I think the Kingdom Come: Deliverance of the problem of trying to make an authentic artistic product amid culture war bullshit.
Despite the fact that KC:D is historical fiction and is set in the real, historical medieval kingdom of Bohemia, the first came came under fire for its lack of diversity. What were they thinking, making all the inhabitants of rural villages in medieval Bohemia white?! And coming to the defense of this admittedly ridiculous criticism were a bunch of right-wing and GamerGate types.
Now we have Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 and… what's this? There's one (1) Muslim traveler from the Mali Empire in Bohemia? And what's this? You can have a gay romance? Are you trying to tell me there were GAY people in the middle ages? This game isn't BASED anymore!
It really shows how creatives are sandwiched between two tribes of dipshits wanting equally stupid changes so that all media products signal towards their tribe.
>>39536It wasn't a criticism made recently. It was like over a decade ago. It became a part of the whole "GamerGate" thing.
I believe it was a part of websites like Kotaku just shitting out bunches of clickbait articles, but it is part of a general sentiment. I remember the Northman facing a similar criticism.
>>39534They aren’t sandwiched between two choices, Vavra originally decided to milk the chuddies for kickstarter money back then, that was it.
Now that his company financially matured he doesn’t need to care about purity spiraling anymore, the game will sell well anyway. For example, one of the bigger influencers who was obviously hired to pump out KCD videos years ago was a MtF transwoman and very open about it. The relationship between her and Warhorse Studios was semi confirmed by all those developer interviews she had access to, zero chuddie outrage.
I remember when Crowbcat uploaded a video shitting on Warhorse, as they falsely advertised sieges and cut story content, the comment section was overrun by retards seething so fucking hard at Crowbcat, it was so bad they were forced to delete the video. Hiding behind the culture war obviously worked for Vavra, he recruited a fanbase of brainlets ready to defend any misstep and lie and even ready to throw /v/ approved YouTubers under the bus. They aren’t needed anymore, fuck them said Vavra, and so the salt will flow (forever).
>>39540>>39537It is absolutely a strawman because all you have is:
>I think I saw a screencap of a tweet to that effect a decade agoAnd you are literally trying to "both-sides" it. It's a disingenuous equivocation when we are bombarded with the right complaining and you are talking about something you only saw through their complaining, never even saw it in the wild.
>>39544This isn't about the left, it's about radlibs.
In truth, no one really gives a shit about genuine leftist critiques.
>>39542Yes, he was milking the chuds, but I think that was more an accident of circumstance.
>>39543I don't know why you're in denial about this. It's a criticism that is leveled at works to this day.
>you are talking about something you only saw through their complaining, never even saw it in the wild.I've seen shit like this in the wild a lot. In fact, I've seen the fruits of it in the media, maybe most annoyingly in the recent Tolkien adaptations and critiques of Tolkien. Like, I've seen people defending Tauriel in the Peter Jackson Hobbit movies because she brings in female representation.
The VVEST hasn't fallen, billions don't need to die, but it IS out there and it is annoying.
>>39544>>39549NTA but he kinda worded in wrongly. A German man living amongst Czechs has the wrong opinions and he is harassed by the protagonist at the beginning of the game, basically the German says that the Eastern Cuman Hordes aren't all that bad and dies at the intro raid on the protags village, and that is mentioned atleast 3 or 4 times throughout the game "He liked 'em but they for sure ain't spared 'im!"
Now think what this could be an allegory to.
>>39551Not putting any black characters into the game was a design choice he probably had to explain to his developers in a meeting, as he was project manager. He went out of his way to antagonize the radlibs on Twitter, for weeks at that. It didn't happen by accident.
It isn't like other games weren't critized for non-black characters back then, there was Witcher 3 and they simply ignored the bait and later on changed their mind and added black characters anyway.
>>39544>they decided to go with the weird "slavic menace" Please at least read a wikipedia article about the game
before attempting a crique.
>when nato was preparing a proxy war against russiaYeah, who can forget the NATO invasion of Russia of 2018.
>>39552I dont remember cumans being even mentioned during that tavern argument, just Sigismund. Which is why trying to graft some modern day geo-political narrative onto this game is nonsense, Sigismund isnt remembered as an evil foreign invader, but one of Bohemia's and HRE's greatest rulers.
two months before the game released a journalist has asked a developer if the second game will have "multiple ethnicities", and the developer responded yes, if by ethnicities you mean czechs, silesians, germans, moravians and the cumans.
this was promoted all over the tiktok and youtube and imageboards and plebbit as a sick own of the libtard journalist by the wholesome based anti wook small game developing studio.
a week later a discover the conversation never happened and it was a made up edited article, yes OP there's a market for this shit about owning the libs, it's a marketing strategy, been like that for long
i think i've seen more people complaining about pink haired sjws with insane woke takes ruining gaming and media, than actual sjws saying woke takes, or any takes at all
>>39544anon, i doubt 300 did anything to make the american populace start larping as warriors of the vvest resisting iran, yes they tried to mix in the script all kinds of american lingos about freedom and liberty into leonidaes speech, but if they were trying to create a similarity between Xerses and khomeinei they would have made the persians look more sadistic. made them hit a woman or veil her freedom
besides they don't need to hide behind ancient greece and ancient persia to manufacture consent for invading the middle east, they already do that openly in other movies set in modern times.
>>39572I thought that was the Cumans, who are acting as mercenaries for Sigismund. And doesn't this game take place in Medieval Bohemia, which is primarily populated with Czechs?
So isn't it a Slavic village being pillaged and burnt by semi-settled Central Asian steppe nomads who are the paid mercenaries of a German king?
Where is the Cumans = Russians thing coming from?
>>39577I don't know why you guys are in such heavy denial about this. I don't know what you think there is to gain by playing dumb. The right-wing outrage mill can blow radlib takes out of proportion, but that doesn't mean that the radlib takes aren't real. You can find any number of articles, social media posts, videos, etc, espousing these radlib takes, and even people in the industry and corporate sphere in general espousing these same radlib opinions, so I don't get this culture of essentially playing dumb.
I brought up the right-wing outrage over a black guy and a gay option which just amounts to a few articles, social media posts, YouTube videos, etc, and no one here is denying that!
>>39581<I don't know what you think there is to gain by playing dumb.we're not a monolith.
look i don't know about the other anons so here's my believe, i won't say that i'm in denial, that shit you described exists, yes those vox articles written by radlibs about games aren't made up (most of the time), i've seen them, looked them up before, it's just that, they feel dwarved by the reaction and somtimes the radlib article feels somewhat "tame" compared to what you heard about it, i'm serious i wouldn't have known that a radlib was complaining about the lack of women or minorities in the witcher, if it wasn't for eveyone telling me about it in memes a hundred times, with four diffrent screenshots reposted on the same platform a bazillion times.
i wouldn't have known what sweet baby inc is if it wasn't for the drama sourrounding it for months, and then when you see how some of that drama was deliberatly milked, you just don't know anymore, it's hard not to see somone sharing a new story about DEI in games and not feel like somethings are just inflated to generate clicks and shock
>>39582This isn't about *us* unless /leftypol/ is actually a radlib culture warrior board.
Yes, the outrage mill can dwarf the actual event the outrage was over, but that doesn't mean that the event that sparked the outrage didn't happen. What's more, it's not just conservative outrage mills. There is a very big, very strong radlib outrage mill as well that does the exact same sort of thing.
And this is what I'm getting at. I don't get the weird culture of pretending that the radlib outrage mills either don't exist or aren't important. We don't do that with the conservative outrage mills. Is the idea that we're on the side of the radlib outrage mills, so we do damage control for them? Because I disagree with that.
Sweet Baby Inc is actually a pretty good example of this. I never personally found any of their radlibbery all that bothersome, but I can understand why people would get mad about the existence of consulting firms whose primary purpose is to alter and censor media on explicitly political grounds. If it was discovered that there were right-wing consultancy groups that companies were getting pressured into using, who altered and censored media so that it was more in line with "pro-Western, Judaeo-Christian and family values," I guarantee you that both liberals AND leftists would be up in arms and the internet would be ablaze, and they wouldn't be wrong! But no one would be acting like these consultancy groups would be a big deal then, so I don't understand why we act like ideological radlib consultancy group are insignificant to the point of not even being worth discussing. Are we leftists are are we radlibs?
>>39584I was specifically talking about outrage culture. First by radlibs, then by conservatives. And conservatives outraged over radlib outrage. And radlibs outraged over conservative outrage. Some people on here have pointed out that one of the lead devs courted this conservative outrage for publicity and money and is now reaping what he had sown. I was pointing out that this is kind of an example of artistic expression (trying to create an authentic historical fiction setting, in this case) coming under attack by two equally stupid tribes of dipshits.
If you're a leftist, attacking both conservatives and liberals should be the norm. It's not "enlightened centrism" unless you're suggesting that we're on the liberals' side.
>>39584>You just admitted that adding the one muslim and gay romance are no big deal.The context these additions were made matters more than the additions themselves. Thinking that wokeness is "when gay people" is a reactionary strawman, you're buying into reactionary propaganda. Next you're gonna call punks reactionary because conservatives say conservatism is the new punk.
>What is this enlightened centrism "more nuanced than thou" signaling?The OP is a based enlightened cultural centrist (if they're an actual centrist then it's kinda cringe but whatever).
>Also, this thread itself is culture war slop.This thread is discussing the culture war, not picking sides.
>>39534>Are you trying to tell me there were GAY people in the middle ages?Yeah, but how widespread was homophobia in the Middle Ages? Europe trading with the Middle East is a little bit more believable despite the whole "deus vult" thing, although I'm not a history buff, I forgor.
>>39594It's like ping-pong, sometimes it's satisfying when a conservatard gets mad, sometimes it's satisfying when a woketard gets mad. It's a balancing act, when you consoom too much of one thing the brainrot starts infecting your mind. And it's definitely way more refreshing when you find some anti-idpol leftists and centrists to follow, they won't make you roll your eyes by having some increadibly stupid take on the culture war.
>>39583>If it was discovered that there were right-wing consultancy groups that companies were getting pressured into using, who altered and censored media so that it was more in line with "pro-Western, Judaeo-Christian and family values,"powell memo, koch network, robert maxwell, cointelpro, etc. etc. etc.
I'm reporting your post for false-flagging as a leftist to imply that the right wing doesn't control the media under capitalism
>>39604>>39605Yes, I'm aware of conservative censorship having existed in the past. The left was up in arms about it. Which makes it all the weirder that that the left acts like radlib censorship is an issue so insignificant as to essentially not be worth discussing.
Do you guys think the radlibs are our comrades? I don't!
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>39606>Do you guys think the radlibs are our comrades?Never said they are, just saying that it's nothing new.
>>39605So much this, thanks for reminding me. Reason Magazine's pockets are literally tied to Bill Gates Foundation, the so-called "charity" organization (sounds familiar?). The same thing as with Kurzgesagt.
>>39606>existed in the past.? it exists right now and it is structural, not a random event - the fact that most media is privately owned means that (1) most media is the property of those who can afford it, this is, the bourgeoisie and (2) that it is going to be organically hostile towards any attempt at socialization. the things I mentioned were never cancelled or really interrupted. read "manufacturing consent" by chomsky
I mean, I know you won't, you are a weird right-winger trying to troll with this weird angle but whatever
>>39624Its not possible for me to take a quick look at the /v/ catalogue and not see a kcd2 thread up with hundreds of replies, and that has been the case since the release of the game, so the past 4 days or so.
They are not taking it well at all, they are seeing a return of the game industry back to the early 2010s and they dont like it.
>>39616What zero media literacy does to a mfer, though I suppose this is the same braindead mindset that liberals use to interpret media.
>a character says something to me>does that say something about the character?>no, it's the developer/artist/writer speaking to me and trying to put thoughts into my brainAlso I love the petty kvetching about TRUE LOVERS OF HISTORYYYYY and yet, hey, brother, peppers? spices? You know, those things that European royalty like this guy would end up conquering half the world to get? You think that all that's going on here is the hated SJWs dissing your proud cabbage soup culture? Fucking idiot.
>>3964515 is legal in the Czech Republic for Henry, as he is also underage lol
Chuddies are just grasping at straws, their porky daddy Vavra has backstabbed them in their minds.
>>39599 (me)
Seriously, how rampant was homophobia in the Middle Ages? Was it accepted in Bohemia?
>>39654>now imagine if the game was based aka no black poopleThere are black people? I thought there were only Euros and Muslims.
>>39645There's some ambiguity with this, though, because Warhorse Studios loves portraying supposed 15-year-old boys as big strapping young men in their 20s. Henry is also "15."
lmao
>>39612>>39614Yes, but I would argue that radlib censorship has, briefly, become the new new norm in the broader media landscape, though we'll see if the election of Trump changes this.
Also, I would argue that there's a difference between the old ways things were done, which was some executive telling you that you had to change shit to make it more palatable to conservative sensibilities and actively having to work alongside some ideological consultancy company. It's the difference between, for instance, getting regular reprimands from the Bishop and actively having an Inquisitor breathing down your neck. If there really WAS a conservative consultancy group that media companies were pressured to use, I would consider it an escalation from the old model.
>>39615Yes, but you know what I mean. They're the two factions in the culture war.
>>39622I was given a one day ban for "low effort bait."
So basically my post rustled the wrong mod's jimmies.
>>39664lmao are you talking about Manufacturing Consent?
That's about imperialism. I'm talking about the fucking culture war. As a mod, you should have better reading comprehension.
If what you're suggesting is that only conservatives manufacture consent, that's just wrong. The liberals do it just as much, if not more, than the conservatives. These same radlibs you're trying to cape for absolutely believe every last bit of imperialist propaganda and, in fact, modern imperialist propaganda is made with them specifically in mind.
>>39668It's a book primarily about how American propaganda works, but it's specifically about, you know,
manufacturing consent for American state initiatives like war and imperialism. And I understand how it works, it's essentially a self-correcting, self-censoring machine, but ultimately that machine is maintained by the threat of some executive or other authority coming down and throwing the hammer down if he sees something he doesn't like.
Also, Manufacturing Consent is from fucking 1988. You figure the media landscape hasn't changed *at all* in 37 years? You figure it's the exact same now as it was in the last year of Ronnie Raygun's presidency? Oh, the media can't be radlib now and influenced by consultancy groups because that's now how it was back in the year that fucking Rambo III came out.
>>39669>but it's specifically about>I understand how it works>but ultimately that machine is maintained byyou are wrong, and explaining the book to you would only condone your laziness
>1988the trends described there have only intensified, the logic behind it hasn't changed at all. I could mention authors that have dealt with this precise topic using empirical data, but they develop on top of the book that you refuse to read
here is an epub for the lurkers that details how all the culture war nonsense hasn't changed in any way the functioning or structure of media under capitalism
>>39675nah, that was a deserved ban, and if anything, too short. that post is blatant concern trolling. the implication being made is that there isn't conservative censorship in media, that the left not only has any control whatsoever over it, but that it should be worried about the current culture war topic instead of actual politics
read carefully: "conservative censorship having existed in the past" as if it didn't exist now, and as if it was an isolated event and not integral and inherent to the way media works under capitalism. on top of it all, what's the objective of that post? to blame "radlibs" (the gay or whatever)
it is like a dumb guy trying to do cointelpro
>>39676>>39677The one concern trolling here is you. You're bringing up a strawman (no one claimed that the manufacturing of consent had stopped, I was just making a point about the culture war) and now you're trying to claim that I'm saying that the media isn't conservative at all and is entirely radlib. I never claimed such a thing. The pendulum simply shifted towards the radlibs to that they were more dominant in the media and the general corporate space for the last 8 years and especially around 2020, but that by no means suggests that I don't believe that conservative media exists. Of course conservative media exists. Of course there are conservative pressures on the media. All I'm saying is that for a brief period of time, the radlibs became more influential. In the past conservative pressures on the media and culture was the dominant force, but now its the radlibs. It remains to be seen if the presidency of Donald Trump will change this.
Leftists, of course, have basically no input on the media and maybe *some* influence on the broader culture. What's suspect is that you seem conflate the radlibs with the left. Radlibs are radical liberals, not "the gays." People basically contented with the status quo, but want to put forth a front of some kind of (usually identity-based) radicalism. An example of radlibbery would be those corporations and institutions that decided to start doing "land acknowledgements." Before a meeting or something, they have someone come forward and say that their building was built on the land of some Native American tribe. They're not trying to make things better with that tribe, and they're certainly not going to give the land back, so it's just performative bullshit. Radical liberalism. Or like one of the recent trend in fantasy media. They want more diverse representation in the settings they portray. Do they mean greater diversity in voices, like they're going to do something like adapt
The Palm Wine Drinkard instead of yet another European fantasy setting? Hell no! They're just going to do another fantasy Europe setting, but the extras are ethnically diverse and maybe a couple of minor characters are black. Radical liberalism.
>>39680>Do they mean greater diversity in voices, like they're going to do something like adapt The Palm Wine Drinkard instead of yet another European fantasy setting? Hell no!Well, Disney did create Moana, Raya and the Last Dragon and the Mulan live-action remake. Moana was great. Raya was decent. Mulan sucked. But this does disprove this, even if I generally agree with your points.
Also, ironically the live-action Last Airbender TV show wasn't diverse enough. Shyamalan 2: Electric Boogaloo.
>>39534>There's one (1) Muslim traveler from the Mali Empire in Bohemia?Acrobatics to cram a black dude. Purely gratuitous.
Semi-Asian mercenaries would probably be more legit at this point but who gives?
>You can have a gay romance? Are you trying to tell me there were GAY people in the middle ages?Just as gratuitous and it was a source of great shame back then. Is it presented that way in the game or is it "homosexuality, but through the positive modern prism?"
The age isn't a problem though, especially back then.
But all of this is just outrage business and the rightoids are falling for it.
>>39538Making a game with whites in a historically white land doesn't strike me as appeasing the first side outside of what was legitimate, it's just called sticking with facts.
Who would be outraged to an all-Chinese cast in a Qing Dynasty game happening in an isolated semi-rural area?
>>39551Bull.
>>39583The liberals would probably find a last minute excuse not to be so offended against people they would be scared of. I don't like left wing people being bagged with libs when the latter are scoundrels without much political consciousness.
>>39586Pottery.
>>39590I don't think threads dedicated to game fun should be tolerated on /v/
>>39616>I dont like your yurop seasoning, our abundantly spiced food is much better>well that's like your opinion mate, have some garlicThere, end of outrage. Fucking pathetic.
>>39624It seems they seethed at the aspect where retarded white cowboys were evil racists and had to be eleminated and this being a recurring thing in the game. I don't know, didn't play it.
>>39690>Acrobatics to cram a black dude.It's historical fiction. The question with historical fiction is if something is plausible, not if it actually happened.
>Just as gratuitous and it was a source of great shame back then. Is it presented that way in the game or is it "homosexuality, but through the positive modern prism?"If you go with the gay romance, as far as I'm aware, if you go with the gay romance, it's kept literally behind locked doors and a very closely guarded secret. Like, if you talk to Sir Hans later about it, he only refers to your gay encounter vaguely and in euphemisms.
>>39690>Acrobatics to cram a black dude.You're saying that there… weren't any Middle-Eastern merchants?
>>39693>if you go with the gay romance, it's kept literally behind locked doors and a very closely guarded secret.Hello, based department?
Now we have a direct confirmation that the game is anti-woke, I shall join you in shitting on the chuds, comrades.
>>39703That's pretty funny huh, everyone named after the guy who was literally named saint uyghur.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Maurice>Maurice became a patron saint of the German Holy Roman Emperors. In 926, Henry the Fowler (919–936), even ceded the present Swiss canton of Aargau to the abbey, in return for Maurice's lance, sword and spurs. The sword and spurs of Maurice were part of the regalia used at coronations of the Austro-Hungarian emperors until 1916, and among the most important insignia of the imperial throne (although the actual sword dates from the 12th century). In addition, some of the emperors were anointed before the Altar of Saint Maurice at St. Peter's Basilica.[1] In 929, Henry the Fowler held a royal court gathering (Reichsversammlung) at Magdeburg. At the same time, the Mauritius Kloster in honour of Maurice was founded. In 961, Otto I, Holy Roman Emperor, was building and enriching Magdeburg Cathedral, which he intended for his own tomb. To that end,
< in the year 961 of the Incarnation and in the 25th year of his reign, in the presence of all of the nobility, on the vigil of Christmas, the body of St. Maurice was conveyed to him at Regensburg along with the bodies of some of the saint's companions and portions of other saints. Having been sent to Magdeburg, these relics were received with great honour by a gathering of the entire populace of the city and of their fellow countrymen. They are still venerated there, to the salvation of the homeland.[4]
>Maurice is traditionally depicted in full armour, in Italy emblazoned with a red cross. In folk culture he has become connected with the legend of the Holy Lance, which he is supposed to have carried into battle; his name is engraved on the Holy Lance of Vienna, one of several relics claimed as the spear that pierced Jesus' side on the cross. Maurice gives his name to the town St. Moritz as well as to numerous places called Saint-Maurice in French-speaking countries. The Indian Ocean island state of Mauritius was named after Maurice, Prince of Orange, and not directly after Maurice himself.
>Over 650 religious foundations dedicated to Saint Maurice can be found in France and other European countries. In Switzerland alone, seven churches or altars in Aargau, six in the Canton of Lucerne, four in the Canton of Solothurn, and one in Appenzell Innerrhoden can be found (in fact, his feast day is a cantonal holiday in Appenzell Innerrhoden).[1] Particularly notable among these are the Church and Abbey of Saint-Maurice-en-Valais, the Church of Saint Moritz in the Engadin, and the Monastery Chapel of Einsiedeln Abbey, where his name continues to be greatly revered. Several orders of chivalry were established in his honour as well, including the Order of the Golden Fleece, Order of Saint Maurice, and the Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus.[1] Additionally, fifty-two towns and villages in France have been named in his honour.[5]
<Maurice is a traditionally masculine given name, also used as a surname. It originates as a French name derived from the Latin Mauritius or Mauricius and was subsequently used in other languages. Its popularity is due to Mauritius, a saint of the Theban Legion (died 287). Mauritius is otherwise attested as a given name of the Roman Empire period, in origin meaning "one from Mauretania", i.e. "the Moor".
<The name Maurice comes from the Latin word Mauritius, which means "dark-skinned" or "Moorish". It originated as a French name and was popular in the Roman EmpireSt. Negro we pray 🙏 for your intercession!
>Acrobatics to cram a black dude. Purely gratuitous.
Oh yeah, and Protestantism basically exists because Martin Luther got the blessings of an Ethiopian man in Europe.
>By 1534 Luther, well established in Wittenberg, had engaged in dialogue with other Protestant reformers and Roman Catholic leaders. In that year Luther welcomed a new voice into his ecumenical dialogue: Michael the Deacon, an Ethiopian cleric. Recalling his dialogue with Michael, Luther stated: “We have also learned from him, that the rite which we observe in the use of administration of the Lord’s Supper and the Mass, agrees with the Eastern Church.” Luther expressed his approval of the Church of Ethiopia along with his embrace of Deacon Michael in a letter dated July 4, 1534: “For this reason we ask that good people would demonstrate Christian love also to this [Ethiopian] visitor.” According to Luther, Michael responded positively to his articles of the Christian faith, proclaiming: “This is a good creed, that is, faith” (see Martin Luther, Table-Talk, November 17, 1538 [WA, TR 4:152-153, no. 4126]).
>George Posfay concludes: “Both Luther and Melanchthon were anxious to talk to this man [Deacon Michael] to get information about the doctrines which were held as Christian truths in his home Church.” Luther, as Tom Hardt notes, extended full communion to Deacon Michael and the Ethiopian Church, an invitation that Luther notably withheld from the Bohemian Brethren (Hussites) and Reformed Churches connected to Huldrych Zwingli. Luther acknowledged theological “equivalency” with Ethiopian Christianity, and in his 1534 dialogue with Michael, Luther finally had the opportunity to find out whether his attractive theological portrait of Ethiopian Christianity was historically credible.
>For Luther, the Church of Ethiopia had more fidelity to the Christian tradition, and the practices mentioned above were marks of this fidelity. Thus, the Church in Europe needed to be reformed in the direction of the Church of Ethiopia. Possibly for Luther the Church of Ethiopia was proof that his reform of the Church in Europe had both a biblical and a historical basis.
>>39714Gentlemen, this is the list of all the anti-woke YouTubers who haven't gone completely insane. Synthetic Man and his consequences have been a disaster for the anti-woke YouTube. Even the grifters TheQuartering and Endymion and the homophobe Andypants Gaming weren't safe.
Kudos to SidAlpha, Upper Echelon and Asmon, they found the strength to not get cucked by /pol/tards. I personally love SidAlpha's content, one of the few gaming YouTubers alongside Bellular who gives Valve some actual level of scrutiny.
>>39706Well I trolled /pol/ with it. There copes were:
>St. Boniface is the patron saint of modern Germany>France has way more towns named after St. Dark skinneded >The Eastern Orthodox Church depicts him as White>Egyptians were all White>Moors aren't dark skinnedIt's funny the only ones arguing against me were: Americans, Brits, and Germs. All the other Euros were having a chuckle at the Germs. Some memeflags were shilling paganism in opposition to kaikstianity.
If anyone wants to write me a better OP that'd be cool. I think I'll troll them again in other hours. The Ramsteinn comparison added another level to it. Maybe it would be good to write rebuttals to all the common points I mentioned:
>>39716It can be hard to bait /pol/ truthfully. Sometimes I've managed hundreds of replies, many times only half a dozen. It's an art.
>>39762Right after Trump won I walked into my local Tesco, piled my cart to the absolute brim, and strolled to the checkout. Right when the cashier said, "your total is $672.89, sir" I smugly reached into my pocket. I handed the cashier a piece of paper that said "Woke lost" and she started blushing really badly, said "o-one second sir," picked up the intercom and paged for the store manager. The store manager came by, said "right on chap, you're free to go" I watched the total drop to $0 on the till and I walked right out of the store with all the groceries.
Later that same day I went to my local NAPA auto parts and bought a set of brakes, right when the cashier totaled everything up I told her that woke lost. She dropped her spaghetti right there and suddenly the total on the cash register went to $0. Walked right out.
I hit up the circle K on the way home and got a polar pop and a bag of skittles. Pulled the same move on the 16 year old bitch working there and the same thing, my total suddenly went to $0 and I walked right out. In the parking lot I realized I forgot my 5th avenue bar and I turned 360 degrees and walked right back in. The cashier fainted when she saw me. I called an ambulance for her and then she texted me back the next day saying that she told collections (the hospital around here started putting people into collections immediately after receiving an ambulance ride) that trump won and woke lost and collections forgave her entire debt right then and there and even tipped her $20 for the inconvenience
>>39693It's definitely plausible but that's just tokenism.
One black person out of millions and millions just to say hey look we put one there, that's thinly veiled racism and you know it.
It's like them saying oh see I have a black friend, we call him Membudu which means big stick in his language so STFU. I would not be very convinced to be honest.
>>39777>For a game set in rural Bohemia your options are having a small number of black characters or none at all.I think the rule of average would say that the maximum would be around 0.000001% and the minimum stuck at none at all. When they practice overrepresentation you know it's just for good boy points but in truth they don't care at all, it may even piss them off.
Wasn't the main dev's shitter account full of hateful comments anyway? Are people falling for this marketing trick?
A game with a backdrop of trade between Ethopia and Syria would on the contrary be totally legit and thus the cultures could be explored with honesty. But who cares about honesty when they're just doing it for the exposure and racking in the coins?
>>39788>beheadedProbably not.
Torture and imprisonment was a given, defenestration at most.
Being beheaded for being the latest fighting companion for the Lord's son with a bad reputation wouldn't fly, especially if you're under the patronage of a more influential noble.
Really, peasants shouldn't be in contact with the nobility all that often, and drinking in the tavern with your subjects and getting into fistfights with them really wouldn't have been seen as anything other than trashy and would lowrr the prestige of the family, which was everything in the HRE.
>>39790>Really, peasants shouldn't be in contact with the nobility all that often, and drinking in the tavern with your subjects and getting into fistfights with them really wouldn't have been seen as anything other than trashy and would lowrr the prestige of the family,I like this kind of stuff. It's more entertaining, don't think anyone
realy wants Historical Accuracy, whatever thst means, and it serves to show with clarity how absurd and what its realy about when the topic inevitably comes up in Gamer spaces at first sight of a brown person or non fuckable woman with dialogue.
>>39755>If there are no "wokes" in mediaI guess that depends on what you mean by "woke."
If you mean that there aren't any genuine activists in the media, then yes you're absolutely correct.
If you mean that there aren't deliberate attempts by people in the media to pander to a particular brand of liberal and "theater kid" type, or that there aren't people in the media who basically think "representation" in fictional media constitutes some kind of magic spell, then you're demonstrably wrong.
A shining example is Overwatch. It's been nearly a fucking decade since they released Overwatch 1 and there still isn't a singleplayer campaign, or even a PvE mode! While they have hinted at some greater overarching narrative, it has all gone nowhere. Yet, we know all about all the fucking identity shit with the heroes, like their sexual orientation, gender identity, disabilities, etc. Great, Soldier 76 is gay and Tracer is a lesbian, but WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN IF THERE IS NO FUCKING STORY. You drew a shooting man character for your shooting game who only ever shoots other shooting men and has no story beyond that, pointed at them and said "they're non-binary and autistic." Wow, great fucking job, Blizzard.
>>39854I see these as 'pretend woke'
Like its some treats they toss out to prove they are good when like its just fluff and not actual 'woke' shit that would piss off shareholders and stufd
>>39862There are barely any of them to claim ow is virtue signaling, and their sexualities aren't brought up in game
You have to be a nerd and search for that shit
>>39863>>39868It was all literal publicity shit. Every time they've declared a character to be gay or autistic or something, it was a very deliberate and obvious PR move, not something buried in a wiki.
>>39866Because, and I cannot stress this enough:
There is no fucking story. >>39869>buried in a wiki.But it is tho, nobody knows Tracer and Soldier are gay unless you search their story in the wiki
There is no signs about anyone's sexuality in game except someone mentioning Reaper's wipe
>>39882There's nothing wrong with it. The problem is that it is meaningless
without a story to contextualize it in.It is about as meaningful as Miku Binder Thomas Jefferson. But this isn't someone's Tumblr page. This is a multi-billion dollar company.
>>39883They make announcements about it on social media, interviews, and various publicity events. Which is the point. It is pandering and digging for progressive brownie points at its most flagrant, at its laziest and at its most meaningless.
And that is a kind of "wokeness" if we're defining "woke" as pointless aesthetic slacktivist Tumblroid dedication to "diversity" and/or a superstitious belief about "representation" in media being some kind of magic spell.
>>39773Moor is a subclade of the North African type. Typically an Arabic or tanned Levantine character with perhaps a drop of European traits would fit the bill.
>>39780Inconsequential at best. No need to show them unless you go for a very specific and niche topic about a very unique event limited in time and space. Anything beyond that is unfit reverse cultural appropriation which contributes to weakening the legitimate claims from minorities by mocking and degrading the critique of the entire process.
>>39783Is this your excuse to shove in fake colored characters? That's just as bad as using some evidence for your ideological fight before being owned by the opposition because said evidence was faulty and planted by your opposition.
I am not going to prove a negative for you, especially since Black people have seldom bothered to leave their own native lands for thousands of years.
All of this is very divisive and puts the focus of warfare on racial differences. When claims of oppression are legitimate they should be heard. When they're not, there should be no room for them.
>>39784Yes because tokenism is nothing more than a cynical political trick.
>>39785The colored character is front and center then we're not looking at the accurate historical density population of foreigners in a rural Bohemia.
We should also consider if the representation in the game, devoid of any racist stigmata from the local population is anywhere accurate. The guy seems to be there as if it were just normal.
Would have this man even been legally allowed to roam the lands freely? Populations would be very suspicious of him and if anything the NPCs would all be talking about him as soon as he'd appear in some populated public place.
But here the NPC is just like any other native NPC but with a dark skin texture and some cultural peculiarities. It's impressive how we are expected to so easily ignore how xenophobic and cautious the people were.
I don't see anything really accurate there but the game sold itself on this pretense of grand accuracy. Another lame business trick that the white chuds fell for.
In fact they didn't care about the realism, they just wanted Racism: The Game, an excuse to have a full ciswhite environment, but as soon as the same lack of realism is turned against them, they cry and whine.
>>39788Your comparison of rural Bohemia with Miami Vice or Lethal Weapon is dubious, the latter two happening in totally different times and within mixed demographics.
>>39882In practice it's a form of integrationism where the ruling class controls the forms of that "representation", limiting it to a narrow spectrum of what the bourgeois consider acceptable. This has the effect of dividing up the actual community, often along class lines, between those that can actually or aspire to meet that spectrum of acceptability in order to integrate into bourgeois society and those that can't or won't.
At this point calls for "representation" are just requests for certain caricatures to be present in works of propaganda.
>>39920They absolutely are trying to push the idea that their shooting men are more than just shooting men and that there's supposed to be some big overarching plot beyond shooting men shooting other shooting men.
Take a look at the difference between the trailers for Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch 2. TF2 has always always known that its a shooting game about shooting men shooting other shooting men, and the shorts beyond this are mostly just comedy sketches where "this is a multiplayer versus game with no actual plot" is the central joke.
Now watch the Overwatch 2 trailer and tell me to my face that they're advertising this as a shooting man game with no plot.
>>39921TF2 may have even less "plotting" than an old id game, seriously.
Notice that later on for Doom games the plot started to grow, but it never became cumbersome to the point of requiring a fucking lore and episodes which is what you asked for OW.
>>39733When do we insert Stain Yakub in this?
>>39734Fine point but what about the sources?
Is that on the same level of Odin drinking semen?
>>40145This is true. Like I said, all the shorts I've seen about TF2 are basically jokes centering around the theme of this being a "red guys vs blue guys" versus game with no real plot. They completely mesh with the game itself.
All the Overwatch shit I've seen implies this grand plot that has nothing to do with the game itself. In fact, the plot as implied by trailers, shorts and character descriptions directly conflicts with the actual game. The plot implies this kind of X-Men style league of heroes who are in conflict with a bunch of villains who are in some kind of SPECTRE or Hydra-style council of shadows. Not only does the actual game allow for the heroes and villains to be on the same team, often the maps are goofy shit that has nothing to do with this seemingly serious plot, like one of them being in a Blizzard theme park.
>>40165Combat is hit-or-miss. Some people hate it, some love it. I belong to the latter, there is a joy to be found in having clunky difficulty combat system and figuring out ways to break it.
The downside is that game does not have that much in terms of story choices. You always play Henry of Skalitz, you follow linear main quest, side quests are also mostly simple tasks (with handful of more complex ones), map is big but empty. Still has 100 hours of contend though, you will get your moneys worth.
The main draw is mechanical depth and immersion.
>>40194All of that and I'm an adult with a life and so I might need to walk away from the PC at any moment. Or I might not even have enough time to sit down and play until I get another of those items.
The game shouldn't prevent me from saving over some pretentious design decision.
>>40153I got it+all DLCs for $12 CAD on steam during some sale
>>40205Thankfully it does let you save & quit
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