https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ocalan-dissolve-pkk-historic-statementSome highlights:
>long history of violence from which the PKK emerged>emphasis on hundreds of years of alliance between Kurds and Turks>need for democratic solution, faith that now it is the time>respect to Bahceli and Erdogan’s calls to move on with a resolution>PKK (all armed groups) to leave weapons to engage in a democratic resolution processit's so over
>>2169312At the mention of PKK/HDP/DAANES/etc all the worst retards on the site come to shit it up and make sure no productive conversation will be had.
Blame the moderation.
"The PKK was born in the 20th century, in the most violent epoch of the history of humanity, amidst the two world wars, under the shadow of the experience of real socialism and the cold-war around the world. The outright denial of Kurdish reality, restrictions on basic rights and freedoms - especially freedom of expression - played a significant role in its emergence and development.
The PKK has been under the heavy realities of the century and the system of real socialism in terms of its adopted theory, program, strategy and tactics. In the 1990s, with the collapse of real socialism due to internal dynamics, the dissolution of the denial of Kurdish identity in the country, and improvements in freedom of expression, led to the weakening of the PKK´s foundational meaningfulness and resulted in excessive repetition.
Throughout the history of more than 1000 years, Turkish and Kurdish relations have been defined in terms of mutual cooperation and alliance, and Turks and Kurds have found it essential to remain in this voluntary alliance to maintain their existence and survive against hegemonic powers.
The last 200 years of capitalist modernity have been marked by primarily the aim of breaking this alliance. The forces involved, in line with their class-based interests, have played a key role in furthering this objective. With monist interpretations of the Republic, this process has accelerated. Today, the main task is to restructure the historical relationship, which has become extremely fragile, without excluding consideration for beliefs with the spirit of fraternity.
The need for a democratic society is inevitable. The PKK, the longest and most extensive insurgency and armed movement in the history of the Republic, found social base and support, and was primarily inspired by the fact that the channels of democratic politics were closed.
The inevitable outcome of the extreme nationalist deviations - such as a separate nation-state, federation, administrative autonomy, or culturalist solutions - fails to answer the historical sociology of the society.
Respect for identities, free self-expression, democratic self-organization of each segment of society based on their own socio-economic and political structures, are only possible through the existence of a democratic society and political space.
The second century of the Republic can achieve and assure permanent and fraternal continuity only if it is crowned with democracy. There is no alternative to democracy in the pursuit and realization of a political system. Democratic consensus is the fundamental way.
The language of the epoch of peace and democratic society needs to be developed in accordance with this reality.
The call made by Mr. Devlet Bahceli, along with the will expressed by Mr. President, and the positive responses from the other political parties towards the known call, has created an environment in which I am making a call for the laying down of arms, and I take on the historical responsibility of this call.
As in the case with any modern community and party whose existence has not been abolished by force would voluntarily do, convene your congress and make a decision; all groups must lay their arms and the PKK must dissolve itself.
I convey my greetings to all those who believe in co-existence and who look forward to my call.
February 25, 2025
Abdullah Öcalan"
>>2169356Bullshit word salad but contains enough ‘democracy’ and ‘hegemonic’ for the libs to swallow it
Ocalan TED talks coming soon in the American North East
>>2169368>Ahhhh the moment Assad’s gone and Al Qaeda rules Syria, Great Ocalan™️ doesn’t want to fight anymore>so much for the great libertarian socialist causeYou people are so fucking retarded it's painful. Ocalan has been on this shit for decades.>>2169375
>That’s most probably what happened! <Cutting of USAID this month paved the way for this loosening up by Turkey and allowance of meetings and an announcement from Ocalan which we have been waiting for since early January if not DecemberTo reiterate, you people are so fucking retarded, jfc.
Go to /pol/, it will be more your speed.
>>2169435>USAID cut>PKK immediately dissolvesYou are literally a schizophrenic drawing connections between things you're to unwell to even understand individuals.
Get on medication.
>>2169435>they were just a terrorist organization You and the state department are in agreement then.
>>2169368Clearly this was their plan all along when they formed the PKK in the fucking 80s. Plus it's not like the SDF are going to actually listen to him, they're already chalking it up to the fact that he's been in prison for 26 years.
>>2169641Kurds when they have to fight Turks:
>As in the case with any modern community and party whose existence has not been abolished by force would voluntarily do, convene your congress and make a decision; all groups must lay their arms and the PKK must dissolve itself.>I convey my greetings to all those who believe in co-existence and who look forward to my call.>February 25, 2025>Abdullah ÖcalanKurds when they have Armenians neighbors:
>Until the end of the nineteenth century, a patronage relationship existed between the Kurds and the Armenians characterized by a tax regime where the Kurdish tribes imposed a tax (the hafir) on their Christian neighbors in return for protection of their villages and pasture areas from the attacks of other tribes.>The ambivalence and gradual shift in Kurdish-Armenian relations in Kulp can be linked to certain episodes. Sassoun, for example, is the birthplace of the Armenian revolutionary movement in the 1880s, where the revolutionaries (fedai) left memories of admiration for their heroism, as well as condemnation for their betrayal. Two historic moments of Armenian resistance, in 1894 and 1904, were repressed with bloodshed by the Ottoman army, the Hamidiye Cavalry and local Kurdish tribes. Some of these tribes, such as the Xiyan, took this moment as an opportunity to confiscate Armenian land and property.>When I was a kid, the word Armenian always evoked an imaginary treasure in my mind. Many people believed that the Armenians buried their possessions before they left. At the time I started my fieldwork in Kulp and Silvan in 2013, the hunt for Armenian treasure was still going on. Many churches and monasteries had been excavated and ravaged in an attempt to discover hidden treasures, sometimes under the pretext of transforming them into mosques. While visiting villages for the interviews, I was warned several times not to mention that I was living in France, nor to ask any questions about the properties left by the Armenians. The villagers, I was told, would suspect that I was there to search for Armenian possessions on behalf of surviving descendants. >>2169849>>2169271Did a bit of reading, and I think there's a lot more context to it than "lmao, dissolve yourself".
Important context:
https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/070220251https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/25022025Article 1:
<"“They say let Ocalan call for disarmament. Let’s assume that he made the call. But this work cannot be done only through a call. We are a movement with tens of thousands of armed people. These fighters are not on a payroll to be sacked. These are ideological fighters. They have beliefs and are willing to sacrifice themselves. If the person who established the ideology, leader Apo, himself does not get involved physically or speak with the comrades, a call via video is not enough, he has to speak while free. If not, how can they [PKK fighters] be convinced to lay down arms?” Murat Karayilan said in an interview with the PKK-affiliated Sterk TV that was aired on Thursday.
<“Kurdish society has been tricked many times. They do not trust the Turkish state in terms of its policy. First of all, trust must be established. Steps have to be taken in this regard. There will be no [peace] process unless they change their language, actions and attempts,” he said.He was apparently referring to the short-lived peace process between the PKK and Ankara in 2013. Both sides blamed the other when it failed in 2015. While expectations for peace are high, regular clashes continue. Turkey has intensified its attacks on alleged positions of the PKK in the Kurdistan Region and Karayilan said that a peace process cannot begin until the fighting ceases.
<“There must be a ceasefire. How can we discuss the disarmament issue without a ceasefire?… There must be a bilateral ceasefire.… We are not lovers of weapons, but freedom and democracy and a just life. If this happens there will be no need for weapons,” he said."Article 2:
<"The upcoming message notably comes amid significant regional power dynamics. In her Monday remarks, Hozat also rebuked “allegations” from Turkish state-affiliated media suggesting that the PKK might be laying down arms. “All the news and narratives from [Turkish] state media about the end, exhaustion, and disarmament of the PKK stem from psychological warfare,” she said.
<She elaborated that Ocalan’s anticipated message would call for “a democratic resolution of the Kurdish issue and the democratization of Turkey,” adding that “if the Kurdish issue was resolved, we will definitely discuss disarmament.”
<The KCK co-chair’s remarks notably coincide with the renewed efforts of the pro-Kurdish Peoples' Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party), which has been mediating talks between Ankara and the PKK in a bid to end hostilities. Details of the process remain unclear, but officials from the pro-Kurdish party have stated that it aims to bring peace to the country."None of this is outside of the ideas put forth in the Roadmap for Negotiations, or in Beyond State, Power and Violence. I'm surprised by a board that claims to have "read the theory" but this speaks to the lack of engagement with the the theory itself (either 1. revolutionary peoples war and unilateral declaration of democratic autonomy or 2. detente with the state and building of democratic autonomy, the formulation of "state + democracy")
If the Turkish state won't meet the PKK and KCK's preconditions, then there's a likely hood there won't be disarmament and dissolution.
>>2169709>le kurds are anti-armenianMeanwhile:
https://anfenglishmobile.com/kurdistan/-77070
>The Committee for Peoples and Beliefs of the KCK issued a statement to send greetings to "the Christian peoples of the world are currently celebrating Christmas, and humanity in general is preparing for the transition into a new year."
<The statement said: "As the Kurdistan Freedom Movement, which strongly supports and struggles for the unity, equality, and brotherhood of all peoples and beliefs, we wish all Christians in Kurdistan as well as all Christian peoples of the world a merry Christmas. We strongly hope that in 2025 the wars in the Middle East and all over the world will come to an end and all humanity will have an equal, democratic, and free life in peace, tranquility, and brotherhood. We express our condolences to the relatives of those who lost their lives in the attack at the Christmas market in Magdeburg, Germany, on the eve of Christmas Day, and wish a speedy recovery to the injured."…
>The statement underlined that "the genocidal, fascist Turkish regime, which threatens all beliefs, cultures, and different peoples, particularly including the Assyrian and Armenian peoples living in the region, casts a shadow on the joy of the celebrations of our peoples and continues to threaten the peoples with its attacks. The genocidal, fascist Turkish regime knows no bounds in its attacks, displaying its hostility not only to the Christian faith in the region but also to Alevi, Êzidi (Yazidis), and Democratic Muslim circles. In the face of such genocidal and fascist aggression, it is most appropriate for the people of all peoples and faiths to form and strengthen a unity based on the understanding of the ‘Democratic Nation’ and do their part in building the new Syria. As the Kurdistan Freedom Movement, we wish that this year’s Christmas will be instrumental in the realization of the construction of a democratic, free Syria where the freedoms and authenticities of all peoples and beliefs are recognized and where equality, unity, and solidarity prevail. We believe that the peoples of all faiths living in Syria and Rojava can lead such a successful struggle."
>The KCK said: "On this occasion, we call on the peoples to be more organized, in solidarity and unity against the colonialist, genocidal, fascist powers and states not only in Kurdistan but all over the Middle East and the world. With these feelings and thoughts, we once again say Merry Christmas to the entire Christian world, especially our Armenian, Assyrian, and Chaldean peoples of Kurdistan, and we hope that 2025 will be a year in which all evils that oppose human conscience and morality will come to an end. We hope that everyone will contribute to implementing the will of the peoples to weave the model of coexistence in love, peace, brotherhood, and equality in the construction of Democratic Syria, and that 2025 will be the year of the victory of the struggle for the Democratic Nation in Rojava and all of Syria."…
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>>2169859https://anfenglishmobile.com/women/-75892
>Armenian Women's Union Coordination Member Anahit Kasabiyan stated that they will continue to struggle for the construction of a decentralised life in Syria where equality, justice and democracy will be ensured and all nations can live together.
>The Armenian Women's Union, which strengthened its organisations with the paradigm of Kurdish People's Leader Abdullah Öcalan, continues its work uninterruptedly. ANF talked to Anahit Kasabiyan, Member of the Armenian Women's Union Coordination, about the organisation of the Armenian Women's Union, the participation of Armenian women in all areas of life before and after the revolution and their 2nd congress.
>When was the Armenian Women's Union founded and what was its purpose?
<Armenian women had forgotten their identity within different nations. They knew they were Armenians, but there was nothing more than that. For this reason, we tried to raise awareness by coming together with Armenian women in Raqqa, Deir ez-Zor and Hesekê for three months before the first congress. During this period, 80 seminars were held on the history, culture and identity of the Armenian community. Through these seminars, discussions on the content of the congress were held with the women who came together, and the regulations were discussed.
<In fact, after these discussions, the draft of the system to be established for Armenian women emerged and the congress was held based on this preparation. With the slogan ‘The Armenian Women's Union resurrects itself after 107 years’, the Armenian Women's Union was declared at the 1st Armenian Women's Congress held on 30 August 2022. For the first time in 107 years, that is, after the Armenian genocide, an Armenian women's congress was taking place. We needed the Armenian Women's Union more than bread and water. A woman who does not live her identity, culture and does not know her history could face a new genocide at any moment. Therefore, I can say that we have guaranteed our existence with this union. In addition, Armenian women, who needed to be liberated from the male-dominated mentality, needed to organise with their own identity. In addition, it was a great danger for them to live with the cultures and histories of the society they lived in and the nations they lived with, but not to live their own history, culture and identity. Of course, most importantly, staying away from the developments in the Rojava Revolution, which is a Women's Revolution, living disconnected, not taking part in women's organisation would affect the development and transformation of Armenian women.
>What was the life of Armenian women before 2012? What kind of participation was there in all areas of life?
<Armenian women were involved in different fields before 2012. There was no situation that represented the Armenian people and kept their history, culture and identity alive. They had a position that was included in the system of the Ba'ath regime, was a part of this system and served this system. They were not in the struggle for change and transformation through the eyes of women or from the perspective of free women. They were subject to what existed. The bitter effect of the state system was effective on women, and it would not be wrong to say that Armenian women had no will. Such a picture was also reflected in social relations. In this context, Armenian women and community were indistinct in society and had lost their identity.
>What kind of change took place with the revolution?
<Historically, the Armenian community has gone through difficult times, lived in various geographies, and had the chance to protect, preserve and pass on its identity, culture and rights to new Armenian generations in the process. Before the establishment of the Armenian Community Council, we were involved in military, political and social activities, and we became stronger through organisation. These military, political and social activities greatly influenced the organisation of the Armenian community. The endeavour to form a strong community enabled them to preserve their own identity. The establishment of the Council with the revolution allowed this organisation to become stronger and more systematic. The Armenian community is now able to organise social events to keep their language, religion and traditions alive, thus ensuring social solidarity. There are approximately 130 political parties representing the so-called Armenian community worldwide. However, when we look at the regulations, researches and struggles of these parties, we do not see an approach that protects and observes the rights of the Armenian community. For this reason, as the Armenian community living in Northern and Eastern Syria, we will establish a political party led by women.
>You said that you came together with many Armenian women and organised discussions and seminars. What were the views of Armenian women on the Rojava Revolution during these activities?
<The Rojava Revolution was evaluated as a model that allows women to take an active part in political and military fields. The fact that the women's movement in Rojava co-operated with other ethnic and religious groups and encouraged solidarity was seen as an important step by Armenian women, and they were impressed by this approach. Such interaction offered an opportunity for peace and harmony between different communities. The fact that women in Rojava took an active role in the military arena and participated in the war was inspiring for many Armenian women. This reinforced the presence of women in the struggle for peace and freedom and set an example for the younger generations. The wind of change created by the Rojava Revolution in the social structure strengthened Armenian women's belief that similar transformations should take place in their own community as well. There has been an awareness that the role of women in social life needs to be redefined. Armenian women think that the women's movement in Rojava also sets an example in terms of protecting and expressing their own cultural identity. The endeavour to keep the cultural richness of different ethnic groups together allows their own culture to take part in this process.
>What kind of road map do you have as Armenian women for Syria-Syria dialogue?
<As the Armenian community and women, we are involved in the activities for Syria-Syria dialogue. We have closely witnessed the sacrifices and bloodshed in Northern and Eastern Syria and the Armenian people have played a major role in this revolution. For this reason, we are directly involved in the activities and solutions offered to resolve the crisis. We will continue our struggle for the construction of a decentralised life in Syria where equality, justice and democracy will be ensured and all nations can live together. Due to the current crisis, beyond the institutions and organisations representing the Syrian people, many states have settled in the region in line with their own interests. This is being done in line with plans to disrupt the integrity of Syria and to disintegrate its unity.
>How do Armenian women living in Northern and Eastern Syria evaluate the paradigm of Kurdish People's Leader Abdullah Öcalan?
<All Armenian women living in the region are organising and strengthening themselves in line with Leader Apo's (Abdullah Öcalan’s) philosophy. Leader Apo's ideas and thoughts, his predictions, the paradigm he developed was not only for the Kurdish people. It is a paradigm that appeals to all peoples. Armenian women argue that Leader Apo's ideas will bring a solution for the peoples of the Middle East and the world. They realise that the key to the solution lies with Leader Apo. Therefore, ensuring the physical freedom of Leader Apo is our priority and, especially, his physical freedom is vital for women. The solution to the persecution and genocide against the Armenian people also lies with Leader Apo.
>The 2nd Congress of the Armenian Women's Union was held on 7 January. What kind of transformation was achieved with the congress?
<First of all, a coordination was needed for the Armenian Women's Union to carry out healthier and stronger work. Therefore, the Coordination of the Armenian Women's Union was established. It was decided that the representative offices of the Armenian Assembly and the Armenian Women's Union would be located in the Autonomous Administration offices. Small economic projects will be established for Armenian women to develop themselves and take their place in society. In the Armenian Language Course to be established, ideological education for women will be highlighted. The participation of Armenian women in the Armenian Military Council will be strengthened and their participation in the Armenian political party to be established will be ensured. We will consider this year as a year of education in order to achieve better development and transformation in the intellectual dimension. In addition, an Armenian Women's Union will be organised in Raqqa.>>2169876
>ethnonationalistLol, ok.
>>2169867An ethnonationalist movement comprising of armenians, yazidis and arabs…
You know if you actually read the theory and "organised with kurds" like you said you did, you'd know this would be a bunch of bogus.
>>2169887>muh kurdish propaganda>muh bleached kurds>muh degeneracy Note that you don't actually have any arguments and resort to name-calling and buzzwords.
>tell them about the primacy of patriarchy before class society and that woman was the first opressed 'class.Ok and?
If you bothered reading the pamphlet on jineology I handed to you in the Luigi thread you'd know there's merit to this argument.
But again, you don't actually read or engage with any of this theory.
post chin btw >>2169885Pretty much. Even the PKK leaders made a statement in regards to Apo.
https://x.com/xoseric/status/1895187899387387944“There is no such thing as a declaration that will fix everything and bring peace. That will never happen. Everything must be seized through struggle, and even then, only by clawing it out with teeth and nails. It won't be solved by merely signing a statement.”
>>2169907The "Kurdish Project" which has factions of Kurds fighting amongst eachother (PKK and YPG fighting the Iraqi Kurds and KRG), is fighting a NATO member and still has control over its own resources as opposed to selling them or having them put under control of USA companies?
https://rojavainformationcenter.org/2020/08/did-mike-pompeo-mislead-congress-about-syrias-oil/You don't have facts, you have schizophrenic delusions. And a lack of a jawline by the looks of it. Your argument (if it can even be called that) is a bunch of incoherent drivel.
>>2169914>The "Kurdish Project" which has factions of Kurds fighting amongst eachotherMaybe this is interesting but I wound up in the middle of a Kurdish demonstration outside a Trump rally right when Turkey was going into Afrin, because Trump barnstormed into town and I wandered down to check out the MAGA hats, and just randomly saw this angry cloud of Kurd diaspora protesting and shouting. I was like what hell that's cool as fuck. I also know how to chant "biji biji rojava."
But it was mostly Iraqi Kurds and there was at least one KRG flag. So my sense is that Kurds will back up other Kurds, but when some of the young women got a "biji biji YPG" chant going, I felt some tension in the crowd. I don't think everyone was cool with that. That's a specific political and paramilitary organization.
The Trump supporters were really confused BTW. They had no idea what was going on. "Is this antifa..?"
>>2169923Wow, it's almost as if Kurds aren't a monolith and have differing opinions just like any other human being.
Shocker.
>>2169275Because they got what they wanted already.
Assad is out and a puppet is installed in Damascus, the puppet in Damascus won't oppose Israel and will prevent Iran from supplying Hezbollah.
The Kurds are no longer needed, they can just die.
>>2170146It's for propaganda purposes but these groups are ultimately just American proxies, they will exist so as long as the US is willing to send shekels.
I think the US is still interested in fostering chaos in Syria, since the Zionists are just so utterly incapable of fighting even the weakest groups (as seen by their horrible performance against a severely weakened hezbollah), so keeping Syria in chaos is benefitial.
>>2169339What are you talking about?
They are little more than a US proxy.
Nothing communist about a group whose very existence is reliant in US support.
>>2169914These SDF terrorists have little to no legitimacy outside Zionists circles as they have proven time and time again to be little more than a US proxy.
Assad was the only true anti colonialist socialist actor in Syria.
All the rest are just clowns with a role to play.
>>2170143Not at all. The YPG and the PKK although similar, are pretty much separate orgs. Rojava does, without a doubt, take a lot of influence from the PKKs policies, and are in league with them, but they're hardly an extension of the PKK themselves.
>>2170150>>2170148>>2170149
>SDF terrorists >muh zionists >american proxies Never mind the fact that the PKK is still fighting israel and Rojava has taken in thousands of Lebanese refugees who had their homes destroyed by Israelis.
https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/14102024The absolute delusion ITT.
>>2170154It's likely the PKK will keep on fighting. Not the first time "peace talks" between Turkey and the PKK have happened.
Besides it's not as if the PKK didn't predict that Apo would make such a call: they did.
https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/070220251
>ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - A top commander of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) said that the group will not heed to a call for disarmament from its jailed leader Abdullah Ocalan unless he physically meets with them and Kurds are guaranteed their rights in Turkey.
<“They say let Ocalan call for disarmament. Let’s assume that he made the call. But this work cannot be done only through a call. We are a movement with tens of thousands of armed people. These fighters are not on a payroll to be sacked. These are ideological fighters. They have beliefs and are willing to sacrifice themselves. If the person who established the ideology, leader Apo, himself does not get involved physically or speak with the comrades, a call via video is not enough, he has to speak while free. If not, how can they [PKK fighters] be convinced to lay down arms?” Murat Karayilan said in an interview with the PKK-affiliated Sterk TV that was aired on Thursday.…
>Amid renewed efforts to end four decades of conflict, Turkish officials and politicians have intensified their demands on the PKK to lay down arms. Media reports indicate that Ocalan is expected to make that call.
>Karayilan, however, urged caution.
<“Kurdish society has been tricked many times. They do not trust the Turkish state in terms of its policy. First of all, trust must be established. Steps have to be taken in this regard. There will be no [peace] process unless they change their language, actions and attempts,” he said.
>He was apparently referring to the short-lived peace process between the PKK and Ankara in 2013. Both sides blamed the other when it failed in 2015.
>While expectations for peace are high, regular clashes continue. Turkey has intensified its attacks on alleged positions of the PKK in the Kurdistan Region and Karayilan said that a peace process cannot begin until the fighting ceases.
<“There must be a ceasefire. How can we discuss the disarmament issue without a ceasefire?… There must be a bilateral ceasefire.… We are not lovers of weapons, but freedom and democracy and a just life. If this happens there will be no need for weapons,” he said.
<A major decision like disarmament requires the approval of the party leadership, not just Ocalan, the commander said.
<“The PKK congress has to meet and make such a decision. Who can do this all? Leader Apo. He can call for a congress meeting and speak with them physically several times. This is not a normal issue,” he said.
>Ocalan has been kept in Imrali island prison since his arrest in 1999. Karayilan said he should be released.
<“Our comrades will not be convinced to lay down arms unless Leader Apo is released. Some say that the lifting of isolation is a solution. But this is not enough. Leader Apo has to be released. This stage has arrived. He has to be released so that this process can proceed,” he said.
>After being denied visits for years, Ocalan has recently been allowed to meet with family and lawmakers from the main pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party) who are mediating talks between the PKK and the state. >>2170155They don't trust the turks but trust the Zionists and the Americans who bombed the shit out of Iraq and made into a disfunctional shithole by funding various terrorist groups?
I mean, fuck Turkey but it's shit like this why the these various Kurdish terrorist groups will never be taken seriously.
>>2170157>they trust the zionists Conflating the KRG and the PKK again?
Or Iraqi Kurdistan with Rojava again?
Never mind Israel considers the PKK terrorists and said PKK has aided in Palestenian resistance against israel:
https://merip.org/2020/08/the-kurdish-movements-relationship-with-the-palestinian-struggle/
>Israel is the only country that recognized and supported the Kurdish referendum in Iraq in September 2017—photographs even show Israeli flags being flown in Erbil and Sulaymaniyah. Israel’s camaraderie toward Kurdistan, however, seems to extend specifically to Iraqi Kurdistan whose leadership is far from revolutionary.In stark contrast to Israeli support for the northern Iraqi leadership, Netanyahu firmly opposes the PKK that is on the frontlines of resistance to the bombing of Kurdish villages in Turkey. In fact, the alliance with Iraqi Kurdistan in particular serves Israel’s geopolitical interests in the region. Currently, up to 77 percent of Israel’s oil supplies come from the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).
Need i remind you that the PKK is currently in conflict with the KRG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Region%E2%80%93PKK_conflict >>2170148>It's for propaganda purposes but these groups are ultimately just American proxiesEnough with this shit. Why would the US want to cripple one of the most important NATO members with Kurdish secession? Why would Russia be friendly with the SDF if they're nothing but a US proxy? Why would the SDF and KRG hate each other despite the fact that they're both supposedly US proxies? This shit is obviously absurd to anybody who knows anything about these groups and their relationship to one another and surrounding governments. It's literally a child's idea of how geopolitics works, as if these groups can't have their own agendas even when they work with larger powers.
>as seen by their horrible performance against a severely weakened hezbollahAh yes the "horrible performance" where they achieved all their war aims and Hezbollah achieved none of theirs. Not to mention that Israel is apparently so weak and hapless that they're just taking Syrian territory with impunity and the new government barely even protests.
>>2170169>Enough with this shit. Why would the US want to cripple one of the most important NATO members with Kurdish secession? Are you denying the US support for various Kurdish group with the aim of sinking the region into chaos?
Anyhow, the US uses the kurds as leverage against Turkey.
It's the same reason the US supported ISIS against Assad, in spite of the US despising Islamists.
> Ah yes the "horrible performance" where they achieved all their war aims and Hezbollah achieved none of theirs.Israel stated goal was the destruction of Hezb, you can look up bibi statement on that, their hidden goal was the annexation of Lebanon.
The failure of the Zionists to utterly destroy hezb after they managed to take out their leadership, exhaust them in the long Syrian civil war and than proceed to take over Lebanon, is a testament to their utter ineptitude.
The fact that bibi isn't celebrating in Beirut right now is a complete failure.
That being said I wouldn't say that hezbollah won either, they just didn't lose as they continue to exist.
>>2170174>You mean like how Assad's entire government instantly collapsed the moment their main foreign backer was distracted? Clearly the SDF has more organic legitimacy than the Ba'athists did.Assad goverment lasted for 5 years against the US/Israel and NATO along with their various proxies, Russia's supported was limited to carrying out air strikes.
Assad managed to last for 12 years, the collapse of the goverment was due to an internal coup not inablilty to fight.
Furthremore, the Syrian bathist regime is quite old and existed long before Russia even entered the ME.
>>2170171>>Not to mention that Israel is apparently so weak and hapless that they're just taking Syrian territory with impunity and the new government barely even protests.Well, of course, the American backed Islamist groups have been collaborating with the Zionists since the start of the war against Syria, this is well know.
Not sure, why you think that makes Israel strong somehow.
A state so pathetic that it has to rely on the US/NATO and their proxies to defeat the weakened bathist.
>>2170174>You mean like how Assad's entire government instantly collapsed the moment their main foreign backer was distracted?Assad should have fallen 12 years ago than or during the Soviet collapse.
Nothing you say makes sense.
You are either a Zionist shill or a moron.
Not sure which.
>>2170192>The US was doing the opposite of what you claims, despite their distaste for him they saved Assad's govt by bombing ISIS Never happened.
Most US Bombing was limited to targeting the SAA, the US has bankrolled ISIS since the start, you can see them rolling in with their American made toyatas and javelins.
Futhremore, the US simply rebranded ISIS as HTS and proceeded to back those.
Even their claim is destroying the ISIS leader is basicly by ZERO evidence, they presented footage of a bomb exploding.
That's it, the asset acting as ISIS leader probably just went home to tel Aviv.
>and their goal was to limit potential chaos as it would have been a bad thing for business, otherwise he would have fallen long beforeKek!
The Americans literally armed, financed and provided air cover to every group fighting based Assad.
They all failed ultimately so plan B was to get an internal coup against Assad going which ultimately succeeded.
You are so utterly divorced from geopolitical reality, that I have come to simply ignore your opinions.
>>2170182>Are you denying the US support for various Kurdish group with the aim of sinking the region into chaos?"Various Kurdish groups" lmao. You're deliberately drying to muddy the waters by lumping numerous distinct entities (some of which despise each other) into a single monolith. I'm denying that they support the PKK. On the contrary they've considered the PKK a terrorist organization for since its inception and its fighting against their largest regional ally. I'm also denying that their support for the SDF deprives the latter of the ability to have an independent agenda.
>Israel stated goal was the destruction of HezbNot in this conflict. It was forcing Hezbollah to withdraw from the war so that they could return civilians to the settlements on the northern border. At the very least Hezbollah clearly failed to achieve their goal, which was forcing Israel to withdraw from Gaza, which they also didn't achieve. At worst then you'd have to call the fighting inconclusive.
>Assad goverment lasted for 5 years against the US/Israel and NATO along with their various proxies, Russia's supported was limited to carrying out air strikes. No, Russia provided them with weapons (including heavy weapons like tanks, aircraft, artillery, etc), special forces/Wagner fighters, diplomatic support, economic aid and air strikes. Iran for its part basically ran the war for them by sending IRGC advisers to command pro-government troops, and Hezbollah fighters did a lot of the actual fighting for them. The Ba'athists relied MUCH more heavily on foreign support than the Kurds have, and it shows in how quickly they collapsed once it was partially withdrawn.
>Furthremore, the Syrian bathist regime is quite old and existed long before Russia even entered the ME.Yeah sure they may have had a lot more popular legitimacy decades ago, but since the outbreak of the civil war their legitimacy pretty clearly crashed hard and by the end nobody actually cared about them enough to defend it.
>>2170416>No, Russia provided them with weapons (including heavy weapons like tanks, aircraft, artillery, etc), special forces/Wagner fighters, diplomatic support, economic aid and air strikes. Iran for its part basically ran the war for them by sending IRGC advisers to command pro-government troops, and Hezbollah fighters did a lot of the actual fighting for them. The Ba'athists relied MUCH more heavily on foreign support than the Kurds have, and it shows in how quickly they collapsed once it was partially withdrawn.Incidentally, Russia was also the only external party that held the position that the Syrian state should accept DAANES, the USA never held this position for example.
Unfortunately the Kurd-derangement obsessives and 'ziggers' on this site live in a fantasy of their own making, pathetically for no other reason than to take a contrarian position and have arguments on the internet.
lets see if this works or it's a charlimit placed on the onion
==DEM Party to meet for three days to evaluate Öcalan’s historic call=
After a meeting with Abdullah Öcalan, the İmralı Delegation of the Peoples’ Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party) held a press conference in Istanbul yesterday and announced Öcalan’s ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’. The Kurdish leader called for the PKK to lay down arms, to convene its congress and make a decision.
According to the DEM Party Press Office, the Party Assembly (PM) and provincial co-chairs will convene on Sunday under the presidency of Co-Chairs Tulay Hatimoğulları and Tuncer Bakırhan. The meeting will reportedly take place at the party's headquarters in Balgat, Ankara.
On Monday, the Central Executive Committee (MYK) will convene at the building in Büklüm. On Wednesday, a meeting will be held in Balgat under the presidency of the co-chairs.
Mazlum Abdi: No excuse for Turkey to attack if peace succeeds
Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) General Commander Mazlum Abdi participated in a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, DC via Zoom, where he discussed the situation in Syria and North and East Syria, as well as Abdullah Öcalan’s historic call.
Abdi stated: "Mr. Öcalan's call was directed at the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) and its guerrillas. It was not specifically intended for our region. He conveyed the same message to Southern (Başûr) Kurdistan and other regions, including ours."
Abdi highlighted that Öcalan's message represents a positive development and a call for peace, adding that if implemented, it would further strengthen democracy in Turkey.
Abdi continued: "The relationship between the PKK and Turkey, along with the establishment of peace, will also impact our region. If this process succeeds, it will have a positive effect on us, and Turkey will have no justification to attack our region."
Salih Muslim: Leader Öcalan made a historic call. The ball is now in the Turkish state's court
Speaking to ANF following Abdullah Öcalan's historic call on 27 February, Salih Muslim, a member of the Presidential Council of the Democratic Union Party (PYD), said that ensuring Öcalan’s physical freedom is essential for this historic step to progress. He added: "Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] has made a historic call, and now the ball is in the Turkish state's court."
Leader Apo must be in direct contact with the PKK
Salih Muslim underlined that Leader Apo has opened the door to a political solution to the Kurdish question: "From now on, - he said - the responsibility falls on the Turkish state. Leader Apo has called for the PKK to hold a congress and dissolve itself. For this to happen, Leader Apo must be in direct contact with the PKK and determine the course to be followed. The realization of this congress depends on Turkey demonstrating its intent."
The Kurdish question can be resolved through politics
Muslim said that Leader Apo clearly explained why they initiated an armed struggle, and added: "The armed struggle started to ensure the people's security in the context of self-defense. If the state takes democratic steps in political, cultural, linguistic, and security aspects, the Kurdish question can reach a stage where it can be resolved through politics. If the process advances in this manner, there will be no need for armed struggle. The Kurdish question is now being discussed internationally and has become a global issue. Therefore, the Kurdish people have reached a level where they can conduct political and diplomatic struggles."
A change in Turkey will reflect on Kurdistan
Muslin said that the Turkish state is the one waging hostility against the Kurdish people in all four parts of Kurdistan. He continued: "If a solution cannot be reached in Syria today, and Iraq and Iran are in chaos and crisis, the Turkish state is responsible. Because Turkey does not want the Kurdish people to attain their rights. In this context, if there is a change in Turkey, it will directly reflect on other parts of Kurdistan. Therefore, when the leadership makes a decision, it considers everyone's opinion, including the KDP, the PUK, and other parties. Indeed, the Kurdish question can be resolved through political and social organization and struggle."
The progress of this process will bring a solution to Syria
Muslim said: "For this reason, the door to a political solution has been opened. This is a very important step. And it is also gratifying. The presence of the Turkish state in Syria has been an obstacle to the Kurdish people attaining their rights. The advancement of such a process means that a solution will also be reached in Syria, and Turkey refraining from intervening in Syria will lead to positive developments."
Öcalan’s physical freedom must be ensured
The Turkish state must take concrete steps for the PKK congress to be held, said Salih Muslim, adding: "The PKK has previously stated that the congress cannot take place unless Leader Apo’s physical freedom is ensured. Therefore, Leader Apo’s conditions must immediately change, he must be released from Imrali, and his physical freedom must be secured so that the historic step he has taken can continue. Leader Apo has made a historic call, and now the ball is in the Turkish state’s court. Thus, this process will progress step by step. Leader Apo has opened the door to democratic politics; the rest depends on the steps the Turkish state will take. These steps should begin with measures such as the release of political prisoners and the end of government-appointed trustees. Steps must be taken together. Moreover, it should be understood that this is a long-term process that cannot be concluded in a single day."
The Turkish state must call a ceasefire
Salih Muslim emphasized that it is unacceptable for the Turkish state to call for disarmament while continuing its attacks. He said: "The Turkish state is attacking on one hand while saying, ‘Put down your weapons’ on the other. If the attacks continue, how can the PKK lay down its arms? The Turkish state’s stance is a call for surrender. The guerrillas and the Kurdish people will not accept this surrender. If the Turkish state wants disarmament, it must listen to Leader Apo’s historic statement. Since 1984, the Turkish state has been waging relentless attacks against the guerrillas. The guerrillas are engaged in self-defense; they are not in an offensive position. Therefore, the Turkish state must declare a ceasefire. Following Leader Apo’s call, the Turkish state must take steps. The first phase of this step is the declaration of a ceasefire. If a practical ceasefire is implemented, it will lead the PKK to take further steps as well."
Everyone must fulfill their duties and responsibilities
Salih Muslim issued a call: "The solution to the Kurdish question has reached a new stage. In such a new process, everyone has duties and responsibilities. Above all, the Kurdish people and other communities must approach the issue with a sense of duty and responsibility. We are going through a sensitive process, and our burden is heavy. We see the steps taken as significant and express our hope for the future."
Instead of having some dumb bitch argument, let us assess:
What is the actual, real position of Rojava in the current political climate of the middle. What are the HARD, UNDISPUTED facts about their situation.
What is their relationship to the new ISIS regime? What is the current position between them and Turkey? How do other actors such as Iran or Israel relate to the situation, and how do the various outcomes stand to benefit them? What of the superpowers, Russia and The US?
After this, we should then ask, is he correct, at this time to want the org to disarm?
Personally I think its lunacy, at this time of hot and increasing global heat. But maybe he knows better, given he is who he is.
>>2171393Abdi's already saying it doesn't apply to the SDF, and only the PKK.
Also this was left out:
After the reading of the call, Sırrı Süreyya Önder, member of the DEM Party's İmralı delegation and DEM Party Parliamentary Deputy Chair, conveyed Öcalan’s additional note, which said, "Undoubtedly, the laying down of arms and the dissolution of the PKK in practice require the recognition of democratic politics and a legal framework."
Why this paragraph was not included in the text presented by Abdullah Öcalan in his own handwriting has been one of the matters of curiosity since yesterday.
According to the information obtained by the Mesopotamia Agency (MA), the paragraph in question was included in the text after talks with state officials.
Sharing this paragraph with the İmralı Delegation, Öcalan said that the text was drafted on February 25, but after his intensive contacts with state officials, they agreed that this paragraph should also be included in the statement.
PKK: We will comply with Leader Öcalan's call, we declare a ceasefire
The Executive Committee of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) released a statement in response to the historic call made by Kurdish leader Abdullah Öcalan on 27 February. Öcalan highlighted the importance of paving the way for democratic politics and Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood and called on the PKK to lay down arms.
The PKK Executive Committee's written statement titled 'To Our Patriotic People and Democratic Public Opinion' reads as follows:
“Leader Abdullah Öcalan's February 27 statement titled “Call for Peace and Democratic Society” is a Manifesto of the Age that illuminates the path of all forces of freedom and democracy. We respectfully salute Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] for presenting such a manifesto for democratic society to our people and humanity.
<A new historic process is beginning in Kurdistan and the Middle East
It is clear that a new historic process is beginning in Kurdistan and the Middle East with the Call in question. This will also have a great impact on the development of free life and democratic governance worldwide. The responsibility on this basis belongs to all of us; everyone must embrace their duties and responsibilities and fulfill the requirements.
<We agree with the content of the call as it is
Undoubtedly, being able to make such a call was of historic importance; now, the successful implementation of its content is of similar importance. We in the PKK agree with the content of the call as it is and state that we will fully comply with and implement the requirements of the Call on our part. However, we would like to underline that democratic politics and legal grounds must also be secured for its success.
<We are carrying historic achievements into a new phase of resistance
It is very clear that the PKK has been the great heroic and true movement of the last half century in Kurdistan. Everything was won through a very brave and self-sacrificing struggle, with a price and labor. We remember all the heroic martyrs of this great freedom struggle with deep respect, love and gratitude. Now, in the same spirit and conviction, we are carrying these historic achievements into a new phase of resistance. The awareness developed by Leader Apo and the great legacy of experience created by the PKK give our people the strength to continue the struggle for the good, the true, the beautiful and freedom on the basis of democratic politics.
<We are declaring a ceasefire effective as of today
In this context, in order to pave the way for the implementation of Leader Apo's Call for Peace and Democratic Society, we are declaring a ceasefire to be effective from today on. None of our forces will take armed action unless attacked. Beyond this, only the practical leadership of Leader Apo can make matters such as laying down arms practical.
<Leader Apo must personally direct and lead the Congress
On the other hand, we are ready to convene the party congress as Leader Apo wants. However, in order for this to happen, a suitable security environment must be created, and Leader Apo must personally direct and lead it to make it successful. Up until now, we have led the war to this day - with all its mistakes and shortcomings. However, only Leader Apo can take over the leadership of the era of peace and democratic society.
<Leader Öcalan must be granted conditions to live and work in physical freedom
The concrete facts clearly show that in order for the Call for Peace and Democratic Society to be successfully implemented, for the democratization of Turkey and the Middle East based on a democratic solution to the Kurdish question, and for the development of the global democracy movement, Leader Abdullah Öcalan must be granted with conditions to live and work in physical freedom and establish unhindered relationships with anyone he wants, including his friends. We hope that the requirements of this will be fulfilled by the relevant institutions of the state.
<The Call by Leader Apo is definitely not an end, but rather a new beginning
Our Esteemed People and Friends!
The Call made by Leader Apo is definitely not an end, but rather a new beginning. The statement puts it very strikingly that what we have not been able to do in a timely and sufficient manner over the last 35 years in general and over the last 20 years in particular needs to be done very clearly and sharply now. In this respect, it is necessary to correctly and sufficiently understand the Leader's call, its reasons, the characteristics of the new process and the tasks involved, and to successfully implement the requirements. It is of historic importance to approach the content of the Call with great responsibility and seriousness and to successfully implement it in every area.
<Let us all consider ourselves responsible for the success of this Call
Let us not forget that Leader Apo has always shouldered the biggest burden himself and has illuminated our path and led us. Now, he is taking a new step with the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ and is starting a new process of struggle for all the oppressed, especially women and young people. So, let us correctly understand the characteristics of this new process and successfully fulfill its duties on the basis of always being prepared against all kinds of dirty tricks and attacks. Let us develop our democratic organization and our struggle for freedom in every area with great courage and dedication in Kurdistan, the Middle East and all around the world. Let us all consider ourselves responsible for the success of this Call.
<We call on everyone to support the Leader's Call
We have entered the month of March. We are feeling a new excitement leading us to 8 March and Newroz. We are developing the Women's Freedom Revolution on the basis of Jineoloji, organizing moral and political social life in the Line of Democratic Civilization. We are trying to understand the Apoist reality more accurately and adequately, and to develop the revolution of truth, which is a revolution of mentality and lifestyle. Leader Apo's last Call is a call to embrace 8 March and Newroz more strongly and to celebrate with more enthusiasm. More than anyone else, women and young people need to understand this Call correctly, embrace it strongly and fulfill its requirements.
On this basis, we congratulate all women and young people, our people and our friends on 8 March Working Women's Day and Newroz, and we call on everyone to support the Leader's Call in the spirit of 8 March and Newroz and to develop the freedom struggle in every field!
Long live the Heroic Pioneer of Our People, the PKK!
Bijî Rêber APO!”
>>2169275What serbia,
You mean our pussylips president getting cucked byall?
>>2172492>sounds stupidYes it's fucking absurd. The PKK are still in an active war, DEM leaders are still forced out of office and thrown into jail, and etc, etc.
Nothing good with come of this, i promise.
>>2173723ELN and FARC have caused since January of this year until now more than 56 civilian deaths in Catatumbo, frontier of Venezuela and fundamental maker of coca. More than 85 thousand people displaced, the biggest humanitarian crisis in Colombia.
Catatumbo is rich in petrol, coal, uranio and coltán, has a monoculture of palma aceitera and an extractivist economy, which motivates territorial disputes between those paramilitary groups. The region was used by former Colombian governments to desestabilize Venezuela in hybrid wars by using narcotrafic and violence.
Both Colombia and Venezuela are working together for peace, and to end peacefully and diplomatic the conflict that is fueled by imperialist interests.
Venezuela keeps providing aid to more than 40.000 people displaced by the conflict. In the last 3 years: They seized 100 tons of drugs on the geodesic line, destroyed 47 drug trafficking logistics structures, 36 laboratories for drug processing, as well as 71 clandestine runways.
Peace in Colombia means peace for Venezuela, which means peace for the region.
The PKK is not the next FARC, i can guarantee you that. The people is in Rojava side against imperialism in the region and the terrorist paramilitaries of the HTS.
https://www.telesurtv.net/aumenta-crisis-humanitaria-en-colombia-con-casi-85-000-desplazados-en-el-catatumbo/https://www.telesurtv.net/crisis-de-seguridad-y-humanitaria-en-el-catatumbo-entra-al-segundo-mes/ >>2169303The PKK are going nowhere though.
They are a US proxy much like Turkey.
Turkey is involvement in the war against Syria is primarly for the purpose of advancing the greater Israel project.
In short, this is just meaningless Turkish feel good propaganda.
>>2169641Only one that likes them are the Zionists.
They really have no allies in the region and they are designed this way, so that they can be a good lapdog to the Zionists since no one else in the middle east can stomach them.
They are essentially a bunch of low autism score mercanries who sell their services for a very low price.
>>2173890> The people is in Rojava side against imperialism in the region and the terrorist paramilitaries of the HTS.Than why are they supported by the Zionists and the Americans.
The Zionists are the PINNACLE of US imperialism in West Asia.
>>2172371> We are developing the Women's Freedom Revolution on the basis of Jineoloji, organizing moral and political social life in the Line of Democratic CivilizationMy God, they are a cancer.
They are like a mockery of socialist movement.
Jineoloji?
Seriously!!!??!!
>>2180582>why are they supported by Zionists and the AmericansThe Zionists "support" Rojava in the same way they support Iraqi Kurdistan. See
>>2170165Keep in mind, the YPG and KRG are far from allies.
https://www.rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/16122020The Americans allied with Rojava as a means to fight ISIS.
<but they went in for the oilOil which they don't control and is incapable of being sold to them.
Secondly, by your logic we may as well consider the DAANES as proxies for Russia, considering they too have accepted their support in fighting ISIS and Turkish Proxies and have been vocal pro-Russian supporters
https://npasyria.com/en/66758/https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article37394991.htmlhttps://web.archive.org/web/20171013233406/https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/pictures-us-russian-military-units-patrol-kurdish-controlled-areas-northern-syria/We may as well consider Fidel Castro and Ho Chi Minh as proxies for US imperialism, considering they accepted help from them too.
China is also israel's second largest trading partner and provides arms to saudi arabia, all the while being Australia's largest trading partner but I don't see anyone condemning them for making trade deals with imperialist countries, lol.
>>2180227For context he actually said
<If Israel can "prevent attacks against us and stop the killing of our people, we welcome that and appreciate it," the Commander-in-chief of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), General Mazloum Abdi, stated during an interview with a BBC journalist, according to reports on Wednesday.
<"We welcome anyone in the world who can help support our rights and protect our achievements," Abdi clarified, also stating, "let me give a general answer. We welcome support from anyone."Because yeah, it's not like the HTS and Turkey are committing genocide against Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians, Christians- all of which make up a considerable chunk of the population of the DAANES.
>>2180609>The Americans allied with Rojava as a means to fight ISIS.That's the official narrative but the ISIS is basicly a CIA construct and the various Kurdish terrorists are essentially mercenaries.
Furthermore their leader already stated his his willingness to work with the Zionists.
Not sure what you are trying doing here.
Why are you hell bent on trying to paint a bunch of Zionist supported terrorists as some glorious communist, anti imperialist resistance movement is beyond me.
>>2180609China didn't come into existence due to American imperial meddling.
China doesn't owe it's very existence to American imperial meddling.
China does not have a military alliance with the Zionists, they just sell them stuff as they sell to everyone.
>>2180710Neither did Rojava, lol.
>Realpolitik for me but not for thee. >>2180704>That's the official narrative but the ISIS is basicly a CIA construct and the various Kurdish terrorists are essentially mercenaries.Which Kurdish terrorists? Which Kurdish Mercenaries the PKK? The SDF?
Because if that's your definition of a mercenary, then you're delusional.
>Furthermore their leader already stated his his willingness to work with the Zionists. He also stated his willingness to work with Russia.
>Why are you hell bent on trying to paint a bunch of Zionist supported terrorists as some glorious communist, anti imperialist resistance movement is beyond me.Because they are not Zionist supported terrorists, no matter how much Turk-Nat propaganda you swallow.
>>2180609>Because yeah, it's not like the HTS and Turkey are committing genocide against Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians, ChristiansThis is a straight up Zionist fantasy.
Infact the Zionists through their proxy (ISIS) have been responsible for carrying out attacks against all said groups.
So it makes the most sense to oppose the Zionists FIRST and foremost and they have been the biggest enemy of any secular regime in the region (baathist Iraq and Syria).
Piss off, with your nonsense, you Zionist rat.
Nothing you said even remotely disproves what I said.
>>2180609>Because yeah, it's not like the HTS and Turkey are committing genocide against Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians, Christians- all of which make up a considerable chunk of the population of the DAANES.Oh, yes the Zionists who along with the Americans backed ISIS for years against Assad.
The Zionists who were the primary factor in the destruction of Iraq and life being made hell for all Christians over there!
The Zionists who seek to genocide the native populations of the region so as to make way for the greater Israel project.
They are the TRUE friends of Christians, Azeris, etc…
Piss off, the Zionists are the biggest enemy of any anti imperial actor in Syria or the Middle East, without them pushing the Americans to launch a war against Assad, none of this would have even happened.
>>2180718>this is straight up a zionist fantasyhttps://medyanews.net/rojava-will-not-surrender-to-turkish-attacks/https://apnews.com/article/turkey-territorial-disputes-azerbaijan-ankara-armenia-9a95d9690569623adedffe8c16f3588dhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_KurdsYou may be interested in who Turkey backs btw.
https://www.stimson.org/2024/what-turkey-hopes-to-gain-from-the-hts-offensive-in-syria/https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-erdogan-backs-rebel-offensive-syriayou can call me a zionist rat all you want, it doesn't stop the fact that the HTS is backed by Turkey and the massacres can be attributed to Turkish genocide.
>>2180727>little more than a proxy groupThen you know of the Rojavan revolution, considering this was a mass uprising brought on by the neglect of Assad.
https://web.archive.org/web/20121129100410/http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4992.htmlhttps://justicenotchange.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/michael_knapp_ercan_ayboga_anja_flach_janet_bib-ok-org.pdf
>nothing beneficial comes from cooperating with the ZionistsI agree, but to call them "proxies" and not address the realpolitik is naieve. Rojava's resisting a genocide and fighting a NATO member. To engage a war on three fronts would be dumb.
>I don't care about the branding associated with these Zionist backed kurdish invasive terrorists currently occupying Northeast Syria. Schizo babble.
>The Zionists are the biggest problem currently facing all of Syria. >They seek to promote prepetual chaos via their various proxies. As does Turkey, who are backing the HTS. To act as if they aren't one of the main perpetrators in this conflict is laughable.
>But objective reality is objective reality.A reality which you seem to knowingly deny.
>>2180733>schizo babble and strawmanningI'm not saying that Israel is going to save anyone, they aren't. What I'm saying is that it makes sense that the DAANES is playing the game to prevent an escalation of further conflict, lol.
>>2180741Not really, it's an objective observation of geopolitical reality.
You have a heavily armed actor that primarly acts in the interests of the Zionists in the region.
Hell, even the Americans already admitted to have armed ISIS, they just make the infalisiable claim that it was by accident and the even more clearly false claim that they stopped.
>>2180741Lil bro forgot the crocus shootings 💀
They happened soon after Nuland said that "Putin will get a nasty surprise". Both America and ISIS-K immediately claimed ISIS-K did it in a fucking comical display until the shooters were detained and questioned.
>>2169271> https://medyanews.net/rojava-will-not-surrender-to-turkish-attacks/> https://apnews.com/article/turkey-territorial-disputes-azerbaijan-ankara-armenia-9a95d9690569623adedffe8c16f3588d> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_KurdsWOW, a literally who opinion article, along with another article citing Turkish political disputes with other groups?
WOW!
Kurdish genocide proven.
Let's ignore the millions of kurds living in Turkey.
> You may be interested in who Turkey backs btw.Same as what the US and Zionists back, HTS along with various terrorists orgs so as to help break up Syria into managable slave micro states, that the pitiable Zionists could deal with.
>×Then you know of the Rojavan revolution, considering this was a mass uprising brought on by the neglect of Assad. >https://web.archive.org/web/20121129100410/http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4992.html> https://justicenotchange.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/michael_knapp_ercan_ayboga_anja_flach_janet_bib-ok-org.pdfOpinion articles by literally who publication hardly prove anything.
Anyhow there was no revolution, America simply invited the Kurdish terrorists Mercenaries in with the purposes of using them as a Zionist official proxy in Syria.
> who are backing the HTS.Both the West and the Zionists back them, as well as benefit from them.
All you do is list reasons as to why the Zionists must be opposed.
>>2180774>calling documented articles and news covering the Rojava revolution as well as historic accounts “Opinion pieces”
Why is it that whenever people like you are confronted on your bullshit your first response is to either use buzzwords or downplay the evidence in a dismissive fashion, in spite of the evidence that clearly disproves the arguments you make?
>>2180785>documented articles and news covering the Rojava revolution as well as historic accounts Citing literally who meme online publications and expecting me to abide by their authority will not work.
I have exactly ZERO reason to trust any of these publications.
>>2180788>Also Kurds are being persecuted in TurkeyWhat happened to your genocide claims, my Zionist freind?
You downgraded it to "presuction".
Anyhow, the modern state of turkey does not persecute the kurds, it attacks Zionist backed terrorist and mercanries like the PKK and other but not kurds as a whole.
Infact the current Turkish FM, spy chief and finance minister are fucking kurdish.
Just stop already.
Your Zionist propaganda doesn't work anyone with even a surface level understanding of modern Turkey.
>>2180817>>doesn’t bother reading how the Kurdish language has been banned among other cultural practices Pretty sure you can speak kurdish in turkey.
It's not used in official documents, but that's about it.
>>persection isn’t genocideIt isn't.
Genocide has a very specific definition.
>>Middle East eye is a literal whoYou cited many e-publications.
Anyhow, in the specific post I was responding to, you did not cite the middle east eye.
In the one post where you cite, it claims that turkey supports HTS, which I fully agree with, they do, them along with the Americans and the Zionists.
Anyhow, you have failed to demonstrate how the millions of kurds who hold very high positions in the Turkish government are being prosecuted or genocided.
> THEIR LANGUAGE WAS BANNED AT SOME POINTWe are talking about the current time.
You can speak kurdish as much as you like in turkey, the current spy minister most certainly does.
>>2180819>The Turkish state also literally removed Kurdish mayors from their positions on the basis they were “in line with the PKK” lol. Nothing wrong with removing Zionist backed terrorist.
Literally every state does this.
Not sure how this counts as kurdish prosecution.
I wonder how ordered their removal was It the KURDISH spy chief, does he also hate kurds?
You have no argument, all you have is a pathetic attempt to conflate the PKK, Zionist backed terror group with actual kurds.
>>2180838>you have no argumentAs opposed to you who is straight up making excuses for the Turkish government and calling everyone you don’t like a Zionist, dismisses a 200 page document on the Rojava revolution WHICH COVERS THE PERSECUTION KURDS FACE AT THE HANDS OF THE TURKISH STATE and then call it an op ed.
Wow, you sure showed lil ol “Zionist rat” me
>>2169435What are you even implying? That the United States was behind the PKK?
Why the fuck would the United States be behind the PKK? Turkey is in NATO and is an Israel lickspittle. The US wouldn't fund a bunch of far-left revolutionaries over one president they didn't like.
There's a chance they may have been planning some kind of Maidan-style shitlib color revolution coup, but they're not going to pull out the stops for a loyal dog that was a little erratic.
>>2180928>As opposed to you who is straight up making excuses for the Turkish government Everything I stated about them was a fact, I dare you to contest them.
> and calling everyone you don’t like a Zionist, I have ONLY called YOU a Zionist, which you are.
> dismisses a 200 page document on the Rojava revolution WHICH COVERS THE PERSECUTION KURDS FACE AT THE HANDS OF THE TURKISH STATE and then call it an op ed. I am not going to read ANYTHING from some literally who, you have not demonstrated the authenticity of such documents, as such they will be ignored.
There was evidently no such thing as a rojava "revolution", as all that happened is a bunch of American backed kurdish mercanries moved into Syria.
>>2180948>Dog it’s not worth debating people who aren’t arguing in good faith, to them anything non arab nationalist in the region is automatically zionistThe classic….
> OMG YOU THINK EVERYTHING IS ZIONISTAre you denying the Zionist influence in the conflict?
Hell, they were the ones that convinced the Americans to start backing the terrorist to begin with.
You are delusonial.
>>2180956>That the United States was behind the PKK?In Syria and elsewhere, it is.
>Why the fuck would the United States be behind the PKK? Because America seeks to manufacture a proxy for the Zionists in Syria.
> The US wouldn't fund a bunch of far-left revolutionaries over one president they didn't like.There is nothing left wing or revolutionary about them, as they are quite LITERALLY on America's payroll.
>>2181260This!
Fuck em and their Zionist allies. : )
>>2181491What's sad is they aren't even ethno-nationalist either.
They are at most a collection of American paid mercanaries with some pseudo leftist branding.
Anyhow, no one really cares about them, they get shilled on here because glowies want to raise some support for their bottom bitch in Syria.
>>2181494the mercenaries in syria are various islamists, the kurds were already there. PKK is not synonymous with rojava/YPG, even if the limit is quite porous.
I have a lot of criticism for them (chiefly collaborating with the US in the operation to bring the downfall of syria), but lets not fall into retarded oversimplifications either, and they definitely seem to believe in their ideology, and they dont act like ethno nationalists (not that they can really afford to). Collaborating with the US does not mean being nothing more than their appendix. US collaborated with talibans against communists, and they then fought each other.
>>2181474>muh mods persecutiongrow up newfriend
>>2182094I just find entertaining anti-rojavists liberals slowly losing their minds.
In next years, they will either just repeat the same meaningless slogans (glowjava, ethnonationalism, etc), or they will go full conspiracy theorists.
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