Proletarian is being sidelined by relatively ineffectual issues that even if "solved" would mean nothing. It's something that just needs to be corrected through simple humanization of *the gays* or whatever, and a level of ignorance towards idpol that finds the comfortable plateau between "concern towards the subject" and "ignorance towards the subject".
>>3124well i share praxis with many groups i just know it will lead the other way than what they think
the truth is people are already doing the praxis for me they just are doing it for different endgoals that arent possible or are unstable
plus like any market or individualist anarchist is basically the same as me so idc
>>3128i wouldnt praise cuba or use it as a good example
but uhm yeah i guess
>>3130cuba isnt a good or nice place
that doesnt have a good government
the whole progressive shit is just a mask for the massively authoritarian bullshit they keep doing
they just arrested 381 people for being in a anti gov protest
But nah its okay man bc they are chill with the gays
>>3132thats bullshit
the best places are typically British territories
also yes it authoritarian you can fight against imperialism without statist bullshit
and im not gonna praise a "lesser of the two evils" situation i am against all of them
>>3135>being harsh with anyone is badno, being harsh with liberals, fascists, and all other flavour of rightoids is good. im going to put reactionaries in the fucking dungeon and you cant stop me, dont be a radlib anarchist, being soft to rightoids will only backfire.
cuba is very democratic relative to every other state that exists, it is a state ofc but if you think it is not the most democratic state then you have much more to learn about western liberal democracies and cuba, learn how cuba works in embedrel.
>inb4 deraili sorry in advance.
>>3098I don't know anyone under 20 and I don't care to.
If you are under 20, please kindly get out.
It is not the women who toil in the sweatshops of ‘developing’ countries that the transgender activists wish to ‘transition’ to; rather it is the objectified successful bourgeois women that they aim to be. The reality for working class women of negotiating the institutional and personal power struggles in which their lives are embedded is not part of the appeal for men who claim to be women. On the contrary, as in all other areas of life, working class women are treated as unimportant or ignored as the example of the prison makes clear.
There has been a glaring refusal on the part of the left to come to terms with the question of transgenderism and its impact on women – and by women I mean people who belong to the sex-class that has ovaries and is able to give birth. The levels of groupthink necessary to keep this ship afloat, the self-censorship, the intimidation, the blatant dishonesty, the denial of debate with howls of ‘transphobia’ point to a left in deep crisis. The middle class-dominated left has abandoned its obligation to critically engage, to clarify and to lead on the political issues of the day. Instead it has simply accepted the terms of the debate put forward by the trans militants (including their really basic conflation of sex and gender).
This failure is rooted in the left’s acceptance of identity politics with its assumption that how a group (or the primary definers within a group) articulates its oppression is the last word on the matter. Yet it is clear that one group’s identity and its claims may easily clash with the claims and identity of another group. Identity politics has no way of negotiating these conflicting claims. In the end the group that can mobilise the most power is the group that will have its claims prevail. In its catastrophic alignment with what is clearly a men’s rights movement, the left has chosen to side with the powerful over the less powerful, men over women, and the middle class over working class women – and it is they in particular who will bear the brunt of trans rights as currently formulated.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Unique IPs: 184