/anime/ - Anime

>>27153
Frieren's worldbuilding is ass, it's not as bad as Dungeon Meshi but it's still terminally videogamebrained.

>>27154
I feel like calling videogamebrained is insulting to video games. I am not very familiar with Japanese gaming, but at the ones that are popular in the west, such as Fina Fantasy series, have decent writing. This attitude towards art where you openly turn it into an industrial product, no attempt at originality, creativity, artistry, just bunch of tropes mashed together in order to fill airtime as cheaply as possible, seem unique to TV medium. They are Japanese version of CSI spin-offs.

>>27142
which came first, all the breadtuber tier videos about how Frieren is fascism or chuddies running with Frieren is racist

>>27155
No, I mean that it feels like the stories take place in a video game.

>>27154
I hate how half of manga/anime now are set in the same nondescript generic medieval fantasy Europe. The even bigger issue is that the authors all come up with the worldbuilding/politics on the fly so none of it is cohesive because even the author themselves didn't know that the latest relevant city/intrigue even existed until the week the chapter was due and they had to quickly google translate some random word to German for the name. There's basically no depth to it at all like you would find in a properly planned and written story, although a lot of it is due to the brutal timelines and crunch creators have to work with.

>>27167
Yeah this plot exactly, and it's not like you can excuse it with the authors not knowing European history, you can literally just recast East Asian history but with fantasy European characters. A lot of light novel authors genuinely do not plan long term for their works, i've seen fanfictions that are leagues ahead in terms of pacing and plot pay off compared to light novels published in paperback

>>27167
Like how it's all about mana until the new character is introduced whose shtick is that she doesn't care about mana because she has ✨imagination✨?

>>27168
I read recently that one of the reasons many isekai are so formulaic is because they actually did start out as fan fictions, but quickly had to change when Japan's largest ff site decided they'd only host original content. So then you've got all these stories that share so many similarities and conventions because many of them were based off the same work but then had to file the serial numbers off. In particular they were talking about the sub genre of otome villainess isekai so I don't know how broadly applicable this is but I thought it was interesting and explained some characteristics of the genre in general.

>>27170
Honestly English fanfiction sites could be sitting on a goldmine of slop with mass-market appeal that they could much more easily market and sell if they apply similar rules.

>>27154
Are we talking about the sane series?

Tbh my two cents is that the author really fumbled the bag by not making Frieren as unhinged as the demons she's fighting. Like have her kill off entire villages and shit, it makes sense for a long lived being to treat human lives capriciously since from their viewpoint or lifespan are as fickle an ant's, and it would further drive home the point that to be human you have to enjoy life as it goes

>>27184
Frieren is published on a shonen magazine she can't be doing this edgy shit

>>27185
Ehh, Chainsaw Man and JJK are also published jn shonen magazines, and both series have protagonists that are far from being good guys

>>27184
Himmel would not approve of that.

>>27186
Jujutsu Kaisen's main character was absolutely a good guy. Chainsaw Man isn't published in WSJ anymore and it was the manga pushing boundaries of what's permissible.

Does the thing about Frieren's party being named after top Nazis and Eisenhower actually mean anything?

>>27190
Germans who happened to be Nazis had fairly common German names? Shocker. This must be bait but I will continue. There isnt even well known Nazis by names like Himmel, Heiter, Fern, only one I can find is a few with the family name Stark. Many names for characters are just German words that aren't names. Their names are given for their character attributes.
Frieren = to be cold
Himmel = heaven
Heiter = cheerful
Eisen = iron
Fern = distant
Stark = strong
Sein = Be (I suppose this just means his way of living and attitude?)
Kraut = power
I can keep going through every character but the same obvious intention appears for nearly every character name it seems which indicates no intention than the meaning of names and words in German.

>>27191
>Kraut = power
kek, do you mean Kraft?

>>27192
>kek, do you mean Kraft?
I was drunk

>>22465
>>22465
Elon musk is a demon

it is genuinely so tragic that a series as phenomenal as frieren will be remembered not by any of the amazing story beats but by how it handles demons, which is the series' biggest flaw. theyre just so unbelievably boring. macht is the only demon that plays with the idea of demons in an interesting way, every other demon has the same exact carbon copy personality and they feel samey outside of their powers

its crazy breadtube tier shitters have hr long videos diving into the morality of demons in this

>>27552
yeah it's really not that deep, the author just wants some of his dolls to be ontologically evil and get slaughtered by his self-insert elf loli

>>27550
Even outside how the whole moral/ethical angle of it, shit just sucks.
Frieren worked best when it functions as episodic vignettes. Every single attempt at doing longer storylines, including the current arcs, has been complete fucking flubs.

Frieren is boring. The ONLY reason why anyone cares about it is because has a decent budget. The demon thing is discussed because that’s the only interesting topic in this isekai-lite slop.

>>27601
once you get older there's a certain appeal to the "my party is dead" concept from an old elf

>>27602
Bruh most shonen always flashes back to remembering fallen comrades.

>>27649
there's a difference between getting there briefly in chapter 200 after we already met them and had them killed off and it being the central conceit of the story

>>27601
And it is interesting only because of how horrible it was handled.

Currently at episode 6 and like…. it's pretty boring so far. And all the characters have the emotional depth of a blank of wood. Frieren especially seems like a straight up psychopath, how tf do people like the character? Like she cried at Himmels funeral but bitch you literally saw him not to long ago as an old man without any emotional response and now we should believe that bitch that she is capable of crying? Literally at first viewing I thought she was acting lmao

>>22593
True. Anime indeed was a mistake.

>>27845
Probably the reason rightoids like this anime so much. No need to use your empathy to engage with it. That and extreme dehumanizing of the opponent to the level where they are even denied being sentient.

>>27167
>nondescript generic medieval fantasy Europe.
Except it's not because 99% of the time author has no idea what medieval society would even look like, so you have modern society and it's institution but people wear weird clothes (often anachronistic).

Is the show fascist or just the main character?

>>27849
>>22593
>>27876
Can you guys go one day without pathologising anime or any media as fascist for not appealing your sense of media accuracy?¹

>>27876
the main character is justified in her actions within the watsonian context. it's the author's doylian decision of making the demons the way they are which is fascistic.

>>27892
>making the monsters evil is FASCIST you media illiterate CHUD!!!!
No, it's just boring.

>>27892
What about the petersonian context?

Mods!!!! Im a fucking retard for clicking obvious cp bait

>>27951
>devils pretend to be human
omg fascism has existed for millennia

>>27962
Religions are fascist, yes.

>>27963
>transhistoricity bullshit
read marx sometime

frieren is abysmal dogshit but i kinda get why an autist would like it

>>29644
abysmal dogshit huh

>>29644
>i kinda get why an autist would like it
Self-loathing? The irredeemably evil demons are pretty blatantly autism coded.

>>29648
eyeroll.gif

>>29648
I've only seen the anime and not the manga so I can't say if this changes in the manga but the demons are different from a lot evil races I have seen in fantasy. I think the most obvious comparison would be to Tolkien's orcs. Orcs are a cruel, savage race full of hatred of all others including there own kind, they only stop killing each other when facing down a foe they hate even more. Now let's compare that with demon society in Frieren, the thing that keeps demon in order with each other is there mana level, when one demon meets another they instantly know who is the more powerful one and which is the weaker one and thus interaction will happen with both parties knowing where they stand with out the need of bloodshed. And this causes demon society to be hierarchy with the demons with the strongest mana to be on top, this is why someone suppressing there mana would unthinkable to them. Orcs have something similar but they only know who is the strongest through bloodshed.

Now with Orcs there is the question of their humanity. In the books they are mostly treated as fodder for the heros to kill through, but Tolkien gave them some humanity. First with their creation story that they were once elves then later men taken and twisted by Morgoth into these hate filled things. And yet they still have a sense of good and bad, when Gorbag in the Two Towers comments that abandoning a comrade to be an elvish trick, ie something bad. Even Tolkien says they were rational creatures, even if they were heavily corrupted. This caused a serious dilemma for Tolkien because if they were to be treated as fodder and slaughtered with out mercy you would be just as bad the orcs you oppose. And on the other hand if they are rational beings at heart, just heavily corrupted, that leaves the door open for mercy and even redemption.

Now with Frieren the demons are shown to have no emotion and half no understanding of human concepts of right and wrong. With the main character Frieren exposing to show them no mercy and calling for their extermination. They presented as animals with mouths. And yet the story shows there is more to these creatures than under first inspection. Like when Lügner calls Fern's mana suppression a crime against magic, or Aura showing joy and later fear, and the demon child killing the mayor leaving his kid orphaned because a couple in the town lost their kid. The last one in particular is interesting because she is treated as evil when I think she is incapable of understanding human morality and thus incapable of good and evil. I hope the series goes beyond the notion that demons are evil killing machines that don't deserve our pity or mercy and should be all killed. Not just because its problematic and lot of people, mostly on the right wing, use this as a allegory for real world groups of people, but that it would be more interesting. Like imagine for a second we have a group of beings who are incapable of understanding any human morality how would we live with them? Would we force them live in segregated societies or is there a way to integrate them into our own?

Sorry if this was a weird reply these thoughts have been stirring in my brain I just had to get them out.

>>29699
>fear
they show fear to create empathy onto their human ennemy
also they don't have a society,most demons basically never interact with one another unless they need more muscle,they litterally abandon their children at birth,there are no records of romantic coupling
the demon king army was as cohesive as the average skaven army,if they could flee they ran away,if they can kill another demon to claim their victories,they do.
this doesn't even end up sprouting a nonsensical society like the exemple I'm comparing them to,since there is no longer the demon king to rally a semblance of them,it ended up creating a powe vacuum so big they basically returned to the wild and no real leader rose up.
the only connection we know is that despite being monsters,and thus made of mana and just disappearing when dead,they apparently have a soul,but if someone has any idea what that imply I would like to know.
Also they more or less don't interact with each other rather than hurt each other,but we do have an example of one demon betraying another and backstabbing them
and what I say goes to the chapter 122 something so huuuuuuh

>>29699
Good post