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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

You must answer the question to make a new thread. See the last field.
The body was too short or empty.

first for utter dismal defeatism

I was at the conference today AMA.

>>2578089
Did you feel any iota of optimism.

>>2578091
Right at the very beginning. They had a speech from a Liverpool councillor, Lucy Williams, opened the conference. She spoke quite strongly and powerfully about the ability to organise both from the "political pulpit" and from the grassroots. Rooted anti-austerity politics and feminism into a real cohesive vision for socialism. Then I saw them trying to kick out SUTR during the Corbyn speech lmao.

>>2578092
Oh god I only watched the beginning of the stream. This happened during the conference in the conference room?

>>2578095
No. So the main hall (where the speeches were had) has an ante room about the 2/3rds of its size with like drinks, food, and a few stalls (only like a dozen btw, which is kinda insane you can easily get that for a small city-level event). The SUTR stall was in the ante-room. There were like 6-7 security around this one woman it was kinda mental. Funny thing is that new people took her place like 15 minutes later from SUTR.

>>2578110
Sounds like a nightmare.

>>2578112
Honestly far from the worst thing today.

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Got to love how so many people in these threads were in love with this student politics wrecker. Green and Pleasant still trying to glaze her.
UK left is a fucking joke, like I said, there needs to be a complete and total clean sweep and rebuilding of the left from the bottom up with completely new people with a totally new ECONOMIC/CLASS based project.
I mean the fact Working Class representation/Socialism was up for a fucking vote was a goddamn joke to begin with.
But anyway, hahahaha here for the told you all so. Proven right once again.

They have totally fucked it up. It is over.
It will be another decade before we get another attempt at a left wing party now, thanks to these ego obsessed, power hungry, clique forming freaks.

>>2578127
Go on. I might as well find out before I suffer to watch it.

>>2578089
Whats the fuck are the SWPies up to?

Your Party was doomed from its internal contradictions. Social-fascism will never work.

>>2578138
demsoc isn't social fascism thoughbeit, allende was no social fascist.
But like the DSA Your Party is filled with like 150 different flavors of "socialist" all competing for the most smallest of program changes. Shits fucked.

>>2578142
> filled with like 150 different flavors of "socialist"
That would be better than the seeming reality of a few factions organised around chronic failparties.

So now what?

>>2578135
They had planned an attempt to force an election of an interim executive committee from the flaw. Utterly batshit stuff, no idea why they created it. Anyways that is what got them purged, which people (correctly) saw as a general attack on Dual Membership since they went after people like James Giles (not SWP at all, just a Sultana supporter).

>>2578145
Wait for tomorrow to progress. If it is as bad or worse then start learning chinese.

>>2578145
Start learning how the CPC functions and realise that any functional left should be following this model rather than whatever shitlib anarkiddie garbage the Western left always comes up with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGK25bSFF0c

>>2578133
"Working Class is an Ableist term" was unironically said. The general vibes of the Antechamber were horrific. A lady from Venezuela said we should follow Maduro's electoral guidelines (if the press didn't get hold of that it would be an insane mercy). There was a bit where the SWP were defending Dual Membership and then got called rapists. Oh and the aforementioned ban of James Giles who is like legitimately good.

>>2578149
>>2578150
But I'm shit at Chinese and have only read like 3 chapters of the first edition of The Governance of China…

>>2578151
>"Working Class is an Ableist term"
I hate the post-left.
>Maduro's electoral guidelines
Based? I think?
> There was a bit where the SWP were defending Dual Membership
How is that an issue? Presumably the SWP will tell their members to vote Your Party anyway. Or maybe not after this fiasco.

>>2578145
seriously? let the hegelian geist devour you, with death comes rebirth 🤭

>>2578142
Corbyn and all the labour / gaza independent grandees are social-fascists (even if they are critical of imperialism). As for the "demsoc" side, maybe they are genuine socialists but they are all utopians or trots. They can't organise anything due to their own structure holding them back, they are idealists who have no drive or discipline. If you want to have a competent movement, you have to embrace Marxism-Leninism Mao Zedong Thought. Otherwise you won't have a disciplined revolutionary organisation, and it will collapse due to sex scandals or transphobia. If the English want to do socialism they have to stop doing this stupid revisionist / trotskyist / demsoc shit. Like they can do it they are just ideologically destroyed.

>>2578155
>How is that an issue? Presumably the SWP will tell their members to vote Your Party anyway. Or maybe not after this fiasco.
It was more the heckling and counter heckling and them having the weirdest fights imaginable. I also forget the lady that had a poem like speech against dual membership that honestly could have been satire I was so confused i cannot even describe what it was like.

>>2578162
The thing is right I think the demsoc movement is the new "thing" for the western left that isn't just reformism. It's the best movement we currently have under the circumstances. A genuine revolution can be brought about from these movements. But only if they keep the revolutionary objectives. Its the sort of vague movement within movements shit Lenin was immersed in and changed from within.

>>2578151
Honestly I'm really sympathetic with these hopeful young people, I just really hope they realise democratic centralism + criticism/selfcriticism model + mass line is the only way to have a functioning party, rather than just giving up.

Do you remember when the Russian Social Democrats came to London for their conference and Trotsky got up on stage and said "maybe we shouldn't call ourselves socialist"

>>2578170
The young far left isn't hopeful, anon. The young far left is simultaneously growing and losing hope.

Everyone should just drop this Soc Dem farce and join the International Communist Party already.

Every trot can fuck off to hell

I've never heard of the SWP until today but that's probably because I'm younger than 30.

>>2578319
Have you ever been to a protest or rally of any kind? If you have, you have undoubtedly run into them or one of their front groups.

>>2578145
We see what happens tomorrow. The left groups organising against Corbyn/Murphy clique have agreed to coordinate tomorrow and agitate for bringing forward the disqualified workers wage for MPs motion and put as much pressure as possible on the chair. The conference was pretty restless under the undemocratic standing orders forced on them so might see some more uproar from the floor. Zarah will also be speaking and hopefully will continue to call out the leadership for the expulsions.

On the other hand the people chairing tomorrow will be more hardline Corbyn-loyalists who will be harsher and crackdown on left-wing speakers more. Still they can't shut down the livestream and cut the mic all day long.

>>2578335
>Zarah represents the left wing of the party
What the fuck is going on. This looks unfixable.

>>2578338
Zarah represents herself, but she's been frozen out by the Corbyn/Murphy clique and there's no future for her, so at least for now she's started quoting Lenin, appealing to all the left groups intervening in the party and calling for a party of the whole left with the members in charge. How much she's genuine in her views isn't really relevant, but she's using her platform to protest the dictatorial attitude of the leadership and agitate for socialist motions.

>>2578319
I think in some places the Socialist Party or other trots are more dominant, they are the same thing though, they are the same strain of trotskyism and split from the same party. RCP is a different strain for example. But the SWP is the biggest and most cockroach-like.

>>2578361
Bzzzt. Wrongo. RCP and SPEW are the same strain of Ted Grant (Labour entryism) and originate from Militant, with the RCP being the ones who kept doing entryism after Militant got purged while SPEW did an open turn, RCP did the same post-Corbyn rebranding to RCP from Socialist Appeal, so you'd think they're the same now but they've diverged over 30 years and SPEW are now just trade unionists mostly through TUSC, while RCP are student-recruiters who now latch onto whatever the latest thing that might get them a headline is.

SWP are a separate tendency originating with Tony Cliff (state capitalism guy) and are historically the 'biggest' group on the left, at least since the old CPGB liquidated, largely off of anti-fascist agitation on a popular front basis, ie. their fronts like Stand up to Racism.

>>2578128
I see you ignored my point that whether the party is pro-trans or not was also submitted for a vote. Trademark behaviour.

workers party gb it is then

A GB News presenter, Lucy White, has stated on her Xitter that no person of Pakistani heritage should be allowed in the UK House of Commons.
Gbeebies being openly racist now and refusing to apologise for it.

>>2578150
As insane as suggesting we simply import China's industrial policy without regard for different conditions.

File: 1764464103930.jpg (1.91 MB, 1971x1477, white-tailed-deer-1.jpg)

Is this another left movement that died on the hill of The Topic That Can't Be Named, or was it lots of things?

>>2578375
Thanks for the lore explanation, tbh I always found it kind of hard to even differentiate the Socialist Party from the SWP, it took me years to find out they were different orgs, so I assumed they were closely related.

>>2578392
For once it wasn't idpol or anything that fucked it up. It was intense leadership division. There were some absolutely embarrassing speeches made about how the word socialism could "upset" people.

I love how anons instantly try to place the blame on that thing, despite even being unwilling to name it.
you're just a bunch of social hitlerites gagging for an opportunity to blame it all on that one thing, to make it a scapegoat so you feel like you're at last free to kick, spit and laugh at those people whom that thing relates too.
please go 5 minutes of your life without thinkng about that thing for marx's sake.

>>2578151
> (if the press didn't get hold of that it would be an insane mercy)
one of the streamers interviewed and broadcast her.
>>2578319
>I've never heard of the SWP until today
lucky fucker.

>>2578404
No we're not. You just think we are.

>>2578394
Lol, at the Your Party 'regional assembly' I went to, a very confused old woman was sold both 'The Socialist' and 'The Socialist Worker' and was asking me what the difference between them was, bless her

>>2578392
>>2578395
Yeah, the issues are almost entirely of power and control, to a lesser extent its a question of socialist vs soft-lefty hippy pacifist politics.
The faultlines are Corbyn and a small group of advisors around him desperately trying to keep control of what was advertised as a democratic process and denying members the ability to define the structures and direction of the party, trying to enforce a very limited set of options available that don't line up with what's been popular at assemblies and among the members in general.
The question will ultimately be how many people are too checked out and apathetic to care about the details of the party democracy and just want Saint Jeremy to rerun 2015-2019 Labour over again.

Corbyn lost the elections shortly after I became old enough to vote.
Now a decade on all this is happening to the so-called left, meanwhile Farage leads the polls.
I have become thoroughly convinced socialism is impossible on this island. My fellow "countrymen" are beyond help or reason.
My best bet is to move abroad and hope that regime change in Britain is initiated by a foreign Communist force at some long distant date.

>>2578419
Grow up.

>>2578357
>Zarah represents herself, but she's been frozen out by the Corbyn/Murphy clique

What for?

Sorry I'm ignorant, but I haven't been following this at all since YP started, and I'm unfamiliar with the players aside from Corbyn.

>>2578427
Stop being utopian.

>>2578432
>What for?
Afaik when the party was just in the embryonic stage of Corbyn, his close circle of advisors (most notably his former chief of staff Karie Murphy, wife of Len Mccluskey, and speechwriter James Schneider, whose wife is Starmer's publicist lol) the independent pro-palestine MPs and other left figures like Andrew Feinstein and Salma Yaqoob, there were a lot of high level discussions about what kind of party it should be or even if it should be a party. Originally the discussions were mostly about whether it should be loose community independents alliance type deal or a more centralised party which eventually seemed to win out, despite Corbyn favouring the latter. When Zarah was invited in as she was preparing to ditch Labour, the question turned to leadership arrangements and there was apparently a zoom meeting vote for whether there should be a single leader or co-leaders with Corbyn apparently offering Zarah that he'd be leader for a year or two then hand over to her, while others like Andrew Feinstein apparently favourer co-leadership and called for a vote which was won by the co-leader idea. Corbyn abstained and apparently asked others to abstain in this vote and was privately upset it took place. Following this the original organiser group was purged of everyone who voted for co-leadership and they formed their own group, this was the point where presumably to preclude a split Zarah went public with the party announcement, claiming she and Corbyn would be co-leaders. Corbyn was mad which is why he refused to say anything about it for a few days but ultimately gave in and made up with her publicly.
The tensions were still there though and the two seperate organising groups continued to work basically independently, each getting their own database of signup contacts and donations.

At this point the more political stuff starts popping up with Zarah representing the younger and more left-wing section, being both more militant on palestine, social progressivism and socialism, while the Corbyn wing more concilliatory, seen as more pandering to the landlord/small business owner independent MPs and their social conservative and anti-socialist views. Corbyn is pretty weak and dithering by all accounts, hates confrontations and just seethes privately when things don't go his way, so the conflict was mostly articulated between Zarah and the most outspokenly reationary independent MP Adnan Hussain trading potshots on social media and promising two different visions of the party. With the already existing split in the organising group, Zarah is increasingly frozen out of meetings and decision making, hard to say what the content of conversations at this time was between them.

At some point Zarah starts privately reaching out to groups on the left intimating that the as of yet unannounced founding process for the new party will not be democratic and they will not have an opportunity to get their views across so they should start agitating for what the party should look like, how the conference should be organised, etc.

This culminates in Zarah making her most daring move of trying to secure data and money for her and Feinstein's faction by launching the party membership portal herself without consulting Corbyn and gain leverage over the Corbyn's faction. This is shut down but not before making the news and getting some 10k+ signups making up a substantial sum of member fees.
Zarah clearly hoped Corbyn would accept the fait accompli again but this time he didn't, though it has been claimed the response was actually put out by Karie Murphy without Corbyn's approval as he'd checked out, and Zarah was almost expelled and legal proceedings were launched. After some intense negotiation and severe fallout things were somewhat smoothed over again, Corbyn's faction launched their own hastily put together membership portal and announced how the process running up to conference would look. Zarah stayed in but the feinstein group effectively resigned any role and handed things to her. She seems to have been passing the money over to Corbyn bit by bit so as to remain needed but they were barely on speaking terms at this point.

With the conference announced the left started organising around it and how they could influence the constitution of the party, Zarah started courting them and appearing at various meetings advocating more left-wing positions, quoting Marx and Lenin, and talking about 'maximum member democracy'.

The left-wing groups started getting momentum at all the various meetings and assemblies, probably helped by both the drama and the new Green leader drawing most prospective members away, the 800k who signed up onto the newsletter at the party announcement ended up being barely 50k on the second member portal.

The Corbyn/Murphy clique have been increasingly paranoid and clearly used the feedback from the assemblies around the country to basically identify which topics they need to lock down so conference attendees don't get to have a say on them, the most controversial has ended up being the ban on dual membership which was consistently an unpopular proposal in the proposed constitution, but has been limited to a choice between a blanket ban and a whitelist of permitted orgs which might as well be the same thing, this together with the final version of the proposals changing the options for leadership from 'single leader vs co-leaders' to 'single leader vs collective leadership' has also pushed Sultana further left as her hopes of being leader are effectively dashed anyway, she could try running against Corbyn but likely lose and is no longer going to be the appointed successor, or rally the far left who want to depose the conservative corbyn/murphy clique to her side by endorsing their demands like open factions and collective leadership, and just be the 'parliametary spokesperson' non-leader leader.

tl;dr: she might have sincere marxist views and is revealing her powerlevel or is just burning things to the ground because she gambled on Corbyn being a pushover one too many times in a personal powergrab

>>2578479
Thanks anon

>le read theory!
>train with weapons to become a hardcore revolutionary fighter!

A lot of the problems the left faces are caused by plebs thinking this applies to them. All of this means absolutely nothing if you personally aren't in a position power. And to get into a position of power, especially on the left, you need to be university educated and rich.


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