https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ocalan-dissolve-pkk-historic-statementSome highlights:
>long history of violence from which the PKK emerged>emphasis on hundreds of years of alliance between Kurds and Turks>need for democratic solution, faith that now it is the time>respect to Bahceli and Erdogan’s calls to move on with a resolution>PKK (all armed groups) to leave weapons to engage in a democratic resolution processit's so over
>>2169312At the mention of PKK/HDP/DAANES/etc all the worst retards on the site come to shit it up and make sure no productive conversation will be had.
Blame the moderation.
"The PKK was born in the 20th century, in the most violent epoch of the history of humanity, amidst the two world wars, under the shadow of the experience of real socialism and the cold-war around the world. The outright denial of Kurdish reality, restrictions on basic rights and freedoms - especially freedom of expression - played a significant role in its emergence and development.
The PKK has been under the heavy realities of the century and the system of real socialism in terms of its adopted theory, program, strategy and tactics. In the 1990s, with the collapse of real socialism due to internal dynamics, the dissolution of the denial of Kurdish identity in the country, and improvements in freedom of expression, led to the weakening of the PKK´s foundational meaningfulness and resulted in excessive repetition.
Throughout the history of more than 1000 years, Turkish and Kurdish relations have been defined in terms of mutual cooperation and alliance, and Turks and Kurds have found it essential to remain in this voluntary alliance to maintain their existence and survive against hegemonic powers.
The last 200 years of capitalist modernity have been marked by primarily the aim of breaking this alliance. The forces involved, in line with their class-based interests, have played a key role in furthering this objective. With monist interpretations of the Republic, this process has accelerated. Today, the main task is to restructure the historical relationship, which has become extremely fragile, without excluding consideration for beliefs with the spirit of fraternity.
The need for a democratic society is inevitable. The PKK, the longest and most extensive insurgency and armed movement in the history of the Republic, found social base and support, and was primarily inspired by the fact that the channels of democratic politics were closed.
The inevitable outcome of the extreme nationalist deviations - such as a separate nation-state, federation, administrative autonomy, or culturalist solutions - fails to answer the historical sociology of the society.
Respect for identities, free self-expression, democratic self-organization of each segment of society based on their own socio-economic and political structures, are only possible through the existence of a democratic society and political space.
The second century of the Republic can achieve and assure permanent and fraternal continuity only if it is crowned with democracy. There is no alternative to democracy in the pursuit and realization of a political system. Democratic consensus is the fundamental way.
The language of the epoch of peace and democratic society needs to be developed in accordance with this reality.
The call made by Mr. Devlet Bahceli, along with the will expressed by Mr. President, and the positive responses from the other political parties towards the known call, has created an environment in which I am making a call for the laying down of arms, and I take on the historical responsibility of this call.
As in the case with any modern community and party whose existence has not been abolished by force would voluntarily do, convene your congress and make a decision; all groups must lay their arms and the PKK must dissolve itself.
I convey my greetings to all those who believe in co-existence and who look forward to my call.
February 25, 2025
Abdullah Öcalan"
>>2169356Bullshit word salad but contains enough ‘democracy’ and ‘hegemonic’ for the libs to swallow it
Ocalan TED talks coming soon in the American North East
>>2169368>Ahhhh the moment Assad’s gone and Al Qaeda rules Syria, Great Ocalan™️ doesn’t want to fight anymore>so much for the great libertarian socialist causeYou people are so fucking retarded it's painful. Ocalan has been on this shit for decades.>>2169375
>That’s most probably what happened! <Cutting of USAID this month paved the way for this loosening up by Turkey and allowance of meetings and an announcement from Ocalan which we have been waiting for since early January if not DecemberTo reiterate, you people are so fucking retarded, jfc.
Go to /pol/, it will be more your speed.
>>2169435>USAID cut>PKK immediately dissolvesYou are literally a schizophrenic drawing connections between things you're to unwell to even understand individuals.
Get on medication.
>>2169435>they were just a terrorist organization You and the state department are in agreement then.
>>2169368Clearly this was their plan all along when they formed the PKK in the fucking 80s. Plus it's not like the SDF are going to actually listen to him, they're already chalking it up to the fact that he's been in prison for 26 years.
>>2169641Kurds when they have to fight Turks:
>As in the case with any modern community and party whose existence has not been abolished by force would voluntarily do, convene your congress and make a decision; all groups must lay their arms and the PKK must dissolve itself.>I convey my greetings to all those who believe in co-existence and who look forward to my call.>February 25, 2025>Abdullah ÖcalanKurds when they have Armenians neighbors:
>Until the end of the nineteenth century, a patronage relationship existed between the Kurds and the Armenians characterized by a tax regime where the Kurdish tribes imposed a tax (the hafir) on their Christian neighbors in return for protection of their villages and pasture areas from the attacks of other tribes.>The ambivalence and gradual shift in Kurdish-Armenian relations in Kulp can be linked to certain episodes. Sassoun, for example, is the birthplace of the Armenian revolutionary movement in the 1880s, where the revolutionaries (fedai) left memories of admiration for their heroism, as well as condemnation for their betrayal. Two historic moments of Armenian resistance, in 1894 and 1904, were repressed with bloodshed by the Ottoman army, the Hamidiye Cavalry and local Kurdish tribes. Some of these tribes, such as the Xiyan, took this moment as an opportunity to confiscate Armenian land and property.>When I was a kid, the word Armenian always evoked an imaginary treasure in my mind. Many people believed that the Armenians buried their possessions before they left. At the time I started my fieldwork in Kulp and Silvan in 2013, the hunt for Armenian treasure was still going on. Many churches and monasteries had been excavated and ravaged in an attempt to discover hidden treasures, sometimes under the pretext of transforming them into mosques. While visiting villages for the interviews, I was warned several times not to mention that I was living in France, nor to ask any questions about the properties left by the Armenians. The villagers, I was told, would suspect that I was there to search for Armenian possessions on behalf of surviving descendants. >>2169849>>2169271Did a bit of reading, and I think there's a lot more context to it than "lmao, dissolve yourself".
Important context:
https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/070220251https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/25022025Article 1:
<"“They say let Ocalan call for disarmament. Let’s assume that he made the call. But this work cannot be done only through a call. We are a movement with tens of thousands of armed people. These fighters are not on a payroll to be sacked. These are ideological fighters. They have beliefs and are willing to sacrifice themselves. If the person who established the ideology, leader Apo, himself does not get involved physically or speak with the comrades, a call via video is not enough, he has to speak while free. If not, how can they [PKK fighters] be convinced to lay down arms?” Murat Karayilan said in an interview with the PKK-affiliated Sterk TV that was aired on Thursday.
<“Kurdish society has been tricked many times. They do not trust the Turkish state in terms of its policy. First of all, trust must be established. Steps have to be taken in this regard. There will be no [peace] process unless they change their language, actions and attempts,” he said.He was apparently referring to the short-lived peace process between the PKK and Ankara in 2013. Both sides blamed the other when it failed in 2015. While expectations for peace are high, regular clashes continue. Turkey has intensified its attacks on alleged positions of the PKK in the Kurdistan Region and Karayilan said that a peace process cannot begin until the fighting ceases.
<“There must be a ceasefire. How can we discuss the disarmament issue without a ceasefire?… There must be a bilateral ceasefire.… We are not lovers of weapons, but freedom and democracy and a just life. If this happens there will be no need for weapons,” he said."Article 2:
<"The upcoming message notably comes amid significant regional power dynamics. In her Monday remarks, Hozat also rebuked “allegations” from Turkish state-affiliated media suggesting that the PKK might be laying down arms. “All the news and narratives from [Turkish] state media about the end, exhaustion, and disarmament of the PKK stem from psychological warfare,” she said.
<She elaborated that Ocalan’s anticipated message would call for “a democratic resolution of the Kurdish issue and the democratization of Turkey,” adding that “if the Kurdish issue was resolved, we will definitely discuss disarmament.”
<The KCK co-chair’s remarks notably coincide with the renewed efforts of the pro-Kurdish Peoples' Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party), which has been mediating talks between Ankara and the PKK in a bid to end hostilities. Details of the process remain unclear, but officials from the pro-Kurdish party have stated that it aims to bring peace to the country."None of this is outside of the ideas put forth in the Roadmap for Negotiations, or in Beyond State, Power and Violence. I'm surprised by a board that claims to have "read the theory" but this speaks to the lack of engagement with the the theory itself (either 1. revolutionary peoples war and unilateral declaration of democratic autonomy or 2. detente with the state and building of democratic autonomy, the formulation of "state + democracy")
If the Turkish state won't meet the PKK and KCK's preconditions, then there's a likely hood there won't be disarmament and dissolution.
>>2169709>le kurds are anti-armenianMeanwhile:
https://anfenglishmobile.com/kurdistan/-77070
>The Committee for Peoples and Beliefs of the KCK issued a statement to send greetings to "the Christian peoples of the world are currently celebrating Christmas, and humanity in general is preparing for the transition into a new year."
<The statement said: "As the Kurdistan Freedom Movement, which strongly supports and struggles for the unity, equality, and brotherhood of all peoples and beliefs, we wish all Christians in Kurdistan as well as all Christian peoples of the world a merry Christmas. We strongly hope that in 2025 the wars in the Middle East and all over the world will come to an end and all humanity will have an equal, democratic, and free life in peace, tranquility, and brotherhood. We express our condolences to the relatives of those who lost their lives in the attack at the Christmas market in Magdeburg, Germany, on the eve of Christmas Day, and wish a speedy recovery to the injured."…
>The statement underlined that "the genocidal, fascist Turkish regime, which threatens all beliefs, cultures, and different peoples, particularly including the Assyrian and Armenian peoples living in the region, casts a shadow on the joy of the celebrations of our peoples and continues to threaten the peoples with its attacks. The genocidal, fascist Turkish regime knows no bounds in its attacks, displaying its hostility not only to the Christian faith in the region but also to Alevi, Êzidi (Yazidis), and Democratic Muslim circles. In the face of such genocidal and fascist aggression, it is most appropriate for the people of all peoples and faiths to form and strengthen a unity based on the understanding of the ‘Democratic Nation’ and do their part in building the new Syria. As the Kurdistan Freedom Movement, we wish that this year’s Christmas will be instrumental in the realization of the construction of a democratic, free Syria where the freedoms and authenticities of all peoples and beliefs are recognized and where equality, unity, and solidarity prevail. We believe that the peoples of all faiths living in Syria and Rojava can lead such a successful struggle."
>The KCK said: "On this occasion, we call on the peoples to be more organized, in solidarity and unity against the colonialist, genocidal, fascist powers and states not only in Kurdistan but all over the Middle East and the world. With these feelings and thoughts, we once again say Merry Christmas to the entire Christian world, especially our Armenian, Assyrian, and Chaldean peoples of Kurdistan, and we hope that 2025 will be a year in which all evils that oppose human conscience and morality will come to an end. We hope that everyone will contribute to implementing the will of the peoples to weave the model of coexistence in love, peace, brotherhood, and equality in the construction of Democratic Syria, and that 2025 will be the year of the victory of the struggle for the Democratic Nation in Rojava and all of Syria."…
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>>2169859https://anfenglishmobile.com/women/-75892
>Armenian Women's Union Coordination Member Anahit Kasabiyan stated that they will continue to struggle for the construction of a decentralised life in Syria where equality, justice and democracy will be ensured and all nations can live together.
>The Armenian Women's Union, which strengthened its organisations with the paradigm of Kurdish People's Leader Abdullah Öcalan, continues its work uninterruptedly. ANF talked to Anahit Kasabiyan, Member of the Armenian Women's Union Coordination, about the organisation of the Armenian Women's Union, the participation of Armenian women in all areas of life before and after the revolution and their 2nd congress.
>When was the Armenian Women's Union founded and what was its purpose?
<Armenian women had forgotten their identity within different nations. They knew they were Armenians, but there was nothing more than that. For this reason, we tried to raise awareness by coming together with Armenian women in Raqqa, Deir ez-Zor and Hesekê for three months before the first congress. During this period, 80 seminars were held on the history, culture and identity of the Armenian community. Through these seminars, discussions on the content of the congress were held with the women who came together, and the regulations were discussed.
<In fact, after these discussions, the draft of the system to be established for Armenian women emerged and the congress was held based on this preparation. With the slogan ‘The Armenian Women's Union resurrects itself after 107 years’, the Armenian Women's Union was declared at the 1st Armenian Women's Congress held on 30 August 2022. For the first time in 107 years, that is, after the Armenian genocide, an Armenian women's congress was taking place. We needed the Armenian Women's Union more than bread and water. A woman who does not live her identity, culture and does not know her history could face a new genocide at any moment. Therefore, I can say that we have guaranteed our existence with this union. In addition, Armenian women, who needed to be liberated from the male-dominated mentality, needed to organise with their own identity. In addition, it was a great danger for them to live with the cultures and histories of the society they lived in and the nations they lived with, but not to live their own history, culture and identity. Of course, most importantly, staying away from the developments in the Rojava Revolution, which is a Women's Revolution, living disconnected, not taking part in women's organisation would affect the development and transformation of Armenian women.
>What was the life of Armenian women before 2012? What kind of participation was there in all areas of life?
<Armenian women were involved in different fields before 2012. There was no situation that represented the Armenian people and kept their history, culture and identity alive. They had a position that was included in the system of the Ba'ath regime, was a part of this system and served this system. They were not in the struggle for change and transformation through the eyes of women or from the perspective of free women. They were subject to what existed. The bitter effect of the state system was effective on women, and it would not be wrong to say that Armenian women had no will. Such a picture was also reflected in social relations. In this context, Armenian women and community were indistinct in society and had lost their identity.
>What kind of change took place with the revolution?
<Historically, the Armenian community has gone through difficult times, lived in various geographies, and had the chance to protect, preserve and pass on its identity, culture and rights to new Armenian generations in the process. Before the establishment of the Armenian Community Council, we were involved in military, political and social activities, and we became stronger through organisation. These military, political and social activities greatly influenced the organisation of the Armenian community. The endeavour to form a strong community enabled them to preserve their own identity. The establishment of the Council with the revolution allowed this organisation to become stronger and more systematic. The Armenian community is now able to organise social events to keep their language, religion and traditions alive, thus ensuring social solidarity. There are approximately 130 political parties representing the so-called Armenian community worldwide. However, when we look at the regulations, researches and struggles of these parties, we do not see an approach that protects and observes the rights of the Armenian community. For this reason, as the Armenian community living in Northern and Eastern Syria, we will establish a political party led by women.
>You said that you came together with many Armenian women and organised discussions and seminars. What were the views of Armenian women on the Rojava Revolution during these activities?
<The Rojava Revolution was evaluated as a model that allows women to take an active part in political and military fields. The fact that the women's movement in Rojava co-operated with other ethnic and religious groups and encouraged solidarity was seen as an important step by Armenian women, and they were impressed by this approach. Such interaction offered an opportunity for peace and harmony between different communities. The fact that women in Rojava took an active role in the military arena and participated in the war was inspiring for many Armenian women. This reinforced the presence of women in the struggle for peace and freedom and set an example for the younger generations. The wind of change created by the Rojava Revolution in the social structure strengthened Armenian women's belief that similar transformations should take place in their own community as well. There has been an awareness that the role of women in social life needs to be redefined. Armenian women think that the women's movement in Rojava also sets an example in terms of protecting and expressing their own cultural identity. The endeavour to keep the cultural richness of different ethnic groups together allows their own culture to take part in this process.
>What kind of road map do you have as Armenian women for Syria-Syria dialogue?
<As the Armenian community and women, we are involved in the activities for Syria-Syria dialogue. We have closely witnessed the sacrifices and bloodshed in Northern and Eastern Syria and the Armenian people have played a major role in this revolution. For this reason, we are directly involved in the activities and solutions offered to resolve the crisis. We will continue our struggle for the construction of a decentralised life in Syria where equality, justice and democracy will be ensured and all nations can live together. Due to the current crisis, beyond the institutions and organisations representing the Syrian people, many states have settled in the region in line with their own interests. This is being done in line with plans to disrupt the integrity of Syria and to disintegrate its unity.
>How do Armenian women living in Northern and Eastern Syria evaluate the paradigm of Kurdish People's Leader Abdullah Öcalan?
<All Armenian women living in the region are organising and strengthening themselves in line with Leader Apo's (Abdullah Öcalan’s) philosophy. Leader Apo's ideas and thoughts, his predictions, the paradigm he developed was not only for the Kurdish people. It is a paradigm that appeals to all peoples. Armenian women argue that Leader Apo's ideas will bring a solution for the peoples of the Middle East and the world. They realise that the key to the solution lies with Leader Apo. Therefore, ensuring the physical freedom of Leader Apo is our priority and, especially, his physical freedom is vital for women. The solution to the persecution and genocide against the Armenian people also lies with Leader Apo.
>The 2nd Congress of the Armenian Women's Union was held on 7 January. What kind of transformation was achieved with the congress?
<First of all, a coordination was needed for the Armenian Women's Union to carry out healthier and stronger work. Therefore, the Coordination of the Armenian Women's Union was established. It was decided that the representative offices of the Armenian Assembly and the Armenian Women's Union would be located in the Autonomous Administration offices. Small economic projects will be established for Armenian women to develop themselves and take their place in society. In the Armenian Language Course to be established, ideological education for women will be highlighted. The participation of Armenian women in the Armenian Military Council will be strengthened and their participation in the Armenian political party to be established will be ensured. We will consider this year as a year of education in order to achieve better development and transformation in the intellectual dimension. In addition, an Armenian Women's Union will be organised in Raqqa.>>2169876
>ethnonationalistLol, ok.
>>2169867An ethnonationalist movement comprising of armenians, yazidis and arabs…
You know if you actually read the theory and "organised with kurds" like you said you did, you'd know this would be a bunch of bogus.
>>2169887>muh kurdish propaganda>muh bleached kurds>muh degeneracy Note that you don't actually have any arguments and resort to name-calling and buzzwords.
>tell them about the primacy of patriarchy before class society and that woman was the first opressed 'class.Ok and?
If you bothered reading the pamphlet on jineology I handed to you in the Luigi thread you'd know there's merit to this argument.
But again, you don't actually read or engage with any of this theory.
post chin btw >>2169885Pretty much. Even the PKK leaders made a statement in regards to Apo.
https://x.com/xoseric/status/1895187899387387944“There is no such thing as a declaration that will fix everything and bring peace. That will never happen. Everything must be seized through struggle, and even then, only by clawing it out with teeth and nails. It won't be solved by merely signing a statement.”
>>2169907The "Kurdish Project" which has factions of Kurds fighting amongst eachother (PKK and YPG fighting the Iraqi Kurds and KRG), is fighting a NATO member and still has control over its own resources as opposed to selling them or having them put under control of USA companies?
https://rojavainformationcenter.org/2020/08/did-mike-pompeo-mislead-congress-about-syrias-oil/You don't have facts, you have schizophrenic delusions. And a lack of a jawline by the looks of it. Your argument (if it can even be called that) is a bunch of incoherent drivel.
>>2169914>The "Kurdish Project" which has factions of Kurds fighting amongst eachotherMaybe this is interesting but I wound up in the middle of a Kurdish demonstration outside a Trump rally right when Turkey was going into Afrin, because Trump barnstormed into town and I wandered down to check out the MAGA hats, and just randomly saw this angry cloud of Kurd diaspora protesting and shouting. I was like what hell that's cool as fuck. I also know how to chant "biji biji rojava."
But it was mostly Iraqi Kurds and there was at least one KRG flag. So my sense is that Kurds will back up other Kurds, but when some of the young women got a "biji biji YPG" chant going, I felt some tension in the crowd. I don't think everyone was cool with that. That's a specific political and paramilitary organization.
The Trump supporters were really confused BTW. They had no idea what was going on. "Is this antifa..?"
>>2169923Wow, it's almost as if Kurds aren't a monolith and have differing opinions just like any other human being.
Shocker.
>>2169275Because they got what they wanted already.
Assad is out and a puppet is installed in Damascus, the puppet in Damascus won't oppose Israel and will prevent Iran from supplying Hezbollah.
The Kurds are no longer needed, they can just die.
>>2170146It's for propaganda purposes but these groups are ultimately just American proxies, they will exist so as long as the US is willing to send shekels.
I think the US is still interested in fostering chaos in Syria, since the Zionists are just so utterly incapable of fighting even the weakest groups (as seen by their horrible performance against a severely weakened hezbollah), so keeping Syria in chaos is benefitial.
>>2169339What are you talking about?
They are little more than a US proxy.
Nothing communist about a group whose very existence is reliant in US support.
>>2169914These SDF terrorists have little to no legitimacy outside Zionists circles as they have proven time and time again to be little more than a US proxy.
Assad was the only true anti colonialist socialist actor in Syria.
All the rest are just clowns with a role to play.
>>2170143Not at all. The YPG and the PKK although similar, are pretty much separate orgs. Rojava does, without a doubt, take a lot of influence from the PKKs policies, and are in league with them, but they're hardly an extension of the PKK themselves.
>>2170150>>2170148>>2170149
>SDF terrorists >muh zionists >american proxies Never mind the fact that the PKK is still fighting israel and Rojava has taken in thousands of Lebanese refugees who had their homes destroyed by Israelis.
https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/14102024The absolute delusion ITT.
>>2170154It's likely the PKK will keep on fighting. Not the first time "peace talks" between Turkey and the PKK have happened.
Besides it's not as if the PKK didn't predict that Apo would make such a call: they did.
https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/070220251
>ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - A top commander of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) said that the group will not heed to a call for disarmament from its jailed leader Abdullah Ocalan unless he physically meets with them and Kurds are guaranteed their rights in Turkey.
<“They say let Ocalan call for disarmament. Let’s assume that he made the call. But this work cannot be done only through a call. We are a movement with tens of thousands of armed people. These fighters are not on a payroll to be sacked. These are ideological fighters. They have beliefs and are willing to sacrifice themselves. If the person who established the ideology, leader Apo, himself does not get involved physically or speak with the comrades, a call via video is not enough, he has to speak while free. If not, how can they [PKK fighters] be convinced to lay down arms?” Murat Karayilan said in an interview with the PKK-affiliated Sterk TV that was aired on Thursday.…
>Amid renewed efforts to end four decades of conflict, Turkish officials and politicians have intensified their demands on the PKK to lay down arms. Media reports indicate that Ocalan is expected to make that call.
>Karayilan, however, urged caution.
<“Kurdish society has been tricked many times. They do not trust the Turkish state in terms of its policy. First of all, trust must be established. Steps have to be taken in this regard. There will be no [peace] process unless they change their language, actions and attempts,” he said.
>He was apparently referring to the short-lived peace process between the PKK and Ankara in 2013. Both sides blamed the other when it failed in 2015.
>While expectations for peace are high, regular clashes continue. Turkey has intensified its attacks on alleged positions of the PKK in the Kurdistan Region and Karayilan said that a peace process cannot begin until the fighting ceases.
<“There must be a ceasefire. How can we discuss the disarmament issue without a ceasefire?… There must be a bilateral ceasefire.… We are not lovers of weapons, but freedom and democracy and a just life. If this happens there will be no need for weapons,” he said.
<A major decision like disarmament requires the approval of the party leadership, not just Ocalan, the commander said.
<“The PKK congress has to meet and make such a decision. Who can do this all? Leader Apo. He can call for a congress meeting and speak with them physically several times. This is not a normal issue,” he said.
>Ocalan has been kept in Imrali island prison since his arrest in 1999. Karayilan said he should be released.
<“Our comrades will not be convinced to lay down arms unless Leader Apo is released. Some say that the lifting of isolation is a solution. But this is not enough. Leader Apo has to be released. This stage has arrived. He has to be released so that this process can proceed,” he said.
>After being denied visits for years, Ocalan has recently been allowed to meet with family and lawmakers from the main pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party) who are mediating talks between the PKK and the state. >>2170155They don't trust the turks but trust the Zionists and the Americans who bombed the shit out of Iraq and made into a disfunctional shithole by funding various terrorist groups?
I mean, fuck Turkey but it's shit like this why the these various Kurdish terrorist groups will never be taken seriously.
>>2170157>they trust the zionists Conflating the KRG and the PKK again?
Or Iraqi Kurdistan with Rojava again?
Never mind Israel considers the PKK terrorists and said PKK has aided in Palestenian resistance against israel:
https://merip.org/2020/08/the-kurdish-movements-relationship-with-the-palestinian-struggle/
>Israel is the only country that recognized and supported the Kurdish referendum in Iraq in September 2017—photographs even show Israeli flags being flown in Erbil and Sulaymaniyah. Israel’s camaraderie toward Kurdistan, however, seems to extend specifically to Iraqi Kurdistan whose leadership is far from revolutionary.In stark contrast to Israeli support for the northern Iraqi leadership, Netanyahu firmly opposes the PKK that is on the frontlines of resistance to the bombing of Kurdish villages in Turkey. In fact, the alliance with Iraqi Kurdistan in particular serves Israel’s geopolitical interests in the region. Currently, up to 77 percent of Israel’s oil supplies come from the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).
Need i remind you that the PKK is currently in conflict with the KRG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Region%E2%80%93PKK_conflict >>2170148>It's for propaganda purposes but these groups are ultimately just American proxiesEnough with this shit. Why would the US want to cripple one of the most important NATO members with Kurdish secession? Why would Russia be friendly with the SDF if they're nothing but a US proxy? Why would the SDF and KRG hate each other despite the fact that they're both supposedly US proxies? This shit is obviously absurd to anybody who knows anything about these groups and their relationship to one another and surrounding governments. It's literally a child's idea of how geopolitics works, as if these groups can't have their own agendas even when they work with larger powers.
>as seen by their horrible performance against a severely weakened hezbollahAh yes the "horrible performance" where they achieved all their war aims and Hezbollah achieved none of theirs. Not to mention that Israel is apparently so weak and hapless that they're just taking Syrian territory with impunity and the new government barely even protests.
>>2170169>Enough with this shit. Why would the US want to cripple one of the most important NATO members with Kurdish secession? Are you denying the US support for various Kurdish group with the aim of sinking the region into chaos?
Anyhow, the US uses the kurds as leverage against Turkey.
It's the same reason the US supported ISIS against Assad, in spite of the US despising Islamists.
> Ah yes the "horrible performance" where they achieved all their war aims and Hezbollah achieved none of theirs.Israel stated goal was the destruction of Hezb, you can look up bibi statement on that, their hidden goal was the annexation of Lebanon.
The failure of the Zionists to utterly destroy hezb after they managed to take out their leadership, exhaust them in the long Syrian civil war and than proceed to take over Lebanon, is a testament to their utter ineptitude.
The fact that bibi isn't celebrating in Beirut right now is a complete failure.
That being said I wouldn't say that hezbollah won either, they just didn't lose as they continue to exist.
>>2170174>You mean like how Assad's entire government instantly collapsed the moment their main foreign backer was distracted? Clearly the SDF has more organic legitimacy than the Ba'athists did.Assad goverment lasted for 5 years against the US/Israel and NATO along with their various proxies, Russia's supported was limited to carrying out air strikes.
Assad managed to last for 12 years, the collapse of the goverment was due to an internal coup not inablilty to fight.
Furthremore, the Syrian bathist regime is quite old and existed long before Russia even entered the ME.
>>2170171>>Not to mention that Israel is apparently so weak and hapless that they're just taking Syrian territory with impunity and the new government barely even protests.Well, of course, the American backed Islamist groups have been collaborating with the Zionists since the start of the war against Syria, this is well know.
Not sure, why you think that makes Israel strong somehow.
A state so pathetic that it has to rely on the US/NATO and their proxies to defeat the weakened bathist.
>>2170174>You mean like how Assad's entire government instantly collapsed the moment their main foreign backer was distracted?Assad should have fallen 12 years ago than or during the Soviet collapse.
Nothing you say makes sense.
You are either a Zionist shill or a moron.
Not sure which.
>>2170192>The US was doing the opposite of what you claims, despite their distaste for him they saved Assad's govt by bombing ISIS Never happened.
Most US Bombing was limited to targeting the SAA, the US has bankrolled ISIS since the start, you can see them rolling in with their American made toyatas and javelins.
Futhremore, the US simply rebranded ISIS as HTS and proceeded to back those.
Even their claim is destroying the ISIS leader is basicly by ZERO evidence, they presented footage of a bomb exploding.
That's it, the asset acting as ISIS leader probably just went home to tel Aviv.
>and their goal was to limit potential chaos as it would have been a bad thing for business, otherwise he would have fallen long beforeKek!
The Americans literally armed, financed and provided air cover to every group fighting based Assad.
They all failed ultimately so plan B was to get an internal coup against Assad going which ultimately succeeded.
You are so utterly divorced from geopolitical reality, that I have come to simply ignore your opinions.
>>2170182>Are you denying the US support for various Kurdish group with the aim of sinking the region into chaos?"Various Kurdish groups" lmao. You're deliberately drying to muddy the waters by lumping numerous distinct entities (some of which despise each other) into a single monolith. I'm denying that they support the PKK. On the contrary they've considered the PKK a terrorist organization for since its inception and its fighting against their largest regional ally. I'm also denying that their support for the SDF deprives the latter of the ability to have an independent agenda.
>Israel stated goal was the destruction of HezbNot in this conflict. It was forcing Hezbollah to withdraw from the war so that they could return civilians to the settlements on the northern border. At the very least Hezbollah clearly failed to achieve their goal, which was forcing Israel to withdraw from Gaza, which they also didn't achieve. At worst then you'd have to call the fighting inconclusive.
>Assad goverment lasted for 5 years against the US/Israel and NATO along with their various proxies, Russia's supported was limited to carrying out air strikes. No, Russia provided them with weapons (including heavy weapons like tanks, aircraft, artillery, etc), special forces/Wagner fighters, diplomatic support, economic aid and air strikes. Iran for its part basically ran the war for them by sending IRGC advisers to command pro-government troops, and Hezbollah fighters did a lot of the actual fighting for them. The Ba'athists relied MUCH more heavily on foreign support than the Kurds have, and it shows in how quickly they collapsed once it was partially withdrawn.
>Furthremore, the Syrian bathist regime is quite old and existed long before Russia even entered the ME.Yeah sure they may have had a lot more popular legitimacy decades ago, but since the outbreak of the civil war their legitimacy pretty clearly crashed hard and by the end nobody actually cared about them enough to defend it.
>>2170416>No, Russia provided them with weapons (including heavy weapons like tanks, aircraft, artillery, etc), special forces/Wagner fighters, diplomatic support, economic aid and air strikes. Iran for its part basically ran the war for them by sending IRGC advisers to command pro-government troops, and Hezbollah fighters did a lot of the actual fighting for them. The Ba'athists relied MUCH more heavily on foreign support than the Kurds have, and it shows in how quickly they collapsed once it was partially withdrawn.Incidentally, Russia was also the only external party that held the position that the Syrian state should accept DAANES, the USA never held this position for example.
Unfortunately the Kurd-derangement obsessives and 'ziggers' on this site live in a fantasy of their own making, pathetically for no other reason than to take a contrarian position and have arguments on the internet.
lets see if this works or it's a charlimit placed on the onion
==DEM Party to meet for three days to evaluate Öcalan’s historic call=
After a meeting with Abdullah Öcalan, the İmralı Delegation of the Peoples’ Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party) held a press conference in Istanbul yesterday and announced Öcalan’s ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’. The Kurdish leader called for the PKK to lay down arms, to convene its congress and make a decision.
According to the DEM Party Press Office, the Party Assembly (PM) and provincial co-chairs will convene on Sunday under the presidency of Co-Chairs Tulay Hatimoğulları and Tuncer Bakırhan. The meeting will reportedly take place at the party's headquarters in Balgat, Ankara.
On Monday, the Central Executive Committee (MYK) will convene at the building in Büklüm. On Wednesday, a meeting will be held in Balgat under the presidency of the co-chairs.
Mazlum Abdi: No excuse for Turkey to attack if peace succeeds
Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) General Commander Mazlum Abdi participated in a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, DC via Zoom, where he discussed the situation in Syria and North and East Syria, as well as Abdullah Öcalan’s historic call.
Abdi stated: "Mr. Öcalan's call was directed at the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) and its guerrillas. It was not specifically intended for our region. He conveyed the same message to Southern (Başûr) Kurdistan and other regions, including ours."
Abdi highlighted that Öcalan's message represents a positive development and a call for peace, adding that if implemented, it would further strengthen democracy in Turkey.
Abdi continued: "The relationship between the PKK and Turkey, along with the establishment of peace, will also impact our region. If this process succeeds, it will have a positive effect on us, and Turkey will have no justification to attack our region."
Salih Muslim: Leader Öcalan made a historic call. The ball is now in the Turkish state's court
Speaking to ANF following Abdullah Öcalan's historic call on 27 February, Salih Muslim, a member of the Presidential Council of the Democratic Union Party (PYD), said that ensuring Öcalan’s physical freedom is essential for this historic step to progress. He added: "Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] has made a historic call, and now the ball is in the Turkish state's court."
Leader Apo must be in direct contact with the PKK
Salih Muslim underlined that Leader Apo has opened the door to a political solution to the Kurdish question: "From now on, - he said - the responsibility falls on the Turkish state. Leader Apo has called for the PKK to hold a congress and dissolve itself. For this to happen, Leader Apo must be in direct contact with the PKK and determine the course to be followed. The realization of this congress depends on Turkey demonstrating its intent."
The Kurdish question can be resolved through politics
Muslim said that Leader Apo clearly explained why they initiated an armed struggle, and added: "The armed struggle started to ensure the people's security in the context of self-defense. If the state takes democratic steps in political, cultural, linguistic, and security aspects, the Kurdish question can reach a stage where it can be resolved through politics. If the process advances in this manner, there will be no need for armed struggle. The Kurdish question is now being discussed internationally and has become a global issue. Therefore, the Kurdish people have reached a level where they can conduct political and diplomatic struggles."
A change in Turkey will reflect on Kurdistan
Muslin said that the Turkish state is the one waging hostility against the Kurdish people in all four parts of Kurdistan. He continued: "If a solution cannot be reached in Syria today, and Iraq and Iran are in chaos and crisis, the Turkish state is responsible. Because Turkey does not want the Kurdish people to attain their rights. In this context, if there is a change in Turkey, it will directly reflect on other parts of Kurdistan. Therefore, when the leadership makes a decision, it considers everyone's opinion, including the KDP, the PUK, and other parties. Indeed, the Kurdish question can be resolved through political and social organization and struggle."
The progress of this process will bring a solution to Syria
Muslim said: "For this reason, the door to a political solution has been opened. This is a very important step. And it is also gratifying. The presence of the Turkish state in Syria has been an obstacle to the Kurdish people attaining their rights. The advancement of such a process means that a solution will also be reached in Syria, and Turkey refraining from intervening in Syria will lead to positive developments."
Öcalan’s physical freedom must be ensured
The Turkish state must take concrete steps for the PKK congress to be held, said Salih Muslim, adding: "The PKK has previously stated that the congress cannot take place unless Leader Apo’s physical freedom is ensured. Therefore, Leader Apo’s conditions must immediately change, he must be released from Imrali, and his physical freedom must be secured so that the historic step he has taken can continue. Leader Apo has made a historic call, and now the ball is in the Turkish state’s court. Thus, this process will progress step by step. Leader Apo has opened the door to democratic politics; the rest depends on the steps the Turkish state will take. These steps should begin with measures such as the release of political prisoners and the end of government-appointed trustees. Steps must be taken together. Moreover, it should be understood that this is a long-term process that cannot be concluded in a single day."
The Turkish state must call a ceasefire
Salih Muslim emphasized that it is unacceptable for the Turkish state to call for disarmament while continuing its attacks. He said: "The Turkish state is attacking on one hand while saying, ‘Put down your weapons’ on the other. If the attacks continue, how can the PKK lay down its arms? The Turkish state’s stance is a call for surrender. The guerrillas and the Kurdish people will not accept this surrender. If the Turkish state wants disarmament, it must listen to Leader Apo’s historic statement. Since 1984, the Turkish state has been waging relentless attacks against the guerrillas. The guerrillas are engaged in self-defense; they are not in an offensive position. Therefore, the Turkish state must declare a ceasefire. Following Leader Apo’s call, the Turkish state must take steps. The first phase of this step is the declaration of a ceasefire. If a practical ceasefire is implemented, it will lead the PKK to take further steps as well."
Everyone must fulfill their duties and responsibilities
Salih Muslim issued a call: "The solution to the Kurdish question has reached a new stage. In such a new process, everyone has duties and responsibilities. Above all, the Kurdish people and other communities must approach the issue with a sense of duty and responsibility. We are going through a sensitive process, and our burden is heavy. We see the steps taken as significant and express our hope for the future."
Instead of having some dumb bitch argument, let us assess:
What is the actual, real position of Rojava in the current political climate of the middle. What are the HARD, UNDISPUTED facts about their situation.
What is their relationship to the new ISIS regime? What is the current position between them and Turkey? How do other actors such as Iran or Israel relate to the situation, and how do the various outcomes stand to benefit them? What of the superpowers, Russia and The US?
After this, we should then ask, is he correct, at this time to want the org to disarm?
Personally I think its lunacy, at this time of hot and increasing global heat. But maybe he knows better, given he is who he is.
>>2171393Abdi's already saying it doesn't apply to the SDF, and only the PKK.
Also this was left out:
After the reading of the call, Sırrı Süreyya Önder, member of the DEM Party's İmralı delegation and DEM Party Parliamentary Deputy Chair, conveyed Öcalan’s additional note, which said, "Undoubtedly, the laying down of arms and the dissolution of the PKK in practice require the recognition of democratic politics and a legal framework."
Why this paragraph was not included in the text presented by Abdullah Öcalan in his own handwriting has been one of the matters of curiosity since yesterday.
According to the information obtained by the Mesopotamia Agency (MA), the paragraph in question was included in the text after talks with state officials.
Sharing this paragraph with the İmralı Delegation, Öcalan said that the text was drafted on February 25, but after his intensive contacts with state officials, they agreed that this paragraph should also be included in the statement.
PKK: We will comply with Leader Öcalan's call, we declare a ceasefire
The Executive Committee of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) released a statement in response to the historic call made by Kurdish leader Abdullah Öcalan on 27 February. Öcalan highlighted the importance of paving the way for democratic politics and Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood and called on the PKK to lay down arms.
The PKK Executive Committee's written statement titled 'To Our Patriotic People and Democratic Public Opinion' reads as follows:
“Leader Abdullah Öcalan's February 27 statement titled “Call for Peace and Democratic Society” is a Manifesto of the Age that illuminates the path of all forces of freedom and democracy. We respectfully salute Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] for presenting such a manifesto for democratic society to our people and humanity.
<A new historic process is beginning in Kurdistan and the Middle East
It is clear that a new historic process is beginning in Kurdistan and the Middle East with the Call in question. This will also have a great impact on the development of free life and democratic governance worldwide. The responsibility on this basis belongs to all of us; everyone must embrace their duties and responsibilities and fulfill the requirements.
<We agree with the content of the call as it is
Undoubtedly, being able to make such a call was of historic importance; now, the successful implementation of its content is of similar importance. We in the PKK agree with the content of the call as it is and state that we will fully comply with and implement the requirements of the Call on our part. However, we would like to underline that democratic politics and legal grounds must also be secured for its success.
<We are carrying historic achievements into a new phase of resistance
It is very clear that the PKK has been the great heroic and true movement of the last half century in Kurdistan. Everything was won through a very brave and self-sacrificing struggle, with a price and labor. We remember all the heroic martyrs of this great freedom struggle with deep respect, love and gratitude. Now, in the same spirit and conviction, we are carrying these historic achievements into a new phase of resistance. The awareness developed by Leader Apo and the great legacy of experience created by the PKK give our people the strength to continue the struggle for the good, the true, the beautiful and freedom on the basis of democratic politics.
<We are declaring a ceasefire effective as of today
In this context, in order to pave the way for the implementation of Leader Apo's Call for Peace and Democratic Society, we are declaring a ceasefire to be effective from today on. None of our forces will take armed action unless attacked. Beyond this, only the practical leadership of Leader Apo can make matters such as laying down arms practical.
<Leader Apo must personally direct and lead the Congress
On the other hand, we are ready to convene the party congress as Leader Apo wants. However, in order for this to happen, a suitable security environment must be created, and Leader Apo must personally direct and lead it to make it successful. Up until now, we have led the war to this day - with all its mistakes and shortcomings. However, only Leader Apo can take over the leadership of the era of peace and democratic society.
<Leader Öcalan must be granted conditions to live and work in physical freedom
The concrete facts clearly show that in order for the Call for Peace and Democratic Society to be successfully implemented, for the democratization of Turkey and the Middle East based on a democratic solution to the Kurdish question, and for the development of the global democracy movement, Leader Abdullah Öcalan must be granted with conditions to live and work in physical freedom and establish unhindered relationships with anyone he wants, including his friends. We hope that the requirements of this will be fulfilled by the relevant institutions of the state.
<The Call by Leader Apo is definitely not an end, but rather a new beginning
Our Esteemed People and Friends!
The Call made by Leader Apo is definitely not an end, but rather a new beginning. The statement puts it very strikingly that what we have not been able to do in a timely and sufficient manner over the last 35 years in general and over the last 20 years in particular needs to be done very clearly and sharply now. In this respect, it is necessary to correctly and sufficiently understand the Leader's call, its reasons, the characteristics of the new process and the tasks involved, and to successfully implement the requirements. It is of historic importance to approach the content of the Call with great responsibility and seriousness and to successfully implement it in every area.
<Let us all consider ourselves responsible for the success of this Call
Let us not forget that Leader Apo has always shouldered the biggest burden himself and has illuminated our path and led us. Now, he is taking a new step with the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ and is starting a new process of struggle for all the oppressed, especially women and young people. So, let us correctly understand the characteristics of this new process and successfully fulfill its duties on the basis of always being prepared against all kinds of dirty tricks and attacks. Let us develop our democratic organization and our struggle for freedom in every area with great courage and dedication in Kurdistan, the Middle East and all around the world. Let us all consider ourselves responsible for the success of this Call.
<We call on everyone to support the Leader's Call
We have entered the month of March. We are feeling a new excitement leading us to 8 March and Newroz. We are developing the Women's Freedom Revolution on the basis of Jineoloji, organizing moral and political social life in the Line of Democratic Civilization. We are trying to understand the Apoist reality more accurately and adequately, and to develop the revolution of truth, which is a revolution of mentality and lifestyle. Leader Apo's last Call is a call to embrace 8 March and Newroz more strongly and to celebrate with more enthusiasm. More than anyone else, women and young people need to understand this Call correctly, embrace it strongly and fulfill its requirements.
On this basis, we congratulate all women and young people, our people and our friends on 8 March Working Women's Day and Newroz, and we call on everyone to support the Leader's Call in the spirit of 8 March and Newroz and to develop the freedom struggle in every field!
Long live the Heroic Pioneer of Our People, the PKK!
Bijî Rêber APO!”
>>2169275What serbia,
You mean our pussylips president getting cucked byall?
>>2172492>sounds stupidYes it's fucking absurd. The PKK are still in an active war, DEM leaders are still forced out of office and thrown into jail, and etc, etc.
Nothing good with come of this, i promise.
>>2173723ELN and FARC have caused since January of this year until now more than 56 civilian deaths in Catatumbo, frontier of Venezuela and fundamental maker of coca. More than 85 thousand people displaced, the biggest humanitarian crisis in Colombia.
Catatumbo is rich in petrol, coal, uranio and coltán, has a monoculture of palma aceitera and an extractivist economy, which motivates territorial disputes between those paramilitary groups. The region was used by former Colombian governments to desestabilize Venezuela in hybrid wars by using narcotrafic and violence.
Both Colombia and Venezuela are working together for peace, and to end peacefully and diplomatic the conflict that is fueled by imperialist interests.
Venezuela keeps providing aid to more than 40.000 people displaced by the conflict. In the last 3 years: They seized 100 tons of drugs on the geodesic line, destroyed 47 drug trafficking logistics structures, 36 laboratories for drug processing, as well as 71 clandestine runways.
Peace in Colombia means peace for Venezuela, which means peace for the region.
The PKK is not the next FARC, i can guarantee you that. The people is in Rojava side against imperialism in the region and the terrorist paramilitaries of the HTS.
https://www.telesurtv.net/aumenta-crisis-humanitaria-en-colombia-con-casi-85-000-desplazados-en-el-catatumbo/https://www.telesurtv.net/crisis-de-seguridad-y-humanitaria-en-el-catatumbo-entra-al-segundo-mes/ >>2169303The PKK are going nowhere though.
They are a US proxy much like Turkey.
Turkey is involvement in the war against Syria is primarly for the purpose of advancing the greater Israel project.
In short, this is just meaningless Turkish feel good propaganda.
>>2169641Only one that likes them are the Zionists.
They really have no allies in the region and they are designed this way, so that they can be a good lapdog to the Zionists since no one else in the middle east can stomach them.
They are essentially a bunch of low autism score mercanries who sell their services for a very low price.
>>2173890> The people is in Rojava side against imperialism in the region and the terrorist paramilitaries of the HTS.Than why are they supported by the Zionists and the Americans.
The Zionists are the PINNACLE of US imperialism in West Asia.
>>2172371> We are developing the Women's Freedom Revolution on the basis of Jineoloji, organizing moral and political social life in the Line of Democratic CivilizationMy God, they are a cancer.
They are like a mockery of socialist movement.
Jineoloji?
Seriously!!!??!!
>>2180582>why are they supported by Zionists and the AmericansThe Zionists "support" Rojava in the same way they support Iraqi Kurdistan. See
>>2170165Keep in mind, the YPG and KRG are far from allies.
https://www.rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/16122020The Americans allied with Rojava as a means to fight ISIS.
<but they went in for the oilOil which they don't control and is incapable of being sold to them.
Secondly, by your logic we may as well consider the DAANES as proxies for Russia, considering they too have accepted their support in fighting ISIS and Turkish Proxies and have been vocal pro-Russian supporters
https://npasyria.com/en/66758/https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article37394991.htmlhttps://web.archive.org/web/20171013233406/https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/pictures-us-russian-military-units-patrol-kurdish-controlled-areas-northern-syria/We may as well consider Fidel Castro and Ho Chi Minh as proxies for US imperialism, considering they accepted help from them too.
China is also israel's second largest trading partner and provides arms to saudi arabia, all the while being Australia's largest trading partner but I don't see anyone condemning them for making trade deals with imperialist countries, lol.
>>2180227For context he actually said
<If Israel can "prevent attacks against us and stop the killing of our people, we welcome that and appreciate it," the Commander-in-chief of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), General Mazloum Abdi, stated during an interview with a BBC journalist, according to reports on Wednesday.
<"We welcome anyone in the world who can help support our rights and protect our achievements," Abdi clarified, also stating, "let me give a general answer. We welcome support from anyone."Because yeah, it's not like the HTS and Turkey are committing genocide against Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians, Christians- all of which make up a considerable chunk of the population of the DAANES.
>>2180609>The Americans allied with Rojava as a means to fight ISIS.That's the official narrative but the ISIS is basicly a CIA construct and the various Kurdish terrorists are essentially mercenaries.
Furthermore their leader already stated his his willingness to work with the Zionists.
Not sure what you are trying doing here.
Why are you hell bent on trying to paint a bunch of Zionist supported terrorists as some glorious communist, anti imperialist resistance movement is beyond me.
>>2180609China didn't come into existence due to American imperial meddling.
China doesn't owe it's very existence to American imperial meddling.
China does not have a military alliance with the Zionists, they just sell them stuff as they sell to everyone.
>>2180710Neither did Rojava, lol.
>Realpolitik for me but not for thee. >>2180704>That's the official narrative but the ISIS is basicly a CIA construct and the various Kurdish terrorists are essentially mercenaries.Which Kurdish terrorists? Which Kurdish Mercenaries the PKK? The SDF?
Because if that's your definition of a mercenary, then you're delusional.
>Furthermore their leader already stated his his willingness to work with the Zionists. He also stated his willingness to work with Russia.
>Why are you hell bent on trying to paint a bunch of Zionist supported terrorists as some glorious communist, anti imperialist resistance movement is beyond me.Because they are not Zionist supported terrorists, no matter how much Turk-Nat propaganda you swallow.
>>2180609>Because yeah, it's not like the HTS and Turkey are committing genocide against Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians, ChristiansThis is a straight up Zionist fantasy.
Infact the Zionists through their proxy (ISIS) have been responsible for carrying out attacks against all said groups.
So it makes the most sense to oppose the Zionists FIRST and foremost and they have been the biggest enemy of any secular regime in the region (baathist Iraq and Syria).
Piss off, with your nonsense, you Zionist rat.
Nothing you said even remotely disproves what I said.
>>2180609>Because yeah, it's not like the HTS and Turkey are committing genocide against Kurds, Assyrians, Yazidis, Armenians, Christians- all of which make up a considerable chunk of the population of the DAANES.Oh, yes the Zionists who along with the Americans backed ISIS for years against Assad.
The Zionists who were the primary factor in the destruction of Iraq and life being made hell for all Christians over there!
The Zionists who seek to genocide the native populations of the region so as to make way for the greater Israel project.
They are the TRUE friends of Christians, Azeris, etc…
Piss off, the Zionists are the biggest enemy of any anti imperial actor in Syria or the Middle East, without them pushing the Americans to launch a war against Assad, none of this would have even happened.
>>2180718>this is straight up a zionist fantasyhttps://medyanews.net/rojava-will-not-surrender-to-turkish-attacks/https://apnews.com/article/turkey-territorial-disputes-azerbaijan-ankara-armenia-9a95d9690569623adedffe8c16f3588dhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_KurdsYou may be interested in who Turkey backs btw.
https://www.stimson.org/2024/what-turkey-hopes-to-gain-from-the-hts-offensive-in-syria/https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-erdogan-backs-rebel-offensive-syriayou can call me a zionist rat all you want, it doesn't stop the fact that the HTS is backed by Turkey and the massacres can be attributed to Turkish genocide.
>>2180727>little more than a proxy groupThen you know of the Rojavan revolution, considering this was a mass uprising brought on by the neglect of Assad.
https://web.archive.org/web/20121129100410/http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4992.htmlhttps://justicenotchange.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/michael_knapp_ercan_ayboga_anja_flach_janet_bib-ok-org.pdf
>nothing beneficial comes from cooperating with the ZionistsI agree, but to call them "proxies" and not address the realpolitik is naieve. Rojava's resisting a genocide and fighting a NATO member. To engage a war on three fronts would be dumb.
>I don't care about the branding associated with these Zionist backed kurdish invasive terrorists currently occupying Northeast Syria. Schizo babble.
>The Zionists are the biggest problem currently facing all of Syria. >They seek to promote prepetual chaos via their various proxies. As does Turkey, who are backing the HTS. To act as if they aren't one of the main perpetrators in this conflict is laughable.
>But objective reality is objective reality.A reality which you seem to knowingly deny.
>>2180733>schizo babble and strawmanningI'm not saying that Israel is going to save anyone, they aren't. What I'm saying is that it makes sense that the DAANES is playing the game to prevent an escalation of further conflict, lol.
>>2180741Not really, it's an objective observation of geopolitical reality.
You have a heavily armed actor that primarly acts in the interests of the Zionists in the region.
Hell, even the Americans already admitted to have armed ISIS, they just make the infalisiable claim that it was by accident and the even more clearly false claim that they stopped.
>>2180741Lil bro forgot the crocus shootings 💀
They happened soon after Nuland said that "Putin will get a nasty surprise". Both America and ISIS-K immediately claimed ISIS-K did it in a fucking comical display until the shooters were detained and questioned.
>>2169271> https://medyanews.net/rojava-will-not-surrender-to-turkish-attacks/> https://apnews.com/article/turkey-territorial-disputes-azerbaijan-ankara-armenia-9a95d9690569623adedffe8c16f3588d> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_KurdsWOW, a literally who opinion article, along with another article citing Turkish political disputes with other groups?
WOW!
Kurdish genocide proven.
Let's ignore the millions of kurds living in Turkey.
> You may be interested in who Turkey backs btw.Same as what the US and Zionists back, HTS along with various terrorists orgs so as to help break up Syria into managable slave micro states, that the pitiable Zionists could deal with.
>×Then you know of the Rojavan revolution, considering this was a mass uprising brought on by the neglect of Assad. >https://web.archive.org/web/20121129100410/http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4992.html> https://justicenotchange.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/michael_knapp_ercan_ayboga_anja_flach_janet_bib-ok-org.pdfOpinion articles by literally who publication hardly prove anything.
Anyhow there was no revolution, America simply invited the Kurdish terrorists Mercenaries in with the purposes of using them as a Zionist official proxy in Syria.
> who are backing the HTS.Both the West and the Zionists back them, as well as benefit from them.
All you do is list reasons as to why the Zionists must be opposed.
>>2180774>calling documented articles and news covering the Rojava revolution as well as historic accounts “Opinion pieces”
Why is it that whenever people like you are confronted on your bullshit your first response is to either use buzzwords or downplay the evidence in a dismissive fashion, in spite of the evidence that clearly disproves the arguments you make?
>>2180785>documented articles and news covering the Rojava revolution as well as historic accounts Citing literally who meme online publications and expecting me to abide by their authority will not work.
I have exactly ZERO reason to trust any of these publications.
>>2180788>Also Kurds are being persecuted in TurkeyWhat happened to your genocide claims, my Zionist freind?
You downgraded it to "presuction".
Anyhow, the modern state of turkey does not persecute the kurds, it attacks Zionist backed terrorist and mercanries like the PKK and other but not kurds as a whole.
Infact the current Turkish FM, spy chief and finance minister are fucking kurdish.
Just stop already.
Your Zionist propaganda doesn't work anyone with even a surface level understanding of modern Turkey.
>>2180817>>doesn’t bother reading how the Kurdish language has been banned among other cultural practices Pretty sure you can speak kurdish in turkey.
It's not used in official documents, but that's about it.
>>persection isn’t genocideIt isn't.
Genocide has a very specific definition.
>>Middle East eye is a literal whoYou cited many e-publications.
Anyhow, in the specific post I was responding to, you did not cite the middle east eye.
In the one post where you cite, it claims that turkey supports HTS, which I fully agree with, they do, them along with the Americans and the Zionists.
Anyhow, you have failed to demonstrate how the millions of kurds who hold very high positions in the Turkish government are being prosecuted or genocided.
> THEIR LANGUAGE WAS BANNED AT SOME POINTWe are talking about the current time.
You can speak kurdish as much as you like in turkey, the current spy minister most certainly does.
>>2180819>The Turkish state also literally removed Kurdish mayors from their positions on the basis they were “in line with the PKK” lol. Nothing wrong with removing Zionist backed terrorist.
Literally every state does this.
Not sure how this counts as kurdish prosecution.
I wonder how ordered their removal was It the KURDISH spy chief, does he also hate kurds?
You have no argument, all you have is a pathetic attempt to conflate the PKK, Zionist backed terror group with actual kurds.
>>2180838>you have no argumentAs opposed to you who is straight up making excuses for the Turkish government and calling everyone you don’t like a Zionist, dismisses a 200 page document on the Rojava revolution WHICH COVERS THE PERSECUTION KURDS FACE AT THE HANDS OF THE TURKISH STATE and then call it an op ed.
Wow, you sure showed lil ol “Zionist rat” me
>>2169435What are you even implying? That the United States was behind the PKK?
Why the fuck would the United States be behind the PKK? Turkey is in NATO and is an Israel lickspittle. The US wouldn't fund a bunch of far-left revolutionaries over one president they didn't like.
There's a chance they may have been planning some kind of Maidan-style shitlib color revolution coup, but they're not going to pull out the stops for a loyal dog that was a little erratic.
>>2180928>As opposed to you who is straight up making excuses for the Turkish government Everything I stated about them was a fact, I dare you to contest them.
> and calling everyone you don’t like a Zionist, I have ONLY called YOU a Zionist, which you are.
> dismisses a 200 page document on the Rojava revolution WHICH COVERS THE PERSECUTION KURDS FACE AT THE HANDS OF THE TURKISH STATE and then call it an op ed. I am not going to read ANYTHING from some literally who, you have not demonstrated the authenticity of such documents, as such they will be ignored.
There was evidently no such thing as a rojava "revolution", as all that happened is a bunch of American backed kurdish mercanries moved into Syria.
>>2180948>Dog it’s not worth debating people who aren’t arguing in good faith, to them anything non arab nationalist in the region is automatically zionistThe classic….
> OMG YOU THINK EVERYTHING IS ZIONISTAre you denying the Zionist influence in the conflict?
Hell, they were the ones that convinced the Americans to start backing the terrorist to begin with.
You are delusonial.
>>2180956>That the United States was behind the PKK?In Syria and elsewhere, it is.
>Why the fuck would the United States be behind the PKK? Because America seeks to manufacture a proxy for the Zionists in Syria.
> The US wouldn't fund a bunch of far-left revolutionaries over one president they didn't like.There is nothing left wing or revolutionary about them, as they are quite LITERALLY on America's payroll.
>>2181260This!
Fuck em and their Zionist allies. : )
>>2181494the mercenaries in syria are various islamists, the kurds were already there. PKK is not synonymous with rojava/YPG, even if the limit is quite porous.
I have a lot of criticism for them (chiefly collaborating with the US in the operation to bring the downfall of syria), but lets not fall into retarded oversimplifications either, and they definitely seem to believe in their ideology, and they dont act like ethno nationalists (not that they can really afford to). Collaborating with the US does not mean being nothing more than their appendix. US collaborated with talibans against communists, and they then fought each other.
>>2181474>muh mods persecutiongrow up newfriend
>>2183016it's good when China/Rojava/USSR does it but its bad and opportunist and need to be refused and demonized when China/Rojava/USSR does it.
-leftist with siderism at display
>>2183016>I challenge any anti-Rojava poster to tell me the difference between Rojava's foreign policy and China's.I see this is how you people get your convictions. I mean, it's not like anyone is actually relying on you to learn anything from the past ten years. You've encountered a series of people baffled by your aggression and lack of introspection.
>prove this negative or I winNo you're right they're the same. You understand logic too well for my tankie brain. I yield! Make another notch on the bedpost for Assadists owned. Bet you have a lot of new ones after the past few days in Lakatia.
>>2183059Wtf are you even on about? My point is that virtually any criticism levelled against Rojava can also he applied to China. It makes no sense to consider these making one unworthy of sympathy but not the other.
>Make another notch on the bedpost for Assadists ownedAssad owned himself when he somehow lost to an enemy he had already defeated. For all the talk of Rojava being a foreign proxy they didn't immediately collapse the moment they had to stand on their own two feet. Clearly they have more organic legitimacy among the people they govern than the Ba'athists did, and if you really support a secular, multiethnic, anti-NATO, and socialist oriented Syria they're the only option left.
>>2183176>any criticism that can be levelled against Rojava can be levelled against Chinathat's not true, even dialing this back from the lunatic position of acting like their situations and behaviors are remotely comparable to "many criticisms" it's basically just an excuse for you to play your favorite glowslop hits while ignoring serious criticisms
Obviously Assad is retarded I mean he refused to take the Dengpill and was giving speeches about epic third way ideology mere months before the collapse. He did not accept foreign investment from Russia and China on a large enough scale because his daddy told him it would politically weaken the regime. I mean come on. Makes no difference here because not being enough of a #RegimepilledWarrior isn't what your grievance with him is now is it anon? Doesn't change Rojava's contribution to the failure of the state at all.
>they didn't immediately collapseI think the use of tbe qualifier *immediately* is too generous anon. If HTS #FreeSyria only makes it like 6 months I will also say it "collapsed immediately".
>>2183229>that's not true, even dialing this back from the lunatic position of acting like their situations and behaviors are remotely comparableYou're right, Rojava never tried to overthrow multiple communist governments.
>>2183233>now they are accepting constitutional recognition under an actual islamist theocracyThey repeatedly tried to obtain constitutional recognition under Assad too. Again, the worst thing you can say about them is that they're pragmatists.
>I genuinely can't understand the desire to defend them from criticism onlineCriticism is fine as long as it's based in reality, but a lot of the anti-Rojava stuff that gets posted here is just unhinged nonsense and insane exaggerations.
>>2183235(You)r attempt at a pithy comment to deflect has been noted. I think we both understand this is an apples to oranges comparison and you would rather just pout or rattle off screeds MLM style. If you don't want to understand why Marxist
-Leninists are universally against peripheral countries becoming failed states, or what role Rojava played in its own failure and the collapse of Syria into an Islamic State, you don't have to. We can play pretend that sacrificing everything to achieve nothing, except maybe just to spite Assad was worth it while people get gang raped. Does it make you feel better to pretend that Rojava was a successful socialist experiment? This isn't a game of who can draw the most superficial parallels or use the most debate tricks. This should be about charting long-term development. Not celebrating the accomplishment of conceding to ISIS.
You cannot expect anyone to take generalizations between a faction in a civil war relying on external aid and a large country inhabited by many Chinese capable of autarky seriously
[Syrian Kurds join government-controlled security forces](
https://tass.com/world/1925311)
📆 _Mon, 10 Mar 2025 21:42:01 +0300_It is reported that a relevant agreement was signed during al-Sharaa’s meeting with SDF commander Mazloum Abdi
['No safe streets': Lawlessness takes hold of Syria under HTS-led government](
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/29318)
📆 _Mon, 10 Mar 2025 19:13:47 +0200_Syrian women fear leaving the house at night amid a rash of kidnappings and ongoing security vacuum
[All Kurdish facilities in northwestern Syria to go over to Damascus’ control](
https://tass.com/world/1925319)
📆 _Mon, 10 Mar 2025 21:59:16 +0300_It is reported that these facilities include in particular all checkpoints in Kurdish territories, an airport, and oil and gas fields
[Palestinian Authority condemns the occupation regime's power cut in Gaza](
https://en.irna.ir/news/85774854/Palestinian-Authority-condemns-the-occupation-regime-s-power)
📆 _Mon, 10 Mar 2025 20:03:42 GMT_The Palestinian Authority's Ministry of Foreign Affairs condemns the Israeli regime's power cut in the Gaza Strip, calling it an action aimed at deepening the genocidal war, displacing the region's residents, and causing a humanitarian disaster in all areas of their lives.
>>2183404>The fact that you'll bend over backwards to make excuses for objectively more destructive/reactionary actions by your favoured governmentsThe "excuse" being the acknowledgment that the country was sanctioned and had imperialist proxy forces dissolving it from within. The excuse being that Assad misplayed there by not working with Iran, China, and Russia more? How is any of this an excuse?
Again you're unable to face anti-imperialist criticism of your favorite faction, you just say it's cancelled out by criticisms of Assad. Like the criticisms of Assad which I brought up myself in the post you're replying to. Whining about how the people who allied with the US to steal grain and oil starving out the Syrian people out shouldn't be criticized for it because of the big bad regime is pointless.
None of this is about "favored governments", which is the only way that eggheads like you can conceptualize the basics of internationalism. If you have some kind of problem with people resenting an imperialist proxy you could have tried being less annoying about it at any point in the past ten years. You people are knuckle dragging cheerleading psychopaths who got led down the garden path by the same people cheering on today's pogroms. Grow up already
>>2183437>Whining about how the people who allied with the US to steal grain and oil starving out the Syrian people out shouldn't be criticized for it because of the big bad regime is pointless.Are we still falling for this meme? The Rojavans control their oil, and due to the embargo that is still on Syria they have no one to sell it to. The only people they could sell it to was Assad.
>b-but AssadAgain, should have thought about that before he left the Kurds at the mercy of ISIS. In doing so they decided to take matters into their own hands.
>but why are they intergrating with the Syrian GovernmentI don't know what to tell you, this has always been the case even under Assad. Detente with the state is a strategy that has been proposed by folks such as Abdullah Ocalan, even proposing such strategies to be deployed in Turkey- you know, the country which is actively persecuting Kurds and backing Islamists. Wether they will "honour" the deal is a different matter entirely.
>>2183437>Again you're unable to face anti-imperialist criticism of your favorite factionI accept criticism that they could have been even more conciliatory to Assad and that they never should have worked with the Americans. I don't accept the "criticism" (ie slander) that they're a mindless proxy of the US with no independent goals, that they're an ethnostate, and that they're aligned with Zionism.
>Whining about how the people who allied with the US to steal grain and oil starving out the Syrian people out Again, this is why I bring up Assad's own failings. This was not a one sided issue, he had opportunities to reconcile with the Kurds and cut out the Americans, opportunities which his Russian allies urged him to take advantage of. He refused, and reaped what he sowed. You're effectively chastising the Kurds for not unconditionally surrendering their hard won autonomy to a government that had proven it was incapable of protecting them from terrorists.
>If you have some kind of problem with people resenting an imperialist proxyI have a problem with people letting resentment get in the way of clear headed analysis.
>>2183241>The agreement signed on Monday calls for SDF-controlled border crossings, an airport and oil and gas fields in eastern Syria to become part of the Damascus administration.So jihadists led by Sheikh Jolani are democratic and minority-friendly enough to be given the oil. Not Assad though. He was a dictator.
>the deal represents a "real opportunity to build a new Syria."The great opportunity being the destruction of the Syrian state by Turkey and a full Al-Qaeda takeover
>The deal also commits the SDF to combating remnants of Assad's regime.These democratic and feminist worms are cheering on the genocide of the Alawites.
>>2183480>So jihadists led by Sheikh Jolani are democratic and minority-friendly enough to be given the oil.Oil is remaining under SDF control. They issued a statement denying that it will be changing hands.
>These democratic and feminist worms are cheering on the genocide of the Alawites.They have already issued a statement denouncing it and there were clashes between SDF and HTS forces.
>>21834801. The Rojavans control the oil. Their government operates and controls the oil field, not the USA or any private company.
2. They couldn't sell the oil to the US even if they wanted to, owing to the economic embargo placed on the united States.
https://rojavainformationcenter.org/2020/07/the-national-interest-can-the-u-s-stop-syrias-kurds-from-selling-oil-to-assad/ https://rojavainformationcenter.org/2020/08/did-mike-pompeo-mislead-congress-about-syrias-oil/ Secondly, the YPJ- the feminists- have publically condemned the genocide against the alawites and are making plans to help defend them and hold those who committed the genocide to account.
https://x.com/RojavaNetwork/status/1899143699423965360>>2183490That's bullshit and you know it.
Read
>>2182686>>2182695 >>2183446>still falling for this memeYeah the meme of the US openly stealing the oil and bragging about it. Cat's out of the bag sorry. Trump has a way with words.
>it's all Assad's fault we could have had based Rojava if not for him>integrating with ISIS was always the planVery cool! I love this Ocalan guy's strategy, assuming he is alive. That doesn't really jive with them having disastrous armed clashes with them ending in atrocities mere weeks ago but I'm sure with a more advanced grasp of dialectics it would all be clear.
>>2183492>not the USAStraight up bullshitting now.
>>2183484>ngmiThis project just handed over everything they fought for to their rapists. I am not trying to dance on people's graves here but you seem delusional.
>>2183469I think "clear headed analysis" should start by acknowledging that we now exist in the present day and everything you're talking about has been a complete failure that ushered in misery for millions of people. Purpose of a system is what it does, and all that jazz. I have not been arguing about this for ten years so I'll give you some time!
But sure I'm happy to retread the issue of how the YPG enabled US, Israeli, and Turkish predation in the region sometime, I figure you'll still be around saying the same old shit later.
>>2183502>Yeah the meme of the US openly stealing the oil and bragging about it. Cat's out of the bag sorry. Trump has a way with words.Again, they couldn't "steal" the oil if they wanted to. I literally linked you to the evidence proving this point, why are you deliberately acting like a fuckwit?
>Straight up bullshitting now.Read the resources linked.
>This project just handed over everything they fought for to their rapists. I am not trying to dance on people's graves here but you seem delusional.In what way?
https://x.com/RojavaNetwork/status/1899200802217984285Ferhad Shamî:
- There is no truth to the entry of HTS into our areas
- There is a possibility that HTS will enter the border crossings only
- There is no change to the oil file, the prison file, and the war on ISIS
- The agreement is a preliminary agreement with effective American mediation
- This agreement is to stop the Turkish mobilizations
- The return of the displaced people of the city of Afrin to their homes is being discussed
- There is media pressure, excuse us for the shortcomings
- These are just preliminary agreements, and later the committees will work on clarifying it
>>2183501>it's just a national struggle >which was born out of assad's neo-liberal reforms, turkish imperialism and has set up a government based on seizing the MOP and creating communes. >it says nothing of class struggle Ok, so you didn't read it.
Gotcha.
Tell you what, how about you read this
https://justicenotchange.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/michael_knapp_ercan_ayboga_anja_flach_janet_bib-ok-org.pdf
>Rojava’s economic underdevelopment is simultaneously a great disadvantage and an opportunity. It allows the traditional social collectivism of the Kurdish people to be channeled positively to build a new, alternative economy. Indeed, integrating traditional structures is a typical approach of the Kurdish freedom movement, connecting tradition and emancipation. That new economy is called the “social economy” and is distinguished from both the neoliberalism of capitalist modernity and from Real Socialism’s state capitalism. According to Dr. Yousef, “The artificial creation of needs, the adventuristic search for new markets, and the bottomless greed for ever more gigantic profits widen the gap between rich and poor, and the army of those who live on the poverty level or die of hunger multiplies in size. Humanity can no longer bear such an economic policy. The greatest task is therefore the creation of an alternative economy, one that does not rest exclusively on the quest for profits but is oriented toward the just redistribution of wealth.”
<Azize Aslan agrees: “Capitalism foregrounds exchange value, the production of things for the market. It rests entirely on the profit motive; production is not for the society but for the market. But a society that cannot determine its economic activities is helpless even to improve the lot of its own workforce. We are forced to work for pathetic wages, for miniscule compensation, but we do it anyway. We work in the informal sector without job security, withoutunionization, but we work regardless.”
<“Historically, the economy developed separately from society,” observes Dr. Dara Kurdaxi, a member of the economics commission in Afrîn. “That led to the establishment of exploitative states and finally economic liberalism. In contrast, state socialism, which diverged from its own economic ideas, made the economy part of the state and turned everything over to the state. But [state capitalism] is clearly not so different from multinational firms, trusts, and corporations … We should have no capitalist system here—that system fails to respect the environment and perpetuates class contradictions and ultimately serves only capital … We in Rojava must follow a different model.”
>An economy was needed that would emancipate social consciousness from both capitalistic and feudal compulsions and so achieve a social revolution. The idea of extending democracy to economic life originated in discussions in TEV-DEM and other parts of the democratic self-government. It would be called the social economy. The goal of a social economy, says Dr. Kurdaxi, is to achieve a democratized economy. “Economic development must have the society clearly as a goal … Our system should be participatory, supporting natural resources and creating a strong infrastructure.” The social economy was to be entrusted to the hands of the society, which would implement economic activities in the residential streets, villages, neighborhoods, district, and cantons. In communalism, all resources, including factories, are self-governed through the communes. Every economic entity, as Murray Bookchin observes, is a
“material constituent of its free institutional framework … part of a larger whole that is controlled by the citizen body in assembly as citizens—not as ‘workers,’
>‘farmers,’ ‘professionals,’ or any other vocationally oriented special-interest groups.”13 “We are building a communal, social economy,” Dozdar Hemo, Cizîrê’s economics adviser, told us in 2014. “Everyone should have the opportunity to participate and, as a minimal first step, to achieve subsistence.”
>Once the idea of a social economy was settled upon, the council system became the mover of the process. About 80 percent of the land in Rojava had been nationalized under the Syrian regime. After the revolution, this formerly state owned land was socialized: that is, it was transferred to the communes. “When the regime fled,” Dozdar Hemo told us in Dêrîk, “we transferred the state-owned land—which actually belongs to the society—to the people.” The communes inturn initiated the creation of the social economy by distributing it for agriculture cooperatives, especially “for the poor and for families of martyrs,” as Hemo told us.
>In 2015, more than 2,500 hectares of formerly state-owned land were redistributed to the councils in Serêkaniyê alone, and more will follow.16 “The bulk of the land,” Hemo continues, “is going to the cooperatives—the exceptionsare small areas, from one to four hectares, that individual families can also obtain. No new large landholdings are to emerge.” The self-government, in deliberate contrast to the Ba’ath regime, spurns the use of force, so no large landholdings have been expropriated.
<b-but this is not class struggle. >>2183506>the regime you oustedMe? I personally ousted Assad? I, a Greek Australian trans woman lead a Kurdish people's militia to overthrow the Lion of Damascus? Never knew you viewed me in such a sublime light. But regardless, that's bullshit.
The Rojavans never wanted a war with Assad.
So, I'll post this again seeing as no one actually bothers to read.
>A “Damascus Spring” was anticipated for Bashar Al-Assad’s rule, with hopes that he would expand political liberties, but such hopes were disappointed. In fact, the authoritarian system shed its social aspects and shifted to neoliberalism. The state now promoted economic liberalization. State-owned lands were privatized, and public resources were re-distributed based on nepotism. Commercialized agriculture depleted the groundwater, and price controls on pesticides and animal feed were lifted.55 Assad turned against the unions, even though they were cowed and loyal to the state—he now considered them an obstacle to economic liberalization and cut off their financing. Economic liberalization led to an influx of foreign investment, especially from Kuwait, Qatar, and the Emirates, but plunged the rural population into poverty. Rojava was one of the regions most affected, forcing Kurds to migrate to the cities. As the last remnants of the social state were dismantled, and as the public sectorwas devastated and capital accumulated in the hands of the few, popular suffering heightened. In 2010, Bashar al-Assad streamlined the Ba’ath Party’s structure so that it could implement decisions without friction. Officialdom came to be represented mainly by corrupt security forces. The distance between state and population widened, and traditional sources of authority were strengthened. A new free- trade zone flooded local markets with cheap goods, devastating small shops and workshops, the economic backbone of Middle Eastern economies. Wages collapsed, so that in 2010, 61 percent of workers earned less than $190 per month.56 Investment was channeled into the service sector and into tourism and hotels, while only 13 percent went into production.
>But the Kurds pushed them out with muh US backing.
<In July, former soldiers, including onetime Colonel Riad Al-Asaad, founded the Free Syrian Army (FSA) as the armed wing of the Syrian opposition. It comprised mainly Sunnis, who were Syria’s majority. The Gulf States backed the FSA financially.9 The FSA was also backed by Turkey [see 14.2], which meant it would not be an acceptable ally for the Kurdish movement. The Kurdish freedom movement, especially the youth organization and the PYD, supported resistance to the Assad regime as a matter of democratic change; it did not want the conflict to be militarized. But gradually the political conflict turned into civil war, the opposition to Assad became Islamized to a large extent, its democratic character became marginalized, and foreign regional and international forces began to dominate these Islamized parts and the Ba’ath regime. Neither the regime nor the opposition were responsive to Kurdish demands for recognition, so Rojava’s Kurdish movement opted for a third path: it would side neither with the regime nor with the opposition. Would it defend itself? Yes. Would it participate in the civil war? No.
>“We positioned ourselves as a third force” between the regime and the opposition, said Hisên: “Our declared goals within the Syrian rebellion were (1) to permit no attack on Syria from the outside, (2) to avoid armed struggle, (3) to find solutions through dialogue and ally with other opposition forces. But once we established ourselves, people started attacking us. They accused us of collaborating with the regime. It’s a lie—the regime had always oppressed the Kurds. Even as you and I are speaking today, there are still people in prison from the old days. We don’t collaborate with the regime … And most of the Syrian opposition was Islamist, and we couldn’t ally with them—a revolution can’t come from the mosque.
>“Abdullah Öcalan had said only a few sentences about Rojava,” Hisên recalled, “but those became our program. ‘I know the people of Rojava,’ he said. ‘They should organize themselves, build a party, and create self-defense forces. Politically, they should organize themselves independently from both the regime and the opposition.’ We took these sentences as the basis of our work.”
>“In the spring of 2011, we expected that the protest movement would spread,” Silvan Afrîn told us. “We talked about how to get ready for it, and what we would do. We were very watchful. That spring we began to build people’s organizations. The question arose as to how we would protect ourselves. So in July or August we established the YXG [predecessor of the YPG],” the Self Protection Units. “At first we were few in number, as most people were still so intimidated by the state. We invited all the minorities to a founding congress, but because the war was going on, only a handful had the courage to show up. “The only party that supported us was the PYD. We were always criticized for that, but the PYD had worked every day at the grass-roots, and our numbers grew. We built the armed units illicitly. Many people in Kurdistan had weapons hidden away: shotguns, pistols, Kalashnikovs. Within six or seven months we organized the self-defense committees of the YXG clandestinely.” “The first to join,” Heval Amer told us, “were young people from the streets, with no strong [political] views. As soon as the first martyrs fell, more peoplejoined. Almost every family already had members who were martyrs,” meaning PKK guerrillas. “At first our work was very dangerous. Regime agents were everywhere, all around us. In all of Dêrîk there was only one friend [heval]. But gradually we visited all the families of martyrs and prisoners, and everyone was ready to do something. The state left us in peace, and we established a few strong points.”
<Councils had already been created illegally, but in August 2011, the PYD established the People’s Council of West Kurdistan (MGRK) to continue and advance the councils [see 6.2]: “Throughout Rojava we held elections, and three hundred people were elected to the People’s Council, to shape the politics of Rojava.” As part of the third path, the MGRK proposed a peaceful democratic solution to Syria’s political problems, leading to the creation of the National Coordination Committee for Democratic Change (NCC) in 2011 in Damascus. The NCC advocated nonviolent protest and opposed intervention from abroad; it also advocated a new political system for Syria that was neither religious nor ethnic in orientation. It pointed out that should the anti-Assad protests become militarized, the result would be an endless civil war, and the parties would become enmeshed in the bloc conflict between the West and China, Russia, and Iran.
<Countering the NCC was the Syrian National Council (SNC), founded in August 2011 in Istanbul, to oppose the Assad regime; sponsored by Turkey and Gulf States, it was dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood. It did not seek the formation of a decentralized and multi-ethnic Syria as a priority. (Although it accepted different cultures, the Arabic element was considered superior; it said that the discussion of a future Syria should be postponed until after the Ba’ath regime was no more.) It sought the immediate overthrow of Assad rather than a democratic transition, and it opened the country to the influence of external powers. The fact that one Kurdish or Syriac party joined the SNC did not change its character. The MGRK met several times with the SNC but found no basis for collaboration because of the latter’s close ties to the Turkish state.
<At 1 a.m. on the night of July 18–19, 2012, the YPG took control of the roads leading in and out of Kobanî city. Inside the city, the majority of the people, who supported the MGRK, occupied the state institutions. “We had marked which buildings we should take over,” recalled Pelda Kobanî, who participated that night, “which ones were useful for the people, even bakeries.”14 The people thenassembled at the regime army’s strongpoint in Kobanî, and a delegation informed the regime soldiers, “If you give up your weapons, your security will be guaranteed.” The soldiers looked out over the mass of people, and seeing that they had no alternative, they agreed; some returned to their families in the Arab cities, while others preferred to remain in Kobanî because they had lived there
for forty years.
>“The state had no substantial military force,” said Hanife Hisên. “We surrounded them … and they surrendered. The regime couldn’t send them any reinforcements. We didn’t turn a single soldier over to the regime—we just talked to them and called their families to come pick them up. The ones who wanted to join the FSA, we let them go to Turkey.” Heval Amer points out that when the regime troops left, “we didn’t let them take their weapons. So they left behind many, even heavy weapons.” Because the liberation was bloodless, Hisên recalled, “people said the regime had turned the weapons over to us. But it’s a lie.” “When the people awoke the next morning,” Pelda Kobanî recalled, “and saw our flags flying over the roofs instead of the regime’s, they were stunned. Even months later many were still worried that the regime would return.” People had so internalized their fear of the regime, she recalled, that the actions of July 19 were initially incomprehensible to them.
<…In town after town, the pattern continued. The people surrounded the military bases and gave the scant regime troops the option to withdraw. The popular self- organization prevented anyone from committing acts of vengeful destruction.
>“We weren’t trying to grab some weapons and point them at the regime,” said Ilham Ahmed. “We wanted to achieve a democratic Syria by peaceful means. Because we made that choice, we were criticized: ‘Why aren’t you fighting? You’re not resisting.’ We tried to explain that we thought our course was the better one. The Middle East is known for spilling blood. As Kurds, we wanted to show that things can be different, that people can also stand up for their rights using peaceful means.”
<Finally, recalled Heval Amer, “only Qamişlo remained in regime hands. The situation was critical. Many tribes live there, and they have federations. We liberated the predominantly Kurdish neighborhoods, but the center of Qamişlo remained under the control of the regime, and also the road to the airport. We had no intention of fighting a war against the Syrian state—we’re a defense force. If we had started a war, the regime would have bombed our cities. We preferred to solve things at the level of dialogue.”
<…But in the spring of 2012, the state maintained its grip on power only in the city centers, in public buildings, and in neighborhoods where it had political support (particularly Arab and Syriac). It still provided a few basic services like trash removal, but inadequately. Some predominantly Kurdish neighborhoods, like Hilelî in Qamişlo, were cut off from public services entirely. On July 18, 2012, armed Syrian opposition forces launched an offensive on Damascus and Aleppo. The MGRK and YPG expected that the FSA and others would enter Rojava soon, to attack the state there. The next day, the revolution started in Kobanî. In just over a year, from March 2011 to July 19, 2012, Rojava had established its new direct-democratic social order. This lead time was very short, but on July 19 it was ready. The revolution succeeded because the people in cities and villages had organized themselves in advance. After the revolution of July 19, the MGRK became the politically responsible entity in the liberated areas. It had to prove that the people’s councils andcommunes were not simply an emergency administration, as the ENKS claimed; rather, they were a conscious, ongoing project. So they were obliged to come up with solutions for all social problems, even as important sectors of the population remained uninvolved, especially in Cizîrê…
>>2183516>it's all fake patriots are in controlYeah sure whatever, keep posting Rojava information center articles saying everything is actually fine and they haven't served as a proxy force for the US. I'm well aware they have been busy debunking all the evil Assadists. Doesn't mean anything it's like writing articles saying you planned to shit your pants. I feel bad for them, having the NAFO posters on your side must be worse than nothing. People cheering on your defeats so they can win online arguments.
>Rojava’s economic underdevelopment is simultaneously a great disadvantage and an opportunity. It allows the traditional social collectivism of the Kurdish people to be channeled positively to build a new, alternative economy. Indeed, integrating traditional structures is a typical approach of the Kurdish freedom movement, connecting tradition and emancipation. That new economy is called the “social economy” and is distinguished from both the neoliberalism of capitalist modernity and from Real Socialism’s state capitalism. This is retarded lol this is even more retarded than epic Baathism where you refuse foreign investment and flee the country
>>2183528>Yeah sure whatever, keep posting Rojava information center articles saying everything is actually fine and they haven't served as a proxy force for the US. I'm well aware they have been busy debunking all the evil Assadists. Doesn't mean anything it's like writing articles saying you planned to shit your pants. I feel bad for them, having the NAFO posters on your side must be worse than nothing. People cheering on your defeats so they can win online arguments.The Rojava information centre also covers news from other sources, you would know this if you actually bothered to read them. But it just seems to me you're more content making snide "gotchas" as opposed to actually engaging with the information in a meaningful way. Maybe you should go to /pol/- they have as much cognitive dissonance as you do.
>This is retarded lol this is even more retarded than epic Baathism where you refuse foreign investment and flee the countryI love this patern where you deliberately downplay or shift the goals in the argument.
>they're US backed! <gives evidence it was a grass roots uprising >They're not class conscious!<gives evidence on the reasons why they had the revolution and the form that they took>its just a national liberation struggle <gives evidence of a social economy>oh this just sounds dumb! Ngmi.
>>2183537>go back to /pol/>ngmiNot even a gotcha just a "future is now old man" response to your sweaty typing. You sound like an incel who has been in the basement arguing about this for ten years. Maybe that's why it bothers you that I'm not willing to relitigate every lie you've already swallowed in order to convince you what is happening is in fact happening. You are spinning conceding to ISIS as both a win that was always planned and a brutal necessity resulting from their hand being forced.
People like you just don't matter any longer. Like the NAFOids you were a human condom to be tossed aside. I have sympathy for the Rojavans, but not for people like you.
>>2183548>I'm not sweaty>replying to post that was deleted for an edit after like 2 seconds>ough debate me about everything I've spent the last ten years insisting onWell if you wonder why I can have sympathy for them it's because your version of sympathy involves saying that when bad things happen to them and their sacrifices are all wasted that it's Actually Good and my version involves wanting them to live in a non-failed state instead of fighting to achieve a worse deal than they were getting.
I even want good things for you that's why I'm going to tell you to go get some pussy. Grow and learn. Do a postmortem on like fifteen years of chasing a mirage because Chris Helali and Brace Belden told you these guys were hecking based. It was pointless. I spent the entire time not doing that, for free. Imagine that.
>>2183554>they have not done that.Yes they have, read the link
>purple prose nationalism? really??<indigenous practices are purple prose nationalism >this is pure glittering generality and nationalismSome one hasn't read the link
>basic land reform goodAgain, someone hasn't read the link
>are you retarded? Projection thy name is Glownonymous.
Again pattern of deliberately downplaying and/or shifting the goals in the argument.
>>2183558Cope.
>>2183562I accept your surrender.
>>2183566>I accept your surrender.There is a fundamental difference between people who base their worldview and self worth on imageboard debates and people who talk like normal human beings. This is related to why having you NAFOids has done very little to help the region. Human condoms.
Why don't you go tell Ocalan and his followers about how many online arguments you've won? They'll be very grateful.
>>2183580>it's also good and they're winning.The "Heads I win, Tails you lose" double bind propaganda used to be…
<Do you prefer to back NATO imperialism because it favors AANES OR because it disfavors Assad? But now Baathists are gone from power and it seems the USA/Israel and possibly Russia are aiming to foment sectarian conflict to protect their stake in the failing state from being unilaterally consolidated by a rival. It only makes sense for a resurgent (read: NATO backed) ISIS to give all the factions an excuse to (follow their orders to) collaborate while the backroom deals between the actual owners of the MoP are smoothed out.
So we go back to
<Do you prefer to back NATO imperialism because it favors AANES OR because it disfavors Assad ISIS? Which I won't tire of reminding everybody is the anti-campist position. Remove agency from western imperialism and the world hegemon, narrow the critique to it's opponents and wish-cast progress as far from reality as possible, usually widespread revolution.
>>2183781nta
One can believe that things can be better even as they are get worse. It's called hope
>>2183799Yeah I've heard of that stuff. I don't indulge personally but I think criminalizing it would be extreme. Doesn't seem like the right thing to be high on at a time like this.
Rather than expanding our hope stash and stocking up for the next regime change attempt people should be expanding into pool of infinite dread and disgust, accepting that people can cook and eat you in a big stew to gain your strength and there is no God to stop them.
>>2183716>because it favors AANES
it clearly doesn't lol
>>2183570>Ocalan wrong country
>>2183810well if all they want is to rape us, we don't really owe your our
lives do we?
>>2183827I mean it's either incel coded or MtFemcel doomer brickposting and I know the "anti-campist" demographic here leans a certain way, either way it's a weird ass way to tell people they're never going to become the true leftist like you (also a weird liberal Christoid way to speak to people about it although you're joking). IDK unserious and fatalistic shit that shouldn't have to be our problem. It's like that dem poll wonk Ettingermentum coming out with an article saying The Most Important Thing To Learn From The Dems' Loss Is Nothing. Don't ask questions about why the based (they're not) regime change op has immediately collapsed post regime change just keep regime changing learn nothing
>>2183830Oh sorry for mixing up the concepts of incels 4chan and crypto people who are also incels imitating them redditly will grow+learn+do better+selfcrit oomphy
>>2183825Wrong. Right country. Now its left. Sad!
>>2183826🕳️
>>2183886>the kurds have failed in building dual power>they aren't aware of building detente with the stateIf you bothered to read any of theory I linked you (still have yet to properly engage with that jineology book I linked you), you would know forming dual power is known as "detente" with the state- not that I'd expect any of you lot to know a thing or two about democratic confederalism. Pic related- especially in regards to "Iran".
Secondly- such dual power orgs have existed outside of Rojava. So i don't know where you're getting your info from. I thought you organised with the Kurds?
:^)
https://files.libcom.org/files/DemAut.pdf
>so that leaves us with rojava building building dual power against… assad, the only non-compromised political leader in the region. very nice. i <3 dialectical bullshit that justifies all our errors and i FUCKING LOVE that 'ruthless criticism against everything' applies everywhere EXCEPT with the kurds. You're allowed to criticise the Kurds so long as it's actually with merit. The only "criticisms" I've seen is that they're proxies for US imperialism, "stealing" oil, allying themselves with Zionism and are now "selling out to ISIS" all of which is bullshit.
Now that that's done- let me introduce you to some theory: Within the Apoist theory of revolution, there are two possible paths; One is the unilateral declaration of democratic autonomy, alongside the strategy of Revolutionary Peoples War. This often requires the organisation to remain more clandestine, hampering the extent of the social work that can be done. This was what was being waged in Rojava prior to this agreement.
The alternative is detente with the state, in the frame of a Democratic Republic, where the right to organise is recognised and the revolutionary movement contends with influence against the state by building its own self-governing capacity.
This is what Rojava is currently doing. I.e they'll lick their wounds with this deal, and owing to the fact that this is the first time in Syria that the Kurds have been recongised as a national minority in Syria- this is a massive step forward.
This line is consistent between the different parties — from the AANES in Syria to KODAR in Iran and the DTK/KCD in Turkey.
>>2183922Right now Syria is in the process of becoming a "democratic republic"- which we all know is bogus. Eventually something is going to have to give.
At the moment, the DAANES has a spot at the table, but it remains to be seen wether or not Jolani will actually respect their demands and be pussy-whipped (as he bloody well ought be) or he bides his time and prepares to launch a secondary military incursion on Rojava. My bet is that he'll go for the latter. The YPJ may talk about holding people accountable, and I want to believe them- but talk is cheap unless there's action taken.
At the moment, I'd hardly call this a victory for Rojava, but it's hardly a defeat. Instead, it's just a ceasefire in all but name.
>>2183926 You guys talk as if this has become a modern version of the Northeast Flag Replacement.
你们说得好像事情变成了现代版的东北易帜
>>2183922i don't care about your ecletic theories of revolution, read lenin
btw rojava cooperated with america, sold its oil to america and is being integrated into islamist-zionist syria. IT'S OVER. FOLLOW YOUR LEADER KURDOPHILE
>>2183999NT other Anon but you also seem severely mentally ill.
Phone your doctor.
>>2184059The politics of the aesthetic leftist again shown to be rooted in nothing but petty resentment.
How does this keep happening?
>>2184074NTA but I've been reading this book on the broader subject I'd recommend:
The Kurdish Women's Movement - History, Theory and Practice. attached
>>2184077>Hassle Moffin' next he's even worse.NO I will always have Moffin' filtered by name. >>2183922So you just ignored me when I said "democratic confederalism" was less radical than NEP? And looked the other way, when Arab areas willingly and eagerly rose up against them when HTS got close?
>RaqqaImagine giving Black Hundreds "democratic autonomy" and "right to organize".
reposting from another thread
>>2184030
I don't care what the Kurds want.
>>There is no country in Europe which does not have in some corner or other one or several ruined fragments of peoples, the remnant of a former population that was suppressed and held in bondage by the nation which later became the main vehicle of historical development. These relics of a nation mercilessly trampled under foot in the course of history, as Hegel says, these residual fragments of peoples always become fanatical standard-bearers of counter-revolution and remain so until their complete extirpation or loss of their national character, just as their whole existence in general is itself a protest against a great historical revolution.
Although times have changed, the same dynamic is still at play. Just as feudal empires relied on the support of small nations against nationalist republicans, similarly one of neo-colonialism's most favored tactic is breaking up nationates aspiring towards genuine, economic independence through ethnic or religious civil wars. Until Kurds get their own state, Kurdish militias will play a reactionary role weaking the ability of Levantine states to escape colonial underdevelopment.
I don't care about the circumstances. At first the US was deadly afraid of a Kurdish insurgency (circa 2009) in the Middle East because they didn't want communists in power anywhere. The only possible reason why they chose to ally with the Kurds is because it was strategically beneficial for the US despite their ideological differences. It's also why they designated ISIS as evil, but whitewashed every other sectarian Islamist rebel. In the end, the US won. It destroyed not one, but two socialist governments in Syria, further strengthened the positions of Israel in the Middle East and prevented a Kurdish insurgency managing to build an actual Kurdish state that has a socialist government. Anyone who cooked this up at Langley/Tel-Aviv deserves a raise.
>>2184286You mean developed minds.
Kids don't obsess over geopolitics like that
>>2184394>Israeli military basesWhy do you say this stuff when you know it only makes you look like an utter laughing stock when you are unable to provide a single source or piece of proof?
>>2184421They're angry with whatever 'the kurds' as they see them do. There is no logic here.
It's honestly embarrassing you still don't get this.
>>2184440I do get it, I'm just trying to get them to twist themselves into knots to justify a clearly irrational hatred.
>>2184439That's very possible, which is one of the reasons I don't have a strong reaction to this agreement one way or the other. It's all still preliminary and its not clear where its going. There were promising agreements like this with the Ba'athists too back in like 2018-2020 that stalled.
>>2184464You must understand that he will continue up until the moment you top responding or the bump-limit is reached.
The idea is only to shit up and be sure no other conversation can be had. By 'showing him up' or whatever you're not achieving anything but aiding him.
>>2184476>socialist" ethnonationalist groupNot enthonationalists. Rojava is a multiethnic polity that renounced separatism and made repeated efforts to reach a compromise with the Ba'athists that would prever Syria as a unified state.
>Immediately concedes to the islamist extremists after they topple the governmentTheir position towards the government in Damascus remained the same both before and after the change of leadership. The new government was simply willing to concede to them on issues of autonomy while the previous one was not.
>>2184481Oh, Rojava is now a multiethnic group. Beyond parody.
You sound like those eastern europeans defending how their "resistance" had to ally with the nazis pragmatically to fulfill their nationalistic dreams.
>>2184490Yes, ethnic pluralism is written into their constitution in the very first line, which wasn't true of the Ba'athist constitution which was explicitly ethnonationalist and focused exclusively on Arabs. Rojava also had specific councils for the self-administrations of the main ethnic groups not unlike the Soviet SSR system.
>You sound like those eastern europeans defending how their "resistance" had to ally with the nazis pragmaticallyActually it's more like Molotov-Ribbentrop, an agreement that only happened after multiple overtures from the Soviets were rejected by the Western Allies. The Ba'athist likewise refused multiple attempts to reintegrate the AANES back into Syria.
>>2184502So true, can we read the US constitution next? Since paper dictates reality. I've never seen anyone deny Rojava was a kurdish movement outside this specific thread. Conveniently after this shitstorm.
I reject that it's more like Molotov-Ribbentrop because of the obvious insurrectionary nature of Rojava. Even so, obviously it didn't work out well for the soviet union, they got invaded anyways and millions died. Maybe there is some merit to sticking to socialist principles instead of making deals with whatever reactionary you find along the way.
>>2184513>I've never seen anyone deny Rojava was a kurdish movement outside this specific thread. The AANES themselves deny it and are very vocal about it.
>because of the obvious insurrectionary nature of RojavaRojava wasn't born out of insurrection, but the population of the northeast taking their self defense into their own hands after the government left them at the mercy of terrorists.
>>2184519I can find you israelis being very vocal about how many arabs live in Israel and how multiethnic it is. Now my intention here isn't to say that those two are equal. The point is it's a movement composed of kurdish people for kurdish autonomy. If you can't even concede it's a kurdish nationalist movement, all this talk seems pointless.
Also an insurrection isn't necessarily a bad thing. Every revolution is one. It's just them going against the central government. You just keep playing these semantic games to avoid facts.
>>2184529>I can find you israelis being very vocal about how many arabs live in Israel and how multiethnic it is.Yes but Israel is also a de jure ethnostate according to its constitution, with explicit, legal discrimination against non-Jews. Rojava may suffer from Kurdish chauvinism but that doesn't make it a nationalist project.
>The point is it's a movement composed of kurdish people for kurdish autonomyIt was composed primarily of Kurdish people because democratic confederalism was first synthesized by the PKK, but that doesn't make it a Kurdish movement as such anymore than communism was Russian movement.
>>2184542Being a nationalistic group isn't inherently bad. Just like being insurrectionist isn't. You keep projecting your moral judgements into what I'm saying.
I don't think Rojava is the great shaitan, but your refusal to admit basic characteristics of the movement is laughable.
They spent years fighting the central govenrment, how are they not insurrectionary? They are group of kurds fighting for kurdish rights. How is that not nationalistic? If they are a socialist organization, how does capitulating to islamists help construct socialism?
>>2184561>They spent years fighting the central govenrmentThey literally didn't. Almost all their military actions during the civil war were against ISIS. They only ever got into sporadic minor skirmishes with the Ba'athists before settling into a truce that lasted until the HTS offensive last year.
>They are group of kurds fighting for kurdish rights. How is that not nationalistic? By that logic Martin Luther King was a Black nationalist. Wanting equal rights and autonomy within a unified state isn't nationalism.
>>2184599You commented like 50 times in this thread about how antagonistic the Assad government was to them. You literally admit they fought the central government, what do you think an armed militia who fights the government is? Them having less opportunities to clash against the Assad gov doesn't make them less insurrectionary, which is what I claimed. If their antagonism towards ISIS was ideological in nature they wouldn't ally with the HTS.
The civil rights movement had plenty of black nationalists. MLK never raised an armed militia and declared an autonomous zone, which is why he isn't called a nationalist. I guess you'd also claim it was a multiethnic movement and not a black movement.
I honestly feel like this is some contrarian bait. I reiterate, I've never seen anyone argue that Rojava isn't a rebel kurdish movement before they decided to throw their lot with al-qaeda 2.0. Now here you are grasping at semantics at how an armed revolt from an ethnic minority that's been ongoing for years isn't "nationalist" or "insurrectionary".
>>2184784>You commented like 50 times in this thread about how antagonistic the Assad government was to themNo, I said that the Ba'athists never agreed to their offers of formal reintegration. Despite this though there was still some cooperation and virtually no armed hostilities between the two.
>You literally admit they fought the central governmentI didn't admit that. I said there were sporadic skirmishes but for the most part they left each other alone. In reality both factions had bigger fish to fry, and by the time they emerged victorious in their respective regions they had established a truce.
>If their antagonism towards ISIS was ideological in nature they wouldn't ally with the HTS.Their antagonism with ISIS was ideological, but more than that it was about survival. Daesh tried to eradicate them and they resisted. HTS may be headchoppers but they've displayed a willingness to tolerate their existence. The SDF says openly that they will work with whoever is willing to work with them and help preserve the gains of their movement, and right now that appears to be HTS. Bizarre maybe but politics makes strange bedfellows.
>The civil rights movement had plenty of black nationalists. Yes, but it's aims weren't nationalist in nature. It wasnt seeking to create a separate Black state, and neither is the AANES. Rojava is not a secessionist entity, they aimed to advance minority rights and democratic confederalism within a unified Syria. I would say that in the context of a multiethnic state a minority nationalist movement would by definition have to be secessionist.
>I guess you'd also claim it was a multiethnic movement and not a black movement.It was, many white people supported and participated in it even if it was predominantly Black.
>I reiterate, I've never seen anyone argue that Rojava isn't a rebel kurdish movement before they decided to throw their lot with al-qaeda 2.0Then you clearly haven't been following the discourse around this issue. The question of whether or not Rojava was an ethnonationalist project has been hotly debated on here since the 8chan days.
>>2184698>an ethnostate consisting of a multitude of ethnicities from Arabs, Yazidis, Armenians and Kurds which have control of their own communes, institutions and have multiculturalism as not only a political tenent but is institutionally recognised.But I thought you "organised" with the Kurds anon…
it's you like you don't even bother reading.
>>2183999>i don't care about theory That's clear enough in the from the fact that you reject evidence.
>they sold its oil to america. They couldn't have done that if they tried- considering America still has an embargo on Syria. The only people they could sell the oil to was Assad.
I don't know how many times I have to say this and how many articles I have to link, but I'll do so anyway.
You're more than free to
not read them. :^)
But you can find it in the Arab Region dossier that I linked and the links here.
https://rojavainformationcenter.org/2020/07/the-national-interest-can-the-u-s-stop-syrias-kurds-from-selling-oil-to-assad/ https://rojavainformationcenter.org/2020/08/did-mike-pompeo-mislead-congress-about-syrias-oil/ >>2184877The civil rights movement consisted of black people, white people, latin americans and asian americans. This isn't a fantasy, it is a fact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Coalition_(Fred_Hampton)>>2184883>this multi-cultural government consisting of multi-ethnic communes with Arabs, Kurds, Armenians and other ethnic groups who have equal political and social rights is an ethno state. Fuckwit.
>>2184885Zionism also consists of black people, white people, latin americans and asian americans. How could it be ethnonationalism when you have such diverse support? The palestinian movement is equally multiethnic since it gets support from accross the globe. Everything is multiethnic :)
Blackness was at the center of the civil rights movement just as kurdish liberation has always been at the center of Rojava. I don't know why you need to twist yourselves into knots over this.
>>2184909>Zionism also consists of black people, white people, latin americans and asian americans. How could it be ethnonationalism when you have such diverse support?Except it's focused on the deliberate dispossession of Palestinians and colonisation. To compare Zionism to the civil rights, a movement founded on liberation is not only dishonest, it's downright pathetic. Yes, black liberation was also a part of it, but it also lent itself to the decolonial movements of the 60's and also championed Latin American Rights and, ironically enough the rights of Palestinians.
You would know this if you bothered to pick up a history book or even do basic research at that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Lordshttps://www.middleeasteye.net/news/when-malcolm-x-visited-gaza-september-1964https://picturingblackhistory.org/the-panthers-and-palestine/
>Kurdish liberation has always been at the centre of Rojava as has the liberation of Yazidis, Armenians and other
The DAANES, similarly, has advocated for and even been vocal for their support of not only the Alawites, but also for Armenians and Yazidis- who are both persecuted by the Turkish state. To reduce the movement down to "Kurdish nationalism" or "Kurdish rights" is incredibly narrow-minded.
>>2184911Assad ain't coming back, bro
>>2184936>the Kurds aren't indigenous to NE syriaand racism to boot.
<but muh oil and wheatagain, not Rojava's fault that Assad left the population for dead.
İmralı Delegation requests an appointment with Erdoğan
The İmralı Delegation of the Peoples' Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party), which has been meeting with political parties following the historic call made by Abdullah Öcalan on February 27, has also requested a meeting with Erdoğan.
In a statement to reporters earlier today, Erdoğan said, “If an appointment is requested, I will give it.”
<Background
A seven-member delegation held a meeting with the Kurdish People’s Leader, Abdullah Öcalan, in İmralı F Type High Security Closed Prison on 27 February. The delegation consisted of Sırrı Süreyya Önder, Pervin Buldan, DEM Party co-chairs Tülay Hatimoğulları and Tuncer Bakırhan, Ahmet Türk, DEM Party Istanbul MP Cengiz Çiçek and lawyer Faik Özgür Erol from Asrin Law Office. Öcalan's fellow prisoners in İmralı, Ömer Hayri Konar, Hamili Yıldırım and Veysi Aktaş, also attended the meeting.
The İmralı Delegation then conveyed the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ made by Abdullah Öcalan. The Kurdish leader highlighted the inevitable need for a democratic society and political space and called on all groups to lay their arms and the PKK to dissolve itself.
Responding to Öcalan’s call on 1 March, the Executive Committee of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) said: “We agree with the content of the call as it is and state that we will fully comply with and implement the requirements of the call on our part. However, we would like to underline that democratic politics and legal grounds must also be secured for its success.”
In order to pave the way for the implementation of Öcalan’s Call for Peace and Democratic Society, the PKK declared a ceasefire, stating: “None of our forces will take armed action unless attacked. Beyond this, only the practical leadership of Leader Öcalan can make matters such as laying down arms practical.”
The PKK said they were also ready to convene the party congress as Öcalan asked, adding, “In order for this to happen, a suitable security environment must be created, and Leader Öcalan must personally direct and lead it to make it successful. However, only Leader Öcalan can take over the leadership of the era of peace and democratic society.”
Political parties and civil society organizations issue joint declaration for Newroz in Istanbul
Representatives from various political parties and civil society organizations issued a joint declaration ahead of the Newroz celebrations to be held in Istanbul on 23 March.
Participants included representatives from the Peoples’ Democratic Congress (HDK), the Free Women’s Movement (TJA), the Peoples' Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party), the Socialist Solidarity Platform (SODAP), Partizan, the Socialist Re-Establishment Party (SYKP), the Democratic Alevi Association (DAD), the Labor Movement Party (EHP), the Social Freedom Party (TÖP), the Socialist Party of the Oppressed (ESP), KOMÜN, the 78’ers Initiative, İşçi Sözü, Kaldıraç, the Association of Lawyers for Freedom (ÖHD), the Federation of Eastern and Southeastern Associations (DGDF), and the Revolutionary Construction and Road Workers’ Union (DEV YAPI İŞ).
This year’s Istanbul Newroz will be celebrated under the slogan “Newroz for a Democratic Society and Freedom” on 23 March at Yenikapı Square. At a press conference ahead of the event, the representatives of the different organizations shared the following statements:
>TJA: "Let’s build a broad women’s alliance
TJA activist Aygül Sincar said: "Inspired by Abdullah Öcalan’s letter to women and the strength of our organized women’s struggle, we will take to the streets on Newroz. Newroz represents resistance, rebirth, and the hope for peace. We call on all women to join us in forming a broad women’s alliance on Newroz. With Newroz, we want to pave the way for freedom, equality, and democratic politics. Defending peace against war in the spirit of Newroz is a duty for all of us."
<EMEP: Let this be the Newroz of coexistence
Seyit Aslan, chair of the Labor Party (EMEP), said: "If we can talk about peace today, it is thanks to the struggle waged by the Kurdish people and socialists in Turkey. We need a country where people are not imprisoned by the tens of thousands and where tears are no longer shed. I hope the 2025 Newroz will be one where Kurdish and Turkish peoples can continue living together in peace."
>DEM Party: Let’s unite around the Newroz fire
Arife Çınar, Istanbul co-chair of the DEM Party, called on all segments of society to "unite around the Newroz fire."
<TÖP: "The Kurdish struggle is shaking the status quo"
Juliana Gözen from TÖP stated: "A massacre against Alevis is taking place. However, this period also presents opportunities. The Kurdish struggle is challenging the ruling powers. The 2025 Newroz marks a phase where we embrace new responsibilities. Happy Newroz to all."
>SYKP: "Let’s carry our enthusiasm to Newroz"
Feray Mertoğlu, co-chair of the SYKP, said: "It is our duty to bring our enthusiasm for struggle, resistance, and peace to Newroz. Newroz symbolizes resistance and peace. With Abdullah Öcalan’s call, let Newroz serve as a step toward peace. Women and socialists must fight to make peace a social reality."
<DAD: "Let’s fulfill our responsibility in building peace"
DAD co-chair Kadriye Doğan stated: "A new agreement has been signed in Damascus, which is significant for Alevis. The return of living spaces to their rightful owners is something we will monitor closely along with the peace process. Let’s put in the effort together and fulfill our responsibility in building peace."
>ESP: "We all have a responsibility"
Sezin Uçar, deputy co-chair of ESP, remarked: "The 2025 Newroz is significant for the Kurdish people’s painstaking struggle for freedom, but also for all the peoples of Turkey. We are at a turning point where we must strengthen the struggle for an honorable peace. Those who stand for peace and freedom cannot remain indifferent. This call places a responsibility on all of us. I invite everyone to the Newroz celebrations."
<PARTIZAN: "Legal steps must be taken"
Toğay Okay from Partizan stated: "Newroz is precisely the day to stand against tyrants like Dehak. If the government truly seeks a solution, it must take democratic legal steps. If the government intends to make democratic moves, it should do so now. We invite everyone to Newroz."
>KOMÜN: "The working class and the Kurdish struggle must unite"
Selahattin Set from KOMÜN commented: "As we approach the 2025 Newroz, Abdullah Öcalan’s declaration has been released. This process is unfolding thanks to the Kurdish people’s struggle. Meanwhile, worker strikes are being banned, and mass arrests are taking place. On the one hand, the government claims to seek a solution; on the other, fascism is being institutionalized. To put an end to this fascism, we must unite the struggles of the working class and the Kurdish people. Without this unity, we cannot achieve peace, freedom, or justice. We invite all peoples, the poor, workers, and both Kurdish and Turkish communities to the 2025 Newroz."
<SODAP: "Everyone must support the process"
Orhan Kok from SODAP said: "Peace means ensuring the rights of workers and laborers. The establishment of an honorable peace cannot be left solely on the shoulders of the Kurdish people. This is a responsibility of all socialist movements. Everyone must support this process."
>DEV YAPI İŞ: "Workers must take action"
Nihat Demir, General Secretary of DEV YAPI İŞ, emphasized that peace is vital for all societies and called on all workers and laborers to take action in support of the process.
<EHP: "We must fan the flames of struggle"
Hakan Öztürk, chair of EHP, stated: "Turkey faces many issues, but the most critical one is the Kurdish issue. Abdullah Öcalan has made a very important call regarding this. If we follow this call, we can move towards peace, democracy, and freedom. Just as the blacksmith Kawa stoked the fire to forge iron, we must fan the flames of the struggle to bring peace and democracy."
>>2184941That was already happening, they were getting slaughtered and so they had to come to the table with HTS. There were videos of their fighters getting tortured and raped circulating weeks ago.
It's clear that the debate perverts here are satisfied with this situation though.
>>2186002I’ve told you multiple times it’s Detente with the state and a means to buy there time. I’ve also stated as you should know if you bothered to read any of the sources linked-that this agreement also serves as a ceasefire. It’s not my fault- by your own admission no less- that you care little for the theory or the strategy or bother to read into it.
(Forgot flag btw)
>>2185926>achieving constitutional recognition and maintaining their autonomyOf course, they're maintaining their autonomy by fully integrating with the new government (bands of rapist warlords in league with Israel) on every level possible. I read the same stuff you did. If you're expecting me to celebrate SDF surrendering to ISIS then you're in too deep.
You clearly care nothing for the blood of the people you cape for online. Childish chan speak you picked up to imitiate right wingers because you think it makes you sound cool doesn't exactly help your case there.
>>2186214>fully intergrating into the government>while maintaining the DAANES>while being recognised by the constitution >while they have also stated that they will hold said islamists accountable. https://x.com/RojavaNetwork/status/1899942189829865907"SOHR: Military forces flying the SDF flag and including foreign fighters of Chechen, Turkestani, and Uzbek nationalities have been deployed in the villages of Fahil, Al-Qabou, and Al-Sharqaliyah in the Homs countryside, which are predominantly Alawite
Local pages have also promoted the presence of the SDF in the region and on the Syrian coast, and the roaming of vehicles flying the SDF flag, raising citizens' fears of massacres against the people of these villages
Sources from the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights confirmed that the SDF has not left its areas, and that this news is completely false and intended to create unrest in Alawite areas, particularly on the Syrian coast and in the villages of the Homs and Hama countrysides."
https://x.com/RojavaNetwork/status/1899906415193432134PYD Leader, Saleh Muslim: It is not unlikely that we will send our forces to the coast. We say this is a duty and a priority needed by a component of the Syrian people. It is a call to arms for the Syrian Democratic Forces. We hope to move towards serious steps because the massacres are still taking place behind the cameras.
>the SDF is going to do nothing about this.
>Childish chan speak you picked up to imitiate right wingers because you think it makes you sound cool doesn't exactly help your case there.>wheredyouthinkweare.jpeg >>2186222assad did win doe, he's a doctor in russia
regular syrians and glowjavistanians on the other hand, well…..
>>2186221>look Ma, I'm projecting! >>2186224"You don't have site culture"
I've been on /leftypol/ for years, lad. Not my fault you're a tourist.
>>2186223>achieved constitutional recognition>maintained their territory>has successfully established detente with the state>Turkey is in a meltdown<this is a failure. >>2186225>S-stop posting itno, lol.
>>2186226I mean by all means keep posting the screenshot like it's an own. You don't understand the difference between the reaction to the fog of war + subsequent reveal by Iran of how Assad had been more of a retarded fence sitter than anyone had even considered, & your stubborn insistence that this capitulation is a victory because "Ocalan thought says this is actually awesome". Once Assad memers got the memo the reaction was pretty instantaneous. This is something different. You're having a prolonged meltdown and trying to make things personal with other people. Do you think you can reframe this for anyone other than yourself? Not to do an epic reveal or anything but this is RSS feed guy again, I know it's you because you always post the same way, and I literally get notifications for these SDF posts you think are breaking my brain right now. I already saw all of this, along with the fighting that led up to this. We could be having a conversation about what this will actually mean for the region but you're stuck on "this is epic and will own Turkey". Not super scintillating shit to me but maybe you've got shooters out there waiting to receive you with adulation bro. They fought for their right to have ISIS escort convoys of oil out of their territory.
They fought for that. Even if we actually ran with your perception of what happened, they are doing great because they fought for the same situation they have under Assad. But it's his fault for not giving them whatever they wanted? Make it make sense.
>>2186226>constitutional recognition>muh detentewholesome headchopper collaboration
the only reason this is allowed to exist is because america is sucking off wheat and oil from the region and they'd rather keep it than give it to turkey btw
>>2186240>I mean by all means keep posting the screenshot like it's an own. It is.
>You don't understand the difference between the reaction to the fog of war + subsequent reveal by Iran of how Assad had been more of a retarded fence sitter than anyone had even considered, & your stubborn insistence that this capitulation is a victory because "Ocalan thought says this is actually awesome".Actually, it's a strategy in achieving revolution- there are two phases to a revolution in establishing democratic confederalism- one is the usual: the protracted people's war, which up until now the DAANES had been doing, the other is detente with the state- which is what they're currently doing now. This is a tactic that has even been proposed in places such as Iran- a country mind you which doesn't exactly have the best reconrd with ethnic minorities or women either.
>You're having a prolonged meltdown and trying to make things personal with other people. <I'm not mad ur mad. Heard this shit before, not my fault half of the people here rely on either fedjacketting, buzzwords, or outright disinformation despite the fact that the evidence proves their so-called arguments false. But yes, clearly I'm angry. Grrr!
>Not to do an epic reveal or anything but this is RSS feed guy again, I know it's you because you always post the same way, and I literally get notifications for these SDF posts you think are breaking my brain right now. I already saw all of this, along with the fighting that led up to this. Sounds to me like you're the the one with brain worms. I don't know what RSS is, lol. Do you mean the Rojava News Network?
>Even if we actually ran with your perception of what happened, they are doing great because they fought for the same situation they have under Assad. But it's his fault for not giving them whatever they wanted? Make it make sense.I've already stated at multiple times that this ceasefire is a means to build detente with the state- it's far from the end goal. As i said earlier, we all know Syria becoming a "democratic republic" is bullshit- eventually something is going to have to give.
Currently, the DAANES has made significant gains politically, now the question will be
1. Will they hold the people who have perpetuated the massacres against the Alawites responsible?
This remains to be seen- though there is certainly talk.
2. What will Rojava do while it's licking its wounds?
>>2186241Wheat and oil that doesn't even go to America? America, which is is currently blockading syria which makes export of oil or wheat to them an impossibility? America, which doesn't even control said oil?
>>2186244Is it possible for this board not to have "rape jokes" for one day? Seriously.
>>2186274Are the an-coms in the room with us now, anon?
>>2186270They got the money by selling it to Assad, disphit. You don't know how embargoes work, lol.
Armenian Union Party member Yûsif Derwêş: SDF defends the freedom of peoples
Armenian Union Party member Yûsif Derwêş spoke to ANF about the agreement between the Damascus Administration and the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) and the massacres against Alawites in Syria.
Pointing to attempts to rebuild Syria with international balances, Yûsif Derwêş said, “Everyone knows those who came to power. They have a history of terror. Their goal with coming to power was not to embrace all peoples, yet they talk about change. In a short period of time, they got involved with international powers. Political balances change every day and they determine their positions accordingly.”
<SDF brings together different components
Yûsif Derwêş pointed out that there is a big difference between the interim administration of Damascus and the SDF, saying: “The SDF is a military force that brings together different components. They have common goals, thoughts and objectives. It has a common mindset where different peoples come together. It defends the freedom of peoples and acts in their interests. All components, from Armenians to Syriacs, find a represenration in the SDF, but those who rule Damascus are fragmented and do not seem to act in line with a common goal and objective. HTS does not have the power to control all groups.”
<The perpetrators of the massacres against Alawites must be put on trial
Yûsif Derwêş condemned the massacre of Alawites in coastal cities and said, “Those who govern Damascus should have prevented the massacre of Alawites. While there should have been an intervention against these attacks, the aggression reached the level of massacre. Alawites were slaughtered without even discriminating the children or the elderly. If we are determined that the future of Syria will be bright, this massacre should not have happened. The perpetrators of these massacres must be put on trial in Syrian and international courts.”
<They realized that they cannot govern Syria with a monist mentality
Yûsif Derwêş criticized the lack of representation of Syrian peoples in the 'Syrian Dialogue Conference' and continued: “The conference was based on one color and one mentality did not gain acceptance. We do not think that a monist mentality can solve the Syrian crisis. With the agreement between the SDF and Damascus, they realized that they cannot govern Syria with a monist mentality. The important thing is to guarantee the future of Syria.”
<The future of Syria is the Democratic Autonomous Administration model
Yûsif Derwêş stated that an agreement was reached with the Damascus administration thanks to the resistance of the SDF and the achievements of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria: “There is autonomy in North and East Syria and it is powerful like the SDF. It has the power to be self-sufficient even without such an agreement. It is organized from education to the economy, diplomacy, politics and military dimension. Still, it is in favor of unity. With this agreement, it can be said that the future of Syria has been clarified to some extent. In Syria, peoples other than the Arabs used to be ignored. Most Kurds were not considered citizens, while Armenians were considered to belong to Armenia. The agreement states that the rights of the peoples will be respected regardless of religious and ethnic discrimination. This is the result of the Autonomous Administration's program, its struggle and what it has created. The future of Syria is the Democratic Autonomous Administration model of North and East Syria.”
<Call for democratic politics
Yûsif Derwêş emphasized the importance of silencing the guns and building democratic politics in Syria, adding: “We must build a country where the existence of peoples is recognized and where they can live their language and culture. Peoples must gain their natural rights. They should benefit from the experience of the Democratic Autonomous Administration model in North and East Syria.”
>>2190737> AKINCI-type For reference:
The aircraft has a 5.5+ ton maximum takeoff weight of which over 1,350kg is payload. Akıncı is equipped with two turboprop engines of either 450hp or 750hp as well as electronic support and ECM systems, dual satellite communication systems, air-to-air radar, collision avoidance radar, and advanced synthetic-aperture radar.
As to the price it's reported that Kuwait spent USD$370 million for 18 of them and Moroco $70 million for 13.
>>2169275>Ukraine is a "zionist project"Lenin weeps
>Kurdistan is a "zionist project"Stalin weeps
>Serbia is a "zionist project"I don't think anyone weeps about this but it's still retarded.
Gümüş: The Kurdish people decide their own struggle
The debate continues in Turkey following Abdullah Öcalan’s call on 27 February.
The chairperson of the Socialist Workers' Party (SEP), Güneş Gümüş, spoke to ANF about the call and the discussions that followed. Gümüş said that the Kurdish people have endured immense suffering and paid a heavy price in their struggle to achieve their national and democratic rights and continue to do so. She emphasized that they long not only for peace and stability but also for democratization and equality.
Acknowledging that Öcalan’s call has ushered in a new phase and that it is understandable for the Kurdish people to feel hopeful, Gümüş also stressed the need to be realistic about expectations regarding the government. She pointed out that the ruling power has lost even its tolerance for electoral democracy, stating: “Throughout this process, the government has provided no material foundation for the advancement of democratic politics, nor has it offered any legal guarantees regarding any potential agreement that may be reached.”
<The influence of fascist propaganda
Gümüş pointed out the significant influence of fascist propaganda, particularly on the working-class, and stated: “The primary factor that can break this influence is the intensification of class struggle, which will foster class consciousness. Apart from that, it is extremely difficult to overcome the effects of propaganda which has persisted for many years, fueling blood feuds and sowing the seeds of ethnic hostility.”
<Socialists have a historical mission
Gümüş said that socialists cannot turn a blind eye to the demands of the Kurdish people and that it is up to the Kurdish people to decide their own methods of struggle. She continued: “Socialists have a historical mission to tell the people the truth. Neglecting this duty would mean denying our own existence. At this point, critical thresholds in authoritarianism are already being crossed. Not only the right to strike, protest, and demonstrate, but also fundamental rights such as voting, being elected, and expressing criticism are under threat. For the government, even elections and the opposition model represented by the Republican People’s Party (CHP) have become increasingly unacceptable.
It is clear that the Justice and Development Party (AKP) and the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) bloc are using the judiciary to seize municipalities, isolate the CHP, and do whatever it takes to remain in power. If the government determines that it will not gain any political advantage from this process, it will not hesitate to put an end to it.”
Bozarslan: The agreement between SDF and Damascus interim government is an historic development<We have discussed the PKK’s fifty-year struggle and the historical background leading up to it. Today, we are witnessing a historic call from Abdullah Öcalan. In a previous interview, you mentioned that the existence and legitimacy of the Kurdish issue were still not acknowledged. At this point, has the existence of the Kurdish issue been officially recognized?
No, it has definitely not been officially recognized. However, there has been a slight change compared to five or six months ago. In this change, we see that the regime has been forced to re-legitimize Öcalan. Everyone has now realized the strong link between Öcalan and the Kurdish issue. The expectation from Öcalan was that, in his first statements, he would say, ‘I founded this terrorist organization, and I am dissolving it,’ without mentioning the Kurdish issue at all. However, when we look at Öcalan’s statements, we see quite the opposite—he speaks of a century-long Kurdish issue and frames the PKK’s guerrilla war not as a matter of terrorism but as an issue of violence that must be understood within its historical conditions. Thus, Öcalan’s message is clear: ‘We are not a terrorist organization. The Kurdish issue is not a terrorism problem; it is a national issue.’
Reading between the lines of this call, this is the reality that emerges. Therefore, it is difficult to predict how much longer the Kurdish issue can continue to be denied.
However, when we look at Erdoğan’s and the Minister of National Defense’s statements, it is clear that the state still perceives the Kurdish issue as either a terrorism or an imperialism-related matter. Yet, we are starting to hear some exceptions and dissenting voices. For instance, Numan Kurtulmuş is one of the figures who, in some way, acknowledges the existence of the Kurdish issue. Bülent Arınç, in his speech in Erbil, almost had to admit that the Kurdish issue is a national issue. Compared to six months ago, there are now more dissenting voices within the ruling bloc. Even in Devlet Bahçeli’s rhetoric, some shifts can be observed.
The fact that Öcalan is no longer being referred to solely as a ‘terrorist leader’ but also as the founding leader of the PKK indicates this shift. So, there are some advancements, but there is still no institutional state policy that recognizes the Kurdish issue as a legitimate reality.
I describe these developments as ‘small’ because they have not yet transformed into long-term, institutionalized changes. There are many small developments, such as the Republican People's Party (CHP) leader Özgür Özel’s remarks while receiving a delegation from the
Peoples' Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party). Will these small developments gradually lead to a new institutional approach, a shift in the state’s discourse, and the recognition of the Kurdish issue both in Turkey and the Middle East? I remain quite hesitant. However, despite everything, it is clear that the process should not be obstructed. Or at the very least, the Kurdish side should not be the ones responsible for blocking it.
<You interpret Abdullah Öcalan’s statements more in terms of what they do not say or do not include. You highlighted critical aspects regarding the PKK’s emergence. Now, when we look at Öcalan’s call, we see a declaration that is firmly grounded in historical context. At this stage, how should Öcalan’s call for change and transformation within the PKK be understood?
At this point, it is difficult to know what is happening behind the scenes. However, when we examine the PKK’s evolution over the past twenty years, we see that the organization has repeatedly stated on various occasions that the era of armed struggle is coming to an end and that a new historical phase must begin. In other words, we are not facing an entirely new phenomenon, but rather new conditions. The peace process between 2013 and 2015 ultimately collapsed due to several factors, including Erdoğan and the ruling bloc’s refusal to accept it, the rejection of the process by radical nationalism in Turkey, and developments in Syria. Therefore, while it is possible to discuss the opening of a new phase today, this possibility is still filled with uncertainties.
For this process to evolve into a permanent transformation, certain aspects must be extended over the long term, institutionalized, and legitimized. Even now, we cannot be certain that those engaging in talks with Öcalan will not face arrest tomorrow. In other words, the situation remains entirely ambiguous. Many things are possible, but nothing is certain.
From my perspective, for the past decade, the heart of Kurdistan has been beating in Rojava. Today, the most critical issue is the protection of Rojava and the securing of its status. When we analyze Öcalan’s statements, we do not see any indication that Syrian Kurds should dissolve themselves and become ordinary Syrian citizens or that Syria should revert to being the 'Syrian Arab Republic.' On the contrary, Öcalan’s call appears to be directed explicitly at the PKK and its affiliated armed units. At this moment, the most crucial issue seems to be persuading Turkey to recognize the legitimacy of Rojava and establishing a roadmap for this.
<Following Mr. Öcalan’s call, the PKK released a statement indicating that disarmament could be discussed. What would laying down arms mean for the PKK? Does this signify the end of the organization?
No, it definitely does not mean that the PKK’s struggle has come to an end. The PKK, in one way or another, continues and will continue to exist and struggle. Today, the PKK’s armed activities are largely limited to responding to Turkish military attacks. However, when we take a broader perspective, we see a highly dynamic Kurdish society, particularly in Turkish Kurdistan and the diaspora.
Within these societal dynamics, 99% of activities are already conducted in non-military spheres. These are not underground or secret activities; on the contrary, they take place openly, in the public eye. Today, a Kurdish politician who decides to run for mayor is fully aware that they risk arrest at any moment. A Kurdish journalist who openly expresses their identity faces the same threat. Even an academic writing a Kurdish-language textbook for children risks pressure and imprisonment.
Despite all this, the Kurdish movement is no longer an underground movement. On the contrary, the biggest driving force behind Kurdish politics and struggle now unfolds in the open, in front of society. Kurdish society has reached this point. It is no longer possible to say that clandestine activities constitute a determining factor in the Kurdish movement. The social dynamic, in every way, is now a visible and public dynamic.
<With the fall of the Assad regime, the balance of power in the country continues to shift rapidly. In this process, General Commander of SDF, Mazloum Abdi and the leader of HTS, the jihadist group in power in Syria, Ahmed Al-Sharaa (Al-Jolani), signed an eight-point agreement that serves as a roadmap. How do you interpret this agreement, and what does it mean?
This is a very recent and historic development, making it difficult to draw definitive conclusions at this stage. However, it is important to recall the key points emphasized by Mazloum Abdi in the context of this agreement. The most striking aspect is the apparent acceptance of the principle of decentralization. It is widely understood that the current Autonomous Administration will undergo changes, but the crucial question is: What will be the scope of these changes? Will there be an Autonomous Administration limited to Kurdish regions, or will a broader autonomous governance structure be established that extends beyond Kurdish territories? What will the institutional framework of this new administration look like? These questions remain unanswered for now. However, the main point of contention between the Kurds and HTS, which can be described as a militia regime, has been the issue of decentralization. Based on Mazloum Abdi’s statements, it appears that a common understanding has been reached on this matter.
Another significant provision in the agreement is the issue of "transferring existing institutions to the state." This does not mean the complete dismantling of existing structures. If this transfer takes place within the framework of decentralization, it also implies preserving or formally recognizing a certain level of autonomy. However, as I mentioned earlier, it is still too early to make a definitive assessment of this process. The agreement is relatively short, recognizing the Kurdish issue, the status of Kurds in Syria, and the need for their rights to be constitutionally safeguarded. Beyond that, it is currently difficult to make further interpretations. However, if decentralization has indeed been accepted, it suggests that Kurdish institutions will be maintained in some form, though the exact name and structure of this entity remain uncertain.
At the same time, extreme caution is necessary. We have seen what happened in Latakia as what occurred there was a massacre of immense scale. The mobilization of pro-Bashar al-Assad forces and the killing of a thousand civilians cannot be justified in any way. This atrocity evokes memories of the great massacres in Ottoman and Turkish history, particularly those targeting Alawites. Even more concerning is the fact that HTS refuses to take responsibility for these massacres. This stance suggests either that HTS lacks control over other militia forces or that it is displaying an extreme level of hypocrisy. Moving forward, we do not know whether a strengthened regime will adopt a different strategy toward the Kurds. Therefore, the Kurds must be extremely vigilant. For now, the presence of the United States in the region remains an important guarantee for the Kurds. However, the duration of this presence is uncertain. Still, at least for the time being, the continued presence of the U.S. provides a level of security for the Kurds.
<We have transitioned from an era where Kurdish existence was denied to a period where the constitutional protection of all Kurdish rights is being debated. One of the key provisions of the agreement states: "The Kurdish community is an indigenous part of the Syrian state, and the Syrian state guarantees their citizenship and all constitutional rights." Considering this provision in particular, as well as the overall content of the agreement, can this be regarded as a success for the Kurds?
If these principles are fully implemented, it will be a significant achievement for the Kurds. This provision marks the first time in Syria’s century-long history that Kurds are officially recognized as a fundamental component of the country. This recognition has been a long-standing goal of Kurdish intellectuals and political movements in Syria. From a historical perspective, particularly in the 1920s and later during the radical shifts of the 1950s and 1960s, Kurds found themselves navigating between two radical movements: one aimed at integrating into Syrian society and another focused on being part of Kurdistan. This is a critical distinction, Kurds are being acknowledged as part of Syria, yet they are also being recognized as Kurds. Recognizing Kurds as Kurds inherently acknowledges their connection to Kurdistan as well.
A similar process can be observed in Iraq. During the 2000s, Iraq experienced both a "re-Iraqization" and a "re-Kurdistanization", two interconnected processes. If the Kurds in Syria are constitutionally recognized as part of the country, this would be a historic milestone for them. However, caution is necessary. HTS is currently quite weak, and transforming a militia force into a full-fledged state is an immense challenge. It remains unclear whether HTS truly envisions a secular, democratic, and pluralistic Syria. Furthermore, whether HTS can effectively control other militia groups is highly uncertain. Reports indicate that some of the militias responsible for the massacres of Alawites are the same groups that participated in the ethnic cleansing in Afrin (Efrîn). Some of these militias have received direct support from Turkey or consist of mercenaries funded and armed by the Turkish state.
HTS must dismantle these groups, not just disarm them, but completely eliminate their presence. Whether HTS is capable of doing this remains uncertain. Therefore, the Kurds must focus on advancing the constitutional process and working toward the establishment of a decentralized Syria. However, while doing so, they must also remain acutely aware of the uncertainties of the future and proceed with extreme caution.
>>2192273<Before traveling to Damascus, General Commander of SDF Mazloum Abdi reportedly held a meeting with various ethnic and religious groups within the Autonomous Administration. One of the key provisions of the agreement guarantees the right of all Syrians, regardless of religious or ethnic background, to participate in the political process and state institutions based on authority and responsibility. In essence, this clause mirrors the existing system in Rojava. But is it feasible to implement this provision? Is there an effort to extend the Rojava model to all of Syria?I believe that the future Syria will not be a country shaped solely by constitutional principles. Instead, a multilayered structure may emerge, where different regions implement different social and political formulas. For example, when looking at Christians, they do not have a defined territorial base. There is no concentrated Christian-majority region, yet their rights and representation must be safeguarded. The Druze, on the other hand, hold a distinct position. Despite being entirely Arab in identity, they possess both territorial and religious uniqueness in the border region. As for the Alawites, they do have a specific regional base, but that area is also home to a significant Sunni population.
When it comes to Kurdistan, meaning present-day Rojava, we can speak of a dual structure. First, there is Rojava as a region predominantly inhabited by Kurds. Second, there is a broader Autonomous Region under Kurdish control, extending beyond Kurdistan’s historical boundaries. Initially, the Kurds did not intend to move toward Raqqa, but because it served as the second capital of ISIS, capturing the city became unavoidable. It was a necessity in the fight to eliminate ISIS. The key question for the future is whether the Kurdish movement wants to maintain control over Raqqa. Or, if the Arab population there demands the continuation of the Autonomous Administration, would the Kurds withdraw? At this stage, there are no clear answers to these questions.
For this reason, representation is not an issue that can be resolved with a single formula. Unless it is violently sabotaged, as in Latakia, we are likely to witness a long-term process in which different regions implement different governance models. These models cannot be implemented overnight; we may need to think in terms of the 2030s or even 2035. The greatest advantage for the Kurds is that they have been governing themselves for the past twelve years. Institutionally, they are far ahead of other groups. Municipalities, schools, hospitals, and Kurdish-language education systems are in place. Additionally, there are three universities in Kurdistan. However, despite these advancements, it will take time to determine the final map of Syria’s future.
<Officials from the Autonomous Administration stated that the agreement aligns with the letter sent by Kurdish People's Leader Abdullah Öcalan to Rojava, emphasizing that this development signifies the Kurds becoming a recognized partner in the Syrian state. What are your thoughts on this?Since we do not know the full content of Öcalan’s letter, it is difficult to make a direct assessment. However, based on the information I have gathered, Öcalan reportedly said, “There is no reason for the Kurds to exhaust their forces at the Tishrin Dam. The Kurds need to go to Damascus.” This suggests that he might have emphasized the need to resolve many issues not only through armed struggle but also by directly engaging with Damascus and negotiating. It is possible that he expressed such a perspective, which would indicate that recent developments have unfolded in line with Öcalan’s expectations or recommendations.
The idea of the Kurds ‘becoming a partner in the state’ most likely refers to their constitutional recognition as a fundamental component of Syria. Moreover, this recognition could be at a relatively high level. For instance, it is uncertain whether Mazloum Abdi might hold a significant position as a general in the future Syrian military. If Mazloum Abdi were to secure a position within the Syrian army while maintaining his Kurdish identity and preserving Kurdish military units, this would be a highly significant development.
A comparable situation can be observed in Iraqi Kurdistan. Of course, there have been serious challenges, and unresolved issues remain, particularly the Kirkuk question must not be overlooked. However, at the same time, the Kurds play a decisive role in Iraqi politics. Today, the formation of any government in Iraq is highly dependent on Kurdish support. The Kurds not only have their own parliament but also hold considerable influence within the Iraqi parliament.
<While the Kurdish side remains steadfast in defending Rojava’s status, the Turkish state has pursued a policy aimed at eradicating the Kurdish presence in the region since the beginning of the Syrian war. In recent developments, Rojava’s military structure has repeatedly been used as a pretext by Turkey. However, with this agreement, Turkey’s justifications have essentially been rendered void. Does this signify the collapse of Turkey’s Rojava and Syria policy?Yes, you are absolutely right on this point. Turkey’s hypothesis that 'there is no Kurdish issue in Syria' has completely collapsed. We now have an eight-point agreement signed by Ahmed Al-Sharaa (Al-Jolani). The mere existence of this agreement signifies that the Kurdish reality in Syria has been recognized. Moreover, the agreement was signed by Mazloum Abdi, whom Turkey has long labeled as a 'terrorist leader.' This, in turn, demonstrates that Mazloum Abdi is now recognized as a legitimate political actor in Syria. He is not only acknowledged as a legitimate Kurdish representative but also as a key figure representing the Autonomous Administration. And this recognition is not confined to Kurdistan alone, it extends to Syria as a whole, where he is now seen as a legitimate actor in the broader political landscape.
From this perspective, as you pointed out, Turkey’s reading of the region, its political impositions, and its attempts to legitimize its strategy of violence have all collapsed. However, Turkey is deeply entrenched in rigid ideological positions and radical nationalist sentiments. Predicting how such an ideology will respond to these developments is difficult. If Turkey were to act rationally, it would welcome these developments, acknowledge Rojava’s existence, and even attempt to leverage Rojava’s position to gain influence in Syria. A power seeking to maintain a foothold in Syria putting aside ethical concerns and evaluating the situation purely from a geostrategic standpoint would recognize Rojava’s legitimacy. Any external power that acknowledges Rojava’s legitimacy could gain a much stronger position in Syria. However, the issue here is one of rationality. The real question is whether Turkey’s current leadership is capable of adopting such a rational stance. At this stage, it is difficult to predict.
<It has been reported that the United States and certain international powers played a role in the agreement signed between Mazloum Abdi, and Ahmed Al-Sharaa (Al-Jolani). Does the involvement of these powers indicate that Rojava’s status is beginning to gain international recognition?Yes, at this stage, we can say that such a recognition is emerging, but it has not yet reached an official or legal level. It is known that two days before the agreement was signed, a U.S. representative met with Mazloum Abdi for significant negotiations. These discussions were most likely related to the continuation of U.S. influence in the region and relations with Damascus. Additionally, reports indicate that Mazloum Abdi traveled to Damascus aboard a U.S. helicopter to sign the agreement. All of these developments point to a form of de facto recognition. However, the critical issue is transforming this de facto recognition into a legally binding status, one that engages states and the international community in a legal framework. When recognition remains only de facto, its future remains uncertain. This is why the Kurds must approach this process with extreme caution.
The future remains unpredictable, and it is difficult to determine how things will unfold. This is precisely why the presence of the U.S. in the region holds immense strategic importance. Careful and calculated steps must be taken during this period. On the other hand, much of Turkey’s rhetoric over the past decade has effectively collapsed. If the Damascus administration, which Turkey has supported, is now engaging with Mazloum Abdi, signing an agreement with him, and recognizing him as a legitimate actor in Syria, then Turkey loses its ability to frame this as 'negotiating with terrorists.' The Turkish state can no longer sustain its narrative that any engagement with Mazloum Abdi constitutes legitimizing terrorism.
>>2190751>>2190737People are saying they had access to Iranian 358 loitering munitions to shoot this down.
What else could it have been, anons?
HPG Commander Amed Malazgirt: Only Leader Öcalan can convince us
Kurdish New Year Newroz on 21 March was celebrated with a glorious military ceremony by the guerrillas in the guerrilla-held Medya Defense Zones in southern Kurdistan (northern Iraq).
Speaking at the ceremony, HPG (People’s Defense Forces) Central Headquarters Commander Amed Malazgirt gave a speech on the current political and military situation and the attitude of the guerrillas towards the dialogue process initiated by Öcalan. In a historic “Call for Peace and a Democratic Society” at the end of February, the Kurdish leader called for the dissolution and disarmament of the PKK so as to pave the way for a political solution to the Kurdish question in Turkey and an honorable peace.
The PKK responded to the appeal with a unilateral ceasefire and switched its armed forces to defense mode.
Amed Malazgirt wished a happy Newroz to the Kurdish people, Kurdish leader Abdullah Öcalan, people of Kurdistan and their friends, political prisoners and families of martyrs.
Malazgirt pointed out that Newroz means a new day for some, but it has a different meaning for the Kurdish people: “For the Kurdish people, Newroz is resistance, the breaking of the spirit of slavery, the construction of a free and honorable life.”
<'The PKK is a Newroz party'
Highlighting the importance and meaning of Newroz in the PKK's history, Malazgirt stated: “Comrade Mazlum Doğan celebrated Newroz by lighting three matches in a dungeon of the occupying Turkish state under heavy torture. Thus, he spread the spirit of resistance as a culture in four parts of Kurdistan. Later, Comrade Zekiye, Comrade Rahşan and dozens of others celebrated Newroz by setting their bodies on fire. The PKK built itself on the basis of this spirit and character. With the spirit and resistance of Newroz, the PKK waged a tough struggle. Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] took the decision to found the PKK on a Newroz day. Therefore, the PKK is a Newroz party. Likewise, the struggle that has been waged until today has also been waged with the enthusiastic Newroz spirit.”
Commander Malazgirt pointed out that they have had a new agenda of struggle under the leadership of Öcalan for the last two months and said, “Leader Apo waged a great struggle and resisted the occupying Turkish state in the Imrali prison. The Turkish state was forced to negotiate with Leader Apo in the face of his resistance. The main aim of the Turkish state was to liquidate the PKK and ignore the Kurdish people, but it failed in the face of the resistance of Leader Apo and the PKK, and it could not liquidate the PKK.”
<'The PKK forced the Turkish state into a political solution'
The HPG commander remarked that Öcalan has always been in favor of a political solution to the Kurdish question, but since the denial of the Kurdish people emerged as a systematic concept, he deemed armed struggle necessary. Regarding the search for a solution from the early 90s to the present, Malazgirt said: “The PKK initially emerged as an armed force. A very tough war was waged against the Turkish state's policies of denial and annihilation. The PKK reached the peak of its power in the 1990s. As a result, it forced the Turkish state into a political solution, which was brought to the agenda through some forces. In 1993, Leader Apo took the first steps towards a ceasefire and expressed many of the thoughts he expresses today. Despite Leader Apo taking positive steps, the Turkish state authorities were preparing for war against the PKK. In 1994, there was a very violent conflict between the PKK and the Turkish state, but this was also inconclusive. In 1998, the Turkish state sent a letter to Leader Apo saying that there was too much bloodshed and that the problem should be solved through political means. Once again, Leader Apo took the necessary steps. But in 1999 an international conspiracy took place that resulted in Leader Apo's captivity. Still, Leader Apo took steps for peace so that Kurds and Turks would not be enemies forever. Guerrilla forces withdrew in groups. On the other hand, the Turkish state again resorted to deception and trap methods, and hundreds of our comrades who were in the process of withdrawal were martyred. Nevertheless, the PKK did not disturb the process and did not go to war to ensure the success of Leader Apo's decisions, while the Turkish state responded to Leader Apo with conspiracies every time.”
<‘It is the Turkish state itself that has been weakened’
Amed Malazgirt recalled the talks between Öcalan and the Turkish state for the solution of the Kurdish issue in 2013, when, he said, the Turkish state put a similar concept into action again as it did in 1993. He continued: “Senior commanders of the Turkish army and state officials went to NATO and knocked on the doors of European states. They acquired weapons and technical equipment and prepared for a large-scale war. In 2015, they launched a full-scale aerial attack against our forces. Since then, a very tough war has been taking place between us and the Turkish state. The state believed that it could end the PKK with its war technology, but in the last ten years, when the biggest war has been fought, the PKK could not be destroyed. The Turkish state has not achieved any results for ten years; on the contrary, it is the Turkish state itself that has been weakened. Economically it has declined, militarily it has failed. The PKK paid a price, and the price was heavy, but we succeeded.”
<‘We have not carried out any planned actions since the ceasefire’
Evaluating the developments on the guerrilla front after the call made by Öcalan on 27 February , Amed Malazgirt pointed out that they have not carried out any planned actions against the Turkish state since they declared a ceasefire, while the Turkish state has increased its attacks even more. Malazgirt told the guerrillas that “we must be careful as military forces” and emphasized the following: “Leader Apo responded to [MHP Leader] Devlet Bahçeli's call. We ask Bahçeli; what concrete step have you taken? We are keeping a close watch on the state. It has been more than 15 days and there has been no positive message from the state. Leader Apo fulfilled his historic responsibility and the PKK responded positively. The People's Defense Center (HSM) also followed the PKK's response and decided to stop its actions. Since then, we as military forces have not carried out any planned actions against the Turkish state.
We observe that the Turkish state's intentions are bad. We as military forces have to be careful in this regard because the Turkish state's attacks have increased after the PKK declared a ceasefire. They attack with fighter jets, with artillery and tanks, and reconnaissance aircraft hover over our areas 24 hours a day.
<'We take Leader Öcalan as our basis, we listen to him'
In conclusion, let all our comrades know that we are not interested in what the state says, how the state discusses, what the state says about the PKK. We take Leader Apo as our basis. We listen to him. What is important for us is what we understand from what Leader Apo says, what he means. The main thing for us is Leader Apo. It is Leader Apo who created this movement. Only he can make the decision to dissolve the PKK and lay down arms.
But the Turkish state thinks it is very clever, history shows it! It says, 'PKK should lay down its arms, convene a congress as soon as possible and dissolve itself'. What does it mean? It will follow us from above, and in case of a gathering, it will want to destroy us. Why are we saying this? We come to this conclusion from the attacks of the Turkish state. The attacks on our areas have not stopped. The Turkish state's attitude towards us has never changed. How can there be peace between Kurds and Turks without the Turkish state changing its mentality and manner, without restructuring itself according to the new process? In Kobanê, a patriotic family that had nothing to do with weapons was targeted by the Turkish army and 9 people were martyred. 7 of them were children; the youngest was only 4 months old. The Kurdish people are evaluating all this; asking how they can be brothers and sisters with this mentality, with this state amid these massacres. The Kurdish people are not the Kurds of old; they are political, organized, they see and interpret everything.
<'Unless Leader Öcalan is ready, no one can make such a strategic decision'
In short, we are closely following the Turkish state and its steps. We will never relax and we will wait for Rêber Apo's response. If a strategic decision such as laying down arms is to be taken, no one in the PKK can make that decision except Leader Apo. How do they see the PKK? If the Turkish state is sincere, if it wants peace between the Kurdish and Turkish peoples, if it even wants a reconciliation within the state, it must take sincere steps. Otherwise, unless Leader Apo is ready, no one can make such a strategic decision, either at the congress or elsewhere, to dissolve the PKK or make it lay down its arms!
Favorable conditions for Leader Apo must be created for the PKK to dissolve itself and lay down its arms. Many self-sacrificing militants believed in Rêber Apo and joined the struggle. There are some things they disagree with and are not convinced of. We are not convinced about some things either, and the people have not been convinced yet. It is Leader Apo who will convince them and, in order for this to happen, he must be physically free. The Kurdish people will continue their struggle until Leader Apo is free.”
<Concert by Awaze Çiya
The speech by HPG commander Ame Malazgirt was followed by a concert by the music band Awaze Çiya. The guerrillas danced around the Newroz fire until late at night, celebrating Newroz with great excitement, enthusiasm and morale.
Sharing their views, the freedom guerrillas drew attention to Öcalan’s messages and said, “Leader Apo is still not physically free. Leader Apo's physical freedom is our main goal. Our struggle will grow day by day until Leader Apo is physically free.”
Funny how the 'IT'S SO OVER!!!111' guys have all gone quiet.
Wonder if it coincides with the USAID cuts?
'Without Öcalan, the PKK congress cannot convene, make decisions, dissolve itself, or lay down arms'
In an extensive interview with Medya Haber, Besê Hozat, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the ruling forces in the Turkish state that continue to refuse democratization and a sincere approach to a possible solution to the Kurdish question for fear of losing their own power. Hozat talked about the necessity of the joint and common struggle of all democratic, oppositional forces, as well as further issues such as the current Newroz celebrations and the latest developments in Syria.
We publish the first part of the in-depth interview below:
<In view of the current period, we would first of all like to talk about the current celebrations for this year’s Newroz. How have you experienced this year’s Newroz so far? What can or would you like to tell us about it?
To begin with, I would like to congratulate our people, our international friends, and particularly Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] on the occasion of Newroz. Also, with great respect and gratitude, I commemorate all the martyrs of Newroz by honoring the comrades Mazlum Dogan and Zekiye Alkan.
This year saw one of the most glorious Newroz celebrations of all time. People of all ages and from all ethnicities took to the parks, streets, and squares to celebrate Newroz. The pictures showed a sea of people – millions were celebrating with great enthusiasm both in the four parts of Kurdistan and abroad. We all felt great joy and excitement about this year’s Newroz. And of course, what made this year’s Newroz so enthusiastic, so exciting, and so glorious was Rêber Apo’s ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’. The meetings with Rêber Apo, receiving his greetings, learning his views, and listening to his call for freedom created great joy and excitement. Through the Newroz celebrations, the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ by our leader was embraced and greeted by millions in an impressive way. The people clearly expressed that Rêber Apo represents their political will and chanted that they see Rêber Apo’s freedom as their own freedom. In a sense, the call was like a referendum, a referendum for Rêber Apo’s freedom, and millions answered it; millions demanded the physical freedom of Rêber Apo.
It was the Newroz of Rêber Apo’s physical freedom. It was the Newroz of ‘Peace and Democratic Society’. And it was celebrated by millions enthusiastically, gloriously, and magnificently. In this sense, it was a Newroz in which devotion, love, respect, and trust in Rêber Apo were experienced at a peaking level. Our people and our international friends expressed their great, deep love, respect, and devotion, as well as their great trust and deep confidence in Rêber Apo in an impressive way during this Newroz. This is of great significance.
The peak of this, particularly regarding northern Kurdistan, was the celebrations in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir). Over one million people gathered there to celebrate together. It was literally a sea of people. It was very impressive. And in this celebration, it was the moment when Rêber Apo's ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ was read that summed all that up.
This year’s Newroz was different. It should be the guideline for all Newrozes to come. In all districts, provinces, regions, and cities of Turkey, and generally spoken in all places where Kurds live, Newroz was celebrated in a magnificent and enthusiastic way. This should be sustained. It is very important, and Amed was the peak of this. But not only there; also the celebrations in Wan (tr. Van) were also spectacular, as they were in Elih (tr. Batman) and Sert (tr. Siirt). In fact, all of this year’s celebrations were spectacular in their very own way. All of them were marked by the demand for the immediate physical freedom of Rêber Apo and were marked by the embracement of the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’.
Again, the celebrations this year in eastern Kurdistan were also spectacular. The people are talking about an “extraordinary Newroz”, and it was indeed extraordinary. The people turned all of eastern Kurdistan into an area of celebrating Newroz. It was breathtaking. The physical freedom of Rêber Apo, freedom of the Kurds, freedom of Kurdistan, and freedom of and democracy for Iran were the hallmarks of these Newrozes.
Same accounts for Rojava and North and East Syria. After the celebrations were postponed by a few days due to the massacre committed by the Turkish state in Kobanê, there were also enthusiastic celebrations in every city. Here, too, the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and the call for ‘Peace and Democratic Society’ were the hallmarks. Millions claimed the freedom of Rêber Apo in Rojava, in all parts of Kurdistan, and abroad. This was very important, very meaningful.
This year’s Newroz had decisive political messages – the physical freedom of Rêber Apo, his call, and the call for unity in the sense of the democratic nation. Wherever Newroz was celebrated, these topics were high on the agenda. On this issue, the people put forward their demands and expectations in a strong way. Therefore, one can underline that this year’s Newroz strengthened the unity, consciousness, and spirit of the Kurds in the sense of the democratic nation.
Newroz is an expression of resistance, an expression of rebellion against oppression and for freedom. That is why it is so important in Kurdistan and why it is celebrated here with so much enthusiasm and joy. I would like to take this opportunity once again to congratulate everyone, especially the comrades who are at this very moment resisting on the mountains and in the prisons, on this year’s Newroz.
<Let’s move on to the process initiated by people’s leader Abdullah Ocalan. Since the call he made, a few weeks have passed already, but not much has changed in terms of the Turkish state’s rapprochement or the situation of Ocalan himself. How do you assess this?
Rêber Apo has been uninterruptedly waging the struggle for the democratization of Turkey, for a democratic republic and a democratic Turkey on the basis of the democratic solution of the Kurdish question for 50 years, and for the last 26 years, he has been conducting this fierce struggle under the conditions of isolation and torture in Imrali. With his latest ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’, Rêber Apo took a big step towards the democratization of Turkey and the democratic solution to the Kurdish question. It is a decisive call for Kurdistan, for Kurds, for all the peoples of Turkey, for the oppressed, and particularly for us women. The attitude and effort developed by Rêber Apo are very valuable. But it is the state that is unserious. This government has approached this process unseriously and insincerely. For example, Yilmaz Tunc, the Minister of Justice, has been making statements that are completely incompatible with the spirit and character of these developments. But the problem is not only the statements but also the practice. The government, the state, has not taken any steps.
In the week of the call, the so-called ‘Right to Hope’ was supposed to be put into action immediately. This process was supposed to run in parallel, intertwined. But this was not done. For the ‘Right to Hope’ to come into effect, legislative changes are needed. A commission in the Parliament, legal regulations, and legal amendments are essential and necessary. But this was not done. There has been no change in the conditions of Rêber Apo. The isolation continues in Imrali. The isolation should have been completely lifted in the course of the call. Through the ‘Right to Hope’, Rêber Apo should have regained his physical freedom, and afterwards, he was supposed to be able to communicate directly with his movement and the PKK leadership. It is necessary for them to set the date of the congress together, to set the agenda together. Rêber Apo himself must direct, guide, and participate in the congress of the PKK. Rêber Apo is the founding leader of the PKK; he has to play a crucial role in the dissolution of the PKK, has to be directly involved, and has to directly manage and direct this congress. But all of this has not been ensured. There was no communication with Rêber Apo after the call. Applications by the family and lawyers to meet with Rêber Apo were turned down.
As I pointed out before and want to highlight again, the setting of the agenda of the congress, its convening, and its practical guidance must be carried out by Rêber Apo together with the PKK administration. He has to run it directly. Therefore, Rêber Apo must be able to be in contact with everyone he wants.
There are many journalists, politicians, academics, writers, civil society organizations, lawyers, and so on that want to meet and discuss with Rêber Apo. Everyone who want this should be enabled to go to Rêber Apo and meet with him. Rêber Apo must be able to meet and communicate with anyone he wants. The status of Imrali has to change completely. This system, the Imrali system, the system of torture and isolation, has to be completely abolished and dismantled. Rêber Apo had to regain his physical freedom. This is what we mean by free working and living conditions. It is the physical freedom of the Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo has to be able to have meetings, relations, and communication with all the circles he wants, including and especially with his organization. This has to be ensured. But it is not done. Instead, the isolation continues. Almost four weeks have passed since February 27th, and there is still no change, there is no communication, and there is no information.
The leadership of the PKK issued a statement. Without Rêber Apo, without him being able to directly intervene, the PKK congress cannot convene, make decisions, dissolve itself, or lay down arms. There is nothing debatable about this. Only Rêber Apo can develop this process. The leader of the peace and democratic society process is Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo develops, conducts, manages, and directs the process of democratic transformation and restructuring. No one else can develop that will, that power, that initiative.
Now the Minister of Justice says that there would be no such thing as the ‘Right to Hope’ in the legislation. Is this legislation a verse of the Quran? When one wants to have a serious and sincere process, one needs to be ready to make changes to the legislation. Doing so would be the work of two, maybe three days. We have researched and investigated; those in the know have examined it and informed us. If they wanted to, that legislation could be changed in a couple of days. Those amendments to the law could be made; the ‘Right to Hope’ could be implemented easily. It is not a job that cannot be done. Legislation can change. But they don’t want to.
Why did we insist on Rêber Apo being able to read his call and it being spread as a video message? Because it was a test. It was to test the government, the state, to see how serious it is. If it was serious, it should not have objected or prevented a video message. It’s about developing a historic, sincere process to solve a hundred-year-old problem; if it doesn’t even allow a video message through, where’s the seriousness in that? This shows its lack of seriousness and sincerity. Actually, its mask has fallen. By blocking the video message, its mask fell, and its true face was seen. Now there are people coming up claiming things like that the ‘Right to Hope’ is not in the legislation. Well, change the legislation. If you are serious, you change that legislation. You change the law and implement the ‘Right to Hope’. That is a work of a couple of days only. This process cannot go on without legal and juristic guarantees and assurances. As it is, tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow, they may arrest the entire seven-person delegation that went to Imrali. Including the DEM co-chairs. Regarding this state and this government, there is no guarantee for anything. There are no legal guarantees. Everything is being made almost illegally. There is no guarantee for this process. But this process definitely needs to have a legal and juristic guarantee. Laws need to be passed on this issue. Rêber Apo said at the very beginning of the process that a joint commission in the parliament with the participation of all parties in power, all opposition, and ruling parties should be established. This commission should make legal arrangements. The legal and juristic guarantee of this process should be established. That is what he demanded, but nothing has happened. On the contrary, all kinds of attacks are being launched to prevent this ground from being formed.
In order to resolve the Kurdish question not on the basis of armed struggle but through democratic politics and legal means, the conditions for this must be created. The environment and ground for this must be created. Without this, how would the PKK lay down its arms? The basic necessity for the PKK to lay down its arms is the ensuring of the conditions of democratic politics and the legal means. Without this, the PKK cannot lay down its arms or dissolve itself. This is fully clear. This is what the content of the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ is all about.
I also want to highlight that the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ is a joint agreement. It is a joint agreement with the state delegation. No one draws attention to this fact, but I personally find it very important. The state has accepted the content of this call. There is a common consensus in this sense. What is the content and meaning of this call? This call is a call for a democratic republic. This call is a call for democratic reconciliation. It is a call for the Kurdish question to be solved through democratic politics and law. The state said that it accepted this, and a common consensus was reached, and so an according practice must develop. The state has to take concrete steps and has to create the legal and juristic basis for this. The parliament has to work hard for it. Rêber Apo has to regain his physical freedom immediately; he has to be enabled to enter into relations and communication with his organization and everyone else that he likes. They must show sincerity and stop its attacks. But instead, they deny all of this. Some even dare to say that Rêber Apo would have said that there would be no conditions attached to the call. It seems like they have not understood anything from that call. They need to sit down and read that call forty times until they understand what it means. The call itself is the manifesto to solve the Kurdish question on the basis of democratic politics and law. Solving the Kurdish question based on local autonomy is the democratization of Turkey. By giving your consent, you have accepted that call. You have to fulfill your responsibilities. You have to take the according sincere steps.
It’s such a cheap approach on their part. They’re basically saying, “There’s a call; you have to call a congress immediately and dissolve there and then lay down your arms.” As if… Do they really think people are that stupid? Isn’t it enough what they have done to the Kurdish people over the past century? Do they really think that the Kurds have learned nothing from all the conspiracies, games, and tricks that have been played against them? There is such a thing as social memory and consciousness. If they continue on this path, if they continue to insist on their approach, then the people will expose them. They will point their fingers at them, say that all this is just political maneuvering, and show that the state has no sincere intention to solve the Kurdish question in a democratic, peaceful way.
The only concern of the state seems to be to eliminate and liquidate all the values that the Kurds have created through fifty years of struggle – all the values of democracy and freedom – to continue the policy of genocide. It insists on bringing this to a conclusion. There are deep suspicions. They really have been there from the beginning. But Rêber Apo is waging a very strong struggle, knowing this reality of the state. He wants to develop a process in favor of the Kurdish people, the peoples, and the society in Turkey, in favor of women, and he really wants to bring it to a conclusion.
Of course, it is necessary to continue the struggle. In particular, it is necessary to further strengthen the global campaign for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. That is a conclusion that must be drawn from this process. Taking into account Rêber Apo’s call, that is to say, with the perspective of physical freedom for Rêber Apo and democratic society, it is necessary to carry out this campaign successfully and bring it to a conclusion.
>>2199249<It has now been several weeks since the PKK declared a unilateral ceasefire. However, the Turkish state has not followed this step; on the contrary, we are receiving reports that the attacks by the Turkish army are intensifying again. Can you confirm this?The attacks against the freedom movement have never ceased. Since the statement of the leadership of the PKK on March 1, the declaration of a ceasefire, the state has continued its attacks uninterruptedly. The press center of the HPG regularly publishes balance sheets, and they show that the attacks with heavy weaponry on the guerrillas are intensifying. Chemical weapons and phosphorous bombs have been used again since the declaration. The Turkish state continued to use all kinds of banned weapons and continued to commit war crimes. In this sense, the truth of the matter is that in this situation, in the face of these attacks, the ceasefire declared by the PKK does not make much sense. Yashar Guler has made a statement and said that they do not accept the ceasefire. There are some circles that voiced the same mentality. If the PKK has declared a ceasefire, the state should follow this step. There should be a bilateral ceasefire in order for this process to develop. This would be a goodwill approach. It would also be a measure, an indicator in terms of credibility, sincerity, and seriousness.
According to Yashar Guler and the Turkish state and government, they are not waging a war. They are waging a struggle against terrorism. Therefore, since there is no war, there can be no ceasefire. This is how their logic works; this is their point of view. There has been a fierce war for 41 years. Tens of thousands of people have lost their lives, and all the economic resources of Turkey have collapsed in this war. More than four trillion dollars went into this war. The economy collapsed, the state collapsed, and society collapsed. Yet he still denies that there is war. Every day, fighter jets are bombing, UAVs and UCAVs are constantly in the air, tanks and artillery are constantly firing, chemical weapons, phosphorus bombs, and tactical nuclear weapons are used by them, and still he doesn’t want to speak about war.
The friends have said that Guler has complexes; that may be true, but if so, it is only a secondary aspect. What this attitude essentially feeds on is the genocidal mentality, the backward anti-Kurdish mentality. It is a mentality that makes people close their eyes in regard to such a destructive war, with such a heavy cost. This is the stance and mentality of this state. The war continues, and so does the struggle and resistance of our comrades.
FDPD
Karasu: We are concerned about what the real aims of the AKP-MHP government are
Mustafa Karasu, member of the KCK (Kurdistan Communities Union) Executive Council, spoke about the concerns arising from the lack of steps the government said it would take after Abdullah Öcalan's call on 27 February. In reality, no steps have been taken.
<Speaking about Abdullah Öcalan's call and the associated process regarding the Kurdish question, could you elaborate on the current situation?
Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] has made a call. In fact, [MHP leader] Devlet Bahçeli had said: "Let him make a call that the organization will be dissolved, that the war will stop, then the ‘Right to Hope’ will come into play." So Rêber Apo made the call.
He called both for the organization to dissolve itself and for the armed struggle to stop. But for this, he said that a congress must be convened and that he must direct this congress. These issues were discussed and evaluated in Imrali. Comrades Besê and Abbas have already drawn attention to this. Within a week or ten days, Rêber Apo’s conditions were to change with the call. But no steps were taken. So, what are we to believe? It was said that the call should be made and the so-called ‘Right to Hope’ would come into play. The call was made, but the ‘Right to Hope’ did not come into play. It was said that the conditions in Imrali would change; they did not. It was said that Rêber Apo would regain free working and living conditions; this did not happen either.
This situation raises concerns about what the AKP-MHP government aims for and calculates. The Kurdish question is a big question, issues such as the silence of weapons, the organization’s self-dissolution… These are not simple. They themselves have been a problem for the Turkish state for 50 years. Demirel also called it "the biggest rebellion in a thousand years". So now, is this how they will approach it? It is not a situation to be approached with such narrow, simple, ordinary party interests. We were waiting, and so was Rêber Apo. We expected steps to be taken; we expected the talks to continue. What happened? No delegations are going to Imrali. This seems to be a stalling, a holding pattern. Actually, there are promises. Both Bahceli’s promise and various promises that had been given in Imrali are not being fulfilled. It is again us that have to act cold-blooded. Rêber Apo is also calm and patient. But there is a limit. This is not the way to approach a people’s party, leader, and organization. This is not a serious attitude. Their words have no value. They themselves were saying, 'Let’s speed it up!', 'Let’s get quick results.' Where is it? There is great suspicion. From the very beginning, we said that we had our doubts about the approach of the Turkish state. The fact that no steps have been taken has increased these doubts even more. Maybe we will wait a little longer and see if something will develop. But if steps are not taken again, if promises are not fulfilled, we cannot wait like this. We will have to evaluate differently. We will reveal more clearly what this approach means.
One has to laugh when the AKP-MHP fascist government keeps saying ‘legislation’ when it comes to abolishing the Imrali torture system. What kind of ‘legislation’ is that supposed to be? If it suits them, it is applied, or amended if necessary, but if it doesn’t suit them, they pretend there is no legislation. They don’t listen to anyone, neither to the European Union nor to the Constitutional Court in Turkey. When they talk about ‘legislation’, it is a mockery. Now they say, for example, that the ‘Right to Hope’ is not in it. Turkey is a country in the Council of Europe; it has accepted the supremacy of the laws of the European Union over its own laws, and it has accepted that international laws are supra-constitutional.
The European Court has already said, “Implement the Right to Hope”. It had said this long before. If they want anything to happen, they can do it immediately if they want to. Which legislation will prevent them? Both Rêber Apo and our movement always say this. And this is also generally expressed in the democratic arena. Laws need to be passed immediately. We have said this, and so has the opposition within the state. This must be taken to parliament. The parliament is above everything; it makes the laws, and it has to decide. But in reality, the laws that Erdoğan wants are passed; the ones he doesn’t want are not. What the palace says goes. Almost all the opposition say that they wouldn’t refuse the change. They point out that even the constitutional articles can be changed. All parties demand the problem be solved in parliament. So this “legislative issue” that the government is bringing up is just an excuse, a distraction.
It is clear that those who oppose the ceasefire are those who want the war to continue. In fact, there is a certain group in Turkey that wants the war to continue. They benefit from rent and the pretext of "fighting terrorism". As long as the war continues, some people gain rent. They also use war as an excuse to suppress the opposition and terrorize everyone. Even the legal parties are labeled as “associated with terrorism”. There is also this aspect of the issue. Those who do not want to lose these justifications want the war to continue. Now Rêber Apo has made a call, and the PKK will convene its congress, dissolve itself, and stop the armed struggle. For this, two things must happen. First, safe conditions must be ensured for the congress to convene. In other words, the attacks must stop. Second, Rêber Apo must participate in the congress and guide it. No party can be dissolved without a congress. There is no other way. Even if, for example, I were to declare now, “I dissolved the PKK”, without a congress decision, it would be meaningless. A bilateral ceasefire is necessary. There can be no congress when the war is in full swing and attacks continue. The fact that they do not accept this means they don’t want the PKK to be dissolved. The dissolution of the PKK could happen. The armed struggle can be abandoned. But conditions are needed to do these things.
The comrades have said it many times; the founder of this party is Rêber Apo. Party means ideology and politics, and it is the leader who shapes it. Today, the PKK is struggling in line with Rêber Apo’s ideological line. It has changed itself in many ways. It changed itself in the 1990s, accepted the new paradigm, and now it will change again. Instead of armed struggle, other methods of struggle will come into play. It will be about democratic politics. Therefore, the call was very important. We acted responsibly; we immediately responded to that call; we stated that we accepted the call of Rêber Apo. We said we would fulfill the requirements. What more can we do? We fulfill the requirements; the other side does not. We did not say that we would not dissolve the PKK or stop the armed struggle. But for that to happen, a PKK congress must be held, and Rêber Apo must attend. The current approach is not right.
Devlet Bahçeli said: "Go to Malazgirt and hold the congress there." This is not serious. They do not stop the war; all their attacks continue. They would try to kill every PKK member they see. There can be no congress like this. Therefore, Devlet Bahceli’s approach is not serious. He didn’t follow his own call either. He said, "Let Apo make a call, then the ‘Right to Hope’ will be implemented." There is nothing in the middle. So there is an environment that wants the war to continue.
Our people trust Rêber Apo; they trust the party. The people have no doubt that this process can only be led by Rêber Apo. They know that Rêber Apo is acting in the interests of the people and that he trusts this movement. As a matter of fact, in Newroz, the people embraced the call with all their might. However, the Turkish state, and the AKP-MHP government’s failure to take any steps increases suspicion among the people and their international friends. We are cautious when it comes to the Turkish state. We want to move the process forward, but we are cautious. And we never stop being cautious. But being cautious does not mean not doing anything, not advancing a process, or not leading it to success. That is important for everyone.
Our intention is to enter a new period of struggle. It is about a new beginning. To continue with new ways and methods of struggle instead of the old ways and methods. Our paradigm is clear; there is no change in our program. With the new paradigm, we have abandoned the old statist, power-oriented mentality and moved to a mentality striving for freedom and democracy far from the state and power. Instead of the state, we chose democratic confederalism; we chose radical democracy and democratic autonomy. And a democratic society means an organized society; organizing the whole society means democratizing society. Democratization will develop on this basis.
Within this, all kinds of identities can approach each other on a democratic and equal basis. The people of Turkey and the Kurdish people will also approach each other on a democratic basis. A democratic society means all different parts of society approaching each other freely. Radical democracy is a democratic form of organization based on an organized society, and the same accounts for democratic confederalism. It is not a form of state; it is a social-political order based on the self-organization of society. Society builds its own system without waiting for the state.
What we want for the solution to the Kurdish question is clear. The Kurdish people have basic democratic demands; they have non-negotiable rights. Education in their mother tongue is a non-negotiable right; self-government is a non-negotiable right; they have their own identity. Our approach to the ways and methods by which these will be realized is also clear. These can be discussed in the new struggle process. But when no steps are taken, our people and their international friends have doubts: “Will these people make a democratic transformation? Will they build a democratic society?” Yes, these doubts are not unfounded. The government’s current approach prevents the democratic struggle; it shows that they are not willing to carry out the struggle within a democratic framework. Therefore, the suspicion that the people and their international friends had from the beginning continues, and no one can say that this suspicion is unjustified.
We want to carry out this process with Rêber Apo. We want to concretize the call put forward by Rêber Apo, convene the congress, and act in line with this call. We have no hesitation. We are confident in ourselves. In a new struggle process, we will wage a bigger and more effective struggle. We will expand society’s struggle for democracy. We are convinced that the Kurdish people and the democratic forces in Turkey will experience progress, not regression, when this call is fulfilled.
<Speaking about the recent Newroz celebrations in Kurdistan and abroad, What can you tell us about the significance of Newroz in general? And how do you assess the expression of this year’s festivities?
The festivities on the occasion of this year’s Newroz were indeed a peak. I’m not just saying this for the sake of saying it; it really was. The stance, excitement, enthusiasm, and embrace of society emerged beyond what we expected. That is why we are speaking of the ‘Newroz People’. That is why Rêber Apo gave the Kurdish people this title. By the people of Newroz, he means a people of resistance, a people who create themselves through resistance. The greater the power and impact of Newroz, the greater the expression of the reality of the people. Newroz and the people’s reality are intertwined. Because Newroz is the most fundamental cultural value of the Kurdish people. It is a value that keeps the passion for freedom alive.
In the 1970s, especially in northern Kurdistan, the foundation of Newroz was again prepared. The first true Newroz that I participated in was in 1977 in Dilok (tr. Antep). It was our first big Newroz. We piled tires on all the hills, on all the big intersections of Dilok, and then we simultaneously lit up the banks of the city and all the piles of tires. The people of Dilok who didn’t know about Newroz – whether Turkish or Kurdish – were surprised. Everyone was wondering what was going on, why there was fire all over the city. From that day to today, every year Newroz has grown, developing itself further, gaining more depth of meaning, and being embraced by a wider part of society. The Kurdish people have also grown and developed; their striving for freedom and democracy has strengthened and developed. This passion of Newroz also means the rise and deepening of the Kurdish people’s passion for freedom, for democracy, for justice, and their desire to live according to their own values. These people cannot be annihilated anymore, their history cannot be denied anymore, and their struggle cannot be prevented anymore.
That is why Newroz is not just a day. One has to look at what it means for Kurds, what it means for Kurdistan, and for all the peoples of the Middle East. With this year’s Newroz, the Kurdish people expressed that they are ready to be the pioneers of the struggle for freedom and democracy, not only for themselves but for all the Middle East. The passion for freedom, for democracy, and for justice for the people, the attitude of struggle against injustice… The fact that this has become so widespread in society, regardless of age, proves what level the Kurdish social reality has reached as a result of the tradition of Newroz and the decades of struggle.
Newroz in all parts of Kurdistan was very special this year. It was an indicator of the level reached by the results of fifty years of struggle. At the same time, there was a great embrace of the call made by Rêber Apo on February 27th. As we always say, the Newroz of each year is the struggle program of that year. It is like the annual people’s congress. In other words, there the people clarify how to fight that year and what the goals have to be. This year’s Newroz was all about the embracement and support of Rêber Apo’s message of February 27 by the Kurdish people. Rêber Apo’s call and the photo of Imrali motivated society, and a great energy emerged. It is Rêber Apo who has created this people’s reality. Everyone should appreciate and realize the values created by the PKK under the leadership of Rêber Apo. This is not something ordinary. We see what kind of 'Kurdish climate' there is in the Middle East. Without Rêber Apo, without this struggle, would there have been any gains in southern Kurdistan? Could achievements have been made in Rojava? When one talks about the greatness of Newroz, one needs to see what created this vitality and what the results of it are.
>>22156131. The PKK isn't the SDF or the YPG.
2. the DAANES doesn't recognise the HTS government and as far we know has only agreed to a ceasefire with them.
3. >muh oil
>>2215627lmao, what a westoid you are
1.
>doesn't even know the relationship between pkk and bookchinhttps://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14683849.2018.1480370https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/2368-murray-bookchin-and-the-ocalan-connection-the-new-york-times-profiles-the-students-of-pkk-rojava>Though Ocalan has been imprisoned since 1998, he remains the intellectual leader of the revolutionaries in the PKK. From his prison cell, he read Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities, Murray Bookchin's "The Ecology of Freedom," and then, after that, everthing Murray Bookchin has ever written. Whereas PKK members were formely "unabashed Maoists," Ocalan's readings led him to theorize libertarian municipalism, an alternative to the modern-nation state. Enzina describes the fascinating correspondence between Ocalan and the late Bookchin, and the influence Bookchin's social ecology on the PKK.your "communists" becoming anti-communists by no accident, and by no coincidence, lmao.
2.
>all this ignorance about what constitutes the rest of Syria, that is not daanes.the whole point of supporting the rojavist by westoids insects like you is that it would bring kurds in Syria to a better status. Let remind that one of the ethnic groups under HTS rule are kurds.
3.
>muh oilkeep sucking lindsay graham's androgynous blob tits and its delta crescent energy crumbs.
and to add a bit more salt to the open wound of the little morons still supporting ypg:
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-844895>"We welcome anyone in the world who can help support our rights and protect our achievements," Abdi clarified, also stating, "let me give a general answer. We welcome support from anyone."
>These statements followed Jiyar Gol's comment that "there are reports of contact between Rojava and Israel," and that "Israel's Foreign Minister has repeatedly asked for support for the Kurds in Syria."damn, this is socialism bro
Agent Kochinskiite socialism bro.
>>22156361. I fully know the link between PKK and Bookchin. Again, the PKK isn't the SDF or the YPG, those are separate orgs.
>y-you're becoming anti-communistsAgain, more schizo babble. Neither Bookchin nor Apo reject class struggle or Marxism.
In Bookchin's case:
https://files.libcom.org/files/Murray_Bookchin_Reader_-_Ebook.pdf
>It is easy to conclude, from his various critiques, that Bookchin rejected Marxism altogether and sought to annul it. Yet even in his most bitter polemics against 1960s Marxists, he did not abandon Marxism altogether. On the contrary, his lifelong trajectory has been to preserve the dialectical approach of Marx in order to transcend Marxism itself dialectically. Thus, in any study of his work, it is important to identify the aspects of Marxism that he did and did not reject. He rejected, of course, the necessity of hierarchy and domination; the exclusivity of class analysis; the hegemonic role of the proletariat; and the creation of a centralized socialist state. He rejected, too, the repressive regimes that ruled in the name of Marxism. But he respected many other aspects of Marx's work and incorporated them into social ecology, such as its insights into capitalist development, its theory of the commodity, and the notion that complete freedom has material preconditions. Perhaps most importantly, he respected the dialectical form of reasoning that Marx had inherited from Hegel and that Bookchin himself inherited from Marx. Bookchin considers all of these contributions to be lasting and essential to the revolutionary tradition, regardless of other limitations in the Marxist literature. In the case of Abdullah Ocalan he moved away from state-socialism to creating the theory of democratic confederalism.
https://archive.org/details/abdullah-ocalan-beyond-state-power-and-violencehttps://files.libcom.org/files/art_of_freedom_9781629638041.pdfhttps://ocalanbooks.com/downloads/democratic-confederalism.pdf
>From 1999 to 2005, there was another period of reorientation. It marked a complete break with the whole of classical civilization and patriarchy. From 1993 to 1998, there had been attempts and efforts to rebuild the organization. As I mentioned at the beginning, this was, among other things, a reaction to the collapse of the Soviet Union. In the 1980s, feminism was at its apex, and it affected everybody, including the PKK, but it was unable to influence society at large, and it dwindled. During the lifetime of the PKK, all of the real socialist experiences or alternative movements came to a standstill. This is another layer that I want to emphasize. Instead of giving up the idea, especially after 1993, the movement began to really pose the question: Why? What was being done wrong?Critiquing it and critiquing themselves. Learning from the different movements around the world was also a very important part of all of this. Öcalan responded extensively to these questions. Have I mentioned that he has put out more than sixty books, thirteen of them written on the island of İmralı as court submissions? In the midst of everything happening in the world politically, after the collapse of the real socialist countries, Öcalan, in the late 1990s, produced an analysis that specified that “to insist on socialism is to insist on being human.” When patriarchal traits were becoming more prominent or, rather, exposed to an even greater degree, in 1996, he developed an analysis that later became a book titled Killing the [Dominant] Man. All this to say that there were many attempts at this time, but the clear rupture, after a series of developments, of course, came after 1999, when, from 1999 to 2005, he broke with the idea of the state completely. His books show his arguments and the thinking that went into making that rupture.
>Nobody believes that the Arabs will be able to find an Arab national solution to their internal and crossnational problems. However, democratization and a communalist approach might provide such a solution. Their weakness to wards Israel, which the Arab nation-states regard as a competitor, is not only the result of international support by the hegemonic powers. Rather, it is the result of a strong internal democratic and communal institutions within Israel. Over the last century, the society of the Arab nation has been weakened by radical nationalism and Islamism. Yet, if they are able to unite communal socialism which they are not a stranger to with that of the understanding of a democratic nation then they may be able to find themselves a secure, long-term solution.if Bookchin and Apo were anti-communists, why are they expanding on his theory and realising what does/doesn't work within their respective time frames. We may as well call Franz Fanon an anti-communist because he thought the lumpenproles of colonised nations could serve as a revolutionary force.
>>2215641>B-but the Kurds are supporting Israel, and Israel supports the KurdsIf you knew anything about the PKK and the Kurds, you'd know that
1. Israel has ties to the KRG and Iraqi Kurdistan, which the PKK is fighting
2. The PKK is still at war with Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93PKK_relationsThe PKK has also actively continued to fight Israel and demand liberation for Palestine, even going as far to fight alongside Palestenian resistance groups
https://internationalistcommune.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/PKK-Internationalists-in-the-Palestinian-Resistance-1.pdf3. The PKK argues that democratic confederalism, i.e socialism would be a means of solving this conflict.
https://medyanews.net/democratic-confederalism-best-option-for-palestinians-pkks-duran-kalkan/As for the comments on "we'll except whoever will help us"- this is more realpolitik which was during a time that they were fighting the HTS. Should we dismiss the genocide of Alawites because they saw Israel as a means to stop the genocidal actions of the HTS?
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-845607 Secondly, the DAANES also took in thousands of Lebanese refugees who were displaced by Israel
https://anfenglishmobile.com/rojava-syria/-76148
>keep sucking lindsay graham's androgynous blob tits and its delta crescent energy crumbs.Rojava controls its own oil, no amount of turknat propaganda's going to change that.
To add "more salt to the wound"
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-social-ecology-and-communalism#toc19
>Marxism was the most comprehensive and coherent effort to produce a systematic form of socialism, emphasizing the material as well as the subjective historical preconditions of a new society. This project, in the present era of precapitalist economic decomposition and of intellectual confusion, relativism, and subjectivism, must never surrender to the new barbarians, many of whom find their home in what was once a barrier to ideological regression-the academy. We owe much to Marx’s attempt to provide us with a coherent and stimulating analysis of the commodity and commodity relations, to an activist philosophy, a systematic social theory, an objectively grounded or “scientific” concept of historical development, and a flexible political strategy. Marxist political ideas were eminently relevant to the needs of a terribly disoriented proletariat and to the particular oppressions that the industrial bourgeoisie inflicted upon it in England in the 1840s, somewhat later in France, Italy, and Germany, and very presciently in Russia in the last decade of Marx’s life. Until the rise of the populist movement in Russia (most famously, the Narodnaya Volya), Marx expected the emerging proletariat to become the great majority of the population in Europe and North America, and to inevitably engage in revolutionary class war as a result of capitalist exploitation and immiseration. And especially between 1917 and 1939, long after Marx’s death, Europe was indeed beleaguered by a mounting class war that reached the point of outright workers’ insurrections. In 1917, owing to an extraordinary confluence of circumstances — particularly with the outbreak of the First World War, which rendered several quasi-feudal European social systems terribly unstable — Lenin and the Bolsheviks tried to use (but greatly altered) Marx’s writings in order to take power in an economically backward empire, whose size spanned eleven time zones across Europe and Asia. [13]
>But for the most part, as we have seen, Marxism’s economic insights belonged to an era of emerging factory capitalism in the nineteenth century. Brilliant as a theory of the material preconditions for socialism, it did not address the ecological, civic, and subjective forces or the efficient causes that could impel humanity into a movement for revolutionary social change. On the contrary, for nearly a century Marxism stagnated theoretically. Its theorists were often puzzled by developments that have passed it by and, since the 1960s, have mechanically appended environmentalist and feminist ideas to its formulaic ouvrierist outlook.
>By the same token, anarchism — which, I believe, represents in its authentic form a highly individualistic outlook that fosters a radically unfettered lifestyle, often as a substitute for mass action-is far better suited to articulate a Proudhonian single-family peasant and craft world than a modern urban and industrial environment. I myself once used this political label, but further thought has obliged me to conclude that, its often-refreshing aphorisms and insights notwithstanding, it is simply not a social theory. Its foremost theorists celebrate its seeming openness to eclecticism and the liberatory effects of “paradox” or even “contradiction,” to use Proudhonian hyperbole. Accordingly, and without prejudice to the earnestness of many anarchistic practices, a case can made that many of the ideas of social and economic reconstruction that in the past have been advanced in the name of “anarchy” were often drawn from Marxism (including my own concept of “post-scarcity,” which understandably infuriated many anarchists who read my essays on the subject). Regrettably, the use of socialistic terms has often prevented anarchists from telling us or even understanding clearly what they are: individualists whose concepts of autonomy originate in a strong commitment to personal liberty rather than to social freedom, or socialists committed to a structured, institutionalized, and responsible form of social organization. Indeed the history of this “ideology” is peppered with idiosyncratic acts of defiance that verge on the eccentric, which not surprisingly have attracted many young people and aesthetes.
>In fact anarchism represents the most extreme formulation of liberalism’s ideology of unfettered autonomy, culminating in a celebration of heroic acts of defiance of the state. Anarchism’s mythos of self-regulation (auto nomos) — the radical assertion of the individual over or even against society and the personalistic absence of responsibility for the collective welfare — leads to a radical affirmation of the all-powerful will so central to Nietzsche’s ideological peregrinations. Some self-professed anarchists have even denounced mass social action as futile and alien to their private concerns and made a fetish of what the Spanish anarchists called grupismo, a small-group mode of action that is highly personal rather than social.
>Anarchism has often been confused with revolutionary syndicalism, a highly structured and well-developed mass form of libertarian trade unionism that, unlike anarchism, was long committed to democratic procedures,[14] to discipline in action, and to organized, long-range revolutionary practice to eliminate capitalism. Its affinity with anarchism stems from its strong libertarian bias, but bitter antagonisms between anarchists and syndicalists have a long history in nearly every country in Western Europe and North America, as witness the tensions between the Spanish CNT and the anarchist groups associated with Tierra y Libertad early in the twentieth century; between the revolutionary syndicalist and anarchist groups in Russia during the 1917 revolution; and between the IWW in the United States and the SAC in Sweden, to cite the more illustrative cases in the history of the libertarian labor movement. More than one American anarchist was affronted by Joe Hill’s defiant maxim on the eve of his execution in Utah: “Don’t mourn — Organize!” Alas, small groups were not quite the “organizations” that Joe Hill, or the grossly misunderstood idol of the Spanish libertarian movement, Salvador Seguí, had in mind. It was largely the shared word libertarian that made it possible for somewhat confused anarchists to coexist in the same organization with revolutionary syndicalists. It was often verbal confusion rather than ideological clarity that made possible the coexistence in Spain of the FAI, as represented by the anarchist Federica Montseny, with the syndicalists, as represented by Juan Prieto, in the CNT- FAI, a truly confused organization if ever there was one.
>Revolutionary syndicalism’s destiny has been tied in varying degrees to a pathology called ouvrierisme, or “workerism,” and whatever philosophy, theory of history, or political economy it possesses has been borrowed, often piecemeal and indirectly, from Marx — indeed, Georges Sorel and many other professed revolutionary syndicalists in the early twentieth century expressly regarded themselves as Marxists and even more expressly eschewed anarchism. Moreover, revolutionary syndicalism lacks a strategy for social change beyond the general strike, which revolutionary uprisings such as the famous October and November general strikes in Russia during 1905 proved to be stirring but ultimately ineffectual. Indeed, as invaluable as the general strike may be as a prelude to direct confrontation with the state, they decidedly do not have the mystical capacity that revolutionary syndicalists assigned to them as means for social change. Their limitations are striking evidence that, as episodic forms of direct action, general strikes are not equatable with revolution nor even with profound social changes, which presuppose a mass movement and require years of gestation and a clear sense of direction. Indeed, revolutionary syndicalism exudes a typical ouvrierist anti-intellectualism that disdains attempts to formulate a purposive revolutionary direction and a reverence for proletarian “spontaneity” that, at times, has led it into highly self-destructive situations. Lacking the means for an analysis of their situation, the Spanish syndicalists (and anarchists) revealed only a minimal capacity to understand the situation in which they found themselves after their victory over Franco’s forces in the summer of 1936 and no capacity to take “the next step” to institutionalize a workers’ and peasants’ form of government.
>What these observations add up to is that Marxists, revolutionary syndicalists, and authentic anarchists all have a fallacious understanding of politics, which should be conceived as the civic arena and the institutions by which people democratically and directly manage their community affairs. Indeed the Left has repeatedly mistaken statecraft for politics by its persistent failure to understand that the two are not only radically different but exist in radical tension — in fact, opposition — to each other.[15] As I have written elsewhere, historically politics did not emerge from the state — an apparatus whose professional machinery is designed to dominate and facilitate the exploitation of the citizenry in the interests of a privileged class. Rather, politics, almost by definition, is the active engagement of free citizens in the handling their municipal affairs and in their defense of its freedom. One can almost say that politics is the “embodiment” of what the French revolutionaries of the 1790s called civicisme. Quite properly, in fact, the word politics itself contains the Greek word for “city” or polis, and its use in classical Athens, together with democracy, connoted the direct governing of the city by its citizens. Centuries of civic degradation, marked particularly by the formation of classes, were necessary to produce the state and its corrosive absorption of the political realm.
> As for anarchism, Bakunin expressed the typical view of its adherents in 1871 when he wrote that the new social order could be created “only through the development and organization of the nonpolitical or antipolitical social power of the working class in city and country,” thereby rejecting with characteristic inconsistency the very municipal politics which he sanctioned in Italy around the same year. Accordingly, anarchists have long regarded every government as a state and condemned it accordingly — a view that is a recipe for the elimination of any organized social life whatever. While the state is the instrument by which an oppressive and exploitative class regulates and coercively controls the behavior of an exploited class by a ruling class, a government — or better still, a polity — is an ensemble of institutions designed to deal with the problems of consociational life in an orderly and hopefully fair manner. Every institutionalized association that constitutes a system for handling public affairs — with or without the presence of a state — is necessarily a government. By contrast, every state, although necessarily a form of government, is a force for class repression and control. Annoying as it must seem to Marxists and anarchist alike, the cry for a constitution, for a responsible and a responsive government, and even for law or nomos has been clearly articulated — and committed to print! — by the oppressed for centuries against the capricious rule exercised by monarchs, nobles, and bureaucrats. The libertarian opposition to law, not to speak of government as such, has been as silly as the image of a snake swallowing its tail. What remains in the end is nothing but a retinal afterimage that has no existential reality.
>The issues raised in the preceding pages are of more than academic interest. As we enter the twenty-first century, social radicals need a socialism — libertarian and revolutionary — that is neither an extension of the peasant-craft “associationism” that lies at the core of anarchism nor the proletarianism that lies at the core of revolutionary syndicalism and Marxism. However fashionable the traditional ideologies (particularly anarchism) may be among young people today, a truly progressive socialism that is informed by libertarian as well as Marxian ideas but transcends these older ideologies must provide intellectual leadership. For political radicals today to simply resuscitate Marxism, anarchism, or revolutionary syndicalism and endow them with ideological immortality would be obstructive to the development of a relevant radical movement. A new and comprehensive revolutionary outlook is needed, one that is capable of systematically addressing the generalized issues that may potentially bring most of society into opposition to an ever-evolving and changing capitalist system.
>The clash between a predatory society based on indefinite expansion and nonhuman nature has given rise to an ensemble of ideas that has emerged as the explication of the present social crisis and meaningful radical change. Social ecology, a coherent vision of social development that intertwines the mutual impact of hierarchy and class on the civilizing of humanity, has for decades argued that we must reorder social relations so that humanity can live in a protective balance with the natural world.
>Contrary to the simplistic ideology of “eco-anarchism,” social ecology maintains that an ecologically oriented society can be progressive rather than regressive, placing a strong emphasis not on primitivism, austerity, and denial but on material pleasure and ease. If a society is to be capable of making life not only vastly enjoyable for its members but also leisurely enough that they can engage in the intellectual and cultural self-cultivation that is necessary for creating civilization and a vibrant political life, it must not denigrate technics and science but bring them into accord with visions of human happiness and leisure. Social ecology is an ecology not of hunger and material deprivation but of plenty; it seeks the creation of a rational society in which waste, indeed excess, will be controlled by a new system of values; and when or if shortages arise as a result of irrational behavior, popular assemblies will establish rational standards of consumption by democratic processes. In short, social ecology favors management, plans, and regulations formulated democratically by popular assemblies, not freewheeling forms of behavior that have their origin in individual eccentricities.
<this is the so-called rejection of Marxism. >>2215886surely, having open arms for israel has a lot to do with communism and Marxism.
>>2215670>le wall text fallacy. let's inundate the thread with a wall text, surely I win because no one will reply to all of my shit.you aren't an academic for posting that, you are a cretin.
>Again, more schizo babble. Neither Bookchin nor Apo reject class struggle or Marxism. They did, ocalan abandoned Marxism Leninism:
>While in prison, he changed the party’s ideology and abandoned Marxism-Leninism.In fact, Ocalan encouraged new forms of self-government based on democratic confederalist
principles. Rooted in feminism, ecologism, and anti-capitalism, these principles were inspired
by a range of thinkers such as Murray Bookchin, Hannah Arendt, and Immanuel Wallerstein.2
This constitutes the leading paradigm both for the PKK and the legal Kurdish political parties in
Turkey, such as the HDP, which won 10% of the vote in Turkey’s 2015 parliamentary elections.
Democratic confederalism is also the ideology applied in Northern Syria, or Rojava, by the
Kurdish PYD and its affiliated parties
https://air.unimi.it/retrieve/handle/2434/817740/1726883/zanjglobsoutstud.2.1.0115.pdfwhat's laugable, is that out of your three books, Democratic Confederalism, ocalan doesn't mention Marx ONCE. his ideological foundation doesn't mention Marx. He's a fraud, as much as the YPG/PKK.
>f you knew anything about the PKK and the Kurds, you'd know that lmao, your power dynamics of 1 year ago changed, now they are talking one to the other, looking to help one to the other.
> The PKK argues that democratic confederalism, i.e socialism would be a means of solving this conflict.
>LE DEMOCRATIC CONFEDERALISM IS SOCIALISMLMAAAOOOOO
you are a fraud.
>>2216295>we are right about that non-Marxist projectBa'athist Syria?
>>2216289The PKK isn't in Syria, they're in Turkey, waging war against a NATO member state and are supported by Turkish communists. Although at this point I'd imagine any remaining communists in Syria are going to Rojava now that the Ba'athist coalition has been forcibly dissolved and AANES is the only area where they can operate openly.
>>2216317>>2215604>This is the only correct position. Apo is fed lies by t*rkish glowies and has no real information what is going on in Kurdistan.and his mind is probably gone from years of torture and solitary.
>>2216317>The PKK isn't in Syria, they're in Turkey, waging war against a NATO member state and are supported by Turkish communists. Iraq, they don't really do attacks in turkey anymore.
The communist space in turkey has always been behind the SDF, with thousands going to fight for the revolution and forming their own units, it's only western communists who hold meme positions like the freak constantly screaming in broken english ITT.
I said I was not going to post more, but this is funny
>>2216317sabo always shows himself as a radlib. Since 2019, at least.
>Ba'athist Syria?I point out the hypocrisy of considering ocalan socialist, the same condescending premise westoids, little cretins, believe that somehow an ideological movement that isn't mentioning Marx (see
>>2216225 most recent book, Democratic Confederalism, from first edition 2011) and not even declares itself socialist, just "Democratic confederalism" whatever that crap is, which is the result of years of exchange with an anticommunist bookchin who hated that children were fed under the USSR rule, which is at least ONE step below what the Ba'ath party offered, with a banner explicitly offering socialism, not whatever ethnocrap ocalan drew in his head.
and sabo runs and deflects by saying,
WITH NO EVIDENCE, that the Ba'th party is the one who abandoned Marxism.
yup, radlib forever.
>>2216415honest question, what would anyone care what the turkish communist party has to say about the Syrian conflict, picking the obvious side of the interests of turkiye that fractured a state? and why that should be more relevant than the eternal support the Communist Party of Syria gave for decades to the Ba'ath party?
>>2216645>I point out the hypocrisy of considering ocalan socialistNo hypocrisy, I don't consider either Ba'athists or the PKK to be socialist, but I do consider them both progressive.
>and sabo runs and deflects by saying, WITH NO EVIDENCE, that the Ba'th party is the one who abandoned MarxismDo you know literally anything about Ba'athism? You're right that it never "abandoned" Marxism because it was never Marxist to begin with and never claimed to be. In fact Ba'athists have often been perpetrators of viscious anti-communist repression.
<The Ba'athist coup of 8 February 1963 was accompanied by street fighting as Communist activists and supporters resisted the coup attempt. Fighting in Baghdad continued for three days, concentrated in the party's strongholds. When the Baath consolidated its power the ICP suffered an unprecedented campaign of suppression. Leading figures and cadres of the Party killed, including Husain al-Radi. The total number of communists killed is unknown, but was certainly in the dozens.[47]<In the mid-1960s, the U.S. State Department estimated the party membership to be approximately 15,000 (0.47% of the working age population of the country).[48]<In 1978 Saddam Hussein unleashed a renewed campaign of repression against the party, including the execution of large numbers of party members. In 1979, the party broke ties with the Iraqi government.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Communist_Party<During the early 1980s, the Syrian government clamped down on political activity and the Communist Party was subject to severe restrictions, despite its participation in the NPF. It was prevented from publishing its newspapers Nidhal ash-Sha'b ("the People's Struggle") and an-Nour ("the Light"), and its activities were closely monitored by the security services. It effectively operated underground throughout most of the 1980s, with membership lists a closely guarded secret. In 1986, the anti-communist crackdown ended and the ban on the communist party was lifted by Assad as a concession to the Soviets.[6]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Communist_PartyApo may have broken with socialism, but he never waged campaigns of anti-communist violence and unlike the Ba'athists has been a reliable ally of communists in his country.
>>2216661> Marxism because it was never Marxist to begin with and never claimed to beeven Wikpedia contradiicts your argument, Ba'ath party founding members were inspired by Marx, and learned from him.
Obvs. you don't know this, because you are westoid, propagandized to pick whatever liindsay graham and other neocons say what's more Marxist than other things.
>Arsuzi was an Arab from Alexandretta who had been associated with Arab nationalist politics during the interwar period. He was inspired by the French Revolution, the German and Italian unification movements, and the Japanese economic "miracle".[28] His views were influenced by a number of prominent European philosophical and political figures, among them Georg Hegel, Karl Marx, Friedrich Nietzsche and Oswald Spengler.[29]>Socialism is an important pillar of the Ba'athist programme. Although influenced by Western socialists and Marxist parties, the Ba'ath party founders constructed a socialist vision which they believed to be more adaptable to Arab historical context. Articles 26–37 of the 1947 Ba'ath Party Charter outlines the key principles of Ba'athist socialism.>Michel Aflaq was a deep admirer of Marxist tenets, and he considered the Marxist concept of the importance of material economic conditions in life to be one of modern humanity's greatest discoveries.[59]
>This faction went beyond the pan-Arab ideological basis of Aflaqite Ba'athists by prioritising the establishment of a socialist state, imposing Marxist policies associated with the "class struggle" doctrine and stressed the domination of Ba'athist military apparatus over society.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%27athismand endless points signaling how in fact, you are wrong that "was never Marxist to beging with"
even trotskyietes like ted grant in 1978 admitted the Ba'ath party never abandoned socialism deep in 1978:
>The quotation that is given from Tabitha Petran merely proves this point, when he shows that in order to gain foreign reserves, Assad offered inducements for emigrants to repatriate their capital, although it has been estimated that anything from 2,000 million dollars to 5,000 million dollars had been stashed away by the landowners and big business because of the uncertainties of the regime. Kumar himself gives the figure of 1,000 million dollars, out of the 3,000 to 5,000 million, has actually been reinvested in Syria. This was just a drop in the ocean and utterly incapable of transforming the situation in Syria. In any event, as the document itself explains, “The domains open to private investments were construction, transport and tourism. Investment in industry required special authorisation.” (p 46). This speaks for itself. It is clear that the Syrian bureaucracy, the military bureaucracy, and civilian bureaucracy of the Ba’ath Party, have no intention whatsoever of returning to any form of capitalism in Syria.https://www.marxists.org/archive/grant/1978/07/kumar.htmradlib
>>2217140Also
>le big wall of textThe big wall of text already explains how both Bookchin and Ocalan don't reject socialism, class analysis or Marx flat out- only that they have issues with Marxism Leninism and the state apparatus. You would know this if you actually bothered to read the text.
>>2217215I mean, I don't think some people get the level of conservative ideology there. I got almost taken to the police station for asking the hotel receptionist if he ever tasted wine after a long talk with him
during Ramadan, yes I'm a retard.
This place certainly wasn't Istanbul which is admittedly full of gay anarcho-libs, it was a place where once you marry a girl, it's for life, the concept of "hook-ups" or "dating" don't really exist, and you better pray 5 times a day if you live there, otherwise you won't have many friends. (Still loved my time there, it's absolutely beautiful.)
The sheer existence of the PKK was somehow a miracle, but online armchairs love to shit on it to parrot the insanity of old BO who wrecked the original board. People love to be stupid for some reason, it seems.
>>2217241 (me)
Just to add something I forgot to mention: protesting in favor of the DEM Party, even if they are socdems, is already pretty dangerous at it is, Turkish cops won't hesitate to kick your ass if you publicly say you are in favor of them loudly enough.
It's time to let go the PKK/Rojava hate that was fomented by the retarded Marcyite old BO we had on 8chan. It's so tired at this point it's just pathetic. Go there and see for yourself if they are close to "join the real workers' movement" or if they are "CIA operatives working in favor of NATO" when Syrian Kurdistan was literally fighting against a NATO state: Erdogan's Turkey.
>>2217395It isn't a proletarian movement. A blacksmith can work at the shop he owns but that doesn't make him a "worker", but petty bourgeois.
A workers co-op, or a village owned business are not proletarian either. It's only when the workers (proletarians) own collectively the means of production that it is a proletarian workers movement.
>>2217235Socdemn solidarity
>>2217237Trve that's why I critically support the restoration of monarchy in Iran rather than the striking Iranian workers who get massacred every month or so.
>>2217408The feeble mouth flapping of a petty bourgeois “socialist”. I didn’t even use the word “state”. The outcome I described could even be achieved by a social organisation without any bureaucrats, completely inline with anarchist traditions.
So you have revealed yourself to not only be rejecting Marxism but rejecting all socialist and anarchist positions which posit a collective ownership of the means of production. At least the Kurds have the excuse that most of them are peasants.
Turkey has become the hub of reactionary politics in the Middle East
Turkey is a country with expansionist ambitions in the Middle East. Under the pretext of "fighting the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) and the Kurds," it has deployed its army in Iraq and Syria. A significant portion of Southern Kurdistan is currently under military occupation. Turkey has established dozens of military bases across the region. Even the base it built in Bashiqa could not be dismantled by the Iraqi government; instead, Turkey has further entrenched itself and turned it into a permanent presence.
Turkey’s activities in Southern Kurdistan and Iraq go far beyond what has already been mentioned. It has extended its reach to the Turkmen population, training and organizing them along nationalist and reactionary lines. Turkey is using these communities to pursue its broader ambitions in Kirkuk and across Iraq. At the same time, it has transformed Southern Kurdistan into an open economic market under its influence. Turkey is also continuing its efforts to exert influence over Sunni communities. Its interference in Iraq’s internal affairs has become deeply entrenched.
The Turkish army launched its occupation of parts of Syria with the explicit aim of preventing the Kurds from gaining status and power. It formed alliances with numerous groups, including ISIS, and occupied regions such as Afrin (Efrîn) and Serêkaniyê, where it carried out acts of ethnic cleansing against the Kurdish population. Through the deployment of its mercenaries in Idlib, Turkey acted as a protector for Jabhat al-Nusra, enabling it to organize itself like a state. By manipulating the Astana process, Turkey created a front against the Kurds. It stalled both Russia and Iran while supporting Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS). This support ultimately contributed to the weakening of the Baath regime and the partial withdrawal of Iranian forces from Syria. As a result, Russia’s presence in Syria was significantly weakened and its operational capacity severely limited.
Following the weakening of the Baath regime, the Turkish state reached an agreement with HTS and launched new attacks targeting the Kurds and the Autonomous Administration. Areas such as Shehba, Til Rifaat, and Manbij were seized. However, the offensive was halted in Tishrin. These months-long assaults aimed to completely dismantle the Autonomous Administration and crush the Kurdish people.
Turkey is now working to ensure HTS gains full control over parts of Syria. It has placed the newly formed administration under tight surveillance and installed its own operatives in the ministries. Turkey has taken charge of building and training the so-called Syrian army, aiming to expand its influence in the region and establish long-term domination.
Turkey is working to ensure that Syria adopts an extremely centralized and religion-based state structure. Instead of supporting a democratic and pluralistic constitution grounded in freedom, it has encouraged and promoted a reactionary, repressive, and religion-based provisional constitution. Turkey has openly declared its full support for the newly formed provisional government, which, despite all warnings and objections, was established under the control of HTS, excluding Syria’s diverse communities and organized political forces.
Turkey refuses to withdraw from the regions it has occupied in Syria, and there is no serious pressure or demand placed upon it to do so. HTS, meanwhile, is in no position to object. Turkey is not content with the status quo and is now working to establish new military bases across Syrian territory. In recent days, there has been a marked increase in Israeli airstrikes deep inside Syria. These attacks are said to be linked to Turkey’s efforts to construct new military bases. Israel opposes the formation of a state-like structure in Syria under HTS leadership. It defines HTS as a terrorist group with a religious-ideological agenda and views its growing influence as a direct threat to Israeli security.
It is well known that under President Erdoğan’s leadership, Turkey has supported the Muslim Brotherhood across the Middle East and has invested heavily in them. Turkey has also supported Hamas, which has contributed to tensions in its relationship with Israel. Turkey’s attempts to facilitate HTS dominance in Syria have further escalated Israel’s concerns. In response to Turkey’s initiatives to establish military bases at several Syrian airfields, Israel has carried out targeted strikes and issued explicit warnings to Ankara.
As is well known, Israel has declared its intent to redraw the map of the Middle East. Both Hamas and Hezbollah have been largely neutralized. In fact, it was Israel that played a decisive role in the collapse of the Baath regime. Hezbollah and Iranian forces in Syria were consistently targeted and gradually rendered ineffective. As these forces lost their influence, the Baath regime was deprived of its key sources of support and eventually fell. Having engineered this outcome, Israel is now unwilling to allow Turkey to step in and capitalize on these gains. The Middle East is being restructured around Israel’s security priorities. Turkey is not unaware of this reality. Nevertheless, it is seeking to exploit the presence of HTS and the resulting power vacuum in Syria to further its own expansionist agenda.
Turkey is adopting a cautious stance towards Israel. Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan stated: "We do not want to come into conflict with Israel." However, Israel remains firm and unyielding on this matter. It is determined to dismantle Syria’s entire military infrastructure and strongly opposes the establishment of any new, powerful army. On this issue, Turkey and Israel stand on opposing sides.
Turkey is pursuing expansionist policies across the Middle East. President Erdoğan is ideologically aligned with both HTS and the Muslim Brotherhood. He continues to deploy mercenaries and position troops in neighboring countries. However, it is not possible to engage in such aggressive expansionism without eventually coming into conflict with other powers. Unlike Iraq or Syria, Israel is not a weakened state. Still, Turkey is unwilling to relinquish its ambitions in Syria. Erdoğan is likely to push forward as far as circumstances allow. As a result, Syria will remain a persistent source of regional tension.
Turkey has now fully assumed the role of a reactionary center in the region. This fact must not be ignored. The Turkish state actively works to suppress progressive and democratic movements. By fueling nationalism, it supports religion-based regimes and reactionary groups. Its silence in the face of massacres against Alawite communities, and its backing of HTS in this context, stems from the same ideological alignment.
DEM Party delegation meets with Russian deputy foreign ministers
The delegation from the Peoples’ Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party), consisting of co-deputy chair of the Foreign Affairs Commission Ebru Günay, co-deputy chair Mehmet Rüştü Tiryaki, co-spokesperson of the Economic Commission Saruhan Oluç, and Party Spokesperson Gülistan Kılıç Koçyiğit, continues its meetings in Russia.
The delegation met separately with Russian deputy Foreign Ministers Aleksandr V. Gruşko and Mikhail Leonidovich Bogdanov.
The meeting with Gruşko focused on developments in Europe and the United States, Turkey–Russia relations, political developments in Turkey, and Abdullah Öcalan’s 27 February call’s impact on both domestic and international levels for peace and a democratic society.
Abdullah Öcalan’s call discussed
In the meeting with Bogdanov, discussions included recent political developments in the Middle East, particularly in Syria and Iraq, steps taken toward a democratic resolution of the Kurdish question, opportunities stemming from Abdullah Öcalan’s call, and regional governance experiences of the Russian Federation.
Imrali Delegation: We are more hopeful than we were yesterday
The Peoples' Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party) Imrali Delegation issued a written statement after their meeting with the President and AKP chair, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
The statement is as follows:
"Our meeting with President Mr. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his delegation took place in an extremely positive, constructive, productive atmosphere full of hope for the future.
The importance of the current stage in the process was reaffirmed, and the next steps were mutually evaluated. It was emphasized that a period free of violence and conflict, in which democratic and political spaces are strengthened, is of vital importance for our country, our citizens, and our region.
Our delegation and party will continue their efforts with even greater determination and care to realize the Call for Peace and a Democratic Society in the upcoming period. As of today, we are honored to share with the entire nation that we are more hopeful than we were yesterday.
We extend our gratitude to all political parties and social segments who have contributed to the process so far, through their proposals, warnings, or criticisms."
PKK: We expect leader Abdullah Öcalan to be in a position to lead the party congress
The PKK Executive Committee published a statement to mark 1 May and said it "expects leader Abdullah Öcalan to be in a position to lead the party congress".
The statement said that the PKK expects the situation in Imralı to change in order for the points outlined in Abdullah Öcalan’s February 27 call to be realized. The statement also emphasized that despite the AKP government's delaying tactics and military attacks, the Kurdistan Freedom Movement has maintained the decisions and stance expressed in its 8 March and Newroz declarations.
The PKK statement further noted that the February 27 "Call for Peace and a Democratic Society" does not involve expectations from the state or government, but rather embraces an approach centered on educating, organizing, and mobilizing society with the consciousness of freedom and democracy. It underlined that peace can only be achieved in this way, and that a democratic society can only be realized on this basis.
The statement said: "Thus, no one should be in a state of worry or waiting; in line with the spirit of unity, solidarity, and struggle of 1 May, everyone must mobilize to develop the democratic communal consciousness, organization, and unity of all the oppressed, and work to win everything on this basis."
The statement of the PKK Executive Committee continued as follows: "We are witnessing a new 1 May, the day of unity, solidarity, and struggle for the working class. Following 6 March and Newroz, on 1 May, the working and laboring people will fill the squares and raise the anti-fascist democratic struggle in every area. They will loudly proclaim the overthrow of fascism and the establishment of a free, equal, and just democratic order. They will develop unity, solidarity, and struggle for the construction of a democratic society based on women's freedom and social ecology.
On this basis, we once again celebrate May 1st for Leader Apo, all comrades, workers and laborers, women and youth, our patriotic people, and our democratic friends; and we wish great success to everyone carrying out the struggle for freedom and democracy in the new May 1st year. We remember with respect, love, and gratitude all May 1st martyrs, in particular the 1977 Taksim martyrs and guerrilla commanders such as Mehmet Karasungur, Mehmet Emin Aslan, and Ramazan Kaplan.
During this May 1st process, we send our best wishes and a speedy recovery to our very dear friend and comrade Sırrı Süreyya Önder, who is courageously fighting for life."
The statement added: "It is very clear that May 1st remains the most meaningful and vivid legacy of real socialism. Undoubtedly, what keeps it alive is the truth of resistance and martyrdom it carries. Resistance for liberation from oppression, cruelty, and exploitation, and maintaining this struggle in the spirit of martyrdom, has created a value that always guides and strengthens the fight for freedom, equality, and justice. While many characteristics of real socialism have historically faded, the truth of May 1st continues to shine as a guiding and inspiring star in the consciousness of laboring peoples.
The Kurdistan Freedom Movement and the Kurdish people, under the leadership of Leader Apo, have brought March 8 and Newroz to life in their true meaning through their historic freedom resistance, and similarly have elevated the struggle for freedom and democracy during May 1sts to create the most meaningful form of life. Every May 1st has become a day for renewing democratic socialist consciousness and will, as well as a day for continuously developing organization and action.
The Democratic Civilization Theory developed by Leader Apo has enabled the May 1st reality to be understood more correctly and sufficiently, and to be lived in a way most faithful to its meaning."
The statement continued: " "It is clear that our movement, our people, our friends, and the working peoples are experiencing this May 1st on the basis of Leader Apo’s "Call for Peace and a Democratic Society" made on February 27. It is very clear that there can be no peace without freedom and democracy. Without such peace in Kurdistan, conflicts in the Middle East and the world cannot end, and true peace cannot be achieved. This is because the global capitalist modernity system, which is inherently based on internal contradictions, conflict, and war, was shaped on the foundation of Kurdistan’s partition and its subjugation under colonialist-genocidal domination. Therefore, true peace in the world and the Middle East can only be achieved through peace in Kurdistan.
A democratic society expresses humanity’s natural stance, in line with its essence. A democratic society means an economic and ecological society. A democratic society means a society that embraces women's freedom. A democratic society means a democratic confederalist society. A democratic society means a moral and political society — that is, a democratic socialist society. Today, women and Kurds, as the most oppressed parts of humanity, are in greater need than anyone else of peace and development as a democratic society. Therefore, especially women and youth, as well as our people and our friends, will understand the meaning of the "Call for Peace and a Democratic Society" more profoundly than anyone else and will turn the May 1st activities into a process of growing this consciousness and action. By spreading the paradigm of democratic modernity to all corners of the world, they will develop the consciousness and solidarity of democratic society and internationalism in every field."
We expect leader Öcalan to be in a position to lead the party congress
The statement said: "Our people and the democratic public know very well that as a movement and as a people, we have fully embraced Leader Apo’s "Call for Peace and a Democratic Society" made on February 27, and in the past two months, we have tried to understand it correctly and apply it successfully. We clearly expressed this stance and our commitment in our March 1st and Newroz statements. Despite the AKP government's stalling tactics and military attacks, we have maintained the decisions and attitude we expressed in those statements. Knowing the difficulty of the problems we are trying to solve, we are trying not to rush and not to be the party that disrupts the process. The İmralı Delegation of the DEM Party is making optimistic statements. We hear that Leader Apo is hopeful and continuing his efforts. However, we have yet to receive anything concrete that would allow the implementation of what was outlined in the February 27 Call. We hope for a change in this situation — that Leader Apo will achieve conditions where he can live and work freely and be able to lead the party congress that everyone eagerly awaits.
Here, we would like once again to warn our people and friends and to call on them to correctly understand and successfully implement the February 27 Call. It is very clear that the February 27 "Call for Peace and a Democratic Society" is not a call to wait for the state or the government to grant us something. On the contrary, it is a call to educate society with the consciousness of freedom and democracy, to organize, and to make democratic action possible. Peace will be won in this way, and a democratic society can only be achieved on this basis. Therefore, no one should express anxiety or wait passively; in line with the spirit of May 1st — unity, solidarity, and struggle — everyone should mobilize and work to develop the democratic societal consciousness, organization, and unity of all the oppressed and win everything on this basis."
The call is, above all, a call for a revolution in mentality and way of life
The statement ended with the following remarks: "
For this, first and foremost, one must change their own mentality and way of life. It must be well understood that the Call for Peace and Democratic Society is, above all, a call for a revolution in mentality and lifestyle. The time is now a time for change and transformation along the lines of peace and democratic society. Such a process has already begun. No matter how much resistance there may be, no one will be able to remain outside this change and transformation.
Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] has undergone his own revolutionary change and transformation. On this basis, the PKK is also undergoing the necessary change and transformation. Based on these, the entire Kurdish people, women, and youth will experience democratic change and transformation, which will, in turn, lead to democratic change and transformation across Turkey and the Middle East. Both May Day and our Month of Martyrs in May will, with the leadership of women and youth, become a means for our people and our friends to experience such change and transformation.
On this basis, we once again celebrate the May Day of all workers and laborers, women and youth, and socialist and revolutionary forces. We respectfully, lovingly, and gratefully commemorate all our martyrs of May, especially our comrades Haki Karer, Mehmet Karasungur, and Hozan Mizgîn. We call on all our patriotic people and democratic friends to actively and widely participate in the May Day celebrations wherever they are!"
>>2265150>>2265156>The PKK disbanded it's ogreThe PKK has done this multiple times before, "disbanding" only to re-organise into a different org.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pkk-kurdish-militant-group-disband-disarm-part-peace-121702145
<Firat news said the congress “decided to dissolve the PKK’s organizational structure and the end armed struggle, with the practical implementation of this process to be led and overseen by (Ocalan.) As a result, activities carried out under the name ‘PKK’ were formally terminated.”
<Congress assessed that the PKK’s struggle had “brought the Kurdish issue to the point of resolution through democratic politics, thus completing its historical mission.”We'll see what happens.
https://anfenglishmobile.com/news/pkk-final-declaration-activities-under-the-pkk-name-have-ended-79294
>The PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party) 12th Congress Board issued the following statement: “The process initiated by Leader Abdullah Öcalan’s statement on February 27, and further shaped by his extensive work and multidimensional perspectives, culminated in the successful convening of our 12th Party Congress between May 5–7.
>Despite ongoing clashes, aerial and ground attacks, continued siege of our regions, and the KDP embargo, our congress was held securely under challenging conditions. Due to security concerns, it was conducted simultaneously in two different locations. With the participation of 232 delegates in total, the PKK 12th Congress discussed Leadership, Martyrs, Veterans, the Organizational Structure of the PKK and Armed Struggle, and Democratic Society Building, culminating in historic decisions marking the beginning of a new era for our Freedom Movement.
>All activities under the PKK name have been concluded
>The Extraordinary 12th Congress evaluated that the PKK’s struggle has dismantled the policies of denial and annihilation imposed on our people, bringing the Kurdish issue to a point where it can be resolved through democratic politics. It concluded that the PKK has fulfilled its historical mission. Based on this, the 12th Congress resolved to dissolve the PKK’s organizational structure and end the armed struggle, with the implementation process to be managed and led by Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan]. All activities conducted under the PKK name have therefore been concluded. Our party, the PKK, emerged as a Kurdish freedom movement in opposition to the denial and annihilation policies rooted in the Treaty of Lausanne and the 1924 Constitution. Influenced by real socialism at its inception, it embraced the principle of national self-determination and carried out a legitimate, just struggle through armed resistance. The PKK was formed under conditions dominated by aggressive Kurdish denial, annihilation, genocide, and assimilation policies.
>Since 1978, the PKK has conducted a freedom struggle aimed at securing recognition for Kurdish existence and establishing the Kurdish issue as a fundamental reality of Turkey. As a result of this successful struggle, our movement achieved a resurrection revolution for our people, becoming a symbol of hope and a dignified life for the peoples of the region. During the 1990s, a period of major gains for our people, Turkish President Turgut Özal began seeking a political solution to the Kurdish issue. In response, Leader Apo declared a ceasefire on March 17, 1993, launching a new phase. However, the collapse of real socialism, the imposition of gang-like tactics on our war strategy, and the deep state’s elimination of Özal and his team sabotaged this initiative. The state intensified its denial and annihilation policies, escalating the war. Thousands of villages were evacuated and burned; millions of Kurds were displaced; tens of thousands were tortured and imprisoned; and thousands were killed under suspicious circumstances.
>In response, the Freedom Movement grew both in size and capacity. Guerrilla warfare spread across Kurdistan and Turkey. The impact of the guerrilla struggle led the Kurdish people to rise in mass uprisings (serhildans), turning war into the primary option for both sides. The resulting mutual escalation of war could not be reversed, and Leader Apo’s efforts to solve the Kurdish issue through democratic and peaceful means ultimately failed."
>Rebuilding Turkish-Kurdish relations is inevitable. The process entered a different phase with the international conspiracy of February 15, 1999. In this process, one of the main goals of the conspiracy, a Kurdish-Turkish war, was prevented thanks to the great sacrifices and efforts of Leader Apo. Despite being held in the İmralı torture and genocide system, he persisted in seeking a democratic and peaceful solution to the Kurdish issue. For 27 years, Leader Apo has resisted the İmralı system of annihilation, nullifying the international conspiracy. In his struggle, he analyzed the male-dominated, power-driven statist system and developed a paradigm for a democratic, ecological, and women's freedom-oriented society. Thus, he materialized an alternative freedom system for our people, women, and oppressed humanity.
>Leader Apo, by referring to the period before the Treaty of Lausanne and the 1924 Constitution, where Kurdish-Turkish relations became problematic, proposed a framework for resolving the Kurdish issue based on the Democratic Republic of Turkey and the concept of a Democratic Nation, founded on the idea of a Common Homeland and co-founding peoples. The Kurdish uprisings throughout the history of the Republic, the 1000-year Kurdish-Turkish dialectic, and 52 years of leadership struggle have shown that the Kurdish issue can only be resolved based on a Common Homeland and Equal Citizenship. Current developments in the Middle East within the scope of World War III also make the restructuring of Kurdish-Turkish relations inevitable.
>With the legacy of our history of freedom, struggle, and resistance, and the decisions of the PKK’s 12th Congress, the democratic political path will develop more strongly, and the future of our peoples will progress based on freedom and equality. The poor and working peoples, all faith groups, women and youth, workers, peasants, and all excluded segments will assert their rights and develop a common life in a just and democratic environment.
>We call on everyone to join the peace and democratic society process
>The decision of our Congress to dissolve the PKK and end the method of armed struggle offers a strong basis for lasting peace and a democratic solution. Implementing these decisions requires that Leader Apo lead and guide the process, that his right to democratic politics be recognized, and that solid, comprehensive legal guarantees be established. At this stage, it is essential that the Grand National Assembly of Turkey play its role with historical responsibility. Likewise, we call on the government, the main opposition party, all political parties represented in parliament, civil society organizations, religious and faith communities, democratic media outlets, opinion leaders, intellectuals, academics, artists, labor unions, women’s and youth organizations, and ecological movements to assume responsibility and join the peace and democratic society process.
>The involvement of Turkey’s leftist-socialist forces, revolutionary structures, organizations, and individuals in the peace and democratic society process will elevate the struggle of peoples, women, and the oppressed to a new level. This will mean achieving the goals of the great revolutionaries whose last words were “Long live the brotherhood of the Turkish and Kurdish peoples and a fully independent Turkey!”
>With Democratic Society Socialism representing a new phase in the peace and democratic society process and the struggle for socialism, the global democracy movement will advance, and a just and equal world will emerge. On this basis, we call on democratic public opinion, especially our comrades leading the Global Freedom Initiative, to expand international solidarity within the framework of the democratic modernity theory.
>We call on international powers to acknowledge their responsibilities in the century-long genocide policies against our people, not to obstruct a democratic solution, and to contribute constructively to the process.
>We announce the martyrdom of Ali Haydar Kaytan and Riza Altun. Our 12th PKK Congress, convened at the call of our leadership, has declared the martyrdom of Fuat-Ali Haydar Kaytan, one of our party’s leading cadres, who was martyred on July 3, 2018, and comrade Riza Altun, martyred on September 25, 2019. On this basis, it has recognized comrade Fuat-Ali Haydar Kaytan, one of the founding leading cadres of the PKK, as the symbol of “Loyalty to the Leader, Truth, and Sacred Life,” and comrade Riza Altun, one of Leader Apo’s first comrades, as the symbol of “Freedom Comradeship.” We dedicate our historic 12th Party Congress to these two great martyr comrades who have led us from the beginning of our Freedom Movement until today with their uninterrupted struggle. In their names, we renew our promise to all martyrs of the struggle and affirm our commitment to fulfilling the dreams of Peace and Democracy Martyr Comrade Sırrı Süreyya Önder.
>Our people will understand the dissolution of the PKK and the end of armed struggle better than anyone and embrace the duties of this era. Our honorable people, who have joined the Leadership and PKK path for 52 years at great cost, resisting policies of denial, annihilation, genocide, and assimilation, will support the peace and democratic society process more consciously and organizedly. We firmly believe that our people will understand the decision to dissolve the PKK and end the method of armed struggle better than anyone and will embrace the responsibilities of the democratic struggle era based on building a democratic society. It is of vital importance that our people, led by women and youth, build their self-organizations in all areas of life, organize on the basis of self-sufficiency through their language, identity, and culture, become self-defensive in the face of attacks, and build a communal democratic society with a spirit of mobilization. On this basis, we believe that Kurdish political parties, democratic organizations, and opinion leaders will fulfill their responsibilities to advance Kurdish democracy and the democratic nationhood of the Kurds.>>2265168>this is cucking to the turkish state>>2265176The PKK isn't Rojava, lad.
President Erdoğan’s advisor: Comprehensive reforms will be implemented
Mehmet Uçum, the chief advisor to AKP President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, shared a statement on X (formerly Twitter), saying: "Together with all the elements of the people of Turkey, Turks and Kurds won the War of Independence as a struggle for existence against imperialism and established the Republic of Turkey, thereby determining their own fate together for eternity. Kurds are an essential founding component of the Turkish nation."
Kurds are founders and permanent owners of the Republic
His statement continued as follows: "Kurds, as an inseparable part of the Turkish nation, are founders and permanent owners of the Republic of Turkey. The Republic of Turkey is also the national state of the Kurds. The Century of Turkey is the century of both Turks and Kurds. All the statements made in line with this paradigm show that a key stage in the transition to a 'Turkey without terrorism' has been completed. Moreover, these statements are a historical confirmation and declaration of the integration of Kurds with the Turkish Republic and the Turkish Nation."
Inclusive reforms to be implemented
Uçum continued: "'A Turkey without terrorism’ is not an end but a new beginning. The achievement of the goal of a Turkey without terrorism and the completion of this phase mark the start of a historic period of advancement for Turkey. It is widely accepted that a new phase will begin, in which comprehensive reforms will be implemented in the fields of democracy and law, and national and patriotic democratic legal principles will be concretely realized.
As can be seen, the founding process that began with the War of Independence and was formalized with the proclamation of the Republic will be completed with inclusive reforms, starting with a new constitution, following the transition to a Turkey without terrorism. Thus, Turkey, having completed its founding process, will continue its great march toward making the second century of the Republic the Century of Turkey, without obstacles and with even greater strength."
>Turkish Communist Party Statement:
With today’s announcement by the PKK, a new chapter begins in Turkey’s political and social dynamics. Naturally, our party supports the aspect of the process referred to as the “silencing of arms.”
However, we oppose the substance of today’s statement, which aligns with the framework previously articulated by Bahçeli, Öcalan, and AKP officials. The historical trajectory of these developments suggests that the AKP government intends to continue its 23-year-old policies and transition them into a new phase.
The struggle for equality, freedom, secularism, independence, and the Republic has entered a new stage in our country. Once again, it has become clear that no fundamental issue can be resolved without a commitment to socialism and the determination to overthrow capitalism. The claim that the “Kurdish question” is a separate or superior issue, disconnected from Turkey’s core problems, has been collapsing as of today. It is evident that the current system and the AKP government are both unwilling and unable to offer anything but further exploitation and reactionary policies to our citizens—whether Kurdish, Turkish, or from other ethnic backgrounds.
The upcoming steps, which will be presented under the guise of “democratization,” will primarily involve the “release” of certain social groups and politicians who have been held as political hostages for years in order to promote support for the government to achieve its goals. This “hostage release” policy is intended to legitimize AKP’s Turkey through a new Constitution imbued with neo-Ottomanist and market-oriented content, as well as to secure the upcoming elections. While the release of political hostages should, of course, be supported, the broader political objectives of this maneuver must be firmly rejected.
We refuse to allow Turkey’s working people to bear the cost of this cosmetic transformation. As consistently emphasized, we will oppose placing the blame on the founding of the Republic of Turkey and on socialism. The Communist Party of Turkey (TKP) will engage with this period through principled, creative, and revolutionary intervention, and will continue its determined struggle to present the real bill to the existing exploitative system.
Long live the fraternity of peoples! Long live socialism! Long live the Republic!
Down with capitalism! Down with imperialism!
>>2169588>>actual existing socialist being broken by 25 years of imprisonment and torture by a NATO country>Then we will see if the movement he championed continues beyond himself of if they were turned into a tool of NATO as well ;)<PKK disbands shortly after NATO stooge, Turkey backed moderate pisslamist headchopper takes charge of Syria.I guess we did find out, afterall huh?
Better luck next time lel
>>2265163You write so many words, yet you fail to see how their disbandment now affirms they are/were wilful instruments of the US imperialist project.
This is coming from someone who has been keeping an eye on the Region since 2014, and knows people who went their to die for it. We got bamboozled. It's nothing but opportunism all the way down.
>>2265588That's what I mean. The SDF opptunitistically utilised American support and now the Western Imperialists have no more use in supporting them. Their new plaything is the
Islamist liberal transitional government, which will obey Turkeys orders and consume the confederalists and socialists there. Potentially with Turkish help also.
>>2266103This moron thought the islamist transitionary government would respect their autonomy and allow them to play a role in the new syria. When they didn't a couple of months ago they "protested".
I don't know what they were thinking.
>>2266123I support "Rojava" but certainly not its weak leadership and bourgeois half-assed class collaborationist political system.
They should be committed to insuring the defence of their progressive revolution from the reactionary government. They should know they will be backstabbed, but somehow their leaders don't.
I have many gripes with Democratic Confederalism. But it would be a shame for what has been built to be crushed. I hope for the best but fear the worst.
>>2265494melon seller?
>>2265192lmao, this fucking cunt celebrating this while pakistan is the fucking craddle of terrorism.
>>2265181look at the moron who keeps throwing wall texts no one cares to keep pretending a failed ideology has some meaning in the current world events.
remember, keep jerking off your wobbly androginous blob called lindsay graham, owner of the only oil company who owns your precious kurds, paying them crumbs. he surely will give you
socialism confederalism, alongside isreal.
>>2216833why wouldn't I? they decided to be a proxy for the US in the name of something you pretend to defend, helping to destroy a very stable country, gaslighting you all for something they will never do or have.
>>2216833ah, yes, Imperalist Syria reached fascism. your love to appeal to "rRRrrrRRrRRrEeeEviIiiIsSSHhIiiOnisshHUums" is pathetic, radlib.
>>2217140>>2217157I am not that guy. what? do you think that on earth there only one guy who can hate a group that's obviously a proxy for crescent oil? touch grass, no real communist outside your echo chamber loves the idea of someone who stopped quoting Marx got to be the leader of something he will never do and be.
>>2266426I hate all kochinskyites that gave some excuses to a bunch of larpers of
socialism confederalism.
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