/games/ - Games

>>45246
Nuh uh

>>45243
>>45244
Even in fiction where Chaos is the protagonist their cultists get done dirty. Like seriously the Word Bearers trilogy is full of instances where the narration is like "he felt nothing but hatred and contempt for these pathetic worms who weren't totally cool space marines like him and casually crushed one of their skulls for glancing upwards." When human cultists are ever mentioned it's either in grueling slavery, cannon fodder, or mentions that they keep them tightly packed and tortured to insanity in their ships when they travel. Just once, I'd like to see some human cultists who are actually competent

>>45248
How can they be competent when they're devoted to the gods of retardation from the lolsorandumb nebula

>>45250
At least they dont worship a corpse

>>45251
Not an argument

>>45252
Neither is "gods of retardation"

>>45248
I havent read those books, but I did read one about Iron Warriors. Now my first exposure to WH40k was Dawn of War, there I fell in love with joyful band of murderous lunatics that composed Chaos forces, in a stark contrast to bunch of angsty edgy losers they were portrait as in the book. The problem with Chaos is that the writers misguidingly attempt to give characters depth, which goes completely against their fundamental concept as cartoonish evil. Ironically in the process writers even made them evil in ways they shouldnt be. Like in the book Chaos warriors were still xenohobic and discriminated against protagonist due to his gene seed not being "pure". Which, how the hell do you square those beliefs with praying to extra-dimensional entities to reassemble your DNA helix?

>>45250
They shouldnt even be competent in conventional sense of the word, just have their lolsorandom retardation backed up by demonic powers.

>>45258
>Now my first exposure to WH40k was Dawn of War, there I fell in love with joyful band of murderous lunatics that composed Chaos forces

You'll probably like the Word Bearers trilogy then, because they're all pretty gleefully evil and sadistic while also being competent at the same time. The trilogy is a textbook case of bad guys getting shit done and the main character in particular outplotting others by factoring their own plots into his.

>The problem with Chaos is that the writers misguidingly attempt to give characters depth, which goes completely against their fundamental concept as cartoonish evil. Ironically in the process writers even made them evil in ways they shouldnt be. Like in the book Chaos warriors were still xenohobic and discriminated against protagonist due to his gene seed not being "pure". Which, how the hell do you square those beliefs with praying to extra-dimensional entities to reassemble your DNA helix?

There's actually a pretty good reason for this and it's rooted in the general doctrine of Chaos Undivided and the Horus Heresy itself. The First Heretic covers it in detail, but to give you the gist of it the followers of Chaos Undivided believe that the gods are special patrons of humanity, previously patronizing the Eldar before they fucked up. Now the mandate of heaven so to speak has passed to humans, and it is up to the Word Bearers to enlighten mankind to the truth of the Ruinous Powers or otherwise they will be driven extinct by hostile aliens, which according to the doctrine are usurping humanity's divine right to rule the galaxy. All of this of course comes from a daemon princess so the truthfulness of this shit can be called into doubt, but followers of Chaos believe it which is what matters. While the Black Legion and Iron Warriors are a bit looser about the rules depending on what suits them, the Word Bearers especially are even more xenophobic than the Imperium and consider them too soft on aliens. Factor that in with Chaos encouraging internal feuds and rivalries as a method of culling the weak and allowing the strong to ascend and you have a faction full of nasty folks that will look for any reason possible to discriminate against you. Hell the main character of the Word Bearers trilogy, Marduk, faces discrimination within his own legion not even for having impure gene seed but because he was brought into the fold shortly before the Heresy as opposed to being there from the beginning, which apparently makes him a "whelp" even though it's been TEN THOUSAND FUCKING YEARS GET OVER YOURSELVES. And yeah time works differently in the warp so for them it's only been like a few hundred years relatively speaking but still

>They shouldnt even be competent in conventional sense of the word, just have their lolsorandom retardation backed up by demonic powers

Well the thing is Chaos doesn't really care much about their followers unless they're really strong, and even then only so long as they're useful. Most of the time human cultists fall beneath the notice of the gods, and when they ARE noticed the gods will usually pull some random dickery on them for shits and giggles.

>>45257
It's not an argument, it's just true chaosbabby.

I just hate the Imperials

>>45262
Well if the Emperor is so smart why did he let Obviously Evil McEvilstein over here into the Good Boys Club? Sounds like a bit of an oversight there

>>45264
you just dont understand. it was all part of emperors 5d chess plan
>gw writes this in canon…

>>45264
Emperor allowed murderous murderer who loves murder and hates his dad in charge of good boy club, and then was utterly flabbergasted when good boy club turned into "we love murder and hate emperor" club.

Tau are cool.:)

>>45264
If chaos is so smart why did the emperor successfully use their instrument to establish a galaxy spanning empire capable of bottling them up in a galactic butthole for 10,000 years

>>45268
Writing emperor as an ego-blinded megalomaniac is the only way to avoid him coming off as an absolute bumbling moron. Just on every step of the way doing the exact opposite of what he is trying to achieve

>>45272
simple, because chaos didnt want to win. Chaos wanted the galaxy to be what it was in 40k.
If chaos won, the galaxy would end. And thus the gods would die.
If the emperor won, chaos would lose. And thus the gods would become weak.
If the emperor and chaos both dont win, then it leads to a constant state of warfare. One which the dark gods will constantly feed on

>>45275
>simple, because chaos didnt want to win
Cuckrines worshipping lolsorandumb gods of retardation confirmed

>>45275
Well that's not entirely accurate, they have no problem with their own destruction if it means pulling down everyone else with them. Hence why plan A was to turn the Emperor into the Dark King. The current state of the galaxy is plan B, but plan A could very well still be on track if the Emperor either wakes up or dies

>>45277
>if it means pulling down everyone else with them
but why would they want that? Im confused

>>45280
Ask James Workshop my dude, they're the ones that wrote the Dark King plotline into the Horus Heresy series and have that revealed to be the ultimate goal of the Chaos Gods. Basically it would have been to humanity what Slaanesh was to the Eldar, and after it became clear that Horus was burning himself out the Ruinous Powers decided in the last days of the Seige to try and trick the Emperor into becoming it via overpowering himself on warp energy during the final battle. It's heavily implied that the birth of the Dark King would effectively destroy both the material universe and the warp, which again apparently the Chaos Gods are fine with since it means everyone else dies too

>>45259
I decided to try reading the first Word Bearers book, finished first chapter and thats it. The writing is bad, even compared to handful other Warhammer books I read. And the portrait of CSM is exactly what I complained about, they are just so angsty and lame. Like in that first chapter you POV of some Chaos Lord fuming about his rival, but in such an immature way unbecoming of what is supposed to be an ancient warrior-priest. At one point he calls him a whoreson, which doesnt even make sense, concepts of motherhood and whoredom and all those things implied in that insult should not occupy any room in a psyche of Space Marine.

>>45325
The Gaunts Ghosts books were okay, I was a child though.
Elemental Council was pretty decent. Nothing amazing but better writing than I'd expected.

>>45263
>I just hate the Imperials
It dosent have to be like this, anon.

>>45325
I crie

Nah but honestly I get the problems you have with it and the dialogue between fellow Chaos Space Marines is definitely a weaker part of the series. Most of the books though are taken up but what people call "bolter porn", cuz Anthony Reynolds really likes to go into detail with weapons and their effects, which for me would be boring if it were a novel set with real world weapons but because this is a grim dark sci fi romp with tons of ridiculous shit it's kinda engaging.

In terms of angst and edginess though, my standard for that is set by the Night Lords trilogy, where Talos is always engaged in melodramatic musings on how depressing and hopeless everything is but will nevertheless keep doing the same shit he's always been doing because that's how he rolls, in between bouts of torturing people to death. By contrast the Word Bearers trilogy doesn't bother with trying to get the audience to sympathize with the main cast, they're gleefully evil backstabbing traitorous assholes because that's how you rise through the ranks of Chaos.

I would also argue that the Word Bearers having petty grudges is pretty in character for Chaos too since it actively promotes feuds and rivalries backstabbing. If the Horus Heresy series is any indication they consider treachery in and of itself to have an innate magical power, while sadism is encouraged because torturing someone to death resonates a lot more with the Warp than a clean kill. As for the particular character you're complaining about though he's actually got a fairly decent reason for hating his rival beyond usual Chaos antics.

Whatever I'm just rambling. I personally like the series but it's certainly not for everyone

I think warhammer 40k was lame as fuck but then I played Darktide and Rogue Trader and I realized I just hate the space marines

>>45332
Rogue Trader is actually what got me back into it, always wanted to play it on tabletop in person but my group settled on the chaos one instead, and it kind sucked. I think Rogue Trader as a setting is perfect for exploring the 40K universe in an actual interesting way, and the Video Game adaptation has done it justice, even outside of 40K it's, imho, a very good RPG, something we rarely see anymore.

>>45277
>Dark King
Horus Heresy books are such an embarrassment.

>>37163
TRVTH NVKE

>>37163
>I hate all of it. The fans, the retarded looking oversized armor.
You would fit right in.

> Most of all I hate that it’s heavily focused on the American military.
It's not. Have you read more than one line of the lore?

>>45328
The T'au empire have a strict hierarchy. The Auns run everything from the shadow, nobody know what they even want but we can see than anything that will give them more power is good for the greater good and anything that question their power is bad for the greater good.
Then come the fire, earth, air, and water castes and then come the subjects of the empire.
Humans have proven to be a bellicist race and the greater good require that they should be removed from existence once we are powerful enough. This is what you fight for.
And they don't even know about the demons.


>>45332
Orks be da best, but no Ork game. Me want to Mad Max.

>>45456
>no ork game
>mad max
well that's speed freaks,but it's kinda dead on arrival

Games Workshop DMCA'd Void War.

>>45627
could just be a troll TBH, that shit has happened before

>>45630
Its finally back, and the DMCA was from GW, specifically because of "the oversized convex shoulder pads with a metallic rim" appearing in the trailer.

>>45627
>>45630
>>45924
GW being so litigious and protective of its copyright is so hilarious when you remember that their shit is just a bunch of sci-fi and fantasy novels cobbled together into one universe.

My main problem with Warhammer 40k is that they keep pulling their punches with the fascists. It's supposed to be super GRIMDARK, but at the end of the day that really just means that the universe itself is bleak. Everything the fascists actually justified in-universe because of the extremely dangerous nature of the galaxy of 40k.

So, despite the fact that 40k is supposed to take the GRIMDARK up to 11, a real wold conflict like WW1 is easily more grimdark. Why? The First World War was far, FAR more grimdark than anything involving Chaos, Tyrannids or Necrons because the men who died in that war died for nothing. It was a completely senseless bloodletting that would, at best, determine if Britain got Gibraltar. The men who died, on both sides, didn't die for their gods or their countries or their families or for higher ideals like democracy, liberty or human rights. They just died to feed two hungering war machines.

In contrast, most of the conflicts in 40k feel something more like a big galactic D Day or Siege of Stalingrad. Yes, it's brutal, yes its grim, yes men are being butchered in mass to take an inch of ground, but its all in service to protect humanity from the death and oblivion that comes to consume it, and every seeming insanity or paranoia of the Imperium is fully justified as a measure against the advancing darkness.

This is actually one of the things Starcraft got right. I have never heard of anyone having fantasies about being in penal legions of the Terran Confederacy, Dominion or UED. Even though Starcraft's universe isn't nearly as bleak, it doesn't attempt to justify its fascist factions every step of the way.

Vids related, just look at the difference between how Space Marine 2 and Starcraft 1 treats their fascist forces.

>>45925
To be fair that one artwork did fly a little too close to the sun.

>>45931
Shit looks straight up traced or AI generated and palletized

>>45925
I just started reading Elric and it's p good

>>45927
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKIAMAqGNIY
yeah an example of this is general sturnn. 40k portrays its fascists as heroic valient soldiers

>>45945
>>45927
40k has undergone terminal flanderization. The new stuff is sanitized compared to the 2000AD ripoffs from the 80s. The whole setting was a rule of cool potpourri of stolen genre fiction tropes tinged with British end of empire anxiety. Space Marines went from brainwashed psychos, savages, and criminals to le ultimate serene untouchable warrior monks. Then they doubled down on it with super-ultra-squeaky-clean primarines in the new Robutt Girlyman metaplot. Take picrel for example. In remaking the iconic rogue trader cover they cleaned it up to make the marines look more heroic. Even the fallen aren't mangled, but lay lifeless and intact like some fascist martyr worship statue.

>>45951
Is second image an official art? Like I have no attachment to early 40k, but contrasting it this explicitly reflects so badly on GW. Ideological subtext aside, just artistically so soulless. Who approved this? What were they thinking?

>>45951
>>45952
The sanitisation is a serious problem, but come on the new picture looks way cooler than the old one. It is a way more appealing art style and composition. You're just being nostalgic for the old art style. I don't think the old art is really less heroic either, it is that British 80s-90s kind of rightwing artstyle where it revels in the ugliness.

>>45953
>it is that British 80s-90s kind of rightwing artstyle where it revels in the ugliness
>come on the new picture looks way cooler than the old one
That's my point. Nobody normal looks at early 40k art or Judge Dredd or whatever and thinks "hell yeah I wish I was that was me" except rightwing psychos who are missing the joke. They took it from ugly convict legionnaires dying pointlessly on a hill to heroic last stand.

>>45953
>but come on the new picture looks way cooler than the old one.

Nah

>>45953
As I said, I have no nostalgia for early 40k, my first contact with the franchise was Dawn of War. The second image looks AI generated, and I know it is not, but it is the uninspired mass produced generic fantasy/sci-fi art which constitutes bulk of datasets and are the reason why AI images look like that.

>>45977
nta but dawn of war is such a interesting case. In one hand you can tell theres a lot of parody aspects in it. But in the other hand you have characters like sturnn who is not really a parody character.

>>45991
Dawn of War is tonally not going for parody, but a violent saturday morning cartoon. Sturnn is a grizzled old general cliché. Basically Patton in SPAAAACE. His famous heroic speech is about how his men's greatest talent is dying, which I am not sure if it was intended as joke by writers, but still is funny because it is literally true in gameplay, imperial guard infantry is a trash cannon fodder worse than orc boyz. Their most iconic ability is shooting their own troops to regain morale!

>>45992
>violent saturday morning cartoon
oh, yeah that works. Finally i have a term for what dawn of war is. I was stuck in the is it parody, is it serious, or whatever. This term works

>>45951
I don't disagree with you, but then I think that modern 40k is better as a narrative than what was before. Attempts to sell minis like primaris marines destroy the narrative, though. Aesthetics are really nice and unique for every faction, after decades of refining (lore or stories aren't as good, though). There are missed opportunities like necrontyr creating humanity to wear as bodies, or tyranids becoming kind and understanding, but otherwise - it became better.

What they need to do to finish the transformation is to bleach all space marines, remove all retarded paint schemes and keep only camo, gray and other no fun options, and then there will be much less cringe