"turns out conservatives and reactionaries are just dumb after all" edition.
news:
- Your Party is suing itself, more at 11.
- The SNP and Plaid are going to form a "progressive alliance" somehow
- The government's going to do a switcheroo by raising income tax slightly and cutting national insurance to balance it out. (But they won't - follow this to its logical conclusion and scrap NI entirely)
- They're also considering cutting VAT on energy bills (which is the least efficient way of lowering bills you can imagine)
- The board of deputies asked Aston Villa for free footy tickets. In a worrying sign of rising antisemitism, Aston said nah.
- Labour is falling behind the Greens in the opinion polls as their strategy of copying Reform drives away their already-begrudging supporters without winning over any Reform voting reprobates. Nobody could have predicted this.
Police ‘forced to disclose ethnicity of suspects to counter far-right speculation’
Guidance to combat misinformation puts pressure on police to release details, says former senior Met officer
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/02/police-disclose-ethnicity-suspects-far-right-speculationhttps://m.slashdot.org/story/448618>'Grand Theft Auto' Studio Accused of Union Busting After Firing DozensUnion statement on bluesky
https://bsky.app/profile/gameworkers.co.uk/post/3m4jbekuhrc2m Asking here because it's where I first learned about the podcast.
I've been listening to the free episodes of Trash Future for over a year now. I find it enjoyable background noise but not often laugh out loud funny, and some references go over my head (with 800+ unlistened episodes I suppose that is to be expected).
They release a Patreon episode weekly, including from a series called Britainology which I always read good things about but haven't actually listened.
Are the Patreon/Britainology episodes a big step up in quality from the free episodes? Or if I'm lukewarm on the free ones would the paid episodes not appeal?
>Your Party is suing itself, more at 11
Isn't there conference this month? Hopefully will make their policies clear so that they can be taken somewhat seriously again
Depressing how the yank thread fills up daily and we go days without a thread
>>2547161The Brit thread has definitely become more inactive over the last year or two, with some of the more active posters seemingly left for good, but might also be partially due to Britain having such a smaller population than USA
>>2547164
Then why do you find it depressing? You want the UK to have an even bigger population?
Your Party is such a shitshow that it might actually be plumbing new depths for the British "left". It's one thing to fail at building something from nothing, but Your Party has almost everything on easy mode: It has several MPs, it has an incredibly well known public figurehead, it has people with experience in a real party, it has a motivated activist base who want to believe in it. About the only difficulty it faces is that the Greens occupy a lot of the same policy space - but it's in with the advantage because 2017 era Labour members are going to sympathize more with the 2017 era Labour leader than with some guy they learned about a few months ago.
This really, really shouldn't have been a difficult task and yet they've somehow contrived to fuck it up. You really have to wonder if the entire Corbyn leadership of the Labour party was just a fluke: the Labour right were so incompetent and fucked up so badly that they let a team of slightly-less blithering idiots take over the party and took half a decade to dislodge them despite the fact none of them could organize a pissup in a brewery.
>>2547127i was watching the news and some cunts got stabbed. the FIRST THING the police were on about in the press conference was their ethnicity/colour, as if to say 'yes, they were not white'.
This is such a bad look, i don't think this country is going anywhere good re 'race' relations. :(
i asked deepseek how much of the UK ecenomy was unproductive, rent seeking, indirect state subsidies to zombi firms.
>A more realistic, albeit polemical, estimate is that 30-50% of the entire UK GDP is now based on state-backed or state-enabled rent-seeking and unproductive activity.
30-50% realistic?
>>2547127being stupid and being factually incorrect are different things, as discussed in the last thread. politics is not about describing reality, but about class interest.
>entire Corbyn leadership of the Labour party was just a fluke
It was. Objectively it was a fluke.
>>2547258as a former rebellious teen, i have absolutely no patience with the weepy woman grassing up her son
>>2547264if i went mad and turned into a raving fascist i would only hope my mum grasses me up to Prevent.
they wouldn't do anything because not brown and muslim, but in prinsible >>2547301well, youre clearly a slave who has no dignity, then.
you never betray your family. thats bonkers.
why not kick him out without the bloody theatrics?
>>2547264Apparently they are both Thatcherites too which makes it even funnier.
>>2547513So two rightoids have even more rightoid son makes sense. He should've just sucked up to them to keep the treats flowing
>>2547513no wonder the dad called him a "parasite" 🤣
>>2550190
how many times have random anons told you to fuck off with this shit?
Go back, /pol/ack. Or at least stay in your local containment thread at /ISG/.
>>2549422
>le /r/greenandpleasant!!!
Your hyper-obsession isn't driving anything. grow up autist.
>>2549422
how does the left improve the perception of its foreign policy stance
>>2549422
What do you suggest the left does instead?
You write all of this pointing out what is being done 'wrong' but offer nothing in terms of an alternative.
If Green party policies are "truly batshit to the electorate" you're in for a hard awakening for how the public will respond to a left wing 'revolution' outside of electoral politics.
I don't think Your Party / Greens etc are expecting to win the next election; seems more like building a movement for the subsequent election. And if Reform can be stopped from getting a majority this time, even better.
>>2550208>random anonsits just you.
>>2550271>I think brit politics is more exciting than american, trump will no doubt end up a lame duck next year when democrackas win the midterms.is that true? means the venezuelan invasion is probably going to be before the end of the year?
>>2550208If you were interested in revolution wouldn't you want to learn as much about it regardless of the source? Even rightoids can be sources of wisdom see
>>2550264 >>2550625cockshott called althusser a Madman because he strangulated his wife.
>>2550629but both agree that dialectics are cringe.
if the anon who had the theory about how conservatives like to argue about the definitions of words while leftists are really concerned with social context is still here, can you restate that theory again? i think about it every so often.
FUCK OFF with this rightist Neema Parvini
>>2551556sensible centre-leftist*
>>2551545my theory is that rightists are nominalists, or concerned with denotatum, whilst the left is generally concerned with connotation. thus, when a rightist implies bias by coding (i.e "dog whistles") they are free to play dumb by asserting that nothing they said in itself was "racist" for example, thus they will persist upon a false neutrality as regarding semiosis, even claiming that slurs in themselves are neutral (i once heard for example that "uyghur" had zero racial content to it because its etymology supposedly rests in the term "uyghardly" rather than "negro"). what they all conclude is that there is no such thing as bigotry, but only leftist neurosis. we saw this many moons ago where a nazi in this thread reduced everything down to denying the reality of racism (a right-wing provocateur, jesse lee peterson, also does this, where they claim that "racism" does not exist). thus, someone like curtis yarvin claims that "racism" is not a belief, but is a lack of belief. everyone is supposedly "racist", but "racism" only has a reality where it is signified. this of course is the same as saying that you cant rape someone if the victim is unconscious. this clumsy machiavellian idiocy is part of having low social intelligence, since you might be the type of guy to make insensitive jokes and then get angry at the audience. we see this "unfunny" and "uncool" posturing with older men who like to complain about "woke" and so on. what is "cool" (fashion/status) has a limited shelf-life, and so not "getting it" shows one's failure to adjust. the right above all else are uncool, which is also part of their desparation to be included (i.e. PJW claimimg that "conservatism is the new punk rock") to universal cringe.
higher social intelligence means "getting it" by some margin, and so it also means conformity, with fashion being downstream from elite opinions and apparel. this is why leftist social awareness adapts to code and custom more readily (with the vast majority of comedians being left-wing for example). todd mcgowan has given an excellent reading of left versus right comedy before (vidrel). an issue with this leftist "oversocialisation" (e.g. ted kaczynski) is that it tends to conform itself into censorship, directly and indirectly, since the overcoding of awareness targets digression. this is why leftist spaces are sectarian, since vying for power means splitting the opposition for higher status. on direct and indirect semiotics, we also see that the left appears punitive against thought crimes and lenient on physical crimes, while its opposite for the right. this would operate in terms of blasphemy and mortal sins.
>>2551724WHAT THE FUCKAA cuck is a communist now? I remember when he had his ass blown out by that Kermit sounding motherfucker over the LTV ~10 years ago. Incredible.
>>2551771he's been watching and reading cockshott,
and recently vindicated the LTV here:
>>2550291he said that he wants to talk with him.
>>2551812
enjoy your eternal football hooliganism
>>2551805Incredible, incredible. I remember he said he knew Marx well and had written at length about him, despite not knowing anything in that debate with the Kermit sounding motherfucker. I guess he finally read a book not written by Anne Applebaum.
>>2551857All these people remember is that it was a golden age for car salesmen so it was obviously great.
>>2551837I can already see the sorts throthing at the mouth to occupy Birmingham.
>>2552121crazy to me to want to spectacularise ripping flags down, but fair enough, i guess.
>>2552289They are using it as a mechanism to generate support (ngl anti-flagging is good in principle but hardly a strong basis for building a socialist movement off of). What i see with them is your usual "Anti-Reform, Anti-Capitalist, pro-Palestine" stuff with a vague IRA sheen from the use of kneecap, ballies & bererts, and the phoenix that looks very Provo, yet without any explicit Irishness. They seem to be active in provincial towns (especially in the North East) but also they dont seem to be particularly ideological. Certainly aren't Leninists or Anarchists. I don't know kinda feels like Irish Republicanism but instead of Irish Culture its rootless zoomer philonationalism. You know the sort; who are anti-british and anti-english, yet love when "the right sorts" do nationalism (Irish, Palestinians, Latin Americans).
I guess I just don't see how there is a social base for this beyond those who are already outcasts yk? Building an ANTIFA movement that is already the social outcasts is not a path to success.
>>2552121>>2552368Activism is ultimately pointless, the only time action matters is when it is revolutionary.
That said this is still based and makes me feel good. I hope they keep it up.
>>2552121why don't they burn them? Would be more symbolic in my opinion.
>>2552368Dosen't this just happen every few years?
Like some lads will try to do antifa themed hooligan agitprop, or go for a german street-maoist aesthetic, or this.
never seems to go anywhere.
>>2552468The third webm
is them burning them.
Do you like the greens leftybritpol? only thing I don't like is they're anti-nuclear and nimby
>>2553646>england shouldnt have responded to the blitzclearly this is crypto-fascist rubbish.
>warmongerthe tide really turns in 1941 after hitler's absolutely retarded operation barbarossa, where he violated his pact with the USSR. its only after this that we get "the united nations" or "allies" in 1942, and the official alliance which eventually crushes germany.
>>2553649I like them theoretically but don't yet feel any particular warmth to them yet. Time will tell. In an election, I would shrug and vote for them.
This is much better than Your Party, where if I'm honest my gut feeling is that I want them to fail and die quickly because they've proven themselves incompetent and distrustworthy in a way that will be very difficult to come back from. (And if it does, it would be because the membership basically instigate a purge, which is also bad for long-term stability and likely to provoke a split…)
I don't particularly care that the Greens are NIMBYs (planning reform is the current Labour government's responsibility, something they should be able to deliver
in service of capital. That they can't do it is a much greater sin than mere naiveté or localist-cynicism by the Greens.) or anti-nuclear (I've little against nuclear power itself, but I cannot trust the incompetent institutions of this country to deliver it.)
An electoral party is always a series of compromises which ultimately bring it down to little more than sign-value. The Greens are better than anyone else at saying nice things and not saying nasty things for no reason, so they're all-right in my book. Labour has the biggest fetish for not saying nice things and saying unnecessary nasty things unprovoked. (This is why they're dying: quite apart from actively running the country into the ground policy wise, every time they open their mouth it's to directly attack the 'values' of the people who voted for them.)
>>2553660>england shouldnt have responded to the blitzThe Blitz started over a year after Britain declared war on Germany.
>clearly this is crypto-fascist rubbishBeing opposed to war does not make someone a fascist.
>>2553646>>2553739Chamberlain, not Churchill, declared war on Germany.
Now: explain why you are opposed to the war. I trust it's because you're just a staunch Quaker, right?
>>2553752>Chamberlain, not Churchill, declared war on Germany.Churchill was the most vocal proponent of going to war with Germany as a backbencher in the inter-war years. When France fell in 1940 and he was made PM, Churchill put an end to all attempts to make peace with Germany - which was the logical thing to do at that time.
>explain why you are opposed to the warBecause I think 450,000+ British people dying for literally no benefit was a bad thing. A generation of young men sent to die in deserts, jungles and beaches for what? To rescue the political career of a narcissistic, alcoholic, upper-class maniac?
>>2553739>>2553764attempts at peace WERE MADE by neville chamberlain for example (e.g. "appeasement"), such as the "munich agreement" (1938) which allowed germany to take over czechoslovakia, on top of the annexation of austria ("anschluss"). chamberlain was later given no support by parliament after the failure of the norweigan campaign (april-june, 1940), resigning in may, and a few months later (with churchill premiership) the blitz started. how were we supposed to react after that?
if you blame joining the war in 1939 after the "hitler-stalin pact", what is the ideal reaction? after germany occupied france, what was supposed to be the reaction? after the blitz? as i say, some pragmatic defeat to hitler could have been possible without the idiotic operation barbarossa, which also concluded with america's entrance into the war via pearl harbour (december, 1941). everything turned around in 1942 with the establishment of the allies against the incompetent and hubristic axis. hitler lost the war on his own terms. it was a battle of hitler against himself.
>>2553764>Because I think 450,000+ British people dying for literally no benefit was a bad thing. A generation of young men sent to die in deserts, jungles and beaches for what? To rescue the political career of a narcissistic, alcoholic, upper-class maniac?Far fewer than WW1 and yet it did provide a pretty clear and immediate benefit in the form of economic mobilisation towards the biggest rise in standards of living British history. Weird to chose WW2 as the "War where people died for nothing" when that describes pretty much every other war but it and at least one of them saw more brits killed.
>>2553764in terms of war britain had fought in the past 50 years it was probably the least worthless one, i mean come on you had the second boer war and the first world war, in which britain used its colonies as meatshields for insane military campaigns, the second boer war quite literally had no gain for the average briton (even ww1 had a positive effect as it led to a decent number of wealth redistribution from military pensions, and ww2 put british industry at full blast for 6 years, caused a labor government which did that even further, built basically every modern british institution to this day, and a number of other achievements, logically speaking it was worth it
Britain is the best case there is for free markets.
>B-but Thatcher
Thatcher wasn't a free marketeer, she was a LARPer. This shouldn't surprise you if you remember she was also a complete LARPer as a 'conservative' or as a 'nationalist'
"Right to buy" was a massive vote buying program worthy of a Latin American kleptocracy, the same is true of how most shares were sold. They weren't sold at their market price to serious investors.
British Airways privatization ultimately wound up putting it into a competitive market (thanks mostly to EU openskies making it unavoidable), although it was clearly planned to be a monopoly or duopoly.
Other than that, pretty much everything else has been former civil servants and establishment weirdoes roleplaying as free marketeers: look at energy or water. Private companies working to an arbitrary price set by a captured regulatory body while trashing their infrastructure. I'm sure that if Adam Smith were alive today he'd definitely say "that's exactly what I meant!!"
Then you've got British Aerospace (BAE), which lives mostly on government handouts. (Why buy an off-the-shelf American design cheaply and interoperably with other NATO countries when you can have BAE make you a bespoke toy, late and overbudget?), British Coal and British Steel (which had a lot of semi-viable facilities shut down before privatisation as part of a program of social engineering), and Railways (which, like energy, were a complete LARPing farce where the main decision private firms made was to argue over who gets left holding the bag for delay repay.)
Thus Britain winds up in the worst of all possible worlds. Ownership is often foreign, but control lies with a domestic oligarchy. Said oligarchy is not competent. Indeed, said oligarchy is probably less competent than the average Soviet administrator. Attempts to rectify this will run into the same "problem" as the original experiment: instead of letting impartial market forces rip, the dice will be loaded in favor of those who're already in charge… (This is what Reform will do, for example. They are, after all, "Thatcherites")
Perhaps we should sell the whole country to Toshiba as a package deal.
>>2553764>A generation of young men sent to die in deserts, jungles and beaches for what?Bro is salivating while writing this. Stop the cap retard.
Our beloved justice system has decided that you can't get get any pushback for ranting about Muslims like a weirdo on Twitter anymore because "Islam-Critical" views are protected philosophical beliefs worthy of respect in a democratic society under the Equality Act 2010.
If you think "maybe an actuary shouldn't be making an arse of themselves online under their real name if they want to stay in good standing with the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries" I regret to inform you that you're on the wrong side of (British) history. We must protect the right of upper-middle class people to be as obnoxious as possible without consequence.
>>2555360>you should go to jail for being annoyingshould you get a life sentence, then?
>>2555360what are you on about?
What do you think of Jeremy Corbyn?
>>2555374Nobody said anything about jail, a bloke got kicked out of the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries for breaking the rules and a tribunal found that actually, that's the same thing as kicking him out for being of the wrong religion.
You should, in fact, be thrown out of a professional association for being embarrassing in public. Freedom of association is much more fundamental than freedom of speech.
>>2555400https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/11/08/criticism-of-islam-is-a-protected-belief-judge-rules/(Read with the awareness that the Telegraph clearly have an agenda and seek to put him in the most positive light possible, including the laughable suggestion from skull-measurer Douglas Murray that he'd have been fine if he'd been going after Judaism.)
>>2555417I don't think i know what Actuaries are.
>>2555473yea this is gonna get graffed up in no time. Kids are going to sit on that hill to smoke.
The BBC Director General has quit.
A memo written by Michael Prescott, a former Times journalist & former BBC editorial advisor, was leaked by the Torygraph.
It states that a recent Panorama show was "deceptively edited" to make Trump look bad. Because by showing clips of him speaking arranged in a certain way it apparently made it seem like he encouraged the Jan 6 insurrection attempt.
As if somehow we're all supposed to believe Trump was against, or at least neutral, towards Jan 6th.
The memo also accuses BBC Arabic of having sympathies for Hamas, and of there being a radical LGBT activist clique censoring those who are merely innocently asking about a (final) solution the the "trans question".
It also claims the BBC underreports the topic of immigration (as if it isn't the leading story most nights), and that the BBC accuses organisations of racism too easily.
The memo calls for the BBC, especially BBC Arabic, to have more uplifting and positive stories from the "Israeli" perspective.
It likewise, calls for their to be more BBC News stories portraying anti-trans rights activists (TERFs) and their efforts in an uplifting and positive perspective.
And it also calls for the topic of immigration to recieve more news coverage.
So, apparently the BBC is so anti-Trump, pro-migrant, pro-Hamas, and pro-trans that the top man (who is a former Tory activist by the way) had to resign in shame over it.
An earlier internal BBC report based on the result of surveys on public satisfaction with coverage has already stated that the BBC needs to appeal to Reform voters more.
This is another firm push in that direction. Do not trust the mainstream sources about anything serious. We are headed towards dark times.
>>2555879I hate the media so much like I can't believe this is a real controversy
Trump says he's going to seek $1bn USD in damages in a lawsuit from the BBC.
BBC has also said it's coverage of Gaza was "anti-Semitic" and will change it going forward (i.e. to be more pro-Israel).
It has also said it will change it's coverage of the "gender identity debate" (i.e. to be more anti-trans).
>>2556349B-but we ruled the waves, the special relationship… railways in india.. *sniff*
>>2547154What is the law here? I guess you can't fire someone like that
Will they win?
>>2556349I mean what do you expect? You can't go around misleadingly editing things. Imagine if the BBC had misleadingly edited a documentary to imply Labour members were saying things like "Hitler was right" and "Hitler didn't go far enough" under Jeremy Corbyn, when in actual fact those things were said by random Nazis. You'd be appalled, and heads would rightly roll at the BBC if something like that ever happened.
It's obvious that the BBC is institutionally antisemitic, like the Labour party. That's why 121 BBC journalists signed an open letter saying that they felt that the BBC was performing PR for Israel: because they're so full of antisemitic, pro-Hamas bias.
And then there's the gender identity thing. Look, it's obvious that the BBC is full to the brim with radical transactivists. What do you think they are, the Daily Mail? The BBC would never run an outrageous clickbait article based on the say-so of a sex-pest who hates transhumanists and a twitter poll by an anti-trans organisation. But remember when that person was reprimanded for scowling and going-off script at the phrase 'pregnant people', eh?
>>2556349UK turning into US territory faster than Canada. Reform UK will accept de-facto anexation.
Out of curiosity how would you react if you a literal open fascist/neo-nazi on the streets? Would you confront them?
What if you saw someone in Reform or MAGA attire?
>>2555879>The BBC Director General has quit.
>A memo written by Michael Prescott, a former Times journalist & former BBC editorial advisor, was leaked by the Torygraph. >It states that a recent Panorama show was "deceptively edited" to make Trump look bad. Because by showing clips of him speaking arranged in a certain way it apparently made it seem like he encouraged the Jan 6 insurrection attempt. >As if somehow we're all supposed to believe Trump was against, or at least neutral, towards Jan 6th.Trump was just a few minutes away from the White House on that day, giving a speech, getting the crowd heated up, many from that crowd than ran to the White House (there is a nice clip out there with movement data from hacked cellphones showing this). When he got to be Prez again, he handed out pardons to the people involved in the insurrection.
>>2557100>Zionists are so fucking dumb istg. can't believe burger media psyoped me into thinking jews were smart all those yers.Christian zionists
THIS COUNTRY IS A SHITHOLE
SAVE MEEEEE
>>2557353CPI is going to open a UK branch?
academic agent had haz on his show kek
>Starmer's allies brief the press suggesting Wes Streeting is plotting against him
>Instead of scaring MPs into line, it's given them and the press carte blanche to speculate about when he's going to be replaced because he's such a dud
It's awe inspiring how bad at this these people are.
>>2557848>>2557563He's gonna join the CPGB-ML isn't he.
the political pendulum in this country has swung so far to the right that basic social democratic policies like 'maybe advanced industries should be state-run' are conflated with wanting automated luxury communism and the only two viable positions are thatcherism and thatcherism-lite (blairism) =_=
>>2557917there are other sensible policies that are branded "far-right" as well. we live in polarised times.
>>2557895inshallah
So Wes Streeting is planning to coup the Labour leadership either post-budget, if it goes bad enough, or else when the 2026 local elections prove a disaster for Labour.
Starmer for his part says he will fight to retain leadership and will stand in any new leadership contest that may occur.
This is simply just our red Tory genocidal ruling elites deciding which puddle of liquid shit and vomit is more appealing to them.
No material difference will be affected, Wes is equally evil and demented in his own right.
>>2557957
>[jews are] purely devoted towards deception and trickery rather than anything productive
over 20% of nobel prize winners are jewish…
Starmer out for Streeting? LMAO
Piss for shit? LMAO
>>2557957
>[Jews] utterly lack any ability to create things for themselves
<all of the biggest world religions are DLC packs for judaism
HMMMMM IM STARTING TO THINK THIS HITLERITE ANTI-SEMITISM MIGHT NOT BE RATIONALLY CONSISTENT OR LOGICALLY SOUND!!!!
>>2556397Antisemitism is not a substantive issue in the west, at all. Jews are literally the single most privileged ethnic group on earth. In the UK, if you are Jewish, there is a 90% chance you have 6 figures in your bank account. They are the richest ethnic group by a margin, over double the wealth of the next richest, brahmin indians. "Antisemitism" materially is a pure meme, you do not face material racism when you literally fall upwards to the most elite, materially wealthy positions in society based on just your ethnicity. It doesn't actually affect their lives. Also why should I give a fuck about "antisemitism" anyway. I couldn't give a fuck about "religious freedoms" especially not for an ethnosupremacist dogshit tier religion like Judaism. You can also see the entire way the media and entire elite play the antisemitism card like it's the worst thing on earth, that support for Jews/Judaism is truly a class issue. Jews are pretty much a "bourgeoisie" ethnicity in the west. The elite are more likely to interact with Jews than non Jewish people, they see their friends as Jews, their networks, Jewish, business elites and political elites, largely Jewish, so it becomes class solidarity to support Judaism. What is hilarious is watching this play out on Adam Friedland's show of all places where basically any establishment/Media person he gets on will try to be good little shabbos goys to him of all people. "Ohh did you know I'm spiritually Jewish, I think I may have a Jewish great grandparent somewhere, I'm a chosen aren't I"! Once you see the shabbos goy nature of so much of the elite, you cannot unsee it. The reason they do this is not because they love Judaism, it's because even WASP elites still see Jews as their superiors in the Capitalist heirarchy.
The networks you have to climb in the Western elite, are largely all stein and berg last names and everyone knows this. Even your average baz at the pub knows that Jewish people are massively overepresented and hold power vast outstanding their actual demographic percentage among the elite. The average baz also knows that Jewish people are massively ingroup, and wield bad faith antisemitism accusations relentlessly, so if you are going for a "populist" campaign, there is really no issue in actually just stating plain facts. Trying to dance around the reality, which is what the left always largely did, never worked because you really always just ended up defending bad faith Jewish crybullying. It's not a surprise that when the left was FINALLY spurred into going on the offensive, did the whole Zionist charade crumble. because when you get Zionists on the BBC saying "yeah, palestinian children are all terrorists who deserve death" in response to finally being fucking pressed on their positions due to being on the defensive. The average person no longer gives a fuck about bad faith crybullying. Corbyn NEVER should have apologized for antisemitism, not once. He should have called out Zionist beliefs on air, asked Zionists to describe negation of the diaspora. Brought in British Palestinians to tell their stories of Zionists murdering their families and Zionist harassment of their community. If Corbyn went on the offensive against the Zionist lobby, he would have won. But he did not, because the left will always fall for bad faith crybullying traps. Always, because "inclusivity" and "antiracism" is the raison d'etre for most of the Western Left, not Socialism.
>>2558870you're wrong on that last point. left-wing opinion is now so anti-Israel that Corbyn is regularly accused of being a zionist for his squishy two-state solutionism, while Zarah Sultana (for all her flaws, good at saying what the British left wants to hear) is unequivocal on the question.
the western left is more accurately modeled as wanting to be cool. it's a balancing act: antisemitism is uncool, but antizionism is increasingly required to be cool. bad faith actors will always conflate the two, but the difficulty of pulling it off is precisely why it's such an appealing game.
excessive "inclusivity" is just a costly signal. it's like saying "i'm so rich, i can afford to dress like shit". they say "i'm so cool, I can afford to go all Lisa-Simpson without impugning my coolness.", if you go anti-SJW you're uncool, while if you try to go all SJW as Lisa Simpson, you're also uncool because you are Lisa Simpson… >>2558870>Antisemitism is not a substantive issue in the west, at all.well, i-
<jews are a bourgeois ethnicity who control the media and in fact, just use antisemitism as a label. dont believe their evil talmudic lies!every person who initially denies the existence of antisemitism always ends up as an antisemite.
>because "inclusivity" and "antiracism" is the raison d'etre for most of the Western Left, not Socialism.well, the working class volk is a reactionary coalition which is incompatible with the cosmo-politics of the left. from the time of marx, there has always been a split between the party and the people.
>>2558927lets take another example:
its high status to be a self-hating white; its low status to be a migrant. the left often confuse subject and object in this case. migrants arent cool, the people who promote migration are cool. thats the balancing act.
>>2559531Wtf her face is so small?
>>2559531lol, I went to school with her, it's fucking weird seeing someone you (used to) know doing some talking head commentary like this, I don't think I can stand watching it.
>>2559626face levels reading smaller than kirk himself wow
>>2559879>>2559626>>2559899Anons. I meant the Filton PA guy who absconded and went underground. not the presenter..
>>2559900buddy we know but her face… ᶦˢ ˢᵒ ˢᵐᵃˡˡ…
>>2559879i mean no aspersions against you was it a posh school?
Independent Alliance of MPS - shit
Zarah Sultana - shit
Zack Polanski - doing well, but ultimately a Green
Trot parties - LOL AND LMAO
CPB - right ideas, zero energy, zero organization, not doing anything of note
WPB - LOL AND LMAO
do I just kill myself?
>>2559910I have
see the section of my post entitled "trot parties"
nice enough guys, i suppose, but ultimately its the vibe of people who never left student politics get REAL EXCITED but they don't have a clue how to actually organise anything and are, at the base of it, trots who cannot help but trot out hard at every opportunity
>>2559906Yeah, pretty posh. It was a grammar school in Marlow. So in theory no fees so not expensive, but in practice the catchment area was very expensive to be in.
>>2559916I only ask because on one episode she said she was gonna inherit a house that would probably have a mansion tax applied to it if there was one (based on various suggested models of a mansion tax) shes alright though, for a green and lib etc etc
>>2559917Interesting, I was never super in with her crowd so I didn't know too much about her family situation. From what little I've seen of her, she seems to have alright takes, just a shame to see her so hyped up for the greens. And I guess she is quite into her idpol, which I can't really blame her for since she's directly affected by all the anti-trans rhetoric
>>2559908invest your energies in emigration instead of in politics.
(that's my hypocritical advice anyway, i'm here aren't i?)
remember: Britain is a country composed entirely of the descendants of people who were offered several chances at a better future by emigrating and
didn't take it. we are strongly selected for being, basically, miserabilist cowards ruled over by unadventurous parasites who'll lie down and take it because doing things is difficult and scary. that's a terrible base to build off.
p.s. the CPB is the worst org on that list by far. the right ideas are not the 2017 labour manifesto summarized by chatGPT in a more radical font, plus culture war dogwhistling. every org on the list is wrong about some things, but only the CPB manages to be so tediously boring about it. >>2559929>strongly selected for being, basically, miserabilist cowards ruled over by unadventurous parasitesIf this was true, it would apply to every population that experienced significant emigration waves, including East Polynesians, the Mongols, and basically every European and Slavic nation that was around during the 19th century.
>>2559929I love this country and that is why I stay rather than just giving up and moving to somewhere equally as bad.
>>2559935i'm not opposed to this view on the whole. i've nothing against Mongolia*, most euro nations are (like Britain) clearly past their prime and now just slowly going demented in the care home, and many slav nations still see massive brain drain today. Polynesians are the only snag, but the very fact that they're polynesians means they've already been selected for being the kind of badass who'd get on a tiny boat and sail out into the pacific. deciding to stick around in a tropical paradise is, at worst, a regression to the mean.
but i would say Britons have less of an excuse for staying than most. if you're an Italian going to America you're taking a real gamble on going to a basically foreign land, if you're French and moving to Africa you're off on a real adventure, but britons had canada/australia/NZ to move to as well, which are all playing on easy mode. (in addition to a relatively privileged place if they moved to the US) if you like, it's not that we sent away all our real risk-takers, it's that we sent away the people who'd take a small risk for a big payoff. that's why we're particularly fucked.
*Mongolia, like China, seems to have a large amount of
internal migration / rural > urban movement, which is the same basic phenomenon. contrast britain, where people stick around in towns that have had no reason to exist in generations. the only real internal migration is students and wankers who move to London.
>>2559940you'd have to go some to find somewhere equally as bad. this country performs poorly on average, and the averages are dragged up substantially by London and the South East. all we've got going for us is that we speak english.
everything lovable about this country (and i don't deny such things exist) diminishes day by day, everything contemptible grows at the same pace.
>>2559935yes and the inverse would also be true, like, the most migrant populations became the strongest and had the greatest will to power.
If only it chimed with history like idk, some old middle eastern group, cast out into the desert, who now have an inordinate control of western and middle eastern politics…
….
……….
>>2559957(Old stock market exchange kind of place, except it was for corn instead of stonks)
>>2559959People know what a Corn Exchange is we are british.
>>2559982I still don't and I took the picture. :(
I'm common, my type probably aren't usually allowed near this stuff.
>>2559957I've eaten in there before, used to be a decent Indian. WHat's it turning into now?
Adnan Hussain has resigned from Your party
>>2560092first time in his life he's acted in the party's best interests, good fucking riddance.
>>2560063>I've eaten in there before, used to be a decent Indian. Yea, everyone keeps saying it used to be really good food.
>WHat's it turning into now?Turning it into a pub, it's same bloke who runs The Crown/Mothers Ruin/Croft bar. Building is listed though so not really much is changing on the interior, building a bar right in front of the picrel colonial art. IDK if the downstairs was open when it was a restaurant but the old clerks room look super cool too.
Just did up The Croft, too, nice that it's open again as a venue, spent so much of my youth in there seeing bands, glad that 'crofters rights' (what tf does that even supposed to mean?!) hipster bar failed miserably. Exchange is running the venue.
>>2560092>Adnan Hussain has resigned from Your partyBASED GOOD RIDDENS AND GET THE FUCK OUT.
Guess i'll be joining after all then.
>>2560116oh btw, and justs googling this now the vile little fucker tried to salt the earth with accusations of racism, from the gruandianian:
>On Friday afternoon, Hussain said via X he had spent recent months reflecting on his role in an organisation he had believed would be based on “a commitment to equality, justice and anti-racism”.<He said: “Regrettably, the reality I encountered has been far from this vision. The culture surrounding the party has become dominated by persistent infighting, factional competition and a struggle for power, position and influence rather than a shared commitment to the common good.>“Instead of openness, cooperation and outward focus, the environment has too often felt toxic, exclusionary and deeply disheartening.”<Hussain condemned what he said felt like “veiled prejudice” in the way he and other Muslim independent MPs had been treated within the party, talking about “generalised accusations and offensive slurs”. I legitimately don't believe it for a second. What i'm guessing he's doing is using his decrepit nonsense religion as a cover for his conservative beliefs and claiming it's racism to oppose him on this ground. Fucking cunt.
>>2560122slurs were just flying about n that
no explanation needed
>>2560092Is it now racist to not want a culturally reactionary Islamo-Conservative anti-LGBT pro-incest mega-landlord as the 2nd in command of your progressive Socialist party?
For what it's worth I think Your Party have already fucked it beyond the point of fixability and ever becoming a major political force, even with him gone.
There's already internal splits, legal and financial disputes, etc.
They've played up to the worst stereotypes of leftist failure to organise & infighting, they've made total clowns of themselves thus far.
>>2560138Somehow this will all be blamed on the ever elusive trans mob
>>2560139Undoubtedly.
And don't get me wrong, I do want Your Party to succeed, maybe I'll join once they decide on policies if they seem reasonable enough in direction.
I just think they have made things so much harder for themselves than it needed to be with everything that's happened so far.
Anyone else going to the Bloody Sunday March for Justice? If you're feeling apathetic maybe you should find people to go with since there are meant to be like really radicalising walking tours.
Just noticed when the BBC talks about Reform UK, they call them "right wing".
Never hard right, nor extreme right, nor radical right, and most certainly not far-right.
Meanwhile, when Zarah was introduced on Question Time, Your Party was refered to as a party of the "radical left".
What do you make of this?
>turns out conservatives and reactionaries are just dumb after all
was there any ever doubt? these retards are looking at past periods of capitalist prosperity as some sort of lighting in a bottle but 80% of time when you look back at what made those periods so prosperous it's usually empowering workers and taxing porkies to hell
Once again, Edmund Griffith is posting the signal (rocket exploding at launch). So what's "Your Party" been up to?
The world is going off kilter because most people born before 2008 were raised on the premise that the oil boom would continue forever and that growth would accelerate forever until we become Star Trek or at least Futurama.
The fact is, all the easy oil is gone. Burning oil is (was) the most efficient energy source that there was or ever will be. It yields a ratio of 1:200 of work put into obtaining it VS what you get out of it.
Now, we've depleted all of that and only the hard stuff will be left soon. Things will only get harder and for you, more costly, from here on out. I cannot help but feel this emotion of extreme loss and neurosis that millennials and roomers feel is a result of being told the future is glittering, but running up against this transition period where they will never experience the standard of living seen in the late 90s to early 2000s again.
>>2560941>The fact is, all the easy oil is gone. Burning oil is (was) the most efficient energy source that there was or ever will be.It's not efficient at all, it's just convenient. Chemical reactions are a very shitty and inefficient way of converting matter to energy because nearly all of the mass of matter is in the nucleus not in the electrons. A kilogram of uranium has millions of times more potential energy than a kilogram of crude oil or coal; you just have to be smart/rich enough to release it.
>>2560631any examples?
or just more blather?
>>2560620are reform actually "far-right" though?
Why are you in favor of millions of uyghurs, sand uyghurs, pajeets and brown people entering europe?? are you brown yourselves?
>>2560058Every town that has a field near it has one, but fair enough.
>>2561337Why you aren't if you have Ancap flag?
>>2561367So you are a libtard but you hate brown people invading your country.
>>2561255I feel like the prefix "far" should really be reserved for revolutionary communists, anarchists (far left), or fascists and nazis (far right).
But really the issue with that is by labelling both sides of the spectrum in the same way, it draws a kind of false equivalence in the eyes of the uneducated.
And that's an issue because clearly the far right is far more evil, murderous and damaging to the world than the far left.
Anyway, I think it's at least fair to call Reform hard right or radical right, especially if the BBC calls Your Party the "radical left".
But the BBC and mainstream media would never do that because they're scared of how Reform would react to it.
>>2561371If there's a libtard,then it's you
>>2561375Isn't this "lefty" /pol/
>>2561374youre still being incoherent
reform are right-wing
and sultana is a "radical leftist", no?
>>2561367>I for one hate immigration, that is why I am moving to Poland>immigration: the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign countryBait or retarded
>>2561337Pedophile says what
>>2561337ive addressed this issue before:
>>2558939its not that anyone "wants" immigrants per se, its rather that its low status (lower class) to oppose immigration (i.e. "current thing"). for example, there are many elite leftists who promote the diversification of the UK, while choosing to live in extremely "homogeneous" areas (upper middle class neighbourhoods). a similar thing happened in 2020 in the US with the BLM riots, where elite leftists supported the chaos, until it came to their residential areas, and suddenly it was unsupported.
>>2561402hint: poland is white
>>2561402LOL thats every liberal answer!! calling pedophile, racist, trash to everyone who disagrees. An englishman living in poland it's not the same as a moroccan. Not all inmigrants are equal. watch this if you can bear the truth:
https://youtu.be/Uc8DWmOX5Ac?si=T9wOZtjPmP3a1ktj >>2561416he called you a paedo bc of your paedo flag
>>2561416Why are you posting with the ephebophile /crypto bro /Musk fanboy flag?
>>2561419Idgaf what it is it seemed cool
>>2561419seems especially strange, since elon musk is an immigrant from africa who lives from government benefits - yet its good when he does it.
>>2561409actual immigration policy is poorly explained by the status game. if it was just a status game, keir starmer would either (a) shut the fuck up about immigration to play high-status, or (b) actually cut immigration to appeal to the low-status voters he imagines belong to labour, not noticing that young proletarians go for higher-status culture.
(also, different kinds of immigrants have different statuses: hong kongers are high status, for example, and people are unlikely to care too much about them moving nearby. other groups aren't so lucky.)
for the record my view on immigration is that 20 million migrants would be preferable to indulging official anti-immigration rhetoric, but that net emigration combined with warm rhetoric would be an improvement on the status quo. (and is what any smart center left leader would do if they thought immigration was a "real" issue to their party, rather than one that mainly riles up people who're already lost causes.)
>>2561427>if it was just a status game, keir starmer would either (a) shut the fuck up about immigration to play high-status, or (b) actually cut immigration to appeal to the low-status votershe's literally done all this in his time in power. he's tried to read the map and he keeps getting lost, because he doesnt know who his voters are, or should be.
>for the record my view on immigration is that 20 million migrants would be preferable to indulging official anti-immigration rhetoricyes, its respectable public opinion to support current thing (i.e. virtue signalling) - but privately, you dont actually believe this. no one does.
>>2561433"or" was very important: doing both reveals a certain schizophrenia. i would summarize that the problem is that in britain there are high-status reactionaries. there isn't a nice clean liberal/conservative split as in the USA. (and part of the reason for so much young-old tension is that young people basically play the american status game and don't instinctively defer to oxbridge twats.)
it is not difficult to believe something, i could give you arguments in varying degrees of good and bad faith (think how fun the next election would be with an electorate of 48 million rather than 28 million as in 2024) but my point was more that rapid and radical change in an ambiguous direction is better than open stupidity and ugliness. a good rule in life is to never get caught doing anything ugly. be a bastard if you must, but always be beautiful in public.
(e.g. in my example, do whatever you want to the immigration rules and numbers, but always
sound liberal. don't indulge the people who want you to sound cruel. if you must be cruel, be cruel to them…)
>>2561465>schizophreniayes; starmer goes from "island of strangers" to calling the public racist. he's simply a bad politician.
>but my point was more that rapid and radical change in an ambiguous direction is better than open stupidity and uglinessnot to be too crude, but stupidity and ugliness is in fact what is being imported. agency then, is not in the political objects which we call "migrants" (dalit), but rather the citizenry who should "know better". only white people are political subjects; everyone else is an object made to be moved.
>a good rule in life is to never get caught doing anything uglyyes, but sometimes when someone cuts the queue, you have to make a comment, since theyre taking the piss.
>do whatever you want to the immigration rules and numbers, but always sound liberal. don't indulge the people who want you to sound cruel. ineed, but then there's a dilemma as ive discussed it before. the right is actually playing the game, and has been. they constantly say "im not racist", "here's my black mate", "im a concerned citizen", etc. but nobody believes them. the alternative is of course to have an openly racist society, which some want, but the large majority dont, since an open race war is extremely painful and uncivil. thus, to call the right "racist" (which they are) is to still play a dangerous game, since at once we expect them to deny and accept the label in a rhetorical battle. the only alternative i see is fkr the left to be a bit less "respectable" to politically compete (by approaching what some call "vice signalling", or what i would call political "confession").
Trump is saying he no longer wants $1bn from the BBC… Instead, he now says he wants $5bn.
For reference that's roughly equivalent to the entire income of the BBC for an entire year.
Lmao degrees are worthless pieces of paper
Most university graduates are indebted losers who are educated beyond intelligence
>>2561571
Define woke
>>2561591
You're posting a literal neo-nazi/fascist/white supremacist's tweet in lieu of any argument.
Thanks for indicating you are devoid of any original thoughts and not worth interacting with.
>>2561591
Woke as term has no inherent meaning it's just a nebulous term for thing I don't like.
>>2561610
Let's review what happened here.
You came onto a leftist forum to post an image of a tweet saying the left needs to become anti-immigration and anti-woke.
I asked you to define woke.
Your replied by posting a screenshot of a tweet by an incel, Hitlerite, neo-Nazi extremist.
The implication being that you, and the extreme right more generally, don't need to define the terms you throw about, because your opponents already understand their meaning.
This is entirely missing the point that I was questioning whether *you* - individually and the extreme right as a whole - understood the buzzwords you use, and whether you believe woke has any concrete definition at all.
In response you say the left is finished for refusing to engage in bad faith pointless dialogue and debates with extreme right agitators.
Do you understand how retarded you are now? Can you not define woke?
>>2561591
Woke is when:
gender
unnatural hair colors
baristas
annoying art people
video essays
fandom discussion
attention-seeking behaviour
>Adnan Hussein fucks off
>Iqbal Mohammed starts TERFposting
lol
and the little one said roll over, roll over…
>>2561643
I accept your concession.
>>2561409>poland is whitethat is debatable
>>2561664The Haitians certainly didn't believe they were. IYKYK.
Your Party need to pick a side, trans people or Islam. The tightrope walking between the two sides isn't working out.
>>2561371>LibtardYANKEE GO HOME
>>2561679um actually like everything else, that's to be decided either at conference, or by ex-Labour staffers :)
>>2561679yeh or those groups need to pick socialism :)
>>2561679trans muslim baddies 👀🫦
>>2551603lol when I think of Todd McGowan my first thought is "oh, its one of those disgusting PMC radlibs who went on Pod Damn America with that anarchist dumb guy Jake Flores. Worst podcast I've ever subscribed to!"
>>2562470Can Brits explain to me what exactly is going on? Is this Corbyn being a lame boomer? Is this his entourage being power-hungry cunts? Is this (former) labor guard MI6 meddling? What's going on with Your Party?
>>2562477All of the above, plus an obsession with segments of the left (accelerated with Gaza) that pandering to the most vocally identitarian (and thus often incredibly reactionary) muslim voters is a winner.
>>2561679The problem isn't with "Islam", since there is no unified Islamic block anywhere in this world much less Britain. The problem is that in the UK context instead of allying with social minded and liberal Muslims, of which there is no end in UK, leftoids allied with the most lumpen, hardline conservative and patriarchal Islamic blocks because these guys often are capable of mobilizing large street actions.
Although i hate using Indian terms, this is what the Indians called "vote bank politics", and vote bank politics are bound to blow up one way or another
>>2558939Do you pull all of this from the place where one excretes fecal matters? There was no 'split between the party and the people' during the times of Marx , because during the times of Marx the SDP and other left wing forces were the largest, bar none, popular assembly of the German people. It was Volkisch politics that were created by upper middle class international-minded people, and you can see this from the class composition of the various theosophist and esoteric orders of pre-WW1 Europe
>>2561571someone should send neema marx's letters on irish immigration (december 11, 1869), (april 9, 1870):
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1869/letters/69_12_10-abs.htmhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/letters/70_04_09.htmthe class war pushes immigrants into england, causing competition amongst the working class (by which, the native workers end up identifying with the bourgeoisie in an imperial struggle rather than class struggle), yet it is the purposeful uneven development of foreign lands (i.e. aristocratic landlording) which creates the demand for labour in the first place. thus, securing national liberation for foreigners means a victory for the native working class of countries affected by immigration. without this, marx claims, "The [English] working class will never accomplish anything". what marx appears to imply (contrary to his earlier comments in the manifesto, 1844), is that proletarian inter-nationalism can only work by a series of compatible nationalisms.
>>2562502do you know marx's definition of what a "communist" is? do you know what lenin's "vanguard" is? patricians, not plebs.
>>2562482>>2562498The idea that the problem is Islam per-se seems misguided. None of the independent alliance wreckers represent particularly hardline Islamic politics. When asked to justify why they support anti-transgender policy, they don't reach for the Quran, they instead speak of women's
equality act protected rights to single sex spaces, the supreme court ruling, and, in two damning words, "british law".
In other words, the language of bog-standard British social conservatism of the sort practiced by
all of the major English political parties.
You may say that this is just camouflage and that what they're saying in private is much more religiously motivated, but I can't comment on that. I can only comment on what they say in public, and if they're really lying then it's sufficiently damning that they are
bad liars. They could've gotten away with staying quiet, they could have said "well, I'm a fairly strictly observant Muslim so what do you think I believe?" and left it at that, but they didn't: they volunteered their opinions and their style is as damning as their substance. "I hate them because Sharia says you're supposed to" would, at least, be a novel argument not advanced by any other party.
>>2563798ever hear about occam's razor?
>>2563936yes, but i would submit that it's in my favor.
"they are using the language of british conservatism because they are british conservatives" is simpler than "they are using the language of british conservatism because they are islamic theocrats engaged in Taqiyya"
>>2563936why, why must the simple answer be the answer, life is complicated, occams razor is gay
>>2563936>ever hear about occam's razor?but if you ask pervy old men addicted to twitter the simplest reason why people transition their gender is to spii on naked ladies in the bathroom.
dystopian shithole island
>>2564755It's so bleak
I wish I were American. I want to be in a west coast gay furry polycule. I'd settle for living in one of the really shitty states even, Britain is too grimly depressing to even aestheticise, its cultural norms depressing and revealing in depression and repression. I want to be an obnoxious outgoing American with questionable taste and impeccable honesty. Instead I'm just a cunt.
The only escape is the internet and naturally they're blocking everything here.
Ok in summer bits of it are nice, but it's not summer is it hi i am a centrist am i allowed to use this website? i don't know much about politics sorry
>>2564975as long as youre not a troll, its completely fine
>>2564978Not a troll, but I used to be more right-wing due to family influence and right-wing fearmongering about immigrants wanting to oppress gay people and women, ironically.
I love those public instruments like Xylophones they have in parks, what a great idea! Also, the public exercise machines are great too! It's a shame there is not a culture of using them really. I always swing on the bars when I walk by.
So what is a corn exchange anyway?
>>2564999batter all cyclists. they're always like this. my city (bristol) has a very long and good walkway that goes from the center all the way out to bath, it becomes unusable nowadays though because of middle class twats decided to get in to cycling.
i think a lot about doing murders there against them. i think i'd hate it because of all the grossness of a dead body and fluids, but i wish someone would.
>>2565036Place farmers used to bring physical crops for storage and either collect payment or used it to guarantee their capital in kind. Relatively recent they date to the 16th-17th century in most towns and were a product of the start of the mass transportation of food with the advent of the canals and turnpike roads.
>>2564982>right-wing fearmongering about immigrants wanting to oppress gay people and women, ironically.I am not being a dickhead I am just interested what kind of media sources you were getting this from? Like Tabloids or youtubers or like Sam Harris types? Were you an atheist?
>>2564992Public exercise machines are pretty common nowadays because like this anon
>>2564999 said bored yutes can't actually smash them, so councils are keen to put them up. They are usually in/next to play parks tho so it kinda ends up being something that makes you feel noncey going to which I think is why they arent used as much. I was in Sweden recently and they have water features EVERYWHERE, like sluice gates you can fuck around with in public parks. I get why people become socdem syncophants.
Got selected to go to the Your Party conference comrades, what is the /leftypol/ line that must be upheld?
>>2565044Noice, glad you won the lottery but kinda shit you wasted your win on this instead of the money lottery. better chances for the rest of us though i suppose.
What is even going to happen at the conference with the delegates? i'm kind of confused as to it all, waiting for some stability before i really join and pay attention.
Spoke to some TUSC/Socialist Party people today hawking papers, they seemed pretty excited about it and are joining.
>>2565039you sure? looks very posh for corn storage? pretty sure it's something to do with stocks.
>>2565044kill all landlords
>>2565044Remember to remind all the conference at every opportunity to uphold the latest, most advanced and complete form of Marxist science, which is of course Gonzalo thought
>>2565044Keir Starmer must reveal the location where socdem flag poster is imprisoned or, if applicable, the location of his body
While I think the Greens definitely go too far with their "legalise all the drugs" approach, really it is flatly insane that cannabis is illegal, and that we have a "criminalise the addict" approach instead of a health-first mentality.
Maybe you hate cannabis but I'm certain you cannot provide any good reason why consenting adults should be made into criminals go to prison for consuming it.
>>2565874one generally ought to think in terms of trade-offs and cost-benefit analysis rather than in terms of rigid philosophical principles.
>>2565877so its not just about consenting adults, then?
>>2565884i am not sure this conversation passes a cost benefit analysis so i'm out
>>2565905Kek
>>2565874Drugs have historically been used to cripple exploited communities with revolutionary potential such as China and black neighborhoods. Theres no good reason for a state to allow citizens to shoot themselves in the foot instead of enlisting them in productive labor, and with hard drugs, these are mutually exclusive long term. You retarded liberal
>>2565912should we ban alcohol?
>>2565874Childlike take. It affects both the wider society and the addict incredibly negatively, and even the drug dealer wouldn't be doing it if they had access to real jobs.
>>2565922you what? 🤣
a drug dealer makes bread; a wage slave makes crumbs - why would they work in an office instead?
>>2565925>a drug dealer makes bread; a wage slave makes crumbsYou live in a fantasy-land. May i recommend quetapine?
Reopen the opium dens! Put the cocaine back in coca cola!
>>2565939you are the one constructing fantasies of the drug dealer being a victim of a bad jobs market lol
>>2565054The storage was often in exchange for stocks. "Corn" used to mean any kind of cereal grain (wheat, barley, corn, millet etc.) so the idea is that you would take your cereal grains to the exchange, and they would store it (either onsite or sometimes offsite) in exchange for cash payment or stock in the sale. Again this developed out of the advent of better roads and canals which mean "Corn" could be moved en-masse inland far better, thus allowing a proper market for agricultural goods within England. I was slightly off with the dates, as it appears to be a thing of the 1700s (hence the arcitecture) but yeah.
>>2565052>Noice, glad you won the lottery but kinda shit you wasted your win on this instead of the money lottery. better chances for the rest of us though i suppose.I live in commutable distance to Liverpool so i think that bumped my chances aha.
>What is even going to happen at the conference with the delegates? i'm kind of confused as to it all, waiting for some stability before i really join and pay attention.Basically anyone who has joined could join a sorition. Atm we do not have an itinerary but apparently we will be voting on constitutional proposals. Very possible it is a ratfuck by the Corbyn outriders in a "vote for the proposal and if you vote against it we will go away and rewrite it to pass it" way.
>Spoke to some TUSC/Socialist Party people today hawking papers, they seemed pretty excited about it and are joining.Yeah they are some of the most "Up for it" out there. A part of it is because they have been trying to do this with TUSC for a decade and a half, and failing. Ironically enough tho they want less member power and to give trade unions (who will not join) more control lol.
>>2565137Not sure the 3 or 4 remaining independent landlord MPs will support this.
>>2565147This is disgusting revisionism and an attack about the Peasant-Proletarian Revolution in the Philippines and India.
>>2565275I don't think we will know where socdem flag poster is buried until the TRC c.2050.
>>2565874One cannot take heroin recreationally without immediate addiction nor social harm.
I've truly given up trying to live here, might unironically top myself in a few weeks time due to how badly I've messed up my life.
It's either homelessness or committing a crime to get sent down and then only thing I'd have the courage for is arson which I'd probably fuck up anyhow. Fuck this shithole island.
>>2566210gladio not spectacle. when the undercover agents are the founding members it means the police is scaffolding these groups, not infiltrating them
>>2566215If you're white just go to some random SEA country and use your skills, get some basic white collar job, marry some local upper middle chick and their family will set you up for life
>>2566215:(:(:( Have you tried to contact emergency housing services? Are you signed on at least? I know this shit is all useless and degraded, so sorry if you've tried everything in vain.
All i ever hear about in this godforsaken place is suicides. At least in a few generations we will have solved the ageing crisis.
>>2566226yea, fair point.
>>2566250>just move and use your skillsnot everyone is uni educated for some white collar job 'skills'. don't be a cunt we can't all grow up cushdy.
>>2566252Signed on but got sanctioned for something outside of my control.
Life in this country could be beautiful and it is for the lucky ones, but it's just a grim hell for anyone struggling. My days are so bleak now, this just exceeds depression to the point that I can't remember the last time I felt hope or joy.
I'm finally tapping out
>>2566284Well that sucks but maybe you can appeal it. Also it's not the end of the world to get sanctioned right?
>>2566250>If you're white just go to some random SEA country and use your skills, get some basic white collar job, marry some local upper middle chick and their family will set you up for lifeThat's a good cure for incels and failsons after university but SEA jobs will absolutely crush you with >45 hours of work per week + horrible commute, and you will live the rest of your life with someone that will only loves you because you are white and you offer free immigration to the First World.
>>2566343> and you will live the rest of your life with someone that will only loves you because you are white and you offer free immigration to the First World.nah, that's pretty common yea but you might just meet an britainboo or whatever you would call that.
Not as uncommon as you'd think, but also probably not that useful for anyone on this site.
>>2566284I know you don't want to hear this but don't kill yourself. I have been where you have been, not in the same way but I have hit rock bottom. You can rebuild your life and make something of it.
I would try headnig here;
https://www.acommuneinthenorth.org.uk/Anarchist commune in Doncaster. I can't speak on behalf of them but if anyone has a bed you can rest on, food you can eat, and work you can do it will be them. Stay strong comrade.
>>2566179people get addicted to alcohol as well
why isnt that banned?
>>2566215>im a loser and its everyone else's faulta story as old as time…
The EHRC (Equalities and Human Rights Commission), headed by Baroness Falkner (on record stating she opposes LGBT rights because of her Islamic beliefs), have today finally released new updated guidance on trans issues, after various failings with previous guidance.
The new updated guidance says trans people should be banned from ALL bathrooms and sexed spaces, going even further than previous reports.
The new report explicitly states trans people shouldn't be allowed into spaces at odd with their sex at birth, because of the court ruling on single sex spaces.
But it also goes further and says they shouldn't be allowed to use spaces matching their birth sex either, because apparently a trans woman using male facilities could cause emotional and psychological upset to cis men, and trans men using women's facilities could cause likewise upset to cis women.
So apparently cis people are so fragile and emotionally harmed by seeing a trans person, that trans people cannot use spaces for either their birth sex or their acquired sex in law.
Where will trans people piss and shit now? I guess some progressive big city businesses and bars have gender neutral bathrooms. Often there's disabled facilities, but then that takes resources away when disabled people may actually need them.
In most situations, there is simply now no legal way for a trans person to piss, as the new guidance will be applied.
In other news, after the BBC bias report claimed that the BBC is institutionally pro-trans, the institution has attempted to rectify this by already issuing new guidelines.
From now on, anti-transgender and gender critical activists must be referred to as women's rights activist's, women's campaigners, and as feminists.
You cannot use language calling them anti-trans or gender critical even if they call themselves that.
This is all part of the the effort to rectify "pro-trans bias" by portraying anti-trans activists in a misleading, inaccurate and more positive light.
As a trans person with chronic pain and health problems to boot I fucking detest this island and the way it treats us.
>>2567292
Please explain to me how my existence is misogynistic? Do you think I am a child groomer?
>>2567320
>councillers
>>2567279how is this going to lower my rent
>>2567304
>"My identity"
Not my identity, my existence.
I'm perceived as a trans woman regardless of my sense of identity.
I can no more choose not to be trans than anyone else can choose not to be gay, or not to be black.
But even that said, yes "identities" are also protected under the Equalities Act.
For example, being of a certain faith, or a vegan, or now even being a transphobe is a protected identity in the UK. Do you oppose that?
>Yes, it's misogynistic bullshit and no more real than a Furry wolf man is a fucking dog.
Gender dysphoria is a real condition. You can literally identify difference in brain structure in trans people, it's biological fact. A biological fact TERFs refuse to accept, because the science doesn't agree with your ideology.
Let me state a few facts:
<Studies involving MRI scans of the brain shown differences in putamen volume and cortical thickness in trans people. With the volume and thickness being closer to the sex they identify with than what was typical for their natal sex.
<Studies on the hypothalamus, a region related to sex hormone regulation, has found cell cluster sizes (INAH-3) were closer in trans people to the sex they identified with than to the norm for their natal sex.
<The superior longitudinal fasciculus (SLF) in the brains of trans people is much closer in structure to that of their identified sex than of their birth sex.
<These were all true even in cases of trans individuals who did not take hormone or other medical treatments.
How can TERFs explain that without denying material science?
Do you believe in "boy souls" and "girl souls" that match with outward physical appearance or chromosomes but not with the brain structure, or some other such nonsense?
The above doesn't even account for the fact that yes, you literally can change the biology of the body via hormonal treatments which does in fact alter sexual characteristics. Do you deny that?
The rest of your post is just garbled transphobic nonsense about how trans people are all child sex predators who force lesbians to date them and other such nonsense not worth addressing.
>>2567338
I've already answered this nonsense twice before. See previous threads.
>>2567335why do all the trans people I know and have met turn out to be sexual predators or fascists?
>>2567339Really? I don’t remember seeing anything other than cope. But if you have a real answer to the Staniland Question then I’m sure you could repeat it
>>2567335>equalities actactually, the EA2010 is the statutory law which overrides the GRA2004, which protected transgender people in particular.
>You can literally identify difference in brain structure in trans people, it's biological fact. theres no such thing as "girl" and "boy" brains.
>the only way to be a "real" gender is to be biologically transformed into onemore essentialism
>>2567341Meet many transgender neonazi paedophiles day to day to we? Where oh where do you socialise?
No comment on the medical studies regarding difference in brain structure of trans individuals?
>>2567346am i allowed to be transgender even if i dont have a special brain?
>>2567346thats a different com-anon, I dont have anything to say about it because I agree with you on it really.
It doesnt change the fact everytime ive extended an olive branch/tried to get along with trans people in the UK they turn out to be crypto-nazis or people who get off on hyper-sexualization + predatory behavior.
Its obviously a generalization but its hard not to notice patterns after being burned 5+ times like this over decades.
owen jones status?
This thread is always such an excellent illustration of why porky-controlled media and government have played an absolute blinder by bigging up the final solution to the transhumanist question.
>>2567345Funny how outward sexual dimorphism is such a fundamental point for transphobes, yet when the medical research shows that objectively and factually trans people have neurological features we can materially measure that are closer to their identified sex than natal sex, suddenly you deny sexual dimorphism exists.
Why do you hate materialism and science when it disagrees with your ideology? When the cult belief and science are at odds, shouldn't you choose the science?
>>2567232Because you can have a pint without being an alkie; the vast majority do! If you take Heroin the vast majority at least develop a temporary physical dependency.
>>2567371
I also dont subscribe to this 'my brain is trans' nonsense, their is at some level a decision and choice in this matter.
I get the feeling liberal-trans progressives have completely thrown out any notion of free will, which isnt conductive to building a mass political movement.
If you're going to big shrug this as 'essential' then what seperates a trans persons brain from a transphobes? Is the transphobe just inherently reactionary or is their more to it than that?
>>2567352i dont consider myself particularly transphobic; i just think that gender identity is bigger than "brains", as we might see from antiquity, and not just from modern pathologies, e.g. herodotus' "histories" (425 B.C.):
>The Scythians who plundered the temple were punished by the goddess [celestial venus/aphrodite] with the female sickness, which still attaches to their posterity. They themselves confess that they are afflicted with the disease for this reason, and travellers who visit Scythia can see what sort of a disease it is. Those who suffer from it are called Enarees.<book 1, paragraph 105these "enarees" were scythian priests who would behave as women, comparable to the later cult of cybele (magna mater) whose male priests would act as women (e.g. such as the roman emporer elagabalus, who reigned 218-222). but other roman gender-bending included nero's marriage to sporus, a young boy turned makeshift "wife" by nero. gender here appeared less essential and more affective (masculine/feminine), as opposed to later ideas, such as those youre promoting with brains. transgender identity as such appears to be entirely modern (20th century), with the first recorded case being lili elbe (1882–1931), which to me, makes this an historical phenomenon rather than simply biologically determined. trying to locate its essence mistakes subject for object. but these are the limits of science.
Tbh some substances are incredibly moreish, that's all. I used to do a bit of cocaine in my early 20s and after it starts wearing down I always felt like you wanted a bit more, but had the willpower to say enough was enough after 2 or 3 lines tops.
The issue is that balance between willpower and the chemical urge. The harder the drug, the stronger the urge, the harder it is to have the will to overcome and say it's enough.
I don't think most Brits could be trusted to have sufficient willpower to overcome that urge, and with drugs constantly getting stronger and being mixed with all kinds of weird new shit, the willpower required constantly increases too.
>>2567391
Unironically people do die from caffeine ODs. Nobody has ever died directly from weed.
>>2567405
Funny how the pro-ana poster is comparing trans people to anorexia.
Do you also believe gay people are deranged evil cultists for wanting equal rights? Or only trans people?
Are gay men also sexual predators and child abusers, or only trans people?
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/communists-will-fight-recognition-womens-sex-based-rights-across-trade-unions-partyLovely article by the truly most in-touch and youthful social democratic party in Britain.
>>2567338Fuck off rightoid paedo.
Holy fuck why do they shill Paddington Bear on the TV constantly, especially in anything royal related? It's just so fucking weird.
>>2567512>Lovely article by the truly most in-touch and youthful social democratic party in Britain.Any time I see anything by the CPB I take one more step towards Bordigism.
>>2567512Can someone explain to me why the British left has an anti trans problem? Even Cockshott is a transphobe. How did these brainworms emerge, and why specifically Britain?
>>2567618Because the UK conditions everyone to hate each other
>thread is about the equality act and anorexia
oh know, your least favorite personality disorder retard is back.
Anon who wanted to kill themself, please kill this tard instead. thanks.
Welsh people are so fun and cool. Probably best in these islands. what a legend.
tfw not a welsh comrade with fun accent :( :( :(
https://youtu.be/VMfyW1ZvBVg?t=2046>>2567512The YCL's membership has dropped by half if not more because of all of this and they have lost several branches. How do they stem the bleeding? DOUBLE DOWN.
Also they did say at one point they "Stand with their Trans Comrades", whatever that means.
>>2567806It's very weird. They'll release two dozen Rowling & Linehan-esque statements throughout the year saying trans people are mentally ill freaks who are a threat to women, but then during pride they'll flip the switch and say they stand with trans people and get slaughtered in the replies. What is their endgame???
And I still laugh at that footage of the YCL cosying up with police after doing their little balaclava wearing black bloc style march too. It's all just a LARP to them. A big ol clown brigade.
The destruction of the CPB is the only credible task before the British proletariat.
Keir Starmer could be a mid tier PM if he deported the lot of them to Afghanistan for their cringeworthy behaviour. Good right-wing press headlines, deporting "communists", though admittedly MI5 might be upset to lose their dumbest agents and MI6 might be upset that MI5 agents are muscling in on their territory.
Anonymous Corbyn allies (most likely Independent group types) are leaking to Sky accusations that Zarah is an "ultra-leftist" because she's communicating with various socialist and communist (mostly Trotskyist & Cliffite) parties.
https://news.sky.com/story/sultana-accused-by-corbyn-allies-of-encouraging-ultra-leftists-to-disrupt-your-party-conference-13473022Reposting because I fucked up the first post
>>2568540These fucking leaking Scabs need to be stopped.
>>2568342
The UK did not have a serious socialist movement lmao, it had a bunch of Labour aligned LARPers and deranged cultists. The highest points of the British Left have been a protectonist socdem economic strategy pushed by a literal aristocrat as a temporary solution to a balance of payments crisis, a council that put up funny posters, and a council that wouldn't pass a legal budget. Let them come in their legions, and they will be met!
The great "what could have been" is whether we could've turned an arms company into a calculator manufacturer, or Labour could've desperately dragged out the arrival of neoliberalism until 1984 like Muldoon did in New Zealand.
Eurocommunists have more credibility than anyone on the British "left".
This problem goes all the way down: Britain has had about 2 actual socdems in its history too, everyone else is just a different part of the Labour fan club. Britain is not a country of thinkers or doers, it's a country of anoraks, wonks, and wankers. you want to be an anorak.
You start with an unworkable premise and you say utterly deranged things in an attempt to prop it up. I love to play this game but: let's say you're entirely right about transgenderism. Fine, great. You're still a joke if you think Britain is the only western country that had a serious socialist movement that survived into the 1980s/90s. Or, indeed, if you really take those dismal, failing, labour-party-orbiting losers seriously.
It would be less embarrassing and do less damage to your general credibility to just say "the bourgeois white feminists at the guardian are right on this one even if they all lied and said corbyn was antisemitic, sorry but it's true. stopped clock."
>>2568342
>Still love how you disingenious retards still can't actually argue a coherent point and always go running to the mods like pathetic little shameless cowards you are.
it's because nobody wants you here.
How bad is your personality disorder that you are not able to see that (you) are the problem? What is it exactly that's wrong with you, what do the doctors say?
>>2568540labour careerists are trying to create labour2.0 to give a nice soft landing and continued career to their mates after labour falls apart.
>>2568650stones in glasshouses lad, carefull
>>2568551It's up to Corbyn to do it
>>2567618compared to where?
>>2568818All of continental Europe.
Yet to hear a so-called "Gender Critical Socialist" answer why there are so many zionists in their movement.
>>25688491) Uncle Kemi has literally no chance of ever having power, you'd know this if you wherent a swiveled eyed loon
2) the other com-poster was clearly referencing May.
Really what's up with the TERF thing. This dude is like the most performative male feminist I've ever encountered. Even worse than Hasan Abi, but the same time he hates minorities and trans people kek.
What total faggots bongs are. Truly insufferable.
According to Virginia Giuffre, Prince Andrew forced her as a child sex slave to have sex with him on multiple occasions.
Why isn't he on trial facing life imprisonment at the least?
And according to her newly published memoirs, she was also also raped while a child sex slave by an infamous but unnamed former PM (presumed to be Blair), who during sex repeatedly choked her unconscious and left her fearing she was going to be murdered during the intercourse.
Why is there no police investigation into this? We truly live in a paedophile ran nation…
>>2568826
I'm purity testing communism by suggesting that maybe Lenin was a tad more radical than Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn, 2nd viscount Stansgate, a guy who's chief ambition was a Labour government half as radical as the Sveriges socialdemokratiska arbetarepartiand who sat under cabinet collective responsibility as the IMF rolled neoliberalism over what was supposed to be a third rate imitation of social democracy.
and perhaps two touches more radical than "feminists" who think the greatest issue women face today is seeing a Hon in Marks and Spencer.
Well forgive me, but when I snort I want coke. Some baby powder is inevitable, but your posts give readers the kind of nasal hit previously only enjoyed by prince Andrew.
>>2568852I'd also like to know why they're only 'critical' of trans people's gender and are completely fine with heteronormativity/etc in every other way
>>2568862>What total faggots bongs are. Truly insufferable.that's an american. was caught z posting.
A second TERF has quit your party
>>2569463i'm thinking this is a jump-before-pushed situation for a lot of this lot. they're leaving now under their own terms before having to have the political embarrassment of their positions within the party being marginal (as in, no official positions of power outside of being a sitting MP) or untenable.
>>2569463>>2569545>A source told the New Statesman that Mohamed’s resignation speaks to a wider alienation of Muslim communities, who are increasingly not joining Your Party. They said this comes in the context of an increase in attacks on the Independent Alliance MPs from ultra-left activists. <One source pointed to Sultana’s suggestion that there is no place for socially conservative views in a left-wing party as being particularly damaging. In an interview with the New Statesman in September, Sultana said: This is a progressive, socialist party… my job as a parliamentarian first and foremost, as well as someone who is part of Your Party, is to speak up to the most marginalised voices.” She added: “Anyone who feels like they can’t subscribe to…these principals, then [Your Party] might not be for them.” Ah yes. This is ultra-leftism. Pure nuttery. Who'd even say such a thing. Probably wasn't even focus grouped.
>>2569556Sounds like your party is cleaning house, no issue here.
Anyone watch the Channel 4 Lucy Letby doco? Thoughts?
I was in two minds before but, like, the more information i learn the more it seems she was fit up to blame for years of austerity/scrabbling NHS suits and this. Worst part is it'll happen all over again in a few years to decades.
>>2569859>and taught them how to batheI would argue that most of Europe is still learning tbh.
>>2569640Yeah I also believe she's a victim of austerity tbh, there is something fishy going on with it - the UK courts in general arent prole courts, they are theater for the proles and actually useful for the upper class and seem to love giving nonces suspended sentences.
William Brooke Joyce (24 April 1906 – 3 January 1946), nicknamed Lord Haw-Haw, was an American-born fascist and Nazi propaganda broadcaster during the Second World War. After moving from New York to Ireland and subsequently to England, Joyce became a member of Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists (BUF) from 1932, before finally moving to Germany at the outset of the war where he took Nazi German citizenship in 1940.[2
Joyce recorded his final broadcast on 30 April 1945, during the Battle of Berlin.[3
https://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw'sLastBroadcast.mp3Interesting to hear this
>>2569859unfortunately i can see British Thanksgiving becoming a thing
created by marketers and retail firms.
>Thanksgiving was once a holiday Britons knew only from American films, but a growing appetite for US cuisine, from Southern-style comfort food to pumpkin pie, is driving a rise in UK celebrations.
>Retailers and restaurants are reporting increased sales and bookings in the run-up to the American holiday, boosted by British enthusiasm for US flavours and a rising number of American expats now living in the UK.
>At Pipers farm in Devon, sales of turkeys and related Thanksgiving products rose 38% in the fortnight leading up to Thanksgiving last year compared with the two weeks before. The farm said it had expanded its range of sides and turkey sizes this year to meet what it expects will be even higher demand.
>Data from the online retailer Ocado shows searches for Thanksgiving have jumped 440% year on year, while pumpkin spice is up more than 550%. Ocado’s sales data also indicates American food has grown in popularity among shoppers: sales of Herr’s buffalo blue cheese curls are up 410% year on year, and Newman’s Own ranch dressing by more than 202%.
>Research commissioned by the firm found 42% of gen Z and millennials say they have attended a Thanksgiving meal in the UK, and 16% plan to attend or host the holiday for the first time this November. More than half (53%) believe US holidays such as Thanksgiving and American-style Halloweens are becoming bigger fixtures in the British calendar.
>Dan Elton, the chief customer officer at Ocado Retail, said: “We’re seeing this love of American food culture translating into what people are buying … from ranch dressing and marshmallows, to mac and cheese.”
>According to the market research company Mintel, interest in American-style food has risen sharply in the past two years, particularly among younger consumers. More than half of British adults (58%) have ordered or are interested in ordering southern US dishes such as Louisiana gumbo. That figure has grown from 52% in early 2024 to 67% by mid-2025, peaking at 81% among gen Z – those born approximately between 1997 and 2012. In the same period, one in five Britons visited an American-style restaurant, rising to nearly one in three younger consumers.
>“UK interest in Thanksgiving reflects a growing appetite for American food,” said Trish Caddy, the associate director of food service research at Mintel. “It’s less cultural adoption, more culinary celebration. This taps into a wider experience-driven eating trend where people seek themed menus, social connection and limited-edition offerings.”
>London restaurant CUT at 45 Park Lane has extended its Thanksgiving service in response to a surge in bookings. “We’re now doing around 180 covers throughout the day and have opened Bar 45 for the whole week, serving Thanksgiving-inspired snacks like pecan pie, turkey croquettes and bacon-wrapped dates,” said the culinary director, Elliott Grover.
>At Whole Foods Market UK, the demand around Thanksgiving now rivals the buildup to Christmas. “The moment our online ordering for the holiday goes live, we see a rush of customers eager to secure their meal,” said Izzie Peskett, the head of marketing. “It’s become a real occasion here, whether people are hosting American friends or simply recreating that classic, comforting spread at home.”
>While American expats remain part of the audience, Peskett says curiosity among British shoppers has grown rapidly. “Thanksgiving is now less about where you’re from and more about embracing the warmth and generosity of the occasion,” she said.
>“Our customers come for the quality and authenticity of classic dishes, from pumpkin and pecan pies, cornbread stuffing, green beans, sweet potatoes and, of course, our organic turkeys.”https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/nov/01/rise-in-uk-thanksgiving-celebrations-driven-by-growing-appetite-for-us-foods-retailers-say >>2570002Disgusting, thanksgiving food always seemed like gross slop to me as well
>>2570016I have to attack the source, how can I not? If it really happened as the tabloids reported then sure it's bad
>>2570016i really just can't bring myself to care about this.
>>2570016>>2569746the story is framed in a deeply misleading way. it's really there to play up the assault element, when the relevant information is
>Outlining the facts, Jacqueline Whiting, prosecuting, said: 'The defendant and the victim in this matter had been friends but had a falling out which resulted in an incident on the October 27, 2024 whereby abusive and homophobic text messages were sent to the victim causing her alarm and distress.the assault is, in a certain sense, irrelevant. it's only played up to make you sympathize with the convicted woman. what actually happened is that a woman messaged a friend that she'd had a falling out with, and that ex-friend reported them for sending malicious communications. it is noted that the messages contained slurs, but the messages themselves were not read or shown in full, so it's impossible to cast any real judgement on their contents.
you might go "ah, that's taking the piss" but a lot of UK law really turns on the question of "did someone care enough to complain about it?"
you will of course go "this proves britain is insane!!", but it's retroactive cope. you want the judge to be some kind of massively woke type upset about slurs, rather than the law just going "someone complained about your behavior, so you have to be punished"
the emphasis on the slur is a bit of a red herring, a tabloid writing trick to make you associate things which are quite unrelated. ("Queen dies after Hong Kong handover" is not an
untrue headline, but it is a deeply misleading one…)
How come basically nobody in politics is pointing out or capitalising on the fact basically 3 in 4 male Reform members under 35 LARP as, dress as and mimic the hairstyle and mustache of Oswald Mosley? Or just straight up copy their hairstyle of the Hitler Youth?
Surely that'd be a very easy win for anyone, especially when there is so much footage of these freaks nowadays?
Hell, the current UKIP leader now unironically wears a NSDAP style armband only in purple and has been caught on video seig heiling to remixes of every cocaine fiends favourite Ibiza club classic "L'amour Toujours"? Where is the media shock over that?
>>2570079because the political elite has decided fascism is an inevitability.
>>2570079the media have been giving reform such an easy time the past year. but I've noticed increase criticism of reform councils (not that their hardcore voters care just fuelled by chimpanzee monkey man energy) there was article recently about nigel farage being a fascist in his youth, and the head of Reform in Wales has got banged up for being 'pro-Russia'. we will probably get an expose of these incels and chinlets at some point.
>>2570084> and the head of Reform in Wales has got banged up for being 'pro-Russia'it was a bit more than that, no? wasn't he doing cash-for-access?
>>2570016>In b4 attack sourceDon't post sources that regularly lie then lmao.
I wish Brexit hadn't made Americans realize that Britain isn't a nation of smug, refined, intelligent people and is in fact a dumber poorer colder shittier Mississippi with de-jure but not de-factp healthcare
I don't want to be associated with something so low status. It's embarrassing.
>>2547161You should be more concerned that despite getting that many anons and being filled with who you'd expect, it's still somehow less reactionary then these threads can be.
Greenspamming
Noun
A post about joining the Green Party on any vaguely left-wing post, regardless of content or context.
"No, stop the Greenspamming and work against the fascists instead of scavenging members off of a more left movement."
>>2571595Literally every time I mention YP to anyone they bring up the greens, it's true
>>2570424That would have happened even without Brexit, the nativists would keep wanting to leave and the economy still would have crashed and burned
>>2571595i've noticed they're running a campaign doing this atm. it's funny because they're too stupid to wait, so a Novara or Politics Joe segment will come out on Your Party and bellow will be full of greens trying to siphon interested people by pretending to be new members and etc. Really says it all for me, a whiff of popularity and they're already resorting to anything but trying to present leftist policy.
>>2571709The greens have presented substantially more leftist policy than YP (which officially still has no policies whatsoever, indeed it has no
name)
Good morning one and all.
Zarah Sultana is now *officially* listed as a Your Party MP by the House of Commons.
That's right - only Zarah Sultana - is YP's first and only MP so far.
So while I don't actually know the specific internal House of Commons mechanisms, the other YP MPs have at least been given the chance to register as such officially by parliament, and yet only Zarah has done so.
Why are Corbyn and the remaining 2 Gaza MPs actively choosing to hold off on registering as YP MPs?
It makes me speculate maybe Corbz and the 2 Gazaites will just quit YP since they think they can't make it Labour 2.0 and import their staffers and mates as the new party elites.
This is entirely speculation but I feel like now they're going to leave it to be solely Zarah's project while they remain as the Independent Group…
>>2571602That quote I got from Zarah Sultana's instagram comments just one guy replying to every Green with it.
>>2571982>That quote I got from Zarah Sultana's instagram comments just one guy replying to every Green with it.Based autism.
>>2572043Guy is German so I am not sure if its Autism or not.
>>2572050>GermanOf course it's autism anon that is the autism country.
Based Germ who has seen the horrors of a fully developed Green Party exposing himself on social media to save us poor and simple-minded islanders. I respect it.
>>2572083wow, you got £350 a month, congrats.
>>2572088Isn't it more like 350 a fortnight?
Well, the big one tbf is that they pay your rent (or part of).
>>2572088better than nothing!
do no work, get free money. a glitch in the system.
>>2572089you can get housing benefit for a council house which completely pays your rent. it can also subsidise private accommodation. the amount of benefits matters on what you claim and the benefit cap is around £400 a week, or £1,800 a month. if you compare benefits to the net pay for minimum wage, it can serve to be preferable based on various circumstances, hence "the benefits trap" where people can stay on it for decades.
>>2572089>Isn't it more like 350 a fortnight? Absolutely not, unless you can prove you're disabled (this will probably take months/years). Yes there is also housing benefit but that doesn't cover rent almost anywhere, unless you get a council house (you won't, for years).
I can't understand the complaining about benefits. If you think being on benefits is so great then why not quit your job, give up all your savings if you have any, and go down to the jobcentre cap in hand, I'm sure you'll be living the life of your dreams before long. It's just whining and complaining when you KNOW that being on benefits isn't actually good, it's shit, which is why you don't do it.
>>2572095more people would do it if it wasnt shameful
>>2572095Ah yes, i was confusing with disability.
Housing benefits can pay most all my rent, but i am lucky enough to have social housing. Dogshit system i'd rather it be council, but still better than being completely subject to the ravages of the market.
>>2572102>more people would do it if it wasnt shamefulDef this is a big aspect in some communities, it's incredibly harmful because it leads, in part, to like, people not even really understanding that they can get benefits and how, as well as not really being able to aks anyone.
>>2572091>do no work, get free money. a glitch in the system.IDK how it is now, but i found going to the jobcentre and all that more stressful than a lot of jobs i've had. I know it's only a day of going in there and some time searching+applying, but it is horrible on so many levels. I also imagine it gets exponentially worse to do the older you get, even if you get payed more.
>>2572091Honestly if you know how to game the system, you can easily be pulling like 30k+ a year in bennies. I've had housemates near double my full time wage while sitting around on bennies.
One of the reasons the UK benefits system doesn't work is because fraud is endemic and people who actually have disorders and issues get punished by the system because they don't play the game. It's a really perverse system where they don't really do any real investigations once you get benefits, but they make you jump through all these retarded, bad faith hoops to get them. This is why people with like ADHD only have a 30% success rate for PIP because they get stonewalled intitally due to the labyrinth of bullshit you have to go through (you will get 0 points for even answering the phone call the first time and if you turn up to IRL meeting say goodbye to PIP). So the system benefits fraudsters who know how to play the game (often have people literally on the inside telling them exactly what to say what keywords to hit etc, seen this with my own eyes with housemates and their friends who worked for DWP btw)
Anyway on the story of bennies scroungers
https://www.independent.co.uk/money/state-pension-boost-triple-lock-wages-tax-b2871161.html >>2572116the british bureaucracy is ridiculously incompetent; all public institutions in fact - prisoners are accidentally let free, NHS waiting lists are years long. i am extremely pessimistic about our state and fear that some tory strongman is going to come one day and have some "tough love" to reboot the system.
>>2572102Benefits fraud is literally endemic. I would make an easy bet if DWP hired PI's to actually investigate fraud, they could knock out at least a third of people claiming (would not be surprised if it would go as high as 2/3rds tbh). One of the people I knew was literally a LANDLORD while getting something like 2.6k a month in bennies and sitting in a 2 story council apartment in the center of the city, every time his bennies came in he would take it instantly out anything that wasn't bills and council rent in cash so couldn't be traced.
I've had to literally in the past had to rent a (illegally) sublet out council house, every time the PIP person was going to turn up me and the housemates had to bail, we also could never get anything delivered or mail sent there. (which would come to bite me in the ass down the line as a parking ticket that got sent to my old address turned into 1.6k fine down the line).
Of literally the dozens of people I know on benefits, only a few really deserve the benefits they are getting, the rest are just shameless grifters who see Bennies as free money while they go off and do cash in hand jobs, take from trash nothing then go to cash converters etc.
Meanwhile if you actually are properly autistic that going outside is too much of a sensory overload, or you are so ADHD you can't hold a job down longer than 3 months, or maybe you're even an actual drooling invalid, there is a very high chance you will score 0 points on PIP. It's actually almost ensured.
Because it's so front loaded with roadblocks, this weeds out the actual disabled people and just leaves the shameless people who have no problem going full Cartman.
What I've never understood is how so many people I know were able to game the system rack up so many diagnosis. It took 6 fucking YEARS for the UK to recognise my ADHD diagnosis so I could even get my meds, yet I know piece of shit hustlers who wracked up ADHD, BPD, NPD, DID, Autism, Anxiety blah blah while in reality, they're largely perfectly fine, just shameless. I wonder if it's actually diagnosis they wrack up as kids because they were shits in school.
>>2572118> i am extremely pessimistic about our state and fear that some tory strongman is going to come one day and have some "tough love" to reboot the system.Is that extreme pessimism? Even the optimists kind of see it as inevitable at this point.
The options are to get out when one can, hang around and fight to almost certainly lose, or make like that other anon and rope.
>>2572127>bennieswhat part of the country do people use this slang?
>>2572129pessimism, realism, whatever it is - we will eventually lose our welfare state and we'll all be put in the poor houses. worst part is that its going to be rightfully seen as common sense.
>>2572132What we called them in South Yorkshire.
>>2572102The average person complaining about benefit scroungers is absolutely shameless, or else they wouldn't post that shit on main.
>>2572103Well yeah if you have social housing it's liveable, still pretty shit though.
>>2572116Well I can't speak to that, from my experience the benefits people I've spoken to at work seem pretty clued up about people trying to say stuff that's not true. I'm sure people cheat benefits, maybe a lot of people, but I don't blame them, we should be mad at people cheating their millions in taxes.
>>2572118Yeah it's pretty woeful, I don't expect the government to help me with anything anymore, if I get seriously ill I'll go private.
>>2572127Loser behaviour to go around policing ill people. Yeah maybe they're 'not that ill' but they still obviously are ill enough not to work otherwise they would. You're just an idpol freak anyway so why should I care. You complain about how it's too hard to get benefits on one hand then how it's too easy on the other, make it make sense.
>>2572153why not just say "good for you" to the benefits scroungers instead of these stupid sob stories?
>>2572153>still obviously are ill enough not to work otherwise they would. Kek, they literally are working, look who makes up huge amounts of scaffolders or labourers or drug dealers.
>You complain about how it's too hard to get benefits on one hand then how it's too easy on the other, make it make sense.It's hard to get if you treat the system in good faith, if you know what keywords to say and how to functionally lie and play the system, it's very easy to cheat it, especially if you have friends that work for DWP and tell you exactly what to say. There are entire facebook groups around literally benefits cheating lmao.
>>2572159IDK what do you want me to say? I choose to have sympathy.
>>2572164Ok well sure, maybe some do cheat benefits and still work, whatever. I don't see how you want to make the system more fair so that only people you agree should have benefits should have more of them, and people you don't agree with should get less, like what are the steps to actually do that. PIs for the DWP, really? What for every claimant? How much do you think that would cost?
>>2572179>IDK what do you want me to say? I choose to have sympathy.sympathy for what? they are self-interested human beings who are getting free money; be glad, not sad.
>costlook at how much benefits currently cost the UK lol
>>2572185Yeah and how much is it going to add to the cost to hire tens of thousands (that might not even be enough) of full time PIs?
>>2572186the real issue is systematic.
its easier to give the public gibs than jobs.
its not cheaper, but this is the logic of capitalism.
>>2572179The issue is the system incentivises fraud, while punishes legitimate claimants, that is not a good system.
No, I'm not saying they should hire PI's, but there has to be a better way than this where if basically some very real disabilities have 30% approval rates, while literally damn near every drug leader you meet is sitting in a council paid apartment/house, is driving a Audi A5 while having another mobility car paid for by the Government, has full mobility, 2-3k bennies a month etc.
We will get to the point where the beneifts system will crash and burn, and what happens then? Disabled people get thrown to the wolves.
The current fraud detection system is quite literally, hand over your official paypal account, hand over your declared bank account? No more than 5k savings? there fine. Meanwhile crackdealer has 500k sitting in a Revolut account, or as the person I knew, was literally a landlord who had multiple homes in his parents name and his parents gave him the rent as cash while they pocketed like 20%.
Benefits fraud pisses me off because it's basically stealing from disabled people and proles.
How to fix it, I don't know, but there is something to be said how absolutely fucked the system is where people with disabilities are punished, while you have a near 10% fraud rate of UC with people claiming FROM OVERSEAS. It unironically needs to be more streamlined and centralised than whatever the fuck exists right now. Even dealing with the DVLA is an absolute bitch.
>>2572211naturally don't trust friedman lmao. Maybe a more functional system, but what about people who can't work? Autismos, severe adhd, schizos etc? What happens to them?
>>2572217>dont trust friedmanwhat hes saying is that its better to pay people to work than to pay them not to work, which is what benefits does by design.
>autismostheyre the real claimants youre talking about.
>>2572218But if you only get benefits to bring you up to say minimum wage if you work. What about people who actually can't work? What happens to them in this system?
Yes, benefits system incentivises people not to work (it's actually batshit that up north, you are almost most assured better off on bennies than working full time, like I said, I had housemates who sat around with bennies 2/3rds higher than my monthly wage) but the issue is you actually have people who can't work, you can't just throw those people into a grinder.
>>2572226well lets say that theres two types of benefit:
- working benefit
- unemployment benefit
the working benefit naturally pays more
>>2572195I mean yeah ok, I prefer to give jobs than benefits too but that's not even an option right now.
>>2572202Ok I dunno what to say to you, sure rich people shouldn't be able to claim benefits but with things as they are I would rather just focus on tax cheats and so on
>>2572211Sounds incoherent, there's not going to be any kind of amount you can give people that's enough for them to live on that's also going to be cheaper than the current system.
>>2572227So if you're disabled you can go fuck yourself? Also again how can you possibly save money with this system compared to now?
>>2572245we have tax gradients. say that a working benefit fund is around £20,000 (total salary + benefits) and so you will receive this tax-free so long as you work (the difference made up by the government shouldny be more than 5k - thus, people may be getting paid more in total, while working, while being less expensive to the state).
>>2572248separate benefit for disabled people
>save moneyi explain above that the difference between what meets the threshold of the benefits fund will be less. thus, if you make £19k salary, you'll get £1k benefits. £5k benefits for £15k salary, etc.
>>2572245>Ok I dunno what to say to you, sure rich people shouldn't be able to claim benefits but with things as they are I would rather just focus on tax cheats and so onI agree, just benefits thing pisses me off because I lived with absolute assholes who would throw cash around (one was a literal landlord) while ripping off benefits while I worked full time, and they often explained the tricks of the trade to me. It's genuinely shameless the level people stoop too to max out benefits. When you read Reddit and people say "it's so hard to get PIP so it can't be happening" they just can't imagine how fucking shameless people like my housemates were. One literally jumped ontop of a incoming slowly stopping train as a fake "suicide" to get sectioned because his PIP review was coming up and he wanted the full mobility lmao. Other housemate would fake suicide by overdosing on paracetamol then calling an ambulance once every 6 months. Once the PIP review was over, it was back to drug dealing, going on trash nothing and taking everything to cash converters, I would often come back to a flat on a friday/saturday night (finished work at 11pm) with my housemates hanging with hookers, and lines of coke and complete randos.
But yes, I also agree that Tax avoidance is a much larger issue, another HUGE one is of course that huge amount of UK farming is basically just subsidy farming from the Government, other is of course all the brazen money laundering/tax avoidance fronts up and down high streets. Oh and of course FUCKING TRIPLE LOCK WHY DOES THIS EXIST?!
My big fear with the scale of benefits fraud though, is that when it blows up (and it will) it will be used to destroy the entire welfare system and fuck genuinely disabled people.
>>2572262Ok but how is this really different from now? Anyone making decent money from benefits already has to be classed as disabled.
>>2572274>Ok but how is this really different from now?are you dumb blud?
you dont get benefits if you work, so i suggest paying people benefits to work.
>>2572287You already can get benefits if you work but on low income though. Also under this system what will happen to people who aren't classed as disabled but aren't working for whatever reason? Many of them have serious issues, if they had all benefits cut they would just end up on the street.
>>2572314the current salary threshold is around £10,000 and only if you work less than 16 hours a week
>Also under this system what will happen to people who aren't classed as disabled but aren't working for whatever reason?if you can work but choose not to, thats your fault.
the difference is that i am offering a way out.
what is your proposal?
>>2572211Good lord get this neolib rubbish out of here. The reason people are on UC is because they don't have jobs in the first place!
>>2572226Disabled people would have zero income, on which they'd pay the maximum negative tax rate (e.g. get the biggest refund) even if unemployed.
How can we prevent the rise of American style Christian evangelical nationalism in the UK?
Half these freaks have never been to a church or opened a Bible yet use religion to legitimise their fashy ideology, and go around waving crosses at Tommy Robinson protests and spray painting them on roundabouts
What is the response to this without being labeled a triggered fedora tipper?
>>2572462>Half these freaks have never been to a church or opened a Bible yet use religion to legitimise their fashy ideology, and go around waving crosses at Tommy Robinson protests and spray painting them on roundabouts Wait til you get real Evangelicals who go to church multiple times a week. It's probably only a matter of time. I'm surprised it hasn't already taken off there. They got this shit down to a science, pretty soon your whole life revolves around the church.
>>2572462Burn churches that are publicly known to have defended pedophiles
>>2572480There are some megachurches and such here in Britain, but it's nowhere near the scale of the US, Australia, etc.
Evangelicalism just clashes with traditional British Christianity so much that it's mostly limited to appealing to fringe nutters and immigrants who come from societies where evangelicalism is already popular.
At least that was the case, recently the Americanisation is starting to creep in hard as a component of all the other far right grifter bs and evangelicalism is a part of that.
>>2572498i'm from australia and i've never heard of or even seen a megachurch in my life, maybe you're thinking of canada?
>>2572509Like the biggest evangelical megachurch corporation in the world is Hillsong, which comes from Australia.
If Google is accurate then there's 28 Hillsong evangelical megachurches within Australia.
>>2572498>At least that was the case, recently the Americanisation is starting to creep in hard as a component of all the other far right grifter bs and evangelicalism is a part of that.It's because most people for a long time in the developed world have only been "culturally Christian" at best. I think the more surface level the traditionally Christianity becomes, the more the Evangelical Modern Pop Christianity has a chance.
Christianity is an insane religion if you even believe in it at all. The only real Christians are by definition insane. I always found the fence-sitting "cultural Christians" the weirdest of all.
>>2572529>The only real Christians are by definition insane.I was raised in a pretty conservative traditional small village high Anglican environment, and forced to attend church weekly until I could move out from my parents.
And holy shit is it nuts. It drives you slowly insane, It's the same few cherry picked famous verses and classic stories and parables to match whatever moral lesson the priest wants to share, explained to you like you're intellectually disabled, interspersed with whatever hymns the priest likes.
But all that part is really just for show. It's all really about the coffee mornings and biscuits afterwards, where all the bitchiness and pettyness comes out.
A dozen or so snobby, sutck up, middle age, middle class housewives all trying to one up each other and climb the social hierarchy, all vying for positions of authority and prestige within church committees, all of them are on the PTA, all want to host the best garden parties, etc.
Meanwhile their husbands are off talking about football, woke gone mad, their model train collections, home brewing beers, etc.
And then you have those working class Reformoids and new to the village ethnic families, fresh to the church and who sit by themselves, not included in any of the cliques yet, trying to edge up and in, and find acceptence and join in the insanity of the petty WASP cult life drama too.
>>2572529>The only real Christians are by definition insane.Any real ideologue is insane. Think of the insane neo-nazi or the Japanese Red Army. Most people are pragmatic but real ideologues are always insane. Lenin was seen as not a real ideological Marxist.
>>2572671tbh i don't put too much stock in belief. belief is cheap. many americans are dumb enough to naively believe that god is vaguely in their corner, but unwilling to get off their asses and go to church.
(the advantage of looking at it this way is you can compare belief systems. most political ideologues are exactly the same! even electoralists are rarely willing to actually go out and campaign for their electoral party!)
>>2572682I think belief is all there is to it. That is what our Lord and Saviour Christ said.
>>2572682unstated part: instead of beliefs, i value actions. if you go to church without believing a word of it, you're still surrendering your valuable time to the idea. if you actually campaign for the labour party, that's much more meaningful than being their strongest defender on twitter. the former is work, the latter is just the hobby of arguing online with a branded skin.
>>2572684That may be true theologically, but we won't find out who's right and who's wrong on that count until we're all dead (and even then…), meanwhile in terms of sociology we can make testable predictions now. "Who believes in god?" is easy to fake. "Who's willing to get up at 9am on Sunday to listen to some bloke blather on about god?" on the other hand, is going to invite far fewer shirkers.
(This is one of the reason weirdos like the Amish survive. The stronger the demands you make of your group members, the
more they commit to the group because all the fakers are chased out. You can't fake going without modern technology for the hell of it. Meanwhile the squishy old national churches in Britain have all seen their membership go into freefall because they've accepted that people under 60 aren't going to believe in god and are only going to turn up for funerals and weddings.)
Honestly of all Christian traditions the Gnostics are the only ones who remain logically consistent.
They recognise material reality is full of suffering and have an answer for the problem of evil, they have an explanation as to why Jesus did nothing most of his life, they don't believe Mary had a virgin birth, they have texts on why Judas did what he did, etc.
Basically any gotcha you have about the inconsistences of mainstream Christianity, their theology has a simple and obvious answer for.
Of course, Gnosticism is also extremelly dualistic and idealist on a level beyond any religion except I suppose Zoroastrianism.
So what is zarah sultanas plan
>>2572693 The fuck that has to do with America muslim faggot?
>>2572694Anglicans are certainly fake-ass Christians no doubt. "Lord-temporal" fucking faggots. Jesus Christ has no consideration for you.
>>2572695Read thread title champ
>>2572339Leaving the system how it is now would be better than anything that's been presented by you anti benefits people. There aren't even enough jobs for everyone in the first place.
>>2572693Zarah wants a socially progressive transgender hyper-democratic social-democratic/trotskyite/councilcom coalition. Every decision is taken by 10 layers of representitve worker's councils over the course of 5 years.
Contrast that with Corbyn's plan for a 100% Halal sharia approved ultra-hierarchical social-democratic Labour Party 2.0. Every decision is taken by a secret committe of ex-Labour staffers and Gaza MPs with no accountability to the membership.
>>2572701Inter imperialist war as usual
You bongs are not prepared for any non-bong posting whereas we burgers are prepared for the majority of the posts in our general to be from non-burgers.
>>2572462Bring back New Atheism, start heavily pushing civicism, push for more police and more harsh sentencing towards antisocial behaviour and stop glazing fucking Islam.
The "Muh christanity" shit is entirely in response to collapsing civic norms, rising antisocial behaviour and Islam. Christian Nationalism is a fucking oxymoron (christianity is a universal religion and jesus says all christians are of the same nationhood) so this shit has nothing to do with religion. They view
Christianity
>Be nice to neighbour>Be civic>Western traditionIslam
>Be a terrorist>Be Arab ingroup loyalist >Littering>Money laundering turkish barbers taking over high streets.>>2572509Did you live under a rock? The half the Liberal/National party are Hillsong psychopaths (the other half being Opus Dei like Abbott, Brandis etc). Scott Morrison famously. Australian media constantly talked about Hillsong when I was there in the 2010s.
>>2572693Bunch of incoherent bullshit that makes only sense to GreenandPleasant and these types of tiktokkers.
Zarah is just a typical smug entitled student politics type. Listen to her BBC radio interview which is truly cringe inducing.
>>2572701Corbyn never wanted a party to begin with, he wanted a broad coalition between economically ""left"" wing-ish activist groups and parties to push a coordinated left wing position on foreign policy and economics.
Either way, if the Left truly comes out of this period with no serious rival to the Labour party beyond the Greens, I think it's a pretty good indicator that the UK Left is functionally dead, completely unworkable and will never, ever form a coherent Socialist political movement.
>Major parties completely collapsing due to incompetency>Cost of living crisis>Gilded era inequality>Very basic shit like rubbish not even being picked up by binmen>Services all imploded>Left still squabbling over gender shit and who's anti-zionist enough.If Reform has a policy to drag every single UK registered party leftist into a gulag then light that Gulag on fire I will openly support it. The UK left really needs a complete and total reset.
>>2573046Clearly you're doing so much better than the organised left by posting 'laugh at the weirdos' shit.
>>2573049I spent 20 years of my life trying to organise the left.
After 2020/Covid I realised the Western Left is entirely a lost fucking cause and I now just laugh as we spiral towards barbarism and watching everything I said in those 20 years come to pass as the left still flails around like complete and total fucking retards.
Lets be real here, we had several hundred thousand british deaths, we had over a million US deaths, all due to shitty civicism and health and economic reasons, and the entire left spent this period crying about a criminal antisocial crackhead and rioting over identity politics.
If you put a button on top of a table that said "Fully automated luxury space Communism, like literally Star Trek" and a button underneath the table "Throw a hissy fit over some idpol bullshit", the entire left would flip that table and smash that idpol button.
Do British leftists even remember the Preston model? No, of course not, it was buried under the mountain of idpol bullshit. The Left has a workable program on how to fix UK councils and it was forgotten, immediately, because of idpol.
Like I said, if reform seek to shove every registered leftist into a gulag, I will support the policy with all my being. We are literally in a moment where a serious organised left could literally easily hit 35%+ polling and the best the left has is riding the coat tails of The Greens, and notice it's entirely personality politics as well, what happens when Polanski eventually steps down like Corbyn? The project is gone.
>>2573055I'm sure that what the left really needs is a leader like you who openly hates everything left-wing.
>>2573057No I would be a terrible leader. I swear like a sailor irl and my mind goes blank under pressure in the moment.
I am very good though at being able to put myself in others shoes and step back from my ideological beliefs to look at a broader picture from multiple angles. I have predicted how campaigns flail and collapse, I have predicted how the left will act with near 100% accuracy for decades. The left are extremely predictable and guess what, I'm a fucking retard, if I can do this, think about all the people at MI5/Spycops who do this as their job and then use it to influence the left to go in certain directions.
>like you who openly hates everything left-wing.I don't actually. I'm strongly environmentalist and I believe in Proletarianism, I believe in Marxist Leninism adapted for a British material, social and historical context and I believe we need to rapidly shift towards a largely centralised planned economy that is aimed at nation building and massive scale decarbonization.
I just think the current left is not actually the "left" but some bizarre US brained post-modernist civil rights movement that skinned the actual left and wears its skin parading around in some form of grotesque masquerade.
>>2573046>>2573055>>2573060you think you're smarter than everyone else but your program amounts to a synthesis of clement attlee* and rump blairite social views with homeopathic amounts of dated socialist verbiage. bring back christopher hitchens! don't press for left politicians to be as anti-zionist as possible, you'll drive away the 3 remaining labour zionists! demand the preston model - workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but the 2017 labour manifesto!!
*the real one, not the one where we pretend he's a socdem. read david edgerton's "the rise and fall of the british nation" for more info. tl;dr labour has never been socialist and was socdem only for about 15 minutes in the early-mid 1970s, otherwise it's a national developmentalist party which pursued nationalisation only out of pragmatism (pre-1970s), utterly confused and missing opportunities left and right (1980s) or a sort of gaping void of everything wrong with the world. (post-1994)
>>2573055>I spent 20 years of my life trying to organise the left. obviously shit at it then werent you.
>>2573041>Bring back New Atheismlmao yeh support the gigazionists.
Iran has been sponsoring Scottish Independence twitter accounts. Personally, I support Iran and the freedom of Scotland. Guess there is some neeks in here who are still unionists, sad.
>>2573074look, the Regressive Left might not like it but Israel is The Only Democracy In The Middle East and we have to support their biblically ordained claims to the land of Israel, which are
in the Bible, the foundational book of Western Civilization, against the Islamic saracen hordes and their incomprehensible mutually-contradictory Islamofascist Religious gobbledygook. That's what being an atheist is all about, or it was until Social Justice Warriors turned up and invented Atheism+ and ruined it all.
>>2573055>>2573060You're right but your problem is you've let it get to you and you've stopped fighting.
So, you're a pussy, basically, and you got tired, basically. I did too, for a bit, I am attempting to get back involved. Tell me where is your voice going to be, when somebody else with your view speaks up and is put down by the idpol lot. Who will support them? Nobody, and then they will end up like you.
>>2573079the "idpol lot" are right (and have been right) on every issue that matters and ignorable or cheaply bought on every issue that doesn't, the only way people can conclude otherwise is to cite psyops that didn't even work and by framing establishment attempts at co-option of bottom-up pressure as establishment imposition of top-down pressure.
e.g. imagining that corporate pride means that companies are astroturfing LGBT rights, rather than doing the bare minimum to meet their employees growing demands for change, or imagining that "corbyn is sexist" headlines from then-and-future Guardian TERFs mean that feminist SJWs undermined Corbynism, when the reality is that actual Tumblr SJWs and people you'd unfairly tar with that brush were all overwhelmingly pro Corbyn.
moreso, in fact, than most sensible/traditional left figures, because they didn't have the brain disease that is sentimental attachment to the world's shittest labour party, making them invulnerable to appeals premised on the necessity of ensuring labour's survival. >>2573086Its not so much their at the bottom of it positions, which I agree with 80% of, drop puberty blockers for kids, women's sports and actual literal 100% open borders.
which means by the way: I am pro trans rights in every other way, and I am pro migrants rights in so far as we have sensible migration quotas and we actually enforce them, primarily by making the channel secure, so we don't have to resort to ice style raids.
I am a committed anti racist and I don't think those two things are incompatible.
What they don't do correctly however is 1) Organise: they are bad at bringing in a broad coalition and dealing with people who don't share 100% of their beliefs 2) on a personal level they are just DIFFICULT. Often rude, snobby, dismissive.
Now, the TERFs by the way, are even worse, concentrated group of complete freaks, completely obsessed and hysterical.
But, between them, that is most of the loud minorities of the left.
It doesn't help that the idpol lot are mostly students or under employed, meaning they have a lot of free time attend meetings and post online, and the terf lot are mostly on pensions or under employed, meaning they have a lot of time to attend meetings and post online
MOST PEOPLE do not have radical views one way or the other, and will have a very varied and not coherent (in the sense that the concentrated blocks have a coherent set of in group beliefs) set of beliefs.
The entire charade is a very off putting even if you are otherwise a die hard believer
>>2572355no, the reason is because the jobs are shit and pay shit, so people dont want to slave away for crumbs (i see plenty of new arrivals working for deliveroo, yet we have over a million citizens on jobseekers allowance; we're not lazy, we're entitled, but thats our right as the working class). this is why the idea of the fund would replace the idea of a living wage with a minimum salary (e.g. £20k, with the condition of a minimum standard of employment). so, if the capitalists only want to pay for part of it, the state can pay the other part, since its best for everyone.
>>2572386a separate bracket would have to exist for the disabled, otherwise you would have false claimants.
>>2572700what? i am saying that we need to pay workers benefits. are you illiterate?
>there arent enough jobsso its a myth that people still get employed, is it?
pure malarkey. this is why as i have also said that lowering wages (to increase employment) but raising salaries is possible by this worker subsidy, but no, youre a typical whinge who has no actual solutions to the problem.
>>2573094creating a separate bracket for disabled people would introduce the possibility of false claims, not resolve it. under the standard system the only possible fraud is to underreport your income. (which people do to dodge regular income tax anyway)
>>2573055>Do British leftists even remember the Preston model?Well yes we just stopped talking about it because it wasn't that good actually move to Preston if you don't believe me.
>>2573066You have to play the political game initially in the modern context, electoral politics needs to be played because of the terrible image the left has where even I wouldn't trust left wing politicians in power to make pragmatic choices over whatever the fuck first year uni students on Tiktok think is "Good fucking person".
Electoral politics should only be seen as a training operation in how to develop good PR, develop good networks, how to speak and act politically, have experience on policy development, how to deal with the general public etc. I do not think it is a path to Socialism. Where major parties have "Youth wings" as training grounds I think Electoral politics should be the training ground for Left wingers.
> but your program amounts to a synthesis of clement attlee* and rump blairite social views with homeopathic amounts of dated socialist verbiage.Again, my "program" in terms of electoral politics only exists to train leftists, in how real politics in the real world actually functions beyond just abstracted theory, tik tok and Hearts of Iron, rather than actually being a framework for a Socialist society. I've watched for years on campaigns i've been on, even the shittiest reactionary politicians happily dance around Leftist activists and potential left wing candidates in confrontations. The left genuinely has a serious competency crisis (as we are seeing with Your Party). Like him or not, Mamdani is absolutely a masterclass in how a politician should act in terms of PR. While Mamdani might not work on a national level, he is an extremely wiley politican with maxed out charisma stats. Mamdani should be the minimum level of an acceptable public facing left winger.
>>2573074"New Atheism" not as in the original new atheist movement, but the left needs to go back to being extremely critical of religion. The Islam bootlicking, the constant "ITS ZIONISM NOT JUDAISM", bullshit that always has the left on the defensive against religious nutbags who only ever join the left because they see the left as useful idiots they can use as a ladder to climb to positions to push their actual agenda.
The only form of "religion" Socialists should be pushing is civic religion. That you should be a good civic person and try to achieve being a New Soviet Man.
>>2573079>>2573101Why should I throw my time and effort at a lost cause? I will rejoin the left when the left actually has competent people who aren't BPD tier unstable spastics and try to constantly gaslight people with bad faith Idpol purity testing.
There have been roughly 5 times in my life I've watched moments where the left genuinely had shots of seizing the mainstream momentum, and i've watched the left not only flub it in the most predictable fashion, but then double down on why they flubbed it while tossing away what worked. I don't agree with Cutrone on much, but he is 100% correct in saying that even if the left isn't targeted by Cointelpro, the Left acts like they are following the most obnoxious blatant Cointelpro wrecking possible.
For a long time my position has been what made Cointelpro so effective is that it functions as cuckoo, all MI5/FBI have to do is lay that egg, then the left will nurse it, raise it and prioritize it over all the other actually real eggs so even if Cointelpro stopped in say 1990, that Cointelpro cuckoo hatchling is still the one being fed.
>>2573108It's not really just the preston model I care about, it's more the left stopped talking about how to restructure material politics in pragmatic ways, for example one of the things I think the left should be lobbying heavily on is reforming the House of Lords into a proportional senate, while pushing for a Federal England. Not that I think these are steps towards Socialism, but they are concrete, serious structuralist positions that actually can be argued in the mainstream, among chattering class media freaks, where leftists will get experience in how to push a political agenda through actual halls of power, media and politics.
A federal system and Proportional upper house isn't "Left/right" as well, it's entirely neutral pragmatism politics which means it's more likely to get a fair hearing from the media and political classes and give leftists a good spring board off to build profiles and experience.
>>2573112your conception of the problem is all wrong.
if you want Mamdani, we have him at home, his name's Polanski. if you want to train serious left wing cadres, you're thinking far too high level. as socdem flag used to always bang on about, you're going to have to start with practical orgs like trade unions, tenants unions, blah blah blah, until you've built enough of a springboard for an electoral or non-electoral party to build off. that inherently selects against useless chancers because you're demanding they do real work, and because it's easy to tell when they're succeeding or failing (whereas dismal fail-parties can continue to pat themselves on the back for spurious reasons (see: all our joke communist parties, alba party, ukip, etc).
electoral politics has only one real advantage: it imposes an empirical external success/failure standard. this isn't nothing, but it also encourages a lot of vices: for example, the chunk of your party's problems that came from trying to top-load the party with MPs out of political expediency.
there is a competency crisis, but it has nothing to do with first year uni students on tiktok. mamdani is, believe it or not, a "good fucking person" by tiktok standards. no, if anything the left's competency crisis is the result of treating the whole thing like a hobby - which is ultimately what we're doing now by arguing about it. it's the result of not thinking seriously about what practical problems they want to resolve. it is not a policy failure - even social democrats can fall into the trap of going "now that i've found exactly the right post keynesian solution to demand management, i'm better than everyone else." without bothering to go further and then ask:
how do you make that government policy? (tragically, the answer is of course to start at the bottom.)
p.s. you underestimate how unfair the press are and how insular the chattering classes are. Gordon Brown,
an actual former prime minister, has been pushing for a federal senate for years, to the extent it's a running joke in government circles. How much of a hearing does he get? Well, occasionally they let him put a column about it in the Guardian, or Scottish Labour pretend it's a plan when they realize "let England tell us what to do" isn't a good platform for an upcoming Holyrood election (difficult this time, because usually they can promise such things safe in the knowledge the Tories won't do them. But this time, Labour's in England too…), but basically the plan isn't happening. If they'll treat Gordon Brown like that, how do you think they'd treat Corbyn, or someone even further outside their circles than that - maybe someone who hasn't even
lived in London?
Mockery if it's likely to happen, total dead air if it isn't.
>>2573120>if you want Mamdani, we have him at home, his name's Polanski.Mamdani worked because New York, already a progressive shitlib city. Polanski has a harder job because Brits are naturally socially more a mixed bag that leans towards somewhat conservative in many areas. Another issue I have is I don't trust why the media is giving such positive coverage to Polanski and the Green Party. Genuinely believe that the media only ever truly boosts left wing positions as a trap that it plans to spring down the line. The Left could argue for a new children's hospital and the entire media would say "yeah but what about overpopulation?" so inherently distrustful of when media starts giving certain left aligned figures the softest of soft ball interviews and largely boosted coverage.
> if you want to train serious left wing cadres, you're thinking far too high level. as socdem flag used to always bang on about, you're going to have to start with practical orgs like trade unions, tenants unions, blah blah blah, until you've built enough of a springboard for an electoral or non-electoral party to build off. that inherently selects against useless chancers because you're demanding they do real work, and because it's easy to tell when they're succeeding or failing (whereas dismal fail-parties can continue to pat themselves on the back for spurious reasons (see: all our joke communist parties, alba party, ukip, etc). For me, this is already built into the fact that I think the left should look at how the CPC has a siv towards useless cadre, by forcing potential people who want to move up in the CPC by making them do organizational and social work in 3 different provinces minimum. But yes, I overlooked it in my expalanation.
>it imposes an empirical external success/failure standard. this isn't nothing, but it also encourages a lot of vices: for example, the chunk of your party's problems that came from trying to top-load the party with MPs out of political expediency. True, again something I agree with but didn't really truly explain.
>like a hobby - which is ultimately what we're doing now by arguing about itI mean truly, this is correct, but we are on leftypol, I do not really see this as a site of serious organization lol, just shittalking and throwing random ideas into the ether to create discussion because I'm bored.
>it's the result of not thinking seriously about what practical problems they want to resolve. This is the stuff I actually enjoy the most, but britpol isn't a policy wank thread. I did above try to create a discussion on welfare though because I'm interested in how people would develop a "scam proof" welfare system that punishes bad faith actors. I think the left needs to learn a lot of wonkery because as someone on stupidpol said, "A lesson to leftists should be if they do not get a hold of a situation and create a proper functional pragmatic policy, the right will". My fear is the Welfare system will get smashed the moment a hostile Government comes in and decides, "okay lets spend 20 million on PI's and catch a bunch of blatant cases and use that to create a narrative the entire system is broken and needs to be destroyed".
The left should acknowledge that yes, immigration, scamming welfare etc are problems and we have our own more effective ways of dealing with these problems.
>how do you make that government policy?Why I think again the left needs to play the electoral politics game, even though I think it's a dead end to Socialism. For me gathering experience and serious training through being thrown into the deep end of the pool is what is important.
>p.s. you underestimate how unfair the press are and how insular the chattering classes are. Gordon Brown, an actual former prime minister, has been pushing for a federal senate for years, to the extent it's a running joke in government circles. How much of a hearing does he get? Well, occasionally they let him put a column about it in the Guardian, or Scottish Labour pretend it's a plan when they realize "let England tell us what to do" isn't a good platform for an upcoming Holyrood election (difficult this time, because usually they can promise such things safe in the knowledge the Tories won't do them. But this time, Labour's in England too…), but basically the plan isn't happening. If they'll treat Gordon Brown like that, how do you think they'd treat Corbyn, or someone even further outside their circles than that - maybe someone who hasn't even lived in London?
Mockery if it's likely to happen, total dead air if it isn't.
Believe me, I grew up with people who are press gallery types today. I know how unfair they are. This is why in this regard, I chose largely a 'neutral' subject. I think that those pushing it, should not openly advocate themselves as left wing, that they are some neutral policy think tank of wonks. Again, for me, I view a lot of this stuff as purely "training", that the left gets experience in how to deal with politicians and media and policy so the left has experience to build a dual power Socialist movement outside of electoral politics that will get taken seriously by the general public.
This stuff might be actually a retarded and go nowhere idea, but Your Party is such a fucking joke, along with how the left flubbed Covid, Bernie, Corbyn, 2008, Occupy etc shows that the current left is fundamentally broken at the core level and needs a clean reset.
People argue about CPGB-ML and the WPB and the SJP and the CPGB-PCP, Socialist appeal etc but the reality is, all these ""parties"" are a joke and will never achieve anything. If they couldn't achieve anything in 2013 or under Corbyn era or in 2020, nor are they gaining any ground NOW, they are a lost cause and should not even be acknowledged. If the UK wants a functional left movement it needs truly a clean break from the past, and this includes all the 2010s Idpol and Occupy and Corbyn bullshit.
>>2573100by a separate bracket, i mean a diminished personal income.
>underreport your incomeapplication for the worker's benefit can put you in a special database where your income is monitored.
>>2573088>on a personal level they are just DIFFICULT. Often rude, snobby, dismissive. The amount of time I heard "Sportsball" fuck my life.
>>2573168Sportsfags are more obnoxious TBH.
>>2573172For me, Football is one of the most shitty, boring major sports. It incentivises time wasting and diving and general all round cheating. Entire matches are often just players kicking the ball back and forth once they've scored 1 goal to run down the clock.
Football but good is Ice Hockey.
That said, I know most Brit proles basically worship the champions league and UEFA so I don't go out of my way to antagonise them or look down on them like swaths of of smug pricks I've encountered in nerd circles and leftist groups often do.
>>2572355Most people on US will be in in-work benefits, no?
>>2572603>It's the same few cherry picked famous verses and classic stories and parables to match whatever moral lesson the priest wants to share, explained to you like you're intellectually disabled, interspersed with whatever hymns the priest likes.<But all that part is really just for show. It's all really about the coffee mornings and biscuits afterwardsyea it sounds sooo sick. Wish i could have had the patience to become a priest in C of E. :(
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