it brings me no pleasure to announce this, but it's peak. the furry twink has done it again. total tumblr teen victory. i can't sleep at night and my life is irrevocably changed.
62 posts and 14 image replies omitted.>>43417>>43418chapter 5 will prove you wrong
Without spoiling can anyone tell me if we find anything out about based Gaster
>>43419Maybe they dont mean humans as individuals but humans as a society/collective. One individual human cant fly for example but human society can got to a point where humans fly
For example we have tired exhausted individuals advocating for TND but as a society humanity might eventually do better
>>43419It's typical Christian messianism. Undertale, and Deltarune too, is fundamentally a Christian moral.
>>43419>Imagine you were in undertale. Imagine that you didnt have reset powers.terrible hypothetical
<"Imagine you were in Blood Meridian. Imagine that America is not a satanic settler society controlled by demons.Blood Meridian without ontological evil is a completely different book. Undertale is about how the Player echoes the story of Flowey, who becomes nihilist because of his ability to reset, to "complete the game" and "see all the alternate endings" like gamers want to do ("Undyne was so hard she stopped my genocide route" A true hero)
>>43442people surviving the holocaust: "We will outlive them" (dancing feverishly as fascist prison guards seethe)
Deltarune: EVERYBODY WAS DANCING
why did toby fox scrap so much stuff from chapter 3 when its already the shortest chapter man
>>43442
I didn't really like it either
I don't have anything else to add. Well made game though
>>43442
your preconceived notions aren't exactly a good argument about the popularity of undertale.
>>42911idk what youre talking about. the whole party turn management adds some more depth and the bullet patterns overall are way more complex and challenging than undertales. If anything after playing Deltarune, Undertale feels slow and easy.
>>42987most of the bosses arent that bad if you just save as much tp as possible to heal with ralsei. if you equip all the magic boosting items on him then he heals A LOT every turn.
>>43108burgerpants doesnt seem to happy ngl
>>43419I thought that the save/reset stuff worked well. Because we were determined to get the best ending, even if we died/got hurt/failed, we came back and tried again. Just like how real life endeavors might not be easy, but we stay determined and keep trying or something idk
>>43419>If instead a regular human was put into undertale, you know what would happen? A regular hman would have immediately chosen genocide because that's the logical outcome.I don't think we know enough about the world outside the underground to say this so certainly. For all we know it's been so long since monsters were locked away that humans just treat it like a nursery rhyme or something, we don't know the average human's feelings on monsters or anything, and the moment you hear one of them talk or have one of them try to be nice to you, I doubt you'd still be so willing ti jump to murdering everyone down there.
>>45326Anon, the point is that a human would break even if some monsters are kind. Imagine getting stabbed, burnt, gutted, drowned and etc by a lot of monsters you meet. imagine the exhaustion you feel crossing the underground, through hostile biomes. Imagine, not having the save powers so you cant take any potential risks.
Undertale relies on supernatural abilities for the pacifist ending to be possible. Even if you dont kill all monsters, you are probably going to kill some in self defense. Neutral is the most likely option
is the connection and differences between frisk and chara a form of Hegelian dialectics
>>43962Not familiar with Homestuck and Andrew Hussie, are you.
>>45335well that or you would just chill in the winter town at the start or something,if it's THAT dangerous.
I feel like humans are more about avoiding danger altogether in the first priority
>>45491>would just chill in the winter town at the start or something,if it's THAT dangerous.anon, theres a kill all human policy. Plus flowey exists.
Peace was never a option
I do not care for December Holiday.
The game keeps bringing her up in a way that's meant to evoke sympathy from the player, but it's so inorganic and distracting from the plot. It feels like I'm being told to care about her rather than actually form my own opinion on her. And I can already see the "she wasn't a good person" reveal coming from a mile away, and I'm dreading it because it'll just take even more time away from the main plot than it already has.
The internet is fawning (lol) over her anyway, of course, because she's a blank slate furry tomboy they can project whatever they like onto her. And if you have fun doing that, that's fine, but if I hear one more person tell me that she's more important and interesting than Gaster - you know, an actual character that's been set up and building up for over a decade - I'm gonna lose my shit.
Oh, and don't even get me started on how she's poisoned the Knight discourse. I've always thought she was the least interesting Knight candidate, and it's only gotten worse in the latest chapters - but if you point that out, or call out the plot holes, or suggest a different candidate, or even just say that you personally find it boring and thematically irrelevant, you're called a contrarian and get the same Gooseworx copypasta over and over again. Nobody has learned a goddamn thing from the Kris Knight days, and it shows.
I'm just so tired of hearing about her, and I just know it'll only get ten times worse when Chapter 5 drops.
>>45507Yeah, don't you just hate it when people are affected by the death of a loved one, and don't just shut up and get over it?
>>45507i prefer rudy knight than dess knight
>>45508>plotline about accepting death #24531YAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWNNN
>>45510dont worry anon, deltarune is based on mother 3. This means that everything will be restored back to normal. Dess will come back, alive.
>>45508Why should I give a shit about a Mary Sue like Noelle interrupting the story to talk about her sister who either has no bearing on the plot or, if she does later, is being presented in an inorganic way to retroactively justify that writing decision?
This isn't the real world, anon, this is a bunch of fictional characters that Toby had full creative freedom over. He could have easily written them differently (or, considering that Dess didn't exist as a concept until late 2017 at the absolute earliest, didn't have to write at all, which just reinforces how unnatural her inclusion in the plot feels).
>>45509I personally don't think Rudy is the Knight due to a few logistical issues (how does he put on the helmet? How does he know about darkness, let alone freeing a Titan? etc), but I would gladly take him as the Knight over Dess in a heartbeat because at least he's got a motive that we can work with.
>>45527>noelle>mary sueyou sir are a uyghur
>>45528She's beloved by everyone, inexplicably talented, the center of shipping wars, has a tragic backstory that's undeveloped and only used to garner sympathy for her, and the plot bends over backwards to make her the center of attention. Her only flaw is that she's a doormat, which is not only done better by a different character (Ralsei) but any growth in that regard gets retconned by the end of Chapter 2.
The best scenes with her are between her and Kris, but they're either limited to a secret route or completely undermined as soon as her crush shows up (to the point where she becomes kind of an asshole to them, like not acknowledging them being strangled to death by Giga Queen). On that note, my god, SO much of her screentime is used for what Toby clearly wants to be the endgame ship despite them having very little chemistry together; combine that with the Weird Route being framed as forced shipping between Noelle and Kris, and it comes off as the author being actively hostile to those who don't agree with his OTP (which, for the record, I personally don't care either way so long as it's written well, I just don't think Suselle has much going for it and I can see why people might be upset about the Weird Route being framed the way it is).
The few unique and interesting character traits she has (like an implied tendency for violence, or being a glitch hunter) are either limited to out-of-game content or are criminally underutilized (really, Toby? You didn't think to make her interest in glitch hunting prominent in the route based on doing exactly that?). Without those traits, she hardly stands out from the rest of the cast, which is a shame in a series like UT/DR with so many big and dynamic characters like Susie, Papyrus, Asgore, Alphys, Spamton, etc.
To her credit, she works VERY well in the Weird Route, and if she becomes a meta commentary on Mary Sues or "the girl" tropes in fantasy stories I'll take back what I've said. But Toby seems to be playing her straight so far, unfortunately.
She's just not a very well-written character IMHO and I can already see her taking up more screentime in Chapter 5 to keep making the same disaster lesbian joke over and over. Or worse, Rudy gets killed off purely so she can have some kind of development…
>>45536at first glance this seems suprisingly fair. However, I still want to smash your head in with a block for disrespecting my noelle
>>45527youd have to be such a fandom-brained retard to think the knight is anyone but dess lol
>>45484toby fox took the few good aspects of homosuck and the lips man and discarded all the garbage, especially the tvtropes addict nonsense
>>45536You don't understand what makes good writing, fundamentally.
>b-but I wrote an essay! that makes me right! >>45536>>45542yup this is exactly what i mean by tvtropes addict nonsense, your post is like a text version of ur average youtube video analysis
reminds me of people complaining about the possibility of dess being a plot device. well, whats wrong with that, narratively? morons who only
read consume fanfiction slop want everything to be le epic subversion these days
plus writing isnt all there is to a fucking video game so not only do you not understand writing you dont understand games either
>decided to post that summary in the 4chan doe general
<no one seems to disagree with it so far and some even support it
<meanwhile some anons here are hostile against it
nta but hmmmm
>>45544>why do people with an actual brain disagree with me, the midwits from not just 4chan, but some shitty general from the furry porn board agree with me!!!!fandom-brained retard status: confirmed, lmfao
>>45545>he assumes im that anon>he ignores that i posted this in the noelle general where people are obssesed with her. And thus would even irrationally defend herhmm hmmm hmmmm
>>45541You're literally proving my point
Dess Knight has a dozen different plot holes and contradictions (i.e. no means or motive, how the hell would a teenager know how to free a Titan, the Organikks straight up calling the Knight a man, the lyrics of Big Shot and Raise Up Your Bat putting Dess and the Knight at odds, no one seeing Dess leave the Library during Chapter 2, how Dess and the Knight are in two places at once multiple times, why the Knight would endanger Noelle, etc.), but instead of actually addressing these issues you just shit on everyone who calls this out or doesn't like the story it would tell. You're going to learn the same lesson about hubris that the Kris Knighters had to, I guarantee it.
>>45542Couldn't come up with a response? Sad!
>>45540Fair enough. You're welcome to enjoy the character, I personally just don't like her very much outside the Weird Route.
>>45550you know, the fact that the noelle fags on doe seem to agree with you is, quite interesting
>>45550Post chains like this remind me why I only rarely visit /leftypol/ nowadays.
Do you base your world view on the latest news post you saw too? Also, by the logic in the cap Susie is an equal candidate (she was just pretending in the church bro).
You're also so close to a realization with how Noelle is treated by the narrative. Dig a little deeper.
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