🗽
UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
>Dictatorship of the Spectacle Edition ZA HASANU, ZA BURGURUThread for hellish discussion of the Dying Burger Reich: Things are going to continue to happen in the stupidest ways possible that no one really takes seriously, where every single person compulsively reacts with either cynical grifting or useless panic and appealing to a political system of liberal democracy that is entirely dead and irrelevant. things will continue to get gradually worse, more people will lose their jobs and homes, the most destitute and marginalized will be oppressed by state-backed domestic terrorism, but the decay will simply continue and everyone who isn't actively being imprisoned and forced into slavery or outright exterminated will simply ignore it and maintain a cognitive dissonance of believing a civil war is happening while living their lives in a mostly normal fashion. The death of the United States will be slow, painful, and insufferably annoying and stupid. 🏈 💵
Death to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the father of fascism, the enabler of ethnostates, the treatlerite tyrant, the protector of pedophiles, the exporter of ecocide, the captain of capitalism, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the invader of islands, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™ 🌭 🍔
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXUFLW8t2sntNn5jQO8vF7ai9x0fna3PVPrevious Thread:
>>2524275Remember to filter mass tor baiters, feds, and trolls
Not reporting is bourgeois
Violators will be launched from trebuchet
Stinky /ISG/ ass thread
>>2525918Marx could not have foreseen the Dictatorship of the Streamer-class because he did not understand human nature
Archiveranon is fucking slacking again
what a disappointment
>>2525924And for that, they are a true Marxist
>>2525926God DAMN that’s so 14 years old
>>2525932Do you think Thalmann knew what his fate would be? His eyes ate looking pretty dead for someone who said “our turn next” (he was only half right)
>>2525934Somehow they’re worse than words?
>>2525935Thälmann was a Communist with a capital C. Not an treatlero-narcissist. He understood the risks involved and the sacrifices required. The Worker's and Peasant's Red Army won in the end, and that's all that matters.
>>2525934a few typos here and there and your dad would be Bobby Baccalieri
>>2525938And the DDR lost despite being the best place to live in the Warsaw pact
>>2525932Lmao, I love leftypol. Beautiful day to be posting and protesting. Going to no kings, I’m in a small college town I’ll let y’all know how it went.
>>2525942Bring a No capitalist sign
This No Kings stuff is lib nonense ain't it
>>2525941if we fail a thousand times, we will be preparing for the thousand and first attempt
your burgerreich never failed, stay comfy in it, pat yourself on the back for it
>>2525942>small college town>attending no kingsbe honest, you're going there only to pull the liberal university chicks
>>2525944And maybe some red flags and some Palestinian flags.
>>2525947It is literally endorsed by Hillary Clinton.
>>2525949Burgerreich fails every day, it’s victories are hollow victories
The Palestine flag is the flag of the international proletariat
Who’s on the side of the establishment, the elites:
>Voters see Republicans as representing the elites by a 13-point margin over Democrats. However, voters associate Democrats with the establishment by a 9-point margin—suggesting that Democrats are increasingly seen as defenders of a broken system, which presents a greater liability than being the party of the wealthy or powerful. This perception is even more pronounced among swing voters, who associate Republicans with elites by a 15-point margin while linking Democrats to the establishment by 9 points.
>>2525954not at all. The strasserites here gleefully remind everyone that the eastern bloc
failed , of course also meaning that their Reich
won Enjoy your nazi victory, enjoy gulping the blood of the world
>>2525961>not at allI would not say this as the contradictions of the system become ever more glaring
>>2525963keep overdosing on your copium
america's tyrannical rule over (most of) the world is guaranteed for at least 40 more years. Could even go on for a century.
>>2525965>keep overdosing on your copiumI don’t need copium to see that the bourgeoisie are now running the country into the ground entirely.
>america's tyrannical rule over (most of) the world is guaranteed for at least 40 more years. Could even go on for a century.I don’t see it making it past this decade.
>>2525944I was thinking of two different signs
>What they’re doing in Gaza they’re bringing hereOr
>restore law and order arrest ICE, arrest trump, arrest Stephen Miller. Something like that, I’m gonna try and link up with the local commies. I think the RCP has a front group here, I saw some anti-war group at the last protest that had very similar signs and organizations as RCP.
>>2525951I’m married, pulled my lib wife protesting trump in 2016.
>>2525974>pulled wife at protestI fucking knew it
One day, I too will be successful
>>2525974>What they’re doing in Gaza they’re bringing hereThis one is good
>>2525980lmao why do even trump supporters draw vance's face fat as fuck
>>2526002The propaganda worked
>>2525943Amerian soymen are going trough a tragedy and you laugh, you laugh!
There's just something incredibly gay about no kings idk comrades, I'm not going to go
>>2526014Just use it as an opportunity to hang out with your comrades getting the Free Palestine message out.
1. what is the difference between CPUSA and PCUSA?
2. Why does the CPUSA and DSA have their flags on leftypol but not PSL and PCUSA?
>>2526014based
shun the libby cringe
fuse with the armchair
>>2525932Unconditional support for White Gladis in her crusade against yachts, may the seas run red with yacht-owner blood.
>>2525980I wish conservatives weren't so fucking stupid. Or at least keep star trek out of their fucking mouths.
Chances of any happenings on the no kangz protests?
>>2526041How many things did you see happen in the last no kangz protest?
>>2526042I had forgotten about it 100% lol
>>2526041All in on nothing ever happens
In a group chat w/ people going to the protest and the main topic is what to get for lunch after
>>2526040palestibros still haven't learned that blue-libs fully support zayonizum smh
>>2526040imagine if the Orange Retard sees pro-palestinians counter demo the No Kangz shitlibs and interprets this as a counter demo as a support for him, and thus starts becoming a Hamas-stan
>>2526057I want this to become a flag
>>2525980I agree with Ben Garrison for once, Trump fighting the big goberment by unintentionally collapsing the u.s gov makes him a true libertarian.
>>2526058in another life, I will become a webcomic artist and drive Stonetoss and Ben Garrison to suciide
>>2525943the soywars victims memorial will include the US infrastructure.
we are weeks into the Portland pseudo-happening and Evan Reif has still not lifted a single finger
s h a m e
Can't wait to do crimes today, comrades! That would be truly revolutionary, doing crimes. We have a #totallysecure telegram channel where we all plan our communist crimes together in a decentralized and decolonial fashion. Down with amerikkka and remember to be violent!
>>2526067beware of the trees next to your window
>>2526067It'd be better for you to join the Demokkkratic party and make Bernie the next president!!!
>>2526034Star Trek is socialist
>>2526034DNC took over any lib or left-wing protest these past two decades
>>2526075Oh but how so, kkkomrade? We should topple the amerikkkan government with our whatsapp and telegram channels! Haven't you ever heard the word "organize"?
>>2526084By donating to our favourite zionists of course my fellow liberal resistance(tm) member. Khämas has infiltrated our government and only giving Bernie and AOC all our money will give our greatest friend Israel all the tools to beat these evil socialists to the ground
>U.S. military build-up in the Caribbean aims to pressure Nicolás Maduro to quit or be captured, with officials eyeing a clean-out of the top 25–50 Chavistas; Trump has offered a $50M bounty on Maduro, and opposition figures see US action as the route to install leaders like María Corina Machado. - FT
tsmc arizona is now up and functioning. it's over
>>2526125They still need willing workers, and they need more than just semi conductor manufacturing. I have very mixed feelings about this though. It is possible that more adaptation will be required to factor this in.
>trump claims the people on the boats are terrorist superpredators hungering to kill americans
>returns the two that were rescued alive to venezuela
hmmm
>>2526135One Burger, Fried, with Cheese and Miracle Whip for All 🇺🇸🫡
>>2526150> nowadaysThat's been true for a long time. I would actually say twitterposting in usapol/outside of ISG is down however.
>>2526157'son on the 'test
>>2526159very disappointed in you
the committee will halve your rations for this month, comrade
>>2526129>>2526125Yeah, I need more information on this as soon as possible. I’m wondering what other developments are already successful or are going to be successful. I know Walmart is at least claiming to be investing seriously in manufacturing.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/10/15/walmart-exec-us-manufacturing-comeback.htmlIf the Trump administration is successful in their development of a real economy and is able to reindustrialize, not only will they have a solid basis for project 2025, not only we will also have much less time to act than I originally thought, ICE will be on more solid ground than the rest of, and be more supplied than the rest of us when the fake economy collapses.
>>2526157Is there an expert in incoherent retardbabble around who could explain the sign?
>>2526091It is pretty cringe but it's still important that we establish a united front against fascism, though of course keeping in mind not to forsake the essential socialist aspects of our side.
>>2526157USAnian protests are so performative and individualist man, like if you watch any protest from Europe or the third world you'll see uniformity and coordination amongst the collectives but in AmeriKKKa everyone is carrying their own quirky sign with a "funny" meme or "witty" line trying too hard to get 5 minutes of fame on social media.
Also, should have taken control of the bus and ran these fuckers over.
>>2526165>If the Trump administration is successful in their development of a real economy and is able to reindustrializeIt'll be decades before the US can reindustrialize and have a real economy again, and it'll will most likely collapse before reindustrialization can truly start.
>>2526157hopefully people reacted by holding hands and singing a powerful protest song at them
>>2526157nazis going 5 seconds without announcing their bbc cuckoldry fetish to random strangers
>>2526174>It'll be decades before the US can reindustrialize and have a real economy again, and it'll will most likely collapse before reindustrialization can truly start.I thought this, but now I want make sure there isn’t a possibility they somehow accelerated production schedules one way or another. That would genuinely hard counter revolutionaries if we found out too late.
>>2526091Everything in blue is semi-salvageable. Red is lethal amounts of cringe. Should be reported to the FDA.
Holy fizzle this whole shit is a nothing burger
Trump might actually be pissed that this won't be enough to invoke the insurrection act
>>2526185America is done with industry. America is the "ideas guy" now in the international market. America comes up with all the brilliant state-of-the-art technology ideas, other countries build it for us and do all of the work, we keep all of the money. This is a perfectly sound and sustainable economic model.
>>2526166I can explain the sign but would take (and give) psychic damage in the process of doing so. Maybe it's for the best that nobody explain it.
>>2526190I’m surprised he’s waiting around at all, and hasn’t simply just made up some bullshit and pulled the trigger already.
>>2526157>>2526166Thugshakers is a gay porn company mostly engaged in black gay porn from what I found. Q + Black Spade means sexual preference for black men. Background is frozen Hyperborea (esoteric nazism shit). Rest is self-explanatory. In the nazi scene skull masks were also normalized by Atomwaffen Division and fash mags like Ropeculture, published on Ironmarch.
>>2526191>America is the "ideas guy" now in the international market. America comes up with all the brilliant state-of-the-art technology ideas, other countries build it for us and do all of the work, we keep all of the moneyI mean that was the case the past few decades, but it definitely isn’t the ideas guy anymore, especially with cuts to research. I don’t quite know what it is right now, but I’m hoping it isn’t going to be an industrialized fourth reich and it just dies instead.
>>2526205He did it, he defeated le fascism with his quirky chungus costume!
bit of a long shot but I'm very fucking down bad. If anyone wants to hook me up with some food/transportation money, that'd be real killer. i'd rather ask here than e-beg on IG or something. Need dog food bad as hell.
You can use the magazine email
[email protected]https://www.amazon.com/Uber-Eats-Gift-Card-Delivery/dp/B079YNCBX2ALSO:
Do you think there's a niche for someone playing obscure/based/retro games (ie old DOS dungeon crawlers, 90s boomer shooters, gamecube era stuff) while also talking about politics? I feel like this format would work better with 2 people but I need to branch out in terms of content creation.
>>2526210sounds like the Russian empire to me
>>2526207this but unironically
>>2526197I don’t see it happening, the time to reindustrialize would have been under Obama. It’s a little too late now, 3 back to back deeply unpopular administrations. The media is completely untrusted, support for and from our “allies” is at an all time low, Americans are as unhealthy as ever and the ruling class is focused on build massive power sucking data centers straining an already over capacity and aging power grid. So they can build the equivalent of a parakeet mirror.
Also the Israel situation is driving a massive wedge between everyone, international and domestically. I think what the ruling class thinks they can do is round a bunch people up for slave labor, which might net them some semi-functional factories prone to sabotage and when discovered will only escalate the civil unrest.
>>2526210this is the nuclear age. you don't need a strong economy to be relevant anymore you just need the ability to project force. having enough nukes to destroy the world several times over automatically makes you relevant.
>>2526197The US can't reindustrialize at any appreciable scale because of decades of systemic changes that have been made to its legal, financial, and political system. Reindustrialization is directly counter to the economic model its monopolies need to survive, and even if it weren't oligarchic ideology is entirely opposed to everything necessary to make it happen. A few factories are going to be built, but they're not sustainable and short of executing the entire bourgeoisie and undoing the past 40 years of reforms there's nothing they can do about it.
>>2526219well the biggest issue is the price of labor, they need to address it since it caused off-shoring in the first place
Got back from the protest, it was super large but was disappointed there were no organizers there. Saw no comrades, it was mostly liberal win moms and like a bunch of boomer grandpa vets of the Cold War. Wife and I got interviewed by the Washington post tho. I think I flubbed my chance I was kinda of all over the place.
>>2526212download an AI image gen model
generate a bunch of images of Jesus wearing a MAGA hat or Trump in the Old Testament
go to a print shop and print them on random garbage like t-shirts and posters
hang out at your local MAGA hub and sell them for $20 each
teach a man to fish etc
>>2526223>I think I flubbed my chance I was kinda of all over the place.how hard can it be to say "we need communism now" and then walk away
>>2526226Its a dumb think to say, as 99% of people who are going to watch you say it on TV dont understand that word in the same way as you.
>>2526223Told you you were being a lib
>>2526226they'd cut it from the broadcast anyway
>>2526227who cares, you should have said uygha heil stalin or something cool and you cucked out
>>2526227That doesn't matter because they won't show you on TV regardless as soon as you use the C word. The point is the media are just looking for filler content to frame the narrative around the protest and if you agree to be interviewed you shouldn't give them that.
>>2526230deterministicslop
>>2526218Except all the problems that have lead to deindustrialization and de-arming are de-nuking the US too. Most of its arsenal are cold war relics and their efforts to build more are being thwarted by a combination of industrial incompetence and institutional rot. Just an example, but they rely on Los Alamos to build the nuclear payloads for these bombs, and that got shut down a few years ago because of workplace safety violations and managerial abuse. It's since opened up again under somewhat new management, but changing who is running the place isn't really going to make any difference because it's market forces that decide what gets made and how. It's only a matter of time before they suffer a catastrophe like that tnt plant in Tennessee.
The profit motive has so severely fucked the US that there's nothing it can actually do about it, because any positive change is going to affect profits, and so more money is going to be spent on making sure the problem goes unfixed rather than fixing it. It's just rot and looting from here on out until something so massive breaks that things can't possibly carry on as they have been. And if China keeps up this rare earths ban then we might already be there.
>>2526233look up who owns the washington post
https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/no-kings-protest-and-arrests-beginthat feel when you RSVP to the police sponsored protest only to be immediately arrested by the police
honkoid status?
>>2526220Saying that the price of labor is the biggest issue is like being in Birkenwald and saying the biggest issue is hunger.
>>2526240
s-sorry …
im… s-s-s-so sorry…
im… a f-f-failure….
pls gulag and reeducate me…
>>2526243>Birkenwald Buchenwald?
>>2526205>>2526207those costumes are prolly pretty good at cushioning blows though
>>2526243no, the price of labor is the main driver of historical materialism
>>2526230It was an article they were writing but they had me pose for some pics with my sign about Gaza. So at least I got to rep Palestine, only me and like 2 other people even had signs.
>>2526220currency hegemony has a lot more to do with it. but regarding labor you shouldn't just say "the price of labor was too high so they outsourced." That framing buys into porky's narrative. What really happened is that the imperial core working class actually had strong unions before the 1960s and that lowered the
rate of profit which incentivized outsourcing. Keep in mind higher wages = lower profits. By framing it as "price of labor is too high" you make it sound like the worker's fault. No, the rate of exploitation was getting too low for the capitalist's liking, and the capitalists are the ones who made the call to outsource, not the workers.
>>2526255ok sure, but the term 'price of labor' fits better for all modes of production, there were no wages or profits when the slave economy of the roman empire ran out of slaves
>>2526210>>2526217>>2526219>>2526220>>2526243>>2526255My fears has completely evaporated as I have now realized there is in fact a construction worker shortage, which were worsened thanks to ICE raids, and they will in fact be building slower than usual, and the administration will have to be really aggressive with building up a population of enslaved workers (which will fuck them almost immediately). Thank you for the thought provoking discussion.
>>2526255>That framing buys into porky's narrative.That's an important point. "The price of labor is too high" is an obfuscating way of saying "worker living standards are too high." Profit demands, oligarch ideology, and class war are the problems, not workers being paid too much.
>>2526261Yes comrade. 2025 will be the first year of this countries history that had net negative migration. Without the flow of cheap labor sustaining capitalism, porky is in a real pickle
>>2526261I don't know if your fears should be completely alleviated. The haute bourgeoisie are aware of these problems to the extent that they can actually be aware of anything, and they're trying to fix them in their typically horrible tech fascist ways. If they're successful company towns are going to seem quaint by comparison.
>>2526268no way, those tech cities are gonna be great. you preform labor just by creating personal data which you get a portion of the profits of when it's sold. it's free money and there's no need to have a job
>>2526261the TMSC company was suppose to start in 2024, that speaks volumes.
>>2525943vegans eatin cheap now
>>2526207you did it, you defeated le fascism by mocking le neurodivergents that somehow touch more grass than you
>>2526268>they're trying to fix them in their typically horrible tech fascist ways>Finally, the CEO of a brokerage house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system, and asked: “How do I maintain authority over my security force after the event?” The event. That was their euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, solar storm, unstoppable virus, or malicious computer hack that takes everything down.>This single question occupied us for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from raiders as well as angry mobs. One had already secured a dozen Navy Seals to make their way to his compound if he gave them the right cue. But how would he pay the guards once even his crypto was worthless? What would stop the guards from eventually choosing their own leader?>The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers – if that technology could be developed “in time”.>It’s as if they want to build a car that goes fast enough to escape from its own exhaustI tried to reason with them. I made pro-social arguments for partnership and solidarity as the best approaches to our collective, long-term challenges. The way to get your guards to exhibit loyalty in the future was to treat them like friends right now, I explained. Don’t just invest in ammo and electric fences, invest in people and relationships. They rolled their eyes at what must have sounded to them like hippy philosophy.
>This was probably the wealthiest, most powerful group I had ever encountered. Yet here they were, asking a Marxist media theorist for advice on where and how to configure their doomsday bunkers. That’s when it hit me: at least as far as these gentlemen were concerned, this was a talk about the future of technology.https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoffIf that’s the case, I think we be just fine. I got scared for a second because thought they developed a practical counter for the proletariat.
>>2526273Yeah we’re good. We’re going to make it.
>>2526273Toyota's halting construction of its multi billion dollar ev battery plant because Trump fucked with the inflation reduction act. The different sections of the bourgeoisie are working at cross purposes to each other.
That's one of the biggest impediments to reindustrializing tbh. They desperately need to compete with China, but they absolutely refuse to submit to the discipline necessary to develop a plan to do so. Their only plan is to make a bunch of money available and hope the market does something about it, and even though all indications at this point underscore how unfeasible that is they're not doing anything to change it.
>>2526268It's not going to happen because the rest of the world will continue to develop while the US attempts to de-develop, it's a nonsense policy because in practical terms it puts itself at the periphery and it only makes sense if you specifically subscribe to the idea that the US is so exceptional, it can literally turn back the clock and recreate industrial monopolies
who has the screenshots that compare quotes from settlers to the original sources and show the settlers book is misquoting shit
>>2526286
>What you’re seeing is neoliberalism as usual
i'm aware. i just reversed the wording of your own stupid post at you and you inferred a bunch of things about me that aren't true.
>>2526296
>Not the same poster and you’re still a retarded liberal for calling this fascism
then why didn't you respond to both anons who made that mistake?
>>2526273i don't think a one year delay is that bad
>>2526287Yeah, it is a nonsense policy. What's most concerning to me though is that the bourgeoisie have been raised their entire lives to see it as sensible, and they're more than willing to burn through their humam "capital" to try and make it work.
the more anarchist theory I read the more I think about how a lot of revolutionary era maoist stuff has tinges of it. the focus on the masses, the decentralization, I'll admit that the bulk of 'anarchists' aren't actually reading any sort of theory beyond the occasional zine.
///
But we think that, in the time of revolution, the only weight the Anarchists can have with the masses will be through action: putting our ideas in practice, preaching by example; by this means only can the crowd be led. Yet we should be thoroughly aware that, in spite of all, these acts will have no effect upon the masses unless their understanding has been thoroughly prepared by a clear and well-defined propaganda, unless they themselves stand on their own feet, prompted by ideas previously received. Now, if we shall succeed in disseminating our ideas, their influence will make itself felt; and it is only on condition that we know how to explain and render them comprehensible that we shall have any chance of sharing in the social transformation. Hence we need not be afraid of not obtaining followers, but rather to be on the watch for hindrance from those who consider themselves leaders.
In times of revolution its precursors are always outdone by the masses. Let us spread our ideas, explain them, elucidate them, remodel them if necessary. Let us not fear to look the truth in the face. And this propaganda, far from alienating the adherents of our cause, cannot but help to attract thereto all who thirst after justice and liberty.
–Jean Grave, A Moribund Society and Anarchism
>>2526304
nobody said collaborate with liberals
>>2526305there is no peasantry in america
at least not in enough numbers
>>2526293Sakaii was bullied by mean white girls in school and this incident formed his whole world view.
t. friend of Sakai's nephew
>>2526304
almost like "neoliberalism" is just fascism minus welfare and wartime socdem policies
>>2526310
nobody said antifascism. this entire conversation is just you inferring shit nobody said because anon A mocked liberals and anon B mocked anon A for not being much better
>>2526297Hitler was illiberal my guy. He said this in 1938:
>But if it should ever again come to war, then Germany’s iron and steel production stands prepared for the highest achievements. I am grubbing around in the soil of Germany and where I can find even as little as one thousand tonnes I dig them out. But a procedure such as this can only be done by a state which, like Italy or us, has made itself independent of capitalist methods, for whom the exploitation of national raw materials is only important from the point of view of earnings, in other words so-called profitability. But these raw materials must be gained one way or the other, because what must be important is not whether a capitalist can make money with them but whether the power of the national economy
can be increased. This alone is the task, for which—naturally—only the possible degree to which the general welfare can be increased is at all important in the end.
>>2526310
ok, do not collaborate. fight fascism on your own then. good luck.
>>2526313green text fail
hang your head in shame
>>2526314uh oh. you said there's fascism. now he's gonna let you have it
>>2526313hitler was a lib and so are you
KPD offered a united front to the SPD in the election(not sure which one in 1932 I think?), SPD refused
>>2526313One speech does not make pratice
>>2526319
we completely agree on letting America die
but there is fascism. It is the ruler of America since at least 1945. It's right wing is GOP, it's left wing is DNC. The right wing fascism of America is proving to be a great progressive force since it is accelerating the demise of the Empire for the good of the world, to the detriment of its strasserite population.
>>2526319
>don't stop the empire from invading venezuela or helping israel commit genocide because it's sabotaging itself or something and also it's not fascism it's just sparkling neoliberalism
>>2526319
Sadly, turning into an even more hardcore authoritarian country, even maybe fascist isn't "sabotaging itself"
>>2526318>>2526324Hitler only recognizes
private ownership insofar as it is used according to the principle
of “common benefit ahead of private benefit,” which means,
concretely, insofar as it is used within the framework of the
objectives set by the state.
Hitler in 1944:
However—and now we differentiate ourselves from the liberal state—
these achievements of highly developed individuals must also lie
within the framework of the benefit to all . . . the liberal state holds the
view, everything is good which benefits the individual and is useful to
the individual, even at the risk of it being harmful to the whole. The
National Socialist state on the other hand has the idea, or advocates the
recognition, that while the strength lies in the individual, the deed of the
individual, the creative action of the individual must still lie in the sense
of the benefit of the whole. . . . The highest achievements of the indi-
vidual, but corrected by the interests of a community, which in the final
analysis must by its actions and its commitment under harsh conditions,
in other words in the war, also cover for and protect the achievements
of the individual. It is therefore now only sensible and natural that the
achievement of the individual is weighed to that degree to which this
achievement benefits the whole. This modification of the concept of private
ownership is not even the slightest restriction of the individual, individual
ability, individual creativity, diligence and so forth, but, on the contrary,
it gives the individual the greatest possibilities to develop. It attaches
only one condition to this, that the development not be permitted to
proceed to the detriment of the community, in other words, in the end,
ahead of everything else stands the total interest of the whole. (Kotze and
Krausnik 1966, 339)
>>2526334
Yeah, that's why I say "even more hardcore"
>>2526332ok but hitler was a lib and so are you
>>2526339you're running cover for fascism by calling it something much less dangerous and sinister
>>2526342>liberalism is less dangerous and sinister than fascismking leopold ii was doing liberalism in the congo when he killed more 10 million congolese
>>2526345compared to what came before, liberalism was historically progressive. sorry sis
>>2526348>historically progressive = good for people's livesishygddt
L’homme seul, l’homme seul, en sa fureur extrême,
Met un brutal honneur à s’égorger soi-même.
Man, man alone, in his extreme fury,
Places a brutal honor in cutting his own throat.
>>2526348marx speciically called events that resulted in the mass murder of almost entirely white people in english rural towns historically progressive
Does anyone have a link to the CIA docs that show the Hungarian revolution was a color revolution propped up by the US?
>>2526361Wasn't there a newer release from like 2 years ago?
>>2526364was it really you when you posted that you had a sportscar and you'd spend 400 on bitches etc.. or an impersonator?
>>2526351to be fair to weed anon it's very confusing to most people that marxism uses terms in a way different than anyone else
>colloquial = how most people use it<specialized = how marxists use itcolloquial>historical progress = things getting better>materialist = when care about having lots of nice stuff more than you care about people>idealist = having big and important ideas that you try to live up tospecialized<historical progress = driving historical changes whether good or bad<materialist = you think matter is real and thoughts are byproducts of matter<idealist = you think matter is an illusion and only thoughts are real >>2526367tbf I don't think idealism necessarily means matter is an illusion. It just gives primacy to thoughts over matter. Some strands of idealism do deny the reality of matter altogether, but not all.
>>2526362Who made that claim? Where?
>>2526365I've lived many lives and must continuously work to assure reactionary thought doesn't worm its way back into my brain
>>2526371i was trying to keep the post short but yes that's true
>>2526370based. I respect Houdini a little bit more since he posted this. Makes him more real.
and wtf is a tripod and how does it work please? Because the tripcode in picrel is different to the one he has in this thread
>>2526354Indeed, the transition to industrial society was brutal across the globe, peasants had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it and those who became members of the proletariat faced every manner of misery. There's a reason social democratic/Catholic reform movements gained traction at the end of the 19th c.
That being said while colonialism connected the world market it stunted capitalist development in the non-European world in many ways and for that reason the anti-colonial nationalists of the 20th century can also be considered progressive and imo the last great bourgeois revolutionaries.
>>2526367It seems a little bit deterministic to always define historical progress like that. Would total societal collapse caused by climate change and tech-fascists be considered historically progressive? Cuz all signs point to that being where humanity is headed to right now.
>>2526378> Because the tripcode in picrel is different to the one he has in this threadit's the same tho
>>2526374hey you just stated your real lived experience, man. It's not like vain bitches do not exist, they do. But I believe you will find a slightly insane goth leftist cutie soon and you will both get married and move into corporate.
>>2526381>It seems a little bit deterministic to always define historical progress like that. i'm just telling you how marxists use it.
Stalin for example called even slavery historically progressive over primitive communism:
<"The slave system would be senseless, stupid and unnatural under modern conditions. But under the conditions of a disintegrating primitive communal system, the slave system is a quite understandable and natural phenomenon, since it represents an advance on the primitive communal system."https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm >>2526381ok just say that instead of the moralizing you posted then
>>2526383The day I crashed out over all that we ended up having a whole group therapy type sesh that day within my IRL group about how fucking stupid those views are.
>>2526346the anon you are responding to never said whether historically progressive. anon simply said king leopold ii was doing liberalism in the congo when he killed more than 10 million congolese. do you agree or not?
>>2526380Anti-colonialism is the best product of colonialism.
Colonialism did not necessarily stump capitalist transition in colonised places (maybe it did for a few) but colonialism made the transition to capitalism INEVITABLE in the colonised places. For this, Colonialism was a great historically progressive movement as it means in
>>2526367 >>2526390
periodic reminder that you do not practice what you preach, fed
>>2526390
too bad most anons think:
legal tactics = shit posting on imageboards
illegal tacics = smoking weed while doing it
>>2526388of course I agree, but fascism remains worse
>>2526378>based. I respect Houdini a little bit more since he posted this. Makes him more real. seems retarded. why date women who expect you to drop half a paycheck on a meal. what kind of meal is worth that much money. seems like he goes after shallow bougie bitches and then projects that onto all broads
what im currently working on:
your local 'autonomous structures' are still going to be laced in settler-colonialism. The super structure as it exists is rooted in settler colonalism. Your group doing a land acknowledgement doesn't change that the state, the capitalist backed state, has millions of people living in reservations, nor does it change the resources being ripped apart on the daily to maintain that state. This is fundementally the biggest issue with anarchism of the individualist variety (byfar the most popular and espoused variety, as this variety is very easy for the capitalist state to co-opt). This individualist anarchism is not based in any real material theory, it's a vibes-based interjection that hyper centers the "individual", one doesn't need to think long and hard as to how well this belief system works with neoliberal imperialist capitalism.
Neoliberalism hit its full force with the Clinton era, Reagan slashed and burned the forests of 'social imperialist democracy', and Clinton built the came and build the chainlink fences, paved the parking lots over what was left. We should remember that our cultural frame of reference is a lot shorter than we imagine. Especially when we consider the pre-internet era, the narratives that were disseminated were culturally aligned with what continued to propagate the imperialist norms of the Amerikan capitalist empire. Consider the media control prior to the internet, every thing has to go through a publishing company, everything must be distributed via easily controlled platforms. We've seen how strongly traditional media firms have aligned with Israel, despite the overwhelming brutality of genocide commited against the Palestinians. We can view all media prior to the internet in these terms. We can know that these positions of power have long only allowed viewpoints that aligned with the imperialism, and with this lens we can now view the anarchist 'vibes' of the 90s, and how they are a perfect pairing with neoliberalism.
>>2526394>fascism remains worse [than liberalism]<after being given an example of a holocaust scale event carried out by liberals as part of a civilizing mission??????????
>>2526390
we were sharing an open container of alcohol while canvassing for zohran last week does that count?
>>2526389>>2526380Depends on the colonial power I guess. Belgium, Spain and Portugal did nothing but genocide, rape and plundering of minerals on their colonies while England and France at least developed industry and markets.
>>2526399and people shit on leftcoms for writing the Great Alibi (the author of which had to escape Nazi persecution in his boyhood too) kek
>>2526399belgium did it for profit, germany did it because they believed in racial hierarchy and extermination
>>2526399Fascism is colonialism and imperialism turned inwards, simple as. That's why people fret over the Holocaust where millions of European Jews died more than the genocide of millions of Congolese or the starvation of Indians (and also heavy lobbying and campaigning by Zionists too tbf).
>>2526404>belgium didn't believe in racial hierarchy when slaughtering millions of congoleseobjectively false, but even
if were true (again, it's
not), the beliefs or lack thereof behind the actions don't really change the result.
>>2526404both nations did it for both profit and for racial ideology. those aren't mutually exclusive motives at all
>>2526401that's not my point
It's not like Belgium
had to do any good
The savage rule of the Belgians made sure that the different tribes of the Congo will unite as one national entity, will fight against the Congolese, and when independent, they will form the basis of the new society along capitalist lines. Since they learned first hand how vulnerable their previous society was.
This is what leftcoms and other anti-natlib 'leftists' do not understand. Natlib in many parts of Africa and Asia did not defend an old 'pre-existing nation', it created new ones out of different tribes who constantly fought each other. When they say 'proles of all countries must stick together', this presupposes a proletariat in all countries. What proletariat is there among the tribes of Papua New Guinea for example? Beyond driving out the colonisers, Decolonial natlib movements were great because they relegated ancient tribal societies to the dustbin of history (most of them, unfortunately some failures persist), and forged the people instead into a nation.
>>2526413yes they were racists but cmon. they were there to make a quick buck, not because they were interested in ethnically cleansing africa.
>>2526395taht is called Growth of Man. Also, never underestimate what we are ready to do for pussy.
>>2526411As I said before, these aren't protests just glorified performance art where everyone goes to show off their quirky and witty signs.
>>2526411where is Felix when we need him to call out a brunching strasserite smh
>>2526414By making a profit even at the expense of millions you're eventually gonna get somewhere with the productive forces being developed, as fucked up as it is. germany killed for the joy of killing, there's no endgame for that except a planet of germans. fuck that
brave USAnians our out there. they're clapping. they're marching. they're eating burger.
BT ran a compilation. Apparently the crowd assistance was good, across all the US.
>>2526431>they're eating burger.they want to be brunching, instead.
these peaceful marches will CONVINCE trump to stop it. it being all the bad things.
>>2526416>yes they were racists but cmon. they were there to make a quick buck, not because they were interested in ethnically cleansing africa.it would have actually been more profitable to not remove limbs from slaves who failed to meet rubber harvesting quotas and instead develop better means of production for harvesting said rubber. they were actually way more interested in exterminating indigenous people than you are making them out to be.
>>2526430killing people for the sake of killing isn't economically profitable, you're just shrinking the labor force for no reason, that's why fascism is uncompetitive in the face of socialism lol
>>2526432that lib hey hey ho ho chant was the cherry on top of the cake
>>2526415Natlib movements that changed a colony of tribes and warlords into a modern capitalist nation-state were good but subsequent natlib movements were there was already a capitalist nation-state and the only thing that changed is that the power went from the hands of a foreign bourgeoise to a national one are like whatever at best and of no concern to communists according to most leftcoms (and I tend to agree with them)
>>2526442which colonised country outside of Europe already had a capitalist system with a national bourgeoisie?
>>2526442also, driving out a foreign bourgeoisie in favour of a national bourgeoisie is objectively progressive
>>2526450>make america good againwhen was it good exactly?
>>2526425Ozymandias's plan is pure liberalism at its most idealist form (bro literally sent out psychic waves to make people more susceptible to believing in alien attacks) and is bound to inevitably fail because the material reasons for the conflict between the US and USSR are still there despite being out on hold on light of a common enemy.
The truth is that the world of Watchmen (much like our own) is doomed since the invention of the nuclear bomb and AmeriKKKa's leadership being overtaken by insane war mongering fascists.
>>2526452great orgy of liberals
if Kamala was ellected the exact same thing would be happening but libs would be at brunch instead of faking action at anything that is not stopping communism.
>>2526441no moral statements were made. it's objectively true that the Belgian exploitation of Congolese labor would have been more profitable without removing limbs from the slaves when they failed to meet arbitrary quotas.
>>2526173>USAnian protests are so performative and individualist man, like if you watch any protest from Europe or the third world you'll see uniformity and coordination amongst the collectives but in AmeriKKKa everyone is carrying their own quirky sign with a "funny" meme or "witty" lineYes it's very American
>>2526419>As I said before, these aren't protests just glorified performance art where everyone goes to show off their quirky and witty signs.Yeah. Well the dilemma with Trump is that he wants the left to do Weather Underground / Patty Hearst / Antifa Helter Skelter riot shit because it's a reason to sic the cops on leftist punks and beat the crap out of them, which pleases his base and is a way for him to increase his own power. It's all about constructing a "threat." The whole deal with sending the National Guard into cities is to attempt to polarize things, and create a situation where you have the blue-haired baristas fighting the troops (and losing), and Trump thinks he can win on those optics. But if you're beating up some guy in a frog costume it backfires.
>>2526455took the joke seriously award
>>2526464im still waiting for him to tell me which non-europeans colony already had capitalist system with a national bourgeoisie
he found it easier to discuss about comic books
>>2526446South Africa, Rhodesia, Algeria, Cuba,
PalestineNot to say ending apartheid and genocide are bad actually but the national bourgeoisie always ends up selling out and becoming comprador regimes while the Imperial powers still continue being the de facto rulers rather than de jure in a global capitalist system.
Only the international cooperation between the Proletariat of all nations can truly end colonialism and imperialism as a whole.
>>2526173spotted again, in the top right corner:
>>2526452 >>2526447Not really, changing a capitalist nation-state into a more nationalist and native friendly capitalist nation-state ain't exactly progress and they always come short in their goals of being truly independent. Yeah it's great that genocide, racial segregation and other abuses are no longer happening but as long as the same capitalist mode of production and global trade continue existing nothing will really change.
>>2526474debates about colonialism aside the period in which national liberation was historically progressive has clearly passed, you're right
>>2526474It is historically progressive in Marxist terms
>>2526466Algeria, Rhodesia, Cuba and South Africa did NOT have a capitalist system with a national bourgeoisie, wtf are you talking about?
The biggest danger to the movement are the intellectuals. It's a moot point to ask 'what is to be done' if the intellectual question is not adressed first. By intellectual I just mean someone who specializes in mental work.
If we are Leninists in any meaningful sense, then we know that the working class can only get to trade-union consiousness and that it needs and outside actor to link up the movement with communism. This actor historically speaking is usually the petty-bourgeois intellectual. But let us consider the question now in say the 'west'. Can you identify a (petty-)bourgeois intellectual, someone with enough free time on their hands to contribute theoretically and organizationally to the movement, someone who wrote the communist credo for our movement? No. But what you probably did imagine is the student intellectual a weak surrogate of the actual person, because a student is usually only a communist intellectual for a limited time (during the time of their studies before they get a good imperialist white collar job or kill themselves because of the worsening crisis)
There is 1) no actual communist intellectual worth their salt that can put into words what communist demands are and 2) there is absolutely no organic working class movement against capital (even if not (!) communist) that it can link up with. Talking about organization now is talking about a student communist movement with ambigious demands, a tragical kind of '68, without a semblance of an working class movement in the background.
Sproadic political terrorism, historical nihilism, a general spirit of collapse, yet the machine goes on. We desparately need a Plekahnov for the west, someone to elaborate Marxism to us. Considering Plekhanov spent a good time abroad to get in touch with Marxism, our Plekhanov will be some activist yet-to-be exiled to the PRC or DPRK while our Lenin is a Native American girl just finding out ICE kindnapped her brother and sent him to Aligator Alcatraz.
Just woke up from a nap, are we finally sizzling or we fizzle gang
>>2526477But it's not even that bro, Algeria and Cuba? Still grabbed by the balls by France and AmeriKKKa. South Africa and Zimbabwe? Still ruled by a majority white elite or comprador black bourgeoisie who answer to the Imperial powers and transnational conglomerates who still fill their pockets at the expense of the "former" colonies.
The sociopolitical structure and base remains the same, no real historical progress (either good or bad) has happened.
most nontent protests of all time award
idk why laura loomer is so worried about hamas rapes when clearly any hamas chad would have their cock shrink into oblivion upon the sight of such an ugly woman
>>2526461>>2526460Liberals really made me hate the word brunch. I’ll never forgive them for that.
>>2526487Libs cannot protest, they can only perform
I have seen rallies of football fans be more threatening than this cringe show
>>2526482what city do you think would be the best to network with other marxists in? ive been thinking chicago
>>2526492Probably Chicago, and even then still very difficult.
"The white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”"
Mlk, Birmingham letter
>>2526486Im not saying these countries have ended history
The point is they did not have a capitalist system before colonisation
Before colonisation, indigenous tribes lived there, perhaps not even having a ‘feudal’ system
Cubans today are europeans and africans
Jose Marti was a great revolutionary
Not a communist revolutionary by any means, but a revolutionary for he created the modern cuban state
>>2526487my thoughts exactly. the only tent I didn't see was the zionist flags, though. but even a Ukrainian flag:
>>2526461>>2526490shove it them with full
brunt.
>>2526486> The sociopolitical structure and base remains the same, no real historical progress (either good or bad) has happened.You are retarded if you think the sociopolitical structure has not changed and no historical progress has happened
The mere fact that a pregnant woman gives birth in a hospital with the supervision of doctors and nurses with a high degree of guarantee of the baby growing healthy rather than giving birth under a fucking tree with a 50-50 chance of the kid dying and her pussy rotting invalidates your moronic post
>>2526502So is historical progress defined by "when good things happen to people" of not? I thought I was a moralist and a lib for supposedly claiming this
>>2526396your local 'autonomous structures' are still going to be laced in settler-colonialism. The super structure as it exists is rooted in settler colonalism. Your group doing a land acknowledgement doesn't change that the state, the capitalist backed state, has millions of people living in reservations, nor does it change the resources being ripped apart on the daily to maintain that state. This is fundementally the biggest issue with anarchism of the individualist variety (byfar the most popular and espoused variety, as this variety is very easy for the capitalist state to co-opt). This individualist anarchism is not based in any real material theory, it's a vibes-based interjection that hyper centers the "individual", one doesn't need to think long and hard as to how well this belief system works with neoliberal imperialist capitalism.
Neoliberalism hit its full force with the Clinton era, Reagan slashed and burned the forests of 'social imperialist democracy', and Clinton built the came and build the chainlink fences, paved the parking lots over what was left. We should remember that our cultural frame of reference is a lot shorter than we imagine. Especially when we consider the pre-internet era, the narratives that were disseminated were culturally aligned with what continued to propagate the imperialist norms of the Amerikan capitalist empire. Consider the media control prior to the internet, every thing has to go through a publishing company, everything must be distributed via easily controlled platforms. We've seen how strongly traditional media firms have aligned with Israel, despite the overwhelming brutality of genocide commited against the Palestinians. We can view all media prior to the internet in these terms. We can know that these positions of power have long only allowed viewpoints that aligned with the imperialism, and with this lens we can now view the anarchist 'vibes' of the 90s, and how they are a perfect pairing with neoliberalism.
Consider that the 1956 'Hungarian Revolution' was a color revolution, (see:
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/openness-russia-eastern-europe/2017-05-10/hungary-1956-reviving-debate-over-us) But then consider that we only got comfirmation of this over 60 years later, after documents were declassified. Consider then the narratives created and painted by the powers that be during that time. Narratives get recreated, manipulated, and weaponized, and then those narratives become engrained in the consumer memory. This is the root of the psychic war. With the fall of the USSR it became ever more important for the capitalist class to cement its victory over the bastard child of communism that had governed over the USSR for the majority of it's existence. Anarchism then, became an easy grafting point for the recouperation to attach itself to. Anarchism had been mostly detached from it's labor roots, but there were whispers of a new era usering in, the IWW had emerged from a period of deep slumber, and while this is a deep simpification of the material circumstances, the anarchists of the PNW had gained a legitimacy within their often tempestuous allyship. The anarcho-syndicalists had waged a protacted war on capitalism over the course of the late 1800s, early 1900s. Capital had used the first red scare, centered primarily on anarchists (and their adjacent communist allies) to decapitate the ability for the IWW and other allied organizations to operate, mass deportations, assassinations, and other hard power tactics. By the 1990s, in line with neoliberal tactics of power construction, the methods of maintaining the status quo had switched to soft power, to cultural power, there is a reason so many neoliberalist policy makers have an interest in Gramsci.
Without a legitimate anti-imperialist set of principles, the conceptual basis for anarchist thought was subsumed into the counter-cultural currents of capitalism. We can see this in card games, table top games, the edgy comics of the 1990s. Take this card for example, "Anarchist Enforcer", from the 1992 iteration of Vampire the Masquerade's TCG Jyhad. The cultural base for anarchy was not it's labor roots, nor it's battles with capital, nor the direct actions against wall street, but instead the often politically ambient 'punk' aestethic. We see then the beginnings of the recouperation and thus reinterduction of anarchist thought into the cultural spectacle, and we can see then how anarchism was rapidly devolved into what can best be described as "Fuck bedtime!" with an anarchist A etched into the desk of an 8th grade classroom. This infantile strain of individualist anarchism was pushed by the powers that be both as a disarming tool and a means of recouperating potentual "true" (in the Houdinist sense that real counter culture must be inherently anti-imperialist) counterculture back into the status quo of capitalist imperialism.
It is thus then, that we must re-align our systems of belief towards a form of anarchy that seeks to abolish wage slavery and the imperialism that drives it. Hyper localist structures are a stop gap, a nessessary piece of infastructure, a means of resisting the wieght of the super structure. They cannot resolve the contraditions of imperialism, nor can they destroy the state that drives this imperialism. We must forge deeper alliances with those who see the greater picture. We must remind ourselves that our beliefs are constrained by the material conditions and propaganda esseminated by the capitalist power structure. our shared reality made manifest by those who seek to divide and destroy us. These labels are not the same as the principles that power them, we have seen how the capitalist can take our words, and we must remember that they cannot take our principles.
No peace with the beast, those who seek to behead this hydra are our allies, this is the truth, regardless of labelistic indentarian debates that are ultimately constrained by the very system we seek to destroy.
>>2526504? It is historically progressive in the sense that the material conditions and human organisation was elevated.
How do you not see that in the examples you mentioned?
>>2526504Historical progress is not ‘defined’ by good things happening to people, but one of its consequences is definitely that ‘gooder’ things happen to le people
stop smoking weed >>2526496Bourgeois revolutions were at their best when they fought against colonial powers and the aristocracy to implement capitalism and liberalism (meaning the OG French revolution and the American and African wars of independence of the 19th and early 20th century) but once capitalism became global, the last remnants of feudalism were wiped out and the Bolsheviks proved a communist revolution was possible even in backwards societies, natlib movements ceased to be progressive.
We agree on like 95% of things, it's just the timeline we disagree with.
>>2526465assumed the person making the dumb joke was the same anon arguing with you award
>>2526418they and you just think orange man bad and aren't proletarian
>>2526529>bolsheviks backward societiestsarist russia was still nowhere near as backwards as most of Africa and Asia at that time
how the hell can a bolshevik experience arise in Tanzania or Zambia of that time?!
You are a European chauvinist who does not feel the need to look at the conditions in Africa and Asia because they are not human to you, only your honkies are human
>>2526530he literally has a name tag you retard
>>2526535>he literally has a name tag you retardwho
>>2526535Yeah because there has definitely never been any communist revolutions in Africa and Asia and those countries are still perpetually stuck in the conditions they were in the early 20th century.
>HonkieI'm not white nor western nor a firstoid. Appeals to oppression Olympics don't work on me.
>>2526543you are spiritual honkoid
>>2526464I have very little opportunity to give my Marxist analysis of Watchmen's ending without edgelords and racist comic book fans going "ozy did le nothing wrong!" "Rorschach is based!".
>>2526539the spiritual belgian Orion
>>2526548oh i thought you were talking about the anon who made the ozymandias joke in the first place
I waste too much time on leftypol, my work is suffering
mods please permaban me(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>>2526558See you in Valhalla, brother.
>>2526567which Communist Party specifically?
>>2526060Start working on it friend :3
>>2526450the wanted poster is cute
>>2526509>your local 'autonomous structures' are still going to be laced in settler-colonialism. I know this is /usa/ but what about us who live outside the US or are from the periphery/global south?
We're always living among the detritus of the old world. We're confronted with power structures that emerged before we were born. Before we became aware of them. Capitalism did not emerge in a vacuum. Neither did agricultural civilization itself.
I think we should aim to live meaningful lives regardless, because without this there's only surviving (as an animal), or perpetually postponing action in favor of some spontaneous 'eschaton' that will save us all.
I think the issue with "anarchism" broadly is the same as with "leftism", "socialism" and "marxism-leninism" in general. If it appears detached from actual lived lives and labor roots it imo has a lot to do with how secularization and the abandonment of old religions and constant disappointment (at "progress", but also the failure for The Revolution itself to arrive) has led to "religion" infiltrating what are ostensibly 'secular' movements, institutions and structures.
Marxism becomes gospel instead of critique, Anarchists adopting a "gnostic" view of the world where everything "worldly" is inherently "evil", (mother) Nature as the new god, science as the new mysticism, endless scholastic theological debates (including about 'revisionism') that boil down to identifying who the heretics are and the ecstasy in denouncing them, the 'aestheticization of politics', living vicariously through idols or promoting them as the next coming of the Messiah. the manic veneration of martyrdom and saints, conspiracism (all the world's ills are down to a few parasitic elites instead of social structures and relations of production), and all these new gods serving as excuses for obscene enjoyment or distraction from existential angst and little else, etc.
Sometimes I wonder if it would've been better if "new religions", "spiritual movements" and their gurus, sex cults and new age woowoo were still as common the way it appeared to have been common back in the 60s and 70s. As a filter for all those craving a "religious" experience, thus allowing the "rest of us" to be "left alone".
I also find it sad state of affairs when socialism and anarchism is completely subsumed in pure negation. Including "anti-imperialism". As a form of secularized Manichaeism. At worst it denies the idea that we ourselves can create meaning. That we're the source of it. As if we're back in prehistoric times, before rudimentary language and 'culture' and the only think we can do is 'survive' the elements. It's bleak and fatalistic.
I know you get a lot of shit here from (some) people, but I like to see people making an effort in this world. And I'd encourage you to be wary of falling into the "trap" of pure negation, or subordinating the human condition to some (secular) god. I'm not nearly the oldest person who lurks and posts around here these days, but I've been around for a while, and before /leftypol/ existed. And have had a lot rough experiences. And I've seen a lot of people get completely burned out in their 'activism' because they take this religious, eschatological view of things. Or alternatively I've seen those I admired turn into blatantly grifting cynics simply leading the next 'cult' out of many.
I really recommend reading 'Desert', 'Now' by The Invisible Committee and "Blessed is The Flame", as well existentialists of the mid 20th century (Sartre, Beauvoir, Camus, etc).
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-deserthttps://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-invisible-committe-nowhttps://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/serafinski-blessed-is-the-flameI don't consider it gospel, and I have my critiques of some of the language used. But unless you've read them already I think you might find those works interesting.
>>2526580
CPUSAanon and loli-defenders are protected species here
>>2526580
not even remotely true.
>>2526514Historical progress is defined by the development of production and you should know this.
Primitive communism had very little development past small quantities of communally owned stone tools for thousands of years. Nobody was able to accumulate beyond that which was generally quickly consumed.
Slavery was marked by the beginning of accumulation which was a historically developmental act, and also which came at terrible price. But it was overwhelmingly powered by human muscle power and thus was very weak. Social relations obscured slaves producing for themselves.
Feudalism was marked by the development of more animal and simple mechanical labor: windmills, watermills, the development of wide scale metallurgy. Social relations were actually quite explicit in serfdom being partly producing for the lord, partly for themselves.
Capitalism involves the development of powerful machinery, the use of extensive use of non-living energy in the form of fossil fuels as well as the beginning of other forms of energy input, and the change from humans providing energy to do work to humans directing largely other forms of energy to production. Social relations obscure wage workers producing for the capitalist.
The idea of "progress" is continuing this process, towards some new form of end. Going through these periods and fueling them is what is progress here.
Of course this is not nearly as clear in microscopic details.
>>2526588>Wtf I thought "illegal alien" was just codeword for non-whiteit can serve as that depending on who you're talking to
>They're actually going against all immigrantsthere's a hierarchy of priority. occasionally yes slavs n shit get deported, but usually you know the ICE agents are on the prowl for hispanics.
>Also, could this escalate the growing tensions between ICE and the police?there's always been tension betwen local and federal law enforcement
>>2526590yeah and how does that contradict what I said?
>>2526588yes, it can happen to spiritual honkoids like you too
even if you are not in america
you never know
use a vpn just to be safe
>>2526596
>>2526591
>>2526589
stfu and take it to /siberia/
>>2526594The global bourgeoisie can hardly develop the forces of production nowadays, let alone the national porkies of 3rd world countries. Only Chinese central planning and State capitalism have shown significant developments in production and the accumulation of non-speculative capital.
>>2525990Control freak libs
>>2526589
i prefer shota
>>2526091Control freaks, again
>>2526599so we agree in the end
have a great Sunday, Belgian friend
>>2526574>>2526577TBQH: The No Kings protests are also teaching people that getting outside and getting with other people in a free event to just say you hate the government while the government makes blatant lies about how you're evil for it, actually feels great, is enjoyable, and directly creates an us-vs-them against the government, as well as exposes people to opportunities to be given radical literature in a positive environment. This is pretty straightforwardly creating operant conditioning.
>>2526610Democrat conditioning is liberal poison
>>2526612Okay this is pretty based
>>2526585Really killer response, a lot to digest, thanks anon
>>2526612This is too subtle they should just post screencaps of the training data used by Meta AI telling it to molest kids.
>>2526612wtf they stole my idea
based tho
>>2526325>ok anon. you win. when anon A mocked the libs in the dinosaur costumes and anon B mocked anon A for being a loser on an imageboard who does nothing IRL in real life, it was because of everything you said that nobody else said was true. anon B was secretly a liberal who thinks orange man is fascist and not neoliberal. it was because anon B never had any problem with capitalism before 2016. everything you said is true. you are 100% correct. we will shut the fuck up. thank you for your very smart and based reeducation.>>2526338><libs IRL do something soy><anon A mock them for being soy><anon B mock anon A for being imageboard loser who does nothing but own the libs with smuggy chanlord meme text><anon C mocks anon B for secretly being a lib who thinks orange man is literally hitler and didn't hate capitalism before 2016 even though nobody said that><anon D mocks anon C for not leveling that criticism at both anon A and B since both of them used the word fascistDamn, sounds like I missed an exciting day on leftypol.
Well I went, it was the same old same old.
>>2526612>>2526635I hope one day to live to see every AI company investor and employee hanged
>>2526661Still buys into the AI is totally taking over the jobs right now guys and superintelligent AI is just around the corner hype just from the other end. AI doomerism is the worst product of AI hype at least where we're at currently
I love ai so much
Ya'll think that Kamal protestor from a couple of days ago went to No Kings protest. Lol. I'd put $50 on it she didnt.
>>2526662Honestly yeah, it's way overhyped. At this point in time it can't automate anything more complex than a call center and Youtube Kids content farms. You can't make a multibillion dollar empire out of ERP chatbots and brainrot memes, the bubble is gonna burst HARD.
>>2526668>more complex than a call centerit can't even do that right tbh if you've ever dealt w customer service ai reps. ai is bottlenecked due to hardware
>>2526671No because Im not trying to get sent to Sudan or El Salvador. Also this isn't about me.
>>2526668The sad thing is that this mountain of garbage gets lumped in with actual machine learning models that have been incredibly useful for researchers in STEM.
And, while I could be proven wrong, the consistent improvement seems to have stopped and it's not looking optimistic for the boosters who promise exponential growth. Sadly even a bubble burst would not take us back to the days before, though. I cannot stand normalfags saying I asked chatgpt or taking doomsday scenarios as a given. (But to be honest I've already resigned myself to a life of joylessness even before 2020 or 2022 and this is just one aspect of it. Every day I dream about finally catching the bus.)
So what now, now that the dust has settled and No Kings was an abject failure?
>>2526699what did anyone expect? I don't know why this board never bothers organizing anything ourselves and just endlessly criticize libs for doing lib shit.
I am once again e-begging, if someone could hook me up with a 20 dollar gift card I can get food for myself and my dog and that would be extremely clutch
You can use the email
[email protected]https://www.amazon.com/Uber-Eats-Gift-Card-Delivery/dp/B079YNCBX2>>2526699Can't be a failure when there weren't even any goals or objectives in the first place. It was a glorified parade/flash mob dance but hopefully at least it helped some non-libtard orgs do some outreach.
>>2526707>>2526700So basically it worse than nothing, all these retarded libs got any class consciousness out of their system by screaming at the Trump tower and doing HO HO chants. We're back at square one but fascism is accelerating. I want off this fucking wild ride
>>2526711you do not build class consciousness by sitting at home and posting on the internet
Comrade Evan Reif gave you the answer but you do not want to listen.
>>2526723Any fps other than Counter Strike is counter revolutionary and treatlerite.
>>2526309>t. friend of Sakai's nephewI refused to believe it's not a collective persona of glowies.
>>2526712You don't build it by being a lib either retard
>>2526702Alternatively you can cash app $11 dollars to $JodieWodie so that I can buy a pizza and split that with myself and my dog
>>2526738if libs don't build class consciousness then they don't lose any by going to protests
>>2526739Be honest
You’re a pimp, right?
>>2526744So, is ICE also not being paid off?
>>2526756Pimp wouldn't be pathetically begging money every other day here.
>>2526727Counter Strike and CoD: WaW Nazi zombies.
You should all be paying more attention to what's happening in Ecuador now where there's a new, neo-liberal fascism being crafted. This could be the future for not just America but the world
>>2526775How easy would it be to bang women like this? It might easier than banging a femcel I would imagine.
>>2526777Can you just not be weird and creepy? What just made you feel just now we wanted to hear from the depths of your pornified brain?
>>2526776what is new about ecuador's authoritarian right wing president that other rightoid presidents in latinx history haven't done
>>2526781You're right. She's probably Chad only anyways. Maybe she's a lesbian
>>2526781based feminist anon chopping down lust posters
>>2526293>Calling black people "Cossacks" 100 years later we see the same settler Zionist propaganda: "Palestinians are going around with axes to kill innocent white workers. It would be DISASTER to the Palestinian people if they did this or that"
>>2526781there are no women on this site anon you dont have to white knight this hard it's kinda embarrassing ngl
>>2526789He's basically neo-Pinochet, an explicitly neoliberal dictator who rules through force with the military.
>>2526585>Anarchists adopting a "gnostic" view of the world where everything "worldly" is inherently "evil"Chinese socialism filled with world with microplastics
https://www.greenhousegrower.com/technology/how-pollination-drones-are-emerging-as-alternatives-to-bees/>>2526509>Neoliberalism hit its full force with the Clinton era, Reagan Jimmy Carter was the first scolding austerity president like Biden
>>2526798>there are no women on this site anon you dont have to white knight this hard it's kinda embarrassing nglYou don't have to tell us everything you jack off too.
>>2526801why not though? what's the harm?
>>2526801Yet you are telling by using that flag
>>2526542>The United States and the other guarantors remain resolute in our commitment to ensuring the safety of civilians, maintaining calm on the ground, and advancing peace and prosperity for the people of Gaza and the region as a whole.Does anyone actually believe this even for a second?
>>2526809People are just going through the motions, noone is actually listening and believing anyone since everyone already knows what to do, or rather everyone is habituated to do things that maintain and continue this caputalism thing
>>2526809Too many people do not understand that contemporary Zionism = clerical fascism. They don't realize that fascists have no souls and will lie and cheat and destroy everything in their unrelenting quest to kill/enslave 90+% of the world.
>>2526777if you ever see a woman that looks like she works middle management at one of these protests just walk up to her and ask if she wants to donate to an animal charity and mention you volunteer for democrats and how sad you are that coconut lost but "as sad as I am as a white man I feel even more guilt over the bipoc's and women that are suffering even more under Trump" or some other counter-reactionary bullshit.
These women are actual NPC's so don't feel bad manipulating them.
>>2526812they're humans who have been brainwashed to support evil, not toys
>>2526789>latinx Shut the fuck up liberal
>>2526813i mean if youre genuinely interested in her you can try to pivot into radicalizing her but it probably wont work.
>>2526802You wouldn't even talk to her. Why do we need to hear your fantasies?
>>2526781>>2526801>>2526820Look at this nietzschean you know what engaging in ressentimen.
>>2526832This is what the future dystopian cyberpunk americans are going to look like.
>>2526798>there are no women on this site anonwomen exist on imageboards, they just don't talk about being women while in a place like this for obvious reasons.
>>2526823Men will do anything but go to therapy.
>>2526861i'm convinced. vote cuomo
>>2526861>"But his tweets!" cried the sexpest>>2526863Therapy is largely a waste of time, at least under capitalism.
I love the way New Yorkers talk.
>>2526814Are we still doing this faggot shit? "Oh there is a backlash against woke" STFU bitchass. I say latinx and I say it with a hard-x.
>>2526787Keep in my ind Barron Trump is being literally groomed by BAPists.
>>2526882on behalf of the latinx (pronounced latinks) i give you the latinx pass
>>2526884I'll keep it in your ind.
>>2526787Bro is going to end up in jail for to make an example out of him
>>2526611yeah they co opt everything but you should still go out and talk to people
>>2526867Sliwa is such an interesting and funny dude. I don't "love" him would never support him but as far as "populist" republicans in funny red hats go I like him way more than Trump.
Why doesnt hasan run for something instead of drunk driving and playing dress up
>>2526902Hasan is not electable in the US dude be fr
>>2526867this guy is almost certainly a piece of shit but fair answer
>>2527012tbqh i appreciate a guy telling that kind of extremely cynical politics to just fuck off,
>>2526861Lmao i love the cheap actors they got. This is kino.
>>2526865>Therapy is largely a waste of time, at least under capitalism.lol trvth nvke
>>2526861Cuomo actually thinks it's just about social media not policies lmao
>>2527035>Major US soft-drink and snack-food corporations are waging a coordinated campaign that aims to pit Donald Trump’s Maga faithful against Robert F Kennedy Jr’s Make America Healthy Again movement, a Guardian investigation in partnership with environmental watchdog Fieldnotes has found. Their goal is to stymie the Maha-led effort to curb Americans’ consumption of soda and ultra-processed foods.lol and people think Porky is united and organized
>>2527040They are, against you.
>>2527042not as organized as they could be if they prioritized anything other than profit
>>2526867>>2526899>>2527031i think he mostly just plays up the stereotypical italian-american thing for his media image but there are plenty of italian-americans who act similarly typical like unironic sopranos characters
>>2526588slavs are only considered probationary whites in america
>>2527051i mean he's been doing it for like 50 years now, i'm pretty sure he really is just like this
>>2526588"Race" is literally made up pseudoscience so "white" can be whatever they say it does. But really I think they care more about deporting those of low perceived status, and if they happen to be "white" or not, it's not necessarily the main issue as opposed to the money/connections they possess. Remember, Trump's coalition is a broad front of neo-fascists (not necessarily Nazis), neo-Nazis, clerical fascists, techno-fascists, boring ultranationalist elitists, and others.
>>2527054yeah, i think it's partially an act for him just like many others, but it's not an obvious act that theyre always doing voluntarily, but just cuz they think thats how they have to to cofnorm to the stereotype
honkoid status?
>>2527135He mixed ip Petro and Uribe they kinda look similar
>>2527059this is a reasonable thing to assume but ive grown up around another hub of northeast US italian americans and even tho the majority in the country have fully assimilated like all the other formerly "ethnic whites", there are absolutely places with strongholds of multi generational basically unintegrated italians. idk the extent of it in NYC but it is a real thing elsewhere, its not just funny sopranos meme. and iirc part of the theme of sopranos is the irony that the big mob guys from those ethnic strongholds end up getting nicer places in the suburbs where theyre pressured to WASPify
>>2527183It is le ressentiment
>>2527184it just seems like blind conformism to me
people will watch vidrel and clap and cheer as an innocent person is arrested. dare to challenge pig fascist cops or corrupt judges and you'll be killed by the mob long before any limb of the state.
>>2527183The problem with SovCits is that their worldview begins and ends with a form of magical thinking. Essentially they think there are certain liberties that they are entitled to that they can invoke whenever they like by a clever interpretation of written law from hundreds of years ago that supposedly nullifies whatever they're being charged with, for example they think that by specifying they're "traveling" not "driving" they're allowed to drive a car without a license, or that the United States is actually a corporation that has no juristiction over you if you only refer to your name in a very special way like "John: Smith" or "John of the house Smith". The reality is that even if that was the way the law worked (and it doesn't) they're utterly naive in thinking that merely by invoking it they can deprive the cops and judges of any and all power. The whole concept is a scam that peddles to individualists this One Weird Trick to get the cops to let you go when they catch you cooking meth that somehow completely nullifies the fact that they have the force of the state behind them and you do not.
>>2527183>>2527188it's a completely unserious movement that people find tiresome because it simply appears as complete entitlement to be above the law. They don't give a damn that the law is tyrannical as long as it doesn't apply to them, personally.
>>2527195but why are they hated so much? that is the question.
you can say theyre idiotic or naive, but why are we supposed to be happy when theyre tortured by the state?
>>2527199you have it backwards
its cops and judges that think the law doesnt apply to them, yet theres no big controversy there
>>2527206laws are a reflection of power, in capitalism power comes from capital, cops and judges serve capital, so technically they don't apply to them
>>2527206Nobody likes them because they are nitpicky, argumentative, and untethered from reality.
There are people who just outright say "fuck the law, fuck the fascist pigs" who aren't treated with the same kind of contempt, because sovcit is obviously petty bourgeois ultra-individualism, an almost genuinely solipsistic worldview.
>>2527212>theyre argumentativeyes, against an authoritarian regime that tramples over rights by the autocracy of a militarized police force. dont agree with a cop? be careful he doesnt murder you, then get away with it.
>There are people who just outright say "fuck the lawno, they are adhering to common law, not the law of corporations which demand consent for authority.
>>2527183same is the case for communists and leftists broadly downplay mass surveillance. "you can't expect people to learn how to use new technology" is fair when it comes to every day people, but people wanting to be involved in serious political organizing in a time when we are beginning to see the criminalization of any kind of dissent is a weak argument.
>>2527221if i was in charge i would destroy all public security cameras
>>2527218>leftypol defending sovcitsare you fucking kidding me
I am not trying to fedpost or encourage illegal behavior, but I hate that so many allegedly "progressive" public figures are caving in to liberal sensibilities, doubly so when it is in fact the case that you will get smeared as a dirty commie who wants to do political violence either way.
>>2527203Mostly just because they're some of the most obnoxious and annoying people you will ever meet in your life who are completely hostile to any materialist analysis
>>2526895Liberals are against the people. liberals are not people.
>>2526610>The No Kings protests are also teaching people that getting outside and getting with other people in a free event to just say you hate the government while the government makes blatant lies about how you're evil for it, actually feels great, is enjoyable, and directly creates an us-vs-them against the governmentThe federal workers—the government—are dancing with liberals as well. The true dynamic is king drump and everyone else on the planet.
>as well as exposes people to opportunities to be given radical literature in a positive environment. This is pretty straightforwardly creating operant conditioning.To be a liberal dog is bad. The liberals come out on weekend as to not hurt a capitalist. The liberals stand in empty square killing zone to not halt economic. These liberals' funding came from somewhere. The billionaires pull their strings.
>>2527218Again, you asked why people dislike them: it's because they're anti-social and come off as reckless and unconcerned for the safety of others. People are well aware that driving is dangerous, and most sovcit vids are of them doing stupid things with their car. SovCit is blatantly opportunistic, anti-social individualism. There is no sovcit collective action, there is no movement. They reek of social predation and decay.
>no, they are adhering to common law, not the law of corporations which demand consent for authority.lol
>>2527215>king trump shits on americanot sure this is the best way to put it
>>2527135based retard finally puts an end to Plan Colombia
>>2527218they're just pathetic, reactionary, individualist retards, why would anyone have sympathy for them is beyond me
>>2527135does he intend to bomb all of latin america into submission, with the same flimsy pretext of war on drugs?
>>2527261When is he getting caught with some indecent images of children?
Been out of the loop for while, what's /leftypol/'s take on Hasan's shock collar thing? I saw compilations on Twitter, Israeli media reporting about, and I gotta be honest those clips are bizarre
>>2527270I find the allegations shocking. ⚡️⚡️⚡️🐶🐶🐶
>>2527270Kinda shitty way to treat a dog but who cares there are people in ice detention wishing they had as good as that dog
>>2526867Based conservative communist Sliwa.
Laura loomer would be in prison long ago in many places for the stuff she post
>>2527276So is #RussiaGate real or not?
Hard not to believe in a connection between MIGA and RuSSia after all the evidence.
>>2527135Bro is going to begin
OPERATION GOLDEN SHOW– CIRCLELone burgerians will be able to meet
GORGEOUS CULOMBIANS NEAR THEIR AREA It really feels like collapse. The gaudy wealth of the newly rich, the hubris, the arrogance.
I see that the US libs are offering to the US population nothing except that they are not trump.
>>2527276after they sized nexperia? yeah, sure they are not sharing more intel.
people will buy this crap.
>>2526867the guy sounds like robert de niro playing some gangster
>>2527017Is he lobbing his shit on protestors?
>>2527017>>2527201>>2527215Why don't we make one of these AI slop videos that secretly promotes communism then get him to repost it?
>>2527287Russiagate was never real but only the republicucks seem to realize a certain level of dialogue with Russia is necessary especially if they wanna end the war and naturally Europe hates that cuz they want to join the war against Russia
>>2527314he has a meme team on payroll lol
>>2527309
why do you post reddit screenshots every day? why do you even go on that subreddit?
>>2527326report them as isg spam
>>2526867Why doesn't Cuomo just kill the competition?
>>2527135He'll get away with this won't he
>>2527344Not if they continue using ChatGPT to make invasion plans
>>2527355it's probably a benign tumor
>>2527364idiot on idiot violence
>>2527270It is a nothingburger to stir controversy.
Without soc dems commies are maybe 1% of the population. Everyone can just ignore everything you want. If the country polarizes even more and libs shift left you will be like our groypers. Without us you have 0 power.
>>25273801% of US population is 3.5 million. There are definitely NOT that many communists in the USA. Maybe there's 3000. 30k is already an exaggerated maximum.
>>2527388And all the real communists post on leftypol so revolution is impossible we have to wait for China to build productive forces yadda yadda yadda
>>2527392>we have to wait for China to build productive forcesyou have it backwards. you shouldn't wait on china but have your own revolution rather than treating it as yet another job outsourced to china.
Rather than arguing over whether China is really socialist or not you should be competing with China to build a form of socialism superior to theirs. But you'd rather a race to the bottom where you cry about them being more capitalist than you.
If AES countries really exist, they are in a holding pattern while they wait for you to overthrow your own bourgeoisie in the imperial core. The required productive forces for defense of the revolution is always relative to the external forces that seek to overthrow it. A self-described communist party governs over China in an alleged transition from state capitalism to socialism to communism, but that transition if it is real, will be crippled unless other countries have their own revolutions, because China is just 1 country in a global capitalist system. China will not violate your country's sovereignty to bring you socialism because it has strategically embraced non-interventionist foreign policy in defense of its own past revolution, and besides that, socialism is unlikely to be embraced by any given country if it is seen as a 5th column for some foreign power. It is up to the American proletariat to overthrow their own bourgeoisie. You cannot put that burden on the shoulders of proles in other countries. That is not their job. They might provide socialist Americans strategic aid once a real movement is off the ground, but as of yet there is no such militant mass movement that can claim legitimacy at a national scale.
please do not mischaracterize what I am saying or try to make the argument about whether China is socialist or not, the point is you have to make your own country's "socialism" more "truly socialist" than theirs. You have to make it a race to the top and not a race to the bottom. And that starts by overthrowing your own bourgeoisie which is physically close to you, rather than lamenting China not living up to your vision >>2527270Why get a dog if you are just going to use it as a prop?
>>2527374you can actually, you know, use their texts and contemporary support to see if aligns with their ideology.
what matter more is the political effects of what is supported realy entails.
>>2526777why would you want to? no i dont think you should only have sex with people who you Really Connect With or whatever but it is not a pleasant experience to have sex with people you dont even like being around. why the fuck would it be, if i dont even like being around someone why would i enjoy being that close to them.
im sure it happens fairly frequently and is an exciting novelty to have sexual chemistry with someone you otherwise dislike. but that should at best be circumstantial and i doubt it ever ends well. i think that this hard partition people make (presumably due to media poisoning and undersocialization) between "someone i want to have sex with" and "someone i'd enjoy spending time with" is responsible for a lot of the chronic sexless loneliness and dissatisfaction. this isnt some puritanism, sex is also a way to get to know somebody and can be a good way despite real risks. but learning you dont like somebody after fucking around for a while is an entirely different thing than seeing that you would dislike someone and trying to pursue them anyway to fuck because theyre hot
>>2527270When I was homeless the only thing that prevented me from offing myself was my care and responsibility for the dog I had.
I think Hasan is a hollywood hills mansion dwelling faggot grifter, and now hes a hollywood hills mansion dwelling faggot that likes abusing a dog because it moved at an inconvenient time for him.
>>2527408Until America has its own real DOTP, The conversation in /usapol/ should always be what the American proletariat needs to do to stop their own bourgeoisie, rather than foreign policy intrigue. Foreign policy for the proletariat begins when they have seized power at the national level.
>>2527413>until america has it's own real dotplmao, they are still fighting over the REAL leftist ideology, world is gonna end before the Trve left exist.
>>2527413I was just saying that’s a general thing they should do. Frankly I don’t know what to do as an American.
>>2527401I was making a joke based on all the people who like to basically advocate a strategy of doing nothing because China is apparently winning at everything just by existing and we just need to suck it up and measure the success of socialism by China's GDP and whatnot. This is not to say I'm anti-China mind you, just that I'm tired of the constant doomerism and "lol there's no proletariat in America stfu treaterite" attitude that prevails this board every time someone ever talks about doing something. Either that or it's Felix starting from a reasonable position and turning it into an unhinged rant that turns everyone off.
Point being, we shouldn't act like a victory for the revolutionary left is impossible in America. It may not come as a 1:1 comparison of the October Revolution because the material conditions are fundamentally different, but it is possible and the first step towards achieving this is actually wanting to in the first place.
>Houdini literally begging for food to feed his dog while talking about revolutionary theory
>Hasan literally abusing his dog while begging for you to vote Democrat
>>2527270all ecelebs are shitty people until proven otherwise
>>2527417>I was making a joke based on all the people who like to basically advocate a strategy of doing nothing because China is apparently winning at everything just by existing and we just need to suck it up and measure the success of socialism by China's GDP and whatnotthen we are in agreement. the point isn't to sit by and gamble on their success/failure but to do our own thing on our own side of the planet. they only become relevant to us once we actually have power on a national level.
>>2527420without strong a strong organized group to capure the rapid changes in society all it means its gonna be captured by reactionaries and unorganized ones like hood anarchist and libertarians, groups only effective at mutual aid.
>>2527426>hood anarchist lol just use the n word dude
>>2527355critical support to the brain cancer.
>>2527364Birrion is probably closer to be right, than the DSA operative, though Lenin would have never rejected electoralism, always following the most progressive path.
>>2527429uygha anarchists in paris only exist on their small groups.
>>2527270yeah it's shity, but i literally don't care
if people think shock collars are cruel, then why sell them in the first place? ban them from ever being made
>>2527439ive used one before but to walk my dog that was strong as hell and regularly tried to attack small dogs, tore one up almost to death once and regularly killed groundhogs and squirrels etc. very sweet to people, not an "aggressive breed", just a hunter i guess and a tough dog so a leash wasnt enough assurance.
i think its fair to say thats a little different from a twitch streamer shocking his indoor dog to keep it on camera for his audience. idgaf about the /isg/ shit but as far as its a broader conversation i dont buy the idea that it is necessarily animal cruelty to use something painful to control your dog it just really depends on the circumstances. keeping them on camera for your twitch audience seems like an example of petty unnecessary cruelty. the same petty bourgeois behavior as keeping a dog locked in a cage for days being fed by your servants and only taking it out to show off to society people or whatever
>>2527270i literally do not care because shock collars are available on amazon. if capitalists really opposed shock collars why are they selling them?
>>2527456Hammers are also available on Amazon and therefore are not weapons
>>2527452too manly for a vootblooer, but nice OC
>>2527458please explain what is the intended use of a shock collar
>>2527451Let’s keep in mind here that his dog leaves the camera all the time. It moves and readjusts itself. It stays on its bed often, as indoor dogs do. We’re just denying dog leaves the scene or moves around as part of what is a pretty elaborate story to explain a dog yelping randomly that basically relies on a much lager construction that are not questioned or seriously thought about critically.
I think the coordination of this campaign is pretty obvious and it’s done in the defense of genocide and fascism. Like straight up. If you want to turn off your critical faculties and concede to a popular narrative not because it’s the most reasonable one, but because it’s the one using the most emotive and aggressive rhetoric and flooding your screen constantly, you can.
These coordinated smear and pressure campaigns will continue to expand and move targets as one falls. You’ll note that far right is immune to these attacks. They can engage in clear, gleeful and open brutality and cruelty to animals and human beings alike, and they win.
>>2527460Bdsm with human partners
>>2527424I know it's been said before but I think it's worth repeating that if the revolutionary left is to succeed in America, whatever that will look like in the end, a good starting point is organizing around public libraries. Beyond them simply being hubs of information and community centers as is, they also make a good headquarters for organizing community defense programs and anti-ICE action, librarians tend to be sympathetic towards left wing causes more often than not and framing it as defending immigrants and multicultural society will make them even more likely to get on board with whatever group you have. It's a good starting point towards ultimately organizing militant cadres or whatever you want to call them
>>2527374I'm in this picture
>>2527466>libraries>in a post literate societyThis is like trying to organize Milkmen or the local blacksmith
>>2527462But he's a streamer! And he makes money! But most importantly HE HURT A DOG!!!!! Something has to be done!
>>2527461Good, may they all die.
>>2527470Libraries are as much community centers as they are repositories for books, if not moreso these days thanks to increased focus on digital resources. Combine that with shit like makerspaces that tend to have 3D printing technology and you've got yourself a little base of operations just waiting to be used
>>2527481The police are just gonna use the homeless as an excuse to tear them down
>>2527451>i think its fair to say thats a little different from a twitch streamer shocking his indoor dog to keep it on camera for his audience.What evidence even is there of that besides wild accusations? People keep saying that in this thread but what proof is there besides the dog being visible on stream and this supposed "incident"?
>>2527482America might have slidden pretty firmly under neo-fascism but we've still got a ways to go before regime thugs can just burn down libraries, and they dont have the popular support to try that. Right now they're limited towards trying to intimidate libraries to self-censor, which sometimes works but when it doesn't the government doesn't have much recourse. They've already cut funding to rural libraries as it is
>>2527484This dude is an Indian who runs this and another one called dogs lol
https://vancouversun.com/news/ottawa-man-ai-bot-magaMeet the 24-year-old Ottawa software engineer who runs a MAGA bot
Saihajpreet Singh's bots are waging an online battle against progressive politicians in the U.S.
>>2527492why is it always indians
>>2527488They don’t need public support, they can just do it, who’s gonna shoot them for trying?
>>2527502If they truly didn't need public support they would have done it on day one
Why does the pro Palestine left still fall for the holocaust guilt trip knowing it is used against their interests?
>>2527504They also purged most competent state agents so who knows
>>2527499A lot of Asian immigrants/descendants are hardcore cuckservative because they had enough privilege (resources) to move over and start again. Of course not all of them are like that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kshama_Sawant >>2527374the only character i care about the poltical leanings of would probably be sonichu tbh
>>2527484it doesn't sound like leftypol because this simultaneously is trying to be "pro-sankara" and "anti-tankie". it's way too incoherent.
>>2527364This shit is like church to some of y'all mfs
>>2527535i think only ex-religious people should be allowed in leftist parties because they have experience with identifying religious thinking and dogmatic behaviors
Didn't even know there were protests yesterday until I saw Trump post about it this morning using that AI generated video of him shitting on them.
Streisand effect type shit. Literally.
>>2527539>only ex-religious people […] have experience with identifying religious thinking and dogmatic behaviorsreward the key leadership positions to people who used to fall for bullshit instead of people who never fell for bullshit in the first place? what could go wrong?
>>2527547>reward the key leadership positions to people who used to fall for bullshit instead of people who never fell for bullshit in the first place? what could go wrong?t. wasn't raised by christian parents and thinks he's a genius for it
>>2527549
Posting that publicly makes you a fed agitator
>>2527548Trve, but it's a hyper-cuckservative problem more than just a religious problem. Hindus and Muslims have higher retention rates than Christians because the cultures behind them are even more brainwashed and threatened with violence if you go against them. The religion problem is much deeper than "bro ur so dumb if u believe lmoa" that smug libs would have you think.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/06/26/globally-1-in-10-adults-under-55-have-left-their-childhood-religion/ >>2527545Oh yeah but this also just goes to show how dire the situation is in the USA.
Unless tomorrow someone died on any side at any protest, I doubt anyone realistically gives a shit, everyone is busy being indoors doing their own shit to care.
>>2527549
Practice what you preach
if you guys don't stop messing around I'm finna synthesize marxism with american revolutionary thought
>>2527558Close enough, welcome back Earl Browder
>>2527560
Lenin was a fed
Does anyone listen to Mike Duncan's revolutions podcast? His series on the Russian revolution is so fucking tight. Great marxist analysis too
All theoretical anti-treatlerites are practicing treatlerites.
>>2527560
Practice what you preach
>>2527560
Lenin wrote these things in exile. They worked outside of the country, and struck only when the state was weak enough (way beyond what it currently is), and they had thoroughly developed enough networks and infrastructure,
>>2527565Link the free, moron
>>2527565apparently he started it again and wrote about a fictional martian revolution or something
>>2527573not if you're rood
>>2527364Lenin would destroy zohran. Lenin exposed imperialist democrats
>>2527565Also speaking of the religoid thing, always trying to extrapolate some contrived wisdoms from some parables from some far removed time and place from whence you live.
>Ohhh well when the ancient Israelites Bolsheviks were fighting against the phillistines WhitesWhat does that shit have to do with anything?
>>2527578
Proven by what? Where is your proof?
>>2527578
2, 2 and 4 are all social concepts that don’t reflect reality
>>2527577lol id listen to it
>>2527578
States using the Leninist vanguardism model only ever achieved state capitalism at best, not socialism.
>>2527570And you can talk about the ANC, because that was in a first world settler colonial nation, but other new left groups in the core were abject failures and just ended up killing comrades and innocents. Apartheid South Africa isn't quite an analog because the US does not have an apartheid, quite the opposite. Nonetheless, institutional racism is alive and well. Conditions all in all were vastly different, and necessitated extreme action. Right now we have to be tapped into the general vibe and not be too far ahead or we'll come off like unhinged freaks. That doesn't mean capitulate, but talking about this stuff irl in any great detail is not going to go well, people are going to think you are a fed. I'm not saying I don't want things to accelerate mind you, but the masses don't support us yet, and we are marginal. Legal, above-ground organizing should be used to the fullest extent until it is outright criminalized.
If only we can LARP harder as Stalin and Lenin we can surpass both Stalin and Lenin.
>>2527588better than achieving literally nothing like the west lol
>>2527549
>Periodic reminder that if you're not mixing legal and illegal tactics you're objectively not a Communist
Good point but incomplete. That's a bare minimum. It takes quite a bit more than just that to be a communist. plenty of reactionaries mix legal and illegal tactics, but it doesn't make them communist.
but anyway "legality" is a weird thing to focus on because all political groups, whether they have power or not, mix legal and illegal tactics in their quest to get power, or keep power. just like they mix ideologically pure tactics with ideological questionable tactics, in order to remain unpredictable.
>>2527578
marxism is timeless but I always thought 'leninism' to mean the justification for why Russia jumping past capitalism and straight to the socialism stage, which was correct to do, but doesn't apply to our modern situation
>>2527582>referencing successful anti-capitalist struggles from the current era of history is the same as referencing iron age mythologyare you sure?
>>2527582I feel this way sometimes w/r/t to my org. We have motion, but it's mostly with existing communists in our area of operation, and a lot of the shit is just appealing to them.
>>2527598
you sound like you are projecting. that's cool though
>>2527588>States using the Leninist vanguardism model only ever achieved state capitalism at best, not socialism.
<Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat.Karl Marx, Critique of the Gotha Programme, 1875
<Will it be possible for private property to be abolished at one stroke? No, no more than existing forces of production can at one stroke be multiplied to the extent necessary for the creation of a communal society. In all probability, the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually and will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity. Friedrich Engels, Principles of Communism, 1847
< The capitalism that we have permitted is essential. If it is ugly and bad, we shall be able to rectify it, because power is in our hands and we have nothing to fear. The controversies over state capitalism that have been raging in our literature up to now could at best be included in textbooks on history. As regards state capitalism, we ought to know what should be the slogan for agitation and propaganda, what must be explained, what we must get everyone to understand practically. And that is that the state capitalism that we have now is not the state capitalism that the Germans wrote about. It is capitalism that we ourselves have permitted. Is that true or not? Everybody knows that it is true!At a congress of Communists we passed a decision that state capitalism would be permitted by the proletarian state, and we are the state. If we did wrong we are to blame and it is no use shifting the blame to somebody else! We must learn, we must see to it that in a proletarian country state capitalism cannot and does not go beyond the framework and conditions delineated for it by the proletariat, beyond conditions that benefit the proletariat. Lenin, Eleventh Congress Of The R.C.P.(B.), March 1922
Communists after seizing power don't change everything overnight. The whole reason for having a revolution is to then change society in a way that won't get cockblocked by a bourgeois dictatorship. It's not "revolution vs. reform" it's "revolution followed by communist-driven reform" vs. "liberal-driven reform without communist revolution."
>>2527598
you should chill, I am not disagreeing with you but you are just really zealous about it and it's turning me off and I've been a communist my whole life. you sound like you recently converted, which is good
>>2527595>are you sure?1917 is closer to 1850 than 2025 not to mention the exponential nature of historical, technological, and all other forms of development. Yeah I'm sure. Not to mention that China and Russia were backwards feudal societies FOR THEIR TIME and that no such revolutions ever succeeded in the developed nations of that time. It's just absurd on so many reasons on the face of it. If 1917 Russia can work in 2025 America, why couldn't it work in 1910s-20s America or any developed country in Europe?
>>2527609Except they didn't achieve DoTP, just a dictatorship of the bureaucracy, because their proletariat had/have little real power just like under any other capitalist state. Asking a vanguardist state using an authoritarian model to willingly wither itself away is the problem, because why would anyone willingly give up power without a clear incentive?
>>2527461I wonder what the “mom and pop” landlords would do if they could break up the big corpo landowners
leftism in first world countries failed because their proletariats were bought off with social democracy. therefore leftism can succeed GIVEN that the bourgeoisie refuses to compromise again with social democracy
>>2527620it was a dotp because the red army was loyal to the party, not the state, just like the PRC today
>>2527620>bureaucracynot a class, try again
>>2527623that just means the party was the state
>>2527622>leftism in first world countries failed because their proletariats were bought off with social democracy. therefore leftism can succeed GIVEN that the bourgeoisie refuses to compromise again with social democracySocialist revolutions have only ever succeeded in failed states(and then they very often don't even succeed in failed states, why aren't the PFLP leading Palestine?) You guys take a fluke of history that has proven to be unrepeatable and less and less likely as a model to follow. That's your problem.
>>2527625For all intents and purposes the party was the state, but there were still non-party elements of the state that existed and didn't command loyalty from the red army
>>2527620your critique might have an element of truth to it but it ignores the conditions under which the USSR was born, lived, died, and what they were dealing with:
1. they were born in massive poverty from the corpse of a semi-feudal tsarist theocracy
2. they were born into a world war
3. they immediately set to work ending that war on unfavorable terms
4. they were immediately plunged into a civil war
5. this civil war saw them invaded by 14 capitalist countries who sought to kill socialism in the cradle
6. they had to spend the entire interwar period rapidly industrializing
7. they had to deal with a literal attempted genocide against their people commited by the nazis
8. after sacrificing more lives to defeat fascism than any other country they had to reject the marshall plan to retain economic sovereignty and avoid getting economically couped through structural adjustment programs
9. while they tried to heal from WW2 without economic assistance, the USA built up an iron curtain through NATO and then blamed them for said iron curtain.
10. by the time they got a warsaw pact together in 1955 the USA was already doing CIA coups not just against communists and socialists, but even against 3rd world nationalists who just wanted economic sovereignty
11. The USSR spent its remaining history investing way too much of its GDP in self defense due to the cold war and the arms race. they were way behind the USA who had not only a developmental head start, but also fared better in WW1 and WW2
12. the sino soviet split, followed by operation cyclone which baited them into afghanistan, was the death knell for their economic sovereignty.
13. even after the USSR collapsed the USA drove more nails into the coffin by funding yeltsin's presidential campaign, and materially supporting him as he shelled parliament to crush soviet holdouts
so when you look at the entire life of the USSR, it's remarkable that they did as well as they did, and the criticism of them being too bureaucratic and authoritarian rings hollow. All revolutionary governments are obliged upon taking power to defend the power they took from the old regime, and all revolutionary governments upon taking power are attacked from the outside by allies of the old regime. It is only natural that revolutionary governments appear authoritarian and bureaucratic upon taking power. Did not George Washington crush Shay's Rebellion? Did not Robespierre use the committee for public safety to decapitate 10,000? Liberal revolutions themselves were bureaucratic and authoritarian upon seizing power and needed to be to maintain their growth against feudal counter-revolution. The same appears to be the case for socialism in its cradle. Jefferson said the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, yet quivered in fear at the Haitians living up to that quote who hung their French slave masters. It would seem we have a double standard that Socialist and anti-imperialist regimes are held to which liberal bourgeois regimes are not held to.
>>2527462>>2527483oh i have no idea. i have never watched hasan and am only aware of him bc people post about him here + general seething on the internet about his antizionism. if its a zio smear campaign i dont want to proliferate it i just saw a lot of leftypolers talking about it as if it was established fact and i strongly dislike e-celebs so guess i was biased to believe it.
>>2527632you quote nothing and treat history as a decontextualized soup of events that support your narrative, but the moment another anon quotes something you screech that it is out of context and refuse to elaborate.
>>2527634>they failed<no they were set up to failok sounds like agreement
>>2527644you are oversimplifying not only my post, but the post i am responding to. you just seem like an annoying gremlin.
>>25276401. different person
2. quoting some shit without a source is worse than just stating it because a person saying something can be interrogated for what he means but you cannot do that with a quote
>>2527628why? china's doing it
>>2527650idk what you guys are talking about but i strongly agree. without more context quotes are like graphs or statistics, theyre very helpful as easy shorthand and references, but also very easy to use to invoke authority and try to intimidate someone out of a discussion. either establish your specific position and that youre looking for particular kinds of evidence, or accept that youre having a discussion based on reasoning without the need for specific sources or evidence. both are perfectly good and helpful ways to talk about things with different uses, but when you try to force the latter into becoming the former only when its convenient its a rhetorical trick whether you mean it that way or not
>>2527452would had been funny without the KANGZ racial epithet
>>2527553no, they have lower rates because they're in less developed societies
>>2527598
by your own logic you're wrong, you've only done the "legal" stuff, and you've yet to do the "illegal" stuff, you're a poser who just wants to feel good while you jerk off to the idea of your imagined enemies being killed while doing nothing than imagining yourself as the next lenin, get in line pal, you're nothing special
>>2527634I’m a USSR defender but they failed, they couldn’t over come U.S. hegemony. You can cry unfair all you want but nobody said the bourgeoisie would play fair. So the only conclusion is that either Marxism-Leninisim is a dead end that can only achieve rapid industrialization and national liberation (Worthwhile goals and extremely impressive results imo) acting as a shortcut for semi-feudal societies to leap frog and create the conditions for a bourgeois class to emerge. Or the U.S just makes communism impossible so only revolution here will achieve communism, and any attempts by the periphery are pointless.
>>2527651yeah you're right, China's doing it, but its just the nature of the state to never be fully be 100% ideologically captured by a political party at any one time, even a one party state
>>2527624it was still quite enough a difference to matter though.
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