🗽 UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
<Epstein's Ghost EditionThread for hellish discussion of the Dying Burger Reich: Things are going to continue to happen in the stupidest ways possible that no one really takes seriously, where every single person compulsively reacts with either cynical grifting or useless panic and appealing to a political system of liberal democracy that is entirely dead and irrelevant. things will continue to get gradually worse, more people will lose their jobs and homes, the most destitute and marginalized will be oppressed by state-backed domestic terrorism, but the decay will simply continue and everyone who isn't actively being imprisoned and forced into slavery or outright exterminated will simply ignore it and maintain a cognitive dissonance of believing a civil war is happening while living their lives in a mostly normal fashion. The death of the United States will be slow, painful, and insufferably annoying and stupid. 🏈 💵
Death to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the father of fascism, the enabler of ethnostates, the treatlerite tyrant, the protector of pedophiles, the exporter of ecocide, the captain of capitalism, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the invader of islands, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™ 🌭 🍔
🛠️ Strike Tracker ⚒️https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/🇺🇸 Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.mdhttps://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list📺 Glowie News 📺(sponsored by the Burger Eagle Freedom Institute (formerly USAID))
• CNN:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/cnn-news-usa.html• MSNBC:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/msnbc.html• FOX:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/fox-news-channel.html• Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/live/us🏚️ Local News 🏚️https://www.50states.com/ce/✊Live Protest Streams✊https://woke.net/🏝️ Epstein's Client List🏝️https://epsteinsblackbook.com/🇮🇱 Track Zionazis (apparently ShareBlue backed, gross)🇮🇱https://www.trackaipac.com/📖Read, Burgga, Read! 📖https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXUFLW8t2sntNn5jQO8vF7ai9x0fna3PVPrevious Thread:
>>2557702Remember to filter mass tor baiters, feds, and trollsNot reporting is bourgeoisViolators will be launched from trebuchet 571 posts and 170 image replies omitted.>>2559952the thing with ai is that the people on top of the pyramid know it won't make a profit. the only reason this shit is a thing is so that novidya can sell more graphics airfryers and chips
>>2559893WTFWTF THIS IS LITERALLY NAZI GERMANY AGAIN WESTBROS WE MUST DO SOMETHING!!!!
>>2559967idk he's some bug that eats dust or something
>>2559869>reformism is "realistic" because it proposes gradual change, and revolution is "unrealistic"I'm really fucking tired of you dumb ESLs always conflating revolution and insurrection. Marx himself advocated through REVOLUTION through the Democratic process.
Learn what words mean. Reforms can be revolutionary. A revolution can be entirely done through the legal mechanisms off democracy as Marx advocated for.
It's embarrassing how little grasp you children have of the English language and the writings of Marx.
>>2559869Also I love how LARPers who never even shot a gun in your life always trip on anyone who says your plan, or in your case, your complete and utter lack of a plan or even the vaguest summary of what you are supposedly advocating for.
>Uhhh you reformists are tricking everyone!<It's much simpler if we just all met up in DC and overthrow the government tomorrowReally? Why didn't I think of that? I can't believe I've been tricking you all into not doing that when we could've be living under communism if only pesky "reformists" weren't discussing doing non LARP stuff to improve the conditions for workers.
How do you people take yourselves seriously. Even the Qtards have more credibility than yourselves.
>>2559969Yeah I heard about that, and also that he shit his pants love on recording. Also I'm gay
>>2559975>>2559972One of the few non retards to post here. Thank you sir
>>2559970I wonder how much it costs to bribe Trump
>>2559972I'm not sure where Marx ever says that a revolution can be entirely democratic
>>2559921Being a pedophile is way more than 9% of the MAGA agenda.
>>2559972>A revolution can be entirely done through the legal mechanismsmarx may have said the beginning phases of the revolution could be fought on the front lines of democracy but not that it could be entirely accomplished through it
>>2559989Many times. I've posted them many times but I haven't made a document yet of all the quotes compiled. I need to do that so every time we have this repetitive conversation day after day, year after year.
I've had this conversation so many times I already know where you're going to go after I prove my claim.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/09/08.htm>Uhhhm actually Marx is was wrong about a lot of stuff, real communism changes with the times and develops. Lenin proved that Marx was wrong(but of course, Lenin is the end-point of communist theory because Russian Revolution and shit)<These same people are the ones who will be first to call you a "revisionist."
>You know that the institutions, mores, and traditions of various countries must be taken into consideration, and we do not deny that there are countries – such as America, England, and if I were more familiar with your institutions, I would perhaps also add Holland – where the workers can attain their goal by peaceful means. This being the case, we must also recognize the fact that in most countries on the Continent the lever of our revolution must be force; it is force to which we must some day appeal in order to erect the rule of labor.I can keep going or maybe you could admit the words in front of your eyes mean exactly what I said Marx's position was.
>>2559972>Learn what words mean. Reforms can be revolutionary. A revolution can be entirely done through the legal mechanisms off democracy as Marx advocated for.I think we're still at the stage of the conversation where you will deny this is Marx's lifelong position until I give have a dozen corroborating texts.
>>2559997>marx may have said the beginning phases of the revolution could be fought on the front lines of democracy but not that it could be entirely accomplished through itHe did tho. His plan was simple. Workers take power through elections through democracy, then start implementing the communist revolution plan through the control of the government. And the fact that you guys know this, means you have basically
0 understanding of what Marx said.
>>2560001The way I see it is that armed struggle is generally used only after all legal recourse has been exhausted and when the conditions for a vanguard are achieved. Lenin and Mao took control during and after major wars and defended it using the force of a newly formed state. If it can be done legally in the modern day then it should be.
>>2559998> the lever of our revolution must be force; it is force to which we must some day appeal in order to erect the rule of labor.so yeah, democracy is not going to be the whole of it. Some level of force is going to be necessary.
>>2560003the question today is how long will it be. in america the fascist bourgeois state is rapidly criminalizing open dissent and organizing. The opposition party has capitulated entirely to the whims of the more reactionary and militarist clique. We will see where things go with the current crop of entryists, but if history is any indication it might not last long.
>>2559998>such as America, England, and if I were more familiar with your institutions, I would perhaps also add Holland – where the workers can attain their goal by peaceful means. This being the case, we must also recognize the fact that in most countries on the Continent the lever of our revolution must be force; it is force to which we must some day appeal in order to erect the rule of labor.And why was he advocating for violent insurrection in some cases, but not in the case of America and England? Because the key point of his plan was universal suffrage for the workers, which would allow them to take control of government, a mechanism that didn't exist in the countries in Europe.
>>2560004>so yeah, democracy is not going to be the whole of it. Some level of force is going to be necessary.Can you read? He is talking about two different cases. His writing no longer applies to continental Europe either, because they all have universal suffrage now.
It's really fucking simple, if you have enough guys, to stage this violent overthrow, you have enough guys to win an election.
>>2560003> If it can be done legally in the modern day then it should be.It's the only way it can be done in the modern day. America bears no resemblance to Tsarist Russia or Imperial China of the early 1900s and never will.
>>2559627Why is there discontent with Sheinbaum?
>>2559761Truly the Luthen Rael of our time
hi
>>2560001Seems to me like he acknowledged it was theoretically possible in some specific contexts but was still skeptical and considered violent revolution to be the most probable and historically necessary outcome for the most advanced capitalist countries
So if we want a good answer to this question let us analyze the current conditions specific to America
I'm a firm believer in the idea of a dual state in this country, where one (weaker) national state is the elected representatives through the democratic process, and the other being a (stronger) internal civil service/intelligence state that does the actual day-to-day management of the global empire and does the actual collaboration with the international bourgeois. I think the two states are very insulated from each other.
Our plan should be simple, harness the populist socialist wave through the democratic process and seize the weaker state for ourselves and use it in conjunction with violence to smash the stronger state. This institution could be the dual power structure relationship Lenin described
This solves the problem of the international bourgeoise working together to crush revolutionary sentiment in America. The international bourgeoise has a harder time attacking the revolution here if it is wielding democratic legitimacy through the weaker state. It isolates the fight to just our national bourgeoise
Maybe if our country was smaller and weaker we could use the democratic process to get everything we wanted but it would be foolish to assume a dying empire would just roll over like that
>>2560017>Seems to me like he acknowledged it was theoretically possible in some specific contexts but was still skeptical and considered violent revolution to be the most probable and historically necessary outcome for the most advanced capitalist countriesNope. That's your spin on it. I guess I got to go through all the quotations. I already explained it, that he was firmly an advocate of peaceful revolution through democracy. This was something that only existed in America and England in his time, so that is why he made a distinction. His view would be completely different than yours I'm sure in the year 2025. LMAO.
>Marx would've advocated LARPing about shootouts with the greatest surveillance state the world has ever knownBut none of you are serious. It's really an emotional thing for you. It's why you're never willing to discuss what the fuck you're advocating for beyond, like "it will be like the Bolsheviks, or Viet Kong like in that other country a long time ago!" Like you're not even willing to visualize what exactly you're saying.
>>2559998>Finally, the congress of The Hague has moved the headquarters of the General Council to New York. Many, even among our friends, seem to have wondered at such a decision. Do they then forget that America will be the workers' continent par excellence, that half a million men – workers – emigrate there yearly, and that on such soil, where the worker dominates, the International is bound to strike strong roots?based marx
>>2560022I don't think you have a grasp of Marx at all
>>2560017>Maybe if our country was smaller and weaker we could use the democratic process to get everything we wanted but it would be foolish to assume a dying empire would just roll over like thatThat's what every fantasy about beating the government in a shootout presupposes. You'll be fighting the military and then, they'll just somehow like lose or something? Even though they have the power to exterminate all life on Earth? Because like the Bolsheviks defeated the Tsar, so if you just believe hard enough.
>>2560024>I don't think you have a grasp of Marx at allno u
>>2560025what are you talking about? If conflict between imperialist states is inevitable then why aren't you preparing for that future? America won't have a strong and stable state forever lolol
>>2559864>breakdown in communicationThe first step in maintaining contrived narratives. Also a form of entrapment. I saw some leftists and centrists arguing about messaging and why they lost the last ge but I don't think they figured this out. When they're backed into a corner they play the reactionary to the right. If the left could stay on message they wouldn't have to worry about plugging the dyke that's flooding the zone. They shouldn't form policy based on reactionary propaganda from the right.
>>2560027>what are you talking about? If conflict between imperialist states is inevitable then why aren't you preparing for that future? Where did I say that.
>America won't have a strong and stable state forever lololExactly. Lol your entire "plan" hinges on America spontaneously combusting.
>My plan is my opponent will just die of their own accord and then I will be ion charge. The key is to just wait hard enough.Like can you people hear yourselves?
>>2560029individuals don't create revolutionary conditions, they are subject to the ebbs and flows of history and america is ebbing. it would be criminal not to be prepared to take advantage of those conditions
>>2560030>individuals don't create revolutionary conditions, they are subject to the ebbs and flows of history and america is ebbing. it would be criminal not to be prepared to take advantage of those conditionsOk, so how do you plan to?
>>2560032I agree in general with your post. I'm not against violence in principle. I just don't see that there are many profitable avenues of violence, and surely you won't ever win fighting the military. That said, assassinations are very powerful I think. If some leftist group wanted to take the violent route, I think that would be the most advantageous by far.
>>2560017>use it in conjunction with violence to smash the stronger state. So what exactly are you talking about?
no new thread?
>>2560034>surely you won't ever win fighting the military.Not in it's current state, sure. tho it doesn't have to be military, imagine all the private armies Porky could raise and pay for when the state is destabilized
>>2560028Also, the panel video is titled 'why people don't like dems.' Nobody said the simplest answer: that they nag instead of leading, and the brainrot from fox demagoguery where the worst example is always held to be the norm on "the left". Maybe the panelists really don't care except about their own bread and butter. It's possible so who knows?
>>2560036>Not in it's current state, sure. tho it doesn't have to be military,Not in any state that will ever occur.
> imagine all the private armies Porky could raise and pay for when the state is destabilizedExactly. In your fantasy scenario you'll be fighting the government, the porky mercenaries, the right wing militias. But somehow how the American Left will win this shootout.
If you actually think the imperial core will willingly vote their treats away then you are beyond delusional to the point you’re as complicit as the most indoctrinated SS agent
>>2560038as opposed to what, voting? don't tell me ur a lib
>>2559761I don't think he gave up willingly, but repubs are now trapped playing defense as the enablers of the enablers unless they opt for transparency. The hacked emails aren't as damning as what's left of his curriculum vitae so more defectors are to be expected.
>>2559925There’s gonna be massive backlash against republicans. Massie and MGT jumping ship shows they see the writing on the wall. This is going to end in some republicans being hung and rightfully so. They are the most craven of criminals and have been for decades. In a just society anyone that called themselves a Zionist would be removed from office and put on trial.
Unfortunately I’m afraid they’ll throw trump and possibly bill Clinton to the angry mob, give us gruesome Gavin in 2028 and it’ll be a repeat of Obama. It’s really important that we make sure that it is know the democrats and republicans are the same. It’s more obvious than ever that the dems are a fake opposition party complicit in the massive theft, fraud, bribery, treason, and child trafficking the republicans have been doing for decades.
Genuine Question: Why do people (correctly) call out the fact that the US is irredeemable and founded on genocide of indigenous people and enslavement of Black people, but then explicitly or implicitly claim that said Black and Native people are exploiters of the third world, in order to imply that revolution is impossible in the US *even among black and native people*. In addition, why do the people opposing the claims of revolution being impossible in the US bring up the conditions of all working-class people in the US in general, instead of specifically that of Black and Native people. Idk, it seems like there used to be a coherent position on the left that revolution among *white* people specifically in the US was impossible, but that revolution among colonized people in the US was possible and necessary, but now it’s been subsumed into both of the positions I’m talking about. Also, it seems like a lot of people take the government propaganda that every single Native American died and there are none left today at face value in order to argue that *all* people in the US are unrevolutionary settlers, what’s up with that? Sorry, I know I’m being really reductive, this has just been bothering me for a really long time and I want some answers.
Unique IPs: 24