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/anime/ - Anime

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 No.617[Last 50 Posts]

Discussion of the way that Animators are treated in the Anime industry. Firstly. why are animators treated like shit? Why don't they try forming unions? You're thoughts on this whole Animator Dormitory project? How can the West (I'm assuming that most of Bunkerchan is yankees and eurofags) help?


For as positive as Animator Dormitory project is, taking a look at its gofundme page isn't inspiring. I feel spoiled, but all it amouunts to is housing assistance and job training. Something that even a yankee can expect to be provided by the government or an employer. Not that housing assistance is usually provided by an employer, but there has been a history in which employers would provide housing (free of charge or a rentier.) Corporate dormitories carry more a stigma in the West, but I believe they might be prominent in Japan because employees tend to stay overnight.
Japan seems to have a union presence, but it's been on the decline. I remember reading that labour unions are beneficial to Japanese productivity, so that could be indicative of Japanese unions' collaboration with the bourgeoisie.



What is sad is how many of these animators and mangaka die young, and often of suicides. Or they damage their hands or their eyes trying to meet the strict deadlines and can no longer work on their craft.

I think it'd be cool to marry an artist and be able to financially support that person in return for feeling like you subconsciouly affected a piece of art and would leave a legacy.


Asian Boss is pretty reactionary but they did a cover of an animator who did work for BNHA and other popular shows and she described the tough living. Its played as a joke in To-Love Ru with Rito's father being an over-worked Mangaka who is never home.


> Why don't they try forming unions?
A South Korean socialist on r*ddit was talking about how they legit send death squads to your house if you try to organize. Maybe nips have something similar.


Not really, but when they unionized and striked in the 70s, the companies simply outsourced the job to SK since the Japanese laws prohibits hiring scabs. Animators have no bargaining power and are one the most exploited categories of workers in the first world, despite technically being professionals.
KyoAni is the only good anime company and some schizo decided to burn it all down, fuck.


Can we use the poor treatment of animators to redpill western anime fans on labor rights and unions? Drives me insane how many of those fuckers piss and moan about the poor treatment of animators while being right wing shitheads who overlook the exploitation of labor they support in America.


We've tried they just think they deserve it. People were rubbing their hands in glee on /a/ when Kyo-Ani was burning.


>Be the only Japanese political party against big business and US occupation
>leader gets assassinated by some schizo
>Be the only Japanese animation studio treating workers well
>Gets burned down by some schizo
Really makes you think.


They were? I remember the opposite. But my memories of /a/ are a bit blurry.


I remember going between // and /leftypol/ and the /a/ fags were caught between cheering it on, and talking shit about how KyoAni took too long to release Seasons. Few of them were remorseful or saddened past their own selfish desires.


The people celebrating it were just being contrarian assholes like always. There's no doubt that was an opinion on /a/. Nonetheless, KyoAni still recovered despite the huge loss of life.


Wow, that's hard to believe. I can't imagine the /a/ I left in 2014 would have gotten that bad. /a/nons were shitty, but not like that.


>4,939 McDonald's Employee Salaries. McDonald's employees earn $20,000 annually on average, or $10 per hour, which is 106% lower than the national salary average of $65,000 per year.
>CG animators make almost as much money as McDonald's workers.


In Japan is more convenient to work part-time in a konbini than to be an animator.


Well, I do remember them being that shitty when the big earthquake hit Japan.



Eh, its like /pol/ and other boards; the constant anti-PC dogma and tendency of social isolation and shit-talking spiraled into a shitshow


On the subject of Asian interview channels
That Japanese Man Yuta is neat.


It's interesting that the most popular shows in that video are all things I've never heard of.


Mods have sucessfully purged board culture from /a/ years ago, combined with the surge in popularity of animu and election tourists have made the board a shadow of it former self.


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>all this bitching about CP and other freedom-shit
&ltnobody talks about the animators and how they live


What effect does piracy online have on animation industry and the animation workers?
What's the correct practice on this?


Piracy affects the companies profits, the animators don't lose or gain money whether you buy the products or no.


Is it befitting for the communists that want the animators to have better working circumstances to refrain from piracy?


While I don't bother pirating, I don't pay for anything either.
It does NOTHING to help animators, and only gives the corporations who exploit them more money to do this exploitation. They're paid wages for their work (shitty wages but still wages) regardless of whether X or Y anime makes a profit.


think of anime was a product, just like anything else. workers are expected to manufacture that product by a certain time frame and their financial compensation, whether it is on a per-hour, per-project basis, or otherwise, is accounted for before the profits even start to come in.


Animators aren't working in terrible conditions because of piracy, shill.


If I might interject for a moment, piracy is the theft of material goods on the high seas, often involving murder. Unauthorized copying is not piracy, it's simply reproducing information.


Hacking is cutting something apart with wild swings so illegally entering another account or site is simply opening closed off information

It's slang names that came into common use m8.


Now you're confusing hacking with cracking! "Software piracy" was an attempt by idea monopolists to conflate humble data reproducers with cutthroat murders on the high seas. Continue to conflate the two at your own peril.


shut up stallman, youre legitimately autistic


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>be animator
>one of the most talented people on planet
>paid like shit
>no one knows your name
>can't even find a picture of you on google

>be seiyuu

>muh tits
>cancerous leech
>everyone loves you
>countless interviews


This is an unavoidable consequence of the market and animators can't do much about it except unionize and strike, which likely won't end well for them. What's interesting is that this seemingly has resulted in no consequence for the anime industry as a whole. You'd think eventually you'd just have a labor shortage.


Because it's far easier to put a face to a seiyuu than one to an animator. Same reason people gush over actors and directors while ignoring every other aspect of a film that people have to make.


rofl why did you copypaste the other thread here


>more of the same cope
Because your pointless thread is pointless and belongs in an already existing one. Hence the repost, and hence actual responses. sagеd for stupidity


It's the way of capitalism
Workers, artisans and peasants do the labour and creativity while the face of the product gets everything.


Man, why did that guy destroy that manga?
It didn't even look shit


Because consumerism -> wastefulness. There's a meme video where guy in a seagull mask is lying on the ground by a window and the camera-holder is throwing bread with "funny commentary:, 1 slice, 2 slices, 10, a whole fucking BOX of bread slices, enough to cover the person's upper body in bread slices… I don't think it was stale bread either.


It's because the girl on the first book's cover was implied to not be a virgin. No joke.


…sauce?! I need to know the details of such autism.



This is the power of virgin inceldom… top kek


Japan has unbelievably bad worker culture, despite having actually a not completely shit safety net. Also the legal system is hellish so if you piss enough people up you're guaranteed a sentence, given their 90%+ conviction rate (I've seen it quoted as high as 99%), this is a powerful disincentive towards doing radical stuff.

In the case of animators it's worse, like the games industry, which since they are seen as doing their "dream job" and as such are easily replaceable by some starry-eyed newbies. No parties either, the JCP is barely socdem at this point, and student activists (the remainder of the zengakuren) are literally spied on by the secret police 24/7, despite being totally irrelevant.


too many young idiots dream of working in manga/anime, labor shortage is almost impossible


>given their 90%+ conviction rate (I've seen it quoted as high as 99%)
isn't this because prosecutors only choose to go forward with cases where they know they can get a conviction?


Maybe so, I'm checking this article for source now: https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/c05401/order-in-the-court-explaining-japan%E2%80%99s-99-9-conviction-rate.html

>Take, for example, the investigation process. Suspects are denied access to a lawyer while being questioned in order to squeeze a confession out of them. Courts even allow the practice. There is also a heavy reliance on documentary evidence that creates a pretrial air of guilt that can influence how a judge tries a case.

geez that's hellish

>Naturally the prosecution goes to great lengths to ensure that criminals get their just deserts, but in doing so they also exercise a high degree of discretion in deciding which cases to pursue. Public prosecutors typically concentrate on suits where conviction is almost guaranteed, leading to the suspension of around 60 percent of criminal cases in Japan without an indictment.

yep, you're right

>The prosecution has too much authority and the defense has too little. This would not be the situation if Japan had a bona fide adversarial system, but the fact of the matter is that the balance of power in Japanese courts is skewed.

in the end you're just about fucked if the prosecutor decides you're guilty, which is, erm, not exactly good. No wonder Phoenix Wright's bullshit 3 day trial system is a satire of the japanese legal system.


Makes sense TBH
>unbelievably bad worker culture
Comes from a historical culture of class-collaboration and hierarchy worship as well as autistic adherence to rules.


Didn't the USSR also have this high of a rate of conviction?


Can anyone actually claim that Crunchyroll, for all the problems it has, hasn't done more for animation workers than the prior unfavorable situation of rampant piracy?
The Japanese companies had even said that piracy was one of the main problems that were detrimental for the industry?


nah, piracy is pretty much a non-issue for the anime industry because most of their revenue is from being paid ads for books and selling crappy dvds/bds, which only people who really want to support the medium bought, since they're very expensive. crunchyroll just kinda colonized the fansub culture and raised some revenue out of it, but it's still afaik quite negligible in the scheme of things; netflix might be more relevant, given they actually have capital to invest


No, not really. Crunchyroll exploits workers as much as any other company.
>muh piracy
Piracy has NO impact. Why? Because they're given a set wage for the work they've done. Whether or not sales go well has no impact on their wages as the profits (and losses) go directly to the companies and owners. It's why Mangaka are functionally better off, given that they do get Royalties off of a product, while animators typically do not, as anime royalties go directly to the company and "trickle down".
>Japanese Companies said
Japan is a well organized place and all, but their bureaucrats are largely scumbags, they don't like losing profits but that alone won't appeal to people's sense of justice.

No. It's just when you have a population reaching into the hundreds of millions, the number of criminals will still be higher in number. Proportionally the ratio is much smaller compared to Japan or the USA. Moreover the Soviet system didn't tend to have long prison terms, so a conviction had less impact typically and even then, a formal conviction would be given but informally waived with a warning for minor transgressions like hooliganism and other stuff.


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The very fact that Japan produces a dozen faceless forgotten anime every year that last only a single season and are just cheap cashgrabs rehashing popular products of the past shows how animators are abuse, and why animations are lazier and less detailed than in the past. All this because capitalism takes the most creative people and forces them to make the same old standardized bland shit for a guaranteed profit.


Rampant piracy is what made the anime industry what it is. Crunchyroll and perhaps to a lesser extent Funimation are parasites cashing in on decades of uncompensated labor on the part of the scanlation community.


It's in the industry's interest to blame media piracy for all of its woes. It is a complete non-issue when compared to wages and benefits (or near lack thereof).


Like the fact most animators are paid in what are essentially piecemeal wages is incredibly more fucked up than some streaming service headquartered an ocean away trying to hold on to as many licensed anime as they can.


Every time I watch anime, any anime, no matter the animation quality, I just can't stop thinking about the animators, tho ones who had to do all those drawings, one by one, manually.


It's especially impressive with anime from the 2000s and older, which were hand drawn rather than computer animated.

Piracy has nothing to do with it; writers and comic book artists don't get paid according to what is sold, they're essentially selling a set commission with royalties. The only people really losing money from pirating are the actual corporations who own the actual comic properties, and they're all filthy rich anyway


I'm actually really drawn to anime from the late 90s and early 00s; early 3d composited films and shows have aged surprisingly well.


Other than the Berserk film, yes that's quite true.
As a side note,wWhile AoT has never been my cup of tea (the manga is a walking meme), I can't deny that the animation there is spectacular.


>Like the fact most animators are paid in what are essentially piecemeal wages is incredibly more fucked up than some streaming service headquartered an ocean away trying to hold on to as many licensed anime as they can.
no that's fucked up in about equal measures, the people that make the art pieces should be the ones controlling it, not some quartered head full of licenses.


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Not quite about animators but translating companies and their utter abuse of property possession.
LN translations with companies such as Yen Press (YP) are infamous for how awful they can be. If a property is licensed, all the fan translations will be taken down and almost assuredly stopped. So you'll be waiting about a decade for new content to hit our side of the world. On top of this awful wait-time, they also fuck up the translations.

Example: No Game, No Life produced by Yen Press https://archive.is/WSnJ8 (it was later re-released with corrected translations, but still localized ones). They did the same shit with Overlord as well, censoring and castrating the work. I'm not even a fan of the show but if you're gonna sell a property, have the mindfulness to keep it legit. Mahouka Koukou No Rettousei is another good example. By the time they catch up to the raws and even the last fan translated volume, it'll be the 2030s. The same thing happened to Full Metal Panic, being translated by Tokyopop only to just drop off and vanish.

Often the biggest problem is that they never start on series with a few volumes but instead wait for popularity, ensuring they have people interested (which they then proceed to ignore and instead localize), and hit DMCAs before they even produce their first books. They drop series when it's not profitable for them, but continue to sit on the licenses until everyone gives up on them. Sure the author will earn 'something' as long as they hold rights to their own story if you buy form them but businesses work on business models first, individuals last, so for sites like these the biggest cut would go to the publisher it was hosted by, and then the author afterwards. The trick is always hidden in the contract agreements signed. Also there's no way that they don't take some of the work that's been translated for free. As I'm sure there's someone lazy enough in their group to just grab work that's already done, alter it slightly then release it.

6 years ago Yen Press acquired rights to HS DxD and proceeded to crackdown on bakatsuki, thankfully the fancontent was saved onto another site and continues to update, even as the fourth Volume has only just gotten to print as of July 2021, 10 years after fan translators did so. It's often very hard to go underground nowadays especially for DxD. Idiots exist after all, you go underground and some ass will expose it and it'll be taken down again. Before long, you'll see the translators give up and the end no more fans translation for that series. That's how fan translation completely disappear after getting licensed. Moreover, if they don't sell in your country or care to translate to non-English languages, you're fucked completely.

The way they (illegally) force some fan translators to take down their projects when they only have a license to release their things on "SPECIFIC REGIONS" (specifically North America and Great Britain) is enough to earn my dislike. Legally, they don't have the rights to take down fan translations from let's say… Indonesia, only from North American countries/Britannic ones, they don't have an European/Asian/African/South American license*. That's how licensing works, not that it matters to them…
*Exceptions to the rule are some big properties like Spice and Wolf that are licensed under World English for Territories.

Ironically they sell their digital goods to most European countries using the same "legal limbo" since their servers are "located" on the US you "agree" to use such service "on the US" until somebody else "licenses it" in your territory and such publisher "decides" to force them to "interrupt" their sales on such territory.

Say you're from a country that cannot get access to world-wide credit cards as it's the case of some South American/Asian countries, you get stuck "cannot acquire it "legally" but cannot read it illegally" that's basically what happens when you ain't lucky enough to live on a first world country.

Yen Press isn't exactly Kadowaka's property. They can get backed up by Kadokawa (51%) all of their Licences specifically establishes the rights for edition/distribution on certain regions (regardless of the language in most cases) so Yen Press cannot (really) DMCA outside the regions where they hold the rights for publishing… or regions where the DMCA ain't even a thing, doing so would actually make them infringe original publisher/author's DMCA terms, especially with loopholes of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

Arguments used by rather bot-like defenders of Yen Press is that fan translators and readers are "Leechers that can't even bring themselves to support the author financially" as if that was the problem. Also it's argued that bad fan-translations that are "overly literal" (despite most fan translations always having annotations that clarify content) and which supposedly makes "Japanese "sounds" like tortured, awkward English". This is in spite of massive grammatical differences in Japanese and English from how kanji differ from an alphabet of letters. This means that unless massively differentiated from the original text, the translation will inevitably be janky, or otherwise lose the idea being carried across. Of course these same people also tend to say "just learn JP or fuck yourself"

A translator also explains why mistakes occur, why fan translators are not employed and why it takes so long boiling down to Jap bureaucracy and general capitalist paper-pushing https://archive.is/NxB2e

As alternatives, support translator blogs like Baka-Tsuki and use Wuxiaworld which is pretty much the online chinese version of Yen Press.


Opinions on this article? https://archive.ph/LIXxT


I'm sure it's not piracy's fault if people working in the anime industry are underpaid and overworked.


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It all starts at the drawing board OP. Your right CGI isnt hard or expensive to make to look good considering fucking children with blender can make realistic assets with fundamental shapes and image textures, the main problem with these shows is that the animators dont give a flying shit at all about what they're making, no one is taking the time to learn the software they're using, no one is taking healthy shifts that allow the animators to produce their craft with good leading to rushed projects made on strict deadlines like what happened with BioWares anthem, no one is giving a shit to go over any errors or bugs made using CGI because there isnt time for that, and there is definitely no one going through the assets to provide detail and polish and likewise you have a colossal 3d mess filling up the screen and breaking your sense of disbelief and triggering the uncanny valley effect. These shows dont have to look like shit, the problem is that the people producing them wont allow the developers enough time or even proper conditions to do their jobs correctly and this horrendous work ethic is an apparent problem in much of japan as a whole which is why innovation has stagnated their for years now.

To picture what your typical japanese animation studio looks like imagine a room filled with hordes of single men and women in their late 20s to fucking 90s that are all on drugs trying to produce entertainment products that appeal to the approval of millions of people worldwide in the timespan of a few months where every stage of development is handled in a couple days and everyone's working shifts to long that the idea of seeing your coworkers straight up collapse from exhaustion or get mental illnesses from stress is a normality. In that kind of environment I'd be surprised if any type of media even gets produced in japanese firms.

Their effort is being driven by their love of animation on a general basis anon. Japan isnt like the animes and what I described about your typical animation studio in japan can be applied to most private and public sector institutions throughout the country as a whole. It's kinda like "I know my situations awful but everywhere else is even shittier" type of situation and ultimately these artists can find some type of enjoyment in their craft


>Looking over the thread yet again
Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of Rum


Good point, but like the CIA using "Conspiracy Theorist" as a way to discredit whistleblowers, we still lack a terminology as a replacement in common jargon.


Not quite relevant but I can't locate the post discussing fandom.wiki whoring out to Phonefags with it's new desktop config (if anyone finds it, please reply with a link)
Temporarily you can return to the old site using ?useskin=oasis at the end of a URL so for example: https://highschooldxd.fandom.com/wiki/Short_Stories?useskin=oasis



Damn I got neat trips


>Anime piracy is ruining the anime industry, and creators are missing out on receiving more money.
>Piracy is making the conditions of working in the anime industry brutal, tough, and unfair.
False. Even if anime piracy wasn't huge, the industry would still be shit, creators would be receiving roughly the same amount of money, and animators would still be exploited under brutal, unfair conditions. This propaganda is a shitty excuse that capitalists use all the time to hold their workers hostage and make us believe that we are fully responsible for whatever happens to them.
>There’s no excuse for pirating anime online.
A large amount of people who pirate anime have a pretty good, undeniably valid "excuse": they're poor. And those who aren't poor or that could afford to watch anime legally, but still pirate it, also have a pretty good reason: they simply don't want to spend money on anime. Under a system where money exists and is so essential, such as capitalism, isn't that natural? After all, the system is what forces people to become criminals who need to steal to get what they otherwise can't have. Other reasons may include preservation of old series or movies that can't be obtained through legitimate means anymore (see: that video essay that defends video game piracy), or because official services are inferior to what fan groups offer through pirating (for example, things the article correctly pointed out as problems that drive people to pirate anime, like several different platforms having different shows or licensing issues, which are also symptoms of the system). But there's also the fact that entertainment, media and culture should be free for everyone. Which ties into the next point:
>And morally – it’s just not the right thing to do.
The article never once questions this "universal morality" that we're all supposed to adhere to. Why is it considered "immoral"? Because it's illegal. And why is it "illegal"? Because you're depriving capitalists of their precious profits: "if you don't pay to use or see the thing my workers made using my means of production, but take it anyway, you're a thief because you're stealing from me" (even though, as stated in a study that the EU commissioned and then suppressed*, piracy in most cases has an insignificant or non-existent negative effect on profits). And why are things this way? Because of the cruel and inhuman system we currently live in, where everything is about getting more money, restricting the people's access to education, culture, entertainment, etc. in the process (not even including the basic necessities of a human being). If anything, pirating anime, or any other piece of media is ultimately the right thing to do, morally (of course, anime is not that important, so this may sound ridiculous to some. There are more important things to pirate, like textbooks for school.)

* https://www.engadget.com/2017-09-22-eu-suppressed-study-piracy-no-sales-impact.html


thanks for the response and breakdown!


Thanks for reading and you're welcome, I hope it's not a brainlet take though
Here's the video about piracy/emulation I mentioned, to share with your non-leftist friends


Fuck, actually I think it was this one. But both are probably good.


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>"Get in the cubicle Shinji. Or Rei will have to work overtime for the third weekend in a row."
>btw a giant big titty'd perfect waifu will one day magically appear and unconditionally love you forever
>Don’t think about it! Just have baby! Have baby, work miserable job, and serve masters! Touch grass and everything will work out! Magical fairytale ending!
<Haha my totally-not-rip-off of Haruhi's world reboot is a final resolution to Evangelion
This movie series was just a response to the malaise among young men in japan tired of being salarymen. The problem anno has here and where he failed in this laughable endeavor is the same problem Japanese society has overall: you simply haven't provided enough of an incentive to justify this soulless lifestyle. You can imply it's supposed to be "rewarding" but what is the actual reward? If "rewarding" just means "you'll feel good that you did a good job," that's not a reward. That's just an empty platitude. It pretends to be nuanced and just ends being MORE escapism, as well as other shit. Fuck 4.0 and have mercy on the souls of the over-worked fools forced to make that awful CGI.


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>I don't know what I worked so hard to get into this company for.
>Why do we, the employees, have to stay up all morning every week, week after week, week after week, fixing dirty original drawings and videos that were outsourced from freelancers or from overseas?
>That's one of the reasons why I decided to quit.


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>Corporations squabbling about merchandise and small profit losses
>Use idpol and appeal to social media for their corporate bitch-fit
<Meanwhile animators are still ignored and continue to make pennies
Stunning priorities innit?


><Haha my totally-not-rip-off of Haruhi's world reboot is a final resolution to Evangelion
Funny that Haruhi's main cast is based on the main cast of Evangelion and later the influence went the opposite side.


It'd be funny if it didn't come off as so pathetic. Evangelion had its resolution, Anno should have just ignored otaku fans and stuck to his other projects (but he's a hypocrite, so it's inevitable).


Recent update on DxD LN, an anon found a fuck up in the translation (as is predicted). It's a small mistake but the point stands.


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>*blocks your path*
Illustrious Gem was kinda shit, but most of their productions are good.


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>It all starts at the drawing board OP.
Context: old dead thread talking about
>Is there an explanation as to why so many 3d animes or animes with CGI look noticeably fucking awful? I cant possibly fathom as to how any individual can fuck up so badly on aesthetics when it comes to anime as westerners already can make plenty of 3d cartoons that look just fine with good art styles, hell even for individual artists making good looking CGI isnt hard as your essentially getting 3d squares and triangles with images stretched on them to move around a screen for several minutes and artists like Ian Hubert have proven that large budgets for good looking graphics is far from difficult or expensive, so what gives?
For anyone looking to see good 3DCG Miraculous Ladybug and the 2019 Lupin III film are good examples of good 3D anime.
Also >>10169 and Aya and the Witch (Ghibli).


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I found some info on how much animators and artists working at Disney made, roughly $45-60 per hour, just for comparison. Although this isn't a huge amount for the West coast, it is many times more than their Japanese counterparts, and higher than even unionized roofers and constructors get. With the growing popularity of anime on the world stage and movies like Your Name grossing over $190M, we see animators, who are the backbone of this industry getting paid less than minimum wage. How do Japanese animation studios keep attracting young people to become animators and keep churning out great animations every year?
>Laura Price - Disney artist:

Additionally Karoshi (pic related) is very prevalent in animation and manga. Even popular Mangaka like Eiichiro Oda nearly die from insane work schedules.
>Underpaid and Overworked: Being an Animator in Japan | ASIAN BOSS
Another video on YT mentioned that animators made around $6 an hour while other sources also suggested that they made $1 per frame. While this seems a lot more than $500 per month mentioned in the first video, its still very little and having been to Japan I know its a very expensive country to live in.
>The Anime Man:

https://archive.ph/uvARN suicides of mangaka

According to this Vox article a big part of the problem stems from structural issues in the anime industry going back to the 1930s.


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The CG for Prince of Tennis looks good (the character kinda resembles a GenderBent Samsung-chan).


not really surprising we end up with 4+ years of hiatus for certain series with those schedules,burn-out is a serious disability.
I think even monthly schedule are sometines stupid with ~40 pages by chapter,but weekly schedules are absolutely insane.


>I think even monthly schedule are sometines stupid with ~40 pages by chapter,but weekly schedules are absolutely insane
Amen, Oda found a decent balance at 1 chapter per 2 weeks, but even then he takes month+ breaks after a certain time period to not fall ill.


Wtf I had no idea there would be a Prince of Tennis CGI film. I gotta watch that anime already. Looks good.


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Yeah it does look good, and I've noticed that other than CBR almost nobody really does reporting on these upcoming anime movies and stuff.

Speaking of 3D projects that people are missing there is an Ultraman anime series going on a second season that basically nobody even seems to be aware of. >>10386


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The manga/anime industry is inherently anti-art because the creators are incentivised to milk the fuck out of their series untill no one cares about them anymore - even to a more extreme degree than the Hollywood franchises and TV shows. I'm sure you could find a good story in most mangas, the problem is that it's buried under the 95% unnecessary bullshit and it lacks the proper execution because it's created under a lack of time. The deadline driven nature of comics prevents them from entering a higher level of art.


Post is literally: Anime industry [read capitalism] leads to non-artistic products, as money > art for creators, just like any other mass media (movies, tv series, etc.) because pragmatism and greed over-rule artistic expression or actual effort in execution due to the time/budget constraints on artists.


Speaking of 3D
Land of the Lustrous:
A somewhat unreal land inhabited by girl-coded humanoid crystals. We follow the misfortunes of the youngest and weakest of the bunch as she goes through a year of personal growth and transformation through interaction with her fellows and various invaders.

There's enough personality in the myriad crystal themed characters to keep you empathizing, and enough weirdness to the world to keep you trying to figure it all out. Comes together for a tight mix of high-concept far-out setting with low-concept focus on character development and interaction. It's 3D animation, but here it rather helps to give everything a more alien tinge.


>Among the accusations is that the company owns 4chan
LMAO, that place really has gone from "anonymous hacker 4chan" to a mainstream part of capitalist social spheres.


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On the topic of Crunchy Roll and exploitation of animators. It's a fairly uncontroversial opinion that High Guardian Spice is unoriginal trash >>11233
But more importantly it's a demonstration of Crunchy Roll clearly not using the money donated or paid by subscribers for their claimed purpose of giving animators direct sources of cash. As a reminder CR was a pirate anime site, that somehow managed to secure legal rights to stream anime officially. To do this they sold themselves as the site people could pay to support the actual producers of Anime. This resonated with the people and the new found customers gladly paid for the chance to support the producers of anime. CR straight up sucks as a streaming service. The flash player sucks, licensing issues if you're not in the US, and suberrors. Moreover people (normies mostly) subscribe to Crunchyroll to stream anime, so they have every right to complain if it diverts money that could be used for that goal in order to make a non-anime show that isn't even creative or properly made.

Shills for CR try to point at Netflix and fail: The reason people don't get too mad at Netflix is because at least at its core, Netflix is a good streaming service that offers and even FUNDS a lot of anime (LWA, Devilman Crybaby, etc). They use their subscription funds to make new series (not just anime) that can be hit or miss, but at least they're trying. Netflix isn't a niche stream service like Crunchyroll, it can make anything it wants because it streams anything it wants. Heck I don't even mind flash player but it's outdated and not supported by most browsers anymore. If you have to download a video to see it, might just torrent instead.

Hell it's not even an issue if they make a cartoon… as long as it's actually GOOD or creative like their first animated product Onyx Equinox. But when you market it in any way that isn't highlighting what you created and just congratulates it for having an all-female staff, it's just pandering and since the actual product sucks, it's exploitative virtue-signaling. It's elephants painting on a canvas. you market the elephant but the art is still crap, the elephant isn't to blame, it's the retards trying to make it into something it isn't. Women have written, drawn and worked on MASTERPIECES in every element of art and popular culture and have done so for centuries! so everytime you hold something up and say "see, see! look what women can do! women can do it too!" most people just roll their eyes and say "this probably sucks" because when something is damn good you dont NEED to try to use the artist to sell it. Frankenstein, Pride and Prejudice, Harry Potter, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Hurtlocker, American Psycho, Lost in Translation, Fullmetal Alchemist, Uncharted, , Inuyasha, and Magi. So some of the best or most popular movies, books, games and manga OF ALL TIME have been done by women featuring women! Agatha Christie is the the most prolifically sold writer to date.


>High Guardian Spice is unoriginal trash
I disagree


>Why don't they try forming unions?
Animators are forming unions. Specifically Toei animators are unionized and so the company outsources lots of animation to the Philipines. Recently there was a debacle between Toei and its unionized workers to do with LGBT issues where the company was discriminating. In this instance it was a director but I think but animators have a union.


Is it just me or do mangaka and animators die of illnesses probably caused by overwork; Oda almost died, Miura and Yamaguchi got terminal diseases… honestly the fuck.


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its definitely not just you


yes they do,most death are from stress related diseases,it should be pretty obvious to everyone.


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industry related so putting this here


This is definitely related, thanks anon. And yeah Crunchyroll has totally sold old, corporation have monopolized another "independent venture" again. Also I can see people are STILL not getting paid shit huh? Jujutsu Kaisen is enormously popular (for good reason) and they can't pay their guys properly? That's some bullshit.


>Discussion of the way that Animators are treated in the Anime industry. Firstly. why are animators treated like shit?
Aren't you faggots always complaining about CG in anime and not enough frames?


jesus these are starvation wages, given the tremendous amount of work that goes into dubbing an entire show


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Criticizing animation is not contradictory to support of animators, not to mention that animators have always had shit wages and hours, and lacked computer programs to do their animations on, and yet animations from the past tended to be much better and more heartfelt. Moreover criticism of poor animation is actually related to poor pay and hours, as animation studios are generally the ones being criticized as a whole - not just specific animators - in part due to their shitty payment and treatment of animators leading to poorer products.

As a freelance VA that's trying to get into this area of work, yeah it's a ton of effort and depending on the order, very thankless. Ironically Seiyu's in Japan get a lot of money compared to anime dubbers.


Japan seems to have a lot of promotion of overworks in general, but it might be more noticeable in a field like this that people pay attention to.


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>Criticizing animation is not contradictory to support of animators, not to mention that animators have always had shit wages and hours, and lacked computer programs to do their animations on, and yet animations from the past tended to be much better and more heartfelt. Moreover criticism of poor animation is actually related to poor pay and hours, as animation studios are generally the ones being criticized as a whole - not just specific animators - in part due to their shitty payment and treatment of animators leading to poorer products.
Animation is exorbitantly time and labor intensive. You might as well start bitching about how the guys who assemble your iphones deserve a raise. You just have an emotional connection to your animu vs the chipboard in your iphone and so you can feel better for being emotionally attached to the products of exploitation.


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If you're implying that's (me) then I can safely tell you I don't have a single piece of anime "merch", unless old VHS tapes of Ghost in a Shell I got from a garage sale years ago count.
>Animation is exorbitantly time and labor intensive
No shit faggot. That doesn't mean you cannot analyze and criticize it, or that it shouldn't exist or whatever your insane rant is supposed to mean.
>ou might as well start bitching about how the guys who assemble your iphones deserve a raise.
Your analogy makes no sense you assmad moron.
>You just have an emotional connection to your animu
<feel better for being emotionally attached to the products of exploitation
The fuck are you on about.
1) There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, you cannot guarantee it unless you literally do every material step yourself.
2) It's not about attachment, I feel no attachment for a ton of anime, but I can still recognize if they have shit animation or not, because that's critique of an artform of culture. Advocating for fair wages is an economic and ethical question that is based on materialist analysis and is divorced in that sense of art except in regards to it materially 'pinching' culture, exploiting it and preventing it from developing and being maintained in quality.

Your nonsense is some kind of dogmatic gobbledygook.


More to the point, what is the call to action of this thread? Are you all going to start boycotting studios that don't treat their animators well?


NTA but we're on an anime board, so we discuss anime, the industry and its problems here. There's no need to talk about the exploited third worlders who make our phones because we already do that elsewhere and we're all aware of how capitalism fucks over all workers.
Also that poster probably hates the coomer pedoshit garbage that you're talking about.


Isn't that pretty much all of them with the exception of maybe Kyoani? Like I'm pretty sure that even if any studio treats it's in-house animators decently, the fact they subcontract inbetween animation to Filipino slave work means that a part of the animation will always be "unethical", so to speak. I don't think anyone here lives in Japan in order to help agitating (which is also notoriously a terrible country to be a leftist, they just get the secret police on you for the tiniest shit).

I think the point of this thread is precisely to facilitate a discussion about the way animation is produced, in order to better understand it's problems, it's potential for change (if it has any), and just a general discussion about how anime gets to be made. When you think about it, animators should be profoundly radicalized by the experience of ungodly working conditions, and yet they don't. Why is that? A partial answer is, of course, that animation is a kind of work people are passionate about, so they are willing to put with a lot more bullshit than otherwise; it also means there is no shortage of shitty young animators willing to get paid sub-living wages just so that they can work in their beloved anime industry. So yeah, I don't have a call to action, but I do find the discussion interesting.


I can't guarantee its a reply to me (13889) but yes I can confirm I loath any "coomer pedoshit garbage" that they're talking about


never paid for anime,so I'm already on it.


this is probably correct,but the key point is that those jobs are LESS alienating than the majority,they are payed like shit and work in terrible conditions,but they can tangibly feel their craft,making it self-exploitation on top of the peer pressure/regular exploitation.
this also applies to game devellopers/vfx artists etc,having unhealthy working habits is not unknown from the "artistic" type of people,so it's just exploiting that drive,and pressuring everybody who doesn't want to kill themselves working that all the work they're not doing is going to be put on someone else,so you feel responsible for the suffering of your "fellow workers" on top of it.


Yeah, any industry that has "crunch" time is pretty much made up of people who are either extremely passionate about that they do or extremely precarious in their situation (or both, of course). This means that porkies can exploit the workers up to the very last drop of blood, which just creates awful meatgrinder work that leaves people broken or so burnt out it might as well be the same. Worst of all is that they generally are also very competitive jobs, as in workers tend to care a lot about their craft and thus "compete" with one another to see who can make the best stuff, which makes unionizing very hard.


>all your games are belong to us
Perfect reference given the context


What I don't understand is they treat their animator like shit, but a metric fuck ton of anime somehow keep getting produced each year
It's really insane
>Ironically Seiyu's in Japan get a lot of money compared to anime dubbers.
Word of advice stop being a weeb and hold off on doing anime dubs if you're an aspiring VA
Stick to western cartoons
They literally pay more for less amount of work and isn't filled with amateurs that are held back by trying to match the way japanese VAs act


>stop being a weeb
I'm not, I didn't say I'm doing anime VA dubs, i'm in general trying to be a VA, lol.
>Stick to western cartoons
Got to get through the basics first, even being acquainted with veteran Voice Actors isn't going to pave an easy path.


normalfaggots and shitty reading comprehension, my favorite duo


Maybe try answering the question


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Sort of on topic regarding animators, there's plenty of amateur animators on youtube like the following
Who make efforts to create fan-scenarios and moments and the animation can be a bit choppy but its cool too. Unfortunately DMCA often cuts these people down because "muh copyright" bullshit over characters. Then there's assholes like Seth who nix an entire project because of disagreements instead of manning up and releasing a fight they promised and released teasers for.


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Animators are definitely abused in the industry as are mangaka but most VAs aren't exactly in great condition either and have to either play along with trends and political beliefs or be harassed. Japanese social media is just as cancerously toxic as Western liberals on twitter, it's just not as well known because they're separated spheres of interest. Pic rel is an example, as most of Japan has been supporting Ukraine as part of being a US lapdog, and anti-Russian sentiments have been on the rise ever since Abe tried to get Putin to give up the Kuril islands.


>Don't Bully Me, Russia!


As a big Sumipe fan, this made my blood boil. This news is clickbaity, but it's true that she basically had to stop using russian in her youtube show and other vids where she usually greeted fans with zdràstvujte.





lol I remember some friends getting mad at me for pirating anime instead of using crunchyroll because "it supports the creators"


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Not animator but mangaka
>all along, people thought the artist was a man
>turns out the author self-inserted as monsters because she had self-esteem issues
>publishers forced her to humanize her manga's heroines because they were "ugly"
>sales crashed as a result, and the manga was canceled
>author hasn't been heard of since
Fucking whitecollar 'suits. This could have been so good.
It reminds me of
A) the first 2 Grimm fics recced in the RWBY thread >>20710 (Where a Heart Once Was & My Abominable Monster Classmates Can't Be This Cute)
B) Rosario and Vampire
C) The one-shot manga made by Nagatoro's author A Tale of Being Eaten by a Man Eating Youkai >>10352

Honestly sounds like a cool premise and the idea that monster girls wouldn't sell well is fucking retarded given MGE, Monster Musume and other subsequent stories, not to mention Inuyasha.


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Everyone's favorite conglomerate Crunchyroll/Funimation is back at it again with not wanting to pay their VAs
>Do a bunch of advertising telling people "support the studios"
>Refuses to pay their employees
Animator fundraiser is a good place to start instead of paying CrunchyRoll when they don't even use their money correctly

>A Message to the Fans of Mob Psycho 100



what manga


That's it, that's all of it. I think the creator is called Sanzo, the greentext is specifically about them and their short manga panels like those 4.


>That's it, that's all of it.

Are you fucking kidding me

That's such a dope setup for a manga, and she's not making any more? I think her pixiv was last updated like 2019. That sucks. That's such fucking bullshit. Fuck this gay earth.


Yeah, that's Japanese business-bullshit. She made a ton of other MONSTERgirl x boy manga shorts like this, some get really fucked up or are really wholesome, like Knight and Dragon.



Forgot to list GMS animations They did a kick-ass Naruto and Sasuke vs Isshiki fight.


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