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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


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Previous thread: >>1946727

Dump all the seemingly pointless, dubious, and frivolous questions that don't deserve their own shitty threads.

Got a question that's probably been asked a million times before? You're in the right landfill, buddy. Post it here.

Threads that otherwise might go in here will eventually find themselves become merged to this thread.

Why do people feel the need to start a new thread to ask a stupid question when this exists?
And why does that shit happen more during burger hours?

>>2177927
MOMMY I DONT DO RULE I WANT TO SAY GUCK AND ZHIT I AM ADULT MOMMYE

IF SUCKCIALISM IS SO DOG WHAI CUBAAAA HOMOFASHA!!!!??

sorry tankanon have a nice day

Do you guys think it would be a viable strategy to destroy the far right by fanning the flames of the most retarded antivaxx takes imaginable? None of the antivaxxers will ever be able to admit that their "persecution" was for nothing so they NEED to believe the depopulation Bill Gates bullshit. "I'm so glad the vaxx will soon kill everyone I disagree with. I can stay home and play video games for the rest of my life and inherent the earth!" And "The vaxxies all betrayed me by taking a shot. They all deserve to die and will shed on me if I get too close!" Are really useful for rightwing retards to believe because those beliefs encourage them to be inactive and to alienate others. An inactive and isolated fascist is almost as good as a dead fascist.

>>2178176
>Do you guys think it would be a viable strategy to destroy the far right by fanning the flames of the most retarded antivaxx takes imaginable?
No because reactionaries aren't the only ones who fall for antivaxx shit (for instance plenty of working class people are skeptical of vaccines in the USA either out of miseducation, or out of real experience of discrimination, like the Tuskegee Experiments), and the people who fall for antivaxx shit aren't the only ones who suffer for it (immunocompromised children not old enough to form opinions about vaccines come to mind)
> None of the antivaxxers will ever be able to admit that their "persecution" was for nothing so they NEED to believe the depopulation Bill Gates bullshit. "I'm so glad the vaxx will soon kill everyone I disagree with. I can stay home and play video games for the rest of my life and inherent the earth!" And "The vaxxies all betrayed me by taking a shot. They all deserve to die and will shed on me if I get too close!" Are really useful for rightwing retards to believe because those beliefs encourage them to be inactive and to alienate others. An inactive and isolated fascist is almost as good as a dead fascist.
reactoids are paper tigers whether or not they believe stupid shit

When will the real estate prices drop, if ever?

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>>2178576
You know what to do.

Were the Nazis good actually because they were anti-American?

File: 1741300457278.png (8.66 MB, 1564x2106, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2179221
I wouldn't call them anti-American. They drew a lot of inspiration for lebensraum from manifest destiny and a lot of inspiration for their racial policies from Jim Crow and American Slavery. They saw America as corrupted by Jews and POC, but for the most part they didn't ramp up that rhetoric until they were at war with the USA and UK. They were primarily anti-Communist, ethnocentric, expansionist. Anti-Americanism was a situational thing for them rather than a central ideological position. This famous poster for example was from 1944 towards the end of the war.

Marx said that labour produces value because otherwise you are just trading objects. It's is the creative application of labour to objects that gives them their value, correct?

So in that case why do capitalists always come up with ways to automate production? If labour is the source of value why do they want to get rid of lots of it? Does it come down to wages?

>>2180053
>Marx said that labour produces value
the value of a commodity is the socially necessary labor time required to produce it. if someone sits around doing useless labor all day they do not produce value or surplus value. furthermore if they use antiquated methods to produce something that is already produced with equal quality using automated methods, they are not going to make very much money because they are not using the average methods for their society at its current level of development.

>it is the creative application of labour to objects that gives them their value correct.

wrong

>So in that case why do capitalists always come up with ways to automate production?

capitalists don't "come up with ways to automate production." professionals do. scientists. engineers. mathematicians.

> If labour is the source of value

a utopian slogan marx fought against

marx did not believe that "labor is the source of all value" in the simplistic sense that labor alone creates value. Instead, he argued that abstract collective labor in its relationship to the means of production production of commodities within a capitalist system produces value and surplus value, which is appropriated by the capitalist . marx said that the value of a commodity is determined by the socially necessary labor time required to produce it, which accounts for the labor power used in its production. He also distinguishes between labor power, which is the capacity to labor sold as a special commodity by the worker to the capitalist, and labor itself. he also emphasized the exploitation inherent in capitalism, where the value created by workers exceeds the wages they receive. this difference is surplus value, and it is extracted by capitalists as profit. marx recognized labor as central to value but highlighted the exploitative dynamics and social relations of production that shape how value is appropriated.

>why do they want to get rid of lots of it?

a machine is a product of past labor AKA "dead labor." therefore automating jobs is not getting rid of labor. it is simply replacing living labor (what marx calls variable capital) with "dead" labor (what marx calls "constant capital").

>Does it come down to wages

Yes. If you own means of production, you own conditions of production. if a bunch of workers make a machine, you pay them a wage, but you as the capitalist get to own it, and all products produced with that machine in the future belong to you. the problem arises when the socially necessary labor time required to produce a commdity drops, making it vastly cheaper. orthodox economics calls this a problem of oversupply. marx calls this a crisis of overproduction, because he emphasizes labor time rather than supply

I'm oversimplifying but this is the gist.

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>>2177902
Question: why does the mascot of leftypol look like a character from dungeon meshi? Who was first?

whats 9 + 10

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from a strategic point of view, as russia and/or a communist, should i support the Islamic republic of Afeghanistan or the islamic emirate of afeghanistan?

>>2177902
Can fascism be beneficial or even desirable in the international struggle against imperialism? Should leftist join these organizations or just form united fronts with them?

>>2180081
dungeon meshi is from 2014
leftypol is from 2013
but idk when alunya was made

>>2184362
read rajani palme dutt's book "fascism and social revolution"

short answer: no, no

Is it even possible to have collective ownership without proletarian democracy?

>>2180528
The proletariat of both nations

>>2180072
>capitalists don't "come up with ways to automate production." professionals do. scientists. engineers. mathematicians.


this is needlessly nitpicking. Capitalists seek automation in order to reduce the wage bill

>>2186320
possible? probably not. Sustainable? definitely not. collective ownership without proletarian democracy would get rolled back so fast.

>>2186582
>Capitalists seek automation in order to reduce the wage bill
yes, of course
>this is needlessly nitpicking.
I think anon was making the distinction because capitalists are often credited as Tony Stark style mavericks and geniuses who single-handedly do the technological labor required to automate things themselves. Like they just walk onto the factor floor, do a bunch of wizard math in their heads like gif related, and then conclude from the sheer force of their own giant brain what kind of changes need to be made. The apologetic nature of that kind of rhetoric needs to be dismantled. Capitalists seek automation to reduce the wage bill but they aren't responsible for the labor of innovation that makes it possible. Also the reduction in the wage bill is offset by the reduced price of commodities.

I'm pretty new and have been reading a lot of theory recently. I know there's a debate amongst leftists in regards state ownership VS worker's self management.
Anyway, I recently came across both Engels and Mao writing what amounts to the same point - both calling for state ownership as an intermediary stage until the right conditions are met for direct worker's self ownership.
But neither really goes into detail about *when* the time will be right.
So, when exactly should the transition from state ownership to worker's self management occur?
How exactly should the proletarian movement ensure that this transition does occur, and how can they accurately assess the right time for it?

>>2187045
The key conditions for readiness include advanced economic development, a skilled and educated workforce, political stability, and the dissolution of class divisions. These factors ensure a robust foundation for self-management without risking economic collapse or social instability. To ensure this transition, the proletarian movement should prioritize education, fostering understanding of self-management principles among workers. Implementing pilot programs within the state framework can serve as practical experiments for self-management. Simultaneously, building a strong socialist economy is crucial to support the transition without destabilizing the system. Assessing the right time involves a balance between state planning and worker autonomy, utilizing public participation and transparent dialogue to evaluate readiness. The approach must remain flexible, considering historical and economic contexts, as each society may progress differently.

>>2187053
Thanks anon, appreciated

Is “pussy” or “vagina” considered an insult regarding “weakness” in Russian and Soviet culture as it is in the west? If you call someone a pussy in the west, it’s implied that they’re weak or pathetic, which makes no sense because a vagina is actually pretty tough compared to a testicle. A vagina has to expand for a baby. A testicle doesn’t have to do that and it gets injured very easily.
I was wondering because women in the USSR were tough and strong and the stereotype may not be as prevalent.

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I have not been on leftypol in years. When I used to browse I can remember there was always a pinned thread on the top of the catalog which was like a Required/Recommended reading list of sorts. There doesn't seem to be anything like this now.
If anyone can remember this, please direct me to an archive of it or something like it.

Kind of looking for readings as well in general.

>>2187169
we dont read anymore grandpa. We watch youtube videos and listen to podcasts.

>>2187169
Get with the program

>>2187185
>mfw there's a leftypol tiktok

>>2187169
the political economy thread has a reading list. >>>/edu/ has readling lists and a PDF thread

>>2187216
Thanks for helping this geriatric find his way in this world again

>>2187154
>If you call someone a pussy in the west,
Only in angoloid cultures.

Soviet bros… I'm not feeling to well…

How could the bolsheviks being some tyrannical against the fucking workers themselves? What the fuck?

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Lol, I recall posting the same video here like half a year ago.

>>2188141
Fuck, why did Trump have to restore your funding?

>>2188162
uyghur, learn to have open minded instead of screeching that everyone that doesn't support your pet worldview is somehow a glowie or something.

nice argument, but unfortunately you activated my trap card 'they had no other choice because of unspecified material conditions'

>>2188171
Damn, those "unspecified material conditions" really are something else to propel the bolshevik to kill their own workers and peasants.

>>2188174
Do you consider cops to be workers?

>>2188141
Almost like Lenin was onto something when he surmised they had created in their country state capitalism and leftcoms had a good point in their trenchant critiques of Stalin’s redefinition of “socialism” hence why Stalinoids/MLoids have no actual rebuttal other than to say for a few decades Stalinoids could shut up most communists that weren’t ass kissing sycophants

>>2188179
Based, why do we side with the slaves (antiquarian class) in concentration camps like Auschwitz and Dacau instead of the proletarian guards who helped run the camp?

>>2188162
>MLoids so brain broken their immediate response to criticism is to defend fascists
Speaks for itself

Because Soviets at the time were a joke and proles were in no way knowledgable nor organized enough to guide the nation, the Soviets should have primacy under the Khruschev-Brezhnev era as they were mature enough for leadership then.

>>2188212
Why not already under the post WW2 Stalin administration?

>>2188189
>analogy is my passion

>>2188192
>muh MLoids
>muh fascist.
USAID is fascist, benefitiaries are fascist trump was anti-fascist in defunding it and fascist for Re-instituting it.

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who isn't socialist these days, amirite?

>>2188162
good question. because he's not JDPON

What is the difference between social liberalism and social democracy? Is it just a question of magnitude?

>>2188141
Leninoids dont really care about proletarians they have other utopian goals in mind like centrally planned slavery.

>>2190900
hi langley

>>2190901
Hi anti-proletarian slavery enjoyer.

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>>2190908
>you are LE GLOWUYGHUR if you are an actual communist
Pathetic.

>>2190912
>complains about "Leninoids" apropos of nothing
>claims "Leninoids" support slavery
>claims to be the on true communist
sounds like a divide and conquer hypersectarian COINTELPRO tactic

I'm looking for short easy to read leftist books
Is Blackshirts and Reds a decent book?
I like Mark Fisher's Capitalist Realism but haven't really read much else

Should Jewish bourgeoisie be appropriated to a larger degree due to their complicity in the Gaza Genocide.

>>2199102
yes provided they have Israeli citizenship

>>2199105
The ones without citizenship still support the genocide with the exception of a minuscule minority.

>>2199109
if they "support" it with the same support multipolarist here sends towards the third world (litteral thoughts and prayers) it doesn't count

Does socialism retain or abolish capitalists?

>>2199102
Absolutely

>>2199102
obvious bait question. they should be appropriated to the same extent as every other bourgeoisie, that extent being 100%

>>2199109
proof it's a bait question

>>2199109
Yeah but their American Jews so they get reeducation till they knock off the zionism. Theyll be forced to watch Seth Rogan movies and jon stewart till re them back to appropriate American jewish behavior. Same with the christian zionist. Idk what to do with them, maybe 10 hours of loopimg mlk speeches because zionisim is the least thing wrong with them.

Mods this is a shit.

>>2199259
christian zionists will be forced to watch veggietales

>>2199259
Majority of Jews in Europe support the genocide

>>2199498
majority of people in general in europe do. it's a byproduct of the imperialist and settler colonial propaganda blasted into people's brains 24/7. it's not a genetic characteristic but a superstructural outcome of an economic base

someone posted a pdf recently about deforestation and it had a title like "like warfare"

anyone got it?

>>2199259
>maybe 10 hours of loopimg mlk speeches because zionisim is the least thing wrong with them
MLK was himself a Zionist unfortunately, but I think that was largely out of ignorance of the condition of the Palestinians.

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>>2199855
imagine being a historical materialist instead of a racial idealist, couldn't be me

Will i get kicked out of my student union of my university (UBA-Buenos aires, public uni.) and ruin me prospects of joining ,trough it, a formal (participates in elections) party, if I reveal I am (which I AM, irl) a Pol Pot genocide-denialist\ PRO Khmer Rouge, extremely supportive of PCP-SL (shining path), and a Jim Jones CIA-massacre non-suicide theses supporter?
serious replies only.

>>2204254
your question is too specific, to the point of nobody else here having the experience you're having, and also it is too irrelevant. If you're worried saying something will get you kicked out, just don't say it. Just be normal and work with people on matters that are important to everyone in the group rather than bringing up fringe irrelevant shit .

What's the best book to get into continental philosophy?

>>2204308
>continental philosophy
Doesn't mean anything.

>>2204310
Isn't a umbrella term for a bunch of continental european philosophical tradition? So, how do I get into ?

>>2204308
Kant critique of pure reason

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How true is this?

>>2206503
Its dogmatism and this incorrect

>>2206508
Its certainly a simplification but care to explain why its dogmatism and wrong?

>>2206557
It has no basis in anything. I don't know who invented this definition of communism and socialism, and defined them as things to be imposed on society, rather than a result of socialist engineering of society.

>>2206503
it's mostly correct

>>2206503
it's a good shorthand but depending on the conversation deploying it will get you called an ultra

Why did Lenin study hegels science of logic?

Do people who eat poop and lick asshole and drink piss not get sick? How come?

If one isnt distinguishing whether he is talking about a concept or a thing, does that mean one's thinking is metaphysical? Is majority's thinking metaphysical?

>>2204308
Start with the Greeks

Good leftist podcasts? Theory and philosophy oriented. I already listen to the program but I find some of it too infantile. I like radio war nerd.

>>2206615
Depends on which diseases the other person was carrying or not to begin with.

>>2206615
Eating ass is actually brilliant for your immune system.
Since I've started eating ass I've noticed a miraculous improvement in my gastrointestinal system. No more cramping, diarrhoea, constipation or nausea. There was probably an imbalance of probiotic bacteria in my colon. Fecal transplants are now a medical therapy for numerous GI disorders.

I would encourage everyone to eat ass regularly. It could change your life.

What do warehouse workers produce?

>>2206948
West Wing Thing and The Dollop

>>2207061
Commodities? Inputs have to actually be brought to a physical location to be finished

>>2207061
The commodity here is change in location.
<The result, whether men or goods are transported, is a change in their whereabouts. Yarn, for instance, may now be in India instead of in England, where it was produced.

<However, what the transportation industry sells is change of location. The useful effect is inseparably connected with the process of transportation, i.e., the productive process of the transport industry. Men and goods travel together with the means of transportation, and their traveling, this locomotion, constitutes the process of production effected by these means. The useful effect can be consumed only during this process of production. It does not exist as a utility different from this process, a use-thing which does not function as an article of commerce, does not circulate as a commodity, until after it has been produced. But the exchange-value of this useful effect is determined, like that of any other commodity, by the value of the elements of production (labour-power and means of production) consumed in it plus the surplus-value created by the surplus-labour of the labourers employed in transportation. This useful effect also entertains the very same relations to consumption that other commodities do. If it is consumed individually its value disappears during its consumption; if it is consumed productively so as to constitute by itself a stage in the production of the commodities being transported, its value is transferred as an additional value to the commodity itself.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1885-c2/ch01.htm

In general, a service is not really that different from a physical item. The service is just like a physical item that gets consumed immediately.

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What's up with LeftComs? What the hell is their deal???

Are specialists working class?

>>2210631
If they work for wages yes.

How do metallurgy workers strike if it means stopping the blast furnace that has to work nonstop?

Should government clinic doctors and nurses strike?

>>2210633
Everyone who receives a wage is working class then

What do warehouse workers produce?

>>2210659
Logistical services.

>>2210661
How do these make profit?

>>2210638
Yes. And?

>>2210664
By selling these necessary services? What products do truck drivers produce?

Are working class and proletariat same things?

>>2210661
I heard they produce space. How does that work?

At what point worker emigrants are considered as scabs?

>>2210850
>How does that work?
Extremely strong magnetic fields used to bend space and time itself.

Are aspirations bourgeosie?

Were jannisaries working class?

Were mercenaries working class?

>>2210856
No.
>>2210858
No.
>>2210859
Depends on the era.

>>2210853
When they enter company premises in an attempt to wage slave when there is a strike going on.

Is warehouse a means of production?

Does strike imply a cordon organized by workers to not let others in?

>>2210862
But they received wages no?

How can a soldier be defeatist in a modern war?

Is russia hastening the crisis by not becoming a colony for others?

Should russian people be defeatist? How can they do that?

Should workers resist the invasion of foreign armies? Will foreign army not do genocide if workers just sit home?

If warehouse workers are to strike and not let anyone in, are they considered thieves if merchendise inside was bought?

When it comes to trains, is it better to expect them to strike or is it better to block the railroads and not let any trains pass?

Should workers resist building of infrastructure like train depots and airports?

Is defeatism for soldiers only possible if there is a stalemate? Arw there any stalemates in current wars?

Is it a strike if bus drivers still drive without taking money?

Is it better to organize without using online means?

Is obscuring ones views advisable?

What is a vulgar mechanism? Is there a non-vulgar mechanism?

Was the practice of "sand bagging" by us troops during vietnam war defeatist?

Why is Bordiga a meme?

Is "tleatlerite" a valid and useful concept?

Should "native" workers be against the buying of land by foreigners?

Should workers oppose separatists?

Should one start an organization or usurp the existing ones?

Should workers oppose the "brain drain"?

Was there a famine during russian revolution times?

How will communists feed people during revolution?

Is dictatorship of proletariat a dictatorship of communist party?

What is the expected death toll of the revolution? What was the death toll of previous revolutions?

Is there no workers movement because of "bread and circusses"? Is "bread and circusses" an important factor?

wew lad


Should be called stupid questions thread instead

Is communism dead forever?

Is china world's last hope?

Were there strikes in gulags?

Is strike always good?

>>2210942
>stupid questions
No such thing.

Is there a point to strike if goverment will use lethal force?

Did communists have spies in police?

Was people breaking infrastructure in south africa an accelerationism?

Is tribalism dealt the same way nationalism is dealt with?

What is voluntarism and is it correct? Was khrushev a voluntarist or was it a slander?

>>2177902
Why? Just tell people to read

Does defeatism include aiding the foreign government?

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how to make my mentally ill bipolar gf love me again

>>2210636
You can ask that also about people running vital infrastructure: Should train drivers be allowed to strike? This could be solved by some positions being filled only with special employees of the state that have certain privileges and duties; so the people entering the field would know in advance about not having the right to strike and having perks like a secure income.

>>2210659
Repeating a question already answered here: >>2209050

>>2210853
A scab is a strike-breaker. Nationality is irrelevant.

>>2210865
Materials and tools are means of production. A machine making a product is a means of production. The machine casing is part of the machine, so it's part of the means of production. Picture a machine that needs protection from rain, so it's only used indoors. You can think of the building as providing the casing for the machine. This necessary casing is part of the means of production. Does this answer your question?

>>2210882
Depends.

>>2210886
In general stalling the delivery of something is not by itself considered theft.

>>2210905
It is a strike of sorts. Been done in Japan. (I have seen German journalists propose that to train drivers on strike. But the train drivers, ticket sellers, and ticket checkers are distinct jobs.)

>>2210920
Is preaching austerity to the masses while also calling them Hitler good strategy for socialists? Hmmmmmm I'm skeptical.

>>2210923
No.

>>2210924
Yes.

>>2210925
Depends.

>>2210933
Let me put it this way: We better be quick with the revolution. There is not much stored in the supermarkets. So if the deliveries stop they will run out in less than three days.

>>2206580
ok what's your definition of communism then? do workers control the means of production? is there money? is there a state? Ignore the question of whether it's "imposed" or "engineered" which the picture didn't touch on anyways.

>>2210104
We just love vibing dude

Was marx influenced by nietzsche?

Is gender acceleration real?

Is "genocide" a valid and useful concept?

How is communism going to make death not scary?

Is deleuze and guattari relevant to communism and communists?

someone is just filling up this thread with questions they asked chatGPT to dream up

>>2213048
Marx 1818-1883
Nietzsche 1844-1900
Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto when Nietzsche was 3 years old. He finished Capital Volume 1 when Nietzsche was 23.

What is people's war? Was ussr waging people's war against the invaders? What distinguishes people's war from other wars?

Was ussr doomed from the start?

>>2213104
probably some fag panicking about the economy and taking it out on us

Why do chuds obsess over circumcision?

Will there be transpeople in communism?

Is communism le spook?

Is this site's userbase mostly brics and latam esl ziggers?

Why doesnt wordfilter change zigger to zygha or zuygha?

What percent of this site's userbase are transhumanists?

Zuygharagua

>>2213141
100% including you.

>>2213135
No because it pleases my ego.

>>2213110
There was a small time window where actual soviet/worker power could have thriumphed over party oligarchy.

>>2213141
A solid 89% including myself.


How is working class going to know that the problem is the capitalism?

Does working class need to know anything?

>expecting cucked wagies to be a revolutionary force

Naive as fuck

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Had seen fashoids meming this book as a proof that "science confirms racism to be true once again!" Anyone can explain what "Erectus walks among us" is and who wrote it? Google surprisingly has no easy information about the author.

>>2187053
>and the dissolution of class divisions
But worker self-management is a prerequisite for dissolution of class divisions. Like, by definition of class used by Marx
No, seeds of new system have to be built within the old just as capitalism built up inside feudalism. In other words prefigurative politics

>>2214932
it's just essentialist schizobabble

Is there way to automatically filter out threads like /ukr/ and /usapol/ I hate having to do it manually every time a new thread is made.

>>2215164
leftypol.org##.thread:has(.subject:has-text(/\/ukr\//i))
leftypol.org##.thread:has(.subject:has-text(/\/usapol\//i))
leftypol.org##.thread:has(.subject:has-text(/\/uspol\//i))

>>2215171
how do you implement that?

>>2215242
ublock origin, ya pop it into "my filters."

>>2215310
thank you

>>2215651
Because so-called paper money is actually very sophisticated stuff and harder to fake.

>>2215651
paper money are documents of linen and flax that were originally redeemable for money-commodities like precious metals or monetary units made of precious metals like coins. The paper money bootstrapped itself into becoming money proper with the end of the gold standard by Nixon in 1971.

>>2215692
due to inflation a dollar is pretty small. they're discontinuing pennies for a reason.
>>2215699
sometimes. but usually they have more common metals in them. the point is they're made out of something that required labor to produce. Even "paper" money has SNLT because it's made of flax and linen and anti-counterfeiting measures are a form of sophisticated labor. There was a big debate in /political economy/ general #1 about this

What's that quote by I think Engels about tariffs being a prelude to war?

>>2177902
Hi, I'm here from 4chan. What kind of left wing is this site/board? What is the lean

Is there any real way to poison AI? Ultimately I'd like to see death sentences for everyone who used it, but in the short-term, AI has already re-opened the coal power plants and is set on decimating all life. Is there realistically any way to sabotage or thwart it? Or do we just need to start killing AI users themselves?

>>2216923
>Is there any real way to poison AI?
Sure you can, but anything that is effective also risks being a cognitive hazards since neural networks and cybernetic feed back loops are what our brains are

>>2216923
>AI has already re-opened the coal power plants and is set on decimating all life
*capitalism

>>2216971
Okay, but it's explicitly being done to power AI datacenters, which is why I want to focus on attacking AI, if possible. If it's not possible then okay, forget it; I've just been searching around trying to find out if there is any real, known way to poison AIs, short of having direct access to the code and manipulating it.

>>2216923
>>2217002
Wow I wish I had your problems.

>>2217002
Permanently poisoning AI with input data is pretty much like driving a human clinically insane by showing him a movie - which is some SCP foundation lore tier shit. You cannot do this in real life, thankfully.

>>2217005
Okay what's up, what do you want?

Is Vore praxis?


>>2215732
Your wage - how much your boss made profit from the work you did = surplus value

>>2215724
Depends if they are contractors or public servants.

>>2215709
No but they are closely linked as resources give you power.

>>2217135
no, revenue - wages = surplus value (profit)

I'm looking for a book by a western academic published by a western academic publisher which defends Mao from certain accusations and also praises his actions somewhat
I want the most favourable view of Mao possible within academia

>>2217400
a friend is studying this area, and mentioned Dr. Mobo Gao
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gao_Mobo

Is total transhumanist death the only thing that is going to save us from gender acceleration?


>>2217466
Only total idpol death will save from transvestite obsessed chuds.

>>2217471
Only total gender accelerationist transhumanist death will save us

>>2217471
This sites userbase is probably mostly incel chuds

>>2217471
>its not a problem, stop bringing it up

Has anyone ever written something like "on trangender question", like marx's "on jewish question"?

Why are threads locked?

Why do mods delete threads?

Is resentiment the cause of antisemitism?

File: 1744361941840.png (92.41 KB, 757x422, 14921324761991.png)

>>2218601
Conservatives are simple people who need a simple scapegoat to blame all their problems on.

>>2217484
>/pol/yps obsessing about transvestites is your problem
In the sense that its annoying yes.

Will national, ethnic, religious identity survive communism? Do communists want to destroy these identities?

>>2218629
>gender acceleration is not a thing

>>2218645
>gender acceleration is le bad
>sex roles are le good
the only way out is through chvd

>>2218658
What sex roles?

>>2218658
What is sex role?

>>2218658
>didn't read "Gender Acceleration: A Blackpaper"

>>2218658
>transpeople not existing is le bad
>gender acceleration is le good

>>2218658
Okay nevermind then. You are right. I was wrong.

>>2218645
>idpol brainrot le good or bad
Anyone even mentioning genders or transvestites should be shot.

for eurobros, why is the EU so bad ? Shouldnt we strive for better integration so the day a revolution comes it can engloble all of europe ?

>>2218681
>patriarchy is not a thing
>men caring whether a child is their own or not is not a thing

>>2218662
in feminism it traditionally describes the roles biological women are coerced to adopt i.e. gender, but i prefer to use it refer to the notion that sex = gender or more broadly that a woman is something you are, a belief some transhumanists hold as well. womanhood doesn't manifest as "gender not sex" under patriarchy, both cis and trans women are defined in relation to their biology. notice the betrayal cliche in trap or reverse-trap content, the characters appearance ought to reflect their genitals. gender divorced from sex cuts across biology to defang the oppression of the female sex, it is the runaway cultural detritus of patriarchy accelerating its own inevitable dissolution.

>>2218696
Isnt sex also made up?

>>2218696
What are you saying? Are you saying gender isnt sex? Are distinguishing a woman from a female?

Why has american culture seeped so deeply into european white-collar work?
For example, as far as i understand you are not allowed to swear in office jobs, if you do any banter or anything funny they will phone 'HR' and you will loose your job and etc, right? i was not borne into that class and only worked only on building sites so this is only what i've gleaned from media and you university educated bobo's ots and so on.
It is very strange and very alien to non-burger cultures yet has become seemingly deeply entrenched into these workplaces, even going on to affect countries wider cultures.
What is the reasion for this?

>>2218705
"gender isn't sex" is the creed of the moderate faction of patriarchy, seeking to reintegrate those who transgress from their assigned gender, often in hand with the expectation to reconstruct sex roles in some form. gender transition as a process however often actively severs a functioning sex-gender-identity, popular notions like "born in the wrong body" try to project sex roles onto it, while in practice it is anti-sex.

Why does this site hate soyjaks and sharty?

>>2218712
It's because the company doesn't want to get sued for workplace harassment. They see enough examples of that and it causes them to change their policies. It will happen to Japan too once their oldhat professionals die out.

>>2218783
why would anyone enjoy spending hundreds of hours of looking at disgusting scribbles of shit covered beings hanging themselves is a much more relevant question

>>2218785
but in most of europe we don't have litigation culture like the yanks.

>>2187154
>Is “pussy” or “vagina” considered an insult regarding “weakness” in Russian and Soviet culture as it is in the west?

No, but gendered insults do exist. Something like "Чо хнычешь как баба?" does strongly imply that crying is what a woman does, not man.

>I was wondering because women in the USSR were tough and strong and the stereotype may not be as prevalent.


We live under capitalism for more than 30 years already. Most of the egalitarian sentiments from USSR era are things of the past unfortunately.

Genuine question, are all American politicians evil? How do they justify to themselves their evil actions?

>>2219935
Lake all politicians in the world currently, they pursue the interests of the ruling class - capitalists. They justify it the same way as all ruling elites did in the past and do so i nthe present. They either buy into their own propaganda or they invent some internal system of ethics to do the same job.

>>2219935
>Are all American politicians evil
Yes
>How do they justify it
They get paid enough money to never have to worry about anything ever again

Soyjak

Wait a minute

>>2219940
>What do we think of the soysphere after reading this

>>2219940
>December 2024
wasn't that part of those 50 board plans or whatever
they add and remove boards every month

Why do mods delete posts?

>>2220709
They think the fate of the revolution hinges on the posts on this sub-20-user forum.

Is pride a bourgeousie emotion?

How do I challenge my antisemitic beliefs. They've worsened since the Gaza Genocide and I can say nasty /pol/ shit to Zionists. I don't think I actually believe it but I know it makes them hurt so I have mocked the holocaust etc. in the past.

>>2222174
Dont. Dont bother. You are not the man of the future. You are man of the present

some boogie woman the other day at work started complaining to the cashiers that some of the products contained seed oils. what's the deal with seed oils ?

>>2222250
RFK jr going on his crusade against muh seed oils

How will they solve the small pp problem in communism?

>>2222174
Redefine "antisemitism" in your head as racism against people of Levantine ancestry. Try seeing Jews not as ethnicity or religion, but as a caste… It makes a surprising amount of sense when you start thinking about Jews as "brahmins of Abrahamism".

Is there a free will in communist worldview?

>>2224078
There isn't free will, we are just meat automaton, read the books called The Ego Tunnel

>>2224078
depends how you define "free will". We are materialists so we dont believe in soul and shit like that, and yes this mean in practical term the world is a long chain of cause and consequences including your decisions
Most people mean "free will" like "ability to make decisions" and thats what the human brain is all about, so in that sense yes we have free will.
but its more a philosophical/semantic debate than a communist one. Christcoms exist after all.

>>2222174
just stop being retarded and start being a materialist… nooooooo i gotta say edgy things about how yesterday's reactionaries were right in order to hurt today's reactionary's feelings

>>2224080
I am convinced that when people talk about "free will" what they're really talking about is when you deliberate and have mixed feelings about what you're going to do before doing it. Instead of doing everything purely impulsively. Free will is the feeling of doing things in spite of your mixed feelings.

Bro, who is this cat girl dress on black and red that appears alot here?

>>2220709
because I reported them
>>2220711
having dozens of 1 word post trying to break word filters is not quality and deserves to be deleted

>>2224945
leftypol mascot alunya; byproduct of imageboard obsession with being weebs at the expense of relatability. all imageboards need a "tan" or girl mascot. i suppose it's kinda like how sailors used to put big titty mermaids as the masthead on their boats

File: 1744753486026.png (22.87 KB, 500x314, anfem.png)

When did the funny anfem stop posting here

Is there anything to do with city councils? Its mostly business owners who sit there yes?

>>2226181
go there and say what's up bootlickers

Is the division of labour in a workplace a recent development?

How does one build a solidarity if everyone has different jobs and different salaries and maybe different interests?

Is workerism an issue because of specialization? Was there an issue with workerism before specialization?

Is professionalism bad? Will communism end professionalism?

Is professionalism a petit bourgeosie consciousness?

Did ussr erode its workers' worker consciousness and replaced it with professional consciousness? Was ussr like a giant corporation with lifelong professionals with stabe jobs? Is ussr to blame for the pervasive petite bourgeosie consciosness in the workers of postsoviet states?

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>>2226262
No. Adam Smith wrote about it in the 1700s and it has always been happening increasingly since the neolithic revolution.
>>2226265
By appealing to the common situation in capitalist society which is exploitation. The organization or individual employing you only employs you so long as the results of your labor earns them more money than they pay you. This is the simplest way to put it but obviously there's more to it than that.
>>2226274
No, I don't think so. Specialization has always existed, whereas workerism is a specific form of revisionism that emerged in the Italian left. It meant glorifying the worker, but the problem with that approach, is that it ignores the question of the class conscious proletariat, and uplifts those workers which are not yet class conscious, and may be reactionary, or even aspire to being bourgeois. So it is a kind of aimless machismo. At least that is the main criticism I have heard of it. I have also heard the criticism that workerism only praises labor that produces surplus value (like factory workers) while ignoring labor that does not produce surplus value (like a nurse tending to the sick and dying).
>>2226277
In the sense of people having difficult jobs which require a lot of education and training? Probably not.
>>2226282
Barbara Ehrenreich writes about the "professional managerial class" and other authors dedicate a lot of ink to "labor aristocracy." That being said I think these subclasses that emerged in the imperial core are not petty bourgeois necessarily. They form a layer of insulation between the wage workers and the bourgeoisie. However you often see professionals aspiring to own their own practices and firms, so there is an element of petit bourgeois aspiration among the professionals.
>>2226287
I think that might be overstating it but I can see why someone might say that.


Are you one person asking all these questions? Are you trying to fill up the thread fast?

Are secure stable jobs bad for class consciousness?

>>2226288
I am just asking questions. This is what this thread is for. Sure, they are bad and shallow questions that dont allow for discussions.
How do we stop people with identifying with their job and start identifying with their class. I mistakenly thought that workerism and professionalism is when people identify with their jobs and professions and not with their social class.

How will communists reclaim the word "lumpen" and remove all the negativity from it? Lumpens are worker class without jobs

>>2226265
identify common interests but be aware of the semi-proletarian/petite-bourgeoisie's everpresent trickeries
>>2226274
accusations of workerism are outright attack on proletarian supremacy
>>2226290
reducing class down to a "job" is class collaborationist bourgeois thinking
>>2226292
>>2226293
please put all your questions in one post.
>stop people with identifying with their job and start identifying with their class.
job, i.e., social division of labor, denotes class

>>2226292
what do you think of my previous answers?
>How do we stop people with identifying with their job and start identifying with their class
Eugene V Debs has a great answer to this
https://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/works/1905/classunionism.htm
> I mistakenly thought that workerism and professionalism is when people identify with their jobs and professions and not with their social class.
it may very well have more than one definition; I gave the one I am most familiar with.

>>2226295
>accusations of workerism are outright attack on proletarian supremacy
Here I thought workerism was praising the actions of workers, even when those actions are reactionary. For example, the hard hat riots in the 1970s in the USA were thoroughly reactionary and defended US imperialism in vietnam. The workerist conclusion would be to defend those actions because "workers did it and workers are always right"

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>>2226304
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Anarchy/j1spAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22workerism%22&pg=RA5-PA11&printsec=frontcover
The earliest usage of "workerism" I can find is from Russian anarchist newspaper attacking the Communist Party. Accusations of workerism have historically been used by the bourgeoisie to slander Communist States.
>For example, the hard hat riots in the 1970s in the USA were thoroughly reactionary and defended US imperialism in vietnam. The workerist conclusion would be to defend those actions because "workers did it and workers are always right"
No one really does this. The proper understanding of "workerism" is as form of bourgeois slander against proletarians; a way of resisting proletarian supremacy and mitigating the power of the proletarians

>>2226325
>No one really does this
I see it happen a lot on here actually. For example in USApol every day there's a guy who says "everyone getting deported is petit bourgeois, Trump is defending the American worker from gusanos and scabs, real workers support Trump" etc. You saw the same thing with the hard hat riots in the 70s. Real workers are patriotic and support American imperialism, etc. etc. People opposed to American imperialism are all pencil necked petty bourgeois over educated dandies, etc. This is quite common in the imperial core.
> The proper understanding of "workerism" is as form of bourgeois slander against proletarians; a way of resisting proletarian supremacy and mitigating the power of the proletarians
OK so what is the better word for the thing I'm describing, where people defend the most reactionary and class-unconscious section of the workers as the "true" revolutionaries against the actual class conscious proletariat? Fascism?

>>2226369
deporting a petite-bourgeois gusano is utterly different from invading a Communist country

>>2226369
>better word for the thing I'm describing, where people defend the most reactionary and class-unconscious section of the workers as the "true" revolutionaries against the actual class conscious proletariat?
its called trade unionism. pentagon funded unions led the hard hat riot. your simple understanding of all construction workers as reactionary apes and students as proletarian vanguard is devoid of understanding. petite-bourgeois often go against amerikkkan imperialism but to hail them as the eternal vanguard is treason

Do you guys also have the "Not reporting is bourgeois" red text?

>>2227068
Sadly.

>>2227074
What does it mean?

>>2227077
Mods being memelords.

Were slaves and peasants the revolutionary classes of their time?

>>2228402
Not really, if you look at which classes drove historical development, any actual slave or peasant rebellions were isolated, localized incidents. The feudal order was obviously overturned in favor of the bourgeoisie, i'm a bit weak on the specifics of manorialization, could have been a warlord/landlord class. The Roman slave economy was also doomed, because the supply of slaves eventually dried up. I think eastern Rome developed into a despotic command economy (the wealth of the state being synonymous with the wealth of its rulers, financing projects and reaping funds like a personal oikonomos) from this internal contradiction without overturning their contemporary class society.

how do i unchud my mind (been chud since 17 now 24)

>>2228711
Stop being a NEET and work in low wagie tier work, and suffer the plight of being a wagie slave and return back to NEETdom as leftist

>>2228713
I work a full time IT job and am a gay man lol I'm just racist if I'm being real

>>2228829
Then proceed to acquire NEETbux and leave wiagedom behind

>>2228829
Read more books. Make more friends. Chud status is simply alienation from the world.

Why ML get a bad rep around here?

>>2229748
That is just trot slander

>>2229752
Sure, but it seems a lot of people here hate ML

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>>2177902
How to protect the working class masses from marxists who want to enslave them and become the new ruling class?

>>2177927
because, generally, people come here to ask questions, not answer them. meanwhile everyone sees new threads, so you get a greater pool of people to reply and answers generally come much quicker and with more detail.

>>2229781
bad faith question. contemplate suicide, reactionary scum.

>>2227077
we were getting brigaded by 4chan refugees and also the usual annoying trolls so they were encouraging people to report

>>2228829
why are you racist

Can a pacifist be a revolutionary?
Or do revolutions always imply revolutionary violence?

>>2230184
It's possible but pacifism is only strategically useful and the likely outcome from it is getting killed by your non-pacifist opponent

>>2230190
Am okay with self defense, arms, and training.
It's preferable to being murdered but still not desirable.
Thanks.

>>2224944
>>2224080
>>2224078
Free will isn't absolute but it does exist

>>2224944
>when you deliberate and have mixed feelings
The old fashioned version of the argument is that "free will" is having unique feelings, impulses, and surely computation too about the mind.
Of course this isn't really opposed to determinism which is the view that human actions are determined.

Who is the big booba girl with a white hair, blue eyes and a microphone on the banner?

if I'm a middle class woman/minority in a rich country, is communism in my interest or are my interests better served by progressive liberalism, feminism, social justice, welfare state, etc?

Are there any psychological effects to gaining class consciousness and true consciousness?

>>2231331
At the minimum many social democratic policies like free college, single-payer, green new-deal, etc. target primarily the middle-class.
Shifting discourse to the left also helps move policy away from people who might want to oppress you, and undermine these policies which benefit the middle-class.
Worker control of the means of production would also be in your interest, it would permanently remove many people who wish to oppress you.

>>2231353
Wonder if it might make you less happy to realize you're oppressed, lol.
It probably depends on how it's channeled, e.g. do you go and build community and solidarity with it or do you sit depressed in an armchair.
Just guessing though.

>>2231364
>Worker control of the means of production would also be in your interest, it would permanently remove many people who wish to oppress you.
couldn't workers also wish to oppress me?

>>2231399
>couldn't workers also wish to oppress me?
Not as a worker, or a middle-class person, maybe in other ways though.
You could make the argument that many of these ideas come from above, which is often what anti-idpol leftist do.
The oppressive structures are all related to them, or descended from a common cause.
They'd look at all the billionaires lined up behind the US President, or Murdoch (as a prime example) or the Koch brothers (another one) and say these people have had an extensive influence on public opinion.
(Am speaking of America because this is most familiar to me, but am certain there are examples of the rich promoting conservative politics in your own country.)

This makes me angry

>>2233194
>harmful spending habits
Implying the average immiserated wage worker has disposable income like the people this article is talking about.

>>2233194
>>2233201
I mean TBH many many many people waste money on shit they don't need

>>2233202
Yeah you see lots of programmers earning 30 times the minimum wage on reddit spending all their money on multiple mechanical keyboards and a wall of funko pops and then saying they "live paycheck to paycheck", which is true, but isn't telling us anything.

>>2233213
It's more like 6-10 times, and they're still probably spending most of their money on housing, car, gas, food; (especially if they work in a major metro) you know necessities.

>>2233194
Go ahead, make a recession worse

>>2233214
Gigacope.

>>2233214
the working class may console themselves with the fact that the wealthy worker has to scrimp and save to pay for cocktails since he daringly moved to, say, san francisco

>>2233223
>>2233221
Am not joking, if you pick San Fransisco:
Median Home Price: Approximately $1.35 million.​
Annual Mortgage Payment: Ranging from about $94,600 to $118,600.​

You have to make a whole lot more than the federal minimum to even come close to living there.

>>2233232
Am not sure agree, but isn't it a Marxist point that wages tend towards subsistent wages anyway?

>>2230794
genderswapped Hugo Chavez
Context:
https://danbooru.donmai.us/pools/6355
Also, have moe Stalin, Mao, Castro and Gaddaffi as bonuses

>>2233232
if you work in tech you theoretically have to live in SF though.

regardless let's not engage in 'PMC' bullshit, just saying that lots of people spend money on things they don't need. one of my coworkers spends £300 per month on taxis to and from work, whereas I live a similar distance and just walk (we make minimum wage)

>>2233243
>Just saying that lots of people spend money on things they don't need.
Guess was just arguing that there are other major expenses which are probably more important, and that tech workers aren't necessarily living the life of luxury, even at higher pay. Perhaps was mistaken to have done even this.

Am I wrong to oppose communism because I fear it will take on a pre dominantly anti white character, ala South Africa? /leftypol/ maybe nominally anti idol but the overwhelming majority of communists in the west are not. And white people in a sense are a sort of racial bourgeoisie if you look at the way wealth is actually distributed.

>>2233202
Yes, we have a propaganda machine bombarding literally every second to buy shit but the problem is we need therapy…

>>2233320
>Am I wrong

Yes.

>>2224954
Why would 'weebs' want relatibility?

>>2233241

They made a book about famous generals too

We need a new Marx to write about treats and their consequences on political discourse.

>>2216570
"Tariffs are the prelude to war, the diplomatic note announcing the declaration of hostilities."
I found the quote, but I can't source it for the life of me. Google books, Google scholar, LLMs, MECW, none of it has helped.

could someone be a doll and post the dengist elder scroll for me?

Why was there no Prussian blue staining on the walls?

What makes a revolution a neccesity?

Why are the japanese good at nostalgia?

>>2237203
Think the rough argument is those that hold the power aren't stupid enough to be boiled like a frog.
The history of Latin America and the Middle East rife with this over even relatively minor things.
Given this with imperialist support, but you still need some local group to support for that to work.

>>2237344
Because the 80s was the only time Japan was good.

why are there so many obvious right wing people here
why does leftypol welcome so many rightypol ideas

this is the most right wing leftist space i have ever seen, and id say about 50% of this board is entirely far-right, and another 25% is strictly "centrist" with MAYBE 25% being even slightly to the left of center

…are yall actually leftists or is this yet another image board that exists purely as a psyop to move people into the nazi party?


>>2237853
Because 4chan shut down, we're getting a lot of refugees from there

what is happening in Kashmir? Hear that it is India's own Palestine

File: 1745440729394.png (4.33 KB, 225x225, images (75).png)

>>2237853
its a psyop to make nazis liberal

>>2237853
4chan got closed down. This is an anonymous forum. VPNs are easily accessible. You do the math.
Nobody wants Nazis to be here. Not even other Nazis.

>>2237853
>why does leftypol welcome so many rightypol ideas

In part because of the belief that by engaging with them it's possible to change the minds of those that also possess similar beliefs. In another part it is a development resulting from other leftist forums like r/socialism or hexbear where you are immediately banned for not adhering to site orthodoxy on various issues.

It's a stance that has at times been beneficial and arguably successful and at others severely annoying because it's essentially a never ending conflict against rightist bullshit, and in recent times arguably less beneficial due to the decreasing amount of people left to effortpost contrary viewpoints from positions of authority.

This might deserve it's own thread, dunno. What's the principled Marxist position on immigration. Just posted in >>>/labor/734 that Marx thought that Irish reduced wages. But he thought it was worse that it divided the working class in the fight for higher wages. The article linked also thought there might be an imperialist negative pressure to immigration. So that NAFTA in harming native agriculturalists created immigration pressure. What's all this mean for policy though? Obviously one can continue to oppose it on the basis of the violence committed. Is the idea just to ignore the negatives and focus on organizing?

Can anyone recommend me some critiques on social anarchism from people who understand anarchism. This topic is a lot harder to find than I expected.


>>2240671

Got anything that criticizes Social Anarchism and the modern movement?

I don't think anything you recommended was useful at all. What you recommended either doesn't accurately tackle the critique of the time or reflect the strain I'm talking about in the current movement.

>>2237853
>why does leftypol welcome so many rightypol ideas
Do you have a single example of what you mean by this? I actually agree with you maybe, but I also want to see specific examples of what you think constitutes "right wing" because that can make a big difference.

>>2240761
can anyone find that meme where marx kicked out rad fems from the second international?

>>2240835
it wasn't "rad fems" it was 1 single bourgeois woman from the united states who wanted to make female emancipation and suffrage in bourgeois society the primary issue of the international workingmen's association. It wasn't that Marx was opposed to female emancipation, it was that he did not think true emancipation was possible under bourgeois society. Woodhull was a reformist and a business owner. The idea of "rad fems" (who are reformist and liberal but not necessarily bourgeois in their class character) wouldn't exist until much later. The excerpt you are thinking of from a book written by a liberal American in the 1990s after the fall of the USSR so I honestly wouldn't trust the way it frames that event.

>>2240835
also it wasn't the 2nd international. it was the 1st international. the 2nd international started after marx died.

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>>2240761
social anarchism is oxymoron. anarchism is not socialism because anarchism is not proletarian. anarchism attack proletariat dictatorship and undermine proletarian ideology. anarchism is bourgeois. Stalin's work is most comprehensive in explaining why.

>>2240879
< Everything I don't like it's bourgeois
We should implement a minimum age check to post here

>>2240879
I don't think you quite understand. Most of the anarchists I speak with today understand and agree with Marx on dialectical materialism. Anarchism just doesn't only take class into account and directly critiques power.Are you just saying anarchism is not proletarian because it challenges your world view? How is anarchism bourgeois?

I'm not sure you quite understand what I'm asking for or what anarchism is.

>>2240879
Anarchist and communist share the same goal - a classless, stateless, and moneyless society. We disagree with communist only in the details; primarily over whether a state remains necessary in the transition towards communism or if it is possible to dissolve the state prior to achieving post-scarcity.

If you don't think a classless, stateless, and moneyless society is possible then you're not a communist, though perhaps you could belong to some other strain of leftist (read: anti-capitalist) thought.

>>2241117
>>2241126
What do anarchists say about the dictatorship of the proletariat and repressions?

>>2241132
I mean obviously there are many strains of anarchist thought but personally I do think a "dictatorship of the proletariat" will be a necessary step but I don't conceive of this dictatorship as a one-party state exercising the tenants of democratic centralism. The vanguard party should not be narrowly defined as members of one specific political party but as all members of the working class who have attained class consciousness. The dictatorship of the proletariat ought to expand democracy not constrain it as the bourgeoisie do.

>>2241132
Total Marxoid Death

>>2241140
I agree with this. Most Ancoms do believe there will be a transitional period but are skeptical that opportunistic actors will seize power in order to create a new oppressor as seen in the USSR. Control should remain in the soviets in this example with people making the decisions rather than a vanguard party.

Why or how would the state ever give up control willingly? How can we trust the new state after the revolution to give up power?

>>2241152
I agree. I am a liberal, btw. I believe in personal freedom above all else

>>2241165
>I believe in personal freedom above all else
Me too but sadly liberalism is too authoritarian for my tastes so I will join forces with marxoids to kill you if possible.

>>2241199
Not if i join with them first to kill you instead

>>2241202
They will not accept you friend. I would ask yourself does liberalism give you the most possible freedom?

>>2241210
I am so liberal that i will abandon my liberalism

>>2187154
The reactionary criminals that ruled (and rule) russia since the ussr have made sure that these insults and other retarded ways of keeping the proles from hanging them are back.

>>2241140
If you support a dictatorship of the proletariate unmediated by vanguard does this mean one has an infantile disorder. Please help, one is very concerned.

>>2187154
There are many curse words in russian that have their root word a "pussy". However, it is not used to mean weakness. Those words are used to mean underage children, liars, also means "to talk". They often say pussy to mean mouth

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>>2240833
The hordes of ziggers crying about multipolarity. Because being ruled by 3 porky is better than being ruled by 2 or 1 porky

>>2241281
Historically speaking, it's mostly been MLs doing the betrayal. The entire Bolshevik faction was kind of a den of snakes constantly stabbing each other and their supposed allies in the back.

>>2241285
Lenin shoulda drained the life force of trotsky and stalin to live until 1950. The world would probably be better that way

>>2241281
Any historical examples of such a betrayal?

>>2241281
>They will betray you
Absolutely but we have common enemies to deal with before anarchist can establish full communism instead of what ever nightmarish hell USSR and Maoist China was.

>>2241275
I find it difficult to conceive of a DotP without some kind of vanguard - even a very broad vanguard incorporating all conscious members of the proletariat. Simply because in most of the world the workers are not sufficiently cognizant of their own class interests to really advocate for themselves effectively. That being said, I'm not going to dismiss the idea out of hand.

>>2241289
Nah. Im just saying things

>>2241279
you're just a retard getting mad at a strawman
pro imperialist retard like you are loosing though, which is exactly why you're the ones crying, so its all fine for me if you seethe impotently about multipolarity while accusing people of holding beliefs they dont have

>>2241295
The idea of a "sufficiently large vanguard" as the DotP almost sounds workable.
To be clear my problem isn't with vanguard, or democratic centralism, but vanguard as DotP.
This may sound ridiculous, but could the vanguard as DotP just be the voting half of the proletariate?

How do I get NKVD jannies delete posts I dont like?

>>2241800
>Democratic Marxist-Leninist
No probably not.

>>2241800
>>2241851
Just can't manage to make the leap.
Seem to be able to support everything but the vanguard as DotP.
Well, that and an unprovoked (non-defensive) violent revolution.
Guess this is pretty radlib or fedpilled.

>>2241864
>Well, that and an unprovoked violent revolution.
This probably doesn't amount to much.
You conduct action, and then the cops are called.
All the sudden you've got people trying to violently oppress you.
You can either run or fight, or whatever, depending on circumstance.
It really does just come down to the singular point of the vanguard as DotP.

>>2240903
anarchism is bourgeois. you are anti-communist. read stalin. do you have anything of meaning to add?
>>2241126
>Most of the anarchists I speak with today understand and agree with Marx on dialectical materialism.
They must pretend to comprehend broadest principles of scientific socialism to appear as posture true socialists to deceive proletarians. You have failed to study Karl Marx's scientific analysis of anarchists and their bourgeois nature.
>Anarchism just doesn't only take class into account
anarchism is not science nor socialist. you make big mistake by comparing scientific socialism with anarchism. anarchist groups are comprised of the bourgeoisie, as explained by Stalin.
>Are you just saying anarchism is not proletarian because it challenges your world view?
anarchism undermines proletarian dictatorship. anarchism undermines proletarian thought.
>How is anarchism bourgeois?
Read Stalin for a comprehensive analysis of scientific socialism and anarchism.
>I'm not sure you quite understand what I'm asking for or what anarchism is.
You fail to realize that anarchism is a specific socio-historical phenomenon and not some idea.
>>2241126
>Anarchist and communist share the same goal - a classless, stateless, and moneyless society.
Wrong. the goal of anarchism is to destroy proletarian states.
>We disagree with communist only in the details; primarily over whether a state remains necessary
The existence of a state is essential question of revolution, not a detail. Read Lenin.

>>2242259
>the goal of anarchism is to destroy proletarian states.
It's not. And it's not a flattering look to just go making up nonsense. You should try making an actual argument.

>>2242268
I don't need to make any argument. Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin dedicated countless hours towards doing so. The reactionary nature of anarchism is not debatable.
>it's not a flattering look to just go making up nonsense.
Every historical example of anarchism defies proletarian supremacy. It is not for nothing that international socialist congresses adopted the decision not to admit the anarchists. A wide gulf separates socialism from anarchism, and it is in vain that the agents-provocateurs of the secret police and the news paper lackeys of reactionary governments pretend that this gulf does not exist. The philosophy of the anarchists is bourgeois philosophy turned inside out. Their individualistic theories and their individualistic ideal are the very opposite of socialism. Their views express, not the future of bourgeois society, which is striding with irresistible force towards the socialisation of labour, but the present and even the past of that society, the domination of blind chance over the scattered and isolated small, producer. Their tactics, which amount to a repudiation of the political struggle, disunite the proletarians and convert them in fact into passive participators in one bourgeois policy or another, since it is impossible and unrealisable for the workers really to dissociate themselves from politics.

to be fair theyve allowed anarchism to take place too with the zapatistas and rojava but it always ends up being an underwhelming agrarian commune.
Say what you will about tankies but whike they build nuclear reactors the anarchist plant potatoes

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If i make some /leftypol/ pin-badges with alunya and maybe some other meme flags on will anybody want any? :)

>>2242317
That's why Lenin taught us that anarchism is the product of despair, the psychology of the unsound intellectual or vagabond, not product of proletarian sciences. Zapatista is particular example because it is comprised of peasants (campesinos) and minor land-owners who resist imperialism to survive.

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https://archive.is/WYk5G

>“This is about much more than just getting your website indexed in their results. This is about recognising large language models as the ultimate influencer,” said Jack Smyth, partner at marketing technology group Brandtech, which has created its own interface for brands.

What social class are students? Are they lumpen proletariat?

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I'm making a website that helps quickly write high-quality replies to common questions instead of everyone having to spend minutes writing and collecting sauce and shit. Kind of like an FAQ, but extended. It's focused around socialism and related topics.

Is "Redply" or "Redplies" a good name? Got anything better?

>>2245237
For what it's worth, most university students I know are incidentally part-time workers.

(I mean this next question sincerely and without knowing the answer)
Why does it matter what class they are?

>>2237853
Where the fuck do you live, the People's Republic of China? There's no way seizing the means of production (easily 90+% of this board unless you're in a garbage thread) is somehow "slightly to the left of center" in most of the world.

What's it called when, one baits the opposition, possibly using plants and complicit media, into purposefully adopting up bad positions? Say, how the bourgeoisie often amplifies radlibs to the point that everyone to the left of them feels compelled to tail the liberals, in order to smuggle in a little bit of class consciousness.

Examples would be
>The lightning-rod effect forced upon the elite university campuses for BDS
>The focus on the deportation of Khalil Mahmoud who was most likely a UK glowie plant to begin with
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/13/mahmoud-khalil-columbia-british-government-work
>The media circus around BLM, celebrity drama and small time unionizing
Over the actual issues of IMO the extreme centralization of power in the executive and permanent state of exception that was justified since the PatriotAct at least, and ICE having those ridiculous powers because of it, for example.


>>2246422
Thanks comrade. I was definitely going to use that extensive anarchist FAQ but I hasn't thought of the marxists.org glossary.
>reddit
*sigh* I know, I noticed too.

>>2246376
Its called opportunism

Marxists don't actually believe that the rich and powerful do everything they do because material concerns they do, right? When European aristocrats blew their fortunes and risked their lives on going on crusades to distant lands they did it because their engagement in the mode of production required them to be religious and martial, not because something obscure like "trade rights" or wanting to own lands surrounded by millions of angry turks

>>2248325
Think the money "thinks" for itself because it's managed indirectly.

>>2248325
you coukd argue the crusades was about plundering like most wars

>>2248325
>When European aristocrats blew their fortunes and risked their lives on going on crusades to distant lands they did it because their engagement in the mode of production required them to be religious and martial
That's still a materialist explanation. Also most nobles who went on crusade were younger sons who had no chance of inheriting their fathers' estates. They went on crusades to acquire wealth rather than just mooch off their older brothers in Europe their whole lives.

>>2248325
the language of the rulers change but motivations remain the same

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How would we realistically deal with these people in the (unlikely) event that we gain legitimate control over society? Putting them to death? Institutilization? Forced re-education?

>>2248405
Nothing

>>2248409
As in a "nothing would be a better punishment than making them continue to live as they are" sense?

>>2248412
Nothing. There will be organic stonings

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>>2248405
you mean the incestophobes? yeah they get institutionalised, and forced to watch incest porn for the rest of their lives a la clockwork orange

What do you suppose become of ThingNoticer?

*became of

>>2248912
he probably got another site to stalk or killed himself

>>2248405
systematically condemning people for either side of these stupid arguments is fascistic.

Incest is wrong, but it's wrong in the same sense as eating paint.

On the other hand, it's none of your fucking business what consenting adults are doing behind closed doors. Acting like people are immoral for having consensual sex is the BEHAVIOR of someone who's been eating paint.

The only correct decision is to shut the fuck up. just block them if you don't like them. you are free to curate your online experience, but you are not free to harass random people for shit that doesn't impact your life in any capacity.

If I want to understand what Hudson talks about, do I do a MSc in economics or finance or politcal economy or?

>>2249911
Study something with good career prospects. Study theory on your free time.

>>2250123

I already have a career. I am interested in advancing my career further.

>>2249911
Econ and finance because that was Hudson's specialty as well.

Can Jews be considered proletariat?

>>2250604
Can retarded /pol/yps be considered part of the proletariat or are they class enemies fueled by nationalist idpol?

>>2250609
But how can people engaging in settler colonialism and genocide be considered proletarian

>>2250610
So true comrade we should kill all jews women and children included that have nothing to do with Israel. When you think about we dont even need socialism if we only get rid of jews.

>is that a bait? Oh god im gonna respooooooond oh god im respoooooonding aaaaaaaaaaahhh

Terrorism against angloids is completely justified. That includes babies.

There's so many branches of Marxist thought and so many Socialist ideologies, and they all constantly infight and despise each other and call each other retarded and wrong on the internet…
How can you correctly determine which is correct branch of socialist thought, without dedicating your life to reading 100 hours of theory a day?
And is it actually ever possible for MLs, MLMs, Trots, Anarchists, Syndicalists, LibSocs, LeftComs and everyone else to chill with each other and work together on anything?

does investing in the stock market change my class? am I petty bourgeois now or still a prole

>>2251520
Wrote about this recently here >>2250918.

>>2251520
yes. stock market exploiters are petty-bourgeois

What's a photo op?

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where's this character from

>>2253742
This. Gender swapped chavez
>>2233241

Do Bordigists, Council Coms, and Luxemburgists actually exist in the real world? Has anyone ever met one irl?


>>2254250
how does a Bordigist engage in praxis in 2025?

>>2254279
I talk to my co workers and try to influence and teach them. But not in a condescending way, I am not better than anyone else

>>2254213
They are very insular

What is embedding and how do i do it?

Is big companies pushing out smal businesses good or historically progressive or whatever?

>>2255995
Maybe not from an Anarchist POV but if your goal is society organizing production through a big central plan, it's good.

what the zonk is communization theory?
some kind of armchair autist fusion of leftcom-ism and anarchism?

How Marxist is Burkina Faso currently?

Why do some pan-africanists (or people in general) associate white men with habitants of the first world who condone western hegemony over the third world? Isn't that the kind of essentialism which creates racism? The same kind used to accuse jews of being agents of Israel and muslims of having ties with ISIS?

>>2262869
>why do…
Man, who cares?

>>2262873
I do. I thought maybe they had a good reason for it and wanted to know if anyone could enlighten me on the matter.

Some Trump-supporting friend is convinced that manufacturing will return to the USA. Wondering what you guys predict will happen under these tariffs.

Whats a historically progressive?

>>2264397
what is the mechanism by whicn they think manufacturing can return to the USA?

>>2265220
Child labour

Was stalin a left communist?


>>2265522
Stalin was a retarded totalitarian uyghur that set back worldwide socialism by decades.

>>2265530
>believes in the totalitarian meme
ngmi

>>2265530
but he only had one vote in the central committee

>>2265530
>totalitarian.
only retarded liberals would believe that dogshit, if he controlled everything all his post war reforms would be introduced instead of repealled.
> set back worldwide socialism by decades.
the only relevant piece of socialism was propped and expanded by stalin, rendering your cope meaningless.

>>2265537
>>2265540
>>2265565
>Stalin apologist

Jesus Christ, pathetic.

Yes I'm a Stalin apologist. First day?

>>2265568
Show some respect. Clown.

>>2265582
No respect for Stalin uyghurs.

>>2265587
Don't sign your posts.

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>>2265568
>you are hecking patetic.
sorry for triggering your flight or flight response libby, greatest leader the world has ever seen.

>>2265609
>you don't understand hecking lib, Stalerino wanted to join the Axis because he was playing 4D chess

>>2265619
I'll take things that never happened for 400, Alex.

>>2265619
>he wanted to hecking join the axis.
false, MR was a reaction to munich pact, AKA western encroachment and letting nazis rearm and take czechoslovakia, an soviet ally, with help from poland.
totaly justifiable and the funniest move he could have pulled in the nations that denied a defense pact with him.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html

>>2265619
>the molotov ribbentrop pact was an axis alliance
read a fucking book you moron

>>2265634
Stalin wanted to join the Axis

>>2265635
provide literally a slither of proof please

>>2265635
<[CITATION NEEDED]

>>2265568
stalin dont need to "apologize" for anything, fuck off lib

how do you separate between the concepts of progress and telos? its not possible to conceive of an "end of history" without assigning history a purpose. if we permit teleology, then this becomes an essential attribute of nature itself. if we otherwise say that history has no purpose, then there can also be no progress, but only particular preference. ive noticed for example, that people just call things they like "progressive", showing its arbitrary signification. i am slowly becoming an historical nihilist myself and so am sceptical of the notion of "progress". engels writes that slavery and suffering are necessary prerequisite for a future socialist utopia, and in other places, explicitly compares the fantasies of an afterlife to a heavenly paradise made by man. is heaven really a paradise if it is built on skulls, and is all this really "necessary" for a final cause of history?

>>2265659
> I'm gonna defende a retarded that kill his own people! Fuck off libtare!!

Absolutely retarded and a big cuck

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>>2266612
>how do you separate between the concepts of progress and telos?
Any coherent notion of progress is either teleological or tautological. The former means progress is defined in a utopian manner, according to how well it aligns with the ideal. The latter means anything that happens is progress because history continues to move and contradictions continue to play out. It's either idealist and misleading or it's materialist but sterile.

>>2266620
the issue with the tautology (history = progress) is that there can be no concept of regress, and so progress itself cannot be qualified. if we instead say that between two options, one is "more" progressive than the other, we must define what exactly that is. some might say that progress is the new, or change. but why cant change be a change for the worse?

Is there such a thing as a slave consciousness? If so, is it a material factor?

>>2266695
Everything that exists is a material factor

>>2266695
there is "slave morality" as nietzsche understood it. we call it "victim mentality" today. its when you have revenge fantasies because you are too weak to actually achieve justice. the concepts of heaven and hell are an example, " i forgive you, but God doesnt".

>>2266620
>>2266373
> why cant change be a change for the worse?
This is why instead of "progress" and "change" we often see Marxists talk about what is "historically necessary." Historically necessary means something very specific. It doesn't mean "good." For example Stalin said slavery was historically necessary to pull humans out of primitive communism:

>If there are no isolated phenomena in the world, if all phenomena are interconnected and interdependent, then it is clear that every social system and every social movement in history must be evaluated not from the standpoint of "eternal justice" or some other preconceived idea, as is not infrequently done by historians, but from the standpoint of the conditions which gave rise to that system or that social movement and with which they are connected.


>The slave system would be senseless, stupid and unnatural under modern conditions. But under the conditions of a disintegrating primitive communal system, the slave system is a quite understandable and natural phenomenon, since it represents an advance on the primitive communal system


Source: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

This doesn't mean he's saying it's "good." The "progress" here is not the progress of whig history, but the progress of contradictions playing out.

>>2266695
Do you mean slave consciousness the way Nietzsche means slave morality or do you mean class consciousness among slaves, or something else? If class consciousness among slaves, then yes. We have Roman servile revolts, Nat Turner, Haitian Revolution etc. as proof of that.

>>2266794
i already discussed the concept of "necessity". the issue is that for something to be necessary implies teleology, since you are saying it has to happen. the issue of course is that you justify everything under the banner of necessity, the exact same way a christian calls their suffering part of "God's plan". its cope at the very least, and pure malice at most.
>progress isnt good
then its tautological, as i have explained. how do you determine what is "more" or "less" progressive between two historical tendencies? the practical answer is that you prefer one choice and assign it with positivity, but this then makes history a pure particularity. if we are deferring to "necessity" and therefore universality, the good must exist beyond ourselves. but how can we determine this?

>>2266796
Progress means to move forward. Neccesary means you cant do without it

>>2266877
move forward into what?

>>2266891
As in advance. You do know the meaning of the word advanced yes?

>>2266891
You dont need premeditated destination to step forward, do you?

>>2266894
an object moving in space has a determined location. what does the advancement of history imply in regards to its proximate location?

>>2266898
yes you do. to have movement is to have velocity which determines us, unless countered by something opposed to it.

>>2266901
That it changed?

>>2266904
right, but one can also surely regress in regards to their movement. this is based in the direction of travel. we cannot see history's direction however, so how do we determine its movement, except in regard to its telos?

>>2266907
Whats a telos?

>>2266907
I dont think natural history is same as history. People say "prehistoric", doesnt mean stuff didnt happen

>>2266910
A final state of existence or purpose of something

>>2266910
a purposeful goal or final cause to something. it is often opposed in materialism, since its justification is held as a form of essentialism.
>>2266915
yes
>>2266913
>I dont think natural history is same as history
i dont think so either, yet humanity arbitrarily decides on when history "began" and how it will "end".

>>2266917
Why are you making an analogy between movement in space and movement of history?

>>2266917
Noone arbitrarily decided when history began and when it will end.

>>2266920
because the example used for "progress" was "advancement" or forward movement, so i was applying these terms with regard to spatial direction. the typical telos is development by temporal direction however, like how life grows and matures in time.
>>2266921
many people clearly have. why do you think we have the term "pre-historical".

>>2266907
>regress
Why are you distinuishing regress from progress?

>>2266924
Progress translates as advance

>>2266924
It wasnt arbitrary

What's the leftypol opinions of the webnovel called "Reverend Insanity"?

>>2266925
because they are opposite terms, and therefore negatively define each other. to go backwards is the opposite of forward movement.
>>2266928
yes, so if history progresses, how do we determine its direction?
>>2266930
okay, so what distinguishes history from pre-history?

>>2266796
>i already discussed the concept of "necessity". the issue is that for something to be necessary implies teleology, since you are saying it has to happen
historically necessary the way stalin uses it in the quote supplied by >>2266794 does not mean absolute necessity, it means relative necessity. relative to what? relative to the advancement of the productive forces and the mode of production. certain things are historically necessary with respect to production, not absolutely necessary in general. Marxism is from the standpoint of class society, not from some idealist absolute standpoint.

>>2266935
Why do we need to determine its direction? I dont think society can go back to being a slavery time or hunter gatherer time. And i dont know what distinguishes history from pre history. Im not a historian. But they probably do research and stuff.

>>2266947
>And i dont know what distinguishes history from pre history.
Mainstream history often distinguishes history from pre-history based on the invention of writing, while Marxist history uses class society and material conditions as the metric to understand historical development.

>>2266935
>if history progresses how do we determine its direction?
What?

>>2266891
Into itself

>>2266946
>relative necessity
necessity is always absolute; thats what makes it "necessary".
>the advancement of the productive forces and the mode of production
so USA going to the moon before the USSR was more progressive since it showed greater technical ability?
>>2266947
>Why do we need to determine its direction?
we dont, if we dont believe in historical progress. but if we do, we have to understand "progress", as a directional term, in time and space.
>I dont think society can go back to being a slavery time or hunter gatherer time
why not? this is the crux of the issue.
>>2266956
progress = forward movement
forward movement toward what, exactly?
>>2266960
right, but then this tautology cannot make distinction between progress and regress. progress is linear, not circular.

>>2266969
Okay. I get it. It is a possibility that a society, a current society as we know it can go back to hunter gatherer stuff. Is that what you are saying?

>>2266969
So, you are not a determinist?

>>2266975
what im saying is that the "end of history" is a pure presumption in people's minds, identical to a telos. if we revoked the notion of a purpose to history, suddenly all the slavery and suffering is not part of a greater plan, and so becomes unjustifiable. marxists will gladly sacrifice millions to pursue a utopia which may never come; therefore, how do we know the direction of history to make sure?

>>2266980
physically, all bodies are determined
history however, is an abstraction

>>2266982
Slavery was not a plan. It emerged because material conditions, or something

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What's his secret?

>>2266986
to progressives, like marx and engels, the logic of slavery eventually leads to communism. i am extremely sceptical of this apologism, which appeals to necessity.

>>2266982
Okay, history should end now then.

>>2266995
if we could actually perceive history, we could determine when it would end. as of yet, it has no physical proof for itself.

>>2266969
>necessity is always absolute; thats what makes it "necessary".
no…. relative necessity clearly exists. for example. if I want to run for president in my country, it's necessary that I be a native-born citizen above a certain age. But if I want to run for president in another country, there might be different requirements, or if I don't want to run for president it's not necessary at all.
>so USA going to the moon before the USSR was more progressive since it showed greater technical ability?
No that is not what is being said at all. Anon was talking about historical necessity, not progress. Read the conversation again.

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>>2266988
>his
implying only one

>>2266994
Things can be neccesary for something and also neccesarily follow from something. Both are neccesity

>>2266994
you are confusing relative necessity with absolute necessity, and necessity with progress, and progress with good.

>>2266997
History is movement of stuff

Start a separate thread uygha

>>2267001
yes, that still makes certain things absolute for different reasons
>>2266999
>Anon was talking about historical necessity, not progress.
whats the difference?
>>2267002
>you are confusing relative necessity with absolute necessity
whats the difference?
>and progress with good
no, i am opposing progress with regress. you cant have one without the other.
>>2267005
everything is always moving, that doesnt mean there has always beem history.

>>2267009
If we include natural history there always has been a history

>>2267011
sure, and so the concept of progress is abolished within a tautology: (history = everything).

>>2267009
Start a separate thread uyghur

>>2267012
Nope. If history = everything then, progress of history = progress of everything. Still a progress

>>2267014
sure, but progress is opposed to regress, so where can regress be possible in unconditional progress?

>>2267018
Idk, im not a philosopher

>>2267021
well its just logic. opposites (positives and negatives) must be able to define each other. if i make a judgement that something is good, by the same discrimination, something must be evil. but even within a tautology, or self-identity (A=A), there are varying quantities of the same quality. thus, to speak of "more" or "less" progress is to necessitate what progress is and how it can be quantified. what is "more" progressive? communism or fascism? everyone says communism, but how do they qualify that statement. my contention is that progress is associated with goodness, therefore to many people, they become synonyms, so thats how it becomes defined. progress = good. regress = evil.

>>2267031
Start a separate thread

Is leftypol a treat? Are we all treatlers here?

>>2267053
Doesnt feel like it.

1.
2. What is considered "petit-bourgeois" and what isn't?
3. What is the difference between a Vanguard Party and an authoritarianship? Is it supposed to be dissolved once a state achieves socialism/communism, and if so what will the preceding government be?
4. What are fundamental differences in education of an functional AES in comparison to education within bourgeois systems? Is the curriculum more harder and extensive or is it dumbed down?
5. Besides food security and democratic participation, what do you feel are particular significant aspects of the Soviet Union that was omitted by Western education about them?
6. What do you or what does the site feel about imperialism? What line does a country need to cross regarding it's foreign policy to be considered imperialist?
7. What do you feel about Soviet collectivization? Was it wrong conceptually, could it be improved or were they right?

I understand it's not perfect. But I would much rather contribute to their economy than my own. Fuck Screamingeaglesland.

What do I need to do?

>>2266796
>since you are saying it has to happen
well it does, but in the sense thats just cause and effects on a large scale (aka historical materialism).

>justify everything

its not justification, its recognizing a process at work

>how do you determine what is "more" or "less" progressive between two historical tendencies

the one that solve the contradictions of the present historical conditions and move toward a new situation more adapted to the newer system of social production faster than the other. Bourgeois revolution were progressive because they allowed for the new mode of production (capitalism) to develop faster than under the old feudal relation, because they gave the political power to the people who now controlled an increasingly larger part of the total social production (bourgeois), resolving the contradiction between their weak political power and strong economic power (and the inverse for nobles). Which is why monarchic restorations were regressive, because they delayed the inevitable ("necessary") evolution of the superstructure following the new basis of production
Communists see socialism as similarly resolving the contradictions of capitalism, with its tendency toward monopolization and consolidation into larger firms eventually stifling further development on one hand, and the periodic crisis giving opportunity for the exploited masses to seize control of the means of productions and move toward communism, hence "progress" is now clearly a desirable thing. Which is why "progressive" is often associated with "good".
There is also the idea of "advancement of history" where the increase in technology and productive force gives opportunity for more freedom from material constraints and a better social reality for most (which I feel is more debatable, and is more the liberal conception of historical progress)

In school, they teach you "ABC". However, I think they should have instead taught us "IRS"

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>>2267608
>well it does
slavery must happen? theres no other way?
>its not justification
it is, because you are saying that its inevitable, therefore its better for it to happen now than later. the justification of historical slavery by marxists is based in this teleological determinism. if instead we said that its unnecessary, it has no justification.
>the one that solve the contradictions of the present historical conditions and move toward a new situation
right, so progress is "change", but as i say, why does change mean a change for the better? what is the value of "progress" if it only makes things worse?
>Communists see socialism as similarly resolving the contradictions of capitalism
so why has it failed where it has been tried?
>"progress" is now clearly a desirable thing. Which is why "progressive" is often associated with "good".
but how do you quantify the incriments of progress? all you are doing is making "progress" synonymous with goodness for rhetorics sake, not as a true inquiry. if progress is change, nuclear war is surely more "progressive" than communism, and progress in this way is absolutely undesirable.
>technology brings more freedom
both marx and j.s. mill see that "labour-saving devices" actually make us more enslaved to labour. where is the freedom? we work longer today than serfs ever did.

>>2267632
My school taught me bofa

>>2266794
>This is why instead of "progress" and "change" we often see Marxists talk about what is "historically necessary." Historically necessary means something very specific. It doesn't mean "good." For example Stalin said slavery was historically necessary to pull humans out of primitive communism:
You can only say something was historically necessary in retrospect, and only in that it's necessary to produce the present as it is. It's essentially the same logic as the meme about time traveling and moving a chair that causes the present to become radically different. The point is that the specifics of a given time are what determines the future afterward. It does not mean that there's a correct thing that must happen. It's the same issue of being tautological and sterile, because everything that happened in the past was historically necessary to produce the present that we have. It has no predictive power as an "is" nor instructive power as an "ought."

>>2268293
yet somehow communism is predestined…

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I don't agree with immigration policies for the west or think immigration can end well under capitalism if Asians and Indians are killed in Africa too, but the soc dems globally walking back on being pro migration and trying to out chud rightoids is a giant red flag that these people could never be trusted to hold a serious belief in economic policies either.

>>2268303
bro is fighting for votes he'll never get

Is the Holodomor generally accepted to be a thing that occurred here?

>>2268615
Depends on what you mean by "Holodomor", and "occured" and even then its probably split 30-70 right down the middle.

>>2268615
Its believed that a famine happened but not not a targeted one.

>>2268615
the famine, yes. the holodomor genocide is not accepted to be a thing anywhere. the academia largely rejects it, with only fringes still supporting it today. nazis are obsessed with it for some reason.

>>2268678
Its because its alliterative to Holocaust and makes their enemies looks at least as bad as they do.

>>2268615
Not really as famine was widespread across USSR instead of some kind of targeted ethnic genocide.

How come governments police to protests ?
Like genuinly whats the point why do they just not let it happen and avoid police violence

>>2184368
Alunya was made 2015ish, I think.

Italian Left Communists are opposed to national liberation movements on the basis that they believe they believe national liberation conflicts are bourgeois revolutions that lead to the development of chauvinistic, right wing nationalism, and also on the basis that they believe it splits the working class into factions for and against the national liberation struggle, when there needs to be a united working class focused on the need for a class war, a proletariat revolution instead.

With that said, what do they believe in regards to the Israel - Palestine conflict? In regards to the ongoing genocide? Because I haven't heard a single on of them speak up about it.
Maybe I've just missed it somehow, but do left coms actually support the liberation of Palestine? In what sense? Or what do they propose in place of it?

>>2267893
>slavery must happen? theres no other way?
it certainly seems so, given so many different human societies everywhere had them. The social reality of early agricultural production seem to lead everyone to slave societies.

>because you are saying that its inevitable, therefore its better for it to happen now than later

thats your judgement, saying it is an inevitable stage of social development (and only for agricultural societies, some human communities stayed hunter gatherers and didnt need slaves, but when agriculture is developed then those agricultural societies eventually take over) is not the same as saying it is better now than later, thats your morale speaking, and morality isnt an objective fact

>right, so progress is "change"

explicitly not, and I even provided you with a counter example with a regression. Similarly, USSR falling and those place going back to capitalism is also a regression.

>the value of "progress"

its not about its "value", its a reality of a historical process, a chemical reaction naturally "progress" but it has no inherent "value"
why we associate progress with good is because communist think for most life would be better under communism than capitalism, hence why progressing beyond capitalism is seen as valuable, but you can make the argument that progressing toward agricultural society at all was disastrous. The thing is it is too late for going back, its not how history of human societies work.

>so why has it failed

by many metrics it hasnt failed at all, what with creating superpowers from feudal shitholes, lifting millions out poverty and ignorance, carrying out massive industrialization, ending colonialism, but the conditions were apparently not good enough yet for the success to last. First french republic was also destroyed at first.
But just compare india and china today to see how effective and successful the communist model still is.

>all you are doing is making "progress" synonymous with goodness for rhetorics sake, not as a true inquiry.

not at all, its not just rhetoric, I sincerely believe implementing socialism would be for the benefit of the vast majority, and thus that all progress towards it is good.

>if progress is change

already addressed, thats just your strawman

>where is the freedom

I agree and thats why I called it a liberal idealist view. But technology certainly has the potential to improve lives (and in some case, like medicine, objectively does improve lives already), its just even more dependent on social progress and organization (hence why we pursue communism)

>we work longer today than serfs ever did

to be fair, farm work was also back breaking, and their food was kinda shit and not very varied, and they were even more at the mercy of their master. But yes, capitalist society still suck.

>>2268615
no

>>2268823
to discourage protesters, challenge their resolve, train their security forces, and accuse them of violence themselves, and also allow arrests and prosecutions

>>2269731
>they believe national liberation conflicts are bourgeois revolutions
yes they mostly are (although many also had strong socialist elements), but this is still usually a net improvement for the people

>lead to the development of chauvinistic, right wing nationalism

theyd rather have a bunch of explicit comprador doing the bidding of their colonial masters?

>it splits the working class into factions for and against the national liberation struggle

sounds retarded, nothing is as uniting politically as national liberation struggles

>there needs to be a united working class focused on the need for a class war, a proletariat revolution

trying to get this without doing national liberation when its also needed is doomed to failure. You need to sell both.

cant speak for italians leftcoms, but most communist would agree national liberation is a needed first step

Good books that show the reality of living under communism? I mean non fiction books that show how was life under communism, without much moral judgment, just straight facts.

>>2270169
>slavery must happen
have you considered that slavery is often imposed on people without an internal system developing of its own accord? prisoners of war are often made slaves.
>i provided examples of regression
where?
>progress is a determined fact of things
so how do you explain regress?
>socialism never failed
sure, its achievements were bringing capitalism to russia and china
>the communist model still is
so china is communist? how?

>>2270169
You raise a good point. Most Italian LeftComs oppose national liberation on the basis that it's a type of bourgeois revolution, but they ignore even a bourgeois revolution can lead to greatly improved conditions, and they ignore that many national liberation movements are left wing or socialist to a degree even of not full on communists.
It's like they're unable of comprehending that you can have both national liberation and class struggle simultaneously, they think it's a one or the other choose which is a false dichotomy.

Piracy is leftist, yes?

>>2270946
i dont see how it has political content
ethically however, you can make the case

>>2270946
>I’m a leftist
>I pirate
piracy is leftist, yes

How can self employed workers be petit porkies when they dont exploit anyones labor? They get 100% of the surplus value themselves.

>>2271016
if they make profit, they exploit their own labour

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how does this work?

>>2271229
what do you think would happen if a third world country, geographically close to india and the strait of malacca, tied to the BRI, declared a proletarian dictatorship?

>>2271242
So what they're just not allowed to be socialist?

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>>2271023
>they exploit their own labour

>>2271016
>why are freelancers who don't even put up a pretense of proletarian association petit-bourgeois

>>2271242
So the coward theory vs actually just socdems theory. A lil bit of both really.

What happened to the Cockshott AMA, did he pussy out? I wanted to ask him if he'd fuck Buck Angel or Bailey Jay

>>2276629
You missed it
>>2276372

I tried reading theory, and some of it is fine, but some authors like to show off using lots of big fancy words for the hell of it, and complex terminology that makes me confused and also hurts my tiny little head.
How do I get smarter so I can read advanced, complex theory? Without feeling like i'm developing a migraine / seizure / falling asleep 3 pages deep?
Is there some kind of exercise I can do to increase my intellectual capacity?

>>2276729
use dictionaries. every time you want to get very-well versed in a topic, to the point of their respective professionals, without having a degree, pick dictionaries for such fields.
philosophy isn't that complicated when you get to know the words.
also, put the books in their historical context: Who are they addressing, what event are they addressing; that also works.

are salesmen, who make some base salary but also earn a commission per sale, proletarian? should salesmen unionize?

>>2276960
gonna repost those in the PDF thread if they aren't already there, thanks

Is market socialism a good idea and it is compatiable with communism?

>>2280683
Lenin himself created it so its in line with Marxism-Leninism.

I remember reading about an african revolutionary that got killed by southafrican mercs in a movie like scene, of finding him with pot in the attempted coup. Can't remember who it was.


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