"turns out conservatives and reactionaries are just dumb after all" edition.
news:
- Your Party is suing itself, more at 11.
- The SNP and Plaid are going to form a "progressive alliance" somehow
- The government's going to do a switcheroo by raising income tax slightly and cutting national insurance to balance it out. (But they won't - follow this to its logical conclusion and scrap NI entirely)
- They're also considering cutting VAT on energy bills (which is the least efficient way of lowering bills you can imagine)
- The board of deputies asked Aston Villa for free footy tickets. In a worrying sign of rising antisemitism, Aston said nah.
- Labour is falling behind the Greens in the opinion polls as their strategy of copying Reform drives away their already-begrudging supporters without winning over any Reform voting reprobates. Nobody could have predicted this.
554 posts and 101 image replies omitted.>>2577591Stalin is referring to Social Democracy as it has existed since it began to be elected into positions of power.
The problem with social democracy is not its aims or goals, it is its work in practice.
>>2577599>The problem with social democracy is not its aims or goals, it is its work in practice.The problem with it is we already tried it in the UK and it fucking sucked.
Its also just capitalist reformist nonsense, give us communism/socialism/anarchism, stop arguing for half measures.
>should our party call ourselves socialist
>should we say that the working class is what we're fighting for
jesus christ it's literally british die linke oh god oh no
>>2577557and i trust that you're busy working on building "armed collective organizations" aren't you, you fucking LARPer. you literal child. where the fuck do you think those are going to come from?
>>2577576"idpol" isn't non-negotiable, the whole reason there was a big fat argument is that "idpol" is clearly considered negotiable by the people who've been running things so far.
(p.s. i'm curious if you support the trans liberation group's call to
not have diversity representation officers. their argument being that minority groups should represent themselves collectively and autonomously rather than having tokens who can be pushed into signing off on bad things, LGBT Labour style.)
>>2577591this is one of those quotes that teaches you every communist is a pseud and a poseur, since anyone who cares to read notices the Soviet line abruptly changes in 1933 when they realize that actually, the NSDAP really is worse than the SPD and that, in fact, a popular front is desirable when dealing with actual fascists. one can then follow history even further and see that when stalin hand-wrote the CPGB's 1945 manifesto, he put forward something so anodyne that Your Party could plausibly adopt it.
it is a line that is painfully, transparently stupid and wrong. it has no basis in reality. it is useful only because it is a cudgel you can use to beat people with in online arguments. "the great stalin said ur fash, lol", you're so cool and edgy. you're so
radical because you're quoting the socdem
par excellence to attack parties that barely even qualify as socdem. who needs to analyze the conditions of 2025 when you can just dig up a quote from 1924? look at me, i'm so cool, i'm so radical, i'm posting ~stalin~ on the internet. fuck off.
>>2577620succ dem nutz, socdem just leads to communists in a river
>>2577621rosa is on the record as knowing the attempted german revolution was premature and doomed to end in disaster, she only went along with it out of obligation. the jeremy corbyn of martyrs.
i have no interest in defending the SPD (tied for shittest party with labour, but less interesting), but the communist attitude to the incident again reflects a fundamental unseriousness: i attempted to overthrow the state and the state shot back. what a horrible
betrayal! i was supposed to be the one doing the shooting! :(
there will be no communists in the river this time for the simple reason that there are no communists, just roleplayers. american civil war re-enactors take their tasks more seriously.
>>2577626
Zarah is (officially) a random MP running her mouth and opposed by most of the people who set up the conference. this is like arguing that Labour in 2017 was going to abolish Trident on the basis that Corbyn, personally, doesn't like the thing. (except Corbyn was at least leader!)
i don't know if it went to a vote in the end, but (unsurprisingly) there were in fact amendments submitted to declare the party explicitly pro-trans rights, pro-liberation, blah blah blah. you're looking for symbolism where there is none.
(if they haven't gone to a vote, it's because the party hierarchy is afraid of the possibility of a yes vote.)
i do not believe you would stick to a collective line if the great Stalin were to endorse all of the cliche liberal idpol positions, even as a purely strategic initiative. your tongue is too energetic for your hand to keep still.
p.s. liberal idpol in powerful institutions was clearly a response to bottom-up pressure, not top-down imposition. young people like liberal idpol, the CIA has to convince talented young people to work there instead of at google, so the CIA has to reassure you the days of the lavender scare are over… but that's another story.
>>2577624I genuinely have no idea why you're shilling so hard for jezbollahs retirement fund, your party is going to go nowhere jezza was happy to elect a transphobe landlord as the co-chair.
>>2577630>p.s. liberal idpol in powerful institutions was clearly a response to bottom-up pressurethe 'wolf' unveils its liberal fucking worship, disgusting.
>just roleplayers. american civil war re-enactors take their tasks more seriously.'im the only true revolutionary, yadayada' (im actually just a liberal) I can smell your narcissism and self importance from a mile away, you reek of shit.
>>2577631i'm not. one can be against many things. indeed, when everything is terrible it is correct to be against many things.
your party is a joke. western communists are also a joke. a non-zero number are even in your party! if rose flag was still alive we'd have the edinburgh fringe festival ITT.
do nothing then, continue being idle nobodies
>>2577635trvth nuke
will say tho not all of us are doing nothing, I just come here to get the news as its one of the only sane corners of the internet but im out on the streets most weeks doing activist shit
>>2577634actually my preferred animal is "the lion"
one need not worship liberals to get events in order. if, tomorrow, all the best students decided they loved red ties, why would an employer who wants the best graduates do anything other than make red ties part of their uniform? it costs nothing (people'll buy their own ties!) and it shows they're
with it. now, assume the demands are more like: red ties, and full communism. well, full communism is expensive, but the ties remain free and you can always have someone argue that you've got communist
values, and that perhaps the best way to embody these values is to put them into practice as part of a multinational financial services and consulting firm…
my most accurate model of "liberal idpol" is to consider it a form of coolness. this is agnostic to whether one endorses it or not, though of course i'd rather be cool than uncool. (not going to wear a tie though, i'm too lazy for that unless it's a funeral, and then red would be inappropriate…)
i make no claim to be the only true revolutionary. i would be more optimistic if i thought that. what is needed now is not "true revolutionaries", it is people who'll do the long and boring work of building up organizations that provide the bare minimum social base for electoralists or true revolutionaries (or anything else you might imagine) to build on top of. it is long, boring work. that's why nobody does it: it's not as fun as arguing on leftypol and it's certainly not as fun as carrying the stalin banner.
>>2577634>>2577631>>2577621NTA but why don't you just fuck off fam? clearly too brain-dead for normal conversation. it really is painful to read.
>>2577591The why was he the greatest socdem?
>>2577591The irony of this post is apparently missed by MLs, since Stalin's economic policies were nothing more than social democracy
There will never be a democratically elected Dem Soc or Communist in the UK again, it's so fucking joever, and Zarah and Corbyn and the landlords for Gaza are to blame.
>>2577116Apparently she's going to join the counter demo outside before going in for her speech, morbidly curious if they'll even let her in
>>2577165Mental illness, he's just roleplaying his TERF fantasies with ChatGPT
>party has its own leadership protesting the party outside the party headquarters
its over
At this point anyone who is actually Marxist should just make their own ideologically pure vanguard party since the career politicians are all clowns who care more about their egos and factional infighting, while most of those poor fools who joined YP seem scared to even use terms like "socialism" or "working class".
yeah lets split the socialist movement again
There is no socialist movement, we're splitting nothing. Dividing a zero is meaningless.
lets make a new socialist movement (there are now 18 socialist movements)
If you have to ask whether to call yourselves socialists via a poll of delegates and a substantial section are fearful to even do that, you have already failed.
>>2577718jesus christ this is a nightmare
>>2577722daleks are not proletarian
>>2577718The only person who actually registered as a Your Party MP is protesting the Your Party conference…
>>2577723Darliks are a tool. Darlicks pointed at the class enemy are in fact proletarian.
>>2577724>>2577718It was three of her staff who were expelled, apparently?
Ideological purity is worth less than nothing. Correct actions matter, not correct theory. (And no, smartarse, correct theory is not necessary for correct actions. You don't need a degree in biology to eat and sleep.);
>>2577732>It was three of her staff who were expelled, apparently?From my understanding the Corbyn faction expelled 3 of Zarah's staff, with the reason given it was because they had joint memberships with the SWP and/or Counterfire.
The Corbyn faction is claiming dual memberships with the SWP aren't allowed and invalidates a YP membership, and that Counterfire are a disruptive group and not welcome to attend.
Zarah's faction claims the issue of permitting dual party memberships is still to be decided on by delegates and that Counterfire are pro-YP, and this is just another attempt by the Corbyn faction to force her faction out.
>>2577733Organising a Socialist party isn't akin to eating it sleeping. Correct actions DO require correct theory.
You wouldn't trust your brain surgeon, or the pilot of a plane to have not read any theory.
Likewise economic literacy and policy making should require a similar degree of theoretical understanding.
>>2577745>You wouldn't trust your brain surgeon, or the pilot of a plane to have not read any theory. Yea i would, depending on their track record. A bricklayer does not need to know the chemical process that happens when they stick Sand, water and cement into a cement mixer to be a sick bricklayer, a chippy doesn't need to know why glue is sticky to use glue or the mathematics around tension to use a bandsaw.
>>2577742And yet, are Corbyn's team not members of other campaign groups and so on?
>>2577745Any worthwhile theory will tell you that a party is premature. Anyway, a more fun rabbit hole is that for all the aerodynamic theory out there, we don't actually
really know why wings generate lift. (the story every pilot gets is a school physics tier simplification)
https://www.scientificamerican.com/video/no-one-can-explain-why-planes-stay-in-the-air/But if you want to emigrate (and you should) then it's obvious you need a pilot, not a more advanced understanding of aerodynamic conditions.
Supporters of Stand Up to Racism have been expelled as well as the SWP and Counterfire it seems. I know SUTR and the SWP were pretty closely linked but they are definitely seperate things nowadays.
Some SUTR members who are being kicked out the conference don't have any links or membership to the SWP, so I wonder what grounds the Corbynites will invent for having kicked them out?
>>2577770irrelevant trots are irrelevant?
Someone make a new thread
>>2577780>Someone make a new threadI don't have any funny, sorry. Someone else will have to do it.
>>2577770Counter fire aren't even an electoral party so pretty funny they've been banned too. What next are you not allowed to be a dual member of YP and the national trust?
>>2577834Did you forget that the national trust is woke now? Of course that should be an expulsion.
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