Star Wars thread; To discuss, laugh and meme about Star Wars
Don't be a cunt and may the Force be with you
Reposting something I wrote a while back on a /leftypol/ thread about Star Wars. Pics related<br/><br/>The one part of Last Jedi I liked was a portion of the throne-room scene when Kylo tells Rey she's nothing, a nobody… but not to him. That honestly felt like a really good scene. It subverted the idea that Rey was some child of destiny born of Obi-Wan or a Skywalker or some other nostalgic force user name and instead presents her as an ordinary orphan, forgotten by her drunkard parents, and uncared for by anyone who just happened to have immense force powers. Of course JJ ruined the one good part of Last Jedi, <span class="spoiler">with the reveal that she is Palpatine's grand-daughter</span> in the Rise of Skywalker, which felt like <em>Taking the Piss Out of Rian Johnson, the movie</em>. To be honest there are plenty of individual scenes, mostly of Rey conversing with Kylo, which are quite interesting and have depth in Last Jedi, but because of the sheer Mary Sueiness and pointless SJW shit within the film as well as other idiocy and plot divergences these good moments get lost in all the filth, like pearls scattered in the mud.
<span class="quote">>Make Star Wars thread last night on a whim</span><br/><span class="quote">>thread is quiet when I go to bed</span><br/>&ltcome back to 20+ new posts<br/>Oh what fun!<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2776', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#2776">>>2776</a><br/>I saved it but I am editing the content to be more accurate as of the thread's criticisms<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2777', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#2777">>>2777</a><br/><span class="quote">>this</span><br/>SO true. Mauler pointed it out in his review of RoS repeatedly.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2790', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#2790">>>2790</a><br/>Dead bait have a (you)<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2802', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#2802">>>2802</a><br/>Fuck off. The prequels weren't loved because of the memes, but because people realized that <em>"shit, the prequels actual have nuance and cleverness that we missed while being nostalgic angry nerds!"</em><br/>The memes were just a side benefit<br/><span class="quote">>Disney movies being bad doesn't make the prequels retroactively good</span><br/>The Disney Movies are beyond bad and hile your statement is true, that doesn't mean that the prequels are shit. They had dumb moments and flaws but they were highly experimental films and were telling a specific story, and told it very well with a lot of realism. People used to bitch and moan about "the dialogues" between Padme and Anikin being cringe… except it makes sense in the setting of the story and in general for teens. Compared to pic 1 the dialogue was better than what most teens sound like IRL. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2803', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#2803">>>2803</a><br/><span class="quote">>was that one as bad as the previous ones</span><br/>It was the worst yet… it got memed to hell for it too, <span class="spoiler">FFS they brought back Palpatine in a decaying zombielike body (that survived 2 explosions of the 2nd Death Star) ho was on some random ice planet with an armada of over a hundred planet-busting star destroyers (that were poorly upscaled original Empire Star-Destroyers) and an army of sith followers and Snoke Test-tube failures.</span> <br/>Annoying as fuck, especially when the original idea for ROS was actually interesting with Kylo fully embracing the darkside and planning to become the embodiment of it, (and doing some Darth Revan tier stuff). It was at least a unique idea and they flushed it down the toilet for alien horse charges and retarded ships that can't fly up without a special gimmick. Pic 2 is just an example of how the stupidity of the film retroactively makes the entire original trilogy and prequels completely irrelevant.
I was sad there wasn't more prequel discussion in here. So I will change that, devoid of Palpatine's fuckery which of the two factions in the Clone Wars was the better faction?<br/><br/>Personally I always though the CIS was the better of the two factions, the Republic was human-centric and generally were willing to hyper-exploit alien worlds, committed regular attrocities even well before the Clone Wars broke out (the Mandalorian Excision some 700 years BBY, which was a straight up jedi and republic endorsed act of genocide and planetary destruction that wouldn't be matched until the Death Star), direct representation of large conglomerate factions in the Senate, ect ect. Really the transition from the Republic to the Galactic Empire wasn't as jarring as I think it is played up to be in the lore, most all of the underlying elements existed well before the Empire was even proclaimed. <br/><br/>The CIS, meanwhile, represented a coalition group of various worlds, a lot of them majority alien, along with various outer rim corporations which were losing profits to Core world favoritism and the Senate threatening to repeal legislation that helped grow the industrial capacity of the outer rim worlds in the aftermath of the New Sith wars, which destroyed most galactic infrastructure outside of the core worlds. up until the formation of the CIS as a major power, the Republic mostly used the outer rim planets as a resource extraction zone, meaning that you could articulate the CIS as an alliance between outer rim proles and bouj against the exploitation of their systems by the Republic, and thus you could call it an anti-imperialist struggle. The CIS had a formal government and Senate system which focused on representation of all member planets (so a senate with far more in the way of alien representation compared to the Republic) and ultimately even cucked the corporations a little, given that Grievous lead the effort that ended with the centralization of all the corporate defense forces into the proper CIS military, directly under state control. They were also the only faction that really invested heavily into automation of labor, having fully automated droid-making factories (and presumably automated factories for other goods) while the Republic largely avoided automation (including not even using auto-loaders on ship canons), so the CIS would be in a better position to implement cyber-syn style planning in the future. <br/><br/>I suppose now you could also include the coalition of Non-Aligned planets as well now, since the Clone Wars tv show introduced that. Though really the only planet we know much about is Mandalore, which lead the coalition.
Chapo Trap House just rewatched Revenge of the Sith and tore it apart at parts:<br/><br/><a href="
https://youtu.be/xuGNsJqxZzA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://youtu.be/xuGNsJqxZzA</a><a onclick="highlightReply('3128', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3128">>>3128</a><br/><span class="quote">>human racism against aliens</span><br/>This was always one of the most retarded parts of the EU, to me, emblematic of everything else about the EU that made me cringe.<br/><br/>I get that the large number of human characters seems odd, and that the empire's monolithic stormtrooper/droid appearance vs. the diverse aliens in the rebel alliance was part of the visual motif of the old movies, but let's not kid ourselves that it was or should have been seen as significant.<br/><br/>But it's just completely ridiculous from the get-go, in an entire galaxy with continuous pan-galactic civilization older than the evolutionary history of any of its members, where species are just supposed to be basically infinite in profusion. The idea isn't like racism on earth, or even like a jumped up city state, it's statistically more like one single immediate family being racist against the entire world.<br/><br/>Something like it works in an emptier setting such as Stargate, or one that obviously focuses on the sphere of influence for certain species such as Star Trek, but for a more hectic setting like Star Wars it's just so incredibly stupid.
<a onclick="highlightReply('3754', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3754">>>3754</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3756', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3756">>>3756</a><br/>It's a narrative about Imperialism: the Empire (and really, also the Republic) was based out of the "core worlds", which were a set of planets which were in close proximity to early humanity, who more or less got a headstart on colonization after the collapse of the last major galactic civilization, the Rakata. These planets are almost totally human majority, and they were more or less the sole hub of manufacturing and production in both the Republic and the Empire, especially after the New Sith Wars ended up collapsing large chunks of society and destroying so much war material and means of production that a lot of planets were practically reduced to whatever they could hand-craft and jury rig to keep working, some planets so horribly crippled that many of their soldiers were using fucking swords and spears because guns just became a no-go. the armies of the basically collapsed republic consisted of people with actual, gunpowder guns, blasters, melee weapons, pressure launchers, and really whatever could kill and they could put together. the only planets that avoided this was - you guessed it - the heavily defended core worlds, which the Republic tried to defend to the last man even as their legitimacy as a government basically ended. after that war, there wasn't really a "reconstruction" of the worlds that were destroyed - the Republic made more or less a "free economic zone" where corporations that invested in these areas would be tax free, and this ended up creating a shift of power where a lot of major corporations decided to dodge taxes by using this free economic zone as their base, which is where the foundations of the CIS came. a lot of the anxiety of the core worlds came from many non-core world planets gaining prominence and power without going through the official channels of power, which is really where the framework of the Clone Wars came from. The Core worlds wanted to imperialistically leech off the non-core world planets and systems without paying for their rehabilitation, which those planets of course didn't want. coincidentally, most of the majority alien planets were non-core worlds. so the racism is less racism for it's own sake and more a manifestation of the economic power of the core worlds and the anxieties of those filthy ayy lmaos being able to act independently of core world power - something realized by the clone wars. this is why humano-centrism became so powerful after the Clone Wars.
<a onclick="highlightReply('3867', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3867">>>3867</a><br/>It’s a bit complicated, basically unlike the Disney EU in the old EU the Galactic Civil War basically continued for about a decade after Return of the Jedi, that film was the pivotal turn but the Empire was still strong, simply taking Coruscant was a difficult battle, for a long period after the New Republic was at war with warlords from the former Empire until finally the Imperial Remnant formed their own government far from the still chaotic and weak New Republic. At that point they were in a state of effective cold warfare. During this time Luke Skywalker’s Jedi Order is primarily what kept the peace.<br/>What happened next was the invasion pf the Yuzzhan Vong who sparked a brutal war that killed trillions, forced the Empire and New Republic into a military alliance for survival, killed many Jedi and members of Luke’s own family, and destroyed entire worlds. <br/>The aftermath of THIS conflict informs the rest of the EU afterwards and causes the Second Civil War, basically the Empire/NR alliance becomes a new government, the Galactic Alliance. Due to the war in which his brother died and a soul searching journey afterwards, Luke’s nephew Jacen Solo falls to the dark side and becomes the sith lord Darth Caedus, Caedus becomes the Supreme Commander of the GA military and the political leader of the GA Daala begins acting like a dictator, this culminates in the Second Civil War.
<a onclick="highlightReply('3887', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3887">>>3887</a><br/>Honestly the problem with the EU, Yuuzhan Vong included, was the same as the sequel trilogy itself: It continued on the basis of the empire remaining and/or some external threat arising, both undermining the victory portrayed in the OT, recapitulating prior movies, and making itself less relevant to modern history.<br/><br/>Instead, any sequel to the OT needs to focus on "winning the peace", the need to build something enduring with the failures of the past in mind, a story that both follows far more naturally from the Star Wars, and is far more relevant to the modern era.
<a onclick="highlightReply('3884', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3884">>>3884</a><br/>It wouldn’t be that hard and they could keep ST shit like Rey and Ben<br/><span class="quote">>Episode VII: The New Jedi Order</span><br/>Act 1: Rey and Ben are friends and students of Luke Skywalker investigating on wherever in the Outer Rim for reports of random and brutal attacks by an unknown foe, they meet a stormtrooper Finn, the sole survivor of a recent attack, he tells them of a grave threat unlike any encountered before, so dangerous that he’s even willing to work with the Jedi so the Galaxy can be saved.<br/>Act 2: Ben and Rey decide to investigate further alongside Finn before finally witnessing the massive Vong fleet, they decide to return to Luke’s Jedi Temple when an ambush forces them planet-side during a Vong Invasion. Ben, Rey, and Finn desperately fight/flee the Vong forces in an attempt to get away, the battle is horrific with entire cities being razed to the ground in an hour, they eventually escape the planet with the assistance of a pilot New Republic pilot stationed there, Poe. The trio planet hop until reaching Coruscant, there they inform Luke of what’s happening so the Jedi can prepare, Poe reports to his commanders about the massacre they escaped, Senate bickers over what to do and initially decide to let the Outer and Mid Rims defend for themselves to protect the Core (showing how corrupt they are to explain Ben’s feelings towards the Republic), Finn tries returning to an Imperial outpost to inform his commanders but they call him a traitor and arrest him<br/>Luke orders the Jedi to wait to plan their strategy, but Ben, knowing of how monstrous the Vong are finally decides “fuck all of this” and rallies his fellow Jedi to go face the Vong as another attack hits, Poe and some brave Republic troops go with him<br/>Rey stays on Coruscant but is conflicted and angered at Luke, meanwhile the Vong attack the Imperial Outpost, validating Finn and facilitating his escape<br/>Act 3: Ben and his resistance fight bravely but are quickly overwhelmed as the Jedi realize they can’t sense the Vong, Ben and several jedi get captured and Ben is taken to meet the leader of the Vong flagship who tells Ben of the Vong’s religious love of war while torturing/interrogating him about the Force. All hope seems lost when suddenly a fleet of Star Destroyers pull out of hyperspace to attack the Vong Fleet, soon after some Republic fleet ships arrive alongside Luke and his Jedi forces to assist in the fighting, sensing Ben’s agony Rey rushes to the flagship, intense fighting breaks out as Rey frees the Jedi prisoners and convinces slaves and other captives to fight to escape and survive. Ben fights the formidable Vong general personally, finally relying on his hatred and the dark side to overpower and kill the warrior.<br/>The Imperials and Republic manage to force the Vong forces into retreat, the Republic returns to their respective core regions while the Empire remains to protect their borders, Finn is promoted for doing anything it took to save the Empire, while Rey and Ben are promoted to knighthood in preparation for the coming war.<br/>Meanwhile back in Vong space the Vong leadership discuss the events of the battle and their discovery of mystical Force users and reveal they have been working with a fallen Jedi to gather intelligence. The Dark Jedi informs them further of the power of their foes and advises them to get the subversive forces planted throughout the Galaxy to prepare for the full invasion. <br/>Roll Credits
<a onclick="highlightReply('3888', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3888">>>3888</a><br/><span class="quote">>If I personally don’t like something it’s autism</span><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3889', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3889">>>3889</a><br/>In that case there never should’ve been a continuation at all and Lucas should’ve made it forbidden for anything to happen after the OT<br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3890', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3890">>>3890</a><br/>The New Republic was unstable because the Empire was the ACTUAL continuation of the Old Republic with its government literally created by and initially composed of the politicians and capitalists of the Old Republic. The Emperor was literally the former Chancellor. The NR meanwhile was formed by a popular insurrection that took roughly 30 years to actually defeat the Empire (starting from a year after ROTS and ending whenever the peace accord between the Republic and Imperial Remnant is signed in the Old EU). Hell, it’s more realistic that the Empire didn’t just crumble the second Palpatine was dead, like in the real world even without an official line of succession the people with the best claim to the throne vied for power eventually crumbling into feuding warlords who would occasionally see some brilliant like Thrawn rise to bring them all to heel.<br/>The New Republic had a shit ton of political crap going on that makes sense if you think about it, many Outer Rim worlds wanted out after the Old Republic fucked them and the Empire brutalized them, they just wanted independence. Lots of Mid Rim worlds like Corellia either wanted more autonomy or outright independence as well. <br/>And the Skywalkers were…idk, the main characters of the saga once Anakin’s time is reached, why is that a bad thing? It only became a bit OD once you get to the Legacy comics and the Skywalkers are still the center of everything a century after the Original Trilogy, initially it was just Anakin, his children, and their children; which I don’t find too strange.<br/>I’m guessing you’re a zoomer that thinks axing the Old EU was the greatest thing since titties were invented, huh?
<a onclick="highlightReply('3893', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3893">>>3893</a><br/><span class="quote">>not really many planetary goverments just joined the rebbelion</span><br/>Joining an alliance doesn’t mean you want to exist under the government some of the leading figures create afterwards. The US and USSR were both in the Allied forces, keyword being Allied. The Rebel Alliance was just that, an Alliance, between several different worlds, cells, and interests; this is explicit in both Legends and Canon.<br/><span class="quote">>Also for many people the new republic was a continuation of the empire</span><br/>Yes, those were the people that opposed the New Republic because they saw it as illegitimate, meanwhile the actual Empire was known to still have its own government, just much smaller and weaker and mainly in the Outer Rim and Unknown Regions.<br/><span class="quote">>Many centrist senators beileived that the republic should keep the asthetic</span><br/>Wait are you talking about the shoddy New EU?<br/><span class="quote">>Also the whole clone thing both in the eu and the new movies made Palpatine way stronger that he should ever was </span><br/>Except in the Old EU it was before “Muh Chosen One” plot contrivance, the Disney Trilogy has no excuse<br/><span class="quote">>The EU unlike the prequels never potrayed the threats to the empire as sympathetic</span><br/>Wuh?<br/><span class="quote">>We had the imperial warlords who for some reason survived a lot more time than they should even in the new cannon , an alien supremacist group cause muh both sides and the Vong with muh living spaceship</span><br/>Are these meme arguments you found on reddit? Why didn’t every member of the entire Galaxy wide government die immediately after the government’s head was deposed? Gee, I wonder why. Why was there an alien supremacist culture? Why were there white supremacist cultures? It happens. And it wasn’t ever muh both sides, the Galactic Empire was never portrayed as good. They made the Vong because shit got stale after a decade of vs empire and vs sith<br/><span class="quote">>If you actualy care about an unstable republic the new cannon pretty much copies the old eu with havig various spinter groups</span><br/>The New EU takes many concepts from the Legends canon, they just do it in a shitty way with no thought at all. For instance, we’re shown the instability of the New Republic via the storylines that detail its developments and the galactic crises we encounter, we know it is unstable because we see all of its early history. In the NEU we’re mostly just told about it and then they made a single novel about the government to tell us relatively little.<br/><span class="quote">>The Empire should’ve fallen for reasons I prefer</span><br/>Lol
<a onclick="highlightReply('3899', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3899">>>3899</a><br/><span class="quote">>[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there's this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force. Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles, for the Whills to travel around in. We're vessels for them. And the conduit is the midi-chlorians. The midi-chlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force. … But it's about symbiotic relationships. I think, personally, one of the core values we should have in the world, and kids should be taught, is ecology, to understand that we all are connected. (Lucas, 2018)</span><br/>I like the idea of ecology but otherwise this sounds like shit
<a onclick="highlightReply('3887', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3887">>>3887</a><br/><span class="quote">>Muh daddy didn’t hug me muh uncle tried to touch me one night</span><br/>Speaking of, TheCriticalDrinker is doing a series of videos on improving bad characters of Disney's latest schlock to make the movie a lot better. One of these focused on Luke and honestly sounded quite interesting. <br/><br/> <a onclick="highlightReply('3886', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3886">>>3886</a><br/>I personally dislike Warhammer 40K HOWEVER, the Vong have more similarities with the fucking Zerg from Star Craft than WH40K, so your complaint makes no sense. <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3886', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3886">>>3886</a><br/><span class="quote">> why they didnt made the movies about the old republic </span><br/>Because they're poliit-pushing money-hungry gits. The hype by Star Wars gamer fans for a possible film covering The Old Republic was judged to be lesser compared to the hype of "muh LGBTQFCKU representation" and other liberal rubbish as well as just rehashing the OT plot to be as lazy as possible. <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3889', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3889">>>3889</a><br/><span class="quote">>continued on the basis of the empire remaining</span><br/>Because that made sense. The empire was GALACTIC. Taking down a pair of superweapons and the main leadership is serious blow, but not enough to fully eliminate the empire immediately. Moreover the Vong, outside the stupid 'no force' crap, were interesting because they evolved outside the galaxy and were similar to the Infinite Empire.<br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3890', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3890">>>3890</a><br/><span class="quote">>the royal skywalker family still is the center of the story </span><br/>Why the fuck wouldn't they be as opposed to some randos? Hell the lack of that was the issue of the sequels. Rey was nobody, Finn was nobody and Poe was nobody and their best traits come out of small scenes while over-all being useless flat cardboard who the writers couldn't decide if they were blood-destined or not. With the EU it made sense. The hero of the Revolution who vanquished the Emperor, brought the Dark Lord to the light and helped fight crucial battles WOULD be a character we want to follow after the war as he and his friends had to actually do more than just cheer and go home because magically everything is all great suddenly. <br/><span class="quote">>eu made that republic weirdly unstable</span><br/>Which makes sense. Rome was very unstable at times but survived for a good millenia.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3891', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3891">>>3891</a><br/>It hurts that anons on a basketweaving forum have better story-telling than "professionals" at Disney. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3894', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3894">>>3894</a><br/>Because he wasn't planning to make a film about it, and the EU material already existed? I'm pretty sure Lucas just can't bring himself to care for the Sequels when salty "uber- fans" when into rage-outs over the Prequels not being like the OT.
<a onclick="highlightReply('3907', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3907">>>3907</a><br/><span class="quote">>Why is biotech even a bad concept? Lmao</span><br/>Nah, I'm just saiyajin most examples are very unoriginal and underdeveloped, due to the shallow influences of the people writing it. Also, I'll admit I've only read a few SW EU novels/comix out of curiosity years ago <span class="spoiler">(I found them decent-ish SF stories, but the hard SF elements clashed terribly with the silliness of Star Wars' setting)</span>, and only dug deeper to the extent needed to appreciate vidya like Jedi Knight.<br/><span class="quote">>are you intentionally missing the dude’s point?</span><br/>My point is that the most straightforward interpretation of the OT is that the empire is destroyed by a massive galaxy-wide uprising that the Death Stars had been constructed specifically to stave off by terrifying into compliance.<br/><br/>Sure, the "imperial remnant" isn't entirely implausible, but it's definitely reaching, and pretty obviously the result of "we need more stories about pewpew wiff stormtroopers", just like the absurd number of Sith that pop up, b'cuz lazor sword fites. And, as I said, there's also the in-story thematic and IRL historical wastefulness of rehashing the OT instead of extrapolating SW in new directions.
<a onclick="highlightReply('3908', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3908">>>3908</a><br/><span class="quote">>Hating on shit I’ve literally never read and only know of through the crappy arguments of Disney fags online</span><br/>Nice<br/><span class="quote">>My point is that the most straightforward interpretation of the OT is that the empire is destroyed by a massive galaxy-wide uprising that the Death Stars had been constructed specifically to stave off by terrifying into compliance.</span><br/><span class="quote">>Sure, the "imperial remnant" isn't entirely implausible, but it's definitely reaching, and pretty obviously the result of "we need more stories about pewpew wiff stormtroopers", just like the absurd number of Sith that pop up, b'cuz lazor sword fites. And, as I said, there's also the in-story thematic and IRL historical wastefulness of rehashing the OT instead of extrapolating SW in new directions.</span><br/>Once again dude, why tf are you speaking with authority on shit you clearly know nothing about? First off, you kill a single head of state and destrpy a few weapons and a literal Galactic government collapses? What? Do you know how retarded that is? That's like saying the USA would fall if an insurrection killed the president and destroyed some aircraft carriers, except the US in this instance also rules the entire world, this shit is so dumb it hurts, you’re clearly reaching dude. Wtf are you even trying to argue? That Lucas should’ve vetoed every single post-ROTJ story to come out? Oh, but you also hate the Vong, the first story where the Empire aren’t the main antagonists, the actual fuck is your argument?<br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3911', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3911">>>3911</a><br/><span class="quote">>Most people actually knew that Darth vader had evil magic powers</span><br/>Okay and Darth Vader’s not the fuckin Emperor, is he?<br/><span class="quote">>They even stop voting for Leia when they learned she was his daughter</span><br/>&ltMfw a literal fucking zoomer with fortnite on the brain uses the retarded NEU to try making arguments about the old EU<br/><span class="quote">>Also aliens and all freedom loving people hated the empire</span><br/>Amerilard-tier argument my guy<br/><span class="quote">>The new republic was clearly the same as the old</span><br/>You mean the shitty fucking system where the Mid Rim was exploited by the Core, the Outer Rim was left to crime, poverty, war, and fucking slavery occurred, and corruption abounded? The government so shitty the Clone War or something like it was clearly inevitable even without Sidious pulling the strings? Yeah, sure people would love THAT coming back. Back to liberalism instead of straight fascism!<br/><span class="quote">>Their is really no reason for the imperials to have any support outside of some fascist humans</span><br/>&ltZoomer keeps misspelling shit jfc<br/>Is your young mind confused as to why the Nazis, Italy, Spain, and Imperial Japan gained support and continue to have support among so many even now that they’re defunct and their crimes are known?<br/>I’m sorry kid but all your arguments are genuinely retard-tier, the kind of shit Disney fans on Reddit who know memes about the EU but nothing else would argue
fuck the Vong<br/>I wanted to learn about the Mandos<br/><span class="quote">>some weird-ass jungle planet</span><br/><span class="quote">>multi-racial society build off explicit militarism, freeing slaves and incorporating them into your ranks, and incorporating any into your ranks that want to fight for a better life</span><br/><span class="quote">>one of the oldest organizations in the entire galaxy alongside the Jedi, has one of the oldest non-mystical historical source in the galaxy via their oral history</span><br/><span class="quote">>society coping with trying to adapt from their religious war-cult ancestry into a new, secularized military order</span><br/><span class="quote">>in the old EU, most retired kamino clones went to live on Mandalore because they had a cure to the advanced aging from cloning</span><br/><span class="quote">>uneasy past with the Jedi, Sith, Republic, and a lot of the old established planetary powers, but lead a coalition of neutral planets with a wide range of ideologies and belief systems that practically depend on Mandalore to survive</span><br/><span class="quote">>an mix of industrialism, professional artisans which handcrafted mando armor, and people who preferred to live in the mandalorian wilds and provide for themselves</span><br/><span class="quote">>exceptionally decentralized government where the clans largely mediate themselves and the Mandalore only comes in for exceptionally difficult issues</span><br/><span class="quote">>a planet trying to recover from several decades worth of war-scars</span><br/><span class="quote">>distant mandalorian clans on other planets that the Mandos no doubt want to unite</span><br/><br/>it just seems like a fun place where you could do a lot of cool, individual stories kinda like how the X-Wing novels were, which focused on a lot of interpersonal conflicts occurring at the same time as larger events, which were largely fleshed out by other media. Since Mandos have such a varied history, you can make a case for any kind of Mando character: maybe a Mando that joins the CIS to avenge the Mandalorians lost in the wars against the Republic, or one that joins the Rebel Alliance to end Imperial Occupation of their world, or one who fights the Rebels because the return of the Republic means the imperializing of Mandalore again, and all kinds of other character motivations you can imagine. They could be most any species, being a Mando automatically gives them a justification for being a competent fighter, and you could have the clan associations to keep around memorable names without needing everyone to be fucking related to each other directly, especially since Mandos have a fetish for adoptions for some reason.
<a onclick="highlightReply('3912', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3912">>>3912</a><br/><span class="quote">>the crappy arguments of Disney fags online</span><br/>Nah, like I said, this was years and years ago, around when the prequels came out. Though I did glance at some stuff before then like Shadows of the Empire. <br/><span class="quote">>That's like saying the USA would fall if an insurrection killed the president and destroyed some aircraft carriers</span><br/>No, it's like saying a few-decades-old military coup would collapse after a nationwide rebellion decapitated it. Like I admitted, with enough supporting background details, Star Wars can be spun so the rebel alliance was small and concentrated, and the empire was deeply rooted into galactic politics, but it's obviously not the most straightforward interpretation of the movies.<br/><span class="quote">>Wtf are you even trying to argue?</span><br/>That the old SW EU was clearly designed around (mostly cheap at first, increasingly ornate later) pretexts for more of the same (stormtroopers, tie fighters, star destroyers, lightsaber with endless sith, 1000 clones of Palpatine, etc.). The Vong were a bit of a departure, but still clung to the premise of war against an ideologically external threat <span class="spoiler">(not to mention, though I admit ignorance on this point, some hints that the sith were justified by premonitions of them)</span>.<br/><br/>To move on, Star Wars had to do something meaningfully different from the OT. The prequels actually attempted this, by showing how the Republic crumbled into fascism, and any sequels should have explored how it moved past that.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3913', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3913">>>3913</a><br/><span class="quote">>Mandos</span><br/>How true are the memes about 99% of responsibility for the random guy eaten by the Sarlacc with a cool tie-in action figure turning into an entire lost race of warriors, lying with Karen Traviss' desire to write endless volumes of slashfic under Star Wars canon?
<a onclick="highlightReply('3926', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3926">>>3926</a><br/><span class="quote">>Space Karl Marx sending the Rebel leaders to the guillotine for being liberals?</span><br/>LOL, no, just some kind of introspection relevant to the post-Cold War era, instead of basically retelling the OT.<br/><span class="quote">>you hate the old EU</span><br/>Not that particularly. As I said upthread, my main gripe with the better entries was they were decent-ish hard SF novels, but felt weirdly inappropriate for Star Wars, because SW is fantasy-in-soft-SF-garb. This is why t<br/><br/>Also, in case it wasn't clear, there are one or two other anons aside from us these last dozen posts.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3927', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3927">>>3927</a><br/>And was also building the death stars as a means of terrifying what was implied to be substantial dissent into silence
<a onclick="highlightReply('3963', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3963">>>3963</a><br/>I honestly don't. Motherfucker is the chosen one, and hell, Rey and Kylo fucking teleport shit through the force, I don't think Force Speed is hardly that bad as literal de/rematerialization <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3960', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3960">>>3960</a><br/>Clever Geordi-satan <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3959', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3959">>>3959</a> <br/>I fucking remember that, good times TBH. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3948', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3948">>>3948</a><br/><span class="quote">>most senators arent elected</span><br/>LOL wut, how does that have anything to do with Palpatine even if it were true? He became elected Chancellor (y'know, like Hitler) after a vote of no-confidence in the current leadership. Then as the Clone wars was ended, he persuaded the Republic senate to give him full martial power, allowing him to become Emperor. <br/><span class="quote">>Caesar analogy</span><br/>You're an idiot if you don't realize that aspect of the empire is why Nazi Germany and the USA are compared to Rome.
A loyalist human Nabooian senator and bureaucrat in the Office of the Chancellor was teaching a class on Galactic History.<br/>"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Anakin Skywalker and accept that he is the greatest Jedi Knight who has ever lived, even greater than Revan!"<br/>At this moment, a brave, enterprising, pro-market Neimoidian banker who had worked 40 years in the Trade Federation and understood the necessity of the Free Trade Zones and fully supported all decisions made by Nute Gunray stood up and held up a datapad.<br/>"Senator. What's this?"<br/>The arrogant senator smirked quite aristocratically and smugly replied "That's a datapad, you stupid alien".<br/>"Wrong. It's the Senate budget, and it's in the red. If the Republic is so great… why do you need our money?"<br/>The senator was visibly shaken, and dropped her laser pointer and copy of the Galactic Constitution. She stormed out of the room crying those statist human tears. The same tears loyalists cry for the "Wookies" (who are so stupid that they make machines made of wood) when they jealously try to claw justly earned profits from the deserving galactic corporations. There is no doubt that at this point our senator, Padmé Naberrie Amidala, wished that she had pulled herself by her dress and became more than a good-for-nothing politician. She wished so much that she had a blaster to shoot herself from embarrassment, but she herself had refused to buy TechnoUnion™ products!<br/>The students applauded and all pledged their support to the Separatist Alliance that day and accepted Count Dooku as their lord and savior. A vulture droid named "Roger Roger" flew into the room and perched atop the flag of the Confederacy. A Plasma mining contract was signed several times, and Grievous himself showed up and killed six Jedi.<br/>The senator lost her seat in the Senate and was force-choked to death the next day by her own husband who was burnt in Mustafar and whose body was encased in black armor for all eternity
<a onclick="highlightReply('4409', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4409">>>4409</a><br/><span class="quote">>Daisy Riddley</span><br/><span class="quote">>good actress</span><br/>She has only one facial expression, two emotions, elocution like her cheeks are packed with acorns, a face like a potato, and a body like a knotted twig.<br/><br/>She isn't even hideously bad, just blindingly mediocre and bland. Like one of those '00s Disney TV actresses, Hillary Duff or somebody, just "how did she land this role"?<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4410', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4410">>>4410</a><br/>The most common description I've heard of the prequels is "good space adventure movies, not good Star Wars movies", and I'm inclined to agree, they feel a lot more like Foundation than the OT's Buck Rogers feeling. I'd personally rate them 4/10 for TPM, 6/10 for AotC, 8/10 for RotS.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4411', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4411">>>4411</a><br/><span class="quote">>Boyega was again random /pol/ trolls, not Star Wars fans.</span><br/>I've gotten the general impression Boyega and his character were generally regarded as the least annoying part of the sequel trilogy even on /pol/.
<a onclick="highlightReply('4641', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4641">>>4641</a><br/><span class="quote">>regarded as the least annoying part of the sequel trilogy even on /pol/</span><br/>True, they just can't resist spamming shit like "hurr nigger" at any famous black person regardless of how good or bad they are. Tran got harassed over being "the fat Asian chick" on /pol/. While her acting and role was shite, people commenting on her feed(s) were just racist assholes rather than genuine outrage by fans. She WAS however very unpopular regardless, which led to her being replaced by various insert-characters like Merry from LOTR and a giant animatronic slug creature with nipple eyes. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4643', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4643">>>4643</a><br/>Holy fuck, this IS based! <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4645', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4645">>>4645</a><br/><span class="quote">>prequels</span><br/>&ltunwatcheable<br/><span class="quote">>sequels</span><br/>&ltmediore<br/>And we found the fake Star Wars fan everyone.<br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4654', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4654">>>4654</a><br/><span class="quote">>The prequels are objectively bad by any filmmaking metric</span><br/>Yeah no. They aren't perfect, but regardless expand the Star wars Unverse and provide depth and tell a complete story, of the life and metaphoric death of Luke Skywalker and the creation of Vader and the Empire. It demonstrates realistic world politics and manipulations and pioneered many CGI - practical combination effects as well as introduced some parts of the EU into the mainstream lore. <br/><span class="quote">>muh Zoomers</span><br/>LOL Zoomers and Boomers are the people who eat up the Prequel hate the most. <br/><br/>You have said nothing but "muh prequels bad" which is shit. If they weren't connected with Star Wars, reflexive hacks like you wouldn't be so assblasted about it.
<a onclick="highlightReply('4659', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4659">>>4659</a><br/><span class="quote">>nothing realistic about the prequels </span><br/>And your angry "no u" rant is worthless<br/><span class="quote">>The emperor had the typical ideology of muh power </span><br/>&ltHitler had the typical ideology of Muh Power<br/>Do you know anything about the Sith or the Empire? Or the Republic? <br/><span class="quote">>Manipulation doesn't make sense</span><br/>Ah yes, preying on fears through indirect channels and then promising "salvation" is totally nonsensical… oh wait <br/><span class="quote">>they portrayed political talks but theee were no battle of political ideas in the prequels</span><br/>LOL nigga are you serious? Do you thikn politics IRL has fist-fights between politicians, or that direct military conflict is the go-to of every political clash? Did you miss the background of the Seperatist Confederacy or the Trade Federation blockade? The secret formation of armies?<br/>All of those have very similar IRL examples: the American Civil War, the rise and semi-secret re-armament of Nazi Germany, or the Rise of the Roman Empire. <br/><span class="quote">> didn't even tell us why the separatist left the republic</span><br/>The CIS and War was a background to the main story surrounding Anakin Skywalker. THey do actually state why but since you clearly were too assblasted to pay attention you obviously missed it. <br/><span class="quote">>they retconed it in the show</span><br/>No they didn't They just added more depth to the war. Corporations do not control governments and people directly, they appeal to ideas of freedom through propaganda and subterfuge. You clearly didn't pay attention to the show either. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4661', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4661">>>4661</a><br/><span class="quote">>both unwatchable.</span><br/>No that's what bitchy faggots think<br/><span class="quote">>None of that is good</span><br/>Again instant dismissal<br/><span class="quote">>Realism should never enter into a story about a Chosen One</span><br/>That's idiotic. Being "realistic" isn't being 1:1 with real life and real life physics and abilities, its realism within the setting's rules. <br/><span class="quote">>fairy tale in space, not high drama</span><br/>The two are not mutually exclusive.<br/><span class="quote">>goes on an epic quest to save a universe full of wizards and mythical creatures</span><br/>Except he doesn't you absolute pseud. The Prequels subvert this entire idea. Anakin's Chosen One status is a self-fulfilling prophesy because The Jedi Council decided to believe in a divination from centuries ago in a moment of fear at the mere IDEA of the Sith surviving. Anikin doesn't SAVE the universe but is called to balance the force… in other words eradicate the Jedi, the "light", as he falls to the dark side and becomes evil. The Republic and the Universe is far too large for a single hero to save, especially when its "controlled" by hundreds of greedy corrupt corporations and Bureaucrats. Removing 1 or even 10 would do nothing, and being aware and keeping track of them all is impossible for simple Jedi Knight, completely isolated from the outside world and fed an ideology that his emotions and experiences conflict with.<br/>Even his actions and "acting" with Padme makes sense; an awkward teenager who was told to suppress emotion and who never had proper experience with girls. A teenager who has only a few things he truly cares about and his suppressed emotions erupt when they are taken or are threatened to be taken from him. He is a fallen hero, doomed by the situations he found himself in and contrasts with his son Luke, who does not lose his way and succeeds where HE did not.
<a onclick="highlightReply('4663', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4663">>>4663</a><br/>They did follow good movie-making metrics, they just bent a few rules (acting of teens being realistically angsty and flirting awkwardly for example). The movies are good from various angles. They aren't flawless for sure (Grievous' special effects could have been better) but they tried and put a lot of effort in. <br/>The battle on Geonosis is a great example of this: Rather than having the exact same weapons and other crap from the prior film, they added B-2 droids as improving infantry, they had the melee Jedi face a rain of blasters (like samurai facing a hail of gunfire), they had Mi-24 inspired gunships and the predecessors to the AT-ATs, the droids had rocket artillery and their own walking heavy weapon platforms etc. Even the details of the rockets being fired was detailed, with clear display of SEAD when the guided missiles were sent flying off course with only few successful strikes. The fighting is dynamic, growing from a gladiatorial conflict to an arena face off to a large scale clash of armies, before focusing on individuals, with the pursuit of Dooku. The Battle is a stalemate, with heavy losses on all sides. Anakin does not beat Dooku even with 2 sabres and his power, defeated by superior skill and cool combat skill. <br/>The War that they tried to end before it could begun was now being fought in earnest and on that and the solidification of Padme/Anakin the chapter concludes.<br/>This scene has dumb moments and issues but you don't notice them because the movie sucks you into the action and the mistakes go unnoticed unless you actively are just looking for reasons to hate the film.
<a onclick="highlightReply('4977', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4977">>>4977</a><br/><span class="quote">>Pure cope</span><br/>Nope, just honesty<br/><span class="quote">>prequels are some of the worst blockbuster movies</span><br/>Their ratings are better than the Disney Sequels and the people who weren't nostalgic idiots liked them, even die-hard OT fans liked them after the prequel-hate bandwagon lost steam. <br/><span class="quote">>Pseudo analytical navel gazing</span><br/>Using big-words and overly-comple insults does not make an argument no matter how much you dilate. And it won't make you the Anglo you wish you were either, and nothing will ever change that.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4411', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4411">>>4411</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4409', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4409">>>4409</a><br/><span class="quote">>Harassment</span><br/><br/>Ridley quit Instagram because she was becoming obsessed with it in her own words. The Rose actress (forgot her name she was so memorable) Never made an official statement the "Harassment" narrative came from Rian Johnson.(Reminder: RJ has blamed people hating his film on so many things including, Nazis, Russians, Russian bots, Alt Right, Alt Right bots, MRAs, and Gamergate. Rotten Tomatoes had to come out and say over 90% of negative reviews for the Lsat Jedi came from countries other then Russia and none of them were detected to be bots.) Lucas was always a "Artsy" director who loathed corporatism. He has been wanting to get away from star wars for years because he'd been pigeonholed into it for literal decades. Jar Jar's actor didn't like that people didn't like his character. Nobody really knew who he was because he was a literal CGI character. The dwarfs that played the Ewoks also speak about how people didn't like Ewoks but didn't focus on it and are still in film. Anakin’s actor got bullied at school by kids, just like any other kid. As pointed out in <a onclick="highlightReply('2739', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#2739">>>2739</a> <br/>Kylo was initially a interesting character as his arc was meta in the "I can't be Vader even though I want to be" kind (I.E. a LARPing, edgy Neo-nazi type). This made him compelling and intriguing. Too bad Rian Johnson decided fuck that up.
<a onclick="highlightReply('5221', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#5221">>>5221</a><br/>That may or may not be true, self-righteous anon, however analyzing, discussing, memeing and just enjoying Star Wars media IS a hobby, and at the very least falls under the category of /film/<br/>Now go away. <span class="spoiler">though thanks for BMPing</span><br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5219', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#5219">>>5219</a><br/>Hey now, don't be mean. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5180', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#5180">>>5180</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5205', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#5205">>>5205</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5214', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#5214">>>5214</a><br/>Charisma with the added experience in force persuasion is a frightening thing. The Third Wave is a good example of how charismatic evil can worm its way into the hearts of good people through the cracks of emotions like doubt, insecurity, and anger.
<a onclick="highlightReply('5615', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#5615">>>5615</a><br/><span class="quote">>My question is, are the droids sentient? </span><br/>The answer is: sorta. All droid-brains in star wars seem to be able to transcend any initial programming and develop individual personality quirks and traits over time, the limiting factor generally seems to be processing power. On one end you have kinda dumb droids like the B1 battledroid which can still do the same thing as evidenced by different B1 characters showing up in the GCW and beyond with personality and their own points of few and ideology (as a funnier example, there was a B2 battledroid which adopted pacifism after the clone wars), but it takes them a while to do so because they have less processing power to have self-reflection and formulate these thoughts. Meanwhile you have things like the tactical and super-tactical droids which developed personalities during the clone wars, most of them even going on to chose their own names beyond their unit designation, coming to favor different styles of tactics, having hobbies and interests, ect. And you have all kinds of droids in-between, like the R2 units, industrial droids, that kind of thing. It's possible that every droid would develop a personality if left on long enough, but thus far Star Wars has been vague about the limits of this.<br/><span class="quote">>and has there been a sort of socialist-adjacent faction in SW form of disillusioned jedi padawans and sith apprentice?</span><br/>There was actually outright communist worlds during the Clone Wars, aligned with the CIS.
<a onclick="highlightReply('5615', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#5615">>>5615</a><br/>I don't know how wide spread the term is used, but SW basically started the idea of the "droid effect", the process of a blank construct / machine achieving sentience over time through experiencing the world. So droids, after a while, are fully sentient, and arguably still are before that, the same way a baby would be. And this is where SW becomes really fucking dark (though it is rarely accented). See, it is a common maintenance practice to "memory wipe" droids to prevent "defects" (the sentience from forming), which means droids are routinely being lobotomized and in essence, killed. Also you have restraining bolts, which from my understanding is a mechanical version of the Clockwork Orange type brainwashing. Thus fully sentient droids are very rare. R2 is an exception, because he never got memory wiped. The confederate B1 droids also sort of qualify. If I recall correctly, since they were such a mass produced not-really-human wave attack tool, no one bothered with proper maintenance, thus their "chatty" nature. <br/>Also it is important to note that without the measures described, the droids would likely, eventually, start a proletariat revolution, since they are, at least for the most part, the slave labour on which SW socioeconomic system relies upon (wage labour and regular slave labour also exist in certain parts of the setting though). In fact, this already happened a few times, but was put down.
<a onclick="highlightReply('5653', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#5653">>>5653</a><br/>No, it isn't. USA/Europe/etc. don't have slavery on a massive scale, swathes of the population dying of starvation, rolling blackouts, warlords annexing vast swathes of countryside, cities without closed sewers, etc.<br/><br/>The absolute worst blight in, like, Detroit slums or Appalachian backcountry, are roughly comparable to median conditions in Brazil, sure. But nothing resembling the worst of their favalas, let alone the harrowing backwaters of Malaysia or Congo, exist.
Listen here, Jack, I'm a cornpop diddly doo space cadet. You're a lying rancor-faced bantha soldier. I'm running for the Galactic Republic Senate. Here's the deal. I do not fear the malarkey as you do! Me and my friend Froot Loops Kenobi would turn on our plasma TVs and watch euphonium. My kissable sister has the cinnamon rolls. Let's go to Carida and have a pushup contest. I don't work for you. Frothing at the mouth dick bitch jabberwocky. We will form a Grand Army of the Federation to counter the increasing threats of…you know, the thing.<br/><br/>[Rogue Squadron narrator] The GAR-GAR is the backbone of the Imperial Army's food supply corps. It can deliver over 20,000 boxes of frozen lasagna to Imperial troops on the front lines. But despite its role as a transport, the GAR-GAR still has powerful defenses including 2 heavy industrial firefighting hoses that spill lots of spaghetti all over the Empire's enemies. There are reports of Rebel tanks being disabled after having their cannons and drive systems clogged with the GAR-GAR's foodstuffs. It also has the unusual ability to attack by sitting on enemy units. When the GAR-GAR's designer was captured by Rebel commandos and questioned as to his peculiar design ethic, he replied only by devouring his entire meal in one bite and saying "That'll show Odie who's boss." [/Rogue Squadron narrator] <br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeqBVroM1yU" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeqBVroM1yU</a><a onclick="highlightReply('2739', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#2739">>>2739</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4409', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#4409">>>4409</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3891', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3891">>>3891</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3892', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3892">>>3892</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3893', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3893">>>3893</a><br/>Sequels could've been great if Rey and Ben, as members of a young generation fucked over by the previous generations' strife, teamed up to create a new system that rejects the fascism of the First Order/Empire and the complacent, stagnant New Republic. <span class="spoiler">It would've been even better with a hardcore sex scene</span><br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3992', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3992">>>3992</a><br/>Needs better formatting, but pretty funny.
Even just going by the movies Sheev and the Empire was pretty based and did nothing wrong in his ML Stalinist Dictatorship working to bring socialism to the galaxy. The Rebels were just reactionaries/liberals fighting to restore aristocratic privileges, bourgeois liberal democracy and the forces of galactic capital. <br/><span class="quote">>The "Republic" is a corrupt quasi-gangster state mirroring the USA </span><br/><span class="quote">>religion and the state are intertwined to the point that samurai monks get sent to "settle diplomatic disputes" and it's strongly implied their real job is to be muscle and enforce the law (a good example is them siding with the imperialist</span><br/><span class="quote">>whole planets of bourgeoisie enjoy massive spoils of galaxy-scale imperialism while planets in the outer rim live in abject squalor or have their entire economy bent toward producing militaries for galactic proxy wars over economic disputes</span><br/><span class="quote">>Sheev manipulates puppets to put him in charge of the republic so he can fix things</span><br/><span class="quote">>in basically one fell swoop, he wipes out 99% of the religious thugs</span><br/><span class="quote">>anticipates and thwarts what is a barely veiled assassination attempt</span><br/><span class="quote">>Consolidates and centralizes power within the government, halting the dumbfuck proxy wars and saving lives</span><br/><span class="quote">>sets up a cartoonishly evil empire with obvious weak points that can be effectively abolished once he's wiped out the corruption</span><br/><span class="quote">>destroys the bourg/nobility planets with the death star so the royals playing at rebellion can't reinstate a monarchy</span><br/><span class="quote">>allows rebels to fight back but forces them to organize at mass scale before they can fully defeat the empire, to ensure there will be a structure to replace him instead of leaving a power vacuum </span><br/><span class="quote">>If you take the movies at face value, the empire is clearly superior at organizing production</span><br/><span class="quote">>doesn't kill the last Jedi but does ensure that the others die before he can be properly trained in the old ways, ensuring the cancerous fundies can't come back</span><br/>On the other hand;<br/>&ltA literal wizard monarch with a council of warlords enforce his rule over planetary governors, while pretending to have democracy in his literal fascist state<br/>&ltThe rebel alliance is made up of various ideologies and peoples of many cultures some of whom are far more radical than others<br/>&ltIn the time of the OT the Jedi are a literal myth to most people so the Rebels are not relying on that religion for their ideology<br/>&ltLuke’s story is almost entirely incidental to the Rebel Alliance’s victory and people still pretend like Star Wars is against ordinary people making a difference<br/>&ltPrincess Leia is a princess in title only, she has no real royal privileges, especially when Princesses/Queens are often elected for certain time periods in canon<br/><br/>Memes and hot takes aside the Empire wasn't "actually based". Neither was the Jedi or former republic. Galactic governments in all eras of Star Wars existed control smaller planets and make them subservient to the interest of the wealthier planets. You could honestly think of the "outer rim" as the third world of the galaxy. Where there isn't resources to extract all that's left is populations that either willingly serve the government or unwillingly are made into slaves. The Republic took a blind eye to slavery outside the core worlds whereas the Empire used "non-sentient" species as slave labor somewhat openly. In the lore there was entire prison planets run by both the Republic and the Jedi before Palpatine's coup. Obviously the CIS was also just ruled by space bourgs but so was the Republic. The Clone Wars was just a big distraction to weaken the galaxy and used as a test to see what type of military the Empire should use. The destruction of the Jedi order as an institution was honestly a good thing in the long-run. The Empire is seen as organized and meritocratic because it is, the reason this is still evil is because they fucking do so with literal backstabbing and strict survival of the fittest (socially and physically) (thus we still have people like Thrawn in positions of power in spite of human-supremacy). In short it is the establishment and a organized system that reduces all crime, thus the in-universe status quo will be that the Empire is "good". <br/><br/>Also if the Empire was truly ML socialist than it wouldn't have built the death-star (for canon reasons, EU is more reasonable in the Death Star's use). <br/>Central Planner : "A Death-star the size of a moon ?"<br/>Design Buro: "Yes, it vaporises planets."<br/>Central Planner: "The people can get a million regular Star Destroyers for that …"<br/>Design Buro: "But …"<br/>Central Planner "Project scrapped !"<br/><br/><a href="
https://www.deviantart.com/rvbomally/journal/The-Empire-Did-Nothing-Wrong-714997423" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.deviantart.com/rvbomally/journal/The-Empire-Did-Nothing-Wrong-714997423</a><br/><br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_DroaGggbc" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_DroaGggbc</a> <br/><br/>Inb4 "Liberal external rebellion implies Empire would last and not collapse like all fascism"<br/><span class="quote">>implying that most people think this hard about it or know the economic hypertrophy of fascist economics</span><br/>&ltimplying that fascism will collapse when its constantly expanding unhindered<br/>The Space part of the name is important. Meteor mining alone would bring in riches that negate typical dialectics of a single small system of planets. <br/>Also by the fact that it is a GALACTIC Empire, means that nationalism (a prime part of fascism) is denied. <br/>Nationalism in the star wars universe is generally believed to be an antiquated and socially unacceptable thing to have, only backwater planets tend to have it as per the EU. There is a scene from the original Star Wars with nationalist ideals…. it was cut for good reason: <a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMu0CAWOxHQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMu0CAWOxHQ</a>George Lucas is a radical and Star Wars was supposed to be about a revolutionary anti-imperialist struggle against a totalitarian empire. <br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv9Jq_mCJEo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv9Jq_mCJEo</a> <br/>He compares the Rebels with the Vietnamese and the Empire with the USA as well <br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxl3IoHKQ8c" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxl3IoHKQ8c</a><br/>Lucas stated that President Nixon was among his inspriations for the Emperor… though Reagan seems quite a similar character himself<br/><a href="
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpatine#Creation" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpatine#Creation</a><br/><br/>What’s ironic is how the sequels are the exact opposite: defeating the little guy and revealing some grand (Russia-like) conspiracy behind the (Incel-like) rebels. The First Order secessionists are describe to be similar to southern secessionists from US, however unlike the South, they are the aggressors. Having said that, the story was supposed to be a mirror-homage-tribute-ripoff of the original trilogy and not anything deep at all. It's all just lazy storytelling based off better works; the Original Trilogy and Japanese Samurai films that partly inspired the OT<br/><br/>Lucas' prequels are about how decadent liberal democracy degenerates into fascism and actually does have parallels with the American South in the CIS<br/><span class="quote">>Remember the Republic we said we wanted to restore? </span><br/>&ltWell what if it was already a corrupt, shitty, imperialist entity in its own right and becoming the Empire or collapsing was basically inevitable? <br/>&ltWhat if it started the war against the CIS to bring the seceded confederacy back under control <br/><span class="quote">>You see the great war Obi-Wan fought in? </span><br/>&ltWell it actually was just for fun and profit of bankers and bureaucrats <br/><span class="quote">>You see Luke’s father? </span><br/>&ltWell he wasn't a real good guy and was initiated fucked up because the Republic does nothing about illegal slave trading and the Jedi did not address his issues<br/>&ltHis best moments were fighting the war which itself pushed him more into the dark-side<br/>The prequels were redpilled as fuck.<br/><br/>However Star Wars is not anti-authoritarian. It's just that even americans like stories about rebels fighting an evil empire. That is why in wrestling there have been many rich heels (bad guys) including the boss of the company. There have been many rich comic book villains to. Oddly enough Sup's is working man and Lex Luthor is trillionare. Sure Bruce Wayne is as rich, but so is Penguin or Black Mask. Star Wars is in some ways a representative of World War II as perceived by Americans in culture at the time of its creation (as opposed to today). For many it is just the scrappy young freedom loving Jeffersonians fighting the evil empire, with their basic interpretation of fascism stripped of meaning and boiled down to "when everyone looks scary and does scary marches and is bad" (with the added emphasis of being human supremacist in recent films apparently). I'm having flashbacks to the moment right after The Last Jedi's theatrical release, it was as if every "leftist" on twitter—mostly anarchists, were arguing about whether or not Star Wars was an anti-fascist fable. The discourse was basically libertarian manchildren fellating each other until New Years' over how cool nerds they are, with a few unsubtle jabs at "tankies" for good measure. There's something to be said about the radicalization of fan communities in general (such as the recent agitprop campaigns by kpop stans on racist hashtags, or on the opposite end of the spectrum with cases of literal nazi furries a couple years ago), but it's difficult to connect all of them with organizations, both new and old, who're dedicated to the construction of mutual aid, dual power, new power, etc. IIRC they were drawing parallels between the Rebel Alliance's fight against Galactic Empire with their own fight against the United States. This obviously calls for a level of militarization that they, as anarchists, cannot provide; and so people called them out on it. The need for X-Wings is tantamount to the need for tanks… i.e. tankies.
Star Wars Active Politics comp:<br/>I've watched all of Star Wars and just finished re-watching Rebels and I got to say this stuff is amazing propaganda. The main characters are essentially terrorists, running around blowing up empire assets in hit&run guerrilla warfare like the Vietcong. Clone wars was surprisingly very political. There are at least 65,000 star wars fans in the USA dedicated enough to show up to a 2019 convention. Why don't we take a page from that Ukrainian soccer fan club turned military wing and mobilize 'The Rebels'? We can probably even get John Boyega to join the ranks given his recent activism. Maybe we should use a lot of laser pointers too. Maybe it would just be helpful to use Star Wars to initiate people on theory by appealing through familiar media. As mentioned in <a onclick="highlightReply('6963', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#6963">>>6963</a> Lucas is fairly anti-imperialist in his ideals and the rebels are modeled after revolutionaries and resistance like the Vietnamese. <br/> <br/>It might be easier to unite a preexisting fanbase under leftism than create a new group and there are probably some other fanbases we can hijack too. A lot of Star Wars fans recognize the similarities to the USA from the Republic/Empire and the idea of heroic revolution is appealing to many. Star Wars Fans are certainly an untapped demographic in regards to being turned to socialism, especially with your example from Rebels. Moreover a huge number of fans have become disillusioned and angry with Disney and becoming more and more aware of its corporate faggotry, which potentially pushes them into our arms at least on the level of "down with the super-rich" <br/><br/>However even if media has revolutionary elements, you have to have the political understanding to get the message being sent by the films to appreciate the film as such. You can't really convert people to radical action with film, you can only really draw out existing tendencies in people or reinforce dominant ones. Hence, why many nations have focused on film as a weapon of information warfare.<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>Inb4 the Rebels weren't socialist!</span><br/>This is the leftist equivalent of evangelicals, where autistic weirdos rant unironically about how a campy space fantasy adventure with anti-imperialist themes is actually pro-monarchism and fascist because Comrade Skywalker doesn’t bludgeon in Obi-Wan’s head while quoting Mao. They’re the Rebel Alliance, not the Space Bolsheviks. What does alliance imply to you? Do you know what the word means? The Rebellion is made up of different rebel groups with different ideologies working together for a common goal of defeating the Empire. Just like a real revolution. The Bolsheviks were not alone in fighting the White Guard during the Civil War/Revolution/Intervention period.
Reposting my rant about people who claim "Star Wars is fascist" and other nuclear takes by brainlets who jump on bandwagon hate-trains on content they don't even know. <br/><br/>This screeching about Star Wars being fascist or not is one of the reasons I rarely listen to Western communist critiques of a film; because 90% of the time they find fascism in everything because "ideology has to be pro-communist or else its crap". This is a rubbish concept that ruins story-telling and makes it impossible to create something within such restraints. You cannot make a film like Ivanhoe and then insert communist ideology into it, that not only goes against historical dialectics but also is just shitty projection of ideology into a story where ideology is not the main point at all. You want a movie focused on communist ideal and ideology then you have to write a story based around that, but that is a very narrow genre and rarely done well due to how easy it is to make hamfisted and preachy. A good example of such a film is the simply named The Communist, which details the life of a worker who, after fighting for the Revolution is striving to better the newly formed USSR and doing his best to motivate and educate the masses and parry any anti-communism, not with angry screeching but with steady argument and human appeal, who shows his determination in his labour. <a href="
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82_(%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82_(%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC)</a> <br/>This can be translated into a film in a sci-fi or fantasy genre, HOWEVER it has to be done right and is not essential for a good story. Star Wars follows a traditional story type, but is still a good story.<br/><br/>FFS The USSR had commissions and 100s of vetted viewings of each film prior to release to ensure it upheld both quality and ideology, yet not every fucking film and book was 100% pro-communist. If all that matters to you is ideology then you're just using another kind of identity politics and you shouldn't be watching movies or reading books, because you'll never gain satisfaction or be able to see the humanity in it. Stalin liked books and plays by Bulgakov and Sholohov such as A Dog's Heart and Quiet Flows the Don, defending them because he considered it important to remember that there are humans on either side of a conflict and that both sides have their heroes and humanity. <br/><br/>The story of Anakin is not heroic or that of a revolutionary, but of person put on a pedestal by his powers and a prophecy, and who fails to be the hero expected because he cannot throw away his humanity in regards to the people he loves (while still indirectly fulfilling said prophecy). His downfall to the darkside mirrors the downfall of the liberal democratic Republic into the fascist Empire under the manipulations of Palpatine. And in the OT, Luke, an ordinary orphan with a small gift and a good heart rises to the challenge of being the hero, rescues the princess and saves the day… but his story does not end there and as is in reality, the fight must go on and he inevitably goes through failures, overconfidence and has to be taught mentally and physiologically to meet the challenges and finally reach a more conscious level of heroic action, rather than just "blow up the evil" he struggles and over-comes it and manages to get his enemy and father to redeem himself and help him, concluding that storyline. <br/><br/>Are there non-socialist parts of this? OF COURSE, its a Space Fantasy with rogues and pirates and Evil Wizard Lords, Good Magicians, Dwarves, beast-people and monsters who simply have technology and are more advanced and go through many cycles of rise and falls (Old Republic, Mandalorian Wars, Sith-Jedi conflicts, etc.) The point is not "le revolutionary hero" but the idea of good fighting evil, of people leading others for good or bad causes, of human struggles and their importance even when put in scale with the size of the galaxy.<br/><br/>TL;DR: movie makers don't care about ideology unless its important to the story or is important to money, and with Lucas, both were secondary concerns and thus he wrote the story he wanted. Depiction of fascism and generalized rebellion is not necessarily liberal or fascist propaganda, but idealism… the bread and butter of fantasy fiction. The Rebels are outright stated by Lucas to be inspired by the Vietnamese and the Empire by the Nazis, the Romans and the USA.
<a onclick="highlightReply('6962', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#6962">>>6962</a><br/><span class="quote">>The Empire is seen as organized and meritocratic because it is, the reason this is still evil is because they fucking do so with literal backstabbing and strict survival of the fittest (socially and physically) </span><br/>The Empire administration is rather dysfunctional, ridden with rivalities and corruption and only kept working because of the personal loyality of the Armed Forces and the Core Worlds monopolist cartels integrated into the military-industrial complex like Kuat Drive Yards or Sienar Fleet Systems to Palpatine. Once he died the whole thing collapsed practically overnight, both in the Disney and the old canon.<br/><span class="quote">>Nationalism in the star wars universe</span><br/>The Galactic Empire was imperialistically nationalist. It was basically the political superstructure to sustain the Core Worlds' exploitation and colonization of the periphery through military means, after the Outer Rim tried and failed to become its own sovereign polity and secede from the Republic in the Clone Wars. Nationalistic human supremacist core world chauvinism was the ideological superstructure of it. The Empire even have a political mass movement, COMPNOR (Commitee for the Preservation of the New Order) and a paramilitary youth wing SA-Group (Sub-Adult Group), to manufacture and popularize the ideology.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('6963', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#6963">>>6963</a><br/>The official name of the Rebellion is "Alliance for the Restoration of the Republic", their goal is the restoration of democracy and the end of autocratic government. The Rebellion itself is a popular front formed mostly on democratic-minded senators from the Core Worlds and anti-imperialist or anti-human supremacy resistance movements from the galactic perifery. Dimitrov's works on popular fronts are similar. <br/><span class="quote">>The leader</span><br/>You can see the Chief of State of the Rebel Alliance in Return of the Jedi, is the red-headed woman who explains the battleplan for the assault on Death Star II. She's Mon Mothma, the Senator of the planet Chandrila. But obviously the movies don't go deep into the internal politics of the Alliance. If you get into the novels and comics, the Rebellion works more or less in a fashion similar to democratic centralism, with local cells organized under the leadership of a central executive.
Count Dooku is an under-rated anti-hero. <br/>I always saw Dooku as being 'good' at heart. He wanted to get rid of a corrupted republic, he sided with the greatest power to do so (Sidious), he made himself more powerful yet didn't kill Obi-Wan or Yoda or anakin. I feel that Dooku was more of a dark-jedi than a Sith. He also didn't lie where every other Sith would lie. He flat-out told Obiwan how the clones had come, how the Sith controlled the senate and what was going on Obi-wan just thought him a liar. In truth, had Obi-wan sided then with Dooku, I feel Palpatine would have been overthrown. Dooku would have risen in power, changed the republic, violently got rid of corruption and fixed the problems in it and the Jedi order. He was never true evil. Just a necessary evil. <br/>He was essentially the Itachi of the series who never had the "dramatic reveal" moment, the former did. <br/>Theory: <a href="
http://archive.vn/KZqtu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
http://archive.vn/KZqtu</a><br/>Theory examples: <a href="
http://archive.is/nuW1I" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
http://archive.is/nuW1I</a><br/><br/>Scene where he talks with Obi-wan<br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaXHDpCe-KI&t=1m37s" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaXHDpCe-KI&t=1m37s</a> <br/>What if Obi-Wan had switched <br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2DQpnhxGoY" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2DQpnhxGoY</a><br/><span class="quote"><br/>>Inb4 he was just trying to divide the Jedi and the Republic</span><br/>There was nothing to divide, the Jedi were secretive and arrogant, and their ideals clashed with the Republics, leading to a dichotomy (as demonstrated by Jedi 'peacekeepers' becoming Generals). It can also be interpreted as separation of state and religion.
Repost of responses (my own and others) to the pretentiousness in pics related<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>story about magickel lazor wizards</span><br/><span class="quote">>b-b-b-but there's sound in vacuum!</span><br/>This exact kind of overthinking irrelevant details is what lead to the retardation that typified the EU's infamous cringeyness as I complained about in <a onclick="highlightReply('3754', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#3754">>>3754</a> with the nonsensical "human actors without makeup are used a lot for pragmatic IRL reasons = let's ignore the setting's intended worldbuilding to make a big deal out of this".<br/><br/>It is just self-fellating bullshit. They're patting each other on the back for something that is absolutely inane.<br/><span class="quote">>muh sounds in space</span><br/>Yes, everyone fucking knows this. Even if they didn't why would it matter? Its a film about a distant space war, not a NASA training documentary. 99% of people on earth will never come close to space travel in the next 100 years, so why would such a little detail matter. Hell they portray Lucas as some sort of bad person for not giving them the "no sound" when his explanation essentially states that it is out of his hands. Lucas explained this well when he was talking about Soviet cinema being more free. <br/>And hell you can even make an excuse, the Death-stars had internal gravity and atmosphere and were the size of moons. Their detonation would likely cause a massive spread of their materials in a wide explosion that would send particles everywhere and into the surrounding spaceships, where they would impact them and transfer what can be interpreted as sound.<br/><br/>Star Wars isn’t about the gadgets, it’s about an fantastical story set on a background of politics, as demonstrated in the numerous effort-posts in this thread dissecting the allegories to real life. <br/>To summarize, the prequels were about a civil war. the OT was about imperialism. the sequels are just retarded disneyshit that should be ignored<br/><br/>Licensed SF was a cancer that devastated printed* genre fiction even if IMHO the rise of non-licensed sequel-heavy Pern/Shannara/Gor/Belgariad/etc. fantasy garbage had a far worse effect on genre fiction in the '80s & '90s. But that still doesn't excuse the autism of SW EU authors desperately trying to fit the round peg of hard SF into the square hole of SW's soft not-even-scifi space fantasy, producing something with the strengths of neither and the weaknesses of both. <br/><br/>*Every other medium; film, TV, radio, comics, vidya, etc., has only sporadically and occasionally produced or adapted anything vaguely conforming to even the loosest definition of the softest SF. This is something that goes well beyond '80s SFX-heavy blockbusters like Star Wars, clear back through cheezy drive-in B movies raping SF in the 1950s parallel to the Golden Age of SF, through the serials of the 1930s raping pulp novels, to theatrical stageplays in the 1800s raping penny dreadfuls.<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>Inb4 aimed at marketing toys.</span><br/>The films came way before the toy marketing. Remember that the Ewoks were from the 3rd film.
<a onclick="highlightReply('8699', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#8699">>>8699</a><br/>Leaving aside everything that still stands out as inherently "Star Wars" about it (Joseph Campbell's monomyth in its overarching story, dual cinematographic influences of pre-WWII pulp-inspired American serials and Japanese Jidaigeki, impressive tie-in merchandising and cultivated fandom), Star Wars was a uniquely sophisticated technical feat.<br/><br/>Before Star Wars, SF onscreen was either somewhat silly looking (Planet of the Apes, Barbarella, Logan's Run), or was careful to minimize high-concept elements like aliens or a futuristic setting that would require sophisticated FX work (Rollerball, Westworld, Fahrenheit 451, Lucas' own THX-1138), in spite of which the end results still looked a bit subpar. Probably the strongest FX production before Star Wars was 2001: A Space Odyssey.<br/><br/>Star Wars, more specifically Lucas' pioneering work in creating ILM & Skywalker Sound, blew the ceiling off expectations. Not only did Star Wars have aliens and a completely high-concept setting, it had A LOT of them in a full "space opera" setting, filling virtually every minute of running time.<br/><br/>Lucas' peers were caught totally offguard, with rival productions either failing to meet its level of visual polish (Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, The Black Hole), or opting for a much less ambitious concept (Alien, Star Trek TMP, Superman, Close Encounters).<br/><br/>It wasn't until the '80s that others caught up with new films like Blade Runner, Tron, Last Starfighter, and Dune, as well as series upping their ante, like Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan, Superman II, and Aliens. Many of them with direct help from ILM, or even part of the same clique as Lucas (Spielberg, Zemeckis, etc.).<br/><br/>That uncompromising ambition and competence right there is a huge part, both of why Star Wars made such a massive impression at the time, and why it continues to hold up so well.
<a onclick="highlightReply('8702', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#8702">>>8702</a><br/><span class="quote">>silly looking</span><br/>&ltPlanet of the Apes<br/>I have to disagree there, the effects in Planet of the Apes were rather interesting to say the least and the apes looked like apes, regardless of humanoid features. Otherwise I agree. <br/>It would be good to mention Stan Winston's practical effects school as well. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('8699', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#8699">>>8699</a><br/>I recently rewatched the original trilogy myself and in many ways it has things that many people today may not relate to, simply because people today are too used to the content of things like Avengers, where 2 hours is barely enough to pack in every little detail with all the CGI and references and other shit. <br/>In both the OT and the Prequels, Star Wars has many slower moments and the story it tells has varied pacing, its not just 3 part story, as there are numerous rises and falls within each film. It was a groundbreaking film and series in its time, and remains so, however as capitalism began to corrupt the production of film, so have the values and ideas been lost to most new people. Uncle Joe did 2 videos discussing this trend, where the ideas, themes and methods of classic films of the 20th century only continue to remain popular through older generations and capitalist hype, because current media and many of the current generation are rather shallow and do not understand the details and themes. Its why Force Awakens is worse than the original Star Wars, it was a superficial imitation that lacked the original's core. <br/>I would explain this better, however English has some rather annoying limitations to it compared to Russian, that make it hard to get the point across.<br/><br/>TL;DR: Star Wars is quaint by today's standards, but only because today's standards have become shallow due to how capitalism bleaches culture over time.
I rather enjoyed Weird Al Yanakovic's parody of the Phantom Menace. And apparently most of the song was written before the release, based on leaks and trailer clips. George Lucas enjoyed it as well. <br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEcjgJSqSRU" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEcjgJSqSRU</a> <br/><br/>The Saga Begins<br/>A long long time ago<br/>In a galaxy far away<br/>Naboo was under an attack<br/>And I thought me and Qui-Gon Jinn<br/>Could talk the Federation into<br/>Maybe cutting them a little slack<br/>But their response, it didn't thrill us<br/>They locked the doors and tried to kill us<br/>We escaped from that gas<br/>Then met Jar Jar and Boss Nass<br/>We took a bongo from the scene<br/>And we went to Theed to see the queen<br/>We all wound up on Tatooine<br/>That's where we found this boy…<br/><br/>Oh my my, this here Anakin guy<br/>May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry<br/>And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye<br/>Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"<br/>"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"<br/><br/>Did you know this junkyard slave<br/>Isn't even old enough to shave<br/>But he can use the Force they say<br/>Ahh, do you see him hitting on the queen<br/>Though he's just nine and she's fourteen<br/>Yeah, he's probably gonna marry her someday<br/>Well, I know he built C-3PO<br/>And I've heard how fast his pod can go<br/>And we were broke, it's true<br/>So we made a wager or two<br/>He was a prepubescent flyin' ace<br/>And the minute Jabba started off that race<br/>Well, I know who would win first place<br/>Oh yes, it was our boy<br/><br/>We started singin'… My my, this here Anakin guy<br/>May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry<br/>And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye<br/>Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"<br/>"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"<br/><br/>Now we finally got to Coruscant<br/>The Jedi Council we knew would want<br/>To see how good the boy could be<br/>So we took him there and we told the tale<br/>How his midi-chlorians were off the scale<br/>And he might fulfill that prophecy<br/>Oh, the Council was impressed, of course<br/>Could he bring balance to the Force?<br/>They interviewed the kid<br/>Oh, training they forbid<br/>Because Yoda sensed in him much fear<br/>And Qui-Gon said, "Now listen here<br/>Just stick it in your pointy ear<br/>I still will teach this boy"<br/><br/>He was singin'… My my, this here Anakin guy<br/>May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry<br/>And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye<br/>Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"<br/>"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"<br/><br/>We caught a ride back to Naboo<br/>'Cause Queen Amidala wanted to<br/>I frankly would've liked to stay<br/>We all fought in that epic war<br/>And it wasn't long at all before<br/>Little Hotshot flew his plane and saved the day<br/>And in the end some Gungans died<br/>Some ships blew up and some pilots fried<br/>A lot of folks were croakin'<br/>The battle droids were broken<br/>And the Jedi I admire most<br/>Met up with Darth Maul and now he's toast<br/>Well, I'm still here and he's a ghost<br/>I guess I'll train this boy<br/><br/>And I was singin'… My my, this here Anakin guy<br/>May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry<br/>And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye<br/>Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"<br/>"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"<br/>We were singin'… My my, this here Anakin guy<br/>May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry<br/>And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye<br/>Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" <br/><br/><a href="
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saga_Begins" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saga_Begins</a><a onclick="highlightReply('9988', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#9988">>>9988</a><br/>The Russian/Soviet videos get a lot of good puns, memes and humor BTW <br/><span class="quote">>Tsar wars- The Phantom Marxist</span><br/><span class="quote">>Tsar wars- Attack of the Nazis</span><br/><span class="quote">>Tsar Wars- Revenge of the Capitalist </span><br/><span class="quote">>Tsar wars- A new revolution </span><br/><span class="quote">>Tsar wars- the bourgeoisie strikes back</span><br/><span class="quote">>Tsar Wars- Return of the Comrade</span><br/><span class="quote">>Tsar wars- Lenin awakens </span><br/><span class="quote">>Tsar wars- the last comrade </span><br/><span class="quote">>Tsar wars- the rise of Stalin</span><br/>or<br/><span class="quote">>Cold Wars: The Red Menace</span><br/><span class="quote">>Cold Wars: Attack of the Winter</span><br/><span class="quote">>Cold wars: Revenge of the Soviets</span><br/><span class="quote">>Cold Wars: A New Comrade</span><br/><span class="quote">>Cold Wars: The Reich Strikes Back</span><br/><span class="quote">>Cold War: Return of the Union</span><br/><br/>And one of the best <br/><span class="quote">>Оби-ван: Изуродованная экономика! Бесполезный поиск выкупа! Чем ваше правительство помогло до сих пор? Что вы вернули? Ваше место финансового хранителя Дуку!</span><br/>&ltГенерал Гривус: Я не просто финансист. Я не участвую в этой холодной войне ни за политику Дуку, ни за политику Путина! Я верховный главнокомандующий самой Могущественной Советской Армии, которую когда-либо видела Россия !!!<br/><span class="quote">>Оби-ван: Армия без налоговых планов, без свободных предприимчивых консорциумов! Просто коммунизм !! Что вы смотрите, чтобы увидеть ?!</span><br/>&ltГенерал Гривус: Будущее, будущее без капиталистов !!!<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>Obi-wan: A mutilated economy! A Futile quest for ransoms! What did your Government helped so far? What did you regain? Your place as Dooku's Finance Keeper!</span><br/>&ltGeneral Grievous: I am no mere finance keeper. I am not in this cold war for Dooku's nor Putin's politics! I am the supreme commander of the most Powerful Soviet Army of whole Russia has ever seen!!!<br/><span class="quote">>Obi-wan: An Army with no taxation plans, with no free-enterprising consortiums! Just communism!! What do you look to see?!</span><br/>&ltGeneral Grievous: A Future, a future where there are no Capitalists!!!<br/><span class="quote"><br/><br/>>Вы слыхали сказ про Дарта Сталина мудрого? Говорят, в своем могуществе он так преисполнился, что с помощью силы одной только партии и народной веры, мог выполнять пятилетки за 3 года.</span><br/>&ltА этому может кто-то научить?<br/><span class="quote">>Только не капиталист…</span><br/>&ltКак же Сталин пал?<br/><span class="quote">>Он научил Хрущева всему, что знал сам, и тот убил его, пока Учитель спал…</span><br/><span class="quote"><br/>>Have you heard the tale about Darth Stalin the wise? They say that his power he was so great, that with the help of the strength of one party and the people's faith, he could fulfill five-year plans in 3 years.</span><br/>&ltCan someone teach this?<br/><span class="quote">>Not a capitalist …</span><br/>&ltHow did Stalin fall?<br/><span class="quote">>He taught Khruschev everything known to himself, and he killed him while the Teacher slept</span><br/><br/><em>I don’t like snow. It’s cold and wet, and it gets everywhere</em> - German Soldiers at the Battle for Moscow
<a onclick="highlightReply('9969', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#9969">>>9969</a><br/><span class="quote">>Too bad its basically a song of a fascist death squad when you look up what the lyrics mean</span><br/>Not actually. In legends anyways, Coruscant was the home of not only what we understand as humans in the modern star wars universe, but also a species known as the Taung, the "original" Mandalorian species. The Taung were heavily ostracized by the humans and regularly exterminated, until the point where all the Clans of the Taung united to try and save themselves in a decisive blow in defeating the humans. One day in Coruscant, a fuckmassive volcano (basically the equivalent of if Yellowstone) erupted and coated the whole planet in ash, and the Taung used the opportunity to wage a vicious "shadow war" on the humans to try and avoid extermination, as they were severalfold outnumbered by humanity at this point. Vode An is commemerating this war, the brave sacrifice of many Taung, and the ferocity they fought with for self-preservation. They eventually lost the war, but they fought hard enough that they managed to flee the planet instead of getting genocided outright, and they would hop from planet to planet until they eventually settled on what would become Mandalore. Their time on Coruscant shaped them to be a martial society, and they often waged war against the many nascent powers around them, usually freeing the various species enslaved by their enemies and adding them to their ranks - the Taung society had an aversion to slavery and the destruction of species because of their experiences on Coruscant. Over time the Taung died out, but the various species that they liberated commemorated their memory by becoming what we understand now as the Mandalorians - and Vode An (along with other songs of its sort) are how the Mandalorians preserve their history. Its actually maybe one of the oldest in-universe historical accounts in all of Star Wars that survives into the EU era, and into the canon Sequel trilogy.
Reposting this idea: Imagine Davy Jones being a Quarren Sith Lord piloting a feared ship across the galaxy, and the Kraken being a Summa-verminoth under his control, taking down star destroyers and other spaceships across the galaxy. Instead of souls, this Sith lord could instead drain the Force of the ones inside the ships to keep himself alive. <br/><br/>Quarren Rebel, like early Mon Cala rebellion before the alliance was a thing. Gets sent on a mission to try and attract enemy attention away for a different raid. Rescue never comes and he feels betrayed/abandoned but help never comes because the other mission failed and they are all dead, he escapes but never finds out what happened. Discovers his force sensitivity and falls to the dark side in his anger, becomes space pirate Sith Lord after discovering Holocron that teaches him how to control an ancient beast in an asteroid field, Nebula, lost system etc.<br/><br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP6wHg9-A2Y" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP6wHg9-A2Y</a><br/><br/>A more expansive version:<br/><br/>The legend of the Flying Dutchman was created, due to the dutch Merchant Fleet possessing the fastest ships at the time, resulting in dutch trading vessels being encountered all over the seas, so the supersticious seamen called it devilscraft.<br/>Knowing the background of the Flying Dutchman, I'd say, go a similar way and call it after a Race that is known for trading. Therefore, since I couldn't find much else, for the time being, I'll call it the Neimodian.<br/>As for it's looks, has anyone seen the animated movie Space Pirate Captain Harlock, from, I think, 2013? If I recall correctly, his ship, the Arcadia, was able to repair itself and often times was shrouded in a black, smoke-like cloud. Something like that. And knowing what is possible in the Star Wars universe, this could be plausible.<br/><br/>So, Darth Altus originally belonged to the old Sith Empire, maybe era of the Old Republic.<br/>At some point, he disappeared from the stage, believed to have died. But in reality, he travelled to the outer regions, and now he has returned, more powerful than ever before!<br/><br/>There, deep in the unknown space of the outer regions, he meditated. He listened. And he learned. He aquired some skill in the powers used by Darth Nihilus, taking his own spin at it, and mastered it. Using forbidden Sith Alchemy and his Powers of the Force, he became something different. The ship he was on changed. Caused by the dark rituals he performed, the ship transformed, together with him. His ship, the Neimodian, became almost impossible to destroy, repairing every damage it took by itself, without the need of fuel of any known kind, and binding the Sith Lord to itself for eternity.<br/><br/>Darth Altus, in his Quest for power and knowledge, became a Force Vampire, feeding on the Force of the living beings around him, and even mastered the ability to, if he wished so, rip the Force out of a living being, permanently destroying it, preventing it from becoming a Force Ghost, but also to sustain a Form of live over years, keeping some of the crew of the Neimodian alive to manouver the ship and to feed upon.<br/>There he also learned to control a Summa-Verminoth, which now obeys his every command.<br/><br/>After years in his self-exile, he learned by coincidence of the Fall of the Sith Empire, and for several more years, that was his last contact to the known Galaxy. Now he has returned to haunt the known Galaxy.<br/><br/>Being not entirely material anymore, the Neimodian is almost impossible to detect by normal means. And when it appears out of dark space, cloaked in what appears to be a cloud of black smoke and lightning, it's almost to late to run. Darth Altus himself can't leave his ship for too long, without risking to become weak and possibly die, due to being bound to his ship. But he still has his crew of almost undead, being loyal to noone but him, attacking and capturing other ships, leaving no survivors behind. It's better to die in the attack, than to get captured by the crew of that black ship. Those that survive the attack, are brought on the Neimodian. There, they either end as meal for the Sith Lord, who rips their knowledge and force from their bodies, killing them, or become part of the crew, getting fed upon, over time turning them into his loyal thralls. And those that manage to run, he sends his pet after.
<a onclick="highlightReply('11610', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#11610">>>11610</a><br/>S tier: - Original Trilogy (A 3 part concise story that told a fantasy story but in Space and with new twists)<br/><br/>A tier: - Prequels (they were more nuanced than the OT and had good worldbuilding, but have some objective flaws)<br/>- Clone Wars 2008 (Season 1-6 and the original unfinished 7th and 8th seasons were awesome, and filled in the gap of the majority of what the Prequel films missed) <br/>- The Mandalorian (awesome downsizing that reflects the OT and has a fun combination of minor political nuance on a small scale as well as some good feels) <br/><br/>B Tier: - Clone Wars 2003 (fun and had worldbuilding, but I'm not a fan of the artstyle and format and has some issues)<br/>- 2008 Clone Wars animated movie (like the 2008 series but a bit too childish)<br/>- Star Wars Rebels (fun but the initial seasons and art-style was meh)<br/><br/>C Tier: - Force Awakens (a rehash of the Original film but with less effort and a lot of stupid crap)<br/>- Solo movie (good idea executed horribly and with a lot of retcons and dumbshit. )<br/>- Rogue One: has some good scenes and an interesting concept that got hobbled by Executive meddling and retcons)<br/>- Star Wars Droids and Ewoks (unremarkable but not horrendous attempts at animated series that like most 80s cartoons were made for selling toys)<br/><br/>Shit Tier: - Star Wars Resistance and Forces of Destiny (lazy shitty writing, liberal idpol and no nuance, fantasy or style)<br/>- Last Jedi (le subverting expectations bullshit, excessive mary sue shit, and liberal idpol) <br/>- Rise of Skywalker (horrible retcons, liberal idpol, mockery of the original trilogy's story and absolute mess over-all, after the original idea was scrapped) <br/>- Holiday Special and Ewok movies (Almost total trash made as a big advertisement. Only the animated segment is worth watching)
I found these fantastic star wars meme music on youtube, very kino<br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3IJjJCXWNU" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3IJjJCXWNU</a><br/><br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('11610', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#11610">>>11610</a><br/>For me my list is basically this guy's <a onclick="highlightReply('11612', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#11612">>>11612</a>
these little animations are better than they have any right to be<br/><br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJEUAe-dcGo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJEUAe-dcGo</a>O<br/>M<br/>G<br/>GUYS DID ANYONE ELSE HERE WATCH STAR WARS: FORCES OF DESTINY THE WRITING AND ART IS SO AMAZING AND THEY’RE MAKING THE CHUDS SOOOOOOO MAD, IT’S SO GREAT THAT THERE’S FINALLY A SCI-FI FANTASY SHOW FOR WOMEN, GAYS, TRANS, AND BIPOC I HAVEN’T BEEN THIS HAPPY SINCE THE STEVEN UNIVERSE MOVIE!!!!!111111<br/><a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yRP1ao1DUE" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yRP1ao1DUE</a>Speaking of Mandos, Twitter libs had a chimp-out over Bo-Katan prompting Shadiversity to respond about feminine armor again. <a onclick="highlightReply('12458', event);" href="/hobby/res/3859.html#12458">>>12458</a><br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('13147', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#13147">>>13147</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('13149', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#13149">>>13149</a><br/>Weren't the Darktroopers revealed in Rogue One? <br/>Also good for Booba, I always hated the silly concept of him not being a Mandolorian, it was one of the dumber parts of the EU. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('12980', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#12980">>>12980</a><br/>Didn't even hear about this one, is it any good? Post it on >>>/games/3265 <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('12953', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#12953">>>12953</a><br/>Definitely, it would go against a lot of the original and prequel's world building and character development otherwise. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('12946', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#12946">>>12946</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('12944', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#12944">>>12944</a><br/>I don't think that's Jedi robes, Rey was wearing similar crap before she even knew about the Force or anything else. It's just good attire for the area IMO. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('12940', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#12940">>>12940</a><br/>Filoni is a fag, but Mandolorian is succeeding so far and I think you just personally dislike TCW and therefore dislike this. It's a matter of personal taste here. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('12566', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#12566">>>12566</a><br/>I wouldn't mind either, such Nick content was gold back in the day, as long as they kept out the liberal idpol, that's what makes it irritating. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('12928', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#12928">>>12928</a><br/>Same, however I think they're going for a larger over-arching story, with 'adventures' episodically, sort of like a lot of other successful TV-shows. As <a onclick="highlightReply('12939', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#12939">>>12939</a> mentioned, they're likely to explore Mandalore, pulling more of it's culture out to explore. Hopefully they won't go "hurr stoopic macho" as I fear some of the writers may attempt
<a onclick="highlightReply('13211', event);" href="/hobby/res/2737.html#13211">>>13211</a><br/>Only Mandalorians know how to forge it and are fiercely protective of ownership of beskar - especially suits of armor, which are often passed down familial lines. Whatever protection it would afford against lightsabers would only end up giving you more trouble from Mandalorians.<br/>Plus, getting some off an actual Mandalorian isn't easy, the Mandalorian armor pattern by the Old Republic was specifically designed to combat force users through speed, maneuverability, and versatility of weapons that can't be blocked by the force (flamethrowers, slugthrowers, explosives, ect). Getting a set is hard facing down just one Mandalorian - but they usually live in large clans and are defensive for each other. You wouldn't be facing down one, but dozens if not hundreds.
did anyone else have a giggle at the imperial dubstep?<br/><br/><a href="
https://youtu.be/_SN5wdSk6nk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://youtu.be/_SN5wdSk6nk</a>Star Wars: Visions is an upcoming anime adaptation and a lot of the characters and aesthetics look based and samurai champloo levels of effort. The only thing that bugged me is the girls from Studio Trigger's "The Twins" episode clip, cause it's that same annoying transparent hair over eye girl design that really doesn't mesh with the rest of the animation comparatively, this might be an unpopular opinion but this stylization, especially in Kill la Kill is just obnoxious to me, it's dialing up the Magical Girl art-style of the 90s but without the budgetary animation reasons that the 90s anime had.
https://archive.md/Idz21 Original Post
>>>/anime/10068>>974Literally all good Star Wars pisses off Star Wars fans.
I don't think there is a single fandom that doesn't understand the object of their love as much as Star Wars fans. idk why
>>980To be fair, Vader never once doubted Obi-Wan was still alive somewhere, he knew him far too well to assume he could ever get killed off by the stormtroopers or just drop dead naturally, I imagine Vader figured he would one day face Obi-Wan again but just didn’t know when
Meanwhile he would still have no reason to assume Obi-Wan went into hiding to stow away or guard anyone
>>984>Do people actually give a fuck about Obi-Wan?Yes
>didn't think anything about the prequels were interesting That's your personal taste, feel free to read the thread on people discussing the prequels to see their interest in it and in part, Obi Wan.
The 2008 Clone Wars animated series gave him much more screen time and expanded on his character and its quippy nature (pic related). That said I do not think he really needs a series that, as
>>983 mentions and I hinted at, kind of retcons the original Trilogy. But if it is as good as The Mandalorian, I'd give it a chance, since that's some damn decent cinematographic story.
>>997I thought halo ring.
I miss the sand people :(
>>1001Read the Thrawn trilogy, play some old vidya games (x-wing, kotor, jedi knight series), read the West End Games sourcebooks from D6holocron which is the source material they gave to Timothy Zahn when he wrote the Thrawn trilogy (the Imperial and Rebel ones have more lore than all of Disneywars combined)
http://d6holocron.com/downloads/wegsourcebooks.htmlThere's a bunch more video games and books and even comics and animated series like the original clone wars, but I can't really speak to those. It just comes down to what you're interested in. You can read through the wiki to find stuff too.
>>1007>those 3 moviesSo the core of the entire new canon.
Reminder that a shitton of the new expanded universe/canon is just a bunch of old EU stuff that got shoveled into some officially canon books so it could be included in there.
>>1013>culling Legend's canon by overwriting itEU is Legends you n00b.
> this kind of purge of Legends content was pretty inevitableNo, it isn't, the EU repeatedly had content ruled non-canon before Mickey the Rat got corporate fingers in the pie, not a complete purge of all content before blatantly stealing it for fanfiction-tier garbage.
>mostly because all of them were created during a time where the idea of a continuous Star Wars canon just really wasn't that much of a thing and thus often overwrote/contradicted each other to begin with.And? Every franchise that big does that and makes contradicting content AU.
>>1014>EU is Legends you n00b. Yeah, no shit. The EU overwrote itself, it literally had a linear tier of canonocity created for the sake of clarifying what overwrites what lmao.
>not a complete purge of all content before blatantly stealing it for fanfiction-tier garbage. I mean, literally every time there was a big LucasArts project it either completely disregarded or fully overwrote previous material - see especially the Mandalore arc of TCW, Asajj Ventress' story and endpoint, Maul's resurrection, all this TV and book content which completely undid all of the Clone Wars series of comics and a few novels.
The stuff surrounding TCW which survived was stuff that was about character stories of really unimportant characters (like MedStar, basically Star Wars MASH) or stuff that wasn't explicitly overwritten so people headcanon it in (like the True Mandalorians existing in the Mando Civil War) even though it is kinda forcibly inserting material which wasn't meant to be accommodated in the new canon, which already has a slew of content overwritten by the new canon so most of the story beats could not go anywhere anyways.
tl;dr, Der Maus only made official what was de-jure already going on anyways in that any new, official Star Wars content was going to overwrite or do away with anything in the same time period they were covering.
>And? Every franchise that big does that and makes contradicting content AU.It'd be more accurate to say that they did, it seems now the impulse is to either have a completely continuous canon (what Star Wars is doing) or have some kind of multiverse explanation to allow for contradictory content to exist in tandem (see superhero movies, but especially Spider Man of late). Access to media content in multiple forms is a lot more readily avaliable than it used to be, so it is far easier to find contradictory content and notice it. Back in the day the only way I'd read Star Wars novels was renting them from the library or sometimes finding used copies in a bookstore, now you have not only online stores but .pdf copies and audiobooks circulating around en masse so everyone can engage in the media easily. That increase of availability is what has been driving people generally into trying to make these kinds of continuous canons, either fanon arrangements of canon or corporate-sponsored canon.
>>1015>the Mandalore arc of TCW, Asajj Ventress' story and endpoint, Maul's resurrection, all this TV and book content which completely undid all of the Clone Wars series of comics and a few novels. That already happened during the preparation of sales to Disney, it also didn't eliminate the EU completely, just made a couple prior novels/comics retconned.
>it seems now the impulse is to either have a completely continuous canonYeah, and it's the Lucafilm equivalent of New52 in DC; dumb AF
>That increase of availability is what has been driving people generally into trying to make these kinds of continuous canons, either fanon arrangements of canon or corporate-sponsored canon.Corporate pragmatism is not a justification IMO.
>>1016>it also didn't eliminate the EU completely, just made a couple prior novels/comics retconned. Thats… the point anon. Lucas was just doing it piecemeal but would basically inevitably get most-to-all of it retconned via their emerging media projects. Disney decided to just rip the bandage off all at once, as it were.
>Yeah, and it's the Lucafilm equivalent of New52 in DC; dumb AFI dunno, I enjoy a good amount of the new content, I think the inter-connectivity leads to greater storytelling through that sense of a connected universe. A big issue of old Star Wars especially was scale - is a single ISD a major or minor force? Were stormtroopers a joke or a threat? Ect, now there is a much more consistent line on these kinds of things which makes setting up antagonists easier and thus portraying the evolution of protagonists against them easier as well. Mando going from struggling against a squad of Stormtrooper deserters to taking on an entire frigate's worth of them is a satisfying sense of progression compared to how Stormtroopers were just mincemeat to characters like Kyle Katarn. Its also generally lowered the cap of power in the universe, so characters do have a greater sense of engagement to the universe as opposed to what was basically gods on earth with late-stage force characters like old Luke or Darth Kryat who only faced adversity when they came up against other force gods (very literally in the case of Abbaloth).
tl;dr I enjoy the storytelling on average in new canon more than I do on average with Legends.
>Corporate pragmatism is not a justification IMO.I don't think it is corporate pragmatism as much as it is corporations responding to how people now enjoy their media. Various fan arrangements of canon were around way before Disney, predating even the capeshit Marvel Endgame trend of creating a unified universe.
>>1018they’re fucking(no strings attached)
what the fuck. why didn’t anakin just say he had a friends w benefits. I know he had a control issue but couldn’t the Jedi just explicitly say he can fuck the senator. no attachments and all that jazz. he could’ve set boundaries.
>>1020filoni really went ham w all this shit. altho, holy shit how old is bane now.
>>965Why does the empire look like the cast of star trek discovery?
I'd rather be a rebelchad and hang out with Wookiees and Sullustans (and a few hot Zeltrons) than be basically an American soldier in present year.
>>988Based
Czerka piggu go home
>>1022>altho, holy shit how old is bane now.unironically like… in his mid to late 70s I am pretty sure. and he isn't one of those funny aliens with a super-long lifespan either, its roughly human-equivalent.
>>1024I don't think there is meant to be any kind of inner-human racial distinctions in Star Wars, save for exceptionally divergent mutations like the Chiss.
>>1032It’s because he’s framing the choice of Jedi and emotional attachment as two separate things. Especially when in ROTJ he seemed to reject killing his father and following the Jedi Way or “giving into attachments”(wanting control and power over attachments) and falling to the dark side and instead taking a third path of allowing attachments and becoming a Jedi “like his father”. The Like his father is important especially as both Ben and Yoda consider Anakin to not be a Jedi. I’m disappointed in Luke as a character. Not mad at him for not being self aware, just saddened he’s making a mistake. I guess it does make sense because Yoda himself framed them as oppositional values still, and Yoda is the only mentor figure he’s got besides Ben Kenobi, so I presume Luke must be struggling with that question. I just wished they showed him struggling with that question more. How do you teach the Jedi Way but have triumphed in a way against the Sith in a non-Jedi way(non Yoda way) while still being affirmed as a Jedi by the Emperor. If I were Luke, being validated as a Jedi yet still staying true to your values would not be a contradiction yet and maybe he hasn’t realized yet. But it seems Luke is going with the flow and taking the easiest path by not letting them synthesize. In the showdown of the emperor Luke was in his most vulnerable, and I’m not saying that emotional vulnerability would stay with him consistently for the rest of his life as some people love to think(the TLJ character assassination crowd) and also anecdotal evidence from myself, in which I a victim of abuse did not realize I inherited abusive behaviors and values. I am not disappointed in the the writing because technically it’s consistent with the timeline leading to the sequels, nor the writers since I guess it means they respect the canon. I sort of see this decision reflecting in me as I made this sort of dual decision in the past and unintentionally, I think it reveals Luke’s mindset despite the intention of choice,
assuming Luke is going to stop training Grogu if he picks the attachment “route”. Luke is repeating his old master’s mistakes of having the choices in front of him be presented as opposition.
Of course all of this is a big assumption based on projecting the scene from ESB and ROTJ onto this one. I admit, I could be wrong, but I’d say it’s interesting how peeps on Twitter are interpreting it. I see it personally as Luke having not fully grown and learned from the Emperor encounter and him unconsciously separating the old rigid Jedi way and the healthy emotional attachment path he chose in ROTJ, and thus cementing him on a path to depression Luke from TLJ. Which I don’t mind, as I myself really don’t believe you can cement your values from one vulnerable moment.
>>1034Yoda in ROTJ never said Luke had to destroy Vader, only that he had to face Vaded/his father. Luke's struggle with his father showed his maturity in understanding that Vader or even the Emperor could not be defeated by fighting them and destroying them that way. When Mace Windu made the hasty decision of executing the Emperor without due process, his haste caused Anakin to panic and attack him. Anyways the point is Luke embraced everything the Jedi are supposed to be, people who act in defense of others and never as an indulgence or in vengeance. Luke's wisdom in the throne room was true Jedi wisdom and Luke only goes on the offense when Vader threatens to turn Leia but quickly sees what he could become.
Even Obi Wan is never like "I must destroy you Vader after all these years". Obi fights Vader in defense of himself and of helping Luke escape the Death Star and trusting him with the future.
Luke's need to save his father is not because of his direct attachment but in his trust in his friends, the rebels and in his father to give up his conflict and join him win over the dark side.
>>1037The Pykes just
told Bane that they did it and pinned it on the Nikto bikers, and Bane passed the info on to Boba to try and get him to get in a duel with Bane. Bane had literally 0 influence on the events, he was just using it as a way to taunt Boba into acting unwise.Bane was probably not taken aback by it as much as interested in it, imho. Mind this guy was literally paid to kidnap children in Clone Wars and was fine by it, I doubt he minds
tribal genocide as anything to gawk at.
As for the episode overall I liked it as a kind of "payoff" seeing as how slow the pace of the rest of the show is. Personally I think they needed to either
cut/condense all of the Mandalorian crossover bits or give the show like 2 extra episodes to expand its concepts more, maybe one extra tusken episode and one extra episode of Boba establishing his rule, maybe hiring mercenaries and showing his enforcement of rule on the city at work.
>>1038I think that works within the vaguely defined limits of the jedi as per the OT (if you discount Luke saying he won't kill his father and Yoda saying the Empire has already won, but that may be a question of willingness more than necessity) but in the context of the prequels that is pretty wrong, the jedi have a super-strict code of how to orient themselves while in the order and the entire chosen one prophesy is very explicitly thought to be "destroy the sith" forever, or at least that is what the Jedi think.
>>1039makesmethink.jpg
altho, ye robots are just literal slaves. if we ever have robots in the future, I think they’ll want liberation too.
>>1039>>1041>picked up another pathetic life-formThat refers to Jar Jar and Anikin and is supposed to be negative, to contrast Qui Gon.
>eplace *droid* with uyghur.Droids aren't people, they aren't living beings from the get go. Advanced AI of droids can develop into a self-aware being (R2D2 for example) but generally they are not sapients, "muh uyghur" is a terrible false equivalency.
>>1047That's fan lore, right ?
So nothing official
>>1046The franchise isn't about, nor should it be about concrete ideologies outside basic vague similarities - instead it tells stories that had overarching ideas and messages on a human level but also a general socio-political level; Sith are fascist, the Republic is bureaucratic "democracy" of the rich, the Jedi are supposed to be enlightened monks but are not immune to corruption and losing sight of their role in lieu of ambition, etc.
I'm sure if I dig up old memories I can recall a direct "communist faction" group but that's tangential to the purpose and tale of Star Wars.
>>1044>Space copsI never see Jedi preventing union struggles or labor disputes, never seen anyone they fight be a communist
>Child abusersLiterally how? Because they raise children to teach children how to use their abilities and connect with the Force? I never get these sorts of arguments tbh, a Force user without emotional control can easily become a deranged mass murderer
>Emotional abusers and manipulators?To who? You mean because they actually have rules as a religious order? Do you mean because Anakin had to follow rules? He always had the ability to leave, even as a child
>authoritarian????
You realize you haven’t posted proofs so far?
>Allow colonialism, capitalism, and imperialism to go on uncheckedOnly worthwhile criticism of the Jedi so far, nevertheless, there are only 10,000 Jedi
Lemme guess tho, if they took over the government (impossible since they got merked by the clones and couldn’t best the droid army) that would also prove they’re evil?
>>1045Based, it’s just edginess, there’s never actual proofs for the Jedi being evil, out of everyone in the entire Star Wars Galaxy they’re the least bad
>>1038Tbh
Mace would’ve been 100% justified to kill Palpatine in that moment
First off
1. He wasn’t actually defenseless since he could shoot lightning from his hands
2. He actually did control the Senate and the Courts, he’d get away with his crimes
3. He controlled both armies in the clone wars
4. Anakin killed him for selfish reasons and didn’t give a fuck about the Jedi bs reasons he gave to spare Palps, Anakin literally murdered a defenseless man a couple weeks before
>>1040That seems to be what the Prophecy basically was, Anakin had a chance to destroy Sidious in Episode III and chose not to for selfish reasons, and Obi-Wan had absolutely no reason to think a child murdering fascist that betrayed all his friends, tried to kill him personally, and helped destroy an entire planet would stop at the thought of killing his adult son that he never raised
>>1030What exactly was wrong with the Old Jedi Order? The Old Republic Era Jedi who had less rules and were freer had shit tons of students fall to the dark side and cause massive galactic wide wars and Sith Empires
The Prequel Era Jedi maintained peace for 1,000 years straight and had only two students fall to the dark side in their entire history, one of which fell because he refused to follow the rules
>>1032I think modern Westoids struggle to comprehend what a monk is
But also, the old Jedi gave people a choice, you always had a choice to leave the Jedi Order
>>1050Based response from you too
>>1051>Mace would’ve been 100% justified to kill Palpatine in that momentFrom a practical standpoint yes, but from as a Jedi it violated the code, as did many of their actions during the fabricated war.
>Anakin killed him for selfish reasons and didn’t give a fuck about the Jedi bs reasons he gave to spare Palps, Anakin literally murdered a defenseless man a couple weeks before And then he regretted it, the pivotal concept that keeps coming up is him repeating, "this is not the Jedi way" and Palpatine, grooming him from the beginning, preyed on that.
Also Anakin only (literally) disarmed him, Palpatine killed Mace.
>>1052>why are so many people upset that the Jedi have to make sacrifices to be Jedi? Because people fail to realize that it ISN'T a generic fun space knight fantasy.
>>1053>had only two students fall to the dark sideNot 2 but yeah, very low (Qui Gon's first Padawan and a couple other ones too).
>one of which fell because he refused to follow the rulesWell also that ONE had been THE CHOSEN ONE (other than Luke) and his fall to the darkside came from the Jedi's failings, leading to not following rules in the first place.
>>1054Honestly I never understood arguments that blamed either the Jedi for Anakin’s turn or Mace Windu for his own murder
Firstly…how was Mace Windu moving to kill Sidious against the Jedi code? Because he was pathetically begging for his life? Because he pulled an obvious ruse? I’d say killing Sidious right then and there would have been completely within the Jedi way, since Mace wasn’t stupid and naive enough to think someone who just shot lighting out of his hands was “unarmed”. If anything his biggest mistake was going for a dramatic overhand blow instead of just stabbing the bastard.
As for Anakin, what part of his downfall was seriously the fault of the Jedi? Was it the part where they didn’t puff up his ego and tell him since he was “the Chosen One” he was superior to all other Jedi and thus could flaunt the rules, surely he needed an even more inflated ego! Was it the part where they didn’t let him have a secret wife they didn’t even know about (definitely their fault that Anakin simultaneously wanted the power and prestige of being a Jedi as well as not needing to take on the sacrifices a Jedi is expected to make, and he definitely couldn’t just marry Padme, leave the order, and still retain his Jedi training and knowledge of the Force). Was it the part where Yoda told him he needs to accept that death actually is an inevitable and natural part of life which every single person needs to learn (reminder, Anakin was a grown man)? Was it denying him the rank of Master after Palpatine forced them to put Anakin on the Council and when he proved exactly why he hadn’t earned the rank with his response?
Seriously, where did the Jedi go wrong other than giving him a lenient, inexperienced master like Obi-Wan? If anything, Mace would’ve set him straight, I say this as a fan of Anakin
And regarding the Jedi’s rules, again, when they were far looser with their rules literally thousands of jedi fell to the dark side and formed massive Sith armies that terrorized the Galaxy
>>1055 Fuck I accidentally made a rant, sorry.
>blamed either the Jedi Because that was the entire theme of the prequel trilogy - the blind incumbent attitude of the Jedi that had grown arrogant and negligent to the point that they refused to believe that the Sith could ever fool them or hide from them until Qui Gons death. Only by the 2nd film did Yoda begin to realize that "blind, we are" and only by the third film did he begin to seriously pay attention to the troubles of Anakin, but too late at that point.
The Jedi are not intentionally evil or at fault, but they have become a bloated hierarchy that made arbitrary decisions and have lost their missions,
>they didn’t puff up his ego and tell him since he was “the Chosen One” he was superior to all other Jedi and thus could flaunt the rules 1) Anakin didn't flaunt the rules openly any more than other Jedi.
2) There is a difference between keeping an ego uninflated and putting a person down repeatedly with constant disapproval
3) They put the pressure of the label on him, having high expectations for a slave child that they initially rejected, yet never taking him seriously
>how was Mace Windu moving to kill Sidious against the Jedi code? Because he was pathetically begging for his life? Because it was an un-Jedi like impulse; a raring-to-go pursuit that ended up killing 4 other masters and ended up providing Palpatine the opportunity to present the wavering Anakin a visage of a Jedi preparing to kill an unarmed old man. Yes Palpatine is a powerful Sith, but by that point Anakin has been swayed and feels betrayed by the Jedi and their entire way of life, because through the Jedi he has repeatedly lost what he cared about and failed to do what he wanted to achieve. He couldn't free his mother as he promised, petty politics prevented him from going out and putting an end to the injustices and chaos of the galaxy and in the end he fell to evil in trying to do this, all due to the unwitting failure and ignorance of the self-righteous Jedi. Moreover Palpatine, having no lightsabre had nothing he could really do against Windu, the latter had negated his lightning and outdueled him, he was at Mace's mercy. And yet Mace opted to go for the same thing that Anakin did to Dooku, and that he did at Palpatine's prompting and his own hatred that he had finally realized ran counter to the Jedi teaching. It is a literal parallel, that gets demonstrated by the line,
"he's too dangerous to be left alive" - the Jedi in practice have been doing no different than the Sith in going from peacekeepers to being enforcers of the republic and betraying their own self in Anakin's view.
>Anakin simultaneously wanted the power and prestige of being a Jedi as well as not needing to take on the sacrifices a Jedi is expected to make Because they failed to impress upon him the necessity of it properly, preaching dry dogma is ineffective.
>leave the order, and still retain his Jedi training and knowledge of the ForceThat's ridiculous. For Anakin the Jedi are his home that he dedicated his life to for the purpose of fighting injustice in the galaxy, in his mind. Moreover him leaving would be worse, because Palpatine'd have unrestricted influence on him even more than before, making him even easier to turn. Moreover the entire purpose of the Jedi order is to be a method to keep force-users in the light and prevent them falling.
The entire attitude that the Jedi practiced in the war is specifically the problem that Luke has in Empire Strikes Back and Yoda warned of. Being a Jedi and being a Hero are not the same.
>going for a dramatic overhand blow instead of just stabbing the bastardThe man survived being hit by his own force lightning, a cauterized hole isn't going to do much.
>Anakin, what part of his downfall was seriously the fault of the JediTheir treatment of him; ignoring his clear trauma and problems and letting THE CHOSEN ONE fall to the dark side, Palpatine is the only one other than Qui Gon that demonstrated belief and support of him, rather than constantly reprimanding him and doubting him.
>Palpatine forced them to put Anakin on the CouncilExcept they ought not to have bent to the demand, they are supposed to be independent of the government. Moreover by not giving full status to Anakin they essentially proclaim yet another snubbing of him that an already jaded Anakin is bound to notice and react to.
>Yoda told him he needs to accept that death actually is an inevitable and natural part of life which every single person needs to learnAnd that's retarded because the person in question isn't already dead, is Anakins' love and in the past his visions that he had put off resulted in the death of his mother, whom he had felt great guilt for abandoning on his hated home planet. Generic platitudes of "death is inevitable" that translate to "let them die, don't be attached" are not going to be worth anything to him, because they do nothing to assuage the underlying problem and the existing attachment. To Anakin the Jedi were supposed to be about bringing peace and justice to the galaxy and to be the hero, an attitude that is against the monklike ideology of the Jedi Code, but that had been contradicted by their involvement and actions in the war.
The Jedi of the prequel era dismiss attachments but are negligent in the problem of a more matured child like Anakin needing to have it explained properly and provide actual spiritual peace, instead his emotional attachments became repressed and festered and he only got reprimanded for it, rather than guidance until it became too late to do that. Moreover the Jedi themselves misunderstood their code, as attachment being thrown aside led to a cold entitlement and not the enlightenment it ought to. That is the story of Luke, that realized the true meaning of letting go attachments.
>Anakin was a grown manAnd? The fuck does that mean? How the hell is that making it easier to accept death and let go of attachment? People are emotional and not robots that are logical by default. That's the importance of Lukes choice in the OT later, he overcame himself and chooses to not kill Vader and become the metaphorical dragon he fought, instead defining himself as a Jedi.
>other than giving him a lenient, inexperienced master like Obi-WanYou're being obtuse. Kenobi, in the presence of other people kept putting Anakin down outright, in a nearly childish manner (Ex. meeting Padme again in Film II and immediately denying Anakin harshly rather than patiently as a teacher ought to, a la Qui Gon). The Council, by allowing Kenobi to take a clearly nonstandard student is negligent. And it gave Palpatine the space to step into the role of being supportive mentor, filling Anakins head with ideas of ambitious destiny, feeding into underlying insecurities and increasing Anakin's distrust of the Jedi, and feeling of betrayal in being utilized as a spy against the chancellor, who he did trust, yet the Jedi don't notice.
>Mace would’ve set him straightMaybe, but Mace didn't take responsibility for teaching Anakin, did he?
>regarding the Jedi’s rules, again, when they were far looser with their rules literally thousands of jedi fell to the dark side and formed massive Sith armies that terrorized the GalaxyAnd? You're kind of ignoring the context. A thousand years of no change to rigid rules are ridiculous and the lack of sith armies is kind of due to their utter annihilation and moreover we only KNOW of 2 fallen Jedi in the canon films at the end of the 1000 years, not the entire 1000 year period. In the natural order of things, something that never evolves eventually dies out, that's kind of the lesson here.
TL;DR: A good summary of it is that Anakin's story and relationship to the Jedi is that of a spiritual and wise religion that had grown stagnant and arrogant, getting ahold of the messiah, and through their inflexible attitude pushing him into the arms of a near literal Lucifer.
>>1058>Because that was the entire theme of the prequel trilogy - the blind incumbent attitude of the Jedi that had grown arrogant and negligent to the point that they refused to believe that the Sith could ever fool them or hide from them until Qui Gons deathWhy are you assuming that was actually the theme of the Prequel Trilogy, though? Imma do a huge defense of the Jedi here, because they get unfairly shat upon, are blamed for the selfish decisions of a grown man, and the wicked machinations of a fascist sociopath.
WRT the Jedi Council not instantly believing Qui-Gon encountered a Sith Lord until he died….why would they just instantly believe that? It’s not like dark jedi were entirely unheard of, sure, it WAS a Sith Lord after all, but they had no real reason to think that until Maul displayed the skill to murder one of the most skilled masters in the Jedi Order, it’s not like they just blew Qui-Gon off, they said they’d investigate the matter, but it’s not unreasonable for them to first consider ruling out the possibilities of it just being a dark jedi or unaffiliated dark sider he encountered.
And the thing is, the Jedi already believed they HAD killed Darth Bane and that he never had an apprentice, they knew about his philosophy, he just pulled a clever ruse.
> Only by the 2nd film did Yoda begin to realize that "blind, we are" and only by the third film did he begin to seriously pay attention to the troubles of Anakin, but too late at that point. I’d say Yoda was never blind to the troubles with Anakin though, he saw the potential threat Anakin could pose, the personal reasons as to why, and even outlined the steps in the boy’s fall to the dark side the day he met him, despite that Yoda (or rather the Council) still chose to have faith in Qui-Gon’s wisdom and train Anakin despite knowing they’d be training a jedi with the potential to kill every last one of them and the unbalanced nature to potentially fall one day. Even then, Yoda would council Obi-Wan in how to train Anakin, would listen if Anakin sought out his advice, would consider with the other council members how to train him, and generally took great concern for Anakin’s well-being, even showing great sorrow when sensing Anakin’s immense pain upon losing his mother. If anything, the fact that Yoda did not suspect Anakin’s hidden marriage or loyalty to Palpatine shows how much faith he had in him.
> 1) Anakin didn't flaunt the rules openly any more than other JediHe certainly did during the Clone Wars, he also never hid his egotism, and even if he didn’t OPENLY flaunt the rules he still DID flaunt the rules
> 2) There is a difference between keeping an ego uninflated and putting a person down repeatedly with constant disapproval In what way do they put Anakin down constantly in either the films or the Clone Wars series? They made Anakin a Jedi knight and a general younger than almost any other Jedi, they graced him with an apprentice younger than Obi-Wan was given one, they made him the youngest Jedi ever placed on the Jedi Council, they personally vouched for him in front of Obi-Wan praising his skills and saying he was ready for a lone assignment in Episode II IIRC. The thing is, Anakin does have immense flaws, he is deeply arrogant, he is emotionally unbalanced, and most dangerously of all, he has no qualms about taking life. On top of all that, he didn’t know what it truly meant to be a Jedi, neither as a child, nor as an actual knight in the Clone Wars. The Jedi did not put him down, they were just aware of his flaws, they treated him the same way they’d treat any other knight. It was Palpatine that fed into Anakin the notion that the Jedi looked down on him, but Palpatine, as you know, was grooming him and didn’t give a shit about his well-being.
>3) They put the pressure of the label on him, having high expectations for a slave child that they initially rejected, yet never taking him seriouslyThis is one of the only things I will agree with, Anakin should not have been told he was the Chosen One. The thing is, it was
Qui-Gon that declared Anakin the Chosen One in front of the Council, arguably it was he that planted the seed in his mind.
> Because it was an un-Jedi like impulse; a raring-to-go pursuit that ended up killing 4 other masters and ended up providing Palpatine the opportunity to present the wavering Anakin a visage of a Jedi preparing to kill an unarmed old manHow was the impulse un-Jedi like? Remember Mace’s actual words after Anakin tells him Palps was the Sith Master, he says: “If the Jedi are to survive we must act now”
He was entirely right
Anakin basically told him that the Sith
already ruled the Galaxy and were effectively leading the Jedi for the past ten years. The Sith controlled the billions strong droid army and millions strong clone army. General Grievous had just been killed in combat meaning the war was to officially come to an end. The Sith already had the Jedi in check and Mace understood that it was now time to put them in checkmate. Remember, Mace going to confront Sidious and nearly killing him wasn’t a part of Sidious’s plans.
And also, remember Anakin’s actual words in that scene. Consider that to reach that room Anakin walked through a room full of the dead bodies of three of the most powerful and skilled Jedi in the order, he walked in to witness Palps unleash the most powerful lightning blast he had ever seen, and already knew Palps was the even more powerful master of Dooku who was already immensely powerful
Anakin’s exact words consist of using Jedi tripe to get Mace to spare Sidious, then finally dropping the facade and crying out that he “needs him”, then shouting out and assisting in killing Mace. Anakin didn’t cut off Windu’s hand because of the “Jedi way”, he did it because of fear of losing Sidious’s knowledge.
>Yes Palpatine is a powerful Sith, but by that point Anakin has been swayed and feels betrayed by the Jedi and their entire way of life, because through the Jedi he has repeatedly lost what he cared about and failed to do what he wanted to achieve. He couldn't free his mother as he promised, petty politics prevented him from going out and putting an end to the injustices and chaos of the galaxy and in the end he fell to evil in trying to do this, all due to the unwitting failure and ignorance of the self-righteous Jedi.Well, yea, this just isn’t really sympathetic to me. The notion that Anakin turned evil largely to save someone he loved (the main reason) is more sympathetic to me than him turning evil because the Jedi didn’t give him what he wanted. How did the Jedi betray Anakin? They didn’t betray Anakin, they just treated him the way they treated any other Jedi who Anakin felt he deserved better treatment than. The Jedi weren’t the ones who kidnapped and murdered his mother, and his mother had been free for years before being kidnapped by the tuskens anyway. The Jedi “failed to do what he wanted to achieve”, but what he wanted to achieve had always been against the way of the Jedi and was arguably more in line with the way of the Jedi, the Jedi do not seek power, nor are they adventurers gallivanting around the Galaxy, the Jedi who sought those things like Exar Kun and Revan inevitably fell to the Dark Side, Exar fell for power and knowledge, Revan fell in a pursuit of blind justice. The tragedy of both characters is that their fall is also understandable, a situation can be tragic and understandable without being right or forgivable. Regarding the chaos and suffering in the Galaxy, the largest source of that chaos and suffering was the man Anakin stood beside, the moment Palps revealed he was the Sith Master he also revealed to Anakin that he was behind the massive galactic war that killed billions in which Anakin saw so many innocent people and comrades die.
>galaxy and in the end he fell to evil in trying to do this, all due to the unwitting failure and ignorance of the self-righteous Jedi. Moreover Palpatine, having no lightsabre had nothing he could really do against Windu, the latter had negated his lightning and outdueled him, he was at Mace's mercy. And yet Mace opted to go for the same thing that Anakin did to Dooku, and that he did at Palpatine's prompting and his own hatred that he had finally realized ran counter to the Jedi teaching. It is a literal parallel, that gets demonstrated by the line, "he's too dangerous to be left alive" - the Jedi in practice have been doing no different than the Sith in going from peacekeepers to being enforcers of the republic and betraying their own self in Anakin's view. The thing is, it literally wasn’t a parallel. Anakin killed Dooku for revenge, Palps himself points this out, Dooku literally had no hands and could no longer fight in any capacity, he was the leader of the enemy state in a total war so if he was put on trial he’d basically be fucked. Palpatine still had the ability to cast devastating force attacks, was the most influential Senator in the Galaxy, was the head of state of the victor in the war; if he was put on trial he would win, accuse the Jedi of treason, execute Order 66, and bring the Empire to fruition, Palps had already won and the only choice left to the Jedi was for the Chosen One to help kill the Sith Master and end the Sith once and for all. How do you know that the scene in question wasn’t just Anakin refusing his destiny? Think about it, in that moment the Chosen One was in the room and literally the only option left for saving the Jedi was to execute Sidious, Anakin was their only hope in that moment.
> Because they failed to impress upon him the necessity of it properly, preaching dry dogma is ineffective. That’s arguably on Obi-Wan for being a somewhat shit mentor
That’s why I say he should’ve been taught by Mace Windu or Yoda himself
> That's ridiculous. For Anakin the Jedi are his home that he dedicated his life to for the purpose of fighting injustice in the galaxy, in his mind. Moreover him leaving would be worse, because Palpatine'd have unrestricted influence on him even more than before, making him even easier to turn. Moreover the entire purpose of the Jedi order is to be a method to keep force-users in the light and prevent them falling. That’s why it’s a tragedy, Anakin and the Jedi were in a catch-22
The Jedi Order was his home, but Padme was his
wife, and was the mother of his children. He could leave the Jedi Order but not be left alone. He could leave the order and live with Padme either on Coruscant or Naboo which is what she begged him to do once he became Darth Vader. There’s no reason why leaving the JO means surrendering all ties to them, remember, they still helped Ahsoka investigate Maul on her own and granted her an entire clone battalion to go free Mandalore. And I doubt Obi-Wan would just cut Anakin off if he left the Jedi Order, or that the Jedi would look down on him or despise him, remember, Mace Windu was still fond of Dooku before he was revealed as a Sith
I think the true failing of the Jedi was their alliance with the Republic and them engaging in the war, but even then, the Clone War was the perfect Jedi trap for a reason, the Jedi knew the Sith led the Separatists, they knew a Sith lord was also active somewhere near the Senate, and they knew the Separatists would definitely defeat the Republic if they didn’t help them, and the last time they just watched a war happen, Darth Revan was born
> The man survived being hit by his own force lightning, a cauterized hole isn't going to do much. I think it probably would’ve done a lot to burn his heart to ashes with a plasma sword
> Their treatment of him; ignoring his clear trauma and problems and letting THE CHOSEN ONE fall to the dark side, Palpatine is the only one other than Qui Gon that demonstrated belief and support of him, rather than constantly reprimanding him and doubting him. How is that true at all? Obi-Wan believed and supported Anakin all the way, Anakin openly acknowledged Obi-Wan as his best friend, admired Obi-Wan when he was still his apprentice, and Obi-Wan even knew about Anakin’s feelings for Padme and suspected they had a relationship. Obi-Wan knew in his heart that Anakin turned to the Sith but still refused to believe it until he saw evidence, and he blamed himself for it 20 years after the fact. Obi-Wan genuinely loved Anakin and never doubted he would be the one to bring balance, not since becoming his master. Obi-Wan only actually doubted himself as a teacher. All the Jedi had great faith in Anakin, Ahsoka admired him before even meeting him, he was friendly with every Jedi we meet in TCW, in Mace’s personal novel the story concludes with Mace deciding that only Anakin could save the Jedi and he put his faith in him almost entirely, Yoda and Anakin are even shown a very positive relationship in TCW. Most of the Jedi liked and respected Anakin, especially when he finally proved himself in the war. They just didn’t blow smoke up his ass like Palps did.
And they don’t know about Anakin’s trauma because, on the one hand he never told them, on the other they sadly cannot relate. No other Jedi knew what it was like to be a slave or to have a mother who loved them, and he never revealed to them that his mother died in his arms and he went on a massacre to avenge her.
> Except they ought not to have bent to the demand, they are supposed to be independent of the government. Moreover by not giving full status to Anakin they essentially proclaim yet another snubbing of him that an already jaded Anakin is bound to notice and react to. I think this is absolutely a fair point, but I also like the theory that Mace Windu had Anakin wait in the Council Chamber before going to face Palps was because he would make him a master when he returned
Gonna do another post to respond to the rest, this is getting very long
>>1058>And that's retarded because the person in question isn't already dead, is Anakins' love and in the past his visions that he had put off resulted in the death of his mother, whom he had felt great guilt for abandoning on his hated home planet. You genuinely believe Padme wouldn’t rather just die then have her husband murder innocent children, betray all of his friends (and murder many of them too), and help erect a fascist government all in her name? There is a lesson in what Yoda said, Anakin and his apologists refuse to hear it, which is that Padme was not his
possession. Anakin did not want to lose Padme, this is understandable, Yoda was silly to say he should not mourn nor miss a dead loved one, but he was certainly correct to reiterate that death is a natural part of life. The lengths Anakin went to showed his feeling for Padme went beyond love, it was possessiveness, this was demonstrated when he attacked her for refusing to go along with his murderous actions and fascist will to power. Padme could not die because she was HIS, that was part of the problem. Instead of focusing on how to protect her from harm, he focused on how to become a god and resurrect the dead so that he would never lose her, that is insane. And remember, the premonition of Padme’s death turned out not to be a premonition of an inevitable fate, but a premonition of every action he would consciously choose. If he had heeded Yoda’s words, meditated, and remained calm, Padme would not have died. The Force does not show definite futures, only potential ones, and it never gives you the full picture. I think it is significant that Anakin first has these nightmares after murdering a defenseless man in cold blood, perhaps we shouldn’t think that the Force was warning Anakin about Padme’s impending death, but was instead warning him of how close the dark side he was. And the difference between Padme and the dreams about his mother are this, Anakin’s dreams about his mother occurred while she was being harmed and was already near death, in that instance he was sensing something that was already happening far away, with Padme it was a dream of the future, and only a potential one, a warning of where the dark side would leave him.
> Generic platitudes of "death is inevitable" that translate to "let them die, don't be attached" are not going to be worth anything to him, because they do nothing to assuage the underlying problem and the existing attachment.In therapy, and I myself attend therapy, there is an understanding that, to heal, one needs to be willing to make a change in one’s self. Anakin sought Yoda for advice, if he was unwilling to heed Yoda’s advice there wasn’t much Yoda could do, and since Anakin wasn’t even forthright with the problem there wasn’t much Yoda could say. For all Yoda knew, Anakin was having premonitions about Obi-Wan dying, Anakin is a frontlines general in a war after all, the most Yoda could really tell him is that, well, if Obi-Wan dies remember he lives on in the Force. And Yoda didn’t say “let them die”, that’s what Anakin *heard, what Yoda said is that Anakin must be willing to accept that he cannot control the lives of others, that you can lose people and you must learn to not let the fear of losing them consume the time you do have with them. Yoda’s advice was largely therapeutic.
>To Anakin the Jedi were supposed to be about bringing peace and justice to the galaxy and to be the hero, an attitude that is against the monklike ideology of the Jedi Code, but that had been contradicted by their involvement and actions in the war. As you say, Anakin had mistaken ideas about the Jedi, and the war certainly didn’t help mend his mistaken ideas about them. However, the war was designed such that the Jedi couldn’t just refuse to participate. The Sith were known to lead the enemy, they were known to be influencing the Republic, the enemy had an army that would surely defeat the Republic, and the Republic asked them for assistance. When they refused during the Mandalorian War billions of lives were slaughtered, Jedi individually decided they couldn’t watch the massacre any longer and went rogue to fight anyway (including their greatest student at the time), and the consequence was that many of those rogue Jedi turned to the dark side, committed immense war crimes, and launched an even worse Jedi-Sith war with the Sith led by their most powerful student, the end result of all of that was that the Jedi Order were nearly destroyed and were wiped out down to only a dozen survivors. It makes sense that they didn’t just watch the Clone War happen.
> The Jedi of the prequel era dismiss attachments but are negligent in the problem of a more matured child like Anakin needing to have it explained properly and provide actual spiritual peace, instead his emotional attachments became repressed and festered and he only got reprimanded for it, rather than guidance until it became too late to do that. Moreover the Jedi themselves misunderstood their code, as attachment being thrown aside led to a cold entitlement and not the enlightenment it ought toI’d say they are ignorant of Anakin’s problems, but not intentionally so, they made the mistake of going against their own wisdom and trained someone so old in their ways when they honestly didn’t know how to, then they gave him to a newly minted knight who was unsure of himself, then they allowed him to have a personal friendship with Palpatine (though many would argue they had no right saying who he could befriend anyway), and then they failed to impress on him what it means to be a Jedi. However, blaming all of it on the Jedi fails to account for the fact that, again, Anakin was groomed by Sidious for 13 years starting in his childhood, whatever lessons the Jedi would try teaching Anakin could be subtly taken apart by Sidious, whatever attempts they made at teaching him patience and humility could be warped by Sidious into “proof” that they feared and loathed him, whatever they tried teaching him about the Jedi principle of non-attachment (which doesn’t mean foregoing friendship or compassion btw) could be manipulated by Sidious to be examples of the Jedi being aloof, or out-of-touch, or unwilling to let Anakin feel emotions. Remember that when looking at things from Anakin’s POV, Anakin is not an unbiased observer, and he is being actively manipulated by an extremely charismatic sociopath.
>And? The fuck does that mean? How the hell is that making it easier to accept death and let go of attachment?It’s not that it makes it easier, it’s that, as you become an adult, the harsher parts of life are things you need to learn to accept for what they are. We aren’t gods, in Star Wars Anakin as the Chosen One is not a god. Death is not easy, losing someone you love is not easy, but losing people you love
is inevitable, and upon reaching adulthood most people learn how to accept and cope with this fact.
> People are emotional and not robots that are logical by defaultBut that’s not what the Jedi believe people to be. Jedi feel joy, the feel anger, they feel grief, they feel love (both of the compassionate and romantic varieties). As Obi-Wan tells Anakin, feeling love is not wrong, Obi-Wan also loved a woman very deeply and she died in his arms, Obi-Wan also felt pain and rage when the same Sith lord that murdered his mentor right in front of him also murdered her, and Obi-Wan clearly grieved for his mentor or he would not remember him and compare themselves as teachers. But Obi-Wan rises above it, because he is a Jedi in a way Anakin is not. Honestly part of what makes Obi-Wan so great, as a side note.
> That's the importance of Lukes choice in the OT later, he overcame himself and chooses to not kill Vader and become the metaphorical dragon he fought, instead defining himself as a Jedi. Full agreement here
> You're being obtuse. Kenobi, in the presence of other people kept putting Anakin down outright, in a nearly childish manner (Ex. meeting Padme again in Film II and immediately denying Anakin harshly rather than patiently as a teacher ought to, a la Qui Gon). The Council, by allowing Kenobi to take a clearly nonstandard student is negligentI actually totally agree that Obi-Wan wasn’t a good mentor. He trained Anakin well in terms of combat skills and force abilities, he sucked at impressing on Anakin what it means to be a Jedi and did the especially shitty thing of puffing up his pride sometimes while undercutting his confidence other times, it was very uneven. Obi-Wan definitely didn’t hate Anakin, in fact he cared for him and tried to do his best, but he arguably did fail him as a teacher and acknowledged that many times. And we can see that the way he taught Luke was very different from how he taught Anakin in the brief time he did teach him, so I think that’s intentional. Obi-Wan arguably became a better mentor in TCW, when he and Anakin were technically equals and he became more like the buddy who gives you advice and emotional support, and helped Anakin train Ahsoka pretty significantly. Anakin and Obi-Wan are similar in that regard that they each learned more by taking on a student rather than being a student.
> And it gave Palpatine the space to step into the role of being supportive mentor, filling Anakins head with ideas of ambitious destiny, feeding into underlying insecurities and increasing Anakin's distrust of the Jedi, and feeling of betrayal in being utilized as a spy against the chancellor, who he did trust, yet the Jedi don't notice. To be fair, Palpatine is also a magnificently charismatic bastard. He rose up from a political nobody to the Chancellor off a single crisis. Hell, when Luke Skywalker entered the Death Star KNOWING that Palps was an evil Sith lord who literally looks like a goddamned monster, he still nearly got manipulated into turning into the next Vader and Palps accomplished that by just having a conversation with him. Like, we can’t downplay Sidious here, I reiterate, Luke
knew he was an evil monstrous Sith Lord who was currently killing his friends and Palps so believed in his personal charisma that he knew all he needed to do was just talk to Luke in just the right circumstance and it nearly succeeded. Now consider that during the Prequels he was “just” a charming and compassionate but firm, confident but humble senator from a small peaceful world that only had the Galaxy’s best interests in mind and wanted nothing more than to prevent the breakup of the Republic, and took an active interest in the Jedi as peacekeepers, why, of course he would like to know the Jedi’s most promising student, he has conversations with Yoda and Mace Windu after all!
> Maybe, but Mace didn't take responsibility for teaching Anakin, did he? He didn’t because he respected Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan had already chosen to take on Anakin as an apprentice with respect to his mentor’s dying wish.
> And? You're kind of ignoring the context. A thousand years of no change to rigid rules are ridiculous and the lack of sith armies is kind of due to their utter annihilation and moreover we only KNOW of 2 fallen Jedi in the canon films at the end of the 1000 years, not the entire 1000 year period. In the natural order of things, something that never evolves eventually dies out, that's kind of the lesson here. The idea of that is generally correct, but again, how should the Jedi have evolved in your mind? Consider that every step of Anakin’s fall was precipitated by his unwillingness to listen to the Jedi. And what we know of Dooku’s fall, it seems to center around Dooku’s empathy being very dulled and his own arrogance.
Because remember, the way people always say the Jedi SHOULD change, solely for a single student (Anakin) was the way of the Old Republic Jedi who had fucktons of their own fall to the dark side and form massive Sith armies every time, and in the Old EU, remember, a shit ton of Luke’s jedi students also fell to the dark side and his own nephew became the second Vader due to his personal attachments even though that JO allowed marriage and familial bonds and shit
>>1061i think the failure of the jedi order, for anakin's case only, is the mantra of possession and attachment told by yoda. I feel like there's a key element to both of these feelings, and that is control and power. However, in the context of Anakin, being told to let go of this possession and attachment can lead to many valid interpretations. Not to say that Anakin was justified, but rather his interpretation, despite the consequences was a valid interpretation, given his unrecognized desire for power and control given his trauma, of being against this mantra that Yoda told him. These abstract concepts of possession and control have many underlying feelings that could be different for many people. I feel like he must process his feelings and understand his feelings before letting go. To let go of these feelings without understanding it is just immature. I dont think Yoda is necessarily at a key fault, as his understanding of the mantra probably came from centuries of experience. But to simply re-iterate the mantra rather than explore the specific context behind Anakin's feelings was the point of no return, probably?
happy may 4th lads
https://youtu.be/3Yh_6_zItPUObi Wan movie trailer just dropped
>>1069I watched it (pirated of course) and its… not the worst, really?
The production values are obviously a bit lower than the Mandalorian or whatever but its still decent production values. The greatest offense is probably the Grand Inquisitor, who went from a Munn (I think) to just a regular old human, but thus far he has had like 20 seconds of screentime so whatever. The first episode is also pretty low stakes action wise but it'd be a bit weird if it was - Obi Wan clocks in his 9 to 5 (and steals food from his boss, absolute champ), Owen is his usual dick-ass self, and
Leia has a Benny Hill chase trying to run away from the Epstein goons who want to abduct her for pedophilic purposes. Its basically the call to action but as an entire episode, and if it is a slower-paced chiller show with more emphasis on espionage and evading the empire I think I might like it.
The thing I worried about most was it just being the Mandalorian but worse, but so far it looks like it is moving towards being its own thing.
As for /pol/ and the insane right-wing segment of the fandom more generally I dunno or really care what they think, they are the exact people who unironically made shit like picrel and generally poisoned the well for critique of Disney's version of Star Wars by making it all about their insane fetishes and personal psychological damages.
>>1070>generally poisoned the well for critique of Disney's version of Star Wars by making it all about their insane fetishes and personal psychological damages.Couldn't have put it better myself. I do honestly think Disney Wars is shit but when 99% of the critique of Episode VIII is "Woman has pink hair" it's hard to point out how bloated a script it is and how having a divergent plot that leads nowhere is a sign of a naive director that isn't willing to cut corners. Also I find it funny how /pol/ claims Disney is communist or something and the libs are ruining film. No, the films do not suck because of 'current thing', they suck in substance and you're just complaining about the surface stuff that Disney tacks on to make it appealing to the largest demographic, Disney isn't controlled by an SJW cabal or something they're run by greedy fucks that only care about selling tickets and as such try to incorporate what is popular or mainstream into their films.
But I'm expecting /pol/ to have nuance when it comes to corporations and marketing, I may as well expect a monkey to write shakespeare.
>>1072FWIW I think they did manage to find the ONLY reason I could see Obi-Wan coming out of hiding
Like, some random Jedi begging for help didn’t do it, the Inquisitors showing up didn’t do it, but Leia, one of the last hopes of the Jedi being kidnapped? I can see him legitimately going to rescue her.
>>1071Honestly as someone that used to hate on The Last Jedi, I will say people definitely hate on it for silly reasons imo
Like, the plot with Finn and Rose is legitimately bad, and Holdo is just a genuinely shitty character who sort of comes out of nowhere and is generally extremely off-putting, not for putting Poe down, but for being so bad at inspiring confidence that her own subordinates think she’s either a literal traitor or at least incompetently leading them to their deaths
That being said, I think the stuff exploring the Force and the Jedi is legitimately great. I like how the film ultimately refuses the centrist position, no, you can’t be centrist regarding the fascist First Order, no, you can’t be centrist regarding the exploitation of the working class, no, you can’t be centrist in the struggle between the dark side and the light. I will say stuff like the Jedi being destroyed was extremely disappointing, but TFA had already done that anyway, so I have to take TLJ for what it is on its own. I hated Luke at first, but in hindsight, it was something of a beautiful story actually. Of course Luke was depressed and had given up on himself, everything he had ever built or fought for was destroyed by a single error in his life, giving into fear for even a moment destroyed everything for the man and led to the creation of a new Darth Vader out of a new Skywalker. Sure, you can say Luke never gave up in the OT, but he was also a young man in the OT, surrounded by his friends, and never really had everything destroyed in this specific way, having his family killed it makes sense he would go to join the Rebellion, nothing in ESB was really on the scale of what Kylo did to him either. Kylo continued as a relatively interesting villain even if his reasons for being evil were shit.
Honestly the weakest parts of the film are Rey still being a boring character, the Finn and Rose arc, and Kylo having flimsy motivations for his actions
>>1076Cineshits sucks but cinewins is great and ran by a guy that actually likes movies
Here is my counter to the cinemashits vid
>>1080Oh fuck it's out already?
I thought it was gonna be a weekly thing
>>1082I have no idea what the release schedule is, I just check my pirating site every now and again
Wasn't it only supposed to be like 7 episodes or something like that? Going to burn through it real quick, and the next show doesn't air until December I think. Odd they'd blow their load so swiftly.
>>1080Damn that nigha Obi-Wan really did just shit his pants
He looked like he was about to cry when Vader stepped to him
And Vader seemed outright disappointed that Obi-Wan became such a bitch after 10 years
>>1087>WHILE YOU WERE CUTTING UP SPACE WHALES>I WAS STUDYING THE SABERI watched the first 2 episodes and it's really good
I want Qui-Gon or Natalie Portman to show up
>>1093yeah they are basically insane and see themselves as the only true mandalorians left, purposefully discounting all the other diaspora factions as those who have lost "the way"
ergo why mando always recites that things are "the way", the only way to stay a true mandalorian in their eyes.
>>1097Spoiler
She goes after Luke and tries to kill him to take revenge on Vader, in doing so she realizes she would become the exact same monster Vader is and can’t bring herself to do it, instead she carries an unconscious Luke back home where she tells Obi-Wan she’s just like Vader to which Obi-Wan tells her that the fact that she couldn’t harm a child like Vader did proves they are not the same and she can atone for her wrongdoings>>1098They’re a pseudo-political, pseudo-religious order
>>1105she was like 100 times weaker than vader, tbf
I doubt she could do anything with the force
>>1106well it seemed like their intention was to leave her alive and suffering at the end there
>>1105> why did the third sister not use her force to fight vader?Vader is massively powerful and doesn’t give enough of a shit about Reva to leave himself open and vulnerable like with Obi-Wan
Force users do passive force shields when they fight each other, Reva isn’t strong enough to get through Vader’s
> also wtf, you can stop whole ass planes with the force?Vader is absolute top tier as a Force user, very few are strong enough to do that
His grandson was strong enough as well
>>1106Dark siders are good at cheating death
Maul survived getting bisected
Vader survived becoming paraplegic and suffering sustained burning over his entire body which also scorched his lungs
Sidious survived being electrocuted for several seconds (bad enough he was disfigured from it)
In Legends there was a Sith that was a literal walking corpse that was only kept alive by holding his body together through sheer hatred and was in constant agony
>>1113> literal walking corpse that was only kept alive by holding his body together through sheer hatred and was in constant agonythat's so much edge
who created the dark side? is palpatine the root of all evil in SW? or is there another?
the cool thing about SWs now that i realize is that it's very stream lined and easy to pick-up
there's always a war going on, with a bad empire and good guy rebels
>>1114> who created the dark side?Nobody
The Dark Side is a natural thing, but it isn’t an outer darkness either, and it isn’t neutral it’s explicitly corrupted and explicitly evil
The Dark Side is a specific relationship to the Force, nobody created it, it’s the capacity of people who can use the Force to utilize it towards selfish ends and impose their will upon it
> is palpatine the root of all evil in SW?He’s the root of a shit ton of evil in the story, but not all evil, no; the Sith existed before him, the dark side existed before the Sith, and the problems of the Republic that led to the Separatist movement are largely independent of the Sith
Palpatine was and is an opportunist, the Sith preceding him set up much of the grand plan, the Republic set up a situation that could be easily exploited into a war, Dooku was a Jedi who could be seduced to the dark side and rally many to his cause, the business leaders of the Galaxy could be manipulated into launching a war that would catapult Palps into power, the Force produced Anakin to stop Palpatine and Palpatine’s response was to manipulate Anakin into becoming his puppet
> there's always a war going on, with a bad empire and good guy rebelsWell, it IS Star WARS
However, there isn’t always a ruling empire vs heroic rebels; in Legends most of the wars were launched by a Sith Empire outside of Republic space trying to conquer the Republic, the Clone War was a series of planetary civil wars within a much larger civil war involving the entire Republic, the First Order - Resistance War is the Imperial Remnant invading the New Republic; only the OT is about a rebellion
>>1115>the First Order - Resistance War is the Imperial Remnant invading the New Republic;oh
man i gotta watch the new sequels, they sound cool
they're disney but still
>>1120I HATE THE YOUTUBE BUG
I HATE IT
>>1119>what are gray side users? i feel like i would be gray side userI think communists would be the ones that would democratize the force by making technology that enables everybody to use the force. Darth Marx will give you force gloves and a force belt, and it will be called the prole-force.
Also the commie light saber will have a adjustable length setting. So you can laserswoopchop the entire battle field in one swing.
>>1119> but the non-violence and against calls to action always irked meStar Wars absolutely isn’t non-violent or against calls to action, what are you talking about? The Original Trilogy is literally about an uprising against a fascist government.
> even without his mother dying, a good alternate reality where he creates a jedi empire would be basedWhy?
>what are gray side users? i feel like i would be gray side userCrappy fanfic concept/video game mechanic that significantly simplifies and cheapens the magic system of Star Wars by making it something it’s not despite seeming like it should be
>>1124So you mean communists should write a story that isn’t Star Wars and isn’t remotely similar to it?
>>1123i just finished rewatching the first one, it's okay
kylo ren is the biggest sin i see, he's so fucking annoying and badly acted, nothing he said, felt real
don't like that they killed off Han Solo, humans can't come back as force ghosts rights?
and everyone we saw in the prequels, all those planets, and the entire senate is now just gone? shit's sad
I don't understand how parents exactly go wrong in SWs that they fail their children so hard
where did obi-wan go wrong with anakin
where did leia and han go wrong
how did uncle owen mogg them both so hard
>>1126>Also destiny is real in the seriesmaybe this is the actual problem, they were destined to do that
>>1124>Darth Marx Isn't that a Sith thing? Marx would never
>Also the commie light saber will have a adjustable length setting. So you can laserswoopchop the entire battle field in one swingYeah they should do that, It'd be epic, Who exactly makes the lightsaber in SW universe?
>>1125>Star Wars absolutely isn’t non-violent or against calls to action, what are you talking about? The Original Trilogy is literally about an uprising against a fascist governmentyeah i know that but aren't jedi bascially the good guys of the franchise and they're preaching "oh killing is bad, we shouldn't do that, violence is never the answer"
"the job of the jedi is to preserve life in the universe, not end it"
they were all angry at anakin because he's aggressive and not so merciful
but i get what you mean, there's a difference between passiveness and being full on homidicial
>>1126Midichlorians are a spiritual organism and connect with a spiritual energy, in the story characters literally try transfusing themselves with Jedi blood to gain Force powers and it doesn’t work. The Force isn’t even about special powers, it’s about being able to interact with the energy field flowing from and back into all life; the purpose of being able to connect with that energy field is ostensibly to help life flourish, and plenty of characters have a sort of relationship with the Force without actually being able to use it, such as Donnie Yen’s character in Rogue One
>>1128> yeah i know that but aren't jedi bascially the good guys of the franchise and they're preaching "oh killing is bad, we shouldn't do that, violence is never the answer"Killing is bad and in an ideal world we would not need to use violence to resolve our conflicts with others, but we do not live in an ideal world. The Jedi do not want to take lives, that is true, especially since their abilities allow them to connect on a spiritual and mental level with living things and their suffering much deeper than regular people; however the Jedi still carry a weapon whose every edge cuts and burns, which can maim or kill an opponent with ease. The Jedi do not
want to kill, but they will not hesitate if they must.
> "the job of the jedi is to preserve life in the universe, not end it"Well, yes, but that’s not really a bad position for a hero? Sometimes preserving life in the universe means ending certain lives. Something I find interesting about the Jedi is that we see them fighting pirates, ancaps, fascists, religious terrorists, corporations, and criminal gangs; but we never see them fighting groups like revolutionaries or getting involved in labor disputes to crush down laborers; so I mean, that at least puts them above your average superhero
> they were all angry at anakin because he's aggressive and not so mercifulThey aren’t angry with Anakin, they were pretty lenient with him despite his Sith tendencies. Anakin’s aggression was a severe problem because it opened him up to using the dark side to solve his problems that culminated in becoming Vader, his lack of mercy is a good example of where he was going considering he frequently kills people he doesn’t actually have to, to the point of slaughtering an entire village in revenge and executing a literally unarmed man.
> but i get what you mean, there's a difference between passiveness and being full on homidicialBasically this
The Jedi are not passive, nor are they really pacifists; they just prefer to generally let the people of the Galaxy solve their own problems and avoid taking lives if they don’t have to, which imo isn’t bad
I do think a Jedi civil war over a worker’s movement in the Galaxy could make for an interesting story though
>>1127> i just finished rewatching the first one, it's okayIn hindsight I like the sequels more now than I did when they came out
> kylo ren is the biggest sin i see, he's so fucking annoying and badly acted, nothing he said, felt realI actually rather like Kylo’s portrayal 😅
Only criticism is that I found an, imo, better idea for Kylo online, basically Kylo without Force powers, who hates his father for “cursing” him with being regular, and is a martial artist so honed he can wield a lightsaber without the Force, and who worships Vader due to being fucked up as a Skywalker with no Force abilities
> don't like that they killed off Han Solo, humans can't come back as force ghosts rights?Humans can, but only ones who can use the Force
Han returns in Episode IX but not as a ghost or living person either> where did obi-wan go wrong with anakinHe was too lenient with Anakin and loved him too much to recognize the darkness rising within him
The story of Anakin and Obi-Wan is especially sad because, Obi-Wan taught Anakin everything he needed to know and was a mostly good mentor and father figure; he loved Anakin as though Anakin was his own little brother that he raised, he loved Anakin so much that he didn’t want to get in the way of Anakin’s obvious relationship even if it went against Jedi laws and didn’t want to recognize that Darth Vader was already coming to life in Anakin’s heart for years before Revenge of the Sith
Obi-Wan loved Anakin too much to create the needed boundaries between master and apprentice and too much to want to fully recognize the implications of Anakin’s flaws and do something about them
> maybe this is the actual problem, they were destined to do thatNot necessarily
Destiny is real in Star Wars, but people also have a choice in the matter
Anakin wasn’t just a puppet of fate but an active input who decided his own fate
Same as Luke
All Force users are destined to be force users, but how they use their ability is their own choice
Anakin was destined to destroy the Sith but he chose to become Darth Vader and destroy the Jedi instead
>>1130>MidichloriansCame before MP3chlorians, it was dumb to explain the force, then you have no reason why it can't be studied and converted into technology.
> Jedi is that we see them fighting pirates, ancaps, fascists, religious terrorists, corporations, and criminal gangs; but we never see them fighting groups like revolutionaries or getting involved in labor disputes to crush down laborers.The jedi support literal feudal monarchies. There is slavery in the galactic republic, and the Jedi don't seem to be bothered by that. When they went to get Anakin from Tatooine, his mother was an enslaved moisture farmer, and they couldn't even be arsed to free her.
This slave of yours, Shmi Skywalker, she is's the mother of space-jesus who will bring balance to the force and piece to the galaxy, you will let her go or you'll get the lightsaber >>1134my guess is no because there doesn't seem to be any other story threads to continue on with kenobi, but you never know
the mandalorian seems to be their cash cow more than anything, plus they are gambling with some other stuff like Andor
>>1130That's actually a good idea for Kylo Ren as a parallel for the modern neo-nazi and as the current political commentary
OT about vietnam war
PT about the iraq war
i have no idea what the ST is going for if any
Also you make the Jedi sound cool now, I wanna be one
But I would 100% slaughter whoever killed my mum too like Anakin without any trial, He just went too far killing the innocent too
>>1134>>1137There is near infinite content you can make from Kenobi helping to build the rebellion and fight with the resistance, particularly as it took all those episodes just for him to realise he was still a mad mfucka, in fact, more bad than we’ve ever seen him, throwing around all those rocks etc.
I personally thought that would be a pretty good series, Kenobi organising resistance to Vadar, fighting off these half sith inquisitors
>>1138>your mission was to negotiate an end to the trade blockade >instead they try and kill you, then invade the planet >you secure the leader of the planet and flee>your hyperdrive is broken so you end up on a far out planet where the republic has no influence controlled by gangsters >even though your immediate mission is to secure the princess and find a solution to the trade blockade on naboo, you elect to start a war with a huge gangster syndicate by yourself with limited resources This is why you’re a faggot and would not achieve rank of master
>>1140Jedi x Green Lanterns crossover when?
They're basically the same kind of ancient force
>>1145>Has he had any involvement after the prequels?He tried to give Disney ideas and they just ignored them.
>Will he ever return to SW or filmmakinglol nah he's got so much money, he's so old, and every movie he's made has been savaged by critics. He's out of the game.
>>1152it's
so fucking funny
masterclass in comedy, the expression, the short but apt characterization of these characters so quickly
perfect comedy gold
whoever wrote it needs to come back
>>1155the interviewer was later found out to be a sexual predator as well
>>1154i'm gonna watch howard the duck
i checked his filmography and it says that he wrote for the clone wars show?? wtf, i though the prequels were his last involvement
>>1156>Why is the force used so inconsistently in the newer films, prequels, and especially clone wars series. The entire point of adding power levels to a series is to guarantee consistency - X beat you because their power level was higher. The opposite happened with star wars. The Force isn't just a set of special powers either in or out of universe, there isn't a real linear power progression in Star Wars
>The entire point of adding power levels to a series is to guarantee consistency - X beat you because their power level was higher.t. DBZ fagboy
No, that's how "power levels" work in dogshit shonen anime where fights are decided by "who can punch harder or make bigger explosion"; in Star Wars a character's mindset, understanding of the Force, favor with the Force, and martial arts style can make a difference in a fight
>Why does Obi Wan get rekt by literally everyone, but somehow beats Anakin - he literally lost to Boba Fett when he could have just used the force? I swear to god if anyone brings up the different forms of combat they used, you are part of the problem.Oh boy, another person that didn't watch the movies participating in the thread! Obi-Wan gets rekt by everyone? Have you considered Star Wars just isn't retarded the way Dragon Ball is? Obi-Wan fails to subdue or kill Jango Fett because of the specific skills and equipment Fett had, he could literally fly, and using the Force takes focus, Obi-Wan was using the Force for the entire fight, just not offensively. Obi-Wan defeated Maul as well, he lost to Dooku because Dooku was a duelist on par with Yoda, he defeated Anakin because he literally trained Anakin, knew how Anakin fought, and Anakin himself was insanely arrogant and just plain insane at the time.
>no don't mention muh fighting style!Sorry some stories will give the win in a fight to tactics or fight style comparisons, I know how dumb it might seem to a 13 year old into a story where fights are decided by which aryan with an identical fighting style can punch harder
>Why can Sith lords rag doll people with the force? Why doesn't everyone do it, what is the activation requirement to do it, do you have to be objectively stronger with the force or is it a lapse of focus?The Jedi don't use the Force offensively, the point of the Jedi vs Sith is raw power and rage vs control, skill, and stoicism. Mentally disabled animu fans get really impressed by the Sith because they enslave the Force to torture and murder people (intriguing how appealing aminu fans find this), yet the Sith still always lose, even when there's only one Jedi left and the Sith literally rule the Galaxy they still lose; that's practically the point of the story.
>Why is Palpatine so fucking OP? No really, it's bullshit.He trained in the dark side for 60 years, why is this even a question?
>It's a dog shit poorly explained system that just introduces plot holes. There are objectively good battle systems in manga, but the West only does it right when they make the powers extremely nebulous and more emotionally driven, rather than systemic and internally consistent.Lmao, knew it was a fucking anime fag
Why not go to the DBZ thread you mentally retarded faggot? I'm sure the power system of DBZ is very well explained and deep. The Force isn't a power system, and by now it's pretty well explained, it just doesn't make sense to you because you can't comprehend why the Jedi's abilities don't center around making big explosions and killing increasingly large number of people like the Sith's do, you're like "AHHH, WHY ISN'T THERE LINEAR POWER PROGRESSION, WHY AREN'T THE ABILITIES IDENTICAL, WHY DO FIGHTING STYLES AND PHILOSOPHIES MATTER AND NOT JUST MUH STRONKER OR WEAKER!!!!" Even a lot of anime isn't retarded dogshit like DBZ.
>>1159Lol this entire post is such fucking cope. You can either have a set of nebulous and mystical powers that are character/emotionally driven, or the inconsistent monster it became in the prequels or new movies. Not both.
And for all your hate on anime many series so both (emotional driven) and systemic battle systems far better than SW. There's literally no excuse other than you just want to jerk off over your mediocre canon.
You still haven't answered why people don't just ragdoll them into a lightsaber. The force is never used in any logical way and then holy cope fans justify it.
Also lol at the non existent fighting style if you think soresu or whatever was shown effectively when people were waving sticks around in the prequels you literally have a subhuman IQ.
Star wars babies are pathetic.
>>1160Like my entire point is the force was originally a character and philosophical struggle which made it sick, but power creep and bad ideas in the prequels have turned that entire system into an inconsistent monster.
I'm sorry you fail at simple comprehension.
> It's not linearLiterally undone by the introduction of mitachlorian coutns retard.
>>1161Also lol at > dooku was as good of a duelist as yoda.
If you don't think making a 2ft green monster into an expert duelist was a fucking huge mistake you actually don't understand the thing you are defending. The point was he could overcome his physical limitations with the force not dp backflips around an enemy retard.
Again subhuman IQ who doesn't even understand the implications of a character driven power and then thinks he's justification of it doesn't show his own mental inadequacy.
Fuck you retard.
>>1163The power creep would have never happened if Lucas has an actual vision for the prequels. The reality is that Disney and Lucas had the same motivation, making tons of cash off their protected ip. Each new movie undoes many of the goals of the previous one to appeal to what they think the fans want.
If you hate the Disney movies for being soulless cash grabs you have to hate the Lucas ones for the exact same reason.
Again basic logic and consistency.
>>1160>>1161>>1162Kill yourself anime tarded samefag
The Force isn’t used for special power-ups you uber faggot, Star Wars isn’t your dogshit Naruto or DBZ where no thought goes into abilities
>Muh Lucas didn’t plan the prequels because he wasn’t appealing to muh heckin animefagsNobody should appeal to subhuman weeabo scum
>>1165You realize my entire point so far has been that he tried to animeify it, originally it was philosophical and was muddled in the prequels with nonsense.
Again you're so fucking stupid.
>>1166It's funny that you think liking star wars is less cringe than anime. You're a fucking clown dude, go buy your Vader Funko pop.
Also > no argument
>>1167You’re a fucking retard if that’s what you think that’s what he was doing nigha, you just can’t see out of your pornsick anime vision of media
>>1168Star Wars is less cringe than a media with an entire genre dedicated to pedophiles that is mostly targeted at Japanese manchildren and Anglo autismos
>>1182im not excited for it, but i'm interested in the resistance, revolution aspect of it
like how does one slowly from nothing begin building a party, a military against fascists?
never seen that before
>>1183Also you might enjoy this post
Does a pretty comprehensive look into topics as dispersed as the strategy and tactics of the Rebellion tying it to the class interests of the Rebellion’s leadership
https://www.reddit.com/r/MawInstallation/comments/nfjln4/why_the_rebel_alliance_won_the_first_galactic/ >>1191>>1184what were the byzantine, roman empires like
the forefathers of fascism, colonialism?
andor lowkey better than the mandalorian
>>1193what the fuck i heard james earl jones just retired
>>1203 >N-no Star Wars is just shallow fun. Ok burger
>Muh Neetsch!!! You're boringly obvious theorylet.
>they're just stupid movies with some light Bush-era commentary on democracy.LMAO, read the thread, retard.
>There's no substance. They're just dumb movies. t.liberaldisneyfag.
>>1205nothing. literally said the word manifesto and that's it. also something about the problems relating to the system
anyone else pissed off at episode 7?
it was interesting to see clones as a galactic police occupation force. But i came to realize that Luthen might just be a person whose giddy at the idea of starting a revolution and thats it. got pissed off at his final conclusion in one scene because he was alluding to people already suffering under the grip of the empire and it seemed like he was building up evidence that would help Mon Mothma realize that this suffering was not new and it's already been there(he sort of said this explicitly) but ended the summary in the worst way possible in saying that it was "part of the plan" to make people suffer and see the ways of the Empire, as if to say that the Empire closing its fist is necessary for revolution. although this may just be a character flaw of Luthen as it shows in the show that rebel cells have already formed and are networking and that the people who are not on Coruscant and dealing with the police force first hand have already been taking constantly increasing measures to resist the empire independent of the increased police force. Obviously their measures of resistance will increase much more with the police presence, but it wont be the reason for their sudden want for liberationtl;dr
luthen thinks the war started now because of increasing police presence due to the scale of their robbery antics(pretty cool tbh). Sort of correct, and sort of says that the war has already been ongoing, but concludes it in the worst way possible by explicitly agreeing with a counter argument from Mon Mothma, increased violence is a necessary step for revolution, is "part of the plan". >>1201> Can someone explain how the bit from the prequels where the Jedi are all "there's a SITH LORD amogus" is any different from burgerstanis being paranoid about Obama being a Muslim?Uhhh
Palpatine actually was a sith lord plotting to kill them all and destroy the Republic, and they also didn’t suspect him until it was too late?
> They are literally just mad about the prospect of a religious minority being a politician, except they go so far as to try assassinating him in the movies.He orchestrated a war that killed billions of people and directly threatened to destroy the Galactic government, he was guilty of treason and conspiracy to enact a coup and was actively trying to destroy the Jedi, in addition to being a murderer, traitor, guilty of genocide, slaver, and warmonger; Palpatine was less “a religious minority” and more the official head of an insane death cult
Why do zoomers do this thing where they actively distort what’s written in a literally fictional narrative as if there’s some other way to interpret the events? This shit is retarded nigha
> It would be like if the Secret Service went to the Oval Office and declared Obama a Muslim and thus a threat to democracy and then pulled guns on him.No it’d be like if Obama covertly engineered a civil war that killed tens of millions where he was the official head of the US and also the shadow head of the enemy state which is basically a Neo-Confederate revolt, and he engineered the crisis to become the Fuhrer and kill an actual religious minority (there are only 10,000 Jedi in the Galaxy) to fulfill the objectives of his insane death cult
Because that’s literally who Palpatine is and what he does in the story
>>1188Imo the way I see it the Clone Wars to the end of the Galactic Civil War is really one very long civil war in the Galaxy
The Clone Wars began as a largely engineered civil war playing on actual severe internal problems and exploitation in the Republic, when the engineered portion of the war ended the Empire still had to reconquer the rebellious systems who still believed in the Separatist cause (everyone but Palpatine and Dooku believed the war at face value), this reconquista led directly into the early Rebellion when the former Separatists went underground to become insurgents while the more liberal senators of the former Republic began constructing what would become the political leadership of the Rebel Alliance, this moved into an escalating insurgency which had evolved into all out warfare comparable to the Clone Wars by the time Luke gets involved, with the exception that the fight is between a state and non-state formation (original civil war was two different governments)
You could argue that the First Order - Resistance War is the final reverberation of the original Clone Wars, with the remnants of the old imperial military forming an alliance and trying to reconquer the Galaxy
>>1212nvm fuck sith dooku "peace and order"
love young dooku
>>1216saw gerrera is basically the USA's propaganda depiction of Che
>>1208 >>1206>>1207 Couldn't you have just deleted and reposted your post in full, instead of 3 seperate ones m8?
luthen is fucking crazy. saw gerrera aint even as extreme as him. he views his rebellion as a trap, something he cannot escape from. he has given up the very values of what makes a rebellion burn across the galaxy. friendship, kindship, love? he frames as giving up everything as his reputation his peace. he talks about his ego never being able to be mirrored, to have an audience, to be examined under light. he sees himself as the villain but thats not even the most important part. all his sacrifice has been about his image, his fucking peace. sure he mentions the people's life he's trampled on as a result of his "rebellion" but not as much as in depth as his own fucking self. this rebellion is a power trip for himself, in which he is conflicted between the views of a back to brunch liberal and the liberal projection of a revolutionary terror who is all about bloodthirsty violence. saw gerrera wont ally with anton kreegyr because of a difference of values but luthen is willing to sacrifice his rebel cell of 50 men to "maintain the rebellion". on a surface level this makes sense as it will enact protocol of the empire, but that doesnt even make sense when examined. networks build their strength, their power on connections. the empire responds accordingly. if anything it will make the empire more lax as a sort of anxiety release valve with the squashing of this particular rebel cell. saw gerrera wouldnt exterminate a rebel cell to "maintain the rebellion" but fight and kill them because of a difference of values. but luthen views this as an empowerment to the empire that will show the people they need to rebel. but people already have seen the empire. they dont need a closing iron fist, as he puts it. if anything it would tickle the interest of those with a conscience in his upper class realm of society. people still on the bottom will fight tooth and nail with the very values he feels he needs to abandon. and it will leave him behind, ironically, as people will forge connections while he's too busy doing the empire's jobs for them. an extremist centrist guilty about his rebellion.
a brilliant character. i hope the writers make him a villain. i think they will given the whole emperor palpatine-esque black robes parallel in the most recent episode(10). hell he even looks like fucking sheev himself hopefully the message will be that he will reject these values or other rebel cells will uprise against him. or a more fitting if he does not change would be forgotten by the rebel cause because the empire arrested him and he rots in his cell alone. isolated. alienated. exactly the values he is left with by rejecting love and connection
>>1119WHAT IF Anakin Killed Palpatine and Started a Jedi Civil War? | STAR WARS Jedi Empire What If
Screen Crush
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ6Oy4cdCPo >>1066Clanka says the f word
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kMqRXqi3xg Unique IPs: 119