Right now the Trump administration is signaling its intentions to begin criminalizing the left, opening investigations, and moving to eliminate even the most non-threatening anarchist book clubs. They're speaking openly about designating "antifa" as a terrorist organization. Will anyone be surprised if within a couple years the PSL, the DSA, and your local larp group are also designated as criminal organizations? Will anyone in Europe or anywhere controlled by American influence be surprised if right wing governments there adopt the same methods they do in the US?
How can serious left wing organizers under these conditions continue to engage in building above ground parties engaged in feckless reformism under these conditions? Yes, officer, here is our formal centralized list of dues paying members and their legal names and credit card numbers. We have a right to free speech, officer. We're a legally registered nonprofit organization, officer. You'll be hearing from my lawyer, officer. Does this seem like a strategy prepared for the future to you?
People need to shift their organizing underground in advance and we should have done it yesterday. We need to build hardened cell networks and we need to take encryption and countersurveillance seriously. These cell networks need to be seriously prepared for prolonged asymmetric conflict against the most sophisticated surveillance state on Earth. If a crackdown happens, even if you aren't violent, it would be infinitely preferable to be in a hardened underground group that survives instead of sitting out in the open larping that this time we can make social democracy work or that our book club will amount to anything.
Right now, Trump is just a senile figurehead for a cabal of guys like Stephen Miller who are gearing up for Palantir fascism and race war. Anyone who could stand in their way has proven themselves to be too cucked to attempt anything. The worse the economy gets, the more they're going to start lashing out at the low hanging fruit.
>inb4 burger/europoor proles are incapable of revolution so why bother
If you do nothing there's a good chance that they're going to kill you personally, retard. The burgerreich endseig will not be fun to live through. If you don't plan on moving to China somehow you should take this seriously.
Who cares? Americans get what they deserve
>>2521530If you live anywhere on Earth, what happens to America will impact you personally.
>>2521532Not in a multipolar world idiot, this shit won’t affect BRI countries, actual societies that produce actual economic value, not gambling parastism
>>2521534Do you really think BRICS or whatever will be unaffected if the US goes on a global schizo meltdown and starts ripping apart global trade networks and invading countries on a whim?
>>2521536You say that like the US hasn’t been doing that since they finished off their own natives
>>2521532yes, and the impact we want to see is the destruction of America.
That will be great news for people around the world.
>>2521538If you're so unaffected by what goes on in the world what the fuck are you doing in here?
>>2521540Do you want that to be fast or slow?
>>2521541I’m sick of Americans treating their politics as alarming or anything novel, it’s not, Trump is exactly the same as any republican president, American imperialism has been the same from 1776 onward
>>2521542As fast as possible.
>>2521547Do you think it will happen faster or slower if domestic opposition to American policies is completely ineffectual, or if imperialist resources get tied up dealing with domestic conflict?
>>2521544You're retarded m8
>>2521559There’s literally nothing uniquely threatening about the Trump admin, it’s exactly as monstrous as every other American government, if W Bush didn’t kill you, Trump won’t
>>2521544Nah this shit is actually fucking nuts right now. The main crazy shit is ICE black bagging thousands and thousands of random brown people on camera, and shoving them in concentration camps right before our eyes, with near explicit plans to literally deport, enslave, or if that doesn't work kill them all.
And with all of this, absolutely political opposition strong enough to slow it down.
It's fucking wild no matter where you are
>>2521558Moot point. Domestic opposition is inexistent. From 1776 to today, the only domestic opposition was by the pro-slavers of the Confederacy (ironically, the only real revolt in US history was a reactionary one, and had to be opposed). I do not waste time waiting or hoping for 'domestic opposition'.
On the question of imperialism, America is one unitary bloc.
Thus, a total collapse of America is the only desirable outcome for a communist.
Quick reminder for the "Hitler first, then us" people, communists that were able to enjoy the GDR fled before it was too late.
>>2521564They're trying to make a civil war happen in real time, including using threats of political imprisonment for the governor of Illinois, to the point where he had to say "arrest me bitch you won't" like last week. It's fucking NUTS
>>2521566>Thousands of immigrants are being enslaved in the open<Moot pointactually kill yourself
>>2521564trifle. American military and American-backed compradors have been doing much worse around the world. ICE or no ICE, Trump or Hillary, Zohran or Cuomo - the only desirable outcome is the collapse of America. How it happens, who suffers the most in it etc is irrelevant.
Komm Süßer Todd >>2521562If your politics consists of a list of justifications for universal apathy and passivity, should anyone take your opinion seriously?
>>2521571and where is the domestic opposition?
>>2521567which communist fled and which one died in the camp is irrelevant. In the end, it truly was 'After Hitler, us'. The GDR was established. And it was worth it.
>>2521574Are you like… A psychopath? Because I'm having trouble trying to understand how you could make sense any other way.
>>2521564obama literally did the same thing, liberal media even called him “deporter in chief”
>>2521573Americans are literally so desperate to claim any kind of oppression it drives them mental, YOU ARE IN THE CLUB
We get another of these “quick guys we need to DO something…. Uh form a commune/cell!!” Thread every week it feels like.
Is it so hard to come up with good bait nowadays?
>>2521578you are accusing me of ignoring the plight of ICE victims. I am simply asking you where is the domestic opposition and what are they doing?
>>2521574Pretending to be a third worldist stakhnovite on anonymous forums, clearly.
>>2521518Anon, if you mean USAasians just say that instead of 'western leftists'.
How do you know they aren't? That's the whole point of an underground cult is nobody is supposed to know about it except for people in the cult.
>>2521587I don't think that's a workable model for organizing. People should know that the organization exists and is actually doing stuff, but not who its members are, to encourage them to form similar groups in their own communities.
>>2521590
There’s no such thing as politics in the US, “organic” or not
>>2521585It also applies to Europeans, the Anglosphere, etc.
>>2521592You cannot organize Americans, it’s like herding cats
When are you going to get that socialism became an oriental ideology after WWI? It will never be adopted in the west, no westerner has any idea of collective interest and responsibility and those that do are racist. History is over, we live in a post dialectical era.
>>2521597People clearly have organized Americans but in a completely useless form. There are dozens of decently sized socialist, communist, or anarchist American organizations but they are allergic to effective organizational forms and actually doing threatening activity.
>>2521592>I don't think that's a workable model for organizing. People should know that the organization exists and is actually doing stuff, but not who its members areYou can't organize a revolution or insurgency or any other kind of criminal operation by posting fliers all over town telling people to come to your terrorist organization meeting.
>>2521603You can't overthrow the government without public facing communication channels. This creates a dilemma: go underground and do nothing to stay hidden or organize in the open and do nothing to stay safe. I think the solution to this is that you have to encourage others to organize their own underground groups independently, but under a common playbook and ideological platform. Those small independent groups can communicate and collaborate without ever meeting each other. There are lots of ways to do this, like the top down cell network model or the affinity group or some hybrid.
>>2521602If it was effective it wouldn’t be American
>>2521574In the streets, learning shit from first principles.
>>2521609will they be done learning in 2 or 3 decades?
>>2521609If the streets meant anything 2020 would have been the revolution, it wasn’t so it’s not, stop being activist brained, you are not the protagonist of history, no American or Euro is
>>2521603Like do you think the FLN had no public communications platforms during the independence struggle? These are tactics that have been forgotten because of a tendency towards legal organizing and material comfort in the West. As the situation there gets worse, people organizing in the West will have to learn them again through painful trial and error.
>>25216112020 is what happens when you have a disconnect between mass public fervor and structured organizations that can spring into action that can capitalize on the chaos. All the structured American organization had to exist legally and nonviolently, because they didn't bother trying the alternative, and so of fucking course the DSA and the PSL did not storm buildings with guns and take over regions.
>>2521613Oh my fucking god,
AMERICANS ARE NOT ALGERIANS, THEY’RE THE PIED NOIRS stop expecting your enemies to overthrow themselves, they’re a lost cause and they’re less and less important every day
>>2521617They didn’t bother with the alternative because Weather Underground and Black Panthers tried that and died for nothing
>>2521618Are black people in America pied noirs? Immigrants? Poor workers?
>>2521621Compared to any Palestinian or Congolese, absolutely
>>2521607To build an effective underground organization requires building face-to-face relationships based on mutual trust from the bottom up. You can't rely on a PR department for this, you have to do it one by one in person by meeting and befriending likeminded people who are smart and reliable and will keep their mouth shut. You don't join ISIS by going to a recruiting center and telling them you want to join ISIS. If you have to ask "How do I join ISIS" then you're never going to be in ISIS.
>>2521621stop bringing up black americans, latinos etc
All Americans are Americans. End of story.
>>2521627This, the Civil Rights Movement ended with the full integration of minorities with imperialism
>>2521619The black panthers and the WU proved that at that time a particular kind of centralized, violent organizational model was not effective against the US government. We have different options for organizational forms today. Clearly, there needs to be a lot of independent groups acting around a shared platform and commnication protocol who can't compromise each other if one group is infiltrated, but who still can collaborate in a functional way.
>>25216112020 had a functioning Democratic Party, antiscelerite police, loyalty bureaus, and the illusion of managed democracy.
The school shooters in charge of shit spent the last seventy years convincing themselves that the domestic counterinsurgency apparatus is some kind of charity for disabled teens and now the khakimen are doing to police what specials did to soldiers in Iraq prior to the attribution agreements.
We have multiple war tourist celebrities lecturing on guerilla warfare and my dumb ass knows about late GWOT-era attribution agreements.
>>2521631BP and WU were vibes-based aura farmers. There was absolutely 0% chance they would succeed in anything.
>>2521622The exact same problems I outlined for radical political organizing in the United States also apply to the West Bank. Are West Bank Palestinians so utterly collaborationist and ineffective because they're morally stained by privilege, or has Israel learned to apply similar methods to COINTELPRO in their highly surveilled colonial holdings?
As someone who remembers the sudden drop in air pressure when the NFAC marched, it has not even fucking begun.
>>2521638>political organizing in the United States also apply to the West Bankfucking moron
>>2521640wtf is NFAC? black separatists?
>>2521626ISIS still had a PR department, no? Do you think they made all those social media videos for no reason and recruited so many jihadists from Europe for no reason? There are ways you can manage this. You can have top down cell networks created by chains of people who personally know each other. You can have affinity groups that encourage specific action from the wider public without ever having a sign up meeting. You can have a hybrid of the two where you encourage people to build their own localized affinity cell networks with people they personal know and can vet while you have a central organization with a central personally vetted cell network giving orders. If we believe the thesis that conditions in the West are bound to get a lot worse, it is better that Western leftists choose any one of these organizing methods instead of giving the DSA their credit card number.
>>2521641Have you considered that two things can be alike in some aspects and different in others? The West Bank has a serious problem with groups like the PLO becoming co-opted and defanged. They did the same to the left in many Western countries.
>>2521642They're the post-Black Liberation Army types that went on parade march in their uniforms for three days in 2020.
I do not know how they found so many people capable of marching.
>>2521626i remember when isis had a board on 8chan with instructions how to join
You people are hopeless.
>>2521658You are not the protagonist of history and no english speaker is, cope
>>2521648I don't recall ever seeing a toll-free number at the end of any of those ISIS videos.
>>2521659No one is "the protagonist of history" but for anything to happen at all lots of people need to do things oriented around historical ends. Do you think history would be the same if most of the minor functionaries of every significant political organization decided they would rather smoke weed and masturbate because nothing ever happens instead of devoting themselves to being a small part of necessary organizational work?
>>2521663If you dug around on the right parts of twitter you could find actual ISIS recruiters back in the day.
>>2521659Large chunks of the world's population are ESL.
>>2521669Are you retarded?
Op is right
>>2521674You have a very adorable and naive and white understanding of how clandestine organizations work.
>>2521665> but for anything to happen at all lots of people need to do things oriented around historical ends.None of those people are or will be Americans
>>2521669It literally was, and parties are the best way to organize parties as well.
>>2521680Please. Enlighten me about the ideal model of a successful terrorist organization under modern conditions. Do you have experience working for a terrorist organization that gives you unique insight? I would love to hear about your terrorist group and what it has accomplished.
>>2521702For starters it wouldn’t include westerners
>>2521670And they are not the people who will get or deserve socialism
>>2521618>doesn't understand proletarianization>>2521711>deserveFake thirdworldists are the new fake anarchists.
>>2521726Proletarianization does not matter because the west’s proletariat consistently sides with its own bourgeois against every other person in the world, the primary contradiction is national, not class
>>2521754So you're a socialist of the national variety? What should I call you? A social nationalist? A national socialist? Are you even a socialist?
>>2521530>>2521534So much for the spirit of internationalism. This is your brain on campism
You need points of gathering, aka "Third Places" to organize secret resistance groups, a third place other than home or work where likeminded people can meet and converse and figure out who is cool or not. But America has systemically destroyed all points of gathering for the working class, the marginalized, and the counterculture. Unions, Black churches, local coffee houses and leftist bookstores, colleges and student unions, low-cost housing districts and tenement halls and community centers, co-ops and communes and squats, etc.
All of these things have been systematically destroyed, by government crackdown and police brutality and class warfare and monopolization and gentrification and the war on education. Everyone on the left is alone and isolated now, there's no place in your town where you can go and meet likeminded people that are your allies, everyone is disconnected from everyone in what feels like a world of hostile strangers and it's not an accident that things turned out this way.
This is why social media has become the biggest industry in the world and dominates everyone's lives, because it's all people have left now. But now all social media does is make us even more isolated, make us feel even more like outside our door is just a sea of MAGA scum as far as the eye can see and there's not even any likeminded people left on the face of the Earth.
>>2521783
A modest suggestion in the digital age: Tor. Or similar darknets or encrypted communications platforms. The infrastructure is all there for enabling other forms of organization facing state repression. Why wouldn't it be worth trying? You could have networks of isolated deeply personally vetted groups gathering on Tor to develop shared ideology and tactics that could make political organizing in the modern day actually viable again, but without ever sharing compromising information with each other. Instead of stochastic action, or a direct traditional cell hierarchy, you have a hybrid. Everyone forms an independent "franchise" with people they personally know and trust. Each franchise works to collaborate over Tor to refine methods, tactics, and to create an easily replicable "template" so that unaffiliated newcomers can found their own franchise. In the absence of personal vetting, you could employ vetting based on knowledge and the quality of one's contributions to screen out low quality attempts and wrecking and infiltration. For any actual actions the sensitive operational or personally revealing details by each small group in the "federation" of independent cells are omitted.
>>2521789Yes, and the moral insurrection, which is occurring on both sides of the "moral divide", is eating up a diseased, decaying society that is willfully destroying itself specifically to spite us.
Good fucking riddance.
>>2521796TOR was literally invented and is run by the police, there’s no form of communication that they aren’t tapped into
Also, if you think that you if go out and start an effective organized leftist movement and by some miracle you do manage to build a solid organization and make some real strides and affect some real positive change in the world, if you think you are going to get any kind of rewards or recognition for that, you're just a liberal moron. At best it will be an utterly thankless job, at worst you will just invite people to kill you or throw you in jail.
>>2521803You gotta give yourself thanks, looking for outside validation is childish
>>2521801This is a bit unrealistic, no? The American surveillance state is incredibly powerful but it is not omnipotent. The mathematics of encryption are universal and work regardless of medium provided you approach things properly. There are areas where feds struggle and exhaustively mapping out the contours of the surveillance state and the gaps in their awareness should be the first priority of any serious left wing project.
>>2521803The hope, I assume, is that even if you fail you create a model that is more successful then other failures, and someone successful learns something from it.
>>2521813You’re never beating the feds at playing wack a mole with surveillance technology, they will always have more resources than you and will nuke their own territory should they feel genuinely existentially threatened. History ended with the US acquiring the atomic biomb.
>>2521822As we all know, the Soviets acquiring the atomic bomb also ensured the USSR would last forever, and the fearsome KGB stopped anything bad from ever happening to the Soviet project. Nations with atom bombs and intelligence agencies are literally immortal. Thank god that Klaus Fuchs and Beria secured the worker's republic forever.
>>2521829You’re not going to get a progressive military coup in the US, the system filters people out who have either those types of thoughts or charisma
>>2521831It happened in fascist Portugal after things got bad enough.
>>2521833If it were possible it would have happened after Vietnam, it didn’t so it won’t
>>2521834If Italian unification was possible, it would have happened in the middle ages, like France and England. It didn't so it won't.
>>2521839If Garibaldi were alive now he would be a filmmaker, not a general
I like how this thread exploded for no reason.
>>2521844It’s literally just me and one guy
>>2521853Exit nodes can't see the content of HTTPS traffic or the user IP. 0-days are typically saved for high value targets instead of being used for literally everything, which would compromise them.
>>2521518so what should I do?
>>2521866It depends. Do you have irl friends who agree with you politically who are trustworthy people who could be politically useful? If yes, all of you should buy guns, extensively research encryption and counter-surveillance, read theory, and hold regular formal meetings. At regular intervals the group should discuss ways they specifically could be useful in opposing fascism and doing labor or tenant organizing work in their local communities or in the world at large in the immediate term, like in the next week or month. It could involve pretty simple propaganda work or peaceful organizing or it could involve dangerous schemes. It could involve simply planning and research. Then they should commit themselves to doing it, and they should report on their progress. At every stage, people should be constantly kept busy and accountable to each other. Every meeting should include a careful review of one's progress so far. Even if it's a small group, discipline and professional behavior should be taken seriously.
>>2521866Obviously this advice is probably vague, but really you should focus on creating a strong, highly secure small group that is prepared for anything and which can function as a unit. It is very important that the group is constantly busy with formal mechanisms to keep people active. Once you become confident in your own small group, your group can start recruiting other groups. I cannot emphasize enough that everyone should stay busy as much as possible and it should be treated with the seriousness of a job. "The organizational weapon", a study of Bolshevik organizing tactics, goes into the need for constant structured activity for maintaining readiness. Obviously a whole political party is different from a small cell of vetted individuals but the benefits of professional organization are the same. You need to find people who are serious, who you deeply trust, and who you know would not rat you out for nothing.
>>2521866The actual focus of your activity will depend on what your personal circumstances are and what people are good at and comfortable doing. But something that would be highly beneficial would be to create a network of many small, highly disciplined groups like this capable of a wide variety of political activity. These groups could collaborate in larger campaigns defined by shared sets of methods and goals, without ever revealing compromising detail between each group. Wouldn't it be useful, for example, to have a small group in every major city that has a detailed map of all the license plate cameras, police stations, and power lines?
>>2521879The network of independent, highly organized small groups will need a secure protocol for anonymous communication with each other, without revealing their identities to each other and to feds. This is where extremely paranoid research into secure darknet communications methods come in. Failing to deanonymize each group, feds will likely pretend to be their own independent groups on this protocol to cause disruption. This should be the operating assumption and no one should ever reveal anything identifying in this high-level collaboration space, which is more about broad strokes shared ideologies and methods. As the situation evolves this network should transform slowly into a more cohesive and centralized organization as it becomes necessary and possible.
>>2521627>>2521628The U$ is a Prison house of Nations, which treats the Black/New Afrikan, Hispanic/Chicano/Mestizo, and First Nations/Native American population like they are not U$ citizens (Trump ending birthright citizenship will probably transform this from a De facto to a De jure reality by officially stripping citizenship from most of these populations), with them essentially acting as a permanent domestic underclass with essentially no rights that are exploited for cheap labor and disproportionately suffer from Mass incarceration and police brutality, with their neighborhoods essentially under De facto occupation by militarized police (The nationwide ICE raids in Hispanic/Chicano/Mestizo communities, and deployment of the National Guard to both Hispanic/Chicano/Mestizo and Black/New Afrikan neighborhoods in LA, Chicago, DC, etc. have made this Material reality even more obvious), as New Afrika, Aztlan, and the First Nations are Internal Colonies/Oppressed Nations inside of the U$, and their National Liberation should be the number one goal of U$ Communists (U$ Communists must give up on the Quixotic Bourgeois Electoralist Tailist Chauvinist effort to desperately appeal to the Ultra-Reactionary White Settler Labor Aristocracy) as stipulated by the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist principle of Self-Determination of all Oppressed Nations in their own SSR as articulated in Stalin’s “Marxism and the National Question”
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm and Lenin’s “The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self-Determination”
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/jan/x01.htm , along with the National Delimitation Policy of the USSR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_delimitation_in_the_Soviet_Union , which will happen once the inevitable World War III between the U$ and China escalates into a Global Nuclear War that will destroy the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW (in both the Periphery/Semi-Periphery where Maoist PPW is already viable in the Material Conditions, as proven by the ongoing Maoist PPWs in India, the Philippines, Turkey, and Peru, and in the Imperial Core, where Maoist PPW wont be viable in the Material Conditions until World War III breaks out and/or Liberal Bourgeois Democracy is permanently suspended, with these two events being related and probably happening around the same time) to create a Global USSR (all of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR are pictured in the map I posted, with the former U$ Balkanized into a New African SSR that includes the Black/New Afrikan majority counties of the Black Belt, a Hispano-American SFSR that includes the Hispanic/Chicano/Mestizo majority counties in the U$ Southwest, along with the rest of the Spanish-speaking Multiracial regions of the Americas, while the White Settler majority regions in the rest of the former U$ becomes part of the Anglo-American SFSR, which also includes the English-speaking provinces of Canada, as Quebec will become its own SSR, with all the Native American reservations becoming ASSRs) to Place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>2521866talk with your friends in a room without cell phones or modern LCD TVs. The panopticon can't get you if you do even minor things like turning off 2g and being mildly tech literate
It's important to note that the right in America still have their points of gathering, their third places. Far-right conservatives still have many places to congregate and formulate their diabolical plans, they have their own political party with thinktanks and advocacy groups and superpacs, the police and military, legally-sanctioned militias, white churches, conservative ivy league schools, private christian schools, veteran guildhalls, gun clubs and gun ranges and sporting goods stores, county fairs and rodeos and other rural points of gathering, rural diners and bars and farm supply stores and of course the entire social media ecosystem which is dominated by an ultrawealthy elite who have great financial incentive to promote right-wing conservative ideology on their platforms and algorithmically catering content to favor and accomodate the right.
The entire system is rigged to make it very easy for right-wing Americans to organize and form groups and engage in populist activism, but utterly impossible for the left to do the same thing. The possible points of gathering have been wiped out and those who attempt to organize are criminalized and lambasted in the media as agitators or terrorists or communists or whatever it might be and the police and the feds bring the hammer down on them and all they end up doing is creating another new useful propaganda tool for the opposition, now Trump and republicans have some convenient new bogeyman they can scapegoat as the culprit for anything bad that happens in America.
>>2521530i get hating america the government but Just World Hypothesis is stupid
>>2521764campism is an allegation that is used to complain about anti-imperialism more often than not. Opposed to America couping, sanctioning, embargoing, loan sharking, etc.? Umm it's just inter imperialist war sweaty. It's a thought terminating cliche. Even between bourgeois regimes differences shouldn't be flattened and ignored with the theoretical justification that it's all the same maaaaaaaaaan
>>2521518>America is so hecking scary right now goiyz, orange man is gonna literally criminalize the thriving leftist scene in USA!! Why are you not concerned about this!!!?!?!It's literally always been this way. The fact that communist orgs in the states are not already clandestine should concern you
Didn't read past the first sentence.
If /pol/ still survives today then so will we, we do not live in fascism, we do not live in WW2 France or Yugoslavia, don't go out and do adventurism or one man terror attacks prone to backfiring and you won't be arrested, simple.
I'm sure you will reply with
>No! Yes we do and with Trump more so, they left /pol/ up because they're in on it!
Or some shit to cope but at the moment I'm not really worried the FBI will show up at my doorstep and go "Your IP pinged on leftypol dot org care to explain?"
>>2522179>>2522183>everything is fine actually libtard nothing ever happens and caring makes you the biggest libtard of allGetting really tired of this genre of post
>>2522188Then stop making the same post for months on end on here and the America thread if you don't want to here the same logical conclusion multiple people are coming to.
I like to believe that what you're describing probably already exists at least to a certain extent and that that the people in them are smart enough not to announce their existence on places like leftypol.
>>2522195Leftypol is where praxis goes to die
>>2522188Who said everything is fine? Or that we shouldn't care? America has been by far the biggest source of reaction/anticommunism in history for decades. If you're just now getting concerned because of Trump you are a fucking retard
>>2522212Okay so why all this poopooing of anyone and everyone who's being made aware of this in part thanks to this administration's Stupid Evil tendencies and want to do something to stop American imperialism as a result? I swear every single thread if someone suggests things in America are bad they get piled on by a mix of third worldist trolls who will tell you that actually you have it great and Americans "deserve" to suffer or leftcom parodies who think anything other than sitting around sneering at people is reactionary.
Furthermore: For the hell of it let's say the US Government really wanted you dead.
They wouldn't go after you, drag you to a camp, "monitor you."
They'd use the built in hardware backdoors in your phones to blow them up the next time you take a phone call from mom, they'd use the smart system in your home to cause a gas leak, they'd disable your cars breaks at a stoplight.
Good luck finding any sort of encrypted and non bugged fed funded hardware, if exit nodes from fed funded TOR already worries you, don't, the NSA already has a backdoor in your hardware, and no OS or prep will save you.
They won't wait years, days, or minutes, they get a clearing and do it, it's so simple and easy now that there is no purpose in doing it how the Nazis did it, the modern USA has become far worse than the Stasi, the Cheka, or the Gestapo and SS ever were. You can encrypt all you'd like, the NSA will just use sonar to track down all your in person speeches anywhere that isn't more than 150 feet away from electronics.
If you really pissed them off and somehow out maneuver them two things will happen
-A man will come find you, if they know you go to the door with a gun they will wait until you're outside, within 6 feet they will speak one word, you'll fall over from a heart attack.
Or
-You get gunned down by a cop, they write down that it was you who shot first JUST LIKE Phil Schneider, just like William Cooper, who regardless of what you think their conclusions of where the NWO was going, they basically both ended up being murdered and had their files fabricated, so idiots to this day can go "Question everything except official government death reports."
You won't go down a martyr you'll go down as a awful accident no one could have predicted.
<SO YOU'RE SAYING WE SHOULD GIVE UP?! WE SHOULD DO NOTHING?!
No?
But Marx said that socialism will come about when it materially can, you shouldn't stop but until everyone is on board nothing will.
Vanguard parties of any form are not going to be able to take hold of things any more, especially not in the USA where democrats and republicans rule, they are as much of a relic as political prisoners.
You need to come up with a new solution to new problems. Because without that there is only being a useful idiot.
>>2522223Because it means you haven't been paying attention to the last 70 years on this planet, not even to the last 30. Most likely because you're a liberal.
Sorry but if you think people here still need to "be informed" of the evils of America and it's war criminal cast of presidents, you might be severely retarded
>>2522140If you want a real-life visual example, just go for a quick drive to the poor rural white outskirts of your town and then drive to the poor urban black part of your town and compare what you see, particularly the kinds of businesses and non-residential infrastructure.
In the poor black inner city you see liquor stores and pawnshops and footlockers and cell phone stores and bail bonds loansharks and check cashing loansharks and ambulance chaser lawfirms and stores that buy the gold from your teeth. No free spaces, nowhere for people to hang out, nowhere for people to exercise their first amendment rights, just a bunch of predatory businesses which all serve the same function of sucking up what little wealth the local residents have and giving it all back to Whitey. There is no place that all local citizens of this community can go to to congregate and have meetings and discuss whats going on in their community and decide what to do about it, there's nothing but buildings with bars over the windows run by parasites who don't give a shit about the local community at all. They can't build a community center or a meeting hall or anything like that because the city isn't interested in doing any kind of development in that part of town unless it's something that draws in lots of business and wealth and gentrifies the community and gets rid of all the poor black people. The black church used to be backbone of the Civil Rights Movement, but the black church depends on black families to survive and when communities are systemically driven into poverty and drug addiction and criminalized by the War on Drugs and entire generations of fathers are incarcerated or killed, the black family falls apart and generations of young black people grow up in broken homes and impoverished chaotic environments and they don't go to church anymore, the black churches don't get any financial assistance from the government, so they fade away and you don't see them much anymore, the black church is not nearly the cultural force it used to be, the strong community and family values that kept black communities together and allowed them to fight back against the racist Empire were deliberately and insidiously eroded away by The Empire and its white nationalist agenda. Even doing something as simple as gathering in a park or some public place is not possible, any time a large group of black people forms in the inner city it's only a matter of time before the police show up and make them disperse.
The poor white part of town is a somewhat different story. You see farms and grain silos and agricultural processing plants and lumber mills and lumber yards and freight yards and all these places where the local people work hard at their blue collar jobs that don't pay very much money and they drive dirty pickup trucks and drink a lot of cheap beer. White churches are everywhere and dominate the landscape and they wield tremendous sociopolitical influence, everywhere you look there's an evangelical Christian church where everyone congregates every Sunday to discuss how liberal woke culture is taking over our schools and our media and our culture and what must be done about it. The smaller local businesses are things like farming supply stores and general stores and sporting goods stores and gun clubs and farmer's markets and diners and bars all owned by the same people who frequent them, not outsiders setting up predatory franchises to exploit and perpetuate the poverty and crime and moral decay of a community. The rural white people won't stand for businesses like that in their decent Christian rural town, they actually some say in what gets built in their neighborhood and what doesn't, wheres the poor black people in the inner city have no say at all. People can pretty much congregate as they please, people can gather in large groups and the police never come in and break it up, they can even form armed militia groups and go out in the boonies and shoot their assault rifles for target practice and the police or locals won't be bothered a bit, they'll likely want to join in. There are two different Americas.
One thing that's pretty odd and interesting about this is, in the latter example of the poor white rural area where everyone's a good ol' boy - it's not actually a perfect monoculture of nothing but white people - in many places, especially the Deep South, you'll find random conservative country black people living out in the white rural areas, immersed in the American rural redneck culture and way of life and mostly accepted and treated as equals in the community, where the population density is so low that everyone tends to know each other quite well thus racial barriers tend to break down more easily and the strong fundamentalist Christian values are something poor black Americans and poor white Americans will always have in common.
Pretending the US doesn't have any revolutionary potential is one of the few ways that thirdie copers can pretend to be superior. And it's not even real. The average thirdie shithole has far less chance of revolution due to extreme religious and/or ethnic chauvinism
>>2521530>>2521579your are literally american lol
>>2522286I’m not pretending to he oppressed, the world would be better if I and every other American dropped dead and I’m the only one honest enough to admit it
>>2522301>world would be better if I and every other American dropped deadyou first than lol u know your not special and better than everyone else right? thats all misanthropy is.
>>2522223Seventy years of deliberate internal decline pushed by sadism. Without imperialism the US would have collapsed.
>>2522235Insane cowardice and catastrophism, combined with technological illiteracy.
>>2522305Not worth it unless I take a meaningful number of powerful and important people with me, those people do not meet in large groups
Would any of my fellow Comrades like to give an In-Depth Intellectual critique of my Dialectical Materialist analysis of the Material conditions of the U$, particularly with regards to the Internal Colonies/Oppressed Nations of New Afrika, Aztlan, and the First Nations at
>>2521941 , ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>2522309>Insane cowardice and catastrophism, combined with technological illiteracy.I cited cases of fabricated police assassinations.
I won't pull up every single article on NSA backdoors built into hardware but the fact that you don't remember reading them as early as 2014 tells me i have nothing more to say to you.
>CowardiceNo, I'm not saying I'm afraid to die, I'm saying it would be pointless. It's critique not cowardice.
>CatastrophismIsrael literally can blow up pagers that were memed as "The safe untraceable alternatives to controlled fed phones" it's not sensationalism of any sort.
>>2522237This got me to thinking about something:
You're a poor black guy living in the inner city, you've got no social mobility, no opportunities, all the industry's gone and there's no decent work anymore, just service-sector mcjobs that pay an unliveable slave wage, there's crime and chaos everywhere, if you call the cops they either hang up the phone or they come kick your ass and throw in jail for bothering them, you are totally outside of civilization despite living in its epicenter. What do you do?
One thing you could do is just say fuck the city, make a plan and figure a way to scrape together some money and hit the ejector seat, find a cheap house or trailer in the rural middle of nowhere and get a job driving a truck or something. Then you slowly begin to adapt to your new lifestyle, you start wearing dirty wrangler jeans and work boots and plaid button down shirts and a raggedy John Deere cap, you become so assimilated into the local community that their racism and paranoia begins to subside and they get used to you, they even start picking up some your mannerisms. You drive around in your dirty Ford pickup truck and the police wave and smile to you and you wave back. You can go to church and talk about Jesus and the liberals and the evils of homosexuality and the importance of traditional family values with other likeminded people, you can keep a massive military arsenal and shoot guns at the gun range with the local militia nuts and the off-duty cops and to them you're just another ally who loves freedom and hates the government.
Is this what is happening right now? Is this why country music and rap music are starting to sound more and more indistinguishable from one another? Is this why you are starting to see black Trumpers at Trump rallies being accepted into the movement as temporary token allies? Are white racist MAGA rednecks ironically beginning to make progress at building soliditary with working class black America which leftists have so miserably failed to do?
Western Communists need to get a job. In AI, robotics, automation, and Machine Learning.
Then radicalize and unionize. Because aren't Communists supposed to seize the means of production?
But they don't. Because that would entail getting a job.
>>2528221>15 year old video about out of date techniques.<you are spreading misinformationlmao.
>>2528228the texhniques are still relevant
>>2528225All hype bubbles with nothing to do with the real economy
>>2528235Maybe if you've found some old networked box which hasn't been updated in a decade.
Moxie sold out btw. fuck him.
>>2528237Too late, the US is already in labor market recession as AI kills junior dev positions. However, the AI bubble keeps the American economy alive.
Yes, the AI bubble is a hype train. On the other hand, there are real and useful technologies being developed.
You're effectively engaged in wrecker behavior, what Porky fears most is "Best Capital Allocating Robot", because it automates him out of a job, actually realized OGAS, and cybersyn.
No other means to socialism will work, because you'll get euthanized by fashbots once the LTOV breaks down at capitalist hyper accumulation.
>>2528478Your colleague seized the means of production from 5 to 11. The colleague you're fucking seized the means of production from 11 to 9.
Congratulations, now we have socialism.
>>2521518Western Communists Need To touch grass and Form ANYTHING
They already tried the urban guerilla shit and it ended with weirdo cults who just engage in a few acts of illegalism before disbanding like the Weather Underground or all of those crazy Japanese organizations.
>>2522235>They'd use the built in hardware backdoors in your phones to blow them up the next time you take a phone call from mom, they'd use the smart system in your home to cause a gas leak, they'd disable your cars breaks at a stoplight.I have some important information to share about thMY VACUUM CLEANER IS STRANGLING ME AAAAAAAAA
>>2536890
Surveillance and AI prediction. We are so fucked.
Electronic warfare is the future and unlike conventional assymmetric warfare, a guerilla terrorist group can cause quite a lot of damage and chaos in ways that law enforcement and military personnel are not prepared for. A bomb being set off or a mass shooting, the authorities are trained and prepared to deal with these acts of terrorism and it is very easy to locate where the attack is coming from and unlikely for the perpetrator to survive or escape apprehension after such an obvious act of violence. But what about a makeshift EMP device silently wiping out half a city's electrical grid at the speed of light? Or what about hundreds of low-cost battery powered micro jammers the size of a credit card that disconnect every mobile phone and wireless network within a city block being planted on city buses all over town? For very little investment and some pretty basic knowledge of electricity, e-war insurgents can cause billions of dollars in damages in ways that are very difficult to trace and the only response would be to harden all of the national electrical and communication infrastructure against such attacks with countermeasure devices, the costs of which would also be tremendous.
>>2522372>You drive around in your dirty Ford pickup truck and the police wave and smile to you and you wave back. Well I wouldn't go *that* far. I don't even know any white people who do that shit.
>Is this what is happening right now? Is this why country music and rap music are starting to sound more and more indistinguishable from one another?I think there's several things going on. One might be because of immigration, as odd as this sounds. The percentage of the foreign-born population has returned to another historic high (not unprecedented, but like how it was before immigration tightened up before World War II). But there's just so many people from all over the world, and it's like, who are these people? "And how do I relate to these people?" They might speak English but they don't speak the same cultural "language," but white and black Americans do with some minor variation, and have the same regional accents more or less, because we are basically the same people. I don't think it's such a bad deal, and people are pretty similar around the world, but the shared history and culture of white and black Americans both makes for easier or more natural communication. It just "clicks."
Shared cultural interests, like the same sports.
Especially among working-class people in small towns, suburbs, exurbs. People who hang out at the Applebee's. Exhibit A.
Third spaces are a non-issue. Map out your workplace and see who could be linked up with and in what way. If your workplace is too small or you get no hits, apply to other places and move on to the next once you get a job.
The goal is an insurgency that eventually contests governance. We are in the unique position as workers to map out society at a much more granular level than the existing state, which has to settle for a birds eye view. Everything begins and ends with deep social analysis.
Also, cells need to broadcast their existence in order to get in touch with one another. The goal is to grow a cell around a couple committed comrades via face to face recruitment, and many of these cells working together on specific campaigns without any open recruitment or sharing sensitive info. At first it's just us, the ideological communists who come to this conclusion, that will be seeding cells. Eventually it will be a unified party that sends comrades out into unorganized areas to do the work.
Build funnel groups that are low-stakes but can be used for education and further filtering via conversations and low-stakes trust building action. E.g. a charity group, a shooting club made up of friends, a book club for the nerds. These can gather in people's homes, outside at a meeting spot, or even in churches. We don't strictly need third spaces, the truth is we won't get safe/neutral third spaces to work in, society is structured for the reproduction of bourgeois rule and everything is political. At the very least you'll always have a home and a job.
None of this is new, this is how the bolsheviks and to a certain extent the chinese did it.
We actually have some advantages they didn't: dense information storage capacity, ease of publishing, cryptographic identity authentication, encryption, and possibly/temporarily anonymous communication between anyone in the same country via meshnets. These are huge advantages that solve some of the key logistical issues bolsheviks faced. Every cell can control a cryptographic identity and sign it's communications. Every individual in a cell can do the same. Everything can be encrypted, and data can be sent over meshnets or through minuscule physical mediums like microsd that won't be found in a cop frisk. This works heavily in our favor, since we can more often prove who we are talking to; don't have to maintain physical headquarters; can prove who we are without providing or having any shared secret knowledge; and can communicate without fear of snooping. The main issues are organizational now rather than technical. Less technical expertise is needed. The main thing is for this model, and the truth of the specific ways past successful communists organized, to be spread among alienated ideological communists. It's sad that we have no hub online to generate consensus. Revleft is dead, leftypol is dead, reddits were never an option. We're missing the very first step which is for the intellectuals to come to the right consensus based on the history of revolution. Right now that history is buried and few people are promoting it.
>>2537043
>this is how the bolsheviks and to a certain extent the chinese did it.That was a hundred years ago, now we live in the 21st century surveillance state where the workplace is an authoritarian regime under 24/7 surveillance and unions and labor organizing are dead.
Also the workplace might not be the best place to start the revolution considering it won't be too much longer now before most of us don't even have a fucking workplace anymore.
>>2521764AmeriKKKa has fucked us over for decades, fuck the US and any """"""leftists"""" or """''minorities""""" that live there, they brought this bullshit upon themselves and their egotiscal self centered world view, an amerikkkan would climb a ladder and pull it over leaving everyone else behind, even their own fellow countrymen let alone the global south, you are an amerikkkan and want to help the international proletariat ? buy a gun, as many bullets as you can, save one, and start shooting every single men, women and child you see, if they are an politician, government official or CEO (as if there was any difference) prioritize them, do that until you are empty, use the last bullet on yourself, if every amerikkkan """"leftist""" does this maybe the world has a future, if you are from europe or the zionist entity and want to help i encourage you doing the same
>>25370701. all that's required is the ability to have conversations with coworkers, not necessarily on the clock. This is not a high bar
2. if we all lose our jobs and there's a huge surplus population then I'd advise going door to door and seeing who else is in the same boat and organizing the unemployed, and immediately engaging in taxation or some form of banditry to keep yourself fed and free
>>2537260Only people seriously committed to liberation would join. Don't expect it to be like a mass above-ground org where the goal is to make anyone join and then educate them. Educate and vet them first in low stakes front groups that can build their resolve and knowledge of the scope of injustice and what it takes to win. Secondary reasons to join could be a sense of agency in a chaotic world, camaraderie, and the safety net provided by mutual aid - all the things missing in society for the average person.
>>2521599i'm still in awe at how stupid this take is, even two weeks after it was dropped.
>>2537260if someone is too ADHD to read give them youtube videos
also people dont need to be super theorybrained to get involved in revolutionary politics
keep it simple
the system doesnt work we need a new system we can organize whats necessary now and form a group based on that interest of making dual power its easy to see its necessity
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