/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>1899703
>Blitzkrieg and Soviet breakthrough were different in application. Blitzkrieg saw tanks thrown at enemy positions, which led to massive tank casuaties, then German infantry was sent to guard the neck of the breach. Soviets did the sensible thing of probing attacks with infantry, infantry pushing and breaking the "thin place", and then fresh tanks rolling into the breach.

jesus christ this is gonna be a lot of half truths to unpack. okay.
1. German tank wedges were not dumb, but actually very successful early in the war because the defensive strategy of the day had all the anti-tank guns spread out along the line of defense and so a wedge of like 50 tanks would be crashing through 1-3 AT guns on average. This changed only when the Soviets shifted from spreading out the guns to concentrating them in strongpoints, combined with extra firing positions, AT rifles and surrounded by mines and tank trap. the area inbetween strongpoints was mined also and THIS is what led to high tank casualties for the nazis at Kursk.
2. Doctrinally both Germans and Soviets used large, concentrated, armoured sprearheads made of tanks tanks(with mechanized/motorized infantry support) plus artillery and air strikes to break through. Parcelling out your tanks is what the Brits and Americans did, because their tanks were there for infantry support and not high stakes, large volume tank on tank battles. Late war the western allies never had to face large numbers of nazi tanks except at the battle of the bulge anyway, so it wasnt a huge problem.
3. Deep operations are NOT about pushing everywhere and then finding the weak spot, like you say. That's retarded. nobody does that. Look at Operation Bagration. Concentration of forces, tanks, supplies etc at the two main prongs of the attack. Artillery, Air Strikes, coordinated armoured assault with motorized infantry backup, encirclement. Now please at least watch a goddamn documentary(i know asking you to read a book would be too much anyway) and stop talking nonsense.

>>1899733
nerd

>>1899773
i have no choice because westerners rarely learn themselves so i have to keep correcting them. sounds annoying but having to hear completely nonsense pseudohistory for years and years and then watch people draw conclusion from it is more annoying

>>1899578
>feels>reals ideology
>incoherent
>attracts feels>reals, incoherent people
First time?

>>1899491
You're an idiot, who doesn't know history. The biggest reason everybody initially agreed to to the Washington Naval Treaty was because nobody wanted a naval arms race with the United States.

>huge market share in cotton
>abundance of food that created price crises when exported
>70% of the world's oil production

>>1899541
I dont know about a lot of enlightenment era philosophy but our "liberal" government certainly betrayed the concept of the social contract for certain. Our government should provide something in return for taxation but they dont. They should offer a program of hope and human development but they dont. They lost the mandate of heaven pretty much as soon as the whiskey rebellion happened.

>>1899578
>chinese marxists are the best capitalists worldwide outcapitalisting burgerstan by the balls
Stop gifting our successes to the enemy you retard. China is winning because Socialism is a superior system, not because 'they are le better at capitalism'.

Leg status?

>>1893942
The comments in that video are proof we live in the shit timeline.
Stalin didnt kill enough nazis.

>>1893738
Im so happy you guys used my Jackson edit. Im truly happy.

>>1894316
>>1894434
>>1894533
They used my Jackson edit. You can see the others here:
>>>leftypol/1890825

>>1899965
https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/1881776.html#q1890825
i hope this works (im a retard uwu)

>>1899733
Why are you being wrong? >>1899379 Read the fucking Frunze already

<While the underdog material position requires to trade territory for enemy corpses:

>Some tools are available for this. The first and most important of them is the training and education of our army in the spirit of large-scale maneuver operations.

>The size of our territories, the ability to retreat a considerable distance without losing the ability to continue the fight, etc., represent a favorable ground for the use of strategic maneuvers, i.e. off the battlefield. Our command staff should be educated mainly on the ideas of maneuvering, and the entire mass of the Red Army should be trained in the art of quickly and systematically performing marching maneuvers. The experience of the last imperialist war in its initial stage, as well as the entire experience of our civil war, which was primarily of a maneuverable nature, will provide the richest material for study in this regard.

>>1895390
I guess they learned that from the mutts in iraq with that abraps and bmw.
Is it normal that I feel like supporting russia more and more with every cringe cargo-cult shitshow zeliboba's goons and handlers put out?

>>1900130
It's totally normal to want to see humans behave dignified

Any of you faggots play WARNO? I hate that fucking game but I dont feel man enough if I dont beat it but its so fuckin hard. Micromanagement is killing me. My brain doesnt work like that.
>Enemy sees my recon
>Bradley spam is OP
>Tanks drive like retards
Optics are dogshit
>Bradley OP
>Bradley OP
>Cant reuse units (no reinforcements)
World in conflict was so much more fun.
<This war is basically WARNO. Fuck this war and fuck WARNO
>Major Müller, GIBT MIR MORPHIUM!!!1!
<Also fuck Cold Waters, my torpedos are too slow and have traah homing and the enemy hears everything. But enemy torps lock on to me like a feisty hooker from suriname.
<Fuck submarines, I hate you

>>1900141
Can I offer you a nice map game?

>>1900144
If you say Hoi4 (starfullah spit on that game) I will launch a kinzhal at you. I built an AI to play it for me since i was too stupid to micromanage it.
>Now I have to figure out how to do it in WARNO
<Teach me your ways senpai oppai

>>1900012
Fuck patton. His death was one of the few things the US gov did right. Muh wrong enemy. What a loser kek

>>1900148
You could attribute his words to a Nazi, and nobody would notice.

>>1900152
Just look at how he and MacArthur crushed the American veterans of the "Bonus Army". Both were crypto-fascist goons.

>>1899891
China did a working NEP. High level capitalism is socialism on production/logistical level, its marxism 101, you just cull the private appropriation of profit and imit ownership of the means of production. Next step is just get rid of the "owner" through state (quasi)ownership, the system stays the same basically.

>>1900152
But wait there is more:
>The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European, but an Asiatic, and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese, and from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them, except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian have no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk
Indistinguishable from NAFOids

>>1900167
>amerikkka is an imperialistic fascist regime at the core, elites are reproduced according to ideology
surprise to fucking nobody

>>1900171
Stupendous analysis and understanding of things. Bravo.

Which war are we discussing?

TIL Zyuganov has received medal of Stolypin from Putin https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2024/04/24/1033746-zyuganova-nagradili-medalyu-stolipina

Stolypin was a guy who ordered mass hangings of revolutionaries in the aftermath of 1905 failed revolution

>>1900277
>The Stolypin Medal is an encouragement for merits in solving strategic tasks of the country's socio-economic development, including the implementation of long-term projects of the Government of the Russian Federation in the field of industry, agriculture, construction, transport, science, education, healthcare, culture and other areas of activity.

>The Stolypin agrarian reforms were a series of changes to Imperial Russia's agricultural sector instituted during the tenure of Prime Minister Pyotr Stolypin. Most, if not all, of these reforms were based on recommendations from a committee known as the "Needs of Agricultural Industry Special Conference," which was held in Russia between 1901 and 1903 during the tenure of Minister of Finance Sergei Witte.

Most likely this is the connection giving the medal its namesake significance.

>>1899886
What philosophy do you know?

>>1900012
>>1900167
why do trump have patton's eyes

>>1900282
they're practically twins in all respects, from appearance to reactionism to prancing queen behaviour

>>1900085
I'm not wrong. What do you think Soviet pre-war Mech Corps were for? Memes? Let's put all these tanks and motor infantry into one big unit to then disperse along the front again? Oh and before you return with first google search result headlines for "Red Army Mechanized Corps" as arguments: They were not dissolved/destroyed cuz of concept, but cuz of unit structure. Too many tanks and not enough trucks to supply them all led to a logistical nightmare that caused losses in itself and made existing losses worse. Mech Corps were built wrong, but for the right purpose. This is why when it came time to stack large amounts of tanks late in the war, they made type of Mech Corp that worked and called it a Tank Army.

>>1900312
Mech Corps were just understrength, lmao. They were reformed into smaller but full-strength units

>>1900312
>>1900315
Oh, and by the way, check out Soviet CAVALRY corps. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%81_%D0%A0%D0%9A%D0%9A%D0%90

Soviet cavalry corps had more tanks (128) than German tank divisions (126), lmao. Disregard retarded anti-Soviet propaganda about Soviet losses, they just assign to Soviets as much losses from any sources as possible, while German losses are an unholy excercise in necromancy and half-tanks

Look at the situation from a materialist point of view. If you want Soviet units that did similar-ish maoeuvres to Germans in 1941, it was Cavalry corps, they did breakthroughs and rear operations, a lot like those were used during the Civil war. As for Soviet "proper" tank divisions, those had a different purpose, as you can see from the unit composition

Putin said US will pay for the recent Dagestan terror attack. Did he actually do anything yet ?

>>1900333
>Putin
>Actually doing something against westoids
That's a good one

>>1900333
Maybe Russian mercs inside formerly American military bases.

>>1900315
Why do you keep lying? A 1941 standard, full Mech Corps had:
- 36k soldiers
- 1031 tanks
- 200+ armoured cars
- 1700 motorcycles
- 15 planes
- bunch of other miscellaneous shit
but only 5165 supply trucks. Seems like a lot? WRONG, retard. What you probably didn't even consider is that those trucks aren't just for transporting fuel, spare parts and ammo. A huge chunk of them is for transporting the 36k soldiers around so they can keep up with the tanks, bikes, etc. It's less than 5 trucks per AFV without counting all the extra shit. In 1943 they revised down the numbers (246 AFVs to 1800 trucks, roughly 1 to 7 and thats after cutting the amount of troops in half and getting rid of the 1700 bikes etc). They clearly had too few trucks in the 1941 pre-war version and very clearly addressed that problem.
>>1900322
Yes, Idiot. I know. Cavalry had to take over this role temporarily because the Mech Corps got destroyed in the first couple of months. 13k+ tanks GONE(it was mostly bad and obsolete light tanks). You're once again IGNORING the part of history where the Red Army had lots of tanks again and went on using them just like I described. Stop trying to square this circle. I know who you are. You're that freak who also cant shut up about how 28 million deaths overall is fake and ackshually its 7 million according to some musty ass website or something. Fuck off. After 20+ years of westerners dumbly trying to scrutinize my history from the right, I don't need another idiot who miraculously disrupted that established market by thinking hes scrutinizing me from the left. You're just as stupid as every boomer fudd retard, the myths you repeat are just astronomically less popular. Also FYI WW2 cavalry didn't usually fight from horseback before anyone starts bringing up those "poles charging tanks" stories . They got off the horses before beginning an assault and then get back on after .
Now go away.

>>1900341
>but only 5165 supply trucks
There were 2 tank divisions and 1 mechanized division inside a mechanized corps. Majority of 36k soldiers are logistics, not whatever stuuuuuurm detachments you think they were. And in regards to ludicrous losses, it's not true, since supposed gazillions of losses didn't put a dent in Soviet truck supplies

>Cavalry had to take over this role temporarily because the Mech Corps got destroyed in the first couple of months
And then he says I'm the idiot, lmao. Cavalry corps were direct descendants of Red Cavalry from Civil War. Their whole fucking shtick was to act like Red Cavalry from Civil War aka what tactics Germans stole from USSR for their Blitzkrieg. Soviet Cavalry corps in 1941 acted exactly like expected, break into the rear and do damage

>13k+ tanks GONE
USSR didn't have 13k tanks. That's literally a made up number. Soviets had a lot of tanks in storage, but as usual, like half of those tanks couldn't even start. Soviets had cavalry corps with proper number of working tanks, other units didn't, they had training tanks to fill the ranks at best. It's the same shit as lost aircraft based on German lies, and then based on Russian archivists inventing numbers to push them up to German lies. It's just not real, stop being retarded

>7 million according to some musty ass website or something
That's the number from Stalin himself, lmao. Are you calling Stalin a liar?

>Also FYI WW2 cavalry didn't usually fight from horseback before anyone
That's where you are wrong, buddy. Machinegun and mortars covered them with fire, and then cavalrymen did sable charges like it's Civil War. Scarily effective tactic against unprepared infantry units of Nazis. The last cavalry sable charge in history - 1942 against Romanians, where 4th Cavalry Corp has slaughtered 1500 Romanians in melee while losing only 30 men themselves

>>1900333
He summoned the US Ambassador and sent a strongly worded letter telling them to stop being bad and to not cross Red Line #23052738035785

>>1900352
On a side note I saw Douglas macgregor state he met the Russian general staff in 2001 and asked about ww2 casualties. He was told Soviet archives indeed state 15 million military casualties, which is what historians that look at the archives also suggest

>>1900361
Nah, it was a result of retarded recount of losses in 1990s. They claimed that they've went through all the soldier cards (which should have been destroyed according to archival rules anyway in like 1950s). I did research in other threads, Soviet employment figures accept up to 10 million losses at most, both civilian and military.

>>1900356
Lmao. Jokes aside I think he should have used the attacks in his favor to install some kind of weapon system in Cuba and should have said its to "protect freedom and democracy in Cuba" or some shit like that. Why cant the same thing murika is doing to them ? Murikans WILL NEVERR learn to stop expanding military hardware near Russia unless Russia does the same near burger state. Thats just the reality.

*Why cant they do the same thing

>>1900363
That would be capping Soviet casualties at a number only slightly higher than German.

>>1900378
Germans and puppets lost more, actually. They've managed to even it out a bit through genocide

>>1900379
>Germans and puppets lost more, actually
Good luck with this, seriously

>>1898926
I am from ukraine. her bones will fertilize our lands and russian lands. Exactly the same as napoleon's pet house negros centuries ago. Die as you lived westoids.

>>1900352
>There were 2 tank divisions and 1 mechanized division inside a mechanized corps. Majority of 36k soldiers are logistics, not whatever stuuuuuurm detachments you think they were. And in regards to ludicrous losses, it's not true, since supposed gazillions of losses didn't put a dent in Soviet truck supplies
Each tank division had itself a motorized brigade in it and a motorized division on top. That's at least 16k and then there are also 1700 fucking bikes and hundreds of arillerry pieces etc etc. Most of these guys weren't "logistics". Stop coping.

>And then he says I'm the idiot, lmao. Cavalry corps were direct descendants of Red Cavalry from Civil War. Their whole fucking shtick was to act like Red Cavalry from Civil War aka what tactics Germans stole from USSR for their Blitzkrieg. Soviet Cavalry corps in 1941 acted exactly like expected, break into the rear and do damage
you have a child's understanding of literally every topic you speak about. idk what to tell you. t5he table itself literally says that the large gain is partly due to truck being requisitioned out of the economy and domestic production.

>USSR didn't have 13k tanks. That's literally a made up number. Soviets had a lot of tanks in storage, but as usual, like half of those tanks couldn't even start. Soviets had cavalry corps with proper number of working tanks, other units didn't, they had training tanks to fill the ranks at best. It's the same shit as lost aircraft based on German lies, and then based on Russian archivists inventing numbers to push them up to German lies. It's just not real, stop being retarded
Yes they did exist. When the nazis invaded, there were 30 mech corps alone and those alone being half strength(as is usually the case in peace time) would fill up that number and then some. The tanks just werent were strong and on top of that not super well organized, as I have outlined previously. ALso why are you asserting that they were in storage and didnt work? where the fuck is that from? and tbh nice own goal there overall. you wanna deny mech corps Ls so bad, youve ended up denying soviet production capacity and war preparations. You're inching closer and closer to a typical chavinist westoid rhetorically.

>number from stalin
bro yeah he counted all of them personally.

>That's where you are wrong, buddy. Machinegun and mortars covered them with fire, and then cavalrymen did sable charges like it's Civil War. Scarily effective tactic against unprepared infantry units of Nazis. The last cavalry sable charge in history - 1942 against Romanians, where 4th Cavalry Corp has slaughtered 1500 Romanians in melee while losing only 30 men themselves
I said "usually", idiot. Not "on occasion". I myself have actually spoken to a veteran of the battle of Moscow who saw cavalry charging into a blizzard(which is viable cuz of the low visibility). They didn't do that every time, or even often. It happened relatively rarely, as I said before.

>>1900361
15 million military casualties is too high. its more like 8-11 million and that includes the 4 million murdered pows. casualties in this case include deaths, injuries that make u unable to serve and prisoners. if you count up those for all sides then it comes out to c.a. 1:1.34 for german+minor allies:soviets abd like 1:1.43 for ger+minor allies: western allies and you dont even need to invent anything, rest of the 28 millions is civilians the nazis killed during occupation. also stop believing this retard, he literally just makes shit up and preys on people with no prior knowledge.