These two are supposed to be the Citizen Kane of anime, everyone loves them, yet they are such fucking garbage, literal trash, why are they so fucking bad holy shit.
And I watched it when I was a kid and even then I HATED it, I had a friend who also watched DBZ and he hated it too, even we who were just two little dumbass kids could recognize how shit this cartoon was. And dont get me started on Super.
Naruto is just as bad if not worse, they somehow contradict their own message every god damn time, and have a little privileged retarded kid as the main character who was born with le epic god powers, and never works a day in his life to achieve anything, its all just handed to him
101 posts and 28 image replies omitted.>>10862Also inb4 "muh gary stu"
Kenshiro is not a gary stu at all, you'd know that if you read the manga. He wasn't even the most talented of his masters students and he was nowhere near the strongest for a long while. He failed all the fucking time and the mad max world he lived in prevailed against him time and again.
Also if you think he was just a power fantasy then you don't actually know how or why he was created in the first place. His series was basically a concerted effort by Jump to counteract the actual power-fantasy, wish fulfillment harem / romcom shit that was basically 90% of successful shonen manga at the time.
>>10863>>10862isn't Hokuto no Ken just a Mad Max ripoff though
>>10871Not really, it has the same aesthetic but the story and characters are vastly different.
>>3200It is common knowledge that shounen is the worst genre of anime.
>>11343It's the "I hate shonen" fag, been a long time.
>reason 1 generally shitty animation
Motion blur, cgi(especially bad in the Naruto franchise), re used sprite animations, 2 frame mouth speech, shitty vfx over actual animation and constantly re used backgrounds is a consistent and frequent phenomenon in these shows. This gets especially noticeable considering how drawn out most fights and conversations are in these shows as the animation staff spend hours upon hours simply reusing sprite gifs over actually animating what the characters are saying and drawing out ordinary fights for multiple episodes on end that these animation problems and on occasion animation errors(if you know what the guy vs guy sensei fight was in shuppuden you know what I mean) just constantly reveal themselves if your new to either show. I’m not even gonna talk about the art design of these worlds because some of the characters in these shows look so out of place and so fucking goofy in most scenes that it’s like watching an important cutscene in a video game showing your character wearing BDSM gear
>reason 2 these shows are too long
As mentioned earlier these shows and to a larger extent shines in general stretch out these franchises FAR TO FUCKING LONG. In real life Naruto shippuden doesn’t have 500 episodes worth of actual plot it has 100 or even less of you were to force every fight to a maximum of 5 minutes and every major conflict to a maximum of 1 episode and that’s just for fights don’t forget filler, conversations about nothing, flashbacks that never get developed in the story. As for bleach it’s the same tragic story, especially after the first 60 episodes when the filler and obvious stretching out of the plot starts getting really noticeable because the writer literally didn’t anticipate the show to last as long as it did nor be as long as it was before it got axed. I’ll give one peace a break for being as long as it is though because the writer actually has one really massive fucking world he built over decades unlike *ahem* dragon ball.
>reason 3 everything important is told through sound and not through animation
2d animation is medium that exists for expressing ideas that can’t be communicated with words. Genndy does communication with animation amazingly well in his shows like samurai jack and primal where the pacing makes sense for each episode and you get a sense of what’s going on without needing the characters ranting for dozens of minutes straight about whatever new tactics they’re thinking of. Bleach and Naruto spend so many fucking minutes explaining why you should give a shit about whatever the fuck the characters are feeling or what their new chakra soul power ultra who cares that it becomes mind numbing to the point where it feels like the studios behind these shows think their audience is literally too fucking stupid to be able to understand what’s going on with their own eyes. I liked sasori a lot, I liked sai, I liked yoruichi, but you know what I didn’t like, having some pink haired bitch, or a fucking ginger explaining their pasts to me when I could’ve had a solid episode or at least a few minutes away from the main characters communicating what these characters histories were and why their in the positions they’re all without needing a word spoken
<and finally the most important reason they treat the workers like garbage
Remember what I said about the animation of these shows being shit? I’ll talk more about that but think of this. If a frame of animation takes 30 seconds to produce and you need 24 frames per second than every minute of footage takes 43200 seconds to produce or 12 hours for a single animator under the assumption said animator is drawing 24 frames for every second, in real life you don’t do this because more frames don’t equate to smoother or even animation that better communicates ideas professionals have said this numerous times, this is especially true when producing episodes lasting for dozens of minutes with animation teams consisting of dozens working day in and out to produce what you watch, so what’s the deal? If animation is no where near as tricky nor expensive as it may appear why does it all look like shit you might ask dear reader.
Well the problem is how these shows are fundamentally being made. Imagine a room filled with dozens of isolated artists that are likely middle aged on drugs and exhausted all of the time that are under pressure to work on multiple different projects under strict deadlines that are then told that all of their work must be produced in a certain matter that minimizes production costs as much as possible, your seeing where this is going right? The problem isn’t that these shows can’t be good but rather the conditions these shows were made under prevent them from ever being above average for most of their run time, don’t forget evangelion 1995 was made on a limited budget and still has visibly better animation and 0 cgi compared to the rebuilds made by professional studios simply because the animators were allowed to do what they wanted, same goes for mob psycho which might aswell be the holy grail of sakuga animation. Naruto and bleach aren’t poorly produced animes because the staff behind it lacks skill and resources far from it but because they’re produced with profits in mind away from quality much like most mainstream animation made in states allied to NATO.
dumb frogposter
> animes
>>12194 Not going to talk about Bleach since I didn't really care for that (though this isn't accurate to it either), just Naruto
>shitty animation<Examples: Shit that nearly never happens >shitty vfx over actual animation<Look at dat CGI hurr, so vut if its a TV series on limited budget from 1999? Not to mention that Naruto's animation and art style are considered damn good for most of its run, especially in terms of fights and the hiding of CGI.
>on occasion animation errors<Oh look a brief small animation error of one of hundreds of small-fight and is delegated to the side-animators, that make it bad!!! >reusing sprite gifsThe actual fuck are you talking about? Stop using phrases you don't understand.
>drawing out ordinary fights for multiple episodes on end LMAO Bleach maybe, but you're conveniently ignoring that all fights have at least 2-5 minutes of interaction, and unlike One Piss don't have characters stand and stare at each other for minutes on end.
>the art design of these worlds because some of the characters in these shows look so out of place and so fucking goofy in most scenes that it’s like watching an important cutscene in a video game showing your character wearing BDSM gearNice exaggeration. I'm going to assume you're mostly talking about Bleach because they do have nutty designs, but even then you're making a mountain out of a molehill. If they'd been too conservative you'd be bitching about sameface.
TL;DR: You look at too many meme videos on "muh shonen" and other garbage.
1/?
>>12215Yes.
Animes, mangas, doujinshis, mangakas, etc.
>>12194>stretch out these franchises FAR TO FUCKING LONGTrue, but not to the extent you're making it out to be, faggot.
>In real life Naruto shippuden doesn’t have 500 episodes worth of actual plot it has 100 or even less of you were to force every fight to a maximum of 5 minutes and every major conflict to a maximum of 1 episode<Hurr if you just cut out all the interactions and material that fleshes out the anime you can make it really short I'm not even talking about faggots like you bitching about "rushing things" if the show did squeeze everything into "muh 5 minutes and 1 episode". Funny that this exact shit has made most Shonen anime, especially battle shonen into bland, boring crap that resolves problems and themes in a couple episodes making shit meaningless and boring.
>Muh filler memes Get over yourself. People only bitched about filler because they didn't like that it didn't stick to the manga, nevermind that most filler occurred in the lulls of important arcs. (Bleach is worse in that regard). Many fillers are fairly good in Naruto excluding some single-episodes that are mostly inoffensive.
>conversations about nothingwhere? That's a problem of Slice of Life Moeshit. Yes Shonen anime can have characters state the obvious at times… because it's mostly a direct interpretation of the manga that doesn't have animated segments and has to
sometimes use exposition to carry across the internal thoughts of characters.
>flashbacks that never get developed in the storySee above.
2/?
>>12194>Genndy does communication with animationnon-sequitur and I like that you ignore Genndy having jut as much exposition as any shonen. You can have both, idiot. Bleach does have this issue though, as half the cast is constantly making stoic "cool" faces in nearly every interaction.
>haracters ranting for dozens of minutes straight about whatever new tactics they’re thinking of.Yeah ok you're demonstrating that you haven't watched the show. The longest explanation of tactics I can recall in Naruto takes less than 5 minutes and is AFTER the tactics/plan is demonstrated in full.
>so many fucking minutes explaining why you should give a shit about whatever the fuck the characters are feelingLMAO are you retarded? Or do you no comprehend that anime is a visual-audio media, not pure visual, and that real life people… talk, people don't just rely on facial expressions to communicate
>what their new chakra soul power ultra They don't explain that though, you retard, it's literally the opposite of that since their increase in power is demonstrated and then internal or external exposition by characters enunciate and clarifies what happens, (pic 2 related).
>having some pink haired bitch explaining their pasts to me LMAO Sakura barely ever talks about her past or gets long moments at all. What are you on, must be some good dope if those are your delusions.
>all without needing a word spokenYeah no, You cannot tell a story like Gaara's pain and suffering and not have a word spoken, Moreover in Naruto it is literally a PLOT POINT that characters that connect can understand one another and not use words, but for the audience they speak in their minds, ergo the infamous "Narutoooo" "Sasukeeee" meme.
TL;DR: screaming "Muh words" and again massively exaggerating is pathetic and demonstrates your autism.
>>12229Lolis and lolicons.
>>12194>they treat the workers like garbage<Did ya know in Japan, a capitalist country that is famous for karoshi and horrifically overstrict and toxic work culture in every single industry and job, also abuses animators!? Yeah, no shit they treat laborers like trash, they treat most of the population like that, same in Korea and China, it's part of a deeply ingrained workaholic culture in Far-East Asia. There is an entire THREAD dedicated to this topic IN DEPTH if you bothered to check catalog
>>617 Disregarding this, the statement is also an utter nonsequitur as a criticism of shonen in general and Naruto in particular, if you didn't notice. I'd also point out that this overwork impacts the creators of the manga just as it does their underlings, thus Oda is sick all the time, Yamaguchi becoming ill and dying, and Hunter x Hunter and Bleach being on indefinite hiatus until recently.
https://archive.is/WIVcm >>3871More like a mix of both - expanded more in the BNHA thread
>>3215 is one of those people who go to the same Ghibli movie screenings 500 times.
>>12236>>3231Thisis why I say that all good TV/book series/music bands never last more than ten years.
Because in ten years, your artistic sensibikities are changing. What may have worked a few season ago wouldnt be so epic is tried again.
>>3216>better than OG DB+DBZ combined. DBS is awesome every arc. LMAO nice bait lol
>>21074The combination of it beeing over the top and taking itself to serious does make it pretty funny
>I shadows boxxed to hard that i created a tulpa of a 2m tall praying mantis >I trained for 10 years and know my muscals are so big that bullets cant hurt me no more >>21074I liked reading it ironically,wouldn't waste my time watching the CGI mess that's the animated version.
>>21080Yeah, like more meme anime, its only good in the memes
>>21083 >thisbasically
>>3200>These two are supposed to be the Citizen Kane of animeSince fucking when
You know that anime's more than battle shonen right
>>18932 is one of those dudes who's basically the otaku equivalent of an MCU simp who gets mad at filmbros for existing
>my shitpost from over 3 years ago is still alive
holy crap
>>21742I feel the same way for a lot of my old OPs. I'm still kinda impressed the Star Trek thread is still up, if at bumplimit.
Is there any other special attack that goes harder than the Kamehameha?
>>21753That's more of a post for the actual Dragon Ball thread, this is the Shonen HATE thread.
>>21758Don't try and dodge the question
>>3200>the Citizen Kane of animelmao, what? More like the superhero movies of anime.
>yet they are such fucking garbageWell, duh, read the manga.
>>22782>More like the superhero movies of anime.Dragon Ball and Bleach maybe, but Naruto? One Piece? they're nothing like superhero movies.
>>3200>These two are supposed to be the Citizen Kane of animeNobody has ever said this
People who hate DBZ and people who love DBZ should read the original Kid Goku Arcs. It's superior to Z in every way
Unpopular opinion: most of the Boruto hate is because of nostalgia bias.
All the criticism against Boruto are the same flaws found in Shippuden.
Power scaling? That was in Naruto.
People complaining about aliens and tech when they had that in Naruto
Also, Boruto has an interesting new cast of characters. They didn’t just rely on the main character.
But people wanna compare the new kids to their parents far too much.
The people who complain about Boruto focusing far too much on the main character are the same people who glaze Sasuke and Naruto, wanting them to be the main focus in the generational sequel.
>>3205Naruto focused primarily on the main character and his social interactions with his fellow shinobi.
Sasuke was the only other character to be given a good chunk of screen time other than Naruto.
Everyone else was cannon fodder for the plot
>>3212>Bakugou is also a bad rip-off of Sasuke in many regards as well as a waste of character. he has the potential to be a villainous hero with his attitude towards other people who are weaker and his murderous intent. Honestly it's a waste, what with the diverse powers and characters like Stain and the recently defeated Yakuza. It's why I dropped the series outsideBaku go was supposed to be an asshole friend rather than a villain.
Also, Todoroki is more the proper analogue to Sasuke, being born in a perfectionist family and having clashed with the main character before finally seeing sense and becoming a good friend
>>3235Shota fags are more into kid Naruto and kid Goku
Unique IPs: 27