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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Previous thread: >>1946727

Dump all the seemingly pointless, dubious, and frivolous questions that don't deserve their own shitty threads.

Got a question that's probably been asked a million times before? You're in the right landfill, buddy. Post it here.

Threads that otherwise might go in here will eventually find themselves become merged to this thread.

Why do people feel the need to start a new thread to ask a stupid question when this exists?
And why does that shit happen more during burger hours?

>>2177927
MOMMY I DONT DO RULE I WANT TO SAY GUCK AND ZHIT I AM ADULT MOMMYE

IF SUCKCIALISM IS SO DOG WHAI CUBAAAA HOMOFASHA!!!!??

sorry tankanon have a nice day

Do you guys think it would be a viable strategy to destroy the far right by fanning the flames of the most retarded antivaxx takes imaginable? None of the antivaxxers will ever be able to admit that their "persecution" was for nothing so they NEED to believe the depopulation Bill Gates bullshit. "I'm so glad the vaxx will soon kill everyone I disagree with. I can stay home and play video games for the rest of my life and inherent the earth!" And "The vaxxies all betrayed me by taking a shot. They all deserve to die and will shed on me if I get too close!" Are really useful for rightwing retards to believe because those beliefs encourage them to be inactive and to alienate others. An inactive and isolated fascist is almost as good as a dead fascist.

>>2178176
>Do you guys think it would be a viable strategy to destroy the far right by fanning the flames of the most retarded antivaxx takes imaginable?
No because reactionaries aren't the only ones who fall for antivaxx shit (for instance plenty of working class people are skeptical of vaccines in the USA either out of miseducation, or out of real experience of discrimination, like the Tuskegee Experiments), and the people who fall for antivaxx shit aren't the only ones who suffer for it (immunocompromised children not old enough to form opinions about vaccines come to mind)
> None of the antivaxxers will ever be able to admit that their "persecution" was for nothing so they NEED to believe the depopulation Bill Gates bullshit. "I'm so glad the vaxx will soon kill everyone I disagree with. I can stay home and play video games for the rest of my life and inherent the earth!" And "The vaxxies all betrayed me by taking a shot. They all deserve to die and will shed on me if I get too close!" Are really useful for rightwing retards to believe because those beliefs encourage them to be inactive and to alienate others. An inactive and isolated fascist is almost as good as a dead fascist.
reactoids are paper tigers whether or not they believe stupid shit

When will the real estate prices drop, if ever?

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>>2178576
You know what to do.

Were the Nazis good actually because they were anti-American?

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>>2179221
I wouldn't call them anti-American. They drew a lot of inspiration for lebensraum from manifest destiny and a lot of inspiration for their racial policies from Jim Crow and American Slavery. They saw America as corrupted by Jews and POC, but for the most part they didn't ramp up that rhetoric until they were at war with the USA and UK. They were primarily anti-Communist, ethnocentric, expansionist. Anti-Americanism was a situational thing for them rather than a central ideological position. This famous poster for example was from 1944 towards the end of the war.

Marx said that labour produces value because otherwise you are just trading objects. It's is the creative application of labour to objects that gives them their value, correct?

So in that case why do capitalists always come up with ways to automate production? If labour is the source of value why do they want to get rid of lots of it? Does it come down to wages?

>>2180053
>Marx said that labour produces value
the value of a commodity is the socially necessary labor time required to produce it. if someone sits around doing useless labor all day they do not produce value or surplus value. furthermore if they use antiquated methods to produce something that is already produced with equal quality using automated methods, they are not going to make very much money because they are not using the average methods for their society at its current level of development.

>it is the creative application of labour to objects that gives them their value correct.

wrong

>So in that case why do capitalists always come up with ways to automate production?

capitalists don't "come up with ways to automate production." professionals do. scientists. engineers. mathematicians.

> If labour is the source of value

a utopian slogan marx fought against

marx did not believe that "labor is the source of all value" in the simplistic sense that labor alone creates value. Instead, he argued that abstract collective labor in its relationship to the means of production production of commodities within a capitalist system produces value and surplus value, which is appropriated by the capitalist . marx said that the value of a commodity is determined by the socially necessary labor time required to produce it, which accounts for the labor power used in its production. He also distinguishes between labor power, which is the capacity to labor sold as a special commodity by the worker to the capitalist, and labor itself. he also emphasized the exploitation inherent in capitalism, where the value created by workers exceeds the wages they receive. this difference is surplus value, and it is extracted by capitalists as profit. marx recognized labor as central to value but highlighted the exploitative dynamics and social relations of production that shape how value is appropriated.

>why do they want to get rid of lots of it?

a machine is a product of past labor AKA "dead labor." therefore automating jobs is not getting rid of labor. it is simply replacing living labor (what marx calls variable capital) with "dead" labor (what marx calls "constant capital").

>Does it come down to wages

Yes. If you own means of production, you own conditions of production. if a bunch of workers make a machine, you pay them a wage, but you as the capitalist get to own it, and all products produced with that machine in the future belong to you. the problem arises when the socially necessary labor time required to produce a commdity drops, making it vastly cheaper. orthodox economics calls this a problem of oversupply. marx calls this a crisis of overproduction, because he emphasizes labor time rather than supply

I'm oversimplifying but this is the gist.

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>>2177902
Question: why does the mascot of leftypol look like a character from dungeon meshi? Who was first?

whats 9 + 10

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from a strategic point of view, as russia and/or a communist, should i support the Islamic republic of Afeghanistan or the islamic emirate of afeghanistan?

>>2177902
Can fascism be beneficial or even desirable in the international struggle against imperialism? Should leftist join these organizations or just form united fronts with them?

>>2180081
dungeon meshi is from 2014
leftypol is from 2013
but idk when alunya was made

>>2184362
read rajani palme dutt's book "fascism and social revolution"

short answer: no, no

Is it even possible to have collective ownership without proletarian democracy?

>>2180528
The proletariat of both nations

>>2180072
>capitalists don't "come up with ways to automate production." professionals do. scientists. engineers. mathematicians.


this is needlessly nitpicking. Capitalists seek automation in order to reduce the wage bill

>>2186320
possible? probably not. Sustainable? definitely not. collective ownership without proletarian democracy would get rolled back so fast.

>>2186582
>Capitalists seek automation in order to reduce the wage bill
yes, of course
>this is needlessly nitpicking.
I think anon was making the distinction because capitalists are often credited as Tony Stark style mavericks and geniuses who single-handedly do the technological labor required to automate things themselves. Like they just walk onto the factor floor, do a bunch of wizard math in their heads like gif related, and then conclude from the sheer force of their own giant brain what kind of changes need to be made. The apologetic nature of that kind of rhetoric needs to be dismantled. Capitalists seek automation to reduce the wage bill but they aren't responsible for the labor of innovation that makes it possible. Also the reduction in the wage bill is offset by the reduced price of commodities.

I'm pretty new and have been reading a lot of theory recently. I know there's a debate amongst leftists in regards state ownership VS worker's self management.
Anyway, I recently came across both Engels and Mao writing what amounts to the same point - both calling for state ownership as an intermediary stage until the right conditions are met for direct worker's self ownership.
But neither really goes into detail about *when* the time will be right.
So, when exactly should the transition from state ownership to worker's self management occur?
How exactly should the proletarian movement ensure that this transition does occur, and how can they accurately assess the right time for it?

>>2187045
The key conditions for readiness include advanced economic development, a skilled and educated workforce, political stability, and the dissolution of class divisions. These factors ensure a robust foundation for self-management without risking economic collapse or social instability. To ensure this transition, the proletarian movement should prioritize education, fostering understanding of self-management principles among workers. Implementing pilot programs within the state framework can serve as practical experiments for self-management. Simultaneously, building a strong socialist economy is crucial to support the transition without destabilizing the system. Assessing the right time involves a balance between state planning and worker autonomy, utilizing public participation and transparent dialogue to evaluate readiness. The approach must remain flexible, considering historical and economic contexts, as each society may progress differently.

>>2187053
Thanks anon, appreciated

Is “pussy” or “vagina” considered an insult regarding “weakness” in Russian and Soviet culture as it is in the west? If you call someone a pussy in the west, it’s implied that they’re weak or pathetic, which makes no sense because a vagina is actually pretty tough compared to a testicle. A vagina has to expand for a baby. A testicle doesn’t have to do that and it gets injured very easily.
I was wondering because women in the USSR were tough and strong and the stereotype may not be as prevalent.

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I have not been on leftypol in years. When I used to browse I can remember there was always a pinned thread on the top of the catalog which was like a Required/Recommended reading list of sorts. There doesn't seem to be anything like this now.
If anyone can remember this, please direct me to an archive of it or something like it.

Kind of looking for readings as well in general.

>>2187169
we dont read anymore grandpa. We watch youtube videos and listen to podcasts.

>>2187169
Get with the program

>>2187185
>mfw there's a leftypol tiktok

>>2187169
the political economy thread has a reading list. >>>/edu/ has readling lists and a PDF thread

>>2187216
Thanks for helping this geriatric find his way in this world again

>>2187154
>If you call someone a pussy in the west,
Only in angoloid cultures.

Soviet bros… I'm not feeling to well…

How could the bolsheviks being some tyrannical against the fucking workers themselves? What the fuck?

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Lol, I recall posting the same video here like half a year ago.

>>2188141
Fuck, why did Trump have to restore your funding?

>>2188162
uyghur, learn to have open minded instead of screeching that everyone that doesn't support your pet worldview is somehow a glowie or something.

ActBlue sure is desperate

nice argument, but unfortunately you activated my trap card 'they had no other choice because of unspecified material conditions'

>>2188171
Damn, those "unspecified material conditions" really are something else to propel the bolshevik to kill their own workers and peasants.

>>2188174
Do you consider cops to be workers?

>>2188141
Almost like Lenin was onto something when he surmised they had created in their country state capitalism and leftcoms had a good point in their trenchant critiques of Stalin’s redefinition of “socialism” hence why Stalinoids/MLoids have no actual rebuttal other than to say for a few decades Stalinoids could shut up most communists that weren’t ass kissing sycophants

>>2188179
Based, why do we side with the slaves (antiquarian class) in concentration camps like Auschwitz and Dacau instead of the proletarian guards who helped run the camp?

>>2188162
>MLoids so brain broken their immediate response to criticism is to defend fascists
Speaks for itself

Because Soviets at the time were a joke and proles were in no way knowledgable nor organized enough to guide the nation, the Soviets should have primacy under the Khruschev-Brezhnev era as they were mature enough for leadership then.

>>2188212
Why not already under the post WW2 Stalin administration?

>>2188189
>analogy is my passion

>>2188192
>muh MLoids
>muh fascist.
USAID is fascist, benefitiaries are fascist trump was anti-fascist in defunding it and fascist for Re-instituting it.

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who isn't socialist these days, amirite?

>>2188162
good question. because he's not JDPON

What is the difference between social liberalism and social democracy? Is it just a question of magnitude?

>>2188141
Leninoids dont really care about proletarians they have other utopian goals in mind like centrally planned slavery.

>>2190900
hi langley

>>2190901
Hi anti-proletarian slavery enjoyer.

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>>2190908
>you are LE GLOWUYGHUR if you are an actual communist
Pathetic.

>>2190912
>complains about "Leninoids" apropos of nothing
>claims "Leninoids" support slavery
>claims to be the on true communist
sounds like a divide and conquer hypersectarian COINTELPRO tactic

I'm looking for short easy to read leftist books
Is Blackshirts and Reds a decent book?
I like Mark Fisher's Capitalist Realism but haven't really read much else

Should Jewish bourgeoisie be appropriated to a larger degree due to their complicity in the Gaza Genocide.

>>2199102
yes provided they have Israeli citizenship

>>2199105
The ones without citizenship still support the genocide with the exception of a minuscule minority.

>>2199109
if they "support" it with the same support multipolarist here sends towards the third world (litteral thoughts and prayers) it doesn't count

Does socialism retain or abolish capitalists?

>>2199102
Absolutely

>>2199102
obvious bait question. they should be appropriated to the same extent as every other bourgeoisie, that extent being 100%

>>2199109
proof it's a bait question

>>2199109
Yeah but their American Jews so they get reeducation till they knock off the zionism. Theyll be forced to watch Seth Rogan movies and jon stewart till re them back to appropriate American jewish behavior. Same with the christian zionist. Idk what to do with them, maybe 10 hours of loopimg mlk speeches because zionisim is the least thing wrong with them.

Mods this is a shit.

>>2199259
christian zionists will be forced to watch veggietales

>>2199259
Majority of Jews in Europe support the genocide

>>2199498
majority of people in general in europe do. it's a byproduct of the imperialist and settler colonial propaganda blasted into people's brains 24/7. it's not a genetic characteristic but a superstructural outcome of an economic base

someone posted a pdf recently about deforestation and it had a title like "like warfare"

anyone got it?

>>2199259
>maybe 10 hours of loopimg mlk speeches because zionisim is the least thing wrong with them
MLK was himself a Zionist unfortunately, but I think that was largely out of ignorance of the condition of the Palestinians.

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>>2199855
imagine being a historical materialist instead of a racial idealist, couldn't be me

Will i get kicked out of my student union of my university (UBA-Buenos aires, public uni.) and ruin me prospects of joining ,trough it, a formal (participates in elections) party, if I reveal I am (which I AM, irl) a Pol Pot genocide-denialist\ PRO Khmer Rouge, extremely supportive of PCP-SL (shining path), and a Jim Jones CIA-massacre non-suicide theses supporter?
serious replies only.

>>2204254
your question is too specific, to the point of nobody else here having the experience you're having, and also it is too irrelevant. If you're worried saying something will get you kicked out, just don't say it. Just be normal and work with people on matters that are important to everyone in the group rather than bringing up fringe irrelevant shit .

What's the best book to get into continental philosophy?

>>2204308
>continental philosophy
Doesn't mean anything.

>>2204310
Isn't a umbrella term for a bunch of continental european philosophical tradition? So, how do I get into ?

>>2204308
Kant critique of pure reason

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How true is this?

>>2206503
Its dogmatism and this incorrect

>>2206508
Its certainly a simplification but care to explain why its dogmatism and wrong?

>>2206557
It has no basis in anything. I don't know who invented this definition of communism and socialism, and defined them as things to be imposed on society, rather than a result of socialist engineering of society.

>>2206503
it's mostly correct

>>2206503
it's a good shorthand but depending on the conversation deploying it will get you called an ultra

Why did Lenin study hegels science of logic?

Do people who eat poop and lick asshole and drink piss not get sick? How come?

If one isnt distinguishing whether he is talking about a concept or a thing, does that mean one's thinking is metaphysical? Is majority's thinking metaphysical?

>>2204308
Start with the Greeks

Good leftist podcasts? Theory and philosophy oriented. I already listen to the program but I find some of it too infantile. I like radio war nerd.

>>2206615
Depends on which diseases the other person was carrying or not to begin with.

>>2206615
Eating ass is actually brilliant for your immune system.
Since I've started eating ass I've noticed a miraculous improvement in my gastrointestinal system. No more cramping, diarrhoea, constipation or nausea. There was probably an imbalance of probiotic bacteria in my colon. Fecal transplants are now a medical therapy for numerous GI disorders.

I would encourage everyone to eat ass regularly. It could change your life.

What do warehouse workers produce?

>>2206948
West Wing Thing and The Dollop

>>2207061
Commodities? Inputs have to actually be brought to a physical location to be finished


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