/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2266794
>This is why instead of "progress" and "change" we often see Marxists talk about what is "historically necessary." Historically necessary means something very specific. It doesn't mean "good." For example Stalin said slavery was historically necessary to pull humans out of primitive communism:
You can only say something was historically necessary in retrospect, and only in that it's necessary to produce the present as it is. It's essentially the same logic as the meme about time traveling and moving a chair that causes the present to become radically different. The point is that the specifics of a given time are what determines the future afterward. It does not mean that there's a correct thing that must happen. It's the same issue of being tautological and sterile, because everything that happened in the past was historically necessary to produce the present that we have. It has no predictive power as an "is" nor instructive power as an "ought."

I don't agree with immigration policies for the west or think immigration can end well under capitalism if Asians and Indians are killed in Africa too, but the soc dems globally walking back on being pro migration and trying to out chud rightoids is a giant red flag that these people could never be trusted to hold a serious belief in economic policies either.

Is the Holodomor generally accepted to be a thing that occurred here?

>>2268615
Depends on what you mean by "Holodomor", and "occured" and even then its probably split 30-70 right down the middle.

>>2268615
Its believed that a famine happened but not not a targeted one.

>>2268615
the famine, yes. the holodomor genocide is not accepted to be a thing anywhere. the academia largely rejects it, with only fringes still supporting it today. nazis are obsessed with it for some reason.

>>2268678
Its because its alliterative to Holocaust and makes their enemies looks at least as bad as they do.

>>2268615
Not really as famine was widespread across USSR instead of some kind of targeted ethnic genocide.

How come governments police to protests ?
Like genuinly whats the point why do they just not let it happen and avoid police violence

>>2184368
Alunya was made 2015ish, I think.

Italian Left Communists are opposed to national liberation movements on the basis that they believe they believe national liberation conflicts are bourgeois revolutions that lead to the development of chauvinistic, right wing nationalism, and also on the basis that they believe it splits the working class into factions for and against the national liberation struggle, when there needs to be a united working class focused on the need for a class war, a proletariat revolution instead.

With that said, what do they believe in regards to the Israel - Palestine conflict? In regards to the ongoing genocide? Because I haven't heard a single on of them speak up about it.
Maybe I've just missed it somehow, but do left coms actually support the liberation of Palestine? In what sense? Or what do they propose in place of it?

>>2267893
>slavery must happen? theres no other way?
it certainly seems so, given so many different human societies everywhere had them. The social reality of early agricultural production seem to lead everyone to slave societies.

>because you are saying that its inevitable, therefore its better for it to happen now than later
thats your judgement, saying it is an inevitable stage of social development (and only for agricultural societies, some human communities stayed hunter gatherers and didnt need slaves, but when agriculture is developed then those agricultural societies eventually take over) is not the same as saying it is better now than later, thats your morale speaking, and morality isnt an objective fact

>right, so progress is "change"
explicitly not, and I even provided you with a counter example with a regression. Similarly, USSR falling and those place going back to capitalism is also a regression.

>the value of "progress"
its not about its "value", its a reality of a historical process, a chemical reaction naturally "progress" but it has no inherent "value"
why we associate progress with good is because communist think for most life would be better under communism than capitalism, hence why progressing beyond capitalism is seen as valuable, but you can make the argument that progressing toward agricultural society at all was disastrous. The thing is it is too late for going back, its not how history of human societies work.

>so why has it failed
by many metrics it hasnt failed at all, what with creating superpowers from feudal shitholes, lifting millions out poverty and ignorance, carrying out massive industrialization, ending colonialism, but the conditions were apparently not good enough yet for the success to last. First french republic was also destroyed at first.
But just compare india and china today to see how effective and successful the communist model still is.

>all you are doing is making "progress" synonymous with goodness for rhetorics sake, not as a true inquiry.
not at all, its not just rhetoric, I sincerely believe implementing socialism would be for the benefit of the vast majority, and thus that all progress towards it is good.

>if progress is change
already addressed, thats just your strawman

>where is the freedom
I agree and thats why I called it a liberal idealist view. But technology certainly has the potential to improve lives (and in some case, like medicine, objectively does improve lives already), its just even more dependent on social progress and organization (hence why we pursue communism)

>we work longer today than serfs ever did
to be fair, farm work was also back breaking, and their food was kinda shit and not very varied, and they were even more at the mercy of their master. But yes, capitalist society still suck.

>>2268615
no

>>2268823
to discourage protesters, challenge their resolve, train their security forces, and accuse them of violence themselves, and also allow arrests and prosecutions

>>2269731
>they believe national liberation conflicts are bourgeois revolutions
yes they mostly are (although many also had strong socialist elements), but this is still usually a net improvement for the people

>lead to the development of chauvinistic, right wing nationalism
theyd rather have a bunch of explicit comprador doing the bidding of their colonial masters?

>it splits the working class into factions for and against the national liberation struggle
sounds retarded, nothing is as uniting politically as national liberation struggles

>there needs to be a united working class focused on the need for a class war, a proletariat revolution
trying to get this without doing national liberation when its also needed is doomed to failure. You need to sell both.

cant speak for italians leftcoms, but most communist would agree national liberation is a needed first step

Good books that show the reality of living under communism? I mean non fiction books that show how was life under communism, without much moral judgment, just straight facts.

>>2270169
You raise a good point. Most Italian LeftComs oppose national liberation on the basis that it's a type of bourgeois revolution, but they ignore even a bourgeois revolution can lead to greatly improved conditions, and they ignore that many national liberation movements are left wing or socialist to a degree even of not full on communists.
It's like they're unable of comprehending that you can have both national liberation and class struggle simultaneously, they think it's a one or the other choose which is a false dichotomy.

Piracy is leftist, yes?

>>2270946
i dont see how it has political content
ethically however, you can make the case

>>2270946
>I’m a leftist
>I pirate
piracy is leftist, yes

How can self employed workers be petit porkies when they dont exploit anyones labor? They get 100% of the surplus value themselves.

>>2271016
if they make profit, they exploit their own labour

how does this work?

>>2271229
what do you think would happen if a third world country, geographically close to india and the strait of malacca, tied to the BRI, declared a proletarian dictatorship?

>>2271242
So what they're just not allowed to be socialist?

>>2271242
So the coward theory vs actually just socdems theory. A lil bit of both really.

What happened to the Cockshott AMA, did he pussy out? I wanted to ask him if he'd fuck Buck Angel or Bailey Jay

>>2276629
You missed it
>>2276372

I tried reading theory, and some of it is fine, but some authors like to show off using lots of big fancy words for the hell of it, and complex terminology that makes me confused and also hurts my tiny little head.
How do I get smarter so I can read advanced, complex theory? Without feeling like i'm developing a migraine / seizure / falling asleep 3 pages deep?
Is there some kind of exercise I can do to increase my intellectual capacity?

>>2276729
use dictionaries. every time you want to get very-well versed in a topic, to the point of their respective professionals, without having a degree, pick dictionaries for such fields.
philosophy isn't that complicated when you get to know the words.
also, put the books in their historical context: Who are they addressing, what event are they addressing; that also works.

are salesmen, who make some base salary but also earn a commission per sale, proletarian? should salesmen unionize?

>>2276960
gonna repost those in the PDF thread if they aren't already there, thanks

Is market socialism a good idea and it is compatiable with communism?

>>2280683
Lenin himself created it so its in line with Marxism-Leninism.

I remember reading about an african revolutionary that got killed by southafrican mercs in a movie like scene, of finding him with pot in the attempted coup. Can't remember who it was.

If you're American, do you not have a moral obligation to the millions of people who will be killed by your country to quit your job and deprive the country of revenue and labor? If you exist within a system of evil, how are you not just morally obligated to withdraw from it? It is just objectively true that whatever good you can do within such a system is dwarfed by the good done through ending it. How do you get around this incontrovertible fact?

Where can I post porn on this board?

Reminder that wannabe "communists" still live in the 18th century talking about coal forgetting to update their shit

>>2323767
>not taking the fusion pill
PVs are nice and all but at this point, with how the triple product is increasing, it's only a matter of time until nukechads have their day in the sun

>>2324991
Tell me more, what is that? Any article?

>>2324991
until fusion is actually generating a reasonable amount of energy for a reasonable cost, it's not worth thinking about in terms of public policy, full steam ahead with solar/wind for now

>>2325049
I can't really summarize the progress of an entire field in a single article
>>2325061
true, true. still, I'm optimistic

your hottest takes on picrel

>>2332817
his/pol specific thoughts interest me more than random ones

Genuine question on the topic of settler colonialism
what happens to the people born in the country with no fault of their own? make them pay reparations? Israel seems like a special example where the majority people there are zionist scum but what about the ones who arent zionists?

>>2335623
shall be decided in a free Palestine, and as Palestinians see fit

>>2325114
There is no progress. You just parroted some ifuckinglovescience tier shit used to persuade some government official for gibs you don't understand

What is to be done about the global growth of the middle class? The middle loves chuddery, how is this remedied?

>>2348915
Get the 1% wealth and allocate it to miserable.
Get 11% wealth and allocate to poor
If anyone disagrees, they get vacations to Siberia.
Problems werent

>>2350888
No you're thinking too far ahead. I mean like in order to get to the part where a socialist government is in power. Middle classoids are a barrier to achieving that. How is this barrier of middle class interests confronted? Especially in developed countries where the middle class is a majority.

I see people say that zionism is anti-semetic, but Judaism seems explicitly zionist. The Torah is explicitly zionist. Name some jewish groups, sects, or people that engage in effective violent abolition of the zionist entity.