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>>2429628Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740—————————————————–
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>>2437984Mindbroken cope.
You lose.
>>2437931looks a funeral suit
you can clearly tell his PR department told him "okay this time you have to wear a suit but you can't the message to your people that you bark at their every whim, so go all black that's a good middle ground between a suit and normal star wars empire chique attire"
>>2438069>>2438076Stealth ACP freaks
>>2438102Invasion of Canada when?
>>2438157He's putting on his serious face.
I'm convinced he genuinely does want to be known as a "peacemaker." If only to outdo Obama. (Who didn't deserve the nobel peace prize in the first place)
>>2437645well, they are doing it out of outflanking fascistically, then. Hungary has a lot of grievances with the ethnic minority law from 2019, where, alongside with the Russians, the bandera regime decided the Magyars in Ukraine are not relevant.
Also, I remember in the first day of the forced mobilization, Magyars were the main forced group to go die into the war, alongside with Gypsies.
>>2438132finally submitted to the BBS, big black suit.
>>2438240It may not be as disreputable as being an open pedo like the amerifats with their Epstein shit. But this guy is literally married to a woman that was his teacher and groomed him as a teenager. He was 15 and she was 40. Like… how can you retain any dignity with that fact in the open
Especially being seen in public with the million year old hag.
>>2438343I think most of them look like dweebs but Macron and Meloni know how to carry themselves around Trump. Meloni seems to find him funny. It's the Latin types. Starmer and the Germans are all awkward and nerdy.
>>2438326>But this guy is literally married to a woman that was his teacher … Like… how can you retain any dignity with that fact in the openThe trick is to not give a fuck in the first place. Other politicians would try to hide it and then it would come out anyways and that would look bad.
>>2438446I can't fathom how absurd the situation is, where the main part in the war is discussing a settlement as a mediator. It's so weird, and it's weird that people in the west doesn't find it weird, and I find it weird that no one talks it as something weird.
fucking exceptionalist shit…
>>2438668There's going to be another economic crash. Every time there's a recession Ameritards are 100% guaranteed to flip parties regardless of polling and media cope.
>1980 Volcker Shock and Oil Crisis Carter(D) to Reagan(R)>1990 recession Bush Senior(R) to Clinton(D) >2000 Dot Com Bubble Clinton(D) to Bush(R)>2008 Financial Crash Bush(R) to Obama(D)>2020 Covid Trump(R) to Biden(D)Crashes around once a decade on average based off the last few. By next election it's going to be Nov 2028 almost 2029. Given that Trump is boosting crypto so much I'm thinking it's probably going to be something related to crypto somehow causing a massive downturn.
>2028/29 Crypto Crash(?) Trump(R) to ???(D) >>2438692Russian World: When you want to LARP as a based Republican but were born in Russia instead :(
Seriously modern RF is somehow a million times more pathetic than even Tsarist Russia. At least Tsarist Russia was its own thing. Modern Russia looked at Fox News and decided that was utopia.
Russia never set goal of seizing territories — Foreign Minister Lavrov
"I want to stress once again that we never spoke about seizing any territories. Neither Crimea, nor Donbass, nor Novorossiya as territories have ever been our goal," Lavrov said in an interview with Russia’s Rossiya-24 television channel.
"Our goal was to protect the people, the Russian people, who had lived on these lands for centuries, who discovered these lands, shed their blood for them both in Crimea and in Donbass, founded cities - Odessa, Nikolayev and many others as well as ports, plants and factories," he stated.
https://tass.com/politics/2004507 >>2439039yes. he bragged during the 2020 presidential run, under the second debate between him and biden, that he did
more than anyone against Russia, arming ukraine, sanctioning
like nobody else did, etc.
so yes, the US was heading towards a military confrontation, whether it was biden or trump. besides, in this term trump bragged about the nord-stream pipeline destruction, as it were his own machination from the first term.
>>2439187because he's hiding that they were allies of the nazis. probably because of that. oh definitively it is.
>>2439243lmao, the fiction surpassed by
reality fiction.
A funeral for an Ukrainian Anarchist that died fighting on the front lines fighting Russia was attacked by a pro-Russian group based in Ukraine
>David Chichkan, one of Ukraine’s most prominent contemporary artists, whose life and work were inseparable from his devotion to the ideals of anarchism, has died while fighting Russian forces, according to Ukraine’s Ministry of Culture and Strategic Communications.
<“In his youth, David joined the Antifa movement. He lived and died as an anti-fascist. As an anarchist, he considered war to be the culmination of anti-human power. But he went to the front because he saw that Russia was destroying all freedom, human dignity, and diversity … Like Nestor Makhno, like the anarchists during the Spanish Civil War, he understood that sometimes one must fight for the future with weapons in hand.”https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2025/08/13/ukrainian-artist-david-chichkan-killed-on-frontline>>2439330>A funeral for an Ukrainian Anarchist that died fighting on the front lines fighting Russia was attacked by a pro-Russian group based in UkraineGood. Fuck him. I spit on his grave.
These 'anarchists' who went to defend the state in Ukraine only proof exactly how much subculture is a cancer to radical politics, a lot of these guys basically only being in to radical politics as it was an accessory to their punk subcultural nonsense.
>>2439493oh, you are right, I skimmed the news posts.
I like how this post forgets to say that nikitin swore allegiance to ukraine.
it's almost as if nikitin just flew from Moscow to specifically be present at the funeral in Kiev, lmao.
>>2439512These 'anti ascists' and 'anarchists' are going to end up in a torture basement as soon as the war is over.
I have sincere trouble believing how anyone could be so naive. Anarcho-punks should be shot on sight.
>>2439522Know what else i have sincere trouble believing? How this fat fuck is supposed to be a soldier. jfc.
who are all the pies?. who are all the pies? this fat bastard. this fat bastard. this fat bastard at all the pies.
>>2438730If Russia does want to take Odessa, it will be done with little to no fighting, with Ukraine throwing all they have at them along the way, by the time the russian military even reaches Odessa, whatever is left of the Ukrainian military, will be closer to a pack of ragamuffins, than to an army. Depending on whether or not there is a mass revolt, coup, or Russia just grows impatient to end it, I'd say in the last quarter of 2026, to the second of 2027, at the absolute latest.
>>2438725>The only time they weren't blindly worshippping western bullshit, whether that's Goethe or hamburgers, was in the USSR.I thought they liked Goethe.
Russia is the West's shadow-self. Before the USSR, they preserved the West's feudal past. A lot of Western "high" art was highly regarded in the USSR from Shakespeare to classical composers. Socialist realism continued from classical realism. They were preserving that while the West was moving into modernism and abstraction.
>>2439890>>2438725>>2438733>I like Renaissance paintings<CUCK! YOU ARE NOTHING! A SHADOW ON THE WALL! ALSO YOU HAVE A COMPLEX BECAUSE OF THESE BROWN MENCan't people just enjoy culture ffs. This is what I mean when I say you fuckers are not good faith. This kind of shit is indistinguishable from what a historical Nazi or current european liberal would say.
What do you expect a country that takes up half of the European continent to do, not enjoy European culture? Are Europeans a shadow of the mighty Greece because they were obsessed with their culture for centuries? Is it gay for French people to read Hegel? This is absurd.
>>2439981 (me)
I will acknowledge that current Russian ruling class takes a lot of inspiration from America, but that is much more easily attributable to the fact that America is the model capitalist country. It is detestable but it's not any of this pop psychology bullshit. Neither was it any of the things you describe for so many countries across the world to take inspiration from the Soviet Union.
>>2439952Counterattacking here required pulling reserves off from konstantinovka, Torestsk, ect. where again russian forces are now pushing.
The strategic arithmetic remains the same; Ukraine's reserves have been bled white to the point they do not have the mass to hold the present frontline. Plugging the gap here required thinning the line elsewhere.
Frankly speaking a shock breakthrough by light infantry on pokrovsks' flank became an internet/pr catalyst. Motivating a counter pr deployment of azov to plug it and create a counter circlejerk as its pushed back. Slop armchair warfare at its finest. Situation remains unchanged.
>>2439970Well I think that rando talking about Russia entering NATO is dumb. But I don't think the current state of enmity is going to last forever.
>>2439981I wasn't judging. One thing I'd say to liberals about Stalinism is that even if you hate it, it conceived itself as part of the Enlightenment tradition (like the French Revolution) which the Europeans decided was bad all of a sudden. You think Soviet families read Marxist-Leninist stuff? Not that much. They read Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, Jules Verne and other treasures of Western literature. Now they listen to Limp Bizkit.
>>2440058nta but both are true and in fact two sides of the same coin - judeobolshevia promised proles paradise if they only forsake civilisation in lieu of >global revolution and >international communes, jewish (neo-)liberalism promises the new poor paradise if they only forsake civilisation in lieu of >invisible hand of the market and >international councils
same target, same promise, same spooks, new branding
(Rule 12 - idpol spooks) >>2440266>>2439855I know, I know
>ADLbut
<DUMBs, short for Deep Underground Military Bases, refers to a conspiracy theory that children being trafficked by the Deep State are being held in secret military bases underground. Conspiracy theorists believe earthquakes are caused by members of the military freeing children from these bases and arresting members of the Deep State.lol, lmao
>>2440270lmao, we're reaching old religions level of ways to explain the world, our pharaoh is not the son of the god that have the sun on its chariot, but our government angels do make the earthquakes happen when fighting to save the child sacrifice to the government demons
nobody seriously believe that, its just a meme thrown around right? who can take a seriously a theory literally named as a backronym of dumb
>Can someone explain the dip of Latvians in the beginning?WW2 doesn't count since in the graph, it didn't affect the Russians.
ALSO,,,,,
THIS IS BAD
https://xcancel.com/Alex_Oloyede2/status/1958136624526618980#m >>2440577>but the fact is that the United States is slipping and if the trend continues and if the US turns its back on the EU and becomes like Russia it will cease to be a country that the rest of the world feels confident investing their moneyholy cope. the EU doesn't have the IMF, the UN offices, and the WTO offices.
in fact, the EU just kneels. what do I say, kneeling… BEND, the EU bends, so much they can tongue their anuses.
>but the fact is that the United States is slipping and if the trend continues and if the US turns its back on the EU and becomes like Russia it will cease to be a country that the rest of the world feels confident investing their moneyhere we have the powerful EU crown jewel, germany, bending to biden on the 7th of February 2022, when biden threatened to "end" nordstream if Russia were to invade the UA.
lo and behold,
>>2440585 (me) comes Sikorski and celebrates it.
oh yeah, the smartest nafo.
>>2440577>GDP brainThe EU empirically lacks the manufacturing capacity to independently sustain a proxy war on its own frontier, the political will to mobilize further recourses in a salient amount of time. Its financial sector (that balloons its gdp) relies on a macro economy of international supply chains, enforced and tacitly undergirded by US hard power that its own militaries (lacking sufficient expeditionary capacity) cannot enforce.
If your claims were true then it would have been counterfactually observed by this economic juggernaut crushing its eastern peripheral rival in its own right and not cucking out to US manufacturers.
In another world perhaps it builds itself up as a self sufficient emergent rival from the 90's onwards. As observed it sees the declining America in front of it and decides to tie itself to the sinking ship; relying on its arms manufacturers, natural gas and soon-to-be automobile industry access. It will sink or swim in parallel to American prospects
In a single sentence, the EU you believe in would not plausibly be in the position its in now to begin with.
>>2440621To drill down to economic first principles a capitalist globalized economy requires a navy and army large enough to enforce western shareholders stake in south America, African and Asian primary (extraction) and secondary (manufacturing) industries to fuel the tertiary (service/finance) sector western economies. lest the third world monopolize local force to nationalize and/or sell the shares off to a bidding competitor re.china in their own competitive interest. The state of the American economy or diplomatic trust are irrelevant factors to the grim reality that they are the only navy in town apart from China that can enforce property rights overseas necessary for profitable extraction.
Thus an independent EU would need to start a decades-long USN sized naval project to protect its cheap mineral and manufacturing imports (such as francafrique or SEA) that should have started 3 decades ago to even begin to compete and they aren't even close to trying now. You are correct in your identification of lagging US prestige but they will remain the only (albeit unruly) game in town without an ideological/geopolitical shift unacceptable to its current power base.
A hypothetically independent EU financial sector would have no recourse nor leverage to protect its profit margins from overseas suppliers upping their price or becoming economic satellites of China or a now intra-competitive US.
>>2440653"ending the war" = agreeing to the West's terms/ultimatums
"come to the negotiating table" also = the same thing.
"a just peace" also = the same thing
i love the way the westlibs use language
>>2440599>a sense of trustnah, they just needed dollars to get oil and then everyone had dollars so it was convenient
>free and stable society where business can thrivelmao who the fuck cares, and what kind of retarded idiot believe the usa is a "free and stable society" anyway
>United States backslides into authoritarianism its like claiming the sea will backslide into wetness
>destroys its public reputation anyone not in the west already know they're hypocritical bloodthirsty powermongers
>the dirt with the dogs, i.e. allying with Russiabro hate to break to you, but US are currently allied with israel (which is in active genocide), saudi arabia, and always loved to support all kind of fucked up governments much worse than russia, and they wont ally with russia anyway. The only ones with the hateboner toward russia are the west.
>>2440699The list is incomplete. You can help by
expanding it.
>>2440641>Thus an independent EU would need to start a decades-long USN sized naval project to protect its cheap mineral and manufacturing imports (such as francafrique or SEA) that should have started 3 decades ago to even begin to compete and they aren't even close to trying now. You are correct in your identification of lagging US prestige but they will remain the only (albeit unruly) game in town without an ideological/geopolitical shift unacceptable to its current power base.Europe's been locked in with the USA since 2022. No matter how much they and Canada may pretend, you can't do Atlanticism without the USA. There actually
was a way for Europe to stand on its own but that way was through Russia and that ship has sailed to China. The EU countries would also have to effectively cede the rest of their sovereignty to Bruxelles and that's not happening.
>>2440699>All the slates of the "victims of Communism" are blank.Honestly the most accurate victim count.
>>2440826Agent Krasnov strikes again
Seriously though, US is now spanking it's vassals with the Russia's hand to make them fall in line even further
I know this will not be popular here but here it goes. On a strategic level, the USA has won. They got from this war everything that they could possibly hope for, so at this point the longer the war drags on the only thing that can happen is that they lose things that they already have. That's why they want to put it to an end, there is no upside for them anymore, they've won. If this drags on, all that can happen is potential territorial losses for ukraine and prestige/image damage for USA if Russia advances more. So of course they don't want to keep going. Best play here is to get your chips off the table and take your gains home.
What has the US gained?
>They have eliminated nearly all energy pipeline routes going from Russia to Western europe. These changes are in all likelihood permanent no matter what happens in negotiations.
>Replaced it with US LNG.
>Opened an alternative corridor for pipelines going from the Caspian sea to Europe, making sure the cheaper Russian gas never entices the europeans again. Also cut off the most important land route between Russia and Iran in the process and put a US footprint in the region.
>They put Nato right on Russia's largest border all the way to the arctic.
>They overthrew the Russia-friendly government in Syria and put their own puppet instead, a gas pipeline going through it and into turkey and europe will likely be built there. Further wedging europe and russia from ever building meaningful economics ties again.
>They have made Europeans spend a fortune buying US weapons, which will continue after the war with the newly increased Nato quotas.
>They got Europeans to pay a single sided 15% tariff on all exports to US.
>An anti-Russian puppet government has been put in Moldova, and to some degree in Romania.
>Most of all, they have successfully obtained a highly militarized puppet state right on Russia's most critical border with no natural defense in between. A state who has tremendous hatred for Russia and who will obey any commands from their masters once the war is over and can be used to put pressure on Russia in various ways whenever it will be needed. A state who can be used to conduct assassinations inside Russia with plausible deniability. But most of all, a state that will force Russia to maintain a much larger peacetime army than they needed before.
What has Russia gained?
>A land bridge to Crimea and the remainder of Donbass.
>>2440894nah, you're cherry picking and coping.
on the "US gained" stuff almost all valid points are about enslaving Europe and splitting Russia and Europe. That's all true but it comes at a cost of strengthening the Russia/China alliance. The original point of the war was to collapse Russia because it refused to break with China. It has instead pushed them closer together. The same is now happening with India and Iran.
Also some of your points are reaching. The stuff about the Caspian hasn't happened yet. There are "plans". We'll see how things actually unfold. And Moldova already had an anti-Russian puppet gov.
The reality is that the US and NATO had already been expanding their control over the globe for 30 years before the SMO. That was ultimately the point, finally drawing a line at Ukraine. You can't just frame any global "win" for the empire as the result of the SMO because they were already getting periodic wins and expanding their control in various places before.
And the big one, they're losing Ukraine. They're losing the only proxy they had that could actually even think of waging a war against a power like Russia, and that the spent a decade building.
Yes they're trying to freeze the war now, but that's not going to happen. Instead it's going to "drag on" and they're going to "lose things they already have". The biggest thing, as far as proxies go.
Then comes the Russia gains. This list could be a lot longer. As noted above, what they have lost in Europe they have gained in China and BRICS. Europe was ultimately an albatross because you can't sustain a productive partnership with someone that wants you dead and is constantly looking for ways and taking steps to bring that about. Realigning to China and the global South has long term potential and they've now done it successfully. They have also stared down the economic warfare of the west and the kinetic proxy warfare of the west and defeated both. They have effectively demilitarized NATO and severely weakened the US ability to wage proxy wars like Ukraine (they have little weapons left to spare). They have shown to the world that you can refuse to be bullied and come out fine (India, China, Iran and others have taken notes). They have also seen off colour revolution attempts in Georgia and elsewhere.
Could go on. It's not all positive or all negative for either side. But a good rule of thumb is that the fighter begging for a time-out is the one that's losing.
>>2440917Wouldn't even bother replying
Points argue US has footing for retrenchment which was not the goal of the Ukraine war
The shift to a multipolar world as the Western international system continues to fray is the most measurable way of estimating defeat
If the US was seeking peace because it actually won, you'd see it in the news not on the internet. Instead the news is plastered with evidence of dread as Trump and Putin talk, which is not at all what the West set out to achieve in 2022
>>2440851what's interesting if they plan to say so, then begs the question: why 360 billion dollars in 3 years, worth of military and economic assistance provided by the US and the EU haven't retaken the 1%?
oh well, these questions never appear inside their heads.
https://www.zdfheute.de/politik/ausland/nordstream-angriff-festnahme-ukraine-krieg-russland-100.htmlthey are sooooo fixated in blaming ukraine lmao
this operation was set up in washington, and they are pretenging ukraine did it.
>>2441165You want something even funnier? Check this out.
Dunno how many people remember, but back in 2022 the maps being posted in western media didn't look like this. (1st & 2nd - with 2nd one being from a small nationalist outlet at the time) I don't recall a single one showing Sumy and Chernihiv being fully captured. It was a spiderweb of corridors. And much of what is depicted as "captured" in Kharkov, Nikolaev and north of Kiev was listed as contested.
Now check old tweets referring maps posted by outlets like FT at the time. (3rd)
https://x.com/sdbernard/status/1497903624067981314
>2022<Pretend Russians barely captured anything>2025<Pretend Russians captured way more than what was claimed at the time >>2441186Nearly 1.300 days into the war and fascist bootlicker cope is that the Russian army was akshually too weak to even attempt assaulting Kyiv
Muscovite imperialist losers are so fucking pathetic
>>2441200it's funny they project that Russia was self-imposing on the SMO unrealistic goals, but when, conveniently forgetting that ukraine self-imposed the unrealistic goal of retaking Crimea by 2023.
KEKnever fails to amuse me how their drooling brains work.
>>2441204 (me)
straight from the IDF source:
>I had the opportunity of getting to know a large group of new immigrants from the former Soviet Union. As an immigrant to Israel myself, I had been drafted to serve a brief stint in the Israel Defense Forces along with other similar new immigrants who were older than regular army age. The vast majority of my fellow soldiers were from the former Soviet Union. Due to the great disparity between the number of immigrants to Israel from the Soviet Union and from my native United States, it is easy to see why I found myself serving an army unit almost exclusively with Russians. >>2441194>missing the point entirely awardNot what I was referring to at all. I'm talking about how western media/journalists are now going out of their way to exaggerate the extend of the Russian occupation in 2022 in order to make Ukraine's current position look better, when back in 2022 they was downplaying it considerably and insisting on places being contested even if they were long overrun.
Not surprised this shortcircuited your eurolib brain however. You people are obviously not coping with the loss of western hegemony very well. Even less so than burger libs even.
>1300 days!1!!Anyway, hows the "48 hour anti-terrorist operation" going? Not so good last I've heard…
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26953113 >>2441204No. I'm stating it isn't over until one side has fallen or there is a definitive peace agreement or armistice.
The NVA (not to be confused with the Viet Cong or Viet Minh) btw were equipped with modern weapons, including jets, tanks and anti-aircraft missiles.
Like in the case of Afghanistan, during the conflict there were also numerous attempts at armistices, ceasefires, peace agreements. They still won in the end.
Now I know the experience with Desert Storm and Iraq in 2003 has rotten many westoid brains. But most conflicts, when they do not end within a few weeks, are more like brutal wars of attrition.
The Syrian Government had weapons, but they ran out of people willing to fight. Same goes for the pre-2021 government of Afghanistan.
At this rate, something similar will happen to Ukraine. Maybe it will last two or three more years. But unless there's a revolution or civil war in Russia, or direct EU military intervention, we're going to see Ukraine have it's Saigon/Kabul/Karabakh moment before the end of the decade.
Or you know, they could take the deal they were offered. But I doubt they will (it's already been changed to no recognition of territorial changes, immediate NATO membership in all but name, and no making Russian an official language of Ukraine again).
>>2441230>Putin is smiling>Corn lord is stoned (or drunk)Does orange faggot really want to go down like Nixon?
Really bro?
You want to resign?
>A 26-year-old Russian who protested against Putin’s regime has been found dead in London after his asylum bid was rejected. Alexander Frolov was found dead in Acton, west London, on July 28, after waiting for more than a year for an appeal hearing. His friends said they believe he took his own life due to the mental strain and feeling hopeless at the thought of being sent back to Russia. Alexander originally came to the UK under a temporary visa as an agricultural worker in 2021. But when Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, he could not return home because he ‘refused to take part in killing people’, his friend Galina Shakirova said. Alexander submitted his asylum application in December 2022, but it was rejected in April 2024, according to the I. She said he was ‘kind, generous, quietly dependable’, but proving oppression to the UK Home Office was hard. ‘Imagine being an opposition activist who knows that returning home almost certainly means prison. You’ve spoken out publicly. You’ve worked with organisations labelled in Russia as “undesirable” or “extremist”,’ she said. ‘Then you ask for protection – hoping for safety, for a chance to survive. And instead, you’re refused.’ The Home Office said: ‘It is our long-standing policy not to comment on individual cases.’ Another 465 have been refused, and 154 are awaiting decisions. Of these, 98 have been waiting longer than six months. Meanwhile there are thought to be 1,500 political prisoners in Russia. Many have been prosecuted for anti-war activities, with the Kremlin only recently allowing Russians to describe the invasion of Ukraine as a war – instead forcing them to say a ‘tactical military operation’.
You killed him! You have blood on your hands.
>>2441207I think you've missed the point. Your bootlicking knows no ends fascist scum.
The rate of fascist advance is pitifully slow and extremely costly in lives and rubbles after the winter of 2022. Russians have moved to occupy about 1% of Ukraine per year for the price of hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers and trillions upon trillions of lost rubles all the while the country crumbles and whores itself out to China.
>>2441357Navalny is such a loser everytime someone brings him up the only thing they think about is
>Oh yeah Sisyan is dead nowHe took the baton from boris nemtsov so kek.
Still I feel sad for that kid. That's what happens when you watch radio liberty.
>>2441381yeah, unlike, ukraine, nafo.
because when they had queues, early in 2022, people hadn't left. now they don't have shortages because half the country left, was conscripted, or got too impoverished to have a car, and still they'll have to pay in 2026 double they are paying now.
>>2441392I was not going to accept from the ghost of kiev people that Best Korea sent some sort of military force. They never posted any real credible information of Korean POWs.
So DPRK involvement, was not direct.
And besides they participated:
BASED.
>>2441461I knew it was going to start a military operation once Putin declared sovereignty of the Donbas region, kek.
>>2441483not even western media believes it:
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-were-dead-russian-soldiers-packed-meat-cubes-belgorod-1811539but here we are, 2025, and people still post the meme. clowns practicing for the circus, I guess.
>Despite the objective component of the channel - nevertheless, of course, there are many armchair hat-throwers here, who have one motto - we must go to the end … Here are options from the entire left bank, to Odessa, Kyiv and Lvov. I have a question for them - do you remember how long we have been encircling Pokrovsk? Well, in the style of Podolyaki daily - almost surrounded, the Ukrainian front is cracking, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are in agony … plus OSINT on our destroyed sabotage and reconnaissance groups makes its contribution … Plus disinformation from the hohols … But let's just factually on the timing - remind yourself - how long have we been encircling Pokrovsk? Therefore, for me, the laughter from Zelensky's words about 4 years to take Donbass seems strange. You won't believe it, with each month it only gets more difficult, since the small sky is behind the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
>The advance has slowed down from the southern side. For what reason? I won't write, but everything has stopped. All these paint jobs almost in the city center were by sabotage and reconnaissance groups, at the moment they have rolled back closer to Leontovichi, and Chunishino is still not taken. The khokhlos, as usual, have created a couple of kill zones that cannot be passed (marked in white).
>There is still hope for a closure from above, but even there the guys are moving very slowly, and there is also a small sky behind the khokhlo.
>Well, and about the breakthrough. I think no one knows for sure right now. The breakthrough was made so that information would not leak out. But, of course, after the khokhloroliks appeared, the information got into the network. Personally, I think our people are unlikely to be present in Zolotoy Kolodez, the question is about Kucherov Yar…"
>>2441371Pathetic. Even by NAFO lib standards. I know this is a defense mechanism on your part to not have to engage with anything said ITT, but you're not very good at pretending you're not coping.
My original post has nothing to do with "bootlicking fascist regimes" or whatever you think is going on in Russia. It's about western media manipulating the narrative instead of doing honest reporting. I.e. retroactively claiming the Russian occupation was much greater in extend in 2025, when they were going out of their way to deny it's extend in 2022. I even posted explicit proof of this in the form of the maps used by news outlets like the FT at the time.
>is pitifully slow and extremely costly in livesAll the same could have been said for the Taliban, NVA/Vietcong and the Azerbaijani military before 2021. It doesn't matter. They still won. Their opponents capitulated. Afterwards the cope is always the same.
<Our enemies were barbaric hordes who overwhelmed us with numbers and didn't value human life!Another fun example is recent reports Russian recruitment has fallen to a two year low. With supposedly less than ~200,000 volunteers signing contracts in the first half of this year. But this begs the question, if Zelensky himself is claiming the Russian army has only growing along the front lines, and some contracts simply end after 6 months, and not everyone who signs up for professional service is guaranteed to serve in the "SMO" zone, how is it feasible for the AFU to kill up to 1,000 invaders (or more!) a day, excluding critically wounded, and enemy troop numbers to still increase during this time?
Of course, critical thinking demands this makes no sense, and one side must be lying here.
Pointing this out has got nothing to do with "bootlicking fascists".
And as the other poster said. If hundreds of billions of dollars didn't succeed in Ukraine recapturing even 1% of the remaining occupied territory after 2022, what does this mean if this war has to be fought until victory? What do European workers gain by doing this?
>whores itself out to a Marxist Leninist stateDon't care.
>>2441600>This is not truehttps://tvpworld.com/88416801/russia-sees-lowest-military-recruitment-in-two-yearsThe map is irrelevant btw to the point I was originally making, which has nothing to do with whatever "slow" progress happened in the past year. It's about retroactively changing the "facts" years down the line (the extend of the Russian occupation in 2022) in order to serve a particular narrative. And this is but one example.
You should also check the Vietnam front line video I posted, there were years were seemingly nothing happened… And then Saigon fell. Same with Afghanistan and Nagorno Karabakh. I remember the "two weeks" headlines three years ago (in regards to Russian ammo including missiles running out). And "Kyiv in 3 days" (Which btw, was a statement by US Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley, not an official statement by the Russian government, Russian propagandists or an anonymous quote attributed to Russians officials)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/gen-milley-says-kyiv-could-fall-within-72-hours-if-russia-decides-to-invade-ukraine-sourcesLook, I know you're not arguing in good faith, and like a typical (nationalist) reactoid you're only out to intimidate, it's not going to work.
Ukraine is losing. You can argue about how fast they're losing, and how many millions of orcs they're slaughtering in the process, but they're still losing. And about the only way to stop further territorial losses and eventual capitulation is a deal. Which evidently, isn't going to be made because European powers are hellbent on continuing the war, and are now introducing numerous poison pills ensuring the final version will be completely unacceptable. Even if there is a risk of Trump abandoning Ukraine as a result.
A good leader would have negotiated an end to this at the end of 2022 when the Ukrainian position was at its strongest, and the Russian position was at its weakest. Alas, we're now in 2025, and any deal being proposed now, even from the European side, is worse than what was offered in March 2022.
It's no surprise the Finnish president brought up 1944. Mannerheim saved Finland from annihilation. But Ukraine today has no Mannerheim willing to take the L to save the state, so my prediction is, sometime before 2030 we'll see this end like Afghanistan, South Vietnam and Nagorno-Karabakh.
This has nothing to do with endorsing the Russian state or whether or not it is fascist. And if you cannot separate critique of western media reporting, or predicting how this war will end from endorsing the Russian government, then safe to say, you're a moron.
>>2441677Red Army logistics weren't set upon by thousands of drones daily up to two dozen kilometers behind the zero line, with these drones able to be launched anywhere, and many being capable of destroying or disabling heavy armor.
There's some adaption already which is why we're seeing the return of big pushes, and even the AFU able to recapture some areas quickly.
Extreme maneuver wars require the main instrument (cataphracts and medieval mounted knights, tanks during WW2, aircraft during the Gulf War) to be somewhat difficult to counter except by deploying more of them on your own side.
Allied aircraft dominated the skies above Germany at the end of 1944 and in 1945 because there didn't exist reliable mass produced anti-aircraft missiles to counter them. (Though there was research into them already at this time) And generally the only effective counter against enemy aircraft was more aircraft of one's own. The same went for tanks.
By the time of Vietnam things had changed a bit already, and the terrain wasn't suitable to big armor pushes in coordination with close air support anyway. But the Gulf War offered large open flat terrain where Coalition armor was able to out range Iraqi tanks, and the latest western tech in aircraft and sheer numbers were able to overcome the air defenses in Iraq.
This is also why Desert Storm has "rotten" westoid brains, because the way this war was conducted was already an anomaly at the time. And thinking this was going to work everywhere and that infantry AT capabilities (be it guided or Fire-and-Forget missiles, or drones nowadays) wouldn't advance further, or that ground based anti-aircraft capabilities would never be capable of being an effective counter, was in hindsight, idiotic. As was the assumption that the Arabian desert wasn't a particular environment suited to this specific form of warfare.
Another interesting bit is that satellite guided bombs and missiles have diminished in importance due to the rampant jamming. So there's again a stronger focus on inertial guidance.
>>2441712
Where's the copium? Are you arguing the AFU isn't slowly losing ground?
>lies
It's a Polish news outlet lel
>oh wait numbers don't matter because you're too fucking stupid to understand them.
What are you on about? Go ahead and post the numbers. You again fail to consider my central point: Maybe there is higher recruitment, but the argument Russia is running out of steam because people aren't signing up, and also they have a gazillion fatalities, doesn't follow. Because there's also Ukrainian statements, by officials, including Zelensky, about how the size of the Russian army within the occupied territories is growing.
Look, if you want to call the tvpworld article fascist pro-Russian lies that's fine. I don't think they're pro-Russian considering their content but whatever.
But this is article is now being posted around as proof Ruzzia is losing or something. But again, it doesn't follow when taking into account the other statements. Either the article is wrong, or claimed Russian casualties and fatalities (Cargo 200 etc) are wrong.
>Fascist vermin deflecting completely unprompted
It's another example of nonsense reported in western media. It's stuff uncritically reported and reposted across western media (at the time) as fact. This is what I'm critiquing. It's the same deal with the comparison maps going around currently; Maps which were rejected at the time (2022) as pro-Kremlin narratives, are now being brought up to bolster the perceived success of the AFU in the meantime.
No I don't care what lunatics like Solovyov were or are saying. The point is the "Kyiv in 3 days" is something Mark Milley brought up. But is now attributed as having been the official position of the Russian government in early 2022.
The rest of the post is simply stating the deal they're being offered now is worse than the one offered in March 2022, and that not negotiating from a position of strength at the end of 2022 (After Kharkiv, etc) was a mistake. One can for example argue that the threat of a counter-offensive itself could have been a useful bargaining chip. Instead it foiled, which diminished the perception of the effectiveness and capabilities of the AFU and its western backers.
I also brought up Mannerheim, who was brought up by the President of Finland indirectly with Trump, when he started talking about 1944, as someone who successfully saved his state from annihilation by accepting a deal at the time. Which was worse than the one offered to Kyiv in 2022, and I'm convinced, also worse than whatever deal they could have gotten in late 2022 or early 2023.
Dunno what that has to do with copium. It's a bit of history, as well as examples of where the lack of a settlement or peace agreement resulted in states/governments ceasing to exist.
>>2441752
Like you may think this is major gotcha, but again, we might as well bring up Vietnam. Millions of deaths. And a smaller population than Russia and Ukraine combined. Yet Saigon still fell.
You're also dismissing the part about Pokrovsk and the like being slowly encircled, and the increasing inability to prevent large Russian spearheads from penetrating defenses.
Here's the gist: These things happen gradually, then suddenly. It was the case with Afghanistan. Syria (Where militants were holed up in Idlib for years with no progress until last year) .It happened in Nagorno Karabakh (where decades of border skirmishes never amounted to anything until 2020 and 2023) it was the same with South Vietnam.
I'm not surprised you're arguing in bad faith, because you're obviously not mentally ready to seriously engage with anything written here.
Ukraine's Future - A 'Steppe Corridor' - A Neutral, Transit-oriented State
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/08/ukraines-future-a-steppe-corridor-a-neutral-transit-oriented-state.html
>While Russia is confidently prosecuting the war in Ukraine towards its inevitable end.
>Meanwhile the 'West' is still negotiating with itself about the conditions under which it will have to capitulate.
>Discussions continue about 'security guarantees' for Ukraine even as the only serious ones are those that Russia is willing to give.
>The confused arguments about 'guarantees' are reflected in the reports of them. Consider this nonsense:
<A security guarantee could encompass a wide range of issues. In return for Russia ending its invasion, a security pact could include a pledge of U.S. air support for any European-led operations should Russian troops resume their assault.
>If Russia ends the war NATO like 'security guarantees' are to be given to Ukraine as a reward?
>How is that supposed to compute? Russia started this war to prevent a further extension of NATO into Ukraine. Why should it end the fighting if, in consequence, Ukraine would end up as a quasi-member of that pact?
>All the 'security guarantees' talk is just obfuscation of the attempt by some European leaders to prolong the war by further dragging the U.S. into it:
<Days before the [sanctions] deadline expired, Putin invited Witkoff to Moscow and offered a proposal, seen by the White House as sufficient grounds to set up last week’s Alaska summit meeting. There, Putin succeeded in convincing Trump that an immediate ceasefire to allow for complex peace negotiations was not required, allowing Russia to continue its attacks on Ukraine, without the risk of new U.S. sanctions.
<The move alarmed European leaders, who raced to Washington on Monday to back up Zelensky during a meeting at the White House. After the meeting, they appeared satisfied by Trump’s openness to security guarantees. If Putin does not accept the terms, that could make the Kremlin the obstacle to Trump’s peace deal, insulating Ukraine from having to choose between untenable concessions of territory and inviting Trump’s ire.
>Russia is not going to allow any of this:
<[O]n Wednesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov struck a blow at another major part of Trump’s peace effort, downplaying expectations for a swift bilateral meeting with the Ukrainian president, and further blocking the prospects for any deal on security guarantees for Ukraine. He said Russia would only agree to the measures if it had an effective veto over future efforts to defend Kyiv.
>Russia will simply stick to its plan:
<Russia’s conditions to end its war would essentially subvert Ukraine’s sovereignty, neuter its military and seize territory in eastern Ukraine that it has not captured in battle. Moscow wants to also permanently bar Ukraine from NATO and other international groupings and prevent it from hosting foreign troops — terms that would force Ukraine into a close, unwanted economic and political partnership with Russia.
>A close economic and political partnership with Russia, unwanted or not, is indeed the most likely future for whatever is by then left of Ukraine.
>Some Ukrainians, like the former presidential advisor Alexander Arestovich, do understand that:
<The key task for Ukraine today in all these Alaskan tales is to preserve political independence in the long term. …
<Ukraine has only one way to preserve it: acknowledging the shared symbolic capital with Russia and Belarus, adopting a neutral status, and building good-neighborly relations with Russia and Belarus while maintaining political independence and the unique role of a “crossroads of worlds”- between Russia and Europe.
<Economically, the most promising role is that of a “steppe corridor” - between Russia, Central Asia, the South Caucasus, and the EU.In short, this is about a fundamental shift in project orientation - from a narrow, nationalist one to a broad, transit-oriented one.
<In a sense, this could be called a “Great Return” - to Ukraine’s natural historical and cultural role.
<By way of analogy - modern Kazakhstan. …
<In conclusion, the fundamental challenge for Ukraine lies not in tactical maneuvers but in recognizing the strategic perspective: the necessity of reimagining its role as a neutral, transit-oriented state in order to preserve independence in the emerging geopolitical order.>>2441829>Keeps shiftingNo. My original point still stands. Which was about map comparisons where maps previously rejected as Kremlin narratives in 2022 are now being used a "proof" of the extend of AFU successes in the meantime, in 2025.
There's nothing duplicitous about this, as I've not walked back a single thing I've written.
Implying this is some "Firehose of Falsehood" technique is likewise also wrong. I'm posting comments by western journalists and articles from western news outlets. And critiquing them. I dunno what that has to do with the "Firehose of Falsehoods".
>Are you arguing that 100k dead fascist scum were destroyed this yearThis is actually not what the post you're quoting revolved around. It's about how very high fatality figures, very low recruitment, and the Russian military presence in Ukraine growing in numbers doesn't follow. Either there are less fatalities than the 100k every 6 months (which also excludes heavily wounded casualties, which would make irrecoverable losses even higher), there is more recruitment than purported in the article I linked, or Zelensky's statements about the growth of the Russian army in within the occupied territories (i.e. SMO zone) are false.
Do you understand why that is? Do you understand that whatever the length of the contracts being signed is, there cannot be 200k deaths a year, which would mean an even higher number of irrecoverable non-fatal losses, whilst the supposed Russian occupation/invasion force currently in Ukraine keeps growing by hundreds of thousands a year, with recruitment not keeping up with fatalities? And that if one assumes many of these contracts are only for 6 months, these numbers make even less sense?
https://nationalpost.com/news/russias-deployment-of-nearly-700000-troops-signals-long-term-war-plan-ukraine-warns
>It was the official position of the fascist regime that Ukraine would surrender quickly and that her allies wouldn't help her fight back.However it was phrased doesn't matter, because what wasn't said was "Kyiv in 3 days" which was a statement made by Mark Milley about what he thought would happen before the invasion in late February. But was later reposted and attributed as the official position by the Russian government at the time. And yes, this matters. You want to talk about being duplicitous? That's duplicitous. And it's the same now with these comparison maps.
>Just two more weeks right?No. I'm literally talking about sometime before 2030. Could be sooner, could be the end of 2029. But right now there is no trajectory where Ukraine wins on the battlefield. And without a deal this will end in capitulation.
Vietnam btw involved an invasion by the NVA of the South, in support of insurgents. Sound familiar?
>Instead of arguing this point you would actually do better to make a point about the fascist empire's sustainability. Here's the thing: I don't care. The discussion about to what extend either side have degenerated into fascism is an interesting one, but it isn't what my initial posts were about. I'm critiquing western media outlets, journalists and online spaces where people keep posting contradictory narratives.
>And you tell me I'm arguing in bad faith? Fucking retardYes you're arguing in bad faith, or perhaps you're mentally incapable of grasping what I'm at. I literally posted an article, from around then, attributing this statement not to figures like Solovyov, but to Mark Milley.
As to whether this is a net win for either the west or Moscow depends on who you are, and what you think this is all about. On an individual level, some are profiting. But when looking at the Ukrainian state itself, what I see is how it's future is being diminished and how capitulation, even if a few more years down the line, is becoming increasingly inevitable.
Another thing I can't help but notice is how this war is destroying western unity, costing the west hundreds of billions of dollars which could have been spend on infrastructure and investment in key technologies. And more importantly, is immiserating workers across the continent. Which is also leading to extreme reactionaries rising in various polls.
Hinging all bets on "to the last Ukrainian" and a refusal to accept anything but a maximalist position (Ukraine in NATO in all but name, no recognition of Crimea, no Russian as a co-official language of Ukraine, no legal recognition of the current front line or land swapping meaning continuation of the war later on is inevitable) is also putting the future of the EU itself at risk, As coming elections might result in euroskeptics coming to power (on a wave of discontent at decreasing standards of living), who will both abandon Ukraine and dismantle the EU.
Which, if you're a Ukraine supporter, is something you should be concerned about. And if you think yourself a communist, should be concerned about too because many of these "Euroskeptics" are rabid anti-communists.
The refusal to negotiate for years has also been a disaster for the Ukrainian state in general, Negotiations themselves, even if they had led nowhere for years, could have been used to wear down the Russian demands over time.
Not trying to push the battlefield advantage in late 2022 diplomatically (and thus from position of strength) was objectively bad statesmanship. Leading to the current situation where Russian demands are almost fully intact, but the Ukrainian position has been much diminished as a result of battlefield failures since 2023 and a hostile US administration.
Basically "leftist" cheering this on (War going on forever because "orcs are dying")are idiots because instead of a glorious victory of the democratic free west over the authoritarian asiatic fascist Russians, this may instead result in the EU being destroyed and a bunch of anti-communist anti-union anti-liberal reactionaries taking over in various EU countries.
>>2441392>I remember how adamant leftypol was that this wasn't happening>>2441465>I can't really fault leftypol for gullibility when all the "evidence" was nato say so, "reports" from the front that were never substantiated, and then nonsense like The "tell" that something was probably up was that mutual defense treaty that Russia and North Korea signed which created a legal architecture for North Korean troops to join in the defense of Kursk after the Ukrainian incursion happened. Then the Ukrainians began saying they were encountering North Koreans, but nobody really knew for sure, but then drone footage came out on the Ukrainian side that showed North Korean troops in the field.
But there were other pics who were just Asian guys who were either Russian or from somewhere else but weren't the North Koreans, and NAFO accounts were circulating that stuff, which was not true. There were also anecdotal reports from Z-bloggers who were talking about it. I also can't recall the NAFO side stressing that if North Korean troops were involved (as they were), that it was specifically in Kursk.
>>2441592>Of course, critical thinking demands this makes no sense, and one side must be lying here.It stands to reason. One of the most propagandized aspects war are casualty counts. It's usually the case that each side exaggerates the losses on the other side and downplays losses on their own side to boost morale. One side might do it more shamelessly than the other, but they always do it. I would encourage people to trust their own instincts and judgement. Another thing people do is not necessarily lie, they sink their own individuality into one side and certain things become unthinkable to them.
This is a more general problem.
I regularly see people on the Ukrainian side like Igor Sushko say that negotiations with Russia should never happen until Russian forces are defeated. But it doesn't seem likely to me that it's going to happen. The idea that Ukraine can regain Donbass because every square inch of Ukrainian territory is sacred soil does not fit the facts, but that's unthinkable, so Ukraine is being "betrayed." They don't have enough weapons. Even though their problem is more manpower. Just the fact that there are limits on what can be done on the battlefield, or that Ukraine will not retake Donbass even if it holds on, cannot compute for these people. Or the fact that a ceasefire two years ago would've been better for Ukraine than a ceasefire now. Or the fact that most people in Crimea and the DPR/LPR would rather be part of Russia and see themselves as Russian. Or the fact that Russia has demonstrated a capacity to regenerate its losses more effectively than Ukraine.
Here's another thing: Zelensky's moves to curtain Ukrainian democracy and anti-corruption efforts are in fact very bad and received massive popular pushback. Okay, it's rough to perform democracy in the middle of the war, but try to find the pro-Ukraine side admit to that.
But then you go to people on the Russian side, and before the invasion happened, there were many of them who said that a looming Russian invasion was Western propaganda, and then they immediately flipped to supporting the invasion. It's also very difficult for them to admit that Russia underestimated Ukraine. The most egregious examples are people like Douglas McGregor and Scott Ritter, who have claimed over and over that Ukraine forces are on the verge of defeat since the war began, even during Ukrainian counter-attacks that drove Russian forces out of parts of Ukraine, which have not since been retaken. Maybe a broken clock will be right eventually. There's also the aforementioned North Korea thing.
Then you have realists like Mearsheimer, who also predicted that Russia would not invade Ukraine because that would be stupid and a big disaster for Russia, and that states behave rationally (or something), and then later argued the U.S. should not arm Ukraine because that would only lead to an escalation in fighting. That has been borne out over the war, but it's also extremely unlikely that Russia would agree to ceasefire with Ukraine unless Putin feels like it's no longer worth the squeeze. If Ukraine collapses, that does not encourage Russia to seek a ceasefire. That would encourage Russia to seek victory.
Also, BTW, the realists like to say the West wants to "fight Russia to the last Ukrainian," but it's actually an EXTREMELY realist position to use the war as an opportunity to bleed Russia until we run out of Ukrainians. Problem = opportunity. It's strategic. It has a rich and bloody history in power politics. But very few people will admit to this view because it's quite appalling.
Mearsheimer (and it appears Trump) also want Ukraine to have some pleasant, Finland-style neutrality. But that's also probably unlikely for several reasons, because Ukraine is not Finland. But if Ukraine manages to get out of this war with its government intact and with the freedom to rebuild its army and conclude security agreements as it sees fit with NATO, that's also a win. It's a defeat for Russia no matter how much territory they abscond with.
>>2441301If I can’t have communism I at least want to see NATO get their shit rocked by a peer level adversary they can’t roll over in weeks.
The Prussians for all their “mission tactics” wank that NATO copied at least understood the need for massive war time expansion based in conscription. If modern NATO took a few 100k casualties and needed to churn out infantry in three month courses, would have no doctrine they could use.
>>2441658I just thought the question of what Russia has to concede was completely out of touch with reality. There's an implication in the "aggressor" part that the US has the responsibility to punish aggressors and the response should have been something along the lines of no longer having that capability. Rules based order is over thats not how it works and losers dont get to dictate terms. Both sides dont have to give up something Russia gets what they want and the losers have to live with it.
And I dont know why thats a problem for neocons to admit. Its like their favorite thing was lying about how they need a bigger military budget, but now that they actually do they wont say it.
>>2442015no wonder you don't find any weird that the US is brokering a cease fire between Ukraine and Russia. you don't see the US as the main actor behind Ukraine, controlling the political parties, the political members, their financial institutions, the weapon supplies, the subsidizes, the everything.
to you, the US is just a distant player, observing and that's that.
>>2442046US is not the main actor. US did what they wanted - caused a war that separated European markets and Russian oil and gas (direct connections, I mean) - and after that US doesn't care as long as connection isn't restored. Right now, it's Europe's investments into war sinking cost fallacy and Ukraine's delusions against Trump's "lmao, you idiots can't even produce weapons by yourself, how are you going to continue fighting Russia?"
What is being forgotten always and forever in these kinds of conflicts is that USA is sovereign and can choose whatever it wants to do, while EU and Ukraine are puppets locked into idiotic decisions. Russia, despite it's talks about sovereignty, is also apparently idiotic, while China keeps to it's sovereignty and doesn't join stupid wars. So, USA sees profit in starting a war - they do it, then USA sees profit in using Russia to bludgeon NATO into full-blown slavery to US - and USA does this, and sees that Russia's strength is actually helping US to force EU into this position. This is what "realpolitik" actually looks like
>>2442068>>2442046Oh, and also, USA and USSR during the Cold War cooperated more than were in opposition to each other. Their political establishments (except for Stalin's time) were benefitting from each other, USA used the boogeyman to force Europe into NATO and subservient, and USSR used USA with a similar effect in the Third World
Note how China is absent in both Cold War and current equation, lol
>>2442023>>2442032It's a better "rent-an-army" analogy but 60,000 Americans died in Vietnam. Nobody is going to make sad buttrock songs about losing Ukraine and getting their shit pushed in. A better analogy would be to Soviet aid to North Vietnam. Ukraine just costs us money. It's why people respond to "why are we spending money on Ukraine" though Trump's base won't bitch about it if these ceasefire talks break down and he sends more weapons. Ukraine much more concerns elites, D.C. people, but not most people.
>>2442046I don't find it weird.
>>2442093>60,000 Americans died in Vietnam. Nobody is going to make sad buttrock songs about losing Ukraine and getting their shit pushed inbut thats not what you said, you said
>>2442015>The U.S. isn't fighting in Ukraine.which is false, as we know
>>2442046>controlling the political parties, the political members, their financial institutions, the weapon supplies, the subsidizes, the everything.and
>>2442032>The entire command structure of the Ukraine military is run by the Pentagon and CIA. ❗️The much-hyped "plant for the production of the latest Ukrainian missiles" turned out to be not a high-tech complex, but an ordinary warehouse in Kiev, which until recently was leased for commercial purposes.
Kiev tried to sell this facility in the media as part of a program to create its own missile-industrial potential. In reality, it looks more like an imitation - a showcase for Western partners who need to show Ukraine's "independence" in the military sphere.
Well, for the population, the overdrive with the missile program against the background of the recent setback of the "Sapsan" program was not superfluous.
In general, everything is going in strict accordance with the cargo cult of victorious "gamechangers", as we wrote (
https://t.me/special_authors/8090) earlier.
@MChronicles
Kek, turns out the plant they showed quite recently was just rented, why are Ukrops so shit at manufacturing? Probably privatizations i would say,
>>2442128 me
>>2442127what you would expect.
>>2442068>US is not the main actor.how do you call it when victoria nuland comes in and says that half of poroshenko's cabinet is hand-picked by her? how do you call it when CIA/Pentagon chvds are integral part of the ukrainian military training? how do you call it when you get 160 billion dollars over the course of three years?
oh, you really think ukraine is fighting alone this?
>>2442093and it's weird that you don't find it weird. you are weird person. you are weird.
>>2441357The world was freed of another liberal poet.
In some kind of contrast, the mother of Prigo was interviewed about his son. Talks about his life, his prison time, his reformation, he dropping out of college cause the 90s, the hotdog stand, the casinos, the catering, etc…
https://www.fontanka.ru/2025/08/22/75852263/ >>2442093Ukraine is far more consequential than Vietnam because it represents the US international system being challenged and beaten back following logical progression in imperialism in Europe. Its postwar recovery, early integration and transatlantic ties, then absorption of the exploited postcommunist east so as to form a supranational project appended to American world hegemony
If 2008 was a neoliberal bandaid fix beginning to go bust, 2013/14 and abject regression in Ukraine was the post-45 order going bust. Thus modern liberals beying for blood and demanding derussification of Ukraine to protect global democracy from nationalism, before getting their proxies shot to pieces thanks to this incoherent view of capitalist crises
Vietnam was also ended comparatively easily. The US withdrew due to instability, failed its puppet, and capitulated to Vietnamese demands by 75. Ukraine will not end easy. It is a gigantic gaping maw or black hole in the international system. It is Europe failing to come together and being left with a partially formed mess. If the West concedes to Russian terms it's an epochal shift that is an existential threat, the end of the liberal world order. I think that's a good thing
>>2442524If Vietnam was the only communist insurgency and North Vietnam was the only ML state on the planet, then Vietnam would have been way more existential.
But at this point there were numerous far larger and more populous ML/socialist states in existence, so the loss of Vietnam was a setback, not a complete rejection of the then post-1945 order.
Ukraine losing or capitulating and ceasing to exist is existential, because it means the end of both the post-45 and post-91 orders. Because to liberals this means not only the definitive rejection of western unilateralism and hegemony after 1991, but also as the "rules based order" where borders are not allowed to be changed except as imposed by western or western backed powers.
Afghanistan too was more of a Vietnam kind of setback. Ukraine though is the proverbial end times to western liberals.
And to no surprise, this is triggering way more derangement than Vietnam or Afghanistan ever did.
>>2442538Rather dramatic opinion considering this is a conflict with NATO trying to get one of the sphere of influence states from Russian Federation. If Ukraine falls NATO loses nothing
and gains nothing and if Russia wins it has avoided losing one of its core territories it considers to belongs to her. No matter who wins or loses millions of people have died between to capitalist blocs fighting over sphere of influence. All of this has very little if anything to do with socialism. Its just the most recent war to support or be against while living nowhere near the conflict area.
>>2442564That's missing the wider impact on the "rules based international order" itself however.
It's like how ISIS upending Sykes Picot was an existential threat, but some Islamist movement taking over in Afghanistan or elsewhere isn't. As far as liberals are concerned, allowing borders to be changed through force opens a can of worms. The occasional setback is acceptable, violating sacred post-45 tenets however isn't.
I believe if Putin offered a deal where Ukraine cannot join NATO, nor join the EU, must be demilitarized and remain neutral, but all territories are "returned" including Crimea, this would be far more acceptable to them.
Existential threats to an established international order or worldview shouldn't be underestimated.
European aristocrats duking it out over colonies and small territories was largely acceptable, but the French Revolution and Napoleon's attempted conquest of Europe and annihilation of Europe's ancient royal houses wasn't.
Minor clashes like those over Crimea and Alsace-Lorraine were acceptable, but the German Empire attempting to upend the entire post-Congress of Europe international balance of power however, was an existential threat.
The Bolshevik revolution, Europe's (attempted) communist revolutions in general, and Russian civil war were also existential and also saw extreme interventions.
That's not to say wars like Vietnam are or should be more significant to socialists/communists than Ukraine, but this is more about the conflict is perceived on the other side (liberals in this case). Who see a victory of Russia in Ukraine as the end of an epoch and their "rules based international order".
>>2442588(Semi-)nomadic mode of production is pretty much pillaging + cattle herding.
No…
>>2442552Not the point. Wasn't even about whether Ukraine is losing or is going to lose, but about how this potential loss is perceived by western liberals.
But I'm used to these boring replies by now. Must suck being a nationalist fanatic and having your brain immediately fried by thought terminating cliches and trigger words.
>>2442720Well that is ironic you'd say that Glownonymous because Spurdo's favourite go-to get out of a debate he isn't winning, is to complain he isn't being understood because his opponent is an ESL.
So we can establish that he must be from an English speaking country, he is also online at the same hours I am, there is a Spurdo flag that also posts in "lefty"britpol with similar abrasiveness and naturally being a member of this failing nation of ours makes most who inhabit it extremely contemptuous of nations that are rising.
Someone renew thread, I already got a good post ready to go
>>2442743I wonder if you mean me/my specific post. In any case I just thought we (as in us two) were in full agreement.
To me the Huns were strange horse people to the east.
>>2442765I can't remember now, can I?
That the bri'ish are in some respects even more primitive than amrikans?
>>2442771That if Spurdo was British, then it was primitive to assume everyone would know "The Hun" refers to Ze Germans.
Alas, we'll never know if he is British, it's just a suspicion of mine.
>>2442524>There is nothing more useless mass killing than this.The same useless opinion as expound by Michael Harrington when he disowned Vietnam and the conflict it represented as a war between two sides the workers had no stake in
And of course the third campist became a first campist over time
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